The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


One year ago…

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 13, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

It was exactly one year ago, at 7:21 p.m. last January 13, that Seattle Times national baseball writer Larry Stone sent this tweet:

Are you as stunned today as you were a year ago? Stunned by the decision, the fallout and what it means for the Yankees moving forward? Stunned that Montero had as much trouble as he did against right-handers? Stunned that he’s still better than any current DH on the Yankees roster? Stunned that Pineda hasn’t thrown a meaningful pitch since the trade? Stunned that the Yankees still badly need Pineda to become a factor in the immediate future?

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168 Responses to “One year ago…”

  1. tomingeorgia January 13th, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    Chad,
    Fercrissake, this arguemetn again?

  2. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    It was our Pearl Harbor. Our Lincoln Assassination. Our day the Beatles broke up.

    Stunned?

    So much worse. So, so much.

    :cry:

  3. jacksquat January 13th, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    Stunned that he’s still better than any current DH on the Yankees roster?

    Montero: .260/.298/.386/.685

    Nunez: .292/.330/.393/.723

    :mrgreen:

  4. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    stunned?

    .260 isn’t really stunning

  5. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    “It was our Pearl Harbor. Our Lincoln Assassination. Our day the Beatles broke up.”
    ————————————————-
    our? you got a frog in your pocket?

  6. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 13th, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    As much as I want the Pats to go down in flames today, I can only look at it from a view of patience and think that the Belicheats will hurt even more losing deeper into the playoffs. While anything is possible, I’m not thinking a miracle is on its way.

  7. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 13th, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    You and I still talk about Joba starting lol ///

    It’s a dirty job, but somebody’s got to do it

    ———–
    That’s right :)

  8. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    What’s your problem with the Pats?

  9. DaSaint007 January 13th, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    I too am hoping the Yankees discover a speed game for the first time in years. I agree that Gardner can steal 50+, and the rest (Jeet, Granderson, Suzuki and Nunez) can all do 20 each on average if manufacturing runs is a priority. Could be interesting to watch.

  10. blake January 13th, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    I’ll bet a fake Internet beverage that Montero outhits Nunez this year by a pretty significant margin….any takers?

  11. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 13th, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    “What’s your problem with the Pats?”

    Um, I am anti all Boston teams?

  12. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    “our? you got a frog in your pocket?”

    I wasn’t happy when the news broke.

    We’ve all got a little frog in the pockets of our souls.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vkPb6knGbg

  13. blake January 13th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS: Dickey, Pettitte, Kimbrel, Victorino commit to Team USA. Wright, Braun, Stanton, Mauer also in. http://t.co/hjEJH5gV

    Andy? Not sure I’m wild about that idea…..save your bullets

  14. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    Nothing wrong with that. But since my team isn’t in it I through my support behind the Pats

  15. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 13th, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    Against, I would root for satan’s team against the Pats!

    :D

  16. jacksquat January 13th, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    blake January 13th, 2013 at 7:57 pm
    I’ll bet a fake Internet beverage that Montero outhits Nunez this year by a pretty significant margin….any takers?

    It wouldn’t surprise me. Especially since with the way the Yankees operate, Nunez might not play much or at all this year. With their recent comments, I can see him getting a brief opportunity at 3B and then “well, he can’t play defense…”. Jeter should be DH’ing a lot with Nunez getting more consistent playing time.

  17. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    Lol I wouldn’t be able to do that

  18. blake January 13th, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    @jonmorosi: Team Venezuela should be strong: M. Cabrera, Sandoval, Felix Hernandez, Andrus, Asdrubal Cabrera, Miguel Montero all committed.

  19. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    Well I don’t like the Pats but they’re moneymakers, so what are you gonna do? :neutral:

  20. blake January 13th, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    If Nunez can handle a utility role the he should play a lot….at the moment Id DH vs LHP and then whenever guys need rests ….he’d get 3 or 4 games a week probably

  21. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    I remember Nunez being pretty handy with the bat back when Jeter went on the DL during the summer of ’11, pre-3000. It would be huge if we get that Nunez in ’13.

  22. blake January 13th, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    Nick in SF says:
    January 13, 2013 at 8:12 pm
    I remember Nunez being pretty handy with the bat back when Jeter went on the DL during the summer of ’11, pre-3000. It would be huge if we get that Nunez in ’13.

    Yup

  23. yankeefeminista January 13th, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    re-post

    yankeefeminista January 13th, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    Ugh. The infamous trade took place on Friday the 13th. I guess Lohud’s “technical difficulties” today were actually a long moment of silence, commemorating the symbolic and actual death of our present and future offense.

    Odds, +1 re: Joba as starter. :)

    Blake, aren’t there only like about 8 people that consistently post on RAB? Seems it is the same names over and over again. …
    **********
    “I think RAB is just a very saber driven blog….and therefore I guess attracts a certain type of follower….I like Axisa’s stuff but everyone there seems to be fighting for the smartest guy in the room title”

    blake, fangraphs is also saber driven and the discussion there is so much better, more interactive and less dogmatic than that on RAB.

    I like that Pinder and Kahnle will be in Yanks ST camp. Chad, when do you get a pitchers and catchers list?

  24. jacksquat January 13th, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    Andy pitching in the WBC is not good.

  25. blake January 13th, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    jacksquat says:
    January 13, 2013 at 8:17 pm
    Andy pitching in the WBC is not good.

