As dominoes fall, Ichiro stands out more and more
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 12, 2012 
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Kevin Youkilis has agreed to terms, and as long as the doctors give the green light, the Yankees have their third baseman. That means right field now stands as the clear priority, and that market is becoming crystal clear as well.
Consider…
1. Last night the Indians shipped Shin-Soo Choo to the Reds in a three-team trade that sent young shortstop Didi Gregorius to the Diamondbacks.
2. Because the Diamondbacks now have their shortstop, they no longer have much incentive to trade Justin Upton, and Kevin Towers says such a trade is “highly unlikely.”
3. Because the Diamondbacks aren’t likely to trade Upton, the Rangers have little reason not to re-sign Josh Hamilton.
4. Because the path is now clear for Hamilton, the path should also open for Nick Swisher. Maybe it’s Cleveland. Maybe Philadelphia. Maybe Seattle. His market seems fairly wide open, but it should come into focus now that pieces are flying off the board.
5. Because Swisher and Hamilton are the last remaining free agent outfielders who don’t need a platoon partner — and because there are no obvoius trade targets readily available — the Yankees might as well buy into the best platoon situation possible.
6. Because the Yankees might as well find the best platoon possible, they might as well start with Ichiro. He could more easily handle the position and potentially play everyday than the any of the left-handed alternatives (Ryan Sweeney, Scott Podsednik, Rick Ankiel, Raul Ibanez).
7. Because the Yankees already seem to be moving toward a deal with Ichiro, they can also start considering the right-handed corner outfielders, a group that begins with Cody Ross and continues through Scott Hairston and Delmon Young.
8. Because the Yankees have a clear left-handed outfield target and a small group of right-handed options, they might as well fill that designated hitter spot, figure out whether Chad Gaudin is still pitching, and call it an offseason. When do pitchers and catchers report again?
Associated Press photo
Joelsherman1 Here’s what I wonder: Wasn’t Ichiro brought here at age-38 to be semi-reg, not full-timer? He’d need full-time ABs/success at 39-40 (cont) 9 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite
Joelsherman1 Ichiro is 394 Hs from 3,000 and #Yankees are wondeirng if 2-yr deal would create marketing $$, especially in Japanese mkt about 1 minute ago · reply · retweet · favorite
Joelsherman1 #Yankees know they are signing Ichiro, decision is 1 yr, 1 yr with vesting option or 2-yr deal.
*****
I still like Ichiro – or its growing on me – has that Jason Kidd feel to it – – – -
Joelsherman1 But still #Yankees trying to skimp on every ’14 $ spent to get under $189 tax threshold, now thinking of going to 2 yrs with Ichiro 10 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite
Joelsherman1 Last time #Yankees tied records to contract plans with plyr was A-Rod, which has become disaster. This is lot less $$ with Ichiro (cont)
The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 8:56 am
Name some current Yankee minor leaguers who could fill the many holes if all the potential FA’s are gone. I’m including Granderson, Cano and potentially Hughes not being with the team, as well as Logan and Aardsma.
*******
I will give it a try:
C – Romine/Murphy
2b – Corban Joseph/David Adams
RF – Tyler Austin
LF – Ramon Flores/Slade Heathcott
Starters: Nova, Phelps, Marshall, Turley – with the hint of a Corey Black if he keeps advancing rapidly
Reliever: Montgomery, Pinder, Goody, Whitley, Rondon, Tracy,
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The relievers are probably right – but I can’t imagine the position players in Austin, Flores and Heathcott making that much of a jump in one season – not with the way the Yankees move their guys up. Though if they’re going to go this route then they have to get more aggressive in their player development.
blake December 12th, 2012 at 8:17 am
@jonmorosi: #Yankees have spent $49MM this offseason on one-year deals. And they haven’t gotten better. My column: http://t.co/RH8OENVu @MLBONFOX
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Ahahahahahaha…
This is fun.
And btw, I apologize Nick if I misunderstood your point – I thought you were trying to say we were creating a narrative in here that didn’t exist. My only point was that we were merely commenting on an already established narrative… but I suppose my point didn’t speak to your point at all lol.
The relievers are probably right – but I can’t imagine the position players in Austin, Flores and Heathcott making that much of a jump in one season – not with the way the Yankees move their guys up. Though if they’re going to go this route then they have to get more aggressive in their player development.
*****
You are right – I was very bullish on the OF – - – -
I like Ichiro quite a bit and was advocating his resigning but I did always stipulate it would need to be as part of a platoon or solid 4 player rotation out there.
We’ll see if they pay him as a starter or not.
If I fill the roster I posted above with
- Ronnier/Adamas at 3B (.5 AAV)
- Tyler Austin in RF (.5 AAV)
- move ARod to DH
- Sign Hamilton for AAV of 22.5
- Resign Hughes to 10 mm AAV
- Cabral in bullpen (.75 AAV)
Thats 177 mm.
But at least we have Hamilton and Cano in the same lineup.
A lot of minor leaguers, but it is possible.
Gardner CF
Jeter SS
Cano 2B
Hamilton LF
ARod DH
Tex 1B
Tyler Austin RF
Adams or Ronnier 3B
Romine C
Nunez/Dickerson/Nix/Cervelli – Bench
CC
Hughes
Pineda
Nova
Phelps
Warren/ Cabral/ Eppley/ Rapada/ Montgomery/ Joba/ DRob
Joelsherman1 Despite offers from #Phillies, others, Ichiro badly wants to be with #Yankees, so deal may be just in 2-$12M-$14Mish range
Really starting to wonder where Swish goes… Could the A’s or Rangers be a match? I dunno if the A’s planned on spending any money but given the Angels and Rangers are going to still be smarting over last season..
2/12 would be pretty awesome.
Maybe we will get lucky and Youk will fail his physical.
The relievers are probably right – but I can’t imagine the position players in Austin, Flores and Heathcott making that much of a jump in one season – not with the way the Yankees move their guys up. Though if they’re going to go this route then they have to get more aggressive in their player development.
*****
You are right – I was very bullish on the OF – – – -
==============================================
all of those guys, barring injury, will most likely see substantial time at AAA this season.
