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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Gossage speaks out about Hall of Fame results

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 11, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

In an interview with The Associated Press, Yankees Hall of Famer Goose Gossage wasn’t shy about voicing his opinion about this week’s Hall of Fame voting results, which sent a clear message that writers are not nearly ready to elect anyone connected to steroid speculation.

“If they let these guys in ever — at any point — it’s a big black eye for the Hall and for baseball,” Gossage said. “It’s like telling our kids, ‘You can cheat, you can do whatever you want, and it’s not going to matter.’ … I think the steroids guys that are under suspicion got too many votes. I don’t know why they’re making this such a question and why there’s so much debate. To me, they cheated. Are we going to reward these guys?”

Al Kaline made similar statements to the AP, and Dennis Eckersley tweeted that it “feels right” that suspected steroid users got such limited support in this year’s voting. Juan Marichal actually took an opposite point of view, telling the AP that players who were never proven to have used steroids have been treated unfairly.

“If you don’t think Roger Clemens cheated, you’re burying your head in the sand,” Gossage said.

There was never any doubt that, one way or another, this year’s ballot was going to stir this sort of passion and controversy.

“I don’t know if baseball knows how to deal with this at all,” Gossage said. “Why don’t they strip these guys of all these numbers? You’ve got to suffer the consequences. You get caught cheating on a test, you get expelled from school.”

Associated Press photo

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189 Responses to “Gossage speaks out about Hall of Fame results”

  1. Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    SMH this is so funny

  2. ctyankeefan. January 11th, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    So, was Piazza ever linked to PEDs? Biggio?

  3. RadioKev January 11th, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    Snore

  4. joeman January 11th, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    Well said Goose…but the steroid era saved baseball

  5. Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    Goose, Kaline, and Eck realize there are already guys in the Hall that used right?

  6. RadioKev January 11th, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    Goose Gossage is the essential grumpy old man

  7. LordD99 January 11th, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    I think Goose is great, loved him as a Yankee, but he really likes to blabber. I guess with the spirit of Bob Feller has entered Goose, making him the Hall’s resident curmudgeon. Eventually one of these guys will get in, and Goose can go home if he doesn’t like hit. He’s a reliever and a marginal HOFer. The fact that he’s questioning players far greater than he was comes across as petty. Worse that Goose, though, is Eckersely, another questionable HOFer who once used a 13-year-old Red Sox club house boy to buy his drugs. How did he not do a jail sentence?

    Yeah, yeah. Love it when the guys already in think they did it the right way and want to keep the Hall exclusive now that they’re in.

  8. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    its been two really good days regarding nunez. first, cashman said he could be a utility player (I take everything cashman says with a grain of salt of course) but now comes the news that he’s been playing third with the yankees blessing!

    nuney’s gonna have a great year, imo.

  9. The Return of Stoneburner January 11th, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    The Moose gets the invite to Copperstown in 2015. Freaking Carl Everett

    ********

    SMH with anger – – – -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoLh73UJbpI

  10. mick January 11th, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    I take it none of you guys have children….

  11. Barry January 11th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    It isn’t about marginal or not. It is about ethics, culture and essential dishonesty. And, Al Kaline isn’t marginal. Marichal’s point does seem well taken. We are talking really about the so-called greatest players who weren’t the greatest, just good. The other guys get in eventually.

  12. LordD99 January 11th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Stoneburner, I totally support Moose for the Hall, but I think it’ll take more than the second ballot, especially with the ballot glut over the next few years. Might take five or six year before he gets the call, but he should get it. Glavine will get in quickly (although no lock for year one), but Mussina was a better pitcher than Glavine. Switch leagues for both and Mussina would be the clear choice.

  13. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    in my mind mussina was never a HOF’er.

    jmo.

  14. The Return of Stoneburner January 11th, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    Stoneburner, I totally support Moose for the Hall

    *****

    Same here – - – -

  15. mick January 11th, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    mussina is an overreaction to the HOF shutout…mediaspeak

  16. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    Ys Guy says:
    January 11, 2013 at 9:54 pm
    in my mind mussina was never a HOF’er.

    You think Glavine was?

  17. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Mlbnetwork doing top 10 2B right now where Robbie destroys all comers

  18. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    its really hard to say a 300 game winner with , what 4 or 5 20 win seasons is not a hall of famer, but in my mind (same ‘measure’ i used for mussina) i’d have to say no, glavine is not a HOF’er.

    but im not really heavily invested in who gets in and who doesnt.

    to me neither guy was a hof’er.

  19. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    if i had to pick one of the two, id pick glavine over mussina but just barely. but i never really thought either guy was a HOF’er.

  20. Bronx Jeers January 11th, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    I don’t know why they’re making this such a question and why there’s so much debate. To me, they cheated. Are we going to reward these guys?”

    ———————————————————-

    Bonds earned more money at age 40 than he did in all of his 20′s. There’s you’re reward right there Goose.

  21. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:11 pm

    also to be fair, i always liked mussina and i always hated glavine…

  22. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    Mussina’s career WAR: 78.2
    Average HOF SP WAR : 67.9

  23. Barry January 11th, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    Bronx Jeers: You are clearly correct. No medal required.

  24. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    also, to be fair, i’ve been accused before of having too high a bar for HOF status.

    i was against rice and blyleven and bernie and i dont think posada or tim raines are HOF’ers either.

  25. Giuseppe Franco January 11th, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    Goose has always had a big mouth just like his former Yankee teammate Reggie Jackson.

  26. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    WAR has no standing with me, sorry.

  27. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    Glavine is viewed as a first ballot guy….and Mussina had more Ks (and a much batter K rate) , better ERA+ , better WHIP….played against better lineups and in the PED era.

    As I said earlier….I never really thought of Moose as a HOFer when he was playing….thought he was just shy…..but when you start looking at his career Nd comparing it to other HOFers it’s tough to ignore how well he looks

  28. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    Ys Guy says:
    January 11, 2013 at 10:15 pm
    WAR has no standing with me, sorry.

    Doesn’t mean everything with me either….but their are lots of other traditional stats where he looks real good too

  29. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    hey, listen, if mussina gets in, god bless him.

    if glavine gets in….meh….

    they are both right on the line, imo.

  30. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    Goose probably took amphetamines and should kick himself out for cheating

  31. Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    It is about ethics, culture and essential dishonesty.

    ————————-

    Maybe but the problem is those 3 players above played in eras when guys doctored the ball, took amphetamines, and did God knows what else.

  32. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    i get all that.

    its tough b/c i always thought mussina somehow just didnt ‘add up’ to his stats.

    at the same time, i thought glavine had it pretty easy in a weaker league in a (most of the time) weak division.

    glavine got those ‘milestone’ #’s (300 wins, 20 win seasons) that make him seem like a shoe in

    but it also always seemed like something was missing in mussina’s game. (to me anyway)

  33. The Return of Stoneburner January 11th, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    Lost .. ?@LostNYY
    @MurderersRow23 doesn’t seem we have what it takes; maybe changing. Yanks would rather give all for giancarlo than most for upton.

    but what does it mean – - – -

  34. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    let me add that i think both mussina and glavine are better than jack morris or bert blyleven.

  35. The Return of Stoneburner January 11th, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    but it also always seemed like something was missing in mussina’s game. (to me anyway)

    *****

    exactly – he was missing the generous strike zone Glavine received and the pitcher in the lineup – - – -

  36. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    i was SO fired up when the yankees got mussina! off the charts psyched.

    but once we got him, he never wowed me. there was pretty much always one or two pitchers on the team i’d rather have pitch the big games.

