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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


David Wells and the Hall of Fame

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 02, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

This month, USA Today is publishing small bios on some of the top Hall of Fame candidates. Because I work for the same company that owns USA Today, I have access to those bios. Although not many of them have significant connections to the Yankees, a few do, so I figured we’d take a look at them as they become available.

Name: David Wells
Position: Left-handed pitcher
Career: 1987-2007; Blue Jays, Yankees, Padres, Tigers, Red Sox, Dodgers, Reds, Orioles, White Sox.
Year on ballot: First

Why he should be inducted: The portly left-handed pitcher played for nine different teams over 21 seasons and reached the postseason 11 times. At 6-foot-3, 250 pounds, he was a durable starting pitcher with excellent control. Although he struck out only 5.8 batters per nine innings, he allowed just 1.9 walks per nine over his career. Wells was at his best at Yankee Stadium. He went 45-20 with a 3.70 ERA in home games in the Bronx, including a perfect game with the Yankees on May 17, 1998. He retired with 239 wins, 57th all-time, and posted a .604 winning percentage.

Wells has comparable regular season statistics to Curt Schilling, who is also on the ballot for the first time and undoubtedly will pick up more votes. Wells wasn’t the power pitcher Schilling was and didn’t have the same postseason success, although Wells was hardly a postseason slouch, going 10-5 with a 3.17 ERA and winning two World Series title. A look at their numbers:

Wins — Wells 239; Schilling 216
ERA — Wells 4.13; Schilling 3.46
WHIP — Wells 1.266; Schilling 1.137
Innings — Wells 3,439; Schilling 3,261
Strikeouts — Wells 2,201; Schilling 3,116

Why he shouldn’t be inducted: Wells never won a Cy Young award and was named to just three All-Star Games. He won 20 games just once and his ERA was simply too high for the Hall.

Numbers don’t lie: Wells is the only pitcher in major league history with at least 200 wins, a .600 winning percentage (.604) and an ERA of over 4.00.

Verdict: Even the outspoken Wells would likely agree he will not get in this year, and it’s a long shot that he’ll ever get in.

Content from USA Today; Associated Press photo

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289 Responses to “David Wells and the Hall of Fame”

  1. AAA January 2nd, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    Wells has comparable regular season statistics to Curt Schilling

    =================================

    Um, no he doesn’t.

  2. DONNYBROOK January 2nd, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    NO on Wells, NO on Schilling. The HOF is for GREAT players, Not Good ones.

  3. Rich in NJ January 2nd, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    RadioKev January 2nd, 2013 at 12:04 pm
    Jerkface January 2nd, 2013 at 11:55 am
    Money doesn’t guarantee you a postseason berth in any given season, but evidence is strong that it guarantees you near unlimited contention as long as you’re willing to spend.
    ———

    Where’s the evidence?
    _

    http://baseballanalysts.com/ar.....payrol.php

    The blue trendline indicates the positive correlation of team payroll and wins. The correlation coefficient works out to 0.64. The coefficient of determination (or R-squared) is 0.41, which means payroll explains 41 percent of a team’s win total. A large portion of the balance is determined by the impact of “cost-controlled” players (i.e., minimum or close to minimum in years one through three and roughly 40-60-80 percent of free agent market values in years four through six, respectively) as Dave Studeman, who improved the correlation coefficient to 0.77 and the R-squared to nearly 0.60 for the 2006 season, pointed out in an intelligent piece in The Hardball Times a couple of years ago.

  4. AAA January 2nd, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Much better comp for Wells would be Pettitte.

  5. The Return of Stoneburner January 2nd, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Mo was once almost traded for Wells – - – -

    Gosh – it feels so long ago the Cleveland ALCS game when some fans were yelling bad about Wells’s mother while he was warming up – 1998 is now 13 years ago – - – -

  6. Jerkface January 2nd, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Thanks, Rich.

    The important thing about that article is the idea of the cost of marginal wins. It is cheaper for a team to move from 70 to 80 wins than it is for a team to go from 80 to 90. Seeing as how each marginal win is more important any of the previous wins (as it determines if you make the playoffs or not), it is important for teams to bear that extra cost. The Yankees have been able to do that for a long time

  7. DONNYBROOK January 2nd, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Pettitte is an admitted PED user. NOPE without even looking at his stats.

