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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Reaching an agreement, without finding a solution

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 13, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Sequestered in the Opryland Hotel last week, I had a drink with Jeff Passan one night, and had a long lobby conversation with Jon Paul Morosi one morning. I’ve come to know both of them, I’ve come to respect both of them, and after reading their articles last night, I’ve come to agree with both of them.

And agreeing with both of them is kind of the story of the Yankees winter.

Morosi wrote that, despite nearly $50 million in new one-year contracts, the Yankees are no better today than they were last season. And I agree. I believe the Yankees could be better than last season — depends a lot on being healthier and getting rebound seasons from key players — but I can’t say that they are better.

Passan wrote that, after seeing the Indians and Rays grab huge prospects in offseason deals, it’s clear that teams are “preying on desperation” in the trade market. And I agree. It’s taking massive packages of minor league players to acquire proven, big league talent. Teams have to be willing to significantly sacrifice if they want to significantly upgrade.

So, that’s the current give and take.

The Yankees are trying to limit future spending, which has limited their ability to upgrade through the free agent market. However, if they were to attempt to upgrade through the trade market, it would require a gutting of the farm system. And it’s the loss of key prospects in past trades that’s left them without many young, affordable, big league ready players to help deal with the current financial limitations.

And so the cycle builds on itself, and we’re seeing that cycle play out this winter.

Associated Press photo

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157 Responses to “Reaching an agreement, without finding a solution”

  1. 86w183 December 13th, 2012 at 9:12 am

    All due respect I think the “spent $ 50 M without getting better” is a phony argument designed to insult the front office in a back-handed manner.

    The Yanks spent $ 50 M and they are A LOT better than they would have been without spending that money, which is the only valid comparison.

    I agree you can’t say they are better than the 2012 team right now. In fact, I would argue that they clearly are not. But this team has far less (about $ 27 M) $$$ committed, so let’s compare them when the final roster and payroll are set.

    THAT would be a valid comparison.

  2. brianlopez22 December 13th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    86 –

    That is what the article is saying.
    When they say getting better or getting worse, it is always with respect to the prior season.

  3. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2012 at 9:18 am

    I think a factor is that now that they’re restricting spending, how much more beyond the $50 million are they really going to spend.

    Also, you are right, they’d be decidedly worse had they not spent the money… but spending that much money and not being better than last season at all isn’t exactly a comfort, either.

    I hope you’re right and they end up spending more to fill out the roster.. but I don’t think we can expect much more than a 4th OFer to platoon Ichiro and maybe.. maybe AJP.

    My heart is still telling me Levine will move heaven and earth to get Giancarlo though… I wish I knew how to quit you, Yankees!!

  4. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2012 at 9:23 am

    ?@ctrent

    Jack Hannahan’s deal with #Reds is two years with a club option. Should be announced today

  5. Hassey December 13th, 2012 at 9:24 am

    Cashman’s inner circle is quietly mulling the idea of signing Kanye West’s skirt to play RF, on only a one-year deal of course

  6. Doreen December 13th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Actually I’m taking heart in that so far anyway, the Yankees have not given in and “traded the farm” for anyone.

    This off-season seems to be a perfect storm against the Yankees, and admittedly some of it has to do with their own austerity program. But I’d offer that there is not anyone in the market this season that warrants mega-years and mega-bucks – most signings have been overpays, and a lot of the trades have elicited comments about giving up too much. Though, it’s wise to remember that we don’t know how teams do their valuations of players, and ya never know how things can turn out.

    In a world where the Yankees were spending, I’d only have asked that they’d have kept Swisher and Martin, but in this market, it would have taken too many years, I think. Years limit flexibility, unless you can do away with no-trade and partial no-trade clauses, or get creative with them (and I don’t even know if you can do that).

    In the meantime, poor RA Dickey!

  7. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2012 at 9:26 am

    @FeinsandNYDN

    The argument that the Yankees haven’t improved may be true. But they won 95 & got to the ALCS last year. They weren’t starting from scratch.

    Feinsand agrees with you, 86!

  8. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2012 at 9:28 am

    Morning Doreen! I meant to tell you yesterday.. I am not a closet Disney fan. I am a 100% out Disney fan.

    The Little Mermaid was the first movie I ever saw in theaters and is my earliest memory. I was 2. It’s my favorite movie of all time :)

  9. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2012 at 9:29 am

    Doreen December 13th, 2012 at 9:25 am

    Actually I’m taking heart in that so far anyway, the Yankees have not given in and “traded the farm” for anyone.

