“These young players have to step up… “
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 11, 2013 
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These are Hal Steinbrenner’s words from yesterday:
“I’ve been resolute that (getting below $189 million in 2014) is our goal. And that is our goal. But I’ve also said, including at spring training a year ago, that in order to achieve that goal, these young players have to step up and get the job done. How many World Series winning teams the last 10 years had a payroll over 189? One. You don’t have to have a $200 million payroll to do that. And I’m a big believer in that. But you’ve got to have a good mix of veterans and young talent. … If the young players, the Phelps of the world, who did step up continue to do that and some of the other guys like Banuelos, Pineda we’ve yet to see. If they get the job done, the math works.”
Counting on young players — especially young players coming back from injuries — is a big if, and it remains to be seen whether the Yankees will change their financial plans if those young players don’t get the job done and the math doesn’t work.
But let’s say, just for the sake of argument, that it is possible; that there are enough young players in place to help the Yankees limit spending without sacrificing wins and losses. Who are those players, what do they need to show this year, and what would the Yankees count on them to do next year?
Here are six names — well, actually 27 names – to consider.
MICHAEL PINEDA
Last year – You know the story. The reason the Yankees were willing to trade Jesus Montero, turned out Pineda had a bum shoulder that cost him the entire season.
This year – Not expected back until June or so, there’s still no real sense of how good he can be in the wake of that injury. Shoulder injuries are brutal and pitchers don’t always recover, but the Yankees will need to at least see him in New York to have any realistic hope of him being what they expected a year ago.
Next year – In a perfect world, Pineda would come back strong this season, make an impact in the second half and set himself up as a potential No. 2 starter in 2014. At the very least the Yankees need Pineda to come back strong enough to be a back-of-the-rotation arm capable of giving them cheap, effecitive innings.
See also: Ivan Nova renewing hopes of being a No. 3/4 starter; David Phelps further establishing himself in the big leagues; Dave Robertson setting himself up as an obvoius heir to the ninth inning.
MANNY BANUELOS
Last year – Came into the season as one of the most hyped pitching prospects in the game, but an elbow injury sidelined him and eventually required Tommy John surgery.
This year – Out of the picture. Banuelos will be rehabbing all year, which means the Yankees won’t get a good look at him. Next winter is when they should have a better idea of how well he’s recovered.
Next year – This isn’t a shoulder surgery, it’s an elbow surgery, and pitchers come back from Tommy John with some regularity these days. The hope is that Banuelos hasn’t been halted, he’s simply been delayed. Maybe it takes a couple of Triple-A months to get him ready for 2014, but at some point, the Yankees have to hope that Banuelos is able to pitch — and pitch well — in the big leagues next season, setting himself up to be the future rotation mainstay that the team expected this time last year.
See also: Brett Marshall and Adam Warren as back-of-the-rotation options; Dellin Betances as a complete wildcard; Jose Ramirez taking a step toward at 2015 debut.
MARK MONTGOMERY
Last year – In his first full season, Montgomery established himself as the top relief prospect in the Yankees system. He’s been compared to Robertson and pitched his way to Double-A where he had 38 strikeouts in 24 innings.
This year – Even if he opens with a return to Double-A, it’s not out of the question that Montgomery could finish this season in New York. He was drafted out of college and has climbed through the system quickly, looking like a legitimate late-inning option in the not-so-distant future. If he doesn’t stumble in the upper-levels, he should be knocking on the door by September.
Next year — Mariano Rivera, Joba Chamberlain, David Aardsma and Boone Logan are each heading toward free agency. That leaves a lot of potential bullpen jobs up for grabs, and Montgomery could legitimately claim one of them. Investing big money in relievers is risky under the best circumstances.
See also: Cesar Cabral with a second chance to stick as a lefty; Chase Whitley looking to continue his rapid ascent; Tommy Kahnle taking his own massive strikeout totals into the upper levels.
AUSTIN ROMINE
Last year – Might have gotten some serious big league playing time, but a back injury cost him almost the entire year and his prospect status took a hit.
This year – No Montero. No Russell Martin. The only thing standing between Romine and the big league job are a handful of career backups. Even if the Yankees decide he needs another month of Triple-A seasoning, Romine has to see this as an opportunity to stake his claim.
Next year — If Romine can prove himself as a capable big league catcher, the Yankees could save considerable money at the position for the next two or three years while hoping Gary Sanchez develops into a star. No position has an in-house solution in place quite like catcher, but Romine’s going to have to earn it and keep it.
See also: Melky Mesa making enough contact to be a toolsy fourth outfielder; Russ Canzler hitting for enough power to be a potent platoon option; Ronnier Mustelier as a legitimate diamond in the rough.
EDUARDO NUNEZ
Last year — Defensive shortcomings were finally too much and the Yankees sent him to Triple-A to focus on the shortstop position and regain some consistency.
This year — One of two things has to happen: Either Nunez shows enough defensive flexibility to legitimately settle in as an offensive utility infielder, or he makes enough strides at shortstop to renew faith that he might have upside as a potential everyday player. Anything short of that and his best role might be as trade bait.
Next year — Depends on Jeter. Depends on his health, his production and whether he accepts that player option for 2014. If things go sour — one way or the other — and the Yankees legitimately need a shortstop for 2014, Nunez might very well be their best (and certainly their cheapest) option. If not, it’s the same situation only a year later.
See also: David Adams and/or Corban Joseph emerging as potential infield regulars; Zoilo Almonte as a switch-hitter with pop (or at least the left side of an outfield platoon); Brett Gardner staying healthy enough to takeover in center field beyond this year.
SLADE HEATHCOTT
Last year – Finally healthy, Heathcott reemerged as one of the Yankees elite prospects, then went to the Arizona Fall League and further solidified that status.
This year — Damon Oppenheimer has suggested Heathcott could play his way to New York this season, but that seems overly optimistic. What the Yankees need is for Heathcott to stay healthy, continue to progress in Double-A and put himself in position for a mid-2014 major league debut (with a chance to impress and surprise as early as next spring training).
