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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


The Nova mystery

Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on Nov 21, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Ivan Nova obviously has ability, but as we saw in the second half, he misplaced it somewhere.  He went 2-5 with a 7.05 ERA after the All-Star break, and finished 12-8 with a 5.02 ERA and a .288 opponents batting average. Plus, the Yankees didn’t let him near the mound in the postseason.

I asked Brian Cashman during Tuesday night’s conference call about his concern level about him going forward.

The GM didn’t sound too worried.

“I feel really good about Nova,” Cashman said. “He’s a good young arm. His maiden voyage a year ago was terrific, and he finished strong. He won one of our two playoff wins the previous year. And then this year, sophomore growing pains or whatever you want to call it. But at the same time, his strikeout total soared and his walk total reduced. So it was an interesting year for him.

“The stuff is there. He’s a good, young, under-control, not-even-arbitration-eligible starter with a boatload of experience, both positive and negative. I, without a doubt, consider Nova a rotation starter in the majors. It’s just, where’s he going to slot himself as we go into 2013? At the back end or toward the middle of the rotation.

“So that’s how I look at Nova. The equipment is there. His determination is there. Like anything, you get on the right side of the mountain, when you’ve got the positive things rolling, with his ability, you can take off. If you get on the wrong side of the mountain, you have to struggle through it and fight through it. That’s how he ended up in the end, where he was on the wrong side of the mountain, probably of confidence. But that’s nothing I worry about with him. He’s a very confident guy.”

This is the link to my story today for The Journal News and LoHud.com about the positive move of re-signing Hiroki Kuroda and a quick summary of Tuesday’s happenings. But I didn’t have room for Cashman’s take on the current rotation, minus Andy Pettitte, at least for the moment:

“On paper, we do have five starters. If you go through it, you’ve got CC, Kuroda, Hughes, Nova, Phelps, but we would certainly like to add to that and lengthen it and deepen it and strengthen it.”

Your take?

 

Comments

comments

 

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194 Responses to “The Nova mystery”

  1. PacoDooley November 21st, 2012 at 10:59 am

    My take? Why wouldn’t Cashman say this? His player thrives on confidence and his trade value is buoyed by him appearing like the guy we saw two years ago, so what else would he say?

    Personally, I think Nova is likely to pan out as a middling starter, unless he can be a more deceptive pitcher. He has raw stuff but cannot fool hitters at critical times.

  2. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:00 am

    blake says:
    November 21, 2012 at 10:57 am
    Would it be mean to tell Cody Ross you were signing him to play RF …..then trade for Choo and platoon them?

  3. JobaTipsHisCap November 21st, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Kuroda!
    good news.

  4. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:01 am

    I feel very confident in Cashman’s evaluation on young pitchers :|

  5. LordD99 November 21st, 2012 at 11:02 am

    The Yankees have five starters, but not the five they’ll be going to battle with in 2013. I like Phelps, but specifically in the role he was in 2012, which is 6th starter/swing man, an important man the way today’s rosters are constructed.

  6. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:03 am

    Nova needs to learn to either keep the ball down more consistently or to add some deception to his delivery…..because when he’s up in the zone he gets absolutely hammered……I like that he developed a true swing and miss pitch with the slider….now he needs to get back to pounding the bottom of the zone

  7. jacksquat November 21st, 2012 at 11:07 am

    He just needs more command, too many meatballs.

  8. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Ross has a career .928 OPS vs LHP
    Choo has a career . 914 OPS vs RHP

    Ross could DH vs LHP too….he’d play a lot…..he’d probably have to have a multi year deal though…..

  9. Chip November 21st, 2012 at 11:14 am

    blake says:
    November 21, 2012 at 10:57 am
    Would it be mean to tell Cody Ross you were signing him to play RF …..then trade for Choo and platoon them?
    —————-

    No meaner than it was to sign Freddy Garcia, tell him he was a starter and then sign Kuroda, Andy and trade for Pineda and put Garcia in long relief.

  10. Chip November 21st, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Bruceb mentioned Barajas in the last thread – is it wrong that I’m totally convinced he will be the Yankees’ opening day catcher? Martin’s going to sign in Texas, Napoli will wind up with Boston and the Yankees will end up with Barajas because he’s willing to take a 1 year deal.

  11. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:17 am

    Choo and Ross would be a pretty beastly platoon…but you’d have to trade for Choo and you’d have to convince Ross to do a one year deal and also convince him that he’d get to play enough

  12. Duh Innings II November 21st, 2012 at 11:19 am

    The positives:

    - Young – he turns only 26 on January 12.
    - Cheap – he made only $527K in 2012.
    - Arbitration-eligible after 2013.
    - Under control through 2016.
    - Averaged over six innings per start in 2012 like he did in 2011 (170.1 IP / 28 GS = 6.08 IP.)
    - Struck out 153 batters in 170 1/3 IP in 2012 up from only 98 SO in 2011.
    - Walked one less batter in 5 1/3 more IP than he did in 2011 so his control was better.
    - Cut down on his wild pitches: 6 in ’12 down from 11 in ’11.
    - He challenged hitters more and it paid off to the tune of 55 more strikeouts in only 5 1/3 more IP than ’11. Of course he gave up 31 more hits in 5 1/3 more IP than ’11 to do to this, but that’s part of the growth and evolution of a pitcher. When your strikeouts go up, your hits allowed go up more often than not.

    The negatives:

    - 5.02 ERA in 2012 up from 3.70 in ERA – ‘gotta lower that to say 4.31 (midway between those ERAs) which ain’t great but it’s #4 starter serviceable.

    - Gave up over twice as many HR in 2012 as he did in 2011 (28 in ’12 to 13 in ’11) – ‘gotta cut that down, too. I’d be happy with 18 (10 less than ’12.)

    - Hit a few more batters (10 up from 6 in ’11.)

    I think Nova will have a 2013 closer to his 2011 than his 2012. He’s a solid #4 with the potential to be a #3 who might have an ace or #2 season or two in him. I think the positives far outweight he negatives and despite his step back 2012, I’d take what he gave the Yanks for $527K any day of the week and you’d be hard-pressed to find a scrapheap / reclamation project starting pitcher who’d give you that or better for that price or 1.5-3X that price. I mean it’s possible to find a guy like that but 2011 Bartolo Colons and Freddy Garcias are rare finds.

  13. tucker November 21st, 2012 at 11:19 am

    If Cashman signs Pettitte, I would dangle Hughes. He has one year left and he may price himself beyond 189. If Guthrie got 25 million for three years, Hughes will get more than that. Not sure they can afford him for 2014. Why not get something for him?