    —————-

    I agree and hope it stays that way for the most part.. if they can give up some spare parts for something we need now or something that would be useful for the next 2 seasons, minimum, I’m okay with that.. but if we give up any of our top guys we might just be shooting ourselves in the foot.

    All that being said….I still want Giancarlo :lol:

  10. blake December 13th, 2012 at 9:34 am

    “The Yanks spent $ 50 M and they are A LOT better than they would have been without spending that money, which is the only valid comparison.”

    That doesn’t matter….all that matters is if they have improved from last year or not….and they haven’t…. They have likely gotten worse

  11. Doreen December 13th, 2012 at 9:35 am

    And I agree with Feinsand’s take – the Yankees may not have improved so far, but they won 95 games and got to the ALCS last year in a compromised season, and they’re not starting from scratch.

    I’m trying to reflect a bit on what the Yankees were missing in the excitement category last year. Aside from a lot of bad feelings left from that January 13th trade, I recall a lot of commentary about no walkoffs (or virtually no walkoffs, maybe 2?). I do think walkoff wins are incredibly exciting, but it does mean your team is tied or losing going into the last innings. Personally, I think a win is a win, but it was interesting to me how last year, it seemed like both wins and losses were “sure things” by the 7th inning or so. You knew when they were going to win most games (and this is not a bad thing), but you also “knew” when they were going to lose them. They had some incredible games where the come-back was in the middle innings, and those get lost. But they also had some games where in the later innings they’d get close or tie, but then not be able to push that one more run across (it happened in the Derek Jeter injury game in the ALCS). So, there were lots of frustrating games.

    But to say there were no exciting games would be incorrect. And the team was one that never gave up – though they weren’t as successful as often as they could have been. Some of the 95 wins weren’t pretty, but I think it says a lot about the team the Yankees had last year that in spite of all that was “wrong” with them, they did eke out 95 wins and have the most wins in their league. That’s not inconsequential, and I am bewildered that because some of the wins didn’t have whatever particular quality, they somehow were inferior wins.

  12. Doreen December 13th, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Shame -

    We are unabashed Disney fans in this household! Just came back from a Thanksgiving visit there. The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin and The Lion King are classics and tough to beat. Except maybe by the Toy Story Trilogy. Oh, man, I can’t even watch Toy Story 3 a second time because I cried so much!!!!!

  13. brianlopez22 December 13th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    Doreen –

    The reason for the lack of excitement is that the team really had no clutch performances.
    They were very consistant last year.

    They had an approach and stuck to it.
    The 1st inning and the last inning were no different.

    It’s like the postseason, they refused to change their approach.
    They kept taking fastballs down the middle and swinging over changeups and curveballs in the dirt.

    Other than Raul’s ridiculous performances, the rest of the team was very consistant.
    In 2009, they treated each game like the last game of the season, so each inning had a greater weight than the prior inning.
    Its called a sense of urgency.
    That was missing last year and this current team is still missing that.

  14. blake December 13th, 2012 at 9:41 am

    The Yankees overachieved to win 95 games last year…..they got incredible performances from Kuroda, Hughes, and at times Ibanez and Chavez and their 38 year old captain hit .320…..

    Everyone is a year older…..Jeter will be 39 and coming off ankle surgery….Arod is out for most of the season already….Swisher is gone….Soriano is gone, Mo is coming back from ACL surgery at 42….Chavez is gone….Ibanez isn’t signed…..they have no catcher…, etc….

    Not trying to be pessimistic …just trying to be objective here and pointing out that this team has issues…..bringing back the same crew minus Swisher and minus Martin isn’t likely to be good enough to win a title and IMO may not even be good enough to make the playoffs.

    That’s fine if it was a bridge year to something better…..but the Yankees are bridging 2013 with stop gaps to a lower payroll and no clear cuts answers on 2014…..

    Sorry but I’m just not buying this spin that everything is hunky dory because most of the same old crew that looked like zombies in the ALCS will be back…..

  15. Doreen December 13th, 2012 at 9:43 am

    blake -

    The question is, how much do they really have to improve, AND if you factor in people having better seasons (maybe Grandy gets his eyesight back for instance!), and people not getting injured, you could argue that they could be better (or at least could be better when they have a catcher and a RF).

    That was the other thing about last year – it seemed like every other game someone else got dinged up or outright injured. I was constantly holding my breath. It really was inevitable that Jeter would go down in the playoffs. Icing on cake. It was like when Tex went down the year before against the Rangers – you knew it was the end. The worst day was the twofer – CC and Andy! How much worse can it get for a team than that?

