The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Work to be done

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 10, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The Yankees are said to be moving closer to a deal with Ichiro Suzuki, and we know they’re waiting to hear from Kevin Youkilis. But even if those two were signed, the Yankees would still have work to do.

The Yankees don’t have to sign another pitcher. They might grab some fifth-starter competition out of the late-January bargain bin, but it’s not a given that they’ll add another arm. It’s also not a given that they’ll sign another catcher. Brian Cashman keeps saying he’s expecting to stick with in-house options, which might be hard to believe, but the Yankees are certainly approaching this winter in a way that suggests Cashman’s serious.

Even so, the Yankees have at least four big league roster spots to fill, and that’s only if you fill two bench spots with Chris Dickerson and Eduardo Nunez (without full seasons of Triple-A experience, it’s hard to consider Corban Joseph, David Adams, Melky Mesa, Zoilo Almonte and Ramon Flores legitimate big league options out of camp, at least not options that the Yankees would count on heading into spring training).

Here’s a rough look at the big league position player roster as it is today.

C: Chris Stewart
1B: Mark Teixeira
2B: Robinson Cano
3B: OPEN
SS: Derek Jeter
LF: Curtis Granderson
CF: Brett Gardner
RF: OPEN
DH: OPEN

C: Francisco Cervelli
IF: Eduardo Nunez
OF: Chris Dickerson
OF/IF: OPEN

Depending on what the Yankees do about that right field opening, Dickerson could become overly redundant. If the Yankees re-sign Ichiro , are they really going to carry a fourth/fifth outfielder who’s also left-handed? What if they also re-sign Raul Ibanez? If both the DH spot and the final bench spot are filled by right-handers, maybe Dickerson could stick around, but even then, Dickerson might have to be sacrificed just to open a 40-man spot.

Point is, there’s a lot of work still to be done, and we’re going to see a lot of player movement in the next couple of months. The 40-man roster is full and there aren’t a lot of easy-to-DFA players on the roster. Ichiro and Youkilis are getting the bulk of the attention right now, but even if the Yankees get those done, their offseason will be a long way from finished.

Associated Press photo

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373 Responses to “Work to be done”

  1. Warning Track Power December 10th, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    Youk>Chavez
    Youk>Nunez
    Youk>Mark Reynolds
    Youk>Hanahan

  2. Nick in SF December 10th, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    He’s also uglier than at least three of them. I don’t know what Hanahan looks like.

  3. yankfan1 December 10th, 2012 at 7:23 pm

    Nunez+ chavez>>>>>>>>>>>> youk… what a shame

  4. Mike Ri December 10th, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    Amazing to me how the Yankees havent signed AJ Pierzinski.
    …itsxa no brainer

  5. chicken little December 10th, 2012 at 7:33 pm

    If the season drags like this off-season I will be really ticked.

  6. Deal With It December 10th, 2012 at 7:34 pm

    ‘Work to be done’ is right, and not willing to spend much money to do it. Damn shame

  7. Duh Innings II December 10th, 2012 at 7:35 pm

    Hannahan > Youkilis defensively and cost-wise (X amount Hanahan offensively ($12M if he accepts the deal for a whopping $40M for 3B)

    Chavez and Reynolds are irrelevant as they signed with Arizona and Cleveland, respectively.

    If Chavez was still available, I’d be happy with him and Hannahan sharing 3B for $6M combined (assuming both were given $3M each.)

    Reynolds is a DH masquerading as a 3B – ‘glad he signed with Cleveland which shows what kind of player he is (a bum who only cares about where his next paycheck is coming from.)

    Ichiro will be re-signed so “RF OPEN” isn’t really that.

    I’d go with Hannahan at 3B for $3M and fill DH later.

    The pitching is set and the bench needs just one slot filled. Re-sign Ichiro and sign Hannahan this week and you have plenty of time to sign a veteran DH to a cheap one-year deal. I like Ibanez but he’d be a fifth lefthanded bat in the starting nine and the entire OF-DH would be lefthanded – too many lefty bats.

  8. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    Heathcott has good bat speed and a nice swing, and can run and has a very good arm. He’s dynamic and can beat you in a variety of ways.

    The problem is the way he plays. Could he learn a more phlegmatic style of play and still be effective? Probably not – I think his on-field personality is part of how he drives his talents. The question has never been talent, but whether he doesn’t just detonate himself with his zealous game!

    I have to say I am thoroughly excited about Anderson Feliz, and hope he can take what really looks like five raw tools and turn them into a high level of baseball competence. He’s just a thrilling raw talent, not to mention a switchy. I can’t wait to see Miguel Andujar, too (the 3B who doesn’t get talked up, primarily because Bichette is theoretically closer).

  9. MoRings42 December 10th, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    Isn’t Cervelli over Stewart? Cashman was quoted last year saying that if anything happened to Martin, Cervelli would be the catcher, not stewart.

  10. RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    I don’t think Hyun-Jin Ryu will be the next Asian heart throb. That guy has a lot of face.

  11. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 7:39 pm

    MTU,

    It always depends on what you’re getting back, but unless it’s a blow me away talent, I would strongly prefer keeping both Williams and Heathcott, too.

    Sanchez is under lock and key, of course :D.