Next year — Of the Yankees top four prospects — the ones who clearly stand out from the pack — Heathcott is probably the closest to the big leagues and has the best chance of playing a big league role in 2014. If it’s not out of spring training, it certainly could be sometime during the season and well into the future.
See also: Tyler Austin eyeing 2014 and proving last year wasn’t a fluke; Mason Williams and Gary Sanchez taking success into the upper levels; Jose Campos staying healthy and living up to potential
Associated Press photo of Mustelier
Repost:
Shame Spencer January 11th, 2013 at 9:01 am
Could a three team deal be made between the Yankees, Seattle and DBacks?
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I sure hope so… I didn’t comment last night but saw the news. I was surprised to hear AZ set everything up without consulting JUp until the end. Not surprised he rejected the deal at all.
I know nothing about the M’s prospects offered so I can’t make a comparison between what we’d have to offer… are those guys closer to the bigs than our top talent? I’d imagine so.
I wonder if the Dbacks might not end up putting themselves in a position to have to take less than they wanted for Upton at this point….. god I hope so….
i would venture to say Hal knows about as much of player development as i do, which isn’t much. give them playing time then.
I do wonder how much Hal knows about the guys in our system…
All nice concepts but filled with ???
I like the phrase “prospects are suspects”.
The issue with Pineda is his health.
Longterm he’s a bad bet.
Guess we’re fixing to find out who’s got what.
And IMO Heathcott is an accident waiting to happen.
the problem is that when your goal is WS or bust every year, it’s extremely difficult to incorporate good to marginal talents and give em time and roster spots to develop. a ten year could probably comprehend that, apparently it eludes hal.
i’m psyched to see young guys getting a chance.
the yankees of the last couple of years were old and boring.
Remember how highly touted Melancon was ?
Maybe Montgomery is better. Who knows ?
Maybe he’s a 2nd Robertson. Maybe he’s Melancon.
“Help me out here. Is there any hope that a 3 team trade could be worked out where the Mariners get their power hitter and extend Granderson plus prospect/prospects, the Yankees get Upton and the DBacks get part of the package they wanted from the Mariners and the rest from the Yankees?”
maybe….but I doubt Granderson is what the Mariners are looking for…..maybe if they did Granderson plus prospects. That’s a complex deal though.
Yankees get: Upton and Montero!
Dbacks get: Walker, Franklin etc
Mariners get: Granderson, Mason Williams, Tyler Austin, and Nunez
or something like that……
never happen but Cashman should probably ask since clearly he has a relationship with both those GMs
Get rid of Cashman and Girardi.
Replace them with Friedman and Pruneface.
Pruneface is particularly good with young guys.
We might have lot’s of them for him to work with.
And IMO Heathcott is an accident waiting to happen.
============================
Plays with abandon, but lot of talent there. Heard some say “look at what happened to Sizemore”, but another possible comparison going to the “way back machine” is Fred Lynn. Guy played with a football mentality and was hurt quite often, but if you were told right now you’d get Fred Lynn’s career or anything close to it out of Heathcott, you’d take that all day.
Montgomery is sort of on the periphery for me.. we aren’t nearly as desperate for bullpen arms as we are for position players and the way the team is currently constructed it’s going to take an act of god to get them playing time.
“Maybe he’s a 2nd Robertson. Maybe he’s Melancon.”
his delivery reminds me more of Melancon than Robertson to be honest…..slider is nasty….but I don’t think his fastball will play like Robertson’s does
Maybe Montgomery is better. Who knows ?
===========================
Always a little skeptical of minor league relievers or even guys drafted as relievers. To me, being a reliever at that stage is code for “not good enough to be a starting pitcher”.
I love Heathcott….I’d rather keep him than Mason at this moment in time if somebody made me choose….I think Heathcott has more upside and he’s closer to the big leagues
AAA-
I also see Ellsbury or GGBG.
Spending 1/2 the time on the DL.
I think that’s much more likely.
Some say he’ll change but I doubt you change the spots on a Leopard.
His value is high now. I’d risk trading him since we have Mason and co. behind him.
Watch. He spends the next 10 years playing every day. My crystal ball only takes me so far.
“Always a little skeptical of minor league relievers or even guys drafted as relievers. To me, being a reliever at that stage is code for “not good enough to be a starting pitcher”.
sometimes….but in some cases guys are just better suited for that role. I know a particular set up man in the big leagues and he was made a reliever in high school because he just ran out of gas after 2 or 3 innings as a starter…..
the Yankees have started targeting relievers and making them that early on…..rather than watching them fail as starters then trying to convert them.
i crack up every time you refer to mason williams by his first name.
i guess the standard for ‘one name’ status has changed quite a bit since the days of reggie and rickey.
now all it takes is 1 good year in in A ball…
Time to walk the Mopsters.
They’re already in the bigs (so to speak) and I have no choice but to meet their demands.
Later.
Ken Rosenthal ?@Ken_Rosenthal
Harold Reynolds just said on @MLBNetwork’s “Hot Stove” that Justin Upton repeatedly told #DBacks he would not approve deal to #Mariners.
“i crack up every time you refer to mason williams by his first name”
he’s the only Mason we have to my knowledge and I’m too lazy to type out Mason Williams every time.
Here’s John Sickels take on the Mariner’s prospects that were potentially in a deal for Upton, and their ranking:
One of these first 3 from Column A, Franklin, Pryor and Furbush for Upton.
2) Taijuan Walker, RHP, Grade A-: Some slippage in his numbers, but that’s forgivable for the youngest pitcher in the Double-A Southern League. Still has premium combination of fastball, breaking stuff, developing changeup, high upside.
3) Danny Hultzen, LHP, Grade B+: I will be honest, I am not comfortable with Hultzen’s grade or his placement here and may revise it significantly before the book goes to press. I think it is a mistake to dismiss his Triple-A struggles too cavalierly. His command was just too poor at that level for us to ignore, especially given his past reputation and track record. I’m nosing around about this one and gathering more info and opinion, so stand by.