  37. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    “but what does it mean – – – -”

    I hope they aren’t wasting their time on Giancarlo…..that ain’t happening

  38. Barry January 11th, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Re A Big Mouth. What about any of us here.

  39. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    no i already said i thought glavine had it easier than mussina. its not that.

    i thought mussina was going to be the yankee’s ace for years when they got him.

    he never was till his last season.

    i’d take cone or el duque or pettitte in a big game any day over mussina.

  40. theREALkevin January 11th, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    “Bonds earned more money at age 40 than he did in all of his 20?s. There’s you’re reward right there Goose.”

    Money can’t buy you happiness bro. Just ask Bonds himself. If he was honest, I think I’d know what he’d say.

  41. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 10:33 pm

    “i don’t care too…much for money….

    money can’t buy you love…”

  42. LordD99 January 11th, 2013 at 10:33 pm

    Ys Guy, he was a better pitcher with the Orioles, although still good with the Yankees. Remains one of the best free-agent pitcher signings by the Yankees, or really any team. By historical standards he’s a HOFer, but we all have our line on where that’s drawn. Sounds like yours is higher.

  43. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    Money can buy loyalty, apparently, at least from Greg Anderson. And if it’s not money, something did.

  44. LordD99 January 11th, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    Rich, I sure hope Bonds paid him well. All I know is Andy Pettitte gave up Clemens as soon as asked, while Greg Anderson went to jail a couple of times.

  45. Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    The Return of Stoneburner January 11th, 2013 at 10:21 pm
    Lost .. ?@LostNYY
    @MurderersRow23 doesn’t seem we have what it takes; maybe changing. Yanks would rather give all for giancarlo than most for upton.

    but what does it mean – – – -

    ————————-

    The Yankees don’t appear to have enough for Upton but maybe after some attempts by other teams they can come up with a package. If the Yankees could they would rather be all in on Stanton than Upton.

  46. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:40 pm

    “Money can’t buy you happiness bro. Just ask Bonds himself. If he was honest, I think I’d know what he’d say.”

    How do we know he isn’t happy?

  47. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    Id rather trade some for Upton than all for Giancarlo

  48. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    If the choice is signing Cano for 7 or 8 years or turning him into prospects/young players that can bring back Stanton, I opt for Stanton.

  49. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    Rich in NJ says:
    January 11, 2013 at 10:42 pm
    If the choice is signing Cano for 7 or 8 years or turning him into prospects/young players that can bring back Stanton, I opt for Stanton.

    Sure if that’s an option….But id rather have Cano and Upton than Giancarlo though

  50. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 10:46 pm

    blake

    To me, it’s about length of contract for Cano. I wouldn’t give him more than six years starting in 2014.

  51. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    Bill James ranking the 2B acted like it absolutely killed him to not rank Pedroia #1….but he admitted the reason why was because Cano has become so much better than everyone else that “it’s hard to find a historical comp for him at the position”

  52. blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    Rich,

    Me too….I might go 7 but that’s the limit….I want them to keep Cano and if it weren’t for the budget Id say just sign him and deal with the decline when it came ( like they used to do with players)…..but given his age and their spending now it’s a hard decision.

    We do have to remember that Cano is giving the Yanks a huge daily positional advantage at one of the weakest positions in the game…..so Id really hate to lose that….they just have to be smart

  53. LordD99 January 11th, 2013 at 11:00 pm

    Blake, I saw that, too. James works for the Sox now, but he’s as straight-forward as they come. I don’t think he was trying to place Pedroia above Cano, I think what he’s saying is how much he loves what Pedroia brings to the field, yet Cano is still better. All I know is when I hear James say that it’s hard to find a historical comp for Cano, I keep seeing his $$ figure go even higher.

  54. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:00 pm

    im with you blake. i think it might take 8 years, and i might even go there, but he’d have to give something back to go that far. i’d expect the decline to happen after tex arod and cc are gone so it should be manageable.

  55. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:03 pm

    earlier i said cano is going to win the mvp this year.

    someone else said something like ‘i hope not b/c they wont be able to afford him’

    i dont understand that kind of thinking, hoping he doesnt excel ‘so we can keep him.’

    he’s a yankee right now and if he wins the mvp, we have a great chance to win the WS. This year!

    worry about ‘after that’ after that…

  56. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:05 pm

    “someone else said something like ‘i hope not b/c they wont be able to afford him’”

    That be me.

    Why?

    Because I want the teams I root for to be in a position to win over a longer time horizon than one season, and Cano winning the MVP would likely skew his contract and hurt the Yankees long-term.

  57. blake January 11th, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    Yea James has worked for the Sox for years…. his games on there though seem reasonable and objective though.

    The fact that most of Robbie’s decline should happen after a lot of other money is gone could help…. Short term though signin him could really make things tight for Hals budget

  58. blake January 11th, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    “someone else said something like ‘i hope not b/c they wont be able to afford him’”

    They can’t afford whatever they want…..but Cano winning the MVP just increases his price

  59. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    yeah, but cano winning the mvp increases the chances the yankees win the WS this year.

  60. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    blake

    I really don’t even want to give him six years starting in 2014. As someone mentioned today, the time to extend him was a couple of years ago. So I would trade him. But it’s the Yankees, and they don’t do that.

    Hal, I would hope, has to realize at some point that there is a cost, often a high one, to vastly overpaying players at ages that most decline, often significantly. There are two ways to defray that cost. Either acting like money is something you can burn, or having a great farm system and the patience to integrate one or two on to the roster every single year.

    As of right now, they may have neither of those.

  61. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    “If they let these guys in ever — at any point — it’s a big black eye for the Hall and for baseball,” Gossage said. “It’s like telling our kids, ‘You can cheat, you can do whatever you want, and it’s not going to matter.’ … I think the steroids guys that are under suspicion got too many votes. I don’t know why they’re making this such a question and why there’s so much debate. To me, they cheated. Are we going to reward these guys?””

    RIGHT ON GOOSE!

    I hate to say it but I always tend to think that our responses here tell something about who we really are and how we conduct our lives. I’ve made it crystal clear that I am looking for ethics in whatever happens and I tend to live by the same code. I just have to wonder about the people who couldn’t care less that steroid users get into the HOF. Is that the code of ethics you apply in your own lives, loose and easy as long as you get away with it?

    And I’d like to see the PROOF about people already in the Hall whom others suspect of “using”. And let me say this – even if it has happened, does it mean it should continue to happen? Is it ever to late to do the right thing and play by the rules?

    And as mick points out – what lessons are we teaching our children about fair play if we show them we’re willing to turn a blind eye to the cheating that goes on?

  62. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    “yeah, but cano winning the mvp increases the chances the yankees win the WS this year.”

    How? Regular seasons MVP doesn’t mean anything for the postseason.

  63. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:14 pm

    ” Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    “yeah, but cano winning the mvp increases the chances the yankees win the WS this year.”

    How? Regular seasons MVP doesn’t mean anything for the postseason.

    ==================================================
    what?!?

    are you saying that having your best player playing his best doesn’t increase your chances of winning the WS?

    are you high?

  64. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    does MAKING the PS NOT increse your chances of winning the WS?

    does HFA in one round or two rounds NOT increase your chances of winning the WS?

    does having the best player in the league NOT increase your chances of winning the WS?

  65. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:18 pm

    btw, If any of the people who post here really understand internet threats:

    Given the reported threat, are you really supposed to turn off javascript for every website? Is it safe to turn it on for some websites? Or is the threat overstated?

    Thanks in advance.

  66. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:18 pm

    rooting for your best player not to win the MVP is crazy imo.

  67. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:20 pm

    i have a linux OS that doesnt run java.

    i’ve never had a virus.

