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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Are you holding out hope for Hamilton?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 07, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Based on everything we’ve heard and seen — not willing to give more money to Russell Martin, focusing on one-year deals, avoiding any sort of significant investment in 2014 — the idea of the Yankees signing Josh Hamilton sound absurd.

But we’ve seen the Yankees reverse course and make stunning decisions in the past.

Hamilton is still the best bat on the market, and the Yankees have a place to play him in right field. Bob Nightengale has heard that some in the organization are doing some digging on Hamilton. What does that mean? I have no idea. Could be a few guys asking questions out of curiosity. Could be someone in power preparing to make a move. Joel Sherman points out that we’ve seen the Yankees give in to pressure in the past, and certainly the pressure is on right now.

I’ll add two things: 1. The idea of Hamilton taking a short-term contract is hard for me to swallow. He’s the best hitter on a market that’s clearly willing and able to spend money. And he’s well aware of his own health problems. This is a prime opportunity for him to cash in and gain some stability. 2. If the Yankees can’t get Hamilton on some sort of over-the-top, short-term deal, a long-term commitment to could be the kind of thing that kills this franchise for the next few years. It could very well be a second Alex Rodriguez deal, and already the Yankees are struggling to weather the storm of one such contract.

Do you believe the Yankees could be in the market for Hamilton? And would you want them to be?

Comments

comments

 

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234 Responses to “Are you holding out hope for Hamilton?”

  1. Hassey December 7th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    I don;t even know how to answer Chad’s last question.

    As Barbarino used to say “I’m so confuuuused!”

  2. AAA December 7th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Don’t believe they’re in it, would want them to be if 4 years or fewer.

  3. JoeyVegas December 7th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Or did they hear that Boston was more seriously considering than they thought and are leaking info to drive up the price???

  4. LGY December 7th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    A Bad defensive Catcher will Absolutely Kill a team.

    ———————–

    Posada really killed them all those years.

  5. NYY fan in NH December 7th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    I’d rather take a chance with a 3-4 year deal with Hamilton, than to give Cano a 7-8 year deal. Unless, they shed more contracts and could possibly retain Cano. Granderson is off the books as well as Pettitte, Kuroda, Mo. There is a lack of offense to protect Cano this year. Arod, we have no clue what he will be like when and if he comes back next year. I’m not worried about the character issues with Hamilton. This organization has strong characters in the clubhouse. His swing is tailor made for YS. There’s an open DH spot since Alex won’t be occupying it til at least July..

  6. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    So if they stayed under for 3 seasons they would save 140 dollars. 63 million of that is simply ‘We decided to stop paying as much’. 45 million is taxes not paid. 35 million is revenue sharing money returned to them. Thats over 3 years.

    —————-

    So it’s actually them saving > $27 million in regards to the luxury tax and revenue sharing per season… which, btw, is what they’ll be gaining in TV $$$

  7. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    And how would a long term Hamilton contract, kill the Yankees more than a long-term Cano contract would??? This issa knee-jerk reaction to A-Rod’s contract, and neither Hamilton or Cano are gonna see anything close to A-Rod’s deal. The Yanks have an opportunity to get Hamilton for less $$$ and fewer years than Cano is gonna get next season. They would be wise to Carpe Diem.

  8. Mike in Harrisburg December 7th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    Regarding Cano – he has not shown he can maintain any kind of discipline when he is not protected in the lineup. He was exposed pretty badly during the playoffs and while there may have been other factors to consider then, I am far from convinced he deserved “the man” money.

  9. blake December 7th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    “I’ll add two things: 1. The idea of Hamilton taking a short-term contract is hard for me to swallow. He’s the best hitter on a market that’s clearly willing and able to spend money.”

    the only reported offer out there is 3 years and Texas has said they won’t go past 4 I think……every team is afraid to give him a long term deals because of his past…..it’s a prime opportunity to get a premium talent for a lot less years than they normally cost.

  10. Tackelberry December 7th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Could also be something planted out there by his agent in an effort to drive up his price for another team. With Levine wielding more power these days and sensitive to fan and media backlash though, you never know. I won’t count the Yanks out though until he actually signs with another team. I do agree though that no more than a 4 year deal is appropriate.

  11. austinmac December 7th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    I would like them to be in it, but don’t believe they will simply because of money.

    Four or five year contracts carry risks for any player, but ten year contracts like AROD and Pujols have carry guaranteed unproductive years. Comparing the two are apples and oranges.

    The Yankees wouldn’t risk Darvish, Chapman, Cespedes, Soler and the like. All foolish by hindsight. There is no moving forward without risk.

  12. blake December 7th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    as I’ve said…..I’d offer him a 4/100 deal with an opt out after year 1.

    He has a great year and leaves then you essentially had him for a one year deal and you can focus on Cano……he doesn’t leave and you only on the hook for 3 more years and then ownership can decide what to do with Robbie.

    My guess is he’d take the opt out because players always do.

  13. Warning Track Power December 7th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    i can’t believe i’m about to type this, but i think right now is the perfect time to sign
    Hamilton.
    a 3 year deal at the most with maybe a team option in year 4.
    if Hamilton agrees to a short term deal like that, then it’s time for the Yankees to take a chance on Hamilton.

  14. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    And how would a long term Hamilton contract, kill the Yankees more than a long-term Cano contract would??? This issa knee-jerk reaction to A-Rod’s contract, and neither Hamilton or Cano are gonna see anything close to A-Rod’s deal. The Yanks have an opportunity to get Hamilton for less $$$ and fewer years than Cano is gonna get next season. They would be wise to Carpe Diem.

    ———————

    You’re making sense Donny!! Don’t stop now!!

  15. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Very well said G. Love. Your posts have been on point over the past several weeks.
    they have no idea how hard it is to operate this team on a budget. Hal seems to bleieve the kids will save them. He thought the same thing with Trey and the B’s and now he’s doing it with the kids in A ball. Sure some will make it but if you listen to Hal all of them will. They have the opportunity to to out two of the best hitters in the game back to back and say f the budget. Yes I know it’s not our money but Hamilton would fill all those needs:power, excitement, buzz, fill seats, etc. This maybe blasphemy but JH has Mantle type ability. Why not bring this version of Mantle into the new stadium?

  16. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Hamilton’s bat in Yankee stadium would bring comparisons to Ruth at the Old Park. I would go that 5th season IF that put the Yankees over the top in getting him. We are basically playing with Cano money here, if you believe the Yanks are gonna re-sign Cano. Signing Hamilton would be cheaper, and the contract length shorter. SOLD

  17. raymagnetic December 7th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    I think Hamilton is a disaster waiting to happen but I said earlier this week that I do believe they have something big up their sleeves and Hamilton is likely it.

  18. SoS December 7th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Im with Donnybrook on this one. Cano is going to get a 10 year deal worth over 200 mil. Hes Boras’s 2013 meal ticket. We cannot another albatross contract. Arod was better that Cano at his age and now we are trying to payoff doctors to say he can no longer play the game. Signing Hamilton and unloading Grandy and Cano can be the quickest way to reload. We also need pitching after this year.

    Question for all. Why all the love for Upton? He seems to be the clone of Beckett when it comes to numbers. He has a good year every other year. Would us Yankee fans accept this? I was not a Swisher fan because of his roller coaster and if you look at his numbers, they were better than Justins last year. What am I missing besides Upton being 25 and having potential? There have been many players that never lived up to the hype. Im not so sure we should if given the opportunity empty out our farm for him.

  19. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    austinmac December 7th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    I would like them to be in it, but don’t believe they will simply because of money.

    ————–

    Exactly this is just throwing the fans a bone hey look we’re checking in on Hamilton

  20. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    The Yankees wouldn’t risk Darvish, Chapman, Cespedes, Soler and the like. All foolish by hindsight. There is no moving forward without risk.

    ——————–

    Cespedes is the one that really kills me… Darvish had a posting fee, fine, I can buy that the price was too much even if the AAV wouldn’t be… but Cespedes was right there for the taking.

  21. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 7th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    First of all, a 3 or 4 year contract at a high ACV is not something that is going to kill the franchise over the next few years compared to ARod’s TEN YEAR CONTRACT that is bleeding the Yankees more and more with each passing day.

    If he’s entertaining 3 and 4 year deals, which I guarantee he is, then the Yankees should look into it. If he wants 5+, take a pass.

    And as far as Hamilton’s future “security” goes, even a 3 year contract at $15 per would make him more than secure for his entire life unless he goes on some drug and alcohol binge again…and if he’s spending that much $ on that, he’ll likely die before he can even spend anything close to that.

  22. AAA December 7th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    He thought the same thing with Trey and the B’s and now he’s doing it with the kids in A ball.

    ========================================

    Can’t pin the Trey and B’s thing on Hal. Those were straight Cashman.

  23. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    Warning Track Power December 7th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    i can’t believe i’m about to type this, but i think right now is the perfect time to sign
    Hamilton.

    —————

    Embrace the honey badger!! Embrace Team Greedy! Come over to the dark side!!

  24. G. Love December 7th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    I’d give him 5 years without batting an eyelash. Start at 5/100 and work up from there to get him to sign.

    Having Hamilton in a clubhouse with guys like Jeter, Mo & Pettitte still there gives me zero worries.