  8. The Return of Stoneburner January 2nd, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    errr ooops 15 years – now i really feel old – - -

  9. ant928 January 2nd, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    He also had a perfect game…Curt didn’t…

  10. Against All Odds January 2nd, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    The Yankees were a better team than the Tigers

    —————————————

    No they weren’t

  11. Hassey January 2nd, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    Cooperstown HoF doesn’t matter, he is a first ballot guy in David Cone’s Animal House HoF

  12. The Return of Stoneburner January 2nd, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Yeah – that Willie Mays milestone for ARod really needs to happen in 2013 – or else that is going to really impact 2014 – - – -but i am not sure ARod gets those 13 in 2013 – - – -

  13. The Return of Stoneburner January 2nd, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    ant928 January 2nd, 2013 at 12:19 pm
    He also had a perfect game…Curt didn’t…

    ****

    Not just a perfect game – but he did it hung over – - – -

  14. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    AAO,

    I agree with you.T the better team won the Series. Now, they have added Hunter and gotten Martinez back. We have gone the other way.

    With respect to Wells, no, absolutely not. He was a good pitcher for an extended period. The Hall of Fame should require the inductee to have been one of the elite during his time.

  15. Jerkface January 2nd, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    Yeah – that Willie Mays milestone for ARod really needs to happen in 2013 – or else that is going to really impact 2014 – – – -but i am not sure ARod gets those 13 in 2013 – – – -

    Need to hope he comes back from the surgery like in 09 and just powers through the last 3 months of season. 6 HRs in sept & aug each, then 3 for good measure in July.

  16. The Return of Stoneburner January 2nd, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    Man those Jays had some good pitching – - – -

  17. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    (very long) repost:

    “When is the time appropriate to stop waiting and start seeing..?”

    If you are panic prone, there is never an appropriate time. (statment of fact, not saying you personally are.) It’s very easy to look at the bottom line and if it isn’t what you want it to be, point many fingers. But if you realize that life is what happens to you when you are busy making other plans, you also realize that many unforseen contingencies in the course of a season add to the bottom line – which is why I pointed out the 2011 Sux and the 2012 Yankees.

    “The Yanks had an opportunity.. many opportunities.. last off season to help them in 2013, 2014, and beyond. They did nothing.”

    (Are you calling “last off season” the one preceding the 2012 season or the 2013 season? Obviously if you mean this year, the off season isn’t over.)

    If you’re talking about the one preceding 2012, best I can say is that in your opinion, they did nothing. Without getting into a long and protracted discussion I will say that they have tended to operate more as an organization that tries to satisfy the “immediate need fan” – and I’d say you are definitely one of those, despite your talking about 2013, 2014 and beyond. If this is about Montero (not sure if it is because I don’t remember your take) then I’d say they concentrated on pitching.

    I guess the point is that your thinking that they’ve done nothing doesn’t necessarily make it fact. I’d say that if Hughes and Nova had turned in flawless seasons and Pineda hadn’t gone down, you might be thinking they did exactly what they had to do since all are young enough players. Maybe you wouldn’t, who knows. It’s not a secret that they concentrate on pitching.

    Maybe their “plan” is to bring some of the young talent up and mix it with the current talent rather than to go out and buy players at every position. That’s a plan that I personally would endorse. But I’m not one to lament winning the AL East and not winning the entire postseason. It’s very hard to integrate youth and win the world series the same season, and winning the world series is something that many Yankee fans see as their right.

    We come from very different places with a lot of this stuff. I know you realize that. Waiting and watching things develop is part of the excitement of a season for me. Not outcome is ever assured. The Yankees have talent. If the talent does its job, the Yankees should be fine. And that is always the wildcard – waiting to see what kinds of seasons the players turn in.

    I deal well with the unknown. Maybe I like living on the edge, who knows.

