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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Yankees charged $18.9 million luxury tax

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 15, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Here’s the Associated Press with the story…

NEW YORK (AP) — The New York Yankees were hit with an $18.9 million luxury tax by Major League Baseball, the 10th consecutive year they will pay a penalty for their spending.

The team finished with a $222.5 million payroll for purposes of the tax, according to figures sent to teams Thursday and obtained by The Associated Press.

Following its payroll-shedding trade with the Los Angeles Dodgers last summer, Boston finished just $47,177 under the $178 million threshold. The Los Angeles Angels wound up at $176.7 million and Philadelphia at $174.5 million.

Figures include average annual values of contracts for players on 40-man rosters, earned bonuses and escalators, adjustments for cash in trades and $10.8 million per team in benefits.

New York has run up a luxury tax bill of $224.2 million over the past decade, with the fee increasing from $13.9 million last year. The Yankees’ tax rate rose from 40 percent to 42.5 percent this year and figures to climb to 50 percent next season. But they hope to get under the threshold in 2014, when it rises to $189 million. Dropping under the threshold would lower their potential tax rate in 2015 to 17.5 percent.

“It affects my decision-making process, my communication about the pressure points we have,” Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said, adding that market rates for free agents also impact his choices.

For the regular payroll calculation — 2012 income plus prorated shares of signing bonuses — spending by the 30 big league teams broke $3 billion for the first time at $3.15 billion after falling $43,000 short of the milestone last year.

The Yankees finished at a record $223.3 million, their 14th consecutive year as the biggest spender and topping their previous mark of $222.5 million in 2008.

However, the Dodgers could break that mark next year following a summer and autumn of acquisitions. Los Angeles currently is at $207.9 million for 21 signed players, including adjustments for the August trade with Boston that brought Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett to the Dodgers. The Yankees are at $182 million for 14 players, including a deal with Ichiro Suzuki that hasn’t been finalized.

“You don’t get a trophy for having the highest payroll,” Cashman said. “I’m not going to feel weird either way, if we’re the highest or we’re not the highest. That’s not the issue. Just want to be the best.”

Philadelphia was second at $169.7 million, followed by Boston ($168.6 million), the Angels ($160.1 million), AL champion Detroit ($140.7 million) and World Series champion San Francisco ($138.1 million).

Even while shedding some stars during the season, Miami rose from $61.9 million to $89.9 million. The Marlins figure to drop to the bottom of spending next year after trading nearly all their veterans.

Among the big slashers were the New York Mets (from $142.2 million in 2011 to $103.7 million) and the Chicago Cubs (from $140.6 million to $107.7 million).

Oakland won the AL West despite the lowest payroll in the major leagues at $59.5 million. The division rival Angels rose from $143.1 million to $160.1 million yet still missed the playoffs. They added slugger Josh Hamilton this week with a $125 million, five-year deal set to be announced Saturday.

The Dodgers, sold during the season to a group headed by Mark Walter, Stan Kasten and Magic Johnson, climbed from $109.9 million in 2011 to $129.1 million. In the last week they added pitchers Zack Greinke ($147 million over six years) and Ryu Hyun-jin ($36 million over six years).

The commissioner’s office computed the average salary at a record 3,104,563, up 2.2 percent from last year’s $3,039,161, The players’ association, which uses a slightly different method, pegged the average at $3,213,479, up 3.8 percent.

Payroll figures are for 40-man rosters and include salaries and prorated shares of signing bonuses, earned incentive bonuses, non-cash compensation, buyouts of unexercised options and cash transactions, such as money included in trades. In some cases, parts of salaries that are deferred are discounted to reflect present-day values.

According to the collective bargaining agreement, checks to pay the luxury tax must be sent to the commissioner’s office by Jan. 21.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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194 Responses to “Yankees charged $18.9 million luxury tax”

  1. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Maybe if the Yanks got some long term answers so they wouldn’t have to over pay for one year deals all the time then their payroll would be lower?

  2. 86w183 December 15th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Chad…. sorry to say this but that article is a pack of lies.

    I can make this assertion, because as an avid reader and contributor to this blog I KNOW that Hal Steinbrenner is a cheap S-O-B so there’s no chance he would spend that kind of money when all he cares about is the bottom line.

    Next thing I know you’ll offer up another pack of lies about the Yankees spending almost $ 90 Million dollars to sign Pettitte, Kuroda, Rivera, Youkilis and Ichiro while also picking up the options on Granderson and Cano.

    Just how dumb do you think we are?

  3. Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Cano for Zunino, Ackley , and MONTERO!

    ———————

    Montero for Pineda :)

  4. PacoDooley December 15th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
    Maybe if the Yanks got some long term answers so they wouldn’t have to over pay for one year deals all the time then their payroll would be lower?
    ——————————————————

    Agreed – they need to continue to build their farm and not trade everyone for older players. They would do well to take the approach that the Rays or Cardinals take – everything starts with a quality farm, but them use their financial muscle to retain flexibility (like going after someone like Sabathia, or resigning their own player in Jeter).

  5. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    “Chad…. sorry to say this but that article is a pack of lies.”

    It’s very factual….it’s als very factual that the signing bonus they just signed for their TV dealers than covers all of that and they take in tons of profit every year.

    The amount of money they spent last year or even this year isn’t the problem…..it’s how they are spending it and how they intend to spend it in the future.

    They have spent tons of money this year on zero long term solutions……

  6. Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Maybe if the Yanks got some long term answers so they wouldn’t have to over pay for one year deals all the time then their payroll would be lower?

    —————————–

    If they could actually develop young players then yes it would work lol.

  7. PacoDooley December 15th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    How about Granderson plus some B prospects for Olt. Then they can perhaps put together a package with Hughes and some other talent for a player like Trumbo. The Angels need pitching, and probably are looking for better talent than Hughes, but the Yankees have to start somewhere…

  8. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Sorry but I don’t feel sorry for the Yankee ownership who got themselves into this situation themselves by giving Arod a 27.5 million dollar deal past age 40….by failing to do extensions for players like Cano….etc…..and they STILL make mountains of cash…..

  9. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Signing Cano to a long-term deal is going to be a very tough decision, aside from the salary cap isue. Based on talent, ability, and demonstrated performance thus far, signing Cano to a big long-term deal seems to be a no-brainer–8 years at $200 million, sounds about right for arguably the best player in the Majors. On the other hand, his age makes signing him to a big 8-year deal pohibitive. Moreover, there is something about Cano’s demeanor that suggests to me that he might have a tendency to coast, once he gets his big deal.

  10. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    “How about Granderson plus some B prospects for Olt”

    See they never do stuff like this…., they keep the player because they have to ” win now” …,then they let them walk for nothing and sign a high dollar stop gap…..,then report a sky high payroll with virtually nothing solved long term.

    They have to operate differently

  11. DONNYBROOK December 15th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    The Yankee Profit Margin absolutely Dwarfs that $18.9 Luxury Tax. The poor mouth routine outta Cashman and the Yankee FO should be responded to with a resounding, “Stiffle it Edith.

  12. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Cano will be a FA at 31…..so if you sign him then keep in mind that almost the entire contract will be for years after his prime.

    We just saw this last year with Pujols…. Who is a better hitter than Cano…..

  13. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    @Jim_Duquette: A major lg exec told me that #Rangers did NOT include Olt in a deal, and if #Mets had asked for him and 1 other, it’d be done by now.

    Olt is available

  14. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Sorry but I don’t feel sorry for the Yankee ownership who got themselves into this situation themselves by giving Arod a 27.5 million dollar deal past age 40….by failing to do extensions for players like Cano….etc…..and they STILL make mountains of cash…..
    =================

    I missed the part when the Yank’ ownership asked folks to feel sorry for them.

