The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Is two years too many for Ichiro?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 12, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The market has clearly played itself to the point that Ichiro Suzuki is the Yankees best option for right field. Now the decision seems to hinge on what kind of contract to give him: One year, one year with an option, or two years?

Joel Sherman wrote this morning that the Yankees are considering a two-year deal largely because they’re intrigued by the idea of Ichiro reaching 3,000 hits as a Yankee. It could be a terrific marketing opportunity, a way to tap into the Japanese market with an iconic player, and based on last season’s jersey sales alone, it’s clear that Ichiro is still a potent money-maker. If this were strictly about spending money to make money, why not go for it?

But under the new financial restrictions, this isn’t all about spending money to make money. Taking a chance on Ichiro’s 3,000th hit – and going after the revenue it would create – would make it even harder to fit the Yankees payroll beneath the $189-million threshold next winter. The rules are different now, and the Yankees have been careful this winter to sign players with the new restrictions in mind. Chasing a money-making opportunity (especially one that’s a bit of a long shot) doesn’t seem to fit with anything else the Yankees have done this offseason.

Would Ichiro’s 3,000th hit generate enough revenue to make it worth breaking the $189-million ceiling in 2014? I can’t imagine that it would, and if it wouldn’t, I can’t imagine that it would be worth further limiting the team’s options going forward.

 
 

Advertisement

204 Responses to “Is two years too many for Ichiro?”

  1. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Yes it is too many

  2. Tyler December 12th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Tyler December 12th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
    blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    If healthy I think tex could hit .250 with 30 homers and 100 RBIs…..and that’s fine for a complimentary piece to the lineup….the issue is that he’s making 23 million bucks and they are now on a budget where he’s not producing enough for the amount of payroll space he’s taking up…..
    ————————————————————————–

    Can’t argue with any of this. I just don’t understand how his average dropped so quickly at an age that he should still be in peak performance. It was hard to envision this.

  3. Niblick December 12th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Given that Ichiro only has 2,606 hits, it would be virtually impossible for him to get to 3,000 in the next two years, anyway.

  4. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    @mikeaxisa: List of free agents for next offseason: http://t.co/mA7PZT8D. Only one starting pitcher in his 20s.

    2014 looking bleak

    —————–

    I don’t really wanna look… is Hughes the only guy in his 20s?

    *Sigh*

  5. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    blake says:
    December 12, 2012 at 12:14 pm
    “Can’t argue with any of this. I just don’t understand how his average dropped so quickly at an age that he should still be in peak performance. It was hard to envision this.”

    His LH swing has virtually no margin for error and even slight declines in physical ability are magnified…..basically when he was 25 he was so strong and fast that he could overcome the poor mechanics of his swing …. Now that he’s in his 30s it’s getting harder…..he doesn’t keep the bat in the zone long at all…..righty he’s a little shorter an flatter

  6. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    On the plus side, David DeJesus may be available…

  7. Tyler December 12th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    I love Ichiro but locking him in for 2 at this age doesn’t make much sense to me. This is a different scenario but the Yanks got burned chasing the revenue that A-Rod would generate with the homerun chase. Different situation but if Ichiro goes back to Seattle form and can’t hit lefties, having him on the books in 2014 will kill any bleak hope this team has to improve.

  8. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Yes…2 years for Ichiro is a bad idea if they are serious about 189 unless the AAV is like 4 million

  9. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    “I don’t really wanna look… is Hughes the only guy in his 20s?”

    Only decent one…..good luck filling out a big chuck of the rotation and half the spots in the lineup with that group and 40 million less dollars to spend

  10. jacksquat December 12th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    For Ichiro to reach 3000 within the next two years he would have to hit leadoff, play nearly every day, and hit over .300 both years.

    If this two year stuff is real, Levine must be in on this.

  11. Tyler December 12th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Considering the way they’ve operated so far during this offseason, they better be serious about the 189 or I have no idea what other motives they would have right now.

  12. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    @OldHossRadbourn: #75: J. Smoltz. Insightful opinions on bestiality. Had he but done his job, we would never again speak of J. Morris.

  13. ac1 December 12th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    The Yankees do actually have to field a baseball team in 2014. All of these 1 year contracts are great, but next year there are even more open spots than this year so yes i am ok with 2 for Ichiro.

    I still think they should consider Hamilton, understanding there is a chance Cano won’t resign.

  14. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    2/10 for Ichiro wouldn’t be horrible….anything more though they can’t do and a one year deal is by far better

  15. Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Yes Hughes is the only pitcher in his 20′s next free agent season. But there are some good ones in there that are right at 30. Josh Johnson, Tim Lincecum, Matt Garza, Ubaldo Jimenez, maybe Jon Lester

  16. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Patrick says:
    December 12, 2012 at 12:19 pm
    Yes Hughes is the only pitcher in his 20?s next free agent season. But there are some good ones in there that are right at 30. Josh Johnson, Tim Lincecum, Matt Garza, Ubaldo Jimenez, maybe Jon Lester

    How are they gonna pay any of them next winter when the real budget kicks in?

  17. Tyler December 12th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    ac1 December 12th, 2012 at 12:18 pm
    The Yankees do actually have to field a baseball team in 2014. All of these 1 year contracts are great, but next year there are even more open spots than this year so yes i am ok with 2 for Ichiro.

    I still think they should consider Hamilton, understanding there is a chance Cano won’t resign.
    —————————————————————————————-

    2 years for a 37 year old OF is a little risky though unless the AAV is great. He was much better as a Yank but I’d love to see how he does this year before locking in 2014.

  18. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Wonder if the Micheal Young situation and how they treated him last year has Hamilton less excited about returning to Texas than everyone thinks

  19. Tyler December 12th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Hopefully Pineda will start his throwing program by 2014. Then this will all be solved.

  20. brianlopez22 December 12th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    David Dejesus, Carlos Betran, Jesus Montero.

    phew, I got in the mandatoy mention for each of these.

    They will not pay any of these guys.
    I would rather spend my money on Josh Hamilton and trade Granderson, leaving the Yanks 12 mm in 2014.

  21. Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Some interesting position player targets next free agency … Nelson Cruz, Shin-Soo Choo, Brian McCann, Carlos Ruiz (who is shockingly old), Cano obviously, Ellsbury, Morse, Prado

  22. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Cj Wilson on radio now….players don’t seem to like Jon Daniels much….they all basically say he’s a saber nerd….actually that’s pretty much what Wilson just said.

  23. Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    How are they gonna pay any of them next winter when the real budget kicks in?

    They can’t. But we can dream, just like we can dream about Hamilton :( :(

  24. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Patrick says:
    December 12, 2012 at 12:23 pm
    Some interesting position player targets next free agency … Nelson Cruz, Shin-Soo Choo, Brian McCann, Carlos Ruiz (who is shockingly old), Cano obviously, Ellsbury, Morse, Prado

    How are they gonna pay any of them?

  25. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    “I don’t really wanna look… is Hughes the only guy in his 20s?”

    Only decent one…..good luck filling out a big chuck of the rotation and half the spots in the lineup with that group and 40 million less dollars to spend

    ——————-

    Yeah.. the position players (3B, 2B) available aren’t much more attractive.