4) James Paxton, LHP, Grade B+: He still has occasional command troubles but the stuff is first class, love the 92-95 fastball and big-breaking curve. Number two starter upside. Very good season in Double-A (3.05 ERA, 110/54 K/BB in 106 innings).
5) Nick Franklin SS, Grade B+: I trust my eyes on this one, good tools across the board and the skills are in there. Is he a second baseman or a shortstop? I’d give him a chance at short. Needs another half-season in Triple-A following .243/.310/.416 line at Tacoma.
11) Stephen Pryor, RHP, Grade C+: Borderline B-. Like Capps, tough to grade. Stuff is almost as good as Capps, and he’s another guy with closer potential if the command sharpens up a bit more.
http://www.minorleagueball.com.....s-for-2013
What would the Yankees have to match up then in a one on one trade with Diamondbacks? Towers was getting 3 pitchers, two in Furbush and Pryor that pitched with the parent club, one of their top 3 prospects[ 2 at AA, one at AAA]
and a SS/2B promoted to AAA whose numbers were not that good there.
Still no possibility here???
I’d like to keep mason austin and heathcott and see if we could maybe have a young good of in late 2014 early 2015
The problem with this is the Yankees need all or virtually all of these guys to contribute in significant ways in 2014. That is highly unlikely.
My best hope for a top end player is Heathcott. He does have the tools in he can use them approriately.
Montgomery has an average fastball, from my limited observation. It is 90-92 without any evident significant movement. the question is whether MLB players will lay off his slider when the players in the minors could not. One never knows until it happens.
but curiously you always refer to tyler austin as austin
“What would the Yankees have to match up then in a one on one trade with Diamondbacks? ”
probably 2 of the top 4 prospects, Nova or Phelps, Montgomery and another guy……if Towers demanded that top pitching prospect then the Yanks can’t match up.
“but curiously you always refer to tyler austin as austin”
what difference does it make?
I think what I am most looking forward to is seeing if the young, upside guys get some playing time in the spring. I would love to see them play, either for the first time or one of the few.
It is time for spring training. I am now tired of waiting and waiting for action.
it doesnt make any of a difference really, i just think a lower level minor leaguer doesn’t rate that.
Blake -
You must be giddy.
Not only did JUps reject a trade to the Mariners, but the Rangers have said they’re not going to re-engage Arizona for him, and we have, thanks to the Seattle Mariners, a baseline of what the D’backs want for Upton.
im hoping more of the (non pitching) yankees veterans go play in the wbc so some of these guys are front and center early in camp
Blake,
Since Mason –er–Williams likes Michael Jordan maybe you can call him MW. I hate for you to get criticized to have the nerve of calling someone by their first name, even if it is more unique than Williams.
Some among us wake up in the morning looking to criticize others of us. I hope it gives them some joy since it often seems misplaced to me.
I appreciated Hal’s comments – especially the part about how while $189 is a goal it’s not a goal that will take the place of winning as the club’s top priority and if the young players don’t step up they will adjust course to ensure they field a competitive team. My question though is that if Hal has to pay for players, does Brian – who has built this farm system – pay with his job?
“it doesnt make any of a difference really, i just think a lower level minor leaguer doesn’t rate that.”
uhm ok…..neither did calling kids the “killer B’s” but it’s just a shorthand way to name him….if you don’t think he deserves a one name label then why won’t you trade him for Justin Upton
Such a strange discussion.
I mix and match names all the time. Derek or Jeter? Mo or Mariano or Rivera? Andy or Pettitte?
I use ‘em all.
I’m worn out from Upton/Headley type talk. Morse might be possible, but Juan Rivera might be the most likely RH bat to be added.
Still think Luke Scott as platoon DH/5th OF makes some sense.
i think cashman’s statement about romine was the right stance, he isnt our starter but he’s got a shot with a good ST. now if cervelli goes and plays in the wbc, they can give romine a ton of playing time w/o seeming to hand romine the starting job.
make him earn it, but make sure he gets a chance to do that.
“You must be giddy.”
not really cause he’s probably going to Atlanta….though the Braves are my NL team
i didnt say i wouldn’t trade williams for upton, i said i wouldnt give as big a package as you would for upton.
i pulled willliams out of the deal you proposed and replaced him with another b prospect but i could just as easily have pulled austin.
i just wouldnt’ give them both plus nova plus adams.
which one doesnt belong in this group:
Derek or Jeter? Mo or Mariano or Rivera? Andy or Pettitte, Mason or Williams?
I would ideally love to see the Yankee kids step up. An exciting team of 23 – 27 year olds would be something. I mean if the Yankees DH this season to open up is Mustellier and the bench has guys like Mesa, Nunez and Canzler – that’s fine.
If David Adams shows enough in the early part of this season at AAA to force the Yankees to give him a shot at 3b in the show – wonderful
If Corban Joseph gives the Yankees reason to think that they can survive without giving Cano an 8 year deal – outstanding.
If they’re good enough – I would have no issue with a 2014 roster of:
RF – Ichiro
SS – Jeter
3b – Adams
1b – Tex
DH – Alex
CF – Heathcott
LF – Zoilo Almonte
C – Romine
2b – Joseph
Bench: Mustellier, Stewart, Abe Almonte, Canzler
CC, Pineda, Nova, Phelps, Banuelos
Pen is fungible – I don’t really know the relief guys that well
Chip look at the post above that has John Sickels ratings of the top 20 Mariner prospects and check out his rating of the Yankees top 20.
http://www.minorleagueball.com.....s-for-2013
To match the deal need two pitchers on the Yankees parent club, one of their highest ranked minor league pitchers at AA or AAA and a SS/2B.
Is there a possibility of a match for Upton?
Start with Phelps in place Furbush and maybe Joba? in place of Pryor, Adams in place of Franklin and Marshall. Yankees giving up better major league pitchers than the Mariners, but a lesser minor league pitching prospect.