However the Almonte Boys ( Zoilo and Abe ) are certainly ahead of all 3 as far as development and maybe just a tick below as far as ability. Especially Abe Almonte who I think is 1 healthy season away from showing he is a better version or Brett Gardner ( better hit tool, better arm, equal D and speed and great intangibles ).
Why are they thinking about going two yrs with Ichiro?
Chip and Blake-
While I’m waiting on a realistic trade proposal on trading a declining Granderson, in all aspects of the game, except for hitting homers, many of which were in YS, give me the potential 2013 Yankees lin-eup vs David Price or any good lefty out there.
Jeter SS
Ichiro RF
Teixeira 1B
Cano 2B
Youkilis 3B
Granderson LF
DH
Stewart C
Gardner CF
Does that about sum up a potential lineup vs a lefty pitcher?
Texeira-
champ –
I agree with you but Tyler Austin has the best bat of all those names.
He may not be as fast or even as good of a fielder, but RF is pretty small and he is athletic enough to learn.
I trust his hands and hitting ability to make the jump by opening day 2014.
I just don’t see Ichiro playing 150+ games next season. They need a RH outfielder who ideally can play multiple spots, certainly either corner. I’m okay if they decide to see if Mesa or Mustelier can handle it…. would love Ross on a one-year deal but not likely.
By the way, Yanks 40-man is full. Who goes to make room for Youkilis? Ichiro?
I would think Jim Miller goes first… then maybe one of the lefty specialist candidates — Cabral, Rapada, Spence or Rondon.
It appears with Ichiro for two years for marketing money. Wouldn’t it be nice if the purpose of putting together a roster was to win and not spend precious money for marketing?
Incredible.
Why are they thinking about going two yrs with Ichiro?
===========================
Well, they’ll need a RF next year too, and if one can be had for reasonable money, why not?
That said, before Ichiro had those 3 weeks of Ruth-ness, was anyone interested in bringing him back at all?
Youkilis gets virtually the same salary he’s made per year, and Ichiro gets a sizeable pay cut because he announced right away he wanted to be a Yankee and Youkilis pondered for a week, hoping a match-up of the Yankees offer would come from another team while he was in Boston doing charity work?
How is that marketing contract working out with Arod?
I like Ichi the killer for just one year… but eh, I stop caring for 14. I guess he can backup if anyone combo of Almontes and Mesa shows any abilities to stick around.
And Ladies, get your Youk T shirt ready!
Ichiro can’t play 3B…. the options there were a lot worse than the options in the OF
Supply and demand my friend
Here’s where the 2014 lineup could be if they make no trades – sign no free agents and Jeter opts out:
If you went strictly with current Yankee farmhands and assumed all potential free agents leave you would be looking at a roster along these lines:
C – Romine
1b – Tex
2b – Joseph
3b – Adams
SS – Nunez
LF – Abe Almonte
CF – Gardner
RF – Zoilo Almonte
DH – Alex
Bench: Jose Pirella, Mesa, Cervelli, Mustellier
Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 9:16 am
Why are they thinking about going two yrs with Ichiro?
——————
They need someone signed in 2014 lol..
Personally? I would have spent the $18 million on Youk and Ichi differently but in that case you gotta make trades/commit long term.. and that’s not their plan right now. At least we know we have 2 OFers in 2014. It’s the little things lol.
We can have family promotion events such as shave your head like Uncle Youk day and guess Youk ‘Walk’ in a game and win a date day. The possibilities are almost infinite.
Trader – can’t do that until we see if they sign Hairston or Ross or some other RH bats.
My guess would be that it would be something like:
C – Romine
1b – Tex
2b – Cano
ss – Jeter/Nunez
3b – Youk
LF/CF/RF some combination of RH bat and Gardner/Granderson/Ichiro
DH – Jeter/Nunez
My only concern about Ichiro’s deal are if there will be incentives…
I like what he brings. In a world with no budget, this is a great thing. In this new Yankee world of crunching numbers, I hope it doesn’t hurt them.
Cashmoney December 12th, 2012 at 9:29 am
We can have family promotion events such as shave your head like Uncle Youk day
————–
Never realized how much he looks like Uncle Fester until just now..
I have advocated getting reasonable contracts into 2014. However, I did not have in mind giving one to a 40 year old who has been in significant decline for two years.
It seems clear to me they are making decisions on the fly.
Chip, nice looking team if they all leave. Sixty to seventy wins with decent pitching.
Yankees at 183M now for 12 signed players plus AJ Burnett. Sign Ichiro makes it 13. Arb eligibles are Logan, Joba, Robertson for another tidy sum should push it close to 200M and still need 9 more signed for only a 25 man roster. Opening day payroll for the 40 man roster in 2012 was almost 210M, 3M short of the highest opening day payroll in Yankee history.
Could be breaking a record this year. The Steinbrenner’s now will be paying 42.5% on every dollar over 178M with potential for declining attendance?
How generous!
I could see Gardner and Ichiro standing in for the transition to a homegrown OF for 2015 possibly. I would still like for them to be aggressive this offseason and deal with the Granderson situation and try to secure someone to hold down the OF in 2013 and 2014 – like a Kubel, Saunders, Gerrit Jones, etc. 2015 seems to be a realistic time you can start dreaming on Heathcott, Austin, Flores, and perhaps Williams to be ready to take some of the slots – hopefully as much as two of the OF spots – though some of those 4 will either be traded or run into a wall in AA/AAA – - – -
Trader,
As I’ve said many times….yes I think they could move Granderson….. They might have to eat a little money to get a better return though depending on the team they are dealing with
There is no ml talent ready for the big show, Trade Cano and Granderson in separate deals and get a couple of hauls like the Rays got from KC getting younger and cheaper.
Ichiro has averaged 181 hits the last two years. Hard to see him getting 394 in two seasons.
I would expect the Yanks to sign Ibanez and platoon him and Nunez for the most part.
If that happens the Yanks will have in essence gotten older across the board with the exception of Nunez as a RH DH.
They will have swapped Rivera for Soriano, Swisher for Gardner, A-Rod for Youkilis and Martin for Cervelli.
That does not seem like improvement to me.
Shame-
Johnny Damon looked like Itt until he shaved too.
How on earth can they be considering giving Ichiro two years with all this 189 stuff…..and how
Also can they justify giving him nearly the same money that Melky signed for?
One year to Ichiro only or pass
Trader,
Granderson for Randall Delgado or Dom Brown is very realistic IMO.
