No date set for Rodriguez’s surgery
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 04, 2013 
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Just last night I was thinking that I should call Brian Cashman and find out what’s going on with Alex Rodriguez’s surgery. Looks like Dan Martin made that call for me.
Martin reported this morning that no date has been set for Rodriguez’s surgery. Not sure that should be considered a setback — we’ve known all along that it likely wouldn’t happen until January — and if it doesn’t happen until mid-to-late January, that changes expectations by only a week or two. It could be a problem, based on what we know now, and based on how vague the situation was to begin with, it’s hard to get too worked up about it.
Cashman is still hesitant to give an expected return date, but as someone brought up in this afternoon’s chat, he did acknowledge that this year’s Yankees are likely to hit fewer home runs without Rodriguez, Nick Swisher or Russell Martin.
“I know a lot of people have told me they think home runs are bad,” Cashman said. “I’m not one of them. Well, those people are going to get a chance to see what it looks like.”
Here’s Rex’s tat for anyone interested: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....-1.1232856
I’m surprised the DN thought it was front page worthy lol.. seems more like a move the Post would make.
Why is this surgery being delayed?! The Yanks def would have kept his injury under wraps longer if they could have.. someone must have gotten a hold of the story so they announced it. I’d bet anything, given this report, that they would have preferred not to discuss it until later in the off season.
“Cashman is still hesitant to give an expected return date, but as someone brought up in this afternoon’s chat, he did acknowledge that this year’s Yankees are likely to hit fewer home runs without Rodriguez, Nick Swisher or Russell Martin.
‘I know a lot of people have told me they think home runs are bad,”\’ Cashman said. ‘I’m not one of them. Well, those people are going to get a chance to see what it looks like.’”
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I fail to see where that’s an in-your-face or sarcasm. I think simply his statement of fact.
@Buster_ESPN
Eli Whiteside on waivers for at least the fourth time. Has gone from SF to NYY to TOR to Texas before going on waivers again this week.
—————
Bet we pick him up.. again.
‘I know a lot of people have told me they think home runs are bad,”’ Cashman said. ‘I’m not one of them. Well, those people are going to get a chance to see what it looks like.’”
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I fail to see where that’s an in-your-face or sarcasm. I think simply his statement of fact.
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The bolded part is not fact at all.. which is why it’s being perceived as sarcastic and misinformed.
Cashman is so full of it. People love HRs, but they also prefer that HRs come from players that can hit for AVG as well.
It’s sad that he has become so defensive that he needs to make stuff up.
His intepretation of hearing complaints about the Ys being nothing but homerun hitters. I would say that he’s advising that those fans stick around to see what it’s like without the home runs. I’m sure Cashman is sick to death of hearing nothing but moaning and complaining from Yankee fans. In addition to being the GM of the Yankees, he’s human.
. I would say that he’s advising that those fans stick around to see what it’s like without the home runs.
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Which is defensive/insulting/sarcastic. Like a mom refusing to make any dinner at all for her kids because they dont want to eat her broccoli. We know Cashman prefers HR hitters, he says as much, so what you have here is a man spitefully giving the masses what he thinks they want.
But of course he is at the same time being obtuse about the real complaints, which is that the team lacked all around hitters (outside of someone like Cano). So his response to this strawman is to take away all the HRs, instead of doing something… oh balanced or that makes sense.
No one thinks HRs are bad. No one. Ever.
No one thinks HRs are bad. No one. Ever.
******
I do – - – -
Cashman is setting the fans up to take the blame if the teams sucks? Hey….you guys asked for a geriatric bunch of guys that don’t get on base and can’t hit homers right? Well here ya go……please Cash…..
- – - -when they are hit against Yankees pitching – - – -
wacka wacka wacka – - – - -
ah you can always count on Stoney to take exception to pretty much everything
trisha – true pinstriped blue
I’m sure Cashman is sick to death of hearing nothing but moaning and complaining from Yankee fans. In addition to being the GM of the Yankees, he’s human.
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Cashman is in the middle of a 3 year – $9M deal… I don’t care how he feels about Yankee fans internally, he can keep his smug, holier than now comments to himself…
Cashman: “You don’t like HRs, huh?! Well we’ll see how much you don’t like them when I take them all away!! Hahaha!”
Everyone: “Uhh, just get some better all around hitters, bro.”
He is partially weaseling out of his own roster construction/constraints by putting onus on the fans. So THIS is the time he listens to the fans, when its doing something he himself says he is against. Ok, bro.
I don’t agree with your interpretation jerkface. And I don’t know that it’s defensive/insulting/sarcastic as much as it’s factual and something he may see as a teaching moment. The season didn’t play out the way that he and a whole host of others predicted it to play out.
But I’m not here to defend Cashman’s moves, merely to say I didn’t find that statement offensive.
Seriously, Cashman used to be a refreshingly candid guy who was able to articulate a vision for a franchise that nicely wedded both scouting and stats. But in recent years, he has become a prevaricating, whining shell of the man he seemed to be.