Can you fathom a realistic deal here?
hey i just made the comment that it cracks me up, im not asking anyone to change how they refer to players.
it was just an observation.
The problem with getting Upton is; what would Girardi call him? “Just” “Ups” nothing works. They can sign Hairston and he’ll go with “Scotty” or trade for Morse and it can be either “Mikey” or “Morsey”
If Youk’s a Yankee and both Beckett and Papelbon are in the NL, then who exactly is Heathcott going to pummel when he’s called up?
I guess he could take out Pedroia but that doesn’t even sound fair.
Trader -
If I had to put one together I would say:
Nova, Phelps, Tyler Austin and Mark Montgomery or David Robertson.
Trader – keep in mind though that there were a lot of observers who thought the Mariners were lucky to have Upton turn down the trade because they felt Seattle was overpaying big time for Upton.
“In a perfect world, Pineda would come back strong this season, make an impact in the second half and set himself up as a potential No. 2 starter in 2014. ”
the chance of that happening is pretty low. so low it’s absurd to even factor pineda into yankee plans for 2013. anything the yankees get out of him will be a plus.
i believe pineda’s motion created the injury. even if he comes back from this injury he had a lot he had to learn before the injury. with that spinning off balance delivery that puts a lot of strain on his arm, what are the chances that even if pineda does come back that he won’t injure himself again.
i said when i first saw him that he looked like a reliever. i don’t believe his motion will stand up to starting. i think pineda’s story if the yankees push him to be a starter will be as a constantly injured tease always out there but rarely contributing.
if they develop him as a two pitch reliever they might get some value out of him.
Chip-
That’s Franklin and Marshall the players, not the fine college in Lancaster, PA.
Yankee Trader January 11th, 2013 at 9:48 am
Chip-
That’s Franklin and Marshall the players, not the fine college in Lancaster, PA.
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Ah that’s good – I was befuddled as to how I would get Columbia over to Phoenix.
chip, you’re not advocating offering nova, phelps, roberson and a top minor league prospect for upton right?
just trying to estimate an equivalent i hope?
Chip,
I get the desire for young players but that team is under .500. Maybe far under.
austinmac January 11th, 2013 at 9:50 am
Chip,
I get the desire for young players but that team is under .500. Maybe far under.
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As I said, if the players are ready then I’m fine with it. But if they’re not major league ready then you are right.
YS GUy –
Correct.
The offer I would make is:
Nova, Robertson, Adams, Nunez, Marshall for Upton and Chris Johnson.
Good post, but depressing. We will be lucky if these 6 Yanks prospects become adequate major leaguers in 2014. There’s little chance that they will be stars by then.
IMHO the Yanks should be using their money to get the very best scouts, manages, coaches, medical evaluators, etc. That’s the way to build a strong team without incurring huge penalties on their player salaries.
David in Cal January 11th, 2013 at 9:57 am
IMHO the Yanks should be using their money to get the very best scouts, manages, coaches, medical evaluators, etc. That’s the way to build a strong team without incurring huge penalties on their player salaries.
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Agree 100%
grahamdude
Sports Illustrated article from 1969 on PEDs in sports: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...../index.htm … (H/T @Greg_Schaum)
The name ‘Williams’ is way too common to just call the kid Williams all the time.
Nova, Robertson, Adams, Nunez, Marshall for Upton and Chris Johnson.
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That’s a heartbeat deal.
Have to go, Everyone have a great day.
Predictions subject to change on a whim!
Justin Upton joins his brother in Atlanta.
Michael Morse gets traded to the Yankees. Logan in the deal.
Mariners end up with Michael Bourn.
Until later.
Shame Spencer January 11th, 2013 at 10:14 am
Nova, Robertson, Adams, Nunez, Marshall for Upton and Chris Johnson.
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That’s a heartbeat deal.
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Yeah but it gives the Yankees a cornerstone OF and a solid young 3b going forward.
Mason is way shorter. Austin is as short as Tyler. Silly thing, its not anything to do with respect or single name status. Its about communicating information.
Shame –
Sorry, I misread that – I thought you said “Heartbreaker” not “heartbeat”
“The name ‘Williams’ is way too common to just call the kid Williams all the time.”
why would I disrespect Bernie by calling an A ball guy “williams”!
“Nova, Robertson, Adams, Nunez, Marshall for Upton and Chris Johnson.”
don’t think the Dbacks would do that deal.
Blake,
Probably not – I would probably be willing to kick in Tyler Austin.
why would I disrespect Bernie by calling an A ball guy “williams”!
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There’s only room for one Williams in Yankee lingo!!
Chip – Yeah, I meant I’d do that deal in a heartbeat… can’t imagine AZ would but my hope is they have to lower their asking price at this point given Upton must be even more P.O.ed than he was before.
Conor asks: Would trading one of Tyler Austin, Mason Williams or Slade Heathcott for Nick Castellanos make sense for both teams? The Tigers are going to have him move to right field since they have Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder at the infield corners. Seems that trading him for a player whose already demonstrated he can play the outfield is a better idea.
Now that’s interesting. Castellanos is a one of the best prospects in baseball — Baseball America ranked him 11th overall while Keith Law ranked him 18th in their midseason updates — thanks to a career .316/.367/.443 batting line with 17 homers in 276 minor league games. Baseball America recently ranked him as Detroit’s top prospect, saying he’s “[o]ne of the best pure hitters in the minor leagues” in their subscriber-only scouting report. Since Cabrera, Fielder, and Victor Martinez are clogging the infield corners and DH spot, the Tigers shifted Castellanos from third base to right field this past July. Baseball America said “he could be an average outfielder” with experience.