  15. Triple Short of a Cycle December 15th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Richard Griffin of The Toronto Star reports (on Twitter) that the Blue Jays need to sign Dickey to an extension and receive a top prospect from the Mets if they’re going to include d’Arnaud and Gose in the trade.
    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#JDKPczJKmYORbj2y.99

    ————————–

    So this moron expects the Mets to include a top prospect to get d’anaud and the overrated Gose?

    Guy is nuts

  16. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 15th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    The Yankee Profit Margin absolutely Dwarfs that $18.9 Luxury Tax. The poor mouth routine outta Cashman and the Yankee FO should be responded to with a resounding, “Stiffle it Edith.
    ================

    How do you know what the Yanks’ profit margin is? What is it?

  17. 86w183 December 15th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    Just messin’ with you guys!

    They just have to suffer the short term pain and give young players a chance, whether they are home grown or acquired in trades.

    That time is coming in 2014. I’d be surprised if they made moves now to obtain young positional talent, but it wouldn’t upset me. After seeing the Choo trade one year of Hughes, Granderson or Cano should generate a lot of interest.

    And I still think the key to being competitive @ $ 189 is young pitching. Nova, Pineda, Phelps, Marshall, Warren, Nuno, Banuelos, Betances, Montgomery et al.

  18. ron December 15th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    That is the frustrating thing.
    Zero solutions when they could of addressed them,and still competed.

    I absolutely love what the rays did with shields,so i think we could of been sitting very pretty with our own prospects,and the prospects from trading some of our players,combined with our money.
    I don’t care what anybody says,the yankees can have the best of both worlds,but you can’t sit still,and do nothing when the formula that made them the number one team in sports history is not being used anymore,and we are in a holding pattern.

    Insanity.

  19. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    “I missed the part when the Yank’ ownership asked folks to feel sorry for them.”

    They didn’t……but they are trying to snake oil the fans to some degree IMO

  20. JobaTipsHisCap December 15th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Youk

  21. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    “How do you know what the Yanks’ profit margin is? What is it?”

    It’s not public record so no way to know but I’ve seen guesstimated that their annual revenues are over 600 million…..

  22. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Cano will be a FA at 31…..so if you sign him then keep in mind that almost the entire contract will be for years after his prime.

    We just saw this last year with Pujols…. Who is a better hitter than Cano…..
    ==============

    I’m starting to think that the right move might be to move Cano this year while the getting is good. Cano retaining Boras as his agent sends a clear signal that there won’t be any hometown discount on any deal to be made…

  23. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    “And I still think the key to being competitive @ $ 189 is young pitching. Nova, Pineda, Phelps, Marshall, Warren, Nuno, Banuelos, Betances, Montgomery et al.”

    That’s a big big key….but so is the wave of position players coming.

    There is virtually no way they can make this work unless several of their prospects pan out

  24. Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    “How about Granderson plus some B prospects for Olt”

    See they never do stuff like this….

    ———————

    To be fair they have been trying to move Grandy since what Nov.

  25. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    “I missed the part when the Yank’ ownership asked folks to feel sorry for them.”

    They didn’t……but they are trying to snake oil the fans to some degree IMO
    ===============

    How so? Cashman is right that the Yanks are pretty much conducting their business as usual–2007 through 2009 was the aberration. The Yanks have always been about making money, and they still are..

  26. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    “I’m starting to think that the right move might be to move Cano this year while the getting is good”

    If they could get a big return and cheaply solve a couple of positions long term then it’s probably what they should do ….but they won’t…..they’ll either let him walk for a draft pick or give him a 200 million dollar contract that they’ll be complaining about 5 years from now

  27. DONNYBROOK December 15th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    - GHOSTY -

    I know that’s you Cashman. Stop the charade.

  28. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    “To be fair they have been trying to move Grandy since what Nov.”

    I doubt they are trying to actively move him…..listening to offers is one thing…, actively trying to find a trade is another

  29. Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    I’m starting to think that the right move might be to move Cano this year while the getting is good. Cano retaining Boras as his agent sends a clear signal that there won’t be any hometown discount on any deal to be made

    —————————-

    The Yankees have themselves to blame for that. They could have extended Cano two yrs ago.

  30. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    “How so? Cashman is right that the Yanks are pretty much conducting their business as usual–2007 through 2009 was the aberration. The Yanks have always been about making money, and they still are..”

    They have been saying stuff like “we’re only reducing payroll 10% ….and we should be able to win with 189 million dollar payroll….” For months….

    Hal is banking on fans getting on board with all this stuff so he can save money …..

  31. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    “How do you know what the Yanks’ profit margin is? What is it?”

    It’s not public record so no way to know but I’ve seen guesstimated that their annual revenues are over 600 million…..
    ==============

    That’s kind of my point. Nobody knows how much money they make. So, I don’t know how anybody can say that they “make enough” or a ton of it. Yes, their revenues are considerable but so are their costs–that new stadium wasn’t free…

    At any rate, it’s hard to blame the Yanks for playing the game as it was designed. The Yanks voted against the salary cap; it was the other teams that wanted and imposed it on the Yanks.

  32. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    If the Yankees were a restaurant they’d essentially be asking their customers to stick with them …..even though they made bad investments and are gonna have to increase prices and decrease the food quality…..

  33. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    “I’m starting to think that the right move might be to move Cano this year while the getting is good”

    If they could get a big return and cheaply solve a couple of positions long term then it’s probably what they should do ….but they won’t…..they’ll either let him walk for a draft pick or give him a 200 million dollar contract that they’ll be complaining about 5 years from now
    ============

    I’m afraid that you might be right about that…

  34. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    DONNYBROOK December 15th, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    - GHOSTY -

    I know that’s you Cashman. Stop the charade.
    ============

    Yes, you’ve found me out!! ;)

  35. Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    . The Yanks voted against the salary cap

    ————————–

    They did?

    You talking about the luxury tax when George was around or the new CBA?

  36. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    “that new stadium wasn’t free…”

    Taxpayers paid for over half of it I believe

  37. austinmac December 15th, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    The Dodgers say, as the Yankees used to act, as if the luxury tax is part of doing business. I expect Mercedes vehicles cost more to build. They charge more as do the Yankees.

    One expects to get what they pay for.

  38. Bronx Jeers December 15th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Time will tell if Hal is indeed cutting off his nose to spite his face.

  39. ron December 15th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    It is not business as usual.

    The yankees always spent to make money,now they are not spending to make money,and that is a disaster waiting to happen,unless they simply can’t afford to spend.
    They make 400-450 million,or so in shared revenues,more revenue money is hidden,pl;us they just signed the best tv deal in history that will pay them 300 million a year alone,just from the tv deal,by 2042.

    The revenue sharing rebates are only for 2014-2016,as of now,so unless they extend it,it would make zero sense to avoid a lt penalty when you are talking a 20 million a year penalty,if they had a 230 million payroll.
    It’s pocket change.

  40. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    If the Yankees were a restaurant they’d essentially be asking their customers to stick with them …..even though they made bad investments and are gonna have to increase prices and decrease the food quality…..
    ===============

    I’m not sure that the restaurant analogy really fits for the Yanks. However, if I was to use this for them, the Yanks are essentially locked into a series of long-term contracts, paying premium porices to distributors with declining product quality. And if the quality of the product that the Yanks serve declines as a result, then their customers will take their business elsewhere…

    However, I’m not as down on the Yanks as some folks are..

  41. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    “that new stadium wasn’t free…”

    Taxpayers paid for over half of it I believe
    ===================

    I don’t think that’s true….

  42. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    . The Yanks voted against the salary cap

    ————————–

    They did?

    You talking about the luxury tax when George was around or the new CBA?
    ========

    Yes, the so-called luxury tax when George was around.

