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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pinch hitting: Barry Millman

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 16, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Lucky timing on this one. One day after Rafael Soriano agreed to a two-year deal with the Nationals, Barry Millman presents his list of the five best non-moves made by Brian Cashman this winter.

Barry is a native New Yorker who seldom misses a Yankees game. He’s also former newspaper reporter and community relations professional who in June celebrated 20 years of what he calls a “mixed marriage” to a Red Sox fan. Barry currently works as a political research consultant, and he’s counting the days until his annual “pinstripe pilgrimage” to spring training.

It’s been a quiet winter for the Yankees, and a discontented one for fans of a blank-check improvement program who feel the team is forsaking desirable free agents and its traditional win-now philosophy in the name of austerity. However, history has shown the best moves are often the ones not made, and chalking off every lost free agent Brian Cashman didn’t chase to the boogie man of Hal Steinbrenner’s 2014 payroll target is overly simplistic and short-sighted. There’s a case to be made for every one of his non-moves that goes beyond the money.

1) Josh Hamilton

Case for the move: Buy Hamilton’s bat, put it in the Bronx bandbox in place of Granderson’s and watch the scoreboard explode from the power surge and increased offensive production.

Case for the non-move: Aside from the steamer trunk-sized personal baggage Josh carries with him, proponents of this move generally overlook the inconvenient truths that Rangers Ballpark is an even bigger launching pad for home runs and extra base hits than the Stadium — and even with that home field slugging advantage, Josh’s actual production has markedly lagged behind Curtis’s, as evidenced by a side-by-side comparison of their last six seasons:

Granderson: 183 HR, 503 RBI, 639 R, (1142 total runs), 27.0 WAR
Postseason: 131 AB .229 BA, .791 OPS

Hamilton: 161 HR, 553 RBI, 471 R, (1024 total runs) 23.2 WAR
Postseason: 132 AB, .227 BA, .720 OPS

Of course, Curtis managed to show up for at least 135 games every one of those six seasons while Josh only managed that feat once, so Curtis’s superior production is due in no small part to Josh’s habitual inability to stay on the field. However, that’s a reality that can’t be ignored. Josh wasn’t simply too expensive for the Yankees — though he was — and Curtis’s contract didn’t simply make more sense simply because it expires at the end of 2013 — though it does — Josh simply would’ve provided less bang for way more bucks.

2) Russell Martin

Case for the move: A proven bird in the hand beats three unproven ones battling for the chance to fly.

Case for the non-move: Few fans were back-slapping Brian when he plucked Russell off the non-tender discard pile two years ago and, somewhat ironically, fewer still are patting Brian on the back now that he let him walk. Russell turned out to be a more than adequate fit in the team’s long-term plan to begin integrating the next crop of homegrown backstops into the roster, however, his insistence on a two-year deal to return in that role didn’t fit nearly as well. Austin Romine may start the season in Scranton, but the team has made it clear Romine likely won’t end it there and will be the front-runner for the starting role in 2014. In the interim, with nearly a month of shopping days remaining before spring training, it’s hard to imagine Brian won’t once again fill Joe Girardi”s standing order for a seasoned hand with some pop behind the plate and pluck yet another unheralded, undervalued veteran catcher from the discard pile who, like Russell, will be more than adequate. (Cough cough Shoppach cough.)

3) A.J. Pierzynski

Case for the move: After a two-year hangover in the aftermath of the Posada Party, it would be great to have a catcher who can bat over .211 and belt 27 home runs in 2013.

Case for the non-move: Of course it would. But hitting so many dingers after a then-career high of just 18 seven years ago — followed by declining seasons of 16, 14, 13, 13, 9 and then 8 — is probably a pretty good indicator Pierzynski won’t match last season’s output. It may also be an indicator of something fishy that could explain why only one team made him an offer (and only a one-year deal at that) despite his durability and newfound power. As for improving on Russell’s 2012 batting average, it would be hard to find a catcher who won’t.

4) Rafael Soriano

Case for the move: Soriano had a Mo-sized year in the saves column and post-injury Mo is a question mark, so out with Mariano and in with Soriano.

Case for the non-move: While Soriano’s 42 saves were impressive, many of them bore an uncomfortable similarity to D-Rob’s sometimes frightening Houdini act: losing the plate, putting tying and winning runners on, giving the other team hope; seldom 1-2-3. Nobody in Yankee Universe ever felt like the game was over when Soriano was handed the ball; a stark contrast to Mo’s appearances where you can actually see despair in the eyes of batters shuffling uncomfortably to the box — and the difference isn’t just in the eye test but in the numbers. Over the last five years, Soriano had just one sub-2.00 ERA season while Mo has only had one over 2.00. Mo also out-WHIPped Soriano, who had four 1.00-plus seasons in that same span compared to exactly none for Mo. The verdict: In the people’s case of Mariano vs. Soriano, if the former’s repaired knee is able to carry him to a mound and throw from it, it’s the latter who doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

5) Nick Swisher

Case for the move: Sure he disappears every year in the playoffs and his defense is sketchy, but it’s going to be hard to replace his on-base percentage, power and knack for hitting with RISP.

Case for the non-move: OBP is a neat stat, but its value is somewhat diminished when the stat’s owner can barely outrun the ump to the next bag and his team is committed to transitioning toward a more aggressive run-manufacturing offense (five stolen bases in four years by an outfielder? Russell swiped more than that in 2012 alone!); and defense looms larger to a team looking to improve on a 22-25 record in one-run games last year. Nick’s power and talent for hitting with runners on base will be missed to be sure, and the team is actively hunting for another outfield/DH bat with pop to help make up some of the loss. It’s worth noting, however, that Nick hit 11 HR in 265 AB at the Stadium this year, and his replacement Ichiro Suzuki had 5 HR in 130 AB; so at home at least, Ichy could conceivably approach if not match Nick’s power numbers himself.

Perhaps the best and most overlooked reason of all for not re-signing him, though, was the second half of the four-year deal he wanted. With a strong crop of outfield prospects expected to land in the show in two years — and Brett Gardner and Ichy both slated to become free agents at the end of 2014 — Nick would have posed an uncomfortable and likely declining roadblock. After all, it’s not just about saving money next year, and it’s not just about winning now. It’s about investing in a future that’s as committed to winning now as it ever was — though winning now too would be awesome.

Did I mention he disappears in the playoffs?

Associated Press photos

 
 

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237 Responses to “Pinch hitting: Barry Millman”

  1. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 9:10 am

    “..and the team is actively hunting for another outfield/DH bat with pop to help make up some of the loss.”

    ——————————–

    “Actively” might be a strong word. :lol:

    And I like Ichiro, but he’s never going to replace Swisher’s power numbers.

  2. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:10 am

    “Yeah, this. Sadly, I think the only offer the Yankees can make involves Granderson and his age and contract situation don’t merit the same package Upton does.”

    right….the Yanks would have to supplement Granderson to make Seattle happy…..and might have to supplement Arizona too…..at that point you may be getting in to the “cost too much” range.

  3. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:12 am

    Swisher has out WAR’d Teixera over the last 3 seasons.

  4. PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 9:12 am

    Have been thinking draft and the value of the extra picks.

    I was looking at the Baseball-Reference website and it looks like generally 70-80% of the players taken in the 1st round (including supplemental picks, so we are talking something like 40 picks each year) make it to the majors. Obviously a lot of these players are not great, but there is a lot of talent through the supplemental picks (e.g., Joba, Adam Jones, Gio Gonzalez, Buchholz etc). Hopefully 1 of their 3 picks can turn into someone useful.

  5. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 9:12 am

    I don’t believe for a second that Cashman didn’t want to sign any of those players. I suspect that his hands are tied, in part due to ownership’s decision to give A-Rod that contract, against his recommendation, and in part due to some of his bad prior decisions on contracts.

  6. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 9:13 am

    Blake-

    You might as well just accept it.

    Eat your gruel and smile.

  7. PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 9:16 am

    Oh year, and nice post by Barry – I like the analysis and agree with the points.

  8. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    Dooley-

    The future is not a problem. Possibly only the present, or near-future.

    For those who can wait and have some patience the future looks bright IMO.

    That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it.

    ;)

  9. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 9:19 am

    Rich-

    If the Yankees happen to do poorly this season (I hope not) some of the changes many seek are likely to occur for next season.

    ;)

  10. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:20 am

    “Hopefully 1 of their 3 picks can turn into someone useful.”

    it’s like throwing darts at a board….the more chances you get the better chance you can hit the bullseye

  11. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    yea good post

  12. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:22 am

    Watching Hot Stove on MLB Network. The conversation is about Boras clients flocking to the Nationals.

    With that as the backdrop they were speculating that Washington might be the front runners for Robinson Cano next winter.

    All that said, Greg Amsinger throws out this potential deal:

    Yankees get: Morse, Danny Espinosa, Drew Storen
    Washington gets: Robinson Cano

  13. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 9:22 am

    @craigcalcaterra

    Manny Ramirez wants to continue his MLB career? Seems far-fetched, but he’d instantly be the Mets best outfielder.

    —————————

    Paco – Does it specify how long they last in the majors or just that 75-80% make it there?

  14. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    “Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 8:41 am
    Reallistically, who would you give up for Morse? For Upton?”

    for Morse: maybe Logan and a B lister….I’d consider Nova for him straight up but I’m in the minority there and admit that’s probably an over pay

    for Upton: probably 2 of the (Austin, Mason, Heathcott, Sanchez) group, either Phelps or Nova, and then another prospect like CoJo or Adams or somebody. Would obviously prefer to keep Sanchez out

  15. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    “Yankees get: Morse, Danny Espinosa, Drew Storen
    Washington gets: Robinson Cano”

    not enough for me…..not trading Cano to Washington without getting Rendon and one of their pitching prospects

  16. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Again, “winning now” and infusing youth aren’t mutually exclusive. This mentality has to go.

  17. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    All that said, Greg Amsinger throws out this potential deal:

    Yankees get: Morse, Danny Espinosa, Drew Storen
    Washington gets: Robinson Cano

    ———————-

    I want Rendon more than Morse or Espinosa.

  18. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Um, Melky Cabrera says hello.

    That’s who they should have signed, both in terms of upside, youth, and dollars/years.

    Big whiff by Cashman & Co.

  19. Shame Spencer January 16th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Again, “winning now” and infusing youth aren’t mutually exclusive. This mentality has to go.

    —————–

    You’re absolutely right. It just requires smart strategy and PLANNING.

    I’m all for being spontaneous in my own small little life, but as an organization you need to map these things out. Not saying it has to be set in stone, but you need a plan to make it work.