    Thank god for David DeJesus, or we might not have a damn thing to talk about next winter :D

  26. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    I think Choo is gonna destroy in Cincy in that lineup

  27. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    is Hughes the only guy in his 20s?

    ——————

    Yes Only starting pitcher

    Only relievers are Boonie and Jesse Litsch

    only position players are:
    Jesus Flores
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia
    Alexi Casilla
    Carlos Gomez

  28. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    How are they gonna pay any of them next winter when the real budget kicks in?

    They can’t. But we can dream, just like we can dream about Hamilton :( :(

    ————-

    I’m gonna need to do an extensive re-up on my gifs to handle next off season.. I know Oprah has a lot of faces she can offer up to describe my feelings I just need to find the right ones..

  29. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Rival exec: “I think TEX can get Upton if they do Andrus. I don’t think KT will do it for less.” Towers says moving Upton “highly unlikely.”

    So nothing had changed…. They were never getting him without giving Andrus or Profar

  30. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    How are they gonna pay any of them?

    ——————-

    They aren’t

  31. Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    “How are they gonna pay any of them next winter when the real budget kicks in?”

    They can’t. But we can dream, just like we can dream about Hamilton

    “How are they gonna pay any of them?”

    Same answer ….. Yanks are basically screwed from 2014 – 2017 if this budget is for real. Unless Cash gets super lucky with prospects and trades. SUPER lucky

  32. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    That’s why Hughes is gonna get PAID if he has a good year in 2013…..

  33. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Cj Wilson on radio now….players don’t seem to like Jon Daniels much….they all basically say he’s a saber nerd….actually that’s pretty much what Wilson just said.

    —————

    Ahahahahahaha… I wonder if Texas opts to sign Swish instead of Hamilton and just locks up a starter…

  34. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Pooh: “Have you ever had one of those days when you just can’t win, Eeyore?”

    Eeyore: “Yup, I know how that feels.”

  35. Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    I’m gonna need to do an extensive re-up on my gifs to handle next off season.. I know Oprah has a lot of faces she can offer up to describe my feelings I just need to find the right ones..

    Oh don’t worry I got them all queued up. Next big gif posting event (after the Yanks of course die in the 2013 ALDS) is for when Cano signs with LA.

  36. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    “Same answer ….. Yanks are basically screwed from 2014 – 2017 if this budget is for real. Unless Cash gets super lucky with prospects and trades. SUPER lucky”

    Yes…..which is why I keep saying to sign Hamilton, trade Grandy for the best offer, and plan on letting Cano walk……go all in for 2013 cause it may be their best shot at a title for awhile

  37. The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    Cj Wilson on radio now….players don’t seem to like Jon Daniels much….they all basically say he’s a saber nerd….actually that’s pretty much what Wilson just said.

    *****

    Daniels and Ron Washington clashed in September – Daniels wanted Profar played more – Washington was loyal to his 2010 and 2011 guys like Michael Young. Additionally, Rangers front office did not like Hamilton’s act this year and had grown old of it – particularly Nolan – who has since tried to clarify his comments about Josh picking the wrong time to quit tobaco.

  38. The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    CJ Wilson was also not very popular in the clubhouse with some apparently – - – -

  39. brianlopez22 December 12th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    blake -

    If Hughes has a great year. Good for him.
    We just back fill with Nova or anyone from the minors (hopefully Banuelos).

    My question is:
    If we don’t sign Hamilton, what does Cano have to look forward to in his walk year?

    aging Tex OR old man ARod hitting behind him?
    Why wouldn’t he just go to LAD where they have an All-Star team?

  40. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    CJ Wilson was also not very popular in the clubhouse with some apparently – – – -

    —————–

    He’s kind of an off beat guy

  41. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    You gonna talk Hamilton, forget Young, and focus on that Dugout Flareup. That don’t come outta nowhere. That is something that builds in the clubhouse and eventually boils over into what we saw in that playoff game.

  42. Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Jon Daniels is one of the best GM’s in the sport, CJ is just butt hurt that Daniels didn’t want to pay ace money to a #3 starter.

  43. The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
    The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    CJ Wilson was also not very popular in the clubhouse with some apparently – – – -

    —————–

    He’s kind of an off beat guy

    *****

    Yeah. I am just glad I do not have to hear anymore on my drive home on the local sports radio here in Dallas – “Home to your back-to-back American League Champions – the Texas Rangers” – - – -

  44. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    We just back fill with Nova or anyone from the minors (hopefully Banuelos).

    ——————-

    No shot that happens.

  45. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    Maybe a guy like Warren can step in though.. Banuelos is a crazy longshot though.

  46. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    The Rangers choked on the bone 2 times, when within a strike of becoming champs. They are a frustrated group that has Now been overtaken by the A’s. Boo Hoo

  47. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    “My question is:
    If we don’t sign Hamilton, what does Cano have to look forward to in his walk year?”

    A lot of money

  48. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Patrick says:
    December 12, 2012 at 12:30 pm
    Jon Daniels is one of the best GM’s in the sport, CJ is just butt hurt that Daniels didn’t want to pay ace money to a #3 starter.

    I think Daniels is a great GM but it does seem he may have some communication issues with players

  49. Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Yes…..which is why I keep saying to sign Hamilton, trade Grandy for the best offer, and plan on letting Cano walk……go all in for 2013 cause it may be their best shot at a title for awhile

    I know .. I still am not convinced that’s the right way to fix the team’s problems. Signing contracts like Hamilton is what got the Yankees in this mess. Big money, old and in decline, etc.

    There is a way to help the future of this team, but Cashman is basically trying to compete year to year at this point. I’m not even sure this would be smart but what he could do is basically punt this season and go full rebuild mode. Trade Cano, Granderson, Hughes, then wait until the trade deadline and deal all the 1 year contracts – Kuroda, Pettitte, Rivera, Youkilis, Ichiro.

    The only issue with this approach is the team would still be stuck with Teixeira and A-rod’s contracts so it really limits flexibility no matter how much they want to rebuild. And of course the Yanks would finish in last place for probably 2 years. Cashman would also get fired probably…

  50. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
    Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
    The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    CJ Wilson was also not very popular in the clubhouse with some apparently – – – -

    —————–

    He’s kind of an off beat guy

    *****

    Yeah. I am just glad I do not have to hear anymore on my drive home on the local sports radio here in Dallas – “Home to your back-to-back American League Champions – the Texas Rangers” – – – -

    ———————-

    Everything works out for the best :D

  51. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    @OldHossRadbourn: #71: “Pudge” Rodriguez: A perfectly acceptable 1999 AL MVP assuming the untimely deaths of P. Martinez, R. Alomar, M. Ramirez, and D. Jeter.

  52. Tyler December 12th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Daniels is really good GM but I’m not so sure his people skills are very good.

  53. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    “I know .. I still am not convinced that’s the right way to fix the team’s problems. Signing contracts like Hamilton is what got the Yankees in this mess. Big money, old and in decline, etc.”

    If its a 4 or 5 year deal then I think it’d be fine….now I wouldn’t go past that

  54. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #RedSox, Dempster in serious discussions. No deal yet; still possible he could sign elsewhere.

