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The Yankees fan experience of 2013

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 18, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

 

In the middle of last season, my father randomly called to ask a question about Matt Adams. He wanted to know something about where Adams went to college or where he grew up, something like that. My response: Who in the world is Matt Adams?

Must have been the first time since 1984 that I’d never heard of that night’s Cardinals starting first baseman.

My relationship with baseball has changed a lot since I graduated college, left Missouri and began covering the game. It’s especially changed in the three-plus years since I took this job. Maybe that’s why I so loved this morning’s Pinch Hitter post. It was beautifully written and completely different from anything I would write here on the blog. I’m afraid it’s impossible to have my job and keep a true fan relationship with the game, but it was nice to have the fan experience described in 477 words.

As a follow-up, I thought I’d pull some of Sarah’s words and apply them to this Yankees team.  

… you read all the books and you learn all the names and you memorize all the stats and collect all the stories…
This is for all you prospect huggers out there. At this point, getting to know Derek Jeter’s story doesn’t take much, but this line made me think of all the emails I’ve gotten about Rafael DePaula. The guy’s never pitched a single game in the U.S., he should be a complete unknown, yet I’ve had people ask me about his fastball, about his destination for 2013, and about a reasonable timetable for his arrival in New York. It’s kind of like when I got to college and found out that there were people who traded recordings of my favorite bands’ live shows. I always thought I was an intense fan, then I discovered an entirely new level. And just like with the prospect huggers, there are plenty who say it’s a step too far and takes away from the stuff that really matters. Also, this is why Jesus Montero is still brought up all the time. Because fans – and media — were legitimately invested in him.

… over time, maybe the intensity dulls. Maybe the novelty just wears off. …
I think we’re seeing a lot of that with the Yankees fan base this offseason. Jeter is great and all, but he’s old news. So are Mariano Rivera and Andy Pettitte. Even CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira and Curtis Granderson have grown too familiar to build much excitement. The novelty is long gone, and players like Mike Trout and Bryce Harper and Giancarlo Stanton are playing somewhere else, and there’s already an anticipation of what comes next in the Bronx. The familiarity — and the lack of a shiny new toy — is perhaps leading people to underestimate how good the Yankees could be in 2013.

… you realize you’re married to this game, or maybe to this team, but it’s not the game or the team you fell in love with. …
The Boss is dead, Jorge Posada is retired and Melky Cabrera became a steroid-enhanced all-star in San Francisco, not New York. For crying out loud, Kevin Youkilis is being fitted for pinstripes! Change is inevitable, and for those who have attached themselves to one  Yankees idea or one Yankees identity, change can be too much. Even those familiar faces who stay don’t stay the same. Alex Rodriguez is broken again, Jeter’s not a lock to hit .300 any more, and Francisco Cervelli is no longer an excitable backup, he’s a potential starter who might not be up to the job.

… It’s still there with you when you come home, a steadfast companion, ready whenever you turn on the TV or flick on the radio…
Of click onto the LoHud Yankees Blog! Come on Sarah. A little shout out, that’s all I ask.

… maybe something comes up and everything reverses polarity again. …
Sarah mentioned a lot of individual moments that might re-ignite a fan – one great game, a smart discussion, an argument with a non-fan — but couldn’t the big picture do the same thing? If these Yankees stay healthy and actually make a run, wouldn’t they be a lot of fun to watch? Rivera and Pettitte making one last stand. Jeter, Youkilis and Ichiro making a statement at the end of their careers. The very reasons that this team might struggle — a lot of age, a handful of unproven regulars, fewer home run hitters than last year – are the same reasons that this team would be fun to watch if it succeeds. If guys like Michael Pineda and Austin Romine can solidify the future, even better, but strictly on a short-term basis, I think fans would really get into watching this group make a legitimate run.  

… It’s hard to give your heart, again and again, to something that might not deserve it. …
That’s kind of the point, isn’t it? How often have you dismissed a Yankees fan who jumped on board in 1998, gave up on the team in 2008 and suddenly became a “super fan” again in October of 2009? Sports are only exciting because of the unknown. The possibility of failure is essential, and without it, the success doesn’t matter. I’ve been asked time after time whether fans will bail based on the current financial plan and the short-comings of the new Yankee Stadium. My answer: Not if the team keeps winning (or starts winning again). A few might look at the bottom line and decide to move on, but for the most part, you’re either in or your out, and your devotion was set long, long ago. Fans have the right to indignation, but at the end of the day, the team is holding all the cards. You have little choice but to trust them — the players and the front office — to come through.

Associated Press photos

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373 Responses to “The Yankees fan experience of 2013”

  1. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    ” It’s kind of like when I got to college and found out that there were people who traded recordings of my favorite bands’ live shows.”

    I’ve got some good Yo La Tengo shows. Not even Cheap Hal can take them away.

  2. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    If Pineda, Manny Banuelos and Campos can all get healthy and continue along their once promising trajectory, the Yankees future suddenly looks far less bleak than portrayed.

  3. DONNYBROOK January 18th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    As the saying goes, “Familiarity breeds contempt”. Such is the case with scribes, or others that get close to The Game at the MLB Level.
    I put NO stock in foreign birth certificates. I scrutined a picture of Miguel Montero, and based on age lines, teeth deterioration, clarity and brightness of the white in his eyes, and general hair thickness and mass at the stem, the Donny Meter came up with a probable Age of 38.2 yrs.

  4. jacksquat January 18th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 11:48 am
    “that’s what i’m talking about people spinning the truth into a narrative that more fits their agenda.”

    This is one of the funniest things you’ve posted here, randy. Thank you.

    Indeed.

    Jaso gets traded and all of a sudden Montero has been “pretty much” penciled in as the starting catcher.