    Yea I’m not wild about that either…..

  26. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 13th, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    “Lol I wouldn’t be able to do that”

    :lol:

    I think God would applaud me! The combination of arrogant punk Brady (oh yes he is) and that dour cheating punk Belicheat is enough to make me lose my lunch – and I don’t mean through a bet either! As much as I can’t stand the Sux, I aways had a real soft spot for Tito. He was a total gentleman. Belicheat, I’d like to see in the middle of a field with a zamboni racing toward him. (I realize I mixed sports there.)

  27. blake January 13th, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    Torre managing may have something to do with it

  28. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 13th, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    Against, I don’t follow football the way I follow baseball. I pay attention when the AH Pats are playing only because I want them to lose. So tell me, with the remaining teams in the playoffs, are there teams that would be picked to beat the cheats?

  29. yankeefeminista January 13th, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    Not thrilled about Andy pitching either.

  30. Phranchise January 13th, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    I am more stunned about this whole report about not wanting to pursue Upton due to money. If that’s the case sell the franchise please. A 25 year old under contract with big upside and a piece you will need in another year regardless when you don’t sign Granderson and have Ichiro in RF? No matter how much I love the potential of some of the Yankees prospects, they have no one even close to Upton. And Upton now has some years under his belt and may be on the verge of a breakout as Cano took sometime as did Kemp. If there ever was an exection to their plans this would be it.

  31. jacksquat January 13th, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    Torre managing makes me even more concerned.

  32. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    ” blake January 13th, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    I’ll bet a fake Internet beverage that Montero outhits Nunez this year by a pretty significant margin….any takers?
    ============================================
    WOW!!! how the mighty have fallen!

    a year ago montero was a ‘generational hitter’

    …now he might be better than eduardo nunez!

  33. jacksquat January 13th, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    I don’t think the Yankees said anything directly about not being able to afford Upton.

  34. theREALkevin January 13th, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    And yet Pineda will in all likelihood never be the same pitcher he was. While Montero will have loads of opportunities to improve and realize his potential. You saw flashes last yr, even against righties, look at what he did against Jerad weaver. Montero could also help out this yr catching part time if we had him. Look at our weak crop of catchers as of now. Still an awful trade and if anything it will probably look worse as more time goes on.

  35. blake January 13th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    Honestly I think Morsosi made that whole article up.

  36. blake January 13th, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    Montero is 22….lets see what he does this year

  37. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    if we combed through last year’s preseason predictions for montero, i’d bet we wouldnt find one projection that was as low as what he ended up posting.

  38. jacksquat January 13th, 2013 at 8:35 pm

    I think the problem with Upton is the amount of talent Towers wants for him.

  39. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:36 pm

    yes lets see if he can beat his fellow generational hitter (is that even possible?) eduardo nunez!

  40. 4 NYY January 13th, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    Yanks can afford anyone out there, but the Steins said $ 189 million and meant it !

    Maybe a decent trade will happen, but I won’t hold my breath. It’s gonna be patchwork on the cheap !

  41. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    Montero wouldn’t be the first player who didn’t set the league on fire as a rookie but then went on to bigger and better things. Sometimes I miss the lad.

  42. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:42 pm

    or he wouldnt be the first over hyped rookie who never tuned into anything special.

  43. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    You mean we still don’t know the young ballplayer’s future? Indeed.

  44. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    pearl harbor?

    …really?

  45. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:46 pm

    “y 13th, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    You mean we still don’t know the young ballplayer’s future? Indeed.”
    ================================

    …or a young player coming off surgery…

  46. blake January 13th, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    Nick in SF says:
    January 13, 2013 at 8:44 pm
    You mean we still don’t know the young ballplayer’s future? Indeed.

    We do known that all his labrums are intact though….for now

  47. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    A date which will live in infamy.

    http://www.schooltube.com/vide.....4961a7a76/

  48. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    but there might be a problem with his batting eye…

  49. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:50 pm

    i dont care what people write here but to me comparing a baseball trade to a horrible event in which more than 2400 people died is crazy.

    why didnt you put 9/11 in there?

  50. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 8:52 pm

    Because then you might care what people write here.

  51. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    so the montero trade is as bad as pearl harbor but not quite as bad as 9/11?

  52. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    No. Try another theory.

  53. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    so if montero doesnt beat out nunez this year, can we take away the ‘generational hitter’ tag or does he get another season?

  54. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    This is drama. The Yankees don’t miss Montero and they really REALLY need Pineda to give them something in the #2 or #3 slot in the rotation long term. I hope he can return to the mound healthy and stick there as a starting pitcher. I’m sick of hearing horror stories about how that’s highly unlikely.

  55. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Odds, +1 re: Joba as starter.

    ———————-

    *high fives* YF :D

  56. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 13th, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    blake January 13th, 2013 at 8:34 pm
    Montero is 22….lets see what he does this year

    *****

    Jesus Montero is now 23.

  57. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    If Pineda stays healthy he could be a fun pitcher to watch. If he can hit 95-97 with regularity again then he’s exactly what we need.

  58. blake January 13th, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    “Jesus Montero is now 23.”

    Montero is 23….lets see what he does this year ….point remains the same

  59. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 8:53 pm
    so the montero trade is as bad as pearl harbor but not quite as bad as 9/11?

