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Decisions and alternatives will define the Yankees winter

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 16, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The best move is the one you don’t make. We’ve all heard that theory, and we’ve often heard it as wishful thinking with the benefit of hindsight. It’s easy to look back at the 2007 Alex Rodriguez signing, or the 2008 A.J. Burnett signing, or last year’s Jesus Montero trade and say that the Yankees would have been better off had they not made those moves. It’s harder to definitively say those things about a decision that hasn’t played itself out just yet.

This morning, Barry used the “one you don’t make” theory to evaluate five non-moves from this winter. In his opinion, the Yankees were much better off not signing those free agents, and in each case, he’s absolutely right. Maybe. Or maybe no.

Not committing to one option means committing to another. The success or failure of the non-moves Barry selected — plus one more of my own choosing – will depend on the success or failure of the alternatives.

JOSH HAMILTON
The decision: Hamilton is absolutely elite, but only when he’s on the field. Five years, $125 million for a guy with health issues might be another Alex Rodriguez situation waiting to happen. Signing him would have been risky even without the upcoming financial restrictions. 
The alternative: I suppose it’s a three-headed alternative because signing Hamilton almost certainly would have required a series of dominoes to fall. Without Hamilton, the Yankees signed Ichiro Suzuki, kept Curtis Granderson and gave themselves at least an outside chance of re-signing Robinson Cano next winter.
The judgment: If Hamilton breaks down in the middle of his current contract, everything else will be moot. An injured Hamilton will make it obvious that the Yankees did the right thing in staying away. If Hamilton stays healthy and productive, then the decision to let him go will hinge entirely on how well the Yankees are able to build a roster within their financial limits. They’re still going to spend a lot of money, and if not on Hamilton, then who?

RUSSELL MARTIN / A.J. PIERZYNSKI
The decision: At two years, $17 million, Martin priced himself out of the Yankees plans. Pierzynski never got much attention from the Yankees, who seemed uncertain about his defense and unwilling to commit much money at the catching position.
The alternative: Primarily it’s one of the defensive options — Chris Stewart, Francisco Cervelli, maybe Austin Romine — who’s going to fill the position, but it’s also worth noting that the Yankees have a budget every year, not only in 2014. Rather than spending money behind the plate, the Yankees put money into re-signing two starting pitchers, re-signing a right fielder and finding a one-year replacement for Alex Rodriguez.
The judgment: I would contend that, if Romine takes control of the position and plays reasonably well — not necessarily great, but at least capable — then it was the right decision to stay away from the veterans. At some point, the Yankees have to start trusting younger players, and this would be a good opportunity to do so. But if the Yankees get nothing out of the catching position this year, and Romine isn’t up to the job for the next two years or so, then it will be hard to defend. 

RAFAEL SORIANO
The decision: First Soriano opted out, then he turned down a qualifying offer. When that was done, the Yankees were ready to move on.
The alternative: The Yankees believed all along that Mariano Rivera was going to come back. They also knew that Dave Robertson, Joba Chamberlain and David Aardsma were already under contract. Soriano was outstanding last season, but this was about putting payroll toward positions of legitimate need.
The judgment: For the most part, people seem to be on board with the decision to let Soriano walk. In some way, the Yankees offered him a contract twice before he decided to move on. The default here seems to be that letting Soriano go was the right call, but that opinion could change quickly if Rivera struggles or gets hurt again, or if the bridge to Rivera falls apart. 

NICK SWISHER
The decision: Swisher takes walks and hits for power, which means — despite his well documented postseason struggles – he fits the Yankees mold. Letting him walk away was all about payroll priorities and choosing to spend money elsewhere.
The alternative: We don’t exactly have the full picture just yet. We know Ichiro is going to get the bulk of the right field playing time, but the Yankees are still shopping for a right-handed hitter to help out in the corners and play regularly against left-handers. And, of course, letting Swisher walk away has saved some payroll for 2014 and beyond. We also don’t know yet how that money will be spent.
The judgment: Kind of a smaller version of Hamilton. As we’ve already seen this offseason, replacing Swisher’s production — steady switch-hitter who’s been productive — isn’t easy to do. Swisher might be a notch below elite, but he’s still awfully good. He he thrives in Cleveland and the Yankees have trouble putting together a winning roster, then the decision to let Swisher go — and the financial reasons for doing so — will be seen as a massive mistake.

DAN HAREN
The decision: I’m including Haren — and, by extension, any other risk/reward starting pitcher who might have added some rotation depth — because starting pitching was the Yankees clear priority this winter, and the Yankees chose to invest in a 38 year old and a 40 year old. The decision to not sign Haren or Scott Baker or Joe Blanton or Brandon McCarthy (not to mention guys like Zach Greinke, Anibal Sanchez and Edwin Jackson) was as significant as any other non-move this winter.
The alternative: The Yankees stuck with what they knew and left their options open for the future. By re-signing Hiroki Kuroda and Andy Pettitte, the Yankees are banking on a pair of veterans being able to stay healthy and productive well past their prime. There’s still a chance the Yankees could find someone else to compete for the back of the rotation, but for now the Yankees seem content to go with the same guys they leaned on last year and hope other alternatives emerge for 2014 and beyond.
The judgment: The Yankees chose to make one-year deals, and for the most part, this decision will be judged strictly on the performance of Kuroda and Pettitte. But it’s worth considering whether it might have made sense to commit to someone beyond the 2013 season. As it is, Kuroda, Pettitte and Phil Hughes are each heading for free agency after this season, leaving the Yankees with significant long-term questions in their rotation.

Associated Press photos

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215 Responses to “Decisions and alternatives will define the Yankees winter”

  1. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    “Without Hamilton, the Yankees signed Ichiro Suzuki, kept Curtis Granderson and gave themselves at least an outside chance of re-signing Robinson Cano next winter.”

    so now we have an “outside shot” of keeping Cano…..awesome

  2. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    It’s time for some real baseball.

    ;)

  3. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    How is Taijuan Walker mlb ready? He was in AA, and may go back there.

  4. chicken little January 16th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    The Yanks’ shot at keeping Cano hinges on whether Hal is willing to win a bidding war and whether Hal is willing to sign a player to a 7-10 year contract. Whatever he decides, he should decide now because getting only a draft pick for Cano will be ridiculously silly.

  5. Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Haren was a guy I thought they should have tried to sign.

  6. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    I woulda passed on Haren. Lotta miles on that arm, and that’s beginning to show.

  7. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    “At some point, the Yankees have to start trusting younger players, and this would be a good opportunity to do so.”

    Shouldn’t that point be after a full, healthy, productive mL season by that young player, let alone some part-time work at the ML?

    This could turn out like the Hughes, IPK, Joba pretend to trust young players scam. Oh wait, it didn’t work out and we gave it a whole month, so let’s try something else.

  8. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    I laugh at envisioning Hal inna bidding war. Hal atta poker table would be a laugh riot.

  9. chicken little January 16th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    “At some point, the Yankees have to start trusting younger players, and this would be a good opportunity to do so.”

    —————————————–

    Not when A.J. costs $7 million for one year and can DH (or be traded) if Romine produces at the big league level and not when Romine missed virtually the entire season with a back injury. Catcher is a key position. We aren’t talking about entrusting the catching to Jorge Posada after he apprenticed under Joe Girardi for a couple of years.

  10. Mike Ri January 16th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    AJP was someone the Yanks should have signed . 1 year 7 million was a steal….

  11. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:51 am

    “Again, if they don’t help then players wouldn’t do them.”

    nobody is saying they don’t help….that’s an argument made of straw…..the point is that quitting taking PEDs doesn’t mean you’ll morph into a scrub the year after you won a batting title….especially when your 27 years old.
    —————–

    How is it a straw argument – some of you are acting as if Steroids have no greater impact on his playing ability than tic tacs so my question is; if that’s the case then why would players take steroids?

