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MLB and MLBPA react to Hall of Fame results

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 09, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Statement from Major League Baseball
“Major League Baseball recognizes that election to the Hall of Fame is our game’s most extraordinary individual honor. Achieving enshrinement in Cooperstown is difficult, as it should be, and there have been seven other years when no one was elected by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America. While this year did not produce an electee, there are many worthy candidates who will merit consideration in the future. We respect both the longstanding process that the Hall of Fame has in place and the role of the BBWAA, whose members have voted in the Hall of Fame’s elections since 1936.”

Statement from MLB Players Association executive director Michael Weiner
“Today’s news that those members of the BBWAA afforded the privilege of casting ballots failed to elect even a single player to the Hall of Fame is unfortunate, if not sad. Those empowered to help the Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum document the history of the game failed to recognize the contributions of several Hall of Fame worthy players. To ignore the historic accomplishments of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, for example, is hard to justify. Moreover, to penalize players exonerated in legal proceedings — and others never even implicated — is simply unfair. The Hall of Fame is supposed to be for the best players to have ever played the game. Several such players were denied access to the Hall today. Hopefully this will be rectified by future voting.”

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192 Responses to “MLB and MLBPA react to Hall of Fame results”

  1. blake January 9th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    I think Bernie is a borderline candidate….his peak was HOF level but he didn’t sustain it long……but for guys like Jim Rice, Dawson, and Puckett to be in and Bernie not even get the 5% to stay on the ballot shows 2 things IMO 1) that the system is broken 2) that Yankee bias does exist.

  2. Warning Track Power January 9th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    If the writers really cared about the game, they would focus all of their attention to exposing
    Bud Selig and his office for the liars they are and how they decided to look the other way when players were clearly using PED’s for all those years.

  3. Shame Spencer January 9th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    I know it’s hard to compare Bernie and Mattingly.. but I’m just surprised that a guy who sustained high production for longer received less votes.

  4. DONNYBROOK January 9th, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Schilling’s vote total shows a lotta politicing goes on.

  5. Mike in Harrisburg January 9th, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Is this enough to warrant changes to the way the system works? How would that even happen? Who has authority over the process?

  6. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Schilling’s vote total shows a lotta politicing goes on.

    Oh so he didn’t get more votes because he’s a republican or…. ? Just figured they didn’t like his video game or something.

    What about Tim Raines? Is it his politics, sexuality or something else? Does he maybe have bad taste in movies or television or something?

  7. The Return of Stoneburner January 9th, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    blake January 9th, 2013 at 3:42 pm
    Josh Norris ?@jnorris427
    If, for whatever reason, you’re thinking about future #Yankees LHRPs, here’s a Francisco Rondon K from last year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbMNbc5Ic4

    *****

    Just needs to get his walks under control – – – -

  8. The Return of Stoneburner January 9th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    the lawsuits that could follow – - – -

  9. Nick in SF January 9th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Mike Piazza is, as far as I know, the only MLB player to be named in the title of a Belle & Sebastian song. This alone should warrant election to the Hall of Fame.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzjYRWRKb_Y

    So what is really at play here? Clearly Piazza is being judged by his suspicious association with one Roger Clemens. You may recall the incident: Piazza, in a fit of what looked very much like steroid-induced rage, swung his bat with the clear intent of hurling its jagged shard (after making contact with the baseball) in the direction of Clemens, defenseless after having just thrown a pitch. It’s a minor miracle that our Roger wasn’t badly injured that day.

    Sorry, Mike Piazza, but people were watching you that day and people have memories.

  10. Truth January 9th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Can someone please explain the value of WAR, if you think that it is a good statistic. And if you have any links supporting that it is a good statistic too. Thanks.

  11. Warning Track Power January 9th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Mike in Harrisburg January 9th, 2013 at 3:52 pm
    Is this enough to warrant changes to the way the system works? How would that even happen? Who has authority over the process?
    ———————————————————————————————-
    As of right now the writers are under the impression they have all the power
    and nobody can touch them.
    They just set off a storm that will have major repercussions again them.
    The writers should have checked their own ego and the door before leaving the ballots
    100% empty.

  12. austinmac January 9th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Selig and his holier than thou attitude does need to be addressed since he pitched the steroid boys as the face of baseball. If he didn’t know is he not too stupid to be commissioner? Did you realize he is paid $25M/yr? What a country.

  13. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Nick,

    No way, clearly Piazza missed out because there were rumors 10 years ago that he might be gay

  14. bruceb January 9th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Players Association blaming the writers for not electing their PED-tainted members into the Hall of Fame. Talk about ironic.

  15. ac1 January 9th, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    Bud probably has to stop himself from laughing when he makes these holier than thou comments about steroids.

  16. austinmac January 9th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    It is extraordinarily difficult for a public figure such as a major league player to sue for libel or slander. They must prove knowledge of falsity and malice. That is a difficult burden to prove. The reporter can say he believed the rumors he heard to dispute both elements.

  17. ac1 January 9th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Players Association blaming the writers for not electing their PED-tainted members into the Hall of Fame. Talk about ironic.
    ___

    I think they are talking about Biggio and Piazza. Not Bonds and Clemens…

  18. MoRings42 January 9th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    See kids, cheaters don’t win in the end… and if you’re friends cheating, he may take you down with him.

  19. austinmac January 9th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    Bruceb,

    Good point.