  5. MatthewMark January 18th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    I dont agree with this piece. The fan base is not reacting with disloyalty to the team or its positive parts. Of course, it will be great when the older guys make one more run this summer. Real fans that love the team still love the team.

    But ownership is hypocritical and arrogant. Managing a franchise that makes a fortune to enhance its profitability and put the fan base through a down period not to rebuild the talent pool only but to make more money is off putting. Doing it at the same time that you have raised ticket pricing in a bunch of ways–new stadium, cable deal, stub hub dispute–both transparent and less so is offensive. Doing it as the sons of a great owner who stand alone have little credibility and have accomplished little professionally in life other than being born to a rich father is worse.

    I am fine with rooting for my favorite athletes ever–Jete, Mo, Andy–to make one more push, at least. I am less fine with not spending relatively small amounts of money to be better in 2013 or 2014, because of a tax that will limit profitability, which is immense, has been immense, and will be immense, at the same time my prices have gone up a ton. Customers who don’t pushback against that will get one thing: More of it.

  6. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    No, Jesus Montero has been “pretty much” penciled in as the starting catcher for the next decade and Zunino is on the trade block. That’s where you are sorely mistaken. And we’re all feelin’ smug.

  7. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    “If Pineda, Manny Banuelos and Campos can all get healthy and continue along their once promising trajectory, the Yankees future suddenly looks far less bleak than portrayed.”

    It should never have come to that. That it has, speaks volumes.

  8. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    austinmac January 18th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Shame,

    The most fun I have had baseball related is often laughing at your posts. You, my friend, are a breath of often odd, but funny, fresh air.

    —————

    Awww shucks, thanks mac. You’ve got me blushing ;)

    But really, we come to hang out with each other instead of doing work. I think you guys are fun!! Even when we’re mad at things like the Yankees, Chad, or science, we’re still fun!

    I’m fun!

  9. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    Jaso gets traded and all of a sudden Montero has been “pretty much” penciled in as the starting catcher.

    —————–

    Actually, this might be one of the shortest leaps randy has taken… They just traded away their best option so I don’t think it’s a stretch to say Montero is going to get a big bulk of the workload this season.

  10. DONNYBROOK January 18th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    The term “pretty much” is a phrase commonly used at The Waffle House.

  11. G. Love January 18th, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    For the record guys, my Yankee mole has clammed up. I’ve seen him at the gym the past couple of weeks and he no longer holds state of the union addresses for all who want to listen in the locker room. Could just be a temporary thing though since I know the guy lives for attention. Everything he wears and carries has a Yankees logo on it. Even his iPad cover has the Yankees on it.

    That said, he looks very well rested and very tan.

  12. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Rich that is but one factor.

  13. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    DONNY stop talking crap about Waffle House. I love the Texas hash browns there with melted cheese. How can you not love the grub there?

  14. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    …I hope they get Upton.

    I dunno why lately I’ve been worried about the Mets getting him, however.

  15. CompassRosy January 18th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    MTU ~

    Thanks for your kind words.

    I agree there are very few “untouchables” and I certainly never put Jaso in that category. It was just my opinion that he made a decent platoon with Jesus. Obviously, JZ felt this particular deal was worth it, even though now he has to find another BuC.

    Who knows, maybe Zunino will show up in July and light the world on fire …. as Russell Wilson showed, the bar is now set pretty darn high for rookies in Seattle ;)

  16. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    I gandered a closer look at Miguel Montero and I think you may be right. He’s at least 35.

  17. randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    “Actually, this might be one of the shortest leaps randy has taken… They just traded away their best option so I don’t think it’s a stretch to say Montero is going to get a big bulk of the workload this season.”

    thank you shame :)

  18. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    DONNY stop talking crap about Waffle House. I love the Texas hash browns there with melted cheese. How can you not love the grub there?

    ——————–

    Cheese grits..mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    There are no Waffle Houses in NJ that I know of, but whenever I stop at one I go ham on that place.

  19. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    It’s definitely worth what happens to me after I leave. Every minute of it. :lol:

  20. jacksquat January 18th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 12:10 pm
    Jaso gets traded and all of a sudden Montero has been “pretty much” penciled in as the starting catcher.

    —————–

    Actually, this might be one of the shortest leaps randy has taken… They just traded away their best option so I don’t think it’s a stretch to say Montero is going to get a big bulk of the workload this season.

    Hasn’t happened yet. Yet Randy (and others) didn’t hesitate one second to see an opening and jam their foot in the door, bursting in with a fresh new round of Montero posts. It’s not even known yet if Seattle might bring up Zunino “early”, or he may be bought up in May, or Montero could fail. At least wait until Montero is designated the starting catcher. At least wait until he actually succeeds before getting “smug”.

    Not to mention that Montero isn’t even a Yankee anymore. He’s gone, get over it, or go post on Lookout Landing. It’s rude to flood a Yankee board with 50% of the posts about one non-Yankee.

  21. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    “Rich that is but one factor.”

    I will pose to you a question that restates a point that I made on the last thread:

    How did the Yankees, with their abundant resources and supposedly smart people in charge, get to the point where they have no young, high ceiling, cost-controlled players on the roster? And since that is the case, why does the owner think it’s a good time to shrink payroll?

  22. Bo knows January 18th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Repost

    It’s not Yankee kool aid. The Yankees are going down. The question is, for how long? The rest is PR spin. I want to shorten that time frame as much as possible, so signing Beltran and trading the two OFs, one per year, to me was an obvious choice. But if I, sitting on the sidelines could see it, I’m sure Yankee management could at least see that option. Didn’t happen.

    Ownership has been short sighted and bottom line focused. That isn’t baseball. Baseball is projecting that eighteen year old. So just as the core is coming to an end, Cash and co are put on a budget instead of priming the pump with smart signings. Instead of getting innovative, they started counting pennies in a macro kind of way. 210 mil a season isn’t pennies.