  14. Chip November 21st, 2012 at 11:21 am

    tucker November 21st, 2012 at 11:19 am

    If Cashman signs Pettitte, I would dangle Hughes. He has one year left and he may price himself beyond 189. If Guthrie got 25 million for three years, Hughes will get more than that. Not sure they can afford him for 2014. Why not get something for him?
    —————

    Makes perfect sense to me.

  15. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 11:22 am

    I see where LaHair was DFA’d, but not put on waivers…

    To be DFA’d , one must be placed on waivers

  16. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 11:23 am

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:01 am

    I feel very confident in Cashman’s evaluation on young pitchers :|

    ———————

    lol the list is a long one that’s for sure

  17. Patrick November 21st, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Nova is basically a 5 starter right now, I could see him being a 4 starter at some point. Chances are better if he moves to the NL though.

    I hope Cashman trades him if he can get a good deal. Phelps would also be a good trade piece depending on how teams value him.

  18. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Why not get something for him?

    ———————–

    Not sure if they can move him at this point.

  19. bruceb November 21st, 2012 at 11:27 am

    I hope you’re wrong about Barajas, Chip. He’s almost an exact replica of José Molina…okay as a back-up but not your everyday catcher.

  20. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:30 am

    I wouldn’t trade Hughes unless its in a deal for a legit and controlled bat…..Id rather try to extend him affordably

  21. Patrick November 21st, 2012 at 11:32 am

    I wouldn’t trade Hughes unless its in a deal for a legit and controlled bat…..Id rather try to extend him affordably

    That would be nice but with the way things are going it seems more likely that the Yankees will just let him walk after this year.

  22. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Assuming Andy comes back ….how many team have a #4 better than Hughes? That’s an advantage I wouldn’t give up unless you’re getting a real good return

  23. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:33 am

    “That would be nice but with the way things are going it seems more likely that the Yankees will just let him walk after this year.”

    Maybe so…..but 2013 might be their best shot at a title for awhile

  24. Patrick November 21st, 2012 at 11:35 am

    blake,

    By the way, I liked your idea of signing Hamilton to a 1 year 30 million deal. I would do that

  25. jacksquat November 21st, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 11:20 am
    I see where LaHair was DFA’d, but not put on waivers…

    To be DFA’d , one must be placed on waivers

    Not according to any explanation of DFA I’ve ever seen. A team can place a DFA’d player on waivers in the first 7 days after being DFA’d. He can be traded before ever going on waivers.

  26. Chip November 21st, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Patrick November 21st, 2012 at 11:32 am

    I wouldn’t trade Hughes unless its in a deal for a legit and controlled bat…..Id rather try to extend him affordably

    That would be nice but with the way things are going it seems more likely that the Yankees will just let him walk after this year.
    ———————

    The problem as I see it is that Hughes is going to expect more in cash than Guthrie got – Guthrie’s contract is really based on the 14 starts he had for the Royals after they picked him up, which is just stupid – in any case though – I think that eliminates the possibility of him being extended at a favorable deal and also hurts his trade value because; quite frankly, I don’t think a team is going to want to give up a decent controllable asset for a number 3 or 4 starter who is going to want significant money.

  27. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:40 am

    “By the way, I liked your idea of signing Hamilton to a 1 year 30 million deal. I would do that”

    Would the Yankees? Would Hamilton?

  28. Chip November 21st, 2012 at 11:41 am

    jacksquat November 21st, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 11:20 am
    I see where LaHair was DFA’d, but not put on waivers…

    To be DFA’d , one must be placed on waivers

    Not according to any explanation of DFA I’ve ever seen. A team can place a DFA’d player on waivers in the first 7 days after being DFA’d. He can be traded before ever going on waivers.
    —————

    Right, but the Cubs aren’t going to trade him because they are trying to help LaHair out – he wants to play in Japan. What I suggest is making him an offer and let him decide between Japan and the New York Yankees.

  29. Chip November 21st, 2012 at 11:43 am

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:40 am

    “By the way, I liked your idea of signing Hamilton to a 1 year 30 million deal. I would do that”

    Would the Yankees? Would Hamilton?
    ————

    Maybe and no.

    For the Yankees it’s virtually a no risk high reward deal.

    For Hamilton though it’s a lot of risk. Yes, $30m is more than he would make in any single year of a multiyear deal, but it’s less guaranteed overall money than he’s going to get in a multiyear deal; and he would simply be another year into his 30s next season, no matter how good a year he has.

  30. Patrick November 21st, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Would the Yankees? Would Hamilton?

    I think the Yankees would LOVE that deal. I think Hamilton would laugh at it. At a minimum he will get double that in guaranteed money, probably closer to triple.

  31. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:46 am

    “I think the Yankees would LOVE that deal. I think Hamilton would laugh at it. At a minimum he will get double that in guaranteed money, probably closer to triple.”

    True….but there are questions about him that may be driving his market down…..a clean and healthy year in NY could answer those questions if what he wants isn’t out there now

  32. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 11:47 am

    Not according to any explanation of DFA I’ve ever seen. A team can place a DFA’d player on waivers in the first 7 days after being DFA’d. He can be traded before ever going on waivers.

    The end result of the DFA is the player is removed from the 40 man roster. The only way to do that is to trade him or waive him. So you’re right that he can be traded, but if no one trades for LaHair he will be put on waivers.

  33. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Looks like Softbank is close to a deal with LaHair. I wonder if the cubs can trade him to there?

  34. Chip November 21st, 2012 at 11:49 am

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:46 am

    “I think the Yankees would LOVE that deal. I think Hamilton would laugh at it. At a minimum he will get double that in guaranteed money, probably closer to triple.”

    True….but there are questions about him that may be driving his market down…..a clean and healthy year in NY could answer those questions if what he wants isn’t out there now
    —————

    If he was 25 maybe – but he’s already on the wrong side of 30. Any questions that were answered by him having a clean and healthy year at 31 would be replaced with new ones about how he’s going to age and if you really want to sign up for years after 35 for a guy who has put his body through so much abuse.

  35. Mike Ri November 21st, 2012 at 11:51 am

    take it for what its worth . .per rotoworld

    According to CBS Sports’ Jon Heyman, the Tigers and Yankees have expressed interest in Stephen Drew.
    The Red Sox are also known to be kicking the tires. Drew batted just .223/.309/.348 in 79 games this summer between the Diamondbacks and Athletics, but he has decent career numbers and once hit 21 homers in a season. Teams are obviously viewing him as a low-risk, high-reward type of free agent signing.

