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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Looking different, or only feeling different?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 15, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Those of you familiar with the Pinch Hitters series know that I like to disagree with our guest posters. In a lot of ways, that’s really the point of the series. My perspective only goes so far; it’s good to have other voices around here.

This morning, David brought up a topic worth discussing. There’s no doubt the Yankees offseason would be different had the team not traded Jesus Montero a year ago. Where our opinions differ is that I’m not so sure this offseason would look different, I think it might just feel different.

First a number-by-number reaction to David’s three main points.

1. The impact at catcher 
The Yankees haven’t signed a new catcher without Montero, I can’t imagine they would have signed one with him. Essentially, David and I agree on this point, thought I do wonder if Montero’s presence might have changed the Yankees decision to trade for Chris Stewart last spring. And even if they still had Montero, I’m not sure they’d be willing to give him regular playing time behind the plate.

2. The impact on Youkilis
With or without Montero, the Yankees still would have needed a new third baseman this winter. Montero impacting the Youkilis signing at all assumes the Yankees being locked into having Montero as their regular DH (and occasional catcher), and I’m not sure that would be the case. Last season, Montero hit .245/.281/.376 in the first half and had an especially brutal month of June (one RBI for the month). If he’d put up those numbers with the Yankees, would he have stayed in the big leagues long enough to moderately redeem himself in the second half, or would we have spent this winter talking about how Montero might be a prospect bust?

3. The impact on Justin Upton
Montero being in Seattle isn’t the reason the Yankees haven’t traded for Upton. The Yankees haven’t traded for Upton because they either want to keep their young players or don’t have the pitching to satisfy the Diamondback’s demands. If Montero-for-Upton were the solution, why wouldn’t the Mariners have had Montero in their trade package (especially considering Seattle is overflowing with DH options)? Arizona has Miguel Montero signed through 2017, and he put up better numbers than Jesus Montero did last season. Could Montero be used to go after a different trade target? Sure, probably, but there’s no guarantee that any other trade target would have worked out any differently than Michael Pineda.

How do I think keeping Montero would have affected this offseason? Here’s my own list of three.

1. Optimism (maybe)
Let’s say some of Montero’s struggles were largely due to playing in Seattle. After all, he did slug .438 on the road last season, so maybe his overall numbers would have been better if he’d stayed in a Yankees uniform. Certainly there wouldn’t be the overwhelming disappointment of Pineda’s shoulder injury hanging over this team. If there were still hope of Montero becoming a generational cleanup hitter, there might not be so many demands for the Yankees to do whatever it takes to get Upton or Giancarlo Stanton. One year of Montero might have changed the offseason conversation to be about the development of the next organizational hitter.

2. Key to the kingdom (still)
Having Montero certainly wouldn’t change this: The Yankees would still need pitching. They seem to have enough for now — in theory, re-signing Andy Pettitte and Hiroki Kuroda has plugged that hole for another year — but for 2014 and beyond, the rotation has some serious questions, and Pineda might actually be part of the answer.

3. The same old debate (again)
If Montero were still around, you know what we might be talking about most this offseason? Whether or not to trade him. His defense has always been questionable, and even the Mariners seemed to prefer him as a DH last season. With Alex Rodriguez’s latest hip injury and Derek Jeter’s busted ankle, we’d be locked into a constant debate about whether the Yankees need to keep the DH spot open, whether Montero is good enough with the glove to stay behind the plate, and whether Montero might be more valuable as trade bait for either an outfielder or a pitcher.

As an aside, you know what secondary debate would be going on in the middle of this hypothetical debate about whether or not to trade Montero? It would be a debate about what to do at catcher if Montero were gone. Is Francisco Cervelli really good enough to be an everyday guy? Is Austin Romine ready for the big leagues?

Guess some things might not be so different after all.

Associated Press photos

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153 Responses to “Looking different, or only feeling different?”

  1. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Come on. The Montero stuff got Old 6 Months ago.

  2. Tackelberry January 15th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    Its not gonna go away anytime soon either, at least not on here

  3. jacksquat January 15th, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    yankeefeminista January 15th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    JS, 2014 hasn’t arrived yet. Do you waste 2012 and 2013 based on 2014 by going after an “injury matrix” pitcher for your best trade chip? And how do you know who will or won’t be in our rotation in 2014? If the Yanks lose Hughes it is on them; other pitchers may be ready in 2014. Darvish was there for the taking. Banuelos and Betances aren’t the only pitchers in our system. Marshall may be ready. DePaula may move quickly. I hope he does; however, who knows if Pineda will ever pitch well out of the SP for us. The crystal ball doesn’t predict doom for the SP in 2014.