  12. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    “How is Taijuan Walker mlb ready? He was in AA, and may go back there.”

    he’s not….high upside but he had a 4+ era in AA last year and probably has a higher bust risk than Hultzen

  13. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    “How is it a straw argument – some of you are acting as if Steroids have no greater impact on his playing ability than tic tacs so my question is; if that’s the case then why would players take steroids?”

    no…they have an effect….but nobody really has ever quantified it….it’s different with everybody. Sure didn’t effect Braun last year if he in fact took them and then quit

  14. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    $125 million for a guy with health issues might be another Alex Rodriguez situation waiting to happen.
    ——–
    how is Hamilton come remotely close to Arod situation, the contract length is twice as short, the money is not even remotely close…

  15. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Melky has always had a lot of potential at the plate and has had some really nice moments on the Yanks. Testosterone helps in muscle recuperation which can enhance offseason workout programs. I think Melky’s huge spike in results was a result of his offseason preparation which probably resulted because he had absolutely no choice after being dropped by Atlanta. He’s always had the talent but getting in shape did wonders for him (like it does most). Testosterone definitely could have played a role in that too.
    ///

    Tyler, I think this is fair. And I agree with your later point that he is likely a .300 plus hitter in general.

    We’ve got the pucks back, by the way :D

  16. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Chad, you sure you don’t work for the Yankees, no offense, that is one tilted post I just read.

  17. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    The problem with the effect of steroids is that you cannot do any kind of effective comparison test. You cannot test identical players in identical situations, one on steroids, one not. At best you’re trying to work off of past years, which has different situations, different opponents, the subject does not have the same experience & training.

  18. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Not committing to one option means committing to another.
    ———
    Huh? come again?

  19. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Whatever Melky is, a 4th OF doesn’t seem to be it, and it was pretty weak of Cashman to say that.

  20. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Huh? come again?

    It means that not doing something equals choosing to do something else. Which is true.

  21. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    ‘Whatever Melky is, a 4th OF doesn’t seem to be it, and it was pretty weak of Cashman to say that.”

    seemed like a petty shot at Melky to me

  22. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Rich,

    What else would we expect? Didn’t he call Kennedy an NL pitcher when he was under consideration for the Cy Young? This is who he is, as per Posada’s observation.

  23. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    The PED argument has worn thin… given the ‘evidence’ I feel pretty comfortable in believing Robinson Cano juices. He was a non-prospect who turned into one of the best players in the game and trained with Arod and Melky for a couple of off seasons. I don’t care anymore about PEDs. I just don’t. This debate regarding Melky is misplaced when you’re trying to debate his PED usage.

    39 year old OFer – $7 million AAV
    27 year old OFer – $8 million AAV

    That’s really all there is to the discussion. It’s the crux of the debate: cost vs. production.

    Me? I’d have a 39 year old OFer signed for $7 million AND a 27 year old OFer signed for $8 million :twisted:

  24. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    that smug part of Cashman’s personality that’s surfaced the last couple of years I’m not real fond of…..I guess that it doesn’t matter what his personality is if he does his job well but it annoys me…..and it annoys me more when he screws up.

  25. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    I’ve asked this question multiple times and nobody seems willing to tackle it……

    did Ryan Braun 1) not take steroids 2) take steroids and not need them 3) or is he still taking steroids ?

    because those are the only 3 choices really….and he was the same player in 2012 as he was in 2011.

  26. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    It means that not doing something equals choosing to do something else. Which is true.
    ——-
    It could also mean they have little idea whom to commit to.

  27. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    His treatment of people and his judgment have not been particularly inspiring. He didn’t treat Bernie with much grace, as I recall, and that was what – 2008? I know Rivera did not care for that at all.

  28. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    The assumption with Braun is that he took them over a period of time, and Then got caught. Coulda been a one-and-done, after getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I agree with Chip. These guys wouldn’t put something into their body, unless they were SURE of the improved performance as a result. There are sercrets that players exchange amongst themselves, that we of the general public will Never know. These guys gotta Code that would make the mafia blush.

  29. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    so did Braun stop taking them? why was he just as good without them?

  30. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
    The PED argument has worn thin… given the ‘evidence’ I feel pretty comfortable in believing Robinson Cano juices. He was a non-prospect who turned into one of the best players in the game and trained with Arod and Melky for a couple of off seasons.
    ——————————————————————————–

    He might have taken them… nothing in sports concerning PEDs surprises me anymore.

    However, the question is whether you believe that taking testosterone can turn you into one of the best players in the game.

  31. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    “His treatment of people and his judgment have not been particularly inspiring. He didn’t treat Bernie with much grace, as I recall, and that was what – 2008? I know Rivera did not care for that at all.”

    You would think that his personal feelings would have humbled him. Instead, he seems embittered.

  32. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    The PED argument has worn thin… given the ‘evidence’ I feel pretty comfortable in believing Robinson Cano juices. He was a non-prospect who turned into one of the best players in the game and trained with Arod and Melky for a couple of off seasons.
    ///

    He always had that bat, that’s why they liked him to begin with. The fact that they tried to trade him like THREE TIMES should have tipped us all off on how cavalier they are about hit tool guys. They’ve since dealt two guys like that. There is just something wrong, fundamentally wrong, with their idea of winning baseball, IMO.

  33. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    JAP-

    We do have hockey back! I was far from thrilled at the absurdity of the lockout negotiations but I’m just happy that the sports is back. If anything, it saved me money from buying tickets, merchandise, etc. A little bit of unfamiliar territory however with so many ‘experts’ picking my Blues to go as far as winning the Cup. Not used to that, haha.

  34. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    he does embittered Rich, baseball aside, Cashman acts as if he is going thru a mid life crisis.

  35. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    “How is Taijuan Walker mlb ready? He was in AA, and may go back there.”

    he’s not….high upside but he had a 4+ era in AA last year and probably has a higher bust risk than Hultzen.
    ___
    Right, so much for Arizona necessarily wanting mlb-ready pitchers. Also people complain about our pitching prospects and command/control. I’ll just point out that in his rise to AAA, Hultzen had a walk rate of 7.95 BB/9.

  36. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:42 pm
    so did Braun stop taking them? why was he just as good without them?
    ——————————————————————-

    I think he took them. And I think he’s probably off of them now (at least if he had a brain… probably doesn’t want that PR mess again). I also think he’s just as good without them. I really think that PEDs help more off the field with workouts and recovery than purely baseball activities. Was it really the Balco juice that helped Bonds hit the only pitch he saw for a strike all game out of the park or was it that he was a supremely talented player at peak physical condition?

  37. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Hockey’s arriving just in time, considering that we still have @26 days until pitchers and would-be catchers report, and no NY playoff football to look forward to. So, hockey will fill the void nicely…

  38. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Cashman at one time wielded a lotta power in the Yankee front office. You’d be bitter too, if you had been neutered.

  39. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    “His treatment of people and his judgment have not been particularly inspiring. He didn’t treat Bernie with much grace, as I recall, and that was what – 2008? I know Rivera did not care for that at all.”

    You would think that his personal feelings would have humbled him. Instead, he seems embittered.
    ///

    In my former life, I had been around pro athletes, GMs and coaches a good deal. There is that person out there who has a reflexive resentment of talent – and that probably extends to other kinds of talent in other areas of life, too – like the guy who comes in and sets his own schedule because he has some particular skillset that is unusual, etc. I don’t know if this is what Cashman’s deal is, but Madden did quote some source who said Hal “hates the players.” Could Cashman have this affinity, too? Whatever his issue is, he has some weird passive-aggressive thing going on, and yes, a bitterness he either can’t, or doesn’t care to, mask.

  40. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    At the least, do no harm, Cash.

  41. G. Love January 16th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    I don’t want to trample on the pinch hitter because I think his arguments have merit in some cases.

    But you can play “the best deals are the one’s you do make” just as easily as you can play “the best deals are the one’s you don’t”.

    The whole idea behind pursuing Hamilton was the Yankees need a middle of the order hitter with Arod kaput & Tex a declining mess. They also needed one because Granderson isn’t one, despite the numbers, and the team only had Granderson for more one year without resigning him to a potential deal that would make little sense for a guy who’s batting average plummeted to Dave Kingman territory.

    If you ask any Yankee fan to be honest, who would they rather have batting 3-4 in the order; Cano-Hamilton or Cano-Granderson, I’d bet 9 out 10 would say Cano-Hamilton and the only one’s choosing Granderson would be saying so because he’s such a nice guy or they fear/hate Hamilton because of his substance abuse issues.

    On the moves we didn’t make, I zero in on 3 players. Cespedes, Darvish & Aroldis Chapman. All 3 were the guys we usually signed in the past. Top Intl. free agents who only cost money. Instead, we barely checked in on these guys. You add those three to the mix and we’re not chasing a journeyman RH hitting OF and our rotation behind CC is young & dynmaic. It would’ve enabled the team to trade prospects for other needs or give them more time to develop.