  36. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:52 am

    “If he was 25 maybe – but he’s already on the wrong side of 30. Any questions that were answered by him having a clean and healthy year at 31 would be replaced with new ones about how he’s going to age and if you really want to sign up for years after 35 for a guy who has put his body through so much abuse.”

    Eh I don’t think 1 year would affect that a ton….if he went out and hit 50 homers at YS then hit the market next year he would be in a better position maybe to command te type deal he wants than after his finish to 2012

  37. Chip November 21st, 2012 at 11:54 am

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:52 am

    “If he was 25 maybe – but he’s already on the wrong side of 30. Any questions that were answered by him having a clean and healthy year at 31 would be replaced with new ones about how he’s going to age and if you really want to sign up for years after 35 for a guy who has put his body through so much abuse.”

    Eh I don’t think 1 year would affect that a ton….if he went out and hit 50 homers at YS then hit the market next year he would be in a better position maybe to command te type deal he wants than after his finish to 2012
    ————-

    A few years ago I would’ve agreed with you – but with the emphasis teams are putting on avoiding long contracts with over 30 players in light of the new drug testing I don’t think that’s the case anymore.

  38. blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Drew would be nice if they can convince him to be a utility guy……if they are really interested him him then that suggests that either they aren’t confident that Nunez can play SS as much as he may have to or they are thinking about trading him…..

  39. jacksquat November 21st, 2012 at 11:55 am

    I thought MLB teams could make trades with Japanese teams?

    That seemed to be the intent, DFA -> trade.

  40. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 11:58 am

    but with the emphasis teams are putting on avoiding long contracts with over 30 players in light of the new drug testing I don’t think that’s the case anymore.

    This invisible emphasis that has not been seen in any of the offseasons.

  41. blake November 21st, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Yea there isn’t much evidence that teams are slowing down on contracts aside from the Yankees…..the Yankess are spending less…..everyone else is spending more

  42. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    Eh I don’t think 1 year would affect that a ton….if he went out and hit 50 homers at YS then hit the market next year he would be in a better position maybe to command te type deal he wants than after his finish to 2012

    ————————

    If he had that type of season in YS then the next yr I could see him getting 7 no doubt about it

  43. blake November 21st, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Hey give Hamilton 50 million for 2013…..just pretend its the Darvish bid money they should have spent.

  44. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    I thought MLB teams could make trades with Japanese teams?

    Not for MLB players I’m pretty certain. They can release minor league guys to go play in Japan.

  45. tucker November 21st, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Hughes may appeal to a contender like the Dodgers. I would prefer to keep him, too, because I think he turned a corner last year. I just don’t think the Yanks can afford him.

    Drew is also a nice player. He plays within himself, good defender and a decent hitter. I’m a little skeptical about the Yanks’ legit interest in him (the report was from Heyman, a notorious booster of Boras clients).

    It may make sense for Drew to take a one-year pillow contract to reestablish his value and prove his health. But if he takes such a contract, he will likely want to be an everyday player.

  46. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Put it this way, if the Cubs could trade LaHair to Japan they wouldn’t bother DFAing him.

  47. blake November 21st, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    Can Arod veto a trade to Japan?

  48. tucker November 21st, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Blake, good question. Perhaps if his contract included incentives to break Sadaaru Oh’s HR mark.

  49. blake November 21st, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    @Sean_McAdam: Source: #RedSox are narrowing their outfield search to Cody Ross and Jonny Gomes. http://t.co/pWxInMde #RedSoxTalk

  50. blake November 21st, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    How about a Choo/Gomes RF platoon?

    Gomes had a .974 OPS vs LHP last year

  51. blake November 21st, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    We could put a mustache on Arod and send him over there to learn to hit the shuto!

  52. jacksquat November 21st, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 12:05 pm
    Put it this way, if the Cubs could trade LaHair to Japan they wouldn’t bother DFAing him.

    He was probably DFA’d to make room on the 40-man.

  53. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    He was probably DFA’d to make room on the 40-man.

    Trading him to Japan would also make room on the 40 man, but they can’t, so they DFA’d him & once he clears waivers he can sign in Japan.

  54. comet November 21st, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    All the best at Thanksgiving to all who at one time or another inhabit this space!

  55. comet November 21st, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Would really like to see Andy Pettite back for one more season without injuries or a shortened season.

  56. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    I’m very glad Kuroda is back. He is the first pitcher we’ve had in a long time who was able to step up and be a true #2 and sometimes #1 last season. I see Andy as more of a wild card to the rotation. If we get him back I’m excited but if we don’t, the front office has to step up and bring in a solid pitcher.

    That said, most of us know the rotation is not the problem with this team. If they continue to ignore the problem it doesn’t matter who is in our rotation.

    As for Nova, I don’t give up on him. He was a better pitcher in his rookie season but he had better stuff last season with bad results outside of June. I think his issue is putting those two seasons together. Considering the “budget” mandate, I don’t expect the Yankees to trade any players who make low salaries.

    And Swisher’s camp leaking interest from the Red Sox reeked of him trying to get the Yankees to panic & call him and make an offer. I have a feeling the “Werth” offers aren’t materializing for Nick out there.

  57. blake November 21st, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    @YESNetwork: Thoughts? RT @NESN: Report: Red Sox Have Nick Swisher ‘On Their Radar’ for Right Field, First Base http://t.co/fxy3J5Ev

    Not a surprise….he’s a great for there and it’s make me pretty sad to see him go there but I think there is a good chance he does

  58. blake November 21st, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    I would think the Sox interst in Swisher is real….he fits pretty nicely there to me

  59. hardwired7 November 21st, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Swisher spinning his wheels going after balls careening around the right field wastelands in Fenway would be comical.

    Swisher hitting missiles into the 2nd or 3rd deck in Yankee stadium wearing a Sox uniform? Not so much.

  60. blake November 21st, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Nobody like the Choo/Gomes idea? Or just resigned to the Ichiro/Hairston fate?

  61. jacksquat November 21st, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 12:43 pm
    He was probably DFA’d to make room on the 40-man.

    Trading him to Japan would also make room on the 40 man, but they can’t, so they DFA’d him & once he clears waivers he can sign in Japan.

    He’s never going to reach waivers. He is being traded for cash, apparently. I think mlb players can be traded to a japanese team with the player’s permission.

  62. Bo knows November 21st, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Actually, Swisher would have to play LF, Boston being the opposite of Yankee Stadium.

  63. blake November 21st, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    LF and 1b

  64. Bo knows November 21st, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    Swisher spinning his wheels going after balls careening around the right field wastelands in Fenway would be comical.

    ———–
    That would leave me pretty gruntled.

  65. tomingeorgia November 21st, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Comet,
    A blessed Thanksgiving to you, too!

