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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Putting together the lineup

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Dec 20, 2012 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Kevin Youkilis is in. Ichiro Suzuki is in. With most of the key pieces in place, what might the Yankees lineup look like on Opening Day?

1. Ichiro Suzuki RF
2. Derek Jeter SS
3. Robinson Cano 2B
4. Mark Teixeira 1B
5. Curtis Granderson LF
6. Kevin Youkilis 3B
7. Designated hitter
8. Brett Gardner CF
9. Chris Stewart C

Given the rest of the lineup, it seems to make more sense to bat Jeter second, moving one of the speedy lefties to the leadoff spot. I can’t help wondering if spring training might be a legitimate competition between Ichiro and Gardner to figure out which one would should hit at the top of the order and which one moves to the bottom. Gardner is coming off a lost season and has never had sustained leadoff success in the big leagues, but his patience and speed suggest a leadoff type. Ichiro has been one of the most dynamic leadoff men in baseball history, but most of his past two years have been disappointing.

Ideally, not batting leadoff would move either Ichiro or Gardner in the ninth spot — that second leadoff man that we hear so much about — but I’m not sure it makes sense given a lineup with a clearly defense-first catcher. No matter which catcher wins that job, it makes sense to minimize his at-bats as much as possible.

What to look for in that wide open designated hitter spot? It’s strange to say it, but the Yankees legitimately need some additional power. There are four guys in this lineup who don’t have much pop, and Youkilis’ slugging percentage dipped last season. The Yankees had Granderson batting second more much of last season, and they’re used to having Nick Swisher hitting sixth, so their used to considerable slugging up and down the order. Some power from the DH — either from one guy or from a platoon situation — could help create the sort of lineup the organization is used to.

Associated Press photo

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422 Responses to “Putting together the lineup”

  1. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    http://mlb.mlb.com/nyy/fan_for.....-492722150

  2. blake December 20th, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    If that is the Yankees lineup they won’t make the playoffs

  3. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    No way that Stewart is our starting catcher.

  4. Mike Ri December 20th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    9- Stewart — ughhhh

  5. blake December 20th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    That lineup is REALLY relying on Tex being better and Youk bouncing back…..

  6. jacksquat December 20th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    The guy to platoon with AJP would be Shoppach, not Romine. I don’t think Romine is ready/good enough yet, and Shoppach kills lhp.

  7. yankeefeminista December 20th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    And… if Ichiro is going to lead off, he needs to really improve his OBP and walk rates.

  8. blake December 20th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    jacksquat says:
    December 20, 2012 at 12:09 pm
    The guy to platoon with AJP would be Shoppach, not Romine. I don’t think Romine is ready/good enough yet, and Shoppach kills lhp.

    Yea but if they think Romine is the catcher in 2014….or could be then they have to find out what he is

  9. RadioKev December 20th, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    blake December 20th, 2012 at 12:02 pm
    If that is the Yankees lineup they won’t make the playoffs
    ——–

    Well, hopefully A-Rod actually contributes too.

  10. austinmac December 20th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    Ichiro will not change his approach. He simply does not walk. I would prefer Gardner as lead off so he will work the pitcher. We don’t need Ichiro and Jeter swinging at the first pitch back to back.

    It is no surprise they need more power. Has Chad not been watching? They have lost a huge number of homers with AROD, Swisher and Martin gone. Gardner, Ichiro, Stewart and Youkilis will not make up anywhere near the amount they lost.

    Before I hear the one dimensional team argument, I would say I like a multi faceted team. The problem is the replacements don’t have any better skills getting hits than the players they replace.

    If I am pitching to the Yankees, Cano never gets a strike to swing at. I make him get frustrated and chase.

  11. RadioKev December 20th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    Is Gardner actually going to play CF or are you taking the liberty here, Chad?

  12. jacksquat December 20th, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Yankees need offense, especially vs lhp and Shoppach provides that. Romine has only 86 total pa at AAA, he needs to start in AAA in 2013, show he can hit there and more importantly stay healthy.

    Shoppach career .868 OPS vs lhp.

  13. Shame Spencer December 20th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Is Gardner/Ichiro/Jeter too ridiculous to put as the top 3 in our line up?

    I think I’d do something like:

    Gardner
    Ichiro
    Jeter
    Cano
    Tex
    Youk
    Grandy
    DH
    C

  14. RadioKev December 20th, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Shame Spencer December 20th, 2012 at 12:20 pm
    Is Gardner/Ichiro/Jeter too ridiculous to put as the top 3 in our line up?