    The other question is how much better will the other teams in the division be? On paper, things look pretty good for every team in that division. It looks like it could be a tough year for whichever team ultimately comes out ahead. That should be very exciting. While it’s certainly fun to watch your team dominate, isn’t that it’s own kind of boring? Pennant races are invigorating and they should excite the fanbase.

    I think the fact they were in a pennant race with the Orioles was confusion. If it was the Red Sox, I think people would have had different reaction.

  16. Against All Odds December 13th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    In 2009, they treated each game like the last game of the season, so each inning had a greater weight than the prior inning.
    Its called a sense of urgency.

    ————————-

    Also in 09 we had Tex in his prime, CC being the first ace we had in yrs, Hughes out of the pen, Alex coming back from his hip injury and playing well, Drob giving us a glimpse of what he would be yrs later, Cano coming into his own, etc

  17. Hassey December 13th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    Billy Crystal called out the Yankees’ ALCS performance, during his concert opening last night

  18. randy l. December 13th, 2012 at 9:44 am

    blake-

    barring injuries,yankee pitching looks pretty good . i’m guessing the yankees are going to take billy beane’s approach where they play the first third of the year to see where they are, the second third to fix the problems , and the last third to put on a push.

    in other words, no one really knows how much of a drop off the loss in power will cause. there has to be some. but with baltimore’s amazing ability to have a good record when they were scoring less than they were giving up, the yankees may not implode because of a weak offense. on the other hand they might because girardi isn’t showalter.

    i’m just observing that this team is going to have to play some games for us to see what they look like. obviously they are a built as a”pitching wins” team. this will be a test of that philosophy.
    my gut feeling is that the team will hang around the .500 mark for a considerable time in the early season while the pressure builds for some offense.

    if they sign ichiro they will have a pretty good defensive outfield which will help the potentially strong pitching. what the yankes aren’t doing is offering any excitement to go into the season with. it’s more of a “same old, same old” with “old”being the operative word.

    i’m not sure hal can withstand the pressure in this social media world. blogs like this are all over his lack of spending. it’ll take awhile for people like my father to notice that the yankees offense is kind of pathetic. of course he’s 90 . he’ll need to see the games begin before he forms an opinion. lots of people will, but lots of people won’t.

    i do think that hal will go into the season to see how bad the fan backlash is before acting. i get this feeling hat everything will be on a delayed reaction mode for the yankees instead of taking the game to other teams. the yankees will be reacting to how other teams are doing.

    that’s really the downsizing that’s happened. the yankees are no longer the big bad yankees. they are the wait and see yankees. not exactly inspiring.

  19. Doreen December 13th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    I don’t think they lacked a sense of urgency. But my outlook is that you can’t always judge effort and drive and heart by the result.

    Now, would I like to see a different approach versus certain pitchers/teams? You betcha. They gotta start hitting junkball pitchers.

    And while I do not discount a statement that was made (by Girardi, for one) that you can’t ask players to do things they are not comfortable doing, my response would be that maybe the players who are making a ton of money to play this game can use spring training and batting practice to figure out how to get comfortable with doing at least some of those things.

  20. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 9:49 am

    The question is, how much do they really have to improve, AND if you factor in people having better seasons (maybe Grandy gets his eyesight back for instance!), and people not getting injured, you could argue that they could be better (or at least could be better when they have a catcher and a RF).

    At this point they’d need significant bounce backs just to break even. They’ve spent 50 million but most of it is on raises to 40 year old pitchers to retain them. If the core of last years team was young & cost controlled, the Yankees spending 50 million would likely mean upgrades and a better team.

    I think they’ll be scoring less than the 804 runs they scored last year, which was already a vast decline from prior offenses, and the pitching could be better but being significantly older in the good areas is likely to be worse. It can be worse and still be good though. I don’t think Kuroda throws a 3.3 ERA again. It’d be so awesome if he did, but 3.5-3.7 is probably realistic. Pettitte throwing a 2.8 is also unlikely, and he’ll need to stay healthy too.

    Right now RLYW’s projections have the AL east dead even. Tor, Rays, Yankees, Red Sox, & Orioles are all going to the playoffs about equally in his simulations, not good! Remember we need to win the division, or else face a lame 1 game playoff.

  21. mick December 13th, 2012 at 9:51 am

    So this will be a new New York Yankee team this season.
    What is wrong with that?
    With Youkilis, Ichiro and Gardner for a full season maybe they won’t be the all-or-nothing offense that everybody complained about last year.
    Not to mention the 2 biggest swing and miss guy Swisher and Martin are gone.
    Can’t have it both ways people..

  22. 86w183 December 13th, 2012 at 9:52 am

    It’s all about the context of the comment, implying that the Yanks spent $ 50 M and were no better than they were before they spent it, which is pure crapola.