  43. austinmac December 15th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Many of the amateurs on this blog have been suggesting ways to get players at reasonable prices for the past two years. Examples are Cespedes and Chapman. The Yankees simply do not know how to look long range.

    Rebuilding would give me hope. Decaying does not. They have not added a single active young positional player in a long time. Gardner, who turns 30 in August, is their youngest positional player. That is rather amazing.

    Cashman said he was rebuilding the system. Oh wait, the prospects are still two years away. They have always been.

  44. randy l. December 15th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    some people go into denial when they start to go downhill.

    hal and cashman will put up a big false front even as they start falling apart.

    they will likely blame everyone but themselves.

    cashman can pull a theo and easily go to another team.

    the world doesn’t fall apart for hal just because the yankees might suck.

    look at john henry. no team has imploded more than the red sox in recent memory, but he’s still a rich ba*tard whose life style doesn’t change one bit. hal and hank are probably more concerned about taxes being raised on the rich rather than yankees luxury tax.

    i think the appropriate response is to laugh at yankees management and ownership. i mean what other team has spent over two billion dollars in the past ten years and won one world series ?

  45. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    ron December 15th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    It is not business as usual.

    The yankees always spent to make money,now they are not spending to make money,and that is a disaster waiting to happen,unless they simply can’t afford to spend.
    They make 400-450 million,or so in shared revenues,more revenue money is hidden,pl;us they just signed the best tv deal in history that will pay them 300 million a year alone,just from the tv deal,by 2042.

    The revenue sharing rebates are only for 2014-2016,as of now,so unless they extend it,it would make zero sense to avoid a lt penalty when you are talking a 20 million a year penalty,if they had a 230 million payroll.
    It’s pocket change.
    ========================

    Only somebody with no s in the game would call $20 million pocket change. Twenty million is significant chunk of their net profits (if you believe Frobes’ guesstimates).

  46. randy l. December 15th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    “Cashman said he was rebuilding the system. Oh wait, the prospects are still two years away. They have always been”

    austin mac-

    why did the yankees name the triple a team the scranton railriders when they could have simply called them the scranton dangling carrots?

  47. bruceb December 15th, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Since when did the Toronto Blue Jays become the New York Yankees? Now they’re on the verge of signing Dickey. This luxury tax seems to be robbing from the rich and giving to the poor.

    Everyone is trying to get better while we’re standing still (if not going backwards).

  48. 86w183 December 15th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    When have the Yanks not delivered?

    They won more games than anyone else in the American League last year. They have missed the post-season one time since 1996.

    We can all criticize moves and strategies and I’ve done more than my share of that, but it’s not yet led to a dramatically poorer product on the field and it doesn’t look like it will in 2013.

    The Yanks did get a lot of help with the Stadium… most of the direct $$$ was in infrastructure such as a metro stop, garages and road improvements. The rest was not direct cash but savings in allowing the issuance of tax-exempt bonds.

    Some choose to consider that “taxpayer money” because of taxes that will not be paid on the bonds. Others say they aren’t since there’s no outlay from the govt. I can argue it either way.

  49. Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Cashman said he was rebuilding the system. Oh wait, the prospects are still two years away. They have always been.

    ————————–

    Crazy when you think about it right. Still waiting for the system to be a pipeline for the big club. “We want to be the Rays with money” WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Yankees aren’t even developing B level players like the Rays want makes them think they can develop the A level players like they do.

  50. mick December 15th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    what POSITIVE does the constant whining and crying bring to this blog?
    i understand that if the Yanks were perfect why would anyone come here.
    crying about the NEGATIVE provides no new insight each time you do it.
    in fact, it makes things seem even more NEGATIVE, than they really are.
    we get it already, you guys are smarter and more omniscient than others
    as you can see the future, thanks for telling us the same thing in every post you make.
    BORINNNNG…

  51. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Of $1.5 billion sought for the stadiums, city and state taxpayers would pick up half the tab for construction, $800 million, along with $390 million on extra transportation.[15] The plan also said that the teams would be allowed to keep all parking revenues, which state officials had already said they wanted to keep to compensate the state for building new garages for the teams.[16] The teams would keep 96% of ticket revenues and 100% of all other revenues, not pay sales tax or property tax on the stadium, and would get low-cost electricity from the state of New York.[16] Business officials criticized the plan as giving too much money to successful teams with little reason to move to a different city

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki.....#section_1

  52. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    86w183 December 15th, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    When have the Yanks not delivered?

    They won more games than anyone else in the American League last year. They have missed the post-season one time since 1996.

    We can all criticize moves and strategies and I’ve done more than my share of that, but it’s not yet led to a dramatically poorer product on the field and it doesn’t look like it will in 2013.

    The Yanks did get a lot of help with the Stadium… most of the direct $$$ was in infrastructure such as a metro stop, garages and road improvements. The rest was not direct cash but savings in allowing the issuance of tax-exempt bonds.

    Some choose to consider that “taxpayer money” because of taxes that will not be paid on the bonds. Others say they aren’t since there’s no outlay from the govt. I can argue it either way.
    ======================

    Nice post.

  53. blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    The Yankees have delivered because of the players and because they have always gone the extra mile finanically to fill holes when they had them…

    all Im wondering is what happens when the Jeters and Riveras are gone and maybe they aren’t willing to go that extra mike any longer…..

  54. austinmac December 15th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Mick,

    If you don’t like to read what is written, don’t. I hope that clears it up for you. Meanwhile, enjoy the enhancements to your team Cashman and company have brought us.

  55. PacoDooley December 15th, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:12 pm
    Cano will be a FA at 31…..so if you sign him then keep in mind that almost the entire contract will be for years after his prime.

    We just saw this last year with Pujols…. Who is a better hitter than Cano…..
    ——————————————

    They need to be willing to let players walk and take the compensation pick rather than digigng themselves a ditch that they will get stuck in. They need to develop talent and be very careful about long term deals to ageing players…

  56. blake December 15th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    “They need to be willing to let players walk and take the compensation pick rather than digigng themselves a ditch that they will get stuck ”

    They also need to be willing to discuss extensions with players and they need to be willing to consider trading players they can’t keep …..

  57. ron December 15th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    It is pocket change when that formula made them what they are today,and that 20 million made them 30 million in the past.
    They simply will no be on equal ground if the only thing that gave them an advantage,money,is taken away.

    I’m not saying to spend one more cent,but i am saying to be smarter than they are now.
    Dropping payroll,and just going with the same players,older,more injuries,and having a terrible split stat team is not going to work..
    They just don’t hit rh pitching well,ichiro is terrible against lefties,nunez terrible against righties,gardner bad against lefties,terrible catching,youk was bad against righties,and a team faces righties 2/3 of the time,and jeter,youk,ichiro will dh a lot.
    Very few,if any ops’d near .800 against opposite side pitchers,and most of the problem is against rh pitching wich team face most of the time.

  58. luis December 15th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Good afternoon everyone,

    The problem with the organization is that they talk about relying on the farm more heavily, but in the end, they go the vet route. Sure, they have made the PS every year since 96, except for 2008. The problem now is for how much longer can you rely on the old core to produce at an AS level, with no new blood in the horizon and with linmited financial resources.

    Even now, instead of going with either Adams or Mustelier at third, they paid 12 mil to Youkilis to play. Or they are going to go with Ichiro. Not that I mind about it, but if you want to rebuild ( and they will need to at some point ), this is clearly not the route. I guess they are postponing it one more year. Let’s hope it pays off and we can actually pull it off this time.

    The only time they have gone the rookie route is when their hand was forced to by circumstances ( Cano for Womack or Melky for Williams)

  59. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    austinmac December 15th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Mick,

    If you don’t like to read what is written, don’t. I hope that clears it up for you. Meanwhile, enjoy the enhancements to your team Cashman and company have brought us.