    :)

    Hope this answer is at least satisfactory, as I know you aren’t always pleased if you feel I have not answered sufficiently – (even when I think I have) – and I do the best I can based on the time constraints I have, which is why I sometimes do not immediately respond to follow-ups. I don’t announce when I have posted the last for a while, I just leave when I have to, which isn’t going to be too long after this post is finished! But in the words of Arno – and to the dismay of some (many?) – I’ll be back!!!

  18. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Milestone payroll markers. Could we have been any dumber?

    These are the same guys we insist have the wherewithall to make shrewd decisons going forward.

    I find the comparisons to the Rays laughable. They develop new effective starting pitchers every year. The Yankees semi-developed Hughes and have two others fighting for the fifth spot. Before then it was Pettitte.

    Give me Friedman and his group, and I would feel a lot better on the team’s ability to compete at low cost. Cashman’s expertise is evidnetly old players he has had some success in getting one more year from. Not exactly a long term solution.

  19. The Return of Stoneburner January 2nd, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    That bonus is a killer – take that – ARod alone is a killer – you have 27.5 AAV for 2014, then his possible 6 million for #660, then 12 million in benefits, and around another 7.5 for the other 15 guys in the minors on minimu, – that is close to 52.5 million before you get to the other 24 guys on the roster – and we know 22.5, 24.4, and 6.5 can definitely be added – and if Jeter opts and wants a new contract – eessssh – - – - -

  20. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Stoneburner,

    Yep.

  21. Jerkface January 2nd, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Give me Friedman and his group, and I would feel a lot better on the team’s ability to compete at low cost. Cashman’s expertise is evidnetly old players he has had some success in getting one more year from. Not exactly a long term solution.

    If you’ve read The Extra 2%, its interesting how the Rays & Yankees are both in a kind of ‘business’ like mind set now with their front offices, but the differences between them. The Rays have a kind of investment portfolio style where they are always trying to maximize their returns on the field less than in their pocketbook.

  22. CoreyMac January 2nd, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    http://www.operationsports.com.....restraint/

    I thought this was a decent article for everyone to read instead of panicking over a quiet offseason with a terrible FA pool.

  23. Against All Odds January 2nd, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 12:25 pm
    AAO,

    I agree with you.T the better team won the Series. Now, they have added Hunter and gotten Martinez back. We have gone the other way.

    ————————–

    Exactly. If the Yankees were the better team how did they get swept. Losing in 6 or 7 ok no problem but they were embarrassed.

  24. Rich in NJ January 2nd, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    “Exactly. If the Yankees were the better team how did they get swept. Losing in 6 or 7 ok no problem but they were embarrassed.”

    For many fans, it’s almost always bad luck when their team loses and some wonderful design by management when their team wins.

  25. DONNYBROOK January 2nd, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    When the hell is A-Rod gonna go under the knife? Seems like a yr ago we heard about the injury. Yea, I know about the rehab, but all that tells you is how badly jacked up the guy currently is. We will Not know how bad off he truly is, until the saw bones gets in there.

  26. DONNYBROOK January 2nd, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    The Tigers looked just as impotent vs SF, as the Yanks did vs them. Jeet going down killed the Yanks. Cano doing a Houdini should be proff positive this guy ain’t no, “face of the franchise”. CASE CLOSED

  27. RayVT January 2nd, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 2nd, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    Cano was spent after the last month of carrying the Yankees into the playoffs. He hit like .650 over his last 30 games & was due a dropoff. I think most of the Yankee position players were exhausted & hurt going into the playoffs.

  28. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    We’re they exhausted due to age? Other teams also had pennant races.

  29. Against All Odds January 2nd, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Rich in NJ January 2nd, 2013 at 12:42 pm
    “Exactly. If the Yankees were the better team how did they get swept. Losing in 6 or 7 ok no problem but they were embarrassed.”

