The week before the lull
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 17, 2012 
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This is the week before Christmas, which means things are about to get pretty quiet. There’s no rule that says a team has to stop making significant moves during the week of Christmas, but it certainly seems to be the norm. A few things going on as we head into this week…
• We’re waiting for the Ichiro Suzuki situation to resolve itself. A new contract seems to be a done deal, but it’s not official just yet. When it is, the Yankees will have their right fielder — completing an all-left-handed outfield — and can shift their focus to finding a designated hitter and a right-handed bat off the bench. Of all things going on with the Yankees, nothing seems more imminent than the Ichiro signing.
• Finding a right-handed outfielder doesn’t have to happen on the free agent market. Scott Hairston and Cody Ross are available, but right-handed outfielders aren’t exactly rare, and the Yankees could look to trade for one. Over the weekend, they were linked to Vernon Wells, who’s been no more than a bench player for a few years now, and certainly should be available now that the Angels have Josh Hamilton. Thing is, Wells doesn’t hit lefties, and that’s the one thing the Yankees would need him to do. He hit for good power against them in 2011, but he didn’t hit them last year, and he didn’t hit them in 2010 or 2009. It might be nice to dream on what he could become, but he’s under contract through 2014. Only way for a Wells trade to make sense is if the Angels pick up the tab.
• One other Yankees outfield rumor: Nick Cafardo reported this weekend that some people in baseball believe the Yankees might eventually get into the Michael Bourn bidding if the price drops. Cafardo makes no secret of that being speculation, and it’s an interesting idea, except that Bourn is actually a little bit older than Brett Gardner, also bats left-handed, and has a career slash line of .272/.339/.365 compared to Gardner’s .266/.355/.368. Clearly Bourn is the more proven player — easier to count on him repeating his results than to count on Gardner — but why make a significant free agent commitment to a player who might not be any better than what the Yankees have in-house?
• You might have noticed the Blue Jays are at it again. They’re now on the verge of trading for Mets knuckleballer R.A. Dickey, which would be yet another move to solidify the Toronto rotation in an attempt to finally win again. Long-term, the trade might be a significant loss for the Blue Jays — they’re losing two of their very best prospects and getting only a year or two of Dickey — but long-term isn’t what matters right now. The Blue Jays are going for it. They seem to sense that the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays are each taking steps backwards, and they’re going to make a rush for that wide-open door to the top of the A.L. East. Giving up two of their top three prospects seems like quite a price to pay for the Blue Jays, but the return could be significant here and now.
Associated Press photo
I posted this in the older thread, but thought I would stick it here so it doesn’t get lost:
Yankee Trader December 17th, 2012 at 8:41 am
Good morning-
Paco-
Thanks for the link of the top 10 teams so far for 2013. Little surprised that they listed weaknesses as age and health for the Dodgers, but not for the Yankees. Also listed homers as a strength for the Yankees. With Chavez, Ibanez, Jones, Martin, Swisher gone plus ARod, they’ve lost over 100 homers.
Ranking them #3 in majors was a little biased, don’t you think?
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Seems far too high to me. And Toronto didn’t even make the top ten, which is a bit surprising.
I actually think that the Yankees might be much better than people are expecting. They have perhaps the biggest risk-reward lineup in the game. If everyone is healthy and performs reasonably well, they could again win 95 games (a full season of Gardner, a healthy and productive Youk, A-Rod coming back and being the quality player he was in ’12 before he fell to pieces, midseason return of Pineda), but they could also fall to pieces and win 80 games if Jeter declines, they have complete holes at 3B, RF, DH and C and their rotation ages (Pettitte and Kuroda in particular). So they are really hard to peg this year. Personally, I am betting on 90 wins and a wild-card stop.
“Cafardo makes no secret of that being speculation, and it’s an interesting idea, except that Bourn is actually a little bit older than Brett Gardner, also bats left-handed, and has a career slash line of .272/.339/.365 compared to Gardner’s .266/.355/.368.”
Are they thinking of signing Bourne and trading Gardner? Doesn’t make sense. Gardner’s value is low at the moment and Bourne’s value is over-inflated.
Blake/YT-
responses to you in the last thread.