    It is what it is. Fact remains, that the Yankees are getting squeezed and how they respond to the challenge is at the least, interesting. I can’t wait to see what they will do.

  23. yanks61 January 18th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Mike Axisa touting Manny Ramirez as a RH bat for the Yanks!

    Thoughts, folks?

  24. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    “Actually, this might be one of the shortest leaps randy has taken… They just traded away their best option so I don’t think it’s a stretch to say Montero is going to get a big bulk of the workload this season.”

    thank you shame :)

    ——————

    It really isn’t that crazy… I mean, they had Olivio, got rid of him, had Jaso, got rid of him…… do they even have anyone besides Montero on the active rosters that’s a catcher??

  25. DONNYBROOK January 18th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    I thought that snippet in The Post about Mel Gibson “possibly” being the father of Jodie Foster’s 2 boys was Hilarious. That’s the kind of creative thinking the Yanks need in their front office. Also, “Maverick”, the movie they both starred in is absolutely Horrible. James Garner shoulda sued for defamation of character and loss of future wages.

  26. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    “you are one of those who tries to spin it that i don’t know what i’m talking about when i say my eyes see something. how’s that working out for you?”

    randy, with all due respect, you’re somewhere between confused and deluded. I have never said that you don’t know what you’re talking about when you say your eyes see something (although it often seems that you don’t know what you’re talking about when your eyes see written words in the LoHud comments section).

    What I said — and you can look it up — is that’s it’s tricky for the non-expert like myself to sift through the various opinions of people who really do know what they’re talking about from professional experience and decide which ones to believe and which ones to dismiss. What should we do when real experts disagree (as they do in virtually every field, of course)?

    Your reply was one of the great non sequiturs in LoHud history: you replied that you weren’t going to apologize for getting off your couch and doing something. Well then!

    Then, just to complete the circle of crazy, a few days later you wrote that Trisha had asked the very perceptive question of what fans should do when they read conflicting expert opinions. Brilliant.

    What made this comment: “that’s what i’m talking about people spinning the truth into a narrative that more fits their agenda.” so funny is two things:

    First, you once went off on a great rant about how no real baseball person would use the word narrative after LGY or someone used it in a post.

    Second, and more to the point, you’ve been spinning things every which way you can to fit your personal agenda for as long as I’ve been reading this blog, which is now over 5 years. Hence the funny.

    Maybe looking at people as enemies

  27. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    squat – If you’re pushing back at the glut of Montero posts, I understand that.. but I still don’t see any reason at this point not to assume that Montero will be doing a good amount of catching for the Mariners this season based on their off season moves.

    Fem and randy are just discussing the prevailing belief amongst the Yankee organization that he couldn’t/wouldn’t catch. Again, I don’t think it’s a big leap to say he will do a good amount of it now that Olivio and Jaso aren’t factors. I’m not all that surprised that the Jaso move has brought the spotlight back to Montero.

    ….I really wish we would have made a play for Jaso.

  28. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    yanks61 January 18th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Mike Axisa touting Manny Ramirez as a RH bat for the Yanks!

    Thoughts, folks?

    —————-

    We talked a bit about it in the last thread. I think it’s highly unlikely they go for it , but if it were me – for a real cheap deal – I’d take a flyer out on him. He could probably give you more than Jones ever did.

  29. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    ooops, hit submit too soon. To conclude:

    Maybe looking at people as enemies explains the above behavior, but I have no idea.

  30. bruceb January 18th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    Managing a franchise that makes a fortune to enhance its profitability and put the fan base through a down period not to rebuild the talent pool only but to make more money is off putting.

    Good post, MatthewMark.

    I think it’s the sheer arrogance of the Yankees’ owners, who don’t recognize that they’re asking fans to pay more for an inferior product, that riles me the most.

  31. austinmac January 18th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    The Maverick TV show was one of the best at the time. He was the rare unheroic hero. The movie was awful.

  32. DONNYBROOK January 18th, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    NO WAY you sully the pinstripes by allowing Manny to don a Yankee Uni. NO WAY.

  33. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Rich the team features plenty of cost-controlled candidates. Granted, some things have to go right but the Yankees have not sold off a significant amount of young talent. Austin Jackson is the only big producer out there. I don’t know if you can count Ian Kennedy anymore. Montero bombed last year. He BOMBED. I think it’s fairly obvious that the Yankees have been slowly quietly stockpiling young talent.

    Nova
    Phelps
    Pineda
    Banuelos
    Campos
    Nunez
    Williams
    Heathcott
    Sanchez
    Romine
    Austin

  34. DONNYBROOK January 18th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    James Garner is very good in every role he takes on. His Jim Rockford is also classic.

  35. Bo knows January 18th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    The Yankee ownership has been like a walrus on a diving board, big splash, “now you’re on a budget, Cash” as in A Rod and Soriano. The little jobber is getting sqouzed.

  36. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Of course randy is going to spike the football if he thinks he’s scored a touchdown, even if he just got a first down on the 50 yard line and there’s a flag on the field.

    Preliminary indication is holding, but we’re waiting for the ref to give the ruling.

  37. RadioKev January 18th, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 12:07 pm
    “If Pineda, Manny Banuelos and Campos can all get healthy and continue along their once promising trajectory, the Yankees future suddenly looks far less bleak than portrayed.”

    It should never have come to that. That it has, speaks volumes.
    ———

    I dunno. It’s really not that bleak. Maybe we’re not as competitive in 2014? We’ll see how Cano, Hughes, and Granderson shake out.

    But as you’ve pointed out, we do have some possible impact arms, and impact bats, on the way. It’s really not that bad.