    And I agree with Chad that not pursuing Haren could be a mistake. I don’t think for one second that Hughes will resign with the Yankees. Bolstering the rotation this season in order to have depth next season seems only unreasonable to the Yankee front office who can only plan a season at a time or temporarily patch one hole at a time.

    As for our catching situation, I’d be completely on board with Romine if he had a healthy successful minor league season. If he played a full season and hit .260 with 10 HR’s, I’d be elated to move on from Martin to Romine. The fact that the kid barely played last year and didn’t do much with the bat when he did is a huge cause for concern.

    AJ Pierzynski would’ve been a good stopgap to allow Romine more time and give us some offense from the position.

    If our catcher’s are hitting .220 with no power and the team is struggling offensively that position will become a focal point more than it already is. Playing with essentially an NL lineup with a catcher who hits like a pitcher isn’t advised in the AL.

  42. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    Also people complain about our pitching prospects and command/control. I’ll just point out that in his rise to AAA, Hultzen had a walk rate of 7.95 BB/9
    ————————————————————————

    Hultzen had an insane K/BB ratio in college. Something like 395:75. His command should be fine. I’d gladly take him. He was lights out and polished at UVA.

  43. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
    Hockey’s arriving just in time, considering that we still have @26 days until pitchers and would-be catchers report, and no NY playoff football to look forward to. So, hockey will fill the void nicely
    ———————————————————

    I really think it’s going to be a fantastic season…shorter usually means more exciting. The playoffs are already the best tournament in North American sports and teams are going to be even fresher going into them.

  44. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    “Whatever his issue is, he has some weird passive-aggressive thing going on, and yes, a bitterness he either can’t, or doesn’t care to, mask.”

    “he does embittered Rich, baseball aside, Cashman acts as if he is going thru a mid life crisis.”

    If being handed the keys to a franchise on a glide path to greatness, and making a few million a year doing it, doesn’t buy happiness and fulfillment, what does?

  45. bruceb January 16th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    “I can’t help feeling cheats win on the way up and the way down.”

    A quote from retiring Olympic and world champion cyclist Nicole Cooke in the wake of the Lance Armstrong interview by Oprah.

    Cheating undoubtedly cost Melky money in the short-term, but this is surely the exception rather than the rule in baseball.

  46. ajr91205 January 16th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    There really are way too many things that could happen with any of these players. I hope that Pettite and Rivera stay healthy, which would have a big impact for the season and future seasons. In my opinion, it was the right decision to let Swisher and Soriano go, even if they go on to have really good seasons. The Yankees are going to have a lot of work to do in the long term. They have the second oldest average players only to the Dodgers, 28.2 years. If they are looking to the future and hoping to cut down on their payroll, they need to start investing in a bunch of younger guys like Romine.

  47. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    JAP-

    We do have hockey back! I was far from thrilled at the absurdity of the lockout negotiations but I’m just happy that the sports is back. If anything, it saved me money from buying tickets, merchandise, etc. A little bit of unfamiliar territory however with so many ‘experts’ picking my Blues to go as far as winning the Cup. Not used to that, haha.
    ///

    Be interesting to see what kind of shape guys are in across the league, and whether teams will integrate young players they might have had they had a full season to deal with.

  48. nyyankeefanforever January 16th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Thanks for taking it easy on me in your follow-up, Chad. I’m eternally grateful.

    Barry :)

  49. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Tyler, I would gladly take him too, and I know he is adjusting to a bump up. I just think it is funny the way people assume BB/9 ratios are the be-all, end all without qualifiers, which was actually my point. And his K rates in AAA were actually @11/9 I believe (all of this in a sss).

  50. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    “I think he took them. And I think he’s probably off of them now (at least if he had a brain… probably doesn’t want that PR mess again). I also think he’s just as good without them”

    I think PEDs help older players much more than they do prime aged players…..not saying they don’t help guys in their 20′s….but I think those guys that have elite talent levels can do it with or without. It’s the guys in their later stages of their careers where PEDS helped them keep the bat speed to go along with their knowledge and experience that it really made a big difference IMO

  51. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    As I continuously say, all you need issa catcher that can situationally hit. Just give me a Bob Boone type hitting catcher that can sac bunt, hit behind\move the runner over, sac fly when need be, etc. Your using Posada as a measuring stick, and that just is Not fair.

  52. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Hultzen was always known for his control/command…..if I could could a prospect of theirs to take it’d be him

  53. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Not sure Rich, I am not him, I think for each individual is different obviously. Maybe he will go on Himalayan Expedition with Dickey next season and immerse himself with a bit of mysticism with the lamas.

  54. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    actually it’d be Zunino…but a pitcher I’d take Hultzen

  55. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    Tyler, I just hope that the short training camps don’t contribute to more injuries. I am excited too. I can’t wait until Saturday’s Pens-Flyers match. I would have attended but not enough traveling time to get there with my Saturday work sched.

  56. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    Fem-

    No argument there. It just takes some guys a little longer to adjust than others.

  57. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    Cash

    I think he does need some extended time off, and as long as he isn’t replaced with an Eppler type, I would like to see him get that.

  58. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    “Whatever his issue is, he has some weird passive-aggressive thing going on, and yes, a bitterness he either can’t, or doesn’t care to, mask.”

    “he does embittered Rich, baseball aside, Cashman acts as if he is going thru a mid life crisis.”

    If being handed the keys to a franchise on a glide path to greatness, and making a few million a year doing it, doesn’t buy happiness and fulfillment, what does?
    ///

    Cashman has always struck me as a potentially depressed person, regardless of his rank in life and apparent good fortune. He lacks sanguinity and has that sort of collapsed chest.. he’s actually quite pleasant in person, very real, just dealing with fans and such, from the little I’ve encountered. But there seems to be a kind of disconnect about him… not sure how to define it. “Troubled” would be too strong. I don’t know.

  59. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    I don’t mind anyone in the organization being smug.. I’m very smug. But I’m also Great, with a capital G. Cashman can be smug when he puts together a Great ball club year in and year out.

  60. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    G love,
    Kinda nailed it there

  61. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Shame Spencer says:
    January 16, 2013 at 1:02 pm
    I don’t mind anyone in the organization being smug.. I’m very smug. But I’m also Great, with a capital G. Cashman can be smug when he puts together a Great ball club year in and year out.

    When your great and good looking and funny then you can also be smug….it doesn’t work as well with Cashman

  62. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Blake, it doesn’t hurt that Hultzen’s a lefty. I still have a soft spot for Taijuan’s big arm though. Though I haven’t seen either. Wish I could see the Mariners’ prospects live. I’d love to see some interleague play in NY metro. It isn’t the same on milb-tv. Same with Rays prospects; I get to see them in Hudson Valley vs. SI and then not live anymore until they hit the bigs.

  63. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    The NHL will Never amount to much, until they realize casual fans wanna see the fights that erupt. They wanna see the golves drop, and blood driping goons skating over to the penalty box. The stuff about the “beauty of the skating” is True, but that don’t sell tickets on a huge scale. Like it or Not, people watch Indy and Nascar to see the Crashes and the Fights in the pits. Same goes for NHL Hockey.

  64. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Larry stone on the radio now and he said that there were numerous times Montero hit balls on the nose last year and thought they were gone and they were caught and you could just tell it affected him…. Said he thinks moving the fences in will really help him

  65. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    everyone could use a vacation Rich. I agree, I think Cashman needs one, away from immense burden of being a NYY GM.

  66. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    “he’s actually quite pleasant in person, very real, just dealing with fans and such, from the little I’ve encountered.”

    Pruf, always liked this about him as well. But I think he has become so prescriptive, hockey equivalent of a 1-4. And speaking of hockey, I think we don’t integrate any young players because of that same 1-4 mentality of not taking chances. I see that is the case with the Penguins and Despres who will not get a look after camp. They will stick with Engelland/Lovejoy as a duo. I can see it on D in the NHL, but it really doesn’t translate as well to baseball. If the bat is ready, let it hit, no matter the age.