    —————–
    I don’t think Nick is serious

  60. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    Also keep in mind the Yankees acquired Pineda when they (correctly) anticipated Cain re-signing with the Giants and Hamels staying put. The other potential free agent was Zack Greinke and look at the deal he got. No way the Yankees wanted to give him that deal. And there were rumors the Yankees tried to trade for Cain, offering Montero but obviously the Giants were committed to Cain. And they won another ring with the guy.

    What did you all expect them to do?

  61. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 13th, 2013 at 8:18 pm
    “Lol I wouldn’t be able to do that”

    I think God would applaud me! The combination of arrogant punk Brady (oh yes he is) and that dour cheating punk Belicheat is enough to make me lose my lunch – and I don’t mean through a bet either! As much as I can’t stand the Sux, I aways had a real soft spot for Tito. He was a total gentleman. Belicheat, I’d like to see in the middle of a field with a zamboni racing toward him. (I realize I mixed sports there.)

    ——————–

    I think he would say why root for satan and not the Pats.

  62. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 13th, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    He knows all the reasons. He is God you know.

  63. blake January 13th, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    “Also keep in mind the Yankees acquired Pineda when they (correctly) anticipated Cain re-signing with the Giants and Hamels staying put. ”

    And incorrectly assumed they wouldn’t need offense…..they could have signed Darvish….Hal wouldn’t let Cash so he made a trade…..I get why they did it….I just think they should have kept their best prospect and RH bat

  64. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:12 pm

    What did you all expect them to do?

    ——————–

    Do what they said they would which is develop their own pitching

  65. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:13 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 13th, 2013 at 9:07 pm
    He knows all the reasons. He is God you know.

    ————————–

    But it’s a game and you’d be rooting for the devil against humans

  66. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    They also acquired Ichiro (correctly) mid season last year anticipating a pricey market for Swisher, Hamilton, Victorino, BJ Upton, Justin Upton and Morse.

    The only bargain in there was probably Melky Cabrera but the Yankees obviously don’t care for his makeup. They’re about to get real serious with his buddy Robinson Cano.

  67. MTU January 13th, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    Looks like the Hatfields and the McCoys are at it once again.

    :)

  68. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    “MTU January 13th, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    Looks like the Hatfields and the McCoys are at it once again.”
    ————————————————————-
    well i think we’ve already exhausted every possible trade or anyone on the yankees roster for justin upton :)

  69. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    Also remember Cashman’s main target when dangling Montero was Felix Hernandez. Jack Z wouldn’t bite.

  70. Bronx Jeers January 13th, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    Montero for Upton would have been like so choice.

  71. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    Jack Z wouldn’t bite.

    —————

    Cash didn’t have to bite either

  72. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    I have a hard time seeing the National League teams offering fair value for Jesus Montero.

  73. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    That’s true, Cashman could have sat on his hands waiting for Greinke to reach free agency so they could outbid the Dodgers for him.

  74. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:23 pm
    That’s true, Cashman could have sat on his hands waiting for Greinke to reach free agency so they could outbid the Dodgers for him.

    ——————-

    Or he could have followed through with his plan and devloped pitching

  75. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    They have been developing pitchers – Nova, Phelps, Hughes, Betances. Banuelos got injured but I’m pretty sure they would have continued with his development as well regardless of the Pineda acquisition. You can ignore context but that really only works on video games.

  76. Bronx Jeers January 13th, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    You can ignore context but that really only works on video games

    ———————————————

    That’s OK because we use video games to analyze pitching in here.

  77. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:27 pm
    They have been developing pitchers – Nova, Phelps, Hughes, Betances. Banuelos got injured but I’m pretty sure they would have continued with his development as well regardless of the Pineda acquisition. You can ignore context but that really only works on video games.

    ——————————

    Not ignoring context just stating facts.

    Nova – regressed last yr and dealt with injuries
    Phelps – good yr last yr but to early to crown him a huge success
    Betances – serious control issues and he might up end in the pen
    Hughes – took steps last yr and did a good job but he still has issues when it comes to his pitching repertoire and hasn’t lived up to the hype.

  78. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    And what do you use to mop up tears?

  79. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    “Nova – regressed last yr and dealt with injuries
    Phelps – good yr last yr but to early to crown him a huge success
    Betances – serious control issues and he might up end in the pen
    Hughes – took steps last yr and did a good job but he still has issues when it comes to his pitching repertoire and hasn’t lived up to the hype.”
    =====================
    sounds like they needed to go outside the organization to find some more pitching…

  80. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:35 pm
    “Nova – regressed last yr and dealt with injuries
    Phelps – good yr last yr but to early to crown him a huge success
    Betances – serious control issues and he might up end in the pen
    Hughes – took steps last yr and did a good job but he still has issues when it comes to his pitching repertoire and hasn’t lived up to the hype.”
    =====================
    sounds like they needed to go outside the organization to find some more pitching…

    —————————————

    Or they could have properly handled the pitching they did have.

  81. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    When shopping Montero (and he was indeed heavily shopped I imagine) Cashman’s trading partners were restricted to two divisions – AL Central and AL West – and also further limited by the number of competitive rivals in those divisions competing with the Yankees for a playoff spot. The Yankees were not getting an impact player from the AL East and the National League was likely not offering fair value for Montero because of question marks (still) surrounding his catching.

    So there you have it. Buyers market for Montero.

  82. MTU January 13th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    I was a fence-sitter at the time of this trade and I still am.

    Thought it would take time to decide it’s merit and it still will.

