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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Untuck! Soriano lands in Washington

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 15, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Rafael Soriano is finally off the market.

According to Jeff Passan, Soriano has signed a two-year, $28-million deal with the Nationals. The deal includes a vesting option for a third year.

Despite the long wait, it seems that Soriano was perfectly justified in opting out of his Yankees contract and turning down the Yankees qualifying offer. He locked up more money by signing with the aggressive Nats.

Associated Press photo

 
 

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151 Responses to “Untuck! Soriano lands in Washington”

  1. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    So the Morse trade is a partial financial offset?

  2. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    @AdamKilgoreWP: Source: Soriano deal is done. 2 years, $28 million. Vesting option for another $14 million if he finishes 120 combined over ’13 and ’14.

    Boras is good…what can you say

    —————–

    Boras is going to get Cano a truck filled with solid gold bars, 7 virgins, and a gallon of vampire blood.

    And I agree with Fire, Cano would put the Nats in potentially monster territory for a couple of years in a wide open division.

  3. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    Absolutely hilarious that Soriano’s contract could be worth more than his previous one.

  4. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    120 innings over 2 years is how the third year vests?

  5. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    “And I agree with Fire, Cano would put the Nats in potentially monster territory for a couple of years in a wide open division.”

    Yanks don’t have the stones to do something like that

  6. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    120 innings over 2 years is how the third year vests?

    He needs to pitch the final inning of 120 games over 2 years. As closer for ATL, TB, and NYY he averaged about 55 games finished in each year.

  7. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Jerkface says:
    January 15, 2013 at 2:37 pm
    Absolutely hilarious that Soriano’s contract could be worth more than his previous one.

    Who is their randy Levine?

  8. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    120 finishes will be a lot harder than 12 :)

  9. nyrussintampa January 15th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    can someone explain what number picks overall will we now get between swisher and soriano… and our regular pick.

  10. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    True, true, Cashman doesn’t have the Goji berries.

  11. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    The apparent unwillingness to think outside the box could cost the Yankees in a big way as time goes on.

  12. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Rich in NJ says:
    January 15, 2013 at 2:35 pm
    So the Morse trade is a partial financial offset?

    Yea and they should get a prospect or two back to offset the loss of the pick….but they are losing draft pool money as well

  13. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    “True, true, Cashman doesn’t have the Goji berries.”

    Decisions like that aren’t made by GMs.

  14. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Blake-

    They have the Stones just not the money.

    ;)

  15. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    “And I agree with Fire, Cano would put the Nats in potentially monster territory for a couple of years in a wide open division.”

    Yanks don’t have the stones to do something like that

    —————

    Like we’ve discussed before, it all comes down to picking a lane. The Yanks just won’t do it, they think they can tread water. What they might be doing is shooting themselves in the foot for a couple of seasons in a row.

  16. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    Knowing that boras is the greatest agent of all time….and that he extra good with premier clients….you’d think the yanks would at least consider their options with him

  17. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    Soriano is not gonna get 120 innings over th next 2 years.

  18. Cashmoney January 15th, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    i wonder Yanks will have the money to sign all those extra picks.. I meant how much are they slotted for? also, they might influence their draft strategy , one would assume.

  19. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    @JeffPassan: Nationals were willing to lose first-round pick because of lesser talent at No. 29 and the relatively low amount of bonus-pool money.

  20. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Maybe not, but I just wanted to seize the opportunity associate Goji berries with Brian Cashman.

  21. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    The Yankees might be in someone else’s hands in a couple of years.

    ;)

  22. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    Soriano is not gonna get 120 innings over th next 2 years.

    He pitched 67 last year , 62 in 2010, and 75 in 2009.

  23. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Good for Soriano, glad he got paid. More glad it’s not the Yankees paying.

  24. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    @AdamKilgoreWP: The Nats-Soriano deal is done. One nugget: Owner Ted Lerner was very involved in the negotiations. http://t.co/wQspTm6a

  25. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    The Yankees should have 3 picks within the first 60 or so.

    2 within the 1st 40 I think.

  26. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Hal is too comfortable. He is thought of as a success just for being George’s son. To this point, he doesn’t seem motivated to take risks.

  27. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Here is how it works for NY Yankee fans in case anyone important is reading this:

    Winning > Having Cano

    This is real life.

    The preference is having Cano AND winning but since Team Greedy has to make compromises…

  28. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    MTU January 15th, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    Soriano is not gonna get 120 innings over th next 2 years.

    ——————

    Nope… but does anyone doubt Boras might not be able to swing that in his favor by the time he’s an FA again lol?