Only way I could see the Yankees really having interest in Bourn is if his market has collapsed to the point where Boras is considering a 1 year pillow contract and then trying again next year.
At that point the Yanks could sign Bourn for a year and then trade either Gardner or Granderson to the highest bidder….. That’d be great.
However Bourn on a multi year deal makes zero sense as he’s basically the same player Gardner is…..if they were gonna do that then they absolutely should have just signed Hamilton.
“The calendar, and consequently the World, just ends on that day.”
Actually they have found an even older ancient Mayan calendar that goes beyond this year…..and none of the planetary alignment stuff has happened.
Signing Michael Bourn would be a mistake for the Yankees. They already have two “slap” hitters. His second half numbers were abysmal for the Braves. Struck out 155 times, his stolen bases were down as was his % success rate.
Blake-
Bourn would work just fine.
He is versatile enough to play any of the OF positions, and as you say it gives the Yankees other options.
That said, I still don’t see it happening.
What we really need is a young, all-around, rt. handed hitter.
Think you know where you might be able to find one ?
it just doesnt make a lot of sense to me if the yankees aren’t shopping phil yews and robbie cano around, or working on extending them.
i said ‘if’ because we really dont know if they are.
i’ve thought all offseason that cash has a trade or two in the works…
Blake-
I did not know that.
When does that one end ?
I need to reset MY calendar.
want to know just how bad the v wells contract is? on the Angels page, Cot’s lists him ahead of hamilton….
From the Atlanta Journal on Bourn:
In 208 games with the Braves, Bourn has hit .275 with 57 extra-base hits (10 homers), 126 runs, 75 RBIs and 64 stolen base in 84 attempts, with a .341 on-base percentage that’s modest by leadoff standards, and more than twice as many strikeouts (205) as walks (85) in 851 at-bats.
He had the best half-season of his career in 2012, hitting .311 with 30 extra-base hits and a .366 on-base percentage in 85 games before the All-Star break. At that point, many Braves fans and media members expressed an opinion that the team should re-sign him at almost any cost.
But that was before Bourn’s production slipped dramatically after the break, when he hit .225 with 15 extra-base hits and a .325 OBP in 70 games, including a .195 average with 36 strikeouts in his last 34 games. After leading the NL in steals for three seasons, including 61 steals in 2009 and again in 2011, Bourn had 42 steals in 2012 and was caught 13 times, second-most in his career.
Bourne on a one year deal with Granderson or Gardner traded makes sense…..but I still think there is probably a multi year deal out there for him.
Cashman could theoretically offer Bourn 20 million for one year then trade Granderson and only add 5 million to the payroll.
You’d add better defense….more contact….and more speed to the lineup plus whatever you dealt Granderson for…..
A lot of people think the World will end when the Yankees miss the playoffs again.
But I don’t believe that one either.
stupid mayans should have gotten the extended-length calendar. you can pick them up real cheap after the new year….
http://www.time.com/time/healt.....45,00.html
MTU
YT-
I think you’ve seen my version of the Mayan calendar.
I like mine better.
Thanks Blake.
Vehly interesting rascally wabbit.
I guess sales of self-winding watches can now return to normal.
Blake-
Granderson has been shopped now since his option was picked up. Apparently teams felt other players like Upton, Choo, Span, Revere were better options than Granderson who declined in all aspects of his game, other than homers-most of which were hit in YS.
I just think he has little value until he proves he still can do more than hit homers. Maybe if he gets off to a fast start, hell get more in a trade?
From RAB’s on how our prospects are doing in winter ball:
http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....all-80603/
I think Mustelier deserves a chance for a bench role.
“Granderson has been shopped now since his option was picked up. Apparently teams felt other players like Upton, Choo, Span, Revere were better options than Granderson who declined in all aspects of his game, other than homers-most of which were hit in YS.”
You’re assuming that Cashman is actually trying to move Granderson rather than just listening to see what happens . He really can’t trade Granderson without having a replacement lined up…..
He may have had offers for Grandy ….he may just be saying no or waiting for the right deal…..just because he hasn’t been traded doesn’t mean he couldn’t be….there is a big difference between shopping somebody and actively trying to trade them…..
YT-
Maybe. But his last name sure sounds like a bottle of cheap wine.