  20. chicken little January 9th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    I think there is something wrong with the system when the reporters who vote for the HOF make themselves the story. Pretty much every reporter who voted (or didn’t vote) has spent the past month writing articles explaining his/her vote. Enough already. Let your vote stand for itself. And if you are going to write an article, save yourself the embarassment — there is no justification for not voting for a worthy candidate simply because he can’t prove he didn’t take steroids (and the sole link to steriods is that he played in the “steriod era”). I can’t prove I didn’t take steriods either. Obviously, there are players who took steriods who never were linked to steriods. If that is going to be the criteria, then just exclude everyone who played from 1990-2010.

  21. bruceb January 9th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    I think they are talking about Biggio and Piazza. Not Bonds and Clemens…

    Not the case, and I quote: “To ignore the historic accomplishments of Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, for example, is hard to justify.”

    No, It’s actually very easy. They cheated the sport and the fans and were paid fortunes for it. Now they want recognition too? You must be joking.

  22. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    If that is going to be the criteria, then just exclude everyone who played from 1990-2010.

    That’s exactly what they are doing

  23. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    No, It’s actually very easy. They cheated the sport and the fans and were paid fortunes for it. Now they want recognition too? You must be joking.

    Yet you can’t actually prove that they did.

  24. PacoDooley January 9th, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    MLBPA can only blame themselves for this mess. They fought like idiots to prevent any PED testing and so when a player like Piazza is kept out because of rumor etc. they cannot really complain.

    MLB is also complicit since they appear to have ignored all evidence as long as the going was good.

  25. Nick in SF January 9th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    Next you’re going to tell me that Eric Gagne won’t make it either! :mad:

  26. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    I dont see how i was cheated out of anything when I got to watch the best hitter of all time destroy pitchers & one of the best pitchers of all time be a scary boss?

  27. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    None of these cheaters are getting in ever, especially the admitted cheaters.

  28. bruceb January 9th, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    I dont see how i was cheated out of anything when I got to watch the best hitter of all time destroy pitchers & one of the best pitchers of all time be a scary boss?

    Because it was all a fraud. They weren’t doing it through sheer talent and determination; they were given a helping hand by an illegal substance.

    It’s like convincing yourself that a fake portrait of the Mona Lisa is as good as the real thing.

  29. ac1 January 9th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    I agree MLBPA has no one to blame but themselves, but that doesn’t mean it is fair for someone with no association with roids to not get in when the numbers are more than enough.

  30. Tyler January 9th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    MoRings42 January 9th, 2013 at 4:01 pm
    See kids, cheaters don’t win in the end… and if you’re friends cheating, he may take you down with him.
    ————————————————————–

    Understood but there are some not so nice people currently in the HOF who don’t exactly serve as great role models for the youth.

  31. ConcernedCitizen January 9th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    Just putting things in perspective — the majority of my life, and many other baseball fans, has taken place in 1990 – 2010. Taking my kid to Cooperstown will be fun. “Dad, do you know any of these people?” “No, I sure don’t!”

  32. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    Because it was all a fraud. They weren’t doing it through sheer talent and determination; they were given a helping hand by an illegal substance.

    Nope doesn’t matter. Even if you could prove they took steroids and that they made a difference in their performance (you can’t) it wouldn’t make a difference. Clemens and Bonds were still two of the best players of all time.

  33. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Because it was all a fraud. They weren’t doing it through sheer talent and determination; they were given a helping hand by an illegal substance.

    It’s like convincing yourself that a fake portrait of the Mona Lisa is as good as the real thing.

    Argument doesn’t make sense to me. Here is why: both guys had to work out to gain anything from any drugs they did or did not take. They still had to play the game. They still had to compete. It was not fraud at all. It is nothing more than advances in medical, exercise, or performance technology. Clemens did it with a lower mound.

    If you are appreciating the art of the mona lisa, then a replica or one that is even better due to some unnatural element is just as valuable as art.

    All natural means absolutely dick to me unless you’re talking about artisinal cheeses or strippers.

  34. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Burden of proof is on the players because they broke the law.

  35. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    No, It’s actually very easy. They cheated the sport and the fans and were paid fortunes for it.

    ———————–

    They cheated in a sport that has always had cheating. Steroids are just the latest form of it.

  36. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    Rooting for cheaters to receive accolades, says something about your character.

  37. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    Steroids are not even cheating. They do not break the rules of the game of baseball. They merely attempt to unlock the maximum potential of human athleticism, which I think is one of the points of sport.

    Its not like Clemens threw ceramic balls full of angry bees or Bonds used an aluminum bat.

  38. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:07 pm
    None of these cheaters are getting in ever, especially the admitted cheaters.

    —————————–

    I can’t wait for someone in the hall get outed.

  39. Tyler January 9th, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    Just as interesting to me is the people who voted for David Wells and Kenny Lofton, lol. Lofton was definitely a good player but who sits down with their ballot and thinks that Kenny Lofton deserves to be in the HOF?

  40. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:17 pm
    Rooting for cheaters to receive accolades, says something about your character.

    ——————————-

    But isn’t that what fans support. Aren’t they the ones that want the coach and players to gain ever edge they can when it comes to competing.

  41. blake January 9th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    “Because it was all a fraud. They weren’t doing it through sheer talent and determination; they were given a helping hand by an illegal substance”

    wonder how many HR’s Hank Aaron would have hit if he hadn’t used amphetamines to give his late 30′s body a little energy?

  42. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    This is really pathetic.

  43. The Return of Stoneburner January 9th, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    It is extraordinarily difficult for a public figure such as a major league player to sue for libel or slander. They must prove knowledge of falsity and malice. That is a difficult burden to prove. The reporter can say he believed the rumors he heard to dispute both elements.