  55. ac1 December 12th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    Yes…..which is why I keep saying to sign Hamilton, trade Grandy for the best offer, and plan on letting Cano walk……go all in for 2013 cause it may be their best shot at a title for awhile

    _____

    I agree with Blake….
    This makes the most sense.
    Cano is going to walk.

  56. ac1 December 12th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #RedSox, Dempster in serious discussions. No deal yet; still possible he could sign elsewhere.
    ____

    HAHAHHAHA like the olden days where the Yankees bid against themselves. He already turned down a 2/25 offer from the Sox. He will also get crushed vs. the AL East offenses (even ours)…

  57. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    If the Yankees aren’t prepared to give Cano 200 million bucks then they need to position themselves to let him go

  58. Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #RedSox, Dempster in serious discussions. No deal yet; still possible he could sign elsewhere.

    I hope he goes to the Red Sox. He will get eaten alive in the AL East IMO

  59. Mike in Harrisburg December 12th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    I don’t mind rebuilding, I don’t mind going all in on 2013. I don’t mind reining in spending and focusing on a youth movement.

    What bothers me is that the FO seems to be making schizophrenic, halfway attempts to pursue each strategy simultaneously.

  60. ac1 December 12th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    If the Yankees aren’t prepared to give Cano 200 million bucks then they need to position themselves to let him go
    ____

    I believe Cano will likely end up in LA in 2014…… Maybe the Tigers? But more likely the Dodgers. The Yankees will NOT give him 8/200 and he didnt sign with Boras to take a Yankees discount.

  61. The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    Now that they’ve traded Vance Worley to Minnesota, the Phillies need to add to their starting rotation. But don’t expect them to spend on a prominent free agent starter such as Ryan Dempster or Edwin Jackson. Instead, Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer reports, they’re looking to sign a pitcher to a one-year deal.

    “We’ll probably look to add a low-risk, high-reward type of guy, or somebody’s who’s come back from an injury, or someone like that who can battle for that fifth spot,” general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said this weekend.

    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#L1eMua4OlEeyjqFR.99

    *****

    Hey Yanks have some of those – and Granderson – though I am not sure what I would want from the Phillies (scratching my head) – - – -

  62. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    If the Yankees aren’t prepared to give Cano 200 million bucks then they need to position themselves to let him go

    ————————-

    I’m not sure what they’re doing with him… I can’t tell if they’re doing all these one year contracts to try and keep him or what.. but I don’t see how they can fill out the rotation, OF, and 3B while also giving him $20 mil per year.

  63. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    i agree with blake. i think the yankees should be approaching cano about an extension and feeling out the market for him in a trade.

    i think ultimately they intend to sign him but they should be exploging all options and they shouldn’t allow him and his agent (im guessing it’s boras) to hold them over a barrel.

  64. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    I believe Cano will likely end up in LA in 2014…… Maybe the Tigers? But more likely the Dodgers.

    ——————

    I think the Dodgers, Tigers, and Texas could all be in on him..

    I wonder what kind of deal Andrus will get.

  65. ac1 December 12th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Hey Yanks have some of those – and Granderson – though I am not sure what I would want from the Phillies (scratching my head) – – – -
    ___

    Roy Halladay…. (1 year left)
    Otherwise they have nothing we want or need…

  66. blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    http://m.gizmodo.com/5967523/m.....ually-suck

    For all the nerds out there…. The newest Man if Steel trailer. Definately has a “dark knight” feel to it …

  67. ac1 December 12th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    i agree with blake. i think the yankees should be approaching cano about an extension and feeling out the market for him in a trade.

    i think ultimately they intend to sign him but they should be exploging all options and they shouldn’t allow him and his agent (im guessing it’s boras) to hold them over a barrel

    ___

    They did. He says he wants free agency. Boras is his agent so that doesn’t help.
    They should try to trade granderson…

  68. DJ55 December 12th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Sucks.

  69. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    the yankees took a hit in the last cba and are playing along with what was decided. however in the next cba, they should push to have long-term contracts count vs. the cap in some other way than straight-up aav.

    on a long-term contract they should work out some formula that counts say each 3 or 4 year aav of the contract count so they arent being charge $10M less than the pay during a players prime or $10M more on the back end of a contract with a 39 y/o player.

    of course the whole sport could use a limit on the length of contract of say 5 years, but i dont think that’s gonna happen.

  70. charlestonchew December 12th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    I’m curious about the role that the stadium has played in lowering Tex’s batting avg. It seems that many of our players, Jeter excluded, have seen a dip in average over the past few seasons since the NYS opened. Look at Granderson! What happened there? I think we all know.

    Do we move the fence back? Or accept that we’re becoming more and more an “all or nothing” offense? Or maybe we sign people who are opposite-field hitters? That seems to be missing almost entirely from our pull-happy lineup. Cano and Jeter know how to drive the ball and hit it where it’s pitched, Ichiro and Gardner, too.

    It’s hard to imagine a scenario where Granderson and Tex both increase their batting average to a reasonable level, given the way they swing the bat. And tinkering with Granderson could be problematic, given his production over the past few years. I think you take that from him any day. Tex is the guy that needs some kind of reboot, though his numbers weren’t half bad last year.

  71. MoRings42 December 12th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Nope, I’m fine with it. Sign him. Throw a performance based option for 3rd year as well.

    Let the man retire as a Yankee with 3000 hits and a WS ring.

  72. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    http://m.gizmodo.com/5967523/m…..ually-suck

    For all the nerds out there…. The newest Man if Steel trailer. Definately has a “dark knight” feel to it …

    —————–

    Saw it yesterday afternoon and did this when it ended :D

  73. The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    MoRings42 December 12th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
    Nope, I’m fine with it. Sign him. Throw a performance based option for 3rd year as well.

    Let the man retire as a Yankee with 3000 hits and a WS ring.

    *****

    I like this attitude – - – -

  74. blake December 12th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    @JimBowdenESPNxm: Still amazed how the Indians wound up with the controlling years of Bauer,Stubbs&Shaw for a one-year rental player represented by Boras#Choo

    Pretty good deal for the tribe

  75. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    on a long-term contract they should work out some formula that counts say each 3 or 4 year aav of the contract count so they arent being charge $10M less than the pay during a players prime or $10M more on the back end of a contract with a 39 y/o player.

    ——————-

    Wait… what?

    Are you basically just asking that they count contracts in real dollars and not AAV?

  76. blake December 12th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    “Saw it yesterday afternoon and did this when it ended ”

    Yea hopefully it doesn’t disappoint

  77. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    I wonder if the deal might allow the Tribe to spend some moolah..

  78. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    charleston chew: the prospects for dealing with the RF fence is not good, you really can’t move it back and you really can’t move home plate back either. i mentioned this the first time i saw NYS that they didn’t allow for any flexibility in fence distances.

    they could maybe go with a plexiglass wall exteding up above the current face through the RF power alley, which could be cool with a ball in-play but the rest of the time would make the fans out there feel cut-off from the field.

    i think it was randy who suggested just removing all the seats in front of the moat and moving the field back, (im all for it) but we know that’s a joke.

    but i agree, i think the stadium’s easy RF homers are killing yankees hitters.

    jeter goes that way anyway, but he seems to be the only one with the discipline to not start trying to lift one over that bogus fence every time up.

    it’s a big problem imo.