  29. G. Love January 15th, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Good for Soriano. The guy deserves to be someone’s closer. He really thrives in that role as a player. He really pitched so well for us last year and I didn’t want to have to deal with him being depressed having to set up for Mo again. That was a bad fit, but the Yankees had the right idea signing him for Mo insurance at the time. It paid off in my opinion.

  30. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    If you could get Morse, Espinosa, Rendon and a pitching prospect for Cano then Id do it…… Then just try to sign him next winter if you still want to

  31. Cashmoney January 15th, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    so it’s a two year deal to me in essence.

  32. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    Cashmoney January 15th, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    i wonder Yanks will have the money to sign all those extra picks.. I meant how much are they slotted for? also, they might influence their draft strategy , one would assume.

    ——————–

    *sigh*

  33. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    I’d want Gio Gonzalez and Rendon for Cano, Nunez and Nova.

  34. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    With this signing, the Yanks get the Nationals’ first round draft pick. According to Jim Callis, that would be the 32nd pick of the draft. The draft order could move a bit when Kyle Lohse and Michael Bourn finally ink deals, but for now, it seems as though the Bombers will have around $5 million to spend based on the slotting system. Three late-first round picks will allow the Yanks a nice talent grab at the end.

    http://www.riveraveblues.com

  35. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE says:
    January 15, 2013 at 2:48 pm
    I’d want Gio Gonzalez and Rendon for Cano, Nunez and Nova.

    Don’t think they’d trade Gio for a year of Cano

  36. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    I don’t want the Yankees to do Culver/Bichette reaches with these pick. Get value.

  37. FiretheUMPIRE January 15th, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    “Three late-first round picks will allow the Yanks a nice talent grab at the end.”

    The draft strategy that seems to have surfaced appears ingenious. And I have confidence management can repeat the feat next year by taking a pick for Granderson and Hughes.

    This new crop of prospects adds a flexibility to reloading for 2014 that most of us did not account for here when crunching the budget. We can trade much of the farm and it could bounce right back, the way the draft is being planned here.

  38. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    He’s gotta pitch 120 innings or 120 FINAL innings as in the 9th inning..? Does the 8th and 9th count as 2 innings?

    And as an aside, how do they deal with partial innings in these cases?

  39. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Rich,

    So you liked the Heathcott and Hensley picks?

  40. blake January 15th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Rich in NJ says:
    January 15, 2013 at 2:50 pm
    I don’t want the Yankees to do Culver/Bichette reaches with these pick. Get value.

    They’ll get some off the board signable guy…..

  41. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    He’s gotta pitch 120 innings or 120 FINAL innings as in the 9th inning..? Does the 8th and 9th count as 2 innings?

    And as an aside, how do they deal with partial innings in these cases?

    Its not innings. Its a stat called Games Finished. You get 1 game finished if you throw the last pitch of a game for your team.

  42. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Patrick

    Yes. They weren’t overdrafts.

  43. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    btw, I’m not saying that Culver or Bichette can’t develop. Only that it matters where you draft players.

  44. Cashmoney January 15th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    We will see, my guess is that Yanks will go with college picks and hoping for quick fruition. The catch is normally college premium talents don’t last that low. I am sure they will mix up some.

  45. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    JF-

    And the odds he stays completely healthy for the next 2 seasons ?

    Healthy enough to handle that many innings.

    He is not getting younger and he has a very checkered health history.

    ;)

  46. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    And the odds he stays completely healthy for the next 2 seasons ?

    Healthy enough to handle that many innings.

    He is not getting younger and he has a very checkered health history.

    Yea thats true, but as I pointed out he beat 60 3 times in the past 4 years. That Nats are probably hoping for an april lat strain or something.

  47. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 15th, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    I like the Tyler Austin 10th round find in 2010 and then the Mason Williams mid round sign, even though they drafted Cito Culver, who the jury is still out on.

  48. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    I don’t want the Yankees to do Culver/Bichette reaches with these pick. Get value.

    ——————

    This is another pain in the ass with this club… Having the picks is great if you trust your team to utilize them.

    If these were the Devils draft picks I know we’d have a stacked AHL team…….

  49. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 15th, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    I also like the Mark Montgomery pick in 2010.

  50. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    Boras was probably holding out for another three year deal and this was the compromise. It gives the Nats a little protection.

  51. PacoDooley January 15th, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:35 pm
    So the Morse trade is a partial financial offset?
    ————————-

    Should have worked in a sign and trade so the Nats could keep their draft pick and the Yankees could get Morse (assume the Ys would have added something to a deal).