  68. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:20 pm

    “‘If you don’t think Roger Clemens cheated, you’re burying your head in the sand,’ Gossage said.”

    Muchie peachie, Goose! Muchie peachie!

    And if that doesn’t hit the target square in the middle, nothing does. You could not have followed that trial and come away with anything different. Remember, the public at large saw and heard a lot of things that the jury did not. So using the jury vote as an excuse is as weak as it gets, if you actually did follow the trial. Then you are clearly nothing more than a Clemens apologist IMO.

  69. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:20 pm

    i should say my current OS has never had a virus. i used to have a differnet system and had plenty.

  70. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:21 pm

    Ys Guy

    I’d like to be high, but I gave that up years ago. But that’s for asking.

    I am saying that playing well in the regular season doesn’t mean you are going to play well in the postseason. Haven’t we seen that repeatedly over the last decade?

    I don’t think they need Cano be the MVP to make the postseason.

    Being the MVP doesn’t make you the best player in the league, except over a given time span.

    But one more time, and sloooowly: I care about winning over a loooong time horizon.

    Cano can have a very, very good year, and not win the MVP, and their chances of winning the WS would be…wait for it…the same.

  71. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:23 pm

    “rooting for your best player not to win the MVP is crazy imo.”

    IMO, vastly overpaying aging players is bad business, and that’s far more important than one’s sanity.

  72. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:24 pm

    call me a yankee hater if you want, but i still want cano to win the mvp this year.

  73. Barry January 11th, 2013 at 11:25 pm

    Trisha:

    Yes, of course. And, I like Clemens. But it is what it is.

  74. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:25 pm

    And I’d pay for tickets to see Goose square off against that Texas turd Clemens. My money would be on Goose all the way. Of course, if anyone took my picture and said I was at the fight, I’d just say you misremembered, the same way Clemens misremembered being at Canseco’s party where he first talked to MaNamee about using steroids – despite there being pictures of him at the party. Okay, I’m done rehashing it. It just infuriates the crap out of me.

    Karma is a beach and it manages to makes it way around.

  75. Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:25 pm

    Meanwhile, I have to roll back the DVR to see why the Knicks are sucking.

  76. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:27 pm

    “Trisha:

    Yes, of course. And, I like Clemens. But it is what it is.”

    Barry, I detest him (obviously). I can’t get past the cheating and the lying and his grandstanding in the face of it all.

  77. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:27 pm

    call me ‘team greedy’ if you want but i want the yankees best hitter to win the mvp
    and i want cc to win the cy young, and if not him then phil hughes.
    and i want the yankees to win the WS this year, even if it means they lose players after it’s over
    and the next season, ill be rooting for another yankee to win the mvp and another yankee to win the cy young. and ill be rooting for the yankees to win the WS that year, too.

    if that makes me a yankee hater, so be it.

  78. Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    Should we throw Gaylord Perry out of the Hall. He cheated with a spitball. Was that a good example to children?

    “And I’d like to see the PROOF about people already in the Hall whom others suspect of “using”.”

    Trish you’re a smart woman. Steroids have been around since what the 1930s. Over the yrs it found it’s way into society, football, the Olympics, horse racing boxing, etc. If it was used in those sports before it became a problem how in the world can we sit here and say baseball players weren’t using it back then. I’m not going to say it was rampant but it’s not hard to believe even a small group of players were doing it. There was an article written in SI about it.

    “And let me say this – even if it has happened, does it mean it should continue to happen?”

    Yes because they can’t say this steroid user stays but these guys have to stay out.

    “Is it ever to late to do the right thing and play by the rules?”

    The cat is out of the bag Trish. We’re going forward not backward.

    ” what lessons are we teaching our children about fair play if we show them we’re willing to turn a blind eye to the cheating that goes on?”

    You tell children that if you cheat you could get caught and have to suffer the consequences if there are any.

  79. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    “You tell children that if you cheat you could get caught and have to suffer the consequences if there are any.”
    =============================================
    first you argue that there shouldnt be any consequences, then you say that……

    no, that’s not a mixed message….. :roll:

  80. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:33 pm

    “Is it ever to late to do the right thing and play by the rules?”

    “The cat is out of the bag Trish. We’re going forward not backward.”

    Which means it’s not too late to do the right thing and play by the rules. Looks like MLB has jumped on board “meaning it” with the new random testing, blood tests included. So yes we’re going forward and playing by the rules.

    Two wrongs will never make a right. You know the old saying. I can’t change what happened yesterday but I sure as hell can change what happens from this moment forward.

    End of story.

  81. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:36 pm

    “You tell children that if you cheat you could get caught and have to suffer the consequences if there are any.”

    That is about as vanilla as I’ve ever heard in my life. We sure didn’t hear that growing up. What we heard is “if you cheat, I’ll turn you in myself” Unless you want a world worth nothing more than crap, you teach people that cheating is wrong. BECAUSE IT IS!

  82. Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 11:36 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:20 pm
    “‘If you don’t think Roger Clemens cheated, you’re burying your head in the sand,’ Gossage said.”

    ———————

    And if Goose doesn’t realize guys he played with and against were doing more than greenies then his head is buried in the sand,

  83. Cashmoney January 11th, 2013 at 11:37 pm

    I think the Moose as a marginal hofer. Moose was a workhorse but whilst he was in a yankee uniform, my fuzzy recollections were that he was mediocre in the playoffs. he was never the go to guy for me and got paid like one. I do remember how dominant he was with the Os and how dominant his stuff was in the 97 playoffs.

  84. Cashmoney January 11th, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    but I gave that up years ago.

    just one of the many reasons that I can never be a lawyer Rich :D

  85. Barry January 11th, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    Sometimes we run a red light…Nothing happpens. Sometimes there’s an accident or we get caught. These guys got caught. The penalty isn’t terribly severe. Just no honor in their own house. We all live with that when we don’t show honor, compassion, loyalty, gratitude and respect for those who live by the code.

  86. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    “And if Goose doesn’t realize guys he played with and against were doing more than greenies then his head is buried in the sand,”

    Why don’t you give us the inside scoop, the real deal? You seem to have a firm pulse on some specifics of which I certainly am unaware, by the way you continue to talk! What more than greenies were he guys doing, and exactly which guys are we talking about? Supposition is cheap.

  87. Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 11:40 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:36 pm
    “You tell children that if you cheat you could get caught and have to suffer the consequences if there are any.”

    That is about as vanilla as I’ve ever heard in my life. We sure didn’t hear that growing up. What we heard is “if you cheat, I’ll turn you in myself” Unless you want a world worth nothing more than crap, you teach people that cheating is wrong. BECAUSE IT IS!

    ——————–

    It might be vanilla but it’s not completely out of left field.

  88. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:43 pm

    Against, it’s not anywhere in any field around me or anyone related to me, I can tell you that. And I preach it ad nauseum to the kids of all of my friends and anyone else who will listen. There’s no grey area here. There’s right, and there’s wrong.

  89. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:43 pm

    you say there shouldnt be any consequences, then you say tell your children they will have to deal with the consequences if there are any and i’ve don all i can to make sure there arent any.

    how do you think your children will react to that message?

  90. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:45 pm

    I have to run to the store before it closes at 12. But I feel so passionate about this stuff that I could go on forever.

    Luckily for the rest of you, I have to run to the store.

    :)

  91. Ys Guy January 11th, 2013 at 11:51 pm

    here’s the message that sends to kids: cheat like crazy, there shouldn’t be any consequences and if there are, ill do all i can to minimize them.

