Astros/Rangers to open 2013 season; Yankees opener televised on ESPN
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 03, 2013 
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Major League Baseball just announced its plans to have the Astros and Rangers open the regular season with a game on March 31, one day before the bulk of baseball gets started. The Yankees will open on April 1, and that game will be on ESPN. Here’s the announcement from the league.
The Houston Astros will mark their official entrance into the American League by facing their in-state and new AL West Division rivals, the Texas Rangers, before a national television audience to open the 2013 Major League Baseball season. On Sunday night, March 31st, ESPN will present an exclusive national telecast of the Astros’ historic first-ever game in the American League when they host the Rangers at Minute Maid Park at 8:00 p.m. ET / 7:00 p.m. CT.
The following day, Monday, April 1, ESPN will continue its coverage of Opening Week presented by Budweiser with four Opening Day match-ups across ESPN networks featuring the winners of the past seven World Series (all times ET, subject to local blackouts):
• 1:00pm – Red Sox @ Yankees (ESPN)
• 4:00pm – Giants @ Dodgers (ESPN)
• 7:00pm – Phillies @ Braves (ESPN2)
• 10:00pm – Cardinals @ Diamondbacks (ESPN2)
The Astros-Rangers contest will mark the first time Astros and Rangers will face each other to start a season. With the Astros moving to the American League, each league now has 15 Clubs, and each of Major League Baseball’s six divisions are comprised of five Clubs for the first time. The Sunday, March 31 game between the Astros and Rangers was moved from Thursday, April 4.
The ESPN/ESPN2 Opening Day slate on Monday, April 1 features some of the biggest division rivalries in baseball as well as the winners of the past seven World Series. Overall, 12 games will be played across Major League Baseball that day.
And saying that it is just b/c of 2014 they have not signed any relievers completely misses the point – that is the new philosophy of the Yankees – they are not committing the money to that area as they may have in the past – hence the change – the same as they are not committing Jaret Wright money to a no. 5 starter – or setup money to Rafael Soriano – or apparently the big money to a DH or catcher position – just as they have done with LF in Gardner and possibly going forward with the OF if they keep their top prospects – - – -the day of Steve Karasy – and possibly even guys like a Jason Frasor are over – especially given how volatile relievers are, how cheap they can be if you produce them internally – - – -
See this is what I’m saying. You’re saying the Yankees won’t even spend 1.5 million on a 1 year deal in free agency. Madness, unsupported by any evidence.
The Yankees have been producing relievers internally for 5 seasons, and still signing free agent relievers.
The Yankees are spending nearly 20 million on their bullpen this year. See how much they avoid FA when Mo is not eating 10 mil & Joba is not brought back, same with Aardsma. You can replace Mo with Robertson maybe, but who is replacing Robertson? Who is replacing Joba? Aardsma?
The 2014 team will have Gardner in his third and expensive year of arbitration. He will add, presuming he doesn’t stink it up or get hurt, a significant amount to the payroll. $8-10M perhaps?
“The 2014 team will have Gardner in his third and year of arbitration. He will add, presuming he doesn’t stink it up or get hurt, a significant amount to the payroll. $8-10M perhaps?”
Correct which is why If Heathcott is ready by next year they probably should deal Gardner at some point
So no full schedule yet? They do it in drips and drabs??
Ugh, MLB.
MLB doing the smart thing & dumping Astros minor league affiliate vs Rangers up against Game of Thrones season 3 premiere. No one is going to watch the Stros.
Via ESPN – Onley on to 10 lineups in baseball:
10. New York Yankees
They are still looking for a right-handed hitting outfielder, they probably aren’t going to get much offense out of their catchers, and they really have no idea what they’ll get out of Alex Rodriguez. But they’ve got a tremendous anchor in Robinson Cano, and recent history tells us the Yankees will score runs, particularly in the cozy confines of Yankee Stadium, with its short right-field fence. Their year-by-year rankings among all teams in runs in home games:
2012: 6th
2011: 2nd
2010: 2nd
2009: 3rd
2008: 8th (the one year since 1994 in which they didn’t make the playoffs)
2007: 1st
2006: 3rd
2005: 2nd
2004: 5th
2003: 10th
A tangible difference: The most significant change in this lineup is that Nick Swisher is out, having departed as a free agent, and Brett Gardner is back in, after missing most of last season with elbow trouble. While Gardner doesn’t hit for power like Swisher, there is a chance he can replicate and even improve upon Swisher’s overall production. In his past two full seasons, 2010-11, Gardner’s WAR was 10.7. Over Swisher’s past two full seasons, his WAR was 5.0.
Blake,
Are there any players who the Yankees can actually afford to pay in 2014 other than rookies and semi-retirees?
Expecting Heathcott to be ready is very optimistic especially if the Yankees decide he needs more time in Tampa. I would hope his AFL performance would get him moved up, but we shall see. I believe Newman has said he may start at Tampa.
Yankees appeal declining – - – -
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo.....n-the-wane
“i think this whole thing of positiveness is kind of silly. it’s a false sense of honor people seem to use to make them feel good about themselves. it’s dumb.”
Of all the ridiculous, out-of-whack, and distorted things randy has”added” to this forum, this is at the top of the list. Positiveness is not a sense of honor, it’s a way of life, and it comes from the inside, not the outside. All this comment tells me is that you wouldn’t know positivity if it hit you in the face. While that was readily apparent from everything you’ve ever posted, this definitely hit it home.
What’s also readily apparent is that anyone who questions/criticizes Jorge Posada or Joe Torre earns the permanent “rath of randy”. You’d think he gave birth to the them based of the ferocity of his reaction! If you hate Brian Cashman, you might get a bit of a bye.
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tom, if you strongly question whether an NL pitcher can succeed in the AL East, or you question whether a struggling pitcher should remain in the rotation, that means you are not a positive person, according to randy the rulesmaker. As we always say, consider the source…
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Shame, I hardly felt attacked. It’s pretty normal for like-minded people to stick up for each other. It happens all the time here. And the day you come out and criticize the people in your own cohort when they go on the attack and hurl insults at the people who think the opposite of the way they do (sigh), you can talk to me about your problem with personal insults, as you call them. Until then, I can’t take it too seriously.
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rich in nj, I am also truly happy to see you back here. And I mean this sincerely – I never realized how moderate and truly resonable you were until I got to read some of what came after you were gone. Welcome back.
Len Berman ?@LenBermanSports
The #Yankees fan lament. “If only George were alive.” He certainly made things interesting when he bought the Yanks 40 yrs. ago today!
Ken Rosenthal ?@Ken_Rosenthal
Still can’t get consensus on which OFer #DBacks will trade. Some in industry say preference is Kubel. Others still convinced it’s Upton.
MLB Network PR ?@MLBNetworkPR
The 2013 National @BaseballHall of Fame election results will air live January 9 exclusively on @MLBNetwork: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?
Gardner’s WAR is significantly based on defense. He will not replace Swisher’s at the plate. Not remotely.
Stoneburner’s stats do seem to support the long disputed issue of whether actually scoring runs help. The year they finished eighth, they didn’t make it.
The last few years of these home scoring stats must be understood in the context of NYS, a homer park fitting the Yankees former power laden lineup. They should have done better.
Stoneburner, I could give that article more credence if it didn’t come from ESPN, wasn’t written by Wallace Matthews, and didn’t reference the years that the entire country has been in a recession and the prices of tickets at the new Stadium have skyrocketed.
I alway consider the source…
@Buster_ESPN: Arizona very much open again to talking about trading Justin Upton w/other teams, and not surprisingly, their specific demands have changed.
Wake up Cash
@Buster_ESPN: The Diamondbacks have viewed Seattle as a possible landing spot for Upton, but remember, he would have to approve any deal to Mariners.
“Correct which is why If Heathcott is ready by next year they probably should deal Gardner at some point”
At the point at which he seems too good to trade (assuming that happens).
I like Buster – seems like a nice guy on the tele – - – -
Trisha,
Lohud bet attendance is down by at least 100,000 next year?
If the price skyrocketed, while ability & desire to pay those prices waned, that is indeed a drop in appeal
Something is only as appealing as your ability to have it.
“@Buster_ESPN: The Diamondbacks have viewed Seattle as a possible landing spot for Upton, but remember, he would have to approve any deal to Mariners.”
The Yankees should re-acquire Montero in order to trade him again, but this time, in a trade that actually carries far less risk.
Seattle does have that pitching to offer Arizona – - – -boy Hamilton goes to the Angels and if Upton goes to the Mariners – it will make for interesting fodder down here in Dallas to see how Daniels and his gang react – - – -
@Buster_ESPN: Some officials now convinced that it’ll be Upton, rather than Kubel, who will be the outfielder that Arizona moves before start of its camp.
I cannot handle the non stop tweets about Upton. “Upton to be traded!” “JK No he’s not!” “Kubel OR Upton to be traded!” “Sources say its Kubel most likely” “JK UPTON totally gone!”
aghhhh just trade him
I wonder what the D-Backs revised demand involves. Come on Cashman. At least try.
Man – I have really gotten on this Upton bandwagon – I really thought it would be the Rangers – just always saw the Mariners as that team no one wants to play for – except King Felix – maybe Upton will block any potential trade if that happens (though might use that veto power for a better contract) – - – -
Just think about how Upton feels. Make up your mind.
I agree….just trade Upton to the Yankees!
jerkface, sure, as you explain it. But I think the implications in the ESPN article were mean to be a lot deeper and more ominous.