  20. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    Time to walk the hairy snake food.

    (That was in memory of you GB. I haven’t forgotten you. We’ll meet one day.)

    ;)

  21. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    for Upton: probably 2 of the (Austin, Mason, Heathcott, Sanchez) group, either Phelps or Nova, and then another prospect like CoJo or Adams or somebody. Would obviously prefer to keep Sanchez out.
    _____
    Putting Sanchez in a deal with Austin, one of Mason, Heathcott and a pitcher plus Cojo or Adams is an overpay. If Cash included Sanchez, then I would be sorely disappointed in him.

  22. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    Melky was probably the best value signing this offseason….they fact that Toronto got him for just a little more than we gave Ichiro is kinda funny

  23. Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    I just don’t see the Yanks trading Cano. Cashman and Co. are not bold enough to make a trade like that. I still think they resign him next year. The whole thing about being so frugal this year is with an eye on resigning Cano next year. Maybe Hughes too, if he has a good year.

  24. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Yep, Melky was a viable solution. But but but he is “tainted.” :roll:

  25. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    “Yankees get: Morse, Danny Espinosa, Drew Storen
    Washington gets: Robinson Cano”

    not enough for me…..not trading Cano to Washington without getting Rendon and one of their pitching prospects
    ————–

    Well yes that would be nice – however it’s not realistic.

    Rizzo is a smart GM; I don’t think he’s going to give up a boatload for a player he then has to sign to an 8 year contract worth $25 per year. It’s like when Cashman didn’t want to trade a ton of talent to the Twins for Johan and then sign him to a new deal.

  26. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    With that as the backdrop they were speculating that Washington might be the front runners for Robinson Cano next winter.
    -

    The Yankees have to realize now that they are going to be paying more than makes sense if they want to keep him, and if not, then trade him because draft picks aren’t sufficient compensation.

    That is why I disagree with the post that is the subject of this thread. Not signing any of those guys makes sense, but giving Cano $200-$220 does? I don’t think so.

  27. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    “Putting Sanchez in a deal with Austin, one of Mason, Heathcott and a pitcher plus Cojo or Adams is an overpay. If Cash included Sanchez, then I would be sorely disappointed in him.”

    eh….maybe….I’d prefer to keep Sanchez out….but then Towers probably would want him for the same reasons we do. If you had to give Sanchez then I’m not sure if I’d do the deal or not……tough call there

  28. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Again, “winning now” and infusing youth aren’t mutually exclusive. This mentality has to go.
    ///

    Agreed. It’s a way of manipulating language. You’re supposed to infer that NOT going with youth equals winning. Going with youth equals losing. And that by NOT going with youth, you have some guarantee of “winning”, which otherwise would be sacrificed by going with “youth.” Absurd.

  29. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Shame, not,?i> infusing youth is instrumental to not winning now, actually.

  30. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    “Well yes that would be nice – however it’s not realistic.”

    Well Mike….do you want a potential dynasty or not….we are talking about an 8 WAR player here buddy….one of the best in baseball…..either you gimmi your 3B prospect that has proven nothing and is blocked and more…..or no deal ;)

  31. Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:27 am
    for Upton: probably 2 of the (Austin, Mason, Heathcott, Sanchez) group, either Phelps or Nova, and then another prospect like CoJo or Adams or somebody. Would obviously prefer to keep Sanchez out.
    _____
    Putting Sanchez in a deal with Austin, one of Mason, Heathcott and a pitcher plus Cojo or Adams is an overpay. If Cash included Sanchez, then I would be sorely disappointed in him.

    __________________________________________

    Might try only one of those 4. AZ has lost some leverage since Upton refused to go to Seattle, taking away a potential suitor. PLus it seems as though now he HAS to trade Upton since the relaitonship is strained, and everyone knows Towers DID accept a trade for him.

  32. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    Oops, it’s too early for me, should read not winning. Too early to set the blog on “italicized” fire.

  33. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    “Putting Sanchez in a deal with Austin, one of Mason, Heathcott and a pitcher plus Cojo or Adams is an overpay. If Cash included Sanchez, then I would be sorely disappointed in him.”

    eh….maybe….I’d prefer to keep Sanchez out….but then Towers probably would want him for the same reasons we do. If you had to give Sanchez then I’m not sure if I’d do the deal or not……tough call there
    —————-

    It’s moot I think. If the Yankees are going to trade for an Arizona OF I think they’ll deal for Kubel instead of Upton.

    Arizona’s also about to do a deal with Aaron Hill so CoJo/Adams won’t interest them.

  34. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    I’m certainly not trading Cano for a year of Morse….a downgrade at 2B….and a reliever.

  35. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    I am torn. The Yankees may have too many developing holes to trade most of their best young talent, but I don’t think they have the patience to develop them.

  36. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    “Arizona’s also about to do a deal with Aaron Hill so CoJo/Adams won’t interest them.”

    Adams can play 3B and they want one of those…..Towers probably got a decent look at him in the AFL…..you could do worse than him as a 4th piece in a trade.

  37. PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:27 am
    Melky was probably the best value signing this offseason…
    ————————–

    Well, remains to be seen – I tend to agree with you, but there is also the chance that he is not terribly effective without chemically derived ‘help’. I think that they will see something approximately midway between the KC Melky and the 2012 PED propelled version, which is a decent outfielder at a decent price.

  38. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    “Well yes that would be nice – however it’s not realistic.”

    Well Mike….do you want a potential dynasty or not….we are talking about an 8 WAR player here buddy….one of the best in baseball…..either you gimmi your 3B prospect that has proven nothing and is blocked and more…..or no deal ;)
    =============

    Yes Brian I do want a dynasty. However I can keep all my prospects and then just sign Robinson next year because I can spend money and you can’t. So you can take what I’m offering you or you can explain to your fans how the compensation pick you’re going to get for Robbie is better than the three major leaguers I’m offering you. Have fun with that.

  39. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    I don’t see hoe PEDs made Melky a .300+ hitter.

  40. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    blake, I love JUps too, but if you saw Sanchez hit live, you would not do that deal. Seriously. Especially considering the viability of his remaining behind the plate. Too premium a position, and comparable to him in the org.

  41. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    “Arizona’s also about to do a deal with Aaron Hill so CoJo/Adams won’t interest them.”

    Adams can play 3B and they want one of those…..Towers probably got a decent look at him in the AFL…..you could do worse than him as a 4th piece in a trade.
    ———————-

    They have Chris Johnson at 3b.

  42. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    *nothing comparable to him. Ugh, need more strong green tea before posting.

  43. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    A deal I’d consider for Cano: Morse, Rendon, Sammy Solis, and Zach Walters

    I’m simply not trading Cano if I can’t get a return like that.

  44. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Cojo is really not a good fielder, unfortunately.

  45. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:37 am

    Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    I don’t see hoe PEDs made Melky a .300+ hitter.
    ———————–

    He was always a decent contact hitter, PEDs can help a guy get stronger though making weak pop outs and grounders into line drives. So it might not improve your pitch recognition but it can improve your BAbip

  46. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 9:37 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    Melky was probably the best value signing this offseason….they fact that Toronto got him for just a little more than we gave Ichiro is kinda funny
    ///

    Funny if you’re a Jays fan. Sad if you’re a Yankee fan…and predictable. They had their “in” like no other in getting an in-prime player who didn’t have to be platooned, can play the OF, is a contact-oriented guy, hits .300 and can also take advantage of the RF fence, and who, getting busted for testosterone, could have been had on the cheap.

    It was all set up for a remarriage, and they instead play the sanctimony card. Idiocy.

  47. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Rich, they didn’t. It truly s***s that Melky is in our division. SMH. We will regret not signing him.

  48. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:38 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    A deal I’d consider for Cano: Morse, Rendon, Sammy Solis, and Zach Walters

    I’m simply not trading Cano if I can’t get a return like that.
    ———————-

    I would prefer Espinosa to Rendon if for no other reason than that if the Yankees trade Cano they need a 2b and Espinosa is a good young ML 2b

  49. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Melky has very good pitch recognition. He is one of the few hitters (esp. would have been on a team like ours) that can consistently hit breaking balls. Think we couldn’t have used that?

  50. Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Morse for Logan and Nova. Phelps can replace Nova, and Brett Marshall isn’t that far away if they need another starter.

  51. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:37 am

    Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    I don’t see hoe PEDs made Melky a .300+ hitter.
    ———————–

    He was always a decent contact hitter, PEDs can help a guy get stronger though making weak pop outs and grounders into line drives. So it might not improve your pitch recognition but it can improve your BAbip
    ///

    Where are all those .300 plus switch hitters with some pop? Testosterone cannot create a hit tool like that. The fact that you believe that it can is somewhat unbelievable.

  52. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Rich, they didn’t. It truly s***s that Melky is in our division. SMH. We will regret not signing him.

    -

    If Ichiro has a better season than Melky I will admit I was wrong. Will Cashman (or Levine?) if Melky does?

  53. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    How much pop will Adams give you at third though? Depends on what kind of 3B a team is looking for…

  54. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    …and he was always a line drive hitter and was never a “weak pop out” type. You may be confusing him with Brett Gardner, whose helicopter swing produced feeble, shallow pop flies.

  55. Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:38 am
    blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    A deal I’d consider for Cano: Morse, Rendon, Sammy Solis, and Zach Walters

    I’m simply not trading Cano if I can’t get a return like that.
    ———————-

    I would prefer Espinosa to Rendon if for no other reason than that if the Yankees trade Cano they need a 2b and Espinosa is a good young ML 2b

    ___________________________________________________

    Problem is AZ is not giving all that up without knowing if they can resign Cano long term

  56. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    I love Ichiro, but for two years… And I would rather have Melky.

  57. Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:41 am
    How much pop will Adams give you at third though? Depends on what kind of 3B a team is looking for…

    __________________________________________________

    Scott Brosius was never considered a big power hitter and they did just fine with him. Adams could be a similar tyoe hitter

  58. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:37 am

    Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    I don’t see hoe PEDs made Melky a .300+ hitter.
    ———————–

    He was always a decent contact hitter, PEDs can help a guy get stronger though making weak pop outs and grounders into line drives. So it might not improve your pitch recognition but it can improve your BAbip
    ///

    Where are all those .300 plus switch hitters with some pop? Testosterone cannot create a hit tool like that. The fact that you believe that it can is somewhat unbelievable.
    ============

    Testosterone helps you recover from working out.

    The ability to recover from working out helps you work out more.

    Working out more makes you stronger.

    The stronger you are the more power you have.

    More power turns weak fly balls and grounders into line drives.