  66. comet November 21st, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Thanks Tom! Good to see you around in these days barren of Baseball!

  67. Hassey November 21st, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    I, for one, hope Swisher goes to play RF in Fenway. Flopping around out there and an easy out when we really need one (or, at least, more often than not)

  68. blake November 21st, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Careful what you guys wish for with Swisher….

  69. Patrick November 21st, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Careful what you guys wish for with Swisher….

    Seriously … Swisher is a good player, I definitely don’t want him on the Red Sox.

  70. blake November 21st, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Swisher is about as sure a bet to OPS .800 next year as anybody

    Red Sox signing Gomes to 2 year deal so there goes my Choo/Gomes plan

  71. tomingeorgia November 21st, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    I don’t want to see Swish in the AL East, Blake. He’s a far better and more versatile player than most here give him any credit for.

  72. AAA November 21st, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Forget Choo/Gomes platoon.

    Gomes is Boston bound to platoon with someone else.

  73. blake November 21st, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Swisher is a good regular season player that’ll be hard to replace…..he doesn’t seem to be able to control his emotions in the playoffs….but for the 162 game regular season he’s very valuable

  74. blake November 21st, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Offer Ross a nice 1 year deal….if they are being aggressive with those then be aggressive with guys that actually have a skill you need…..he mashes lefties

  75. blake November 21st, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    @mlbtraderumors: Red Sox, Jonny Gomes Nearing Two-Year Deal http://t.co/Li7GWkSu #mlb

  76. PittsburghYankeeFan November 21st, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Bring back Ichiro and Ibanez on one year deals.

    Convince Pettitte to re-sign (he will, not enough playing time in 2012, and if he gets to 250 wins he’ll be in the HOF).

    Figure out how to restructure ARod’s contract. Give him a program on Fox News, now they have bought 49% of YES. (Oh, I wish they could).

    Find a right handed (or switch hitting) bat somewhere. Dangle Hughes for it if need be.

    Sign Russell Martin, or if you can’t get him, sign a back-up catcher to placehold until Romine is ready.

    Not optimal, but I expect nothing from this team until after 2014 is over. Plan for that, and anything else is gravy.

  77. blake November 21st, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    The Yankees officially announced an agreement that allows News Corp. to acquire a 49% stake (which could reportedly grow to 80%) in the YES Network from investors like Goldman Sachs, NJ Holdings, and Providence Equity yesterday. The deal is still pending MLB approval and is expected to close by the end of the calendar year. The sale price indicates that the network is worth approximately $3 billion right now, meaning it’s likely more valuable than the team itself. Here’s more on the transaction courtesy of Darren Rovell, Andy Fixmer, and Scott Soshnick…

    The Yankees will sell 9% of their stake in YES, lowering their share to 25% and earning the club a whopping $270M. The team might also receive a $400-500M payment separate from the rights agreement, so think of it like a signing bonus.
    As part of the transaction, the Yankees have extended their agreement with YES to ensure the network will broadcast games through 2042. YES currently pays the team $85M annually for broadcast rights, but escalators will push that to $350M annually (!) by the end of the new agreement.
    Goldman, NJ Holdings, and Providence will retain some stake in YES but will have the option to sell the remainder to the Yankees and News Corp. in four years for a portion of the predetermined market value of $3.8 billion. That’s what everyone expects the network to be worth in 2016.
    Although there has been speculation (including by me) this deal with News Corp. is an indication the Steinbrenner family will look to sell the team down the line, the reporting trio all say this move puts them in better position to hold on to the club long-term.
    Brian Heyman has official statements from Hal Steinbrenner and others, so check that out if you’re interested.
    http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....orp-79424/

  78. blake November 21st, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    So clearly the Yankess need to lower payroll seeing as how they could earn 350 million a year from YES alone…..

  79. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    blake,

    They don’t leak stories directly to NY papers about the Red Sox and Swisher unless they are trying to get the Yankees and NY’ers attention. I think they’re hoping the mere thought of him in Boston sends fans crying into the streets to retain him.

    If he goes to Boston I’d be fine with it. All we need to do is throw him breaking pitches and we’ll get him out every time.

    Last season he put up his best numbers in a contract year which is always dubious to me.

    He turns 32 this weekend and I think his best years are behind him not to mention his mental approach to hitting is a huge part of the problem this team has had in crunch time.

    If Boston wants him let them pay him. This isn’t losing O’Neil or them losing Damon to us. It’s not even in the same ballpark.

    I think the Yankees can put together a lefty righty platoon that will equal or better what Swisher did in RF before all is said and done.

  80. blake November 21st, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    I think the Yankees can put together a lefty righty platoon that will equal or better what Swisher did in RF before all is said and done.”

    I think they could sure….will they be able to though or be willing to I don’t know….

  81. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    The Yankees money just from YES is going to increase by 5% each season. Are we going to see a corresponding increase in payroll? :)

    $85
    $89.25
    $93.7125
    $98.398125
    $103.3180313
    $108.4839328
    $113.9081295
    $119.6035359
    $125.5837127
    $131.8628984
    $138.4560433
    $145.3788454
    $152.6477877
    $160.2801771
    $168.294186
    $176.7088952
    $185.54434
    $194.821557
    $204.5626349
    $214.7907666
    $225.5303049
    $236.8068202
    $248.6471612
    $261.0795193
    $274.1334952
    $287.84017
    $302.2321785
    $317.3437874
    $333.2109768
    $349.8715256

    5.65 billion over 29 years.

  82. Bo knows November 21st, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    So clearly the Yankess need to lower payroll seeing as how they could earn 350 million a year from YES alone…..

    ———————
    Ahem – Kicking phrase is “by the end of the new agreement”.

    The new agreement “As part of the transaction, the Yankees have extended their agreement with YES to ensure the network will broadcast games through 2042″.

    So yes, the Yankees are making 350 mil in 2042.

    As Robert Heinlein once said “Tanstaafl”. What you gain on the backswing, you lose on the follow through.

  83. rm November 21st, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Chip November 21st, 2012 at 11:43 am
    blake November 21st, 2012 at 11:40 am

    “By the way, I liked your idea of signing Hamilton to a 1 year 30 million deal. I would do that”

    Would the Yankees? Would Hamilton?
    ————

    Maybe and no.

    For the Yankees it’s virtually a no risk high reward deal.

    For Hamilton though it’s a lot of risk. Yes, $30m is more than he would make in any single year of a multiyear deal, but it’s less guaranteed overall money than he’s going to get in a multiyear deal; and he would simply be another year into his 30s next season, no matter how good a year he has.

    ——————————————————–

    It might actually take 35 or even 40 Million. But I agree 1 year of Hamilton is still an idea worth considering.