The Yankees have plenty of high-end outfield prospects as you mentioned, as both Williams (#28) and Austin (#39) cracked Baseball America’s midseason update (Williams made Law’s, which was only 25 players deep). New York would probably have to kick in a little something extra, but a Castellanos-for-Williams trade (for example) isn’t outrageous at all. Both have their own red flags (Williams is coming off shoulder surgery, Castellanos strikes out a lot for a guy who hasn’t shown much power yet), but Castellanos doesn’t have an obvious spot with the Tigers while Williams would be coming from a position of depth. Prospect-for-prospect trades rarely happen because every team loves their prospects more than everyone else’s, but I do think a swap like this makes some sense for both clubs.
http://www.riveraveblues.com
makes sense….you just rarely see prospect for prospect deals. About 2 years ago (when the Yanks still had Montero)…..I suggested that they try to trade Gary Sanchez for Profar……
The relationship between Upton and AZ might be so strained they have to just take the best deal they can get….. I wonder if Upton would automatically veto any deal to the teams on his no trade list or if he just really didn’t wanna play for the M’s.
Blake -
The Yankees have far more OF prospects than they can use and not nearly enough IF prospects so from that standpoint the deal makes sense.
Did Melancon dominate the minors the same way Monty is doing? His slider is totally nasty. But yeah, the fastball isn’t as good.
Also, we’ve seen this song and dance about relying on the youngsters. Back in 2008. It’s risky.
“The Yankees have far more OF prospects than they can use and not nearly enough IF prospects so from that standpoint the deal makes sense.”
it makes a lot of sense….I’d trade any of the OF prospects for Castellanos simply because they have 3 of them and they really need a 3B…..but again…..those type deals really never happen.
“Did Melancon dominate the minors the same way Monty is doing? His slider is totally nasty. But yeah, the fastball isn’t as good.”
in the lower levels Melancon was pretty darn dominant……his K rates weren’t near as good as Monty’s though. Montgomery had been pretty unhittable so far.
Did Melancon dominate the minors the same way Monty is doing? His slider is totally nasty. But yeah, the fastball isn’t as good.
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Yes, he trashed minor league hitters non-stop. I always thought he’d be better overall than Robertson because he constantly would throw 2 innings in about 20 pitches, with multiple K’s & groundballs. He didn’t have D-rob’s insane K rate, but he barely walked anyone and gave up no hits basically.
The thing that always got me was the Yankees minor league guys (newman maybe) said he passed their stress test or something & graded out as a closer. It was like a brain test or something.
Still think he could have succeeded here if given more of a shot.
Where is Castellanos developmentally? Is he on the cusp of big league play like Olt? Would the Tigers be willing to accept a guy further back in the system but one that fills a future need?
Interesting..
It was like a brain test or something.
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Maybe they should start doing these in the front office!
I actually refer to all Yanks prospects as “baby jesus” with a number designation behind that.
Frustrating how the Yanks handled Banuelos. They “rested” him the entire season hoping that he would recover from his elbow strain only to finally decide on TJ surgery. So he wastes two entire seasons instead of just one. If the Yanks’ future rests on this type of development, I am worried.
tucker January 11th, 2013 at 10:39 am
Frustrating how the Yanks handled Banuelos. They “rested” him the entire season hoping that he would recover from his elbow strain only to finally decide on TJ surgery. So he wastes two entire seasons instead of just one. If the Yanks’ future rests on this type of development, I am worried.
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They’ve had a couple of instances over the last 3-4 seasons that have gotten me more concerned about their medical evaluations… Pineda, Hughes, Gardner, Arod, and Banuelos… this is the antithesis of McDonalds, people. I am NOT lovin’ it.
“Where is Castellanos developmentally? Is he on the cusp of big league play like Olt? Would the Tigers be willing to accept a guy further back in the system but one that fills a future need?”
pretty advanced hitter….opo power….struggled a bit in AA and in the AFL though….needs a bit more time in the minors but I’d say he’s about the same level as Heathcott and Austin….maybe a bit closer. Not as close as Olt…..
i always question how these decisions are made about resting vs. surgery.
certainly the player has something to say about it, right? the team can’t force a player to have surgery if and of the teams or his doctors say it’s not absolutely necessary can they?
what if the medical people are split? what if the player goes for a second opinion and his doctor disagrees with the team dr.?
i dont think it’s as easy as just ‘the decided’ to do this or that.
They are doing the same thing with Campos…..lets hope he doesn’t end up getting TJS in the end as well….
Banuelos is essentially 3 years away. You factor in his injury, which takes him out of the entire season next year because of their hilariously bad timing. He’ll get in winterball probably. Then you have to consider his career high in innings is 129. That happened in 2011. So in 2014, when he can finally pitch a full season, he will have been 3 years removed from a pathetic career high.
I honestly don’t care how long prospects spend in the minors, but I do care about the players being properly prepared to handle the amount of playing time a MLB pitcher is required to get.
Banuelos is either going to be a LOOGY or be on a ridiculously short innings limit.
instead of unproven minor leaguers making minimum salary stepping up, how about teixeira not sucking for most part of the season and ADud being just league replacement useful, among many underperforming veterans last year & during post-season. it’s easy to pick on minimum wage AAA players but not so much of these underperforming veterans with albatross contracts making $20MM+ for sucking so many years/post-seasons in a row. right, hal steinbrenner?
Love the idea of adding young players. Would be ideal. But let’s be real. Hal singling out guys who have already been hurt isn’t exactly a prudent business plan. I think it’s fair to question Manny, Pineda and Heathcott’s ability to stay healthy. Not long ago it was the 3 Bs although Manny was the only one I was high on anyway. Even at the big league level it takes some time to develop just as it took Cano a while. To expect these guys to “step up” is absurd. Step up means filling gaps, not leading this team. They have Arod, Jeter, etc with big time deals. No one is stepping up to replace their numbers so soon. You save on the back end of a rotation, or backend of a lineup or the bullpen. You don’t step-up with minor leaguers to be a cleanup hitter, leadoff hitter, #1 starter or closer. And that is where all of this is flawed. I agree mixing in the youngsters where we can, but ultimately if the Yankees want to win they can’t suddenly cutoff the taps from spending or they might as well just admit we are in re-building mode.
“i always question how these decisions are made about resting vs. surgery.”
i’m assuming the presence of ligament damage or not…..although it just seems like to me that a high percentage of the time when a guy has elbow troubles it ends up in TJS at some point anyways…..