    I think I’d do something like:

    Gardner
    Ichiro
    Jeter
    Cano
    Tex
    Youk
    Grandy
    DH
    C
    ————-

    I’d only do that if all three guys, Gardner, Ichiro, and Jeter were playing great and if Tex sucked.

  15. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Angelo Gumbs is listed in winter ball as a SS – does anyone know if he has actually been playing as a SS?

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats.....38;t=t_ros

    Chad – do you know if Newman or others have mentioned whether Gumbs could switch to SS?

  16. RMS December 20th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    It is no surprise they need more power. Has Chad not been watching? They have lost a huge number of homers with AROD, Swisher and Martin gone.

    =================================================
    So, what do you suggest?

  17. RayVT December 20th, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    austinmac December 20th, 2012 at 11:29 am
    Ray,

    You and others act as if some board members overvalue Martin. I think we see him as an average major league catcher, with some power. It is not we believe him to be Munsonesque, It is we see the career major and minor league reocrds of the other options and they cannot be expected to be an adequate MLB catcher.

    We all hope Romind is the answer, but since his back issues his bat has been extremely weak. His bat was less productive in AAA and the AFL than Martin was in the majors. I don’t know how it is not a very likely significant drop off in catcher performance unless Romine has a big turnaround.

    Let me say this, Cashman referred to Martin as a Munson like leader, not me. I liked Martin being added as a FA when he was. I thought the Yanks treated a real legend in Posada shamefully. I thought they did close to the same shamefull treatment of Mo, Jeter, Bernie, & Andy as well. I was furious when they mistreated Montero by not playing him at C & then trading him away. I think it is a travesty to mention Martin in the same breath as the Yankee HOF Munson. IMO Martin is a weak defender too. Too many passed balls & hardly threw anyone out. I think he was a good receiver in that he gave a target unlike Cervelli who hops as much as Pedroria does at 2B.

    Cervelli isn’t the answer & neither is Stewart or Wilson. Romine is a possibility but an unknown. I think he could hit his weight unlike Martin in 2012. Gary Sanchez is a ways off but may have to be the guy in 2014.

  18. charlestonchew December 20th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Wouldn’t it be nice to slot Nick Swisher into that lineup? =( I’m gonna miss the guy, even if his personality is annoying at least half the time.

  19. blake December 20th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    @jaysonst: Before #Marlins agreed with Polanco, other clubs say they explored deals for Olt, Castellanos and Gyorko. For more … http://t.co/GUGxk2hf

  20. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats.....pid=576397

    Is the guy for real or a product of the PCL?

  21. austinmac December 20th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Ray,

    I don’t think I disagree with anything you said.

    For the poster who asked what to do now for power, the options are limited. Pierzynski and Ross would work. Who knows cost or what is available for trade. I was a Hamilton and trade Granderson supporter.

  22. RadioKev December 20th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    I thought they did close to the same shamefull treatment of Mo, Jeter, Bernie, & Andy as well. I was furious when they mistreated Montero* by not playing him at C & then trading him away. I think it is a travesty to mention Martin in the same breath as the Yankee HOF Munson
    ————–

    *I think it’s a travesty to mention Montero in the same breath as Posada, Mo, Jeter, Bernie & Andy. It’s not like he was wronged. The kid was a rookie during a September call up.

  23. Tyler December 20th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats…..pid=576397

    Is the guy for real or a product of the PCL?
    ———————————————————–

    Looks like he OPS’d at least .921 total each year in the minors…. a bunch of hitters leagues or not, that’s pretty impressive. The PCL pads some stats but he’s a legit bat. No idea about his play in the field.

  24. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Even though Gyorko was one of the best college hitters in his Draft class, he lasted until the second round because of his size and his apparent lack of a natural position. The Padres loved his bat and for good reason; the guy can flat-out rake, and he has proved it every step of the way. In his first full season, he led the Minors in hits, finishing second in RBIs and reaching Double-A in 2011. He then went on to win the Arizona Fall League batting title and followed that up with another big season in ’12. He’s also settled nicely into third base and shouldn’t have a problem staying there, though the Padres had him get some time at second base in 2012 to increase his flexibility. With his advanced bat, it shouldn’t be long before he’s ready to hit at Petco Park. He was placed on the disabled list with an ankle injury in August, but returned quickly.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/

  25. mick December 20th, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    YF that yankee video was dispheminus?

  26. blake December 20th, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    @jnorris427: Because I’m bored: The Yankees have sent 20 of their 2009 Top 30 prospects to the bigs. They’ve accumulated a combined WAR of 43.5.