    Have to say that what happened to Pineda was not good.

  83. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    I’m hoping the 2014 rotation will be

    CC
    Pineda
    Pettitte
    Nova
    Phelps

  84. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    with Banuelos and Betances hopefully showing something in AAA in 2014.

  85. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    How much are you paying Andy in 2014?

  86. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    “Or they could have properly handled the pitching they did have”

    we’re talking about a decision they made one year ago today given the situation that exsisted at that time. do you think they could at that point change their development program enough to change the current situations of nova, hughes, betances and phelps?

  87. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    I’m not getting into the spreadsheet debate.

    Andy is far from done in my eyes. That’s all I’m going on. And if he wants to stay in baseball, he has a spot.

  88. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    “Montero for Upton would have been like so choice.”

    Et tu, Bronxe?

  89. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    ill gladly agree to drop any discussion of montero for as long as we drop any discussion of upton… :)

  90. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:41 pm
    I’m not getting into the spreadsheet debate.

    Andy is far from done in my eyes. That’s all I’m going on. And if he wants to stay in baseball, he has a spot.”

    ———————

    It’s an honest question. They have a budget and they are going to do everything they can to stay under it in 14. Andy is making 12 million this season. Every dollar that goes to a player means it’s not being spent somewhere else.

  91. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:40 pm
    “Or they could have properly handled the pitching they did have”

    we’re talking about a decision they made one year ago today given the situation that exsisted at that time. do you think they could at that point change their development program enough to change the current situations of nova, hughes, betances and phelps?

    ——————————

    I think their development program was screwed up from the beginning going back to generation trey.

  92. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    ” They have a budget and they are going to do everything they can to stay under it in 14.”
    ————————————————————————————————-
    that is not what hal said yesterday.

  93. FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    Fine. Every dollar that you want to give Phil Hughes, I’m giving to Andy Pettitte.

  94. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    “I think their development program was screwed up from the beginning going back to generation trey.”
    =====================================
    yes but we’re discussing the situation as it applied one year ago today.

  95. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    To be clear, I am not making a literal comparison between Bronx Jeers’ comment and the assassination of Julius Caesar or of any fictional accounts of the same.

    :neutral:

  96. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:47 pm
    ” They have a budget and they are going to do everything they can to stay under it in 14.”
    ————————————————————————————————-
    that is not what hal said yesterday.

    —————————————————————————

    What Hal said yesterday was to come down the screams he’s been since more fans took saw they are serious about getting the payroll in order.

  97. Bronx Jeers January 13th, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    Et tu, Bronxe?

    ——————-

    Nah…I recently saw the new Tarantino film so I’ve got beating dead horses on the brain.

  98. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 13th, 2013 at 9:48 pm
    Fine. Every dollar that you want to give Phil Hughes, I’m giving to Andy Pettitte.

    ————————————

    Who said I wanted to give those dollars to Hughes.

  99. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Plus Hal also said you don’t need a 200 million payroll and 189 isn’t a 1 yr thing

  100. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    “What Hal said yesterday was to come down the screams he’s been since more fans took saw they are serious about getting the payroll in order.”
    —————————————-
    ?

  101. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    ” Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Plus Hal also said you don’t need a 200 million payroll and 189 isn’t a 1 yr thing”
    =======================================
    so you accept what hal said as true.

    he also said that he would not go under $189 if that meant they wouldnt have a competittive team.

    so if you accept the first statement, you must accept the second, right?

  102. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    Sorry typing too fast.

    What I meant to say was what Hal said yesterday is just talk.

  103. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:54 pm
    ” Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Plus Hal also said you don’t need a 200 million payroll and 189 isn’t a 1 yr thing”
    =======================================
    so you accept what hal said as true.

    he also said that he would not go under $189 if that meant they wouldnt have a competittive team.

    so if you accept the first statement, you must accept the second, right?

    ———————

    I don’t accept his first statement. Hal is a man about budgets and order. He said that in the ESPN 30 for 30 that came out yrs ago. He’s always talking up the farm and young players. Does anyone believe if the Yankees finish with in the mid 80s in wins he’s going to reverse course and blow this thing out of the water.

  104. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    if it’s ‘just talk’ then why are you quoting it and aruing what it’s effect will be and how long it will last?

  105. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    arguing, sorry

  106. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    Talk in regards to changing course if 189 doesn’t work.

  107. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    i thought the trade was going to be a wash from the beginning. i still say the same thing…

    we’ll see…

  108. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    ok so you choose to accept and extend some of what hal said and argue that the rest was false. that’s fine, just don’t quote what he said as bible if you don’t believe him yourself.

  109. Bronx Jeers January 13th, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    Did NBC just sensor Jody Fosters’s coming out speech? Weird.

  110. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 10:05 pm
    ok so you choose to accept and extend some of what hal said and argue that the rest was false. that’s fine, just don’t quote what he said as bible if you don’t believe him yourself.

    ————————-

    Ppl tell truths and lies all the time. No one is quoting it as if it’s the bible.

  111. jacksquat January 13th, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    I don’t believe for a second that Hal will go over 189 for 2014.

  112. Cashmoney January 13th, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrW_hAFn9jc

    Bronx, you get an early idea… no matter, talented actor irregardless.

  113. Ys Guy January 13th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    i think jody foster said shes out to whomever she feels she needs to be out to and the rest of you can stick it.