  38. austinmac January 18th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    Donny,

    I loved Rockford Files too. You remind me a bit of Angel. :)

  39. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Pineda’s surgery was successful. YES!!! I told you guys…I told all of you that Michael Pineda would rise up and pitch like an ace for the next 10 years. Now if those who all agreed with me would be so kind as to gulp up the next 4 pages of posts in the comments section on LOHUD my fanhood will be sufficiently vindicated.

    #feelingsmug

    #upallnightsmugallday

  40. RadioKev January 18th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Manny and Youkilis as Yankees. That would be something. Have we resigned Derek Lowe yet??

  41. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    “Rich the team features plenty of cost-controlled candidates.”

    Who have they developed besides Cano in the last decade that gives you confidence that they will show them the patience to fail, if necessary, while they try to, in Hal’s words, “win the WS every single year.”

    “Granted, some things have to go right but the Yankees have not sold off a significant amount of young talent. Austin Jackson is the only big producer out there. I don’t know if you can count Ian Kennedy anymore. Montero bombed last year. He BOMBED.”

    By your logic, AJack bombed before last season. Does that mean that they haven’t sold off talent, or perhaps it really means that they can’t draft and develop talent.

    “I think it’s fairly obvious that the Yankees have been slowly quietly stockpiling young talent.”

    Cashman got more power 7 years ago. That’s a long time for such meager results.

  42. RadioKev January 18th, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    I still really hate the idea of signing Cano to a huge contract. Ugh. Do the Cardinals regret not resigning Pujols?

  43. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    Rich, so far the only conclusion I can draw is that Austin Jackson is the sole big producer out there the Yankees let slip away.

    Also keep in mind the 10 prospects to be added 2013 and 2014 through Yankee 1st and 2nd round picks, international talent and additional picks for Swisher, Soriano, Granderson and Hughes.

  44. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    “I dunno. It’s really not that bleak. Maybe we’re not as competitive in 2014? We’ll see how Cano, Hughes, and Granderson shake out.”

    Bleak, isn’t the issue when you spend what they spend. The test, imo, is whether or not you can flourish.

    That was the standard Cashman set in 2005:

    http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com.....8;c_id=nyy

    “We have the most money, there’s no secret about that,” Cashman said. “If you combine that with the best decision-making process on a consistent basis, then God help the rest of baseball.”

    As currently constructed, and their desire to cut payroll, they aren’t in a position to do that over the next few years. With the time they have had to prepare, and their outsized resources, that is hardly and endorsement of their current management team.

    So really, Cashman has failed to meet his own standard.

  45. Jerkface January 18th, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    Do the Cardinals regret not resigning Pujols?

    Well they signed Matt Holliday & Carlos Beltran, where as we have signed Kevin Youkilis & Ichiro, so… :twisted:

  46. Tackelberry January 18th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    Anyone else sad that 30 Rock is coming to an end? Private Practice too. I love Kate Walsh.

  47. RadioKev January 18th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    Bleak, isn’t the issue when you spend what they spend. The test, imo, is whether or not you can flourish.
    ——-

    And what’s your standard of flourishing? Consistently winning the playoffs would be my own.

  48. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    I am more maddened that the college hoops season is nearing its end. Kansas all the way.

  49. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    “Rich, so far the only conclusion I can draw is that Austin Jackson is the sole big producer out there the Yankees let slip away.”

    But you wouldn’t have said that after the 2011 season. You would have said IPK, and maybe Melky. Next season, it could be Montero, and Melky, and IPK, and AJack. They should all be Yankees now. If they were, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Or maybe we would be switching sides?

    “Also keep in mind the 10 prospects to be added 2013 and 2014 through Yankee 1st and 2nd round picks, international talent and additional picks for Swisher, Soriano, Granderson and Hughes.”

    Those guys will be years away, and to this point, they haven’t been particularly great at developing talent including showing them patience at the ML level.

  50. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    Is seppuku too good for this Cashman fellow?

  51. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    I am not dealing with hypotheticals as far as young talent surrendered. If you want me to count unrealized talent then you will have to acknowledge the list of cost-controlled candidates I presented and project unrealized performance onto those prospects.

    And the equation would be quite lopsided if we did that.

  52. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    “And what’s your standard of flourishing? Consistently winning the playoffs would be my own.”

    To me, it’s having a balanced team, with some veterans AND some high ceiling young players. That is the best way to ensure winning.

  53. yanks61 January 18th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    I wonder if someone could help with a stupid question: I seem to be able to post a short comment (like now) but whenever I try to copy and post something a bit longer that I wrote in a word document and pasted here, it gets eaten by the Lohud monster guarding the comments gate.

    Ideas, please?

  54. Jerkface January 18th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    I’m not asking for much, just that the Yankees acquire all the players I want them to, spend the money I want them to, and win all of their games including the playoffs.

  55. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    ” If you want me to count unrealized talent then you will have to acknowledge the list of cost-controlled candidates I presented and project unrealized performance onto those prospects.”

    Why would you do that? That gives management credit for failures.

    You are arbitrarily looking at a one year time horizon and deciding what defines success.

    I pointed out that if you look at more than one year, there is a larger number of young players they traded away that have produced at a high level.

  56. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    And that’s totally fair. I feel the exact same way Jerkface. I would add that I want Cashman to personally apologize to me (preferably via email) when my (our) expectations are not met.

  57. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    “Is seppuku too good for this Cashman fellow?”

    Maybe drown him in bronze, and then put the bust in Monument Park.

  58. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Rich you are penalizing management for potential success just as I would be crediting for potential failures.

    Do you feel you should be allowed to do that for one player yet not reciprocate the same for at least one player on a list of many presented to you?

  59. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    “Rich you are penalizing management for potential success just as I would be crediting for potential failures.”

    What success am I penalizing them for?

  60. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    yanks61, no clue except perhaps your longer comment included links? You can only post one link per comment or the comment gets trapped.