    Problem is that only about half that has been for the Yankees….AJax has about a 12 WAR since 2010 and Kennedy about 10

  27. blake December 20th, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Is Australia still there? It’s tomorrow there

  28. RayVT December 20th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    austinmac December 20th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    I was too! Actually, I am a scrap the $189M budget thingy & compete!

  29. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Problem is that only about half that has been for the Yankees….AJax has about a 12 WAR since 2010 and Kennedy about 10

    *******

    I don’t believe Kennedy was on that list and had already graduated

    http://www.baseballamerica.com.....67148.html

  30. Tyler December 20th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Isn’t it the end of the day on 12/21…. I thought we got the whole day?

  31. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Plus AJax has about a 10 WAR since 2010 – - – -

  32. RayVT December 20th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Tyler December 20th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Plus everyone knows that the Mayans were Eastern Standard Time as well!

  33. Patrick December 20th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Why is there an open spot for DH but not an open spot for catcher? Stewart is basically a random dude off the street, you could easily find someone just as good for DH. Even saying Nunez at DH is probably just as valid as saying Stewart is your starting catcher.

  34. blake December 20th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    The Return of Stoneburner says:
    December 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm
    Plus AJax has about a 10 WAR since 2010 – – – -

    12.3 in fWAR

  35. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    I’d prefer Cano, way more durable and OF are a lot easier to find than 2B. RT @TarYank6 Id rather spend 125 on Hamilton than 200 on Cano..

    Well this has been discussed on the lohud in the past – - – -

  36. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Oh that WAR – - – -I thought the lohud was against WAR – or is that only when looking and comparing Montero to – - – -stop it stop it – not worth it – - – -

  37. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Actually baseball reference has the other WAR at 14ish for AJax – - – -

  38. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Pretty interesting year potentially on the development – Austin at 3b? Gumbs at SS? Is Austin the 2013 Olt??

  39. Patrick December 20th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Tyler Austin is currently a RF ..

  40. Tyler December 20th, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    RayVT December 20th, 2012 at 1:20 pm
    Tyler December 20th, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Plus everyone knows that the Mayans were Eastern Standard Time as well!
    ——————————————————————–

    I just need enough heads up to drop what I’m doing and do something awesome with that final hour.

  41. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Tyler Austin is currently a RF ..

    *****

    Based on yesterday – I do not think that is exactly set in stone – - – -

  42. Patrick December 20th, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Based on yesterday – I do not think that is exactly set in stone – – – -

    Based on yesterday, he’s a RF for the foreseeable future. It makes no sense to project him as 3B

  43. jacksquat December 20th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Tyler Austin has played only 24 games at 3B and has a fld% of .906.

    And I know he’s not supposed to be fast, but I still can’t get over 41 sb 2 cs.

  44. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    Patrick December 20th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    Based on yesterday – I do not think that is exactly set in stone – – – -

    Based on yesterday, he’s a RF for the foreseeable future. It makes no sense to project him as 3B

    *****

    I didn’t project – I had a ? after 3b based on yesterday that they are toying about it – just like it appears Gumbs is taking some plays at SS in winterball – - – -

  45. blake December 20th, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    “Is Austin the 2013 Olt??”

    He could be but he will have to OPS .977 with 28 dingers in AA next year

  46. jacksquat December 20th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    If they want a 3B they should trade Tyler Austin for Wilmer Flores. They are roughly equal ranking wise, age, Wilmer just has half a season at AA so he’s a little more advanced, and he’s really a 3B.

  47. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    “Is Austin the 2013 Olt??”

    He could be but he will have to OPS .977 with 28 dingers in AA next year

    *******

    I think he hits for a better than .288 average – the 28 dingers – no – but if he puts up 15ish HRs in AA that will be very impressive – - – -

  48. jacksquat December 20th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    blake December 20th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
    “Is Austin the 2013 Olt??”

    He could be but he will have to OPS .977 with 28 dingers in AA next year

    Not that much, as Olt played in the Texas League and is 3 or 4 years older.

  49. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Not that much, as Olt played in the Texas League and is 3 or 4 years older.

    *****

    You are right – I thought they were a one year difference – Austin does not “have” to do anything at this point – he might be his own player – I take back the Olt 2.0 – wow – - – -

  50. blake December 20th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    “Not that much, as Olt played in the Texas League and is 3 or 4 years older.”

