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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pinch hitting: Gordon Stables

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 28, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Up next in our Pinch Hitters series is a communication professor and the director of the University of Southern California’s debate program. Gordon Stables grew up in New Jersey and wrote that he still “remembers the joys of growing up watching Graig Nettles, Reggie Jackson and Thurman Munson” and although he enjoyed the more recent run of championships, Gordon still “wishes there was some way that Don Mattingly could have been part of those 1990s champions.”

For his post, Gordon took a look back at the payroll history of the Yankees compared to the rest of Major League Baseball. His title for this post: Keeping the $189 Million Payroll in Perspective.

Yankees fans expect to see the team compete for a world championship each year.  For many the idea of any fiscal restraint may seem like surrender. In the 40 years of Steinbrenner ownership, the Yankees were never bashful about acquiring high profile and big-ticket players. It seems easy to explain the seven Steinbrenner era championships as the result of seemingly unlimited spending.

The $189 million target has become a lightning rod for fans and media even though Yankees and MLB history suggest that the largest payrolls don’t often offer shortcuts to championships. As Yankees fans, putting the teams recent spending in context of their success may offer a little more perspective on past and future championships. We know the players and the plays, but the budgets are sometimes harder to contextualize.

The 2000s Yankees teams were not like other Yankees teams

Although the publicly available data on salaries makes a complete review impossible, enough information is available to compare spending across the past few decades. Many thanks to Baseball Chronology and Baseball Prospectus for their fantastic salary information. The linked document uses two indexes: Comparison of Yankees salary to the median team salary and Comparison of the Yankees team salary to the top 5 average salaries. These are simple measures of how much all teams paid and how the Yankees compared to the other big revenue teams.

When looking at these indexes it is apparent that, although the Yankees have long been a top salary team, something dramatic happened in 2002.  Although the Yankees regularly had one of the largest team salaries, there were stable comparisons to other teams. The Yankees would have a median salary 150% of the other teams and they would be about 125% of the other top payroll teams.

The 90s dynasty (95-01)

Gene Michael’s scouting and development program combined with a mix of free agents to produce a high salary team, but one that ranged from 150-180% of the median team payroll. Compared to the other top 5 teams, the Yankees had a budget that ranged 108% and 121% of those teams’ salaries. In other words, the Yankees were the biggest spender in all but two years, but their budgets were still comparable to the other top salary teams. This era produced four World Championships and the remarkable 2001 series.

Spending to Retain Status (02-09)

After the 2001 season, a new model took hold where greater spending was needed to retain the core players and to recruit high salaried additions. The 2002 budget was 14% higher than the year before, and the Yankees crossed the threshold of averaging twice that of the median team salary (207%). Within two years the payroll would balloon to averaging over three times the median payroll and peaked at 321% in 2005.

Beginning of the new system (10 – present)

As the greater revenues enter baseball, the Yankees have started to return to more traditional levels of salary dominance. It is easy to say that the Yankees payroll keeps growing ($211 million in 2012), but the levels of the last few years represent a 225%-230% of median payroll and the Yankees are now holding steady at 125% of the top 5 teams’ salary. The move to $189 will likely produce a balance closer to the dynasty years where the Yankees averaged just about twice the median salary.

All of this matters because greater Yankees salary doesn’t make more good players available. Because the Yankees have created their own market, they have to bid against themselves for retaining their own players or attracting free agents.

Spending the most doesn’t guarantee championships

The team remains competitive each year, but being competitive is far from being a world champion. It is easy to blame GM Brian Cashman, but consider how the big spending frustrations extended across the top salaried teams. Since the 2001 season, 15 of the 24 teams that played in the World Series didn’t have a top six payroll. Seven of the 11 champions also were outside that top 6 payroll. Despite the popular perception, only one team — the 2009 Yankees — won a World Series with the top payroll.  