    They traded a young, cost controlled, unproven hitter for a young, cost controlled, at least a little proven pitcher. The injury risk comes with virtually all young pitchers, it is part of the cost of having cheap, good pitching. There was no automatic punting of 2012 and 2013 by trading for Pineda, it was not guaranteed that he would get a serious injury.

    Hughes does not count for 2014, he will be a free agent like all other free agents aside from familiarity.

    Signing Darvish or any other free agent pitching is no different from signing free agent hitters. One can do either, although it is probably unwise to rely on free agents too heavily for one or the other, just as with pitching.

    Marshall and DePaula aren’t looking like help in 2014 as much as our hitting, at present. Even after trading Jackson and Montero, our hitting prospects are outpacing our pitching, our top 5 or 6 prospects are all hitters. This is my argument, that we do not need hitting far more than pitching as some of you have repeated many times since Montero was traded.

  4. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    Chad is reading our comments and trying to stir up a full blown revolution…

    Le Resistance!!!

  5. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    Buhner for Phelps lasted a pretty long time even in the pre-interweb days.

  6. Against All Odds January 15th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    Tackelberry January 15th, 2013 at 12:02 pm
    Its not gonna go away anytime soon either, at least not on here

    ————————-

    I thought it was just an internet thing but when fans started to call up FAN and ESPN and regret them trading Montero I thought this is going to last for a while.

  7. blake January 15th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Is Danny Hultzen’s torn labrum available via trade?

  8. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    Give the people what they want!

  9. blake January 15th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    @jonmorosi: Matt Cain won’t play for Team USA in World Baseball Classic.

    Same old story for USA….nobody plays and the ones who do really don’t care that much.

    They should make this thing an extension of he futures game and let the kids have a chance to shine

  10. yankeefeminista January 15th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    JS, and who is the equivalent hitting we have been able to band-aid the team with to Kuroda and Pettitte? And who says they or someone else can’t contribute in 2014? Where are your equivalent hitters when are elite ones won’t likely be starting for us in 2014?

  11. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Sunk costs in sports:

    http://www.newyorker.com/talk/.....surowiecki

    The whole article is good if you have the time (it uses Mark Sanchez as a vehicle), but I like this part because it has far-reaching applicability:

    “So how do you counter this problem? “Taking the original decision-maker out of the picture and letting a fresh pair of eyes look at the pros and cons can help,” Arkes says.”

  12. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    OAA – It’s going to last until Pineda helps us forget… or Campos maybe. But we’re at least another season away from that.

    Like I said to MTU, I hope they take it slow with Pineda. But doing so puts them in a precarious position for 2014. They need to figure out what they have in all of these guys.. if 2013 is an audition, as I think it is, they might try everything they can to find out.

  13. blake January 15th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    @CHConfidential: Since 2009, Michael Bourn leads all centerfielders w/a 19.0 WAR. He gets put through #TheShredder today on @CHConfidential, 5:30 & 7:30pE.

    Nobody wants to pay for a speed guy who is already 30s past though

  14. yankeefeminista January 15th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    *our elite ones

  15. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    So jeter is a nobody who doesn’t care?

  16. Against All Odds January 15th, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    @ Shame yep that’s true

  17. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    They should make this thing an extension of he futures game and let the kids have a chance to shine

    ——————

    It would be pretty awesome if they pulled most of the talent from the AAA guys… they’d be crazy motivated to show off their skills.

  18. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    Though, as I’ve said many times, I still think they should eliminate the WBC and find a way to make the Olympics work for them.

    I still can’t get over how having a world competition that only ever takes place in the USA is a valuable marketing tool…

  19. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    I like the WBC, it beats the hell out of ST games. Even if most of team USA doesn’t care a lot of the other teams care and play like it.

  20. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    So jeter is a nobody who doesn’t care?

    —————-

    Where do you pull this stuff from..?

    blake’s point is that guys are worried about getting injured in a competition that holds no real value so they punk out on Team USA. Jeter’s participated multiple times already… but the value of the competition is built around the participants and Team USA has suffered from guys just not willing to take the risk. I don’t blame them. It’s a dumb competition that Selig created so he could have another reason to pat himself on the back (with hundred dollar bills).

  21. randy l. January 15th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    “. .these are Multi Million dollar baseball players .. . do you really think they pay attention to any coach…… Girardi and Cashman may hate the Yankee hitters approach…. but theres nothing they can do……”

    mike ri-

    granderson is a prime example of being traded for by cashman and coached by kevin long in a way that had to be sanctioned by girardi.

    they created a pull happy free swinging home run hitter.