Chad’s comments about the Jays trade loses sight of the fact that the Jays appear to be requiring an extension (I think 2 years) with Dickey before the trade is finalized.
I assume that the only reasons Dickey would agree to an extension would be that he either sees the Jays as a contender or wants to cash in on his CY season while he can (more likely the latter).
Granderson has been shopped now since his option was picked up. Apparently teams felt other players like Upton, Choo, Span, Revere were better options than Granderson who declined in all aspects of his game, other than homers-most of which were hit in YS
==============================================
Only Choo is a legit comp here, and that was a bad trade. All the other guys have a minimum of 3 years control, which obviously makes them more appealing.
Notice Ellsbury and Granderson, two outstanding CF’s with one year on their respective deals remain with their teams. Probably not because both teams aren’t putting out feelers, but rather because neither is hearing what they like in the way of return.
Granderson is only a year removed from an mvP caliber season and he did hit 40 homers last year and can play CF…..
“there is a big difference between shopping somebody and actively trying to trade them…..”
Absolutely.
Just like there is a big difference between a calendar that
ends now, or one that continues into the future.
It that time of the morning that my dogs love best.
Later.
Emotions still running hot right now.
Keep that in mind.
Play nice.
I just think he has little value until he proves he still can do more than hit homers. Maybe if he gets off to a fast start, hell get more in a trade?
=================================
Not sure this is true any longer under the current CBA. Remember, if a player is traded during the season and is a free agent the following season, the team trading for him does NOT get comp for losing him to free agency.
“Notice Ellsbury and Granderson, two outstanding CF’s with one year on their respective deals remain with their teams. Probably not because both teams aren’t putting out feelers, but rather because neither is hearing what they like in the way of return.”
Probably….but I think both could be moved if they really wanted….however at the moment neither team is inclined to trade one of their better players with nothing to replace them with
Cashman can’t just trade Granderson without replacement…the lineup is sketchy enough already without subtracting 30-40 homers
@JSalisburyCSN: Baseball America names Phillies’ top 10 prospects http://t.co/L2SSNcVD #PhilliesTalk
Here is a team that could use and afford a year of Grandy
FA players that I wish the Yankees would have signed:
David Ross for the 6.2M he got from the Red Sox to tandem hopefully with Romine. I currently can’t see Pettitte, Sabathia, and Kuroda all to enamored with the current non-devensive minded tandem of Cervelli and Stewart.
Reed Johnson-solid hitter signed for 1.6M with club option for 2nd year. Plays all 3 OF positions and one of the league leaders in pinch hits.
Believe the Yankees should consider buying low on lefty Francisco Liriano. Get his pitch location under control. He is still a strikeout machine
Couple of interesting names on the Phillies top 10 list….But the guys is want I don’t know if they’d trade…..
Couple of interesting names on the Phillies top 10 list….But the guys is want I don’t know if they’d trade….
=================================
May not be a Top 100 prospect on that list.
im excited about gardner this season.
there’s a good chance he’s gonna break camp as the yankee’s leadoff hitter and centerfielder.
i’ll bet he’s working his asp off right now getting ready for it. i think this is going to be his year.
YT,
I agree on Liriano. He has much unfulfilled ability. Probably will never achieve it, but worth a shot.
Bourne doesn’t do much for me. I don’t much like a slap hitter who strikes out 150 times.
Not sure this is true any longer under the current CBA. Remember, if a player is traded during the season and is a free agent the following season, the team trading for him does NOT get comp for losing him to free agency.
———————————–
AAA-
Good point and thanks for that reminder. I guess the Yankees could trade him from now thru spring training and still get a pick for Granderson
Can’t see moving Granderson until there’s more pop in the lineup. Right now opening day you have Ichiro/Youkilis replacing A-Rod/Swisher which seems like a step down.
If the Yanks are going to sign someone to an over-market one year deal Cody Ross makes more sense than Bourn.
I wrote yesterday if the Angels want to dump Wells I’d tell them they pay $ 40 of the $ 42 M left on his contract…. ALL of it in 2014. OR they can pay half that…. AND send Trumbo too.
One year deals for Ross, Liriano and Pierzinski would make for a nice present under the tree.
Ys Guy December 17th, 2012 at 9:15 am
want to know just how bad the v wells contract is? on the Angels page, Cot’s lists him ahead of hamilton….