    If PEDs didn’t help ball players play better then they wouldn’t take them. Simple as that.

  59. PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:37 am
    Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    I don’t see hoe PEDs made Melky a .300+ hitter.
    ———————–

    He was always a decent contact hitter, PEDs can help a guy get stronger though making weak pop outs and grounders into line drives. So it might not improve your pitch recognition but it can improve your BAbip
    ————————
    PEDs do not convert poor players into very good players, they improve on the abilities of the player and they could clearly change a guy from a .275 hitter to a ..325 hitter. They almost certainly can improve bat speed and control given their effect on muscle development and repair. There are obviously no controlled studies, but I would be shocked if they do no have a substantial impact on BA and pretty much all other offensive stats. Bat speed makes a difference to pretty much everything you do at the plate, not to mention ability to control the bat through the swing.

  60. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Melky has very good pitch recognition. He is one of the few hitters (esp. would have been on a team like ours) that can consistently hit breaking balls. Think we couldn’t have used that?
    ///

    And that’s really always been the case. Melky has always had that timing, even when he was befuddled by high inside heat. He learned to lay off that – that’s been a big reason for the change, and that he started driving the ball right-handed instead of slapping it. That was bound to come if you paid attention to him, as I have, since Staten Island days. The soft stuff, he could always hit. He has been known to pound a sinker into the grass, but breaking stuff has never been an issue for him.

  61. Rich in NJ January 16th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Scott Brosius was never considered a big power hitter and they did just fine with him. Adams could be a similar tyoe hitter
    -

    They had Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Tino, O’Neill, and Knoblach raking to offset Brosius. It doesn’t look like they will have a lineup like that any time soon. But Adams could be the best they have.

  62. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Melky didn’t exact have weak pop outs. Look at his second half stats in Atlanta for instancein 2010. Melky’s LD% in that second half with the Braves was over 24%.

    Tackelberry, I like Adams’ bat and what he would bring for us. I’ve seen him play a lot; however, a team dealing for a 3B might want a hitter with more pop. Therefore, depending on ones lineup, Adams value as a trade chip–in an Upton deal, for instance–might be more limited than a 3B with more pop, was my point.

  63. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Adams seems to be a very different player than Brosius. Adams (at least in the minors) is a good avg/OBP guy whereas Brosius wasn’t.

  64. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    “I think that they will see something approximately midway between the KC Melky and the 2012 PED propelled version, which is a decent outfielder at a decent price.”

    thats a real good player….and still a bargain for what they paid him

  65. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    “they could clearly change a guy from a .275 hitter to a ..325 hitter.”
    ___
    I don’t agree.

  66. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    “Yes Brian I do want a dynasty. However I can keep all my prospects and then just sign Robinson next year because I can spend money and you can’t. ”

    you don’t know if I can or not Mike and what about 2013? Flags fly forever big guy

  67. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    “I think that they will see something approximately midway between the KC Melky and the 2012 PED propelled version, which is a decent outfielder at a decent price.”

    thats a real good player….and still a bargain for what they paid him
    ————————-

    How do you know that the KC Melky wasn’t PED propelled?

    Consider that prior to joining the Royals he was so bad with Atlanta that he was on the verge of being out of baseball…then he bounces back to what we saw with the Royals?

  68. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:55 am

    “blake, I love JUps too, but if you saw Sanchez hit live, you would not do that deal. Seriously. Especially considering the viability of his remaining behind the plate. Too premium a position, and comparable to him in the org.”

    do we really know if the Yankees will let him catch though? Sanchez is great but he’s not progressed offensively like Montero did either so far…..he might blow up this year but there is still a fairly low chance that he every is as good as Upton is offensiely…..yes he’s young…..but Upton was in the big leagues at 19 and OPS’ing over .800 at age 20…..

  69. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Too bad you don’t know how long he’s been using and you also don’t know what pitchers he’s facing are using, therefore you are “out of your text”, to quote a famous veiled lady.

    It is complete fantasy that a switch hitter can put up .300 plus from BOTH sides of the plate for two straight years because he took testosterone. The issue here is that he’s been viewed by the Yankees and by some in the fanbase as a “fourth OF” which has always been a big undersell. and people who cannot recognize a nascent talented hitter usually buy into mainstream consensus; they don’t see the signs that one day the guy is going to be able to hit, so when he does, they are stunned and must find a way to justify something that they think wasn’t possible. Testosterone use provides what’s needed for the ‘logical fallacy’.

  70. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    Yes, Adams is a very good contact hitter who knows how to go with the pitch and who always has a very professional AB. He also has solid splits; a rarity on our team.

  71. Against All Odds January 16th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    How do you know that the KC Melky wasn’t PED propelled?

    ———————-

    That’s a good point.

  72. blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    “How do you know that the KC Melky wasn’t PED propelled?”

    you think he’s gonna lose it all over night even if he was? Could have easily been that he came into his prime age also….Melky was a decent player with the Yankees too

  73. blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Jim Duquette ?@Jim_Duquette
    My top 5 bounce back candidates from yesterday’s show: 5. Teix 4. McCann. 3. Romero/Lincecum. 2. Crawford. 1. JUpton. Lets hear yours!

  74. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:02 am

    lol, how do you know anyone isn’t PED-aided? According to some many mlb players are using. Why aren’t they having the success that Melky is?

  75. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    “Yes Brian I do want a dynasty. However I can keep all my prospects and then just sign Robinson next year because I can spend money and you can’t. ”

    you don’t know if I can or not Mike and what about 2013? Flags fly forever big guy
    ——————-

    I’ve already improved my team enough to challenge for a championship Brian. And you’re right, I don’t know what you can offer Cano. What I do know is that I have plenty of money to spend and unlike you, I didn’t publicly embarrass him or his agent when they wanted to talk extension two years ago. In fact, his agent and I have a pretty good relationship…I’ll take my chances.

  76. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    “Melky was a decent player with the Yankees too”
    _____
    It is convenient for the narrative to forget this, and that he was a switch hitting, young, evolving player with the Yankees (who was rushed to the majors). If you watched his AB’s, you know he would hit and hit well eventually. Kid always had bat speed and could hit curveballs. Sometimes he was just too aggressive, but you could see him progressively making the adjustments.

  77. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:02 am

    lol, how do you know anyone isn’t PED-aided? According to some many mlb players are using. Why aren’t they having the success that Melky is?
    ——————-

    Maybe it’s cynical, but I tend to assume all players are doing something. The players who are average today might not even be major leaguers if not for the aid of a syringe.

  78. blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    “I’ve already improved my team enough to challenge for a championship Brian. And you’re right, I don’t know what you can offer Cano. ”

    then you don’t need Robbie…..call me back when you want to get serious about one of the best players in the game ;)

  79. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    do we really know if the Yankees will let him catch though? Sanchez is great but he’s not progressed offensively like Montero did either so far…..he might blow up this year but there is still a fairly low chance that he every is as good as Upton is offensiely…..yes he’s young…..but Upton was in the big leagues at 19 and OPS’ing over .800 at age 20…..
    ///

    Let’s give him some more time to progress, shall we? He has more “athleticism” in his lower body than does Montero (doesn’t have the hands, I’ll grant you), and he has genuine power and terrific bat speed. If they don’t “let him catch” or think that what he potentially brings is expendable, well that’s their misfortune. I would not, under almost any circumstances, make Sanchez available. Not even for Upton.

  80. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    I would trade Sanchez, and I saw him in a game at tampa! He is coming along slower than Montero, strikes out quite a bit, and does not hit for as much average. Montero crushed the lower minors, but Sanchez is going to have to repeat A+ most likely, after already repeating Low A. I love all the promise he brings, but he isn’t a sure keeper like I felt Montero was.

    And I don’t think there is a prospect we have right now where I wouldn’t put them in the right deal.

  81. blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Melky was 23 and 24 years old when he was with the Yankees…..people like to suggest that he was a finished product then that magically got better because of steroids…..and they may have helped…..but so did maturing and reaching his prime age. He was 26 with KC and 27 last year.

  82. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Melky was 23 and 24 years old when he was with the Yankees…..people like to suggest that he was a finished product then that magically got better because of steroids…..and they may have helped…..but so did maturing and reaching his prime age. He was 26 with KC and 27 last year.
    ————-

    26 and 27 and on steroids….

  83. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Blake,

    again, if steroids don’t help players like Melky play better then why do players use them?

  84. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:12 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    “Melky was a decent player with the Yankees too”
    _____
    It is convenient for the narrative to forget this, and that he was a switch hitting, young, evolving player with the Yankees (who was rushed to the majors). If you watched his AB’s, you know he would hit and hit well eventually. Kid always had bat speed and could hit curveballs. Sometimes he was just too aggressive, but you could see him progressively making the adjustments.
    //

    His problem as been over-contacting without discrimination. He’s like Cano, going after pitches he could put in play; the ones that he did so on that were low percentage dragged down his BA and kept his OBP low. What he has learned is to lay off the ones he can’t do much with, and he really does not go after the high and tight pitch that made him comically get himself out when he was younger.

    The switch-hitter thing is also underappreciated; I hope they have patience with Almonte’s right-handed swing (which I haven’t seen much of). Of course, patience alone is not going to guarantee anything, but the lack of it might create a career platoon hitter.

  85. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:13 am

    That proposed package for Robinson Cano is an infuriating insult. That writer/analyst sounds like a quack.

    First off, take out Morse from the package. He dilutes the talent coming our way and he’s just not that good. He does not belong in a Robinson Cano package. Cano competes for MVP’s. Ridiculous.

    What, is Rizzo assuming the Yankees can’t re-sign Cano within the negotiating window? Does he have the audacity to imagine the Yankees would even let Cano reach free agency? I think that writer/analyst quack job assumes the Yankees are destined to lose Cano for nothing.

    Not so fast, buddy.

    I want Gio and Rendon. If the Nats want something more of a long-term guarantee, I add Nova to the package.

  86. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    “I’ve already improved my team enough to challenge for a championship Brian. And you’re right, I don’t know what you can offer Cano. ”

    then you don’t need Robbie…..call me back when you want to get serious about one of the best players in the game
    —–

    Ok, good luck selling your fans on the fact that the 38th pick in the draft is going to do more to help your team than a closer and switch hitting 2b. Incidentally, you still get that draft pick by giving Morse a qualifying offer. New York is a pretty understanding market, they’ll be fine with that.

  87. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:00 am
    Jim Duquette ?@Jim_Duquette
    My top 5 bounce back candidates from yesterday’s show: 5. Teix 4. McCann. 3. Romero/Lincecum. 2. Crawford. 1. JUpton. Lets hear yours!
    ————————————————————–

    A bounce back year from Tex would be fantastic… not very confident in it though looking at how he’s been trending for multiple years now.