  92. Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 11:52 pm

    Why don’t you give us the inside scoop, the real deal? You seem to have a firm pulse on some specifics of which I certainly am unaware, by the way you continue to talk!
    What more than greenies were he guys doing, and exactly which guys are we talking about? Supposition is cheap.

    ———————

    No inside scoop just looking at it logically. Roids have been around for decades. Athletes in different sports were using it in as early as the 60s maybe even sooner. Canseco was using them to get the majors. So let me get this straight a kid in his 20s had access to roids in the early 80s but I’m suppose to believe guys already in the bigs weren’t using them??? Are we suppose to sit here and believe the era started in the mid 80s with the bash brothers or after the strike.

  93. Jerkface January 11th, 2013 at 11:52 pm

    Children should probably learn to disregard the notion of fair play. Cheat to win!

  94. Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 11:57 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 11th, 2013 at 11:43 pm
    Against, it’s not anywhere in any field around me or anyone related to me, I can tell you that. And I preach it ad nauseum to the kids of all of my friends and anyone else who will listen. There’s no grey area here. There’s right, and there’s wrong.

    ——————-

    It was preached to me and everyone hears it until they are faced with the situation. Case in point I’m going to tell my children don’t cheat on tests in school. But I know they are going to be in a situation where they will cheat on a test.

  95. Jerkface January 11th, 2013 at 11:59 pm

    Trisha has her head in the sand, big leaguers have already come out and stated there are guys in the hall who have used. Players from the 70s and 80s have stated ownership knew about/privately condoned PED use at that time. We know the Oakland Athletics 80s WS teams got to 3 of them on the back of steroids. We know that through out history players have tried anything and everything to get an advantage in the game. We know anyone in the hall who played after WW1 is 90% likely to have used amphetamines.

    I don’t consider using scientific advances of the body cheating, but if you do, then there is no denying that it has been pervasive and prevalent throughout the game for much longer than the 90s.

  96. jacksquat January 12th, 2013 at 12:01 am

    Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 11:52 pm

    No inside scoop just looking at it logically. Roids have been around for decades. Athletes in different sports were using it in as early as the 60s maybe even sooner. Canseco was using them to get the majors. So let me get this straight a kid in his 20s had access to roids in the early 80s but I’m suppose to believe guys already in the bigs weren’t using them??? Are we suppose to sit here and believe the era started in the mid 80s with the bash brothers or after the strike.

    Frankly, none of that matters to me. I don’t care that others may be in that cheated in one way or another, or even used steroids. It’s water under the bridge. That doesn’t mean I can’t keep proven cheaters out starting now. I don’t care about not being fair to proven cheaters, and I’ll never understand that line of reasoning.

  97. Ys Guy January 12th, 2013 at 12:01 am

    drink and drive all you want, tons of people do it and a good lawyer can get you off.

    girls that are really really drunk are easy to have sex with.

    pay someone who’s smart to take your sat.

    only suckers pay taxes.

    don’t bother with condoms.

    ‘deal with the consequences if there are any’ (and i dont think there should be any)

  98. Jerkface January 12th, 2013 at 12:03 am

    Hm, don’tthink steroid use is the same as attempted rape, driving under the influence, and having unprotected sex. It is a big leap from one to the others.

  99. Rich in NJ January 12th, 2013 at 12:05 am

    “Just one of the many reasons that I can never be a lawyer Rich ”

    That reminds me. When we were filling out the application to take the Bar toward the end of third year, one of my law school classmates mentioned how easy it was to fill it out. I replied that it took me hours.

  100. Ys Guy January 12th, 2013 at 12:08 am

    sure, kids can easily tell the difference between cheating in sports and cheating on tests and cheating in dealing with the opposite sex and cheating on taxes and cheating in any other way.

    its crystal clear to a child.

  101. Against All Odds January 12th, 2013 at 12:15 am

    jacksquat January 12th, 2013 at 12:01 am
    Against All Odds January 11th, 2013 at 11:52 pm

    No inside scoop just looking at it logically. Roids have been around for decades. Athletes in different sports were using it in as early as the 60s maybe even sooner. Canseco was using them to get the majors. So let me get this straight a kid in his 20s had access to roids in the early 80s but I’m suppose to believe guys already in the bigs weren’t using them??? Are we suppose to sit here and believe the era started in the mid 80s with the bash brothers or after the strike.

    Frankly, none of that matters to me. I don’t care that others may be in that cheated in one way or another, or even used steroids. It’s water under the bridge. That doesn’t mean I can’t keep proven cheaters out starting now. I don’t care about not being fair to proven cheaters, and I’ll never understand that line of reasoning.

    —————————

    It’s not about being fair it’s about realizing that the steroid era goes back further than ppl would like to acknowledge.

  102. Against All Odds January 12th, 2013 at 12:19 am

    Ys Guy January 12th, 2013 at 12:08 am
    sure, kids can easily tell the difference between cheating in sports and cheating on tests and cheating in dealing with the opposite sex and cheating on taxes and cheating in any other way.

    its crystal clear to a child.

    ———————————

    Yes there are different degrees of cheating but what I’m saying is it’s easy to say what someone wouldn’t do until they are faced with that situation. I’m sure there are players that said they would never touch the stuff but then when push came to shove did.

  103. Jerkface January 12th, 2013 at 12:26 am

    sure, kids can easily tell the difference between cheating in sports and cheating on tests and cheating in dealing with the opposite sex and cheating on taxes and cheating in any other way.

    its crystal clear to a child.

    A child shouldn’t be doing taxes or having sex.

  104. Jerkface January 12th, 2013 at 12:30 am

    And I’d say about most people in America would be teaching their kids to cheat on taxes if they could.

  105. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 12th, 2013 at 12:30 am

    “big leaguers have already come out and stated there are guys in the hall who have used.”

    link please. Just curious, because I’m with jacksquat. What happened in the past, if it did, does not excuse it happening now.

    *************

    “Yes there are different degrees of cheating but what I’m saying is it’s easy to say what someone wouldn’t do until they are faced with that situation. I’m sure there are players that said they would never touch the stuff but then when push came to shove did.”

    Again, it goes back to what you’re taught and how well you’re taught it. Elementary school, high school, college, two masters degrees and a law degree. I never once ever cheated on a test. I’m sure I had opportunity but I never did it. At what point absolute fear of the consequences melded with the understanding between right and wrong, I can’t say. But I can tell you for sure that my parents taught by example and my father had a zero tolerance policy for lying, cheating, and the like. I have to believe that’s where my sense of ethics comes from. So if kids are taught right from wrong in no uncertain terms, maybe they’ll grow up to live it. It’s certainly worth the effort.

  106. Rich in NJ January 12th, 2013 at 12:35 am

    “And I’d say about most people in America would be teaching their kids to cheat on taxes if they could.”

    Then we truly would become Greece…

  107. Against All Odds January 12th, 2013 at 12:41 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 12th, 2013 at 12:30 am
    “big leaguers have already come out and stated there are guys in the hall who have used.”

    link please. Just curious, because I’m with jacksquat. What happened in the past, if it did, does not excuse it happening now.

    *************

    “Yes there are different degrees of cheating but what I’m saying is it’s easy to say what someone wouldn’t do until they are faced with that situation. I’m sure there are players that said they would never touch the stuff but then when push came to shove did.”

    Again, it goes back to what you’re taught and how well you’re taught it. Elementary school, high school, college, two masters degrees and a law degree. I never once ever cheated on a test. I’m sure I had opportunity but I never did it. At what point absolute fear of the consequences melded with the understanding between right and wrong, I can’t say. But I can tell you for sure that my parents taught by example and my father had a zero tolerance policy for lying, cheating, and the like. I have to believe that’s where my sense of ethics comes from. So if kids are taught right from wrong in no uncertain terms, maybe they’ll grow up to live it. It’s certainly worth the effort.