    Amazed he got that much – I had him getting 3/30 at the start of the off season and didn;t think he would come close to 14 per year.

  52. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    “If these were the Devils draft picks I know we’d have a stacked AHL team…….”

    The Devils and the Giants have been the two best run teams in NY over the last 10-15 years, by far.

  53. Cashmoney January 15th, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    except they both in NJ Rich :D , later all.

  54. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    G. Love-

    Sometimes you just get lucky and stumble into the right solution.

    I think that is what Soriano was.

  55. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    Its not innings. Its a stat called Games Finished. You get 1 game finished if you throw the last pitch of a game for your team.

    ————–

    Gotcha, thanks JF.

  56. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    You guys are talkin’ like this is an expansion team. Hal has you got you buffalo’d. He should be congratulated, and You should be flogged. This is THE greatest franchise in sports history. You tie your horse up to draft picks, and your just wishin’ onna star, while Hal laughs all the way to the bank. The Yanks should be signing the Best established players available, and Hal should be getting lambasted by the fan base.

  57. chicken little January 15th, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    The Yanks need to go for as sure things as possible in an MLB draft this year. This way they either have multiple talented prospects coming up at the same time (and if you have 5-6 of them, 2-3 may work out) or can do what has become the norm — package 3-5 guys for a top player or two. I don’t want any reaches in the hope a guy works out until maybe the 4th or 5th round. Reaches only work if you are willing to spend money in free agency to fill holes. Hal clearly isn’t.

  58. pat January 15th, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    Sweet Caroline bah bah bah. Good times never felt so good so good so good so good

  59. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    For anyone interested in the media side of things:

    @Deadspin

    Deadspin, Gawker trade managing editors in hot-stove action. http://deadsp.in/VFmOi0V

  60. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Also, JF, not sure if you caught the Yankee hotstove on YES last night but the poll question was:

    ‘Do you believe in sabermetrics?’

    Seriously.

    Like, ‘do you believe in aliens’ or something.

    Watching Sherman explain OPS+ was funny as hell. It’s like a Sesame Street level of learning, and these guys are just catching up that this stuff matters to people.

    It’s really good they’re covering it at all, though.

  61. blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    @jcrasnick: Ted Lerner has joined Mike Ilitch as one of Scott Boras’ go-to owners after the New Year. #sugardaddy

  62. blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    I remember when Cone started throwing out saber terms in broadcasts a couple of years ago…..that was funny

  63. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Donny,

    Even if the Yanks had an unlimited payroll like they did in the past it would be a bad decision to sign Soriano. Yankees already have a stacked bullpen and 14 mill per year is a bad allocation of resources. Plus they get a 1st round pick, very valuable. Even if money isn’t an issue the 1st round pick is more than enough motivation to pass on Soriano.

    You can fill most of a bullpen with really cheap players, it doesn’t make sense to spend $14 million on one guy unless that guy is Mariano Rivera – the greatest reliever of all time.

  64. G. Love January 15th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    MTU,

    I agree. He did stumble into 2 really good opportunities when the teams everyone expected to sign him showed no interest at what Boras thinks he’s worth.

    That being said, I think Soriano really deserves it. He was one of the best closers last year and I don’t de-value closers like most do.

    We’ve been so spoiled by Mo that we really have no idea how bad the 9th inning can truly get. We all saw how Robbie stumbled being handed the baton. Soriano was excellent for us and he’s going to make that Nats bullpen very tough.

    Cashman was moaning about losing the pick to sign Soriano. Now he loses that excuse. He got 2 years of the player and got the pick back. I hope he can somehow pick someone decent.

  65. pat January 15th, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    EricFisherSBJ
    #Nationals to forfeit first-round draft pick (no 29) amid Soriano signing. #Yankees now a grouping of sorts w picks 27, 31 and 32 come June.

  66. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Also, JF, not sure if you caught the Yankee hotstove on YES last night but the poll question was:

    ‘Do you believe in sabermetrics?’

    Seriously.

    Like, ‘do you believe in aliens’ or something.

    Watching Sherman explain OPS+ was funny as hell. It’s like a Sesame Street level of learning, and these guys are just catching up that this stuff matters to people.

    It’s really good they’re covering it at all, though.

    I wish they would just treat it simply and seriously, instead of this hocus pocus junk. MLB Networks CC show has been pretty good about that.

  67. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    “If these were the Devils draft picks I know we’d have a stacked AHL team…….”

