Wednesday night notes and links
Posted by: vmercogliano - Posted in Misc on Dec 26, 2012 
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Offseason action has picked back up the day after Christmas, with the Yankees acquiring a right-handed bat who should battle for a reserve outfield spot and the Red Sox continuing to make moves.
• Just moments ago, Mark Feinsand of The Daily News reported that the Yankees have agreed to a minor-league contract with outfielder Matt Diaz. He will earn $1.2 million if he makes the big league club, plus incentives. The 34-year-old right-handed hitter has bounced around over the years, most recently playing for the Atlanta Braves. Diaz saw limited playing time with the Braves, as his season was cut short due to surgery on his right thumb. He hit .222 with two homers and 13 RBI in 108 at-bats with a .280 OBP and a .613 OPS. For his career, Diaz is a .291 hitter, but he hasn’t been able to stick as an everyday starter. The real reason that the Yankees are bringing him in is because he is known as a guy who hits lefties, which was an issue for the team in 2012. He hit .269 against southpaws last season in 78 at-bats, while hitting just .100 in 30 at-bats against righties. Diaz will be invited to major league camp, and I’d expect the Yanks to make a handful of moves like this for cheap veterans. It’s a very low risk contract, and it gives them another guy who will compete for a roster spot. The hope is that if you bring in enough of these journeymen, you’ll eventually catch lightning in a bottle.
• While the Yankees’ signing of Diaz is a relatively minor move, the Boston Red Sox made a big splash today. They acquired closer Joel Hanrahan and infield prospect Brock Holt from the Pittsburgh Pirates for former Yankee Mark Melancon and three minor-leaguers — pitcher Stolmy Pimentel, infielder Ivan De Jesus and first baseman/outfielder Jerry Sands. Hanrahan is expected to immediately take over as Boston’s closer after making the NL All-Star team in each of the past two seasons. The move gives the Red Sox one of the top closers in the game in recent years and lengthens their bullpen by allowing them to make Andrew Bailey their set-up man. Of the prospects involved in the deal, it sounds like Boston ended up with the most major-league ready one in Holt. He combined to hit .344 with an .859 OPS with the Pirates’ Double-A and Triple-A affiliates last season. He was called up in September and hit .292 in 65 at-bats.
• The Red Sox also made their signing of shortstop Stephen Drew official today. The 29-year-old signed a one-year deal for $9.5 million with another possible $500,000 in performance bonuses. Boston is making plenty of moves, but you have to wonder how many of these guys are going to have big impacts.
• A bit more sobering news has surfaced about former Yankee Andruw Jones. He is being accused of battery after an incident with his wife early Christmas morning. Jones signed a one-year contract with the Tohoku Rakuten Golden Eagles of Japan’s Pacific League earlier this month.
• As I wrote about earlier today, the Yankees have left some voids unfilled so far this offseason after an alarming offensive slump in October. One of the guys who could very well end up getting a shot to play everyday is catcher Austin Romine. With only Chris Stewart and Francisco Cervelli as the other somewhat viable options to replace Russell Martin on the current roster — both of whom leave plenty to be desired offensively — Romine should have a legitimate chance to win the job out of spring training. Bernie Pleskoff detailed how Romine has gotten to this point and why the Yankees would benefit from naming him as their starter. Assuming that the team doesn’t bring in a veteran, I tend to agree with Pleskoff. I’d rather give a young prospect who has a bit of upside a look instead of going with guys who you already know have serious limitations.
• David Schoenfield of ESPN recently released offseason power rankings, and he had the Yankees at No. 3 — higher than any other AL team. He points to the Yankees pitching as the main reason for being so high on them, while also noting that this team has power bats remaining.
Maybe terry Pendleton or Ron Gant are available ?
People were just as worried about the Yankees last offseason and they did just fine until the unpredictable playoffs (pitching excluded.)
The AL is downright fierce and the best the Yanks can hope for is to be in the mix. Expecting dominance is foolish.
Matt Diaz ………….what a joke
Last year the Yankees were not replacing a third of their batting order, and that’s not even counting losing Chavez, who was a big contributor last year, and ARod for half the season. I like the Youkilis sign, but Diaz is 3 years removed from his last good season. It seems the personnel decisions are based now purely on money, and not on winning. This could be the beginning of a long slide with the current ownership.
As I understand the rules, because Diaz signed a minor league contract, the Yanks could keep Diaz and put him in the minors without passing through waivers. However, some of these contracts specify that the player can ask to be released if he isn’t on the major league squad by a certain date. I wonder if Diaz’s contract has such a provision.
they better hope Jeter comes back at least 90%
and Ichiro is the Ichiro we saw for the last 2 months and not the Ichiro Seattle saw for the last 1.5 years. And Gardner can stay healthy. And Romine can play/hit a little, which is a big ?. And who is the dh? Nunez? I realize it’s only December, but the way we are doing virtually nothing on these fronts is not promising.
Hope u guys are having a great time,….despite everything,….we have to !
joeman December 26th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Matt Diaz ………….what a joke
———————————————-
What a joke that you think a career .291/.339/.431/.770 slashline hitter who has has killed lefthanded pitching to the tune of a career .324/.364/.498/.862 slashline is a bad signing.
It’s a total low-risk high-reward signing at a year and $1.2M if he makes the team.
tomingeorgia December 26th, 2012 at 5:28 pm
mick December 26th, 2012 at 3:08 pm
I can see a scenario where the generation of 25-40 year olds would be more spoiled than the Baby Boomer generation when it comes to the Yanks.
Forget the 65 and older crowd as they grew up on championships.
———-
Mister mick,
As a member of that “crowd”, I’ve seen more losing seasons than winning ones. The 50s were exceptional, and the early 60s. Then there was a 10 year stretch of awful baseball, but still a fan. Then came the 80s, etc. Guys age out, guys replace them. That’s life. I liked Irv Noren and Roy White, fercrissakes. In time, we’ll get number 28, maybe even this year. The world hasn’t ended, at least yet. Let’s see what happens, huh?
—————————————————-============================
Mr Tom,
I should have left that last line out.
My point was that today’s younger crowd is more used to winning only than any other.
Point well taken.
Given the Yanks’ current financial situation, I don’t disagree with signing Diaz and hoping for the best. But, what a change from when theYanks, needing a right-fielder could choose between Gary Sheffield and Vlad Guerrero to fill their right field needs.
The Diaz signing is a good effort. I think the concern is the Yankees will think this is the final answer.
“David Schoenfield of ESPN recently released offseason power rankings, and he had the Yankees at No. 3 — higher than any other AL team. He points to the Yankees pitching as the main reason for being so high on them, while also noting that this team has power bats remaining.”
Night all!
Stealing Napoli from the RedSox on a one year deal is looking more and more possible as the RedSox continue to delay the signing. If he really has health concerns a 15-16 Million 1 year deal might be exactly what both Naploi and the Yankess need.
JR Smith!!!
What a steal he is turning out to be for the Knicks.
JR does it again!
Ties it , then wins it at the buzzer!
AJP says in an interview with MLB Network that the Yankees reached out but ultimately both parties were looking for something else, so a deal was never reached.
Didn’t Cashman say that the Yankees never contacted AJP? Why does Brian feel the need to lie about things like that. It’s not a big deal to admit interest over a player even if he signs with another team.
Austinmac…nah, Rosenthal has it out there that the Yankees are still looking for other rh options. I think ultimately either Young or Rivera will be signed too.
On the Red Sox trade….in the last 12 months they have traded Lowrie, Reddick, and a host of other prospects for three closers, all of whom are pretty mediocre. Wouldn’t they have been better off just re-signing Papelbon? Or not screwing around with Bard?
Rosenthal alsso says Boston is talking to LaRoche, something is up with the Napoli deal.
Cherington doesn’t seem very good.
Jerkface, I agree the Red Sox do not look good enough to realistically finish above 4th place right now No Ace No first baseman and a lot of mediocre players. I guess he’s not finished yet but so far he doesn’t look very good
Ok Joeman says David ross is a bad signing it’s officially good
JErk agreed on cherington
@Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #RedSox talking to LaRoche, as first reported by @Jen_Royle. What does it mean? Story: http://t.co/BNLiaQl3
This sucks because if Laroche goes to Boston then that means a morse deal isn’t happening…..
However ….it also means that Boston would be moving on from Napoli ….and perhaps the Yanks could get him on a one year deal to DH and pair with Romine behind the plate…..that wound t be the worst thing either
Morning Blake-
Why would we want Napoli if the Sux didn’t ?
Significant health concern ?
Also, he’s too expensive. Even on a 1 yr. contract.
When you consider what an “A” lineup ….for a postseason game Napoli could provide….