—————————-
Speaking of which, I would love to see a list of 2015 highest salaries. A-Rod is quickly moving down that list (his salary drops to $21M). He should be out of the top 10 – he’ll be behind Greinke, Mauer, Sabathia , Hamels, Lee, Howard, Pujols, Fielder, Teix, Hamilton and tied with A Gonzalez. He should also end up behind Cano and probably Kershaw, Felix and Verlander.
Amazing to think of him as not being one of the ten highest paid players… (Yankees are the rare team that front-loads a lot of contracts, which helps).
Stephen Drew just got 9.5 mil. Not the same position, but Granderson has had a much more healthy and productive last 2 years than him. He is definitely worth something significant. I’m fine with keeping him. There really is no one else to hit 5th vs rhp unless they get a pretty good lh dh (more than Ibanez).
Ys Guy-
I agree on Gardner. He’s the one Yankee who can overcome Maddon’s and Showalter’s shifts. One worry is his continued use of the head first slide and the danger of suffering a hand or another elbow injury.
(agent)86, ill take the trumbo part of that trade. idk if i want VW but i’ll take him if the yankees get trumbo.
Amazing to think of him as not being one of the ten highest paid players… (Yankees are the rare team that front-loads a lot of contracts, which helps).
====================================
Helps in some ways, but does not help in terms of luxury tax calculations.
Plus ARod has the marketing perks which are added at the end of the season in which he accomplishes them for LT purposes.
13:$28M, 14:$25M, 15:$21M, 16:$20M, 17:$20M
$30M marketing agreement based on home run milestones ($6M each for reaching 660, 714, 755 and tying and breaking major league HR record)
I assume that the only reasons Dickey would agree to an extension would be that he either sees the Jays as a contender or wants to cash in on his CY season while he can (more likely the latter).
–
Dickey has hardly made any money in his career and has a 2.95 ERA in his last 600 innings. 2012 was a career season but he has been very good the past 3 years. He wants to make a reasonable amount of money, which is why he wants the extension. He is actually a pretty good bet because he is a unique talent. No one else in history has thrown the angry knuckler, so hard to suggest he’ll suddenly lose it on age since he isn’t relying on velocity.
i think arod’s only gonna get two of those ‘marketing bonus’ hr’s, one (willie mays) this year or next and one (babe ruth) in about 2016 and i think that’s it.
Olney wonders if the Rangers might pursue Jason Kubel if they can’t agree with Arizona on a trade involving Justin Upton. Some MLB executives wonder if the Rangers overvalue their own prospects, according to Olney.
Is Olt overvalued?
The Rangers can just sign Swisher and LaRoche or Pierzynski and replace the lost homers from Josh Hamilton.
i think dickey’s very good and he’s been good and getting better for 3 seasons. he’s very unlikely to ‘lose it’ quickly.
he’s worth alot more than the mets were offering. someone tweeted the other day that if the mets signed dickey to what he was asking (total of 3 seasons counting 2013 for $31M ) that his value would go up.
I wonder who was the oldest pitcher to have a successful season throwing the knuckler?
Wilbur Wood? Hoyt Wilhelm? Phil or Joe Niekro?
Phil Niekro was 17-4 in 1982 for the Braves, at age 43, and had 121 wins after age 40
Phil Neikro’s last two good seasons were with the Yankees 16-8, 3.09 @ age 45. 16-12, 4.09 the following season.
Wilhelm was 6-5, 3.40 w/ 13 saves @ 47.
Willhelm was 12-9 age 41 in 1964 for the WS. Wilbur Wood only pitched until age 36.
- SIGNING OF BOURNE SCENARIOS -
(1) ICHIRO FALLS THROUGH
(2) YANKEES TRADE GRANDY
(3) YANKESS TRADE GARDNER
I know everything is relative, but please don’t tell me a guy who has made $ 8.615 Million dollars in the last decade “has hardly made any money”.
“Hal has tied Cashman’s hands. He wears 189 blinders.”
mtu-
is that related to blinders full of women?
i might be mixing up my media input
Tim Wakefield was 17-12 age 40 season.
Did I miss anyone?
