The cost of Justin Upton
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 11, 2013 
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This doesn’t happen often, but last night we learned the actual cost of a still available trade target.
The guys at FOX Sports first reported, and several others soon confirmed, that Justin Upton used his no-trade clause to turn down a trade to Seattle. It was CBS Sports that first reported the package that Arizona decided was valuable enough to deal Upton: Pitching prospect Taijuan Walker, infield prospect Nick Franklin and young big league relievers Charlie Furbush and Stephen Pryor.
That’s two of the top five prospects from baseball’s second-best minor league system, plus two cost-controlled relievers. According to Ken Rosenthal, one baseball source said that Upton rejecting the deal “saved (Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik)’s job.”
I’ve been trying to come up with a comparable package for the Yankees, but it’s tough.
Baseball America has called Walker “a potential ace” and MLB.com ranked Franklin as the fourth-best shortstop prospect in baseball. The two relievers in the deal have had big league success but neither is eligible for arbitration.
With Manny Banuelos hurt, the Yankees upper-level pitching talent (Brett Marshall, David Phelps, Ivan Nova) doesn’t have Walker’s upside, and the same is true for the Yankees upper-level middle-infielders (Eduardo Nunez, Corban Joseph, David Adams) compared to Franklin. Dave Robertson and Mark Montgomery would probably be an upgrade on the relievers, but only if the Diamondbacks were OK with paying Robertson and waiting for Montgomery.
What the Yankees have to headline a trade – high-end outfielders, a young catcher, high-risk pitchers — doesn’t match up, player-for-player with the package the Mariners were going to give for Upton. In terms of pure talent, the Yankees could match Seattle’s offer, but if the Mariners were going to give two of their top five prospects, I have to think the Yankees would have to give two of their top four.
Would the Yankees give up a key chunk of the farm system to bank their future on Upton? Would you want them to?
Chad-
You’re about a week or two late with this post.
Jerkface January 11th, 2013 at 11:42 am
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c…../index.htm
An article about PEDs in baseball & other sports… from 1969
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Someone send that to Goosage please.
Great question chad, that’s why the injuries to Pineda, banuelos; other position players and the ineffectiveness of betances has hurt the yankees negotiating power.
If the Yankees were serious about getting Upton they offer Towers a list of players and say pick 3/4.
Do it Chinese menu style.
One from column A, one from Column B, and so on.
If that doesn’t cut it you pass.
People should have known even before the Seattle offer that Upton wasn’t coming cheap.
It really isn’t news, or at least it shouldn’t be IMO.
His cieling is Superstar. Only question is whether you think he’ll reach it.
MTU January 11th, 2013 at 11:57 am
Chad-
You’re about a week or two late with this post.
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But there’s no denying the man looks fantastic, even when late to the party!!
And I use the term ‘party’ loosely.. although I like to think that the days here range from that awkward ‘post-wake’ party to ‘surprise’ party status.
@JackCurryYES
Yankees called the Nats about Morse after LaRoche signing, but Nats weren’t ready to talk trade yet. The two teams will eventually talk.
?@JackCurryYES
For teams that need a RH with power, Morse is at the top of a flimsy list. Mike Rizzo, the Nats GM, has said they won’t “give” Morse away.
@Yankees
Yogi’s thinking about joining Twitter. RT this to show the #Yankees icon you want him on Twitter! #GetYogiOnTwitter
@YankeeSource
If Banuelos, Campos didn’t have the year they did, the Yankees would be a lot noisier in the rumor mill.
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LOL.
Well that’s swell for Rizzo because Morse isn’t exactly Mantle and he is a 1 yr. rental.
He isn’t going to get that much for him.
The guy’s D is a zero as well.
He’s basically a 30′ish DH on a 1 yr assignment.
I’m a little disappointed there are no games tomorrow.. Chad and I would look fantastic showing up fashionably late.
At this rate, we might be joined by half our roster.