Jeter SS
Ichiro RF
Cano 2b
Tex 1B
Arod DH
Granderson LF
Youkallis 3B
Napoli C
Gardner CF
What was the incentive for the Pirates to make that deal with the Red Sox? Discounting money that is. From your analysis, it seems blatingly one-sided in favor of the Red Sox.
MTU,
Obviously the medically would have to be thoroughly checked….but my guess is Boston found something in the physical and they are trying to use that to get Napoli cheaper…..probably just leaking that Laroche rumor to put pressure on Napoli
And good morning
If Napoli goes back on the market and is willing to accept a 1 year deal to re-establish his value then the Yanks should jump on that unless the hip or whatever is a major concern
My guess is that ultimately he signed with Boston and this is all just posturing
Ideally, Napoli returns to Texas, LaRoche to Washington, Yankees trade Granderson for Murphy, Gentry and Moreland, deal a prospect for Morse and sign Kelly Johnson to the bench. Thus leaving them stronger and Boston without a first baseman.
Though I am certain in my scenario Boston would then turn around and deal for someone like Smoak who would blossom into a star.
If I’m trading Granderson to Texas then I really want Olt in the deal….
Blake….
I am aware. And while I think that may be possible, if I can get a team to give me a few useful players for a slugger with zero pitch recognition, declining of skills and a $15 mil price tag. I am not going to be greedy about it.
You can’t tell me you honestly feel good about it when Curtis comes to the plate. He is either going to hit a homer or strike out on a ball at his eyes or in the dirt…the latter is far more likely than the former.
Face…imagine how much better Boston would be if they just re-signed Papelbon or left Bard in the pen and had Lowrie at SS and Reddick in RF.
Rickc,
A team like the Pirates has no reason to keep a closer making that kind of money and there aren’t that many teams out there willing to invest heavily in a closer (something raf soriano is learning the hard way). By moving Hanrahan the Pirates got multiple assets for a guy they were losing after this year including a pitcher in Melancon who should be better in the weaker division.
Plus the money saved let them sign Liriano for their rotation.
All in all, a good trade for Pitt.
Incidentally…with Sands and De Jesus in Pittsburgh Yankees could revisit talks for Garrett Jones and/or explore them for Barmes and Tabata.
Chip December 27th, 2012 at 7:51 am
Face…imagine how much better Boston would be if they just re-signed Papelbon or left Bard in the pen and had Lowrie at SS and Reddick in RF.
—
I didn’t understand those moves at all. Was the beginning of the end imo.
“You can’t tell me you honestly feel good about it when Curtis comes to the plate. He is either going to hit a homer or strike out on a ball at his eyes or in the dirt…the latter is far more likely than the former.”
Well it’s good that he might hit an homer…..but he really needs to have better and more consistent ABs….
Chip says:
December 27, 2012 at 7:51 am
Face…imagine how much better Boston would be if they just re-signed Papelbon or left Bard in the pen and had Lowrie at SS and Reddick in RF.
A lot….Cherington really had a terrible winter last year
Blake,
No offense, but hoping for better at bats from Curtis is like when people used to hope for more consistency from AJ Burnett.
Teams like Boston and Philly provide good examples of how NOT to use a Farm system.
The other end of the spectrum are teams who prospect hug too much.
And treat their prospects like they are all going to be succesful ML players.
IMO the middle ground is the right place to be.
I hope that’s where the Yankees wind up. In the middle.
And this trade with Pittsburgh made it even worse. A guy who could have been your starting ss another who is going to be a stud rf (positions you still haven’t addressed long term) for two closers…neither of which are closing for you because you just traded more young assets for another closer with declining numbers. So now they have three guys who are miffed they are’t closing (Aceves, Bailey, Bard) in unknown roles and a market that isn’t trading much for closers and they can’t deal from their surplus of catchers because they can’t get Napoli done.
MTU,
I think Luccino is really calling the shots in Boston with Cherrington as his puppet GM. It would be like having Levine make baseball decisions for the Yanks.
Chip-
Looks like Boston is going back to it’s natural level of incompetence.
P.S. I always though Epstein was overrated too.
Let’s see if he can bring a winner to the Cubs.
Yeah. Hope Lucky Lucchino sticks around.
Throwing all that Money at Jackson was not a good start for Theo in Chicago.
Meanwhile we could use an owner with a greater passion for winning than for spreadsheets.
Calling Mark Cuban.
Sell it Hal. You know you want too.
Perfect combo is when you get an owner who wants to win and has the wallet coupled with a GM who has an eye for talent.
Neither of which we have now.
MLB won’t let Cuban into their fraternity. He has tried and failed. Bud is finally rid of George, he doesn’t want another bombastic owner.
Speaking of Bud, we have’t heard any whining from his office about concern over growing salaries…guess that is only an issue when the team handing them out isbthe Yankees.
Chip says:
December 27, 2012 at 8:03 am
Blake,
No offense, but hoping for better at bats from Curtis is like when people used to hope for more consistency from AJ Burnett.
Yea but we saw it in 2011….he was an mvp candidate ….maybe that was a career year and 2012 is more what he really is….but he still hit 43 bombs which is a ton these days
Chip-
Not a fan of Smellig.
Don’t like communists in any venue.
Another team worth trying to raid would be the Mariners. With Bay, Ibanez and Morales all on board guys like Carp, Saunders, Wells and Smoak are (or should be) available.
That team is going to stink btw. I know they have great pitching but they have too many dhs. They are going to have to play three of Montero, Morales, Bay and Ibanez in the fireld on a regular basis. That will be tough to watch.
Blake,
Looking at his career of late I do think 2011 was an outlier. The magic touch of Kevin Long may have been overdone.
Chip-
IMO the Mariners are an example of a team that prospect hugs too much.
They desperately need O and they should be trading for more of it.
I agree with Blake who said they should have moved Felix years ago for ML ready talent.
They could have had 5 or more guys for him.
That would have solved more problems than it created IMO.
They keep telling fans like Rosy to be patient.
She’ll wind up a skeleton by the time they’re ready.
Chip,
I think so too…. But so long as Grandy is a complimentary piece and not a focal point of the lineup then he’s a good asset….problem is they don’t have anybody besides Cano who actually can be a focal point.
MTU,
I think Jack Z is going down with the Felix ship just like you and I have with other players
Blake-
Nah. All the young talent they have will turn them into a world-class team.
They do not need to trade for much.
After all who is worried about the Rangers or Halos.
They’re no competition for a team that develops strictly from within.
Just ask Jack.
MTU,
It just seems like Z is spinning his wheels all the time trying to add offense…
Morales actually rates as an above average firstbaseman. Raul is fine as DH vs rhp, they shouldn’t really play him in the OF. Jaso/Montero is a very good C combo offensively. When Zunino is ready they can work him in as C vs lhp and Montero moves to DH and maybe some 1B vs lhp.
Blake-
It pretty apparent that many players have no interest in going to Seattle to play.
The only way to overcome that is either to trade assets, or spend some serious dough.
They are doing neither of those things right now.
When you build a team to win good veteran players want to come.
Success tends to breed success.
@jnorris427: Couple injury updates from Mark Newman: Diego Moreno will not start active but should be pitching by June. … #yankees
Good morning.
I wonder if Napoli will be signed at all if the hip condition is a torn labrum.
Matt Diaz, if he makes the team can earn more in 2013 than Reed Johnson, who of the two, the Braves were smart to keep. If Diaz comes up to bat in a close game with a RISP, the opposing team willl just bring in a “ROOGY.”
If I’m LaRoche, I’d take the 2 years to play in Washington, the #1 team in those ESPN power rankings, a team with everything to go all the way to the WS.
Morning YT
@Ken_Rosenthal: From late last night: Sources say #RedSox talking to LaRoche, but still prefer to complete deal with Napoli. Story: http://t.co/BNLiaQl
Translation…..sign Napoli or we will move on
So here’s what we’ve got :
Ichiro hits over .300 for an entire season
Youkilis bounces back to the .270/20hr level and stays healthy
Jeter defies age once again
Romine/Cervelli turn out to be a stud catching tandem
GGBG returns to the good GGBG and stays on the field
OK. I’m sold.
From Mark Feinsand on Matt Diaz:
Marky Mark Feinsand also added that Diaz will get $1.2 million if he makes the big league team, with an additional $800,000 in incentives.