    *********

    Malice can possibly be established with the way these reporters are sounding – - – -

    The reasonableness that they are relying on can get you possibly past a motion to dismiss in federal court and summary judgment in state and federal – - – -

    At the very least – pretrial – depositions can make certain reporters squirm – - – -

  44. blake January 9th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    .301 .402 .643 1.045

    wonder if Hank could have hit that at age 39 without greenies?

  45. ConcernedCitizen January 9th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Whoever compared the Baseball HOF to the Rock ‘n Roll HOF nailed it. The Hall will also devolve into an obscure Internet argument, and people will stop paying attention to the annual inductees, or lack thereof. I don’t see how you’d avoid having this exact same debate on an annual basis for the next few decades.

  46. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Yeah, everyone’s a criminal so that makes crime OK

  47. bruceb January 9th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Bernie Madoff is serving 150 years for cheating the public.

    But we should honor Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens with election to the Hall of Fame for doing the same?

    Really?

  48. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    The ethics of these fans, I think I need to go take a shower after reading this tripe.

  49. blake January 9th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    I’m glad the game is clean…..I don’t condone steroid use (although if Arod wanted to take some I wouldn’t be opposed)…..however I get very annoyed at the how the whole issue is handled by the media

  50. Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West January 9th, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    Heres my take on the steroid era.

    Steroids dont make your bat speed faster or your eyes see better. Neither do they enhance those things. Even with steroids you need to work hard and have talent. If someone used steroids to create offense then who cares. MLB is a show, it’s there to entertain. Offense entertains and i couldnt give two craps about how the offense was gained. Everyone has the ability to obtain steriods. It’s not like only some people could do it. Some people choose not to. If you can prove to me that Babe Ruth’s drug an alcohol abuse werent stimulants that helped him on the field or that “greenies” and “yellow jackets” werent used as enhancers for the last 40 or 50 years than maybe i”ll rethink my stance on allowing a steroid user in the hall. Also, tobacco use and caffeine are enhancers too. I believe Barry Bonds was the best pure hitter ever…. aside from that, his ability to see the ball and take walks should get him on that alone.

  51. blake January 9th, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    “Yeah, everyone’s a criminal so that makes crime OK”

    course not…..but punishing some criminals and not others isn’t…..

  52. Mike in Harrisburg January 9th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    Older guy in my office said none of the guys on the ballot should be voted in. I asked him about the greenies era, the color barrier, and whether Ty Cobb should have gotten elected despite being a rabid anti-semite. Didn’t have much of an counter-argument. I think age and nostalgia plays no small part too.

  53. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    blake January 9th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
    “Because it was all a fraud. They weren’t doing it through sheer talent and determination; they were given a helping hand by an illegal substance”

    wonder how many HR’s Hank Aaron would have hit if he hadn’t used amphetamines to give his late 30?s body a little energy?

    ——————————–

    Who knows what else he took

  54. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:23 pm
    The ethics of these fans, I think I need to go take a shower after reading this tripe.

    ——————————

    What tripe? It’s not something that is out of left field.

  55. mick January 9th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    this society is falling apart…

  56. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    But punishing some criminals some of the time is a start.

  57. G. Love January 9th, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    Guys, steroids helped. Look at how power numbers have plummeted since the testing went into place. There’s a reason why it takes a true power hitter 2 seasons to hit 60HR as opposed to one now. It’s not because the pitching is better or the mound was raised. It’s because the performance enhancing substances that generated those numbers are mostly out of the game.

    We’re talking steroids here. Not HGH or Testosterone. It’s clear that guys who used steroids were able to put up numbers never seen before in the game.

    If they didn’t help contribute to the numbers than why have the power numbers gone down?

  58. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    Condoning cheating, rooting for false heroes, false equivalencies, a desire to reward illegal activity…

    this is all out of left field.

  59. mick January 9th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    anything goes today….but been that way for awhile now…go enjoy the game.
    who really cares about the HOF?

  60. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    .301 .402 .643 1.045

    wonder if Hank could have hit that at age 39 without greenies?

    I wonder what Ruth’s numbers would be if he wasn’t playing in a segregated league.

    The fact of the matter is, you vote for the top players in an era and you can’t really compare them to other players in other eras. So for his era where only white people were allowed to play in MLB Babe Ruth was the best player. For Hank Aaron’s era where amphetamines were legal and widely used he was one of the best players. For Barry Bonds’ era where steroids were widely used he was easily the best player. Not to mention medical advances, better training, etc. A lot of players years ago had to get jobs in the offseason. Does that mean we should penalize Derek Jeter when his vote comes up because he didn’t have to work at Walmart during the winter and could spend that time training?

    Should we simply refuse to elect any player from the steroid era into the hall of fame? We can’t be 100% that any guy is clean. No, you acknowledge that it was an era of baseball in which steroids were commonly used and accept it. The top 5% or whatever of players get into the hall of fame regardless

  61. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Historical revisionism. That’s what fanhood has come to. I really need to take a nice long shower.

  62. RadioKev January 9th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Blake,

    The Bernie/Rice comp is on the money. Rice had more HRs, but their OPS is just about the same. Bernie performed way better in the postseason, but had a much larger sample size. Bernie also played during the steroid era… Apparently the knife doesn’t cut both ways.

  63. Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West January 9th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE

    Sammy Sosa and Mark Mcgwire saved the game of baseball.

  64. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    bruceb January 9th, 2013 at 4:23 pm
    Bernie Madoff is serving 150 years for cheating the public.

    But we should honor Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens with election to the Hall of Fame for doing the same?

    Really?