All this hype over Morse makes one nostalgic for the days of Ruben Sierra. Things were so simple back then. Ruben Sierra was merely part of the supporting cast. Morse is needed as a lynchpin righty in the lineup who could hit 5th and could cost the Yankees a real prospect.
This Blog, (Chad included) continues to reference “Baseball America” as the, “end-all-be-all”. That’s absolute Hog Wash. And comparing young, improving players with MLB bona fides, to Bushers that have NOT had Any MLB experience what-so-ever, is also Hog Wash. My 1st priority would be to trade Cano. Maybe then I would have an additional chip or 2 that could be used inna Upton deal.
Shame-
I thought you and I were a “pretend” item.
Now I find I’ve been tossed for a young, handsome Sportswriter.
Life just ain’t fair.
LOL.
Shame
He’s Cashman’s alter-ego.
“Would the Yankees give up a key chunk of the farm system to bank their future on Upton? Would you want them to?”
a chunk yes…..the whole thing no…..this is a special opportunity for the Yankees to get a player with top 10 in the game ability at 25 years old.
MTU – Us Eye-talian girls have a way of breaking your heart, huh? Actually, my relationship (shut up, all of you!) with Chad began during a chat a while back when someone posted a question from Chad’s Girls. I immediately thought it was upstate kate or Erin, who were still frequenting the blog regularly. I asked and they both thought it must have been me
The rest is history and I will fondly recount the tale when Chad and I finally make it official (and once he stops trying to resist my feminine wiles).
Rich – He MUST be. For the longest time I couldn’t figure out if YankeeSource was just a fan or actually affiliated with the club.
“I’m surprised to hear that there’s anger, if you see what we’ve done this offseason,” he said. “We’ve signed three or four of the top free agents that were on the market, because we’re going to continue to field a championship-caliber team.”
He was referring to Hiroki Kuroda, Andy Pettitte, Ichiro Suzuki and Kevin Youkilis, although he also said, “We’ve got some work to do, still. We need another bat. We’re not done yet.”
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How do Ichiro and Youkilis qualify as ‘top free agents’ when there was no other market for either? We literally had to pay Youk double what other teams (one!) were offering to come here.
This is from Davidoff’s article: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....pPTJ37ERkJ
I think Hal just doesn’t know a damn thing about baseball.
“a chunk yes…..the whole thing no…..this is a special opportunity for the Yankees to get a player with top 10 in the game ability at 25 years old.”
The key is for them to identify the kids they won’t give up. They key for us to hope they’re right.
Again, I really wish this (and Stanton) can be pushed forward to at least mid-season when these kids will likely have more value.
Yes Shame you do.
My heart was broken long ago by Claudia, Gina, and Sophia’s disappearnce from the scene.
You are just the latest.
I also love that StubHub is somehow to blame for empty seats during the playoffs…. if anything StubHub should help fill the Stadium, not the other way around.
I think they should just release Kuroda, Pettitte, Rivera and Ichiro as most here seem to think they don’t really help the team, they don’t count because they aren’t *new*.
I think Hal knows #’s.
Right now his favorite is 189.
It’s lucky for him.
MTU – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TVREQ_uXw4
jacksquat January 11th, 2013 at 12:32 pm
I think they should just release Kuroda, Pettitte, Rivera and Ichiro as most here seem to think they don’t really help the team, they don’t count because they aren’t *new*.
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That’s a pretty weak argument since they are old, and a year older, and most people are frustrated that other players have left the team and have not been replaced (to anywhere near that missing production, and at all).
jacksquat January 11th, 2013 at 12:32 pm
I think they should just release Kuroda, Pettitte, Rivera and Ichiro as most here seem to think they don’t really help the team, they don’t count because they aren’t *new*.
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Who doesn’t think they help the team?
Ichiro and Youk are not top free agents and we’ll be blessed if Andy pitches 150 innings this year.
They’re treading water, not fixing the leak.
Is it any wonder the Yankee 25 Man Roster has holes you could drive a truck through, when the guy running the entire operation has bean sprouts coming outta his ears, and horse dung spewing from his mouth? Hal’s short interview yesterday was both revealing and embarassing.