Here are his career splits, which are quite drastic:
vs. RHP: 1007 PAs | 53 BB | 226 K | .258 AVG | .314 OBP | .362 SLG | .326 BABIP | 79 wRC+
vs. LHP: 1026 PAs | 52 BB | 149 K | .324 AVG | .364 OBP | .498 SLG | .355 BABIP | 127 wRC+
While those splits fit what the Yankees are looking for in a right-handed OF, it’s worthy to note that over the last 3 seasons, Diaz’ production vs LHP dipped to .281/.328/.426 (358 PAs), along with a BABIP of .321. He also had reoccurring thumb problems over this time period.
Additionally, we mention BABIP because he has a career .355 BABIP vs LHP, and since he has a crappy walk-to-strikeout ratio (0.28), he needs a high BABIP to be successful.
Overall, considering his history, he’s a good guy to stash in the minors and observe.
Dead Horse Beating Alert: They’re willing to pay up to $2 million for a backup outfielder, but not $3 million for Eric Chavez or $8.5 million annually for a starting catcher. ??
oh. And I almost forgot.
Tex and Grandy both hit for avg. from the left side again.
January is going to be our Month.
Right ?
MTU-
For Tex and Grandy to improve their BA from the left side, teams will have to:
1. Stop playing the shift
2. Stop throwing them off-speed stuff, notably the CU.
OR, they try harder to go the other way.
The longer this drags on….the more likely it may be that Bourn takes a 1 year pillow deal and tries again next year…..boras has done that successfully twice now with clients that’s market either never materialized or fell apart (Beltre and Jackson).
If the Yanks could get Bourn for a year and then trade Granderson for good value then Id be interested in that for sure….they’d have no power in the outfield…..but the outfield defense would be unreal and you’d also hopefully get a bat back for Granderson.
A big season by Hughes could seal exit from Bronx
By JOEL SHERMAN
Last Updated: 3:38 AM, December 27, 2012
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....Vo0wFsqqYN
———————————–
Might be worth it to see if the Angels, in need of a starter would part with Mark Trumbo. The Yankees would need to beef up their pitching. Should they look at Shaun Marcum?
Blake-
No to Bourn. Look at his second half stats with the Braves, which sealed his exit from them, even though they are still looking for a leadoff man.
Blake,
At their best, the Yankees didn’t have anyone who was an offensive focal point. Yankkes don’t need a 40hr guy…they need a lineup that can be prooductive when the hr ball isn’t there as was the case in the post season.
dog walk time.
be back.
If you read the Sherman article, do you trade Hughes now or risk after he puts up a good year that he will get an Edwin Jackson type of offer and sign elsewhere?
“No to Bourn. Look at his second half stats with the Braves, which sealed his exit from them, even though they are still looking for a leadoff man.”
Eh I think what his issue is is that he’s a 30 year old lead off guy who relies on speed …. So teams don want to invest long term in that cause those guys decline early…..but for one year….he’s a plus defender in CF who steals based and hits for better average than Granderson.
Id rather have 1 year of Bourn + the return for Grandy than 1 year of Grandy alone…..want no part of Bourn long term…..
Yankee Trader says:
December 27, 2012 at 9:32 am
If you read the Sherman article, do you trade Hughes now or risk after he puts up a good year that he will get an Edwin Jackson type of offer and sign elsewhere?
Sherman is just saying what I and others have been saying for months re: Hughes
The Yanks really can’t trade Hughes if they wanna win in 2013 unless they can sign somebody as good to replace him.
Pitching is actually their strength right now….they can’t trade that away. If they could deal Highes and sign Kyle Lohse for a year then maybe…..but Lohse will probably end up getting a multi year from somebody
No problem moving Hughes. Don’t want Trumbo. He is a right handed Granderson minus any sort of defensive ability.
Chip says:
December 27, 2012 at 9:41 am
No problem moving Hughes. Don’t want Trumbo. He is a right handed Granderson minus any sort of defensive ability.
Except he’s a lot younger and cheaper ….Trumbo has warts but id trade a year of Hughes for him if Phil won’t sign a cheap extension
Trumbo has a ton more cheap playing time left in that deal though.. Granderson vs. Trumbo isn’t exactly comparing apples to apples.
Ah, blake beat me to it.
If you’re gonna give up a starter, I’d prefer it be for someone controlled long(er) term, as opposed to a guy like Morse.
I don’t think the Angels would deal Trumbo for Hughes unless he’d sign an extension before the deal…..and if he’d do that then Id probably keep him
I think you can do better than Trumbo.Trumbo has shown no improvement in discipline or results.
I do love reading Sherman’s articles lately.. it’s almost as good as being right here, arguing with all of you
I’d rather get Olt for Grandy than Trumbo.
Chip – Trumbo only has like two years of big league service under his belt.. he seems to have improved in his second year. I wouldn’t be so quick to assume he can’t be a nice grab as someone controlled for 4-5 years.
Blake-
One year of Bourn and the return for Granderson?
The problem is that the Yankees have been shopping Granderson since early November. Other than the homeruns, what did Granderson show improvement on tthis season? Plus he’s a FA.
Shame Spencer says:
December 27, 2012 at 9:48 am
I’d rather get Olt for Grandy than Trumbo.
Sure….I wish they could get Olt.
I agree with Shame that Hughes is one of the bright spots for me with the club and one of the reasons that make me want to watch…..I’ve followed him for so long and if they let him go after he finally shows progress and becomes something then that would suck……
I didn’t check the K rates.. but just based on the basic numbers, Trumbo’s season wasn’t all that different from Tex and Grandy.
Shame-
Good morning. The topic was what could Hughes bring if the Yankees feel that after another good year he’ll warrent an Edwin Jackson 4/52M contract as a FA from somebody.
Would the Angels, in need of pitching, be interested in getting Hughes, a southern California guy born near San Diego?
Trumbo stinks. He does one thing well and that is hit homers. He doesn’t get on base and he can’t field at all. Just being young and cheapbis not reason enough to deal for a player. If you are going to deal Hughes, get someone worth giving him up for.
“The problem is that the Yankees have been shopping Granderson since early November. Other than the homeruns, what did Granderson show improvement on tthis season? Plus he’s a FA.”
Trader,
Again….just because Granderson’s name has been out there and he hasn’t been moved yet doesn’t mean they couldn’t move him if they wanted to….Cashman can’t trade Granderson unless he can replace him in the lineup with something……it may be that he’s just waiting out the market to see what happens……Grandy has his warts but he did hit 43 homers last year….plays CF and is a great clubhouse guy…..he has value
Bourn isn’t signing for one year. Boras guys sign late, Soriano did and so did Prince
“Trumbo stinks. He does one thing well and that is hit homers”
He doesn’t stink….he’s just not a perfect player….the one thing he does well (right handed power) is tough to find these days.
Obviously Id love to have right handed power that can play 3B (Olt) but don’t knowing that’s possible
Question? If the Hughes pitches well, wouldn’t we want to keep him? After 2013 I don’t think that pettites or Kuroda come back. Why in the hell would you not resign him?
Let me post them so you guys can tease them out since my girl brain doesn’t process numbers very well:
Trumbo: .268 /.317 /.491 /.808 HR 32 RBI 95 SO 153
Granderson: .232 /.319 /.492 /.811 HR 43 RBI 106 SO 195
Tex: .251 /.332 /.475 /.807 HR 24 RBI 84 SO 83
Not saying I love Trumbo’s numbers, but I think for the cost you’d at least be getting better value.
blake – I could imagine the one thing Cash would want to make sure of is that they can keep Hughes. We haven’t really discussed it so much in these terms, but this would be an interesting one for all of the ‘pitching wins’ folks on here:
Hughes vs. Cano
If you can only have one, who is the better investment?
Chip says:
December 27, 2012 at 9:57 am
Bourn isn’t signing for one year. Boras guys sign late, Soriano did and so did Prince
Unless they have no market or don’t have the market he wants…..he’s done pillow deals before with players …..he did it with Beltre and he did it with Jackson….and the next year he got their multi year deal. If the market just doesn’t form for Bourn then it wouldn’t shock me at all for boras to advise him to do a one year deal with a contender then try to steal 70 bases or something and try again next year
Benny Blanco says:
December 27, 2012 at 9:57 am
Question? If the Hughes pitches well, wouldn’t we want to keep him? After 2013 I don’t think that pettites or Kuroda come back. Why in the hell would you not resign him?
Sure….but the budget
Granderson not being moved yet means nothing. Teams interested in him were still looking at free agents like Swisher and Hamilton until recently. Remember, there are still months before spring training.
Trader – I’m following, I’d just rather trade Grandy for something we need over Hughes because I envision Andy being injured for an extended period of time this year. I’d rather part with neither and buy what we need, actually
But I’ve been overruled.
“Hughes vs. Cano
If you can only have one, who is the better investment?”
Need to see numbers to make that call
Chip – re: Trumbo this is where you have to used one of Cash’s new favorite lines, IMO: Beggars can’t be choosers.