    —————–

    The Hall has honored cocaine users, wife beaters, promiscuous men, guys who were klan members, etc. But now they won’t let in steroid users despite the game always having some form of cheating throughout it’s history. Does that make sense

  65. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    Well maybe this crop of writers wants to raise its moral standards and you want to fight it?

  66. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    “Burden of proof is on the players because they broke the law.”

    They didn’t break any law, and even if for the sake of argument they had, as long as we are using a criminal law analogy, the burden of proof is always on the accuser.

  67. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    Michelle. Hyperbole.

  68. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    Go ahead and use steroids, tell a police officer and see what happens.

  69. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    “If they didn’t help contribute to the numbers than why have the power numbers gone down?”

    Maybe they did, but why did they help hitters more than pitchers?

  70. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    “Go ahead and use steroids, tell a police officer and see what happens.”

    First, you need a lawful search and seizure, but even assuming that there was, a prescription would send them on their way.

  71. Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West January 9th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE

    really? without them after the strike, no one would have come to games…..baseball was dead.

  72. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    All sports athletes need to work out using naturally existing materials in nature, as well as completely unprocessed/home grown vegetables & organic meat only. Anything else, and they are clearly cheating.

  73. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Oh so these were prescription drugs. Ok.

  74. CompassRosy January 9th, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Edgar Martinez — 204 votes (35.9%) – VERY GOOD CAREER, BUT HE WAS MOSTLY A DH/A PLAYER WHO BARELY HAD TO PLAY THE FIELD, SO NOT A HOF.

    ====

    I guess you would “disqualify” any and all AL pitchers – since they don’t bat.

    As for “mostly a DH”…
    yeah, mostly enough that, each year the best DH receives The Edgar Martinez Award

    ;)

  75. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    Well maybe they should suit up Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa to go save the NHL.

  76. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    Prove to me that steroids benefited players (still unproven) and prove to me that a player used steroids (you can’t actually do so for any player on the ballot except for those that have admitted to it). Then we can begin having a conversation about not voting for that player. Until that happens we shouldn’t even discuss it.

  77. bruceb January 9th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    Should we simply refuse to elect any player from the steroid era into the hall of fame? We can’t be 100% that any guy is clean. No, you acknowledge that it was an era of baseball in which steroids were commonly used and accept it. The top 5% or whatever of players get into the hall of fame regardless.

    I agree that we can’t be certain who did and who did not cheat. And I believe that Mike Piazza should make the HOF, because he never actually failed a drugs test. But I’m sorry, I could never ever support a vote for either Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens.

    Not only are they proven (Bonds admitted it and the evidence is overwhelming in the case of Clemens) cheats but they are serial liars too. They didn’t even have the decency to hold up their hands and say: “OK, so we took PEDs. It was wrong but we didn’t do it for financial reasons; we did it to extend our playing career for as long as possible because we love the game.”

  78. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:33 pm
    Condoning cheating, rooting for false heroes, false equivalencies, a desire to reward illegal activity…

    ———————-

    That’s the way it has always been. It’s the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Morality.

  79. Barry January 9th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    Derek first ballot and by acclamation. Same with Mo. The comparisons to Cobb are absurd. Not a nice guy but his level of play unaffected by personal shortcomins. Ruth clearly a good guy with some poor habits. Had he trained probably been even better. Not the same as men who cheated themselves and their colleagues for money and advantage. Well, they got the money. No honor. The voting is not broken. It should be celebrated by all true sport fans. Any sport. See Lance Armstrong as reference.

  80. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    Someone else brings up a great point. Baseball writers are so very quick to judge guys not yet elected, but will not name names of the people they hint drop about being steroid users already in the hall/in the sport.

    Sportswriters, we don’t need their scum.

  81. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    “Oh so these were prescription drugs. Ok.”

    As if doctor-shopping won’t yield some that will write scripts for anything for a price. Michael Jackson would probably disagree, and what he got was far more damaging than any steroid.

  82. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    Derek first ballot and by acclamation. Same with Mo.

    Nope, they played in the steroid era therefore we must assume they did steroids too. Can’t vote for either one

  83. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    That’s right, Barry.

    This place is a cesspool. Is it because it is online and dehumanized or do these unethical folks roam free?

  84. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    Nope, they played in the steroid era therefore we must assume they did steroids too. Can’t vote for either one

    They also played on the same team as known or suspected PED users, clubhouse culture means they are involved.

  85. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    Sportswriters are scum for trying to uphold integrity? That’s insane.

  86. blake January 9th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    “If they didn’t help contribute to the numbers than why have the power numbers gone down?”

    I think its a combination of things….including steroids…..but also that pitchers are better and hitters are worse with worse approaches.

  87. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    “Derek first ballot and by acclamation. Same with Mo.”

    Every team’s fans have their sacred cows. We can’t know with metaphysical certainty about anyone, so why bother?

  88. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Not only are they proven (Bonds admitted it and the evidence is overwhelming in the case of Clemens) cheats but they are serial liars too.

    When did Bonds admit it? And if the evidence is overwhelming in Clemens’ case why was he found not guilty in a court of law? And you have yet to prove that steroids actually improve a player’s performance. And even if you could prove all of that it still doesn’t matter because steroids were available to every player in that era and Clemens/Bonds were still two of the best players.

    There is literally no logical argument that keeps Bonds and Clemens out of the hall of fame.

  89. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Sportswriters are scum for trying to uphold integrity? That’s insane.

    They protect known (to them) users in the hall, did not do anything about steroids while it was happening.

  90. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    This isn’t about metaphysics though. It’s about cheaters.

  91. blake January 9th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    kev,

    OPS+ Bernie: 125, RIce: 128, Puckett 124, Dawson 119.