    Right now are they better than 2012? Probably not, but they also have $ 27 M less in financial commitments, so any comparison that doesn’t acknowledge that is slanted and misleading.

  23. mick December 13th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    Doreen December 13th, 2012 at 9:47 am

    I don’t think they lacked a sense of urgency.
    ===========================
    Not sure about that.
    09 was the 1st year of the NYS and George was on his last legs.
    They just came off a big off season and were primed from he get-go.
    Plus they had pie…

  24. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    It’s all about the context of the comment, implying that the Yanks spent $ 50 M and were no better than they were before they spent it, which is pure crapola.

    Well you’re misreading it then, because the article clearly states that they are no better *than last year* You’re manufacturing something to be upset about. The statement Morosi makes is true.

  25. austinmac December 13th, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Blake,

    I agree, as you know, with your concerns. In an objective world, most of the older players will be worse to some degree. That is nature.

    It is clear this year is a half hearted, let’s try to win one more time for the guys who won’t come back. It was impossible to do much with an unwillingness to sign or trade for a multi-year requiring player.

    The 2014 team is going to be playing in AA or AAA this year, for the most part. It would be more comforting were the system not a middle of the pack one. It would also be smart to give some young guys some experience, such as Adams, Mustelier9young for us) and Romine.

  26. chicken little December 13th, 2012 at 9:59 am

    While it would be lovely to add a huge impact bat, chances are that won’t happen. I think the Yanks should concentrate on depth. The dynasty teams were not about power. They were about a patient approach with a lot of solid payers on the bench. Remember Game 4 of the 1996 WS? Because Darryl, Fieder, Raines and Girardi started, the bench had Tino, Paulie, and Leyritz … Not saying the Yanks need starters on the bench but it would be nice (on 1 year deals) to be able to fill it with enough bats to make lefty-righty matchups a pain for the opposing team …

  27. Doreen December 13th, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Well, sure, pie is a great motivator!

    And that is a good point, mick, there was maybe a little extra built-in there with George and the new stadium. But I’m not sure I’d call it urgency. Maybe they had extra momentum that year for all those reasons you cite.

    My feeling is that in spite of some ridiculous injuries that occurred early (Pineda, Joba, Gardner all from just about the very beginning), then just when they were getting on a roll, they lost CC and Andy, then just when ARod looked to finally find a comfort zone, he goes down, that this team found something inside to get them through all of that. It was an uneven season, but they didn’t give up, never gave up. So, what do you call it when a team doesn’t give up? Isn’t that an urgency of its own? They fell short in the ALCS. They did not fall short sometime in the middle of the season; and they did not lay down and die; and they did not make excuses, but kept gritting it out.

  28. austinmac December 13th, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Mick,

    Again, what I perceive to be wrong is a loss of offense at catcher and right field with a reasonbly expected decline of all those nearing or beyond 40. Martin and Swisher, for all the complaints, still represent a WAR of 7 or so as I recall. Cervelli and Ichiro might be a 3. That is worse. Youkilis is a downgrade from the AROD before his injury. Jeter will likely not hit .320, and honestly, he has to be a concern coming off a serious injury.

    They will likely be worse. The question is how much.

    Could players have better years? Yes, on this and on every team. I don’t see any real reason to expect many to improve.

  29. Doreen December 13th, 2012 at 10:03 am

    And MO! How could I forget Mo going down? (Maybe cause Soriano made them almost a non-issue.)

    And perhaps Mo makes his retirement announcement in spring training and there’s your “urgency.” Maybe it’s joint statement from him and Andy, even.

  30. austinmac December 13th, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Mo and Andy should make their retirement annnouncements as there is no way they can be paid in 2014. They would not be asked back except on a very significantly reduced salary. They can’t be and field a representative team.

  31. 86w183 December 13th, 2012 at 10:08 am

    Well you’re misreading it then, because the article clearly states that they are no better *than last year* You’re manufacturing something to be upset about. The statement Morosi makes is true.

    **************************************************************************

    First of all I’m not upset, I’m criticizing the author and those who agree because it’s intellectually dishonest.

    Why even mention the $$$ unless you are going to point out what ISN’T being spent on guys who left and how the total payroll matches up with last year? At the very least Morosi should have points out the Yanks have committed $ 27 M less for 2013.

    Let’s critique the off-season once it’s completed.

    I don’t care who people choose to rip or why, but as a media professional I can’t stand clowns who use half truths and misleading stats to score points.