    Hamilton could probably break Maris’ single season record clean in Yankee Stadium. Think about that for a moment. Imagine what that would do for the Yankees and the rest of baseball. A guy chasing 61 w/drug testing? The media would fall all over itself. Gammons might melt into a pile of goo.

  25. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Josh Hamilton hit the white facade behind the bleachers when he was in the HR derby at the Stadium. It literally almost went out of the park.

    Never seen anything like it in my life.

    Please…. please put all of us in a position to have to listen to people tell us how awful we were and how we were worried over nothing and how this is still the Yankees and of course we’ll do anything to win…. please. I want to have to say I’m sorry. I want to!!

  26. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 7th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Hamilton on a 3 or 4 year deal would be a risk well worth taking.

    As someone pointed out recently on here, he’s still more than capable at the plate, the porch in RF was built for that kind of swing, and he puts butts in the seats like ARod used to.

    Its worth looking into. If they can add some kind of clause that renders portions of the contract null if he boozes or does drugs, then all the better (albeit doubtful).

  27. austinmac December 7th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    SoS,

    At this point, we would like anyone other than a giant hole in RF. Or catcher. Or 3B. Or DH.

    Upton has big potential and has demonstrated some of it already. The Yankees have no one of that skill set that isn’t ready to bolt after next year.

  28. Jerkface December 7th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    First of all, a 3 or 4 year contract at a high ACV is not something that is going to kill the franchise over the next few years compared to ARod’s TEN YEAR CONTRACT that is bleeding the Yankees more and more with each passing day.

    It will kill them if their plan is to do this 189 budget thing. Of course it won’t kill their actual profit or anything, they should sign him if he can be had for such a nice deal.

  29. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    AAA December 7th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    He thought the same thing with Trey and the B’s and now he’s doing it with the kids in A ball.

    ========================================

    Can’t pin the Trey and B’s thing on Hal. Those were straight Cashman.

    ————————————————————————–

    I’m not pinning them on Hal. I’m saying Hal has this pie in sky belief that all the kids will work out. He basically threw the gauntlet down to B’s back in what ST 2011

  30. SoS December 7th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Embrace Team Greedy!

    ========

    What is this sorcery that you speak of?

  31. BoJo December 7th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Making a serious run at 2013 WS with Hamilton, Grandy, Cano would buy the team a little time IMO to reload if they lose Grandy, Cano, and Hughes…I believe Yankee fans would be supportive that at least team was trying–even if they couldn’t afford to keep all players gonig forward.

    Not to say that GLove isn’t right that this all boils down to the self-imposed decision on budget, but at least some of us will feel satisfied if we win it all in 2013.

    To my mind, getting clutch hitters like Hamilton and Ichiro is key to making a serious run.

  32. Warning Track Power December 7th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Shame-
    I am fully aware that Hamilton is a huge risk based on his past addictions and other off-field issues.
    I guess when it comes down to it, signing him for 3 or 4 years is worth the risk.
    Yankees have signed players to 10 year deals, so 66% less years sounds like a bargain.
    Despite needed power from the right side, I have to admit that Hamilton is a true all-star and that swing, in that stadium, with the short porch in right could be all the difference in
    the world.

  33. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Being young and having upside is important because it’s exactly what this team is lacking.. all of our players are either at or (well) beyond their peak. You cannot expect Granderson, Jeter, Tex, and Arod to improve. These player still bring a lot to the table but there is no upside.

    Upton may be a bit inconsistent but he’s still young and a 5 tool guy with a mountain of upside. I tend to think he might have some mental issues playing for a team that keeps actively engaging in trade talks for him. Put him in a lineup with vets like the Yanks and there’s no pressure on him to do it all. He’d be great for us.. but his cost is through the roof. There’s a reason why so many teams are desperate to get him though.

  34. austinmac December 7th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    It is so much better for the long term health of the team to spend money and not many prospects to improve the team. Trading young future hope is no way to keep down costs.

    Most of us agree on Hamilton. Maybe Brian can talk to Hal about it when he gets his lunch money for the week.

  35. AAA December 7th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Having Hamilton in a clubhouse with guys like Jeter, Mo & Pettitte still there gives me zero worries.

    ============================

    Clubhouse has nothing to do with it. He was in a clubhouse with equally quality guys in Texas.

    Issues are beyond the clubhouse and the ballfield. Always have been. Always will be.

  36. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    BoJo December 7th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Making a serious run at 2013 WS with Hamilton, Grandy, Cano would buy the team a little time IMO to reload if they lose Grandy, Cano, and Hughes

    ——————-

    100% agree.

    Blow it up next year, try to get Andy and Mo one last ring right now.

  37. Locke December 7th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    This is probably the last year that we have Andy, Kuroda, Mo, Granderson and possibly Cano. Lets get Hamilton and AJ P to win this one more time.

  38. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    If it’s me, I open at 4yrs $21Mill per. Go up to 4yrs $23 per and go all in, (if necessary) at 5yrs $110 Mill.

  39. blake December 7th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    “Hamilton could probably break Maris’ single season record clean in Yankee Stadium.”

    he hit 43 this year and was having tobacco withdrawals or whatever and only hit a total of 8 in June and July combined……I think he seriously could make a run at Maris with a full healthy season in YS……could you imagine the hype around that…..

  40. jacksquat December 7th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    So far I’ve only heard 3 years from both the Texas and Seattle. That’s probably a starting position, so I guess they could go up to 4. I see no reason to go to 5 from the Yankees.

  41. jacksquat December 7th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Here’s how close the Rangers have been to acquiring Upton. Wednesday night a Rangers official phoned an Astros official and said “we got Upton,” according to Peter Gammons of MLB Network (on Twitter).
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Zt0SMIt3uVGplc7r.99

  42. SoS December 7th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    austinmac,
    I understand that Upton has POTENTIAL. I remember before he was even called up to the bigs asking CB who does he see coming out of the minors that could challenge Alex’s homerun numbers and talent. His answer was Justin. But all I see is inconsistency. We bang on Hughes for being inconsistent and not having a third pitch to be a #1. Is it worth giving up half our farm for that? Not a big fan of his brother, dont like the way he plays the game and wonder if Justin would be able to handle the pressure of playing in NY. Failure/inconsistencies are not an option. Some now wish the Grandy trade never happened. We might be more in a situation that we have to run a marathon not a sprint.

  43. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    I think he seriously could make a run at Maris with a full healthy season in YS……could you imagine the hype around that…..

    ———————-

    Could you imagine him and Cano back to back. *wipes drool*

  44. Brian December 7th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    This Hamilton situation seems like a rerun of the Bernie Williams/ Carlos Beltran situation a few years ago.

    As I recall, Beltran wanted to play for the Yankees but they passed because they didn’t have the $$ for the following season because Williams was on the last year of his long term contract and was due a lot of $$.

    What I didn’t get was why they Yankees, knowing Williams w/b gone after only one more year, knowing they were going to have an opening in the outfield, knowing the $$ would free up after Williams left, didn’t take the ling term view of spending more that one year (Williams plus Beltran) knowing they’d have the $$ from Williams’ expired contract after that one year.

    Almost the same thing now. Opening in the outfield. Granderson signed for one more year at big $$ (albeit not quite a wash with what Hamilton would probably demand). After next season, with Granderson gone, not to mention Pettitte, Rivera probably retiring, Kuroda on a one year deal, Hamilton’s salary gets covered, maybe 1/2 by Granderson’s alone.

    And who knows what’s happening with Cano. But after a season of potentially being the only great hitter left on the team, and thus having that pressure plus not seeing pitches because of that, might he not want to leave for a team with a chance to win?

    Long term, especially if the long term is only 5 years or so, Hamilton makes too much sense.

  45. AAA December 7th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Random thought.

    Yankees could have had 4 years of Swisher, 2 of Martin and put together a nice Keppinger/Chavez temporary 3B platoon/back up infield for considerably less money than it will likely take to sign Josh Hamilton for 4 years.

    This is kinda why I don’t buy that their in on Hamilton all that seriously.

  46. G. Love December 7th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    blake,

    If Hamilton made a run at 61 in the Bronx, the place would explode.

    Every baseball fan out there looks at the guys who hit more than 61 as fake.

    I think, it could be, more exciting for baseball than the McGwire/Sosa nonsense was when it happened.

    Could you imagine all the hand-wringing and pontificating from the media if he was getting close.

  47. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    jacksquat December 7th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    So far I’ve only heard 3 years from both the Texas and Seattle. That’s probably a starting position, so I guess they could go up to 4. I see no reason to go to 5 from the Yankees.

    ————————-

    We need to start acting more like a honey badger… preferably one trained by Chuck Norris / 2009′d

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

  48. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Please, NO Homer Gammons. That guy is an absolute Fountain of Misinformation. Has been for years.

  49. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Just to put all this in perspective, Hamilton is Texas’ Plan B.

    Remember when we were that team?

  50. thewarrior82 December 7th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Sign Hamilton to 4 year deal, trade Cano & Granderson. Get it done !!

  51. Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Pete Abraham ?@PeteAbe
    Spoke to Robbie Cano earlier today. He is fine with the idea of Youkilis joining the #Yankees. Laughed about putting his locker next to Joba

  52. SoS December 7th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    “Hamilton could probably break Maris’ single season record clean in Yankee Stadium.”