    ===========================

    He might say the same to you. I really don’t see the point in trying to squelch somebody for voicing their opinion. This tactic is pretty clear evidence of an absence of an effective counter-argument. So, why respond?

  60. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    ron December 15th, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    It is pocket change when that formula made them what they are today,and that 20 million made them 30 million in the past.

    —————

    According to Forbes Magazine, that $20 million in “pocket change” is twice as much as the Yanks’ Operating income in 2012.

  61. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    http://www.forbes.com/teams/new-york-yankees/

  62. luis December 15th, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    One more thing… Is management going to change their ways, once the new crop of prospects is ready by 2015? Or are they going to become trade fodder for that elusive number two pitcher they seem to be craving about? This is my worst fear.

  63. blake December 15th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    “According to Forbes Magazine, that $20 million in “pocket change” is twice as much as the Yanks’ Operating income in 2012.”

    No business is gonna show a big profit on paper….that’s what’s CPAs are for….Id love to see what the owners “salaries and bonuses” are for a year…..

  64. randy l. December 15th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    i don’t think the yankees can truly be ragged upon until they start playing real games.

    and unfortunately that’s going to be awhile.

    i look at this off season blog ragging as practice ragging which will help to be fully ready when the season begins.

    the good news this year is there is no young offensive player for cashman to dump for a low probability success young pitcher.

    cashman would really have to stretch himself to figure out a way to totally screw the yankees this january. i think he should should take it off. take up figure skating or maybe that game on ice they play with a broom.

  65. Nick in SF December 15th, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    “The Dodgers say, as the Yankees used to act, as if the luxury tax is part of doing business.”

    What is the Yankees’ luxury tax bill going to be after the 2013 season?

  66. DONNYBROOK December 15th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Suggesting Yankee Fans just accept mediocrity, while Hal and Company Laugh all the way to the bank is Foolish. Remember, Hal did Not build this franchise, he “silver spooned” it. If Yankee Fans make enough noise, Hal will either reverse course, or Sell the team, Either way, Yankee fans win. If a Yankee Fan takes it in-the-shorts withOut a whimper, he will get Exactly what he deserves. A consistent Loser.

  67. J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    i don’t see that at all. they planned on getting rid of shields a year ago. the kid archer is ready.

    the rays unlike the yankees seem to make a plan and stick to it.

    what a concept to actually getting a pitcher mlb ready at the minor league level to replace a high price veteran and getting impressive cost controlled young offensive players back.
    ///

    Randy, to your point, this is the number that represents the genesis of our pinstriped decline (not 189):

    83.1.

    Odds, you know what I’m talkin’ about :(

  68. Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    I know JAP I know where you’re coming from buddy.

  69. tucker December 15th, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Yanks are like a nice Victorian-era house that has consistently won the local Realtors’ award of best of show in the annual historic home show.

    But the house has aged a bit. The foundation is cracking and the roof is starting to leak. Only the owners are more worried about the property tax bill. So they will slap a new coat of fresh paint on the ceiling to cover those water stains. The foundation will probably be fine for a couple of more years before the cracks are noticeable … Just as long as people still think the house appears fine, the owners are happy to collect praise from the neighbors and the community. It’s almost time to put this baby on the market.

  70. J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    I know JAP I know where you’re coming from buddy.
    ///

    :D
    I just took another look at his 2008 numbers. smh

  71. J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    the good news this year is there is no young offensive player for cashman to dump for a low probability success young pitcher.
    ///

    He’s traded them all away! :mad:

    But future offensive players, like Gary Sanchez, are not safe.

  72. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    =====

    Why so cryptic? Who are you talking about?

  73. J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Ghost,

    That number is the paltry sum of career miL IP by Joba Chamberlain :(

  74. CompassRosy December 15th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    “If I were Cashman I’d call my old pal in Seattle and see if he had an interest in Granderson. They desperately need bats and it’s hard for them to entice free agents. If there was any chance to get my hands on Mike Zunino I’d do it.”

    ~
    Given the correct assumptions that the M’s desperately need offense and that enticing FAs to Seattle is next to impossible, it doesn’t stand to reason that they would deal any of their young bats (let alone their top hitting prospect). If anything, they will deal some of their young pitching (which they have in ample supply) to get a solid veteran bat or two, while continuing to develop their young core.

  75. jacksquat December 15th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Can’t just assume Archer replaces Shields. He has 4 major league starts.

  76. J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Sorry Ghost, I figured the .1 would give it away ;) .

  77. Melkmanisinhotlanta December 15th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    I suggest the NYY stay under the salary cap and stop subsidizing the parasitic MLB teams that pocket the NYY $. Enough.

  78. blake December 15th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    “But future offensive players, like Gary Sanchez, are not safe.”

    This time next year is when to worry ….cause by then hopefully that wave will be in AA and teams will be taking notice. Williams and Sanchez are already in a lot of top 30s….. If they get to and perform in AA by the end of the season they’ll be very valuable.

    Combine that with the fact that 3 of the rotation members from this season may be gone and you have a potential perfect ,Brian Cashman pitching holds the keys, storm where all the prospects are traded for pitching…..

  79. jacksquat December 15th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    The luxury tax money does not go to other teams.

  80. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Ghost,

    That number is the paltry sum of career miL IP by Joba Chamberlain :(

    —————

    Now, I see. I think that if there is a fair criticism to be leveled at Cashman, it lies with some of his moves with the minor leaguers. Joba is an excellent example of this, and the Montero trade is exhibit B.

    I find the complaining about the salaries to be quite tedious and myopic.

  81. J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    Even if he doesn’t, they’ve got Hellboy, Price, Moore and Niemann/Cobb. They can ease Archer in.

    Odorizzi reportedly is expected to move fast, as well.

    My guess is, Archer won’t wind up banished to the bullpen for life if he falters. He might even get to go back to the minors for some tweaking, in that case…. What a concept.

  82. randy l. December 15th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    j.a.pru-

    i definitely think the yankees are trending downward in their probability of winning another world series in the next few years.

    it would be interesting to have jerkface explore some of the expected wins for the yankees from various sabermetric prognosticators .

    somehow, i’m thinking the yankees right now would be an 89-90 expected wins.

  83. jacksquat December 15th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    I’ve been telling you all to pray/meditate/think good thoughts for Pineda to come back healthy and strong sometime this year, so they can use him as a #2 in 2014… It is extremely important. Either that or Nova turns into a #2.

  84. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    “But future offensive players, like Gary Sanchez, are not safe.”

    This time next year is when to worry ….cause by then hopefully that wave will be in AA and teams will be taking notice. Williams and Sanchez are already in a lot of top 30s….. If they get to and perform in AA by the end of the season they’ll be very valuable.

    Combine that with the fact that 3 of the rotation members from this season may be gone and you have a potential perfect ,Brian Cashman pitching holds the keys, storm where all the prospects are traded for pitching…..
    =============

    The trade deadline this year also worries me. I hope that they don’t succumb to making a reactionary trade, dumping the cream of our youth for some guy whose best years are behind him.

  85. Ghostwriter December 15th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    randy l. December 15th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    j.a.pru-

    i definitely think the yankees are trending downward in their probability of winning another world series in the next few years.

    it would be interesting to have jerkface explore some of the expected wins for the yankees from various sabermetric prognosticators .

    somehow, i’m thinking the yankees right now would be an 89-90 expected wins.
    ======

    They still have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. They are in a very tough division in 2013, but I think that they can win at least 93 games, which should get them into the postseason.