    ———————-

    I’ve cheated on a test but I’ve never cheated on a woman I was seeing or involved with. I couldn’t live with myself if I did that.

    “So if kids are taught right from wrong in no uncertain terms, maybe they’ll grow up to live it. It’s certainly worth the effort.”

    I went to a catholic school from age 4-14. Many of us came from strong families and a strong community in general. We were taught right from wrong basically on a daily basis but even then many of my friends became involved in things they shouldn’t have gangs, sex, drugs, etc.

  108. Nick in SF January 12th, 2013 at 12:44 am

    Cooperstown is already rife with sex gangs. Wake up, people.

  109. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 12th, 2013 at 12:50 am

    Against – all I can say is you didn’t grow up with my father (as your father) :) I think that what you’re taught in school doesn’t compare to what you’re taught at home. I see it all the time and I watch it play out. I know someone who has no difficulty in bending any rule that she can, and her kids are cookie cutter copies. Not far from the tree…

    Well I’m going to turn in and hope for the best for our world and our country. I will hope that in homes all across the country parents are teaching their children that cheating on taxes is wrong because cheating is wrong.

    ;)

  110. Against All Odds January 12th, 2013 at 12:56 am

    I was taught at home not to steal, kill, fight, drink, or do drugs. Me cheating on a test doesn’t mean my parents did a poor job at teaching me right from wrong that was my choice.

  111. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 12th, 2013 at 1:05 am

    Again, had you grown up with my father at the helm, you may never have even given cheating a thought because the consequences would not have been worth it. I know from whence I speak. I’d say my dad was much tougher than the average bear. It may have driven me crazy as a kid but I don’t regret it a bit now.

    Good job, dad.

    Night.

  112. Against All Odds January 12th, 2013 at 1:11 am

    So you’re basically saying my father did a poor job in teaching me right from wrong?

  113. Against All Odds January 12th, 2013 at 1:12 am

    Don’t sign off I want to hear your answer

  114. Rich in NJ January 12th, 2013 at 1:21 am

    IMO, being judgmental is extremely sub- sub- suboptimal. That is all.

  115. Ys Guy January 12th, 2013 at 1:27 am

    aao, i was very critical of your earlier post. so i want to say that while i was arguing aganst some conepts of what i thought you were espousing, i dont in any way cast any doubt about you or your parents or your childrean or anything.

    i am a flawed man myself, i have lied and cheated many times in my life and i dont want to come off as trying to be holier than anybody and i apologize if i came off as overly critical of you as a person, please forgive me if you feel that i was.

    i get a little over emotional sometimes when i feel we are sending what i think is the ‘wrong message’ to children especially when it comes to sports, because playing little league baseball, basketball and midget football (along with being a boy scout and altar boy) are the what set the cornerstone of what i think is right and wrong.
    but i have failed these lofty standars as much if not more often than anyone else, so in some ways, i am ‘no one to talk’.

    still i think that concepts such as fairness, ‘playing by the rules’ and the long-lost concept of ‘sportsmanship’ are important concepts to teach kids and i think any message that tells kids that the rules are ‘stretchable’ is a bad message for kids.

    i just want to make sure you dont think i’m attacking you personally, i assume that you are a good person even though we may disagree about who should be in the HOF and what the standards should be.

  116. Against All Odds January 12th, 2013 at 2:11 am

    “aao, i was very critical of your earlier post. so i want to say that while i was arguing aganst some conepts of what i thought you were espousing, i dont in any way cast any doubt about you or your parents or your childrean or anything.”

    Nothing wrong with being critical with my posts. You weren’t rude or disrespectful in anyway. You didn’t cross the line.

    “i am a flawed man myself, i have lied and cheated many times in my life and i dont want to come off as trying to be holier than anybody and i apologize if i came off as overly critical of you as a person, please forgive me if you feel that i was.”

    You didn’t come off like that. I seriously didn’t take it that way. I appreciate you saying that but I never even took it as Ys thinks I’m scum or anything like that.

    “i get a little over emotional sometimes when i feel we are sending what i think is the ‘wrong message’ to children especially when it comes to sports, because playing little league baseball, basketball and midget football (along with being a boy scout and altar boy) are the what set the cornerstone of what i think is right and wrong.
    but i have failed these lofty standars as much if not more often than anyone else, so in some ways, i am ‘no one to talk’.”

    We have all failed in some aspect when it comes to teaching children right from wrong. We have all made mistakes and done things we regret.

    “still i think that concepts such as fairness, ‘playing by the rules’ and the long-lost concept of ‘sportsmanship’ are important concepts to teach kids and i think any message that tells kids that the rules are ‘stretchable’ is a bad message for kids.”

    True but I think as you get older you find out that somethings aren’t always what they seem. Whether that be sports, government, entertainment industry, etc. With that being said they don’t have to participate in those acts and if they choose not to they can live knowing they didn’t. Their self respect will be intact. I guess what I’m saying is even when children are taught right from wrong some will cross the line, some won’t, and others will completely erase it.

    “i just want to make sure you dont think i’m attacking you personally, i assume that you are a good person even though we may disagree about who should be in the HOF and what the standards should be.”

    I never took it that way to be honest with you. I didn’t sit here and say boy Ys is some goody two shoes and he thinks I’m ripping and running out here. You’ve made mistakes and I know that because no one is perfect. I’ve done things I’m not ok with whether that would be cheating on a final or telling a white lie. I didn’t take it personal because you never crossed the line. You made some sarcastic comments but they weren’t rude or mean in anyway. We disagree on the Hall but agree on Robbie so there is a common ground here. :) Hopefully he has a big season but won’t be too outrageous with his contract demands.

    I’m still waiting for Trish to explain herself.

  117. Ys Guy January 12th, 2013 at 2:24 am

    i think i’ve been called ‘dirtbag’ as often as i’ve been called ‘goodgy two shoes’

    i hope that represents balance….

    in any case, good night!

  118. mick January 12th, 2013 at 4:57 am

    What galls me is the way these supposed cheaters continue to lie.
    As you can see with Arod, Andy and others they , at least, showed some contrition when caught.
    Guys like Clemens, Bonds, Sosa , Palmiero and McGwire are the poster boys for this era altho many others have done PEDs .
    Sure many here have cheated but is that the issue?
    It’s what you do when you get caught.
    They knowingly or unknowingly, with or without the advise of council, refused to come clean.
    Maybe they don’t feel they’ve done anything wrong.
    Whatever the case, they have now entered the final court, the court of public opinion.

    This is what Goose is trying to say.
    He’s saying : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkaKwXddT_I

    It’s like running the red light, lying to the judge, then feeling indignant about it.

    Just pay the fine…

  119. PacoDooley January 12th, 2013 at 5:13 am

    I realize it’s not a popular position to take in the blogosphere, but I agree with Goose. These guys have gotten their rewards already – Cy Youngs, MVPs and massive contracts. But do I really need to see a massive juiced up player like Sosa make it to the Hall because he has numbers comparable to someone with 10x his actual talent level? Clemens and Bonds were HoFers before their decent into cheating and that should have been enough for them, but then they tainted baseball history for their own gain.

  120. RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 6:30 am

    blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:15 pm
    Glavine is viewed as a first ballot guy….and Mussina had more Ks (and a much batter K rate) , better ERA+ , better WHIP….played against better lineups and in the PED era.