    ========

    Sure he can. But the real question here is can he bunt for a single and frame a pop fly catch?

  53. pat December 7th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    “Having Hamilton in a clubhouse with guys like Jeter, Mo & Pettitte still there gives me zero worries.”

    If Derek, Mo or Andy are able to cure addiction, they are wasting their talents playing baseball.

  54. jacksquat December 7th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Baseball people suggest Hamilton and agent Michael Moye are still holding out for a six or seven-year contract worth $25MM or so per season, ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark reports.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#5CmMPCyxb1sqUl1c.99

    I wouldn’t go anywhere near that.

  55. bruceb December 7th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Pete Abraham ?@PeteAbe
    Spoke to Robbie Cano earlier today. He is fine with the idea of Youkilis joining the #Yankees. Laughed about putting his locker next to Job

    Well I’m not and it seems a lot of other Yankees fans aren’t either. More and more we’re seeing that the only people loyal to a club are the fans and the players will play ANYWHERE for the king’s shilling, regardless of past history. That’s why we could end up seeing Youkilis in pinstripes next year and Joba throwing at the head of Nick Swisher. Seriously weird.

  56. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 7th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    G Love/blake,

    What I love about you two is the fact that you acknowledge that Maris, and not McGwire, Sosa, or Bonds’ scumbag cheating selves, is still the owner of the single season home run record. Still the Bronx where it belongs!!!

  57. SoS December 7th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    What is a Yankee hater, a wolf in sheeps clothing Peter Abe doing talking to Cano? The second he left to his pats/sox home, we won our 27th. Lets keep it that way.

  58. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Pete Abraham ?@PeteAbe
    Spoke to Robbie Cano earlier today. He is fine with the idea of Youkilis joining the #Yankees. Laughed about putting his locker next to Joba

    ———————–

    Too bad I couldn’t see this tweet because Pete Abe blocked me for laughing at a joke… I mean, the joke was at his expense but my goodness what a sensitive soul he is.

  59. SoS December 7th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    That’s why we could end up seeing Youkilis in pinstripes next year and Joba throwing at the head of Nick Swisher. Seriously weird.

    =======

    Im just affraid that Youkilis would go on the dl before the season even started from taking one in the dome from Joba in spring training.

  60. Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Too bad I couldn’t see this tweet because Pete Abe blocked me for laughing at a joke… I mean, the joke was at his expense but my goodness what a sensitive soul he is.

    What was the joke?

  61. blake December 7th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    “Could you imagine him and Cano back to back. *wipes drool*”

    I think I’d actually sandwich Tex between them to help prevent teams from LOOGYing late in games…..but yea it’d be awesome.

    G. Love,

    it would be incredible…..I want to see it!!

  62. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 7th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    bruceb,

    Do you have an issue with the Yankees signing Youk having played for the Sox?

    I don’t know why you would. I mean, I detested Damon when he was on the Sox, but it was a good signing at the time and he gave us a lot (at least at the plate).

    These guys know how to win, that’s the most important thing.

  63. DaSaint007 December 7th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Because I don’t think that Cano will get a 10 year, or even 8 year contract @>$20M a year next season, at least from the Yankees, I think it would be a great move to sign Hamilton to a 4-year deal.

    Granderson is not going to garner the same haul that Cano would, so (sadly) I’d try to trade Cano now, which should net at least 1 major-league ready player and 2 good prospects. I’d still try to trade Granderson, which should net 2 minor and re-sign Ichiro. I’ll live with an OF of Hamilton, Gardner, and Ichiro.

  64. thewarrior82 December 7th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Question – I’ve heard news the Yanks are shopping Hughes and Nova – so who replaces them if that happens ?

  65. blake December 7th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Baseball people suggest Hamilton and agent Michael Moye are still holding out for a six or seven-year contract worth $25MM or so per season, ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark reports.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#5CmMPCyxb1sqUl1c.99

    unless the Dodgers trade an outfielder and jump in then that’s not happening IMO…..he might get 5 from somebody but can’t see anything beyond that…..which is why the Yankees should sign him.

  66. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    Too bad I couldn’t see this tweet because Pete Abe blocked me for laughing at a joke… I mean, the joke was at his expense but my goodness what a sensitive soul he is.

    What was the joke?

    —————

    Doc was telling me, on Twitter, how Pete blocked him for calling him fat… so I laughed. I didn’t even participate by adding anything insulting, I just thought it was hysterical that Doc got blocked for it.

    Pete must have been connected to the tweet.. either that or he searches his name, which wouldn’t surprise me, and must have blocked me for it.

  67. CB December 7th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    I’d like to say that I’m feeling positive about the notion of signing Hamilton – but I’m honestly not. Very mixed at best.

    First, it’s difficult to put much value in these reports. If anything if the Yankees are only now beginning their background check on Hamilton now – it’s incompetence. This kind of signing should’ve been planned a year ago.

    Outside of that, if the Yanks were to sign Hamilton it wouldn’t be for baseball reasons. It would like be due to Randy Levine convincing Hal the the peasants are unhappy and that if they don’t “make a splash” there’s won’t be anyone there to eat cake in a stadium adorned with empty seats.

    The prospect of Randy Levine making critical decisions for the Yankees simply isn’t a good one. It could “pay off” in the very short term but it’s an awful indicator for where this team is and it’s future.

    The other big thing here is that the Yankee honestly aren’t signing Hamilton here as a free agent. At least not the way they used to. Not under the “189M or bust” regime.

    If the Yankees “sign” Hamilton it really is going to function more like a two part trade. 1) They’d be “trading” 25% or so of their discretionary dollars in 2014 (and on) for the right to sign Hamilton (IIRC they have roughly 100M in commitments for ’14? If not just adjust the % – it’s still going to be high). 2) if they sign Hamilton they won’t sign Cano.

    So in essence this “free agent signing” is functionally a trade. They receive Hamilton. The trade away 25% of their opportunity resources in 2014 & the “option” of keeping Cano.

    Now in theory Hamilton for 4 yrs could in theory be better than Cano for 8/200. But it really depends on how much Hamilton costs.

    I also see him getting a better deal than 4 yrs. But who knows.

    And even more so – it depends on their likely performance. Cano is more sound hitter than Hamilton is (as long as we assume/believe his struggles vs LH pitching this season were an anomaly). Both Cano & Hamilton have real risks for aging poorly – but Hamilton is even more so.

    Now the 3rd layer of this is where we actually get to the substantive issues of baseball. I really haven’t liked some of the things I’ve seen from Hamilton. Obviously this past season was particularly concerning – but even dating to the season before.

    There are times this season when I watched Hamilton and thought – he’d fit in perfectly on the Yanks. LH power hitter with a decline in bat speed who can look utterly clueless against off speed stuff out of the zone. He’s perfect.

    Josh Hamilton is just so utterly dependent on bat speed to be good. If it truly is declining all it’s going to take is a small decrement and he’ll have a major drop off in performance. Cano has a similar issue – but with Hamilton it’s even more pronounced.

    Now signing Hamilton while Cano is on the team for 2013 clearly makes a major impact. But with the holes at 3rd and catcher and the aging at other spots the team would still not be any kind of definitive favorite to win in 2013.

    I don’t know. The yanks have basically painted themselves into a bad position by their past actions (not signing Holliday is simply killing them right now…, etc.).

    I’d prefer they potentially waste money on Hamilton than make an awful trade with the kids but this signing is going to come at a real cost and will carry significant risk.

  68. blake December 7th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    “Question – I’ve heard news the Yanks are shopping Hughes and Nova – so who replaces them if that happens ?”

    there are lots of mid and back rotation types left out there…..I said yesterday that I’d offer Hughes a 3 or 4 year extension for 7 or 8 million a year….if he turned it down then I’d trade him and offer the same deal to Edwin Jackson

  69. chicken little December 7th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    To me, what Hal needs to decide in the next day or so (if he hasn’t already) is: am I so determined to save $50 million that winning, good will, etc … be damned and a budget is a budget is a budget or am I, recognizing that the best way to put a winning product on the field is to go after some of the bigger names available now (whether its Hamilton or someone by trade) and tell Levine and Cash that they better be right this time and not screw up his payroll again by making silly signings. If Hamilton, Grienke, etc … is who they want, do it (at the best deal possible), make every effort to stay in budget and don’t waste my time with silly signings of silly players for long term deals that don’t work out. A-Rod was a lesson for all of us. Don’t screw up again.

  70. BoJo December 7th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    jacksquat December 7th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Baseball people suggest Hamilton and agent Michael Moye are still holding out for a six or seven-year contract worth $25MM or so per season, ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark reports.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#5CmMPCyxb1sqUl1c.99

    I wouldn’t go anywhere near that.
    ==========
    Heck, sign him to 10 years with an out clause if he tests positive for drugs, then spike his Gatorade before a random test when his numbers decline, or the team needs salary flexibility,

    Heck, why do we fans always have to figure out the details?!?!?