  86. J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    Combine that with the fact that 3 of the rotation members from this season may be gone and you have a potential perfect ,Brian Cashman pitching holds the keys, storm where all the prospects are traded for pitching…..
    ////

    We should really write a parody. Oh, wait…that’s what we’ve been doing since January…

    I really do appreciate Cashman’s having said he just wants us to be the best.

    The best at what exactly, I’ve yet to figure out :) .

    What do I know, I’m just a miserable little fan who should feel privileged to even get to see Brian Cashman quoted….

    Time to run an errand :)

  87. Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    I know JAP I know where you’re coming from buddy.
    ///

    :D
    I just took another look at his 2008 numbers. smh

    ———–

    Kid was nasty flat out nasty. A little more patience would have gone a long way but they didn’t want to do that.

  88. J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    randy l. December 15th, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    j.a.pru-

    i definitely think the yankees are trending downward in their probability of winning another world series in the next few years.

    it would be interesting to have jerkface explore some of the expected wins for the yankees from various sabermetric prognosticators .

    somehow, i’m thinking the yankees right now would be an 89-90 expected wins.
    ///

    We could have been a contendah, yet if we win 90 games and get our ass kicked in the postseason, people here will want Cashman to be made executive of the year.

    Jeter’s final years wasted…

    Have a great afternoon, all.

  89. J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    I find the complaining about the salaries to be quite tedious and myopic.
    ///

    I agree, I’m tired of listening to Cashman whine about it ;) .

    I’m out.

  90. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 15th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    J Al – you brought up very good points the other day regarding my foggy memory and the Robby-Melky tandem. I was definitely on record as being upset at the Melkman being traded. I will say though I would worry for sure about what he could bring to the table after being on steroids. This season will be an interesting watch in terms of what he brings to the table.

    J Al, I know I can also say this to you and have you understand. 20 beautiful innocent little children. The first child identified was a 6-year-old girl. My niece who is my heart and soul just turned 6. I cannot imagine the agony, how the parents live beyond this moment. Absence of God welcomes the entry of evil. We’re a society hung up on sex, violence, and the amassing of wealth. And as an aside, the mother of the shooter had more than three guns, and the son who is known to be unbalanced had access to them? She didn’t have them under total lock and key? She needed a glock? She needed at least 5 guns in her house? Something is more and more unsettling about that entire situation.

  91. tucker December 15th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    Cashman has been pretty good at not dumping prospects at the trade deadline.

    Next offseason worries me though. Cashman will have a personal mission of showing he’s a GM who can work with a lower payroll, so he may be motivated to make a deal that props up the 2014 team at the expense of the future.

  92. MTU December 15th, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Greetings Luis-

    I think some of your fears will ultimately be realized but not all.

    In this new environment I believe the Yankees are placing more value on the Farm to produce what they need.

    Therefore they are not as likely to trade away valuable prospects.

    But I think they will and should trade some of them to fill other needs with young, proven ML players. i.e. an Upton.

    They have to rely on their self-scouting to accomplish that.

    You and I sometimes disagree about how good they are at that.

    I understand that a case can be made that they not doing a very good job of it lately.

    But they’ll have to improve because they going to be trading in the future.

    They will never operate like the Rays or the Twins IMO.

    As a very development oriented team.

    Once 2015 rolls around they will be free to spend again and either they, or the new owners likely will.

    I’m happy when the Yankees use their financial muscle to their advantage.

    Keep the best. Trade the rest.

    P.S. I hope you are well.

    :)

  93. J. Alfred Prufrock December 15th, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    trisha,

    I am late for appt (it’s my wife, so I better get out of here!)

    I am also beside myself with grief about this abhorrent tragedy. Let me read your post when I return, to give it it’s due.

    I know you have an enormous heart, even though we have fought in here. I acknowledge that and I feel your pain.

    We’ll talk later?

    :D

  94. jacksquat December 15th, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    The Yankees may be planning on using the farm, but none of the best prospects are ready yet, so they are giving mostly one year contracts to players as a transition.

    I do think they should give Mustelier a shot as the 4th OF though, if they are not going to get someone like a Ross or Hairston, who seem unlikely as they want multiyear deals. What is left after those two is not attractive.

  95. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 15th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Let’s talk later. Our fights are behind us anyway. Friends don’t let fights interfere with friendship anyway.

    Look forward to talking to you later. I’m struggling with this too. Thanks.

  96. blake December 15th, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    “Next offseason worries me though. Cashman will have a personal mission of showing he’s a GM who can work with a lower payroll, so he may be motivated to make a deal that props up the 2014 team at the expense of the future.”

    It may be a time for Cashman to shine…. Or really set the franchise back

  97. tucker December 15th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    He just hasn’t made the moves so far to put the franchise in a position to shine. The cupboard is bare. Don’t expect Hughes, Pettitte, Kuroda or Mo to return next year. Maybe one will return, but there probably won’t be enough in Cashman’s piggy bank to bring back two of them. Then there is Grandy and Cano …

  98. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Of $1.5 billion sought for the stadiums, city and state taxpayers would pick up half the tab for construction, $800 million, along with $390 million on extra transportation.[15] The plan also said that the teams would be allowed to keep all parking revenues, which state officials had already said they wanted to keep to compensate the state for building new garages for the teams.[16] The teams would keep 96% of ticket revenues and 100% of all other revenues, not pay sales tax or property tax on the stadium, and would get low-cost electricity from the state of New York.[16] Business officials criticized the plan as giving too much money to successful teams with little reason to move to a different city

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki…..#section_1

    ———————–

    Just threw up in my mouth a little…

    People cannot be serious believing the Yankees are only generating $10 million in profits per season.

  99. The Return of Stoneburner December 15th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    So if you go by last year’s payroll – 222 million and it apply it for 2014 you have 1 16.5 million tax savings, added on to 33 million savings for reducing payroll from 222 down to 189 plus the 10 millionish tax rebates. That’s around a 59.5 million in total savings just for 2014. Not bad and I can understand at this point.

    And you resign Cano – has a possible chance at 3,000 hits – potential to go down as one of their best middle infielders – an original Yankees – - – -

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    @rjc_atl Cano is so unmotivated he missed 12 games in last 6 years and had a 149 OPS+ last year.

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    I think the Yankees are planning the 2014 payroll out so they can keep Cano in pinstripes and also stay at $189.

    42m Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    Cano: Durable (check), power (check), average (check), WAR (check), defense (check), consistent (check). $$$$$

  100. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    tucker December 15th, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    He just hasn’t made the moves so far to put the franchise in a position to shine. The cupboard is bare. Don’t expect Hughes, Pettitte, Kuroda or Mo to return next year. Maybe one will return, but there probably won’t be enough in Cashman’s piggy bank to bring back two of them. Then there is Grandy and Cano …

    —————-

    Another great point that hasn’t been getting enough play… anything can happen, that’s for sure, but between Hughes, Pettitte, Kuroda, Mo, Grandy and Cano…… if any of these guys have stellar seasons we might end up with a PR nightmare on our hands.

    Lots of eggs resting in Pineda’s basket… I hope that basket can throw 95 mph lol.

  101. austinmac December 15th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Trisha,

    I agree with you this guy didn’t spin out without warning signs. Someone has to step in. Do we not have resources to hospitalize these people until they commit an act? I don’t know. How can he has access to family weapons? Why have these weapons? But, that is another whole story.

  102. ron December 15th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    It’s obvious the yankees have to run leaner,plus the lt limit gets raised,and that means less of a lt payment,plus they should recoup some return in rs rebates.
    They put themselves in this position with bad moves.
    Arod for 10 years is imo the only one i disagree with as far as the players now,not in the past.
    That 27.5 million would go a long way,and it simply was not needed.

    More bad moves this year.
    Ichiro for 2 years???

    We could of traded cano,granderson,not signed ichiro,signed jh,melky,and payroll is a few million less,but with some nice prospects/players to better position the team going forward.