If you want you children to have a shot, no matter their height or strength, for a MLB, NFL, or NBA career, start with teaching them the knuckler, or field goal or the 3 point shot.
Blake-have you started yet?
Time to go.
Have a great day everyone.
Until later.
Stephen Drew to the Sux on a 1 year deal?
Remind me again why we didn’t pursue him to play 3B?
Was he adamant about contuing to play SS?
86w183 December 17th, 2012 at 10:25 am
I know everything is relative, but please don’t tell me a guy who has made $ 8.615 Million dollars in the last decade “has hardly made any money”.
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Just look at the list of players that made more than $8.6M last season. I think we can agree that he is now vastly underpaid, especially for a CY caliber player (and that stat about his last 600 innings is a real eye-opener). He is quite likely to be very good for at least 2-3 more seasons, though I wonder if he can keep up the major dominating performance moving to the AL.
Stephen Drew has never played 3B. Not in the majors. Not in the minors. Not in college. Not in high school. Not in little league. why would he start now?
Yes, Dickey has been under compensated by MLB standards. For some reason I still have this goofy idea that $ 8.6 Million dollars is a lot of money.
I know everything is relative, but please don’t tell me a guy who has made $ 8.615 Million dollars in the last decade “has hardly made any money”.
–
Well, its relative
He is a guy who blossomed very late in life, so he has made in his career what a guy like jeremy guthrie will make in 1 season. It is the answer to why he wants to sign a very reasonable extension, because he hasn’t made the kind of bank other baseball players have and wants to get his nest egg. (the nest egg is giant of course)
“May not be a Top 100 prospect on that list.”
Maybe Joseph? I dunno…may not be
If the Yankees are willing to sign Bourn to anything other than a one year deal then they should have signed Hamilton
I’m not shook up about losing Drew for 8 million
If I was Dickey I would be looking for my first and possibly last MLB big payday. The Mets doesn’t look like a contending team to me in 13 or perhaps 14, I think that’s a really handsome return if it’s true.
If you look at Bourn and gardners career numbers they are very similar. I think given the chance Gardner can put up good numbers through a whole season. Any drew come on 9.5 mil for a guy that hit 223 last year and he said he didn’t want to be a yankee bc he wanted to be in the lineup every day for the whole season. No thanks
Some evaluators say the Angels have an awesome offense but that their pitching staff lacks depth.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#w58sgMb1AblXFJvB.99
*****
Really Buster – you don’t say – - – -
If the Yankees are willing to sign Bourn to anything other than a one year deal then they should have signed Hamilton
================================
If they’re thinking about Bourn for anything longer than a year, then they should sign Swisher.
I think if they’re looking at Bourn it might be because they’re close on a Granderson trade.
Signing that guy while re-upping with Ichiro and bringing back a healthy Gradner would mean that the 2013 Yankees were “Bourn to Run”
Sorry, couldn’t resist
Maybe Cashman wants to set the world record for least # of HRs out of an outfield.
I’m tired of hearing about Hairston, Bourn, etc.
Yankees will have Ichiro, Grandy and Gardner. I don’t think they are trading Grandy or Gardner. And it seems they are also not going to spend money. Isn’t there any rightie hitting outfielders in their system good enough to platoon? If not, their farm system is sad.
small and hairless is the new strategy JF.
“If they’re thinking about Bourn for anything longer than a year, then they should sign Swisher.”
That too…..I’m thinking perhaps Boras is considering a pillow deal for Bourn though….he does that sometimes ….I can’t really think of any other scenario where they should sign him to more than 1 year
the first team to give bourn a length and lucrative contract will regret it. I want 2 draft picks, someone sign the bro man and sori already.
PhiltheThrill says:
December 17, 2012 at 11:20 am
I think if they’re looking at Bourn it might be because they’re close on a Granderson trade.
Yea if they have serious interest in Bourn then you have to think a deal with either Grandy or Gardner is also in the works…..but even if that were the case it still makes zero sense to sign Bourne to a multi year deal……
If they could sign Bourn to 1 year and then trade Grandy or Gardner for something good then ok….
86w183,
Not a bad pun.
Still don’t believe Bourne is an option.
Aren’t I correct there is no one saying the Yankees are interested in Bourne, but just Cafardo saying it could happen?