  22. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    I pulled it from Blake’s comment quite clearly

  23. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    I think the ridiculous dimensions of NYSE have more to do with grander sons approach than long or girardi

  24. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Frickin iPad…

  25. jacksquat January 15th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    yankeefeminista January 15th, 2013 at 12:19 pm
    JS, and who is the equivalent hitting we have been able to band-aid the team with to Kuroda and Pettitte? And who says they or someone else can’t contribute in 2014? Where are your equivalent hitters when are elite ones won’t likely be starting for us in 2014?

    The Yankees have been fortunate that Pettitte wanted to come back and only with the Yankees, and Kuroda wanted to be a Yankee. Can you imagine the state of the Yankees if neither of those things happened? But you can’t count on that kind of thing every year, and there is a pretty good chance 2013 is the last hurrah for Pettitte, Kuroda and Mo. Which brings us back to my point that the team will need pitching just as much as hitting, so I disagree with the premise that trading Montero was a big(ger) mistake because he was traded for pitching.

  26. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Come on. The Montero stuff got Old 6 Months ago.

    And your schtick got old the first day you started posting here. Live and let live IMO

  27. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    I pulled it from Blake’s comment quite clearly

    ——————–

    You just like playing the contrarian. blake never made that assessment at all, especially not about Jeter, a guy coming off a major ankle injury.

    It’s really easy to see why guys don’t want to participate in the WBC right around the time when they’d be just getting themselves into game shape. I’m all for professionals participating in international competitions, but they could do a better job of promoting this around the world (as, I assume by the name, is intended) by varying the locations and changing the time table.

  28. randy l. January 15th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    “I think the ridiculous dimensions of NYSE have more to do with grander sons approach than long or girardi”

    here’s the problem i have with that.

    pitchers are going to pitch even more away to lefties because of the short right field dimensions.

    do you really think long teaches a hitter like granderson to expect the ball out there and to go with the pitch to left center?

    i’d like to see a yankee hitting coach do that.

    it’s simply not done right now.

  29. champ809 January 15th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    BTW

    Dave the minor error in your post is making Stephen Pryor a comparable to Cody Eppley.

    Pryor has plus stuff and could very easily be a shutdown closer in a couple of years ( he tops 100mph with his 4 seamer and sits 96-98) and most likely will be the setup/backup closer on the M’s this season if he’s not traded.

    Eppley is and forever will be a journeyman middle reliever at best and is the true definition of lightning in a bottle so catch it while you can. He will most likey have zero impact on the ’13 yanks if he even makes the team.

    You are in fact underselling the package that the M’s offered for Upton. Franklin is a top middle infield prospect with legit hit tool/power adn will stay @ SS, the relievers are true late inning arms and Pryor profiles as a closer and Tijuan Walker profiles as an ace/ #1 starter type in a couple of years

  30. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    You guys tried to run me off on Day 1. It did NOT work then, and it will Not work now. This is Exactly why you get so few New posters around here. Old Timers run-’em-off. Bullying on this Blog has been complained about Many times.

  31. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    So Blake makes a sweeping, dismissive comment about team USA and who plays and their commitment level and you attack me for calling him out?

    Among the nobodies. He dismissed are jeter, pedroia and pettitte.

  32. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    Typical of the “circle the wagons” attitude displayed frequently.

  33. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    You guys tried to run me off on Day 1. It did NOT work then, and it will Not work now. This is Exactly why you get so few New posters around here. Old Timers run-’em-off. Bullying on this Blog has been complained about Many times.

    Nobody is trying to run you off. Just commenting on your schtick… it’s obnoxious.

  34. Weeks January 15th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Montero for Stanton straight up! Oh wait

  35. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    I agree that long doesn’t help the situation, as I’ve stated I’d like to see another hitting coach either alongside or in place of him.

    But I still think the dimensions are the main reason for grandersons approach. And tex’s LH approach.

  36. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    Granderson’s AVG has been declining since 2007. That’s hardly attributable to YS.

  37. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    I’m cool with Donny even though we disagree a lot. Keep bringing it dude, just take it easy on the caps lock key! :)

  38. randy l. January 15th, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    “Old Timers run-’em-off. Bullying on this Blog has been complained about Many times.”

    donnybrook-

    patrick and i have sparred since 2007. i don’t think either of us accused the other of bullying.
    if you want a free and open discussion you’d better have a thick skin or find a less challenging place to express your ideas.

  39. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    Montero for Stanton straight up!
    ————————–
    Sounds fair, mike can probably still toss that frisbee slider!
    :)

  40. Frankg January 15th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    We all know that Cashman has made bad trades in recent years—Pineda and Granderson– and we need to keeo reminding him about them. It doesn’t help when Chad Jennings refers to the Jackson for Granderson deal and forgets about the other two good players we gave up—Ian Kenndey and Phil Coke. We can feel good that Cashman has not been lured back into the trading game this year, because he can sure get screwed badly when he deals.