    For many fans, it’s almost always bad luck when their team loses and some wonderful design by management when their team wins.
    ——————————-

    That’s what bothered me the most Rich. The Yankees lose and Cashman comes out and says “Just bad luck that the bats slumped at the same time” and then some of his supporters ate it it. WTF the team had issues all yr

  30. RayVT January 2nd, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    I agree. It is always hard to compare players at the beginning of a season versus the end of the season. The Yanks needed to add a RH bat before Sept 1 last year & they didn’t.

    LHP killed the Yanks in the playoffs. ARod was a shell of himself due to multiple injuries. Jeter somehow defied the odds to play great until he literally broke apart. Martin was better than his season, but still was not much. Tex & Swish (SH) could not do much RH either. Jones was so bad he was left off the roster. Yanks were a dangerous LHB hitting team & slumped at that in the end. Ichiro was almost a lone bright spot.

    Yanks needed a guy like Youk for last postseason.

    I think the Yanks have the pitching in 2013 to contend & if they pickup a couple of RH bats along the way they can win. (1 RHB may be ARod or it might not be.)

  31. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    I agree, Ray, they are a bat or two away, assuming reasonable health, from being a very good team this year. A good bat.

  32. Shame Spencer January 2nd, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    “When is the time appropriate to stop waiting and start seeing..?”

    If you are panic prone, there is never an appropriate time. (statment of fact, not saying you personally are.) It’s very easy to look at the bottom line and if it isn’t what you want it to be, point many fingers. But if you realize that life is what happens to you when you are busy making other plans, you also realize that many unforseen contingencies in the course of a season add to the bottom line – which is why I pointed out the 2011 Sux and the 2012 Yankees.
    ———————-

    Listen.. this is about baseball, not life. I’m not panic prone in life. Life is something I enjoy very much without complaints. When I think about LIFE, I am continually struck by the impossible beauty of it all. Those billions of magnificent accidents lead us to where we find ourselves.. to paper planes and nautilus shells and the crooked smiles of children…

    …But this is baseball. This isn’t about living on the edge. This isn’t about being selfish or awful or demanding. This is simply about being a fan and the ultimate goal of the fan is to win. The Yankees in the 2011 off season made one move that could be considered cost saving, I will give them that (and ignore that they traded a cheap player for another cheap player, which isn’t quite cost savings but, hey, I’ll ride this positivity train with you guys – why not?). One move. Now.. Pineda might end up being the key to success in 2014 and beyond. I hope so. I pray for it. I pray for it instead of praying for meaningful things like world peace and the end of childhood hunger. But that one move was not enough given the new CBA and their goals. I have no problem with a cheap, well run organization. But this team is neither!

    As an organization they need a plan. Yes, stuff happens that takes you off course.. but that’s the point of having a plan. Does anyone watch the Lion King regularly? Because I sing, ‘Be Prepared’ at least once a week at my office.

    If their plan is to bring young talent up to take the reins, I’m all for that too.. but then it really doesn’t fit with the actual moves they’ve made (Youk and Ichiro). They don’t have a linear plan that makes sense given their fiscal goals.

    My major issue with half of the discussion on here is that people even compare the Yankees to other teams. The Yankees are the gold standard. Comparing them to the likes of the Padres, Giants, Sox, etc.. it’s just ridiculous. Fans of those clubs would sell their organs to have their teams be more like the Yankees. If the standards stay high the quality of the product stays high. The ‘wait and see’ approach should be applied to the young kids, but not the FO. The whole purpose of their jobs is to not wait and see but be proactive and make decisions for the murky future. That’s their JOB! It’s not my job, but look at how much time I dedicate to it!! If the Yankees increase their payroll, we should be on it… :D

  33. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Shame,

    My hero as always. Too bad you can’t sing for us.

  34. blake January 2nd, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Boomer and Schilling aren’t really comps at all….both were big game pitchers but Schilling was a lot better in general.

    Schilling is a HOFEr to me…..he gets dinged on some counting numbers but his best was an absolute dominator…..

  35. Shame Spencer January 2nd, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Shame,

    My hero as always. Too bad you can’t sing for us.