  79. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Hopefully it doesn’t. They have a lot banking on MOS. It’s suppose to build the foundation for the Justice League movie.

  80. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Now let’s see, Jeet goes down, Cano turns into a Pumpkin, and you guys wanna make him The Future Face of the Franchise and shower him with all kinds of Jack. NOPE

  81. The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    BryanHoch Random thought: A-Rod needs 99 hits for 3,000. Does he get there in 2013? 46 seconds ago · reply · retweet · favorite

    YankeesWFAN Yankees pitchers & catchers report in exactly 2 months. Well, pitchers anyway. Catchers still kinda TBA, right?

  82. The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Hopefully it doesn’t. They have a lot banking on MOS. It’s suppose to build the foundation for the Justice League movie.

    *****

    Are they going to use the current Superman in the Justice League? What version of Batman do they use?

  83. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    if you go to straight-up aav, then the # can be easily manipulated. at the same time, arod will be earning around $20M the last couple of years of his contract but the LT hit will still be the same as it was in year 1 of the contract.

    so if you broke that contract out to 3 sections (dont know what you’d do with the other season) then you’d be charged $30M for the first section, $25M for the middle years and $22M or something. its closer to the actual pay he’ll recieve as well as the projected impact a player can impart at certain ages. the team would still get charged for every dollar of the contract but it would more closely reflect his actual pay and the impact he has on the team at that point.

    im just throwing out an idea that might make the LT threshold fairer

  84. chicken little December 12th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    The Red Sox seem to be falling into the “team with money to burn” trap. Just because you have money to spend does not mean you should spend it. To me, absent for a star or really good player, the Red Sox shouldn’t be throwing long term deals out there. Why clog your roster with mediocre players whose presence will inhibit your ability to bring in better players (either through draft for free agency) in years to come. To me. Boston should sign mediocre players for one year (two max), hope to catch lightning in a bottle (and then trade the player) while it rebuilds. I mean do the Sox really think Napoli, Victorino, and Dempster warrant long-term deals? Hamilton, yes. But those guys?

    Oh well … its better for the Yanks so it works.

  85. 86w183 December 12th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    YankeesWFAN Yankees pitchers & catchers report in exactly 2 months. Well, pitchers anyway. Catchers still kinda TBA, right?

    ************************************************************************

    That’s funny!

    No stadium kills hitters. Bad hitters, overreacting to their home stadium kill themselves. Not every RH hitter @ Fenway becomes an upper-cutting dead pull hitter to take advantage of the Monstuh.

    Tex has to get his head out of his butt and adjust his swing to punish the shift, especially with a two-strike approach. Granderson the same thing. You don’t re-design a stadium because two stubborn players can’t/won’t adjust.

  86. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    a better thing all around would be a 5 or 6 year limit on contracts, but i don’t think the union would ever approve that.

    however this last negotiation the players accepted a salary cap in exchange for 2 extra days off after the all-star game, so you never know..

  87. joeman December 12th, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Sea has 2 catchers on their roster plus Montero, would be a nice move to get either Olivo or Jaso here

  88. 86w183 December 12th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    The AAV calculation is specifically designed to eliminate manipulation. It’s the most sensible way to handle the salary tax implications of multi-year deals.

    If you don’t want to take an excessive hit in the last years of a deal, I have some free advice:

    DON’T SIGN ANY PLAYERS TO TEN YEAR CONTRACTS

  89. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Hopefully it doesn’t. They have a lot banking on MOS. It’s suppose to build the foundation for the Justice League movie.

    *****

    Are they going to use the current Superman in the Justice League? What version of Batman do they use?

    ————

    They will use this current Superman.

    For Batman it won’t be Bale so that means it won’t be Nolan either. Eventually they are going to reboot Batman.

  90. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    86, i stand corrected, you are right, it’s the players themselves that mess up their swings. thats why i went out of my way to praise jeter’s discipline.

  91. joeman December 12th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    yes two years are two many for Suzuki & 12 mil was is to much for that 3rd baseman

  92. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Just give me 1 Movie about 1 Super Hero. This group stuff is a case of “too many cooks…..”

  93. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 11:56 am

    JAP – I think you misunderstood my ‘moving on’ comment.. that was referencing what I would be doing not what others should do. I just figure my personal statute of limitations will be anything that took place before last off seasons moves (Ajax) since it was only last year that the new CBA was introduced. Do I think they were planning this course of action regardless of the CBA? Yes. But the CBA is the excuse so I figure only judging them based on what they did once they realized that they would be playing by new rules is fair.
    ///

    Shame,

    It’s unfortunate when one can’t discuss something in-time and discovers comments backwards that are no longer in the flow of conversation, here, especially so when it’s between two commenters who have always had friendly, respectful dialogue with one another.

    I’m sure you know better than I what your intent was, but I just looked back, and actually (without reposting stuff, which I don’t get into), you had prefaced that comment, and opened your overall post about “getting over it”, with an “I agree with Chip.”

    Chip had just disagreed with my post, saying he thought 1). Melky was/is a 4th OF so not worth re-signing, 2). Montero couldn’t have been retained because he was a man without a position and DH was reserved for our geriatric set (my term ;) ), and that Granderson was brought here to help us win a WS.

    In effect, Chip “couldn’t disagree more” with my linking the failure to keep these bats links to the current plight, and that any of the 3 young hitters we had in system (on roster in Melky’s case) were worth keeping for his reasons stated.

    What you agreed with (I can only assume, based on your “I agree with Chip” opening) was in complete opposition to my comments, which he countered.

    While this is certainly your prerogative, your having seized on my having referenced this early a.m. (and reposting today) Melky Cabrera’s profile and slash lines of 2012 (from both sides of the plate) in sympathetic fashion kind of has me confused :) , since it’s diametrically opposed to your agreement the other day with Chip.??

    I do understand that those who didn’t necessarily link losing those bats, at the time they were lost, and and a future lineup decline, might not feel particularly strongly about that cause and effect impact or buy it at all (like Chip), but I just felt that your comment about “getting over it” was in response to my having brought it up again, and I think, whether you agree or not with the premise, it kinda undermined the reasoning behind that point of view. If that’s not what you were thinking, that’s fine.

    I still am not sure though, TBH, where you stand on the whole matter, given that response and today’s.

  94. 86w183 December 12th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Sea has 2 catchers on their roster plus Montero, would be a nice move to get either Olivo or Jaso here.

    ************************************************************************

    I’d love Jaso.

    I’d love Zunino even more. I know the kid and he is off the charts on and off the field.

  95. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    im with you on the 10 year contract. i was dead-set against re-signing arod after the opt-out. but it seems that if you don’t go 7 or 8 years, you are not in on the best talent in the game.

  96. 86w183 December 12th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    gotta run gang… enjoy the day

  97. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    The reason they don’t do that is because teams will manipulate the numbers to lower the LT amount. It might seem more fair but all it would do is create more manipulation of the salary year to year.