  67. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    @mlbtraderumors: Marlins Sign Austin Kearns http://t.co/IWIN7mKa #mlb

    No Kearnsy reboot

  68. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    On the moves we didn’t make, I zero in on 3 players. Cespedes, Darvish & Aroldis Chapman. All 3 were the guys we usually signed in the past. Top Intl. free agents who only cost money. Instead, we barely checked in on these guys. You add those three to the mix and we’re not chasing a journeyman RH hitting OF and our rotation behind CC is young & dynmaic. It would’ve enabled the team to trade prospects for other needs or give them more time to develop.
    ///

    GLove, in the temporal, the one that really stings is not swiping Cespedes after trading Montero. That is fairly incomprehensible.

  69. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Fem-

    That Pens-Flyers game is going to be a bloodbath lol. I don’t think the shorter camp will result in more injuries but I think things are going to be pretty sloppy at least in the early going.

  70. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    Montero ops 770 outside of safeco, that says a bit to me. There is little doubt in mind that he will be a good hitter if he remains healthy.

  71. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Fem, that’s a good comparison; the Yankee Way (as it is today) and the 1-4.

  72. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Crosby has really had a nice break from contact. That may save his health and lengthen his remarkable career.

  73. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Despres and Morrow don’t look to be givens, Fem, in the short NHL season. That’s too bad.

  74. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    blake, I agree. I saw many of Montero’s AB’s. Also pretty nice article on his catching where they are still expecting he will get a lot of innings. Pruf, what was the link to that article you sent me?

    pruf, I know I often think of that analogy. Cash is a 1-4 proponent, unfortunately. I would love a less prescriptive/”safe” approach. Again, it really isn’t safe to assume vets will do better than youth with bat speed; that is a big assumption.

  75. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    There is one move that G. Love didn’t mention that might have had even more impact: Matt Holliady instead of Teixeira. He has been what Teixeira pretends to be.

  76. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Be interesting to see what kind of shape guys are in across the league

    ————–

    Kovalchuck is in fantastic shape :D

    I’m loving this buy-out mess… I wonder where Gomez and Redden end up.

  77. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Pruf, more like Bortuzzo and Strait as D7 and D8, alas.

  78. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Larry stone on the radio now and he said that there were numerous times Montero hit balls on the nose last year and thought they were gone and they were caught and you could just tell it affected him…. Said he thinks moving the fences in will really help him
    ///

    Yes, I observed this several times last year in here, and the usual pom-pom contingent mocked it as some kind of “excuse” for “my boy” :D

  79. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Shame, so is Malkin, but he too played in the KHL. I am just concerned about the others; you can’t replicate live game situations.

  80. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    “How is it a straw argument – some of you are acting as if Steroids have no greater impact on his playing ability than tic tacs so my question is; if that’s the case then why would players take steroids?”

    no…they have an effect….but nobody really has ever quantified it….it’s different with everybody. Sure didn’t effect Braun last year if he in fact took them and then quit
    —————-

    3 Questions:

    1. How do you know Braun quit and didn’t just find a better masking agent?

    2. If no one has quantified the effect then how can you be so sure that Melky without steroids is better than the player he was in Atlanta?

    3. What makes a presumably PED free Melky a better option (or one with less question marks) than Ichiro? That is the argument you were making – that you would have rather seen the Yankees sign Melky than Ichiro right?

  81. Nick in SF January 16th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    “39 year old OFer – $7 million AAV
    27 year old OFer – $8 million AAV

    That’s really all there is to the discussion. It’s the crux of the debate: cost vs. production.”

    That would be true on XBOX, but its not true here. There probably isn’t much risk that the 39 year old will get caught cheating and be suspended 100 games. Will the 27 year old? Probably not, but do we know? Should a team take that into account? We also don’t know what level of production the 27 year old player will provide, since once again his 2013 won’t be based on his 2012 video game stats.

    “Cheating undoubtedly cost Melky money in the short-term…”

    It was getting caught that cost Melky money in the short-term. None of us knows if cheating in the first place made him or cost him money. Melky probably doesn’t even really know.

    (I would have been psyched if they’d brought Melky back, FTR)

  82. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    ” What makes a presumably PED free Melky a better option (or one with less question marks) than Ichiro? ”

    I will almost always take the guy who is 28 instead of 39.

  83. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    There is one move that G. Love didn’t mention that might have had even more impact: Matt Holliady instead of Teixeira. He has been what Teixeira pretends to be.
    ///

    Rich in NJ,

    This is the one they had to have, especially in light of subsequent actions. Cashman’s willingness to go with Gardner in left though should have predicted other things they did and did not do. What Gardner brings, if anything, would have been greatly enhanced had we had more avg/slug guys, even if he was used as a sub. Cashman does not value hitting for average, and apparently, neither does anyone else who sits around at these meetings weighing in.

  84. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    “There probably isn’t much risk that the 39 year old will get caught cheating and be suspended 100 games. ”

    Just as there is far more risk that the 39 year old won’t produce, especially for two years.

    Melky isn’t super rich. This is his last chance to pocket significant money. Cost-benefit, I think he is a far safer choice.

  85. G. Love January 16th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Rich,

    Spot on. Holliday wanted the Yankees and the pinstripes more than some of these guys who just want the paycheck. That always means more in my book.

    Plus he wouldn’t have cost what Tex did. The funny thing is if we signed him, Swisher would probably be our 1b and probably have been resigned to stay that unless they had decided to move Montero to 1b if they felt he wasn’t going to be a catcher.

    See, we can play the “best moves are the one’s you don’t make” and vice versa all day.

  86. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    JAP

    He keeps pretending that he is merely following Stick’s model of power and patience, but when did Stick opt for that in such low AVG players? I can’t recall it.

  87. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Shame Spencer says:
    January 16, 2013 at 1:02 pm
    I don’t mind anyone in the organization being smug.. I’m very smug. But I’m also Great, with a capital G. Cashman can be smug when he puts together a Great ball club year in and year out.

    When your great and good looking and funny then you can also be smug….it doesn’t work as well with Cashman

    —————————

    I actually think being smug is a part of what made the org work in the past… George was like, “oh your 1B just beat my team? Don’t worry, he’ll look great in pinstripes next year. Have fun being a non-factor for the next 3 seasons!”

    On the flip side, I’m sure the Red Sox owners are smug sons of b*tches – but they wear it so poorly everyone laughs at them! We need to wear it well. You wear it well by being awesome and being aware of it and having people say ‘hey, that guy is smug! But man, they’re also really good.. damn them!’

    You need swagger.

  88. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    The NHL should give fans NHL Center Ice for FREE. But they won’t…

  89. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    “1. How do you know Braun quit and didn’t just find a better masking agent?—–

    2. If no one has quantified the effect then how can you be so sure that Melky without steroids is better than the player he was in Atlanta?

    3. What makes a presumably PED free Melky a better option (or one with less question marks) than Ichiro? That is the argument you were making – that you would have rather seen the Yankees sign Melky than Ichiro right?”

    1. possible but I can’t imagine he’d be that dumb
    2. how can you be sure he wont?
    3. he’s a lot younger and just hit like .350

  90. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    JAP

    He keeps pretending that he is merely following Stick’s model of power and patience, but when did Stick opt for that in such low AVG players? I can’t recall it.
    ///

    He didn’t :D.

  91. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    You wear it well by WINNING. The #1 Priority with this bunch running things Now, is $$$.

  92. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    “Just as there is far more risk that the 39 year old won’t produce, especially for two years.”

    Thinking the same.

  93. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Shame, so is Malkin, but he too played in the KHL. I am just concerned about the others; you can’t replicate live game situations.

    ————–

    I think it will effect the goalies more than anyone else.. but I’m assuming most of these guys kept up with all their conditioning. We’ll see. I can’t wait.

  94. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    I annoyed everyone talking about Matt Holliday 3 years ago…..but I really felt (and still do) that it was a turning point in the organization.

    They had a guy there ready and willing to come to the Bronx and they needed him…and they passed…..

  95. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Rich, in terms of baseball, I think Cashman holds some polar views …

  96. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:20 pm
    The NHL should give fans NHL Center Ice for FREE. But they won’t…
    ————————————————————-

    They can’t do that because of the contract with satellite/cable providers. That’s more DirecTV’s fault than the NHL. It is 40% off what it normally would be pro-rated to 48 games.

  97. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    bruceb January 16th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    “I can’t help feeling cheats win on the way up and the way down.”