  61. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    @DKnobler

    Boone Logan agrees with Yankees, $3.15 mill, per @CAA_Baseball

    ——————

    Yank – C@ncer gets caught in the censor so check that out. Ass is okay.

  62. yanks61 January 18th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    OK, I guess I give up. Apologies for coming in so late on this but I’ve tried without success all morning to send this across on the Armstrong issue. So here’s the short version.

    A French friend who owns the bicycle shop in the town where I live told me years ago (to my ardent expressions of disbelief) that his son’s friend, a journalist covering the Tour de France, claimed that lots of folks knew Armstrong was doping. Few said anything because there was no hard proof and the threat of Armstrong suing was too great.

    French cycling fans found Lance surly and never warmed to him as they did to Greg LeMond who was well liked. I thought that may have played a part in their thinking. Obviously I was wrong.

  63. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Trade. Boone. Logan.

  64. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    What failures am I rewarding them for?

  65. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    yanks61, no clue except perhaps your longer comment included links? You can only post one link per comment or the comment gets trapped.

    —————–

    Do they ever show up, btw? I’ve gotten comments caught in there but never went back to see if they were done awaiting moderation.

  66. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    yanks61 January 18th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    OK, I guess I give up. Apologies for coming in so late on this but I’ve tried without success all morning to send this across on the Armstrong issue. So here’s the short version.

    ——————

    I figured, you said c@ncer…. I was wrestling with it yesterday and realized the censor catches that word. Dumb.

  67. yanks61 January 18th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Thanks, Nick. No, there were no links, so have no idea why my attempts were swallowed, except maybe that they just didn’t like the copy and paste job!? Anyway, I just sent through the thrust of what I was yammering about.

  68. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    They’re a little short-staffed at the moment, Shame, when eventually those comments awaiting moderation will be attended to and we’ll finally get those multi-linked delights.

    It would be funny if they all showed up at once in a current thread, but they probably show up in their original threads, as per Sports Geek’s wishes.

  69. randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    ” What should we do when real experts disagree (as they do in virtually every field, of course)?”

    nick in sf-

    this is a an interesting point. how do lay people know who to believe when experts disagree on an issue?

    i think you look at the expert’s body of work and experience and then you have to watch and see who was right. file that away to use the next time one of these people says something.

    even then it’s often a probability game.

    i didn’t have the problem you have with montero. i know enough about pro catching to tell he can catch at the mlb level.

    it’s possible to spend a lot of time at games watching players and see things too even if you haven’t played the game. yankee feminista for example is very good at scouting players. she puts in a lot of time in while being really into it. she’s actually quite gifted at it.

    the problem i have with most people on the blog is they really have little ability to evaluate a player without having some stats to go by. a player can run, throw, hit, etc before he piles up any stats.
    i like stats, but i didn’t have to see stats to see montero had good hands for a catcher.

    it became an accepted myth on this blog that montero couldn’t catch. this was just these fans being
    being true believers parroting what yankee management was telling them. no one is going to sue them , but they are just incredibly gullible at best.

    i’m laughing right now at montero haters simply because the evidence that monetro can catch is pretty obvious.
    the jeff datz interview pretty much says it all.

    i’ll post that again. anyone interested in montero should read it:
    http://mynorthwest.com/374/217.....ch-in-2013

  70. jacksquat January 18th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Those guys will be years away, and to this point, they haven’t been particularly great at developing talent including showing them patience at the ML level.

    Jeter
    Cano
    Gardner
    Cervelli (since apparently we are using current players on the roster only)
    Pettitte
    Hughes
    Nova
    Phelps
    Rivera
    Robertson
    Chamberlain
    Nunez (possibly)

    Seems like a pretty big chunk of the roster to me. That’s all the up the middle skill positions (Gardner, Jeter, Cano, Cervelli), 3/5 of the rotation and the top 3 in the bullpen.

  71. yanks61 January 18th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    OK. just for kicks, here it goes without the xrated word (apologies to everyone for all the mucking about.)

    Reading about the Armstrong interview last night was another unhappy reminder about how I had gotten it all wrong.

    Years ago, before Lance won his last Tour de France, a French friend who owns a bicycle shop in the town where I live told me that he was absoultely sure that Armstrong was doping. He said that a friend of his son was a journalist covering the Tour and the word was already out there amongst everyone in the know.He claimed that as there was no proof lots of folks were loathe to come out with their suspicions because of Armstrong’s constant threat of suing any accuser.

    I vehemently argued against that, never believing that a (blank) survivor would be so stupid as to risk his health with these drugs – and, well, just because as an avid cyclist myself, he had become quite a big hero for me. I also figured that the accusation had a lot to do with the fact that the vast majority of French cycling fans really didn’t like Armstrong. He often came across as surly and uncooperative, and did absolutely nothing to ingratiate himself with French fans.

    This was in stark contrast with Greg LeMond, the first American to win the Tour de France, who was very well liked. LeMond was gracious, reasonably friendly and, perhaps, most of all, spoke French quite fluently.

    In one respect Armstrong was probably right of course. I think all the
    principal riders were doping and so there was an even playing field – or an even road, if you like.

    Oh well, another hero bites the dust.

  72. Jerkface January 18th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Nick,

    You should make a LOHUD wiki, your vast knowledge of LOHUD is going to waste on simple call backs.

    Also how mad must Joba be? Even BOONE makes more money than him

  73. yanks61 January 18th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Eureka! You were right, Shame!

  74. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    “What failures am I rewarding them for?”

    You said:

    ” If you want me to count unrealized talent then you will have to acknowledge the list of cost-controlled candidates I presented and project unrealized performance onto those prospects.”

    I said:

    “Why would you do that? That gives management credit for failures.”

    So what I meant is that to fairly assess their record, we need to examine what is rather than what might be.