  12. Deal With It December 10th, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    Hope current rumors come true…Youk to the Dodgers

  13. tomingeorgia December 10th, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    In exactly how many ways can one say,”Cashman sucks, Hal sucks and Girardi sucks” without repetition? Whatever number that is, it has been exceeded exponentially here. Knock your selves out, go for the all-time record.

  14. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    And if they’re seriously going to move Cano, they’d better hang onto both Gumbs and Feliz (neither is close, but they’re both toolsy 2B).

    Corban Joseph is not a candidate for 2B with the Yankees. No range at all. Good hitter, though.

    Adams could play 2B, but what a downgrade from Cano; not that anybody wouldn’t be.

  15. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    Heathcott has already had both of his shoulders fixed. What else can he do to himself? He and Mason can handle CF/LF probably as well as anyone we’ve ever had. Though we might want to play Slade in RF cause of the gun.

    And I think we should wait a while before we decide who to trade, if any, of those four. So what I am preaching is patience.

    And besides, I don’t see very many Yankee-types on the trade market.

  16. RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    Who has been more valued as a prospect? Cano or Adams?

  17. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 7:47 pm

    Disagree on Heathcott. I think he’s future core. In fact, I think he, Mason Williams and Tyler Austin are the next outfield.

    —————————–

    I was on another board at the time but I remember Yankee fans saying the future outfield would be Gardner, Ajax, and Jose. I understand players and circumstances are different but it is unlikely that all three guys make of the future outfield.

  18. blake December 10th, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    @AndrewMarchand: Source: Yanks, Ichiro closing in on 1-year deal http://t.co/qn6gKXR6

  19. RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    “Heathcott has already had both of his shoulders fixed. What else can he do to himself? He and Mason can handle CF/LF probably as well as anyone we’ve ever had. Though we might want to play Slade in RF cause of the gun.”

    Is that meant to be sarcastic?

  20. blake December 10th, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    @AndrewMarchand: Ichiro gives the Yanks options if they want to deal Granderson/attempt late run for Hamilton.

  21. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 7:50 pm

    I don’t think those kind of comps are useful. All prospects are not created equally, though a lot of people have used that sort of thinking when praising what turned out to be stupid trades.

    We haven’t had this many position prospects on the way in the draft era.

  22. MTU December 10th, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    JAP-

    I would only trade quality for quality.

    Goes w/o saying.

    ;)

  23. blake December 10th, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    Heathcott is my favorite prospect at the moment and I actually think heat have the most upside all around of anybody they have

  24. backbench December 10th, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    Appologize if I missed the outcome, but have we written off Ibanez? I mean, what does a player have to do to earn Yankee fan support?

  25. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    Well, he’s still young, Phil. He could run his body into the ground, and as he ages, lose his resiliency.

    I watched him play live down in Lakewood, and really loved what I saw, outside of some weird routes in CF and a bad base-running decision. Also got to see Sanchez in the same four-game set (I went to three of them), and he just screamed “athlete” to me. The other two guys who got me going were Anderson Feliz, who takes a back seat to no one in terms of tools/abilities (the power was line drive but I bet that rises as he fills out), and Flores, for his maturity at the plate. Murphy had a hellish day behind the plate, but he’s improved at Trenton.

    Any way, agree that we should keep both Slade and Mason: I saw the latter in Brooklyn and he had a “wow” game. Better instinctive OF than Heathcott, from what I saw, and they both have the requisite athleticism, plus.

  26. MTU December 10th, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    Have a great evening.

    I’ve got to go.

    :)

  27. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 7:50 pm

    I don’t think those kind of comps are useful. All prospects are not created equally, though a lot of people have used that sort of thinking when praising what turned out to be stupid trades.

    We haven’t had this many position prospects on the way in the draft era.

    ———————————-

    I understand that but look at the Rays their outfield was suppose to be was Hamilton, Baldelli, and Crawford.

  28. blake December 10th, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    They need to keep at least one of mason/ Heathcott if not both …….Id trade one of them if the deal was to get a legit and controlled big league bat ….but I dunno if that’s possible

  29. RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    blake December 10th, 2012 at 7:57 pm
    They need to keep at least one of mason/ Heathcott if not both …….Id trade one of them if the deal was to get a legit and controlled big league bat ….but I dunno if that’s possible
    ———

    Curtis Granderson? :)

  30. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    Good one, MTU

  31. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    That’s still meaningless. We have no idea that any of our guys will leave baseball for drugs (Hamilton) or get some disease no one can figure out(Baldelli). We have a bunch of kids who deserve a chance to be core for us.

  32. blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    @pgammo: Leadership is Dustin Pedroia bringing Jose Iglesius to Arizona to work out together every day

    Lol…leadership is running your manager out of town because you missed Tito

  33. Locke December 10th, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    I think we need to sign Ichiro and deal Granderson (but pay his full salary) for an major league ready, right handed OF. We need to be able to fill gaps for the future and we already know that the Grandy Man won’t be here in 2014. :(

  34. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    Is Leadership’s brother still doing time?

  35. blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    @mlbtraderumors: Dodgers Could Explore Kershaw Extension http://t.co/VKsKvqNO #mlb

    Lets start the negotiations at eleventy billion over 18 years

  36. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 8:04 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    That’s still meaningless. We have no idea that any of our guys will leave baseball for drugs (Hamilton) or get some disease no one can figure out(Baldelli). We have a bunch of kids who deserve a chance to be core for us.