And I don’t know that it’s defensive/insulting/sarcastic as much as it’s factual and something he may see as a teaching moment.
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Someone teaching a fake subset of people a lesson by purposefully fielding a weaker team is not good. People who ‘teach lessons’ in this manner are bad people.
It’s sad that he has become so defensive that he needs to make stuff up.
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He’s become very defensive over the yrs.
Buster Olney ?@Buster_ESPN
Kobe Bryant’s on twitter. @Kobebryant Verified.
Buster – come on with this stuff – I need you working the phone lines – talking to your sources – what do you know? Upton? Morse? Stealth trade?
The implication behind opening with that statement about HRs are bad, then himself denying it, then leading in to that being the current plan and they “will see what its like” is that seeing what its like should be distasteful for those fans.
The end result is of course Cashman saying “I told you so”. I can see why you, Trisha, would not take umbrage with anything leading to a solid ‘I told you so’.
“He’s become very defensive over the yrs.”
Which is understandable. Remember what he said when he got more power after the 2005 season:
“We have the most money, there’s no secret about that,” Cashman said. “If you combine that with the best decision-making process on a consistent basis, then God help the rest of baseball.”
He failed at implementing his own mission statement and he knows it.
Oh yeah – meant to add – good chat Chad – thanks for answering my questions – - – -
I seriously doubt that he’s intentionally fielding a weaker team. Not sure he knew Swisher was going to walk, no that Russell Martin wouldn’t be back. Add to it Arod’s surgery, he sees a drop in HR production. And whatever his marching orders are, he’s carrying out.
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rich, I factor in where his head was at last year with his huge PR nightmare and the effect it had on him. I mean it had to have taken a toll on him in many ways. Not sticking up for the choices he made, just trying to cut him some slack based on the situation.
I don’t mind defending Cashman — or at least playing Devil’s Advocate — when warranted, but this is a clear case of Cashman Fail.
He is obviously being sarcastic/petulant here, as I doubt that “a lot of people” have really told him that “home runs are bad” — silly strawman. But the really bad part of this quote is when he says “Well, those people are going to get a chance to see what it looks like.”
That’s worse because it’s another way of saying “I failed to build the kind of roster I prefer and now you’re going to see the results of that failure.”
Not good at all, Mr. Cashman. Yellow card.
If Juan Rivera could lefties like he did in 2011 – I could see the value of a ST invite – - – -
jerkface, you and many others have never forgiven Cashman for trading Montero. I factor that into every shot taken at him.
He is obviously being sarcastic/petulant here, as I doubt that “a lot of people” have really told him that “home runs are bad” — silly strawman. But the really bad part of this quote is when he says “Well, those people are going to get a chance to see what it looks like.”
That’s worse because it’s another way of saying “I failed to build the kind of roster I prefer and now you’re going to see the results of that failure.”
————-
Right.. it’s almost like he’s talking as a person that isn’t in charge of building the roster.
Lohse still out there – and workouts on the two cuban FAs looming:
The Cardinals have not revisited signing free agent right-hander Kyle Lohse since extending him a qualifying offer. Lohse declined the offer, preferring the free agent market. However, the 34-year-old hasn’t received an official offer to this point in the winter. It appears that teams are hesitant to surrender the draft pick required to complete a deal.
The Cardinals are keeping tabs on the market for Cuban free agents Aledmys Diaz and Dariel Alvarez, Goold reports. Diaz, a shortstop, turns 23 next week, while Alvarez is a 24-year-old outfielder. The Cardinals plan to have a front office member in attendance at an upcoming workout for the players. Jesse Sanchez introduced us to Diaz and Alvarez in a piece at MLB.com back in November.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#ljTdywc7xx4hYmtp.99
I seriously doubt that he’s intentionally fielding a weaker team. Not sure he knew Swisher was going to walk, no that Russell Martin wouldn’t be back. Add to it Arod’s surgery, he sees a drop in HR production. And whatever his marching orders are, he’s carrying out.
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Well if they didn’t want Swish to walk they prolly should have offered him a contract, same with Martin. The issue here is that all of those players leaving & the yankees having less HRs ‘on the books’ is fine, if Cashman doesn’t then go to the media and say neener neener you guys complained about this before now you get to eat your beets.
He could have just said, ‘We had a powerful club, but with the options we had available to us we’re going to move to a more balanced approach.’
Instead he made an unnecessarily antagonistic remark. I’m not even as annoyed by it as G. Love or others, and I generally do defend Cashman, but come on. Look at the statement he made, imagine any other dozen of safer/still true statements he could have made in its place.
i think this was cashman pretty much telling people that his hands are tied.
he didnt say that he wanted less home runs.
he’s putting it out there that this is not what he wanted.
i think this was cashman pretty much telling people that his hands are tied.
–
So his method of explaining his hands are tied is to blame the fans? Cool customer appreciation, Cashman.