But they can’t afford to trade Granderson at the moment so until they replace him it doesn’t matter….
AAA December 12th, 2012 at 9:22 am
Why are they thinking about going two yrs with Ichiro?
===========================
Well, they’ll need a RF next year too, and if one can be had for reasonable money, why not?
That said, before Ichiro had those 3 weeks of Ruth-ness, was anyone interested in bringing him back at all?
—————————————-
The answer to that question is no.
Mets taking a hardline stance…
@MartinoNYDN
One more: They’re serious about letting him play out option next year no matter how he feels about it, and they’re not going to 2/$26 mil.
2/17 for Melky is way better than any two year dea for Ichiro……
I wonder if they are considering trading Gardner
I think you have to figure Prado, Hart or Choo are more likely for 2014 than Granderson. If it’s Prado you might get more Almonte/ Flores/ Heatcott in left w Prado playing some 3B. I also think you have to trade some of these prospects – Joseph or Adams, Flores or Heathcott, Banuelos or Bettances. Don’t want them stay around just long enough to lose all value (see Brackman). Could see Hart or Headley available at trade deadline.
The mets are dumb….they won’t do a 2/26 deal for Dickey and reportedly they turned down a deal for Olt? Not sure what they are doing…..
blake December 12th, 2012 at 9:35 am
How on earth can they be considering giving Ichiro two years with all this 189 stuff…..and how
Also can they justify giving him nearly the same money that Melky signed for?
———————
Yea that’s odd
I’m not sure if these are Cashman moves. When I see only “household” names, I start thinking Levine and Hank. Especially Ichiro for two years, that deal is right up Levine’s alley.
@jcrasnick: I’m with @keithlaw: Really liked what #indians did in trade. Thought #reds did well to get Choo. #Dbacks came out on bottom
Yup…. Traded a potential front line starter a SS they may not even be able to hit
blake December 12th, 2012 at 9:35 am
How on earth can they be considering giving Ichiro two years with all this 189 stuff…..and how
Also can they justify giving him nearly the same money that Melky signed for?
UGH, totally forgot about that… I’m still stuck being annoyed about Beltran lol
Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 9:29 am
Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 9:16 am
Why are they thinking about going two yrs with Ichiro?
——————
They need someone signed in 2014 lol..
Personally? I would have spent the $18 million on Youk and Ichi differently but in that case you gotta make trades/commit long term.. and that’s not their plan right now. At least we know we have 2 OFers in 2014. It’s the little things lol.
——————————
Yes we have Gardner and Ich for 2014 look out the rest of baseball lol
I’m still not convinced that trading Granderson now is going to bring the Yankees a decent bunch of major league ready prospects, or an everyday outfielder.
The Yankees have been shopping him for over a month whiel other CF’ers like FA’s Victorino, Upton and Pagan, plus trades like Span and Revere, plus now Choo and Stubbs, have filled other teams needs for CF help.
You know what’s awesome?
They’ll still have to fill a ton of holes next year and cut salary big time: 3B, DH, 2 OF spots (maybe a kid can take one so you only need to find 1 instead), 2B, and possibly C.
Everybody better cross their fingers Romine can be a serviceable catcher.. where our 3B will come from I’m not sure. I highly doubt Adams/Mustillier get any playing time with Youk around. They didn’t shun Jones until the post season and he was literally useless ALL year.
Has trisha been around?
I know she’ll be all on board rooting for Youk but maybe this is one time she’ll be able to commiserate with the complainers
Will be amazing if Youkilis ends up being the youngest player they sign. (Kuroda, Pettitte, Mariano, Ichiro – all quite a bit older – though it’s not like Youk appears to actually play any younger than them).
jacksquat December 12th, 2012 at 9:40 am
I’m not sure if these are Cashman moves. When I see only “household” names, I start thinking Levine and Hank. Especially Ichiro for two years, that deal is right up Levine’s alley.
—————
Then what the hell is Cashman doing?? Maybe he’s allowed to be working on a trade lol.. but we only got reports about Levine trying to work over Miami for Giancarlo..
blake December 12th, 2012 at 9:39 am
The mets are dumb….they won’t do a 2/26 deal for Dickey and reportedly they turned down a deal for Olt? Not sure what they are doing…..
————
Typical Mets.. I’d take Dickey for $13 per on a short term deal..
“I have a dream that one day on the grass knolls of Central Park,
the sons of Youk and the sons of Joba
will be able to sit together at the table of brotherhood.”
Ichiro is not collecting the 394 hits he’ll need to get 3000 hits as a Yankee if he signed with them through 2014, so signing him through 2014 thinking he’ll get #3000 as a Yankee (besides giving a guy who’s almost 40 two years guaranteed) is absurd. If he collects say 320 hits in 2013-14 for 2926 and really loves playing for the Yankees, he’ll take a cheap contract to get the 74 more hits he needs for 3000 with them in 2015, or he could always return to Seattle.
I’m annoyed at the Youkilis signing because the Yanks basically told Youkilis he’s twice as good as Reynolds by salary when he’s not. The Yanks should’ve waited to see what Reynolds would sign for then make an offer to Youkilis acccordingly because who else besides the Yanks was in serious pursuit of Youkilis, the Dodgers? Let him go to the other league as he’d be one less headache for Yankee pitchers. They stupidly bid against themselves offering another year and $12M contract to him (the first one being the Pettitte contract.)
Such a dumb, uncreative offseason by the Yanks save the Rivera and Kuroda re-signings. ‘Giving Pettitte $2M more than Mo and Youkilis double what Reynolds got and obviously not monitoring Reynolds’ activity.
Here’s what I would’ve done besides re-sign Rivera and Kuroda this offseason:
- Re-signed Melky Cabrera to a two-year $7M a year $14M total contract he’d have taken to be back in Yankee pinstripes.
- Signed Joakim Soria to the two-year $4M a year $8M total contract he signed with Texas for.
- Signed Jack Hannahan to a one-year $2M contract ($0.86M raise and a chance to play for a World Series contender.)
There. $13M spent on three quality players for 2013, not $12M on one (Youkilis.)
“But wait, there’s more!”