**********
austin, as long as the economy sucks and the prices are sky high, nothing will surprise me. Those are the controls. Talk to me in a decent economy. If attendance drips precariously then, we’ll have something to talk about.
austinmac January 3rd, 2013 at 3:33 pm
The 2014 team will have Gardner in his third and expensive year of arbitration. He will add, presuming he doesn’t stink it up or get hurt, a significant amount to the payroll. $8-10M perhaps?
—————
I am not well versed in payroll and arbitration numbers, but that seems high to me. He has basically missed an entire season to boost his value, and arbitration numbers accumulate. If I am way off, I still expect he would be at or below the low end of that range.
Trisha,
MLB attendance is increasing. I don’t believe it is the economy or else the decline would be more widespread.
I don’t think there will be a precarious drop this year. 2014 could see one depending on what the team looks like.
I actually agree with a point Axisa made today about Stanton, which also applies to Upton. The Yankees will likely be in a better position to make a big trade a year from now, so it may be better if none of these really good young offensive position players are traded now.
If Brett Gardner performs well he will probably line up for 5 – 7 million in arbitration. I don’t see him getting to 8 or 10.
Come on Kevin – remember your time with the Yankees when you did this:
Since Mr. Cashman, one of his closest friends in baseball, hired him last winter, Mr. Towers has primarily worked as a special-assignment scout. He spent most of May helping the Yankees prepare for the draft by watching amateur prospects, including second-round pick Angelo Gumbs and fourth-round pick Mason Williams.
http://online.wsj.com/article/.....22138.html
You want Mason Williams and Angelo Gumbs back (and you also helped with Tyler Austin in that same draft) – - – –
And remember when you took Nova in the rule 5 draft with the Padres – we can include him too – — -
The Return of Stoneburner January 3rd, 2013 at 3:43 pm
Yankees appeal declining – – – -
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-yo…..n-the-wane
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I feel like their appeal was still there during last season, like when Ichiro came over. The behavior of the fans in the postseason followed by the teams behavior after the end of the season somehow seems to have seriously damaged their appeal. Personally, I went from feeling super positive about the team in August to really disgusted with the scene in the playoffs, which left a bad after-taste that I think has affected the feelings that freeagents have for the team.
Paco,
I am no expert on arbitration without doubt, and that could be high. It seems everyone is making far more than I would expect, and admittedly incorporated that thought into my numbers..
“MLB attendance is increasing. I don’t believe it is the economy or else the decline would be more widespread.
I’d be more convinced if all of the stadia had the outrageous price increases as did the Yankees.
“I actually agree with a point Axisa made today about Stanton, which also applies to Upton. The Yankees will likely be in a better position to make a big trade a year from now, so it may be better if none of these really good young offensive position players are traded now.”
Yea if things work out perfect they could have a top 5 system next year….
“I feel like their appeal was still there during last season, like when Ichiro came over.The behavior of the fans in the postseason followed by the teams behavior after the end of the season somehow seems to have seriously damaged their appeal.”
You’re probably always going to have some short-term variability in a trend, so I think you have to look at the longer term. It’s hard to argue that given the aging roster, the failure to add dynamic young players, and the constrictive rhetoric of the owner, the trend since 2009 is anything but negative.
Jerkface January 3rd, 2013 at 4:00 pm
If Brett Gardner performs well he will probably line up for 5 – 7 million in arbitration. I don’t see him getting to 8 or 10.
——————————-
Fits with my intuition that he would get ca. $6.5MM
This is how the Yankees should approach every game:
“There are brave men knocking on our door—let’s go kill them!” – Tyrion Lannister.
The Yankees always pay their debts!!!
Last year’s team, even to the biggest loyalist, was very frustrating. Then, the utter playoff collapse left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth. The off-season has done nothing to add optimism or enthusiasm.
I believe it will have affect on attendance and TV ratings, which were down over 8% last year. For those who believe all is rosy from the fans perspective and it is only a bad economic affect, the TV ratings decline says otherwise.
Jerkface says:
January 3, 2013 at 4:00 pm
If Brett Gardner performs well he will probably line up for 5 – 7 million in arbitration. I don’t see him getting to 8 or 10.
Yea but either way …if Heathcott has a good year and looks like he will be ready Id probably consider trading Gardner for that value and then plugging Slade in at the league min. in 2014
Oh yea definitely, but I don’t see Heathcott playing in the majors next year nor being the starting anything in 2014. If one of them somehow positioned themselves to start in 2014 I’d trade Gardner. I’d trade Gardner now if we could replace him with Upton.
“I’d trade Gardner now if we could replace him with Upton.”
Me too…..Id actually trade whichever of he or Granderson brought the best return or th return that made the most sense…..
Shame, I hardly felt attacked. It’s pretty normal for like-minded people to stick up for each other. It happens all the time here. And the day you come out and criticize the people in your own cohort when they go on the attack and hurl insults at the people who think the opposite of the way they do (sigh), you can talk to me about your problem with personal insults, as you call them. Until then, I can’t take it too seriously.
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Lol, I don’t stick up for anyone either, I only respond to rudeness directed towards myself. We’re all (mostly) adults here, no one needs a personal defender. People can disagree and still be respectful. I’ve never lowered myself to name calling, and neither should you. But I’m not telling you how to post, just asking for more polite discourse. Carry on as you will – so will I
I think Hearhcott “could” be ready by 2014…..if he has a good year in AA then they could challenge him considering Gardner would almost be a FA
List of how Yanks players are doing in winter ball:
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/org.jsp?id=nyy
I would like to note for Mr. Towers that Angelo Gumbs is healthy and hitting .306 this winter – - – -
The Braves would probably love Gardner
Of course this is assuming you don’t have to trade Slade to get Upton
Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2013 at 4:00 pm
I actually agree with a point Axisa made today about Stanton, which also applies to Upton. The Yankees will likely be in a better position to make a big trade a year from now, so it may be better if none of these really good young offensive position players are traded now.
—————-
If they deliver good seasons in the minors it would help a ton.. especially since most will move up a level. That being said, the risk always goes both ways. A couple of years ago we were all packaging Romine….
Trisha,
How do you account for the 8+% TV ratings decline if not fan indifference or dissatisfaction? The economy was better in 2012 than 2011 or 2010 by the way.
Does not necessarily have to be Heathcott – Flores could very well be ready by 2014 – - – -
“Are there any players who the Yankees can actually afford to pay in 2014 other than rookies and semi-retirees”
Depends on if they sign Cano or not really….it be extremely tight if they do
The Return of Stoneburner says:
January 3, 2013 at 4:15 pm
Does not necessarily have to be Heathcott – Flores could very well be ready by 2014 – – – -
Flores isn’t really a CFer….and in the scenario we are discussing Granderson will be gone and Gardner wi have been traded
I’m pissed off about Giro’s lineup for that April 1 game
@eboland11: Swisher said before FA started he talked w wife that they wanted to go “Where we were going to be wanted & where we were going to be loved”
Can you feel the love tonight
While Flores has primarily played LF past season – he does have 33 games in CF this past season – is it ideal and is Heathcott better – of course – but he is at least a possibility – especially if the bat is more ready and patience at the plate than Heathcott – - – -
Swisher would have fit in perfectly in the title sequence for the Drew Carey show
@eboland11: Swisher said before FA started he talked w wife that they wanted to go “Where we were going to be wanted & where we were going to be loved”
In honor of Swisher and his wife – - – -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C21yssFhCsk
If the Yanks could get Upton then id take Gardner and Granderson and shop for the best SS or 3B prospect I could find……
Swisher said before FA started he talked w wife that they wanted to go “Where we were going to be wanted & where we were going to be loved”
==========================
this guy should never have been a yankee……neither should have burnett.
blake January 3rd, 2013 at 4:19 pm
@eboland11: Swisher said before FA started he talked w wife that they wanted to go “Where we were going to be wanted & where we were going to be loved”
Can you feel the love tonight
—————-
At least he didn’t Damon it..
“I’ve always envisioned myself playing for an organization like the Cleveland Indians, this is always where I wanted to be!!”
“For those who believe all is rosy from the fans perspective and it is only a bad economic affect, the TV ratings decline says otherwise.”
Listening to the crabbing on this forum, how could anyone believe that all is rosy from the fans perspective? There are obviously some fans who are disgruntled, putting it mildy.
There is no question in my mind – nor apparently in Wallace Matthew’s, for whatever that’s worth – that ticket prices have impacted attendance greatly. I know the economic woes had hit the northeast much harder than other parts of the country so maybe it’s hard for you to understand the true impact of the economic crisis coupled with out-of-sight ticket prices, out there in Texas. But it’s pretty brutal. Add to that the federal bailout dealt with the stupid-ass banks and companies in NY, and part of the agreement was no more corporate ticket buying, NY took quite a hit.
Do I believe there are fans who have turned away because they’re dissatisfied with the team? Sure. The Sux also stopped having sold-out games. But I don’t think the impact is quite as dire as it appears you think it is. Time will tell.
“Are there any players who the Yankees can actually afford to pay in 2014 other than rookies and semi-retirees”
Depends on if they sign Cano or not really….it be extremely tight if they do
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its not all that horrible. if they sign cano, they should have about $40M left to fill out the roster. but they would already have 1b, 2b, ss, rf cf dh, #1SP, nova and phelps (place where you think they fit) and closer covered.
im not saying that’s easy but its doable.