    A quote from retiring Olympic and world champion cyclist Nicole Cooke in the wake of the Lance Armstrong interview by Oprah.

    Cheating undoubtedly cost Melky money in the short-term, but this is surely the exception rather than the rule in baseball.
    —————–

    Cheating didn’t cost Melky money – Cheating may have saved Melky’s career.

    If you believe that Melky used PEDs to improve himself following that disaster in Atlanta then this is certainly the case – had Melky flamed out in Kansas City he likely would have been nontendered by the Royals. At that point, that’s two seasons in a row of being non-tendered, he most likely would have had to settle for a minor league contract. PEDs helped him improve himself physically and not only stay in the game but excel in it.

  98. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Hockey on TV continues to be a “Where’s Waldo?” in regard to the Puck. It is difficult to follow the puck on TV when normal play is going on, and when the puck is pinned on the boards, you lose sight of it entirely for lengths of time. You could give away Center Ice for the entire season and people would Not even give it a gander.

  99. randy l. January 16th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    “I annoyed everyone talking about Matt Holliday 3 years ago…..but I really felt (and still do) that it was a turning point in the organization.”

    that was CB’s position also.

  100. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 16th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    that it was a turning point in the organization

    ___________________________________________________

    For me, the turning point was the failed Cliff Lee trade. Yankees get past the Rangers in the ALCS that year, and who knows in the world series.

  101. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    “1. How do you know Braun quit and didn’t just find a better masking agent?—–

    2. If no one has quantified the effect then how can you be so sure that Melky without steroids is better than the player he was in Atlanta?

    3. What makes a presumably PED free Melky a better option (or one with less question marks) than Ichiro? That is the argument you were making – that you would have rather seen the Yankees sign Melky than Ichiro right?”

    1. possible but I can’t imagine he’d be that dumb
    2. how can you be sure he wont?
    3. he’s a lot younger and just hit like .350
    —————

    To your third point – you’re again assuming that a steroid free Melky is going to be just as good as one on performance enhancers…that’s a silly assumption. If Melky was naturally that good then he wouldn’t have taken the steroids in the first place.

  102. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    blake-

    I’m not a huge Holliday fan but they might never be able to get a guy that produces those numbers for that price again on the free agent market. I don’t think he’s a guy who you build a lineup around but he’d be much better than any of the Yanks’ current OFs.

  103. Against All Odds January 16th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    PEDs helped him improve himself physically and not only stay in the game but excel in it.

    ———————-

    I agree completely he was on the brink of being a hey remember that guy that used to play for us.

  104. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    I annoyed everyone talking about Matt Holliday 3 years ago…..but I really felt (and still do) that it was a turning point in the organization.

    ///
    You were right, but you should have been spending your time annoying Cashman :D

  105. Nick in SF January 16th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    Actually there is zero chance that the 39 year old will get caught cheating and be suspended 100 games because it would be his first offense. Oops.

    Rich, you and Shame are right, in my view, that Melky, over the next two years in the Bronx, would probably out-produce Ichiro. Of course we could have had both and then we’d all be happy.

    But the thing about putting up a few numbers on the screen and pretending that nothing else should be taken into account is simplistic.

  106. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    “To your third point – you’re again assuming that a steroid free Melky is going to be just as good as one on performance enhancers…that’s a silly assumption”

    no….I’m assuming he will probably hit better than an almost 40 Ichiro

  107. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    Shame, agree, but conditioning is not live play. Just not the same in terms of the speed, the necessary reaction-timing, physical play/getting hit. Pens are actually playing a free exhibition Black and Gold game tonight. Too bad I am 4 hours away. Also worst move of my life was removing my DirecTV when I moved to the City. Now back in NJ without it, I don’t get any of the regional sports networks, so I am at the mercy of the national package and NHL network. :(

    And I think many would agree about Holliday as a turning point. Joba and that whole all in all out with “Generation Trey” being the other…

  108. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    “If Melky was naturally that good then he wouldn’t have taken the steroids in the first place.”
    __
    Um, what was Alex’s excuse then?

  109. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    I’m not sure what you’re saying, Nick. If we didn’t know who these two players were, I’d assume the 39 year old was the one juicing actually.

    I’d just rather have a younger guy for a 2 year deal than an older guy for the same length if I’m being forced to choose…. otherwise, I’d have both and a really sweet OF.

    I think there’s a chance Ichiro and Melky could produce similar numbers this year.. but I like Melky’s D better. We’ll see how the numbers play out by the end of the year.

    Again, if it were me, I’d have two cheap OF options right now and more options open for trades and things of that sort.

  110. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    “I’m not a huge Holliday fan but they might never be able to get a guy that produces those numbers for that price again on the free agent market. I don’t think he’s a guy who you build a lineup around but he’d be much better than any of the Yanks’ current OFs.”

    .302 .385 .517 .903 OPS+ 146.

    That’s what he’s hit combined since he signed his contract

    to compare…..

    311 .370 .539 .909 OPS+ 141

    that’s what Cano has hit in the same time frame.

  111. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    “To your third point – you’re again assuming that a steroid free Melky is going to be just as good as one on performance enhancers…that’s a silly assumption”

    And you are assuming that a steroid free Melky is going to hit like Sam Fuld (or the switch hitter equivalent)…

  112. Against All Odds January 16th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    I annoyed everyone talking about Matt Holliday 3 years ago…..but I really felt (and still do) that it was a turning point in the organization.

    ————————

    The Holliday money went to Tex. Yes I know Tex was a free agent the yr after Holliday but that’s how they planned it out.

  113. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:28 pm
    blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    I annoyed everyone talking about Matt Holliday 3 years ago…..but I really felt (and still do) that it was a turning point in the organization.

    ///
    You were right, but you should have been spending your time annoying Cashman
    ____
    Blake needs to take a trip to Charleston when Cash is visiting. :)

  114. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    “The Holliday money went to Tex. Yes I know Tex was a free agent the yr after Holliday but that’s how they planned it out.”

    I know….point was that they wouldn’t spend the money anymore….they traded for Granderson instead cause that was cheaper.

  115. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    The Holliday money went to Tex. Yes I know Tex was a free agent the yr after Holliday but that’s how they planned it out.

    Or the Holliday money went to Granderson & Swisher. They could have afforded 3 out of the 4.

  116. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    No one took more crap about Holliday than me.

    In the end he preferred a little extra security to being a Yankee.

    All the talk at the time that his Father dearly wanted him to be a Yankee was just a bunch of crap as far as I am concerned. It counted for nothing in the end.

    The Yankees made him a very competitive offer. He chose to go elsewhere.

    It was right then and there that I learned that 99% of the time Players choose money over anything else.

  117. Hassey January 16th, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    you couldn;t have predicted after the ’09 parade that a mere 3+ years later, Cashman would be considered a frenemy at best on this blog

  118. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    “To your third point – you’re again assuming that a steroid free Melky is going to be just as good as one on performance enhancers…that’s a silly assumption”

    And you are assuming that a steroid free Melky is going to hit like Sam Fuld (or the switch hitter equivalent)…
    ——————————-

    I actually assume a steroid free Melky is going to hit like Melky hit when he was with the Yankees since I don’t believe he started doing steroids until his career was in jeopardy following his stint in Atlanta.

  119. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    But the thing about putting up a few numbers on the screen and pretending that nothing else should be taken into account is simplistic.

    ———————————-

    Well yea, there’s more to it… but age, cost, and production, IMO are the things at the crux of the Melky argument. Not his PED usage.

  120. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    Lets see…..Cashman has listened to me pretty much never.

  121. Nick in SF January 16th, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    “I’m not sure what you’re saying, Nick. If we didn’t know who these two players were, I’d assume the 39 year old was the one juicing actually.”

    I’m saying that you were wrong in the section of your 12:36 p.m. post that I quoted, but I agree with the part that I didn’t quote: I’d like to have both players too.

    And of course we do know who the two players are, which is why you’d be wrong in your assumption if you just looked at those numbers without knowing the rest.

  122. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    “The Yankees made him a very competitive offer. He chose to go elsewhere.”

    I don’t think they did

  123. randy l. January 16th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    “Um, what was Alex’s excuse then?”

    or bonds?

    he was as good as it gets naturally.

  124. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    All the talk at the time that his Father dearly wanted him to be a Yankee was just a bunch of crap as far as I am concerned. It counted for nothing in the end.