I’d have signed 3.14 ERA, WHIP under 1.2 in 2013 and the AL Scott Baker to the one-year $5.5M base + $1.5M incentives contract he signed with the lousy Cubs then offered Pettitte a year and $7.5M or triple his 2012 salary which is very respectful and respectable. That’d have been $13M and as much as $14.5M spent on two quality starting pitchers, not $12M on one (Pettitte.) Even if I had to give Pettitte $10M, ok, $15.5M and as much as $17M on two guys. The rotation would’ve been Sabathia/Kuroda/Hughes/Pettitte/Baker with Nova and Phelps as plenty of rotation insurance and either could be tradebait for a thirdbaseman or catcher.
I’d still be able to re-sign Ichiro, only for DH and to back up in LF and RF.
I’d also offer Chavez the year and $3M he took from the D-backs, have him share 3B with Hannahan, and have a bench of Stewart (backup C), Chavez (backup 1B/3B), Nix (backup 2B/SS), and an outfielder TBD.
Yankee Trader December 12th, 2012 at 9:43 am
I’m still not convinced that trading Granderson now is going to bring the Yankees a decent bunch of major league ready prospects, or an everyday outfielder.
————-
I think you could get Brown for Granderson… but I see what you’re saying.
I almost wonder if going the Soriano route wouldn’t be better.. give up very little and have some power in the OF to platoon with Ichiro.
Tom Dwan strikes again.
Repost:
J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 2:59 am
joel.sherman:
“Look, I think the Yankees should have re-signed Russell Martin and used their monetary might to win for versatile lefty killer Jeff Keppinger. But if they end up with Suzuki, Kevin Youkilis, Scott Hairston and Raul Ibanez, then they should still have lefty-righty diversity, probably a deep offense and no further clogging of their long-term financial arteries. It is one thing to scream the Yankees should spend, but if in this market they are not anteing up for Josh Hamilton — who may not want to leave Texas anyway — then who should they be spending on?”
Who they should have spent on seems obvious, Joel.
OF
age 28
SH
2012 slash line:
.346/.390/.516/.906
vs. LHP:
.395/.444/.617/.1.111
vs. RHP:
.327/.368/.458/.826
Can you guess who this is?? Hint: he’ll be playing in the AL East in 2013 and 2014 (for chump change).
Anybody else worried Napoli falls through and BOS signs Swisher?
You take the good,
You take the bad,
You take them both..
And there you have The Facts of Life.
The Facts of Life.
2/17 for Melky is way better than any two year dea for Ichiro……
I wonder if they are considering trading Gardner
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Blake-
The Yankees will probably get more for Gardner, despite the elbow injury on his non throwing arm than Granderson.
As I’ve commented before the Braves are still looking for a speed merchant batting 1st in front of Prado with Simmons toward the back of the line-up, and didn’t want to resign Boras client Bourn because of the $$$$’s.
Yes I do believe the Yankees are entertaining offers for Gardner when Ichiro is signed.
blake December 12th, 2012 at 9:35 am
How on earth can they be considering giving Ichiro two years with all this 189 stuff…..and how
Also can they justify giving him nearly the same money that Melky signed for?
///
Melky is ‘tainted’. Can’t have that.
Cashmoney December 12th, 2012 at 9:47 am
“I have a dream that one day on the grass knolls of Central Park,
the sons of Youk and the sons of Joba
will be able to sit together at the table of brotherhood.”
///
JAP – Again, it is really amazing that NO ONE points out the moves that could have been made last off season. It’s like it didn’t happen. Like the Yankees just found out they’d have all these holes and had no way to predict they’d appear out of nowhere.
I don’t want to hear that Arod’s surgery changed everything. It changed nothing. The guy wasn’t starting 100 games at 3B in 2013.
They had more options last year to make moves and capitalize on the value of the guys they had (we suggested moving Swisher and signing Beltran so you could get value for Swish who you knew was leaving, we suggested moving Granderson while his value was through the roof, etc) so suggesting that this market is awful is a fine statement to make, because it’s true.. but it’s also true that the Yankees weren’t proactive at all and used no creative thinking last year to put themselves in a better position to wheel and deal this year.
The Yankees should explore a trade with the Phillies for 25 game suspended Carlos Ruiz. Perfect one year fit as catcher for a veteran staff of CC, Kuroda, and Pettitte who can’t be too enamored having to work with a tandem of Cervelli and Stewart.
@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: Too strong to say #RedSox’s deal with Napoli is in “jeopardy.” Some issues still to work through.
@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: Too strong to say #RedSox’s deal with Napoli is in “jeopardy.” Some issues still to work through.
*****
que clown car – - – -
‘They’ll still have to fill a ton of holes next year and cut salary big time: 3B, DH, 2 OF spots (maybe a kid can take one so you only need to find 1 instead), 2B, and possibly’
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Exactly why Cano and Grandy should be dealt coupled with NO ml talent that will be ML ready
errr queueue – - – -errr queit – - — errr queueeeee – - – -errrrr – - – -
Too many question marks now on Granderson:
Can he hit for average vs the shift?
Where have the stolen bases gone, the triples, his speed?
Can he hit homers away from YS?
Why the increasing rate of strikeouts-his vision proved OK?
Is he still a CF’er or a corner outfielder?
More mportantly if I’m another teams GM why do I want him as a one year rental with his declining numbers?
He might be worth more if he rebounds in season.
JAP – Again, it is really amazing that NO ONE points out the moves that could have been made last off season. It’s like it didn’t happen. Like the Yankees just found out they’d have all these holes and had no way to predict they’d appear out of nowhere.
///
Yes, but I was referring to THIS offseason. Melky should not be hitting in front of Joey Bats this season.
I would also say that my reasons for continuing to invoke the names of Melky, Austin Jackson and Montero are extremely valid, for the very reason you point out; although that’s not consistent with your comment (I saw in retrospect) that I needed to “move on, lol,” because keeping those 3 would have been relatively cheap, and the Yankees would have a tremendous lineup today had those guys been kept here. Only Melky was going to arb when they dealt him; and he got like 3 mil.
The moves you make or don’t make are the map which is easy to follow to see how it leads to the present, and future. This is why I cannot stomach posts that Cashman is merely Hal’s puppet and “what can he do?!” For starters, he could have kept 3, 2, 1 of those three young bats?