@eboland11: Swisher didn’t bite when asked about RF fans. “I had a wonderful time when I was in NY. We had an absolute blast. NY was an amazing time.”
totally inappropriate as a slap in the face of the bleacher creatures and all Yankee fans.
this guy was just a clown who couldn’t do it when it counted.
If the Yanks could get Upton then id take Gardner and Granderson and shop for the best SS or 3B prospect I could find……
Substitute Hughes for Gardner and I agree. However, it depends on how much I have to surrender for Upton to begin with.
Hughes is as good as gone after this season, might as well move him now. At least with Gardner you have him controlled through 2014.
“its not all that horrible. if they sign cano, they should have about $40M left to fill out the roster. but they would already have 1b, 2b, ss, rf cf dh, #1SP, nova and phelps (place where you think they fit) and closer covered.”
Consider the arbitration cases…. Cuts it down even more…..it’s doable of course but they’ll have to fill out a ton of the roster with guys making no money
eboland11 profile
eboland11 Swisher didn’t bite when asked about RF fans.
===============
of course not.
he already said his piece in his 1st tweet.
baby…..
doesn’t want to get booed on his triumphant return to the Stadium.
“Substitute Hughes for Gardner and I agree. However, it depends on how much I have to surrender for Upton to begin with.”
Why? They’d have 4 outfielders…trading Hugjes leaves a hole in the rotation. Id trade Hughes if a good deal came along but Id need to know I could get marcum or Lohse or somebody to do a one year deal to replace him
“its not all that horrible. if they sign cano, they should have about $40M left to fill out the roster. but they would already have 1b, 2b, ss, rf cf dh, #1SP, nova and phelps (place where you think they fit) and closer covered.”
*******
there is a potential land mine with ARod’s 660 homer bonus that is worth 6 million that could count for 2014 if ARod does not get the homer bonus this season – before you even leave ARod – he could count towards 33.5 million – then add the 12 million for benefits, etc., and then another 7.5 million for the 15 guys not on the 25 man roster – that is around 53 million before you get to the rest of the roster that already has 6.5, 22.5, and 24.4 committed to Suzuki, Tex, and C.C. – and IF Jeter opts out – you then add 3 million PLUS his new contract to resign him – - – -
The Yankees will have less than 40 million (less than 34 million if you have to worry about A-rod’s milestones, less than 30 million if you want to leave some room for waiver wire/bonuses/trades) if Cano gets 23 per year, to cover 2 rotation spots, of, c, 3b, bench, 6 bullpen spots, and 15 40 man spots.
Blake; If they trade Granderson, and add Upton my count is they’d have three OF (Gardner, Upton, Ichiro).
I’d then turn around to SD and see if SD bites on Hughes + Williams for Headley.
If Jeter opts out he costs 9 million for luxury tax purposes.
OK guys, you finally succeeded in making my eyes water.
What are you trying to tell us?
what did swisher do to piss everyone off? he didnt get it done in the PS and that’s pretty much why he’s gone, but he was good here and seemed nice enough. playing in NY has to be frustrating and you can’t expect too many guys who care about anything more than just the money to make it through a session in NY without some rocky and frustrating times.
he was good, i wish he got it done in the PS and i wish him well moving forward when he’s not facing the yankees.
Acquiring Upton could allow them at least some leverage against cano next winter…..at least they’d have a middle of the order guy left should he leave
“Blake; If they trade Granderson, and add Upton my count is they’d have three OF (Gardner, Upton, Ichiro).”
I said if they got Upton then they should trade one of Granderson/Gardner…..whichever made the most sense as is target a SS or 3B prospect…..or catcher if I had to trade Sanchez to get Upton
I think mason has to be in the deal to get Upton….he’s their #1 prospect by most accounts and Towers helped draft him
“But I’m not telling you how to post, just asking for more polite discourse. Carry on as you will – so will I
”
If “more polite discourse” means no reference to the reality of whining, complaining, self-entitled fans, I’m afraid you can wait ’til the cows come home. I already told you that I don’t intend to write a “Shame disclaimer” every time I make a comment. But talking about polite discourse, I could definitely do with less sexual comment and innuendo, pictures of singers having orgasms (or whatever that was) and the like. I would posit that things like that are hardly polite and have no place whatsoever on this forum.
Using the observed cosmic expansion conjunctively with the general theory of relativity, we can infer from the data that the further back into time one looks, the universe ought to diminish in size accordingly. However, this cannot be extrapolated indefinitely. The universe’s expansion helps us to appreciate the direction in which time flows. This is referred to as the Cosmological arrow of time, and implies that the future is — by definition — the direction towards which the universe increases in size. The expansion of the universe also gives rise to the second law of thermodynamics, which states that the overall entropy (or disorder) in the Universe can only increase with time because the amount of energy available for work deteriorates with time. If the universe was eternal, therefore, the amount of usable energy available for work would have already been exhausted. Hence it follows that at one point the entropy value was at absolute 0 (most ordered state at the moment of creation) and the entropy has been increasing ever since — that is, the universe at one point was fully “wound up” and has been winding down ever since. This has profound theological implications, for it shows that time itself is necessarily finite. If the universe were eternal, the thermal energy in the universe would have been evenly distributed throughout the cosmos, leaving each region of the cosmos at uniform temperature (at very close to absolute 0), rendering no further work possible.
The General Theory of Relativity demonstrates that time is linked, or related, to matter and space, and thus the dimensions of time, space, and matter constitute what we would call a continuum. They must come into being at precisely the same instant. Time itself cannot exist in the absence of matter and space. From this, we can infer that the uncaused first cause must exist outside of the four dimensions of space and time, and possess eternal, personal, and intelligent qualities in order to possess the capabilities of intentionally space, matter — and indeed even time itself — into being.
nobody knows how an upton or stanton would perform in the cauldron of new york.
” Jerkface January 3rd, 2013 at 4:37 pm
The Yankees will have less than 40 million (less than 34 million if you have to worry about A-rod’s milestones, less than 30 million if you want to leave some room for waiver wire/bonuses/trades) if Cano gets 23 per year, to cover 2 rotation spots, of, c, 3b, bench, 6 bullpen spots, and 15 40 man spots.”
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how do arod’s bonuses count against they LT, are they included in his aav?
in any case, that’s what it’s going to be. you can spend the next 3 seasons screaming about it if you want, it won’t change anything. thats a long time to be pissed of, though.
Swisher was a great pickup by Cashman, a steady rock in the regular season, and a good guy. I’m glad he got paid. I wish the Yankees had paid him.
mick January 3rd, 2013 at 4:23 pm
Swisher said before FA started he talked w wife that they wanted to go “Where we were going to be wanted & where we were going to be loved”
==========================
this guy should never have been a yankee…
———————————————–
Produced in the regular season
Took over for Nady when he got injured
Helped the Yankees get to the PS
how do arod’s bonuses count against they LT, are they included in his aav?
–
THey are performance bonuses, they count in the year they earned. Which means if A-rod doesn’t hit performance bonus #1 in 2013, then it will be guaranteed to fall in 2014 and it must then be budgeted for.
My master plan from this AM
blake says:
January 3, 2013 at 8:34 am
-Mason Williams , Gary Sanchez, and Nova for Justin Upton
-Granderson to Philly for cody Ashche and Adam Morgan (LHP)
-Boone Logan and Flores for Michael Morse!
-Sign Marcum to a one year deal and Jurjins to a minor deal contract.
Jeter SS
Ichiro RF
Cano 2B
Tex 1B
Upton LF
Morse DH
Youk 3B
Romine C
Gardner CF
Sabathia
Kuroda
Pettite
Hughes
Marcum
Ok I’m done…..back to reality
trisha are you trying to break up a cult or something?
good luck with that…just accept your persona non grata status and let the children play…
hassey i think you were looking for the ‘boring science’ blog on nerds.com
“THey are performance bonuses, they count in the year they earned. Which means if A-rod doesn’t hit performance bonus #1 in 2013, then it will be guaranteed to fall in 2014 and it must then be budgeted for.”
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thanks for that jf.
you just can’t believe all the ways the arod contract screws the yankees every year. worst contract ever in sports.
i think we all know where ‘team greedy’ would have stood on retaining arod after the opt-out…
blake January 3rd, 2013 at 4:38 pm
Acquiring Upton could allow them at least some leverage against cano next winter…..at least they’d have a middle of the order guy left should he leave
———————————-
but if they have to pay Upton……..will they have enough money to pay Cano?
i think we all know where ‘team greedy’ would have stood on retaining arod after the opt-out…
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A-rod’s contract wouldn’t screw team greedy, we’d just greed our way out of that hole
but if they have to pay Upton……..will they have enough money to pay Cano?
–
Upton only counts for 8 mil against the 2014 (supposedly, no one has emailed me back on traded AAV), so that money doesn’t really affect Cano
Jerkface January 3rd, 2013 at 4:38 pm
If Jeter opts out he costs 9 million for luxury tax purposes.
————
Wait ..would this be on top of whatever new deal he might sign??
“The economy was better in 2012 than 2011 or 2010 by the way.”
By inches? Is that why there was so much fear of and talk about “the fiscal cliff”? Maybe you would truly have to be around these parts to understand it. I don’t know. But what I do know logically is that the ticket prices had an immediate affect on attendance, and that was the year they won the WS. Ticket prices didn’t go down in the following years, to my knowledge.
austin, since I’m not one to push panic buttons or borrow trouble, I’m going to wait to see what happens once the economy turns around. I don’t think it pays to make uninformed conclusions so I’m not going to do it. If you feel you can safely separate the wheat from the chaff, so be it. I know I cannot. I’m mentioning two factors which have had an impact. I cannot safely assess the degree of any of the factors and so I’m not going to try.