    ————————-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ6cw_MuTDE

    Be prepared for the murkiest scam
    Meticulous planning
    Tenacity spanning
    Decades of denial
    Is simply why I’ll
    Be king undisputed
    Respected, saluted
    And seen for the wonder I am
    Yes, my teeth and ambitions are bared
    Be prepared!

  36. Jerkface January 2nd, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    Schilling has like a 12 year peak where he threw 2667.2 innings of 3.2 ERA ball . Most of that was in the steroid era. All time leader in k/bb for non deadball era guys.

    I hate schilling, but he has a good hall of fame case. Much better than Jack Morris. and he isn’t comparable to Wells.

  37. blake January 2nd, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    I can’t stand Schill either but he was a monster for a number of years…..

  38. blake January 2nd, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    austinmac says:
    January 2, 2013 at 1:19 pm
    I agree, Ray, they are a bat or two away, assuming reasonable health, from being a very good team this year. A good bat.

    As I’ve said….for 2013 I think Morse could make a real difference

  39. 86w183 January 2nd, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    Schilling had a handful of truly great seasons, but most of his 20-year career was pretty ordinary. He certainly would get the nod over Wells, but I would take Pettitte or Mussina’s overall career over his.

    Even in his most “dominant seasons his ERA was in the 2.98 – 3.26 range. That’s good, but hardly overwhelming.

    Does the “integrity” of bilking the taxpayers of Rhode Island for $ 60 M factor in? It should.

    I also don’t buy his righteous indignation toward selected PED users when he had his best four year run at ages 34-37…. hmmmmm

  40. Rich in NJ January 2nd, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    I loathe Schilling, but back in the day, his posts on NYYFans were sort of self-righteously amusing, and occasionally insightful..

  41. Shame Spencer January 2nd, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    You guys should check out this article on sports journalism: http://blogs.edmontonjournal.c.....rk-eklund/

    This is about the NHL lockout and how a random blogger broke major news lol. Pretty amazing.

  42. RayVT January 2nd, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    Shame Spencer January 2nd, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    I agree, but I’m not sure that the Yanks aren’t truly prepared yet. I do not have enough information at this time because of the following.

    1.) It is not April 1 yet & I don’t know the roster. (Or who may be obtained or lost still.)
    2.) I really don’t know the status of the pitchers. (Health, recovery, etc.)
    3.) What will Jeter be like when he gets back? Will Nunez make a step forward as a SS? INF? OF?
    4.) Is Adams or Mustelier ready to play 3B, because Youk can’t all year.
    5.) Which Ichiro is going to show up?
    6.) Is Mo Mo or is Mo Human?
    7.) What moves will Yanks use to shore up a playoff run after AS Break & before Sept 1?

    These are some of my concerns/questions. I think based on track records, the Yanks have a plan & multiple plans at that. They don’t all work out & some can be very very expensive.

    So I ask myself the following question. Do I think the Yanks want to win in 2013? I think the answer is a resounding yes. Secondly, I ask Do I think the Yanks will really try to win in 2013? Again I truly believe so.

    Based on my thoughts, I believe the Yanks will do well in 2013. Based on prior years I think they similarly have a plan on 2014. I just believe a lot of “GREAT PLANS” are very dynamic & not rigid or static.

  43. RayVT January 2nd, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    blake January 2nd, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    I too like Morse. He could be one of many answers.

  44. Northy January 2nd, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    would it be possible to resign Arod beyond 2017 now, but with a lower annual average?

    This is Arod’s contract the next 5 years, where he is owed a total of 114 million dollars.

    Year Age Salary
    2013 37 $28,000,000
    2014 38 $25,000,000
    2015 39 $21,000,000
    2016 40 $20,000,000
    2017 41 $20,000,000

    Say you add one year of 15 bio dollars, and the annual average is: 21,5 million dollars….

    Or even better – do it after 2013 and the AAV is: 20,2 million dollars.

  45. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    Blake,

    Morse works for me.

  46. Jerkface January 2nd, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    would it be possible to resign Arod beyond 2017 now, but with a lower annual average?