“The key is for them to identify the kids they won’t give up. They key for us to hope they’re right.”
there isn’t any of them I wouldn’t give up….the key is the number of them I’d give up
I wonder if the ‘many’ people that think these guys don’t help the club at all are also the ‘many’ people that told Cashman they don’t like homeruns…. ?
11:47am: Jack Curry says the Yankees called about Morse after the LaRoche deal, but the Nationals weren’t ready to talk trade yet. He says the two sides will speak eventually.
http://www.riveraveblues.com
Shame-
WoW.
Yup. Those are the ones.
MTU – You can thank my grandmother. Without her the reference may have gone over my head
Some of you should read your own posts.
This Upton nonsense is simply a rhetorical argument.
As noted in the article the Yankee farm system does not have the necessary depth to satisfy the backs.
Unless they would unload some ofthe major league roster,which is esentially over rated and over paid,this is a franchise in decline and waiting to be sold by second generation money who don’t care one whit about Yankee tradition etc.
Fans need to get over it and hope the new ownership understands the necessity of fielding a competive team EVERY year to support YES and the brand!
Attendance will decline and Yankeeography will not have fans rushing home from work!
Mike Bloomberg should buy the Yankees………..then he won’t have to worry about term limits!
Nice post Comnsnse….. i agree 100 percent !
I too blame Stub Hub for offering fans the chance to buy $100 ticket for $10 and them declining to do so. If they just kept the tickets priced at $100, that stadium would’ve been packed!
“Who doesn’t think they help the team?”
When people have weak arguments, they often overstate it. I’m not sure why.
“there isn’t any of them I wouldn’t give up….the key is the number of them I’d give up”
I’d like to keep Sanchez .
Nats are gonna stall until Hairston falls off the market and the Yankees have fewer options.
Ok, everyone who has said something to the effect that Kuroda, Pettitte, Mariano and Ichiro were “just resigns” raise their hand.
“I’d like to keep Sanchez .”
hes the one I’d most like to keep yes….
Raise your hand if you think they shouldn’t have signed Kuroda, Pettitte, and Rivrea or that they should release them.
jacksquat January 11th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
Ok, everyone who has said something to the effect that Kuroda, Pettitte, Mariano and Ichiro were “just resigns” raise their hand.
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Not the same argument as saying ‘many’ people believe they aren’t helpful.
They’re very helpful… in 2013.
The theme is they’re ‘just resigns’ that you can’t keep next year. Certainly not all of them. Andy, Kuroda and Mo all get paid.
And Ichiro and Youk hardly count as ‘top free agents,’ which was where (I think?) this discussion started.
If there are that many posts calling them ‘just resigns’ though, why don’t you post them so we can discuss real opinions and not phantom opinions?
Raise your hand if you are one of the several that have posted “Gardner is never healthy”.
“Raise your hand if you are one of the several that have posted “Gardner is never healthy”.”
Thanks for conceding that your prior point was absurd.
Shame-
Bellissimo.
God bless your Grandmother.
It’s obvious she can teach you some things about classical Italian beauties.
got to run. Catch you later.
As for Gardner, injuries have hampered his last two seasons at a time when he should be entering his prime and the Yankees have a need for his skills.
Please, the entire theme of this blog is negative, it’s as if most people here think the Yankees are a 3rd or 4th place team (without bad luck). The guys who were “just resigned” being almost afterthoughts is just part of that theme.
The Yankees have’t done things exactly as I would have but lately you’d think this is a Minnesota Twins blog or something.
Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
As for Gardner, injuries have hampered his last two seasons at a time when he should be entering his prime and the Yankees have a need for his skills.
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One season, out of basically his entire time in the majors with the Yankees. You could even say that in that one season the Yankees misdiagnosed his injury and he should have gotten surgery sooner.
In 2009 Gardner shared time in the OF. In 2010 he played 150 games and in 2011 he played 159 games, 6.2 WAR in 2010 and 5.2 WAR in 2012.
He is not injured all the time. Yet people keep posting this over and over despite it being disproven over and over.