    Basically just saying he has to perform at AA….if he does then he could be a top 25 prospect this time next year

  51. Patrick December 20th, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Austin is a good player, he just needs to stay healthy and continue progressing at a good rate. Should be ready for the show in 2014 if all goes well.

  52. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Austin is a nice story – already a c@ncer survivor from his teenage life – hopefully can root for him in YS at some point – - – -

  53. DONNYBROOK December 20th, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    - 2013 YANKEE BATTING ORDER -

    (1) JEET

    (2) ICHIRO

    (3) YOUK

    (4) CANO

    (5) TEX

    (6) NUNEZ – DH

    (7) GRANDY

    (8) ROMINE

    (9) GARDNER

  54. Chad Jennings December 20th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 12:23 pm e
    Angelo Gumbs is listed in winter ball as a SS – does anyone know if he has actually been playing as a SS?

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats…..38;t=t_ros

    Chad – do you know if Newman or others have mentioned whether Gumbs could switch to SS?

    —-

    Gumbs has only played 2B and DH down there.

  55. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Chad Jennings December 20th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
    The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 12:23 pm e
    Angelo Gumbs is listed in winter ball as a SS – does anyone know if he has actually been playing as a SS?

    http://www.milb.com/milb/stats…..38;t=t_ros

    Chad – do you know if Newman or others have mentioned whether Gumbs could switch to SS?

    —-

    Gumbs has only played 2B and DH down there.

    *****

    Thanks for the clarification and update. Their roster listed him as a SS. I was excited for a moment that a top 10 prospect had possibly be moved to a premium position need – - – -

  56. NYY_Girl_Penny December 20th, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Chad keeps saying Ichiro was horrible the last 2 years.. he was aside from after he came to ny but c’mon how can you judge him in seattle playing with the worst team in baseball, its obvious he gave up and coming to NY inspired him to play like he is capable.

    I bet you Ichiro has the highest BA on the team next year!!!! He is the only thing exciting about 2013 yankees so far. the names on the batting order are big sure, but their production is only going to be worse this year.

  57. RadioKev December 20th, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    blake December 20th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
    @jnorris427: Because I’m bored: The Yankees have sent 20 of their 2009 Top 30 prospects to the bigs. They’ve accumulated a combined WAR of 43.5.
    ————

    And a 2 WAR is average for a position player, correct?

  58. RadioKev December 20th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    Average season, that is.

  59. tucker December 20th, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Delmon Young makes more and more sense for this team. He’ll just need to issue NY an apology for his, uh, disturbance Last year.

  60. blake December 20th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Delmon is a career .307 hitter vs LHP and he’s only 26…..don’t know if he’d accept a platoon DH/RF role though

  61. Patrick December 20th, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    Delmon Young is bad, no thanks

  62. tomingeorgia December 20th, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    blake,
    I read today that the end of the world tomorrow will take place just after 11 AM, a few moments after the Upton trade to the Yankees is announced.

  63. MoRings42 December 20th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    In theory, Jeter as a #2 would make sense but one of the reasons he was moved out of that spot was because he kept hitting into double plays. Keep him at first and Ichiro 2nd. It works fine.

  64. Tackelberry December 20th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    Trenton is gonna have an exciting team this year. Heathcott, Austin and Ramon Flores could be the starting outfield for them this year. With a good start t the season, Mason Williams and Gary Sanchez could end up there as well by midseason.

  65. Hassey December 20th, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    if the world does end tomorrow, who will be around to blame A-Rod?

  66. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    I thought the world ended last Jan 13 – and everything since has all been a dream – - – -

  67. MoRings42 December 20th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Hassey December 20th, 2012 at 2:51 pm
    if the world does end tomorrow, who will be around to blame A-Rod?

    —————–

    I’m sure Andrew Marchand has already pre-written stories about it for ESPN.

  68. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    The end of #toomanyhomers?
    December 20, 2012 by Brien Jackson

    “Right field probably won’t be too much of a drop off with Swisher gone. As crazy as it may sound, Swisher was only worth an additional 2.6 fWAR over Ichiro in 2012, despite a 38 point advantage in wRC+. That’s because Ichiro defense and baserunning skills combined to net 15.9 runs above average, or roughly 1.5 wins. If we assume that his pinstripe bounce wasn’t a complete mirage and factor in the right handed hitting outfielder the Yankees desperately want to obtain, it’s entirely possible that the Yankee will be able to get the ~4 wins from right field that they’ve become accustomed to getting from Swisher.”

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/ar.....anyhomers/
    —————————-

    I sure hope that is true, but right now I’m not convinced. Attached entire article.