  88. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Blake,

    again, if steroids don’t help players like Melky play better then why do players use them?
    ///

    My guess is that Melky used primarily to lose weight. He’s Dominican, and has had trouble shedding the “chunky” effect all those beans and rice cause. He did change his diet, reluctantly, but he’s what Ayurvedic medicine identifies as “kapha” in constitution; these folks put weight on easily. The drug likely has allowed him to become more sinewy. It has not created his hit tool; that is preposterous.

  89. PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:08 am
    Melky was 23 and 24 years old when he was with the Yankees…..people like to suggest that he was a finished product then that magically got better because of steroids…..and they may have helped…..but so did maturing and reaching his prime age. He was 26 with KC and 27 last year.
    ——————————

    Indeed. We forget he was very young when he cam up in NY (20 when he had that brief call up in 2005).

    I agree that the KC version could have been PED influenced, but I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. Actually, now that I look at his stats, I would say that his .800 ops in KC is perhaps a likely level we could expect (that was good for a 121 OPS+). He was also a 4+ WAR player in KC. So perhaps we should expect more like a KC version of Melky rather than the player I described above as midway between KC and SF.

    That is indeed a quality player signed to an affordable contract that would look a lot better in the OF than Ichiro, as much as I love to watch Ichiro (I have low expectations for him and I think the 2014 version of Ichiro will be a disaster)

  90. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    The Yankees avoidance of the best bargain on the market (Melky Cabrera) tells you everything you need to know about their long term plans for Robinson Cano.

    Get real.

  91. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Here’s a scary thought: Cano, Alex and Melky worked out every winter – two of those three have been busted for steroid use. If the Yankees give Cano an 8 year contract, are they giving it to someone who found talent in a needle?

  92. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    blake, indications are Sanchez has a good shot at catching, but we shall see. I don’t want to take the risk and trade him, and see that he ends up catching with that kind of bat. As for not being Montero in terms of his O stats, few are, but Sanchez is still a very special bat, and I wouldn’t underrate his moving from A to A+ from July to August, and hitting without missing a beat at .309/.343/.433 in Tampa in August/Sept. The kid has now power, will hopefully play at a premium position, and that bat/position combo and hvaing few players in the org that can compare to him speaks to keeping him.

  93. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    *having few players

  94. blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    “Let’s give him some more time to progress, shall we? He has more “athleticism” in his lower body than does Montero (doesn’t have the hands, I’ll grant you), and he has genuine power and terrific bat speed. ”

    sure…..I’m just talking about in the context of a trade for Upton….

  95. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Blake,

    again, if steroids don’t help players like Melky play better then why do players use them?
    ///

    My guess is that Melky used primarily to lose weight. He’s Dominican, and has had trouble shedding the “chunky” effect all those beans and rice cause. He did change his diet, reluctantly, but he’s what Ayurvedic medicine identifies as “kapha” in constitution; these folks put weight on easily. The drug likely has allowed him to become more sinewy. It has not created his hit tool; that is preposterous.
    —————

    If he wanted to lose weight he would have taken diet pills. Testosterone allows him to work out and convert the fat to muscle. Muscle = power.

    Look, if you can’t identify a pitch steroids aren’t going to help with that. If you can (which Melky could) then what they’re going to do is improve the results when you make contact.

  96. blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    “again, if steroids don’t help players like Melky play better then why do players use them?”

    didn’t say they didn’t help him….just doubt he’ll turn into a scrub without them too…..if Steroids made anybody a batting champ then I’d go buy me some tomorrow ;)

  97. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Maybe it’s cynical, but I tend to assume all players are doing something. The players who are average today might not even be major leaguers if not for the aid of a syringe.
    ///

    Not very logical, Chip. If they arer “all doing something”, against whom does Cabrera have some unfair “advantage”?

  98. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    No, Cano’s 2012 swing is identical to the one I saw in spring training in like 2005. It has always been a sweet swing justifiably evoking comparisons to Rod Carew’s. That’s what makes him a great hitter.

  99. Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    I would trade Sanchez, and I saw him in a game at tampa! He is coming along slower than Montero, strikes out quite a bit, and does not hit for as much average. Montero crushed the lower minors, but Sanchez is going to have to repeat A+ most likely, after already repeating Low A. I love all the promise he brings, but he isn’t a sure keeper like I felt Montero was.

    And I don’t think there is a prospect we have right now where I wouldn’t put them in the right deal.

    ________________________________________________

    You have to remember Sanchez just turned 20. He struggled in High A, but came on very strong in the 2nd half. Yes, Montero was more advanced at that age, but Sanchez is more athletic and better defensively than Montero was then too. I would NOT trade Sanchez just yet. Let him continue to develop. After this season, we’ll have a better idea of his future potential. Would also help in JR Murphy would rebound this year. He made tremendous strides defensively, but his offense was disappointing last year, and that was suppodely his calling card. he needs to get back on track this year.

  100. blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    “Ok, good luck selling your fans on the fact that the 38th pick in the draft is going to do more to help your team than a closer and switch hitting 2b. Incidentally, you still get that draft pick by giving Morse a qualifying offer. New York is a pretty understanding market, they’ll be fine with that.”

    I’ll keep him and try to sign him…..or trade him to somebody that’ll give me fair value

  101. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    I would include Gary Sanchez in a deal where part of the return is a catcher like Carlos Santana or Miguel Montero.

  102. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    If he wanted to lose weight he would have taken diet pills. Testosterone allows him to work out and convert the fat to muscle. Muscle = power.
    ///

    Well exactly, he wanted to get rid of the fat and be more muscular. Getting into better shape is not going to miraculously transform a bat. The bat was always there, it just escaped your notice.

  103. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    With sports today, I’m not surprised anymore if somebody took PEDs at one time. Cano’s swing is as good as it gets in baseball today. There’s no proof that he took them so I’m going to presume he didn’t but I think he’d be a fantastic hitter regardless.

  104. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    I would include Gary Sanchez in a deal where part of the return is a catcher like Carlos Santana or Miguel Montero.
    ///

    Just curious “Fire”, what do YOU think of Melky Cabrera? Do you have an opinion of him? :D

  105. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock see my post at 10:17 AM

  106. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    Its not just that Montero was ‘advanced’, he was elite.

    .356 .406 .583 .989 in A+ at the same age as Sanchez followed by .317 .370 .539 .909 in AA at the same age as Sanchez.

    Gary split between low A: .297 .353 .517 .870
    & High A: .279 .330 .436 .766

    I would trade him for a position player talent like Upton, and definitely send him packing for a quality guy like Stanton.

  107. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Maybe it’s cynical, but I tend to assume all players are doing something. The players who are average today might not even be major leaguers if not for the aid of a syringe.
    ///

    Not very logical, Chip. If they arer “all doing something”, against whom does Cabrera have some unfair “advantage”?
    ————

    It’s not an unfair advantage. The idea is that the drugs improve the efficacy of Cabrera’s impact when bat meets ball.

    Cabrera was a contact hitter, the issue was that when he made contact the ball didn’t do much. With steroids he’s gotten more powerful and so now the ball does more when he makes contact. That’s where they improve his performance.

  108. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    With sports today, I’m not surprised anymore if somebody took PEDs at one time. Cano’s swing is as good as it gets in baseball today. There’s no proof that he took them so I’m going to presume he didn’t but I think he’d be a fantastic hitter regardless.
    ///

    The Giants players all marveled about how identical Cabrera’s left and righty swing are. I think he’s a little more prone to a little scooping and lengthening on the left side, but it’s subtle and I have to say he does look like a mirror image of himself from both sides the past two seasons. That has nothing to do with a drug; that’s just sound hitting mechanics.

  109. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    If he wanted to lose weight he would have taken diet pills. Testosterone allows him to work out and convert the fat to muscle. Muscle = power.
    ///

    Well exactly, he wanted to get rid of the fat and be more muscular. Getting into better shape is not going to miraculously transform a bat. The bat was always there, it just escaped your notice.
    ————

    The eye was always there – not the bat.

  110. Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 10:24 am
    Its not just that Montero was ‘advanced’, he was elite.

    .356 .406 .583 .989 in A+ at the same age as Sanchez followed by .317 .370 .539 .909 in AA at the same age as Sanchez.

    Gary split between low A: .297 .353 .517 .870
    & High A: .279 .330 .436 .766

    I would trade him for a position player talent like Upton, and definitely send him packing for a quality guy like Stanton.
    _____________________________________

    Stanton yes. Upton, NO! I’m just not sold on Upton to the point where I’d give up an elite package for him.

  111. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    “Ok, good luck selling your fans on the fact that the 38th pick in the draft is going to do more to help your team than a closer and switch hitting 2b. Incidentally, you still get that draft pick by giving Morse a qualifying offer. New York is a pretty understanding market, they’ll be fine with that.”

    I’ll keep him and try to sign him…..or trade him to somebody that’ll give me fair value
    —————

    No one is going to offer you more than I am for a high profile Boras client entering free agency. And if you want to keep him, well you can try, but I’m going to come after him and my team doesn’t have payroll restrictions and I have a better working relationship with his agent than you do. It’s your call, but it is a risky bet. I’m right now offering you a slugger, your future closer and a starting 2b who you can have for a few years. You’re betting all of that against a draft pick…so like I said, good luck.

  112. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    It’s not an unfair advantage. The idea is that the drugs improve the efficacy of Cabrera’s impact when bat meets ball.

    Cabrera was a contact hitter, the issue was that when he made contact the ball didn’t do much. With steroids he’s gotten more powerful and so now the ball does more when he makes contact. That’s where they improve his performance.
    ////

    I guess he was using in 2009, eh? He started to show more power and started driving the ball from the right side. I’m sure his recovery time was enhanced, but he showed signs he probably would eventually hit for more power, given his wide base and low center of gravity, his bat speed and his contact ability. Those things were all predictable, and predicted. You have a bit of trouble accepting that Melky Cabrera is a good hitter whom the Yankees gave up on too soon.

  113. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    I’m not sure that testosterone converts fat to muscle. I think it helps build lean muscle mass which in turn burns fat. The more LBM you have, the faster you burn energy and thus shed fat. That’s what happened with Melky Cabrera. He added lean muscle mass which helped him burn fat. I do think his swing is that of a .300 hitter. But like I said, the Yankees are prepared to marry Robinson Cano. That’s the only explanation for their cold shoulder to the best bargain on the market (and this was an ugly market at best). That’s how I read the tea leaves anyways…

  114. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 10:07 am
    I would trade Sanchez, and I saw him in a game at tampa! He is coming along slower than Montero, strikes out quite a bit, and does not hit for as much average. Montero crushed the lower minors, but Sanchez is going to have to repeat A+ most likely, after already repeating Low A. I love all the promise he brings, but he isn’t a sure keeper like I felt Montero was.