    The Devils and the Giants have been the two best run teams in NY over the last 10-15 years, by far.

    ——————

    It’s true.. I know they’re different sports and the development process in baseball is longer, but talent is talent and knowing what to do with it and how to pipeline it is the key to consistency.

    I’m telling you right now, if Lou Lamoriello was in charge of the Yankees every guy on our team would know how to lay down a proper bunt and they’d have been taught it at every level from day 1 through their big league debut.

  68. G. Love January 15th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    I definitely wouldn’t have resigned Soriano to be our set up man. It’s putting a circle in a square. He’s a closer. He’s a different pitcher when the game is left to him. We all saw that.

  69. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    G. Love-

    I meant WE stumbled into the right decision on Soriano.

    He was an afterthought. Not originally in the plan.

    ;)

  70. G. Love January 15th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    By the way, Detroit’s really going to regret passing on Soriano.

    I’m thrilled they didn’t get him.

  71. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    “I’m telling you right now, if Lou Lamoriello was in charge of the Yankees every guy on our team would know how to lay down a proper bunt and they’d have been taught it at every level from day 1 through their big league debut.”

    And Hal would look crazy smart. I doubt Lou and Randy would get along though…, because Lou wouldn’t tell him what to do if he interfered.

  72. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    I wish Cashman’s patience would pay off like that of Boras.

    The Yankees used to be the go to team for Boras. Now, they are the go to team for Waste Management. Cleaning out the dumpsters one player at a time.

  73. blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    Lets say boras decides to do a pillow deal for Bourn and you can trade Grandy for something pretty good….now that the Yanks have 3 picks in the 1st round would you sign Bourn to the 1 year deal and trade Granderson? Bourn was a 6.4 WAR player last year…..the outfield defense would be incredible

  74. G. Love January 15th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    MTU,

    Gotcha. Yes, we did sort of stumble into the right decision both times I think. We needed him when we signed him in case Mo or Joba went down and both did.

    Now we get the pick that everyone was bellyaching about losing back.

    It’s all good.

  75. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    I’m Not recommending signing Soriano, but to believe that these draft picks are gonna Save the Yankee organization is pie-in-the-sky thinking. We have already seen what the current Regime does with the picks, and the developement of the players drafted. NO THANKS

  76. blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Sign Bourn
    Granderson for Montero!

  77. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    “I’m telling you right now, if Lou Lamoriello was in charge of the Yankees every guy on our team would know how to lay down a proper bunt and they’d have been taught it at every level from day 1 through their big league debut.”

    And Hal would look crazy smart. I doubt Lou and Randy would get along though…, because Lou wouldn’t tell him what to do if he interfered.

    ——————

    Lou wouldn’t be a good fit because of his opinions on promoting individual players (he doesn’t believe in it lol, everyone is an interchangeable part), but there was a time when it looked like Lou might be up for the job. Also was really hoping the Devils would end up with YES covering them… but the deal fell apart because of George’s battle with the Cablevision guys.

  78. G. Love January 15th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Donny –

    With you on believing the draft picks are our salvation. If the guy picking for us passes up the players we’ve been passing up for signability nonsense with these, they won’t amount to anything.

    I’m just referencing the returned draft pick re:Soriano because this place was almost intolerable with all the hand wringing 2 years ago over losing a pick to sign Soriano. You got the pick back and had an All star caliber closer last year when Mo got hurt.

  79. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Blake,

    Lord love you. Optimism is your middle name.

    I would truly be happy if I knew Cashman thought as much of these possibilities as you and others do. And your thoughts are often good ones.

  80. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    We got guys around here rejoicing, because the Yanks got X number of picks outta the 1st 60 picks or whatever. THIS is insane. Your casting pearls before swine.

  81. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Donny,

    Please … stop

    Nobody said draft picks will SAVE the Yankees but they do help. 1st round picks are extremely valuable. More valuable than Soriano.. the Yanks already have Joba, Aardsma, Robertson, Logan behind Mo. Not to mention Soriano’s 14 million next year would put the Yanks way over the 189 threshold

  82. randy l. January 15th, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    jerface and shame-

    cashman would say that the yankees are sabermetrically inclined and adept at using statistical analysis.

    being a cutting edge business that is in tune with the times is obviously more than just using statistical analysis.

    the yankees feel like a very old organization to me that isn’t really the class of the baseball the way they used to be.

    hal is young in years , but really very old fashioned and not really with it.

    other owners are eating his lunch.

  83. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    Do we actually have as many early round picks as the Rays in the next draft ?

    We’re makin’ progress.