    No. You’re tying up millions on a player that won’t play at those ages, and the way extensions work is that it becomes a new contract. You then look at what was paid over the previous contract & then compare to the amount counted for the luxury tax calculations. The new contract is then credited or debited for the difference. The Yankees would get their new AAV, but also eat 18 million dollars in penalty.

    In the end it would not be worth it.

  47. Shame Spencer January 2nd, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    It is better to look ahead and prepare than to look back and regret. -Jackie Joyner-Kersee

    Ray – I’ve been told the plan is a youth movement… but we are still signing older players. I’ve been told there was ‘no way to predict’ we’d need a 3B this year.. despite the overwhelming evidence that told us otherwise. I’ve been told we need to cut costs for 2014.. but have only seen them extend one contract through that year (Ichiro) since finding out about the new CBA.

    I don’t see any clear plan. It doesn’t need to be some crazy great epic plan that will win us a WS every year from now through eternity… a little consistency would be just fine by me.

    The whole point of having a FO is to make plans. They keep losing these players for either nothing or draft picks.. I’d be okay with that if the org showed any signs of being strong in development, but that’s another area that isn’t quite a strength.

    Who was the last player the Yanks sold high on? I can’t count Betemit… Swish fell into our laps.

    This team hasn’t shown an particular aptitude at trading high on players, developing them or extending them. The only thing the Yankees have been consistently able to do right is spend money. I can’t believe there are so many fans that want to deny it’s obvious benefits, but I’m not asking them to do it just to do it. I’m asking them to do it because it’s one of the very few things they do well consistently.

    People often sarcastically quote ‘how well it worked’ in the early-mid 2000s.. but then you hear people telling you to just be happy with a playoff birth, something almost all of those poorly constructed teams still accomplished.

  48. RMS January 2nd, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    One thing the Yankees did was spend big money. Not so any more, so it seems. Now, look for them to be like most other teams.

  49. RayVT January 2nd, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    Shame Spencer January 2nd, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    I understand your frustration as it correlates with mine. That said, just because you sign an elder player (Youk & Ichiro) doesn’t mean you are committed to them. I believe they hope to get some play on these 2 in 2013, but I also believe they plan to work in the younger folks without making it a crash make or break situation. I think if Youk & Ichiro can play 100 to 120 games they will be fresh come playoffs. That leaves say 80 to 120 games that some combination of younger guys can try to make a slot for themselves just from these two.

    I think the Yanks use Mustelier/Adams/Nunez/Joseph at 3B during ST & one of them during the start of the season.

    I think the Yanks use Mesa/Nunez/Almonte in the OF to spell Ichiro/Gardner/Granderson as well.

    I believe Jeter will be doing more RH DH to start 2013 with Nunez at SS getting more AB & experience.

    Romine will get the nod or at least every opportunity to be the guy at C.

    I think Gardner becomes the everyday CF with Grandy moving to LF.

    Hughes/Phelps/Nova will be given every opportunity to be the guy in the SP rotation too. I think Pineda will be up after AS break as a long guy & spot starter. (Warren probably will be 1st guy up & Betances a close 2nd along with Marshall)

    It isn’t like the cubard is bare. The Yanks have a really really good pitching staff going into the season. That can hide a lot of ills & also provide for lots of opportunities to be given to the youngsters.

  50. Northy January 2nd, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    @Jerkface
    Ok – thanks for the explanation.
    I’m a Yankee fan from Aarhus, Denmark, so forgive me ;-)

  51. 86w183 January 2nd, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Actually, Shame I think the plan is fairly clear.

    The Yankees are “treading water” in 2013… keeping the payroll relatively flat and limiting any commitments beyond this year. It’s the “keeping the band together” mentality. For the 2013 Yanks to be a post-season team several players have to be better than they were in 2012.

    2014 will be a season of dramatic transition with potentially $ 100 M in annual salary coming off the books, and only five players under contract for that season.

    It’s not a plan that inspires great confidence about the next two seasons, but it’s a plan.

  52. blake January 2nd, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Lots of interest in #Marlins’ Stanton, but sources all but rule out a deal. One source says chances are “as close to zero as they can be.”