    AAV is the most fair way to evaluate a contract’s value.

  98. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Just to be clear, Shame, I mean “undermined it” in the sense of taking it as just some emotional refuse rather than a more rational understanding of the cause and effect of those moves.

  99. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Just give me 1 Movie about 1 Super Hero. This group stuff is a case of “too many cooks…..”

    ————–

    It is but Avengers was so big. I think it’s the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time.

  100. The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Boy – Mike ‘Antoni returns to the Garden tomorrow night with his Lakers – revenge – revenge – - – - -

  101. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    YankeesWFAN Yankees pitchers & catchers report in exactly 2 months. Well, pitchers anyway. Catchers still kinda TBA, right?

    ————–

    So just to clarify… there are no games tomorrow.

  102. joeman December 12th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    86w183 December 12th, 2012 at 1:30 pm
    Sea has 2 catchers on their roster plus Montero, would be a nice move to get either Olivo or Jaso here.

    ************************************************************************

    I’d love Jaso.

    I’d love Zunino even more. I know the kid and he is off the charts on and off the field.

    ————————————
    jaso it is…lets get it going…spread the rumor and see if Cash picks up on it

  103. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    The Return of Stoneburner December 12th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Boy – Mike ‘Antoni returns to the Garden tomorrow night with his Lakers – revenge – revenge – – – – -

    ——————–

    The Knicks are going to go all out tomorrow.

  104. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    lakers giving up an average of 113 pts/game since ‘antoni took over.

  105. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Honestly JAP without seeing what I posted and in what context I have no idea what I meant.

    I thought my comment today cleared it up: I won’t judge them for anything beyond 2011 because that’s when the new CBA was implemented and confirmed they would need to/want to take a new approach. So I think judging them from that point to now is fair, given the change.

    I think arguing about not signing Melky this off-season is perfectly valid. I just don’t want to rehash the Ajax deal because, in theory, we were operating under different rules with a different goal at that time.

  106. 4 NYY December 12th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    No problem with Ichiro for 2. He’ll most likely be a part time player ( most of the time ) and that’s fine.

  107. joeman December 12th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    just heard a rumor from a good source that the Yankees are asking about Jaso from Sea

  108. joeman December 12th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    no tweets from joba or anyone from the team about the big signing yesterday

  109. G. Love December 12th, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    I have no problem with Ichiro for 2 years. We need players for next year. We need players signed for next year.

    They are not going to put an OF of Gardner, Dickerson and a rookie out there unless they really want people to walk up to the stadium with pitchforks.

    While he’s not young, Ichiro played wonderfully for us. He still has quickness. He flashed his power. He does what he does and as a fan I enjoy watching him since the guy uses his brain out in the field and isn’t just concerned with hitting it to the 3rd deck with every swing.

    Be happy if we sign him for 2. It’s not like he’s blocking anyone who’s on the cusp. If one of the rookies make their way up in the next 2 seasons who better than a guy like Ichiro to watch and learn from.

    That being said, if Melky outhits Ichiro and they get a similar contract, Cashman should really just do us all a favor and quit.

  110. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
    lakers giving up an average of 113 pts/game since ‘antoni took over.

    ——————–

    Phil is somewhere laughing

  111. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    i have a feeling joba and youk are going to come to really like each other.

  112. yankeefeminista December 12th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    I think it is funny the way people keep touting Jaso as a catcher. Loved him as a hitter as far back as Rays, but unless he has improved his D markedly in Seattle (doubt he has), he really is not a new New York Yankee kind of catcher. In fact, Jaso is pretty putrid defensively. I know, I know he is a beast vs. RHP, and I’d love his bat too, but… I doubt the Yankees see Jaso as a man with a position, and we need the DH for the aging stars, and so there goeth Jaso’s value b/c where would Joe G. put him, or so sayeth Joe G. and Cash.

  113. G. Love December 12th, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    One other thing, I have a feeling Swisher will come back here and to be honest, I’m not for it as many of you know.

    I just have this odd sense of dread that he’s coming back and perhaps Grandy is getting dealt.

    If Swisher’s market is 4/48-60, I wonder if the Yankees are looking at that and saying they’ll take his production at those numbers. I know his camp is probably waiting for the Hamilton contract to be signed first, but I think every team out there is looking at Swisher as a value buy and I think once his market becomes value buy the Yankees may jump in, sign him and trade Grandy.

  114. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Obviously, the Yankee FO wants as few players as possible under contract for 2014. That means IchiNO for 2 yrs.

  115. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    I think arguing about not signing Melky this off-season is perfectly valid. I just don’t want to rehash the Ajax deal because, in theory, we were operating under different rules with a different goal at that time.
    ///

    That’s fine, Shame. I just looked at the whole exchange and remain confused with what in Chip’s post you agreed with, then, since he just dismissed out of hand all 3 hitters as players “with flaws” and never really addressed timelines… which is the whole context for having responded to you today, since he was disagreeing with my post, and so, by logic, were you; again, that’s fine, but I was put off by the “getting over it, lol” in that context (which you feel you have explained to your own satisfaction). Without that, I would not have even mentioned it, since that is what it rested on and without which it would not have been reasonable to assume you were responding to what Chip was disagreeing with in my post.

  116. joeman December 12th, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    G. Love December 12th, 2012 at 1:48 pm
    One other thing, I have a feeling Swisher will come back here and to be honest, I’m not for it as many of you know.

    I just have this odd sense of dread that he’s coming back and perhaps Grandy is getting dealt.

    If Swisher’s market is 4/48-60, I wonder if the Yankees are looking at that and saying they’ll take his production at those numbers. I know his camp is probably waiting for the Hamilton contract to be signed first, but I think every team out there is looking at Swisher as a value buy and I think once his market becomes value buy the Yankees may jump in, sign him and trade Grandy.

    —————————————
    never said it but was thinking the same…….it could very well happen

  117. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    In fact, Jaso is pretty putrid defensively. I know, I know he is a beast vs. RHP, and I’d love his bat too, but… I doubt the Yankees see Jaso as a man with a position, and we need the DH for the aging stars, and so there goeth Jaso’s value b/c where would Joe G. put him, or so sayeth Joe G. and Cash.
    ///

    I too am amused by the clamor for Jaso, not because he wouldn’t be useful, but because a guy 7 years his junior can’t possibly have a position going forward, but Jaso, miserable catcher that he is, is just going to be acceptable behind the plate.

    Yeah, maybe they should have kept Montero and traded for Jaso. Platooned ‘em. ;) .

  118. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    - MOVIES I WANNA SEE -

    (1) THE HOBBIT – Back To The Future in Middle Earth.

    (2) OZ – No ruby slippers in this one.

    (3) DJANGO – Tarantino Western.

    (4) THE MOBSTER SQUAD – Has that Future Bond guy Gosling in it.

  119. joeman December 12th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Olivo an option for this team ?

  120. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    I like Ichiro and would have been genuinely excited about him if he were a complementary move. He is fun to watch, there’s no doubt.

    If Gardner wasn’t coming off an injury, I’d guess they were moving him… there is some redundancy with the two of them in the lineup (both LHB, too). I just don’t know how appealing he would be to prospective buyers when he can’t seem to stay on the field.