Whenever the straw man fallacy/argument is brought up – I cannot help but think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8kgjin-JR0
nobody doesnt like home runs. people dont like everybody swinging for home runs when putting the ball in play is called for.
I don’t think I’d want to give a draft pick for Lohse even if he’d do a one year deal…..If Marcum were interesting in one year then yes.
“i think this was cashman pretty much telling people that his hands are tied.”
They weren’t tied for all but $28m of the current yearly outlay for the roster, and he had control over the draft and IFA signings since 2006. So even if his freedom is restricted now, his own decisions are a very large reason why.
“We have the most money, there’s no secret about that,” Cashman said. “If you combine that with the best decision-making process on a consistent basis, then God help the rest of baseball.”
This is a great quote because it’s basically Team Greedy’s mantra: God help you all.
We asked Cashman for less K’s and more contact hitters too…..where is that?
he didn’t blame fans. where did he blame fans? he just said some don’t like home runs. how is that blame?
‘I know a lot of people have told me they think home runs are bad,”’ Cashman said. ‘I’m not one of them. Well, those people are going to get a chance to see what it looks like.’”
The Yanks should shelve A-Rod for 2013 then keep him on the disabled list until he accepts a $43M buyout or half his remaining salary paid at half his salary per year across the duration of his contract (so the Yanks would clear $43M during that time including $12.5M for 2014) and if it means he never plays another game again, so be it.
If he rejects the buyout and never plays again, he can enjoy retiring after 2017 with 647 HR, 1950 RBI, and no Hall Of Fame induction cuz what HOF voter in his right mind would induct a guy who cheated for three years (2001-03), probably cheated for the next four (2004-07), stopped cheating and the very good but not A-Rod through 2007 great numbers showed it for three after that (2008-10), was utter crap for two (2011-12), was banished for / didn’t play (his last) and collected a paycheck for five (2013-17)?
I bet he would accept the buyout after being shelved for 2013 cuz he’d want to play somewhere for a chance to break the homerun record and he’s already !@#$ed with having only 647 HR / 116 short of the record at his age where he’s missing at least two-thirds if not 5/6ths or all of 2013. No way he’d risk being shelved or worse, benched, for 2014. If he doesn’t play in 2013 and hits only 7 HR in 2014, that’s only 654 career HR with only three years under contract left and he can kiss at least $24M in homerun milestone bonus money goodbye if not all $30M of the bonus money cuz no way he hits 60 more HR 2015-17 to even reach the first milestone (714 HR.)
‘Say he doesn’t play in 2013 shelved or not i.e. he is physically unable to play and accepts a $43M buyout paid across four years at $10.75M a year or half his salary per year after 2013. That means he could make $71M ($28M for 2013 + $43M buyout paid across 2014-17) through 2017 doing nothing if he retires after 2013 or $71M plus whatever he makes with whoever he signs with after 2013. If he plays 2014-17 and makes say $20M (an average of $5M a year), he still makes $91M in five years, an average of $18.2M a year. He could pull an Omar Vizquel like this: 647 HR going into 2014, he hits 80 more HR 2014-17 (averages 20 HR a year) for 727 HR through 2017, somehow, some way gets two or three more years from a team or two (or three if he signs with a different team a year if he plays three more years) and hits 36 more HR 2018-19/20 (averages 12 or 18 HR a year) to be the homerun king at age 45.
Yankee or not, I just don’t see him reaching even 700 HR or certainly 714 HR at his age, physical condition, and mental state which has to be a wreck right now. If he was smart he’d sit out for 2013, accept a buyout, give it one last try in 2014 with Seattle (the team he started with) and if he sucks, hang it up after 2014. Maybe he posts 14 HR and 50 RBI in 2014 for 661 career HR, one more than Willie Mays for fourth all-time behind Ruth, Aaron, and Bonds, and an even 2000 career RBI, 4 more than Bonds for fourth place behind Anson, Ruth, and Aaron for first ballot Hall Of Fame induction in 2019. He finishes hands down the greatest MLB player after 1970 (and in half a century come 2020), arguably the third greatest player ever after Aaron and Ruth, and definitely a Top Fiver.
There is a tentative surgery date but Cash isn’t going public with it.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/.....um=twitter
Ys Guy January 4th, 2013 at 2:49 pm
he didn’t blame fans. where did he blame fans? he just said some don’t like home runs. how is that blame?
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That’s not what he said at all.. he said “a lot of people have told me they think home runs are bad,” which might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and also completely untrue.
A lot of people said this thing, I disagree, but now I’m doing this thing. <– blame for doing the disagreeable thing is being transferred onto the 'a lot of people'
We asked Cashman for less K’s and more contact hitters too…..where is that?
****
I guess Ichiro, Gardner, and Youkillis – - – - idk – - – -
nick, disagree. He heard a whole load of bullspit about the Yanks being nothing but HR hitters. He said on numerous occasions that “this is who we are” and set up a team that could have gone all the way if his best hitters didn’t go cold in the postseason (NOBODY could have foreseen that) and his pitchers didn’t have all kinds of unforseeable problems in the regular season. He also didn’t foresee his fastest player (and singles hitter) being down for the entire season.