  32. brianlopez22 December 13th, 2012 at 10:10 am

    “With Youkilis, Ichiro and Gardner for a full season maybe they won’t be the all-or-nothing offense that everybody complained about last year.
    Not to mention the 2 biggest swing and miss guy Swisher and Martin are gone.
    Can’t have it both ways people..

    I 100% agree.
    The 2005 or earlier PUKE and Ichiro is EXACTLY what we need.
    However, we have the 2013 version. BIG DIFFERENCE.
    In video games, the players don’t age but in real life, they do.

    Gardner being there to cause trouble in the lineup and on the basepaths will help.

  33. blake December 13th, 2012 at 10:11 am

    @mlbtraderumors: Red Sox, Dempster Nearing Deal http://t.co/StUjFYrW #mlb

  34. chicken little December 13th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Yanks should target a mix of players (RH would be best) so that Girardi can mix and match late in games — if the situation calls for power, he can go one way — for a bunt another, hit and run another — end result is with the platoon system and lack of power big bats the bench (which usually is ignored by the Yanks) will be key.

  35. blake December 13th, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Doreen,

    I just think they are carrying a lot of risk and think they really played over their heads a but to so those 95 games last year….it was a testament to their pedigree that they did.

    I think the pitching will probably be good enough if healthy to keep them in the race but I don’t like this current offense much and think it could really struggle to score runs at times…..meaning they’ll have to pitch even better than last year most likely to make the playoffs…..could happen sure….but it may not.

    Still time to fix it Cash

  36. RMS December 13th, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Well you’re misreading it then, because the article clearly states that they are no better *than last year*

    ———————————————————————————————————–
    This statement is true. While they did have injuries last year, Mo, Gardner, etc., now Alex is gone for a 4/6 months, Jeter coming off surgery and the team is a year older. Only new face is Youk. Other than him, team is the same. Some teams made moves. Are the Jays better than last year? I say yes.
    As far as the Yankees trading the farm, just what players would bring back something worthwhile? How about the “killer bees?” Never mind.

  37. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Luckily the red sox are helping out the Yankees big time by signing guys like Victorino & Dumpster

  38. Russell Munson December 13th, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Luckily the red sox are helping out the Yankees big time by signing guys like Victorino & Dumpster

    *********************************************************************

    Come on JF, Victorino and Dempster are better than what they had. They’re improving themselves, even if they aren’t going to be great.

  39. chicken little December 13th, 2012 at 10:37 am

    Luckily the red sox are helping out the Yankees big time by signing guys like Victorino & Dumpster

    *********************************************************************

    Come on JF, Victorino and Dempster are better than what they had. They’re improving themselves, even if they aren’t going to be great.
    ____________________________________________________________________

    To me, the big issue from a Boston perspective is giving 3 year deals to mediocre players. This is how a team gets into “bad contract phase.” Is a potential 10 win improvement for a crappy team worth clogging roster spots 2 years down the line with aging mediocre players? The Sox would be better off signing guys to 1 year deals (even if not as good as Dempster) and then trading them mid-season for a prospect is need be …

  40. blake December 13th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    @JonHeymanCBS: #cubs are willing to pay about $26M of soriano’s $36M if they get right prospect back. seems reasonable. 30/100 last yr

  41. chicken little December 13th, 2012 at 10:46 am

    @JonHeymanCBS: #cubs are willing to pay about $26M of soriano’s $36M if they get right prospect back. seems reasonable. 30/100 last yr

    I would look into this.

  42. Russell Munson December 13th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    The Sox would be better off signing guys to 1 year deals (even if not as good as Dempster) and then trading them mid-season for a prospect is need be …

    ******************************************************

    I get that and agree to a certain extent, but as the Yankees have found the market for guys that will take one year deals sort of stinks.

    And adding 10 wins to a 75 win team probably makes them a borderline contender in the East as things sit right now. They probably need some breaks, but there doesn’t look like there are any powerhouses in the division right now.

  43. jacksquat December 13th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    86w183 December 13th, 2012 at 9:52 am
    It’s all about the context of the comment, implying that the Yanks spent $ 50 M and were no better than they were before they spent it, which is pure crapola.

    Right now are they better than 2012? Probably not, but they also have $ 27 M less in financial commitments, so any comparison that doesn’t acknowledge that is slanted and misleading.

    I don’t think they have 27 mil less than 2012. Last I calculated they had about 20 mil less before they signed Youk and Ichiro.

  44. jacksquat December 13th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    The Ichiro signing of course being presumed imminent.

  45. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 10:49 am

    The Yankees are at 200 million with Youk

  46. jacksquat December 13th, 2012 at 10:50 am

    I don’t want to give a good prospect and have two years of Soriano, even if he is cheap. I’d rather just go with Mustelier as righthanded OF substitute.