“Steinbrenner: “I’m surprised to hear that there’s anger if you see what we’ve done this off-season. ”
Chad I’m curious did Hal mention anything about letting the fans eat cake?
Talk about out of touch , sheesh.
per Rotoworld.com
The Dallas Morning News’ Evan Grant reports that the Rangers are “moving on” from a potential trade for Justin Upton.
Just a question. We all know about needing to develop in the minors. But is it unrealistic to think that Mason Williams, Slade or any of the others are that far away? It’s just a question as I have no clue how much development they have had. I mean we were forced into bringing Melky and Cano up. Is it reasonable to think one of these guys will be up sooner than later. Not saying they will excel by any means, but is it important to see these guys up and playing with our old veterans like Jeter or Mariano before they leave? And give you a bit of the youthful exuberance that Nunez and Cervelli at times have given.
Rangers moving on is a ploy as well. They would love to add Upton, but now their willingness to cut a deal for a big prospect package went way down.
blake January 11th, 2013 at 10:42 am
“Where is Castellanos developmentally? Is he on the cusp of big league play like Olt? Would the Tigers be willing to accept a guy further back in the system but one that fills a future need?”
pretty advanced hitter….opo power….struggled a bit in AA and in the AFL though….needs a bit more time in the minors but I’d say he’s about the same level as Heathcott and Austin….maybe a bit closer. Not as close as Olt…..
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So it would be a legitimate swap, player for player… I could get behind Austin for Castellanos. I like the name Castellanos.
Phranchise January 11th, 2013 at 10:48 am
Love the idea of adding young players. Would be ideal. But let’s be real. Hal singling out guys who have already been hurt isn’t exactly a prudent business plan.
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Does he even know they’ve been hurt..? I’m not sure he knows how far away the best talent in their system is.
“You save on the back end of a rotation, or backend of a lineup or the bullpen. You don’t step-up with minor leaguers to be a cleanup hitter, leadoff hitter, #1 starter or closer. And that is where all of this is flawed.”
=========================================================
where did anyone say anything about young guys filling the cleanup spot?
they have 3 veterans who can hit leadoff.
they have a #1 starter
they have a veteran closer and another veteran who’s a potential closer.
the yankees are doing pretty much exactly what you laid out that they should be doing.
Hal’s attempting to explain the empty seats at Yankee Stadium for the ALCS with, “We didn’t know IF we were going to be in the ALCS” (due to being forced into a game 5 vs the O’s), is flat out Weak. Since when does Any Yankee fan, and Especially the owner, anticipate Losing? Hal is flat-out Clueless when it comes to running\ inspiring an organization. He ain’t no “chip off the ol’ block”. NOT by a long shot.
Goose The Gate Keeper has layed down the law at Cooperstown. The man has stones.
Is Hal aware of the Yankees suboptimal record in player development? If yes, why does he expect that to change? Isn’t that a question that writers should be asking him?
Going forward Hal’s arguement is filling in and keeping the payroll below a threshold. You think you have a World Chapionship in two years when Arod is 2 years older, Cano either is making $25 or leaves, Tex has yet to show he can be a consistent 3rd or 4th place hitter here like he used to be. Jeter is two years older. Mariano is gone and no Soraino this year. Ichiro is out. So yes over the next two years you better figure out those key positions as well as the top end of a rotation that depends on Kuroda and Andy P. And couple that with the potential Phil Hughes is out.
Hal said this is more than a one year plan is the point.
Tar January 11th, 2013 at 10:55 am
“Steinbrenner: “I’m surprised to hear that there’s anger if you see what we’ve done this off-season. ”
Chad I’m curious did Hal mention anything about letting the fans eat cake?
Talk about out of touch , sheesh.
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I would have been more upset about giving out bad deals to players like Ibanez and Martin who were sub par performers or overpaying to keep Nick Swisher who has been a post season dud.
“I would have been more upset about giving out bad deals to players like Ibanez and Martin who were sub par performers or overpaying to keep Nick Swisher who has been a post season dud.”
Apart from further fattening Hal’s wallet, how is the Ichiro deal not at least as bad as giving Martin two years, especially given their dire situation at catcher?
Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:03 am
Is Hal aware of the Yankees suboptimal record in player development? If yes, why does he expect that to change? Isn’t that a question that writers should be asking him?
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Hal’s not a baseball guy – but his top baseball guy (Cashman) tells him that he’s got this super crop of prospects, that he’s building the farm system and so on…
I don’t think you can call the Yankee record suboptimal either. Stick Michael always said that there are two ways prospects can help you – by playing for you or by playing for someone else.
Cashman will point to his farm system as having resulted in 1 starter (Hughes) a strong reliever (Robertson) a superstar 2b (Cano) their entire starting OF (Granderson and Ichiro via trade plus Gardner) – that’s not horrible return. The issue is that the Yankee farm system gets so much hype that we expect every prospect to be Derek Jeter.
I’m thrilled that they dumped Nardi in favor of Patterson to run the pitching; and hopefully the position players (at least some of them) can actually be impact players. But even if Abe Almonte, David Adams, Zoilo Almonte, Melky Mesa, etc are nothing other than bench guys – that’s still not bad.
Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:03 am
Is Hal aware of the Yankees suboptimal record in player development? If yes, why does he expect that to change? Isn’t that a question that writers should be asking him?
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The lack of follow up questions never ceases to amaze me.. like they’re all Oprah or something.
And I don’t just mean that in regards to our beat writers and journalists, but it’s across the board in sports, politics, etc.
Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:11 am
“I would have been more upset about giving out bad deals to players like Ibanez and Martin who were sub par performers or overpaying to keep Nick Swisher who has been a post season dud.”
Apart from further fattening Hal’s wallet, how is the Ichiro deal not at least as bad as giving Martin two years, especially given their dire situation at catcher?