I know from reading your comments time and again, your belief of what has or has not happened within the organization is that fan attendance is going to be impacted/further impacted. Time will tell.
As already stated:
Facing a surplus of outfielders following their deal with Cody Ross, the Diamondbacks are once again “very much open” to talking about trading Justin Upton, ESPN.com’s Buster Olney reports (all Twitter links). Their specific demands have changed, Olney notes.
Diamondbacks executives have viewed the Mariners as a possible trade partner for Upton, according to Olney. However, the Mariners are on Upton’s no-trade list, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com reported earlier in the offseason (Twitter link). The Blue Jays are also on the list, which is partially in place to provide Upton with leverage in talks.
Some officials are now convinced the Diamondbacks will trade Upton rather than Jason Kubel, Olney reports.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#BHdx2wqlS2kG8grw.99
Good afternoon everyone,
FTR…. Even though I am a big fan of Arod, I would have never give another contract to him after he opted out…. That contract is the worst contract in history
Arods contract only hampers them because they let it…..and we all tend to forget how good Arod was when he signed it …..check out his 2007 numbers…..there were no PED admissions and he had never been hurt.
He was gonna break all the records and save the game from Barry Bonds in pinstripes….. That was the narrative in the winter of 2007 when the inexperienced Steinbrener kids did what they did.
It didnt sound near as crazy then as it does now…..the issue now is that they are holding their mistake against their team…..
———————————-
“but if they have to pay Upton……..will they have enough money to pay Cano?”
Yea….but my point was that with Upton they’d be in a better position to actually let Cano go if he wants 200+ million
trisha – true pinstriped blue January 3rd, 2013 at 4:41 pm
“But I’m not telling you how to post, just asking for more polite discourse. Carry on as you will – so will I
”
If “more polite discourse” means no reference to the reality of whining, complaining, self-entitled fans, I’m afraid you can wait ’til the cows come home. I already told you that I don’t intend to write a “Shame disclaimer” every time I make a comment. But talking about polite discourse, I could definitely do with less sexual comment and innuendo, pictures of singers having orgasms (or whatever that was) and the like. I would posit that things like that are hardly polite and have no place whatsoever on this forum.
————-
There’s nothing impolite about sex. It was from a music video and I didn’t make the title.. some other trollop must of saved it using the word ‘orgasm’. Oh the youth…. pretty sure it was tom the mentioned the idea of me wet on top of a Corvette
No one asked for a disclaimer, all that was asked for a more respectful discourse when you’re very much responding directly to a post. Your response was for me to shove it. And it made me laugh, so please continue
Reminded me of the holidays with my mom…
blake January 3rd, 2013 at 4:54 pm
———————————-
“but if they have to pay Upton……..will they have enough money to pay Cano?”
Yea….but my point was that with Upton they’d be in a better position to actually let Cano go if he wants 200+ million
———————–
and my point is that they will have to let him go……..
upton hit 17 hr 67 rbi in 150 games last year. i know that’s about what arod did, but is that really ‘middle of the order’ production?
“trisha are you trying to break up a cult or something?
good luck with that…just accept your persona non grata status and let the children play…”
mick – absolutely not. They have a right to think the way they do, just as I have the right to think the way I do. What I am not going to allow, however, is the cult to dictate the way I think. You’ve been around here long enough to know that I don’t need the safety of numbers to hold my ground.
I guess I must have a high opinion of myself, because a “persona non grata” status didn’t enter into my thinking! Or I guess I don’t need the cult’s approbation to validate my standing!
Shame Spencer January 3rd, 2013 at 4:51 pm
Jerkface January 3rd, 2013 at 4:38 pm
If Jeter opts out he costs 9 million for luxury tax purposes.
————
Wait ..would this be on top of whatever new deal he might sign??
JF – I need help on this stat so I can leave my office at 5pm!!
———————–
“and my point is that they will have to let him go……..”
Not because of Upton and his 8 million AAV
arod’s contract sounded crazy to me at the time and it’s only gotten worse with time.
Lost’s reports on Levine stalking Stanton are pretty funny… I could totally see Randy offering: Hughes, Granderson, Nova/Phelps, Williams, Sanchez, Nunez/Adams and Robertson for Stanton.
Shame Spencer January 3rd, 2013 at 4:58 pm
Lost’s reports on Levine stalking Stanton are pretty funny… I could totally see Randy offering: Hughes, Granderson, Nova/Phelps, Williams, Sanchez, Nunez/Adams and Robertson for Stanton.
********
You mean – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrTsuvykUZk
Wait ..would this be on top of whatever new deal he might sign??
–
Yes. Because the way his contract is structured they saved 6 million in luxury tax hit for the 3 years of his deal, so if he opts out of his player option they have to count the 6+3 opt out for 2014.
So if he signs a new deal its 9+AAV of new deal. Someone on RAB suggested it would be split up along the length of his deal, but it doesn’t work that way. Thats only if they extend him.
Ys Guy says:
January 3, 2013 at 4:56 pm
upton hit 17 hr 67 rbi in 150 games last year. i know that’s about what arod did, but is that really ‘middle of the order’ production?
That’s not him….he was hurt last year and upset with all the trade talk…..check out his 2011 numbers…and he was closer to himself in the 2nd half last year.
You would be trading for potential…. But he’s as talented as anybody and still only 25….he’s basically the same age as David Adams
The Return of Stoneburner January 3rd, 2013 at 4:59 pm
Shame Spencer January 3rd, 2013 at 4:58 pm
Lost’s reports on Levine stalking Stanton are pretty funny… I could totally see Randy offering: Hughes, Granderson, Nova/Phelps, Williams, Sanchez, Nunez/Adams and Robertson for Stanton.
********
You mean – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrTsuvykUZk
—————
Yep. And I’m sure you’d agree we can replace Robertson in house, right Stone?
Lost .. ?@LostNYY
I said that RL is stalking him. That does NOT mean they are signing him.
46m Lost .. ?@LostNYY
#Yankees Randy Levine is borderline stalking Stanton.
- – - – -
This guy, this guy, this guy – - – -
Ys Guy says:
January 3, 2013 at 4:57 pm
arod’s contract sounded crazy to me at the time and it’s only gotten worse with time.
It was crazy because of his age….but when you forget about everything we know that has happened since and only consider what they knew when they signed him….it’s less so and more understandable
“Reminded me of the holidays with my mom…”
Yes, you’ve noted that you come from a dysfunctional family. I told you to shove it when I got tired of your “poor me” act. Anyway, I don’t need to be smothered with this again so why don’t we move on.
The Return of Stoneburner January 3rd, 2013 at 4:59 pm
Shame Spencer January 3rd, 2013 at 4:58 pm
Lost’s reports on Levine stalking Stanton are pretty funny… I could totally see Randy offering: Hughes, Granderson, Nova/Phelps, Williams, Sanchez, Nunez/Adams and Robertson for Stanton.
********
You mean – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrTsuvykUZk
—————
Yep. And I’m sure you’d agree we can replace Robertson in house, right Stone?
*****
Of course – I really just wanted to post the clip from the professional though – - – -
blake January 3rd, 2013 at 4:57 pm
———————–
“and my point is that they will have to let him go……..”
Not because of Upton and his 8 million AAV
—————————–
Upton is slated to make over $14M in 2014………..does his AAV stay the same for the length of the contract though he is traded?
Levine probably is stalking Stanton….or at least the Marlins on acquiring him….doesn’t mean they can
Jerkface January 3rd, 2013 at 5:00 pm
Wait ..would this be on top of whatever new deal he might sign??
–
Yes. Because the way his contract is structured they saved 6 million in luxury tax hit for the 3 years of his deal, so if he opts out of his player option they have to count the 6+3 opt out for 2014.
So if he signs a new deal its 9+AAV of new deal. Someone on RAB suggested it would be split up along the length of his deal, but it doesn’t work that way. Thats only if they extend him.
——————-
Wow, that sucks.. I don’t want to be in a position to have to root against Jeter, Hughes and Cano just so we can make sure we can re-up these guys. If, and it’s a big ‘if’, but if Jeter delivers like he did last year he might make the Yankees eat it.
If Cash told me to shop around this time I’d just hold up a picture of Eduardo Nunez.
—————————–
Upton is slated to make over $14M in 2014………..does his AAV stay the same for the length of the contract though he is traded?
I believe so yes….
I still wonder if the Yankees considered trying to void the contract on an implicit misrepresentation of non-steroid use. If nothing else and there is much more, it kills the value of the milestones. Now, no one really cares about them.
The CBA may prevent such a thing, or it may be the team just didn’t want to go down an uncertain path with someone they owed so much money and destroy any possible relationship.
The important things with Upton are:
1. His contract, which helps the Yankees make room for other players
2. The baseline expected performance which is about what Nick Swisher would bring
3. The ceiling of his performance, which is elite
4. He is entering his prime
5. He plays the game in a yankee way, power & patience
If the Yankees get unlucky in an upton trade, they may end up with merely a more versatile Nick Swisher.
If they get even a little bit lucky, they get a potential MVP
mick, I’m willing to let 2013 play out before I declare it a lost season. I know that kind of thinking seems to be heretical around here.
As I probably argued on here for an hour+ before, there is no way the Yankees can void his contract because of PEDs.