    And I don’t think there is a prospect we have right now where I wouldn’t put them in the right deal.
    _____
    The right deal isn’t trading your best COF, a top CF, a mlb pitcher, a 3B in Adams AND Sanchez for JUp, no matter how much I’d love to have him. As for repeating A+ in 2013, Sanchez is there for his D. After coming over in July, he has made the necessary adjustments, so I wouldn’t put it as you did that he “had to repeat” A+; it is a choice the Yankees are making. Nor would I put too much weight on that. He could easily be in AA if they wanted to give him a spot there. As for the power numbers, they have him shortening up his swing when he has two strikes on him, so that is affecting his power numbers and will help him to cut down on K’s. As for his value, IF he catches for the Yankees and hits the way he hits, his value only increases. Not sure what you saw but the kid has now power. He isn’t Montero, but he is a special bat.

  115. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Melky always had the bat. He was crushing AAA before he was finally called up for good. Guys take a windy road through the majors. There were months where everything clicked for Melky on the Yankees and he looked like a young bernie williams. An .800+ OPS is not something I’d be suspicious of or surprised at.

  116. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Chip, since when is Cano “entering free agency”. GM’s have to be stupid to think the Yankees would let him slip past the exclusive negotiating window.

  117. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    When Cabrera was busted Michael Kay had Cashman on to talk about that (and other things). Cashman’s comments on Melky were that he wasn’t at all surprised. That the Yankees had him rated as a top notch fourth outfielder or a low end starter but not the all-star he had been the last two years.

    Now, you can think what you want about the Yankees ability to self scout; but it is not up for debate that Melky was so bad with Atlanta that his season in KC was probably his last chance to salvage a major league career for himself.

    So please, let us stop talking about Melky as if he was the second coming of Bernie Williams. Whatever you think about the Yankees talent evaluation, the Braves have been fantastic in that regard and even they didn’t see enough in Melky to keep him beyond the one season.

  118. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    The right deal isn’t trading your best COF, a top CF, a mlb pitcher, a 3B in Adams AND Sanchez for JUp

    The deal proposed was 2 of Sanchez, Austin, Heathcott, Williams / Phelps or Nova / Second Tier guy. I think you misunderstood that.

    I’d trade 2 out of that group.

  119. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Chip, since when is Cano “entering free agency”. GM’s have to be stupid to think the Yankees would let him slip past the exclusive negotiating window.
    ——————–

    You don’t hire Scott Boras as your agent unless you want to test the free agent market.

  120. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Chip, explain how the ball didn’t “do much” when Melky hit it; he has been around a 20% LD for most of his career.

  121. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Oh, so now you’re inside Robinson Cano’s head Chip and you know that if the Yankees offer him 8 years at 23 per year, he would snub them and test the market?

    Get real.

  122. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    The eye was always there – not the bat.
    ///

    That is just silly, Chip. They asked Don Mattingly what his take was on Cabrera’s success, whether he was surprised by it. This was after he got busted, incidentally, so Mattingly easily could have indicted his talent in some way. He said he was not the least surprised, he always thought he was going to hit. George Brett wasn’t too familiar with him when KC got him, but he was duly impressed with him as a hitter, said he had “no idea” how good his bat was. Cano called him a “great hitter” just a few years ago. A minor league coach predicted he’d one day win a batting title. Alex Rodriguez “begged” the Yankees to re-sign him.

    IOW, there are those who saw it coming early in his career, and others, every one of them exceptional hitters themselves, who understand sound hitting mechanics and natural ability when they see it, who have lauded where he has got to.

  123. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    As for repeating A+ in 2013, Sanchez is there for his D. After coming over in July, he has made the necessary adjustments, so I wouldn’t put it as you did that he “had to repeat” A+; it is a choice the Yankees are making. Nor would I put too much weight on that. He could easily be in AA if they wanted to give him a spot there

    I know that he had to work on his D, but for an ‘elite prospect’ his numbers were not promotion worthy regardless. I really doubt he could be in AA on merit, sure the Yankees could put him there for no reason, but he OPS’d under .800 in 48 games in Tampa. Even if he had a very good finish, that is in a short number of games.

    He hasn’t dominated any level like Montero has.

  124. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2013 at 10:39 am

    Good morning. Late to the breakfast club. Hope all of you are well.

    Jerkface-

    I really enjoyed your post two days ago and maybe you answered this question I had later in the day but I want to repost it:

    Yankee Trader January 14th, 2013 at 10:08 am
    Jerkface-

    Enjoyed your detailed description of the new CBA agreement.

    ” If the Yankees did not go over the luxury tax limit for 2014, 2015 and 2016 they would receive 11.65% of their revenue sharing back in 2014, 17.47% in 2015, and 23.3% in 2016.”

    This is if Oakland is approved for a new stadium in 2014.

    What might this roughly mean in dollars each of those 3 years, to give me a better idea if it’s likely the Steinbrenner’s will be inclined to just reset the LT to 17.5% by staying under in 2014, or go for the maximum returns by complying for all three years?

    Thanks JF for your valued input.

  125. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Melky always had the bat. He was crushing AAA before he was finally called up for good.

    ——————–

    31 games??? As a guy as into statistical metrics as you are you would think you would be less inclined to use such a small sample size to make your point.

  126. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    JF, I know. It should have read top COF OR CF prospect. As per my original statement: “Putting Sanchez in a deal with Austin, one of Mason, Heathcott and a pitcher plus Cojo or Adams is an overpay. If Cash included Sanchez, then I would be sorely disappointed in him.”

    Still wouldn’t include Sanchez.

  127. PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 10:41 am

    Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Stanton yes. Upton, NO! I’m just not sold on Upton to the point where I’d give up an elite package for him.
    ————————–

    The reason I would trade a lot of talent for Upton is that that talent rarely turns into anything approaching what Upton is already as a player. Look at the guys that the team absolutely would not trade, like Joba and Hughes. How are they doing? What about Montero – elite prospect that could still be a huge player (he would still be a young rookie had he not played last season), but he could also be a huge failure.

  128. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 10:41 am

    So how much longer is it till P and C’s report and we can get some real baseball ?

    I’m ready.

    :)

  129. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:41 am

    I can tell you all this right now (listen up Chip especially) and you can mark my words. The Yankees have a contract written up for Cano right now. In fact they probably have a series of contracts they can lay out in succession as the negotiation process progresses and matures. The only thing missing is a signature. The rest is hype. We are the richest franchise in the history of sports. Get it through your thick heads.

    The Yankees will handle Cano the same way they handled CC. Notice Sabathia was not allowed to slip past the negotiating window and reach free agency.

    Bottom line.

  130. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Montero will turn 30 next season. I ain’t trading a young, promising, cheap\$$$ player, for some old beat-up palooka.
    I thought Francona’s descripion of what was occuring in Boston, (prior to his departure), is Exactly what we got going currently with the Yankees. NO Intense rapture for The Game outta ownership, and basically grown people with their toys, and looking to make a buck at the same time.
    Still can Not figure out why Fox did Not allow the QB that his Boss paid all that $$$ to, to go for the tieing fieldgoal, with :29 seconds remaining and 2 timeouts in his back pocket. Man should be in the unemployment line. I’m talking about the owner. It’s like loaning your Vette to someone and they run it up a pole. Not to mention the ardent fan base in Colorado deserve better.
    Amish Mafia continues to be the absolute Best sitcom on TV. Love it when Levi yells at John, and his voice jumps up 2 octaves. Reminds me of Lou Pinella.

  131. PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:34 am
    So please, let us stop talking about Melky as if he was the second coming of Bernie Williams. Whatever you think about the Yankees talent evaluation, the Braves have been fantastic in that regard and even they didn’t see enough in Melky to keep him beyond the one season
    ———————

    Agreed – I am glad Chip said it – everyone seems to think that there is no doubt that Melky was a great player only marginally improved by PEDs. He was a horrendous player in Atlanta (something like last in MLB in WAR, or close to last) and he rapidly emerged as a quality talent.

  132. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    :oops: So, to clarify Sanchez, Austin, Nova, Adams for JUP, I wouldn’t do unless you took out Sanchez, added in one of the CF’s should read. (Need more green tea.)

  133. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Blake, Chip, All-

    Now that the Nats have spent more money on Soriano, I wonder if they want low cost prospect/prospects in return for Morse and jettisoning his 6.75M contract, rather than having arb eligible lefty Boone Logan included in any deal?

  134. There Will Never Be Another Mo January 16th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Nice post. Favorite of the pinch hitters so far.

  135. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Miguel Montero is a top 5 catcher in the game. He turns 33 in the final year of his deal. What was Posada doing at age 33? Raking.

  136. Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 10:44 am

    PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 10:41 am
    Tackelberry January 16th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Stanton yes. Upton, NO! I’m just not sold on Upton to the point where I’d give up an elite package for him.
    ————————–

    The reason I would trade a lot of talent for Upton is that that talent rarely turns into anything approaching what Upton is already as a player. Look at the guys that the team absolutely would not trade, like Joba and Hughes. How are they doing? What about Montero – elite prospect that could still be a huge player (he would still be a young rookie had he not played last season), but he could also be a huge failure.

    ______________________________________

    Upton could also be a huge failure in NY. Remember Ruppert Jones?

  137. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Chip, the defense of Melky is in response to your dismissal of him. So, don’t make the conversation what it was not. No one is “glorifying” Melky, as much as you are deriding his achievements out of hand.

  138. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Oh, so now you’re inside Robinson Cano’s head Chip and you know that if the Yankees offer him 8 years at 23 per year, he would snub them and test the market?

    Get real.
    ————————-

    If the Yankees offered it Cano would probably take it, but the Yankees won’t offer it. That’s Boras’s starting spot, an 8-10 year deal in the $23 – $25/year range. Yankees aren’t going to jump at it, they’re going to want to negotiate it and Boras isn’t going to engage them until after the market opens and he can get other teams involved and create a bidding war for his client.

    That’s what Boras does, it’s what he’s always done it is what he will always do. I can only think of two Boras guys who have signed without testing FA…Pudge Rodriguez who signed with Texas to avoid being traded to the Yankees and Jared Weaver who signed his extension with the Angels.