    ——————-

    They do deserve a chance but what I’m saying is it’s unlikely that those 3 players will make up the Yankee outfield. The odds of all three making it is not high. I’d love to see it happen tho

  37. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    The Pedroia worship continues….

    Leadership is Robinson Cano taking Eduardo Nunez and Francisco Cervelli with him every day in the batting cage and helping to mentor them as hitters…

    Oh, sorry. Cano is Dominican. Dominicans don’t have the leadership DNA elves do.

  38. blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    “Curtis Granderson? ”

    Fair enough but Id prefer to get a 3B or SS if I dealt them…..plus AJax was closer to the big leagues than them and there are two of them.

    I’m fine keeping them too….just saying is be open to moving one of then if it was for like Chase Headley or something

  39. RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 8:06 pm

    blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:03 pm
    @mlbtraderumors: Dodgers Could Explore Kershaw Extension http://t.co/VKsKvqNO #mlb

    Lets start the negotiations at eleventy billion over 18 years
    ——–

    Sounds about right…

  40. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    GLove, Pruf, I guess you had to have been there to truly grasp the wrath of Montero’s bat.

    Anything worth sharing from YES network, Yankee Baseball Tonight, or same old, same old?

    Have to say, speaking of outfields, that it was a thrill to watch that LF CF OF of the Rays so much at the Stadium when Crawford and Upton were both out there every game in the mid 2000′s. I’d love to see both Mason and Heathcott make it to the show and watch that kind of D every game.

    Pruf, love Feliz also. Here’s hoping he has a healthy 2013.

  41. RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 8:08 pm

    I’m fine keeping them too….just saying is be open to moving one of then if it was for like Chase Headley or something
    ————-

    I’d trade two of the three for Headley without a moments thought. I’d have to think about all three.

  42. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:10 pm

    @pgammo: Leadership is Dustin Pedroia bringing Jose Iglesius to Arizona to work out together every day
    ____
    Like Alex did with Cano and Melky? Didn’t see anyone lauding Alex over it…

  43. RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    I dunno. After seeing ‘the killer Bs’ go up in smoke, value wise, I’m far less cautious about trading prospects. Sometimes you’ve just to cash in and not look back.

    But hey, I think just about every Yankee fan would prefer to see us keep Austin, Heathcott, Sanchez, and Mason, and have them all work out. We’ll see. We’re not at the point where trading them is very viable. If you are trading either of them, you’re certainly not getting premium, cost-controlled guys. You’re getting Carlos Beltran on the Giants, maybe.

  44. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    Pruf, love Feliz also. Here’s hoping he has a healthy 2013.
    ////

    He has had some problems staying healthy. He’s all elbows and knees. Limbs that don’t stop :D. Wait ’til he gets more solid. He could be a monster.

  45. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:13 pm

    Like Alex did with Cano and Melky? Didn’t see anyone lauding Alex over it…
    ///

    Alex is Dominican. Writers are partial to elves ;).

  46. blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:13 pm

    @AndrewMarchand: Ichiro gives the Yankees options http://t.co/XQQ6Kek9

    This is copied straight from lohud but that’s fine as long as the message is getting out

  47. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    I wouldn’t trade them for Headley, at all. He’s not a big enough talent to command those guys. I really don’t see many targets out there that would be worth the utility we’d get out of some of these homegrowns.

  48. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:13 pm
    @AndrewMarchand: Ichiro gives the Yankees options http://t.co/XQQ6Kek9

    This is copied straight from lohud but that’s fine as long as the message is getting out

    ————————

    Eventually they have to give credit where credit is due :)

  49. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    In a more general sense, I think it’s fair to say that it’s easy to be cavalier about “prospects” if you’ve never seen them. If you don’t really know what you’re giving up, you’re not going to sweat it.

  50. RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
    In a more general sense, I think it’s fair to say that it’s easy to be cavalier about “prospects” if you’ve never seen them. If you don’t really know what you’re giving up, you’re not going to sweat it.
    ————

    The converse is true as well.

  51. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    I’d rather have Cano and Hamilton, and keep my ‘spects.

  52. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:15 pm
    In a more general sense, I think it’s fair to say that it’s easy to be cavalier about “prospects” if you’ve never seen them. If you don’t really know what you’re giving up, you’re not going to sweat it.
    ————

    The converse is true as well.
    ///

    I think you’re going somewhere facile, but rather than assume: what do you mean?

  53. blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    “I wouldn’t trade them for Headley, at all”

    You wouldn’t trade one of them for Headley? They have nothing at 3B anywhere on the horizon….Headley is a switch hitting good defender at a positio they are real weak at…..they could trade one outfielder and still have three more legit ones in the system ….

  54. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    I’d rather have Cano and Hamiilton, and keep the `spects, too.

  55. RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    That fans/evaluators, whomever, can become overly attached to prospects and be overly reluctant to move them. Facile, yeah, sure.

  56. blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    PhiltheThrill says:
    December 10, 2012 at 8:18 pm
    I’d rather have Cano and Hamiilton, and keep the `spects, too.