Setting that aside, passing on Melky AGAIN, considering our problems that Cashman effectively created by dispatching all three of those guys ( let’s not even get INTO what must have been some wishy washy advocacy, if any advocacy at all, for Cespedes), is frankly ludicrous.
Morosi’s article refenced earlier is spot on. Nearly $50M spent on one year contracts without making the team any better. In fact, they are older and worse than last year.
How is it better to spend $12M for one year of Youkilis when you could have had Keppinger for the same money for three years? At this point, I am not sure Youkilis is a better bet. With Keppinger they could have had a second or third baseman for 2014-2015, or at the very least a capable utility infielder to rest the aging infielders.
Or they could have just traded them if they really didn’t want to spend 4 million on Keppy in 2014.
If they are so enamored with the potential marketing money of Ichiro in 2014, why didn’t they just post for Darvish, who brings his own marketing money and is actually in his prime & very good?
Morosi’s point is stupid and misleading.
The Yanks spent most of that money to RETAIN their free agents, not add to last year’s team.
If his point is they spent $ 49 M and are not any better than before they spent the money fine, but that would underscore what an idiotic position he’s taking.
Are the 2013 Yanks better without Kuroda, Rivera, Pettitte and Youkilis?
why didn’t they just post for Darvish, who brings his own marketing money and is actually in his prime & very good?
———————
That would require thinking ahead and they don’t do that
If they are so enamored with the potential marketing money of Ichiro in 2014, why didn’t they just post for Darvish, who brings his own marketing money and is actually in his prime & very good?
*************************************************************************
Maybe because one might cost $ 15 M and the other cost $ 107 M?
If not Darvish, at least make a play for Chapman and Cespedes.
How is it better to spend $12M for one year of Youkilis when you could have had Keppinger for the same money for three years? At this point, I am not sure Youkilis is a better bet. With Keppinger they could have had a second or third baseman for 2014-2015, or at the very least a capable utility infielder to rest the aging infielders.
———–
Mac, that’s an interesting question. for my money, Youk’s upside is much higher than Keppinger for 13 purpose only. as for 14 and 15, I think adam, mustelier forms a much cheaper options to fill those roles than keppinger. I have come to conclusion that Yanks needs to rebuild hence having a keppinger on the team is not vital when one approach from that train of thought. What the Yanks are thinking are unbeknownst to me….
Cashman could be flying by the seat of his pants right now. On Morosi, he ought to consider Yanks are a lot worse if they did not spent that 50 mils.
The 2013 team will be competitve ….I think they are carrying serious risk of missing the playoffs unless they address the offense….. But their pitching should keep them in the mix if healthy….
The issue everyone in the media is essentially ignoring is that life beyond 2013 is looking extremely bleak…..this far they have done absolutely nothing to position themselves for being competitive in 2014 and beyond…..
So at the moment it seems the plan is to bring back the OLD gang and hope that what wasn’t good enough last year will be good enough this year
“Morosi’s point is stupid and misleading.”
I think it’s dead on…..they have done nothing so far to actually improve the club over 2012 and it’s probably worse to be honest at the moment….
.everyone is a year older and they have replaced Swisher in the lineup with Youkalis and have replaced Martin with Nobody……
JF-
After the Yankees are done this offseason the opening day payroll might surpass the 213M plus opening day 2010 payroll.
@JonHeymanCBS: #redsox will now turn to starting pitcherrs. will look at everyone from anibal & lohse on down. seek value.
The Yanks spent most of that money to RETAIN their free agents, not add to last year’s team.
If his point is they spent $ 49 M and are not any better than before they spent the money fine, but that would underscore what an idiotic position he’s taking.
Are the 2013 Yanks better without Kuroda, Rivera, Pettitte and Youkilis?
–
They retained players for more money than they cost last year, and added youkilis (who obviously was not retained). The point is perfectly valid. They are almost at the high point for opening day budgets & the only new player they have is Youkilis, and there are still gaping holes on the roster.
They are thinking of going 2 years with Ichiro?
What in the world is going on in the Bronx?
How Does Signing Youkilis Impact the AL East?
http://www.rlyw.net/
Blake-
The 2013 team will be competitive IF the 3 main starters hold up and pitch deep into games, the bullpen remains cosistent, and if the Yankees can “manufacture” runs when down by a run in the late innings.
Can they get the 93 wins it might take to get into the playoffs?
Yes I think they can, if they stay healthy and ARod plus Pineda return to near dominance-two very big IFs, three if you count staying healthy!
blake, it’s the end of world if they miss playoff in 14, the future is not that bleak except one can rational assume 14 or possibly 15 can serve as transitional years with vital cogs getting old and get old too quickly.
Jerk, they certainly retain players they absolute needed to contend in 13 in the form of kuroda and AP. what’s morosi point? not to spend and have more holes even than it’s currently constructed?
“Can they get the 93 wins it might take to get into the playoffs?”
I think they can yes….but my point is that a team that “might” can hold together enough to make the postseason is good enough when they are about to slash payroll and have no real plan to compete beyond 2013……
LGY-
So if Youkilis can match the 509 plate appearances of last season, we’re in the playoffs as a wild card. LOL
LGY December 12th, 2012 at 10:26 am
How Does Signing Youkilis Impact the AL East?
http://www.rlyw.net/
—
can I see the math on that?
“blake, it’s the end of world if they miss playoff in 14, the future is not that bleak except one can rational assume 14 or possibly 15 can serve as transitional years with vital cogs getting old and get old too quickly.”
No….but I think missing in 2014 could turn into several years in a row of not being very good and that wouldn’t be cool.
None of those big name free agents in 2015 are going to become FAs most likely…..
Shame -
trisha – true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2012 at 3:29 am
They only had Pettitte for 12 starts last year. So hopefully “merely” retaining him is an upgrade.
Also, you can hope for more than 123 games from Tex, CC is healthier, Gardner is back…
EVERYBODY is assuming that the Rangers want Hamilton back, and that he wants to return. THAT, may Not be the case. The Blowup between Hamilton and Washington during the Playoffs, may have been festering for a while. Public displays like that from Pro’s, just do Not pop-up instantaneously. TO BE CONTINUED ???
Even if you call swisher for Gardner a wash in the lineup…..the Yankees currently are worse at 3B….worse at catcher…..and worse at DH than they were opening day a year ago….and Jeter is coming off ankle surgery.