    …good for her!

  114. Cashmoney January 13th, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    I came across this video while searching an episode of Game of throne… possibly the worst music video in mankind history.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUXuh4RymhQ

  115. Against All Odds January 13th, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    Terrible song but I can’t blame her for making a career change.

  116. Nick in SF January 13th, 2013 at 11:59 pm

    I don’t think Odds was being inconsistent with Hal’s quotes, he was just doing what virtually everyone who’s participated in these debates have done, which is to give extra weight to the statements and events that conform with his opinion and less to those that don’t. So he discounts what Hal says that he doesn’t believe and quotes back what he thinks is more realistic.

    And really, why should be assume that Hal is completely forthcoming and, more important, completely consistent in what he says? It’s not like Hal has a great motive to tell the truth if he really intends for the payroll to come in below the $189M no matter what. What’s he going to say, that he wants the payroll below the number even if he thinks that they can’t field a contending team in 2014? So I don’t blame Odds for being skeptical, given his overall view of things.

    Me, I’m open to the possibility that Hal really did give hope that there could be some of that precious wiggle room in 2014 if they crunch the numbers, look at the roster and how the MiL players are progressing, and decide that they can’t risk going under the number (and there could be other factors like Jeter’s contract situation, where Arod is in his home run total, current vets who might be willing to come back, etc.).

    But part of the reason I’m being more open to Hal being honest about the wiggle room is because it conforms with the previous opinion I’ve given that when it gets down to crunch time, they would put a better team on the field in 2014 before taking a conscious undue risk to not even compete for a postseason spot. But just like Odds doesn’t know that Hal isn’t being sincere, I don’t know that he is.

    None of knows what they’re going to do. They might not know either, given all the unpredictable twists and turns ahead. Maybe all the pessimism is warranted, maybe it isn’t.

    Anniversaries are a good time for reflection.

  117. Rich in NJ January 14th, 2013 at 12:14 am

    “Did NBC just sensor Jody Fosters’s coming out speech? Weird.”

    That was intentional by NBC? I freakin’ hope not.

  118. Against All Odds January 14th, 2013 at 12:22 am

    That’s a nice post Nick

  119. UnKnown January 14th, 2013 at 12:45 am

    NBC is the one channel that DEFINITELY would not censor that kind of thing.

    From what I saw, after her dramatic build up, she asked for wolf whistles from the crowd and when the crowd started to hoot and holler that is what was censored. Who knows what was being said from the crowd during the yelling.

  120. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 7:05 am

    Good Morning

    It won’t be long before Pitchers and Catchers report.

    ;)

  121. 86w183 January 14th, 2013 at 7:24 am

    Morning all —–

    In my view Hal Steinbrenner is trying to run the Yankees more like a business with a measured approach to spending. I have no problem with that.

    He’s also giving indications that $ 189 M is not going to keep the Yankees from being competitive, which to me means if they aren’t good enough he’ll invest more. He’s right that $ 189 M is a ton of money with which to assemble the roster. But I think he also realizes that is MUCH tougher to do with the commitments already on the books.

    The Yankees have to win to be a successful business long term. He knows that.

  122. BIG AL January 14th, 2013 at 7:32 am

    If I’m the Yankees FO I’d be very concerned with Andy pitching in the WBC, especially with Joe”I Love To Kill Pitchers Arms” Torre as the manager.

  123. BIG AL January 14th, 2013 at 7:33 am

    Mike -

    I’ve reported already.

  124. BIG AL January 14th, 2013 at 7:35 am

    It is my opinion Hal is committed to making money first, and winning comes in second.

  125. blake January 14th, 2013 at 7:37 am

    @jonmorosi: Rangers, Padres, Pirates showing interest in free agent Shaun Marcum, sources say.

  126. BIG AL January 14th, 2013 at 7:45 am

    I just heard a pin drop.

  127. 86w183 January 14th, 2013 at 7:46 am

    It is my opinion Hal is committed to making money first, and winning comes in second.

    ********************************************************************

    You can have that opinion, but there’s little evidence to support it. The Yankees spent the most money in MLB last year and had the best record in the American League.

    That is not reflective of a “profits first” mentality. If that was his mentality there’s no way on earth he okays all that spending on Kuroda, Pettitte, Youkilis, Cano, Granderson, Rivera et al.

    It’s about balancing the two oft-times conflicting goals.

  128. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 7:49 am

    I just spent quite a bit of time reading and re-reading some of the stuff on tears of the Labrum and their future outcome.

    The prognosis is a mixed bag.

    With the type of injury that Pineda sustained we just have to hope he is one of the luckier ones.

    The good things in his case are that the rotator cuff was not involved, that he is young, and that the tear was repaired arthroscopically instead of thru wide-open surgery.

  129. BIG AL January 14th, 2013 at 7:54 am

    86w183 January 14th, 2013 at 7:46 am

    *****************************************************
    The primary reason the Yankees have such a huge payroll are the contracts given to A-Rod, Tex, CC & Jeter. Those 4 players eat up a majority of the salaries paid, leaving little room to sign needed players.

    With Hal’s current thinking, I can see them either trading Cano, or letting him walk, if they can’t get a team friendly contract done.

    Hal is hoping the AAA players step up next season, so he can let Granderson and Cano walk.

    These are not the Boss’s Yankees, they are Hal’s.