    Of course….but there is virtually no way they can have them both and stay under Hals budget….

  57. brianlopez22 December 10th, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    I know prospects go up in smoke but why do we always find ourselves salivating over other team’s prospects. Chase Headley had 1 good year. We all did pray for the Gardner, Ajax, Tabata OF, and guess what? They’d be awesome in our OF right now. But Slade, Mason, and Tyler will be an amazing Of. Add Sanchez behind the plate, and we def have something very special!

  58. Shame Spencer December 10th, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    Marchand should just make a handle and start arguing with us…

    Though sometimes I’m sure Donny is actually Sherman punking all of us.

  59. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    blake,

    I wouldn’t hate having Headley, but we’d have to build the trade a different way for it to be worth it for me. We already have the Alex money sunk into third, do we really also want to sink 6 or 12 seasons of controlled young Yankee into the same position? I don’t. I’d rather bandage that situation and see what Adams, Joseph, Mustelier or someone else can do there until we come up with a 6 year solution.

  60. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    Pruf, QFT re: Cano, Hamilton and the ‘spects

    As for the group here who actually consistently goes and watches the ‘spects. The numbers unfortunately keep dwindling. We once had both the TYanks and Charleston covered. Now… :(

  61. RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:20 pm
    PhiltheThrill says:
    December 10, 2012 at 8:18 pm
    I’d rather have Cano and Hamiilton, and keep the `spects, too.

    Of course….but there is virtually no way they can have them both and stay under Hals budget….
    ———

    If only it were 2010.

  62. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    blake,

    the Yankees have to decide if they can make more money having guys like Cano and Hamilton or if they can do better not having them. I think it’s a pretty close call, but no postseasons could add up and take away the benefits they may or may not get by hitting 189.

  63. LGY December 10th, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    This is leadership.

    The Cano School of Baseball

    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....14108.html

  64. brianlopez22 December 10th, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    Yf- I would be glad to cover Charleston, TY, and Trenton from MiLB.TV. I would be 100 times better than watching Puke

  65. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    RadioKev December 10th, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    That fans/evaluators, whomever, can become overly attached to prospects and be overly reluctant to move them. Facile, yeah, sure.
    ///

    Well, it’s facile, because it leaps to a conclusion about the motives of the observer, and it would only be legit if said observer collapsed all prospects together as being worth holding onto.

    There’s a huge difference between being willing to give up Austin Romine vs. giving up a Sanchez.

    Of course, you don’t acknowledge that some prospect observers make such distinctions, because then you’d have to entertain the possibility that maybe they’re not consumed with “emotion” about prospects because they’re making a distinction between prospects, which shows a more rational outlook than you’d get from someone who is simply “attached.”

    Maybe you are “attached” to the idea that folks who regularly watch prospects are just simpering little fanboys who get a jones for a player and can’t let go?

    For instance, would I include Austin Romine in a package for J-Up? You bet I would. Would I include Gary Sanchez? Hell no, I would not. And I like Romine. But I’m not stupid ;).

  66. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    I’ve been trying to get Austin Romine traded for years.

  67. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    brian, it is great that MiLB-tv is showing more games. Two years ago, all we could watch was SWB… Still it isn’t the same of course as seeing games live, especially when it comes to pitching. But it’s definitely the next best thing.

  68. blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    “the Yankees have to decide if they can make more money having guys like Cano and Hamilton or if they can do better not having them. I think it’s a pretty close call, but no postseasons could add up and take away the benefits they may or may not get by hitting 189.”

    I think they should just get the best players and put the best product on the field…..but at the moment that doesn’t seem to be the plan

  69. Ys Guy December 10th, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    so i asked earlier what the cost would be to the yankees should they keep their payroll at $225M vs. getting under the cap for 2 seasons and what it came out to be as far as i could guestimate is somewhere over $150M in penalties over the rest of the cba.

    even to people on a blog spending someone else’s money, thats not chump change.

  70. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    You just watch Sanchez hit one ball live, and see that bat speed, power firsthand and you know.

  71. brianlopez22 December 10th, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    YS Guy, can you explain the math?

  72. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    I think they should just get the best players and put the best product on the field…..but at the moment that doesn’t seem to be the plan
    _____
    Thank God for Trenton baseball…

  73. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:30 pm
    I’ve been trying to get Austin Romine traded for years.

    —————

    Why if you don’t mind me asking?

  74. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    Phil, who were we getting back?

  75. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    Against All Odds.

    I don’t mind you asking. I think he has long been overrated defensively, because he “looks” like a catcher, and because I don’t think he has anything like a Yankee Bat.

  76. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    brianlopez22 December 10th, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    Yf- I would be glad to cover Charleston, TY, and Trenton from MiLB.TV. I would be 100 times better than watching Puke
    ///

    Would be nice if more folks paid attention and gave us their take, especially live games. GB7′s reports will be sorely missed going forward. Tyanks was a really sharp cookie covering the Tampa games. Tucker had some AFL action and was good about getting back to the blog. Mostly, though, it’s quoting BA and BP guys.

    MiLB games are there for the watching, that’s for sure. I am surprised more fans don’t make use of it.
    ///

    Primo, if you’re out there, I’m especially interested in your reports on Luis Torrens :).