He’s now without Swisher, Martin, and for quite a while Rodriguez – not of which was of his making. I don’t think he’s sitting there a happy man. And he does answer to more than the fans.
************
rich, something people have totally forgotten about, and I don’t remember exactly which year it happened, but Cashman made an announcement of working/building from within (in concert with some kind of nonstop NY press about the Yankees buying championships and spending inordinate money.) I think it was right around the time he was given more power. So he made a public statement about putting the skids on spending and needing an all star at every position. Yes, he has spent big money since then on some players, but it hasn’t been out-of-control spending. Now there’s the $$$$ cap that everyone’s been talking about. I don’t think the guy’s perfect but I also know he isn’t the devil that some make him out to be.
blake January 4th, 2013 at 2:49 pm
We asked Cashman for less K’s and more contact hitters too…..where is that?
—————————
Home runs are bad, mmkay.
@StoneLarry
RHP D.J. Mitchell clears waivers, outrighted to Tacoma
–
Wow no one even takes a chance on DJ Mitchell. How the mighty have fallen?
you cannot keep a player on the dl once he’s medically cleared. and the rehab time is also limited.
they can choose to put him on the bench and not play him, but they can’t keep him on the dl or in the minors.
In honor of D.J. Mitchell – - – -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16ZDxDllpE0
@JonHeymanCBS
nolan ryan trying to talk berkman into playing for #rangers. lance tells @dgoold hes still mulling. http://cbsprt.co/WiMP7S
“ah you can always count on Stoney to take exception to pretty much everything
”
I’m not a huge home-run lover. In fact I’m well on record as preferring well-pitched, low-scoring games.
nick, disagree. He heard a whole load of bullspit about the Yanks being nothing but HR hitters. He said on numerous occasions that “this is who we are” and set up a team that could have gone all the way if his best hitters didn’t go cold in the postseason (NOBODY could have foreseen that) and his pitchers didn’t have all kinds of unforseeable problems in the regular season. He also didn’t foresee his fastest player (and singles hitter) being down for the entire season.
He’s now without Swisher, Martin, and for quite a while Rodriguez – not of which was of his making. I don’t think he’s sitting there a happy man. And he does answer to more than the fans.
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None of this has to do with the statement he made, its implications, or tone.
and since arod has the bonuses he would have a grievance against the yankees if they dont play him b/c he has a financial interest in reaching hr goals.
But in recent years, he has become a prevaricating, whining shell of the man he seemed to be.
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It’s because his plan for the farm hasn’t worked out. I remember him saying “People say we haven’t developed pitching that’s not true. We’ve developed pitching. Look at these guys *rattles off names*”
when arod tried to allow the red socks to spread out payment of his salary, the union didnt allow it. why would the union allow arod to take a ‘settlement’ when that would do the same thing?
“he didn’t blame fans. where did he blame fans? he just said some don’t like home runs. how is that blame?”
When he says “a lot of people” is he referring to folks around the water cooler in the corporate offices? But no, he’s not really blaming these people, be they fans or media critics. He’s saying “You wanted this thing that you never really said you wanted but I’m distorting it that way; well, now you’re going to get it and good!”
The party to blame is unidentified in Cashman’s quote. Draw your own conclusions.
“None of this has to do with the statement he made, its implications, or tone.”
And nobody here is in any position to do any more than guess at its implications and tone – unless you heard the statement and there is obvious sarcasm dripping from his lips, in which case I take back what I said.
That quote is classic Cashman. The guy is so arrogant it is sickening. Unfortunately, I think Hal has like 100% faith in the guy and I don’t see Cashman’s job being in jeopardy any time soon. I think it would literally take the Yankees missing the playoffs two seasons in a row for him to possibly lose his job.
Hal is fine with one and done’s in the playoffs as long as he is making decent money. I really don’t think he can properly evaluate a GM or the direction the team is going in overall. I wish they’d sell the team and install a new front office and coaching staff. Everything is just stale. Larry Rothschild can stay though.
And yes, I am pretty much limiting my critique of what Cashman said to what Cashman said.
Nick in SF January 4th, 2013 at 3:00 pm
“he didn’t blame fans. where did he blame fans? he just said some don’t like home runs. how is that blame?”
When he says “a lot of people” is he referring to folks around the water cooler in the corporate offices? But no, he’s not really blaming these people, be they fans or media critics. He’s saying “You wanted this thing that you never really said you wanted but I’m distorting it that way; well, now you’re going to get it and good!”
The party to blame is unidentified in Cashman’s quote. Draw your own conclusions.
=============================================
you guys dont seem to understand the word blame.
there is no hint of blame in what he said.
Nick in SF January 4th, 2013 at 3:02 pm
And yes, I am pretty much limiting my critique of what Cashman said to what Cashman said.