    The Yankees made him a very competitive offer. He chose to go elsewhere.

    Did they? As far as I remember they never made any offer

  125. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Blake-

    He hasn’t called me lately either.

    ;)

  126. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    The crux of the Melky debate comes down to what impact you believe PEDs have on player performance. Blake’s right in that it has never been fully quantified but I am right in saying that if there was no advantage to using them then players wouldn’t use them.

    So if you believe that the impact of PEDs on a player’s performance is minimal, you’re going to think that the Blue Jays got a steal.

    If you think that they drastically impact performance then you’re going to believe Melky is going to flame out and this contract stinks for Toronto

    If you think that they have some impact then you believe Melky’s overpaid at $7/year but will be a decent player like he was with the Yankees.

  127. bruceb January 16th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Cheating didn’t cost Melky money – Cheating may have saved Melky’s career.

    Fair point, Chip, but if he hadn’t been found out he was looking at a fat five-year deal worth $60m-plus.

  128. joeman January 16th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:04 pm
    “Without Hamilton, the Yankees signed Ichiro Suzuki, kept Curtis Granderson and gave themselves at least an outside chance of re-signing Robinson Cano next winter.”

    so now we have an “outside shot” of keeping Cano…..awesome

    ——————————————————————
    don’t think they have any shot of signing Cano at years end….Why you ask…30 year old who will want prob 7 & $150+, lesson learned to me

  129. Against All Odds January 16th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:36 pm
    “The Holliday money went to Tex. Yes I know Tex was a free agent the yr after Holliday but that’s how they planned it out.”

    I know….point was that they wouldn’t spend the money anymore….they traded for Granderson instead cause that was cheaper.

    ———————————-

    True

  130. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    JF-

    I believe they did, or if they didn’t actually make the offer #’s were being thrown around.

    I believe he had a good idea of what the Yankees were willing to do.

  131. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    Nick

    Both would nice, and it should have been possible, but if there could only be one, I think Ichiro would have made more sense if they were a young (or youngish) team in need veteran leadership (from everything I have read about Ichiro he is awesome off the field). Alas, they are a very old team.

  132. Against All Odds January 16th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 1:36 pm
    The Holliday money went to Tex. Yes I know Tex was a free agent the yr after Holliday but that’s how they planned it out.

    Or the Holliday money went to Granderson & Swisher. They could have afforded 3 out of the 4.

    ————–

    They could have

  133. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    “I actually assume a steroid free Melky is going to hit like Melky hit when he was with the Yankees since I don’t believe he started doing steroids until his career was in jeopardy following his stint in Atlanta.”

    Chip, Why? What if he were doing steroids as a Yankee? Then what? and are you going to totally disregard the learning curve of a younger player? And his LD% and his milb numbers would disagree with your conclusion.

  134. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    “I actually assume a steroid free Melky is going to hit like Melky hit when he was with the Yankees since I don’t believe he started doing steroids until his career was in jeopardy following his stint in Atlanta.”

    when he was 24 years old? Even in that worst case scenario he still OPS’d .752 that year…..Ichiro just went 3 straight seasons OPSing under .700 before last year

  135. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    blake, i just thought of this and has nothing to do with baseball. Is there such thing as peak season for a dentist?

  136. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    Chip,
    I don’t think anyone is saying that PEDs have no effect on a player…..they do….it’s just that it affects some more than others and you really need to have talent to begin with to get the results he got with them.

  137. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Translation: Cashmoney wants to know why Blake is loafing on the job again.

  138. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Cash-

    I’ll take that one.

    Yeah. Right after Halloween.

    :)

  139. jacksquat January 16th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:13 pm
    blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Larry stone on the radio now and he said that there were numerous times Montero hit balls on the nose last year and thought they were gone and they were caught and you could just tell it affected him…. Said he thinks moving the fences in will really help him
    ///

    Yes, I observed this several times last year in here, and the usual pom-pom contingent mocked it as some kind of “excuse” for “my boy”

    Completely unproveable, so completely irrelevant.

    Additionally, if a player lets a park “depress” him mentally such that it affects his performance, it’s his own fault. John Jaso hit in that park so I don’t want to hear excuses.

    And if nothing else changes, I don’t think moving the fences in 4 feet (except for left-center) is going to change much. There is obviously more at work in that park than just the dimensions.

  140. pat January 16th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    “Thanks for all the prayers and well wishes, I’ll admit I’m a little nervous ,but Im in great hands” – Alex Rodríguez @Yankees pic.twitter.com/KbzPrNF8

  141. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    “blake, i just thought of this and has nothing to do with baseball. Is there such thing as peak season for a dentist?”

    Halloween!

  142. Cashmoney January 16th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    lol Fem, nah.

  143. waka flocka January 16th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    I don’t think Cashman is that smug. He isn’t a robot like we are used to seeing in a GM’s chair. The instances being brought up must be put into context.

    Cashman’s attitude towards Bernie stemmed from Bernie demanding to play the field, demanding a major league contract, complaining about DHing, and wanting his salary to reflect the “respect” the Yankees had for him. Even after his second bad season in a row (2006) he was acting like a diva. You wouldn’t be frustrated at having to put up with this?

    As far as Melky and Kennedy go I don’t have an issue with what he said. It was an honest answer. Hes probably not wrong about Kennedy and has a great deal of evidence backing his assessment of Melky.

  144. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    “Translation: Cashmoney wants to know why Blake is loafing on the job again.”

    I’ve never confirmed or denied what I do for a living anyways ;)

  145. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    YF-

    Or maybe he is thinking of changing careers.

    ;)

  146. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    God speed, Alex!

  147. Nick in SF January 16th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    Why did Arod cheat? Why did Barry Bonds cheat? I think Mr. Burns can tell us:

    Homer: Mr. Burns, you’re the richest guy I know.

    Burns: Oh yes, but I’d trade it all for a little more.

  148. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 16th, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    Ichiro just went 3 straight seasons OPSing under .700 before last year

    _________________________________________-

    2009 Ichiro OPS’d .851. 2010 Ichiro OPS’d .754. Maybe Ichiro OPSes for the Yankees as he did after coming over from Seattle at near .800 OPS (.794 OPS).

  149. joeman January 16th, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    LAD will make a big run at Cano if hits FA, their 2nd baseman right now is 36 years old

  150. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    Why do think Blake always gives the kids EXTRA candy during Halloween.

    :)

  151. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    “Additionally, if a player lets a park “depress” him mentally such that it affects his performance, it’s his own fault. John Jaso hit in that park so I don’t want to hear excuses.”

    Jaso isn’t a rookie either…..it’s circumstantial evidence but I wouldn’t discount it.

  152. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    “2009 Ichiro OPS’d .851. 2010 Ichiro OPS’d .754. Maybe Ichiro OPSes for the Yankees as he did after coming over from Seattle at near .800 OPS (.794 OPS).”

    excuse me 2.5 seasons of OPSing under .700

  153. pat January 16th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    PeteAbe
    Best wishes to the good people of Japan as they prepare for the arrival of Vicente Padilla: http://bit.ly/10zBOYj
    PeteAbe
    “Thank goodness,” said Mark Teixeira’s helmet upon hearing the news.

  154. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    “Why did Arod cheat? Why did Barry Bonds cheat? I think Mr. Burns can tell us:”

    cause his cousin told him to…..because he was jealous of Mark Mcquire….at least that’s the narrative.

  155. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 16th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    excuse me 2.5 seasons of OPSing under .700

    ________________________________________

    It is 1.5 seasons.

  156. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    I believe they did, or if they didn’t actually make the offer #’s were being thrown around.

    I believe he had a good idea of what the Yankees were willing to do.

    Eh, gonna need some references, MTU, before I believe you that they made both a competitive offer & that Holliday spurned them for more money. All we knew is that his Dad wanted it to happen, but the Yankees were never really in the mix. The news was about Holliday being interested in the Yankees, not vice versa.

  157. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    If you think that they have some impact then you believe Melky’s overpaid at $7/year but will be a decent player like he was with the Yankees.
    ///

    So, this “average” thing, it turns out, is fairly elastic.

    Is he averagely decent? Or decently average? :D

  158. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    “It is 1.5 seasons.”

    you’re right….one shouldn’t look at baseball reference too quickly….still at 39 he’s less likely to OPS .800 than Melky is IMO by a long shot

  159. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 16th, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Yankees went after Curtis Granderson over Holliday to add the lefty power lost with Damon and Matsui. At least that is the way I understood it.