JF,
Yes ….all that….
trisha – true pinstriped blue January 3rd, 2013 at 5:01 pm
“Reminded me of the holidays with my mom…”
Yes, you’ve noted that you come from a dysfunctional family. I told you to shove it when I got tired of your “poor me” act. Anyway, I don’t need to be smothered with this again so why don’t we move on.
————————-
Lol, I don’t come from a dysfunctional family..? Why the personal attacks trisha? Or was that directed at other people that don’t frequent the blog but are members of dysfunctional families? Aren’t you the one you thanked me for asking (?) randy and GLove to gang up on you? I don’t recall any poor me act on my part – again, I just asked that you not refer to me in a certain manner. You’re response was even less kind. Ray responded like an adult and a gentleman to my post.
FTR: We’re not dysfunctional, we’re just Italian.
@eboland11: Swisher said before FA started he talked w wife that they wanted to go “Where we were going to be wanted & where we were going to be loved”
Can you feel the love tonight
__
Narcissism alert!
Don’t see whats wrong with Swisher wanting to play for an organization that wants him a lot?
They certainly can’t void it now, but I wonder about at the time of discovery. Contracts are void able if entered into as the result of a material misrepresentation. Did he misrepresent? I don’t know, but I bet one could find statements from him denying use. Surely, the Yankees would say if he hadn’t denied use, we wouldn’t have risked all the money on him.
“nobody knows how an upton or stanton would perform in the cauldron of new york.”
The cauldron of new york, to me, is always a crap shoot.
***********
jerkface, were you balistic when the postseason ended? Serious question because I don’t take notes on different individual’s postitons on things, the way randy and some others seem to do. The reason I ask is because Swisher turned out to be a wash in the postseason, and if success in the postseason would be your measuring stick for whether or not the Yankees had a successful year, bringing Swisher back could have been a mistake.
If Cashman rode up on his mo-ped with Upton on board then he would totally redeem himself
“Don’t see whats wrong with Swisher wanting to play for an organization that wants him a lot?”
Nothing, the contract alone offers that, but love? Really?
Knicks/Spurs tonight – - – -
I don’t see what’s wrong with Swisher. He was the most consistently solid offensive performer over the last four years. Yes, he stunk in the playoffs. Many others have as well. He played hard, never made excuses or criticized a teammate or was a problem in any way.
I wish him well.
Ballistic? Probably not? You have to get to the postseason to have success or failure in it. Swisher is a good player, highly underrated, who helped the Yankees greatly in the regular season every year he was here. He is a big guy for community outreach, charity, and positive promotion for the Yankees (like Granderson & Tex as well).
Swisher coming back being a mistake is only one if they were willing to get a better alternative. They weren’t.
Nothing, the contract alone offers that, but love? Really?
–
Cashman traveled personally to sit down & sweet talk CC.
The Yankees put Tex on the jumbo tron and played his favorite music.
Those are examples of a team showing love for a player. You have to differentiate between romantic love & “show me some love” as a friend or organization would do.
@JonHeymanCBS: Starting to think no one will get into the hall of fame jan 9. No inside knowledge, just reading the public ballots/columns
The HOF is a shamockery if this happens
Yes, Cashman can be a hero. Add a good right handed bat who won’t leave after 2013. Upton would be nice. Morse as a fall back. Stanton is not even remotely possible.
Love plus the bigger contract cannot always buy you players – as Gene Michael learned with Greg Maddux – - – -
It would be interesting to read the posts if Giancarlo was acquired on January 13 this year (would be on a Sunday though) – - – -
I suspect love really means a strong desire for him to come play with them. We are all human. Much desire is baseball is expressed by money, but why not make him feel wanted in other ways?
Whats funny is that Maddux turned down the Yankees because he wanted to win. Which he technically did.
Reaction to any trade would depend on the players involved. Most would love a trade for Stanton, but have limits. One player adds a few wins. They cannot lose too much of their future for anyone.
I think Levine is more likely to get arrested stalking him than the Yankees are to sign him.
austinmac says:
January 3, 2013 at 5:17 pm
Yes, Cashman can be a hero. Add a good right handed bat who won’t leave after 2013. Upton would be nice. Morse as a fall back. Stanton is not even remotely possible.
Agreed….
“Those are examples of a team showing love for a player. You have to differentiate between romantic love & “show me some love” as a friend or organization would do.”
I think that treatment, whatever you call it, is reserved for superstars, but ok.
All i say about Mr. Maddux is this – thank you for passing so the Yanks got Jimmy Key – and I am more than happy that Jimmy Key was the winning pitcher in game 6 of the 1996 WS over Mr. Maddux and the clinching game – - – -
as far as using the economic collapse as a reason why a business isn’t doing well, i think that can be an easy excuse.
is yankee attendance dropping? i hadn’t noticed. i know i personally only watched half as much as i usually do last year because i could see where management and ownership were taking the team. i do think more and more people will also see it and this will eventually affect the bottom line.
as far as the northeast not doing well, my experience is that my business dropped 40% in 2008 like many others, but now we’re back above our previous high water mark . experienced business people usually figure out a way to get the job done.
the yankees should have no trouble figuring out a way to continue growing their business. if they don’t it’s on hal and not the economy.
it does not help a business if customers keep supporting it if it gives lousy service or creates a bad product.
for example,when a customer walks away from a good restaurant that is suddenly giving bad service or having bad food, it gives the restaurant the incentive to get better.
if a customer supports the downward trend of the business by continuing giving it dollars the customer just encourages the decline.
use dollars as a weapon. use them as a vote.
the good business will pay attention.
the bad business won’t.
we’ll see which one hal is .
They just have to keep half of Williams, Austin, Flores, & Heathcott.
mick, I’m willing to let 2013 play out before I declare it a lost season. I know that kind of thinking seems to be heretical around here.
============================
what else would they talk about?
Did Lohse get a QO?
I think that treatment, whatever you call it, is reserved for superstars, but ok.
–
Non-super stars are just as deserving of love & quality treatment.
Jerkface says:
January 3, 2013 at 5:23 pm
They just have to keep half of Williams, Austin, Flores, & Heathcott.
Yup
Shame, you used the word dysfunctional in the past. Maybe you were joking. I find it too much work to interact with you at this point in time so I am opting to move on.
Yes – Lohse was QOed – - – -
“Non-super stars are just as deserving of love & quality treatment.”
That the money offered is acceptable to them is the quality treatment, and the market determines what all players deserve.
Taken together with providing the opportunity to win, that’s a lot of love.
If Cashman couldn’t offer that to CC, all the “love” probably wouldn’t have mattered.
So are you or are you not keeping notes on people?
I don’t think Id wanna give a draft pick for Lohse even if he would do a one year deal…..wonder if marcum would do one year
we’ll see which one hal is .
================
key words being “we’ll see.”
many here have pronounced this team a bad product
mainly because they have been boring.
when you have a team that relies on the HR, you wait for it….wait for it.
ah, there it is, all is not lost….i am happy now….the hero swinger done did it again.
now… we have replaced 3 hero swingers with speed and situational hitters and let the complaining begin.
people just love to complain…that is the answer…..that,and they know better….
Randy,
Well said. It is a simple concept.
That the money offered is acceptable to them is the quality treatment, and the market determines what all players deserve.
Taken together with providing the opportunity to win, that’s a lot of love.
If Cashman couldn’t offer that to CC, all the “love” probably wouldn’t have mattered.
–
You know there is more to giving someone money that quality treatment covers. Its the difference between politely giving money to someone and throwing it in their face while cursing.
I really, really do not see what you & others find disagreeable with Swisher wanting the organization to like him & want him. He is a very personable & outgoing guy. Its just the way he works. Read the 5 love languages or something.
“So are you or are you not keeping notes on people?”
No way! I reserve my energies for important matters. )
“many here have pronounced this team a bad product”
My read is that the team has been called a flawed and incomplete product as presently constituted. Obviously, people believe that can change at any time, as evidenced by the serial trade proposals, which are an indicator of hope.
But it’s reasonable to assess the team as it is, not what it might be.
“people just love to complain…that is the answer…..that,and they know better….”
You’re doing what you accuse others of doing.
I really, really do not see what you & others find disagreeable with Swisher wanting the organization to like him & want him.
=======================
Maybe it’s the way he and Jones smiled when they struck out….
Maybe it’s the way he and Jones smiled when they struck out….
–
Derek Jeter smirks on strike out calls. Cano smiles all the time. Throw em all out, eh?
Yanks will possibly have two supplemental picks – which are almost in the traditional first round – BA has their picks around 31 and 32 now – the Yanks current 1st round pick is right now around 27 – with 4 QO to go – - – -
If the Yanks sign another QO on a pillow deal – we know they lose the 1st round pick – and lose some draft pool money – - – -
But 2013 is supposed to not be a great draft – BA states it has HS catchers, HS lefties, and some college arms – - – - -
Though I am not sure Bourn or Lohse are worth messing with 2013 draft – but you could see where signing Bourn or Lohse and then offering a QO on them next year and getting a supplemental pick in a best 2014 draft possibly might be better than the kid you draft with the 1st rounder this year and the draft pool money you would spend – - – -
This all presumes Boras does not have a contract provision saying someone like Bourn could not be offered a QO and Loshe or Bourn accept the QO – - – -
You’re doing what you accuse others of doing.
=======================
complaining about the complainers is not the same as complaining about the team.
an incomplete team, same as last year at this time.
The new draft rules are so stupid.