  121. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    JAP – When was the post? I think I was agreeing with an entirely different comment Chip made to blake, but I’d like to see it now that you have me curious.

    Generally speaking though, if I’m disagreeing with what people post on here they (and presumably I) are 100% aware of it.

  122. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    @craigcalcaterra

    Clues: could Josh Hamilton sign with Philly by tonight? http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......y-tonight/ … via @HardballTalk

  123. PacoDooley December 12th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 12:19 pm
    Yes Hughes is the only pitcher in his 20?s next free agent season. But there are some good ones in there that are right at 30. Josh Johnson, Tim Lincecum, Matt Garza, Ubaldo Jimenez, maybe Jon Lester
    ————————————

    That list shows you how unpredictable pitchers are when they age. Lincecum may be done as a starter and Jimenez may never be good again. Lester has been a question mark, and Johnson has not been consistently great.

  124. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    @AdamKilgoreWP

    Davey says he’s received “positive signs” from Rizzo that LaRoche will re-sign before Christmas.

  125. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    joeman December 12th, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Olivo an option for this team ?
    ///

    One of the worst defenders in baseball.

  126. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    I’ve been waiting for Philly to pounce on Hamilton all off season… I’d love to get to be right about something for once!

  127. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    (4) THE “GANGSTER” SQUAD

  128. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Shame, the thread is Dec. 7 in a.m.

  129. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Hamilton to Philly, Swish to Texas and …..Hariston to the Yankees..?

  130. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Hamilton would hit 60 HRs as a Yankee. The merch would go through the roof. But they’re penny wise and pound foolish.

  131. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    So Philly trades Pence and signs Hamilton? Should that occur, the Philly FO should be cleaned out.

  132. mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Yanks should give Ichi 3 years in case he is short of 3000 after 2014.(can years 2 and 3 be at their option?)

  133. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Along with that 3 yr deal, you better throw in a cane, and some of Dr A-Rod’s Magic Medicine. 1yr Guaranteed.

  134. blake December 12th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    @YankeeSource: I’d be open to a type of deal: Granderson + prospect for Jayson Heyward. RT @zshap whats an example of a caliber of deal you would make?

    I wonder about this guy sometimes…..

  135. UnKnown December 12th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Josh to Philly is fake.

  136. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    i think the phillies found out what houston already knew and the giants found out…pence looks like a whole lot more than what you actually get from him.

    (i keep finding that out in my fantasy leagues…)

  137. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    whatever Dr. Arod’s been taking isnt working.

    you got any of whatever keppinger was taking last year?

  138. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    Of course everything is relative, and in Houston, Pence stood out. He’s still a bargain when compared to the $$$ and length of contract necessary to get Hamilton.

  139. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    blake December 12th, 2012 at 2:11 pm
    @YankeeSource: I’d be open to a type of deal: Granderson + prospect for Jayson Heyward. RT @zshap whats an example of a caliber of deal you would make?

    I wonder about this guy sometimes…..

    ——————

    In what way exactly?

  140. DONNYBROOK December 12th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    I did Not say he was a good Dr.

  141. Patrick December 12th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Pence was good on the Astros and he was good when with the Phillies. But as soon as they traded him to the Giants he went down the tubes

  142. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    lol. Yeah, I might be “open” to that…

  143. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    The Yankees are, in my opinion, likely to be one of the worst teams in baseball in 2014. They will likely will need a C, 2B, 3B, maybe SS, CF, RF, DH, several starters and some members of a pen.

    They will not have money to fill these spots, even if players were available, with anyone other than dregs. Unfortunately, the best players in the minors won’t be ready and the ones that are ready are not considered very good MLB prospects.

    But, since it is not my money I am supposed to be quiet and like it. Sorry, not happening.

    This is the most incompetent use of money I can imagine. It is insanity not to try now to acquire players for 2014 and beyond. Instead, they act as if that year doesn’t exist.

    And yes, let’s give Ichiro as many years as he needs because players in their 40s can be expected to improve with age. But, don’t dare sign or acquire anyone who is young to such a deal.

    Many have wanted trades. But, they won’t trade for someone with a contract into 2014 or even someone eligible for a new contract or arbitration for that year. That doesn’t leave much of a pool. No wonder they are lifeless.

  144. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Thanks JAP, just checked and yeah I agree with him. All the moves he was referencing were pre-2011 and I don’t think they were all terrible based on what our operating goals/strategy was. I thought we were still in a place where we could spend to fill holes if we needed to, so losing guys like Melky and Ajax wouldn’t hurt, cause maybe we’d replace them with guys in FA who were upgrades. I don’t think Melky is/was a 4th OFer, but at the time we had both him and Gardner and if you could flip one to get a good piece I was more than open to that idea. Ironically, we’re still trying to trade Gardner..

    I still don’t disagree with the Ajax move at all. 2011 Grandy was awesome. And after that season they knew the landscape was changing.. I won’t judge them for trading for Grandy, but I’ll judge them for not trading him while his value was at it’s peak :twisted:

    I think when they got him they thought they’d keep him around.. I did, anyway.. we had a ton of Swish vs Grandy discussions that year, if memory serves me correctly. Which in all fairness it usually does not :D I’m surprised if you took any offense to my ‘getting over it’ comment though.. I’m 100% on board with complaining about how this team has been run and the lack of planning.

  145. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    @baldvinny

    Things that are a lot harder than you think: trying to teach a child how to blow his/her nose.

    ————–

    I was actually horrified to do this as a child…. HORRIFIED.

  146. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    No kidding, you would trade Granderson and prospects for Heyward? I’m sure the Braves will be all over that idea. Silly.

    I think that is what Blake meant.

  147. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    so when you say the yankees are going to be one of the worst teams in baseball you are saying like less than 70 wins?

  148. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Mo rings,

    So Ichiro should hang around in 2014 and 2015 for rings? You live in Washington or Colorado?

  149. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Make no mistake a lot of money comes off the books in 2014..

    Potentially: Kuroda, Andy, Mo, Cano, Youk, Granderson, Hughes, Ichiro?

    ….But those are a LOT of holes. And teams are going to get that TV money starting next year… this market will keep being insane.

  150. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:24 pm
    No kidding, you would trade Granderson and prospects for Heyward? I’m sure the Braves will be all over that idea. Silly.

    I think that is what Blake meant.

    ——————–

    I thought Blake just meant in general because obviously a trade like that wouldn’t even happen in a video game.

  151. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    charleston,

    Half of the games are on the road, of course. Did Teixiera not realize this when he made his swing soley for NYS?

    The fault dear Yurick lies not in the stands but in himself.

  152. Shame Spencer December 12th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Burnett comes off the books too, right? :D

  153. NYYanksFan December 12th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    In an effort to ease any potential tension, Chamberlain reached out to Youkilis Wednesday morning, leaving a voice mail.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....z2Ers8XzhK

  154. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Shame,

    Glad you were able to find. I took offense in context discussed only. Thanks for outlining your take.

    I was in favor of Melky over Gardner, because I felt that Melky was going to figure it out with that stick. I saw something special in his bat, all the way back through the system.