  92. RadioKev January 9th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:17 pm
    Steroids are not even cheating. They do not break the rules of the game of baseball. They merely attempt to unlock the maximum potential of human athleticism, which I think is one of the points of sport.

    Its not like Clemens threw ceramic balls full of angry bees or Bonds used an aluminum bat.
    ————-

    They’re cheating since they’re not legal in the game. They don’t break a principle of the game, but to say it isn’t cheating isn’t the same. It’s an unfair advantage against clean players.

    I think there is an interesting point to say that these players are so dedicated to the game; they want to be in absolute peak physical condition — unlike Babe Ruth. What do we say to that argument?

  93. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    “This isn’t about metaphysics though. It’s about cheaters.”

    So list all the cheaters and all the non-cheaters with supporting evidence.

  94. Shame Spencer January 9th, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    “If they didn’t help contribute to the numbers than why have the power numbers gone down?”

    Maybe they did, but why did they help hitters more than pitchers?

    ——————-

    Might not be the case actually.. it’s very likely pitchers using helped the power numbers just as much. I’m not 100% on this, but if a ball is coming at you faster and you, as a hitter are stronger, the ball is probably going to go farther.

  95. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:37 pm
    Well maybe this crop of writers wants to raise its moral standards and you want to fight it?’

    ————————

    Many of these same writers were like seals clapping and cheering for every HR when the game was at it’s peak.

  96. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    I think there is an interesting point to say that these players are so dedicated to the game; they want to be in absolute peak physical condition — unlike Babe Ruth. What do we say to that argument?

    Doing steroids means taking tremendous legal, professional, and health risks in order to benefit your team and help them win. Thus PED users are the greatest, best team players.

  97. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    Yeah so one criminal pulls the trigger and slaughters an innocent person. Nobody caught him so say nothing about the next gunslinger who comes along and commits a crime.

    No ethics here. Is it a regional thing?

    We need to hear from the Midwest or the South.

  98. Mike in Harrisburg January 9th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    You can really get carried away with this debate. I’d contend cortisone has enhanced far more performances than steroids ever did.

  99. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    You still have to make contact, Shame, and then there is the supposed endurance and recovery issues.

  100. blake January 9th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    “Ruth clearly a good guy with some poor habits. Had he trained probably been even better. Not the same as men who cheated themselves and their colleagues for money and advantage.”

    a guy hitting more homers than entire teams isn’t curious at all?

  101. RadioKev January 9th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Consider that Bernie’s OPS+ is potentially lower due to a potentially higher league average OPS because of steroid use…

  102. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    I’d contend cortisone has enhanced far more performances than steroids ever did.

    Which is funny because cortisone IS a steroid.

  103. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    “Yeah so one criminal pulls the trigger and slaughters an innocent person. Nobody caught him so say nothing about the next gunslinger who comes along and commits a crime.”

    Again, there is a process to convict all those involved. What is the baseball equivalent of due process under law?

  104. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    Why are steroids even banned in the first place? Or amphetamines for that matter? It seems extremely arbitrary to me. Is creatine banned by baseball? Protein shakes? They help build muscle. What about caffeine?

  105. Shame Spencer January 9th, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    When did Bonds admit it?

    —————–

    Bonds said he used the clear but didn’t know it was a steroid.

    IMO, I understand not inducting admitted users on the first ballot to distinguish them… but I didn’t think I’d see everyone from the generation locked out due to nothing more than suspicion.

    Based on my above statement, Clemens’ case gets a bit more murky… but again, I’m pretty shocked they didn’t induct anyone from that class of players. Personally, I think Glavin and a couple of those other pitchers coming up on next year’s ballot probably used something. So it’ll be interesting to see if Clemens is the only pitcher blackballed under suspicion or not.

  106. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    Players can drink 5 hour energy by the bucket but can’t take a pill designed to help energy levels. Ok, Baseball.

  107. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    why are these players not relying on their body’s natural energy creators?!?!

  108. Shame Spencer January 9th, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    You still have to make contact, Shame, and then there is the supposed endurance and recovery issues.

    —————–

    I was just saying it in response to your reply asking why it didn’t help pitchers as much.. it very well could have. First of all, there were a LOT of good pitchers in the steroid era despite the insane power numbers. Also, I’d bet that a lot of not so great pitchers juiced up and ended up throwing pretty hard (albeit not well) contributing the power numbers. These are all just personal theories not supported by fact though.. just personal supposition. *shrugs*

  109. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    You guys can continue to cry and bend the debate and use semantics and fancy legalese but these heros of yours and your kids, not getting in. They are not getting in. Allow me to repeat that one more time. They will not get into the HOF. Not ever.

  110. bruceb January 9th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    Patrick:

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) March 23, 2011
    Barry Bonds admits using steroids during his baseball career, his lawyer told a jury Tuesday. The catch is that Bonds’ personal trainer misled him into believing he was taking flax seed oil and arthritis cream.

    Anyone who thinks either Bonds or Clemens did not take steroids/PEDs probably believed O.J. Simpson was innocent.

  111. Mike in Harrisburg January 9th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    Good point Jerkface! It’s an absurdity when you give it some thought.

  112. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    “You guys can continue to cry and bend the debate and use semantics and fancy legalese but these heros of yours and your kids, not getting in. They are not getting in. Allow me to repeat that one more time. They will not get into the HOF. Not ever.”

    Due process is about semantics? Who knew?

  113. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    never ever ever ever ever

    take a big gulp and swallow it.

  114. Ys Guy January 9th, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    it is a known fact and an admitted fact that bonds took steroids. there is no debate about that.

    bonds doesnt claim to have not taken them, rather that he unknowingly took them, which makes no difference.