Why haven’t we heard anything about Dickerson yet?
From 2004…..
Mariners shortstop Mike Morse is a near-split image of the now third baseman of the Bronx Bombers, and appears to be emulating one of his heroes.
“I try,” Morse said of the A-Rod impersonation, laughing. “He?s been such a big influence on me since I got drafted. He made it legit for big guys to play short and turn it into an offensive position. Well, Ripken was first, but A-Rod took it to another level.”
http://www.baseballamerica.com.....morse.html
Whatever happened to greenberet7 or whatever his handle was?
“Please, the entire theme of this blog is negative,”
That’s your opinion. It’s not necessarily fact, and who cares what you or I or anyone thinks? People have a right to express themselves within the bounds of civility.
Similarly, people have a right to be positive or negative. What you may call negative, I call it objective realism (depending on the exact sentiment at issue).
That realism has been more about inability of the Yankees to maximize their resources, by making the best decisions in MLB. That’s the standard that Cashman set when he got more power at the end of 2005, and it hasn’t happened.
@jcrasnick: Scott Boras on his players still being unsigned: “It really doesn’t matter what time dinner is when you’re the steak.”
In 2009 Gardner shared time in the OF. In 2010 he played 150 games and in 2011 he played 159 games, 6.2 WAR in 2010 and 5.2 WAR in 2012.
He is not injured all the time. Yet people keep posting this over and over despite it being disproven over and over.
__
I am well aware that he played 159 games in 2011. But here are his splits:
1st half: .265 .348 .394 .742
2nd half: .252 .342 .341 .683
So injury almost certainly affected his production, and that’s two consecutive prime seasons that have been affected. Calling it injured all the time is short-hand for that.
Of greater importance, so what? It’s no like he is a foundation player that you can build a team around. He’s basically a fungible asset, and further proof that the pipeline of talent that Cashman promised at the end of 2005 doesn’t yet exist.
What is proved over and over again is that you have trouble with opinions that don’t coincide with your own, no matter how skewed your opinion is.
Gardner hurt his wrist, he didn’t miss many games but it did happen. That he can play through it and still be a defensive asset is awesome, but he needs to stay healthy for an entire season.
The blog is an assortment of people with varied opinions. Isn’t that the point?
There is much to be negative about these days. I, for one, will say what I believe. This is a team that has pull it’s eggs in the 2013 basket. Unfortunately, there are holes in the basket at catcher, right handed hitter and DH. Plus, the straw in most of the basket is old and fraying which we hope can hold up.
The future years seems dependent upon the farm system producing a plethora of productively years quickly. Good luck with that “plan”.
And its been a couple years since Cashman was put in complete control of basket production, and boy he is looking a real sad Etsy basket instead of a basket you’d find in an upscale basket store.
blake January 11th, 2013 at 1:47 pm
@jcrasnick: Scott Boras on his players still being unsigned: “It really doesn’t matter what time dinner is when you’re the steak.”
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I love to hate Boras…. the man is a brilliant wordsmith.
The more I read those Hal comments from yesterday, the more I shake my head. “Ignorance is bliss”.
My theory: jacksquat is just being cranky, his annoyance at the tone he perceives here having boiled over, just as some of you felt your own annoyance boil over after Hal’s comments were published yesterday.
I’ve never heard of a store dedicated solely to selling baskets
You’ve clearly never been to Baskets, Baskets, and Beyond
The beyond is more baskets
Baskets ‘R Us is too big for me, but I enjoy Baby Baskets.
“Baskets, Baskets, and Beyond”
Insert Jeter joke here.
I’d like to see Hal play a game of catch. I seriously doubt he has Any idea how to even properly throw a baseball.
The guys who were “just resigned” being almost afterthoughts is just part of that theme.
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Not afterthoughts but it’s disingenuous for Hal to say they signed 3 or 4 of the biggest free agents on the market.
Hal, unlike his father, must hate big introductory pressers.