  139. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    He added lean muscle mass which helped him burn fat. I do think his swing is that of a .300 hitter.
    ///

    I agree, “Fire”. Melky has had “hitman” written all over him since Staten Island. Those switchies just take a little longer, that’s all :)

  140. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    You stack Every backstop up to Posada, and your gonna come out on the short end. Montero is old, looks old, and that’s all I can think of that goes with old.

  141. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    “Look at the guys that the team absolutely would not trade, like Joba and Hughes. How are they doing? ”

    And what is the damage/the consequences of not trading these two? I’m not getting your point. And Hughes was a pretty darn good starter/valuable to us in 2012.

  142. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    Now Chip you’re in the Yankees heads I see and you assume they won’t offer him whatever it takes, or just enough, to sway him from testing the market. Get real. They will use the same tactic they used with CC Sabathia. Period end of story brother.

  143. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:49 am

    Sure thing Donny, Miguel Montero is old at 29 and Posada was young at 38. Miguel Montero is a top 5 catcher Donny.

  144. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    The Diamonbacks were getting back one of the Mariners three top pitching prospects, a young reliever who had just made it to the bigs, Furbush, and a SS/2B who excelled at AA- did fair when promoted to AAA.

    If the DBacks want mainly a top 5 pitching prospect, two major league ready relievers and a AAA SS, then the Yankees don’t have a match for Upton.

    Those names thrown out would be a match for the Marlins Stanton, as they need just about everything.

  145. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Chip, the defense of Melky is in response to your dismissal of him. So, don’t make the conversation what it was not. No one is “glorifying” Melky, as much as you are deriding his achievements out of hand.
    —————–

    I don’t think Melky’s a bad player, I think he’s an average player. I think expecting him to be the player he was for KC or San Francisco is silly.

    More likely he’s what he was with the Yankees which is a nice, average ball player. But the Yankees traded that player away because they viewed him as a tweener and an immature one at that.

    The fact that his production increased after juicing doesn’t change either of those two things. The fact that he tried to cover up his steroid use with that website nonsense and then ran away from his team without talking to his teammates actually makes him look less mature than the Yankees feared when they unloaded him to get him away from Cano.

  146. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    Now Chip you’re in the Yankees heads I see and you assume they won’t offer him whatever it takes, or just enough, to sway him from testing the market. Get real. They will use the same tactic they used with CC Sabathia. Period end of story brother.
    ———————

    Whatever you say internet tough guy.

  147. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:34 am
    So please, let us stop talking about Melky as if he was the second coming of Bernie Williams. Whatever you think about the Yankees talent evaluation, the Braves have been fantastic in that regard and even they didn’t see enough in Melky to keep him beyond the one season
    ———————

    Agreed – I am glad Chip said it – everyone seems to think that there is no doubt that Melky was a great player only marginally improved by PEDs. He was a horrendous player in Atlanta (something like last in MLB in WAR, or close to last) and he rapidly emerged as a quality talent.
    ////

    Well, all I can say is I have gone on record across Yankee boards on the net that Cabrera would one day hit .300 (I said it back in 2008 or 2009, but I’ve been impressed with his hitting since Staten Island) and that his true ability hovered around that mark.

    I also predicted he’d have a “breakout” year in 2010, but I was a year too early. 2010 is the anomaly, as the last two years have proven.

  148. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Barry – great job! I think you hit every nail right on the head. I think there is sometimes a lack of holistic thinking when it comes to fandom, and that’s really what’s needed most when panic starts to creep in, as creep in here it has.

    The Mayans said the sky was falling in too, and how did that turn out?

    :)

    Thanks for bringing very good perspective.

  149. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Ok then Chip who are the Yankees going to build this team around if not Cano? Thought so.

  150. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    So who are we gonna get if we don’t get Hairston or Rivera ?

    Would we dare to try another rookie as our 4th OF’er ?

    P.S. Even I’m getting tired of talking about JU

  151. Hassey January 16th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    How long might it take for someone named Barry Millman to really pinch hit for the Yankees?

  152. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Ok then Chip who are the Yankees going to build this team around if not Cano? Thought so.
    —————–

    I’m not saying the Yankees won’t re-sign him. I’m just saying that he will have other offers.

    I also don’t know that giving Cano at 31 an 8 year deal is all that smart.

  153. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    31 games??? As a guy as into statistical metrics as you are you would think you would be less inclined to use such a small sample size to make your point.

    Most ~21 year olds don’t OPS over .900 for 30 games in the IL. And really ,it comes down to using everything out there to make the point. You are seemingly dismissing Mattingly’s opinion, scouts opinion, and major league performance.

    Well he kind of hit real good as a youngster in AAA. Then hit .280 in essentially his rookie season, which is pretty nice. I’d say that is evidence enough of the bat.

  154. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Chip, Melky’s LD% and BABIP indicate otherwise. Also, you are totally disregarding two things: 1.) eye test progress if you have watched him play since 2005, you would have been seeing the progress made in terms of AB’s, and 2.) his age, and the probability that he would improve, make adjustments considering his talent and youth/being rushed to the majors. Further, you keep mentioning KC and SF, but how do you know Melky hasn’t been juicing since his mlb inception? Then how would you explain his progress?

  155. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Cano = Yankee for life Chip. The rest is just engineered to sell newspapers. Witchcraft. Voodoo dolls.

  156. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 10:57 am

    MTU -

    If they pass on Hairston and Rivera they could always go with a bench of: Nunez, Stewart, Nix, Canzler.

  157. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 16th, 2013 at 10:57 am

    By the way, I think the Nats got exponentially that much more dangerous in the last two days – or whenever it was they brought Sori aboard. Anyone out of the Bronxian spotlight/automatic booing factory has a chance at being that much better. Of course, they would have had to stay around enough to have felt the pressure and the joy of being booed! A cup of coffee or two doesn’t really count.

  158. chicken little January 16th, 2013 at 10:58 am

    Mark Texeira must be really happy. His arch nemesis Vicente Padilla signed in Japan.

  159. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    ARod probably in the pre-op or OR by now. I’ll be interested if the surgery to repair the labrum, excise the cyst, involves resurfacing the head of the left femur.

    Having stayed at a HIE last night, if the surgeon has to do all of the above, I’d be surprised if he can play at 100% at all this season, and if he can, might he just be relegated to DH?

  160. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Jerkface-

    Enjoyed your detailed description of the new CBA agreement.

    ” If the Yankees did not go over the luxury tax limit for 2014, 2015 and 2016 they would receive 11.65% of their revenue sharing back in 2014, 17.47% in 2015, and 23.3% in 2016.”

    This is if Oakland is approved for a new stadium in 2014.

    What might this roughly mean in dollars each of those 3 years, to give me a better idea if it’s likely the Steinbrenner’s will be inclined to just reset the LT to 17.5% by staying under in 2014, or go for the maximum returns by complying for all three years?

    Thanks JF for your valued input.

    Well generally the team pays around 100 million in revenue sharing. So over 3 years they’d get 50 million total.

  161. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Chip, Melky’s LD% and BABIP indicate otherwise. Also, you are totally disregarding two things: 1.) eye test progress if you have watched him play since 2005, you would have been seeing the progress made in terms of AB’s, and 2.) his age, and the probability that he would improve, make adjustments considering his talent and youth/being rushed to the majors. Further, you keep mentioning KC and SF, but how do you know Melky hasn’t been juicing since his mlb inception? Then how would you explain his progress?
    ———————

    Your first point is factually incorrect. Melky’s progression wasn’t linear once he got to the majors. In fact in 2008 – after being a regular for 2 years – he was so bad that he was sent back to the minors for a time.

    As for his steroid use, well let’s use your own eye test. Find pictures of Melky with the Yankees and Braves and then pictures of him with the Giants. You’re looking at a leaner, more muscular player than he was early in his career.

  162. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    YT, that’s right. Say a prayer for Alex and his recovery.

  163. PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:56 am
    Cano = Yankee for life Chip. The rest is just engineered to sell newspapers. Witchcraft. Voodoo dolls.
    ———————————

    If they do not sign Cano it will be a real shift in their approach to their own internal FAs. They have always been willing to do what it takes to sign their own top FAs (and I do not include this years guys in that camp). Whether it be Bernie, Jorge, Jeter, CC or even A-Rod. The point it, they have spent the money to retain their best talent. This is what has separated them from teams like Boston at one end of the spectrum and the likes of Tampa at the other.

    My hope is that they can combine a good farm system with a willingness to resign your best FAs to produce a hybrid of the Yankees approach with the Tampa approach.

  164. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    “No one is going to offer you more than I am for a high profile Boras client entering free agency.”

    then I’ll keep him

  165. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    JF-

    If you have a chance, look at my 10:39 post today, taken from your excellent review, two days ago.

    Do you have a rough guestimate on dollars?

  166. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Thanks JF, I just saw your response.

  167. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 10:26 am
    Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    With sports today, I’m not surprised anymore if somebody took PEDs at one time. Cano’s swing is as good as it gets in baseball today. There’s no proof that he took them so I’m going to presume he didn’t but I think he’d be a fantastic hitter regardless.
    ///

    The Giants players all marveled about how identical Cabrera’s left and righty swing are. I think he’s a little more prone to a little scooping and lengthening on the left side, but it’s subtle and I have to say he does look like a mirror image of himself from both sides the past two seasons. That has nothing to do with a drug; that’s just sound hitting mechanics.
    ———————————————————

    Melky has always had a lot of potential at the plate and has had some really nice moments on the Yanks. Testosterone helps in muscle recuperation which can enhance offseason workout programs. I think Melky’s huge spike in results was a result of his offseason preparation which probably resulted because he had absolutely no choice after being dropped by Atlanta. He’s always had the talent but getting in shape did wonders for him (like it does most). Testosterone definitely could have played a role in that too.

  168. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    With me, that kinda $$$ is reserved for Yankee Leaders\Legends. Cano showed his mettle vs Detroit when Jeet went down.

  169. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    I look at it like this.. a guy with zero baseball talent can’t take testosterone or other PEDs and be a great baseball player. Melky’s got a good bat and likely will be really good for the Jays this year. I don’t think the Yanks were so turned off by the dollars/years as they were any PR stuff (although I think Yanks fans would have accepted him with open arms) and the fact that they didn’t seem to be overly fond of Melky in the first place…

  170. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Chip, are you being semantical? Perhaps Melky as a rushed 23 year old progressed by being sent down and being able to work on his hit tool? As for the eye test, that was about his AB’s not his body weight/mass. He hit fine as a pudgy kid as well, that correlation is a little weak and simplistic. He isn’t an average hit with or without roids. Cano and others predicted years ago that Melky would one day win a batting title. And his milb numbers have translated. But say his results are solely a result of PEDs. I am not buying it.