  69. Against All Odds December 20th, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Comments closed.

    Smh ok which one of you guys broke the rules again :)

  70. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    New post -> – but comments are closed – It is the END OF THE WORLD – - – - -

  71. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    New Post————>

  72. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    END GAME – comments closed – - – -

  73. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    Lohud Trek 2: The Wrath of Montero – tagline: This time the comments are closed – - – - -

  74. Yankee Trader December 20th, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Well isn’t that just special! :)

    From the new post: “The Yankees have added a second Gulf Coast League team, meaning they’ll have two full GCL rosters next season.”

    Good proactive thinking. Needed that 2nd league to have places for all the compensatory picks they will amass in the next one to two years with all these one year contracts.

  75. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Patrick says:
    December 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm
    Delmon Young is bad, no thanks

    He hits lefties ok…. He’d be fine as a platoon DH/RFer

  76. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    “blake,
    I read today that the end of the world tomorrow will take place just after 11 AM, a few moments after the Upton trade to the Yankees is announced.”

    Actually the winter solstice will occur at 6:12 AM eastern…..so technically I guess that would be the end if the Mayans had actually predicted it would be….

  77. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Cubs, free-agent RHP Edwin Jackson agree on four-year, $52M deal, pending physical. First reported by @CSNMooney

  78. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Cubs, free-agent RHP Edwin Jackson agree on four-year, $52M deal

    *****

    Again, sounds about right based on what was being reported in the past for the potential deal – - – -

  79. theREALkevin December 20th, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    A few notes:

    Cervelli is not a “terrible” defender. He’s only thrown on 20% of runners in the bigs, but a fairly small sample, and he’s only had 5 passed balls. He’s also thrown out 34% of runners in the minors. He’s not terrible behind the plate. Wrong.

    Delmon Young is not “bad” either. Why don’t you ask the Yankees if he’s bad, after he helped knocked them out of the playoffs two years in a row? He doesn’t get on base, but he hits lefties, and there’s room for improvement because he’s still well under 30.

    Edwin Jackson is not “mediocre”. His career ERA is mediocre, I’ll give you that, but as this stage in his career he is an above average pitcher. He is extremely durable, he has good stuff, and has the potential for putting up an all-star type season at any point. (not saying he is all-star caliber, just that in one season he could be.) He could also be a nice trade chip once again as he has been in the past. If he’s so mediocre, I guess Theo Epstein, who signed him and has 2 rings, is a moron. Touche.

  80. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    I think the value on that deal may be ok for Jackson ….but it doesn’t make much sense for the Cubs IMo

  81. jacksquat December 20th, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Romine “plus plus” defensively? He has thrown out 24% in the minors, his passed ball rate and fld% are average at best… What am I missing?

  82. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    Romine “plus plus” defensively? He has thrown out 24% in the minors, his passed ball rate and fld% are average at best… What am I missing?

    ******

    I guess Mark Newman views him differently – - – -

  83. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    “Cervelli is not a “terrible” defender”

    He’s pretty bad….especially receiving

    “Delmon Young is not “bad” either”

    He’s bad overall….but has a skill set that could help the Yankees assuming they can’t find anything better.

    “Edwin Jackson is not “mediocre”. His career ERA is mediocre, I’ll give you that, but as this stage in his career he is an above average pitcher”

    Here I agree….he’s not a frontline guy but he’s pretty good and still has upside and has been very durable….he’s an undervalued guy to me and I think that contract will probably play out fine …..I just don’t really get the signing for the Cubs given where they are right now

  84. theREALkevin December 20th, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    I think the Cubs had a few bucks to spend and are just wanting to get some innings and help to stay competitive this year…. Maybe they could have spent it elsewhere but even if you’re a bad team you gotta get some guys that can help you get a few more W’s for the fans and what not….. They could also trade him down the road.. Not an albatross contract or anything

  85. jacksquat December 20th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Edwin Jackson is mediocre.

    ERA+

    career: 98
    2012: 98
    2011: 108
    2010: 95

    His career walk rate, strikeout rate, hr rate, hit rate, era, w/l, all mediocre.

  86. Hassey December 20th, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    comments off?

    Chad must have put on his Don Zimmer Korean war helmet and is now sitting in the fetal position in his local bank vault, thinking “did I leave my iron ON and the comments OFF? SH1T!”