    Gardner over Melky gave me a preview of how these Cashman-Girardi Yankees were trending; Martin over Montero….

  155. mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Seriously.
    Ichi will get a 2nd year with a buyout.
    If he doesn’t get 3000, and has somethin left, he can come back for a 3rd.

  156. blake December 12th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    “In what way exactly?”

    In that suggesting that the braves would have any interest in that sort of deal at all is crazy

  157. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    LOL AMac, that’s really an abridged Shakespeare you’ve got going there.

    Cassius, Brutus, Hamlet and Yorick all in the same play.

  158. blake December 12th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    @OldHossRadbourn: #54: W. Boggs. Enjoyed fornication, beer, chicken, loose women, smashing doubles, invisibility, and his mustache. The consummate team-mate.

  159. mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    In an effort to ease any potential tension, Chamberlain reached out to Youkilis Wednesday morning, leaving a voice mail.
    =====================
    Why not a tweet?

  160. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Ys guy,

    I certainly do mean 70 or less wins. Don’t think it could happen? Look at 1964 and then 1965. From the world series to one of the worst teams in the league.

    They will have to replace more than half of their lineup and more than half of their rotation, plus closer with no money to spend.

    I asked you how the other days and you said free agents and trades. The free agent list was posted above and the better ones, the very few, will likely re-sign. Trades of what?

    Few players, little money, few quality free agents and no money.

  161. mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Cassius, Brutus, Hamlet and Yorick all in the same play.
    ===================================
    Ali, Brosius, Hamilton and Youk?
    Around the horn for a DP?

  162. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    Austinmac,

    If the Yankees just do nothing, then you might not be far off in your predictions.

  163. MoRings42 December 12th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    2014 will be the beginning of the NY Royals + Arod

  164. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    Oh ok I thought you meant he was just way off in general when it comes to his tweets.

  165. NYYanksFan December 12th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Why not a tweet?

    Does Youkilis use Twitter?

  166. mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    If the Yanks tanks in 2014, why can’t be 2015 a banner year for youngsters and FA’s?

  167. mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    Does Youkilis use Twitter?
    ===============
    IDK but Joba do.

  168. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Few players, little money, few quality free agents and no money.

    ———————

    Recipe for disaster.

  169. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:42 pm
    If the Yanks tanks in 2014, why can’t be 2015 a banner year for youngsters and FA’s?

    ————————–

    Will they spend in 15???

  170. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    JAP,

    This one year contract plan, and deal with next year then is rather amazing. I heard AA from Toronto on the radio the other day, and he said every move must consider the present and the future. Of course, it should.

    I am not trying to be a naysayer. I just don’t see any other result if they don’t try to fill in some holes this year. Trade Granderson. Trade Cano if you are not signing him. Waiting and getting an 18 year old in return when they leave for free agency has a very low chance of success.

  171. jacksquat December 12th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:40 pm
    Ys guy,

    I certainly do mean 70 or less wins. Don’t think it could happen? Look at 1964 and then 1965. From the world series to one of the worst teams in the league.

    They will have to replace more than half of their lineup and more than half of their rotation, plus closer with no money to spend.

    I asked you how the other days and you said free agents and trades. The free agent list was posted above and the better ones, the very few, will likely re-sign. Trades of what?

    Few players, little money, few quality free agents and no money.

    Yep, they’re going to lose all those players and have no money. :roll:

  172. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    this is the reality. its not going to change. embrace it or spend the next 3 seasons screaming and crying about it.

    i embrace it.

    one of the most exciting experiences i’ve had in my sporting fan life was watching the yankees of 1990 and 1991 (140 wins in those 2 seasons) bring up young guys like hensley muellens, pat kelly, roberto kelley, kevin maas, jim leyritz & bernie williams and watch that team develop year after year and morph into the juggernaught that it became as the decade went on.

    back in those days, my buddy and i went to a rescheduled game on a september monday when there couldn’t have been 10K in the big house and stayed through 2 rain delays to watch the yankees win a game. by the end there weren’t a thousand fans left.

    when charlie hayes caught that foul popup that ended the 96 WS i raised a glass to the 998 souls who stick it out with us on that rainy chilly day in the empty stadium.

    im not rooting for a 69 win season, but if it happens while the young talent from the farm system takes over and matures, ill be happy to watch and root like hell for them.

  173. mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    Will they spend in 15???
    =================
    That is the $189m question.

  174. mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    this is the reality. its not going to change. embrace it or spend the next 3 seasons screaming and crying about it.
    =================
    well said.

    some are living in fear that the worst will happen.

  175. mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    Joba tweet:
    I want to welcome Youk to the club and can’t wait to resume the beanings in 2014.

  176. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Mick,

    They get a bigger rebate for staying under in 2015 and again for 2016 than staying under in 2014. Why do you think it won’t matter then?

  177. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Signing Youkilis is stupid not because he’s a Blowsox, but because they could have used the money more wisely, because he’s old and banged up, and because they could have given Adams a chance down there… If they had other pieces – younger pieces – and decided to sign him under different circumstances, I wouldn’t really just dislike it on principle. Now he’s going to get us into trouble because he tweaks the umpires way too often, as he’s never been legitimately caught looking, you do realize. That – plus the pinstripes, is not a good combination when it comes to the men in blue.

    His face, well a person can’t really be faulted for that, and I don’t really find him all that ugly when he is not contorting it. These do feel like the dark ages setting in, however…

    Later

  178. Ys Guy December 12th, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    both youkilis and joba bring intensity and max effort. its not surprise they hated each other from opposing sides but i could see them becoming great friends as teammates.

  179. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:50 pm
    this is the reality. its not going to change. embrace it or spend the next 3 seasons screaming and crying about it.
    =================
    well said.

    some are living in fear that the worst will happen.

    —————

    Can you blame them. The kids in the farm are a few yrs away, they might lose their best player, they have pulled back on spending in the draft and IFA, they are cutting payroll, the roster is old and their pitchers have taken a step back.

  180. Pops December 12th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    blake December 12th, 2012 at 12:27 pm
    Yes…..which is why I keep saying to sign Hamilton, trade Grandy for the best offer, and plan on letting Cano walk……go all in for 2013 cause it may be their best shot at a title for awhile
    ================================

    This is exactly how I feel. If the Yanks are serious about the 2014 budget, there is no way they can resign Cano. And even if the budget is smoke and mirrors, I don’t think they will want to sign Cano to the number of years Boras will demand. Sign Hamilton now to a shorter deal. Trade Grandy for the best prospect(s) you can get and move Gardner to CF. Sign Ichiro (1 or 2 years, I don’t care as long as the AAV is within reason) and Cody Ross.

  181. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    I tried to embrace terrible teams for many years in the 60s and 70s. Get back with me after you do. Meanwhile, enjoy all you want.

  182. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 2:53 pm
    Mick,

    They get a bigger rebate for staying under in 2015 and again for 2016 than staying under in 2014. Why do you think it won’t matter then?

    ——————-

    You would be surprised how many ppl think this is a one yr thing.

  183. mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    Why do you think it won’t matter then?
    ==========================
    It does increase but have read that after 2014 they can spend again more freely.