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What a novel concept
nick, usually you’re better than this. Deciding that you can get into his head and know exactly what he wanted to get across is a little much. Since at least some others don’t interpret it the same way, it should tell you there is room for interpretation. The only person who knows for sure what Cashman meant is Cashman.
Against – does Cashman go out and pitch for the minors? How many times did we hear all the glowing reports here about the B’s, Mitchell, and every other pitcher? It’s not Cashman’s fault that they haven’t reached their promise. I’m sure he’s disappointed about it.
Rich in NJ January 4th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
“He’s become very defensive over the yrs.”
Which is understandable. Remember what he said when he got more power after the 2005 season:
“We have the most money, there’s no secret about that,” Cashman said. “If you combine that with the best decision-making process on a consistent basis, then God help the rest of baseball.”
He failed at implementing his own mission statement and he knows it
—————————-
We’re on the same page Rich. His grand plan hasn’t come to fruition and it burns him that it hasn’t. His comments are basically the child that snaps at his friends when a party he plans doesn’t go right.
Okay okay.. he’s not blaming anyone specific, he just sounds like a jackass because he’s saying something completely untrue to account for the team’s current roster construction.
“Hal is fine with one and done’s in the playoffs as long as he is making decent money.”
He still has his job, so that’s probably true, although I want to believe G.Love’s contact that Hal is getting fed up (I suspect Hal listens to Randy, because he is the guy who he believes has made him money, apart from his dad).
But…who would replace Cashman? That’s what concerns me as much. Would they really give a guy, who has a proven track record of building a team (and preferably experience with a smaller payroll) the autonomy to do the job right?
I doubt it. They may want a guy they can pay cheaply and control.
you guys dont seem to understand the word blame.
there is no hint of blame in what he said.
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Sticking it to? Insulting? Chiding? Whatever other word you’d like to use, the story remains the same. Cash being a little brat to the fans.
If you want to go deeper, be generous, and add a smidgen of irony, likely unintentional, then you can say that the 2013 roster, when completed, might end up looking closer to what the “I hate home runs!” strawmen actually wanted: an offense that hit plenty of homers but also got on base other ways and manufactured runs in other ways with more regularity.
Maybe the full seasons of Gardner and Ichiro plus Youk plus Mystery Catcher X plus Mystery RH OF/DH Y and More Nuney will add up to a more balanced offense and Cashman’s Crazy Complainers will be happier too.
“And yes, I am pretty much limiting my critique of what Cashman said to what Cashman said.”
As am I.
so many people get so offended so quickly. grow a set folks.
anybody think he was saying something to the higher ups?
what is untrue? do you know it to be true that people didnt tell him they dont like home runs? you have no way of knowing what people say to cashman.
and he doesnt use that as a reason for the roster construction.
Buster Olney ?@Buster_ESPN
Yankees have claimed 1B-DH Russ Canzler on waivers from the Cleveland Indians. A right-handed hitter, as they’ve been looking for.
lol
new yorkers have a reputation of being tough but you could never tell that by this crowd.
Wow interesting because Chad mentioned him a few nights ago. He was the IL MVP like 2 years ago.
new yorkers have a reputation of being tough but you could never tell that by this crowd.
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New Yorkers call people out when they make petulant remarks. And then make fun of them. Seems what has been done here.
If you think you can just say whatever you want to a NYer and expect them to not respond, good luck!
“so many people get so offended so quickly. grow a set folks.”
My set is nicely intact, thanks. No one is offended. Just calling out a distortion of fact by the GM.
Ys Guy January 4th, 2013 at 3:09 pm
what is untrue? do you know it to be true that people didnt tell him they dont like home runs? you have no way of knowing what people say to cashman.
and he doesnt use that as a reason for the roster construction.
——————-
Because there is no one… NO ONE.. that ‘doesn’t like home runs.’ That makes no sense. The whole point of baseball is to score more runs than your opponent. No one hates home runs.
Which you agree with?:
Ys Guy January 4th, 2013 at 2:47 pm
nobody doesnt like home runs. people dont like everybody swinging for home runs when putting the ball in play is called for.
“new yorkers have a reputation of being tough but you could never tell that by this crowd.”
Right. New Yorkers just listen to BS and nod their heads. You nailed it.
Against – does Cashman go out and pitch for the minors? How many times did we hear all the glowing reports here about the B’s, Mitchell, and every other pitcher? It’s not Cashman’s fault that they haven’t reached their promise. I’m sure he’s disappointed about it.
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Then why did he keep the same regime there for so long down in the minors?
“what is untrue? do you know it to be true that people didnt tell him they dont like home runs? you have no way of knowing what people say to cashman.
and he doesnt use that as a reason for the roster construction.”
Those statements were so ridiculous I didn’t even bother responding to them.
Buster Olney ?@Buster_ESPN
Yankees have claimed 1B-DH Russ Canzler on waivers from the Cleveland Indians. A right-handed hitter, as they’ve been looking for.
http://www.hark.com/clips/qrlnjgplfy-there-she-is
?@YankeeSource
Russ Canzler in a small sample is 12 for 30 off LHP in the majors with 2 HR.