  53. RayVT January 2nd, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    What I’m trying to say is the Yanks have a lot of options. Some are not of their own chosing like ARod & his health, Mo & Jeter recovering, overall team health. Some are their choices like Romine, Ichiro, Adams/Mustelier/Mesa/Diaz, etc.

    The Yanks have layered depth in the Starting Rotation & Bullpen including closer. That goes a long way into fixing what ails you.

    Note, ST could open a lot of avenues for Yankee players to both play for the Yanks & to be traded for needs.

    Just because I don’t know the Yankees plan doesn’t mean they don’t have one or two or three, or more!

  54. Shame Spencer January 2nd, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Ray – Giving players opportunities and having no other options aren’t the same thing, IMO. And if they just spend $12 million dollars on a guy to play 100 games at 3B when they’re already paying another guy $27.5 million to do less is such a poor allocation of resources it’s almost insane. Same goes for Ichiro.

    Look, I’d love to believe you.. but I watched Andruw Jones be useless all of last season. I watched him be useless in ST, watched him be useless against the pitching he was brought in to hit, and watched him be useless down the stretch….. he was still playing in the last week or so of the season and was only kicked off the team when the playoffs began.

    If it were up to me, Adams and Mustellier would have been penciled in at 3B and we would have spent no more than $2 million (in additional money, mind you) on that position.

    I think the Yankees are taking the ‘wait and see’ approach and that is the exact opposite of a plan. That’s fine for us here.. but that’s not what a front office does. That’s like Congress taking a ‘wait and see’ approach with the economy or scientists taking a ‘wait and see’ approach with space or something…..

  55. Shame Spencer January 2nd, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Remember when Maxwell wasn’t useless and Andruw Jones was useless and ‘no one could have predicted’ we might actually make better use of Maxwell…

  56. Shame Spencer January 2nd, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    86 – I think you’re absolutely right but it could be disastrously counter productive to 2014.

    I guess my hope is they let everyone walk and just take all the money and rebuild… but then I look at the FA market next year and that plan doesn’t seem so hot.

    Maybe they can make a couple of major moves.. but they need to be willing to make hard decisions and so far they haven’t done it. They haven’t moved players when they could get a return for them, they haven’t extended players to get better value and they haven’t opened up any holes (outside of the C position, smh) for young kids to fill in 2013. Hey, maybe I’m wrong and they’ll find a way to see if Healthcott or an Almonte can help in the second half.. but they better fast track those young guns if they’re a part of the plan or be willing to trade them now before they can get hurt.

  57. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Shame, I was talking about the wait and see for the fan, not the front office. Because they don’t call you personally and tell you what they’re up to doesn’t mean they don’t have a plan.

    And while the ultimate goal of the fan is to win, not all fans feel the need to either orchestrate what the team should be doing or to have an outline delivered to them. Some of us don’t need to feel warm, fuzzy, and secure before every season begins. You either trust that the organization knows what it’s doing, or you don’t.

    I do. And because they’re not doing things to your liking doesn’t mean they don’t know what they’re doing or they don’t have a plan. The Sux had a plan in 2011 and the world declared them kings. How did that work out? Plenty of $$$$$ were spent on that plan, by the way.

    I think it’s at least a little naive to think that every organization can plan for every single unforseen contingency and overcome it without missing a beat just by snapping their fingers. Even the best struggle a little at times.

    If all the Yankee players remained healthy and all the Yankee players had the kinds of seasons of which they are capable, the Yankees would have won it all. But alas, life intervened.

    I’m happy enough to be able to watch the Yankees, and I’m happy to be able to call myself a fan. I refuse to get frantic or to twist myself into a pretzel about things over which I have no control. It doesn’t make me any less a fan, maybe just a better-adjusted fan.

  58. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    “Just because I don’t know the Yankees plan doesn’t mean they don’t have one or two or three, or more!”

    Bingo!!!

    :)

  59. luis January 2nd, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    Good afternoon everyone,

    Shame…. Very good points….I would have liked to see Adams or Mustelier at third….