  171. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    Melky Not only did the deed, but the guy attempted to bury the body. NO WAY I grace this guy with pinstripes.

  172. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    Right, you can say Melky was in better shape and perhaps recovered better as a result of PEDS, but to say he has become the hitter he is today because of PEDS is a facile argument.

  173. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:13 am

    Chip,

    as I’ve said…..I think 2013 may be the Yanks best shot at winning a title for a few years…..so I’m simply not trading a potential 8 win player like Cano unless it really has a chance to improve the future….and not kill the present. The deal you proposed didn’t do that for me……I’m need to get a lot to trade him. JMO

  174. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:15 am

    If Towers called up and said…..ok i’m ready to deal. Give me Sanchez, Austin, Nova, and Adams and I’ll send you Justin Upton on over……I’d probably grit my teeth and make that trade. I know others wouldn’t but you’re not hurting the big league team in that deal significantly and you’re not giving up any impact players that have played above A ball any significant amount of time.

  175. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:12 am
    Right, you can say Melky was in better shape and perhaps recovered better as a result of PEDS, but to say he has become the hitter he is today because of PEDS is a facile argument.
    ——————————————————————–

    Yep.. the thing that stinks though is for the guy who puts in the hard work in the offseason without any PEDs, which is really my problem with it.

    But Melky is a good player. I don’t know if he’ll ever hit .340 again (but who really consistently expects that) but I think he’s a .300+ hitter.

  176. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    You have to have talent to win a batting title….not everyone who takes PEDS can wake up and hit .350…it just doesn’t work like that

  177. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:15 am
    If Towers called up and said…..ok i’m ready to deal. Give me Sanchez, Austin, Nova, and Adams and I’ll send you Justin Upton on over……I’d probably grit my teeth and make that trade. I know others wouldn’t but you’re not hurting the big league team in that deal significantly and you’re not giving up any impact players that have played above A ball any significant amount of time.
    ————————————————————————

    I’d probably do that even with the contract that it would take to sign Upton. I hope that Upton would bounce back though. He’s still young and I know he tore it up in 2011 but last season worried me a little bit. For that price, I better be getting top 5 MVP Upton and not just a plain “good” player.

  178. Ys Guy January 16th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    good post, and surprisingly well recieved….

  179. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    “For that price, I better be getting top 5 MVP Upton and not just a plain “good” player.”

    true…there is risk….there is also even more risk in prospects though.

  180. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Love you numbers guys. That all you can See. Melky has a serious character issue, but that fails to appear onna spread sheet. Your mama’s would be ashamed.

  181. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    I’d love to have Upton, but I need to take Sanchez out of that deal in order to consider it. Austin, yes, trading a COF for a COF. Slide in Heathcott or Mason, which I still would cringe at doing because I don’t like giving up the premium position CF even though we are two deep. I’d also prefer to trade Phelps to Nova. Think Phelps is more of a sure thing, but still think Nova has more upside. Again though a 4 for one is difficult to stomach. Have to hope JUps shoulder is sound.

  182. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    PacoDooley January 16th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:56 am
    Cano = Yankee for life Chip. The rest is just engineered to sell newspapers. Witchcraft. Voodoo dolls.
    ———————————

    If they do not sign Cano it will be a real shift in their approach to their own internal FAs. They have always been willing to do what it takes to sign their own top FAs (and I do not include this years guys in that camp). Whether it be Bernie, Jorge, Jeter, CC or even A-Rod. The point it, they have spent the money to retain their best talent. This is what has separated them from teams like Boston at one end of the spectrum and the likes of Tampa at the other.

    My hope is that they can combine a good farm system with a willingness to resign your best FAs to produce a hybrid of the Yankees approach with the Tampa approach.
    —————-

    I think that watching the decline of Posada and, more on point given Cano’s contract desires, Alex that the Yankees will hesitate about giving Cano the contract he wants.

    Remember, this is the organization that just told Derek Jeter to go check the market if he didn’t like the Yankee offer.

  183. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Except most in the game praise Melky’s character; probably because most of these guys know each other is using.

  184. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    “I’d love to have Upton, but I need to take Sanchez out of that deal in order to consider it. Austin, yes, trading a COF for a COF. Slide in Heathcott or Mason, which I still would cringe at doing because I don’t like giving up the premium position CF even though we are two deep. I’d also prefer to trade Phelps to Nova. Think Phelps is more of a sure thing, but still think Nova has more upside. Again though a 4 for one is difficult to stomach. Have to hope JUps shoulder is sound.”

    respect that opinion…..not gonna say you’re wrong….

  185. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Jeter wanted Melky back; I guess Derek doesn’t care about character either.

  186. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:22 am
    “For that price, I better be getting top 5 MVP Upton and not just a plain “good” player.”

    true…there is risk….there is also even more risk in prospects though.
    ————————————————————-

    Very true. Upton’s 2012 just scares me a little bit though. He’s got loads of talent and 2011 could be what he can consistently do but that risk is scary for the position the Yanks are currently in. I almost like Stanton better with how he’s trending… could just be me though.

  187. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:13 am

    Chip,

    as I’ve said…..I think 2013 may be the Yanks best shot at winning a title for a few years…..so I’m simply not trading a potential 8 win player like Cano unless it really has a chance to improve the future….and not kill the present. The deal you proposed didn’t do that for me……I’m need to get a lot to trade him. JMO
    ——————

    For what it’s worth, I didn’t propose the deal but I wouldn’t be opposed to it either.

    Espinosa isn’t Cano but that doesn’t mean he can’t be Cano. He’s a switch hitter with power and is 6 years younger than Robinson.

    Storen is a very strong relief pitcher and would likely replace Rivera should Mo retire at the end of this season.

    Morse brings a lot of power from the right side, would likely cost less to re-sign than Cano would and if not, still nets the Yankees the same draft pick by way of QO should he sign elsewhere.

    To me that doesn’t terribly diminish the 2013 club and it certainly makes the 2014 club better than they would be if Robinson leaves as a free agent; and it is better for the long term future of the club than giving Cano an 8 year contract.

  188. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    If 2014 weren’t an issue then I would be more inclined to trade Heathcott over Mason Williams. As it stands though, Heathcott is closer to the majors and more capable of stepping up in CF in place of Granderson.

    I suppose you could trade Heathcott if you’re getting back an OF but that assumes you’re promoting Gardner to an important spot while he is a liability with health issues.

  189. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Chad, any hope of getting any info after surgery today on the extent of Alex’s cartilage damage? (that was a rhetorical question, unfortunately. I know how these things go)

  190. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 11:30 am

    Jeet says nothin’ bad about nobody. I prefer the opinion of a guy that will rip someone a new A-Hole, to one of a guy that ducks questions onna daily basis.

  191. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2013 at 11:30 am

    Blake-

    Still don’t think the Diamondbacks are interested in that deal, after what they were extracting from the Mariners.

    Think more on the lines of Nova/Phelps, Robertson/Joba, Nunez, and the best minor league pitching prospect.

    Mariners were giving up two major league pitchers. one of their top 3 pitching prospects and a AAA SS.

    I’d consider your deal for Giancarlo Stanton, but don’t see a fit for Upton especially if we lose Phelps and Robertson.

  192. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:31 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Jeter wanted Melky back; I guess Derek doesn’t care about character either.
    ————-

    I remember Alex begging for Melky – I don’t recall Jeter.

    I find it amusing the absolutism that floats around in here. If you don’t think Melky is a burgeoning perennial All-Star then you must be saying he’s hot garbage…

    I think Melky’s an average player with maturity issues. There’s nothing wrong with being an average player but if you can have an average player who is a professional or an average player who is immature, I’ll take the professional.

  193. Tyler January 16th, 2013 at 11:31 am

    FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 11:29 am
    If 2014 weren’t an issue then I would be more inclined to trade Heathcott over Mason Williams. As it stands though, Heathcott is closer to the majors and more capable of stepping up in CF in place of Granderson.

    I suppose you could trade Heathcott if you’re getting back an OF but that assumes you’re promoting Gardner to an important spot while he is a liability with health issues.
    ———————————————————–

    I like all 3 but I think I’d be most willing to give up Austin out of the 3. Heathcott could be an injury concern with how hard he plays but I like the little of I’ve seen from him. He could really be a sparkplug for this team for a long time. Not that Austin is a scrub either, haha.

  194. 86w183 January 16th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    I’d just tell the Marlins to take any five players you want….. and we’ll eat Nolasco’s deal too! Stanton’s that good.

    I would have taken Melky back, but I think Toronto overpaid all things considered.

    If Cano leaves as a FA it’s all about the $ 189 M and realizing it’s almost impossible to hope to be a post-season team with four guys making over $ 20 M.

  195. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    For those who kept asking about why Alex was prehabbing instead of having the surgery right away:

    “Since that time, Rodriguez has been preparing for Wednesday’s procedure by following a prehabilitation regimen to strengthen the hip, while reducing inflammation. Kelly said that the wait will improve Rodriguez’s chance for a healthy return to the Yankees lineup.

    “Operating earlier actually will frequently result in a more prolonged recovery afterwards, because it takes longer for the muscles to respond and recover from the surgery,” Kelly said.”

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....um=twitter

  196. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    The contingency plan for Alex Rodriguez was Cody Ransom once upon a time. Now it’s Kevin Youkilis. Getting serious out there.

  197. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    “I find it amusing the absolutism that floats around in here. If you don’t think Melky is a burgeoning perennial All-Star then you must be saying he’s hot garbage…”

    This is a leap though. How about your absolutism that Melky is an average player? Numbers don’t back that up. Or that his improvement is only because of PEDs. I believe the reaction has been to your absolutism. But you are entitled to your opinion, that goes without saying.

  198. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    Right, you can say Melky was in better shape and perhaps recovered better as a result of PEDS, but to say he has become the hitter he is today because of PEDS is a facile argument.
    ——————–

    What I am saying is that it is beyond stupid to think that being in better shape and having better results as a hitter aren’t related.

  199. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    “I don’t think Melky’s a bad player, I think he’s an average player.”