  87. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Edwin Jackson may be mediocre or a tad step above – but I did not think he was going to sign some 3 year deal this time around for either 9 or 10 million – - – -

  88. ac1 December 20th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    (1) JEET

    (2) ICHIRO

    (3) YOUK

    (4) CANO

    (5) TEX

    (6) NUNEZ – DH

    (7) GRANDY

    (8) ROMINE

    (9) GARDNER

    ___

    This is how i see the lineup too (online i think Cervelli starts over Romine and they get MOlina or Shoppach to back up.

  89. Patrick December 20th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    I dunno what to tell you Real Kevin but Cervelli is definitely a bad defender. It’s why he didn’t make the team last year. Hopefully he improved while in AAA.

    And yeah, Delmon is not very good. Hits LHP ok but.. overall he’s average at best.

  90. ac1 December 20th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    So we need a RH bat of the bench that play OF?
    Marcus Thames?

  91. theREALkevin December 20th, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    blake,

    I think Cervelli is serviceable defensively… He’s no Molina back there, but like I said the PB number is fairly low and his career ERA is 3.86- not amazing, but again not bad. Of course that speaks to the pitchers he’s caught also. I just like him overall, I like his energy, and I think he could be a serviceable MLB BUC.

    As for Young, no he’s certainly not a 5 tool guy, but overall I wouldn’t consider him bad, and I think for the right price and in the right role he could really help a team going forward. But you’re right, with his skill set he’s definitely a guy you don’t wanna overpay for.

  92. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    comments off?

    Chad must have put on his Don Zimmer Korean war helmet and is now sitting in the fetal position in his local bank vault, thinking “did I leave my iron ON and the comments OFF? SH1T!”

    ******

    Naah – the lohud has a natural shut off switch whenever Romine is praised and a certain someone else is not mentioned – - – -

  93. theREALkevin December 20th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    Patrick, maybe I don’t agree with the Yankees evaluation of him either?

  94. ac1 December 20th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    I dunno what to tell you Real Kevin but Cervelli is definitely a bad defender. It’s why he didn’t make the team last year. Hopefully he improved while in AAA.
    ___

    This is NOT why he didnt make the team. This has been talked about time after time. He had options and Romine was hurt. Sure he didnt help himself, but the reason was he had options and Stewart did not and they needed a catcher at AAA.

  95. jacksquat December 20th, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    And you can’t put Delmon Young on a NYC team after his anti-Semitic rant just this year.

  96. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    And you can’t put Delmon Young on a NYC team after his anti-Semitic rant just this year.

    *****

    Oh come now, you are telling me New York would have a problem with someone who thinks Schindler’s List is a comedy – you don’t say – - – -

    When it comes to voting for the 2013 roster – just say no to Delmon Young – - – -

  97. MaineYankee December 20th, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    •Bobby Abreu, who is now playing winter ball, hopes to play for two or three more years, Heyman reports (on Twitter).

    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Ebcm4dCUCpDhoUJL.99

    Cashmans under the radar signing.

    Good obp guy.

    Likes playing the wall. O wait.

    Like I said, good obp guy.

    Real hairy. O wait.

    Good obp guy.

  98. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    •Bobby Abreu, who is now playing winter ball, hopes to play for two or three more years, Heyman reports (on Twitter).

    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#Ebcm4dCUCpDhoUJL.99

    Cashmans under the radar signing.

    Good obp guy.

    Likes playing the wall. O wait.

    Like I said, good obp guy.

    Real hairy. O wait.

    Good obp guy.

    *****

    idk – has he had an experimental surgery like Bartolo???

  99. Jerkface December 20th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    The Yankees don’t care about caught stealing percentage, or passed balls, or wild pitches. They just care about pitch framing. Romine is a plus plus pitch framer.

  100. tomingeorgia December 20th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Hello, Maine!
    This storm going to get you? We’ve got tornados around and about. As for Abreu, always did like him, just not near the wall.

  101. ac1 December 20th, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    I actually wouldnt be against Abreu for the bench/DH. He has a good OBP and he hits lefties pretty well also. Wouldnt want him playing OF too much.

  102. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:50 pm

    “I think Cervelli is serviceable defensively… He’s no Molina back there, but like I said the PB ”

    There is a lot more to catching than blocking balls….and I think they sent him down last year because if his defense and my guess because pitchers don’t like throwing to him

  103. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    There is a lot more to catching than blocking balls

    *****

    That is a big part of catching Kuroda – - – -

  104. ac1 December 20th, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    The Yankees don’t care about caught stealing percentage, or passed balls, or wild pitches. They just care about pitch framing. Romine is a plus plus pitch framer.

    _________________

    The Yankees logic is just dumb as usual. They call Martin a good defender but Pierzynski’s numbers defensively were better last year. They praise Martin and claim AJ’s defense is their issue with him….