I want nothing to do with Canon for 8 years or Hughes for 5. Frankly, I move Hughes, Granderson and Cano.
Shame…why are we begging for bad players?
Well let’s got by this market..
I think Hughes, if he has a better 2013 than he did in 2012, gets a better deal than Jackson. That puts him around $75-80 over 5-6 years or so?
Cano is going to cost between $200-225 million, over 7-9 years?
Do these sound about right?
Chip – We’re not.. we’re trying to find a way to bridge to the minor league guys on a budget.
If it was up to me we’d keep all the players we have and add good ones.
No one wants to listen to me… so now we might have to trade guys just to be able to field a team next year that isn’t something out of the Bad News Bears.
Chip says:
December 27, 2012 at 10:04 am
I want nothing to do with Canon for 8 years or Hughes for 5. Frankly, I move Hughes, Granderson and Cano.
If you’re cool sucking for 2-3 years then ok
Benny-
The question with Hughes is as the NY Post, Sherman article states, is will the Yankees be able to “afford” an Edwin Jackson type of contract for Hughes to retain him.
“Hughes is a free agent after next year and this offseason has accentuated that teams will move heaven, earth, top prospects and huge paydays for starting pitching. The Royals (James Shields) and Blue Jays (R.A. Dickey) gave up huge prospect hauls for top-of-the-rotation starters. But when it comes to Hughes, the more interesting cases would be the four-year, $52 million pact Edwin Jackson received from the Cubs and the six-year, $80 million package Detroit handed Anibal Sanchez.
With a strong walk year, Hughes could make a case that he belongs somewhere in the scale between Jackson and Sanchez — who knows, maybe more?”
“
“Do these sound about right?”
Yup….
I mean, that was the same line Cash threw out there regarding Youk, wasn’t it??
So I have no idea why we’re begging for bad players other than to say I hate Jennifer Lopez rom-coms.
I think Hughes gets 5/75ish with a good 2013.
How about Hughes to the Cards for Craig and Westbrook.
Add another to the scrap heap pile.
Chip says:
December 27, 2012 at 10:08 am
How about Hughes to the Cards for Craig and Westbrook.
Why would they trade Craig for a year of Hugjes?
PH is my favorite player but I think he’ll leave via FA. From the NYY point of view he will always be the homer prone #3 SP who never became the #1 they hyped him to be. I think he will be more appreciated by other teams, because he is not their “failure”. To other teams he’s a retty good and improving young SP.
From PH’s point of view, maybe he’d rather go to a park that suits his flyball pitching, he’d be more successful. Given the NYY budget constraints, maybe another team would offer more than the NYY. Also, from reading his tweets he seems pretty close to his family. Maybe he’d rather pitch in SoCal to be near them, assuming all offers are somewhat equal.
I look forward to his 2013 season and wish him success wherever he pitches.
I dunno who Hughes has as his agent but if he can pull out 17-18 wins with a 4.3ish ERA I’m selling the ‘pressure cooker of NY’, ‘big game tested’, ‘AL East pitcher’, ‘just entering his prime’ angles and getting him at least $80.
Phil should give Boras a call. Not even kidding, the guy will rake.
Maybe Phil and Cano will each break a leg in late April…….
Blake,
With the right trades you don’t have to suck at all. On the other hand, letting Hughes Granderson and Cano walk for draft picks without ml ready talent to replace them will assure sucking. And signing Cano to an 8 year deal just ensures we get to tie up whatever money the team is willing to spend in yet another player in his mid to late thirties.
If the Yanks did trade Cano then the Cards would be a team to call…..they are a contender…. Need a 2B and have prospects
Blake,
Because St. Louis needs pitching and can sign Hughes.
Teams are gonna realize that Hughes’s biggest wart is his homer rate….and that he pitches in a terrible park and division for that….. You put Hughes in the NL west and he’s a #2 starter
Blake,
The cards wouldn’t go to 200 to sign Pujols. Why would they go there for Cano?
Chip says:
December 27, 2012 at 10:13 am
Blake,
Because St. Louis needs pitching and can sign Hughes.
They don’t need pitching that bad…..plus Craig is one of their core guys who is controllable….I like Craig a bunch but he’s controlled until I think 2017
Blake, if what you say about Hughes is right then Hughes for Craig and Westbrook is a good trade for both sides.
I can think of trades for Cano, Grandy and Hughes.. I just can’t figure out how to replace all of them in what you get back.
What if they did Hughes for Trumbo, Cano for Craig, and Grandy for Olt lol
Blake,
The cards wouldn’t go to 200 to sign Pujols. Why would they go there for Cano?
They wouldn’t….but they’d probably like to have him for a year
Chip says:
December 27, 2012 at 10:16 am
Blake, if what you say about Hughes is right then Hughes for Craig and Westbrook is a good trade for both sides.
Not really…. They could just keep Craig and sign Hughes next winter
Chip December 27th, 2012 at 10:16 am
Blake, if what you say about Hughes is right then Hughes for Craig and Westbrook is a good trade for both sides.
——————–
For one year of Hughes???
“What if they did Hughes for Trumbo, Cano for Craig, and Grandy for Olt lol”
They’d be a better and cheaper team long term ….doing all those deals though is unlikely.
No team that’s not seriously considering keeping Cano is going to trade much of value for him. You would be better off dealing him to the Angels for a package including Kendrick.
Craig is a .300 career hitter entering his prime whonis cheap and controllable….one of the most valuable assets a team can have
Blake, if what you say about Hughes is right then Hughes for Craig and Westbrook is a good trade for both sides.
================================
Cardinals wouldn’t trade Craig for Hughes in a million years. He’s a very good bat under control thru 2016. It would take a pitcher a heck of a lot better than Hughes to get Craig.
Chip says:
December 27, 2012 at 10:19 am
No team that’s not seriously considering keeping Cano is going to trade much of value for him. You would be better off dealing him to the Angels for a package including Kendrick.
They’d trade value….whether it’d be enough though I don’t know …..there is literally no way the yanks are trading Cano though so it’s pointless to even consider it
Okay okay okay… let’s do a mental exercise and trade Cano, Hughes and Granderson and make the team better.
Hughes and Granderson to the Rangers for Olt and Kinsler.
Cano to the Tigers for Austin Jackson and Porcello.
Even I’m laughing at this one guys…
“Hughes and Granderson to the Rangers for Olt and Kinsler.”
How about Granderson and Nova for Olt, murphey and Perez?
Okay this is officially fun.. If I trade Cano AND Hughes to the Angels, who can I get?
Grandy for Olt!
Hughes aint Sandy Koufax. He’s a 3 or 4 slotter, and those Can be traded for. Losing Hughes aint gonna wreck the Yankees. The Hat and the Bat, will not be flown at half staff, should Hughes either leave as a free agent, or be traded. Sherman writes something about a player and you guys do a Pied Piper routine and swallow it, and then spit it back out here. You walk in lock-step, in some kinda Svengali trance, giving NO individual thought to what is being written\said. You gotta evaluate talent on YOUR OWN, with your OWN 2 eyes. Get a Clue, get a Thought, get Ahold of yourself.
blake December 27th, 2012 at 10:23 am
“Hughes and Granderson to the Rangers for Olt and Kinsler.”
How about Granderson and Nova for Olt, murphey and Perez?
———————
I like that too, why not?
If the Yanks did trade Cano then the Cards would be a team to call…..they are a contender…. Need a 2B and have prospects
=====================================
They have prospects, but the ones like Taveras, Miller, Wacha and Martinez would probably be made untouchable. Taveras and Miller for sure. Wacha may not be tradeable due to when he was drafted. Would the Cards or Yankees do Martinez and K. Wong for Cano? Maybe. But do the Yankees think they can sell that to the fan base?
Wish I could stay and chat some more. Concerns I’d have trading for either Hughes or Granderson, if I was a GM:
Hughes and the fly ball rate. I believe he led all AL pitchers in giving up homers. Does he really have an above average 3rd pitch?
Granderson and the decline in all stats this past season except homers, many hit in YS. Where was the speed? Triples, Doubles, stolen bases all down. Strikeouts up. Exposed by the shift and in a walk year.
Have to go.
Have a great day everyone.
Again Happy Holidays and a wish for all of you and your families for a Happy and Healthy New Year.
Shame Spencer says:
December 27, 2012 at 10:23 am
Okay this is officially fun.. If I trade Cano AND Hughes to the Angels, who can I get?