  47. Ys Guy December 13th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    i havent seem much of mustelier. his #’s look good, though. he played some 3b and even some 2b, were they looking for a spot for him or is he a legitimate utility candidate?

  48. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Ys Guy,

    I’ve not seen him but the report is he isn’t a very good defender, so probably trying to find a spot less than him actually being able to handle all those positions. I’d like to see him get a chance at the major league level.

  49. DONNYBROOK December 13th, 2012 at 11:03 am

    I’d hang onto the prospect and just sign Hairston. VERY easy choice.

  50. blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Jerkface says:
    December 13, 2012 at 10:49 am
    The Yankees are at 200 million with Youk

    Hamilton -Granderdon = 210 ….pretty much where they have lived for years

  51. austinmac December 13th, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Does Soriano have the arm to play right? I can’t believe I am reduced to thinking about Soriano who has never seen a pitch at which he won’t swing.

    I don’t see it as he has a contract into 2014.

  52. blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Id much rather trade for Morse than Soriano

  53. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 11:06 am

    I don’t see it as he has a contract into 2014.

    Soriano for 5 million would be an inexpensive solution for the OF though. And yea it sucks that I see that tweet and go ‘Hey thats not a bad, cheap move’

  54. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 11:07 am

    @mikeaxisa

    Two non-NYY teams offered Ichiro 2/15? I don’t like where this is going.

  55. blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:08 am

    @mikeaxisa: Two non-NYY teams offered Ichiro 2/15? I don’t like where this is going.

    Yea….

  56. Ys Guy December 13th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    keep the prospects, we’re gonna need them.

    hey if mustelier can hit, the yankees can use him.

  57. austinmac December 13th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Ys Guy,

    I have never seen Mustelier play, but his stats look pretty good. Few strike outs, good average and some power. Personally, I would be happy if they tried him rather than Hairston. Hairston looks to me as one who just had his career year, and it was still probably average for a corner outfielder.

    If 2014 is going to have a bunch of young guys, get them some experience and allow yourself to assess the players before next year at the MLB level.

  58. blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Morse can hit righties and lefties enough to be the every day dH and can fake RF enough to platoon with Ichiro.

  59. DONNYBROOK December 13th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Soriano would be a DH. His lack of mobility warrants such.

  60. chicken little December 13th, 2012 at 11:10 am

    @mikeaxisa: Two non-NYY teams offered Ichiro 2/15? I don’t like where this is going.

    Yea….
    _____________________________________________________________________

    If the Yanks clog their 2014 payroll with silly money for Ichiro then its clear all Hal cares about is making money and he thinks that by letting Ichiro get 3,000 hits in NY he makes more money even if its to the detriment of his team by not having funds to fill the tons of holes the club will have to fill (on a limited budget).

  61. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Soriano would be a DH. His lack of mobility warrants such.

    ??? Soriano is still FAF, has been an above average outfielder range wise the past few years

  62. austinmac December 13th, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Ichiro would have to average almost 200 hits per year to reach 3000 in 2014. I can’t imagine that happening. If they sign him as the result of some individual goal, that is beyond stupid. He, at his age, is not the guy to contract into 2014.

  63. Ys Guy December 13th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    i liked ichiro but if the yankees really are going to go under $189M in 2014 then $7.5M for the then 40 y/o ichiro is too much, imo.

    i think its time to start looking elsewhere.

  64. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2012 at 11:15 am

    blake December 13th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    @JonHeymanCBS: #cubs are willing to pay about $26M of soriano’s $36M if they get right prospect back. seems reasonable. 30/100 last yr

    ——————-

    Who do you think they’d consider ‘the right prospect’? That would just be 10 million over 2 years left on his deal, right?

    I just can’t keep preaching the Yankees won 95 games last year and just expect that they will again when they have a worse team this season… again, the Orioles won 93 games last year and for some reason it’s assumed they won’t be able to repeat that even though they have far less holes to fill than we do. Not to mention they have a few players with a ridiculous amount of upside…. I hated watching Machado last year. Pretty sure I’m gonna hate him more this year.

  65. blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Soriano would be an ok DH and platoon partner for Ichirof if Theo would eat 26 million and take like Adam Warren back or something …..

  66. Ys Guy December 13th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    ichiro hasnt had 200 hits in a year since 2010, when he was 36. those days are gone, he’s not getting hit #3000 on any team in 2014, so its a moot point.