    As I said earlier….I never really thought of Moose as a HOFer when he was playing….thought he was just shy…..but when you start looking at his career Nd comparing it to other HOFers it’s tough to ignore how well he looks
    —————

    Yep. Moose was the better quality pitcher, and he was just a small handful of wins behind Glavine’s pace when he retired. Who cares that Glavine hung around long enough to collect 300 wins and Moose didn’t? How does that matter? Mussina went out on top, and good for him.

  121. blake January 12th, 2013 at 6:34 am

    @Buster_ESPN: The Diamondbacks like Mike Olt, and presumably, if there’s an Upton deal with Texas arranged, he’d be a guy Arizona would want.

    Hopefully Towers won’t settle for Olt

  122. blake January 12th, 2013 at 6:42 am

    @Buster_ESPN: Atlanta lying in the weeds some in J.Upton conversations. If they got him, they’d be assured of at least 3 years of Upton/Upton/Heyward OF.

  123. blake January 12th, 2013 at 7:08 am

    My ultimate take on PEDs and the HOF, which lines up very closely with the column Jason Stark wrote a couple of days ago (which is a must read if you’re a baseball fan), is that this situation was allowed to happen by everyone.

    The players, MLB, the owners, the media, and yes the fans allowed it all to happen….we all turned our heads and cheered until one day deciding it was all the worst form of treachery.

    It just want it to go away so that focus can be on the game again…..and so long as its an issue and debated every January…..it’s never going to go away….never….it’ll dominate the sport every year.

    We all allowed it to happen….so lets all take our medicine….let the best players from the era in ….and lets all move on and talk about play in the field. JMO

  124. RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 7:28 am

    At least these guys weren’t running drug rings like Lance Armstrong, am I right?

  125. blake January 12th, 2013 at 7:43 am

    RadioKev says:
    January 12, 2013 at 7:28 am
    At least these guys weren’t running drug rings like Lance Armstrong, am I right?

    I care less about the doping stuff Armstrong did (because Id guess well over half of those guys were doing it) than how he apparently treated people…..which by the reports wasn’t very good

  126. jmills January 12th, 2013 at 8:06 am

    Mills speaks out – I’m with Gossage and I’m going to run out and put his White Sox card in my tricycle spokes. We just had one of the heads of the Toronto Public School Board who makes close to 300 grand a year ( something wrong in that figure in of itself ) get caught for cutting and pasting another’s work in a simple newspaper article. Apparently they weren’t even going to fire him ( what would happen to a cheater in the classroom?) until they found all his stolen speaches. Idiot. Our public school techers in Ontario make on average over 80 grand per year with carry over sick days and pensions ( their union just sold Maple Leafs sports and entertainment ) for what is a part time year; they should be over the moon in this economy, instead they’ve been having rotating strikes, sending parents scrambling for babysitters and in many cases the necessary funds.

  127. RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 8:09 am

    blake,

    Yeah, some of those reports make him out to be like a mob boss. Pretty ruthless by the sound of it.

    I agree that the sport incentivized taking steroids, without any disincentive. I get people are supposed to stand by their ethics, but a certain culture can certainly affect a person’s decision making. These guys aren’t saints, they’re humans. Was Ty Cobb a saint?

  128. RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 8:13 am

    What do teacher’s unions have to do with baseball?

  129. BIG AL January 12th, 2013 at 8:13 am

    If it’s a fact that a player cheated, then I say keep him out of the HOF. But, if it’s just a rumor, or someone thinks he may have, but the player was not caught, nor did he test positive, then he should not be blocked from the HOF.

    IMO, the writers kept out players this year without proof, and did not do the job they were intrusted to do.

    If A-Rod comes back from surgery, and has a few very good years to end his career, does he get into the HOF, for admitting he cheated for a few years?

    People forget, teams use to put out “Greenies” in the club house every day to help players that were tired after long trips etc., do we call that cheating? If so, you can empty most players from the HOF.

    Some folks are just so high and mighty, they must certainly be saints!

  130. BIG AL January 12th, 2013 at 8:16 am

    By the way, I think you’d have to close the NFL HOF if players that used drugs were removed, what a joke!

  131. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 8:17 am

    Oy vey.. now this is about the children..

    I actually think this whole thing teaches a great lesson to kids: Life isn’t fair. Some people cheat and get away with it, some people don’t. Some people get wrongly accused of things they never did, some people don’t. Do the best you can.

    Baseball, like life, has gray areas… but let’s not go overboard and make character assessments about people based on their opinions regarding a game. It’s just a game.

  132. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 8:20 am

    Oh yeah, and the comparisons to rape earlier were deplorable. Please don’t minimize important things like rape and sexual harassment to prove a completely unrelated point about people that play a sport and try to get an edge using PEDs.

    I used to be way more against PEDs and what we should do about them.. but it becomes an insane slippery slope. I just want a better testing program, but even then I have a really hard time believing the league wouldn’t protect certain players. If Jeter ever tested positive, I’m almost sure those results get burned and scattered in the ocean.

  133. jmills January 12th, 2013 at 8:20 am

    Al, I can see your point, as they weren’t caught – its just hard to pull for Bonds etc, but maybe we should put them in and let the viewer meditate ( could be a source of heathy debate for passing families )

  134. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 8:22 am

    If A-Rod comes back from surgery, and has a few very good years to end his career, does he get into the HOF, for admitting he cheated for a few years?

    ————-

    Al – I have to say, I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out in a number of years. Some of these guys will be so far removed from the steroid era by the time they retire they might end up getting more of a pass. The BBWAA will have turned over a bit by the time Arod is up. And I totally agree about not voting based on rumors and suspicion. If any of these guys even heard rumors about it while the guys were playing, they should at least have the cajones to say, ‘well in 1999 I heard this and that’s why I’m not voting for X player.’ But they won’t do that because it forces them to put their own reputations on the block.

  135. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:23 am

    The Pineda trade happened a year ago tomorrow I believe…..I remember I was in Target with my wife when i saw the news and she had to ask me why I was mumbling curse words at my phone

  136. RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 8:23 am

    I’ve honestly got no idea how HGH or HGH screening works, but I imagine we’ll have a few more surprises on the way…

  137. RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 8:23 am

    blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:23 am
    The Pineda trade happened a year ago tomorrow I believe…..I remember I was in Target with my wife when i saw the news and she had to ask me why I was mumbling curse words at my phone

    ———–

    :D

  138. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Ty Cobb prolly woukd make Bonds look like a saint though

  139. RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 8:25 am

    Especially the things he would have said about Bonds…

  140. jmills January 12th, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Good note, Shame, it is just a game. I think though that kids entering the competitive arena ( Olympics etc ) require strong mentors lest they get screwed up . I have a friend who taught compettitive figure skating for years and she says its pathetic how socially messed up so many of those young lives become. I also think we’re a long ways away from curbing the drug problem. It is just too sexy and financially rewarding to finish first.

  141. joeman January 12th, 2013 at 8:28 am

    According to Jim Bowden of ESPN.com and MLB Network Radio on Sirius XM, the Red Sox would like to sign Mike Napoli to a one-year contract.
    The organization apparently wants to see how his hip holds up to the rigors of the season before guaranteeing multiple years on his contract. Talks between Napoli and Red Sox GM Ben Cherington are ongoing, and all signs point to a deal getting worked out eventually.
    ———————————-
    thus setting the stage for them to trade for Morse

  142. BIG AL January 12th, 2013 at 8:29 am

    The HOF should be for players that were the very best at what they do, compared to those they played against, period.

    It would be so easy to say, I think Jeter used PED’s, because at his age he came back and had a great year. I could question any past, or present player that excelled, and I could be wrong every time, or not. To simply suggest a player is cheating puts a black mark on that player, even if he doesn’t deserve it. Sports writers did not do their job when the cheating was full blown, and now they want to try and make up for it, and be politically correct to the point of making me sick to even read the crap they call journalism today.