  115. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    “never ever ever ever ever

    take a big gulp and swallow it.”

    Try to confine the conversation to baseball.

  116. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    Flax seed oil. What a loser chump.

  117. Mike in Harrisburg January 9th, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    @FiretheUMPIRE just out of curiosity are you over 50?

  118. FiretheUMPIRE January 9th, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    coward, phony, piece of trash.

  119. Patrick January 9th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) March 23, 2011
    Barry Bonds admits using steroids during his baseball career, his lawyer told a jury Tuesday. The catch is that Bonds’ personal trainer misled him into believing he was taking flax seed oil and arthritis cream.

    Anyone who thinks either Bonds or Clemens did not take steroids/PEDs probably believed O.J. Simpson was innocent.

    Thanks for the info blake, I forgot that he admitted to using the clear (in ignorance according to him).

    Trust me, I’m not naive enough to think either guy didn’t take steroids. But there is no way to prove either guy actually broke MLB rules. There is also no way to prove what they did actually helped them play baseball. Finally we have to acknowledge that any drugs they might have done were commonly used in the era they played in. Steroids were available to everyone so everyone was on an even playing field.

  120. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    @RiverAveBlues: Yankees rank 11th in Baseball America’s preliminary farm system rankings http://t.co/EqgRM6U6

  121. JM January 9th, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    http://www.yesnetwork.com/news.....;oid=36019

    Notice he says “this year.” I still think Bonds and Clemens will eventually get in. And it’s really a shame about Piazza, who deserved to be a first ballot HOF-er.

  122. Ys Guy January 9th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    im good with bonds and clemens (and arod) not gettting until or unless there is some agreement as to how to allow known cheaters into the hall.

    but i feel that piazza and biggio especially should be allowed in because there is no evidence against them.

  123. Shame Spencer January 9th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    It’s also a matter of proving when exactly they took steroids and if they were banned by baseball at that time… I dunno how these things work though. If it’s illegal on a federal level and not explicitly against the rules of the game, is it implicitly illegal in terms of the game?

  124. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    Good year on the farm and the Yanks could have a top 5 system

  125. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    “Good year on the farm and the Yanks could have a top 5 system”

    Then they can make a more credible play for Stanton, Upton, etc.

  126. Shame Spencer January 9th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    JM January 9th, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    http://www.yesnetwork.com/news…..;oid=36019

    Notice he says “this year.” I still think Bonds and Clemens will eventually get in. And it’s really a shame about Piazza, who deserved to be a first ballot HOF-er.

    ——————-

    The problem is keeping guys like them on the ballot bumps others off.. I can’t wait to see how they handle other pitchers besides Clemens who should be suspect of using. Schilling didn’t make it this year and there’s been some rumblings of him being a possible user. Do they do the same to guys like Maddox and Glavin? Has anyone every suspected Mussina?

  127. Shame Spencer January 9th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    I think they should just take the entire ‘morality’ thing out of the HoF voting. Kind of cleans up this entire mess.

  128. tomingeorgia January 9th, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    Mea culpa.

    What was it that was found in McGwire’s locker? Was it called “Andro”? If it was, then I also took it while it was legal. I’d come off 25 years of desks and airplanes, and moved into a very physical job, with much younger guys under my leadership. It came in a little aerosol can, one squirt under the tongue every day. It worked, but only accompanied by the labor I was doing. More tone, more muscle mass, more strength. At age 48, I really was itbsoml. Ladies like the results, too. I’d take it again, but it’s probably too late!

    Anyway, I would have rounded up the usual suspects and voted most of them in. Whether or not those guys were using, they could hit, catch and run with anyone who has ever played the game, and should be in the HOF.

  129. Ys Guy January 9th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    Androstenedione
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Androstenedione (also known as 4-androstenedione and 17-ketoestosterone) is a 19-carbon steroid hormone produced in the adrenal glands and the gonads as an intermediate step in the biochemical pathway that produces the androgen testosterone and the estrogens estrone and estradiol.

  130. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    “Has anyone every suspected Mussina?”

    Only for being overly idiosyncratic.

  131. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    “Then they can make a more credible play for Stanton, Upton, etc.”

    Unless they have been traded to a new team that won’t trade them

  132. JM January 9th, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    Just declare 1990 to whenever the steroid era and then induct the best players of that era.

    There has always been cheating in baseball. What about pitchers who threw spitballs, or scuffed the baseball?

  133. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    “Unless they have been traded to a new team that won’t trade them”

    Hope is probably going to become increasingly important to Yankee fans, blake!

  134. Barry January 9th, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    The color barrier did not make Ruth better. It denied other individuals opportunity. And, he wasn’t the denier. A false argument.

  135. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Rich in NJ says:
    January 9, 2013 at 5:15 pm
    “Unless they have been traded to a new team that won’t trade them”

    Hope is probably going to become increasingly important to Yankee fans, blake!

    True….heck we may not want to even trade these guys in a year

  136. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    The color barrier did not make Ruth better.

    Yes it did. Reduced competition. You put an MLB player on a college team and he’ll out perform what he would do vs even competition.

  137. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    “Just declare 1990 to whenever the steroid era and then induct the best players of that era.”

    That’s way too simple and makes way too much sense

  138. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    “There has always been cheating in baseball. What about pitchers who threw spitballs, or scuffed the baseball?”

    Baseball used to have a sense of humor about cheating:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPUDhIPpAnA

  139. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    “The color barrier did not make Ruth better. It denied other individuals opportunity. And, he wasn’t the denier. A false argument.”