  130. randy l. January 14th, 2013 at 8:00 am

    ” Stunned that Montero had as much trouble as he did against right-handers?”

    i think people became aware how difficult it is to hit at safeco.some people hit there not many. jaso hit better there than he hit at tampa. of course he was 28 and monetro was 22.

    montero had a lot of positives come out of his age 22 season. against lefties he had a .830 OPS.
    he caught a no hitter. he hit 15 homers and had 62 rbis. he gained valuable catching time.

    he played a whole season without getting hurt like romine for example. showing up healthy everyday is an overlooked attribute. some players seem to have it more than others.

    is it surprising a 22 year old didn’t hit both righties and lefties at the same rate?
    think about the fact robinson cano has a .646OPS against lefties in 2012 before you answer that. cano had 12 extra base hits in 243 at bats against lefties.
    montero had 22 extra base hits in 362 at bats against righties.

    cano is supposed to be in his prime of an expected hall of fame year.

    so am i stunned about montero’s not hitting right handers well at age 22?
    no, but i am stunned how bad robinson cano was against left handers at the peak of his career.

  131. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 8:04 am

    This is one of the best analyses I’ve found on Pitchers with Labrum Injuries :

    http://www.baseballprospectus......leid=16634

    I hope Pineda turns out more like Anibal Sanchez than some of the others.

    Agewise Sanchez seems to be an excellent comp for Pineda.

    Like Pineda Sanchez had Labrum surgery at age 23.

    No idea if the extent of the injury sustained is highly comprable.

    Sanchez struggled for the 2 seasons following but eventually returned to form.

  132. 86w183 January 14th, 2013 at 8:09 am

    Big Al —- That’s just not true. Those four guys did not account for half the payroll last year. They count a bunch, but the Yankees paid more than $ 120 M to others on the roster.

    I’ll be as ticked off as anyone if the Yanks become a .500 club, but I’m not willing to starting ripping on someone for something that hasn’t happened yet.

    By the way, “The Boss” was great for the Yankees up to and including 1981. He was pretty much of a negative after that. The 1995-01 dynasty had precious little to do with his input. It had more to do with his suspensions.

  133. AAA January 14th, 2013 at 8:09 am

    i think people became aware how difficult it is to hit at safeco

    ===============================

    .227/.268/.337 in Safeco
    .295/.330/.438 everywhere else

    I think most would be thrilled with a .768 OPS out of a rookie catcher, which is what Montero gave them on the road. With Safeco maybe a little more hitter friendly this year, and Montero having another year of experience (he does have a history of significant improvement in his 2nd go round in the league he’s playing in), I can envision him being a pretty productive hitter this season.

  134. randy l. January 14th, 2013 at 8:13 am

    .227/.268/.337 in Safeco
    .295/.330/.438 everywhere else

    i think montero may have had more at bats against lefties away from safeco so that would skew teh results.

    what i’d like to see is how he hit against righties away from safeco.

    anyone know where to find that split?

    basically it’s two splits. away and against righties.

  135. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 8:16 am

    randy-

    I’m sure JF can provide that info.

    There is little statistically that he doesn’t seem able to find.

    ;)

  136. AAA January 14th, 2013 at 8:17 am

    basically it’s two splits. away and against righties.

    =========================

    Maybe 3.

    As DH: .226/.265/.309 (320 PA)
    AS C: .310/.343/.498 (230 PA)

  137. yanks61 January 14th, 2013 at 8:17 am

    Good morning all.

    86W – Plus on all this morning’s posts!

    ————————————————————————–

    As I was reading the continuing Montero comments yesterday it reminded me of how UNpredictable (thank you, Susan!) baseball is. A few months back I read that Bill Dickey told the Yanks that neither of their two youngsters, Berra and Lollar, would ever amount to good fielding catchers. He advised the Yankees to keep Berra only because of his LH swing.

    We all know about Yogi. Does anyone realize that Lollar went on to become one of the best fielding catchers in the game and won the first gold glove for a catcher? Bill F–ing Dickey! HOF catcher and great Yankee coach! He couldn’t see that both were going to become great catchers?

    Same goes for hitting. I can’t tell you how many times since 1953 I’ve heard scouts, coaches and/or sports writers tell us we were seeing the next coming of Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays, or whoever.

    I was at YS early one day soon after Bobby Murcer was signed and before he was assigned to the mL. In batting practice he was rattling one line drive after another against the scoreboard in right center (that was an enormous drive in YS I) and pulling a number of others into the stands.) The next MM we thought, and outside observers were giving us the same spiel. We hear this stuff all the time.

    So, who knows maybe Jesus becomes a better catcher than anyone would have thought and maybe he also never lives up to the hype about his hitting. No one knows for sure. I mean if HOF catcher Dickey could get it so wrong, I’m not putting any stock in what any self-appointed experts on some blog is predicting. And, IMO, it’s part of what makes BB so interesting. So have fun with your estimates of what a player will accomplish, but don’t take yourself or your predictions too seriously.

    _______________________________________________________

    Randi/AAA – Yep, could happen and I think the odds are that he will improve – maybe even greatly. I just don’t believe in making this out to be an absolute certainty. Certainties don’t exist in life. I’m sure you both agree!

  138. randy l. January 14th, 2013 at 8:18 am

    mtu-

    for some reason that’s a hard stat to find.

    hey, aren’t you surprised how bad cano was against lefties last year?

    man, he was pathetic.

    i really wonder about long as a hitting coach.