  143. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:30 am

    RadioKev says:
    January 12, 2013 at 8:25 am
    Especially the things he would have said about Bonds…

    Yea….so I really don’t get all the moral outrage here. If we aren’t willing to accept that amphetamines are cheating too andante note of that…..then how can we point to some moral code when scoundrels like Ty Cobb are in there….. As Stark said….. The HOF is a museum ….it’s the history of the game….it’s not a cathedral of morality

  144. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:31 am

    “The HOF should be for players that were the very best at what they do, compared to those they played against, period.”

    I agree….and Bonds and Clemens were the very best of an era of juicers…..

  145. jmills January 12th, 2013 at 8:32 am

    Maybe make the testing more random, intensive, with a life time ban if caught. I heard it said when Melky got caught, that a player presently just has to be plain stupid to be found out under the present system.

  146. joeman January 12th, 2013 at 8:33 am

    I for one wanted the NYY to trade Montero (right Big Al) didn’t ever think he would be a fulltime catcher for them…now I would like to see them try to get him back, he not going to catch much for them…they look to be set there for years to come

  147. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:33 am

    Amaro said yesterday that they “weren’t all that comfortable with their outfield”

    Sure wish we could get Upton and make the Philliss over pay for Granderson

  148. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 8:34 am

    jmills January 12th, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Good note, Shame, it is just a game. I think though that kids entering the competitive arena ( Olympics etc ) require strong mentors lest they get screwed up . I have a friend who taught compettitive figure skating for years and she says its pathetic how socially messed up so many of those young lives become. I also think we’re a long ways away from curbing the drug problem. It is just too sexy and financially rewarding to finish first.

    ——————-

    A lot of these young athletes are put under tremendous pressure… most are the sole bread winners for their entire family. It’s easy to lose your way, I’d imagine. I can’t imagine what it must have been light in the late 90′s when you had athletic trainers, managers, and owners in some cases putting pressure on guys to use, directly or indirectly. I’m not calling the users victims, but I think making character assessments of anyone without knowing the full story (which we’ll never get) is useless. We don’t judge guys nearly as harshly for committing worse crimes.. in fact many athletes continue to be celebrated. It’s just a game and there are no heroes on the field. That’s a great lesson for the kids.

    blake – My friend told me about the trade and I said, ‘no.’ And he was like no look and showed me an article and all I kept thinking was, ‘Michael WHO???’ and I know that wasn’t a good sign lol.

    Any news on Napoli?? I would LOVE to swipe him away from Boston just to piss them off.

  149. BIG AL January 12th, 2013 at 8:35 am

    jmills January 12th, 2013 at 8:32 am
    Maybe make the testing more random, intensive, with a life time ban if caught. I heard it said when Melky got caught, that a player presently just has to be plain stupid to be found out under the present system.

    ***********************************************************

    And yet they continue to get caught, at all levels of the game.

  150. austinmac January 12th, 2013 at 8:36 am

    Still no hint of Yankee activity. Upton will likely go to Texas to fix their off season.

    Patience. Juan Rivera is a tough sign. Someone else may want to offer him a minor league deal.

  151. BIG AL January 12th, 2013 at 8:36 am

    blake -

    The Tar Heels are going in the wrong direction, and my Blue Devils, in their re-building year, seem to be doing pretty well. :)

  152. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:37 am

    Shame,

    I knew who Pineda was and really liked him…..just didnt want them to trade Montero because I knew they woukd need young offense soon ……it is what it is….will Cash redeem himself a year later?

  153. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:38 am

    “The Tar Heels are going in the wrong direction, and my Blue Devils, in their re-building year, seem to be doing pretty well. ”

    I don’t want to talk about it….all I can say is that the Heels are very young…..and K is probably the greatest basketball coach of all time…..can’t stand him but it is what it is….he’s incredible

  154. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 8:39 am

    blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:37 am

    Shame,

    I knew who Pineda was and really liked him…..just didnt want them to trade Montero because I knew they woukd need young offense soon ……it is what it is….will Cash redeem himself a year later?

    ——————–

    I saw Lost’s comments from last night… don’t really know what to make of it, if anything should be made of it at all.

    We have 30 days to get something done or not. It’s gonna be an adventure!

  155. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:41 am

    “I saw Lost’s comments from last night… don’t really know what to make of it, if anything should be made of it at all.”

    I dunno…..I don’t make much of it. I think they are gonna try to do something …

  156. joeman January 12th, 2013 at 8:43 am

    it shouldn’t cost them much to get Montero back….play him 75% of the time behind the plate….this setup they have know won’t work well

  157. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:43 am

    I think morse is more likely than Upton….but my guess is that teams are waiting for the Upton resolution before really focusing on Morse…..I have to believe Cash is in on them both….

  158. RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 8:43 am

    I think Chad’s made a great point as far as Giancarlo goes. Of course every organization wants him, but can the Yankees realistically afford to give up most of our quality prospects for him? That’s a lot of eggs in one basket when we’ll have many holes to fill coming up.

  159. 86w183 January 12th, 2013 at 8:43 am

    I’d like to know how many pep pills Goose took the day game after a night game, after a west coast trip or after having been used 2,3, 4 days in a row.

    the whole blackballing of steroid ERA players is shameful to me. There were no rules against using. There was no testing. There were no prescribed punishments. But the BBWAA and certain sanctimonious members of the Hall want to turn them all into Hester Prynne.

    It’s all very annoying.

    Not as annoying as the Yankees off-season to this point, but annoying.

  160. MTU January 12th, 2013 at 8:43 am

    Blake-

    Why blame the mumbling and use of foul language on poor Montero ?

    He was probably in Venezuela at the time tuning up one of his Father’s racecars.

    A little mumbling and swearing are good for the soul.

    I’m a K-Mart Man myself. I do all my swearing and mumbling there.

    ;)

  161. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 8:44 am

    I feel like we have a scale thing going..

    Morse < Upton < Giancarlo

    We'll see who they go for and what they end up giving up.

    Honestly? I'm ready to revisit trying to get Gordon or Headley instead. If I could only get Cash to follow my lead on this :mad:

  162. RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 8:45 am

    joeman January 12th, 2013 at 8:43 am
    it shouldn’t cost them much to get Montero back….play him 75% of the time behind the plate….this setup they have know won’t work well
    ——–

    First, I don’t think even the most optimistic scout thinks Montero could play catcher 75% of the time.

    Second, we know the Yankees will absolutely not do this. It’s fantasy. They traded him because they don’t see him as a catcher. I don’t see why that evaluation would have changed.

  163. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 8:46 am

    RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 8:43 am

    I think Chad’s made a great point as far as Giancarlo goes. Of course every organization wants him, but can the Yankees realistically afford to give up most of our quality prospects for him? That’s a lot of eggs in one basket when we’ll have many holes to fill coming up.

    ——————

    I think Giancarlo would take too much creativity.. they’d have to make a move for him that wipes the farm and then would have to move other guys to resupply their system. It just depends on how much turn over they’re willing to have this year…. I have a hard time believing they do it.

  164. BIG AL January 12th, 2013 at 8:47 am

    “GGreenies” in the club house for decades, yet no uproar about those that used “uppers” every day being in the HOF.