  71. raymagnetic December 7th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    “The Mad Prince in Pinstripes says:
    December 7, 2012 at 12:49 pm
    G Love/blake,

    What I love about you two is the fact that you acknowledge that Maris, and not McGwire, Sosa, or Bonds’ scumbag cheating selves, is still the owner of the single season home run record. Still the Bronx where it belongs!!!”

    How do you know Maris was clean?

    Bonds is the record holder of both HR records and he’s going to the HOF. Oh well.

  72. Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Haha that’s rough Shame. You would think that someone so large would have thicker skin.

    Seriously though, I know Pete gets a lot of crap around here but I still like him, he did a good job when he was here.

  73. thewarrior82 December 7th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    blake December 7th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
    “Question – I’ve heard news the Yanks are shopping Hughes and Nova – so who replaces them if that happens ?”

    there are lots of mid and back rotation types left out there…..I said yesterday that I’d offer Hughes a 3 or 4 year extension for 7 or 8 million a year….if he turned it down then I’d trade him and offer the same deal to Edwin Jackson

    Blake – but doesn’t a mid rotation type cost basically what Hughes would get? Hughes will make about 5.5 mill this yr, which is cheap for 15-18 wins.

  74. Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    I’d prefer they potentially waste money on Hamilton than make an awful trade with the kids but this signing is going to come at a real cost and will carry significant risk.

    They will probably do neither in my opinion.

  75. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS

    People who played with youk says he like the boston spotlight and would find #yankees attractive. Plus, they obvs like him.

    ————–

    Who is ‘they’?????

  76. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    “I’d like to say that I’m feeling positive about the notion of signing Hamilton – but I’m honestly not. Very mixed at best.”

    oh come around more often CB and I will brain wash you :)

  77. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    FeinsandNYDN

    I’m not disputing the idea that the Yankees have reversed course before. But Hamilton concerns are about more than just $$$. I don’t see it.

    Buzz kill, thy name is Feinsand.

  78. AAA December 7th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    I said yesterday that I’d offer Hughes a 3 or 4 year extension for 7 or 8 million a year….if he turned it down…..

    ====================================

    I’m not the biggest fan of Hughes, but I might have a tough time saying “Here’s Jeremy Guthrie money. Take it or leave it”.

  79. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    “Blake – but doesn’t a mid rotation type cost basically what Hughes would get? Hughes will make about 5.5 mill this yr, which is cheap for 15-18 win”

    I’d rather keep Hughes to be honest because I like what I saw out of him last year…..and I’d rather extend him if it can be done affordably……the problem is that he’s a FA at the end of the year and if he repeats his 2012 or better then he’s gonna cost a lot of money to keep……

    so I think they should offer him a team friendly extension…..and if he declines then I think you see if you can trade him and replace him in the current rotation with somebody for about the same money you wanted to spend on Hughes. Then you have the value you traded Hughes for….and a pitcher to replace him with.

  80. Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Haha I knew the Angels signed Joe Blanton but I just read that it was for 2 yrs $15 million. He is bad why would they do this

  81. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Haha that’s rough Shame. You would think that someone so large would have thicker skin.

    Seriously though, I know Pete gets a lot of crap around here but I still like him, he did a good job when he was here.

    ————–

    I thought so too, actually and that’s why I’m so miffed he blocked me lol!! I’ve never been one to trash talk him. I liked what he brought to the blog, overall.

  82. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Haha I knew the Angels signed Joe Blanton but I just read that it was for 2 yrs $15 million. He is bad why would they do this
    ————-

    Think about this:

    The Angels went from a rotation of Greinke, Weaver, Wilson, Haren Santana to Weaver, Wilson, Blanton, Hanson and who knows

    Not exactly upgrades

  83. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    I’ve waffled on Hughes for years, but randy was right when he was pushing for them to talk extension after Hughes had a down year.

  84. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    “Both Cano & Hamilton have real risks for aging poorly – but Hamilton is even more so.”

    I agree with this….but IF and only if they can sign him for 4 years then I’d prefer to do that than bid against LA and everyone else for Cano’s services.

    You’d be looking at a 4 year deal for Hamilton starting in 2013….vs probably an 8 or 9 year deal for Cano starting in 2014.

    If Cano stays healthy then I don’t see any way he doesn’t get 200 million…..Boras is a master and he probably just can’t wait to pit NY and LA against each other…..

  85. thewarrior82 December 7th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    Blake

    I see what you’re saying but I do not agree that 15-18 game winners can be had for 5-8 mill a year. Kuroda got 15, that’s the going rate.

  86. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    “I’m not the biggest fan of Hughes, but I might have a tough time saying “Here’s Jeremy Guthrie money. Take it or leave it””

    why? you offer something thats affordable….you don’t sign a guy with Hughes’s injury history a year early for market value……

  87. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Boras could live the rest of his life off the money he made on the Arod deal…

  88. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    I like the idea of Hamilton, but like Chad I think it’s a long shot on the kind of numbers being thrown around (4 year deal) and if it goes longer then it could easily be a catastrophe.

    I certainly like the idea of Hamilton at 4 years more than the idea of Cano at 8 years.

    And yes, I think that the Yankees should inquire about dealing for David DeJesus.

  89. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    randy wasn’t the only one pushing the point either.. he’s just the only one I remember lol.

  90. CB December 7th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    “They will probably do neither in my opinion.”

    Patrick,

    I’d guess that is probably their first choice inclination. But I don’t know if it will stand up to the discontent that they seem to be underestimating.

    I also think they wouldn’t hesitate to trade prospects in order to appease the fans and keep up enough of a pretense to retain ticket sales.

  91. Bronx Jeers December 7th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    I don’t think it’s the peasants as much as the “Stadium Elite” that the guys like Levine/Trost are worrying about.

    The new stadium was built with these people in mind. How are the Yanks supposed to retain/attract these people without stars?

  92. AAA December 7th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    why? you offer something thats affordable….you don’t sign a guy with Hughes’s injury history a year early for market value……

    =====================================

    Fair enough. More to the point, I guess, would be that I don’t envision any scenario in which Hughes would accept such a deal.

  93. G. Love December 7th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    ray,

    I haven’t responded to you in years, because I know with you it always leans racial as you’ve called people racists in here many many times over the years.

    You want to celebrate Bonds’ HR achievements go right ahead. There’s a table for one waiting for you in the Grand Canyon.

    And if you think Maris was on anything approaching the drugs that Bonds was on I guess he must’ve had access to the DeLorean from Back to the Future.

    Bonds was a far better hitter than Maris ever was, but Bonds destroyed his reputation in the game with the PED abuse and didn’t come close to breaking any HR records until he grew to the size of The Rock holding a drumstick in his hand at the plate.

  94. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    “I’m not the biggest fan of Hughes, but I might have a tough time saying “Here’s Jeremy Guthrie money. Take it or leave it””

    why? you offer something thats affordable….you don’t sign a guy with Hughes’s injury history a year early for market value……
    —————–

    If Hughes rejects the offer do you deal him or do you just give him a QO at the end of the season?

  95. Tyler December 7th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    I’m starting to become more and more resigned to the fact that this will be Cano’s last season in pinstripes….

  96. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    thewarrior82 says:
    December 7, 2012 at 1:08 pm
    Blake

    I see what you’re saying but I do not agree that 15-18 game winners can be had for 5-8 mill a year. Kuroda got 15, that’s the going rate.

    I think Jackson might accept a deal similar to the one Id want Hughes to take……

  97. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    I still believe the best chance for dealing Granderson is if Hamilton leaves Texas and the Upton deal falls through.

  98. bruceb December 7th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 7th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
    bruceb,

    Do you have an issue with the Yankees signing Youk having played for the Sox?

    I know it happens – a lot these days. It’s just that I’ve always looked upon Youkilis as the enemy of all enemies. I may have a sneaking admiration for his grit – and he’s a player who had made the most of his ability – but I don’t like his personality. Plus there’s the fact that he’s married to Tom Brady’s sister and I can’t stand the Pats either!

  99. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    When you got Sherman mentioning the Oct. attendance and lack of enthusiasm in Yankee Stadium, the Pressure is mounting. “No man is an island”.

  100. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Tyler December 7th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    I’m starting to become more and more resigned to the fact that this will be Cano’s last season in pinstripes….
    ——————–

    Nah, I think the Yankees will give him a stupid 8 year deal that they’ll regret by year 3.

    It will however be the last year in pinstripes for Granderson, Hughes and Joba.

  101. CB December 7th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    “oh come around more often CB and I will brain wash you ”

    Sadly, I’d be more than willing to be follow oh great leader….

    It’s just that Hamilton pulling off breaking stuff low and away over and over and over made me feel like I was watching a long lost yankee as it was…

  102. BoJo December 7th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    It seems weird to realize that Hal’s elf on the shelf is Randy Levine

  103. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    “If Hughes rejects the offer do you deal him or do you just give him a QO at the end of the season?”

    Depends on what I can get for him and what I can replace him with… Like I said if I can get good value for Hughes and Jackson would sign a deal similar to the one Hughes turned down ( he may not) then Id consider that

  104. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    bruceb December 7th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 7th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
    bruceb,

    Do you have an issue with the Yankees signing Youk having played for the Sox?