  77. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    What happened to GB7?

  78. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    I feel the same way. That doesn’t mean I don’t think he should get a shot or everything like that but I’ve always felt Romine has been propped up by the Yankees and a section of fans.

  79. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:36 pm
    What happened to GB7?

    —————–

    Unfortunately he is no longer with us.

  80. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    yankeefeminista, I’d have go look and see in my notes when I get back to LA later this week.

  81. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    Against All Odds.

    He left the site or left the world?

  82. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:39 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:30 pm

    I’ve been trying to get Austin Romine traded for years.
    ///

    lol. Cashman-Girardi tend to over rate this kind of player, no question. Romine has had some nice stretches in Trenton, but he’s not what some of us had in mind of succeed Posada.

  83. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    Girardi has absolutely poisoned Cashman’s mind about catchers. The Yanks have never won without a good hitting catcher, other than Girardi, but we still had other catchers who could hit when he was on the team.

  84. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    He left the world

  85. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:42 pm

    I’m sorry to hear that and hope he’s resting in peace.

  86. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 8:44 pm

    We are/were all sad to hear the news.

    God Bless him.

  87. Ys Guy December 10th, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    well, first off, the payroll is taxed at 50% over the LT threshold. so a $225M payroll is $36M over and causes an $18M penalty per season.

    the rest is hard to work out b/c it depends on revenues we’re not certain of and whether oakland opens a new stadium (unlikely) but the yankees have claimed in the past that it would cost them $40M per year. im going to cut that amount in half and say it will cost them $20M per year.

    so add them together and you have $38M per year and and the cba runs through 2016 for a total cost of $156M.

    this is a guestimate. how does it look to you guys?

  88. jacksquat December 10th, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    I don’t believe the Yankees are going to go with Cervelli/Steward/Romine, maybe one of them. I think they’ll at least pick up a Shoppach or Olivo. A Pierzynski/Shoppach platoon would be very good.

  89. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    You just watch Sanchez hit one ball live, and see that bat speed, power firsthand and you know.
    ///

    He made some loud outs down in Lakewood, ball jumped off his bat. He stole a base, and he looked capable and athletic behind the plate.

  90. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    He left the world
    ///

    Odds, he’s just in a different “place”. Immortality is terminal, happily, and I don’t mean the kind where you’re stroking a harp and drifting on a cloud (doubt that’d suit him, lol).

  91. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    There’s a mix of various metrics and old fashioned scouting stuff you can use to look at prospects, and that consistent bat sound which indicates speed and barreling is a good old school indicator.

  92. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:51 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    Girardi has absolutely poisoned Cashman’s mind about catchers. The Yanks have never won without a good hitting catcher, other than Girardi, but we still had other catchers who could hit when he was on the team.
    ///

    Watch it, now. They called me a character assassin and delusional for saying Girardi doesn’t like offensive catchers.

    What I’d like to know is, if Girardi’s so clever, why couldn’t he – and Tony Pena, who was a much better defender – somehow worked out mentoring Jesus Montero to an acceptable level? Why could they not have just split the difference, since the bat would have been worth the trouble? Why??

  93. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    Phil, our new doctrinaire and unYankee-like approach to the catching position is an abomination.

    JS, no way do we go with the current catching triumvirate. Cash is just blowing smoke, as per usual.

    Pruf, cannot wait to get Sanchez in AA.

  94. Ys Guy December 10th, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    i added a season, if the cba runs through 2016, that means the whole thing only applies to 3 seasons, thus 38M x 3 =$114M.

    im asking you guys b/c i dont really understand the costs but id like to…

  95. brianlopez22 December 10th, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    Ok, so if they stay at 225 in 2014 + approx 20 mm for rev sharing. But if we can simply stay under 210, then they pay about 30 mm until 2017 when we all agree getting under is possible. At least more possible than 2014.

    I am not opposed to getting under 189. I am opposed to such mandates when they have 100 mm dedicated to 4 players.

  96. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:53 pm

    Did Doreen ever confirm definitively about GB? Wasn’t she going to check a source after Dec. 1st?

  97. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 8:54 pm

    brian, are you located close to a Yankee minor league park?

  98. blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:55 pm

    “Girardi has absolutely poisoned Cashman’s mind about catchers”

    This will be even more evident if they go into this season without making a catching move…..

  99. brianlopez22 December 10th, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    Not really. I just moved to Charlotte. Charleston is 3 hours away. But I ordered MiLB and watched some games. From watching a few Tyler Austin ABs, he looks like the real deal. Even a lot closer than we give him credit for.

  100. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    Pruf, cannot wait to get Sanchez in AA.
    ///

    Let’s hope he makes it there…

    If Heathcott survives, we’re going to have a blast going to Trenton games… I’m much more excited about them ATM than the parent club.

  101. blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    “so i asked earlier what the cost would be to the yankees should they keep their payroll at $225M vs. getting under the cap for 2 seasons and what it came out to be as far as i could guestimate is somewhere over $150M in penalties over the rest of the cba.”

    JF has probably figured this up….but i think the biggest difference would be in the actual payroll reduction…..considering they will actually need to get the AAV number into the 170s to avoid the tax that’s over 50 million in savings just by lowering the payroll that much

  102. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    Dickey taught Yogi how to catch AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL. Pena couldn’t have tuned up Montero enough. I have never believed that and never will. That trade was the reason I couldn’t even talk about the Yanks for most of the year.