  160. randy l. January 16th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    “Cashman’s attitude towards Bernie stemmed from Bernie demanding to play the field, demanding a major league contract, complaining about DHing, and wanting his salary to reflect the “respect” the Yankees had for him. Even after his second bad season in a row (2006) he was acting like a diva. You wouldn’t be frustrated at having to put up with this?”

    cashman handled an aging yankee star all wrong.

    the silver lining is he learned to not make the mistake again with posada, jeter, or rivera.

  161. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    I don’t recall ever a report being out there that the Yankees made an actual offer to Holiday…..they were somewhat interested but always wanted the price to come down and the Cards signed him to a pretty reasonable deal even at the time….and it’s a great deal by today’s standards.

  162. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 16th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    you’re right….one shouldn’t look at baseball reference too quickly….still at 39 he’s less likely to OPS .800 than Melky is IMO by a long shot

    ________________________________

    No doubt age is an issue.

  163. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    pat January 16th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    “Thanks for all the prayers and well wishes, I’ll admit I’m a little nervous ,but Im in great hands” – Alex Rodríguez @Yankees pic.twitter.com/KbzPrNF8
    ///

    All the best, Alex :D

  164. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    “Yankees went after Curtis Granderson over Holliday to add the lefty power lost with Damon and Matsui. At least that is the way I understood it.”

    they could have had them both if they wanted…..but in reality I think they chose to trade for Granderson to replace offense because he cost a lot less in dollars and because they saw the players they were dealing as expendable.

  165. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Holliday $$$ did NOT got to TEX. There Never was any “plan” to sign TEX. Cashman had to convince Hal to increase the team payroll\budget, in order to sign TEX.

  166. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    “Additionally, if a player lets a park “depress” him mentally such that it affects his performance, it’s his own fault. John Jaso hit in that park so I don’t want to hear excuses.”

    Jaso isn’t a rookie either…..it’s circumstantial evidence but I wouldn’t discount it.
    __________
    You’re going to compare a lefty 29 year old in Jaso to an age 22 y.o first year player?

  167. joeman January 16th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    did I ever tell you Alex & I have the same knee doctor

  168. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    JF-

    You can dig back if you like, or disbelieve if you like but that’s my recollection.

    There were many rumors at the time which stated the parameters of what the Yankees were prepared to do.

    Check with “Lost” I’m sure he can also fill you in. He was all over it.

    Like I said, there may not have been a formal offer but there is no doubt they were super interested.

  169. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    Check with “Lost” I’m sure he can also fill you in. He was all over it.

    Well, come on now :)

  170. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    I still don’t see why PEDs should factor in.. like I said, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Cano has been using something. He wasn’t on anyone’s radar in the minors, he wasn’t raking then, and became the best player in the league… isn’t that evidence enough in this era that he probably used something?

    I just don’t see how the PEDs are a factor in the discussion except on the periphery. I don’t blame people for making it a factor, but I don’t think I’m being disingenuous by keeping it relative to cost, age, and production. Even 2006 Melky was better than most of our club last year offensively: .280 /.360 /.391 /.752

    Which gives me the sads…

  171. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 16th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    they could have had them both if they wanted…..but in reality I think they chose to trade for Granderson to replace offense because he cost a lot less in dollars and because they saw the players they were dealing as expendable.

    ______________________

    True, they could have had them both. I just remember them focusing on lefty power and filling Damon’s spot, they chose to go with Gardner over Austin Jackson in leftfield, and they already had Swisher in rightfield.

  172. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Cashman sassed Jeet and Posada, after Bernie The guy has learned nothing. And I see Nothing wrong with Bernie acting “like a Diva”. The guy in fact was a Diva.

  173. blake January 16th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    MTU,

    if Jon Heyman didn’t tweet it….it didn’t happen!

  174. Nick in SF January 16th, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    “I still don’t see why PEDs should factor in…”

    Yeah, that’s strange.

  175. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    “Additionally, if a player lets a park “depress” him mentally such that it affects his performance, it’s his own fault. John Jaso hit in that park so I don’t want to hear excuses.”

    Jaso isn’t a rookie either…..it’s circumstantial evidence but I wouldn’t discount it.
    __________
    You’re going to compare a lefty 29 year old in Jaso to an age 22 y.o first year player?
    ///

    Today has been fascinating. Melky is a 4th OF and Montero, at 23, is a bust :D.

  176. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 16th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    I do not like how the Yankees have treated some of the older guard. Unfortunately, the Yankees history was also not kind to certain former superstars at the end of their rope, such as Babe Ruth and how he was booted out the door. For me, Bernie and Jorge deserved to be treated better, and the most recent Jeter contract talk and hard-nosed negotiations were unnecessary.

  177. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Cashman sassed Jeet and Posada, after Bernie The guy has learned nothing. And I see Nothing wrong with Bernie acting “like a Diva”. The guy in fact was a Diva.
    ///

    I believe it’s called I-RON-Y :D

  178. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    JF-

    Again. I’m not going to vouch for anyone or not.

    You can choose to believe whatever you want to believe.

    I am absolutely convinced “lost” was wired into the news at that time.

    There were many other rumors at the time. You can dig them out if you like.

    To me the whole thing is past history now. Water under the bridge.

    Bottom line is we didn’t get him. i laughed when people said he was a product of Coors field.

    They say the same things about Cargo now.

    That boy will hit anywhere.

  179. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 16th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    I still want to see the 1998 team honored this season given the 15 year anniversary.

  180. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Quote from Jaso, as per above: “It takes patience,” Jaso said. “It took me 21/2 years to find myself at this level, a lot of these kids are in their first full season.”

    http://www.heraldnet.com/artic...../707069875

    Also thought this was a cool non-baseball quote by Jaso that Compass Rosy might appreciate:

    “I do love Seattle and the area. I like the feel of the rain hitting me, the green, the mountain,” Jaso said.

  181. jacksquat January 16th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
    “Additionally, if a player lets a park “depress” him mentally such that it affects his performance, it’s his own fault. John Jaso hit in that park so I don’t want to hear excuses.”

    Jaso isn’t a rookie either…..it’s circumstantial evidence but I wouldn’t discount it.
    __________
    You’re going to compare a lefty 29 year old in Jaso to an age 22 y.o first year player?

    Yes.

    Jaso was only in his 3rd year in the majors. And Montero is supposed to be “generational”, while John Jaso is just John Jaso.

    I’m not buying the “he was depressed” or “he didn’t like the park” excuse, for anyone. Use your brain and adjust to your environment.

  182. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Nick in SF January 16th, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    “I still don’t see why PEDs should factor in…”

    Yeah, that’s strange.

    —————————-

    I know you’re being sarcastic, but I really don’t see why it should be the main event in the discussion. You disagree.. that’s okay. For some people PEDs are a big factor. I gave up on having them mean anything to me. I was a lot more anti-steroids, cleaning up the game, etc. But, for me, it feels like a waste of time. His numbers outside of a season or two are very solid… same could be said of Ichiro’s career. I’d take the younger guy 9 out of 10 times.

  183. jacksquat January 16th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 1:58 pm
    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    “Additionally, if a player lets a park “depress” him mentally such that it affects his performance, it’s his own fault. John Jaso hit in that park so I don’t want to hear excuses.”

    Jaso isn’t a rookie either…..it’s circumstantial evidence but I wouldn’t discount it.
    __________
    You’re going to compare a lefty 29 year old in Jaso to an age 22 y.o first year player?
    ///

    Today has been fascinating. Melky is a 4th OF and Montero, at 23, is a bust .

    Where did I call Montero a bust?

    Don’t worry, I never expect you to answer the tough questions.

  184. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Maybe Jaso doesn’t like Sunshine either.

    :)

  185. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    “I just don’t see how the PEDs are a factor in the discussion except on the periphery.

  186. waka flocka January 16th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Cashman’s job is to get the best player at the best price for the Yankees. At the time Bernie Williams was asking for too much money and definitely was NOT the best option in any way, shape, or form. He couldn’t run, couldn’t field, and couldn’t hit (save the occasional HR). You condone him insinuating that the Yankees didn’t respect him because they refused to dismiss these facts?