  105. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    “His career walk rate, strikeout rate, hr rate, hit rate, era, w/l, all mediocre.”

    Last 3 years he’s thrown right at 600 innings and had an era right at 4…..that’s basically a #3 starter on most teams with upside still at 28…..he got his WHiP under 1.3 last year and he eats innings…..that has value.

  106. MaineYankee December 20th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    idk – has he had an experimental surgery like Bartolo???

    —————————————————————–

    That will only come out after he leaves the Yankees and goes to Oakland.

  107. ac1 December 20th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    Get rid of Stewart and get Shoppach. Someone who can back up AND hit lefties.

  108. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    “That is a big part of catching Kuroda – – – -”

    It’s a big part of catching anybody….but so is throwing and framing pitches and calling pitches and not looking like a jumping bean back there

  109. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    idk – has he had an experimental surgery like Bartolo???

    —————————————————————–

    That will only come out after he leaves the Yankees and goes to Oakland.

    ********

    Or San Francisco – but that depends on whether Bartolo has a fake website advertising suspicious products – - – -

  110. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    “That is a big part of catching Kuroda – – – -”

    It’s a big part of catching anybody….

    ****

    No, it is a big part of catching Kuroda more so than some others – - – -

  111. theREALkevin December 20th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    blake,

    I realize that, and again, I’m not saying Cervelli is a defensive whiz back there- I just don’t think he’s as bad as others here do. And I’ve never seen or read anything about pitchers not liking throwing to him- wasn’t he CC’s personal catcher for a while?

    “The Yankees don’t care about caught stealing percentage, or passed balls, or wild pitches. They just care about pitch framing.”

    paging Jose Molina….

  112. MaineYankee December 20th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    tomingeorgia December 20th, 2012 at 3:48 pm
    Hello, Maine!
    This storm going to get you? We’ve got tornados around and about. As for Abreu, always did like him, just not near the wall.

    ————————————————————

    Hi tom.

    No storm at the moment but they are talking snow and rain for tomorrow.

    I’ll take the snow over tornados. :lol:

  113. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    “This is NOT why he didnt make the team. This has been talked about time after time. He had options and Romine was hurt. Sure he didnt help himself, but the reason was he had options and Stewart did not and they needed a catcher at AAA.”

    I always thought that was BS…..thats what they said but j believe they sent him down because they didnt like his defense

  114. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    “No, it is a big part of catching Kuroda more so than some others – – – -”

    What’s your point?

  115. blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    “I realize that, and again, I’m not saying Cervelli is a defensive whiz back there- I just don’t think he’s as bad as others here do. And I’ve never seen or read anything about pitchers not liking throwing to him- wasn’t he CC’s personal catcher for a while?”

    I’m speculating there….but they aren’t gonna say that if it were true anyway….they’d make up something about wanting more depth and Cervelli having options ;)

  116. ac1 December 20th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    Blake like i said, i think he didnt do himself any favors but i cannot believe they would feel he couldnt back up Martin once a week…

  117. Jerkface December 20th, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    The Yankees could have got anyone off waivers to catch in AAA, if they were really so concerned about ‘catching depth’. Chris Stewart was going to get DFA’d by the giants at the end of Spring most likely, and they had acquired Tatum from the D-Backs a few weeks prior.

    Cervelli was sent down because they did not want him catching in the big leagues. The catching depth BS is exactly that.

  118. ac1 December 20th, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Plus i am past this ridiculous idea you need a defensive whiz to win. Posada was not exactly the best catcher ever….. I’ll take offense, and pretty good defense over good defense and no offense.

  119. blake December 20th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    ac1 says:
    December 20, 2012 at 3:58 pm
    Blake like i said, i think he didnt do himself any favors but i cannot believe they would feel he couldnt back up Martin once a week…

    I think they didn’t want him on the team…..and of they did he would have been

  120. theREALkevin December 20th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    blake,

    I blame Girardi, that’s my default :)

  121. jacksquat December 20th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
    “His career walk rate, strikeout rate, hr rate, hit rate, era, w/l, all mediocre.”

    Last 3 years he’s thrown right at 600 innings and had an era right at 4…..that’s basically a #3 starter on most teams with upside still at 28…..he got his WHiP under 1.3 last year and he eats innings…..that has value.

    I’m not saying he’s bad, he’s average. I just wouldn’t give him 4 years.