  103. blake December 10th, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    December 10, 2012 at 8:57 pm
    Not really. I just moved to Charlotte. Charleston is 3 hours away. But I ordered MiLB and watched some games. From watching a few Tyler Austin ABs, he looks like the real deal. Even a lot closer than we give him credit for.

    Hey I was just there this weekend

  104. brianlopez22 December 10th, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    J A P-

    I totally agree. It’s hard to cough up money for season tix only to keep my seniority alive when I can’t get behind Hal’s decisions.

  105. Jerkface December 10th, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    If they were under for 2014-2016 it would save them

    18 million in luxury tax per season = 54 million
    +

    32 million in revenue sharing rebates = 86 million

    or

    49 million in revenue sharing rebates if oak gets a new stadium = 103 million

  106. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    So about an Igawa and a Pavano.

  107. Jerkface December 10th, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    Thats if they spent slightly more than they do now. The luxury tax savings will be slightly less if they spend like they have in the past, as it would be around 15 million per season.

  108. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    brian, MiLB’s great, but that ride to Charleston doesn’t sound too bad. ;) Agree about Tyler. I saw him live in one playoff game in Trenton. He had good AB’s, but looked a little rusty. Franklin had kept him out of the lineup because of seniority. I’m hoping to see a lot of him and Heathcott in Trenton in 2013.

  109. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    Dickey taught Yogi how to catch AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL. Pena couldn’t have tuned up Montero enough. I have never believed that and never will. That trade was the reason I couldn’t even talk about the Yanks for most of the year.
    ///

    This is true. Yogi didn not have many advocates, and Dickey was a guiding light. Had Yogi been under the Cashman-Girardi regime, he would have been traded, because he wasn’t a great catcher initially. I have remarked on here that Montero could have used such counsel. Jorge was mentoring him, and Montero said he wanted to be “like Posada.” Of course, the Yankees didn’t value Posada as a catcher, so probably didn’t care for his mentoring either, nor a Posada protege. They obviously didn’t like his hubris, either: “This is MY house,” but I loved it, because he has the bat to back it up. I understand your acute disappointment. I still feel something that approximates rage. Alas. Sanchez better stay put.

  110. Madrugador December 10th, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    Ichiro and Youkilis?
    Help Wanted
    Play Baseball for the New York Yankees
    No one under 30 need apply.

    Talk about injury potential. If this gets players like Tyler Austin to the big leagues sooner, I am all for it as long as they are still getting the instruction they need to be successful.

  111. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    He left the world ///

    Odds, he’s just in a different “place”. Immortality is terminal, happily, and I don’t mean the kind where you’re stroking a harp and drifting on a cloud (doubt that’d suit him, lol).

    ——————

    Very well said :)

  112. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    We should see a lot of movement to and through Trenton this year.

  113. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    brianlopez22 December 10th, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    J A P-

    I totally agree. It’s hard to cough up money for season tix only to keep my seniority alive when I can’t get behind Hal’s decisions.
    ///

    You’re a Yankee season ticket holder who lives in Charleston?? I gave up my seasons after Montero was traded.

  114. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:11 pm

    J Alfred,

    he came up OPSing when called, too. It was just a enormous case of bad thinking by the Yanks.

  115. blake December 10th, 2012 at 9:13 pm

    Hoping Heathcott and Austin start there and do well…and that Mason and Sanchez get to Trenton at some point during the year

    If those things happen then we will have a lot better idea of where they are time table wise and also be in a better picture of needs next winter

  116. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:14 pm

    Odds, there are going to be some startling, science-based evidence coming to light over the next few years, if not sooner. Nothing faith-based, but evidence based, that what I say is not only true, and not “miraculous”, but the way the cosmos work…. just as we accept certain macrocosmic laws of nature… it’s coming, and it’s going to change the world. For the better. It’s all good :D.

  117. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:11 pm

    J Alfred,

    he came up OPSing when called, too. It was just a enormous case of bad thinking by the Yanks.
    ///

    A**holes.

  118. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    I’ll take your word for it buddy. You’re usually right when it comes to things like this

  119. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    Energy just changes form. It’s not destroyed. Consciousness is energy. Thus..

    Anyway, getting back to the Yanks, I’m really interested in seeing how Gil Patterson changes things as the new Pitching Czar. We have a lot of good arms right now.

  120. Ys Guy December 10th, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    thanks jf. so it’s $40-$49M per year for 3 years( $120M min.).

    and of course they would also be spending $37M less for 2 seasons ($74M) to get under it saving them.

    so if this plan worked they would save $194 M in payroll over 2014-2016.

    thats before any potential loss of revenue if they aren’t competetive.

  121. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    blake, I think both Mason and Sanchez definitely get there. Even if they move slowly with Sanchez, IMO he still should get there by second half…

    “That trade was the reason I couldn’t even talk about the Yanks for most of the year.”

    Phil, I feel you. Crushed, about sums it up.

  122. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    Yes Gil was a fine pick up. Aside from our pitchers coming back that is the best news of the off season. It might be a while to see what he does but hopefully it’s worth it

  123. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:25 pm

    And we’ll have some extra picks in the draft.