  84. blake November 21st, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Yea it doesn’t start out at 350…..but as the article says they may get 400-500 million up front as a bonus with the deal…..and this is sepetate from what the team itself brings in……basically they are flush and they are just gonna get more flush as the years go by

  85. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    If they did resign Ibanez and then signed Scott Hairston to platoon with him in RF we would recreate Swisher’s numbers essentially.

    I’m not against that. It doesn’t inspire a ton of confidence, but you could resign Ibanez, Ichiro and get Hairston and the offense will be as good or slightly better depending on what a full season of Ichiro would bring.

    If the Red Sox are signing Gomes, they’d be looking at Swisher as a 1b probably & that means they are out on Cody Ross who I’d take over Hairston.

  86. blake November 21st, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    “If they did resign Ibanez and then signed Scott Hairston to platoon with him in RF we would recreate Swisher’s numbers essentially.”

    I’m not so sure….but even if so and those two locked down RF then you still need a DH

  87. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Hamilton isn’t signing for 1 year and 30 million. If he goes out and has a career ending injury he’ll have left 70 million on the table. You guys are dreaming.

    He’ll get 5/100 from someone.

  88. blake November 21st, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    If Ross would do a one year deal… Then he’d be a great addition to play RF vs LHP and DH some …I think he will want a full time gig though

  89. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    blake,

    You don’t need a DH if Ichiro is also resigned. Ibanez can DH against RHP, and essentially you’d be platooning Hairston and Ichiro or Hairston & Gardner.

    Joe isn’t going to just hand Arod DH against RHP as he’s been awful against RHP. He’ll use Ibanez there.

    But just looking at Ibanez/Hairston as a platoon you’d have over 30 HR’s, a .270 ish combined average and an OPS well over .800.

    Swisher will not do more than that and isn’t great against RHP to begin with.

  90. blake November 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    If Hamilton will sign for 5/100 then the Yankees should do that too

  91. Patrick November 21st, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    The Yankees money just from YES is going to increase by 5% each season. Are we going to see a corresponding increase in payroll?

    It’s actually absurd how much money the Yankees empire makes. Logically the Steinbrenners should be laughing at the luxury tax .. We all know George would

  92. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    I think Hamilton will get 5/100 & I wish the Yankees would do it. He’d fix the moribund middle of the order we have right now and push Tex and Arod down in the lineup to where they belong based on their declines.

  93. blake November 21st, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    “But just looking at Ibanez/Hairston as a platoon you’d have over 30 HR’s, a .270 ish combined average and an OPS well over .800.”

    I think that’s optimistic given Raul’s age…..but what you suggest is most likely what they’ll do

  94. GregD November 21st, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    I am not sure I would trade Hughes if the Yanks sign Pettitte. We need more than five starters…every year several go down……….makes no sense to trade him unless you get a starter in return…….

  95. blake November 21st, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Hamilton for 5/100 is better than Cano for 200 million

  96. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    I honestly think Raul, if he’s healthy, is good for 20 HR’s against RHP in Yankee Stadium. Hairston hit .280 something against Lefties with double digit HR’s so he’ll hold his end up.

    But Raul needs to signed to be the DH vs. RHP and not as a corner OF.

    You go to war with an OF of Ichiro, Grandy and Gardner against RHP and then sign Hairston or Cody Ross to be the platoon for 1 of the 3 against LHP.

    They’re not going to sign Hamilton or trade for Upton. All the prospects are either hurt or too far away from the majors to get Upton, otherwise we’d already have him.

  97. Shame Spencer November 21st, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    5.65 billion over 29 years.

    —————————

    This is why being the JLo Yankees is so effing gross…

  98. Bo knows November 21st, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    basically they are flush and they are just gonna get more flush as the years go by
    —————
    But the whole thing is driven by the product on the field and you can’t buy the players. Boston is flush with cash and they’re signing Gomes? Now that makes Yankee fans’ knees tremble.

    MLB has handicapped the big teams totally. Not only that, but they’ve shrunk the talent pool coming up to draft day as in two sport stars are going to opt for football a lot more. Let a Granderson walk and your reward is number 39 in the draft. MLB seems perfectly happy with Detroit/SF in the world series.

    There is a reason for Boston and Philly sucking slough water. Like it or not, a cap is in place with onerous penalties.

    There is a reason for Boston and Philly sucking sl

  99. Patrick November 21st, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    Raul had a great postseason but don’t forget he wasn’t exactly killing it for the entire year. .240/.308/.453 is nothing to get crazy about ..

    vs RHP he was .248/.319/.492 .. decent but not great. There are better options out there for hitting RHP.

  100. trisha - true pinstriped blue November 21st, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    Just heard the good news on WEEI. Thilled that Kuroda is coming back. (What a difference a year makes, 8760 little hours…)

    I hope you all have healthy, blessed, and fun Thanksgiving Days.

    And for the few of you that are obviously so heavily burdened, what with having to root for the New York Yankees and all, I offer you the following prayer:

    God grant me the patience to deal with my blessings.

    :lol:

    To the rest of you well-adjusted Yankee fans, there’s nothing more to say than GO YANKEES!!!

    :)

  101. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    The penalties have always been there.

  102. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    The question is what can you get for 1 year of Hughes from other teams?

    I honestly think there is no way Hughes resigns with the Yankees. I think if anyone feels messed around with over the course of his career, it’s him (and Joba) and he’ll want to move on from here. He doesn’t feel like a career Yankee to me. Joba, on the other hand, does. I think he’ll always want to pitch in pinstripes for as long as he can.

    Hughes, for one season, has to bring back something significant since you’re also giving up the potential draft pick from him declining the qualifying offer.

    I’m not sure a team will pay what he’s really worth to the Yankees.

  103. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Patrick,

    I agree with you completely, but I think Raul is in the plans because he’s cheap and will take a 1 year deal.

    I also think we have to remember that last season Gardner went down early so Raul played a lot more OF than was anticipated.

    As a strict DH vs RHP with limited OF play, he could match those numbers or better them I think.

    Ichiro resigning is key. I’m not entirely sure Gardner can stay healthy through a season and Ichiro brings a lot to the table.

  104. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Hard to rely on a 41 year old to stay the same or improve.

  105. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Jerkface,

    Absolutely. I’m just saying that if the Yankees sign him we know he can hit for power in YS and come up big sometimes. They won’t pay him anything so the first 1/2 of the season is his audition to show he’s not shot before the trading deadline comes around.

    I don’t love it as a strategy, but I think this is what they’ll do unless the front office is lurking on Hamilton.