They don’t have anybody Id do that for that they’d actually trade
“They have prospects, but the ones like Taveras, Miller, Wacha and Martinez would probably be made untouchable. Taveras and Miller for sure”
Eh….they wouldn’t do Taveras….but Im not sure Shelby Miller would be off the table for a guy like Cano even for a year…..I’m not sure Id actually trade Cano for a maybe like miller though
blake December 27th, 2012 at 10:25 am
Shame Spencer says:
December 27, 2012 at 10:23 am
Okay this is officially fun.. If I trade Cano AND Hughes to the Angels, who can I get?
They don’t have anybody Id do that for that they’d actually trade
—————–
Okay okay okay (<– I'm saying this like a little kid ready to open presents, btw) let's try to package Cano and Hughes to a team we could get some good stuff for… Miami? Arizona? Detroit? Minny? St Louis? Atlanta? …San Diego? ….Pittsburgh?
“Sherman writes something about a player and you guys do a Pied Piper routine and swallow it, and then spit it back out here”
Actually Sherman’s column is basically straight from discussion here
And why Must Cano be traded for Prospects??? A Cano trade could bring an Established MLB’er or 2, in addition to a busher or 2. Come on now. The 1 dimensional thinking Here, should be confined to Cashman’s office.
Three team deal:
Pirates get Hughes and Kendrick and Trumbo
Angels get Cano
Yanks get Walker, Pedro Alvarez and Morton from Pirates, and Conger from Angels
Granderson to Rangers for Murphy and Gentry
My wish for the Yankees.
New owner: Mark Cuban
New GM: Kevin Towers
“Okay okay okay (<– I'm saying this like a little kid ready to open presents, btw) let's try to package Cano and Hughes to a team we could get some good stuff for… Miami? Arizona? Detroit? Minny? St Louis? Atlanta? …San Diego? ….Pittsburgh?"
Miami: Giancarlo ! Doesn't match
Arizona: Upton
Detroit: Castellanos, Porcello, and Rondon
Minny: you have nothing I want
Cards: Taveras, Miller, Craig , etc
Atlanta: doesn't match up for me
Padres: Headley but doesn't match up
Pittsburgh: cole, etc….they wouldn't do it.
Really there are only a handful of teams that have enough to give back for Cano and that are contenders who might give it…..Detroit, Arizona, Nats, etc…..it would just be hard to get enough back to actually trade him given that 2013 may be their best shot for a title for awhile …..JMo
You guys need to just eat your gruel and be content
Chip, just got back to this thread after a couple hours of work.
In case you see this, thanks for the explanation on the Sox/Pirates trade. Makes more sense when you put it that way.
Yea, Yesterday everybody here was discussing how Hughes stacked up to Sanchez and Jackson. NOT. Denial just don’t cut it. Get outta that conga line, and try a few steps\thoughts of your own. The water is fine, but you gotta take that 1st plunge in order to know.
Hughes was directly compared to both at the times of each of their signings and the impact on Hughes future FA was discussed. Use yer eyes, hillbilly.
….I want Giancarlo so badly…
I think Granderson and Nova for Olt, Murphey, and Perez makes sense for both sides.
Grandy gives Texas a Hamilton replacement and a starter for their rotation…..Olt is blocked in Texas and he gives the Yankees a potential solution longterm at 3B….murphey slots in to the OF rotation….and Perez gives them basically another Banuelos (maybe one will pan out)
That might be too much on Texas’s side to give….but there is probably a framework for a deal there if both sides are willing to deal and get creative
Shame Spencer says:
December 27, 2012 at 10:40 am
….I want Giancarlo so badly…
All the prospects for GIANCARLO!
I’d look at a trade with Detroit… they probably won’t.
To be honest, it ain’t that tough to fill the Closer slot. Now, I’m Not talkin’ MO type dominanace, but there are plenty of relievers that can do the 9th. The R\Sox pulled another Boner.
The Tigers are so in win now mode that they’d probably give a lot for Cano…..problem is they’d have to give a lot before Id let them have a fielder, Cabrera, Cano middle of the order…..
Let’s get the Tigers and Dback on the horn and try a three-way deal so we end up with Upton.
The Diaz deal looks like a winner to me, another brilliant minor move by Cashman, like Chavez and Ibanez of past years, at minimal cost to the team. The guy can hit lefties and is fairly young.
Some of you have forgotten. Cashman most times gets screwed when he trades. Hopefully nothing develops.
As my Dad told me Many times, they always resort to the personal attack, when All else fails. That 10:39 post proves you right again Dad.
I don’t mind the Diaz signing, but it’s being trumpeted is testament to a Very dull Yankee Hot Stove. Diaz ain’t no Chad Curtis.
The Tigers are so in win now mode that they’d probably give a lot for Cano…..problem is they’d have to give a lot before Id let them have a fielder, Cabrera, Cano middle of the order…..
===================================
Not sure they have a lot though. Getting Hunter and VMart in their lineup and getting rid of Young and the DH du jour makes them better already. Still think they sign Soriano. Just can’t see ‘em putting that team together and not having a legit closer.
Blake,
I like that trade with Texas.
blake December 27th, 2012 at 10:44 am
The Tigers have Fielder, Cabrera, & V-Mart in 2013 which is scary good.
The Tigers looked just as inept vs SF, as we did vs them. As in life, it’s ALL about timing.
I wish the Nats would give us Zimmerman..
Sherman is the only NY sportswriter that seems to understand what is happening and what will happen. Of course, he doesn’t understand it as well as many do here.
He is not a schill. Hence, the near fistfight with Girardi last year.
Meanwhile Feinsand is extolling the virtues of Diaz who hasn’t had a good year since about 2009.
David in Cal December 26th, 2012 at 9:50 pm
Given the Yanks’ current financial situation, I don’t disagree with signing Diaz and hoping for the best. But, what a change from when theYanks, needing a right-fielder could choose between Gary Sheffield and Vlad Guerrero to fill their right field needs.
_____________________________________________________________
You mean their self imposed financial situation? The Yankees print money like a casino.
I wish the Nats would give us Zimmerman..
=======================
Not sure which Zimmerman you speak of, but I suspect the Nats will be keeping the band together for the next few years anyway.
“Not sure they have a lot though. Getting Hunter and VMart in their lineup and getting rid of Young and the DH du jour makes them better already. Still think they sign Soriano. Just can’t see ‘em putting that team together and not having a legit closer.”
Could say the same for the Jays and Dodgers….I think Soriano ends up with one of those 3 teams
Both Feinsand and Sherman are shills. Sherman issa Yankee fan, and sometimes that gets the better of him as we saw 1 Time last season Bottom line, he needs a pipeline for knowledge in Yankee Universe, and being contrary will result in the need to call Roto Rooter. So he schill’s.
Ryan.
RayVT says:
December 27, 2012 at 10:52 am
blake December 27th, 2012 at 10:44 am
The Tigers have Fielder, Cabrera, & V-Mart in 2013 which is scary good.
What if they added Cano?
Sherman and Marshand have been the ones to question what the Yanks are doing…..Feinsand is a total schill and just spreads pro front office propaganda…..if you notice he’s been breaking stories for them lately too….
I just hate the thought of the Yankees signing a player\Diaz, that had trouble sticking as a bench player with the Braves. There’s bottom of the barrel, and then there’s bottom of the barrel.
The Yanks for the most part seem to have the NY media in their pocket….a couple of the writers are questioning this budget stuff but most of them seem to be on board and coverjng for them because they want to stay in their good graces to get information for stories
I just hate the thought of the Yankees signing a player\Diaz, that had trouble sticking as a bench player with the Braves. There’s bottom of the barrel, and then there’s bottom of the barrel.
=============================
It’s a minor league deal. No real harm in that.
I’ll take Davidoff anyday. Just bare bones stuff. No fluff, No buffing, Not ground breaking, but a fresh perspective presented from a Fan’s Eye. Since arriving, Davidoff has pushed Sherman, but you can’t get water outta a stone.
The Yanks for the most part seem to have the NY media in their pocket….a couple of the writers are questioning this budget stuff but most of them seem to be on board and coverjng for them because they want to stay in their good graces to get information for stories
=================================
Haven’t seen anyone singing their praises over this decision. Haven’t seen anyone blast them for it either. That’s never going to happen with a beat guy, who’s only job is to report what’s happening. Yankees haven’t been underhanded, or in anyway dishonest about this. They’ve stated their objective and that’s it. Now if a columnist wants to call ‘em on it, that’s one thing, but regular beat guys aren’t there to offer opinions.
MTU says:
December 27, 2012 at 8:46 am
“It pretty apparent that many players have no interest in going to Seattle to play.
The only way to overcome that is either to trade assets, or spend some serious dough.
They are doing neither of those things right now.”