    Discussions about what would have been had he not made those trades are interesting to some, but not really too productive about the present.

  41. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    I’d be OK with Grandy and the K’s, if the guy went for the SB’s like he did once upon a time. That dimension has diappeared from his offensive game. I ain’t even gonna get into the defensive lapses. He and Swish were pitiful defensively vs Detroit.

  42. randy l. January 15th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    “But I still think the dimensions are the main reason for grandersons approach. And tex’s LH approach.”

    i agree the short dimension is a factor, but long pours gasoline on the fire with his approach.

    a really smart hitter would know the ball is going to be teed up on the outside corner a majority of the time, and would pick his spots when he was deciding to pull the ball.

    granderson and teixeira could still get their share of home runs if they hammered a few balls to the left field gap. pitchers would come in more if they did that.

  43. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    So Blake makes a sweeping, dismissive comment about team USA and who plays and their commitment level and you attack me for calling him out?

    Among the nobodies. He dismissed are jeter, pedroia and pettitte.

    —————–

    You’re being attacked…? You’re misrepresenting his statement. And anyone that’s watched the WBC can tell you a lot of these guys aren’t playing ‘all in’ baseball – because they can’t. They’re not physically prepared at that point in the year (especially pitchers) to play in a high level competition. If saying so means I’m insulting Jeter, CC, Andy, Tex, George Washington, and all of these United States, then so be it.

    The timing of the Classic is terrible, it has all of the value of the All-Star break (not much), and it doesn’t promote the sport internationally. It’s a dumb competition created so the league can make more money and it shows up in the level of competition.

    I’ll watch it because anything is better than watching the C-squad in Spring Training, but no one is being insulted on here for not participating. It’s an issue with the Classic itself, not the participants.

  44. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    @YankeeSource

    Q: Jose Campos, thoughts? A: High ceiling, durability concerns but if he gets past that look out. Like him more than Pineda.

    @YankeeSource

    Q: Would you take a flyer on Javier Vazquez? A: Sure. Why not? Low risk- high reward. Cashman loves him.

    Would Javy even want a round 3 with the Yanks??

  45. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    I think this puts the YS canard about Granderson to rest because his approach started before he came here:

    http://www.detroittigersweblog.....randerson/

    While he’s been a pull hitter his whole career, it became much more pronounced in 2009 with half of his balls in play (50%)between the first baseline and the approximate spot of the second baseman. That easily topped his previous seasons where he had 42% and 46% in 2007 and 2008 respectively.

  46. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    @YankeeSource

    What up, Brian?

  47. RadioKev January 15th, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    You quickly invalidate your statements if you say the Granderson trade was a bad one, as if it’s axiom.

  48. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    “granderson and teixeira could still get their share of home runs if they hammered a few balls to the left field gap. pitchers would come in more if they did that.”
    ————————–
    So true even at the real YS this was often the problem. Gambia who hit to all fields in Oakland became a much less effective pull happy hitter when he came over. Every ST he’d work on going the other way but by opening day it never happened.

    It takes matsui-like discipline not to fall prey to the siren song of the short fence even when being pitched away.

  49. RadioKev January 15th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
    @YankeeSource

    Q: Jose Campos, thoughts? A: High ceiling, durability concerns but if he gets past that look out. Like him more than Pineda.
    ————

    Puke. I like the injured guy in the majors more. That @YankeeSource sometimes…

  50. blake January 15th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS: #mets wont give up wheeler. sides dont see a fit for justin upton trade at this point.

  51. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    I have close to NO interest in the WBC. I just hope guys like Pettitte do Not get dinged up, and that’s it.

  52. randy l. January 15th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    rich in nj-

    nice link

    cashman was a stat based guy.

    so he knew this about grandersin being pull happy and made the trade anyway?

  53. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    “You quickly invalidate your statements if you say the Granderson trade was a bad one, as if it’s axiom.”

    There are no axioms here, only opinions, preferably supported by facts.

    I think the test of most trades is can you undo it if you wanted to today, iow, is the value of that player still worth what you gave up, unless there is some extenuating circumstance, like a critical contribution to a WS.

    I don’t think anyone would argue that you could get AJack, IPK, and Coke back for Granderson. That’s why I don’t think it was a good trade, imo.

  54. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Rich where were the balls he whiffed on going?

  55. blake January 15th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    “So jeter is a nobody who doesn’t care?”

    No…i shouldn’t have said “nobody” but I think it’s pretty clear the tournament doesn’t matter as muh to US players as if does to other countries

  56. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    The WBC is kind of dumb but it might be interesting if the USA team makes a run. I’ll be watching ..

  57. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    randy

    They overestimate their ability to fix players, and they have been unwilling to endure the learning curves that are needed for their prospects to develop. That is probably would has led to most of these trades.