    Now cano will cost 25 million alone in 2014,combined with ichiro is,about 31 million,but no granderson when melky,and jh would cost 33 million for the same 2 players,but 4-6 prospects,probably cheaply controlled for years,and higher end ones.

    Terrible mistakes because we could of gotten a nice 3b,2b,o.f.,c,prospects,maybe even a pitcher,or some combination,while at the same time solved a lot of 2014 problems,including lowering payroll because now you can let jeter,mo,kuroda,pettitte,go,cano,and granderson gets traded,and if you wan’t you can trade hughes,and gardner.

    With the prospects we got from trades,our own prospects,spending wisely in fa,we can be better,and leaner on the payroll,instead of just waiting,signing older players.

    Ichiro replaces swisher,who replaces martin,who replaces granderson?

    All downgrades,and who replaces mo,pettitte,kuroda,jeter,hughes?
    If we don’t spend,we can’t upgrade.

    I just think that letting cg go for a far away pick,and signing cano to a colossal deal is unwise.

    Of couse you wan’t the operating costs to be better,but they could be much wiser in how they do it.

    Our prospects might be here in time,but they will not solve every positional problem.They never do,but in combination with what cano,and granderson could bring,i think we would be set upo fantastic going forward,and in 2017 we can spend like crazy with a gazillion,under control prospects,flush with money,and the best tv deal on the planet.

  103. The Return of Stoneburner December 15th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    Depends on how he’s developed as. If he is an IF the chances will be less. RT @Arena728 u see Otani ever making it to MLB?

    ******

    And now the Japanese club with Otani is contemplating making him a SS – - – -

  104. The Return of Stoneburner December 15th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    @Lrs145 When A-Rod returns he could DH with Youkilis at 3B. Ibanez would be DH vs. RHP.

    13m Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    Yea. Don’t see a big trade unfolding. RT @Jaylarceny do you think the Yankees will keep Granderson this year?

    14m Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    Cubs might be moving in on Hiruyoki Nakajima.

  105. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    “People cannot be serious believing the Yankees are only generating $10 million in profits per season.”

    They might be….but only after Hal and Hank and co. take out their zillion dollar salaries…..

  106. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    YankeeSource seems to think they can resign Cano without paying him $200 million… I asked him how that’s possible and he said a 6-7 year deal. I don’t buy it. If Cano will agree to give the team less years, he’s going to demand a higher AAV.

    Maybe they can sign Cano for something ridiculous like a $200/12 year deal so his AAV will only be like $17 million. Then basically know you’re eating a bunch of years at the end of the deal but it helps your operating budget now at least.

  107. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    “YankeeSource seems to think they can resign Cano without paying him $200 million”

    He’s wrong

  108. The Return of Stoneburner December 15th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    I think Cano will ultimately receive an 8-10 year deal – - – -

  109. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    “People cannot be serious believing the Yankees are only generating $10 million in profits per season.”

    They might be….but only after Hal and Hank and co. take out their zillion dollar salaries…..

    ——————–

    Man, if I were running the club I wouldn’t even need profit margins.. I’d just want free dinners at NYY Steak, a luxury box, and a couple million in salary ;) What else could you possibly ask for?

    You’re absolutely right though.. all that profit is after everyone is taking their cut.. wonder what their cut is.

  110. The Return of Stoneburner December 15th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Still would like Kubel over Ibanez – - – -

  111. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    8/200 is about what he will get….

  112. austinmac December 15th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Ghostwriter,

    I run a business and understand a budget all too well. My complaints are the shortsightedness in their actions. This day has been coming a long time. One year stop gap players solves nothing long term. If they don’t spend they have to act like other teams who don’t spend. Sign them if you can and trade them if you can’t.

    I advocated trading Swisher last year and signing Beltran. It would have been no net cost and added prospects which beat an 18 year old possible.

    Don’t simply wait for the inevitable.

    A board such as this is for ideas. I would very much welcome your thoughts on how to reach the end goal we all share and that is a fun baseball season.

  113. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    “YankeeSource seems to think they can resign Cano without paying him $200 million”

    He’s wrong

    —————-

    Lol, don’t worry blake I told him so. He’s going to be the best FA on the market… and with the way teams are extending players, he might be the best to hit the market for a long time. There’s no way we get him for less than $200 million…. more and more I’m starting to think they’re going to have to give him a ridiculously long deal.

    If they front load it, they’d have a better shot at getting him to retire in the final years on the deal if he’s really terrible. You could set it up so he’d only be leaving a few million on the table.

  114. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    “You’re absolutely right though.. all that profit is after everyone is taking their cut.. wonder what their cut is.”

    Just guessing….50 millionish…

  115. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Both LA teams, Texas, Detroit, the Nats, the Phillies, Boston, Etc…..they will all be in on Cano.

    Boras will have a 200 page binder to sell him

  116. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    @YankeeSource

    Q: Do you see Joba on team in 2014? A: Nope.

    @YankeeSource

    Cano was arguably the most valuable player in the last few years. Consider the position and the production.

    @YankeeSource

    I’ve always put him on top as the MVP of baseball because you can’t find 2B with that kind of production. You can at 1B, OF.

    —————-

    Source keeps spitting out all this great stuff about Cano.. all completely accurate.. yet he honestly thinks he won’t be paid like the best player in MLB. I just don’t understand it.

  117. Doreen December 15th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    randy l -

    Responding to you from the last thread -

    Some DH days, and some MORE full rest days. I agree, once a body, even that of a well-conditioned athlete, just doesn’t bounce back as easily and takes more to loosen up. Heck Jeter even said as much at some point last season.

    I would really love for them to re-sign Soriano, and as of now he has no takers, so it could still happen. Mariano cannot have the schedule he’s had in the past. They need a good “second” for him. And sure, Joba or DRob could maybe do the job, but Soriano CAN do the job.

    This is going to be new territory, relying on a lot of players closer to the end of their careers than to the beginning. Maybe they should invest in some extra conditioning coaches, massage therapists, etc. And I’m not kidding or being facetious.

    I know all too well that while it is certainly true that you can be as young as you feel, there are more and more days that you’re just as old as you are (you just don’t give in to it!) ;)

    Anyway, I’m in a way looking forward to seeing the grit that these Old Dudes have on that field. Could be fun.

  118. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    Okay… I think I’m officially on board with giving Cano a 12 year pact to keep his AAV down. By 2024 our farm system will be churning out awesome players, Cano’s AAV will still be manageable, and we could possibly buy him out for a low amount of real dollars even though the AAV will still count.

    You’re welcome, Yankees. I’ve got you covered.

  119. mick December 15th, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    austinmac December 15th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Mick,

    If you don’t like to read what is written, don’t.
    ================================
    If all that is written is going to be repetitive, negative and obvious maybe I will as others might have.
    Mostly I come here to write.
    I also realize that if not for the negativity what would many write about here.

  120. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Both LA teams, Texas, Detroit, the Nats, the Phillies, Boston, Etc…..they will all be in on Cano.

    —————-

    Andrus isn’t an FA until after the 2014 season right? Texas might make a serious push to win in 2014 if that’s the case. They might decide between the two and put Profar at SS. They have options. ..I hate them.

  121. mick December 15th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Okay… I think I’m officially on board with giving Cano a 12 year pact to keep his AAV down.
    ========================
    Wonder what Cano/Boras think about that ?

  122. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    I’m in favor of signing Hamilton for 4 or 5 years and letting Cano walk ……oh crap never mind

  123. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    By the same token.. maybe passing on Cano will open us up to the possibility of signing Andrus :twisted:

    I know I know… phantom limb..

  124. austinmac December 15th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Cano’s position and defensive ability set him apart from about anyone else. He will get one of the largest ten contract ever I would think.