  139. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 8:23 am

    randy-

    Of course. I think he’ll return career norms this season, or at least I hope so.

    I think Long is a very good technician. Meaning that he seems good at correcting certain batting flaws, etc.

    The thing I do not think he is strong on is “hitting approach”. He seems to have no clue about the concept of “situational hitting”.

    JMHO.

  140. blake January 14th, 2013 at 8:28 am

    Yea I think Montero will hit better this year….he’s too talented not to. Hitting in the big leagues is hard…. Especially when you’re being asked to hit 4th in a terrible park as a rookie…..not everyone hits the ground running like Mike Trout….,he’s still only 23

  141. randy l. January 14th, 2013 at 8:31 am

    “Certainties don’t exist in life. I’m sure you both agree!”

    yanks 61-

    i agree. there is no certainty with montero.

    however, i’d say he’s an 80/20 guy. 80% chance that he’s going to have a really good career.

    it’s kind of like nate silver’s prediction in the last presidential election which was about an 80/20 thing.

    the twenty per cent could happen and the people who root for that can spin that small chance into more until it doesn’t happen .

    and then the 20 % becomes what it was in the first place.

    montero had more extra base hits per at bat against same side pitchers than cano did last year.

    yankee fans should be worrying more about cano than montero.

  142. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 8:32 am

    The analogy with a Pitching coach might be one who can effectively help correct mechanical flaws but who has no “Philosophy of Pitching”, i.e. a consistent way of attacking hitters to maximize getting them out.

  143. randy l. January 14th, 2013 at 8:38 am

    “The thing I do not think he is strong on is “hitting approach”. He seems to have no clue about the concept of “situational hitting”.”

    mtu-

    that is precisely what i mean. long seems to be telling hitters to swing hard in case they hit the ball or something like that.

    he doesn’t seem to fear strike outs.

    i prefer a hittng approach where a hitter can at will decide to make contact with the ball in some situations. there is no way that alex, granderson, teixeira, or cano against a lefty can decide to make contact with the ball and actually do it. they basically let it rip at all times.

    that makes some nice looking power stats at the end of the year, but it doesn’t necessarily win games.

  144. Ys Guy January 14th, 2013 at 8:38 am

    did pettitte announce that he was going to pitch in the wbc? i hadn’t seen that anywhere.

    my concern with pitchers in the wbc isnt about the managers. its the players themselves. these guys want to win these games and pitchers are just not ready to be throwing for real that early.

    i like watching the wbc b/c its more competetive than regular ST games and because of the mash-up of different players playing together. but i just think it’s a bad idea to have pitchers throwing ST innings in that circumstance.

  145. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 8:44 am

    Randy-

    If that is what you were referring to then I guess we are in total agreement.

    Matsui was the King of this.

    I am not a huge fan of the Big, Hairy approach as the be all and end all of hitting.

    It is non-Darwinian IMO. In baseball, as in Life, you have to constantly adapt.

    Or we know what usually follows.

    ;)

  146. randy l. January 14th, 2013 at 8:44 am

    mtu-

    another thing.

    if a hitter takes three swings to hit the ball, he really has to start swinging early in the count.

    the yankees on their long championship run could take pitchers deep into counts. how can you do that if it takes three swings to hit the ball.

    if hitters are not confident they can make contact, they will not go deep in counts and the on base percentage of the team will drop. the yankees at their best were an on base machine. they aren’t anymore.

  147. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 8:45 am

    Randy-

    Another point well taken.

  148. yanks61 January 14th, 2013 at 8:46 am

    Randi – “yankee fans should be worrying more about cano than montero.”

    No question. What happens with Cano next year determines, to a very large extent, the immediate future of the franchise. The Yankees really have to make up their minds about whether or not they’re going to go all out to sign him, regardless of the cost (thus very likely having to break their $189 limit) or else finding a trade partner who will give them back something reasonably valuable for him now.

    In a certain sense, trading him now for some good assets is the defintive way of turning the page on yesterday’s Yankees and pointing them very directly toward the future with younger players. Which is what I personally would rather they do. But the pressure is so great to keep winning while re-tooling that I’m not sure that they can effectively accomplish that, thus leaving them in an untenable in between situation where they don’t go all out either way.

    Whatever happens, I’m one of those who is intrigued by the machinations that go on in deciding how they proceed. So I feel less anguish in whatever direction they ultimately take. I understand that others aren’t quite as serene as I!

  149. Ys Guy January 14th, 2013 at 8:49 am

    agreed about situational hitting. this is the yankees biggest problem, imo.
    their pitiful record with runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs is the most visible result of this, but it came up again and again and again last year.

    i dont put much stock in hitting coaches but i think long doesnt preach situational hitting at all, or else the hitters are completely blowing him off.

  150. luis January 14th, 2013 at 8:51 am

    Good morning all,

    I haven’t been on the blog lately. First time i check, and I see this post. Well… I think this trade will be remembered as one of the worst moves in recent memory. Again, this move made an area of need, even weaker as we can see with our current lineup (old, declining with no inmediate help on the horizon). To top it all, the asset we got in return is hurt, and worse, we don’t know if he will be able to pitch at his peak condition ever again ( i hope he does ).

    Montero is going to hit and he will catch as well. He would be looking great in our lineup as of now. Very short sighted in deed to the point that the inevitable downward period that is coming might be longer that it needed to be.