    Plus, Cashman, by his own words, overvalues power/patience in the absence of AVG.

  58. blake January 15th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    “Franklin is a top middle infield prospect with legit hit tool/power adn will stay @ SS”

    That’s debatable…:is love to have him but many folks see him as a 2B in the big leagues

  59. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    I have close to NO interest in the WBC.

    ———————–

    You know what this blog could use? A list of the reasons why!

  60. randy l. January 15th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    “It takes matsui-like discipline not to fall prey to the siren song of the short fence even when being pitched away.”

    abreu and damon could go the other way too.

  61. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    @MjordanW9

    He wasnt lying lol RT @enbunting: This isn’t even fair @jakecave8 http://instagr.am/p/Ugkjo8zUB7/

    —————–

    Mason fangirl-ing Jeter.

  62. blake January 15th, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    I just think the WBC woukd be better if they could just make it a prospect showcase more or less….. They could play it as soon as the WS was over and basically just make it a big Futures game…..MLB could hype the prospects like crazy and get their names out there before they reach the majors…..the injury worries for high paid stars would be gone and you’d have hungry kids out there trying to show their stuff

  63. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    “Rich where were the balls he whiffed on going?”

    Take a look at his Ks; they have always been high but variable.

    http://www.baseball-reference......cu01.shtml

    174 in 2006 was his high until last season’s 195. They actually declined in his first year in NY (116, from 141 in the prior season).

    In his great season here, he still had 169.

    So again, the K thing has been a career long issue for him.

  64. RadioKev January 15th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Rich,

    That comment wasn’t intended for you. First, you can make an argument that keeping those guys and not making the trade would have been a good decision. I don’t think that makes it a “bad” trade. Granderson’s been one of the Yankees most productive players in his time here. He’s outproduced Jackson over that time period too, let’s not forget.

    The argument of Jackson vs Granderson is one of projection: who will be better next year? Undecided.

    Honestly, our bullpen has been great since 2010. Who cares about losing Coke? I don’t.

    We can make the argument about Kennedy in the AL East vs NL West. It would be nice to have an arm to throw those innings, for sure. I highly doubt he would have been as successful on the Yankees, but argue if you want. Maybe saying the combined production of Kennedy and Jackson outweighs Granderson, but Granderson has giving us quite a lot as just a single player.

    I don’t think it’s simply “bad.” I also don’t think it’s simply “good.”

  65. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Some ppl would say that granderson pulling the ball in Detroit would make him a good candidate for the Yankees. And he should pull the ball when it’s pullable. He just tries to pull everything now which is the problem imo

  66. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    I prefer The Olympics suggestion. With some of the garbage events that remain, it’s an Outrage that Baseball got booted.

  67. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    The WBC is kind of dumb but it might be interesting if the USA team makes a run. I’ll be watching ..

    ————————

    Me too, I watch every time they’ve played but even the structure of the schedule isn’t conducive to drawing an audience… something like 50% of the games are during the day in the first rounds.

  68. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    @YankeeSource

    Q: 2014 offseason, any big moves? A: I think it will be a frustrating offseason for Yankees fans. Bare down.

  69. RadioKev January 15th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Granderson’s problem last year was more than just striking out too much or pulling the ball too much. By year’s end he was simply lost mentally.

  70. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    blake January 15th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    “Franklin is a top middle infield prospect with legit hit tool/power adn will stay @ SS”

    That’s debatable…:is love to have him but many folks see him as a 2B in the big leagues

    ——————–

    …Try to sign him and let Cano go west?

    I still can’t imagine them letting Robbie walk.

  71. randy l. January 15th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    “Some ppl would say that granderson pulling the ball in Detroit would make him a good candidate for the Yankees. ”

    maybe to a shallow thinking baseball person.

    what great left handed pull hitters do the yankees have?

    falling into the trap of trying to pull the ball at all times is a very negative thing.

    the really smart left handed hitter will ignore the temptation.

    because you have power, you can use it by not using it.

  72. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    I said it a lot last fall tha the Gardner injury really hurt granderson who never got a day off and had to cover behind ibanez a lot

    Putting him in LF should help him

  73. pkyankfan69 January 15th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 1:23 pm
    I said it a lot last fall tha the Gardner injury really hurt granderson who never got a day off and had to cover behind ibanez a lot
    ————————————————
    Playing in 4 more games in 2012 than in 2011 cost Grandy 100+ points of OPS?

    Pitchers just realized that they didn’t have to throw Granderson strikes anymore and he would still swing and get himself out.

  74. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    Granderson is an awesome player to have and the only reason to look back on the deal with any regret is because of the shift in philosophy since.