    :)

  84. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    The Yankees new plan is to amass draft picks, see who will agree to sign on the cheap and draft them. It better work as we may have a couple more extra ones next year too.

    It was ability to sign that casued the Yankees to draft Culver and Bichette. Justy like they are gun shy on international players after Igawa, they are now deathly afraid they won’t sign their picks after Cole.

  85. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    I wish this year’s wasn’t such a shallow talent pool…

  86. blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    “I would truly be happy if I knew Cashman thought as much of these possibilities as you and others do. And your thoughts are often good ones.”

    Cashman is probably either playin Oregon trail on the office PC…..or fetching Hals espresso drink from Starbucks

  87. G. Love January 15th, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Donny,

    They’re buying into the new “draft picks are worth more than established players” dogma that I don’t subscribe too. I think they are lottery tickets in my opinion. I also think our front office has passed up some sure things to try to be smarter than the competition and that’s why we’re bereft of major league ready prospects.

    The picks are a nice perk of the process, but unless they pan out they are highly suspect.

    I’d still rather have Josh Hamilton and surrender our pick than not have him.

    And don’t anyone give me losing Trout for Tex. Almost the entire league passed on Trout. He’s the needle in the haystack.

  88. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    randy – I think what they need is to, as blake would say, pick a lane.

    They just cannot commit to the type of organization they want to be right now and it could hurt them long term. I could imagine them drafting a certain way based on this middle of the road approach, and it just keeps having that butterfly effect on the club.

  89. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    With the new draft system in place, which is horrible btw, acquiring extra draft picks is a key to success for teams picking at the lower end where their bonus pools will be shallow. Ideally the Yankees would both be acquiring draft picks AND signing FAs AND making shrewd trades. Doing one is not automatically better than the other and showing some excitement over it doesnt really have implications about the other 2 things.

  90. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    Donny,

    We have nothing else to be happy about. We can’t add players to the MLB team so we are happy about an 18 year old player in the future who may never make it out of short season ball.

    The times have changed and not for the better. Does anyone really feel they will add any substantial player by free agency or trade in the next couple of years? If so, why?

    I clearly do not.

  91. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    I’d still rather have Josh Hamilton and surrender our pick than not have him.

    Nobody would disagree with this. But we aren’t discussing Hamilton, we are discussing Soriano and in this case it’s better to have the draft pick and the absence of a huge contract.

  92. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    “Prospects are suspects”.

    ;)

  93. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    “I would truly be happy if I knew Cashman thought as much of these possibilities as you and others do. And your thoughts are often good ones.”

    Cashman is probably either playin Oregon trail on the office PC…..or fetching Hals espresso drink from Starbucks

    —————-

    I always died of dysentery.

  94. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Jerkface,

    You are not recommending a balanced approach?

    The preferred method of team building is getting draft picks and signing old cheap players. That way all players in the system are either under 23 or over 36. Who needs those costly productive years?

  95. blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Shame has a broken leg, shame has a fever, shame has dysentery, shame has died

  96. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Shame-

    That’s because you didn’t have me to show you the way.

    ;)

  97. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    Shame you really shouldn’t have tried to ford that river

  98. randy l. January 15th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    shame-

    i think there are other baseball owners who are like trying.

    all other things equal, “trying” is a really important business quality.

    hal needs a testosterone shot or something to get him going.

  99. JoeyVegas January 15th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    You can’t trade Cano unless you get comparable production back in return. At the beginning of the offseason and then sign Hamilton? – maybe. Now, no way. Next offseason, then sign Ellsbury or Nelson Cruz? Maybe. This team still has to win. Espinoza, Rendon and Morse don’t replace that production. When you have a 220M payroll, you must be chartered to win now. 189M too.

  100. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 15th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    Ideally the Yankees would both be acquiring draft picks AND signing FAs

    _______________________________

    The new rules appear to have those two in conflict with each other, at least for signing the elite FAs who receive qualifying offers. For if you sign a free agent worth signing, most will have a qualifying offer declined attached, you are losing a draft rather than acquiring it.

  101. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    Patrick,

    The Yankees clearly disagreed with Hamilton vs. giving up the draft pick. They made no offers.

    What is the problem with making an offer and getting turned down? The Yankees seem to proudly say when a player signs elsewhere that they made no offer. I would be happier if they made an offer even if it is topped. Never make an offer and never sign a player.

  102. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    The new rules appear to have those two in conflict with each other, at least for signing the elite FAs who receive qualifying offers. For if you sign a free agent worth signing, most will have a qualifying offer declined attached, you are losing a draft rather than acquiring it.