I know very little about Gumbs beyond the internet – can the guy be switched to 3b or RF down the road?
“I really, really do not see what you & others find disagreeable with Swisher wanting the organization to like him & want him. He is a very personable & outgoing guy.”
Let’s deal specifically with the Yankees. Have they shown that they don’t like him?
Obviously, I think some were put off by Swisher’s criticism of the fans after his misplay in the field v. Detroit.
Maybe I am misinterpreting the word “love” because of my age. IOW, I hear some people say: “Show him some love.” Maybe they don’t mean love in the traditional sense, and it’s just an expression?
Again for me personally, I like Swisher’s game (he contributed a lot in NY), but I don’t love (oops) his personality.
We are all devout Yankee fans. No doubt. We all want what is best for the team. Many of us don’t like some of what see or don’t see. It won’t stop us from being fans, but we all have options with our time. The Yankees from a business sense should make a Yankee game a can’t be missed event.
@JUS10UP10: Appreciate the support. This is the view from my hotel room. Going to enjoy it and not worry about this trade nonsense http://t.co/LWxs5tWo
“complaining about the complainers is not the same as complaining about the team.”
That’s a matter of opinion. I strongly disagree with you.
“an incomplete team, same as last year at this time.”
I think they were better in early January than they were in early February.
Derek Jeter smirks on strike out calls. Cano smiles all the time. Throw em all out, eh?
=======================
to compare Jeter to them is heresy.
smirking at an ump who supposedly made a bad call is not the same as full facial smiling as if you did something you are proud of.
imagine if O’Neill did that?
Cano never smiles when he strikes out, he gets down and frowns.
Let’s deal specifically with the Yankees. Have they shown that they don’t like him?
Obviously, I think some were put off by Swisher’s criticism of the fans after his misplay in the field v. Detroit.
–
What I am wondering is, why is Swisher saying that in relation to signing with the Indians being taken as a slight against the Yankees? They didn’t even offer him a contract.
mick-
i think the present yankee team is about a 91+/ – team right now.
one major injury to a key pitcher and the minus comes into play.
i don’t think this is a doom and gloom prediction. i think it’s a good intuitive prediction.
it seems quite a few other people feel a similar thing.
so what’s your number?
you seem to think the yankees are a 95+ team.
if that is indeed what you think,i’m curious why you think that.
Stoneburner,
Good thought on essentially deferring the draft pick for a year of one of the players.
to compare Jeter to them is heresy.
smirking at an ump who supposedly made a bad call is not the same as full facial smiling as if you did something you are proud of.
imagine if O’Neill did that?
Cano never smiles when he strikes out, he gets down and frowns.
–
Humans react to stress in different ways. I imagine you’d play poorly with someone whose distress reaction is to smile, hope your significant other is truly a dour lass. I wouldn’t want any of my players acting like O’Neill. You’d rather the team deploy a bunch of tantrum throwing children?
Who cares what a player looks like when they strike out, or when a team is losing? Are they still giving effort? Are they still capable of winning? How can you be crabbing about people who are down on the Yankees on this blog, but then turn around and lash out at players who are not sweating the small stuff? Is it not optimistic for the player who strikes out to realize they are the Yankees and they are not yet eliminated? No yankees were smiling when they were being eliminated in the ALCS.
“What I am wondering is, why is Swisher saying that in relation to signing with the Indians being taken as a slight against the Yankees? They didn’t even offer him a contract.”
I don’t think he is slighting the Yankees, and it wouldn’t bother me if he did, but I can see how the sentence you are responding to would make you think that.
Again, I just thought that his use of the word love was a bit much.
randy
i’m thinking along the same lines as you.
am curious to see how ichiro, youk and gardner impact the team.
also think grandy will have a big season and cano a monster one.
think the staff is better than last year with andy here for a full season and kuroda established.
think this team will rally around Mo,Jeter and Andy and win it all.
I can’t imagine caring about someone’s facial expression when he strikes out. We all have our own way of dealing with frustration. Do you really think he doesn’t care?
Swisher cared enough about Yabkee fans to be hurt when they booed him….I’ll miss Swish and I’m afraid a lot of fans may too pretty soon
No yankees were smiling when they were being eliminated in the ALCS.
========================
Swisher was when he did his somersault in RF.
Swisher cared enough about Yabkee fans to be hurt when they booed him
===========================
No. He cared more about himself.
“I can’t imagine caring about someone’s facial expression when he strikes out. We all have our own way of dealing with frustration. Do you really think he doesn’t care?”
I can’t recall the last Yankee who is as good as Cano, who has had his expressions and body language as negatively misconstrued by some fans. It’s like some twisted version of phrenology.
People like Mick simply want the players to reflect their own frustrations. Its understandable, as humans are group animals, but should also be smart enough to look past it.
People like Mick simply want the players to reflect their own frustrations.
=====================
Most of them do.
austinmac-
the yankees should be monitoring blogs like lohud because customers of businesses don’t usually complain directly when they are dissatisfied . they just quietly go away.
this blog has a wealth of info about the yankees from all sides of the spectrum.
if the yankees were smart they’d be paying attention.
maybe they are, but somehow, i don’t think they are.
i get the feeling they take their customer for granted. i also don’t think they know who their ideal customer is. i will give them a hint.
their ideal customer is not the one who’s not in his/her luxury seat behind home plate.
Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2013 at 5:39 pm
“complaining about the complainers is not the same as complaining about the team.”
That’s a matter of opinion. I strongly disagree with you.
“an incomplete team, same as last year at this time.”
I think they were better in early January than they were in early February.
///////
This…. I will go a little bit further…. The team that started the 2012 season was very poorly constructed…. Lots of aging players both on the regular lineup and the bench, too many one dimensional bats and very little speed once Gardner went down along with Nunez. The pitching carry this team to the PS.
Randy,
I see this team as a very flawed team… They didn’t addressed their more pressing issues, other than bringing two good but old and declining players…. Like we don’t already have enough of those…. They may be a 91 wins team., but in any case it will be very boring to watch…. If they sustain any mayor injury to their pitching staff, they may not win 91. I hope I am wrong though.
Swisher is an emotional guy….it’s probably why he can’t hit in the playoffs…. It’s not a crime….I think he really did love playing in NY and did a lot of good on and off the field there ….I choose to remember that
Cano biggest problem is making great plays and hitting look too easy. Fans loved the gritty, all out apppearance. Compare Cano and Pedroia. It is only now Cano is getting his defensive due.
“am curious to see how ichiro, youk and gardner impact the team.”
i like how jeter and ichiro played together last year. i think the two hall of famers set a nice tone for the team. i really don’t care about the lost home runs.
that said, they were stronger when they had ichiro and swisher.
@joe_sheehan: The one certainty is that the voters, rather than the players, are now the primary focus of the Hall of Fame process.
They may be a 91 wins team., but in any case it will be very boring to watch…
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Since when is personal boredom a criterion?
I don’t care if they are what you call boring as long as they win…
Some people found it boring in ’98 too.
austinmac January 3rd, 2013 at 5:55 pm
Cano biggest problem is making great plays and hitting look too easy. Fans loved the gritty, all out apppearance. Compare Cano and Pedroia. It is only now Cano is getting his defensive due.
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This…..
“Compare Cano and Pedroia. It is only now Cano is getting his defensive due.”
Fans should remember that Pedroia is gritty sitting over on the bench a big chunk of the games every year too while Cano plays 160 every year
that said, they were stronger when they had ichiro and swisher.
===========================
hard to say that when we haven’t seen what Ichiro will do as the steady RFer, for a full season.
he may impact the game as the superstar he once was and still could be.
he is till one of the fastest runners on the team and a better baserunner than gardner, by far.
again, we’ll see….
Which is funny when people criticize Ichiro for the same thing they criticize Gardner for on the base paths.
When you’re living and dying with each pitch with the team & Swisher walks up in a big spot and can’t hit a breaking ball and laughs himself back to the bench and then you see him in the dugout on the bench giggling like he just heard a fart joke, it rubs many fans the wrong way.
I don’t think he was a great player. I think he was good but when the team needed him to step up and turn off the WWE schtick, he couldn’t do it. He may have had some nice numbers, but I don’t think he’s a championship contributor.
The fact that the Yankees didn’t even talk dollars with him tells me everything.
I really do think that the front office knows who the chronic disappearing acts are in the post season and they are trying to move on from them.
I almost get a feeling that they are looking for clutch now. For guys who can stay within themselves and are more centered than some of the players we’ve seen.
If Swisher hits .270 with 25 HR’s in Cleveland I won’t miss him if Ichiro and Gardner are healthy and producing and we have a RH hitting OF who can crush LHP. Swisher could hit pitchers who gave him cookies over the plate. Once the guy made the ball move, he was an easy out. The only saving grace was he had a good eye at the plate, but if a pitcher commanded a breaking ball somewhat he was toast.
He had his career year in his contract season but he cost himself millions by not contributing for the 3rd post season in a row. The fact that actual contenders all didn’t go after him more aggressively tells you everything about how he was perceived in the league. Teams like the Phillies, Rangers, Giants, Orioles, Braves all passed on him while he was negotiating with Cleveland and Mariners; 2 second tier teams that had to overpay to get someone to come to them. That spoke volumes. Even the Red Sox only wanted him if they could get a steal/deal on him.
He’s a nice player, but he came up short and was so incredibly streaky you couldn’t depend on him at all. It always seemed to me, when he came through you were stunned/surprised. At least I was.