Still time to change that and hopefully they will
I think it will take 2 years blake and i think it’s a needed process. I don’t think CAshman is the best person to execute a transitional plan or rebuilding whichever you wanna call it.
Have to go. As always it’s been a pleasure.
Now that RF is close to being filled, I guess any other excitement for the Yankees might be a trade for a catcher that will actually help hold down the other teams speed on the basepaths and not allow too many passed balls[Stewart] or can frame the pitches without being so fidgety[Cervelli], or actually make the squad out of ST[Romine} and stay healthy.
Have a great day everyone.
Until later.
“Cashmoney says:
December 12, 2012 at 10:39 am
I think it will take 2 years blake and i think it’s a needed process. I don’t think CAshman is the best person to execute a transitional plan or rebuilding whichever you wanna call it.”
They do have position player prospects coming and they will need a few of those to pan out ….also they need badly for Pineda and Banuelos and one of Campos….Depaula etc to work.
My issue is that the Yanks seem to be neither positioning for the future or going all out this year…..if they are going to cut back spending and go young next year then fine…..but at least go all in for 2013..
Morosi could have written a more cogent article by pointing out that Yanks are farked royally over by Tex and Arod are contributing a fraction of what they were paid for and mostly trending downward with further diminishing return in the years coming.
I want to see they have a plan for Cano for instance….,letting him reach free agency and then seeing what happens isnt a plan….
I really hope that the Yanks don’t give Ichiro a 2 year deal. 1 year with an option fine but don’t gurantee the 2nd year. If they do this deal smells of Randy Levine and Hal calculating how much money they can make off of him if he hits 3,000 hits in a yankee uniform. The guy is 39 and giving him 2 years would make absolutely no sense on the field but of course it makes sense for them $$$ wise which is all Hal cares about now.
Once again, the Indians have been flim-flamed. I like Stubbs, but currently the guy issa reclamation project. The Injuns made a horrible deal for Ubaldo and Now this. I shudder to think what they will end up getting for Asdrubal, whenever they Give him away.
OT
Santa Vs Moses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kRAKXFrYQ4
Disclaimer: this may contain inappropriate for some Lohudders.
Saw in passing Dom Brown’s name come up.
He has the worst swing in the world and runs godawful routes on the corners.
He’s toolsy but his toolsiness needs some serious retooling. If they were to get him, I would not accept him as a main piece back for Granderson. He’d have to be the “depth” part of any package.
DavidWaldstein Yanks & Ichiro closing in on deal. Could be one year, could be one + an option for 14, and could even be two years if affordable price…
Creative would be offering Hamilton a 4 or 5 year deal that’s backloaded with an opt out after year one.
Say offer him 4/100…..structured so that he’s paid 30 million in year one and then 70 over the final 3 years.
Hamilton would have security and if he had a good 2013 then he could certainly beat 3/70 on the open market and he’d probably opt out and you could focus on Cano again if you wanted…..
Any potential deal with Hamilton would have to include protections – i.e. if he fails a drug test, does not play a certain amount of games, etc. – - – -
Donnybrook, some might find the term “Injuns” a bit offensive.
The Return of Stoneburner says:
December 12, 2012 at 10:50 am
Any potential deal with Hamilton would have to include protections – i.e. if he fails a drug test, does not play a certain amount of games, etc. – – – -
Of course
I am sure that Texas and Hamilton will agree to a deal anyday now since they can’t get Upton. So talking about Hamilton and the Yanks is just a waste of time. Too bad since it made a lot of sense. But now Hal is too busy wondering how much $$ he can make off of Ichiro’s 3,000th hit.
it’s pretty obvious the yankees are on a serious downward spiral with hal and his long range austerity plan.
the proper response of fans should be to vote with their feet
but as you see here on the blog, people are hooked on the action.
kind of in an opiate for the masses kind of way.
all this does is enable hal to drag out the downward spiral.
fans should simply show their displeasure by going the other direction.
in other words, i think the best way to be a yankee fan is to walk away.
force ownership to sell.
no one person can do it, but eventually fan disinterest is what makes change.
realistically this is going to take awhile.
probably a good time to be more of a baseball fan than an active yankee fan.
montero was the final straw for me. i watched half what i usually watch last year even though i knew they’d make the playoffs.
i spend zero money on the yankees. they remind me that rooting for a sports team and wasting all that time is kind of a silly thing to do when you think about it.
that just can’t be a good thing for an organization to do.
i don’t think i’m alone either.
and that’s their real problem.
Captain Clutch December 12th, 2012 at 10:53 am
I am sure that Texas and Hamilton will agree to a deal anyday now since they can’t get Upton. So talking about Hamilton and the Yanks is just a waste of time. Too bad since it made a lot of sense. But now Hal is too busy wondering how much $$ he can make off of Ichiro’s 3,000th hit.
———————
He was probably always going back there to be honest especially if it’s true that he will only them to match or come close to any offer he receives.
Whoever wants and needs Hamilton more will probably get him. The Rangers and Mariners want him more and need him more than the Yankees.
Sure would be nice to have a 22 year old RH bat with upside in the lineup…. Even if it was at DH
blake December 12th, 2012 at 11:00 am
Sure would be nice to have a 22 year old RH bat with upside in the lineup…. Even if it was at DH
————————-
It would have been exciting to see him develop as a hitter but that is gone now.
If the money and years are relatively close, Hamilton will go back to Texas. If someone decides to make a crazy offer or guarantee 6-7 years, Hamilton probably will go to that team. Had this been 2008 or earlier, the Yankees undoubtedly would have already made a 6 year $150 million offer and waited to see if Hamilton could get a better one. Now — at most I see a 4 year $100 million offer.
Sure would be nice to have a young ace in the rotation too… but anyway…
I fully support the Yankees stance on Hamilton. Sign him if the market erodes and the opportunity arises, but don’t break the bank on him. He’d be a nice addition at our price, but he’s simply too risky for much else. That’s the reality.
He was probably always going back there to be honest especially if it’s true that he will only them to match or come close to any offer he receives.
——————–
Yeah I figured he was going back this whole time. I am sure his advisors are telling him that he should stay where he was comfortable. I doubt they would want him in a place like NY, Boston or even Philly.