    That being said, I’d vote for both Bonds and Clemmons to be in the HOF. You could put on their plaque, “A product of the PED era, he excelled while using PED’s” PED’s did not make Bonds a better hitter, but it did allow him to hit the ball further. I watched a show in which several doctors agreed, that if a player used PED’s, he might hit the ball 20 feet longer on average. The vast amount of Bonds HR’s would have been a HR with or without PED’s. Just look at those that were caught, most were not super stars, and didn’t turn into another Bonds. If taking drugs gets a player back on the field quicker, following an injury, why not allow them. If A-Rod has a surgery that reshapes his hip, and it provides him with much better range of motion than he had prior to the injury, is that cheating?

  165. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:47 am

    joeman says:
    January 12, 2013 at 8:43 am
    it shouldn’t cost them much to get Montero back….play him 75% of the time behind the plate….this setup they have know won’t work well

    If they could get Upton Id offer Granderson for Montero

  166. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 8:48 am

    But the BBWAA and certain sanctimonious members of the Hall want to turn them all into Hester Prynne.

    ————–

    +1 for the reference.

  167. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    RadioKev says:
    January 12, 2013 at 8:43 am
    I think Chad’s made a great point as far as Giancarlo goes. Of course every organization wants him, but can the Yankees realistically afford to give up most of our quality prospects for him? That’s a lot of eggs in one basket when we’ll have many holes to fill coming up.

    I think given the budget that acquiring Giancarlo ( while awesome) may be counterproductive even if they could get him…..it would totally wipe the system out and in baseball you need more than one player to win

  168. joeman January 12th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:43 am
    I think morse is more likely than Upton….but my guess is that teams are waiting for the Upton resolution before really focusing on Morse…..I have to believe Cash is in on them both….
    ————————————————
    you know where Morse will land because I said it …………………………..
    ………………………………

    They say u should never trust someone that says “trust me”,,… so do you trust the guy that says “Dont trust me”??

  169. joeman January 12th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:43 am
    I think morse is more likely than Upton….but my guess is that teams are waiting for the Upton resolution before really focusing on Morse…..I have to believe Cash is in on them both….
    ————————————————
    you know where Morse will land because I said it …………………………..
    ………………………………
    trust
    They say u should never trust someone that says “trust me”,,… so do you trust the guy that says “Dont trust me”??

  170. MTU January 12th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Shame-

    Please complete your schema as follows:

    Rivera<Morse<Upton<Stanton

    Carry on.

    ;)

  171. RadioKev January 12th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Shame,

    I don’t really think even trading Cano and Granderson could recoup the lost prospects.

  172. jmills January 12th, 2013 at 8:50 am

    MTU, a little bit of swearing is good for the soul when you’re trying to fit large parking lot objects in the trunk of a Prelude ( that goes the same for guests in the back seat )

  173. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:50 am

    “Why blame the mumbling and use of foul language on poor Montero ?”

    It was directed at Cashman!

  174. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:52 am

    If Napoli falls through I think Boston will jump on Morse….if not cant see it

  175. yankee21 January 12th, 2013 at 8:53 am

    Someone in the media should ask guys like Gossage point blank if he ever took reds or if he saw or knew of any of his fellow players take reds. Was that not cheating?

    Were amphetamines not illegal drugs in the 70s and 80s when he pitched?
    Was he not breaking both federal and state laws?

    For him to call out Clemens in 2013 is nothing short of hypocrisy, where was he in the late 1990s when all this was coming down. I don’t recall him going public and objecting to steroid use.

    Shut up gossage and all you holier than thou tough guys from the 70s and 80s you have no moral stand to call out any of today’s players.

  176. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:54 am

    Heyman said yesterday “if the Yankees don’t sign Cano then they aren’t the Yankees anymore”.

    Are they the Yankees now?

  177. MTU January 12th, 2013 at 8:55 am

    Mills-

    I completely understand that predicament and attendant swearing.

    Blake-

    I see. As they say today, “my bad”.

    Your mumbling and swearing will most likely increase with age.

    You are not in your prime years just yet.

    Take it from one who knows.

    ;)

  178. blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:56 am

    I love Hank Aaron….I think he was a great player and went through a lot on and off the field to do what he did…..but just for fairness….I would love it if at least one reporter would pose the question: could Aaron have posted a 1+ OPS at age 39 without amphetamines?

  179. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 8:57 am

    MTU January 12th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Shame-

    Please complete your schema as follows:

    Rivera<Morse<Upton<Stanton

    Carry on.

    ;)

    ————————-

    Lol, is there a place for Hariston or have we moved on from him at this point?

    Kev – depends on who you can get back. If you can get a 3B for Granderson and an OFer for Cano, I think you can hold things down for a while (depending on the level of talent, of course). They have a lot of draft picks this year. They just need to be smarter. If they have to give up Sanchez (I assume they will) you put all your eggs in Murphy and Romine until more money frees up, which will be soon.

  180. BIG AL January 12th, 2013 at 8:57 am

    I have resolved myself to thinking Cashman will make no significant moves this off season, just a few below par additions to fill in the holes, and an announcement saying he feels good about the teams chances in 2013.

    I think Cashman enjoys trying to milk the bull, while teling us it’s a cow, lol.

  181. BIG AL January 12th, 2013 at 9:00 am

    blake January 12th, 2013 at 8:56 am
    I love Hank Aaron….I think he was a great player and went through a lot on and off the field to do what he did…..but just for fairness….I would love it if at least one reporter would pose the question: could Aaron have posted a 1+ OPS at age 39 without amphetamines?

    ************************************************************

    The point I’ve been making all morning. Those that used those little green pills think that was OK.

  182. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 9:00 am

    yankee21 January 12th, 2013 at 8:53 am

    Someone in the media should ask guys like Gossage point blank if he ever took reds or if he saw or knew of any of his fellow players take reds. Was that not cheating?

    —————–

    This is a guy that talked about Mo workload and Joba’s fist pump in similar terms. I love Goose. Everyone has love for crazy old men who like to rant. But his opinion is just that and nothing more. He has the right to have one but like many have pointed out, morality is a tricky thing to judge and evaluate. Probably shouldn’t try to when it comes to baseball. It’s hard enough figuring it out when it comes to important things.

  183. blake January 12th, 2013 at 9:00 am

    Getting Upton opens a lot of doors….as it allows you to potentially trade Granderson or Gardner for other pieces you need

  184. BIG AL January 12th, 2013 at 9:02 am

    Later folks – It’s been fun.

  185. 86w183 January 12th, 2013 at 9:02 am

    If you get one All-Star out of your top five prospects in any given year than you’ve done very well.

    I would tell the Marlins they could have any five prospects they want for Giancarlo. Or a combination of prospects and Nova or Phelps.

    I’d tell the D’Backs they could have any four they want.

    If they could agree on how to divvy ‘em up I’d trade 8 of my top 10 for both of them.

  186. jmills January 12th, 2013 at 9:02 am

    I guess wheeties will just never be enough. Coke could certainly be called an enhancer as it masks pain and lethargy, hence their apparent popularity amongst pushed ballerinas and their poor ankles. Raines used to slide on his stomach to save the vile in the back of the pants.

  187. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 9:04 am

    If they could agree on how to divvy ‘em up I’d trade 8 of my top 10 for both of them.

    86 – HELL. YES.

    It would be insane if they could make something like that happen. Insanely awesome. I don’t think we have enough pieces for both but I like the way you’re thinking :D

  188. Shame Spencer January 12th, 2013 at 9:04 am

    :arrow:

  189. MTU January 12th, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Trisha-

    To this day I thank my Father for the discipline he provided.

    Thought I often resisted his teachings at the time if it were not for him I’m sure I would have sunk to an even lower level.

    He was a wonderful mixture of discipline mixed with compassion.

    I wish he were still with us so I could tell him that. It will just have to wait a while I guess.

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