  106. Hassey November 21st, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    in my humble opinion, having or not having swisher will not solely determine us making the playoffs. If we do make the playoffs, we know he’ll do nothing, so we may as well try to make it without him and pocket the money

  107. G. Love November 21st, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Hassey,

    Agreed. I’d rather see a creative platoon to replace Swisher than see Swisher brought back. Let’s give 2 players a shot to be post season heroes instead of going to him again.

  108. Hassey November 21st, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Can we get a second?

  109. Bo knows November 21st, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    The question is – Are they all in this year or is there life after 2013?

    Five pitchers and your top two position players as free agents leads me to believe the Apocalypse is due December/13.

  110. Hassey November 21st, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    if the Dolans’ Knicks are now the best team in the league, that alone tells me the Apocalypse is upon us. If you need me, ring me up in my safe room under the garage.

  111. mick November 21st, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Kuroda is a breath of fresh air.
    I don’t know if it’s his culture but what American born player would leave money on the table?

  112. mick November 21st, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    Swisher is a given.
    A given basket case in the post season.
    Look what Ross did for the Giants in 2010 and hope he wants to play here for a discount.

  113. Patrick November 21st, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    Kuroda is a breath of fresh air.
    I don’t know if it’s his culture but what American born player would leave money on the table?

    There are a few, but they are rare. Bronson Arroyo took less money to stay with Boston.. he was promptly traded away for Wily Mo Pena.

    I think Kuroda values the flexibility of playing on 1 year deals. He can move back to Japan whenever he wants. I really like the guy and I’m glad the Yankees have him.

  114. Hassey November 21st, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    have you ever heard anyone else speak Japanese in a baritone voice?

  115. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    Kuroda is a good dude. :D

  116. mick November 21st, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    If a player is playing for the money and not the love of the game he could come up small in big games. Not to say they didn’t play for the love of it early in their career but today’s money is not what they bargained for originally.

    You see it in so many walk years, even Swisher’s this year to an extent.

    They come up big or bigger than usual then fade in the postseason , reverting back to form as the moment becomes too big for them or they letdown as their primary mission is accomplished.

    To some extent this could have happened to Cano as he propelled us into the ALCS then exhaled.

  117. blake November 21st, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    @AndrewMarchand: Source: Yankees’ Kuroda took less to stay http://t.co/vLmfG5yj

  118. mick November 21st, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    if the Dolans’ Knicks are now the best team in the league, that alone tells me the Apocalypse is upon us.
    =====================
    Who else is playing the kind of defense they are ?
    Their talent is deep.

  119. blake November 21st, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    “Agreed. I’d rather see a creative platoon to replace Swisher than see Swisher brought back. Let’s give 2 players a shot to be post season heroes instead of going to him again.”

    For the same money Id rather have Swisher cause he’s much younger and he puts up the same numbers every year…..but the money won’t be the same of course.

    Choo/Ross RF platoon. Ibanez/Arod DH platoon !

  120. mick November 21st, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    Kuroda is also key in that he could set an example for other unselfish players who might want to play for the Yankees.
    One year contracts to players who embrace playing here is another indication they are not money grabbing journeymen but money ballplayers who will not wilt under pressure.

  121. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    Who else is playing the kind of defense they are ?

    ——————–

    The Heat

  122. mick November 21st, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Choo for one year but won’t his salary be determined by his arb with the Indians.

  123. mick November 21st, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    So we are now putting them in the same class as the Heat?
    High praise…

  124. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    mick November 21st, 2012 at 2:53 pm
    Kuroda is a breath of fresh air.
    I don’t know if it’s his culture but what American born player would leave money on the table?

    *******

    Barry Larkin

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

  125. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Jacksquat you’re right, it is possible to trade a player to japan with the player’s consent.

    D. Foreign Assignments
    Except for the return of conditional assignments from outside the
    United States and Canada, the contract of a Player shall not be assigned
    otherwise than within the United States and Canada, without the
    Player’s written consent.

  126. blake November 21st, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    “Choo for one year but won’t his salary be determined by his arb with the Indians.”

    Yea I think but doesn’t matter

  127. mick November 21st, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Larkin was always my 1st draft choice back in my fantasy baseball days.

  128. blake November 21st, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS: gomes was said seeking $3-4M per. doesnt mean he got exactly that. anything close would be nice raise from $1M made in ’12

    Gomes would have been a nice RH bench bat and platoon RFer

  129. blake November 21st, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    “I don’t know if it’s his culture but what American born player would leave money on the table?”

    Paul oneil

  130. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Choo’s salary will be determined by whatever team he is on at arbitration time, or if he signs a contract before he is traded.

  131. mick November 21st, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    Choo for 1 year but we won’t get fair value in a trade.

  132. mick November 21st, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Oneill and Larkin are the type of players I was referring to.
    Michael Young might also do.

  133. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    mick November 21st, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    So we are now putting them in the same class as the Heat?
    High praise…

    ———————–

    As far as playing well sure but I still think the Heat are a step ahead

  134. LGY November 21st, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Defensively, the Heat have actually been one of the worst teams in the NBA.

  135. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Damn for real well then I was still going on reputation

  136. LGY November 21st, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Yep. The Heat are ranked 24th in defensive rating

  137. blake November 21st, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    If the Yankees can’t trade for Upton or Gordon or somebody then hopefully they’ll check on Choo….if they could get him and a Cody Ross then that platoon would outperform most Rfers in baseball …..

    I also really think if Hamilton’s price is anywhere around 5/100 then they should sign him and trade Granderson for the max return they can get (preferably a 3B or SS prospect) and then consider letting Cano walk after next year.

    I’m fully aware that we will have an Ichiro/Hairston RF platoon most likely but I still can hope

  138. NYYROC November 21st, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    IIRC, Jarod Washburn left a lot of $ on table. He retired with years & $ on his deal when he felt he couldn’t pitch well enough anymore. Felt like he was stealing the $ so he went home.

  139. blake November 21st, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    Gil Meche just retired and left tons of money on the table

  140. blake November 21st, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Aside from like 5 teams….the NBA is the worst professional quality league I’ve ever seen

  141. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 3:46 pm
    Aside from like 5 teams….the NBA is the worst professional quality league I’ve ever seen

    ********

    I am guessing you did not see the AFC in the 80s (exception Rairders) and the Super Bowls that were played – - – -

  142. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    NBA is still relevant. You have the Heat, Spurs, Lakers, Grizzlies, Clippers, Thunder, and now maybe the Knicks – and the Celtics still might have a little fight – to say nothing of Chicago if Rose comes back the same (no guarantee). Add to it the huge international following. We are only two years removed from LeBron’s decision – and I am unaware of any recent FA decision having its own TV special, generating the ratings that it did, and then creating a villian storyline (the closest possibly being ARod’s original 252 million dollar contract) – - – -

  143. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 3:46 pm
    Aside from like 5 teams….the NBA is the worst professional quality league I’ve ever seen
    ———————————

    I wouldn’t go that far.