    I know it happens – a lot these days. It’s just that I’ve always looked upon Youkilis as the enemy of all enemies. I may have a sneaking admiration for his grit – and he’s a player who had made the most of his ability – but I don’t like his personality. Plus there’s the fact that he’s married to Tom Brady’s sister and I can’t stand the Pats either!
    ——————

    Sorry, everything pales after them getting Roger Clemens.

  105. chicken little December 7th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    At his best, Phil Hughes is a 15-18 game winner with a 4+ ERA. Those types get between 10-15 million a year. At his age, probably on a 4 year deal. May make sense to trade him if the Yanks don’t want to pay it.

  106. G. Love December 7th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    CB,

    If you had to choose between Hamilton or Swisher not thinking about contract dollars which way do you go?

  107. Jerkface December 7th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    You want to celebrate Bonds’ HR achievements go right ahead. There’s a table for one waiting for you in the Grand Canyon.

    Room for one more here, Bonds is the greatest hitter of all time and the HR king.

  108. AAA December 7th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    If Hughes rejects the offer do you deal him or do you just give him a QO at the end of the season?

    =====================================

    Probably, yeah. Comes with the risk that he says YES and totally jams the team’s $189M objective, but if he’s saying no to a 3 year deal, he’s not apt to take 1, even at $13M. If he has something close to the year he had in 2012, I think he can get something on the order of 4/$50ish on the market.

  109. CB December 7th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    “If Cano stays healthy then I don’t see any way he doesn’t get 200 million…..Boras is a master and he probably just can’t wait to pit NY and LA against each other…..”

    Agree with this as well. And there’s no way that you can give him that deal.

    The Yanks have been operating under an old model of doing business while the industry has changed all around them.

  110. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    “If Hughes rejects the offer do you deal him or do you just give him a QO at the end of the season?”

    Depends on what I can get for him and what I can replace him with… Like I said if I can get good value for Hughes and Jackson would sign a deal similar to the one Hughes turned down ( he may not) then Id consider that
    —————–

    Ed Jackson is AJ Burnett – even if they dealt Hughes I would sooner go with David Phelps than offer Jackson a contract.

    You would have to figure that if he turns it down then the decision to trade him would be based on whether or not the Yankees would be comfortable giving Hughes a QO. If they don’t want him at that kind of money then you have to deal him as opposed to just letting him walk for nothing.

  111. jacksquat December 7th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    I think the chances are very high that the Dodgers are going to outbid the Yankees for Cano next year.

  112. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    CB,

    I get ya….it would be risky for sure.

    Part of the reason I feel like I do about it is because I think 2013 may be the Yanks best shot at a title for awhile and Id like to see them to for it….

    I would love for them to be able to trade for the answer….but I don’t know if they have the pieces ….

    So my thinking is that if they can get Hamilton for significantly less years than Cano will command….then perhaps they should do I and have them both in 2013 and just let Cano go to LA for eleven billion dollars next year

  113. thewarrior82 December 7th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Blake

    So your answer is Edwin Jackson ? When he pitched in the AL East he was a chump, do not forget that. There’s a reason he hasn’t latched on to a team this far into his pitching career. He’s mediocre at best, I’d rather keep Hughes at least at the very least he’s a dominant multi inning reliever. I think this season he breaks out, I really like what I saw with the slider he’s now using.

  114. AAA December 7th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Room for one more here, Bonds is the greatest hitter of all time and the HR king.

    ========================

    Ditto.

    Besides, if Hamilton did sign, I don’t see him as a threat to that record anyway. He’s played in cushy homerun parks his entire career and hasn’t reached 45, and he’s not a pull hitter. Less than a 1/3 of his hits and homers have been pulled to right. Other thing is he’s more apt to play 125 games than he is 155. I’d still take him on a 4 year deal, but wouldn’t be counting on him challenging Maris.

  115. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    “Ed Jackson is AJ Burnett – even if they dealt Hughes I would sooner go with David Phelps than offer Jackson a contract.”

    AJ Burnett was pretty good when he was 28

  116. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    It wouldn’t be popular – but even without Hamilton they could deal Cano and Granderson and Hughes for young major leaguers and major league ready talent and extend their window for winning while at the same time easily achieving $189 M. Might hurt this year, but would set things up for the next 10.

  117. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Incidentally, the thing that’s going to screw up the Yankees for 2014 is if Jeter has a strong year, opts out of his contract and asks for a new long term deal.

  118. chicken little December 7th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Whether or not the yanks retain cano will depend on whether or not hal is willing to “win” a bidding war with the dodgers and any other team involved. george always was. remember there really have been no bidding wars for hal yet. no one offered as much as the yanks for cc, atl offered about the same as yanks for burnett, and tex preferred yanks to bos (and they offered around the same anyway). times have now changed and there are more teams that can afford a mega deal and the dodgers have an unlimited budget it seems. to me, if hal isn’t willing to pay top dollar he should tell cash to trade cano now. i fail to see how the uncertainty of a draft pick is better than several prospects already in development (better chance at least one of four solid prospects turns out good than a draft pick years away from the majors).

  119. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    The Yanks have been operating under an old model of doing business while the industry has changed all around them.
    ——————

    When did the Yankees become like record companies….

  120. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    “The Yanks have been operating under an old model of doing business while the industry has changed all around them.”

    Yes…they should have negotiated an extension with Cano 2 years ago

  121. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    “Ed Jackson is AJ Burnett – even if they dealt Hughes I would sooner go with David Phelps than offer Jackson a contract.”

    AJ Burnett was pretty good when he was 28
    ————————

    The only thing consistent about AJ’s career was his inconsistency. Same can be said for Jackson (and Hughes for that matter) I wouldn’t trust him.

  122. G. Love December 7th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Jerkface,

    I think Bonds was one of the best hitters & players ever, but his PED use was ridiculous along with the rest of MLB who used during that time. There’s a reason why 40-something players are already retired yet during his career and time period they got better, bigger and stronger.

    As far as I’m concerned and many fans are concerned, Aaron is the HR king. Maris owns the single season record.

    What happened in the late 90′s and early 2000′s was fueled by drugs that weren’t available in the game prior to that. If there wasn’t something wrong with it, they wouldn’t have begun testing for it and banning it.

  123. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    “The Yanks have been operating under an old model of doing business while the industry has changed all around them.”

    Yes…they should have negotiated an extension with Cano 2 years ago
    ———————-

    And probably shouldn’t have publicly embarrassed Boras when he suggested it.

  124. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    jacksquat December 7th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    I think the chances are very high that the Dodgers are going to outbid the Yankees for Cano next year.

    ——————

    I keep wondering if they’ll be in on Hughes too… I mean, the Dodgers are in on ALL the players so I suppose that’s not a stretch..

  125. pat December 7th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    terrypluto
    I checked on the report of the 2-year, $18M Tribe offer to Youk. It could be a little higher than $18M for 2.

  126. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 7th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    raymagnetic,

    no offense, but if you consider Bonds the record holder, you don’t care at all about the integrity of baseball.

    Maris, at worst, used greenies which is little more than an amphetamine. Willie Mays did too. I don’t condone the use, but I do believe there is a vast difference between using PEDs that are designed to build muscle, not to mention they’re synthetic and designed to evade testing. That’s cheating with steroids, dude.

  127. G. Love December 7th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    The Dodgers are going to sign everyone and field an A & B team next year.

  128. CB December 7th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    “If you had to choose between Hamilton or Swisher not thinking about contract dollars which way do you go?”

    G. Love,

    Independent of contract – Hamilton is a much bigger talent. Even with the potential diminishment in his skil set.

    That said- I’d also feel better about being able to gauge what I’d get from Swisher than Hamilton-even in the short term.

    It’s an interesting comparison as they are polar opposites in many ways.

    I understand the excitement about Hamilton particularly in the context of what’s going on with team operating margins.

    I wish I could get on board. But I really can’t. And I do worry that if Hamilton were to come Yankee fans will turn on him in a big way and do so quickly.

    If Yankee fans thing Swisher, Granderson or even Cano are inconsistent/ streaky – wait until they see Hamilton.

    When he’s bad – it’s shockingly bad. Not only the results he produces but his at bats. They are just putrid tbh. To the point where it looks like he’s not even trying or has no clue what to do up at the plate. I don’t think that’s true in any case – but that’s how it looks on the surface. He has mind bogglingly bad at bats.

    If this happens I hope my worries are just that – without substance. But from what I’ve seen from him he makes me very uncertain. And that’s just the baseball side of the equation.

    This is a guy who has been so blessed with talent he really hasn’t been forced to learn and adjust to the game the way most players have – even all star caliber players. It’s not that he’s lazy or hasn’t worked or isn’t smart. I just think he’s operated at such a rarefied plane of talent that it almost has to be difficult for him in a way to do the kind of things needed to make adjustments in his game.

    Hamilton’s potential to disappoint exceeds anything we’ve seen from Teixeira. And he’ll come in with higher expectations and more marketing focus.

  129. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    And probably shouldn’t have publicly embarrassed Boras when he suggested it.

    ——————

    I still scratch my head at that one… so, so foolish. But this is why I’m left wondering what the plan was, if there was one, and if Brian thought he’d still be able to spend this year and just not next year.

  130. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Tyler December 7th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    I’m starting to become more and more resigned to the fact that this will be Cano’s last season in pinstripes….