Captain Clutch December 12th, 2012 at 11:06 am
He was probably always going back there to be honest especially if it’s true that he will only them to match or come close to any offer he receives.
——————–
Yeah I figured he was going back this whole time. I am sure his advisors are telling him that he should stay where he was comfortable. I doubt they would want him in a place like NY, Boston or even Philly.
————-
allow not only sorry for the typo
Yes his advisors have probably been doing that throughout the whole process.
I’m good at spending other peoples money.
Signed LoHud.
what would be interesting to see with the yankees is making a commitment to it’s young players.
follow through on development.
go with montero and romine in 2013.
watch austin jackson develop.
let melky mature as a yankee.
commit to young pitchers like banuelos.
if all these young players don’t work out, who’s fault is that?
at some point the organization has to look at itself .
it’s pretty obvious the yankees played their cards wrong with young players in the last five years.
so they are reduced to paying twelve million to youkillis for one year.
they could have sent nunez down to play just third base where he’d likely be needed.
but no they send him down to play only shortstop.
and that accomplished what?
makes no sense.
no more sense than trading for granderson whe there was no way of resigning him if he did well.
they should have just kept jackson in that case.
memo to hal.
nothing cements fandom more than following a young player as he breaks in and knowing he’s part of the future.
who are the yankees breaking in this year?
oh.
randy l. December 12th, 2012 at 10:56 am
it’s pretty obvious the yankees are on a serious downward spiral with hal and his long range austerity plan.
the proper response of fans should be to vote with their feet
but as you see here on the blog, people are hooked on the action.
kind of in an opiate for the masses kind of way.
all this does is enable hal to drag out the downward spiral.
fans should simply show their displeasure by going the other direction.
in other words, i think the best way to be a yankee fan is to walk away.
force ownership to sell.
no one person can do it, but eventually fan disinterest is what makes change.
realistically this is going to take awhile.
probably a good time to be more of a baseball fan than an active yankee fan.
montero was the final straw for me. i watched half what i usually watch last year even though i knew they’d make the playoffs.
i spend zero money on the yankees. they remind me that rooting for a sports team and wasting all that time is kind of a silly thing to do when you think about it.
that just can’t be a good thing for an organization to do.
i don’t think i’m alone either.
and that’s their real problem.
===========
Dead to rights.
who are the yankees breaking in this year?
—————
Maybe Adams
Sure would be nice to have a 22 year old RH bat with upside in the lineup…. Even if it was at DH
****
23 now – - – -
Hal is not a baseball fan. Doesn’t care if his team is in the World Series. Watches his money.
Yankees will sign Hairston or Ross, whoever is cheaper. Then their done.
I think some of the critics here should think about something.
Perhaps the best move made in the off-season is the move that is not made.
Chew on that for awhile.
MaineYankee says:
December 12, 2012 at 11:22 am
I’m good at spending other peoples money.
We don’t have to give you your money…..signed the fans
Very funny. I got the snide remark about Chad Gaudin. He must have family in the Yankees or know something damaging about the mgt, but even he may have worn out his welcome.
“I’m good at spending other peoples money.
Signed LoHud.”
maine yankee-
oh really. what do you know about yankee money? i bet you spent as much on the yankees as i did last year.
that would be zero
yankeefeminista spends more money on the yankees in a year than we do in a lifetime.
so i think people like her should have some right to comment about yankee money.
and judging by what others say, there’s some serious money spent by this blog on the yankees.
you and i are the slackers.
we’re hal’s worst nightmare.
no revenue stream.
of course if he was the brilliant businessman he is supposed to be he’d figure out a way to monetize you and me.
you get any emails from the yankees? me neither. why not?
i signed up for one obama something and stephanie cutter still sends me emails even after the election even after i’ve unsubscribed.
but you have to give her credit. she’s trying.
is hank and hal.
nope.
no emails from them.
who do you think the future belongs to?
i’ll give you a hint .
it ain’t hal.
Are paragraphs your worst nightmare?
blake
How do the bottom feeders stay in businees if they have no fans?
Are you content with the Yankees helping payroll the competion?
“How do the bottom feeders stay in businees if they have no fans?”
Revenue sharing and being not very good
I mean of some fans are fine with the Yankees just being another team just fair enough…..
The Indians could still trade Asdrubal Cabrera, Justin Masterson and Vinnie Pestano, as Olney points out (on Twitter). There’s “not much action” on Chris Perez, however.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#JHVtir6PAgLeLfdK.99
randy
So how much I spend determines how much of a fan I am?
I donated to Special Olympics once 7yrs ago and still get request.
Does that make me better than some that never donated?
“Are you content with the Yankees helping payroll the competion?”
I am fine with them trying to get under the cap when they are capable of doing so and still winning…..or if they show that they can run themselves efficiently to make it work…..
Are you content with the Yankees helping payroll the competion?
–
The luxury tax doesn’t payroll the competition. Revenue sharing is not going away. The Yankees profits increase as baseballs profits increase, so paying money back into the system BENEFITS the Yankees. They are not a restaurant, or a telephone provider, or a clothing store. They are part of a giant monopoly where a group of teams succeed together. The Red Sox are their opponent on the field, but an ally in building excitement for games which sell lots of tickets, and for TV which sells lots of ads.
@BNightengale: Remember, with all these Josh Hamilton rumors, the #Rangers will get the last crack on him. They have not gotten that call.
So they don’t have Montero. Yeah, it hurts. Who knows what happens with Pineda.
They don’t have Austin Jackson. Did Granderson help them win the WS? I didn’t think so–yet.
That’s all water under the bridge.
Time for Tex to step it up, be smart, and carry the team. It’s his turn to earn his money. Will he?
I still prefer the Sizemore gamble vs signing Ichiro. Not that Ichiro issa Bum or anything like that, but the risk-reward with Sizemore merits the flyer. Get a Team 2nd yr option with Sizemore and take the plunge. I would still sign Hairston assa 4th OF’er, but Not assa straight platoon with Sizemore. It might work out that way over the course of the season, but that would Not be my intention outta the gate.
Probably not because Tex is exiting his prime and hasn’t made the adjustments to his bat speed slowing down.
Phillies officials have privately maintained that they’d be prepared to offer Josh Hamilton a three-year deal.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#JHVtir6PAgLeLfdK.99
“Time for Tex to step it up, be smart, and carry the team. It’s his turn to earn his money. Will he?”