    A year ago, we were all sitting in here trying to figure out who to resign: Swisher or Granderson…

  75. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 15th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    Will the Yankees add a lefty part time DH? And if so, who might that be?

  76. RadioKev January 15th, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    “Pitchers just realized that they didn’t have to throw Granderson strikes anymore and he would still swing and get himself out.”

    Why was his walk percentage higher than his career average last season?

  77. Against All Odds January 15th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
    @YankeeSource

    What up, Brian?

    ——————–

    lol :D

  78. blake January 15th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Tex has to pull the ball from the left side simply because his swing mechanics won’t really allow him to do much else…..Granderson could hit the ball tr other way much easier

  79. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    no im not blaming everything on granderson being tired or on the fences or on long. these are all factors that worked into his results. he sure did look tired to me in september, but obviously wasnt in june.

    and having gardner back isnt going to lift his ba or cut down on his k’s by a large margin.

    but it will help.

    and taking outside pitches the other way would definitely help, too.

  80. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    I apologize if this was posted earlier this morning but it looks like the Dodgers are interested in Rafael Soriano. So that extra draft pick is looking good.

    It’s possible that the Yankees will be able to scoop up a whole new generation of prospects in the next 2 drafts with 2 first rounders (1 each year), 2 second rounders, a pick for Swisher, a pick for Soriano, a pick for Granderson and a pick for Phil Hughes.

    If they can add 8 solid prospects to the farm (excluding international talent) then they can trade away some current prospects for cost controlled players to help reload for 2014. But I do think they should wait until the offseason because that would give 1 more year of development and value to players like Mason Williams who are currently too far from the majors to bring back a player reflective of their value.

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?.....id=2521705

  81. Ys Guy January 15th, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    im not one to jump on the new trend for no reason but if long is as good at mechanics as his reputation suggests maybe they could use a second hitting coach who’s more about approach and situational hitting, which is not apparent on the yankees.

  82. pkyankfan69 January 15th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    RadioKev January 15th, 2013 at 1:36 pm
    “Pitchers just realized that they didn’t have to throw Granderson strikes anymore and he would still swing and get himself out.”

    Why was his walk percentage higher than his career average last season?
    ——————————————————————————-
    Because he’s a more feared hitter now with all of the HR’s over the past 2 years.

    His BB went way down in the second half last season when he really struggled.

  83. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    Are any other 1B’s going to be on the USA roster..? I was reading G.Love’s comments yesterday and completely agree that if we hear one word about Tex’s workload later in the season I might scream.

  84. RadioKev January 15th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    My point is, I think it’s a greater problem than Granderson not swinging at strikes. It’s Granderson not recognizing pitches. That’s why they had his eyes checked out.

    Personally, I think the strikeouts got into his head too much. He was all out of whack. Wasn’t getting to the fastballs he normally would, couldn’t handle the low and away breaking ball. He’s said before he wants to cut his strikeouts down, but I think it snowballed on him in the second half because he was trying to do too much.

  85. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Tex is usually horrid in April so maybe if he starts his season earlier through WBC then he will be closer to finding his swing by the time the season gets underway and maybe his overall numbers look better at the end of the season because he won’t have to dig himself out of such a huge Giambi sized hole. I hope Tex looked at the back of his baseball card. It’s not the same anymore.

  86. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    From Davidoff’s column: http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....z2I4SZ8UMQ

    Whom would you rather have for the next four years? Teixeira for $90 million, or Swisher for $56 million (with a $14 million vesting option for 2017)?

  87. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 15th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    I would like to see the Yankees honor the 1998 team somehow this season. It is the 15th anniversary of one the best teams in the past few decades.

  88. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    RadioKev

    OK, but: “He’s outproduced Jackson over that time period too, let’s not forget.”

    Sure, bu that was expected given the respective points in their career. It was admittedly trading future for the present, but theme is a major reason why the Yankees are in somewhat precarious situation if austerity is real.

    “Honestly, our bullpen has been great since 2010. Who cares about losing Coke? I don’t.”

    Like any player, he’s an asset that could be used more productively, and perhaps enable them to trade Logan, which they should be doing anyway.

    The same holds true of IPK, no matter what division suits him best.

    As for Granderson being out of whack, he has been in some form or another since 2009, except for 2011. Yet they pulled the trigger anyway.

  89. blake January 15th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    ” Whom would you rather have for the next four years? Teixeira for $90 million, or Swisher for $56 million (with a $14 million vesting option for 2017)?”

    @KenDavidoff: Today’s blog post discusses Mark Teixeira, Nick Swisher, the AL East, Aaron vs. Bonds and Pettitte in the WBC. http://t.co/2Ln6FHsS

    Swisher for me and its not real close….much cheaper and his swing will age better

  90. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    If Tex has an MVP caliber year I would try to move his contract in full. I know he loves New York but players have waived no-trade clauses in the past and none of us lives inside Mark Teixeira’s head and of course he’s going to publicly state that he absolutely refuses to waive it.