  67. DONNYBROOK December 13th, 2012 at 11:17 am

    You must Not of watched many Cub games. I believe Seinfeld stole the line, “I choose Not to run” from Soriano.

  68. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:08 am

    @mikeaxisa: Two non-NYY teams offered Ichiro 2/15? I don’t like where this is going.

    Yea….

    ————–

    Ichiro is gonna get more than Melky…?

    My very optimistic assumption is that he’s leaving money on the table to play with us. I could actually see him doing that, unlike a lot of other players.

  69. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2012 at 11:19 am

    blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Soriano would be an ok DH and platoon partner for Ichirof if Theo would eat 26 million and take like Adam Warren back or something …..

    ————–

    Yeah I think if it’s a prospect like Warren you should do that deal.. but if he’s trying to get someone in our top 5 prospects or anyone off our MLB roster (like Phelps) you can tell him to kiss off.

  70. Ys Guy December 13th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    soriano has 13 steals in the last 3 seasons combined, his legs are shot, he has zero range and no arm.

  71. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    You must Not of watched many Cub games. I believe Seinfeld stole the line, “I choose Not to run” from Soriano.

    Well given many of your statements I’m assuming you are the one who hasn’t watched anything, or you saw 1 play and made an entire judgement off of it. He has been a good outfielder the past few years, he has plenty of range. He doesn’t steal anymore, but one can not steal and still have speed.

  72. DONNYBROOK December 13th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    - JERKY -
    Stop embarassing yourself. Soriano defensively issa joke. This ain’t even worthy of discussion.

  73. blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:23 am

    If they give Ichiro more than Melky then I really question their decision making

  74. blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Soriano is bad defensively but he could play RF against LHP and nobody would die most likely….he’s certainly no worse than Raul

  75. The Mad Prince in Pinstripes December 13th, 2012 at 11:25 am

    I’m not sure I despise any current Yankee more than I despise Francisco Cervelli. That dude sucks and should not be part of any future plans at catcher. We shoulda traded that clown when teams were calling about him a year or two ago.

  76. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    Look at this gazelle run! http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......8;c_id=mlb

  77. blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:26 am

    @jcrasnick: Now that #indians have traded Choo, Asdrubal Cabrera, Justin Masterson & Chris Perez are probably all staying put.

  78. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    An even better catch: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play......8;c_id=mlb

    I’d trust him out there more than Raul Ibanez & Andruw Jones

  79. blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    @YankeeSource: I think the Tigers series was closer than people imagine, a few hits would have swayed the series to the Yankees. Just didn’t happen.

    Lol

  80. Ys Guy December 13th, 2012 at 11:28 am

    i heard soriano himself say his wheels are gone. and while i’ve heard many people say that soriano is a horrible OF i can’t say i’ve heard anyone try to defend his defense in a very long time.

    now its important to remember we had raul ibanez in the OF half the time last year, so its not like bad d disqualifies soriano.

  81. Patrick December 13th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    Soriano has actually always been a good fielding LF. He just has a bad reputation from his days at 2B where he was a butcher.

    Honestly though, all of you ripping his defense, how many cubs games have you even seen in the past 5 years?

  82. Ys Guy December 13th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    that was an ok catch, but i counted 5 steps to get there, not very far and i dont believe the dive was necessary.

  83. Ys Guy December 13th, 2012 at 11:30 am

    im gonna say 10

  84. Jerkface December 13th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    i heard soriano himself say his wheels are gone. and while i’ve heard many people say that soriano is a horrible OF i can’t say i’ve heard anyone try to defend his defense in a very long time.

    Look, I’m sure he is less fast than previously, and that his legs may hurt or whatever which is why he doesn’t steal. But being less fast than Soriano Prime does not mean he is slower than everyone in MLB or so slow that he needs to be a DH only. He is still faster than a lot of outfielders, and his defense has been pretty decent in the OF. He takes bad routes and makes circus catches, but he still gets the job done. No arm, but most OFers the Yankees throw out there don’t have an arm.

  85. Against All Odds December 13th, 2012 at 11:31 am

    blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    @YankeeSource: I think the Tigers series was closer than people imagine, a few hits would have swayed the series to the Yankees. Just didn’t happen.

    Lol

    ————————-

    It’s almost as bad as the ppl that say “The Yankees were the best team in the AL last yr” Huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  86. Ys Guy December 13th, 2012 at 11:32 am

    actually it was 10 steps but he could easily have run through that catch instead of diving. but he did get it, good play.