If they sustain any mayor injury to their pitching staff, they may not win 91.
============================================
same can be said about any team, look at the phillies.
this staff looks deeper than any others with phelps and nova battling for the #5 spot.
the bottom line about the 2013 Yankees is this: they haven’t added anything to make their team better than last year. everyone is a year older and has another serious injury/surgery on their resume. this isn’t up for debate.
Randy,
My step-daughter is in the extremely lucrative industry of gathering and analyzing tweets, Facebook postings and the like. The Fortune 500 companies use it, the PGA tour uses it as do both political parties.
The Yankees better be reading fan postings. Good enterprises want to listen to their customers.
No one is suggesting fans dictate moves, but the tenor is important. Revenue is the name of the game, and it comes from corporations and individuals. I would bet the team has someone feeling the corporate pulse. Ours matter. Yes ratings come from us as do most of the ticket sales.
Mick,
98 was a thrilling year on many levels. The team was balanced, it had present and future mixed in. Had a very good situational lineup with a very good mix of power and avg. they were never out of a ball game.
You are comparing apples to oranges or worse….. Root beer to a bottle of Krug Champagne…
Last season team was boring in no small part to their one dimensional approach and age. As of right now, this team hasn’t improved much on the main flaws it showed last season. Especially in the age department.
When you’re living and dying with each pitch with the team & Swisher walks up in a big spot and can’t hit a breaking ball and laughs himself back to the bench and then you see him in the dugout on the bench giggling like he just heard a fart joke, it rubs many fans the wrong way.
I don’t think he was a great player. I think he was good but when the team needed him to step up and turn off the WWE schtick, he couldn’t do it. He may have had some nice numbers, but I don’t think he’s a championship contributor.
================================
And that is the root of it.
Growing up with championships, I don’t remember one player with his personality.
I would have liked to see how Munson reacted to him.
Or Martin….not Russell.
I don’t think he was a great player. I think he was good but when the team needed him to step up and turn off the WWE schtick, he couldn’t do it. He may have had some nice numbers, but I don’t think he’s a championship contributor.”
He helped them make the playoffs every year though…..I would have probably passed on that contract because of his age but I so think they’ll miss his production short term
“We are all devout Yankee fans. No doubt. We all want what is best for the team. Many of us don’t like some of what see or don’t see. It won’t stop us from being fans, but we all have options with our time. The Yankees from a business sense should make a Yankee game a can’t be missed event.”
austin, I understand and respect what you’re saying. But the specifics of what’s best for the team is a wide-open question. I believe the Yankees believe they are making Yankee games “a can’t be missed” event. Since they were picked to go all the way last season, others too believed the games were can’t be missed events. Some of us think the Yankees will be fine and don’t appreciate being told our thoughts are “fantasy” (not saying you said this). And reading the comments about Swisher, it’s easy to see there’s little unanimity of thought, just a lot of different opinions.
The strength of your opinion is obvious because you have posted about it before. I feel just as strongly about mine.
“the bottom line about the 2013 Yankees is this: they haven’t added anything to make their team better than last year. everyone is a year older and has another serious injury/surgery on their resume. this isn’t up for debate.”
Right, it’s just the reality, and the idea that pointing this out is a complaint is ludicrous.
Swisher had a career year? He had one in 2010. Not 2012. He is just a solid performer in the regular season.
If, and it may be a big if, they can get a productive right handed bat I will be over Swisher. Right now his production will be missed. They lost it at catcher. They need to replace some somewhere.
Swisher will definitely be missed, but I can understand why they didn’t want to extend him.
Ibanez , Chavez and Jones were old…and gone.
Youk should not be compared to these guys.
Nunez and Gardner bring the team age down.
austinmac January 3rd, 2013 at 6:09 pm
If, and it may be a big if, they can get a productive right handed bat I will be over Swisher. Right now his production will be missed. They lost it at catcher. They need to replace some somewhere.
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I agree with your basic premise….But on the C position they didn’t lost much, unless you are talking about Posada
Martin is a character that I am actually thrilled that he is no longer on the team.
blake,
No question Swisher helped them make the playoffs. But a solid righty lefty platoon in RF could’ve also helped them make the playoffs. I’m not talking giving the job to Chris Dickerson and Justin Maxwell (although that could’ve actually worked), but since the Yankees have a manager who lives and dies by platoon splits, they could’ve put together a platoon that could have also gotten them to the playoffs.
I think his impact is actually being overstated now that he’s gone. There’s so many “you’re gonna miss him” posts that I’m actually excited to see if that comes to pass for all of us this season.
I keep going back to the fact that contenders who had openings in the OF and 1b all really didn’t engage the guy when he was a free agent. I think there’s a reason for that.
Trisha,
One of the points of a board is to hear others thoughts. I learn a lot here. I agree and disagree with many. I could be right or wrong. One point I always emphasize is the future is largely unknown. Next year could be filled with injuries and slumps or health and bounces back.
There is really little else for a fan to do in the winter other than analyze, complain, hope and cheer. We are simply sitting around an electronic device saying these things rather than around a real not stove.
if the yankees were smart they’d be paying attention.
maybe they are, but somehow, i don’t think they are.
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Trust me they are. Every organization monitors blogs, boards, and other forms of social media. That doesn’t mean they let it affect what they do but they definitely pay attention.
Luis,
For all of Martin’s flaws, just look at Stewart’s lifetime stats. No, don’t. You seem like too nice of guy to see something like that.
Cervelli can be okay at the plate. I wonder though if the Yankees believe in his defense enough to start or even play regularly. I wouldn’t rule out Bobby Wilson.
As G. Love stated…when you live and die with every pitch…and a player continually doesn’t come through…you live with it.
When you are in the upper deck and can’t see it but know he has that stupid smirk on his face like he’s getting paid anyway and life is good….well.
mick January 3rd, 2013 at 6:11 pm
Ibanez , Chavez and Jones were old…and gone.
Youk should not be compared to these guys.
Nunez and Gardner bring the team age down.
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Youk is declining, he is not the player of 2004. Ichiro is well….39 going on 40. The hope I have is the potential openings that this roster may produce to the young guys. Of course, I am counting on them learning that Mcgehes of the world are not better than what you may have internally.
“Since when is personal boredom a criterion?
I don’t care if they are what you call boring as long as they win…
Some people found it boring in ’98 too.”
I feel the same way mick. And it’s the same as everything else. One person’s boredom is another person’s enthusiasm. How in hell do you satisfy everyone? So maybe winning has to be the criterion. I personally find blow-outs boring. But I know well enough that my personal definition has to be put aside. If we all used our own definitions of boredom as the criterion to watching games, it would be hard to find a consistent fan base!
Come on – it is not like Swisher did this – - – -
http://tedquarters.net/yankees.....-mcdowell/
“When you are in the upper deck and can’t see it but know he has that stupid smirk on his face like he’s getting paid anyway and life is good….well.”
Oh please. As I said, I don’t love Swisher’s personality, but the idea that he isn’t busting his butt is absurd.
And again. mick, you complain about a lot of things, which is fine, but then to complain about what you believe is complaining? Jeez.
AAO,
I am also sure the Yankee are watching. Why wouldn’t they?
And no, I don’t believe they have ever analyzed any of my baseball suggestions. Nor should they in all likelihood.:)
Joelsherman1 Talking #Yankees minor lge prospects, Stanton, AL East, Matsui, remaining FAs on Yankees Baseball Tonight 6:30-7:30 on YES.
I hope we get Justin Upton and don’t miss Swish….we’ll see
austinmac January 3rd, 2013 at 6:17 pm
Luis,
For all of Martin’s flaws, just look at Stewart’s lifetime stats. No, don’t. You seem like too nice of guy to see something like that.
Cervelli can be okay at the plate. I wonder though if the Yankees believe in his defense enough to start or even play regularly. I wouldn’t rule out Bobby Wilson.
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I wouldn’t count too much on Cervelli. He is having the same defensive issues on winter ball he has had in the past. I saw Bobby Abreu steal second base from him, and he can barely run nowadays. I have more faith on Romine winning the job in ST . Also, if you asked me, I would have hired AJP instead of Youkilis.
again, to say this team will be boring is using last years team as the standard.
the team that had no situational hitting.
maybe they were listening to this blog and let the hairy hero swingers go
and replaced them with youk, nuney , gardy, ichiro…
Would those with Yes access tell us if you hear any tidbit of information or rumor?
austin mac-
that has to be an interesting field to be in that your step daughter is in.
there are sites like pinterest that are extremely useful because of how they aggregate. that’s another whole thing.
http://pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=baseball
just type in whatever interest
just today i looked at about 200 crafts people in less than an hour and closed a deal for next summer with a really good potter who i hadn’t heard of before. normally i’d have to spend thousands going to trade shows to see new work. today i made thousands without any expense.
the world is changing fast. what worked ten years ago doesn’t necessarily work today.
old dogs do need to learn new tricks.
the yankees are an old dog at this point. i really do think some fresh management more in tune with the times would help them.that means young and female wouldn’t hurt either.
old white males really aren’t the way to go in this new world we’re in.
Luis,
I would have gone after AJ P as well as tried internal guys at third.
Jones (0.4WAR), Ibanez (1.1WAR), and Chavez (1.8WAR) cannot be written off as “oh they were over the hill”. its ridiculous to state with such confidence that whatever fringe prospects the Yankees have in the minors will be able to to put together around three wins off the bench. you also can’t say those things about the three players i just mentioned but then be waving pom pom’s for Youkilis (notable injury history, definitely declining) and Ichiro. it doesn’t work that way.