Let’s do our own LoHud poll: Who here does NOT like home runs. Raise your hand.
“Then why did he keep the same regime there for so long down in the minors?”
My guess it that because when he brought guys up before they were ready, he got pasted for it – or I should say the Yankee team got pasted for it, not to mention what it did to the players’ development. So now he may be exercising a lot more caution.
Russ Canzler
Players who win the International League MVP award don’t tend to have successful major league careers. You get a Jim Rice or Jim Thome thrown in there but for the most part the players have had AAAA ability, meaning they’re good enough to kill the minors but not good enough to hit in the big leagues. Canzler was the 2011 MVP winner, hitting .314/.401/.530 for the Durham Bulls as a 25-year-old for the Durham Bulls. Despite that success the Rays never gave him a real shot and he was picked up by the Indians over the winter. He’s not had the same success at Triple-A this season but has managed a respectable .358 wOBA and 122 wRC+ with 22 home runs.
i learned a long long time ago to ignore what coaches and gms say about thier teams. they lie or misinform all the time.
when rex said he had the most talent he’s every had in training camp i laughed.
i actually thought cashman’s statement was funny but probably true.
but who cares?
oh yeah, you guys all care.
“Let’s do our own LoHud poll: Who here does NOT like home runs. Raise your hand.”
I don’t even like scoring runs. I prefer pitching duels resulting in 0-0 games.
Going into 2012:
69: Russ Canzler, Indians INF/OF
Talent: 5
Opportunity: 8
2011 Highest Level: Majors
He probably would’ve been better off had the Rays not traded him to Cleveland this offseason, because his versatility — he’s passable at third, first and the outfield corners — might’ve made him a Joe Maddon fave. Then again the 25-year-old, who’s put up OPSes of .938 and .930 in 2010 and 2011, could make himself useful nto platoons at first and third with lefty-swingers Casey Kotchman and Lonnie Chisenhall.
trisha, there’s always room for bad interpretation, but I think you’re ignoring the actual words he used far more than anyone else in this discussion.
He said three things.
1) ““I know a lot of people have told me they think home runs are bad.” I doubt this is really true, but maybe there really are a lot of crazy people who communicate with Cashman and tell him that they think home runs are bad.
2) “I’m not one of them. ” He likes home runs.
3) “Well, those people are going to get a chance to see what it looks like.” Ok, so what does that mean? Cashman likes home runs, but there will be fewer home runs hit by the Yankees in 2013, so the people he disagrees with about home runs will get to see what fewer home runs looks like. Right? How is this different from saying “I like a team that hits more runs but you wanted fewer home runs and now you’re going to see what fewer home runs look like.” He seems very much to be setting up what people are going to see as a negative; if he meant it at a positive, he really communicated that sentiment poorly.
Is this all code for “I wanted to keep Russell Martin and/or Nick Swisher and/or Raul Ibanez — the departed home run hitters — but I could not do that. Enjoy the Yankees without them!”
Against – does Cashman go out and pitch for the minors? How many times did we hear all the glowing reports here about the B’s, Mitchell, and every other pitcher? It’s not Cashman’s fault that they haven’t reached their promise. I’m sure he’s disappointed about it.
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He hires the people in charge and oversees the whole construction of the team. Forget the Bs just looking a Generation Trey. It’s Cashman’s fault that he hired ppl that didn’t have an understanding on how to develop pitching.
but who cares?
oh yeah, you guys all care.
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Oh yeah, all of us, yourself included, post on a Yankee blog because we don’t care.
Shame – Your question puts me in a bad spot. I like Yankee HRs but ZI don;t like other teams’ HRs. How should I answer? Raise my hand halfway?
Ys Guy January 4th, 2013 at 2:47 pm
nobody doesnt like home runs. people dont like everybody swinging for home runs when putting the ball in play is called for.
Is this all code for “I wanted to keep Russell Martin and/or Nick Swisher and/or Raul Ibanez — the departed home run hitters — but I could not do that. Enjoy the Yankees without them!”
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Probably.
A late-blooming right-handed bat who rose to attention last year as the International League (AAA) MVP while a member of the Tampa Bay system, Russ Canzler was acquired by Cleveland in the off-season. Originally drafted the Cubs back in 2004, Canzler is a versatile player who can handle any corner position, infield or out, though he’s performed best as a first baseman to date.
With a good all-around grasp of the game, Canzler is no slouch, but buyer beware: that award-winning 2011 (.314/.401/.530) he enjoyed with the Durham Bulls was his best at any level of professional play, bolstered in large part by an improved walk rate, but he still struck out almost exactly once per game. Still, as a poor man’s Matt LaPorta, he’s ready for MLB and could provide some much-needed support for a battered Indians offense.