  91. G. Love January 15th, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Shame,

    I’m telling you. I can already hear Girardi in a post game interview state that Tex is a little burned out from all the baseball he played re:WBC to explain the further dip in numbers.

    I hope I’m wrong.

    If the 23 million dollar man doesn’t hit like a 23 million dollar man, it’s going to be a very long season with no further additions.

  92. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Yankeesource believes the 2014 off season will be frustrating for the fans? No kidding.

    I believe Teixiera is going to rebound significantly with a full year of the juicepress. Watch out American League.

  93. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Granderson’s problem is he wasn’t signed to be ‘the guy’…. but now he’s gotta be since it’s only him, Cano and Tex in their prime years.

  94. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    I take TEX and his Gold Gloves.

  95. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    “Swisher for me and its not real close….much cheaper and his swing will age better”

    Me too.

  96. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    I think I’d take Swish + a guy like Laroche for the same cost as Tex and for less years.

  97. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    G. Love – You’re likely not wrong, unfortunately.

    This is a guy that’s had multiple groin strains over the last 2 years, right? Or did he break something a couple of years ago in the playoffs? Either way, I don’t love it. But like FiretheUmp said, maybe him playing competitive baseball in March/April will help avoid the spring swoon we’ve all gotten too used to.

    I’m actually way more worried about Tex than Andy in the WBC. There are still no full rosters available but I’d like to see if any other 1Bs will be there.

  98. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    Jerkface says:
    January 15, 2013 at 2:00 pm
    I think I’d take Swish + a guy like Laroche for the same cost as Tex and for less years.

    Absolutely

  99. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    I think I’d take Swish + a guy like Laroche for the same cost as Tex and for less years.

    —————-

    JF doin’ the damn thing on all of us..

    Good point.

  100. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    “I’m telling you. I can already hear Girardi in a post game interview state that Tex is a little burned out from all the baseball he played re:WBC to explain the further dip in numbers.”

    Sadly

  101. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    STOP The Kobayashi Maru manuever Capt. It was TEX or Swish only.

  102. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Tex is still a good player and has value….and if they didnt have this budget it wouldn’t be as big a problem….it’s just when a guy is soaking up 23 million of a limited payroll you need him to be more than a usefull player.

    I don’t think he can ever be much more than a homer threat from the left side again….his mechanics are just too poor and age has caught up with him there….we can hope for walks and homers vs RHP and not much else ImO…..but where he can still really help the club is obviously defensively and vs LHP….. They really need him to get back to being that .900 OpS hitter vs LHP

  103. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    DONNYBROOK says:
    January 15, 2013 at 2:05 pm
    STOP The Kobayashi Maru manuever Capt. It was TEX or Swish only.

    No when you’d have like 10 million extra dollars per yeae to spend if it were Swisher

  104. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    But the 90 million attached to Tex and the price comparison implies you can do something more with the savings. The comparison was not TEX vs. Swish at an equal price. That’s a no-brainer.

  105. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Blake beat me to it.

  106. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    Choosing between Swisher & Tex is of course the choice between having extra freedom for other players vs not having it. It is the essence of the question. The cost is part of the question.

  107. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    Lance is predictably getting killed today and maybe rightful so….but how many folks are alive today because of the money raised by his foundation?

  108. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Lance Armstrong doped in a sport full of dopers, pretty much all of the winners / top 3 guys have been popped. And he crushed them all. By a mile (or more!). Who cares!

  109. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    The 1:56 Post is clear Capt.

  110. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Which is why its interesting that you are confused by it.

  111. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    As Drag Line said in Cool Hand Luke, “Ain’t nothin’ understood”.

  112. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Last 3 seasons: fWAR

    Tex: 10.2
    Swish: 11.8

    Probably a little light for Tex because WAR doesn’t really do a great job of accounting for his defense at 1B but they have been similar value players over the last 3 seasons……the money difference makes it a no brainer for Swisher and Im not so sure I wouldn’t take swish if they were owed the same amount simply because I think his swing will age better

  113. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    @JeffPassan: Source: Rafael Soriano agrees to two-year, $28M deal with Nationals. Deal contains vesting option for third year. Story coming on Y! Sports.

    Wow

  114. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Boras got Soriano at least double his money …..never doubt him

  115. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    SWEET! Draft pick

  116. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Called it.

  117. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    Lance is predictably getting killed today and maybe rightful so….but how many folks are alive today because of the money raised by his foundation?