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Once Ichiro came over he was a different player than the one who was toiling in Seattle. Martin on the other hand, was awful. I think the Yankees could get just as much production from Romine as they did from Martin for the ML Minimum. On the other hand, they didn’t have anyone who was ML ready in the OF.
With Hal, “performance” has Nothing to do with Ibanez, Martin, and Swisher NOT being retained. The guy is Focused on the cabbage\$$$ involved. You gotta bottom line guy here. NOT a sports fan, and certainly NOT a Yankee Fan. It’s obvious he’s outta touch, when he’s surprised with the anger in Yankee Land. Little Lord Fauntleroy needs to sell this team. He’s outta his element, and dragging down the Best franchise in sports history.
Hopefully the Yankees can add 6 good prospects over these next two years via the draft with 2 additional picks for Swisher and Soriano in 2013 followed by 2 additional picks for Granderson and Hughes in 2014. Plus maybe they sign an international free agent or two over the next couple years. Plus they have second round picks as well.
If they can add 10 prospects over these next 2 seasons then they can trade some of the farm. You have players with upside who are trapped. They won’t be ready for 2014 but don’t have enough trade value now. Give the minor league system one more year and maybe their value rises and you can gut the farm knowing you have a new crop of 10 prospects on the way. You can use some of these tweeners as trade chips to restock for 2014 in the offseason.
Talk about waiting until the last minute.
i didnt mind martin as much as many here did, and thus was shocked by the amount of complaining about the yankees not throwing a ridiculous pile of money at him to keep him (especially from the people who complained the most about him all last season.)
I love Hughes, but considering this might be the first year he puts together solid back to back production, I dunno that he’s proof of anything regarding the Yankees ability to develop players.
With pitchers I suppose it’s harder to evaluate though.. it’s kinda like babies. For anyone on here that has boy baby friends and girl baby friends, the development gap can be pretty noticeable between the two. My brother has all boys but my cousins have girls.. if the girls came first I would have thought my nephews were slow, tbh.
“So it would be a legitimate swap, player for player… I could get behind Austin for Castellanos. I like the name Castellanos.”
think the Yanks might have to add more…..but those two players are similar I’d guess…the kicker though is that Castellanos can play 3B.
“Hal’s not a baseball guy – but his top baseball guy (Cashman) tells him that he’s got this super crop of prospects, that he’s building the farm system and so on…”
But he is sentient, and even a casual observer of the Yankees since the mid-90s should know they haven’t developed players well, and the baseball guy currently in charge has been in charge for the bulk of that period.
“I don’t think you can call the Yankee record suboptimal either. Stick Michael always said that there are two ways prospects can help you – by playing for you or by playing for someone else.”
Stick could point to a bunch of his homegrown players taking on major roles. Cashman can’t.
“Cashman will point to his farm system as having resulted in 1 starter (Hughes) a strong reliever (Robertson) a superstar 2b (Cano) their entire starting OF (Granderson and Ichiro via trade plus Gardner) – that’s not horrible return. The issue is that the Yankee farm system gets so much hype that we expect every prospect to be Derek Jeter”
Hughes? That means that Cashman hasn’t developed a front of the rotation starter, and if Hughes becomes one, he likely can’t keep him.
Yeah, Robertson was a good pick and development job, but he stands out for his uniqueness.
Gardner is never healthy.
Ichiro is nothing really at this point. Can we undo the Granderson trade? And the Melky trade? And the other one to Seattle that shall remain nameless?
In terms of big players, it’s Cano and that’s it.
“I’m thrilled that they dumped Nardi in favor of Patterson to run the pitching; and hopefully the position players (at least some of them) can actually be impact players.”
That it took so long reveals how poorly this thing is run. That should make Hal take notice. Guess not.
“But even if Abe Almonte, David Adams, Zoilo Almonte, Melky Mesa, etc are nothing other than bench guys – that’s still not bad.”"
It’s all speculative as of now.
“Once Ichiro came over he was a different player than the one who was toiling in Seattle. Martin on the other hand, was awful. I think the Yankees could get just as much production from Romine as they did from Martin for the ML Minimum. On the other hand, they didn’t have anyone who was ML ready in the OF.”
A month doesn’t negate two years of decline.
Martin is the best catcher they had, by far.
Stockpiling draft picks\pool $$$, is akin to buying 10 sratch-offs instead of 4. You wanna be Bob Seger and take that, “long shot gamble”, fine. Just don’t whine when your disgustedly throwing those scratch-offs into the garbage can, and heading off to “Fire Lake”.
“The lack of follow up questions never ceases to amaze me.. like they’re all Oprah or something.”
Most owners, GMs, managers get a free ride in big bad NYC, until the wheels fall off, and they they are pilloried by the media.
“And I don’t just mean that in regards to our beat writers and journalists, but it’s across the board in sports, politics, etc.”
Our political press is a disgrace, but I won’t get into that here.
“Stockpiling draft picks\pool $$$, is akin to buying 10 sratch-offs instead of 4. You wanna be Bob Seger and take that, “long shot gamble”, fine. Just don’t whine when your disgustedly throwing those scratch-offs into the garbage can, and heading off to “Fire Lake”.”
how else do you suggest the Yankees get young talent when the international money is capped and they continually pick at the back of the first round…..best way is to get as many picks as you can as that increases your chances of one panning out.
To me the key to the kingdom lies with Pineda – if his injury was relatively minor and he can come back and be effective, he could be a major contributor, but the likelihood of that seems to be very low at this point.
A lot of unknowns with the rotation – you have to assume that Pettitte and Kuroda are done after this season. In an ideal world, they could have CC, Pineda, Hughes, Nova and say Phelps as the 2014 rotation (let’s assume that they re-sign Hughes). That has the potential to be an outstanding rotation, or, if several players fall flat (that includes pretty much everyone but CC) it could be a disaster.
‘in terms of big players, its cano and that’s it”
the yankees pick from the back of the pack every year. they dont get the elite players like tampa bay did and florida does..
Expecting big things out of most young ballplayers their first year in the Majors is asking alot.
Most guys require years of MiLB as well as MLB development time.