Hassey January 4th, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Shame – Your question puts me in a bad spot. I like Yankee HRs but ZI don;t like other teams’ HRs. How should I answer? Raise my hand halfway?
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Developing an effective poll is more difficult that it looks.
Another poll – raise your hand if you think the 2013 Yankees could field the best AAAA team in history
this morning i couldnt believe how crazy jets fans got about a funny tattoo rex has.
now this afternoon i can’t believe how crazy yankees fans got about something stupid cashman said.
life’s too short to lose it over stuff like that imo.
Y’s Guy, I don’t even know what your complaint is. I already said that Cashman isn’t blaming the fans/critics in his statement, but he’s describing a new situation in which fewer home runs are going to be hit by the Yankees in 2013 and painting it in a negative light.
So, someone is responsible for this new situation. It’s not the fans. Who is it?
Some defend Cashman no matter what he says or does. He was clearly making a wise a** remark. I have no doubt he is frustrated. He should be. So should we.
I did note Chad thought it would be very, very difficult to fill out the team in 2014. I am waiting for those angered by that to accuse him of trolling or being unnecessarily negative.
I prefer bunting contests to home runs
Cash has been doing a lot of tempering expectations with is words over the last couple seasons.
Is this all code for “I wanted to keep Russell Martin and/or Nick Swisher and/or Raul Ibanez — the departed home run hitters — but I could not do that. Enjoy the Yankees without them!”
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Probably.
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And the fans wanted HR hitters that are good contact hitters. Of course, knowing that he couldn’t keep, for example, Swisher, he could have traded him, as some of us suggested, after the 2011 season, just as he could trade Granderson now.
But no, a series of one year plans rules the day.
“Just calling out a distortion of fact by the GM.”
rich, you see it as a distortion of fact. I see it as shorthand. I don’t think he was being literal as much as pointing out all the criticism he took for the Yankees being a team of home run hitters – something he knew before he was told. So now he’s saying to watch what happens when you don’t have all those home runs. The Yankees were a team set up to win it all. I won’t bother going through the litany of unforseen events that helped to derail that because I know you are aware of them.
Anyway, I’m with YF on this. What he say or doesn’t say is of little moment, as long as he delivers on a team set up to win, by the opening of ST.
To change the subject for just a second, I have a question about the definition of “one and done” — I’ve always taken it to mean that a team makes the first round of the postseason, loses, and is done. That is, they made one round and are done. Brief postseason.
The Yanks were not one and done in 2012. They won the ALDS round. They didn’t win any ALCS games, but they at least got to show up (literally show up, at least). In 2011 they were one and done.
Not sure how this phrase can be updated to incorporate the new Wild Card single game. The Rangers were like one half and done? A sad situation in Arlington.
nick, i read it as his hands are tied and thats why they wont have as many home run hitters on next year’s team. whether that’s b/c of martin, swisher and arod or not being able to add home runs.
i think he doesnt want to cross a line and come out and say that this isnt the team he’d like to field, so he made a comment that suggested it without getting specific.
My guess it that because when he brought guys up before they were ready, he got pasted for it – or I should say the Yankee team got pasted for it, not to mention what it did to the players’ development. So now he may be exercising a lot more caution.
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I was talking about the coaches down there
We’re getting crazy in here..? That quote was posted this morning, discussed, and moved on from.
trisha brought it up again to tell us that we can’t interpret his meaning without being Cashman himself, and people disagreed with that assessment… including you to some extent.
I don’t see us being any more crazy than usual.. seems like the standard crazy.
I think Chad should step aside and let Rod Serling be the interim moderator, because this place has entered a strange dimension
“Some defend Cashman no matter what he says or does. He was clearly making a wise a** remark. I have no doubt he is frustrated. He should be. So should we.
Some trash Cashman no matter what he says or does. Funny how that happens.
Not sure how this phrase can be updated to incorporate the new Wild Card single game. The Rangers were like one half and done? A sad situation in Arlington.
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I think they were one and done… and now fans of teams that win the WC but get eliminated in the first(ish) round will have crazy debates about if it’s fair to say they were one and done because they won a WC game.
Jerkface January 4th, 2013 at 12:15 am
Melky started in AA the year he was called up. He was actually called up from AA. There are other OFers on the 40 man & Heathcott is not, so I am not sure Heathcott would get jumped up from AA & added to the 40 man in an emergency situation like Melky.
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I agree with that. Heathcott would need to really force the issue with his play and a couple of guys would have to be hurt for him to get up to the bigs for significant time this year.
I think the more likely scenario when people talk about seeing him in 2013 is as a September callup.
As for Cashman; he has been snippy the last couple of years – starting with his comments after the Soriano signing. I wonder if Levine’s increased involvement has been the cause or if he’s just uppity over people questioning his ability to field a winner on a budget.
Yahoo. Another big minor league bat. Why not as he is more ready than we likely have under Cashman’s 2005 plan for dominance?
In my line of work we often compare what is promised to what is delivered. Do that with Cashman’s 2005 statement and decide how he has used these tools he was given.