~
MTU ~
Frankly, I’ve been too over the moon about my Seahawks to worry much about the M’s at this point – especially since the calendar hasn’t even turned to the new year yet … plenty of time for JZ to get something done prior to PACR
We must remember these crack sports reporters weren’t exactly all over steroid use stories until very late.
With respect to Diaz, he is a worthwhile signing as he could conceivably help. However, that does not solve the offensive issues, and I darn sure hope the Yankees are still working on it.
DONNYBROOK says:
December 27, 2012 at 11:16 am
I’ll take Davidoff anyday. Just bare bones stuff. No fluff, No buffing, Not ground breaking, but a fresh perspective presented from a Fan’s Eye. Since arriving, Davidoff has pushed Sherman, but you can’t get water outta a stone.
Davidoff used soley WAR for his HoF ballot….no eyes at all
blake December 27th, 2012 at 11:12 am
The Yanks for the most part seem to have the NY media in their pocket….a couple of the writers are questioning this budget stuff but most of them seem to be on board and coverjng for them because they want to stay in their good graces to get information for stories
——————–
I still don’t get how none of them can get the LT thing right though…. I can’t tell if it’s blissful ignorance, a conscious decision, or just the pack-journalist mentality that stops them from actually understanding the CBA.
“Haven’t seen anyone singing their praises over this decision. Haven’t seen anyone blast them for it either. That’s never going to happen with a beat guy, who’s only job is to report what’s happening. Yankees haven’t been underhanded, or in anyway dishonest about this. They’ve stated their objective and that’s it. Now if a columnist wants to call ‘em on it, that’s one thing, but regular beat guys aren’t there to offer opinions.”
It’s just an opinion ….I could be wrong but It seems like to me the media has gone right along with the thrifty Yankees ….and they have sorta been dishonest by saying it’ll only be a 10% payroll reduction and that they are as committed to winning as ever ….Etc…..
AAA – They’re actually reporting misinformation in a lot of cases though…
AAA – They’re actually reporting misinformation in a lot of cases though…
==========================
Such as?
i was just checking out the post-christmas post from last year. found this”
DONNYBROOK January 1st, 2012 at 11:04 am
- PROJECTED 2012 YANKEE HR LEADERS -
(1) CANO – 40 HRS
(2) A-ROD – 36 HRS
(3) GRANDY – 35 HRS
(4) TEX – 32 HRS
(5) MONTERO – 31 HRS
(6) SWISHER – 23 HRS
(7) MARTIN – 21 HRS
3 right, 4 wrong. (montero didnt get half that.)
“Such as?”
Well that they aren’t only reducing payroll by 10% when it’s closer to 20 if they go through with getting under the cap….not outright lying ….but just spinning things to casual fans
Some of the beat writers in radio interview & print are suggesting the 50% tax is worse than it is, how the 189 is calculated, current obligations which count towards that goal, etc
i just think alot of baseball writers are a little lazy when it comes to working out the math. someone said it worked out to x number of dollars and alot of others just repeated it. but there are a LOT of variables so how much they save depends on how much you expect they WOULD HAVE spent had they not gone under the cap.
Right….fudging the numbers so that the payroll reduction looks less than it will be and so that the tax implications look worse than they will be…..
IMO the Yankees and the writers (who either don’t understand this stuff or do and are covering for them )are spinning all this to the casual fan to keep them coming to the ball park…..
“i just think alot of baseball writers are a little lazy when it comes to working out the math. ”
Maybe so….but it’s kinda their job to know this stuff
I agree the reporters are simply reiterating what the Yankee management tells them. Sportswriters are not known for their investigative journalism.
I would like one reporter to ask and get an answer for what are the plans for fielding a competitive team in 2014 with somewhere between $45-$70 million to spend(depending on Cano) and a possible need for a catcher, 2B, SS(maybe), 3B(more than likely), two outfielders, two or more starting pitchers and a closer.
well another problem is that in order to put a # in a column, they have to lay out all the suppositions and calculations and explain what the oakland a’s have to do with it. and you have to compare the numbers to an unknowable amount that the yankees WOULD HAVE spend had they not gotten under the LT plus some estimate of what the yankeees would have or will spend in 2016 after getting under the cap.
that takes up alot of space and some editors might just tell them to take it out. its not an easy calculation.
thats alot of detail alot of editors would just tell them to cut out the details and throw a # in there and move on.
thats alot of detail alot of editors would just tell them to cut out the details and throw a # in there and move on.
–
But even the simple numbers they do use are wrong. The amount currently applied towards the 189. How it can be spent (many articles imply the entire 189 can be spent on players which is definitely false). How Jeter counts towards the limit (most write 3 or 9.5)
i like davidoff, too but newsday’s unfortunate attempt to make people pay for their crappy paper over the past few years (now abandoned) pretty much put him out of sight, out of mind.
Some of the beat writers in radio interview & print are suggesting the 50% tax is worse than it is, how the 189 is calculated, current obligations which count towards that goal, etc
=============================================
The 50% is in the eye of the beholder, and the only beholder that matters is H. Steinbrenner.
As for the rest, I agree that not all these guys are clear on the calculations, which they really should be given the position the organization has taken.
people always want a nice simple %. its easy to understand. but it really doesnt apply in the overall b/c of all the variables. the total amount of savings varies each year, and comes from different sources, too.
Matsui has decided to retire.
goodbye and thank you godzilla!
what about damon?
Even though this is about a player for the Celtics read this and apply it to players on teams you cheer for.
This is a paragraph from this article.
http://redsarmy.com/2012/12/27.....eff-green/
“As mentioned, I took the time to watch your special feature on ESPN, and I must say it was nothing short of moving. It is because of that feature that I decided to write this letter. All too often with Boston sports, we take our teams far more serious than we should and forget the human aspect of the game. The Boston fans and media have caused countless nervous breakdowns to occur between players and managers of the four major teams in the Boston market. We forget that these are people and expect perfection out of them at all times, regardless of circumstances. While some players may be great at handling adversity such as the flu or the death of a parent or loved ones, we often fail to consider how we would operate under similar circumstances should such a scenario be placed onto our own shoulders. And that is where you come in Mr. Green.”
If Hairston goes somewhere else, I hope the Yankees next call is to PR & image advisers to help the signing of Delmon Young go as smoothly as possible.
Ys Guy December 27th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
goodbye and thank you godzilla!
what about damon?
————————————————————
He’s waiting for Erica to win the lottery so she can pay him to play for the Yankees.
:
Someone made the comment earlier that the Yankees should consider claiming DJ Mitchell off waivers from the Mariners. Generally, if the Mariners put you on waivers, you don’t have much to offer. It is not exactly a talent rich team that can waiver decent talent.
austinmac December 27th, 2012 at 11:23 am
We must remember these crack sports reporters weren’t exactly all over steroid use stories until very late.
———————–
And then they decided to hunt down every rumor known to man and point fingers smh.
compass seems to think the M’s have good young pitching in their minors.
in any case, the yankees know alot more about dj mitchell than the mariners do.
I would like one reporter to ask and get an answer for what are the plans for fielding a competitive team in 2014 with somewhere between $45-$70 million to spend(depending on Cano) and a possible need for a catcher, 2B, SS(maybe), 3B(more than likely), two outfielders, two or more starting pitchers and a closer.
=============================
all questions are asked.
they just aren’t answered.
even tebow knows what to say and avoid.
he laughed at some reporters yesterday.
they are out to protect their own best interests and are told what to say.
sort of like the government.
the a’s paid their entire division winning team $55M and they didnt have sabathia, jeter, teixeira and arod.
With respect to Diaz, he is a worthwhile signing as he could conceivably help. However, that does not solve the offensive issues, and I darn sure hope the Yankees are still working on it.
==============================
Diaz is a missing piece.
That’s what they are looking for now, pieces.
They think they will be competitive if all goes right.
No matter how much some will denigrate or underestimate Tex, Granderson and Jeter are quality ballplayers along with Gardner, Youkilis, Cano and Ichiro.
If Hairston goes somewhere else, I hope the Yankees next call is to PR & image advisers to help the signing of Delmon Young go as smoothly as possible.
=====================================
They don’t seem to want to commit to a DH. Maybe , more than ever, they are leaving that spot open for Jeter and Arod with Nunez getting a shot there and at SS.
You would think Ibanez was the perfect fit but if they can save 2m by getting Thome at the last second, he could be the man.
Frankg says:
December 27, 2012 at 12:49 pm
Someone made the comment earlier that the Yankees should consider claiming DJ Mitchell off waivers from the Mariners. Generally, if the Mariners put you on waivers, you don’t have much to offer. It is not exactly a talent rich team that can waiver decent talent.
~
Where ya been, Frankg?
The M’s have a very strong farm system.