  124. Ys Guy December 10th, 2012 at 9:25 pm

    when hal and co worked out the cost/benefit of getting under before the 2012 season there was probably a much better estimate of what they could expect in performance from arod , and tex over this past year and the next 2 or 3.

    they probably expected some ‘return to normal’ improvement for both tex and arod before last season, but that’s much less likely considering how each did in 2012.

  125. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:25 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    Energy just changes form. It’s not destroyed. Consciousness is energy. Thus..
    ///

    Phil, this is the truth. You’re right this isn’t the place, but what I’m talking about is inter-dimensional communication that engineers and physicists are working on, that will, if not end, greatly lessen the griefs we feel as human beings. There is nothing worse than grief…. gonna change the world. But that’s for another kind of blog ;)

  126. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    J. Alfred, fellow Yankee fan and Lightworker?

  127. blake December 10th, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    “blake, I think both Mason and Sanchez definitely get there. Even if they move slowly with Sanchez, IMO he still should get there by second half…”

    It would be great if all the top guys could finish the year at Trenton….cause then you know they are getting closer and then you have a better idea of a time table

  128. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    Anyway, getting back to the Yanks, I’m really interested in seeing how Gil Patterson changes things as the new Pitching Czar. We have a lot of good arms right now.
    ///

    I am extremely interested to see what he can do with Betances. Having seen him pitch with good mechanics in 2010, I am reluctant to believe he can’t get back to that, despite his struggles. He’s got another year left – I have not cared for the tweaks they made last year.

  129. Ys Guy December 10th, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    pats showing these texas kids who runs the afc.

  130. Jerkface December 10th, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    thanks jf. so it’s $40-$49M per year for 3 years( $120M min.).

    No its not that at all. Its ~70-80 minimum for 3 years or around 100. Not sure where you took that from what I posted.

    They only get this amount back:

    2014 – 11.5% revenue sharing if oak gets new stadium in 2014, else 7.5%
    2015 – 17.5% revenue sharing if oak gets new stadium in 2014, else 11.25%
    2016 – 23% revenue sharing if oak gets new stadium in 2014, else 15%

    In 2011 they had 100 million in revenue sharing. They will have between 90-110 in revenue sharing. In 2013 their revenue sharing percentage will decrease according to the CBA, its going to decrease nearly a percentage point down to 27.1%

  131. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    J. Alfred, fellow Yankee fan and Lightworker?
    ///

    Affirmative!

  132. Jerkface December 10th, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    Look at this way they will either get 52% of their revenue sharing back for 1 year if Oakland gets a new stadium, or they will get 33% back. So over a 3 year period they will gain a third of 1 year’s worth of revenue sharing back.

  133. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:31 pm

    Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    I’ll take your word for it buddy. You’re usually right when it comes to things like this
    ///

    Odds, as right as you were about Joba’s role in all of this. Find that post! :D

  134. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 9:31 pm

    blake, barring injuries, I think the Big 4 can all be in Trenton by end of year. Sanchez obviously depends on how they evaluate his catching progress. I also would love to see Ramirez there sooner, and DePaula there by year’s end. But don’t know if they will move him that quickly. He was originally supposed to be a fast mover, but the down time didn’t help… we’ll see.

  135. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    When Betances was first coming through the minors, they couldn’t hit him at all unless he was coming down with an injury, he might walk them, but they couldn’t really hit him. I don’t know what has happened, but he and several of our other pitching prospects all of a sudden had trouble with fastball control this past year, and I wonder if that’s a big reason why Gil was brought in.

  136. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    Pruf, I wish we had video of Betances in AFL. Very nice K/BB rates.

  137. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 9:33 pm

    I’m working on it. Google searches and everything snake eyes so far lol

  138. Ys Guy December 10th, 2012 at 9:33 pm

    so you’re saying that the total cost, not counting the payroll being lower is about $100M for 2014-2016.

    plus the $72M if the payroll is under $189M vs. $225M under my original scenario.

  139. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    Pruf,

    big month for folks like us!

  140. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    Yankeefem – we get Jo-Ram and DePaula this year, plus Slade, and eventually Sanchez and Williams, I’m going to live at that ballpark! It’s 15 minutes from my house on a good day – and the parking’s about $32 less than what the NYC Parking Authority pulls down from me, plus the price of the ticket is merely the toll to get over the George M. Steinbrenner bridge!

  141. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 9:35 pm

    Gil was brought in because Nardi has failed. The Yankees finally said wait not one of our pitching prospects have lived up to the hype. Through luck at least one would have made it

  142. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    The Cuban Lefty could move quickly, too, if he gets his visa straightened out in time for pitchers and catchers.

  143. Against All Odds December 10th, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    By made it I meant reached their ceiling because obviously we have pitchers who have made it.

  144. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    Phil,

    Yes it is.

  145. LGY December 10th, 2012 at 9:39 pm

    Why are we assuming a $225M payroll when the highest they’ve ever had was $213M??

  146. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    Omar Louis Rodriguez is the Cuban Lefty I was mentioning.