    Looking at AJack, Melky, IPK, and even Coke, we see players that have had success if you look at their performance over a couple of seasons, because it is not unexpected that young players will often have variable performances as they develop.

    You said Montero “bombed,” yet that is an inaccurate characterization of a player in his first ML season. He had success v. LHP; he had success on the road (Safeco is hardly a hitter’s park); and he hit when he caught.

    You talk about unrealized talent on the way, but that type of uneven development is what the Yankees might have to endure if they want to become good at development.

    It would have been far easier to do that when A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, and others were all cornerstone players. It will be harder without that compensatory force as an offset.

  75. randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    “Maybe drown him in bronze, and then put the bust in Monument Park.”

    no more real bronze monuments. too expensive. hal, from now on, is going with paper mache plaques that are spray painted in bronze paint from now on.

  76. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    I think the million dollar question is this:

    How do Yankees experts, scouts, talent evaluators know who to believe when lay people on LOHUD disagree?

  77. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Rich I will keep it simple. Austin Jackson is the only big producer the Yankees let go.

  78. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Any others outside of him, you have penalized Yankees management for unrealized failure. I contend that there is a tidal wave of unrealized success that crashes over your cherry picking of one player who has not realized a shred of success in the bigs.

  79. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Jeter
    Cano
    Gardner
    Cervelli (since apparently we are using current players on the roster only)
    Pettitte
    Hughes
    Nova
    Phelps
    Rivera
    Robertson
    Chamberlain
    Nunez (possibly)

    Rivera, Pettitte, Jeter weren’t developed by Cashman; he inherited them in their prime. I give him credit for Cano, but he stands out for his uniqueness.

    Robertson is good, but the rest are hardly the high ceiling players I referenced.

    Joba has been jerked around unmercifully.

    Ironically and sadly, if Hughes finally becomes more than a back of the rotation starter, they almost certainly won’t be able to keep him. How they could give Ichiro any of the limited dollars that could have been used to keep Hughes is inexplicable.

  80. jacksquat January 18th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    i’m laughing right now at montero haters simply because the evidence that monetro can catch is pretty obvious.
    the jeff datz interview pretty much says it all.

    You’re a troll trying to “win” one side of an argument.

    Who “hates” Montero? No one that I know of. I haven’t seen a single person here say they hate Jesus Montero. Better choice of words needed. In fact I’ve hardly seen anyone say Montero will absolutely never be good (except to make fun of your posts).

    And I never heard of Jeff Datz before yesterday. Maybe I’m ignorant but I bet hardly anyone who is not a fan of a team he was a part of heard of him either. And for the record, Cashman and Girardi also said publicly that they thought Montero could catch, before he was traded and was still part of the team. So what Jeff Datz said strikes me no differently than than what Cashman or Girardi said when Montero was a Yankee.

  81. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    yanks61 January 18th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Eureka! You were right, Shame!

    —————–

    It’s a weird one.

    Nick – Is that so? Lol, I’ll try to see how long it takes my last one that got stuck to post.

  82. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Any others outside of him, you have penalized Yankees management for unrealized failure. I contend that there is a tidal wave of unrealized success that crashes over your cherry picking of one player who has not realized a shred of success in the bigs.
    __

    Weak.

  83. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    “this is a an interesting point.”

    Thank you. Was it less interesting when I first raised it and you ignored it and replied with that non sequitur about not apologizing for getting off your couch?

    “i didn’t have the problem you have with montero.”

    What problem did I have with Montero?

    “this was just these fans being
    being true believers parroting what yankee management was telling them.”

    Actually, Yankee management fed us lots of material about how Montero’s catching skills were much better than popularly known and all the negative quotes from scouts about him were wrong. Which is one of the reasons I didn’t think they would trade him. Gullible and wrong, maybe.

    What we’re not reading from Jeff Datz could have been cut and pasted from what we were getting from Mark Newman before the trade. I don’t know if they really believed it and then soured on him or if it was all a smokescreen.

    “i’m laughing right now at montero haters simply because the evidence that monetro can catch is pretty obvious.”

    That may be, but the real evidence is what happens in the future.

  84. randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    “Eureka! You were right, Shame!”

    first lesson, shame is always right with the censors.

    i can’t tell you how much it has helped me express myself by her researching what curse words you can say on the blog.

  85. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS

    ellsbury gets $9M. #redsox

  86. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    @JonHeymanCBS

    austin jackson signs for $3.5M. #tigers

  87. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Yes I know Rich, your case of Jesus Montero vs. my list at 12:30 PM upthread, is weak.

  88. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    No no no, the real evidence is what I believe will happen in the future.

    #astralprojectionhouronLOHUD

  89. Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    “Yes I know Rich, your case of Jesus Montero vs. my list at 12:30 PM upthread, is weak.”

    OK, stick to your arbitrary, cherry-picked timelines to measure success, and hold fast to the view that develop can somehow be compressed in neat little linear bows.

  90. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    If that’s how you view the list, fine.

  91. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    “You should make a LOHUD wiki, your vast knowledge of LOHUD is going to waste on simple call backs.”

    You’re right about that second part. It is a complete waste remembering stuff randy said that even randy doesn’t remember and remembering the bizarre interchange between Lost and P about leaving to watch the hockey at Mike’s house and ARGHGHHGHGGH GET IT OUT OF MY BRAIN. :mad:

  92. randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    nick in sf-

    you make it too complicated.

    montero caught in a way this past summer that was in total conflict with what the yankees had implied about him.

    i said he could catch and he did.

    from now on, with catchers ,listen to me before you listen to cashman and yankee management.

    datz is a pretty serious catching coach. he was recruited by the orioles to bring wieters along.
    that was his main job . now he’s saying all these nice things about montero.

    give it up montero haters. you are playing a losing game.
    the only thing that’s going to stop montero is a devastating injury, so i guess there’s still some hope for the haters.