It’s the big club that has issues
I wouldn’t call Feinsand a schill I would argue that he’s coming at it from a different angle. While Sherman isbquestioning whybthe Yanks are fixated on lowering payroll, Feinsand doesn’t care about the why. He’s just giving in to the fact that they are and is looking at their moves based on that new paradigm. It is the same difference of opinion that goes on here.
For example. My point of view is that if the Yankees want to lower payroll and compete they need to trade Granderson, Cano and Hughes for a combination of role players (Murphy) who wouldn’t be hard to retain and fill roles and young controllable assets as well as putting faith in farm hands who aren’t considered elite prospects (Almonte and Adams aand Romine).
On the other hand, some people want to pretend that Hal is going to wake up tomorrow and change his mind about the payroll.
personally id go with signing cano and trading granderson and hughes…
RAB suggests Yankees turn a bunch of the fringe guys into a useful veteran bench guy to clear out spots on the forty man roster. Could not disagree more. Given the payroll situation they need to seebif these guys can be long term, inexpensive otions rather than trading them away.
mick,
I like Thome, but it always seems he plays about 30-50 games tops. His signing would be nice in theory, but expecting him to physically be able to play as many games as Raul did for us last year would be very risky.
The only reason I think Delmon Young could be on the table is he hits lefties and they need a bat. Plus you can bury him in RF once in awhile if you have a lefty on the mound for the Yankees.
Still, getting him over the PR hump from his incident in NYC last season is very big and they may not want to even go there.
I don’t think Diaz is the piece they were looking for – I think he’s the backup plan in case they can’t get the RH OF piece they want.
Ys guy
Cano is going to get eight years. None of those contracts have worked out well for the teams.
Diaz is a no risk move much like Chavez was a couple of years ago when he came in on a minor league deal with Ron Belliard.
i still say figgins gets a minor league invite
chip, every team is going to be overpaying someone but cano will be elite through the ends of the arod, cc and tex contracts and into the post-jeter era.
If the Yankees want veterans to fill out the bench…assuming they want to give Mesa, the Almontes and Adams some Trip A time:
Juan Rivera
Delmon Young
Kelly Johnson
Pronk
are a few other guys who could be had inexpensively
Mick…
I could see that. Pinch runner who can theoretically play multiple spots.
Ys…
True, but then you will get Cano and Tex aging together like Jeter and Alex are now.
.if you notice he’s been breaking stories for them lately too….
———————–
Yes his Matt Diaz news was extremely thrilling
i think it is Hal’s wet dream to get rid of Cano.
aside from the savings, he would LOVE TO WIN with a REDUCED payroll.
don’t think he is enamored with his style of play either IMO.
prolly heard it all his life from his high school/college friends:
“Your Daddy BUYS pennants.”
Like JF has explained, if the Yankees keep the payroll static for next season and don’t go beyond the amount they spend in 2013, they still save a very small amount of money ($2 million) without reducing the payroll at all. I get that the writers are looking at a lot of different variables but that’s a pretty good place for them to start, IMO.
GLove – I made a list of all the ways the Cowboys will mail this game in… I’m just twiddling down the days, waiting for a heartbreak.
YS guy,
The Yankees problem is they have made no effort to sign players to reasonable contracts for next year. That means they will have to fill in one off season about half the 25 man roster. I would think you would agree that is difficult to do.
The A’s also had a number of young guys from their system who were ready to pitch. Do the Yankees?
I might also point out the A’s get to the playoffs once every ten years due to their low payroll.
the Yankees dont have to field a team for what the a’s did, they just have to fill in around the players they already have for what the A’s spent.
Contrary to popular thought imo Hal wants to win this year knowing it will give him the gravitas going forward in transition.
Mac…because the Yankee top guys aren’t ready and because bargain bin guys are getting more money than in years past, that is why they need to deal their fas for players they can control beyond this season.
Mick,
I generally agree with your theory Hal wants to win so he has cushion for any fall, but he doesn’t want to win enough to pay for a better catcher, pay Chavez etc. even for this year. He, like the rest of us, is going on hope for next year that the old players can do it one more time.
I don’t think Hal cares one way or the other. My guess is that he gave Randy and Brian marching orders and while Cash would be content going with the kids, Randy, channelling his inner George doesn’t believe you can play kids in New York.
He, like the rest of us, is going on hope for next year that the old players can do it one more time.
===========================
Then why did he let Ibanez and Chavez go?
Seems like a step in the right direction to me.
The a’s team was built up over multiple seasons, no team who succeeds with a low payroll does so on 1 offseason worth of work
Cash would be content going with the kids,
==========================
all he has to do is bring up a Heathcott near season end and it will create a frenzy just like montero did.
going into 2014 with a few more kids on the rise and we could be singing a different tune praising Hal for his foresight and patience.
Mac,
At somepoint you have to trust yor farm system. There just ar enot enough good free agents. Russ Martin sucks. AJP sucks. Why not see if Romine can play? Worst case scenario is that he sucks for far less money.
Whatever became of Cashman’s cries for autonomy?
Were those just the sounds of a young boy wanting to prove something to his father?
Chip,
I couldn’t agree with you more on the need to get value for the free agents. That does run contra to the plan to try to compete one more time before so many of the older guys are gone.
I saw Sherman saying the Yankees could consider bringing back Pettittie and Kuroda in 2014. No, they can’t pay them with the limited space available.
I also agree the bargain bin shopping Cashman and Hal anticipated didn’t happen due to considerably higher costs. In 2014, I believe, the extra TV money kicks in, doesn’t it? If so, the bargain bin prices will escalate even more at a time when the Yankees will be searching it high and low.
the yankees arent going to be a low payroll team. in fact, if they get under $189M next year, they will likely still be in the top 3 payrolls.
I might also point out the A’s get to the playoffs once every ten years due to their low payroll.
====================================
Times in the playoffs since 2000:
Yankees 12
Red Sox 6
Angels 6
OAKLAND 6
TWINS 6
Mac,
That is correct, the fa market is weaker next year and teams will have more money to throw around. So why not deal Hughes, Cano and Granderson to fill multiple needs and build depth? Even if you don’t get tons of young studs for them what you do get will certainly be more helpful than a draft pick.
YS Guy,
Do you see the point we are making? Are you confident the Yankees will be competitive in 2014?
If you see a way they can do so, I truly would love to hear it because I don’t. Nor do I rule out the possibilty I could be wrong.
apple ceo tim cook has decided to discontinue innovation because it costs too much.
because apple has over a hundred billion in cash tim figures some of that has his name on it.
he will however continue to look for bargains .
he is pouring over the worst tech products of the year to see if there are any deals there.
it seems tim sat next to hal steinbrenner at a holiday dinner and was shocked that hal was taking in ten times this year in personal income what tim was receiving.
hal let him in on his secret plan.
tim was worried that his customers would be concerned if he tried that.
hal reassured him that they would be, but not before tim could fill his pockets.
customers are really just fans after all.
“before they catch on, it will be too late”, said hal with a knowing smile.
Chip,
I would have preferred to try Adams at third and use the Youkilis money elsewhere. Likewise, Mustelier should be given a RH DH shot. Younger guys might get better. I prefer that than hoping the older guys don’t get worse.
If Romine can hit .230 and play competent defense, I will be happy. Again, of the players on the roster, I prefer he be tried rather than the players who likely are at their peak.
randy,
sounds like you were at that dinner.
Randy, very good.
everyone here seems to be drinking out of the prospect fountain. name the last time the yankees successfully brought up 3-4 prospects who contributed in a big way. 1996. do we really have confidence that a bunch of A and AA ball players will contribute that way by 2014? The last time we had such confidence, Banaloulos, Betances, Warren, etc … didn’t work out.
austinmac December 27th, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Mick,
I generally agree with your theory Hal wants to win so he has cushion for any fall, but he doesn’t want to win enough to pay for a better catcher,
================================
If Romine can hit .230 and play competent defense, I will be happy. Again, of the players on the roster, I prefer he be tried rather than the players who likely are at their peak.
===============================================
Mac, aren’t you contradicting yourself?
everyone here seems to be drinking out of the prospect fountain. name the last time the yankees successfully brought up 3-4 prospects who contributed in a big way. 1996.
========================
when was the last time we were on austerity?
do you see the point im making? how many important positions will the yankees actually have to fill out next season. even with a $25M aav for cano i think they can field a competetive team.
how many key positions will they actually have to fill with the rest?
they would already have a c, 1b, 2b, ss, rf, cf, dh, an ace and a closer.
so they need two starters, a 3b, and a LF. with $40M.
chicken little,
They won’t let us drink out of any other fountain as they cost money.