Cafardo said the Yankees are “quietly” interested – - – -
Saunders, Bourn, Ichiro
Kubel/Mesa or Wells
Mauerer and Teheran in reserve for next year’s rotation – - – -
errr Maurer – - -
I wouldn’t be messing with Bourne unless there was a big deal agreed to that included Gardner. Otherwise they need to find a versatile RH hitting outfielder and a catcher with a better bat than me.
I said it before and will probably say it again before all is said and done – amazing that there is basically nothing in the rumor mill about R Soriano. He is supposed to be a top FA this year and other than an occasional ‘we are not interested’ I have heard little about him.
I think he will regret walking away from the qualifying offer. But I really hope he lands somewhere because I want to see them get the draft pick (basically making up for the one they lost when they signed him).
@Ken_Rosenthal
Source: Dickey in agreement with #BlueJays on two-year, $25 million extension that he had requested from #Mets, pending physical.
–
What a dang bargain, well outside of the prospects
Contract negotiations between R.A. Dickey and the Blue Jays “have ended successfully at an affordable rate,”
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#otLMePLyBqi4ZaPC.99
What could you get for Grandy or Gardner?
Grandy on the last year of his contract. Passable defense, not a good throwing arm, and strikes out way too much. Has HR power, most of it at YS.
Gardner out injured almost the entire year. No arm, can’t bunt. Great speed but you have to get on base to use it. Excellent on defense.
This is a big win-win trade.
2 years $25 million is a pretty good bargain for Toronto. I’m a bit surprised Dickey settled for that amount.
Great speed but you have to get on base to use it.
–
Good thing getting on base is what he excels at?
Stoneburner,
If the interest is quiet, how would anyone know?
Dickey should have demanded 3 years….jays got a great deal there on the extension ….but the prospect price was pretty darn high
I thought he’d end up with 30 million on the extension, slightly more than the 26 mil he wanted from the Mets. Surprised he took less?
austinmac December 17th, 2012 at 11:42 am
Stoneburner,
If the interest is quiet, how would anyone know?
****
Because Nick Cafardo has supersonic hearing capabilities that rivals Superman. This is Nick Cafardo we are talking about – - -
Some believe the Yankees are quietly interested in free agent outfielder Michael Bourn and will pounce if the price comes down.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#vhg5QwGCIisjmEKM.99
@Buster_ESPN: Dickey asked for some of his ’14-’15 extension to be pushed up front to ’13, to help offset tax difference…
has supersonic hearing capabilities that rivals Superman
————————
Can’t wait for that movie.
‘Some believe’?
Let me guess, 2 of the some are Boras & Bourn?
I thought he’d end up with 30 million on the extension, slightly more than the 26 mil he wanted from the Mets. Surprised he took less?
—
$30 million seemed liked a logical number. The only thing working against him is he’s already under contract for $5 million this year which reduces some of the leverage he has. In my opinion though, the market was set by Kuroda who is the same age as Dickey and making $15 million in 2013. Dickey is better than Kuroda and that contract is widely viewed as a good deal for the Yankees so one would think Dickey could get at LEAST $30 million over 2 years.
Against All Odds December 17th, 2012 at 11:55 am
has supersonic hearing capabilities that rivals Superman
————————
Can’t wait for that movie.
****
Me too!
The Jays look better on paper. I get that only what happens on the field matters, but I would prefer to be the team that has improved rather than declined.
Injuries can alwasy happen, but I wouldn’t think the Jays are more likely to have them than the Yankees. It is probably the other way.
Jeter off surgery, CC off surgery, Mo off surgery, AROD off surgery and most of the rest are aging players more susceptible to injury.
@Buster_ESPN: The Indians are making a push in their effort to land Nick Swisher.
The Return of Stoneburner December 17th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Against All Odds December 17th, 2012 at 11:55 am
has supersonic hearing capabilities that rivals Superman
————————
Can’t wait for that movie.
****
Me too!
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Did you see the new trailer?
New post ->
I dont understand why people only think Bourn would be signed if Gardner is traded…..It would put alot of pressure on pitchers to have them both bookending the rest of the lineup… Bourn leadoff, Gardner in the 9 hole. That formula works pretty well from what i’ve seen in the past. Granderson goes.