  184. mick December 12th, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    Their is a strong possibility Cano will be traded this year, esp if they know they can’t resign him.
    They will prolly be in the race this season .
    Then you might see the sh!t hit the fans….

  185. Against All Odds December 12th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    mick December 12th, 2012 at 2:56 pm
    Why do you think it won’t matter then?
    ==========================
    It does increase but have read that after 2014 they can spend again more freely.

    —————————————–

    They can but why would they. If you get breaks on the money you bring wouldn’t you do the same thing to get those breaks again.

  186. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    As practically the poster poster for the farm, I find it amusing that some here who ridiculed some of us here for lamenting the loss of a YOUNG COST CONTROLLED HIGH UPSIDE PLAYER to the point of relentless viciousness and adolescent trolling, are now trying to pass themselves off as champions of “letting the prospects come up and play” and preaching “patience” to those of us who were enraged by the Yankees very lack of it, with Montero, with AJax, with Melky Cabrera – a lack that has put this team in the hole they are currently in in the first place.

    We get it: if management is mouthing it, you’ll be its mouthpiece, here. No one’s going to mistake you for a thinking poster, however. You forfeit that with all your scientology posts about being “positive” about a bunch of 40 year olds trying to beat out teams that may have flaws, but who have young players who their fans can applaud and watch evolve.

  187. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    AAO,

    I doubt the crack reporters understand that either. Ofcourse, I might not if not for Jerkface.

  188. mick December 12th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Maybe they reinvest and take profits to all time high.

  189. mick December 12th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    The jury is still out on Hal.

  190. mick December 12th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    But Mac has deemed him guilty. ;)

  191. mick December 12th, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    The whole being greater than the sum of its parts could lead to a productive farm crop overall.

  192. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    JAP,

    You are the prospect poster boy. I wish they would follow your lead, and try players who might actually improve rather than break down and decline. Some will fail and some will not. Let’s find out.

    In reality, if I had a chance to watch the Trenton team play next year, I think it would be much more entertaining than watching the team decline.

    Someone described some of us posters as fearful. Absolutely. I have been saying for months I fear a return of 1965. It is so similar in that they were trying to get one more year out of players. Then, they got old. It was the worst baseball to watch in my lifetiem and darn right I fear it is happening all over.

    The sad thing is, it didn’t have to.

  193. mick December 12th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    So some want to thrust the youngsters into the Big Apple instead of easing them in?

  194. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Amac,

    No, it didn’t have to. And it’s very hard to eke out optimism that the same people running things are going to suddenly get this right. My “fear” is they waste the blue chip guys remaining to bring in something to buoy the 2013 lineup.

    Trenton should be entertaining, with Heathcott, Flores, Austin, etc…. especially when and if Jose Ramirez and DePaula ultimately make it here before the end of 2013. If we can Sanchez up here at some point this season, that would be captivating prospect monitoring, I would guess.

    There’s a story in Pinstripes Plus about Abe Almonte, in which an NL scout says he sees no real weaknesses in his game, except of course his fragile health. It’s true, if he could stay healthy, there’s your replacement for Brett Gardner, whom he resembles in style but whom he exceeds as a hitting talent.

  195. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Mick,

    I would like some of them to play this year so half the team next year don’t make their mamor league debut. Let’s start seeing what we have.

  196. blake December 12th, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    “This is exactly how I feel. If the Yanks are serious about the 2014 budget, there is no way they can resign Cano. And even if the budget is smoke and mirrors, I don’t think they will want to sign Cano to the number of years Boras will demand. Sign Hamilton now to a shorter deal. Trade Grandy for the best prospect(s) you can get and move Gardner to CF. Sign Ichiro (1 or 2 years, I don’t care as long as the AAV is within reason) and Cody Ross.”

    Boom….go for it in 2013….keep the prospects….and then if we have to rebuild and go young we might have a championship to celebrate for awhile as we watch the kids

  197. austinmac December 12th, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    Mamor league–even a higher level than major league– :)

  198. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Here’s what the NL scout had to say about honest Abe:

    “I’d love to see what he could do if he could put back to back healthy seasons together. He has no discernible weaknesses in his game yet he can’t seem to stay on the field. Imagine what he could do if he didn’t keep losing development time. He’d be one heckuva player if he could do that.”

    Again, that’s from an NL scout, not from Patrick Teale (not dissing Teale, just saying it’s from someone who has no impulse to hyperbolize about our prospects). I’ll add that I have never seen Abe have a bad game, either. He’s a talented kid, but alas, he just gets hurt often.

  199. mick December 12th, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    I would like some of them to play this year so half the team next year don’t make their mamor league debut. Let’s start seeing what we have.
    ====================
    Mac-
    And they very well might.

  200. Pops December 12th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Last I checked we traded Montero for another young high upside player. Maybe it was a good trade, maybe it wasn’t. Time will tell. I just wish we didn’t have to re-visit it again…and again…and again.

  201. blake December 12th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    @Buster_ESPN: About the HOF candidates:If I had to bet the family farm,I absolutely don’t think Derek Jeter took PEDs. But you know what?Only Jeter knows.

  202. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    That’s the problem – they are petrified to allow anyone to try and fail.

    The Joba thing is the best example: they quit on him after ONE YEAR and threw him in the bullpen.

    With Montero, it was downright comical how terrified they were to let him get behind the plate; they made Romine fly in just to avoid having Montero catch. The friggin’ kid was 21 at the time. Of course, they were going to deal him even then, and couldn’t risk anyone seeing him catch – as if these teams don’t scout miL games! Melancon is another example, he struggled, got yanked and then didn’t come out of the pen for 17 days… whether you believe in those guys yourself or not, is not the point.

    Joba threw 100 mph and shone in 2008 as a rookie starter. Montero was their brightest young hitter, a consensus elite prospect. Melancon they were all over as Mo’s ultimate replacement, they loved this guy, he was the heir, etc. These aren’t guys like Jeremy Bleich and Brandon Laird that weren’t getting a chance after the first little hiccup. These are highly ranked kids whom they themselves fall out of love with at the drop of a hat. You’re not going to do any developing with that paranoid approach.

  203. J. Alfred Prufrock December 12th, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    Pops December 12th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Last I checked we traded Montero for another young high upside player. Maybe it was a good trade, maybe it wasn’t. Time will tell. I just wish we didn’t have to re-visit it again…and again…and again.
    ///

    A guy who had half a year of success before he hurt his elbow and his velocity disappeared. He was no more advanced than Chamberlain was after 2008, and he had injury risk written all over him, and then he blew out his shoulder, while they sat there and watched him blow it out…

    They did this trade, with the lineup declining a little bit each year. They had no young bats, but they did have Hughes, Nova and Phelps as young starters – Joba, if they ever cared to reverse an idiotic decision on him.

    No reason to wait and see. Time told. We couldn’t hit our way out of a paper bag, had a team of slow bats, and we really were awful against LHP, which Montero, even in his rookie year, clobbered.

  204. roselora December 14th, 2012 at 8:58 am

    Ce site est vraiment très beau, j’ai tout fait, pour le découvrir. Félicitation au “Créateur” de ce site. Très agréable.
    voyance gratuite par telephone


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581