  151. randy l. January 14th, 2013 at 8:52 am

    though the yankees did lead the league in o base percentage last year. but .337 isn’t up to that nice .350 number that i like to see.

  152. blake January 14th, 2013 at 8:52 am

    Montero isn’t the only young hitter that Safeco has stymied ….I saw Ackley and Smoak both were premium college bats….compared to Utley and Teixera and and neither have hit there.

  153. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 8:53 am

    A Coach can only instruct.

    It’s up to the player to put it into practice.

    Some guys are better pupils than others.

    Bad habits die hard. New ones hard to learn.

    In Long’s case I do not think he teaches it.

    He seems interested in teaching how to hit the ball hard and hope the rest takes care of itself.

    Maybe I’m wrong but that’s what I gleen from him.

  154. blake January 14th, 2013 at 8:53 am

    @Rotoworld_BB: M’s, D’Backs have inquired on Rick Porcello http://t.co/iZANKSVq

  155. Ys Guy January 14th, 2013 at 8:55 am

    i think if the yankees were not going to sign cano basically at all costs, he would have been traded by now, or at the very least, there would be alot of talk out there about who they are negotiating cano trades with. the time to trade him this offseason has come and probably gone as teams are getting ready to fill in the back ends of their rosters and send out ST invites.

    i can’t believe they think letting cano walk for a draft pick is a good idea.

    so that leaves me with the conclusion that they intend to sign him this offseason.

    on the plus side, this is his walk year and he may go crazy and win the mvp.

    but i dont like them leaving themselves in the position of giving in to boras’s crazy demands or letting cano walk away…

  156. blake January 14th, 2013 at 8:56 am

    It would be a lot easier to let Cano walk if you had another young bat in the middle of the lineup

  157. FiretheUMPIRE January 14th, 2013 at 8:58 am

    If you really want to find out what Nate Silver projects for Jesus Montero then just look at his 2013 PECOTA calculation.

  158. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 8:58 am

    Y’s-

    I don’t think anyone here is interested in seeing Cano turn into A-Rod 2.

    In other words offering him an overly long, mega dollar contract that hampers the future.

    I’d love to see them retain Cano but not at all costs.

  159. FiretheUMPIRE January 14th, 2013 at 8:59 am

    This way we can put a statistical face on this 80/20 number.

  160. Ys Guy January 14th, 2013 at 9:01 am

    mtu i was just sizing up what it looks like is going to happen.

    i advocated trading him this offseason, i just dont think it’s going to happen at this point.

    i dont think they intend to trade him during the season either.

    so now it looks like the choice is going to be to either sign him or let him walk.

    i dont like it but it sure looks like that’s the decision they’ve made.

  161. blake January 14th, 2013 at 9:01 am

    FiretheUMPIRE says:
    January 14, 2013 at 8:58 am
    If you really want to find out what Nate Silver projects for Jesus Montero then just look at his 2013 PECOTA calculation.

    Those kind of projections are much more accurate when they player has multiple years of data to draw from…..with a one year rookie sample they really don’t mean much

  162. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 9:02 am

    With Boras driving the process and teams like the Dodgers out there I don’t see a good outcome.

    Either we pay too much for too long, or we lose Robbie for nothing more than a draft pick.

    I’d love to be wrong.

  163. MTU January 14th, 2013 at 9:02 am

    new post —->

  164. randy l. January 14th, 2013 at 9:03 am

    “No question. What happens with Cano next year determines, to a very large extent, the immediate future of the franchise.”

    cano hit lefties well before last year so hopefully 2012 was an aberration for him.
    i agree what the yankees do with cano will expose what ownership is planning with the franchise.

    cano is a potential hall of famer. if the yankees don’t lock him up, that pretty much says it all.
    of course , the fact they are taking it down to the wire with no flexibility on extending cano earlier kind of shows where they are at already.

    with all the drama with inflexible brinkmanship strategies,i’m beginning to think hal might be a right wing republican. :)

  165. Bronx Jeers January 14th, 2013 at 9:03 am

    He seems interested in teaching how to hit the ball hard and hope the rest takes care of itself.

    ——————-

    If we go back to early September you may recall Long lamenting about the guys not having a plan up there and always taking big cuts. That’s when Girardi came out with his “We’re not the Bronx Bunters…” comment.

    It’s possible that Girardi may be the problem there.

  166. Ys Guy January 14th, 2013 at 9:05 am

    does silver do the pecota predictions like he did with the presidential polls, adding other’s projections together and working out probabilities from that?

    i dont know that that would work, partly because there are so fewer projections on baseball whereas he had dozens of political polls to work with in the presidential probability projections.

  167. Ys Guy January 14th, 2013 at 9:07 am

    in september long also said maybe they should bunt more. i think he was just feeling alot of pressure at that point and grasping at straws.

    i really dont think girardi is the problem. i dont know what he teaches about hitting but his makeup would sure imply that he would want them to hit according to the situation. but who knows.

  168. FiretheUMPIRE January 14th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    Blake there is a full season sample, so I wouldn’t necessarily call PECOTA inaccurate in this instance. Could statistics be more accurate? You can always make a case for that. The question is, what does the great Nate Silver think of Jesus Montero right now. We’re not floating arbitrary numbers here or fancy dreams – we’re taking a hard look at all the hard data available. Can you do better? Can Randy? What’s your system? PECOTA? NYT Electoral Map Generator?

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