  144. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 3:54 pm
    NBA is still relevant.

    ————————

    I would say from the 2010 Laker/Celtic final to right now the NBA has more relevant and popular than baseball.

  145. blake November 21st, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    “I am guessing you did not see the AFC in the 80s (exception Rairders) and the Super Bowls that were played – – – -”

    Yea that was bad too

    “I wouldn’t go that far”

    I don’t know….most NBA rosters are pretty bad

  146. blake November 21st, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    I was speaking to the quality of play more so than popularity…..it’s a star driven league and now that it has some stars again its back on the map……but that doesn’t mean most of the teams are any good

  147. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    Comment From Die Hard Yanks Fan
    Phil Hughes for Shin-Soo Choo? Is that possible?
    3:37
    Ben Nicholson-Smith: Indians wouldn’t make that deal.

  148. Bo knows November 21st, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    Stoneburner

    Thanks for the Larkin link. He and Mattingly were my favorites for playing, the game within the game, the right way.

  149. Shame Spencer November 21st, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    Comment From Die Hard Yanks Fan
    Phil Hughes for Shin-Soo Choo? Is that possible?
    3:37
    Ben Nicholson-Smith: Indians wouldn’t make that deal.

    —————–

    Lol.. really?

    Since I’m the lie-decider, I’m gonna call bull on that one lol. Hughes is a legit starter and Choo is a platoon player.

  150. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Bo knows November 21st, 2012 at 4:04 pm
    Stoneburner

    Thanks for the Larkin link. He and Mattingly were my favorites for playing, the game within the game, the right way.

    *********

    No problem. You are right – those two did it right. Happy holidays – - – -

  151. Bo knows November 21st, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    No problem. You are right – those two did it right. Happy holidays – – – -

    ———–
    And to you.

  152. blake November 21st, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    The Indians have no use for Hughes….they are rebuilding and he’s a FA after next year…..now nova or Phelpsayne they would

  153. blake November 21st, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Choo has a big platoon split but he’s not really a platoon player I don’t think….and even if he is he’s a lefty so he’s the bigger part of the platoon and he’s really good against RHP…..if the Indians make trades it’s gonna be for young and controllable pieces they can build with Id think

  154. Shame Spencer November 21st, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    The Indians have no use for Hughes….they are rebuilding and he’s a FA after next year…..now nova or Phelpsayne they would

    ——————

    If I could get Hughes for Choo straight up I’d do it and just flip him lol.

  155. Shame Spencer November 21st, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    I just don’t think Choo would be worth as much as Hughes.. You can find a lot of other players like him, but I guess the same could be said of Hughes and his 4.5 ERA.

  156. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    You can’t really find an above average defensive outfielder who can steal bases and post an .800+ OPS (.900+ vs righties)

    Andre Ethier is worse against lefties & defensively and he got 17 million AAV

  157. mick November 21st, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    What’s wrong with the quality of play in the NBA?

  158. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    Soria is open to setting up for Mariano. Incentive laden deal with a decent base might get it done.

    5h Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    I think Joakim Soria would be a great depth move if the Yankees can get him to a one year deal.

  159. mick November 21st, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    The Yanks need someone like Scutaro to spell Jeter and Arod.
    He could also step in if either went down.
    He could be starting 3-4 times a week and dhing a little.
    Should give him around 500 AB’s.

  160. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    @juice33nyc Yea the HR’s are concerning but Haren is a very effective pitcher when he is healthy.

    4h Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    Haren would be good only if he comes cheap. Red flagged health wise.

  161. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    CC, Kuroda, Pettitte, Hughes, Ivan Nova or David Phelps. Pretty solid group for 2013. More depth may be needed.

  162. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    but that doesn’t mean most of the teams are any good

    ——————–

    There are top heavy teams but I think the pool of teams is deeper now than say a few yrs ago.

    Lakers
    Clippers
    Heat
    Okc
    Philly
    Denver
    Knicks
    Nets
    Spurs
    Bos
    Indy
    Bulls

    All good teams imo. Go back a few yrs ago during the Shaq and Kobe and Duncan era you had

    Lakers
    Spurs
    Nets
    and then

  163. mick November 21st, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Who will be this years Sweaty as I’m sure the RS will think they are stealing him from us.

  164. mick November 21st, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    If 1/2 of NBA teams are good how is that worse than MLB?

  165. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    I guess you can also put the Pistons in during that era they were a top team.

  166. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    There are top heavy teams but I think the pool of teams is deeper now than say a few yrs ago.

    These statements don’t really speak to the argument blake is making though. When the Laker/Spurs were winning & playing in the finals all the time that doesn’t necessarily mean there was less talent in the league. It could have just been that the lakers/spurs were the most talented.

    It doesn’t matter if there are 12 teams who are all competing if the skill level of those teams is less than before.

  167. UnKnown November 21st, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    Gomes is the type of guy that is more fitted to be a Sock. Can’t picture him at all in pinstripes. We can do better than that anyways.

  168. mick November 21st, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    The goal of the 3 major sports is parity.
    As long as there is a major star on an NBA team they are on their way to being a competitor as others will come.
    A team can’t stay bad for too long as they will grow with their high draft picks.
    If you are judging talent I am assuming the NFL is on top and there is more parity there than in the NBA or MLB.
    Sounds more like you are rating the leagues by personal preference.

  169. blake November 21st, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    “Andre Ethier is worse against lefties & defensively and he got 17 million AAV”

    That’s a bad contract but very true

  170. blake November 21st, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Half the players in the NBA can’t shoot or play defense at all

  171. mick November 21st, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    there is more to basketball than outside shooting.
    as far as defense, anyone can play it if they want to.
    or the coach wants them to..

  172. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    It doesn’t matter if there are 12 teams who are all competing if the skill level of those teams is less than before.

    ********

    The skill level is better than it was 10 years ago – w/ guys like James, Durant, Griffin, Anthony, Paul, Wade, Rose, Williams, Howard, Horford, Davis, Randolph – it is great what has happened – there is more talent now than in the past

  173. blake November 21st, 2012 at 5:01 pm

    Maybe I’m being a bit “get off my lawn” about the NBA but I find most of the games that the heat or Lakers or Thunder don’t play in pretty unwatchable just because guys don’t seem very good… I’m no basketball expert and I’m sure some would say the same about an Astros/Cubs game…..