I’m not sure the player they signed him to be is still in there….he could be better than last year with better health….but I think his swing and physical decline have made the guy he was in 2009 highly unlikely
Sizemore gamble
–
Huge gamble, he had microfracture surgery again on his legs and is out for the start of the season until question marks. He just can’t stay healthy.
JAP – I think you misunderstood my ‘moving on’ comment.. that was referencing what I would be doing not what others should do. I just figure my personal statute of limitations will be anything that took place before last off seasons moves (Ajax) since it was only last year that the new CBA was introduced. Do I think they were planning this course of action regardless of the CBA? Yes. But the CBA is the excuse so I figure only judging them based on what they did once they realized that they would be playing by new rules is fair.
Ichiro is at least very durable…..You couldn’t count in Sizemore at all….he’s the definition of mr. Glass
The Yanks just need Tex to keep his homers and RBI’s up. Expecting him to be a .290-.300 hitter again probably is unreasonable looking at his trends recently. .260 with 35 homers and 115 RBI’s with gold glove defense is more than fine with me.
trisha – true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2012 at 3:29 am
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
——————
Ahahahahahaha, greatest post ever.
BTW, trisha, they just told you it was tobacco so they could hang onto it
Party at the precincts!!
A-Rod = Mr Glass. Sizemore = Mr Windex. Gonna cleanup Everything in RF. Unlike that Clown that preceeded him.
The Yanks just need Tex to keep his homers and RBI’s up. Expecting him to be a .290-.300 hitter again probably is unreasonable looking at his trends recently. .260 with 35 homers and 115 RBI’s with gold glove defense is more than fine with me.
*****
Sounds like a plan – - – -
The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 12:02 pm
The Yanks just need Tex to keep his homers and RBI’s up. Expecting him to be a .290-.300 hitter again probably is unreasonable looking at his trends recently. .260 with 35 homers and 115 RBI’s with gold glove defense is more than fine with me.
*****
Sounds like a plan – – – -
————————————————————————
Lol, yeah it’s a lock now that I said it.
Again – the entire baseball world has been trying to tell the Yankees how to spend their money for over a decade.. Whether you want them to spend more or spend less, you’re still trying to dictate how much they spend.
“So how much I spend determines how much of a fan I am?”
listen bullwinkle-
(gb7 tribute phrase)
YOU are the one who brought up money.
YOU are the one who questioned people being concerned with how hal spends.
you seem to be saying they have no right.
these fans spend a whole lot of money who you are are saying should not complain.
guess what. these fans are what are keeping the yankees going.
we’ve already figured it out that it isn’t you or me.
you and i both gave more to the red sox by going to portland sea dog games
” .260 with 35 homers and 115 RBI’s with gold glove defense is more than fine with me.”
He hasn’t hit .260 since 2009
randy
I’ve been to Yankee Stadium twice in 60 yrs. I call that support.
:
Lol, yeah it’s a lock now that I said it.
****
So you said, so it shall be done – - – -
randy
you and i both gave more to the red sox by going to portland sea dog games
—————————————————————————–
Doesn’t Trenton share in the revenue?
“trisha – true pinstriped blue December 12th, 2012 at 3:29 am”
———————————-
Seems like a lot of complaining in this post and not much appreciation for the team. Your parents must not have done a very good job. Don’t be such a self-entitled baby.
That’s what you get for coming on here and wishing that I was dead. Karma got ya.
Enjoy looking at that face!! HAHAHAHA
What are the Yankees really trying to achieve in 2013? This group of veterans may – and I stress the word may – be able to get them into the playoffs, providing the majority of them stay healthy, but there’s no way they are winning the World Series.
And seeing that’s the mantra of the whole organization, what’s the point of sticking your thumb in the dam when you know that even if it doesn’t burst in 2013, it sure as hell will the following year.
blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
” .260 with 35 homers and 115 RBI’s with gold glove defense is more than fine with me.”
He hasn’t hit .260 since 2009
————————————————————
He’s been around the .250′s though right? I think .260 is probably his ceiling in his best years. I’d even take .250/35/115. Just produce and get guys in with RISP. Make it a productive .250
Some of you guys have been dog-piling TEX for quite a while. How you can trash him for taking the $$$ is incredible, as any of us would have done likewise. He goes to the post EVERY day, and that head first dive into 1B in Baltimore was all I needed to see. The guy gives his All EVERY game. That is all you can ask of Any employee.
Watching the games on YES, or even Fox supports the team hth
If healthy I think tex could hit .250 with 30 homers and 100 RBIs…..and that’s fine for a complimentary piece to the lineup….the issue is that he’s making 23 million bucks and they are now on a budget where he’s not producing enough for the amount of payroll space he’s taking up…..
randy
On another note, let me know when you plan to go to a game in Portland so I can miss that game.
Tex is vastly overpaid for what he gives the team. He’s gone into decline a lot earlier than anyone could have predicted.
@mikeaxisa: List of free agents for next offseason: http://t.co/mA7PZT8D. Only one starting pitcher in his 20s.
2014 looking bleak
blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
If healthy I think tex could hit .250 with 30 homers and 100 RBIs…..and that’s fine for a complimentary piece to the lineup….the issue is that he’s making 23 million bucks and they are now on a budget where he’s not producing enough for the amount of payroll space he’s taking up…..
————————————————————————–
Can’t argue with any of this. I just don’t understand how his average dropped so quickly at an age that he should still be in peak performance. It was hard to envision this.
“They are part of a giant monopoly where a group of teams succeed together.”
post of the day
“Can’t argue with any of this. I just don’t understand how his average dropped so quickly at an age that he should still be in peak performance. It was hard to envision this.”
His LH swing has virtually no margin for error and even slight declines in physical ability are magnified…..basically when he was 25 he was so strong and fast that he could overcome the poor mechanics of his swing …. Now that he’s in his 30s it’s getting harder…..he doesn’t keep the bat in the zone long at all…..righty he’s a little shorter an flatter
Can’t argue with any of this. I just don’t understand how his average dropped so quickly at an age that he should still be in peak performance. It was hard to envision this.
—
Conventionally the peak is supposed to be 28-32 but recent (ish) studies have cast some doubt on that, showing that peak is more like 25-28