    ——————–

    That’s what it looks like to be honest with you.

  131. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 7th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Shame Spencer,

    This is Cano’s last year in New York.

    Giving him a 10 year deal worth $200M plus is irresponsible for the Yankees to do in light of ARod. Even if Arod’s steroid use is in fact contributing to his rapid decline, that contract never should have been offered to a guy who will be 41 or 42 by the time it terms.

    That’s why I was lobbying to deal him now while we can still get something quantifiable back instead of one crappy draft pick.

  132. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    “so your answer is Edwin Jackson ? ”

    no…not specifically….he was just an example….although I do think he’s somewhat undervalued as a guy that’s only 28 years old and has been pretty consistent as a 200ish inning and 4ish ERA guy.

  133. thewarrior82 December 7th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Blake

    I kinda see what you’re saying about Hughes, but right now Hughes potential is there and we know what Edwin is and he’s more expensive than Hughes. So what are you getting to? They should sign Hughes to a 3-4 yr deal.

  134. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    “The Yanks have been operating under an old model of doing business while the industry has changed all around them.”

    Yes…they should have negotiated an extension with Cano 2 years ago
    ———————-

    And probably shouldn’t have publicly embarrassed Boras when he suggested it.

    ———————–

    What did they say again? Refresh my memory

  135. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Tyler December 7th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    I’m starting to become more and more resigned to the fact that this will be Cano’s last season in pinstripes….

    ——————–

    That’s what it looks like to be honest with you.
    —————-

    if the alternative is an 8 year contract – I would say it’s probably the better way to go.

  136. AAA December 7th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Whether or not the yanks retain cano will depend on whether or not hal is willing to “win” a bidding war with the dodgers and any other team involved.

    ============================================

    As Cano has been with the Yankees his entire career, and they have treated him quite well, I’d like to think he’d stay with the Yankees if the Yankees are in the ballpark with the best offers he sees. I’m not saying he’d take 75 cents on the dollar to stay with them (nor should he), but something similar to the Bernie Williams situation where he took less from the Yankees than what the Red Sox offered, but not ridiculously less.

  137. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    CB,

    I understand where you’re coming from Re: Hamilton…..my thinking though is that if they really can get him for 4 years (which is half the term on Tex) and he could maintain close to an elite level of production for just half that contract then it’d be worth it……

    The Yanks window is closing IMO….it’s hard to see how they’ll compete in 2014 barring some very slick trades by Cashman or the farm system just exploding on the scene next year…..

  138. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Tyler December 7th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    I’m starting to become more and more resigned to the fact that this will be Cano’s last season in pinstripes….

    ——————–

    That’s what it looks like to be honest with you.
    —————-

    if the alternative is an 8 year contract – I would say it’s probably the better way to go.
    —————-

    Then they have to replace his production. What are the chances they sign Hamilton and then let Cano walk.

  139. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    “The Yanks have been operating under an old model of doing business while the industry has changed all around them.”

    Yes…they should have negotiated an extension with Cano 2 years ago
    ———————-

    And probably shouldn’t have publicly embarrassed Boras when he suggested it.

    ———————–

    What did they say again? Refresh my memory
    —————–

    a rumor leaked after Cano hired Boras that he (Boras) was hoping to engage the Yankees in talks about tearing up the option years and folding them into a new long-term deal. Instead of letting it go Cashman came out and said that they had no interest in doing so and that he was delusional to think they would – which led Boras to have to come out and say that he was “joking” about the extension talks. Fast forward two years and with the Yankees facing financial constraints, Boras wields his own power by saying Cano won’t take a hometown discount to stay in New York

  140. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    “I kinda see what you’re saying about Hughes, but right now Hughes potential is there and we know what Edwin is and he’s more expensive than Hughes. So what are you getting to? They should sign Hughes to a 3-4 yr deal.”

    Im saying I’d offer Hughes a 3-4 year deal first and if he rejected it then you could trade him and offer the same thing to Jackson…..who may or may not take it but would likely give you similar production.

  141. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Tyler December 7th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    I’m starting to become more and more resigned to the fact that this will be Cano’s last season in pinstripes….

    ——————–

    That’s what it looks like to be honest with you.
    —————-

    if the alternative is an 8 year contract – I would say it’s probably the better way to go.
    —————-

    Then they have to replace his production. What are the chances they sign Hamilton and then let Cano walk.
    ————

    I’ve said it for a few days now. If Hamilton would take 4 years I sign him to that and then deal Cano to get some young talent for multiple spots.

  142. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Thank you Chip so in conclusion the Yankees/Cashman dug their own grave.

  143. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    “As Cano has been with the Yankees his entire career, and they have treated him quite well, I’d like to think he’d stay with the Yankees if the Yankees are in the ballpark with the best offers he sees.”

    maybe so….but the whole point is would it be a good idea? If the Dodgers offer 9/230 or something and he’ll come to the Yankees for 8/200…..then still would that be a good idea to do assuming they are staying on this budget? I’d say probably not…..

  144. G. Love December 7th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    CB,

    If anything, Yankees fans are now used to see massive inconsistencies in the offensive players. Really, outside of Jeter last season, there wasn’t one truly consistent bat on the team. Swisher saw his average go up & down and didn’t even have 20 HR’s going into the final weeks/month of the season. Tex is always batting between .220 and .250 it seems. Grandy kept his power but did little else at the plate.

    I think the thing about Hamilton, to me, is he’s better than Swisher and he can make up for Swisher’s HR’s and probably Martin’s HR’s in one player. It gives the Yankees some cover over what they’ve lost. I also think he’s a true middle of the order threat on a team right now that has Cano and no one else to fill that spot.

    I totally get what you’re saying though about his aging. I don’t see him enough to know if he’s close to his decline. I see Cano enough to know I have no problem with the Yankees giving him 8 years as I think he can evolve into a Big Papi DH late in his career as a Yankee.

    I do think though when you look at the team and what’s out there, Hamilton fits this group like a glove. You have a veteran pitching staff that is one of the best in the league and a lineup missing a middle of the order threat.

    I do think if they sign him it’s the Yankees admitting that 189 isn’t going to happen and they’ll pay the tax.

    If they’re dead set on 189, it’ll never happen and we’ll probably lose Cano on top of it.

    I think right now there has to be some real debate and number crunching going on with the Yankees deciding if they stick to 189 or put the best team on the field while they still can.

  145. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    CB,

    been wanting to ask you this…..if You’re John Daniels….do you cave and give Andrus for Upton or do you just keep both of your SS’s ?

  146. SoS December 7th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Off topic question to all.
    My son started freshman wrestling this year and he wants to pack on more muscle. He already lifts weights and takes some protein. I used to take creatine but never drank enough water and it started to effect my kidneys. Im affraid to give him it for that reason. Is there anything you guys would recommend him taking besides what bonds takes and the shakes that Ortiz loves? He wants to go up to the next weight class so his friend can have a starting spot at where hes at. Thanks in advance.

  147. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Tyler December 7th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    I’m starting to become more and more resigned to the fact that this will be Cano’s last season in pinstripes….

    ——————–

    That’s what it looks like to be honest with you.
    —————-

    if the alternative is an 8 year contract – I would say it’s probably the better way to go.
    —————-

    Then they have to replace his production. What are the chances they sign Hamilton and then let Cano walk.
    ————

    I’ve said it for a few days now. If Hamilton would take 4 years I sign him to that and then deal Cano to get some young talent for multiple spots.

    —————

    Only thing is we know the Yankees wouldn’t do it.

  148. Duh Innings II December 7th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    LGY December 7th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    A Bad defensive Catcher will Absolutely Kill a team.

    ———————–

    Posada really killed them all those years.

    ———————–

    I know. A pair of World Series championships (2000 and 2009) sandwiched around a pair of pennants (2001 and 2009) with another WSC before all that (1999.) He really sucked, didn’t he? ;)

    Hamilton is a headcase. New York is one of the worst places for a guy like him to be. See Lindsay Lohan who is already in trouble here (assault charge.)

    C – Austin Romine
    1B – Jesus Montero (Trade Teixiera and half his remaining salary to Seattle for him.)
    2B – Cano
    3B – David Adams
    SS – Jeter
    LF – Ronnier Mustelier (Trade Granderson for prospects including an outfielder who could replace Mustellier or Austin if either struggle.)
    CF – Gardner
    RF – Tyler Austin
    DH – Nunez

  149. Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    been wanting to ask you this…..if You’re John Daniels….do you cave and give Andrus for Upton or do you just keep both of your SS’s ?

    Andrus is worth more than Upton right now so why not do Andrus for Upton + something else?

  150. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 7th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Shame Spencer,

    This is Cano’s last year in New York.

    Giving him a 10 year deal worth $200M plus is irresponsible for the Yankees to do in light of ARod.

    ——————–

    It really isn’t.. he’d be the only guy signed in those last few years.. it would just be tough getting through 2016 on a budget with the other big contracts.

  151. SoS December 7th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    I have no problem with the Yankees giving him 8 years as I think he can evolve into a Big Papi DH late in his career as a Yankee.