  87. Cashmoney December 13th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Ichiro was a good acquisition consider the cost in terms of dollars and prospect last year. 2/15 this seem way overpaid for 40 year with diminishing skill sets. This entire organization seem to operating under inflexible and rigid philosophy lately. It’s almost they are incapable of multilayer thinking. From the idea of Nunez being limit to ss only to only defensive catcher needs to apply, ideal about big and hair team construction, precluding multi year deals with viable pieces that eventually sign for reasonable AVV. What transpire this off season instill little confidence in me as fan in terms of that this is an organization that has vision and a sound plan.

  88. RMS December 13th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Yes, sign Soriano. Can’t field, can’t run, doesn’t hustle, strikes out a lot, and is old.

  89. Cashmoney December 13th, 2012 at 11:37 am

    I see cashman’s little cousin is making retarded assessment again. Yes, YankeeSauce, they were so very close in sweeping the tigers.

  90. Patrick December 13th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    You don’t need to be super fast to be a good fielder. Andruw Jones was perhaps the best fielding CF of all time when he was in his prime, he has 152 career steals over 17 seasons. Torii Hunter has 186 stolen bases over 16 seasons.

  91. DONNYBROOK December 13th, 2012 at 11:38 am

    I watch roughly 40 Cub games a year. Little over a game a week. I liked Harry Carey, and have followed them since. The current announcers the Cubs have are rough.

  92. Shame Spencer December 13th, 2012 at 11:40 am

    blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:27 am

    @YankeeSource: I think the Tigers series was closer than people imagine, a few hits would have swayed the series to the Yankees. Just didn’t happen.

    Lol

    ———————-

    …….it’s almost like he’s not talking about a series where we got swept.

    Really?!

    Who is this guy? Cashman in disguise?

  93. Against All Odds December 13th, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource

    Writers make it seem like the Yankees were a seriously flawed team last year, that is mythology.

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource

    Flawed no, ineffective at times yes. RT @juice33nyc they were flawed offensively

    ————————

    So being a home run or bust one dimensional team is not flawed.

  94. Patrick December 13th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    I watch roughly 40 Cub games a year. Little over a game a week. I liked Harry Carey, and have followed them since. The current announcers the Cubs have are rough.

    And you really think Soriano is a bad fielder? Really?

    If the Yanks aren’t playing I turn some other game on MLB.tv and I see plenty of Cubs games. Soriano is really not that bad in LF, and the stats back it up

  95. DONNYBROOK December 13th, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Just cause a team gets swept, does Not make the series a blow-out. The Yanks were swept in “63″, but that was a Close series. My Dad did Not throw anything at the TV, till Pepitone had that throw go thru him in Game 4. You hear “sweep” and there is usually an immediate conclusion that 1 team dominated the other. NOT true.

  96. Against All Odds December 13th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource

    @juice33nyc Definitely, but during the season they had solid stretches of hitting w RISP as well. In 2012 playoffs they simply didn’t hit.

  97. Cashmoney December 13th, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Oh yeah, the whole idea of Cashman is tight up in securing pitching that he completely ignores the offensive side … in so allowing some very reasonable pieces to go by conjure images of Cmoney sitting at YS communicating with the outside with telegraph machine… mm.. I feel little feisty today/

  98. Ys Guy December 13th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    it is true that some fast guys just can’t steal bases, like bernie.

    but soriano is a guy who stole 40 bags 3x and now can’t get 10. thats diminished wheels.

    like i said, we’ve seen raul out there…

  99. Cashmoney December 13th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    If Melky is a 4th outfielder in Cashman’s opinion, what is Ichiro right now, a 4th OF that is 15 years older? Maybe we can trade for a national league pitcher like Ian Kennedy and put him in the bp again. I like smack that little condescending smirk off his face.

  100. RMS December 13th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Soriano is really not that bad in LF, and the stats back it up

    ——————————————————————————————-
    Do stats show when he gets a bad break on a ball, breaks the wrong way, doesn’t hustle if a ball gets by him?

  101. blake December 13th, 2012 at 11:52 am

    @Buster_ESPN: As Ichiro signs with the Yankees, he’ll be turning down a two-year, $14 million offer from the Phillies.

  102. AAA December 13th, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Just cause a team gets swept, does Not make the series a blow-out.

    ===========================================

    True, but the only game where this guys argument holds up is Game 1, when they left the bases loaded 3 times w/o scoring and left the winning run on 3rd in the 10th. In Game 2, only one guy reached third base. In Game 3 nobody reached scoring position til the 9th inning and Game 4 was a smoke show in which the Tigers had six runs before any Yankee reached 3rd base.

    They were smoked.

  103. blake December 13th, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    The games in the series were only close because they pitched so well ….they could still be playing and not have scored

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