Ultimately Yankees made the playoffs in a close race, so ticket sales all the way thru to the end. The made the playoffs and won the first round. And got to the ALCS. So financially it is a solid season for them. So if this is the true motivation of the bottom line, should we be wishing for a poor year this year and missing the playoffs? Last time that happened CC and Tex plus Swish showed up. It does feel like Hal has taken a bit of the Sox playbook, let’s get to the playoffs and anything can happen. Worst case we make it and make money. The ultimate financial failure for this team becomes missing the playoffs. And now, in this environment, I think that would be enough of a loss to the brand and the bottom line that it would force their hands in dropping this whole payroll cap.
Jerkface January 11th, 2013 at 2:05 pm
And its been a couple years since Cashman was put in complete control of basket production, and boy he is looking a real sad Etsy basket instead of a basket you’d find in an upscale basket store.
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Oh please. He’s never in control. Whenever this team makes dumbas sed decisions, it’s ownership not him. Stop making excuses for him.
HE stupidly gave Pettitte $2M more than Mo for 2013.
HE stupidly gave Youkilis double what Mark Reynolds got and FOUR TIMES what Chavez got from Arizona got. Had he told Youkilis $6M that’s it, Youkilis would’ve taken it for a $6M savings. Add $1.2M he promised Matt Diaz if he makes the team and about $800K he promised David Herndon if he makes the team and that’s $8M you could put towards a two-year $6M a year deal for Scott Hairston.
HE stupidly let go of Chavez who would’ve been the perfect platoon partner with Jeff Baker who Cashman won’t sign cuz he’s an a ss.
HE stupidly didn’t tell Pettitte $7.5M base or 75% of Mo’s salary and sign Scott Baker to the deal he got from the Cubs. Pettitte would’ve taken the $7.5M and the Yanks would’ve had him and Baker for $13M a mil more than what Pettitte got (up to $14.5M if Baker collected all his incentives money.) Sabathia/Kuroda/Pettitte/Baker/Hughes would’ve meant the Yanks could’ve packaged Hughes, Nova, or Phelps in a deal for a righthanded hitter.
HE stupidly gave Ichiro two years when Ichiro is too old to get two years and had zero leverage. He would’ve signed with the Red Sox or Phillies? Really? Ok, sign with a team who won 69 games last year (Red Sox) or a team who finished .500 last year (Phillies) – you’re winning jack with either and you’re not at an age where you can afford to waste a year.
HE stupidly let Martin walk for essentially not wanting to give Martin a measly ONE MILLION DOLLAR RAISE as Martin will make $8.5M in 2013 and the same in 2014 for lousy Pittsburgh.
HE stupidly thinks any two from Stewart, Romine, and Cervelli is the answer for C.
Cashman is an overrated fraud. He has never won and will never win a World Series without The Core Four acquired by Gene Michael. I guarantee you that if the Yanks fired Cashman after 2013 he would not be missed. Other GMs think he’s a joke now after that ridiculous Montero trade. He used to be the fleecer, now he’s the fleecee (fleeced.) Pettitte wanting to come back again and again has been saving his job for years. He’s very lucky Pettitte wanted to come back and Kuroda left more years and money on the table to come back, or he’d have been fired or at least on the hot seat. And if he had lost either or both he still wouldn’t have went for Scott Baker who posted a 3.14 ERA and 1.167 WHIP for 2012 Minnesota or got tough with Edwin Jackson and said same deal the Cubs got Baker to take (one year for $5.5M base + $1.5M incentives.)
hm i said cashman was in control, why are you suggesting I said otherwise? Or did you just misconstrue that so you could write 1500 words about it?
Duh innings you just wrote a page long essay in response to a joke post. Think about that for a few minutes…
Actually Youkilis would have told Cashman to go kick rocks and signed a two year deal with the Dodgers or Cleveland.
We need character limits per post. Nothing more than 140.
In response to the original post
Yankees farm system has a bad year last year
They have no T. Walker equal at any position
They would like have to pair Sanchez and Williams plus Banelous to match the minor league talent
Needless to say I would not do that