    I would miss him if he left. I love it when he crushes one to the left-center gap. And it looks so easy and natural.

  125. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    “Andrus isn’t an FA until after the 2014 season right?”

    And he will be 25 I think…..that’s who they should sink big money in to

  126. MTU December 15th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Doreen-

    Just wanted to say that it is a pleasure to see you posting again.

    :)

  127. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    mick December 15th, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    Okay… I think I’m officially on board with giving Cano a 12 year pact to keep his AAV down.
    ========================
    Wonder what Cano/Boras think about that ?

    —————-

    Why would they care about the number of years? They just need the lump sum value. Front load the contract so he gets 160 million over the first 7 years and then pay out the other 40 million over the last 5. The AAV will be like $16.7 million for the entirety of the deal and if they do decide to buy him out they’ll be hit for a lot less real dollars.

  128. trisha - true pinstriped blue December 15th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    austin – the weapons are a huge problem. Think Columbine, Aurora, Gabby Giffords, the Oregon Mall, yesterday, MLK, JFK, RK, John Lennon, Presidet Regan. So many many many examples. It’s like the white elephant sitting in the middle of the room, yet people talk about the weather rather than the elephant. I don’t know the unequivocal answer either but there is definitely a problem. Nobody needs 5 (or more) guns in their home! We need some major changes and control. But it appears that the NRA is far too powerful to be challenged. At least it certainly appears that way to me.

  129. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    That’s what it’s going to take to keep Cano.. voodoo math.

    Why do 10/200 or 8/200 when you can give him a few more years at the end of the deal to lower the AAV?

    We definitely don’t have anyone else on the books for 2020.

  130. Nick in SF December 15th, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    What is the Dodgers’ luxury tax payment going to be in 2023?

  131. The Return of Stoneburner December 15th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    So I see the Yanks are eventually going in house probably for catcher in 2014.

    They have already gone in house or inexpensive options for the bullpen for the most part absent Mo.

    So, Catcher and relief pitchers #3 – #7 in the pen will be very inexpensive. RP#2 possibly could still be Robertson – and he will go into his final year of team control in 2014.

    I also think the Yanks can go with SP #4 and #5 in house.

    I think they will resign Cano – and I am just penciling him in for 25 million on my spreadsheet.

    Ichiro and Gardner will be in the outfield, AND Teixeira and Jeter are already in the IF presumably – unless Jeter does not exercise his player option – - – -

    ARod you have to pencil in for 3b/DH as part of that combo – so you are probably looking for another 3B option next year

    That leaves 1 OF starter, closer, 3b/DH, SP#2 SP#3, BUIN#1, BUINF #2, BUOF#1 – so that is about 8 spots left to fill in the 2014 offseason.

    The answers to 1 OF starter and 3b/DH I do not think can be guessed at right now – does it become Martin Prado and some other stop gap OFer – or does it become David Adams and one of the three OFers probably starting in AA in Flores, Heathcott, and Austin.

    The bench can be filled from in house – possibly with some combo of Nunez, Joseph, heck even R.M. – OF bench would also need to be filled in house or relatively cheap from the FA market.

    The real concern is SP#2 and SP#3 – do they bring back Pettitte again and try to convince him to take a team friendly contract (doubtful) bring back Pettitte at same salary, resign Hughes, sign Garza, someone from within rebounds like a Pineda, or make a trade. For me – the real concern is who takes slots #2 and #3 behind C.C. in the rotation in 2014 – - – -

    jmo – - – -

  132. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    MTU December 15th, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Doreen-

    Just wanted to say that it is a pleasure to see you posting again.

    :)

    ——————

    Hellllll yes!!! Now if we could just find a way to get those two muppet lovers back…I need someone else besides Doreen that appreciates my Little Mermaid gifs.

  133. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    “Andrus isn’t an FA until after the 2014 season right?”

    And he will be 25 I think…..that’s who they should sink big money in to

    ————————-

    I agree as well.

  134. mick December 15th, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Why would they care about the number of years? They just need the lump sum value.
    ==============================
    Just like CC and Soriano, they might take 5/125 with an opt-out, if they can’t get more elsewhere.

  135. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Texas will probably just extend Andrus rather than signing Cano.. I suppose on some level that’s a good thing for us.

  136. MTU December 15th, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    Shame-

    You know how I feel about the E-squared twins.

    :)

  137. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    mick – Not sure that helps us much.. that’s a ridiculously high AAV and the problem is getting the AAV to be manageable – especially to mitigate the other high salaries in 2014-16.

  138. MTU December 15th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Cano is going to get huge money.

    Either it will be from the Yankees, or it will be from someone else.

    Their choice.

  139. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    This will be me if they let Cano walk: http://i1075.photobucket.com/a.....s/tear.gif

  140. mick December 15th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    shame-what ‘s best for the Yankees will not be cano/boras concern.

  141. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    MTU – We’re their greatest champions lol!

  142. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Hamilton presser on MLBNETWORK :(

  143. MTU December 15th, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Shame-

    Two really nice people. Both with excellent sense of humor.

    And Einstein-like muppet knowledge.

    :)

  144. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    mick December 15th, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    shame-what ‘s best for the Yankees will not be cano/boras concern.

    —————–

    I think you’re still missing the point… this deal will be Cano’s last deal. In 5 years he’ll be too old to command big money, so an opt out of that nature doesn’t help him. What he wants is a contract that takes him to the end of his career. So give him the huge money he wants and sign him for more years so he can get what he wants (the big money) and we can get what we need (the reasonable AAV).

    Cano would get the bulk of all of the money in the first 6-7 years of the deal, which is, again, what he would want.

    Cano isn’t going to get more than $225, I would think.

    Are we keeping him too long in my scenario? Absolutely. But in 2020 I doubt an AAV of $16 million would be enough to kill the team. Plus, like I said, they could buy out the full deal for less real dollars. In my suggestion before, they could buy out the last 3 years for like $24 million to make him go away.

  145. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    Look at Hamilton with his wife and kids.. what an awful character guy!! I can’t even believe they let him around young children!!!!

  146. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Shame Spencer says:
    December 15, 2012 at 2:37 pm
    Look at Hamilton with his wife and kids.. what an awful character guy!! I can’t even believe they let him around young children!!!!

    I’m still mad

  147. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    He’s got 4 girls….he will need that 125 million!

  148. MTU December 15th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    Good sign.

    El Sol is out for the 1st time in 2 days.

    Portends well well for the Yankees as well.

    I’ll catch you all later. Got to go out and get my vitamin D.

    :)

  149. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:43 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Shame Spencer says:
    December 15, 2012 at 2:37 pm
    Look at Hamilton with his wife and kids.. what an awful character guy!! I can’t even believe they let him around young children!!!!

    I’m still mad

    ————————

    Lol, I know I’m sorry blake :(

    And yes, if those girls are smart, they’ll make sure they get a nice chunk of change from Daddy.

    ‘I started off with the Devil Rays.. now I’m an Angel *pauses and smiles*’

    Great line lol.

  150. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    Hamilton said he started off with the Devil Rays and now he’s an Angel …..lol

  151. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    well now I have a new project… pushing a 12 year deal for Cano :shock:

  152. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    “Great line lol.”

    He never could have handled NY :|

  153. MTU December 15th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    that’s only one “well”. Must be an echo in here.

    Later.

  154. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Ahahahahahaha.. this is a great presser.

  155. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    @JeffPassan: As we reported last night, R.A. Dickey and Travis d’Arnaud are the centerpieces of the deal. Other pieces remain unknown.

  156. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Dude just seems like a nice guy.

    On some level I get what ray was trying to say before but I know an unfortunate number of drug addicts and some are just really awful people and some are good people with a really awful problem.