    Sure it did ….the competiton wasn’t near bati it is today…..the monkey testosterone probably helped too

  140. tomingeorgia January 9th, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Ys,
    and it was legal and available over the counter down at the pharmacy. I took it, it worked. Am I bad, even if it enabled me to plant 13 6′ white pines in a day with pick and shovel?

  141. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    They are not getting in. Allow me to repeat that one more time. They will not get into the HOF. Not ever.

    ——————–

    Until someone in the hall gets outed and then they will all get in.

  142. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    the monkey testosterone probably helped too’

    ————————-

    Now now blake we all know Ruth did it in hot dogs and beer.

  143. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    “Now now blake we all know Ruth did it in hot dogs and beer.”

    Of course!

  144. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Listening to this lady describe why she voted for Shawn Green and not Tim Raines is hilarious

  145. bruceb January 9th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Tomingeorgia,

    You are forgiven…but I’m still not voting you into the Hall of Fame!

  146. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    on*

  147. austinmac January 9th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Tom,

    You are very bad.

    Actually, I remember the andro. I never considered improper since it was being sold at the health food stores. Didn’t Mc Guire let reporters see his to get them off the real steroid search?

  148. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    JM January 9th, 2013 at 5:14 pm
    Just declare 1990 to whenever the steroid era and then induct the best players of that era.

    ———————-

    Go back farther than 1990

  149. Ys Guy January 9th, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    idk about the legality of andro at the time mcgwire used it. however to me mcgwire is not a HOF’er steroids or no steroids.

  150. Ys Guy January 9th, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    i think recent players HR stats have to be rated on something of a curve not so much b/c of steroids, but b/c of smaller ballparks.

  151. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    Ys Guy says:
    January 9, 2013 at 5:33 pm
    idk about the legality of andro at the time mcgwire used it. however to me mcgwire is not a HOF’er steroids or no steroids.

    I agree there ….. He’s not for me either

  152. Ys Guy January 9th, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    one ryan clown down, one to go…

  153. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    i think recent players HR stats have to be rated on something of a curve not so much b/c of steroids, but b/c of smaller ballparks.

    And juiced ball!

    http://deadspin.com/5937432/wa.....d+ball-era

  154. Ys Guy January 9th, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    they used to openly sell ‘yankee joints’ in the back rows of old yankee stadium.

    we’d buy them and stand right there and smoke them.

    so it must have been legal, no?

  155. The Return of Stoneburner January 9th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    Yankeesource ?@YankeeSource
    BA farm system ranking has the Yankees 11th. Fair spot considering the injuries in the system last year. Still a good system with depth.

  156. Giuseppe Franco January 9th, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    I take a pre-workout PED (Jack3D, Assault, NO Explode, Craze, etc, etc) before a heavy lifting workout day and they work VERY well.

    And you can also buy them at any GNC or nutrition store right next to your whey protein powder.

    Out of curiosity, does anyone know if these supplements are legal under the current MLB rules?

    I’ve also took them before a game of my own last summer (in a local men’s baseball league) and they made me feel like Superman.

    I’d strongly argue that the banishment of amphetamines have had a much more significant effect on the declined power numbers in recent years than steroids.

  157. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    If all their top prospects make it to & succeed in AA, the Yankees should be comfortably top 5 after next year.

  158. Giuseppe Franco January 9th, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    Oops…

    I also took them before games of my own…..

  159. Ys Guy January 9th, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    5 hours of reconstructive surgery in RG3 (his second such surgery).

    even if he comes back as good, he HAS TO change his game or he’ll be undergoing reconstruction #3 soon.

  160. The Return of Stoneburner January 9th, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    Buster Olney of ESPN.com (Insider sub. req’d) doesn’t see the Nationals getting much for Morse. The 30-year-old is eligible for free agency next fall and GMs aren’t eager to give up good prospects for a player in that situation. Some GMs have told Olney privately that while they like Morse, they can’t see surrendering much for him due to his defensive shortcomings and lengthy injury history.

    Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#582RlTEfWHCV7tQ5.99

  161. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    Plus the Yankees have finally replaced Contreras with Patterson. That should help.

  162. Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    One of those GMs who talked to Olney is probably Cashman. He tends to further his agenda. Not that I disagree with it in this instance.

  163. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    Rich in NJ January 9th, 2013 at 5:46 pm
    Plus the Yankees have finally replaced Contreras with Patterson. That should help.

    ———————–

    Besides the pitchers being re-signed that was the best news

  164. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    I don’t think the Nats will get a huge return either….although a lot of teams are interested a couple of the suitors are in their division and teams are just gonna give THAT much for a rental with warts…..he just happens to be a perfect fit for the Yanks

  165. joeman January 9th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West January 9th, 2013 at 4:36 pm
    FiretheUMPIRE

    Sammy Sosa and Mark Mcgwire saved the game of baseball
    ———————————–
    this must be a joke

  166. blake January 9th, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    The smaller parks are an issue….but you hear all the time old timers talking about how hard pitchers throw now…..how do we curve the fact that players today are facing better and more specialized pitchers than they did 50 years ago?

  167. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    joeman January 9th, 2013 at 5:55 pm
    Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West January 9th, 2013 at 4:36 pm
    FiretheUMPIRE

    Sammy Sosa and Mark Mcgwire saved the game of baseball
    ———————————–
    this must be a joke
    —————————-

    They did baseball was hurt after the strike. Like it or not those guys breathed life back into the game

  168. Ys Guy January 9th, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    i never paid much attention to morse, but man he sure hasnt played many games over his career.

    he’s averages like 85 games per year for over 5 years, minors and majors combined.