    Ray,

    The underlying issue in my view is that we are about to embark in a rebuilding period with a FO that it’s not willing to go the younger route. Maybe because they don’t know how or they simply don’t have the patience to let them learn their craft. Maxwell’s case was very compelling, or Phelps case during last season.

  60. luis January 2nd, 2013 at 2:57 pm

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  61. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    “I think based on track records, the Yanks have a plan & multiple plans at that. They don’t all work out & some can be very very expensive.

    So I ask myself the following question. Do I think the Yanks want to win in 2013? I think the answer is a resounding yes. Secondly, I ask Do I think the Yanks will really try to win in 2013? Again I truly believe so.

    Based on my thoughts, I believe the Yanks will do well in 2013. Based on prior years I think they similarly have a plan on 2014. I just believe a lot of “GREAT PLANS” are very dynamic & not rigid or static.”

    Sometimes the most profound thoughts come wrapped in simple and easy-to-understand packages. This is one of those times. Bravo Ray!

  62. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    “The underlying issue in my view is that we are about to embark in a rebuilding period with a FO that it’s not willing to go the younger route. Maybe because they don’t know how or they simply don’t have the patience to let them learn their craft. Maxwell’s case was very compelling, or Phelps case during last season.”

    Or maybe it’s because of a whining fan base that threatens to turn tail when the Yankees aren’t winning it all. You know, gotta put fannies in those seats!

  63. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    And adios for now, also. Something over which I do have control, my job, beckons.

    :)

  64. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    Trisha,

    I think calling yourself better adjusted than others is insulting and inappropriate.

  65. RayVT January 2nd, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Shame Spencer January 2nd, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    I just posted a response & it was lost as LoHud cleared my sign-in. Grr!! LOL!

    That said I agree with Trisha in that we because don’t know the Yanks plans does not mean they don’t have Plan A thru Plan Z.

    I also think they signed Youk as insurance, not as an answer. He can’t play 3B everyday so the Youngsters will get a shot in ST & during the season. (Adams/Mustelier/Nunez will get a shot @ 3B)

    I believe Jeter will be a primary DH for the 1st part of the year & that will allow the Yanks to evaluate Nunez much better. (I think Nunez will get starts at 3B & DH. Possibly some OF in ST also.)

    I think the Yanks are far too LH in the OF for the Yanks to be done yet & Mesa & Diaz along with others will get a shot.

    I think having Youk will help more come playoffs especially if ARod comes back & is okay.

    I think the Yanks will parlay excess pitching into a catcher if Romine doesn’t come thru or needs more time.

    I trust the Yanks have a plan & many of them. I remember thinking the Yanks should can Thames in 2010 & Jones in 2011 & Ibanez in 2012 & I was wrong on all of them. Because of Jones’ success in 2011 they stayed too long with him in 2012 IMO but they still brought in Ichiro but he wasn’t RH.

  66. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    “I think calling yourself better adjusted than others is insulting and inappropriate.”

    Well since I would never want to do or be that, let me try to think of a less “inflammatory” term that means that I don’t get bent out of shape over losing seasons or a baseball team’s moves (or lack thereof).

    ;)

  67. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    Trisha,

    Ok.

  68. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    And anyway, I said maybe.

    :)

  69. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Ray,

    My log in went away also, but fortunately, as usual, I had no great thoughts which were lost.

    Whether the team is competitve depends on health of many. Jeter’s ankle, Mo’s ankle, Youkilis’ back, AROD’s hip(s) and on. If all goes well, they could be good with the bat we want. The one I am concerned about is Jeter. Being a great player and competitor does not eliminate the possible long term problems of ankle injuries. Adams and Morales are examples. Posey came back great. However, it is uncertain until it is not.

  70. austinmac January 2nd, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Trisha,

    We have read many of each others posts. Maybe we should both leave the adjusted argument off the table. :)

  71. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    Actually, I’d put it out there in my own behalf any day of the week. What you choose to do is your own personal decision, and of course I would respect it and FULLY understand it.

    :D

  72. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 2nd, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    austin, you get the last word on this one if you want it, lucky guy! I’m really booking now.

    :)

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