  157. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Anybody listening to this press conference can see that Hamilton would have been ginormous in NY

  158. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Great deal for the Mets.. people think Toronto won’t contend for the same reasons they think the O’s won’t repeat last year. Seems like everyone says, “well the Yankees won 95 games and look at all the injuries we had” as if we won’t have as many this year.

    Changes are, Toronto won’t have as many injuries as they did last year as well.

    I mean.. I hope all their players break their legs.. but unless someone Tonya Harding’s them I dunno how likely that is.

  159. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    The Yanks missed a chance to have a guy that could have chased Maris’s record and everyone would have compared him to mantle …..

  160. randy l. December 15th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    doreen-

    i admire your optimism watching the old dudes next summer. how could you not like watching ibanez in the playoffs? that was exciting.

    but i really like seeing new growth in the yankees. nothing is better than watching a tresh come along or a stottlemyre , guidry,or mattingly, posada, or jeter.

    i remember when munson and ellis were debated though the choice is obvious now. the yankees should bring up a good young pitcher and a good young offensive players every couple of years. that keeps things interesting.

    right now , the emphasis is top heavy on the experienced guys.

    to really get out of this jam , i think the yankees need regime change because the thinking that got the yankees in this jam is still in the management team in place.

    i’m going to try to keep my sense of humor with the yankees for the next few years, because i’m not expecting much.

    i’m thinking next world series appearance will be at least five years down the road.

  161. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Anybody listening to this press conference can see that Hamilton would have been ginormous in NY

    —————–

    Cool, calm, collected.. making God references.. has a great southern twang.. guy is pretty charming.

    He would have been fine in NY.

  162. blake December 15th, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    He doesn’t have Internet on his phone? Old school….

  163. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    Politically correct and diplomatic lol…

  164. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Relating himself to school teachers and bus drivers!!!!

    Son of a b*tch he’s even better at this than I would have though lol.. this is PR gold!

  165. Nick in SF December 15th, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Easy crowd. ;)

  166. austinmac December 15th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Being an addict does not mean you are not a fine and decent person. He has handled things far tougher than the NY media. But, still a greater risk. I wish him well against all the other teams.

  167. blake December 15th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Nick in SF says:
    December 15, 2012 at 3:02 pm
    Easy crowd.

    He’s very likeable….would have hade Hal truckloads of money

  168. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 3:04 pm

    ‘They do realize those are baseball injuries, right?’

    *sigh*

  169. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    austinmac December 15th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Being an addict does not mean you are not a fine and decent person. He has handled things far tougher than the NY media. But, still a greater risk. I wish him well against all the other teams.

    ———————

    For sure he would’ve been a risk.. but man, that smile would have added at least .170 points to our team attractive average…

    After signing Youk, we coulda used it.

  170. Nick in SF December 15th, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    “He’s very likeable….would have hade Hal truckloads of money”

    Unless he didn’t, absolutely.

  171. tomingeorgia December 15th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    All seven Catholic colleges in the Big East Conference have voted to leave and set up a new, basketball-based conference, hoping to add 5 new teams, to make 12. If you start with Georgetown, Villanova, St. John’s, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul, that makes a pretty good nucleus. How about Xavier, one or two of the Loyolas, St. Joes of Philadelphia? Any others?

  172. Shame Spencer December 15th, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    @TylerKepner

    In Payroll, Dodgers Tell Yankees to Move Over http://nyti.ms/12rLKjS

  173. blake December 15th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    “Unless he didn’t, absolutely.”

    Lame

  174. tomingeorgia December 15th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Add Notre Dame to that list.

  175. mick December 15th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    I think you’re still missing the point… this deal will be Cano’s last deal. In 5 years he’ll be too old to command big money,
    =============================
    Ideally it would be nice but they won’t even give him 4/100 or 3/75.

  176. Nick in SF December 15th, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Lame to contemplate the possibility that a 5-year Hamilton contract wouldn’t definitely come up all sunshine and smiles for the Yankees?

  177. blake December 15th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Nick in SF says:
    December 15, 2012 at 3:14 pm
    Lame to contemplate the possibility that a 5-year Hamilton contract wouldn’t definitely come up all sunshine and smiles for the Yankees?

    Yes! No …lame that that line wasn’t up to your standards….too cliche

  178. Nick in SF December 15th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    I lower my standards on Saturdays. I wouldn’t be able to watch and enjoy the New Mexico Bowl otherwise.

  179. blake December 15th, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Nick in SF says:
    December 15, 2012 at 3:21 pm
    I lower my standards on Saturdays. I wouldn’t be able to watch and enjoy the New Mexico Bowl otherwise.

    Weekend rules …ok

  180. Against All Odds December 15th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Nick in SF December 15th, 2012 at 3:21 pm
    I lower my standards on Saturdays. I wouldn’t be able to watch and enjoy the New Mexico Bowl otherwise.

    ———————–

    Lol

  181. Nick in SF December 15th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Sorry, that’s the Gildan™ New Mexico Bowl. Gotta watch my back. Go Nevada!

  182. tomingeorgia December 15th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Nick,
    Watch Valdosta St v. Winston-Salem State for the Div II championship instead. These kids are playing balls out. This is their superbowl.

  183. blake December 15th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Phillies intensifying pursuit of Cody Ross. Other teams also being more aggressive. #Mariners among those that have shown interest

  184. Nick in SF December 15th, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Too late, tomingeorgia, my money’s on Nevada. :neutral:

  185. blake December 15th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    @JeffPassan: Two other executives who have asked on Travis d’Arnaud this offseason were told flat-out no. Shows you how badly Toronto wants R.A. Dickey.

  186. mick December 15th, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    nobody wants swisher.
    as last man standing he would crawl back for one year.
    then we trade grandy.

  187. blake December 15th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    @Joelsherman1: If d’Arnaud/Syndergaard go to #Mets after Marisnick/Nicolino to #Marlins for Reyes-plus #Bluejays would have traded 4 of top 5 prospects

    Going for it

  188. tomingeorgia December 15th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    Mr. mick,
    I’d crawl back for $13.3 mil too if I had to, but Swisher won’t have to.

  189. blake December 15th, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    mick says:
    December 15, 2012 at 3:31 pm
    nobody wants swisher.
    as last man standing he would crawl back for one year.

    I don’t think this is true….though I would sign Swisher for a year and trade Grandy if possible

  190. mick December 15th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    the question is would the creatures take him back?
    baldvinny is the man to ask…

  191. exiledintampa December 15th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    Smart Football?@smartfootball

    RT @SBNationCFB Nevada sets all-time bowl record for first downs in a game, with 36. Non-bowl record: 45, by 2003 Texas Tech vs. Iowa State

  192. blake December 15th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    mick says:
    December 15, 2012 at 3:36 pm
    the question is would the creatures take him back?
    baldvinny is the man to ask…

    Sure.

  193. mick December 15th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    i can see shame’s point on extending cano to 12/200 but they will want an opt out in 4-5 years for one more escalated deal.

    it’s also the 1st 7 years at 160m which i don’t think they would do.

    not thinking hal believes he’s getting what he’s paid for and can do it for less like the giants.

  194. UnKnown December 15th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    raymagnetic December 15th, 2012 at 9:17 am
    They probably would have signed Hamilton if he wasn’t a drug addict with character issues.

    ———-

    Complete assumption made and a far too easy built in excuse as to why the Yankees didn’t sign him.

    Yankees are cutting payroll everywhere and were not going to take on 125 mil over 5 years. It had nothing to do with being able to pick up some powder on the streets of NYC.

    Hamilton completely dominated that press conference. I would not only let the guy move into my house I would give him the upstairs while I take the basement.

    Dude is a stud and will dominate out in LA while also staying sober. Book It!!


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