    Not all FAs have the QO attached, poor teams may not be able to make the riskier QO that the Yankees can with the new system. They should be leveraging that to acquire picks from departing guys they do not want to keep.

  103. blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    @JackCurryYES: Before Youkilis signed with the Yankees, Sabathia and Pettitte contacted him to recruit him. As expected, Cashman and Girardi also called.

  104. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Point is, instead of holding a ticker-tape parade for draft picks, you ALL should be ragging Hal for what Has and Is happening on his watch. The situation will not improve till Hal either changes course, or sells. Either way, he has gotta be “motivated” to do such. Fans settling on half-a-loaf will not improve the current status of the Yankees.

  105. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    @JackCurryYES

    Before Youkilis signed with the Yankees, Sabathia and Pettitte contacted him to recruit him. As expected, Cashman and Girardi also called.

    ——————

    Yes I’m sure paying him double what anyone else was offering had nothing to do with getting him in pinstripes…

  106. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Point is, instead of holding a ticker-tape parade for draft picks, you ALL should be ragging Hal for what Has and Is happening on his watch.

    What blog are you reading, Bro?

  107. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Randy,

    I agree trying would be nice. What a novel concept.

    A shot of testosterone or a swift kick in the pants is definately needed.

  108. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    blake, MTU and Patrick (the real one) – You are all correct lol.

    Not often that happens on the blog.

    I’m glad we have a lot of Oregon Trail fans in here… this season is going to feel like one big mind f*ck (which was exactly what Oregon Trail was for 2nd graders).

  109. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    The real problem with dealing Cano is the PR hit and nothing more… if they can’t resign him and they know it, or can’t resign him and field a competitive team, the only realistic way to deal with it is to move him.

  110. blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    I really don’t understand how Donny doesn’t understand that more draft picks is better than less draft picks

  111. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    @Buster_ESPN

    Yankees were fired up, by the way, to get formal, final word that they’ll be getting the comp pick for Soriano, along with Swisher comp pick

  112. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    Donny,

    I don’t believe Hal would read my posts and think I wasn’t ragging on him. I have been doing it since last off season when the handwriting was on the wall.

    However, Hal doesn’t seem to care what the fans think. He is shocked of course at any anger. He only let three starters and the closer leave without replacing any of them. Don’t doubt next year will be much worse.

  113. DONNYBROOK January 15th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    When you got dummies handling the picks, your Not correcting or improving the situation. All your doing is ultimately pouring even more $$$ in Hal and Companies pockets.

  114. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Yeah, Buster, happy days in Yankeeland.

  115. Jerkface January 15th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    Hal has a genius new money making scheme: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BArZ9vNCQAEz-Cu.jpg

  116. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    @michaelianblack

    Like most of America, really torn between wanting to see Lance confess and never wanting to watch OWN.

  117. chicken little January 15th, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    @Buster_ESPN

    Yankees were fired up, by the way, to get formal, final word that they’ll be getting the comp pick for Soriano, along with Swisher comp pick
    ——————————————————–

    George would be so proud. Passing up on signing free agents just to get/avoid losing draft picks.

  118. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    randy – See my Onely post. This is what gets the FO ‘fired up’ so lets hope they put it to use.

  119. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Cashman must have hit hit head again. He thinks he’s Andrew Freidman.

    And the Yankees are the Rays.

    :)

  120. blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Jerkface says:
    January 15, 2013 at 3:45 pm
    Hal has a genius new money making scheme: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BArZ9vNCQAEz-Cu.jpg

    Lol

  121. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    edit: hit his. duh.

  122. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    Shame,

    You are right the real reason Cano isn’t traded is PR. They want to appear to be competing for the income while not really doing so. Next year they will tell us Cano’s price was simply too high. But, we got a draft pick. That will fire them up. Brilliant management converting a star into a 35th draft pick.

  123. blake January 15th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    With these draft picks lets try to draft more Nick Castellanos and Mike Olts and less Cito Culvers

  124. Chip January 15th, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    The moral of the story is, as always, don’t question Scott Boras. The guy knows what he’s doing.

  125. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    The Yankees clearly disagreed with Hamilton vs. giving up the draft pick. They made no offers.

    What is the problem with making an offer and getting turned down? The Yankees seem to proudly say when a player signs elsewhere that they made no offer. I would be happier if they made an offer even if it is topped. Never make an offer and never sign a player.

    No that’s incorrect. They didn’t sign Hamilton because of the money (and his expected decline), not because they wanted to keep a draft pick.