    =======

    I think hes already evolving into Big Papi.
    http://bronxbaseballdaily.com/.....h-a-beard/

  152. chicken little December 7th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    “As Cano has been with the Yankees his entire career, and they have treated him quite well, I’d like to think he’d stay with the Yankees if the Yankees are in the ballpark with the best offers he sees.”

    maybe so….but the whole point is would it be a good idea? If the Dodgers offer 9/230 or something and he’ll come to the Yankees for 8/200…..then still would that be a good idea to do assuming they are staying on this budget? I’d say probably not…..
    ———————–

    Agree with both. My point is — if Hal is not willing to win a bidding war, does it really make sense to keep cano now in the hope he accepts less than the dodgers (or another team) offer. I mean realistically, offering 4 years even at 25 mil aint getting it done. if hal doesn’t want to offer 7-8 years at 25 mil (and i probably wouldn’t want to either even if there was an unlimited budget), i think it makes sense thinking long term to trade cano. i mean is it worth it for one extra year of cano to lose out on 3-4 players that can potentially help you for 4-6 years — there is a much better chance that at least one of those players pans out than the draft pick will pan out.

  153. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Thank you Chip so in conclusion the Yankees/Cashman dug their own grave.
    ————————-

    He certainly did nothing to help the situation.

  154. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    “Andrus is worth more than Upton right now so why not do Andrus for Upton + something else?”

    That’s what I’d do if I were Daniels and is probably what he is doing….he’s probably asking for Upton and Bauer or something.

  155. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Sos – If Bret were here he’d be able to help you out.

  156. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    been wanting to ask you this…..if You’re John Daniels….do you cave and give Andrus for Upton or do you just keep both of your SS’s ?

    Andrus is worth more than Upton right now so why not do Andrus for Upton + something else?
    ————–

    Upton and either Bauer or IPK for Andrus makes some sense.

  157. Patrick December 7th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    That’s what I’d do if I were Daniels and is probably what he is doing….he’s probably asking for Upton and Bauer or something.

    Yeah exactly. I think they could cut a deal that is something like Andrus + a minor prospect or two for Upton and Bauer.

  158. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Basically I think the Yankees need to think long and hard now about what to do with Cano……they don’t need to wait until a year from now and say “oh crap” the Dodgers are offering him 250 million dollars.

    He’s going to get paid a lot…..because he’s a premium player and his agent is the best in history at getting premium players paid.

    If they aren’t willing to go there because of their budget…..or if they think it’s a bad investment that they will refuse to spend out of should it go south (like Arod and Tex)….then they need to plan on letting him go and plan to replace his production now……either by signing Hamilton to a deal half a long….or by making a big trade or two somehow.

  159. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:42 pm
    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    Thank you Chip so in conclusion the Yankees/Cashman dug their own grave.
    ————————-

    He certainly did nothing to help the situation.

    —————

    Typical Cash smh lol

  160. pat December 7th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    JimBowdenESPNxm
    Indians hoping to sign Nick Swisher for 4yrs $48-$50m…but market shift has him looking for 4yrs $60m

  161. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    “Yeah exactly. I think they could cut a deal that is something like Andrus + a minor prospect or two for Upton and Bauer.’

    yea I think if UPton is traded then it’ll be something like….I don’t see the big 4 team trade happening and if he is moved it’ll be because either Texas or Atlanta caved and gave the SS that Towers wants…….

  162. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Tyler December 7th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    I’m starting to become more and more resigned to the fact that this will be Cano’s last season in pinstripes….

    ——————–

    That’s what it looks like to be honest with you.
    —————-

    if the alternative is an 8 year contract – I would say it’s probably the better way to go.
    —————-

    Then they have to replace his production. What are the chances they sign Hamilton and then let Cano walk.
    ————

    I’ve said it for a few days now. If Hamilton would take 4 years I sign him to that and then deal Cano to get some young talent for multiple spots.

    —————

    Only thing is we know the Yankees wouldn’t do it.
    ——————-

    Correct, they’re going to give Cano an 8 year contract that will turn into a millstone around their necks the same way the Rodriguez contract has.

    Again, the problem is that Cashman is doing what he’s always done and paying lip service to the changing landscape. He talks about how he’s rebuilding the farm system, developing from within, but not actually doing it. He’s shown no willingness to trust the few young players that the system has developed – trading them away or burying them behind aged veterans rather than letting them play.

  163. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    JimBowdenESPNxm
    Indians hoping to sign Nick Swisher for 4yrs $48-$50m…but market shift has him looking for 4yrs $60m

    4/60 is what I said he’d get at the end of the season…..I think it’ll be around that.

  164. chicken little December 7th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Major problem the yanks have is that cano is the only semi young power hitter not on the decline in the lineup right now. if the yanks don’t get someone else (e.g. hamilton), the yanks will be in a situation next year where losing cano (and perhaps granderson) renders the lineup a mess.

  165. Ralow December 7th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    I’d be cool with Hamilton on a huge 1 year deal…nothing long term though.

    But all this cheapness of the Yankees just solidifies the fact that George Steinbrenner is no longer our owner. He didn’t care at all about spending money…he wanted to win 1st and that was it. Steinbrenner Jr. wants to keep his money in his pocket and not subsidize the rest of the league…that’s fair but not something I’ve ever seen in my lifetime as a Yankees fan (30+ years).

    There’s a new sheriff in town…and his name’s Hal Steinbrenner (not Reggie Hammond).

  166. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    I’ve said all along that I thought the Braves should give Simmons for Upton…..I like Simmons and he’s great defensively but I’m not sure what he’ll hit utlimately…..probably a high BA guy but not a lot else…that’ll make him an all star most likely….but Upton has more potential to actually have a bigger impact IMO…..

    Simmons isn’t proven enough for me to hold out in a deal for Upton..

  167. jacksquat December 7th, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    I’d give Andrus for Upton and put profar there, but now supposedly AZ says two years of control for whatever SS they acquire is not enough.

  168. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Jon Heyman ?@JonHeymanCBS
    #yankees are still talking to ichiro. main thing today, tho, is waiting on youk.

    I don’t know why they want Youk so much….I really don’t unless they just really think he has the potential to bounce back…..I didn’t see much from him last year to suggest there was much bounce left in that hairy body

  169. Doreen December 7th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    But George hated – HATED – paying the luxury tax and revenue sharing. He just said “screw it” and spent his money anyway because no one was going to tell him what he could and couldn’t spend. But he did not like giving HIS money to other clubs.

    Right now, there is a way for the Yankees to stop giving their money away. It may hurt for a while, but they will get to a point where their money is theirs, and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if George Steinbrenner himself would not have taken advantage of this opportunity.

    We don’t know what the future holds. But isn’t it at least something to consider that teams can “win” the off-season and still not win anything at all once the games start? There is a lot of itme before the season; the only two players I would have wanted this off-season were Swisher and Martin, but I knew Swisher wouldn’t be back and even though I wanted him, 4 or 5 years for him is too long. Lots of scrubs went this week for too much money and too many years. I am glad the Yankees weren’t involved in any of it.

    Sure, you can’t pencil the Yankees in for anything right now – but I’ll be darned if I’m gonna pencil them out just yet.

  170. Triple Short of a Cycle December 7th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    Sure, you can’t pencil the Yankees in for anything right now – but I’ll be darned if I’m gonna pencil them out just yet.

    ————————————-

    They can and prob will make the playoffs but the same issues offensively that were there last year will still be there next year as well

  171. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:47 pm
    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:34 pm
    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Chip December 7th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Tyler December 7th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    I’m starting to become more and more resigned to the fact that this will be Cano’s last season in pinstripes….

    ——————–

    That’s what it looks like to be honest with you.
    —————-

    if the alternative is an 8 year contract – I would say it’s probably the better way to go.
    —————-

    Then they have to replace his production. What are the chances they sign Hamilton and then let Cano walk.
    ————

    I’ve said it for a few days now. If Hamilton would take 4 years I sign him to that and then deal Cano to get some young talent for multiple spots.

    —————

    Only thing is we know the Yankees wouldn’t do it.
    ——————-

    Correct, they’re going to give Cano an 8 year contract that will turn into a millstone around their necks the same way the Rodriguez contract has.

    Again, the problem is that Cashman is doing what he’s always done and paying lip service to the changing landscape. He talks about how he’s rebuilding the farm system, developing from within, but not actually doing it. He’s shown no willingness to trust the few young players that the system has developed – trading them away or burying them behind aged veterans rather than letting them play.

    ————–

    Very well said and then he comes out every single yr with the same lines. “We have guys down there we believe in, 10 Gms called me about this guy, this guy can play right now, etc” After a while it goes in one ear and out the next. I think fans on here feel ppl dislike Cash for no reason but that’s not the case. The farm is something he fought to get and although it has taken steps forward it’s not the pipeline he propped it up to be. And whenever they call up a kid and he struggles you can literally hear the hand wringing and groans from the FO.

    And what bothers me is when ppl call him out on the farm he catches on attitude. “People say we haven’t developed pitching that’s not true” WTF Hughes who pitched well last yr and improved as the season went on still has flaws as a pitcher. He’s the best starting pitcher of the bunch.

  172. blake December 7th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    “and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if George Steinbrenner himself would not have taken advantage of this opportunity.”

    I think he would have….but I also think he would have scrapped it if it meant not continuing to put same quality on the field.