  187. jacksquat January 16th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Probably they didn’t sign Melky just because they plain don’t like him. Probably the same with Pierzynski.

  188. jacksquat January 16th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    MTU January 16th, 2013 at 2:03 pm
    Maybe Jaso doesn’t like Sunshine either.

    Maybe Montero was depressed by the lack of sunshine…

  189. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    As I said, this goes to character. Melky has None.

  190. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Looks like today is rehash the past day.

    That isn’t a National Holiday is it ?

    :)

  191. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Jack-

    All I can say is that it would get to me.

    ;)

  192. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    MTU,

    I am sure this Lost guy has some fringe inside connection. The world is littered with such people. The reason you know they’re fringe is because they need to come here and “be somebody” ‘cos they are not really on the inside as a “player.” Yeah, he may end up with something. A lot of what he says, though, is pretty generic. Not meaning he’s faking something, but it’s not something that one couldn’t just logically surmise without a “connection.”

    Now, there’s a difference between that and someone who posts regularly here and who has some degree of intimacy with the other regulars here, and also happens to occasionally move in circles that cross over into baseball. That’s just a “friend” sharing something with his/her established group he/she normally communes with on the Yankees, and you’re going to take that as having a bit more substance, or at least, I’m going to.

    I just find guys like “Lost”, who don’t seem to have a real connection with this place, somewhat transparent in their “groupie”ness and therefore dismiss them easily enough.

  193. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    As I said, this goes to character. Melky has None.
    ///

    Jeter seems to like him :D

  194. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Jeet was buddies with Jones, and we know of his current “alleged” problems also.

  195. Nick in SF January 16th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Shame, look at Melky’s 2011 slash line in 2011 and then his 2012 slash line up until the day he was suspended for cheating.

    What should a switch-hitting outfielder at his age and with a good OF defense and a very good arm be signed for as a free agent? How many years and at what AAV?

    That’s how PEDs are a factor. He should have gotten 5/$75 millions, or however you want to tweak the numbers.

    I don’t think you’re being disingenuous, but when you say you’re “just keeping it relative to cost, age, and production” you’re ignoring the fact that no one knows what Melky’s production is going to be if he stays clean, just as no one knows if he even will stay clean or why he was caught in the first place.

    Reading back, we have the opinions on one extreme that Melky will be as bad as he was in Atlanta and on the other extreme that Melky will be as good as he was in SF and only took testosterone to ward off chubby chasers.

    Toronto took a risk in signing Melky — my guess is that it will pay off for them and Melky will be worth what they’re paying if not more. But it could go badly for him/them in more than one way. The argument here was that the Yanks should take advantage of Melky’s sloppiness and be the ones getting him on the cheap. I wish they had.

    But the Yankees are also a team with a personal history with Melky that was probably a factor in trading him away in the first place. The Royals didn’t sign Melky. The Giants didn’t bring back Melky. The Braves didn’t bring back Melky. None of the teams with a personal history with Melky brought him back. This does not make any of those teams correct in their choice, but it’s the choice they made.

  196. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Where did I call Montero a bust?

    Don’t worry, I never expect you to answer the tough questions.
    ///

    My identification with the original post was limited to searing line drives that were caught and other loud outs. I made no allusion to his mental state, myself, in playing in Seattle. My observations, that he’d been hitting the ball hard without any luck during a stretch or two, was what was mocked, by an idiot here who does nothing but try to start fires between other posters like the voyeur and ghost he is.

    Your comment about “excuses” though, is kind of trite. A 22 year old rookie doesn’t really need excuse finding for him to allow for a year of adjustment, does he? Don’t worry, I never expect you to answer with any grace and lack of derision :D.

  197. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    JAP-

    Perhaps you are right. His info. “at the time” seemed real and believable enough to me.

    Nowadays he has less credibility with me though I do still believe he tries to pass on what he can.

    He never said that he was anything special. He said he was just a “drone”.

    Whatever that means.

  198. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Yes.

    Jaso was only in his 3rd year in the majors. And Montero is supposed to be “generational”, while John Jaso is just John Jaso.

    I’m not buying the “he was depressed” or “he didn’t like the park” excuse, for anyone. Use your brain and adjust to your environment.
    _____
    JS, I know nothing about whether or not Montero was depressed, or making excuses. Guess you can have at it with Larry Stone if you must. However, who said he wasn’t using his brain and trying to adjust? That is subjective on your part. And comparing the two players is kind of worthless. Jaso is 29 years old; Montero is a young player on a learning curve. Just kind of unproductive on your part.

  199. blake January 16th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    “Shame, look at Melky’s 2011 slash line in 2011 and then his 2012 slash line up until the day he was suspended for cheating.”

    that also coincides with the years most folks consider to be a player’s prime though….26-32

  200. blake January 16th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    look I”m not saying PEDs didn’t help Melky…..but I don’t think we can discount the fact that his numbers jumped at the time when most players numbers do jump if they are going to either.

  201. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Jeet was buddies with Jones, and we know of his current “alleged” problems also.
    ///

    So then, Jeter’s general take on whether or not one is a “good clubhouse guy” and a “good player” whom he would “welcome back” don’t account for much, I guess, in the context of the team dynamic.

    So, who do we go to, to find this stuff out, if not Jeter?

  202. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    MTU,

    Look, I have nothing against this guy. I just don’t understand who you’d rush onto a blog you’re not really that active in to report some inside “scoop.” What’s the motivation? Invisible people saying, wow, he’s got the inside track?

    What’s the point? Maybe since twitter he doesn’t come in that much and folks are just quoting his twitter? That may be, I don’t really pay much attention to him. I don’t care whether his comments are reported here or not, I just kind of understood JF’s seeming skepticism.

  203. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    *why you’d rush onto a blog…

  204. Nick in SF January 16th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    blake, you might have missed my point. I’m not suggesting that Melky’s 2011/2012 production was due to PED usage.

    I’m saying that the GM’s who had to option to pursue Melky had to and clearly did take it into account because, absent that taint, a switch-hitting OF with those numbers, at Melky’s age, and with Melky’s defensive skills would be signed for more and longer than what Melky just signed for.

  205. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Reading back, we have the opinions on one extreme that Melky will be as bad as he was in Atlanta and on the other extreme that Melky will be as good as he was in SF and only took testosterone to ward off chubby chasers.
    ///

    Please produce the comment where it was said he “be as good as he was in SF”. I don’t recall ANYONE making that statement. :D

  206. jacksquat January 16th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    Bottom line for Montero, other players can hit in that park. Say he’s just a rookie, cut him some slack, fine, but he’ll have to adjust, he can’t just pout because of the park, if that is in fact what is happening, or partly. Montero should be able to hit there, as he is not just a uppercut all or nothing type hitter, he should be able to hit for average and doubles, with maybe a little decrease in home runs.

  207. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Except no one, that I’m aware of, said that he didn’t have to adjust.

  208. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    JAP-

    Everyone is entitled to form their own opinions. If JF wants to be skeptical that’s fine with me.

    I have no problem with that. I’m a skeptic myself.

    I don’t think the guy is any kind of Guru either just maybe someone who has a little more inside info. than me.

    I surely don’t hang on his every word.

    ;)

  209. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Even superstars that have come to the Yankees and other teams have to adjust.

  210. Nick in SF January 16th, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Wait a second, I’m NOT persona non prufrock?

    And he even SMILED at me with deep sincerity?

    Happy days are here again!

    :arrow:

  211. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    MTU,

    Gotcha. I found GLove’s “Yankee moll” (lol) info, far more interesting :).

  212. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    Nick, I believe you are reaching out to me, in your way, behind your chopsticks. And I am moved.

  213. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Nick – All fair points. But I still think the PED issue hinges on how much you believe they hurt or help. I don’t think it turns a guy into a total pumpkin so, and this is specified in many of my comments already, for me I don’t see PEDs being the crux of the argument for signing him or not.

    If I was in charge of something important, like a baseball team, I might want to avoid the PR hit of course. :D So I get that it’s still a factor and citing that other teams passed for those reasons is valid. I just tend to believe its more PR than probabilities at work… I think the probabilities are in favor of Melky being a productive player (not at batting title levels, for the record).

  214. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    …so, who said he would he would “be as good as he was in SF” again? :D

  215. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    Melky winning a future batting title, like he effectively, unofficially did last year, is not out of the question.

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