  126. Chip January 15th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Oh, and if he can get a team to pony up 2 and $28 for Soriano – you better believe he’s going to find that 8 to 10 year deal for Cano next winter.

  127. PacoDooley January 15th, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:04 pm
    Also, JF, not sure if you caught the Yankee hotstove on YES last night but the poll question was:

    ‘Do you believe in sabermetrics?’

    Seriously.

    Like, ‘do you believe in aliens’ or something.
    —————————–

    Insane – could you imagine a show on CNN about economics and someone asking ‘do you believe in mathematics?’ Analysis of value and probability is mathematics, not subjective hocus pocus that made up ‘scouting’ for so many decades. If you are not using some form of sabermetrics in your analysis you are being foolish.

    The election analysis by Silver is a good case in point that illustrates the correct application of probability and statistical analysis. While people were guessing how the Hispanic population would vote in county X he was using numbers to forecast outcomes…

  128. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    Chip-

    I never doubted he would.

    Especially with someone like Cano.

    ;)

  129. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:52 pm

    austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    Shame,

    You are right the real reason Cano isn’t traded is PR. They want to appear to be competing for the income while not really doing so. Next year they will tell us Cano’s price was simply too high. But, we got a draft pick. That will fire them up. Brilliant management converting a star into a 35th draft pick.

    ——————————-

    I’m pretty sure this is exactly what’s going to happen.. what might be worse is if they really are trying to make a play for him and find out the Dodgers just offered up $250 million (which I’m really starting to think is more his range with Boras at the helm.. $225-250).

    It’d be so ironic if the one giant deal (and probably bad deal, in terms of value) is the one they might make a run at and still end up holding their…. you know what, I’ll just stop there.

  130. Against All Odds January 15th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    less Cito Culvers

    ———————-

    Such a big over reach

  131. Chip January 15th, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    Mac –

    The reason Cano’s not being traded is the same reason Granderson and Hughes aren’t being traded. It isn’t the Yankee way to trade away star players for a package of young guys and prospects. The closest such trade I can think of the Yankees executing (prior to salary dumping AJ Burnett) was getting Scott Proctor for Robin Ventura and the only reason they did that was because they had picked up Aaron Boone to replace Ventura.

    Whether they should or shouldn’t entertain the notion is irrelevant; it’s not something they will do because it’s not something Cashman has ever done. Even if he wanted to I don’t think Levine (who fancies himself as the new George – always wanting to make a splash) would allow him to do. It goes back to the schizophrenic organization – they want to get under this threshold but they want to do it with established veterans rather than trusting in their system or by making outside the box moves to acquire controllable assets.

  132. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Insane – could you imagine a show on CNN about economics and someone asking ‘do you believe in mathematics?

    —————-

    Sometimes they do, ‘do you believe in global warming?’ so yeah I guess I could imagine that unfortunately….

  133. PacoDooley January 15th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Really glad that the team recouped that pick that they lost when they originally signed Soriano – never saw that coming when his deal started.

    This makes me wonder how many FAs will try to get a “no qualifying offer” clause in their contracts, especially guys trying to rebuild their value on short deals.

  134. Chip January 15th, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    The funny thing about the sabermetrics vs. older statistics battle (in which I fall somewhere in the middle) is that it has led the older baseball writers to make just stupid hall of fame decisions.

    For example, Jack Morris has been on the ballot for years, but the groundswell of support he gets from the “old school” guys is only happening now because they are using him as the posterboy to go against sabermetrics.

    And then you have people like Ken Davidoff who say “I’m going to base my entire ballot on WAR” but don’t really understand how WAR works and thus leave Mike Piazza off their ballot.

  135. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    Chip – Good points.

  136. Tyler January 15th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    Chip January 15th, 2013 at 3:50 pm
    Oh, and if he can get a team to pony up 2 and $28 for Soriano – you better believe he’s going to find that 8 to 10 year deal for Cano next winter.
    ————————————————————-

    It just screams Dodgers.

  137. blake January 15th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    The thing is with picks like Culver and Dante….is that when you draft guys that aren’t on anybody’s top 100 in the first round then you had better be right about them or your gonna be criticized for it…..

  138. Tyler January 15th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    MTU January 15th, 2013 at 3:47 pm
    Cashman must have hit hit head again. He thinks he’s Andrew Freidman.

    And the Yankees are the Rays.
    ———————————————————–

    I don’t think Cashman thinks he is Freidman or the Rays but he better become more like the Rays and their system if they want to be in competitive in the future.