  93. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    “from now on, with catchers ,listen to me before you listen to cashman and yankee management.”

    :lol: This is a nugget. Randy for GM and Yankeefeminista as his scouting director.

  94. jacksquat January 18th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Rich in NJ January 18th, 2013 at 1:22 pm
    Jeter
    Cano
    Gardner
    Cervelli (since apparently we are using current players on the roster only)
    Pettitte
    Hughes
    Nova
    Phelps
    Rivera
    Robertson
    Chamberlain
    Nunez (possibly)

    Rivera, Pettitte, Jeter weren’t developed by Cashman; he inherited them in their prime. I give him credit for Cano, but he stands out for his uniqueness.

    Robertson is good, but the rest are hardly the high ceiling players I referenced.

    Joba has been jerked around unmercifully.

    Ironically and sadly, if Hughes finally becomes more than a back of the rotation starter, they almost certainly won’t be able to keep him. How they could give Ichiro any of the limited dollars that could have been used to keep Hughes is inexplicable.

    Well, you didn’t say Cashman, you said “they” which seemed to indicate “the Yankees”, so I’m going to count everyone who is a Yankee on the team. Even if you don’t want to count Jeter, Pettitte and Rivera, Cashman did have the wisdom to keep them.

    And bottom line, that is still a big chunk of the team. The Yankees don’t lack for home grown players. Take out those three and you still have Gardner in CF (hopefully), Cano at 2B, and Cervelli at C (at least it looks like it right now). Without Rivera, you still have the back end of your bullpen in Robertson and Chamberlain. And obviously Hughes, Nova and Phelps are important pieces. It doesn’t matter if some of these players were mishandled in someone’s opinion or they might not be able to keep them all forever, they are still contributing to the team. You could also count Granderson since we used our developed talent to get him (even if you don’t think it was a good trade).

  95. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    “Eureka! You were right, Shame!”

    first lesson, shame is always right with the censors.

    i can’t tell you how much it has helped me express myself by her researching what curse words you can say on the blog.

    ———————

    I try to pull my weight around here!

  96. johnfrom85thst January 18th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    … over time, maybe the intensity dulls. Maybe the novelty just wears off. …
    I think we’re seeing a lot of that with the Yankees fan base this offseason. Jeter is great and all, but he’s old news. So are Mariano Rivera and Andy Pettitte. Even CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira and Curtis Granderson have grown too familiar to build much excitement. The novelty is long gone

    This sounds like the opposite of a fan to me. Captain Jeter and Mo have been performing for us for 18 years. Two future hall of famers who have brought us many good times, and we want to trade them for novelty?

    A real fan takes the ups and the downs. Jeter’s fall and rise meant more when you had already rooted for him for 15 years – and he had come through so many times. Mo showed us that even the best can lose the 7th game of the World Series. and don’t forget that the Yanks gave him two leads in the 2004 divisional disaster against the Red Sox. But did anyone think Mo wasn’t trying? Of course not. He always gives his best, which has often been THE best. No one has been better.

    Second, if we were the Steinbrenners, would do the same thing for 2014 that they are. When baseball makes an it so onerous to keep spending more than the limit every year, you have to reset. Of course it’s Hal’s fault that A-Rod has the stupidest contract in baseball, taking almost a sixth of the payroll in 2014.

  97. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    I do wonder how Nick in SF can keep a straight face. The guy must be bored out of his mind.

  98. johnfrom85thst January 18th, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    … over time, maybe the intensity dulls. Maybe the novelty just wears off. …
    I think we’re seeing a lot of that with the Yankees fan base this offseason. Jeter is great and all, but he’s old news. So are Mariano Rivera and Andy Pettitte. Even CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira and Curtis Granderson have grown too familiar to build much excitement. The novelty is long gone

    This sounds like the opposite of a fan to me. Captain Jeter and Mo have been performing for us for 18 years. Two future hall of famers who have brought us many good times, and we want to trade them for novelty?

    A real fan takes the ups and the downs. Jeter’s fall and rise meant more when you had already rooted for him for 15 years – and he had come through so many times. Mo showed us that even the best can lose the 7th game of the World Series. and don’t forget that the Yanks gave him two leads in the 2004 divisional disaster against the Red Sox. But did anyone think Mo wasn’t trying? Of course not. He always gives his best, which has often been THE best. No one has been better.

    Second, if we were the Steinbrenners, would do the same thing for 2014 that they are. When baseball makes an it so onerous to keep spending more than the limit every year, you have to reset. Of course it’s Hal’s fault that A-Rod has the stupidest contract in baseball, taking almost a sixth of the payroll in 2014.

  99. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    “you make it too complicated.”

    How so? You mean by asking questions you can’t/don’t want to answer?

    Here’s a question about Montero and I’m not asking to try to turn it into a bet because I don’t have an opinion on the answer. But the question is, will Jesus Montero, if healthy, catch the majority of Mariners games in the month of August 2013?

  100. randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    “This is a nugget. Randy for GM and Yankeefeminista as his scouting director.”

    no yankee feminista should be the new yankee gm.

    her baseball judgements are spot on, and she has more enthusiasm for the yankees than i do .

    probably more than cashman too :)

  101. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    If I was able to wipe my brain of all Yankee and Backstreet Boy knowledge I’m pretty sure I’d be able to build a hyperbolic chamber.

  102. DONNYBROOK January 18th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    The new CBA can NOT be used as an excuse for Hal’s miserly approach to stocking this team, due to the Fact he voted in favor of it. George woulda voted NO, and been vocal about it.

  103. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    There’s also an entire section of my brain dedicated to Divas…and some illegal substances… and the Golden Girls.

  104. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 18th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    “i don’t think montero is going to be a gold glove catcher, but i think he’ll become close to average if he works as hard as nettles did.”