  122. kd December 20th, 2012 at 4:00 pm

    happy holidays lohuders

    romine as a legitimate starter is interesting. they really have to think highly of him to consider it, considering all aj perzinsky costs is money. also considering it’s likely the last year pettitte and mariano play, and maybe jeter, they really owe it to those guys to put the best team out there

  123. The Return of Stoneburner December 20th, 2012 at 4:01 pm

    blake December 20th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
    “No, it is a big part of catching Kuroda more so than some others – – – -”

    What’s your point?

    *****

    Geesh – I have to diagram it for you:

    You said: There is a lot more to catching than blocking balls

    Then I said – with Kuroda – that is big part of catching him

    Then you said – It’s a big part of catching anybody

    (which seems to go against your original point – if blocking balls is a big part – why do you minimize with your first statement “there is a lot more to catching than blocking balls” – it seems if it is a big part – it is a big plus for Cervelli)

    Then I said – it is more of a big part of catching Kuroda then other pitchers on the staff

    Then you said – what is your part

    Then I posted this post diagraming it – - – -if Cervelli is good at blocking balls, I would be happy for him to catch Kuroda who can be difficult – that’s the point – - – -

  124. blake December 20th, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    “I’m not saying he’s bad, he’s average. I just wouldn’t give him 4 years.”

    I wouldn’t have if I were the Cubs who aren’t anywhere close to winning…..for a team that’s close and just wanted some innings and a good mid to back end guy I think he would have made more sense.

  125. theREALkevin December 20th, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    Yeah they clearly didn’t want Cervelli there, which I disagreed with, I also disagree with the notion that a BUC needs to be a defensive master. He just needs to fill in admirably, and overall I think Cervelli could have handled it as good or better than Stewart and gotten more MLB experience while doing so.

  126. blake December 20th, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    What does Kuroda have to do with anything we were talking about? You go to great lengths to disagree about things…..

  127. blake December 20th, 2012 at 4:04 pm

    “Then I posted this post diagraming it – – – -if Cervelli is good at blocking balls, I would be happy for him to catch Kuroda who can be difficult – that’s the point – – – -”

    Except he’s bad at framing pitches , throwing out runners, and basically everything else

  128. tomingeorgia December 20th, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    Maine,
    Hail storm about to hit. I’d take the snow, too.

  129. theREALkevin December 20th, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    blake you’re getting trolled

  130. blake December 20th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    “He just needs to fill in admirably, and overall I think Cervelli could have handled it as good or better than Stewart and gotten more MLB experience while doing so.”

    I would have been ok with Cervelli because he’s at least not a total zero offensively…..I just don’t think the Yankees will ever have Cervy on the roster again ….just the feeling i get

  131. ac1 December 20th, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Except he’s bad at framing pitches , throwing out runners, and basically everything else

    ______

    Remind me who was our BUC in 2009 when we won the World Series? – After Posada and Molina got hurt.

  132. Jerkface December 20th, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Cervelli used to be very good defensively, his rep in the minors was of someone who was ready defensively after like 1 season. He was throwing out 40% of runners and generally being a BAMF behind the plate. He was very good defensively in 2009.

    I think the problem is his concussions messed him up.

  133. Shame Spencer December 20th, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    The comments in the next thread are closed..?

    LoHud has had enough of us!!

  134. theREALkevin December 20th, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    blake,

    Yeah I think you could be right, it looks like they are pretty down on him right now. Although I do think if they pass on AJP (or maybe AJP doesn’t want to play in NY?), Cervelli will have a shot

  135. blake December 20th, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    “Remind me who was our BUC in 2009 when we won the World Series? – After Posada and Molina got hurt.”

    How many innings did he play in that postseason?

  136. blake December 20th, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    Davidoff just said he’s not voting for Piazza because of his WAR…..this is the problem with the metrics world and how the writers don’t understand it enough to use it

  137. Jerkface December 20th, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    He shouldn’t be comparing him to every batter ever, but to catchers,where his WAR stacks up just fine.

  138. blake December 20th, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    Jerkface says:
    December 20, 2012 at 4:58 pm
    He shouldn’t be comparing him to every batter ever, but to catchers,where his WAR stacks up just fine.

    Yes…..it’s a problem when you have voters using these stats though when they really don’t understand how to use them or what they mean…..

  139. blake December 20th, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    Davidoff didn’t realize that catchers are always undervalued in WAR and he just compared Piazza to everybody else on the ballot…..I like Davidoff usually but that’s really kinda inexcusable when you’re supposed to know this stuff and have a HOF vote

  140. tomingeorgia December 20th, 2012 at 5:19 pm

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