  169. blake January 9th, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    I’d strongly argue that the banishment of amphetamines have had a much more significant effect on the declined power numbers in recent years than steroids.”

    Joe from Long Island….an MD…has said here before that he thought this was possible

  170. blake January 9th, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    “i never paid much attention to morse, but man he sure hasnt played many games over his career.”

    Nope….he’s got flaws….which is why the Nats chose Laroche over him and why he shouldn’t cost a ton….but again he just happens to fit well with the Yabks needs

  171. joeman January 9th, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 5:59 pm
    joeman January 9th, 2013 at 5:55 pm
    Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West January 9th, 2013 at 4:36 pm
    FiretheUMPIRE

    Sammy Sosa and Mark Mcgwire saved the game of baseball
    ———————————–
    this must be a joke
    —————————-

    They did baseball was hurt after the strike. Like it or not those guys breathed life back into the game

    ———————————
    Baseball was going to come back no matter it may have a little quicker…they didi what they did because they were not legit

  172. The Return of Stoneburner January 9th, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    In honor of the HOF balloting today – or lack thereof –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltD21rYWVw

  173. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    Baseball was going to come back no matter it may have a little quicker…they didi what they did because they were not legit

    The point is not that those 2 were trying to save baseball, but that their actions did. The summer of swat was huge.

  174. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    Baseball went from near dead to now more popular & money making than ever in history.

  175. joeman January 9th, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    there were a lot of cheaters in baseball some got caught… some stopped before they got caught

  176. blake January 9th, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    @FakePeteGammons: Yes, I voted for Aaron Sele. He was drafted by the #RedSox & played for them. I vote for every beautiful Boston boy. This is Peter Gammons.

  177. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    joeman January 9th, 2013 at 6:05 pm
    Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 5:59 pm
    joeman January 9th, 2013 at 5:55 pm
    Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West January 9th, 2013 at 4:36 pm
    FiretheUMPIRE

    Sammy Sosa and Mark Mcgwire saved the game of baseball
    ———————————–
    this must be a joke
    —————————-

    They did baseball was hurt after the strike. Like it or not those guys breathed life back into the game

    ———————————
    Baseball was going to come back no matter it may have a little quicker…they didi what they did because they were not legit

    ———————————-

    It was going to come back but would it have been as interesting.

  178. joeman January 9th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 6:06 pm
    Baseball was going to come back no matter it may have a little quicker…they didi what they did because they were not legit

    The point is not that those 2 were trying to save baseball, but that their actions did. The summer of swat was huge.

    —————————–
    their actions were that they were cheating

  179. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    their actions were that they were cheating

    And it saved baseball.

  180. joeman January 9th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 6:09 pm
    their actions were that they were cheating

    And it saved baseball.

    —————————–
    it didn’t save baseball…..so if it wasn’t for the cheaters there would be no baseball now

  181. blake January 9th, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    The best analogy I’ve ever heard about this stuff is: If you had to drive from coast to coast on I-40 and the speed limit was posted at 65 but you knew 100% that there would be no cops patrolling the interstate on your trip….. Would you keep the family truckster at 65 or put her in the wind at 90 all the way to Cali?

    That’s pretty much what guys that took steroids before testing were facing…..

  182. Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    joeman January 9th, 2013 at 6:11 pm
    Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 6:09 pm
    their actions were that they were cheating

    And it saved baseball.

    —————————–
    it didn’t save baseball…..so if it wasn’t for the cheaters there would be no baseball now

    ————————

    There would be baseball but would the game be where it is if it wasn’t for the offensive explosion. Fans were packing the stadiums at the height of the steroid era.

  183. joeman January 9th, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    Against All Odds January 9th, 2013 at 6:13 pm
    joeman January 9th, 2013 at 6:11 pm
    Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 6:09 pm
    their actions were that they were cheating

    And it saved baseball.

    —————————–
    it didn’t save baseball…..so if it wasn’t for the cheaters there would be no baseball now

    ————————

    There would be baseball but would the game be where it is if it wasn’t for the offensive explosion. Fans were packing the stadiums at the height of the steroid era.
    ——————————————————–
    so I guess what you all are saying is that the steroid era saved baseball…and we should say thanks to all who took steroids and lets just let them into the hall because they did in fact save the game of baseball

  184. Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    so I guess what you all are saying is that the steroid era saved baseball…and we should say thanks to all who took steroids and lets just let them into the hall because they did in fact save the game of baseball

    Very good, you got it!

  185. joeman January 9th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    BTW..give me a 2-1…3-2 game anyday

  186. joeman January 9th, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    Jerkface January 9th, 2013 at 6:20 pm
    so I guess what you all are saying is that the steroid era saved baseball…and we should say thanks to all who took steroids and lets just let them into the hall because they did in fact save the game of baseball

    Very good, you got it!

    ————————————-
    just as long as you say so..

  187. blake January 9th, 2013 at 6:36 pm

    @mikeaxisa: NYY’s #1 prospect in 1983 according to Baseball America: John Elway.

  188. blake January 9th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    @LostNYY: Yankees have had something in the works with OF piece since winter meetings, can’t confirm team/players, very quiet.

  189. Michelle B. of Yankee Stadium West January 9th, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    The steroid era, whether you like it or not, made people forgive baseball.

  190. RadioKev January 9th, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    blake says:
    January 9, 2013 at 6:36 pm
    @mikeaxisa: NYY’s #1 prospect in 1983 according to Baseball America: John Elway.
    —-

    A coworker loves to tell the story of when he say Elway play for a Yankees farm team.

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