    1. close to average

    2. if he works as hard as Nettles did.

    I am going to go with the premise that you know what you’re talking about here for the sake of discussion – and also that you might know what you’re talking about here.

    So here are my questions to you:

    1. Do fans have the right to want someone who is better than average behind the plate?

    If your answer to that is “yes”, was it then wrong for some Montero proponents to heap abuse upon those fans who may have questioned his catching ability, calling them stupid and saying they knew nothing about the game of baseball?

    2. If Montero does not work as hard as Nettles did and doesn’t become close to average, does it vindicate those fans who felt his catching abililty wasn’t acceptable for the Bronx?

    See I think the real problem is that there’s a chilling atmosphere here for those who – believed in/have adjusted to/are okay with/understood/anything but refused to accept – the Montero trade, and the reality is that nobody corners the market here on truth when it comes to what should or should not happen with any player(s). It’s all a matter of opinion – nothing more, nothing less.

    Claiming victory one way or the other, at any point in time, is reserved for blowhards and idiots, IMO, because the most one can ever say is “that’s the way it worked out for that player, under those circumtances.” You can always guess that something would have worked out a certain way, but of course you can never know. Ask players who have wilted in the Bronx but worked out elsewhere – and vice versa. The most you can do is wish your favorite now-gone players success, if thats how you feel, and adjust to what is as opposed to what could have been or what you think could have been.

    And please don’t embarrass yourself by bringing up my thoughts on Kuroda, thoughts and opinions to which, by the way, I am entitled. I didn’t call people idiots if they disgreed, I didn’t say I was unequivocally right, I questioned whether he could have success in the AL East, and I thought his coming to the Bronx was a mistake. It took some time but I acknowledged that I called it wrong. And you of all people should have been applauding me for questioning your arch-enemy Cashman. But I see you only do that when your opinion of Cashman is being upheld, not when he does something with which you agree.

  105. randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    “Here’s a question about Montero and I’m not asking to try to turn it into a bet because I don’t have an opinion on the answer. But the question is, will Jesus Montero, if healthy, catch the majority of Mariners games in the month of August 2013?”

    nick in sf-

    no one can predict what will happen with a catcher with injuries. look at posey.
    from looking at montero’s career , he is extremely durable . this is an obvious asset to a catcher. posada was absolutely remarkable how he went to very late in his career before hitting the DL for the first time.

    so barring injury, i expect montero to be catching a significant amount of mariner games.
    could they add someone? they could . montero is still young, only 23.
    it would probably be smart for the mariners to add someone who could mentor monteo like girardi di with posada.

  106. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    Answer = no. And Kansas in the finals over anybody.

  107. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 18th, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    And who are the Montero haters?

  108. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    Tony Pena
    Joe Girardi
    Brian Cashman
    Mark Newman

    for starters…

  109. FiretheUMPIRE January 18th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    The bat boy.

  110. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    How does Zumino factor into all of this, randy?

  111. DONNYBROOK January 18th, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    I see Randy is taking short orders in The Waffle House. Just a glass of water please.

  112. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Someone regarding Armstrong wrote about Hero Addiction.. she said, “I loved the mythology.”

    Greek and Roman mythology was one of my favorite topics of study in high school and through college…. I find it fascinating. The Greeks were known to consider fame to be on par with immortality. Takes the whole ‘some things never change’ cliche a whole new level, doesn’t it?

  113. randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    trisha-

    you, like nick in sf, over think what’s going on here.

    i said montero could catch in mlb.
    he precisely did that last summer.

    seattle has now gotten rid of olivo and jaso.
    it’s montero’s job by default… or actually by design.
    read jeff datz. it’s obvious they are high on montero’s catching .

  114. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 18th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    And nick, though it might be that I am neither brilliant nor perceptive, I have “asked” in the past the both brilliant and perceptive question about who holds court when the court is divided. That’s more in reference to fan opinion here and was actually my way of attempting to point out that more-often-than-not there is little unanimity of opinion about anything here (other than wanting the Yanks to be a good team) and to scream “I win” about anything seems to be pretty shortsighted.

  115. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    So Montero is Seattle’s catcher of the future and we know this because it’s obvious they are high on his catching?

  116. randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    “How does Zumino factor into all of this, randy?”

    nick in sf-

    he sounds really good.

    zuminomientkiewicz combined with montero would make quite the dynamic catching duo.

  117. austinmac January 18th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Shame,

    I was with you until you said Golden Girls. Maybe they hit a bit close to home. :)

  118. Shame Spencer January 18th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Logan :arrow:

  119. Nick in SF January 18th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Read Lohud. It’s obvious the Yankees are high on Boone Logan. :neutral: :arrow:

  120. theREALkevin January 18th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    “Austin Jackson is the only big producer the Yankees let go.”

    WTF? He’s had three full seasons to prove what he can do. Montero has had one. Let’s give everyone a fair chance here.

  121. randy l. January 18th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    “And nick, though it might be that I am neither brilliant nor perceptive, I have “asked” in the past the both brilliant and perceptive question about who holds court when the court is divided. That’s more in reference to fan opinion here and was actually my way of attempting to point out that more-often-than-not there is little unanimity of opinion about anything here (other than wanting the Yanks to be a good team) and to scream “I win” about anything seems to be pretty shortsighted.”

    trisha-

    basically you saying that if derek jeter and cal ripken disagree on something concerning playing shortstop we’d all have a tough time knowing who was right.

    well yeah.

    part of what gives fans some fun in baseball is they can be right and the experts are wrong. but i guarantee you that the table is tilted towards people who played the game or who are very close to it.

    as an asdie
    if i had it to do over again in baseball. i’d do two things.
    1 learn spanish
    2 learn all the high level mathematics i could

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