“i think he doesnt want to cross a line and come out and say that this isnt the team he’d like to field”
But he pretty much said exactly that, which is why I had to issue a Cashman Fail ruling and show him a yellow card.
In one sense, you’re right that what Cashman said isn’t itself very important, though this stuff about the home runs is laughably silly. But what you just said — “this isn’t the team he’d like to field” — would be very important to a discussion about the Yankees on a Yankee discussion board.
If the GM is no longer able to field the team he’d like to field, that’s kind of interesting and the question of why not becomes paramount, as well as the questions of the ramification of this new reality.
“He was clearly making a wise a** remark.”
I won’t say “he clearly was not” because I’m always a little afraid of anyone who purports to truly know what’s in someone else’s mind. I will leave it the way I started it. I think it was simply his statement of fact.
. I am waiting for those angered by that to accuse him of trolling or being unnecessarily negative.
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Go over to RAB and look for a poster named Ted Nelson. He seems to think 2014 will be business as usual.
I don’t think anyone would trash Cashman had he delivered on his promises. Instead, his leadership, or whatever amount Hal allows him, has led the team to an abyss in 2014.
When does he get responsibility?
whatever Cash said, it was to impress a girl and therefore can be discoounted or altogether ignored
Lost keeps saying Levine is ‘stalking’ Giancarlo but that doesn’t mean he’s going to sign him.
I picture Levine sitting in the bushes with a pair of binoculars.
Maybe Cash is just upset he doesn’t get as much free time as Randy?
to me that was cashman referring to his hands being tied by the $189M.
the irony to me is the people most upset that they are trying to get under $189 seem to be the ones most upset by what he said.
Randy Levine is sitting in the bushes like Cyrano, telling Cash what to say to Stanton
When does he get responsibility?
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When there are games tomorrow…?
AAO,
Despite our moments here, I prefer the civility and thoughtful comments on this board.
RAB did have a nice piece on the 2014 budget. It sure didn’t make me think it was anything like Yankee business as usual.
I said last year the Yankees will be among the least likely team in the next few years to add a good free agent. What happened to the part of Cashman’s quote about having the most money.
We don’t have the most money to spend or the prospects to fill the holes. Again, what part of Cashman’s plan for domination worked?
Cashman’s job is to put a winning team on the field.
In his defense, Hal has put money restrictions on him. Hal is a business man, he is not a baseball fan. Don’t think he loves the Yankees like his father did.
Hassey,
Now that I get. Cashman just keeps saying he can dominate.
Triple, do you think the decisions about the coaching staff in the minors are exclusively his? I really have no idea who makes those decisions.
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I really abhor the word “blame” and try to stay away from it. Usually a whole host of circumstances play into endings with which we are unhappy.
I will say I have little clarity on the Yankee organization and who is running what. It isn’t information that is automatically part of my birthright, but when the Boss was at the helm, I always knew what to expect.
And so I do what I do relatively well – wait and watch.
YS guy,
That may well be what Cashman was saying, but why act as if the fans wanted a less potent offense? I do think he is unhappy and frustrated. Bowden said in November Cashman had by far the hardest job this off season. I agree.
I will add, however, he played an important role in being in whatever position they are in today.
Here are my issues with Cashman:
1. His instant buyer’s remorse for every deal he makes. Which is fine I suppose for him to have, but there’s no need to go public and tell your fan base that you think you screwed up before the ink is dry on the contract or trade papers. Probably makes the player you just got feel great too, knowing that your GM regrets the deal almost immediately after making it.
2. The schizophrenic organizational philosophy. If you’re going to try to cut payroll and compete then you need to trust your prospects to play a role on the 25 man roster and not just serve as trade chips. Cashman wants to get payroll down, which is fine, but still wants to rely on veterans – it doesn’t work that way. He never flexed his muscle internationally and now he can’t even if he wanted to. Personally I’m still hoping the Yankees take the cuban short stop once he turns 23 and his contract no longer counts against what the team can spend internationally.
3. If you don’t think that the players you’re developing can help your club as players then you need to evaluate the people you have in charge of developing those players. He’s started that by replacing Nardi with Gil Patterson, but if you don’t think that David Adams or Corban Joseph or Zoilio Almonte or Abe Almonte can help, then that falls on the GM to replace the people who are failing to develop them. Cash has been slow in that regard.
4. Lack of creativity. He’s been doing the same job for over 15 years; the problem is that his tools have now changed but his approach hasn’t. Another GM, when confronted with the realities of the new budget structure for the club, would explore dealing his impending free agents such as Cano, Granderson, Hughes and Logan for controllable long term assets; Brian on the other hand has shown no interest in doing this.
Specifically regarding the homerun quote – no we don’t hate homeruns, we just are smart enough to realize that a .200 hitter who hits 40 homeruns isn’t a good thing.
I believe Levine has Dickerson acting as his point man in the Stanton stalking.
Sorry Chip.
Chip,
I agree with every word.