If “stepping up” means playing at a high level for an entire season I kinda doubt that.
If it means filling a role for part of a season then yeah. I’m down with that. That’s doable.
Somehow I think the Yankees might be expecting the former. Not sure what hal meant.
I also don’t belive he’s backtracking on 189 when he is this close.
Maybe if the Yankees severly underperform this season.
“the yankees pick from the back of the pack every year. they dont get the elite players like tampa bay did and florida does..”
Take a look at where Tampa drafted most of their players not named Price and Longoria.
Moore 8th round
Shields 16th round
Davis 3rd round
Hellickson 4th round
So that’s not accurate.
Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:27 am
“The lack of follow up questions never ceases to amaze me.. like they’re all Oprah or something.”
Most owners, GMs, managers get a free ride in big bad NYC, until the wheels fall off, and they they are pilloried by the media.
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I know journalists walk a fine line.. I toyed with the idea of going into sports journalism for a long time and went to quite a few broadcasting camps to meet with tv, radio and newspaper guys. But it’s sort of like they’re not watching the team at all or only watching them in a vacuum. If I were talking to Hal and he said something about the young guys having to contribute, I’d at least ask if he’s concerned at the number of recent injuries or maybe if he’s concerned his top talent is further away from the big leagues.
As for that ‘$220′ quote.. doesn’t anyone ask him a follow up regarding the fact that over $100 million is committed to players that are becoming less and less effective by the season? No?
There is no such thing as a “minor” shoulder surgery.
They are either major, or more major.
The longterm prognosis is generally poor.
With DL stints and follow up surgery likely outcomes.
Shame
It seems to me that if you are polite and respectful, you should be able to ask what you want, and most of the guys covering Hal have reputations and a reservoir of support, so it’s not like they should walk on eggshells in fear of their jobs.
Blake-
You are right about Campos.
They are running the same risks as they did with Banuelos.
Let’s hope the outcome is different this time.
I wouldn’t bet on it though.
One thing that is refreshing — Hal actually answered the questions. The fans anger is palpable. I’m glad Hal was asked real questions about things like empty seats and addressed them.
Even if his “we signed four of the top free agrents” was a tad disingenuous. Kuroda, Pettitte and Ichiro were all resigns (not improving the team, but maintaining). And Youk was the big addition? Please.
So now we know tha Hal knows the fans are angry. We’ll see what he does, if anything.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c...../index.htm
An article about PEDs in baseball & other sports… from 1969
Rich in NJ January 11th, 2013 at 11:37 am
Shame
It seems to me that if you are polite and respectful, you should be able to ask what you want, and most of the guys covering Hal have reputations and a reservoir of support, so it’s not like they should walk on eggshells in fear of their jobs.
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It’s not like the Yankees can just shut the media out.. it’s a two way street and they know that as well.
Hal’s statements read as just that: a statement. It’s not really an interview at all, just a statement that was probably spurred on by the rumblings of the fans.
Sherman started reporting on exactly what the fans concerns are, but so far he’s the only one that’s done so on the regular (who had the article about the Yanks spending all that money but not being any better? That wasn’t Sherman, IIRC)…. it will be interesting to see if/when we approach a tipping point.
If this team sputters out of the gate we’ll hear a lot about patients, but it could get ugly quick.
My surprise MiLB player for this coming season.
Ravel Santana.
The forgotten OF’er.
Great name by the way.
Sounds like a cross between a classical composer and a great rock n roll guitarist.
Santana’s injury really derailed him. From .900 OPS in the GCL to .216 .304 .289 .593 in the NYPL. He’ll either start in shortseason or Low A I guess.
- HOW TO IMPROVE THE NEW YORK YANKEES SHORT AND LONG TERM -
(1) TRADE CANO NOW – Get at least an Established player and a Blue Chipper.
(2) SIGN FREE AGENTS – Hamilton and that bat woulda fit nicely. Then pass on Ichiro.
(3) HAL SELLING TEAM – No fire, No passion, No acumen. Trifecta here.
(4) FIRE CASHMAN – President of The Peter Principle Club.
(5)BEGIN NEGATIVE A-ROD PR CAMPAIGN – Spearheaded by Sherman The Hack. As Grafton said to Shane, “Were gonna ride you outta this town onna rail”.
God help us if the Yankees draft someone names Austin Williams.
JF-
It took a while for Adams to come back.
Maybe Santana is similar.
Hopefully he’s physically 100 % now.
Shame
As of right now, Sherman is the best baseball writer in NY, by far. And he thinks outside the box too. For example, last year as all the media types were telling everyone that Montero for Pineda was a no-brainer (no really), Sherman had the thoughtful comment that as PEDs end (or attenuate, right?) true power hitters become more valuable, especially when they are cost-controlled.
But Hal is just spouting platitudes, at least to me, it comes across as talking down to fans.
Just a hunch, but I bet Cashman gets a lot of mileage with Hal with the excuse that they did things “wrong” so long here under his Father re:the minor league system, that they’re still in the learning phase of how to do it “right”.
That kind of corporate CYA speak lights up a boardroom more often than not.
That said, Cashman is tied to the prospects Chad mentioned right now. The fact that some are seriously injured and some aren’t even on the cusp of truly knocking on the door like Austin Jackson, Kennedy & Montero were makes me think Cashman is going to push for some trade to clear the cupboards and take the focus off the success of the prospects. Whether Hal lets him do this, is the real question.
Very excited to see how DePaula does in his first full season in the States.
My bet is he’s gonna make mincemeat of guys at that level.
Campos, Ramirez, and DePaula are all high-end arms.
Hensley might be too.
New post —–>
or is it ?
Yeah, guys who aren’t MLB-ready in 2013 (everyone listed save Romine and Pineda), who might not be MLB-ready in 2013 (Romine), and who won’t be ready until June and no guarantee to land a job (Pineda) need to “step up” LOL.
Keep pretending to talk about the team like you know what’s up when you know jack sh it, Shallow Hal and Hankenstein.