  139. blake January 15th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    To Davidoffs credit he admitted he was wrong and will change his vote next year

  140. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    Sometimes they do, ‘do you believe in global warming?’ so yeah I guess I could imagine that unfortunately….

    That’s not the same. Global warming is a conclusion based on science and mathematics. Sabermetrics is is not a conclusion it’s a methodology. A question like, “Do you agree that sabermetrics is a good method of evaluating baseball players?” would be a bit more acceptable. But asking “Do you believe in sabermetrics?” is essentially asking “Do you believe in math?” .. pure absurdity

  141. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    Chip

    They traded Sheffield for prospects…and got nothing. Cashman said he has six offers. Obviously, we don’t know what he turned down.

  142. MTU January 15th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    Tyler-

    I don’t know about that.

    But you’re right. If the Yankees want to become a great developmental team they need to copy teams who do it well like the Rays.

  143. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    Tyler January 15th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    Chip January 15th, 2013 at 3:50 pm
    Oh, and if he can get a team to pony up 2 and $28 for Soriano – you better believe he’s going to find that 8 to 10 year deal for Cano next winter.
    ————————————————————-

    It just screams Dodgers.

    ——————

    A lot of teams are flush with cash now… Tigers, Rangers, Dodgers (I’d guess the second tear of teams would be: Angels, Nats, Phillies) could all be key players. The only thing that I think limits him with the NL clubs is they really need to believe his D can carry for the length of the contract. Even that might be a stretch, because a Cano with a more limited range is still very, very good. I have no doubt he could play any of the infield positions, either, if they did decide to shift him at some point.

    …..I’m really just trying to think of reasons why the Dodgers shouldn’t sign him.

  144. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    “Do you believe in sabermetrics?” is essentially asking “Do you believe in math?” .. pure absurdity

    ——————

    Lol, very true.

  145. Shame Spencer January 15th, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Chad’s random thoughts are this way and I’m not on the list for some reason.. :arrow:

  146. Patrick January 15th, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    They traded Sheffield for prospects…and got nothing. Cashman said he has six offers. Obviously, we don’t know what he turned down.

    At the time it looked like a pretty good trade for the Yankees. Prospects will bust but I can’t fault Cash for doing that trade

  147. blake January 15th, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    @jonmorosi: #Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski on Rafael Soriano: “We did not seriously pursue him, and (this news) does not change our bullpen situation.”

  148. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    I now don’t believe Boras will have to settle for a pillow deal for his clients. Soriano would have seemed, as a reliever the hardest to get a deal for.

    Boras is very good. but, I’m sure Cashman can talk him into a team friendly deal, right? Yep, eight years and $220M he can be ours.

    Of course, the Yankees have no clue what it would take to sign him since they won’t talk. How is it sensical not to do anything except wait for him to be a free agent?

    I hope Joseph and/or Adams have good years.

  149. Rich in NJ January 15th, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    “@jonmorosi: #Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski on Rafael Soriano: “We did not seriously pursue him, and (this news) does not change our bullpen situation.””

    But did their owner give Boras leverage?

  150. austinmac January 15th, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    Blake,

    Culver and Bichette were quick signs because the Yankees knew what they would take. It was about signing the first round pick economically more than actually believing there were no better players.

    The entire team is risk averse and financially motivated in everything they do.

  151. disco stu January 15th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    As I have posted before, perhaps the best thing that could happen to the Yankees long term is to have a lousy 2013 and be out of it by July (like Boston and Philly were last year).

    Then they can move many of the disposable contracts due to come off the books at the end of the year (Cano, Grandy, Andy, Kuroda, Youkilis, Hughes, etc.) and get back young, affordable MLB talent and/or high level prospects.

    This scenario better ensures a wider pool of talent with which to either build from within or use as trade pieces for the future … and allows them to get under the $189 million dollar threshold for 2014 with greater ease.

    The worst thing that can happen (and it is a distinct possibility) is that they stay on the fringe of contending for a WC all year and fall short at the end of getting to the PS. If this happens they will have wasted any opportunity to get back pieces to build on by trading a Cano or a Kuroda because they will have needed to stay in the race all year long and will most likely have nothing but more draft picks to show for their efforts.

    Its a slippery slope because either scenario will be tough to take by us fans … we want them to win, so you keep believing they have a team that will win big … but we are also not stupid and realize that this “nickel and dime” approach of trying to get “one more year” out of an aging vet whose best days are behind instead building for the future by signing a Josh Hamilton or trading for a Justin Upton is going to catch up to them soon and what will follow could be really ugly.


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