We are at hope and prayer. Realists know if more than one of the class A guys become productive major leaguers, we got lucky.
Mick,
There is nothing wrong with serving food at a dinner.
heathcott and williams both have big opportunities ahead of them. if they make the jump this season, anything is possible in 2014.
they would already have a c, 1b, 2b, ss, rf, cf, dh, an ace and a closer.
–
Generous to suggest they already have a catcher, RF, CF, DH, & SS who are competitive for 2014.
so your problem isnt just the payroll #, its that you think ichiro, gardner, arod and jeter all pretty much suck.
YS,
So you are assuming Romine is a capable starter, Cano is signed, Jeter and AROD are healthy and productive left side of the infield players at 39, Ichiro will be productive at 40, Hughes will be resigned, Robertson will be a successful closer despite never having done it and someone, don’t know who, will be the DH?
Optimistic, don’t you think?
mac
you are def from the old school that wants to buy it at any cost and i understand why.
i am from the same generation but for some reason
maybe it’s the season
seem to be able to cope with this
after all ,esp with a sh!tty FA class, and overpriced at that
why not see where this leads us.
surely you have complained in the past when we didn’t win it all.
that is a curse, you know…
maybe this new path will ease your pain.
There is nothing wrong with serving food at a dinner.
=================================
sometimes the food isn’t worth the price…
YS guy,
I believe all players, even ones on the Yankees, age. You rely on AROD, who now has two surgically repaired hips and a surgically repaired knee being productive in two years?
And on and on. Assume what you will. History is filled with those that thought this time will be different.
thats the beauty of young players. romine doesnt have a high bar to jump to be as good as martin. robertson might or might not be a closer, same for joba. finding out is the cool thing.
maybe mac should mellow out with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JHZGWDFL24
so your problem isnt just the payroll #, its that you think ichiro, gardner, arod and jeter all pretty much suck.
–
No, its being a realist. The Yankees payroll problem is a problem precisely because they have a ton of sunk costs which may not be helpful, and thus totally sunk, & that they don’t have that many cheap, reliable options to fill in other pieces.
Its entirely possible that they will be going in to 2014 without any idea if Nova/Pineda/Phelps will be any good or not. It may be Romine’s first full season. Ichiro, Jeter, A-rod will all be old, 2 of them potentially dead & 1 who we are counting on to simply be re-vitalized by Yankee mystic.
2 of them potentially dead & 1 who we are counting on to simply be re-vitalized by Yankee mystic.
=================
But we will still root for them til they get better and they will, cause they are the NY Yankees.
Mick,
I never complain when they don’t win. Disappointed, yes, but I understand the difficulty of it.
What I want is a team that makes the regular season for for me as a fan.
I am not sure I see a new plan. I see a change of direction but not a plan. A plan would seem to involve moving Swisher last year, and the free agents they don’t expect to sign this year.
A direction of youth is long overdue. Of course, we had been told the minor leaguers would fill the gaps. Injuries and poor performance are often an unpleasant reality.
YS,
Joba will be a free agent.
Mick,
I listened and it did. You old dang hippy.
thats great, bring on the next guy…
. I see a change of direction but not a plan. A plan would seem to involve moving Swisher last year, and the free agents they don’t expect to sign this year.
========================================
what was out there?
who would want swish for a rental and give anything in return?
mac-play this in the background, it will seep into your brain cells.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paEQc668kY4
randy is the forest gump of lohud.
what did they serve at that dinner?
deron williams costs another coach his job…
http://www.nba.com/2012/news/1.....index.html
hope not the zen master.
phil doesn’t take that call…
mac….there are So Many Roads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sFyRQPraJ8
To say the Yankees have a “payroll problem” is ridiculous. What they have is a “New #1 Priority”, and that is to MAXIMIZE PROFIT. NOT being able to “make payroll”, or in layman’s terms, “pay the rent”, is a problem. Hal, Aka Little Lord Fauntleroy, does Not have a payroll problem.
Mick,
I wanted Pierzynski since he was a one year guy. But, I don’t want to see Stewart catch 80+ games. Cervelli needs to be a better catcher. So, let’s try Romine. He might be better than them. He will not be, IMO, as valuable as AJ.
something tasty from tenn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7oNS-bDZqc
everyone here seems to be drinking out of the prospect fountain. name the last time the yankees successfully brought up 3-4 prospects who contributed in a big way. 1996.
———————————————-
I think ppl are going to be disappointed if this whole youth movement thing doesn’t work out. Bringing up a number of guys and hoping they all click is a recipe for disaster.
He will not be, IMO, as valuable as AJ.
=====================
as mick jagger once said:
ya cant always get what you want….
anyone care to make an early 2013 WS prediction?
I think ppl are going to be disappointed if this whole youth movement thing doesn’t work out.
===========================
are we officially in a youth movement?
how was lincoln mac?
i bet Hal could get Matsui on the cheap…
Stewart was traded for due to his defense, which waned as the season progressed. Yanks need depth at catcher till they see what Romine can do in 2013, meaning they gotta hang onto Stewart.
– YANKEE CATCHER DEPTH CHART -
(1) ROMINE – Trial by fire.
(2) CERVELLI – Will have to get used to sleeping on something other than the backseat of his Buick
(3) STEWART – Break glass in case of fire.
Mac is busy listening to the Dead…
mick December 27th, 2012 at 3:23 pm
I think ppl are going to be disappointed if this whole youth movement thing doesn’t work out.
===========================
are we officially in a youth movement?
———————————————–
That’s what it looks like they are aiming for in 14/15
That’s what it looks like they are aiming for in 14/15
================================
makes sense to me…
Mick,
I didn’t get to Lincoln due to family matters–speaking of you can’t always get what you want.
Mac
He dies at the end…oops. sorry.
at the end of the BOOK version of Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter, he rises again!
Should be a caption under that Diaz picture above reading, “Will work for food”.
diaz must have thought what an overpay, i’m all in…
Hassey,
I have new-found optimism.
Big Mac – That was a great book – anyone who likes to read about the Civil War era, the Civil War itself or vampire horror stories (as opposed to Twilight) would really dig the book
row jimmy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF7VPtQ7kDQ
better version of jimmy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldPVSLvN2_o
anyone care to make an early 2013 WS prediction?
———-
The polyanna’s will predict the Yankees to win it all and if they are wrong they will just make up excuses. Rain, umps, pine tar, blah, blah, zzzzzzzzz…
And on top of it all, they will call others that are disappointed in how the team REALLY lost spoiled brats. We should all just be happy that there is a team in NY to cheer for. YAWN…
Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
Hassey,
Thanks for the recommendation. I just read a book about the Mexican War by one of the Saara’s that was very good and sure educated me on a subject about which I knew little.
“anyone care to make an early 2013 WS prediction?”
=======================
ill go with anaheim and washington
Sahaara
the players really f’ed up (on their end) agreeing to the LT and RS changes.
The Diaz signing reminds me of the Swisher trade w/o the bag of old baseballs. I wondered then ho wthe Yanks were going to use Swisher at 1B. It didn’t make sense. Then it did when Yanks brought in Tex & Swish was going to play backup in the OF & 1B. But then Swish started hitting. Hopefully, Diaz will start hitting too. I wonder who the “Tex” part of the equation is? Hopefully there is one!
DONNYBROOK December 27th, 2012 at 3:14 pm
To say the Yankees have a “payroll problem” is ridiculous. What they have is a “New #1 Priority”, and that is to MAXIMIZE PROFIT. NOT being able to “make payroll”, or in layman’s terms, “pay the rent”, is a problem. Hal, Aka Little Lord Fauntleroy, does Not have a payroll problem.
Well stated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“anyone care to make an early 2013 WS prediction?”
=======================
Yankees & Washington (Uh what Unknown said! LOL!)
and Ichiro is the Ichiro we saw for the last 2 months and not the Ichiro Seattle saw for the last 1.5 years. And Gardner can stay healthy. And Romine can play/hit a little, which is a big ?. And who is the dh? Nunez? I realize it’s only December, but the way we are doing virtually nothing on these fronts is not promising.
____
You can say this about any team…..
People get hurt, every team has injury risks…..
And NO team has 9 all stars starting.
obscure old song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amLungGziP0
@JonHeymanCBS: Justin Upton back in play for possible trade, but #dbacks owner may need convincing to deal him. http://t.co/5UtI4F7Z
they should have just signed Hairston to a two year deal and not bother with Diaz
Yankees don’t sign Diaz he’s prob not in the majors this year
RayVT December 27th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
“anyone care to make an early 2013 WS prediction?”
=======================
Yankees & Washington (Uh what Unknown said! LOL!)
———————————–
SF & LAA