  174. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 5:02 pm

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 4:55 pm
    Half the players in the NBA can’t shoot or play defense at all

    *******

    Naaah – blame the rule changes – defenders on the perimeter are handicapped by the hand check fouls. Remember – the league rule changes were a result of the defense roughness of the late 80s (first with the Detroit Bad Boys) then carried over by the Knicks, Heat, and Pacers in the 90s – - – -the NBA forever changed with the incident at the Palace b/w the Pistons and the Pacers too – - – -

  175. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 4:55 pm
    Half the players in the NBA can’t shoot or play defense at all

    ——————–

    That’s not true …not half but of course there are guys that fit that mold like Adam Morrison.

  176. blake November 21st, 2012 at 5:03 pm

    Personally I think an average NBA team from 15 years ago would kill an average team today……better athletes today but fundamentally the NBA is awful

  177. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 5:01 pm
    Maybe I’m being a bit “get off my lawn” about the NBA but I find most of the games that the heat or Lakers or Thunder don’t play in pretty unwatchable just because guys don’t seem very good… I’m no basketball expert and I’m sure some would say the same about an Astros/Cubs game…..

    ******

    Should check out a Clippers game – plus the Lakers are brutal a little right now – Howard and company I think only hit 12 or so free throws last night against the Knights – - – -Grizzlies are interesting to watch – and the ball movement of the Knicks is fun – - – - -

  178. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    blake November 21st, 2012 at 5:03 pm
    Personally I think an average NBA team from 15 years ago would kill an average team today……better athletes today but fundamentally the NBA is awful

    *******

    again – the rule changes would drive the defenders crazy – but Jordan would be beyond crazy with the new rule changes – - – -

  179. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    The skill level is better than it was 10 years ago – w/ guys like James, Durant, Griffin, Anthony, Paul, Wade, Rose, Williams, Howard, Horford, Davis, Randolph – it is great what has happened – there is more talent now than in the past

    You just rattled off 12 names but that doesn’t mean the entire league is better. And 10 years ago you had T-Mac, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, Pierce, Wallace, Gasol as ROY, Iverson, Shaq, Brand, nash, & Garnett.

  180. blake November 21st, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    Jordan would score 50 a night today…..teams couldn’t just tackle him like they used to

  181. Against All Odds November 21st, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    The skill level is better than it was 10 years ago – w/ guys like James, Durant, Griffin, Anthony, Paul, Wade, Rose, Williams, Howard, Horford, Davis, Randolph – it is great what has happened – there is more talent now than in the past

    ————————-

    Forgot about players like Love, Aldridge, Harden,

    That’s not even counting a guy like Kyrie Irving who will be the best pg in the league in about 3 yrs.

  182. mick November 21st, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    Basketball like football is a linear game where baseball is multi dimensional.
    Baseball is the easiest to watch as you don’t know what will happen from pitch to pitch.
    The other 2 sports you can almost predict what is going to happen as the means to scoring is one dimensional , that is run or pass, shoot and defend.
    Rectangular court and field vs diamond shape.

    Maybe you just don’t like the game blake…

  183. PacoDooley November 21st, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    mick November 21st, 2012 at 2:53 pm
    Kuroda is a breath of fresh air.
    I don’t know if it’s his culture but what American born player would leave money on the table?
    ——————————–

    Not to be too harsh, but this is just an idiotic statement. Lots of American and Latin players have left money on the table. A-Rod tried to leave a lot of money on the table to go to Boston and the trade was nixed because of the money he was giving up.

    Jered Weaver could have gotten a lot more money if he wanted to test the market and possibly leave the Angels. At the time he basically said “I like it here and am already getting paid more money than I will ever need”.

    We could find an endless line of stories like this.

  184. The Return of Stoneburner November 21st, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    You just rattled off 12 names but that doesn’t mean the entire league is better. And 10 years ago you had T-Mac, Kobe, Duncan, Dirk, Pierce, Wallace, Gasol as ROY, Iverson, Shaq, Brand, nash, & Garnett.

    **********

    First – Nash was not Nash yet. I could have added Westbrook and others – the NBA was not that great league wise in the early 00s – it was Kobe Shaq with Tim Duncan showing up and the surprise Pistons one year – there is greater depth of talent – especially with one and dones coming to the league quicker than 10 years ago where the players usually had 2-3 year and sometimes 4 (see Duncan) coming into the league at a greater rate and earlier in their careers. I mean you have interesting teams in Milwaukee with Jennings and Ellis – and even in Golden State with Curry when healthy – or Sacramento with Evans and could have been if Cousins grows up (maybe like Randolph) – and then even your underperforming teams have a wealth of talent – Just look at the Pacers – man – with Paul George and company – or if Philly rebounds if Bynum comes back healthy in January (and does not play anymore bowling!) with the young PG Jrue Holiday. And then James Harden – - – -just a really interesting league – especially with different NBA champions the past two seasons and the Heat are not necessarily a lock to repeat – - – -

  185. mick November 21st, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Interesting that when Magic and Bird were playing each other, it was considered the Golden Age.
    May be more talent now but less entertaining, might just be the nature of the game.

  186. blake November 21st, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    “Maybe you just don’t like the game blake…”

    Nope….. I love the game …. Love college hopps and was a big NBA fan growing up……

  187. mick November 21st, 2012 at 5:15 pm

    Not to be too harsh, but this is just an idiotic statement. Lots of American and Latin players have left money on the table.
    =================
    And you know this -how?

  188. mick November 21st, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    college hoops and the nba are not the same game.

  189. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    You’re talking mostly just about different teams being able to win, that isn’t the point. You can have a lot of talent but if the distribution of it is a certain way you can end up with dynasties. If you have poor talent and a wide distribution of the good talent you end up with ‘parity’.

  190. blake November 21st, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    November 21, 2012 at 5:16 pm
    college hoops and the nba are not the same game.

    Aren’t both basketball ? They are just played differently

  191. mick November 21st, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    they are as opposite as can be.
    prolly why you like college ball better.

    college ball being closer to the way it was meant to be played.

  192. Jerkface November 21st, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    First – Nash was not Nash yet

    And some of the players you mentioned are not anything yet, like Davis. Nash was well on his way to being Nash in 2002. You seem to be more caught up in the distribution of top talent rather than the overall talent of the league.

  193. blake November 21st, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    Back to baseball….I like the couple of moves that Boston has made so far

  194. fuster November 21st, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    Cashman’s comments about Nova

    “He’s a good, young, under-control, not-even-arbitration-eligible starter with a boatload of experience…”

    lacked only…… “and you guys have my cell number…..”

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