    I think the issue is that because of the contracts they have on the books now….it’s going to be very difficult to actually get under the cap in the time frame they need to…..they just don’t have enough time to plan and maneuver…..

  173. Jerkface December 7th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    But George hated – HATED – paying the luxury tax and revenue sharing. He just said “screw it” and spent his money anyway because no one was going to tell him what he could and couldn’t spend. But he did not like giving HIS money to other clubs.

    The luxury tax doesn’t go to opposing teams it goes to the MLB future fund & player benefits, and the revenue sharing is both inevitable & the Yankees do everything in their power to reduce deductions. Hiding revenues, getting deductions from their stadium, etc.

  174. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS

    #yankees are still talking to ichiro. main thing today, tho, is waiting on youk.

  175. UnKnown December 7th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    It would be a bummer to not sign Hamilton who would immediately put the Yankees as the favorite in the A.L.

    As it is right now, (yes Cashman I know the games don’t start tomorrow) I would say it is going to be difficult to make the playoffs.

    So just this one player can change things that much. It would suck to miss out on that opportunity.

  176. DaSaint007 December 7th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Reality, they Yankees want to rebuild.
    1. They’re not going to be able to afford a Cano contract unless ARod retires and saves the team a boatload of cash. Even then, Cano is NOT getting $20M/year for 8-10 years from this team. Those days are done.
    2. Jeter’s on his last contract, irrespective of how he does.
    3. Hamilton’s value in as a stopgap as this team retools. Just don’t think he’ll accept only a 4-year deal.
    4. Now is the best chance to get a haul by trading Cano, Granderson, and maybe even Hughes or Nova. It puts 2013 in the toilet, but it saves the organization a boatload of cash, and allows them to retool now for the next several years. Use them or lose them is the phrase, and you’ll lose Granderson and Cano anyway. Same with Hughes.

    Trade Hughes to San Diego, as he’s a Cali boy, and put together that package for that 3B we need.

  177. chicken little December 7th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    major issue with getting under the cap — the prospects didn’t pan out. had the prospects panned out there would have been plenty of affordable players on the team and the yanks wouldn’t be desperate for free agents.

  178. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    I really don’t unless they just really think he has the potential to bounce back

    ——————-

    That’s probably why. They love getting guys on 1 yr deals and having them perform better than ppl think they will.

  179. DONNYBROOK December 7th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Hal ain’t The Sheriff. Hal is Henry F. (Old Man) Potter of “It’s A Wonderful Life”. Hank is Uncle Billy, and Cashman is Clarence the wingless Angel. George Bailey is Levine onna good day.

  180. PhiltheThrill December 7th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Adding Hamilton could both move attendance and the TV ratings, thus erasing any need to hit 189, since they’d be printing more money.

  181. Shame Spencer December 7th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Doreen – I think the problem is other teams closing the gap… quite a bit.

    I hate revenue sharing myself.. I’ve always thought of it as the redistribution of wealth amongst the wealthy.. but we do legitimately earn more than other clubs annually and with the Dodgers new tv deal netting them more than even we spend on our payroll, you can bet they’re going to push the envelop.

    This is really an issue of timing.. and also an issue, for me anyway, of not making any preparations last year that could have helped them not be in this position. The OF in particular.. you saw the holes coming. Why not plan in advanced?

  182. blake December 7th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Youk hit 258/.373/.459/.833 in 2011 and was still an elite level hitter in 2010….but his bat looked really slow to me last year and he just didn’t look like a player that had much left……sometimes that’s just due to the recovery from injury though.

    I would have a hard time cheering for Youk….but if Ugly can OPS .850 next year I’ll deal.

    I’d rather spend the money on a catcher though

  183. CB December 7th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    “been wanting to ask you this…..if You’re John Daniels….do you cave and give Andrus for Upton or do you just keep both of your SS’s ?”

    Blake,

    Funny you ask as I’ve been thinking about that. It’s such an interesting dilemma. Obviously all depends on what happens with Greinke and/or Hamilton.

    But on the whole – as much as I like Upton – I think if I were Daniels I’d try to use Andrus to get a more certain middle of the order bat. Upton – his fluctuating production and shoulder would make me worried.

    Honestly, if I were Daniels right now I’d try to use Andrus as the basis for making a run at Stanton. Don’t know if they’d bite but I push very hard for that. Andrus + everyone other than Profar kind of deal.

    Think the Marlins are going to have an issue with Stanton. Adrus is signed to a reasonable deal and the Marlins will likely be looking to trade Stanton in two years as it is.

  184. blake December 7th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    “Adding Hamilton could both move attendance and the TV ratings, thus erasing any need to hit 189, since they’d be printing more money.”

    this! in addition to winning more baseball games.

  185. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    You’re not getting a major haul for players on one yr deals

  186. blake December 7th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    CB,

    yea…I wouldn’t do Andrus for Upton straight up….I’d just move Kinsler to the outfield or 1B and play Profar at 2nd…..but if Towers kicked in Bauer or Skaggs then I might just do it.

  187. Triple Short of a Cycle December 7th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Why all the love for Andrus? I see a big bowl of Meh when I think of him.

  188. timmyc40 December 7th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    how is losing Swisher a big deal? Guy is a ZERO in the postseason .. enough is enough..trade Granderson too, another loser

  189. CB December 7th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    “I do think if they sign him it’s the Yankees admitting that 189 isn’t going to happen and they’ll pay the tax.”

    G.Love,

    I hear what you’re saying. It’s a difficult set of trade offs. And the arguments that you and Blake are making clearly are the other side of coin so to speak from my concerns.

    I honestly really don’t know. Hamilton is a very difficult player to judge. If he were great next season it wouldn’t surprise me at all. If he showed a real decline – wouldn’t surprise me at all. Think it really depends on how you substantively interpret his bizarre season this year. And it was such a strange season making sense of it is just plain difficult.

    If they could in theory get him for 4 yrs (which I still doubt) then it would be difficult to pass up. And what you spelled out would be logical. It finally dawns on Hal how much the opportunity cost and real risk of revenue loss will be to push to that “189M” cap.

    So if I knew signing Hamilton meant getting off 189M – then sure do it.

    But that would also make this off season make even less sense. If that’s the case – sign Keppinger, etc.

    The problem is that as it stands now Hamilton doesn’t necessarily make them better. He just makes up for lost production. Most of what he brings will make up for other holes. So it’s not even as if he’ll make the team better at the aggregate level (he would in terms of mixture of skill set and his ability to hit higher than .240).

    I just don’t think Hal will move off 189M. If they sign Hamilton I think it’s just going to mean draconian cutting in other places starting with Cano.

  190. blake December 7th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    “Why all the love for Andrus? I see a big bowl of Meh when I think of him.”

    elite defender at SS…getting better offensively…..and he’s 23 years old.

  191. Against All Odds December 7th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    blake December 7th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    “Why all the love for Andrus? I see a big bowl of Meh when I think of him.”

    elite defender at SS…getting better offensively…..and he’s 23 years old.

    ——————–

    And not even close to his prime.

  192. CB December 7th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    “yea…I wouldn’t do Andrus for Upton straight up….I’d just move Kinsler to the outfield or 1B and play Profar at 2nd…..but if Towers kicked in Bauer or Skaggs then I might just do it.”

    Blake,

    The other part of this though – I really am not enamored with the idea moving Profar to 2b for any significant length of time. For the next season – ok. But not much more than that.

    And even then I might move Andrus to make Profar’s acclimation easier.

    On the whole – I would definitely trade Andrus if Profar even remotely pans out to what he looks to be.

    SS are just too scarce to use one to move to 2b. The trade value will be significantly higher to fill a need.

    But I’d save that card for Stanton (or the white whale that is trading for Felix Hernandez…).

    Only complication is that Andrus is only signed for 2 more years. So his value will really fall off next season.

    I’d work on signing him to an extension now that doesn’t contain a no trade clause. That would be my immediate priority unless a trade for Stanton could be executed now.

  193. Chip December 7th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Against All Odds -

    That’s right, and he also probably did himself no favors negotiating with free agents by calling this year’s class “pathetic” I’m sure the guys on the market just loved that.

    And he’ll complain that everyone wants them to pay the “Yankee premium” or give up all their best prospects…as if agents and gms are in the business of helping the Yankees.

    He also entrusted his young pitchers to a man who had failed at every stop as a pitching coach (thankfully that has been corrected heading into this year – but I fear that in the case of Betances the damage is done). They don’t advance guys through the organization – and even block them in the minors with useless vets – for example, is there any reason why Fukudome and Jack Cust and Russ Branyan were playing in AAA when the Yankees had no intention of calling on them and their spots could have been used to advance the development of Zoilo and Abe Almonte and David Adams so they would be in position to help the club this year

    Look, the Rodriguez injury stinks as do the payroll constraints, but if Brian was serious about using his farm system then he wouldn’t be looking to overpay for Youk – he would be willing to give Adams and Mustellier chances to prove themselves.

  194. emricha2 December 8th, 2012 at 12:59 am

    based on Hamilton’s performance in the second half, his behavior, reading between the lines of Nolan Ryan and Ron Washington’s comments, and having personal experience, I think Hamilton had a relapse last year. i wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole.

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