  147. Ys Guy December 10th, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    romine, mason sanchez, adams, betances, banuelos, heathcott, austin, gumbs could all get a real shot at a roster spot if they stick with this plan over the next 4 seasons.

    they will really really need help from the minors to make the under $189M plan to work.

    arod and tex don’t figure to ‘carry’ the yankees the next 3 seasons.

  148. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    I don’t undertand what went so wrong in the midst of Tex’s prime. Sheesh.

  149. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    Phil, yeah, strange thing about the FB control. Betances and Manny were both different pitchers a couple of years ago. I wonder about generally not letting our pitchers go deeper in games, and whether that has been detrimental. Also they screwed with Betances stride.

    Cuban lefty, meaning Omar Luis Rodriguez?

  150. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    When Betances was first coming through the minors, they couldn’t hit him at all unless he was coming down with an injury, he might walk them, but they couldn’t really hit him. I don’t know what has happened, but he and several of our other pitching prospects all of a sudden had trouble with fastball control this past year, and I wonder if that’s a big reason why Gil was brought in.
    ///

    I’m not a pitching technician, but I have seen a good deal of this kid in the last 3 years, and what I saw was a shorter stride and him not getting the same downhill movement. The shorter stride seems to have him cutting himself off and although they said they wanted him to use his legs more, seems to me he’s not driving through the pitch to the plate like he was. He doesn’t seem to be finishing. I don’t get what they think they’re accomplishing. Having said that, his Ks were up and BBs down in AFL short stints, although I wasn’t able to witness these appearances. I think Tucker, a good poster here, may have seen one of his outings.

  151. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:44 pm

    Yes, that’s who I was talking about. They like him a lot.

  152. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    Phil Hughes’s shortened stride is what I would argue has been the cause of his not really being Phil Hughes since that night in Texas years ago. Made him more of an arm thrower and took him from being a ground ball pitcher to a flyball pitcher.

  153. Ys Guy December 10th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    lgy i used $225M in my equation this morning because i figured that doing things the ‘old way’ $213 would have gone over $225 in 2014 15 & 16 . obviously there is a sliding scale based on how much reduction you assume from where they were 2 seasons ago when they really had to start working out ‘the plan’.

  154. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:51 pm

    PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:46 pm

    Phil Hughes’s shortened stride is what I would argue has been the cause of his not really being Phil Hughes since that night in Texas years ago. Made him more of an arm thrower and took him from being a ground ball pitcher to a flyball pitcher.
    ///

    It’s a good point about Hughes, and with Dellin, you immediately become suspicious when his AO rates are high. He’s a guy when he’s on you just cannot get good wood on. It’s all Ks and GOs, and some BBs, of course. Waaay too many flyouts last year with all that tinkering. He did not have to make such a tradeoff in 2010.

  155. Ys Guy December 10th, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    i only saw betances twice in 2011. i was impressed with alot about him although he didnt do that well the first time i saw him in the rain he walked a bunch of guys and gave up a few weak hits, plus the d was shoddy and they lost.

    the second time he gave up a walk and 2 hits to the first 3 batters then was unhittable after that. i’ve rarely seen so many bad hacks in a game (it was new brittain, who could hit). they couldnt time him b/c he had this deceptively slow motion in front of a fastball that came from behind his head and got on you quicker than you expected. very impressive.

    but i must have caught him on a good day b/c he has rarely performed the way i would expect from a guy who was blowing guys away like children

  156. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    Phil,

    I think Hughes may have mentioned somewhere that he couldn’t drive through because the hamstring made him lose that connection with his core, or confidence that the support would be there. Something like that.

  157. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Have we confirmed that Nardi was kicked upstairs(downstairs?) so to speak because the Yanks wanted Gil to revamp the pitching or was it as Newman said that Nardi requested that he be allowed to spend more time with the Latin prospects and less time traveling? Probably the former…

    Hughes has never been the same since Texas. He had much more leg/core power before the injury.

  158. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Leg *drive

  159. PhiltheThrill December 10th, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    It’s definitely a head thing with Hughes. Some conditioning could really help him, again.

  160. yankeefeminista December 10th, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    Pruf, I remember Hughes recently saying that about his legs. He’d never really addressed it before.

  161. J. Alfred Prufrock December 10th, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    the second time he gave up a walk and 2 hits to the first 3 batters then was unhittable after that. i’ve rarely seen so many bad hacks in a game (it was new brittain, who could hit). they couldnt time him b/c he had this deceptively slow motion in front of a fastball that came from behind his head and got on you quicker than you expected. very impressive.

    but i must have caught him on a good day b/c he has rarely performed the way i would expect from a guy who was blowing guys away like children
    ///

    No, what you saw is Betances when he’s got enough control to get through five plus innings. The awkward swings are what he gets, and yeah he was brilliant changing eye level with the curve and 2-seamer in the dirt and then busting hitters around the letters with the fastball. He also has that great changeup. They have recreated him in an effort to help him throw strikes, but it seems they’ve robbed him somewhat of what makes him special and unhittable. I’m hoping Patterson can revive what he was able to do in 2010 and at times, in 2011. He will always walk some batters. I can live with that if we can get the 2010 version back – & his BB rates were good that year.

  162. Nick in SF December 10th, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    How much do they save if we assume a payroll of $275M? Wow, it’s gotta be a huge number.

  163. Nick in SF December 10th, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    oops, take your savings here :arrow:

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