    2011 Age 26 KCR AL PA 706 .305 /.339 /.470 /.809
    2012 Age 27 SFG NL PA 501 .346 /.390 /.516 /.906

    2011 Platoon splits:

    vs RHP as LHB KC AL PA 485 .306 /.344 /.475 /.818
    vs LHP as RHB PA 221 .304 /.329 /.459 /.788

    2012 Platoon Splits:

    vs RHP as LHB SF NL PA 357 .327 /.368/ .458/ .826
    vs LHP as RHB PA 144 .395/.444 /.667 /1.111

  200. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    “I find it amusing the absolutism that floats around in here. If you don’t think Melky is a burgeoning perennial All-Star then you must be saying he’s hot garbage…”

    This is a leap though. How about your absolutism that Melky is an average player? Numbers don’t back that up. Or that his improvement is only because of PEDs. I believe the reaction has been to your absolutism. But you are entitled to your opinion, that goes without saying.
    —————————

    I’m not the only one saying he’s an average ball player though – The Yankees said it too. http://1045theteam.com/brian-c.....id-cheats/

    The Braves thought he wasn’t even that good – nontendering him after his one season in Atlanta.

  201. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    “I don’t think Melky’s a bad player, I think he’s an average player.”

    2011 Age 26 KCR AL PA 706 .305 /.339 /.470 /.809
    2012 Age 27 SFG NL PA 501 .346 /.390 /.516 /.906

    2011 Platoon splits:

    vs RHP as LHB KC AL PA 485 .306 /.344 /.475 /.818
    vs LHP as RHB PA 221 .304 /.329 /.459 /.788

    2012 Platoon Splits:

    vs RHP as LHB SF NL PA 357 .327 /.368/ .458/ .826
    vs LHP as RHB PA 144 .395/.444 /.667 /1.111
    ———————

    ON STEROIDS.

  202. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:39 am

    “Still don’t think the Diamondbacks are interested in that deal, after what they were extracting from the Mariners.”

    it’s a different deal but the value could be considered close IMO…..Walker is a bigger piece than the Yankee package but the rest is better on the Yanks side…..Sanchez and Austin are both top 50 prospects and Nova has won 16 games in the big leagues….it’s a strong package IMO

  203. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:39 am

    JAP…

    Let’s see how he performs supposedly clean these next two years. He’s in the prime of his career so assuming steroids had nothing to do with his performance then we should see a continued progression from over the last two seasons right…

  204. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    “I’d just tell the Marlins to take any five players you want….. and we’ll eat Nolasco’s deal too! Stanton’s that good”

    I’d rather trade 2 top prospects for Upton than 5 for Stanton if given that choice

  205. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Yea, I think they said Willie Sutton had “maturity issues”. Melky pulled a Brinks Job, and those dummies in Toronto are stilling falling for it. Melky was and is a 4th OF’er, when he’s off the stuff.

  206. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Chad-

    Also would be interested in the orthopedists findings and especially what was done to the femoral head. I believe in earlier reports it was noted that ARod had a congenital anomaly of the head of the left femur and would require resurfacing to smooth it out.

    In my experience resurfacing of the femoral head involves reshaping it and placing a metal cap over the femoral head.

    If so, what is the best time scenario for recovery on that weight bearing hip, to be able to at least be able to DH if not immediately “play the field?”

  207. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Melky should just hit up Bautista for whatever he uses. He’d never get caught.

  208. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Chip,
    even if Melky regresses to KC Melky then that’s still an .800 OPS outfielder for a pretty cheap contract.

  209. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Blake -

    The problem with the package you’re offering vs the Mariner one is that in the case of the Seattle package – the highest rated prospect is close to ML ready, less risk there. In Sanchez and Austin though you’re talking about two guys who were in Low A ball at this time last year…there’s still a lot more room for their careers to stall.

  210. yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    It feeds into Cash’s narrative to call Melky a 4th OF. Do you really think the player is a 4th OF? And do you really think PEDS would increase a player’s abilities by so much? And again, if he was caught with PEDS now, how do you know he hasn’t been using his whole career? You are making a big assumption? It is one thing to talk about ability to stay in shape and recover, it is quite another to say the PEDS created the bat of a switch hitter, no less, categorically into something it wasn’t. If you think that is what PEDS do, then so be it.

  211. jacksquat January 16th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 10:37 am
    Oh, so now you’re inside Robinson Cano’s head Chip and you know that if the Yankees offer him 8 years at 23 per year, he would snub them and test the market?

    Get real.

    I think you need to get real on this one. His agent is Boras. How often do you see big Boras clients sign right after the season ends, still in the exlusive negotiating window? Almost never. The Yankees would have to blow him away. There’s a 99% chance he goes to free agency and other teams will make offers. With Boras it could even take a few months.

  212. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Chip,
    even if Melky regresses to KC Melky then that’s still an .800 OPS outfielder for a pretty cheap contract.
    ————-

    I think it’s more likely he regresses to the player he was with the Yankees. His KC performance was a spike up to that point.

  213. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Then there is a 99% the Yankees are cheap and can’t read the market and have no pre-existing relationship with Robinson Cano.

  214. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:46 am

    “The problem with the package you’re offering vs the Mariner one is that in the case of the Seattle package – the highest rated prospect is close to ML ready, less risk there.”

    there is risk with Walker…..#1 upside but he could bust like crazy….pitching prospects do all the time.

  215. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 11:46 am

    And if you believe any of the above, then I will leave you alone to your panic attack.

  216. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    So who is going to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft? Anybody follow college hoops?

  217. Chip January 16th, 2013 at 11:48 am

    yankeefeminista January 16th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    It feeds into Cash’s narrative to call Melky a 4th OF. Do you really think the player is a 4th OF? And do you really think PEDS would increase a player’s abilities by so much? And again, if he was caught with PEDS now, how do you know he hasn’t been using his whole career? You are making a big assumption? It is one thing to talk about ability to stay in shape and recover, it is quite another to say the PEDS created the bat of a switch hitter, no less, categorically into something it wasn’t. If you think that is what PEDS do, then so be it.
    ———–

    One more time, because repeating myself is boring:

    I do not believe that steroids give a player the ability to hit a baseball. They do not help a pitcher learn how to throw a curveball or a slider. I can’t shoot steroids and become a major league baseball player because I don’t have the talent to do it. But what steroids do are give a player with talent the ability to work longer and harder, to get bigger and stronger and practice more and all of those things create a better ball player.

    People who don’t see that either have blinders on or are being intentionally obtuse.

    Again, if they don’t help then players wouldn’t do them.

  218. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:48 am

    “I think it’s more likely he regresses to the player he was with the Yankees.”

    when he was 23? They failed to acknowledge that he could have just plain improved since then skill wise

  219. Jerkface January 16th, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Again, if they don’t help then players wouldn’t do them.

    This isn’t really a solid argument :)

  220. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 11:51 am

    At this point, Towers would be better off just dealing Kubel. The closer we get to ST, the more GM’s are gonna wanna look at their prospects come March. Towers has allowed the J Upton Sweepstakes to drag on too long.

  221. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:51 am

    “Again, if they don’t help then players wouldn’t do them.”

    nobody is saying they don’t help….that’s an argument made of straw…..the point is that quitting taking PEDs doesn’t mean you’ll morph into a scrub the year after you won a batting title….especially when your 27 years old.

  222. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    “My hope is that they can combine a good farm system with a willingness to resign your best FAs to produce a hybrid of the Yankees approach with the Tampa approach.”

    That is exactly what they did during the Dynasty years.

    ;)

  223. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Steroids enhance your energy level which could serve to keep you more focused and alert and perhaps assist your muscles in memory when it comes to repeatable motions like baseball swings. Melky’s swing is solid but it’s possible that his improvement in strength coupled with enhanced energy metabolism allowed him to make fractional adjustments in swing and kept him more intensely focused during at-bats.

  224. blake January 16th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Towers is just waiting for Cashman to agree to include Cervelli

  225. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 11:55 am

    “Towers has allowed the J Upton Sweepstakes to drag on too long.”

    Perhaps. He can always backtrack and take the lesser offer.

    For now he seems to be trying to extract that last concession from one of his targeted teams.

    Only Seattle has ponied up so far.

  226. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2013 at 11:55 am

    Chad and YF, plus any interested parties:

    Attaching Dr. Bryan Kelly website. If you are inclined, click on the Femoro Acetabular Impingement interactive video and you’ll see what ARod is likely going thru today:

    http://bryankellymd.com/

  227. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 11:56 am

    YF-

    Maybe you should have done the surgery.

    :)

  228. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    What I’m trying to say is, baseball is a mental game and the effect of steroids on the body in turn influences the performance of the mind. They turn you into more of an animal – and animals can be very precise in the wild during activities and routines they depend on for survival. It’s like jumping into a cave man’s mind and body and viewing the world through his eyes. Your senses are enhanced and you pick up on subtle stimuli quite rapidly – sounds, visual triggers, even moods. How do I know this? You guessed it.

  229. MTU January 16th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Meant to say YT.

    sorry.

  230. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Cabrera hit .298 w/RISP in 2009 for your New York Yankees. Guess he was juicing?

    He’s a .296 CAREER high leverage hitter…. guess he’s always juiced in high leverage?

    What has improved has been plate discipline and power has increased, as it began to in 2009.

    In 2009, here’s what Melky did month to month:

    April: .327/.400/.571/.971 55 PA
    May: .321/. 348/.429/.777 91 PA
    June: .225/.312/.375/.687 94 PA
    July: .289/.372/.447/.819 86 PA
    Aug: .223/.264/.350/.613 111PA
    Sept/Oct: .290/.359/.409/.758 103 PA

    He’s a career .309 hitter in May, in 655 PA, and a .324 hitter in July, both with an above .800 OPS.

    His problem has generally been a poor June. In fact, in June 2009, he ran his shoulder into the CF wall in Texas going back on a ball, and had no left-handed power at all. His numbers would have been better without that incident. He also has tended to dip towards the end of the season, fatigue or whatever. However, the “hot” months have always been there. For instance, in 2007, he hit .298 in May, .368 in July (.939 OPS) and .306 in a rare good showing in June (career-wise, he’s a .262 hitter in June).

    If drugs did anything, they helped him not be worn out by the end of the year and helped him keep the weight off. The rest is talent, that has always been there, and the work he put into developing his hit tool.

  231. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    How do I know this? You guessed it.
    ///

    Let me guess: caveman’s diet and coconut oil? :D

  232. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Huh? I’ve cycled steroids.

  233. blake January 16th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    the merits of steroids will be discussed this way ->

  234. DONNYBROOK January 16th, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    Nice, having a Cave Man added to the Blog.

  235. J. Alfred Prufrock January 16th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    But what steroids do are give a player with talent the ability to work longer and harder, to get bigger and stronger and practice more and all of those things create a better ball player.
    ///

    You mean *average talent, don’t you? :D

  236. FiretheUMPIRE January 16th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    My main point is, you shouldn’t speculate what steroids do or don’t do unless you’ve done them Donny.

  237. Yankee Trader January 16th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    New Post———>


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