    —————–

    What will be infinitely more fun is watching the writers/journalists rip Oprah…

    He did recover from unreal odds. The fact that he recovered enough to win or even compete is still pretty impressive. Still don’t like the guy of course… but that’s more because of my weird love of Sheryl Crow…

  118. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Boras has made patience an artform.

  119. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Wow on the Nats making a big play… shorten up that pen and they can keep pulling Strasburg in the 6th all year.

    Also: the word prost@te gets caught in the censor???

  120. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    People that don’t think boras will get Cano 200 million or close to it just haven’t paid attention

  121. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Though I said the Yankees should have worked a sign & trade to get back Morse. The Nats one weakness was potentially bullpen, they are truly the #1 team in MLB going into the year.

  122. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    “People that don’t think boras will get Cano 200 million or close to it just haven’t paid attention”

    Trade. Him. Now.

  123. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    I thought then jays would get Soriano

  124. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Well the Nats were considering Marcum I thought, so they’re still searching for a starter. I count Strasburg, Gonzalez, Zimmerman, Haren… Am I missing somebody?

  125. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    The expos are absolutely loaded

  126. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    “The expos are absolutely loaded”

    The best they have been since the despicable lockout of ’94.

  127. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    Passen or Roshenthal break like everything

  128. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    “The best they have been since the despicable lockout of ’94.”

    That club was nasty

  129. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE says:
    January 15, 2013 at 2:20 pm
    Well the Nats were considering Marcum I thought, so they’re still searching for a starter. I count Strasburg, Gonzalez, Zimmerman, Haren… Am I missing somebody?

    Detwiler

  130. JoeyVegas January 15th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Well the Nats were considering Marcum I thought, so they’re still searching for a starter. I count Strasburg, Gonzalez, Zimmerman, Haren… Am I missing somebody?

    Detwiler

  131. JoeyVegas January 15th, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    I bet Texas pays Bourn next

  132. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS: soriano 3rd year option vests if he finished 12 games in 2 years. #nats

    Geez…So it’s basically a 3 year deal

  133. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    Nats going all in on their window

  134. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    Detwiler, sheesh, they’re stacked.

  135. JoeyVegas January 15th, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    Unless they continue to have Storen close.

  136. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    @jimcallisBA: If #Nationals sign Soriano, they forfeit pick No. 29 & Yankees add a pick that right now is No. 32. #mlbdraft

  137. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE says:
    January 15, 2013 at 2:29 pm
    Detwiler, sheesh, they’re stacked.

    Yes…pretty much

  138. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    JoeyVegas says:
    January 15, 2013 at 2:29 pm
    Unless they continue to have Storen close.

    I can’t imagine they’d spend that much money to have him set up after he was so mediocre doing it in NY

  139. Cashmoney January 15th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Nat and Sori on 2-3 year deal make sense. Bourne might get his money but I think whoever give him a long term and lucrative contract, i guess 4 years or more, will not get their money worth.

  140. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS: soriano 3rd year option vests if he finished 12 games in 2 years. #nats

    Geez…So it’s basically a 3 year deal

    —————-

    WTH kind of vesting option is that lol???

    Man, that’s a sweet deal. And a really good ballclub.

    I’m glad we’re not in that division….. the Phillies might make a play for Bourn now.. they need something.

  141. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    @AdamKilgoreWP: Source: Soriano deal is done. 2 years, $28 million. Vesting option for another $14 million if he finishes 120 combined over ’13 and ’14.

    Boras is good…what can you say

  142. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    I think Bourn will be the toughest of the 3 to find a home for

  143. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Oh 120 games….not 12….stupid Heyman

  144. JoeyVegas January 15th, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Atlanta might have to suck it up and re-sign Bourn themselves. Put BJ in left.

  145. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    This would be a pretty good time for Soriano to untuck.

  146. JoeyVegas January 15th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    120 games is a lot.

  147. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    JoeyVegas says:
    January 15, 2013 at 2:32 pm
    Atlanta might have to suck it up and re-sign Bourn themselves. Put BJ in left.

    Or get Jups

  148. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    Robinson Cano is a player who would give the Nats dynasty potential in my opinion.

    The Yankees should explore trade talks but they won’t.

    I like Gio Gonzalez, Anthony Rendon…

  149. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 15th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    Nationals must feel they are getting someone back in the Morse trade at the value of their 1st round pick. But they lose draft pool money as well.

  150. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    Rizzo and Boras are simpatico

  151. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    :arrow:

    This way!

  152. Cashmoney January 15th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    I guess so. Cano has been surrounded by all star players since he came up, mostly, I don’t see him as a difference maker. as for dynastic potential, he sure has not given Yanks dynastic potential imo. This is not saying he is no good… but takes a whole elements to go right .. not just an individual.

  153. longtime January 15th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    ok so how many picks do the Yanks have in the first two rounds ?

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