Oh please. As I said, I don’t love Swisher’s personality, but the idea that he isn’t busting his butt is absurd.
================
Perception is reality , Rich.
Busting his butt are not my words..
It was Cashman who said he wanted or liked big hairy guys. Does he still?
Since when is personal boredom a criterion?
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I am just expressing my opinion. If you find and old team with very little offensive options other than the occasional long ball fun…. Please be my guess!
Randy,
I am familiar with Pinterest as my wife swears by it. I am an old white male who can still be led, albeit more slowly.
“Perception is reality , Rich.”
It’s also idiosyncratic.
austinmac January 3rd, 2013 at 6:22 pm
AAO,
I am also sure the Yankee are watching. Why wouldn’t they?
And no, I don’t believe they have ever analyzed any of my baseball suggestions. Nor should they in all likelihood.:)
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Lol they probably say Mac on Lohud is mad as hell and he’s not going to take it anymore.
Mick,
Maybe…. Let’s hope you are right
The Yankees are talking as if they expect Romine to be at SWB. I hope and think it is another way of saying he is going to have to prove to us he is ready. I sure hope he does. As someone said earlier today, at least he would give hope of improvement.
but the idea that he isn’t busting his butt is absurd.
———————–
Lost weight
Changed his diet
Ran hard
Tried his best in the outfield even though he wasn’t the best defended out there
waka flocka January 3rd, 2013 at 6:27 pm
Jones (0.4WAR), Ibanez (1.1WAR), and Chavez (1.8WAR) cannot be written off as “oh they were over the hill”. its ridiculous to state with such confidence that whatever fringe prospects the Yankees have in the minors will be able to to put together around three wins off the bench. you also can’t say those things about the three players i just mentioned but then be waving pom pom’s for Youkilis (notable injury history, definitely declining) and Ichiro. it doesn’t work that way.
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Ibanez and Chavez did an excellent job from the bench. They were exposed later on when they were forced to fill regular playing positions. In any case, I do believe that instead of the scrap heap they got, they would have had similar or better production from the farm kids. Especially if your lineup is old like our team.
@Giancarlo818
Just got absolutely dominated in ????Heated????Pilates class with @CDickerson_PFTP & @THe_cookies2 ! #Doworkson
Chris Dickerson might be the key to getting Giancarlo…who knew?
Also, if my potent sexuality makes anyone else uncomfortable (except you, Chad) please let me know. I don’t think trisha has ever tisk tisked anyone else for it, but I’m open to changing my ways (except when it comes to Team Greedy).
This YES special is pretty awesome… Sherman looks a lot older than I remember!
Talking Bourn now.. sounds like they doubt he can get the 4-5 years he wants. They seem to think the market has drastically shifted from a month ago. I think it’s just a matter of people assuming once the big names were off the board the remaining names would sign. I feel like there are probably 5-6 teams still trying to pry Upton away… could be some of those clubs will move to Bourn once it gets closer to ST.
Sherman thinks the Rangers or Mariners could get Giancarlo over the Yanks.
He also said despite the Marlins knowing about his being upset about the fire sale, they’re still serious about building around him. He does have a point though, he’ll be worth just as much during or after the 2013 season… maybe more.
so you’re saying they were exposed when they were forced into roles that they weren’t intended to play. that isn’t a knock on them. they did their jobs.
i disagree 100% with the notion that the Yankees could have replaced these three with guys from their system. Nunez is nothing special. he can hit for average and steal a base but is a butcher in the field, doesn’t walk, and doesn’t hit for power. no other prospect, outside of Romine, is even close to the majors.
The guys on the YES show keep talking about how good the Yankees are at acquiring back of the roster talent. The problem is the front of the roster, and they are not good at that.
Thanks, Shame!
i couldnt care less if they smile, frown, smash a cooler or scratch their a$$ after they strike out. that has nothing to do with anything.
“Sherman thinks the Rangers or Mariners could get Giancarlo over the Yanks.”
No doubt. The only way the Yankees could compete is if they could get high-end ML ready prospects or young cost-controlled veterans for Granderson and/or Cano.
Waka,
I was talking more about the other players they got midseason ( McGehe and company ). My knock on the bench has more to do with the age in general of the team. If your regulars are old, they are more susceptible to injuries, therefore your bench should be comprised of younger players that can take on the job load more easily than another past their prime injury prone vet.
On Nunez, he just needed playing time on one position. He has a very good bat. They had guys like Mustelier that could have been brought up to see if they could fill a role in the future. Especially if they knew they were letting Swish walk.
Damon Oppenheimer thinks Heathcott could play on the Yankees in 2013 at some point. Which means they have to be looking at starting him in AA, unless Newman is the one with the most control then I’d expect him in A+.
If Oppenheimer thinks he could play a role in 2013. I believe him.
Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2013 at 6:50 pm
The guys on the YES show keep talking about how good the Yankees are at acquiring back of the roster talent. The problem is the front of the roster, and they are not good at that.
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Yeah.. but I guess if their plan works you gotta figure they can buy that front line guy. Big if, but I’m not giving up on Manny yet. And once Campos gets his TJS, watch out!!
JF – Heathcott should be fast tracked this season. He’s definitely the one guy they should push. Kid seems crazy enough that it might work.. my only worry would be he’d be so jacked to be playing in the bigs he’d dive into the stands and break something.
BRB
Sherman said if he had to pick a Yankee to take an at-bat that his life depended on, Matsui would be on his short list lol.. can’t disagree.
We should make our short lists.
Rich in NJ January 3rd, 2013 at 6:57 pm
“Sherman thinks the Rangers or Mariners could get Giancarlo over the Yanks.”
No doubt. The only way the Yankees could compete is if they could get high-end ML ready prospects or young cost-controlled veterans for Granderson and/or Cano.
—————–
The smart move (probably) is to just wait on Stanton. His value will only go up and he’s controlled for enough years that 3 years worth of him might be worth just as much as 4.
The only issue is that Heathcott isn’t on the 40 man roster, so I’m not sure they are going to call him up if someone is injured or something, so I wonder about that statement. It was Jack Curry referencing Oppenheimer, not Oppenheimer himself.
Like if someone gets injured, are they going to dump someone from the 40 man to jump Heathcott up to the majors? Or go with Mesa/Almonte or trying someone like FLores (who is on the 40 man)?
Would they put him on the 40 man just for a september call up? He needs to go on next offseason to avoid the rule 5.
Kinda gotta agree with the panel that the weakest club in the division is the Sox.
I dunno that the O’s can repeat… but man some of their young players are exciting. I wish Machado was on our club.
CMW is a free agent lol?? How’d I miss that…
If the O’s really wanted to repeat they ought sign Laroche away from the Nats & pretty much need to re-sign Saunders.
Nunez hitting around .270 in the Dominican League.
Maybe they’re just leaking all this stuff about not believing in his defensive ability to motivate him… I do think they should use him at DH though. No reason to throw money there.
“The fact that he’s not playing 3B in the Dominican right now.. just look at how many games Youkilis has played at 3B – he should be getting time at 3B.” – Sherman (got the quote as accurately as possible)
Curry thinks Romine wins the starting C job. Can’t disagree. They’re probably hoping he comes in to camp in top shape and makes an impression.
Curry didn’t vote for Bonds or Clemens.. didn’t realize that.
Shame Spencer January 3rd, 2013 at 7:20 pm
Nunez hitting around .270 in the Dominican League.
Maybe they’re just leaking all this stuff about not believing in his defensive ability to motivate him… I do think they should use him at DH though. No reason to throw money there.
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Call me crazy if you will, but I think Nunez will be key for the Yankees to succeed next season. We don’t know how Jeter will be playing coming from that ankle injury. He might end up playing a lot more than expected. If that’s the case, he might surprise with some regular playing time.
“Damon Oppenheimer thinks Heathcott could play on the Yankees in 2013 at some point. Which means they have to be looking at starting him in AA, unless Newman is the one with the most control then I’d expect him in A+.”
I thought I read somewhere that Heathcott was definately starting at Trenton
Yanks need to focus on Upton….they don’t have enough to get Giancarlo even if they wanted him
Shame Spencer January 3rd, 2013 at 7:22 pm
Curry thinks Romine wins the starting C job. Can’t disagree. They’re probably hoping he comes in to camp in top shape and makes an impression.
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Yup…. The way Cervelii is playing in winter league and Stewart limited skills… I think the job is his to lose
if i had to pick any yankee i saw to get a hit in a big spot it’s gotta be godzilla.
except if it’s a WS game, then matsui is second to reggie.
I for one fondly remember Gardner and Nunez running riot on bases a couple of years ago. Add Ichiro to the mix and it might be fun again.
Watching players swing really hard in case it’s a FB and succeeding once every five games or less, bores me to tears. On top of that I talk to inanimate objects and the bar bill goes astronomical. The whole thing spirals inward and down. It became, that I dreaded man on third and one out, two strikes on the hitter.
!@#$ A-Rod. Don’t play him in 2013 then bench him in 2014, $6M extra on the 2014 payroll avoided. He’ll beg for a buyout after 2014 when he’s at only 654 HR through 2014 as he’ll hit no more than 7 HR in 2014. He’ll want out so he can sign elsewhere to get 109 HR to pass Bonds or at least pass Ruth, so offer him half his remaining salary ($30.5M since he’s due $61M 2015-17) for that amount cleared 2015-17.