Spending more for pitching doesn’t ensure better pitching

Yankees fans know all too well that part of that problem with top payrolls is that paying more for pitching doesn’t ensure great pitching. Building pitching through free agency is extremely difficult. Beyond the elite successes (Mussina and Sabathia) the failures are incredibly expensive and difficult to overcome. Between 2004 and 2006, the Yankees spent over $95 million dollars on below league average pitching. In those three years, they averaged 62 of their starts and one-third of their innings from these below-average pitchers. Even as the Yankees slowed the spending on outside bullpen arms, the 2010 team had to overcome 340 innings from A.J. Burnett and Javier Vazquez at an ERA of 5.28, with only cost the team $28 million. 

Fans recall how hard it is to send these pitchers to bullpen, despite their performance. Of course big ticket pitchers are not the only to struggle, but by comparison, when Ivan Nova struggles today the team has the option to go to a David Phelps. The decision can be made (and reversed) based on performance, not because of their salary.

Focus on big ticket players has its limitations

Yankees fans who remember the 1980s recall teams that could hit, but aside from Ron Guidry, those teams struggled to provide elite pitching. All too often veteran players also see noticeable declines in their defensive abilities. The 2000s spending teams resembled these teams, and it was not an accident that the 2005 team has been cited as statistically one of the worst defensive teams in MLB history.

Looking for a veteran player both limits opportunities for young players and prevents the team from retaining those prospects. It may have once been hard to trace the connection between free agent signings and compensation picks, but as compensation rules evolve, these lines become blurred. Signing a successful marquee free agent like Mark Teixeira has unquestionably helped the Yankees, even as the Angels received the opportunity to draft both Mike Trout and Tyler Skaggs (now considered the Diamondbacks top prospect). The Yankees wouldn’t give back the seasons of Johnny Damon and Jason Giambi, but those signings produced the compensation picks for Daniel Bard and Joe Blanton, the type of cost-controlled pitchers teams always need.

Fans may dislike letting Rafael Soriano and Nick Swisher depart, but they were functionally being traded for Top 40 amateur players. These ‘trades’ are not visible at the time, but in recent years the team has benefited from this approach in the form of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and (now Diamondback) Ian Kennedy. All came as free agent compensation picks, and they represent an important way for all teams to acquire talent.

The lack of a budget allows agents to pit the organization against itself

How did Rafael Soriano become a Yankee? Why did they sign Gary Sheffield instead of Vladimir Guerrero? Why did they re-sign A-Rod after his poorly handled public opt-out? All of these questions relate to the unique dynamic of being an elite revenue team that could always spend more if it wanted.

At times the key player was Brian Cashman, George Steinbrenner, or Randy Levine. Successful agents like Scott Boras know that the Yankees brand and the Yankees interest in dominating the baseball market (off and on field revenues) means that there is another avenue to pursue if the GM says no. Who knows if Cashman alone would have negotiated with A-Rod in 2007 or perhaps stuck to the original eight-year offer, but the absence of any fiscal restraint allowed the A-Rod negotiations to have logic of their own.

The Yankees aren’t the only team with this challenge, but their revenues and tabloid media outlets make them a prime target. Boras has already begun to promote this strategy with Robinson Cano’s impending free agency. Cano is the Yankees most valuable position player today, but his next contract is likely to play a major role in how the Yankees are constructed for the next 8-10 years. Unlike the A-Rod negotiations, the acknowledgement of a budget will allow Cano’s performance and his contract to both be considered in how the team builds a championship club.

Conclusion – The Next Yankees Championship Club

From the level of despair, it would be easy to think that this was 10 years earlier, when the Yankees had won three straight championships. Instead, Yankees fans watch other teams win and have to consider that, before 2013, the Yankees were the only team in baseball to ever spend $176 million, let alone $189 million, on payroll. The Dodgers will join the Yankees next year, but there is no assurance that the Dodgers’ massive spending will even put them past the Giants or Nationals. The question of the payroll limit is important, but less so than the development and scouting plan that the team deploys. Yankees fans shouldn’t be embarrassed that their organization has the resources and chooses to spend them on the field. We shouldn’t also believe that spending creates champions. Resources are needed to field a competitive team, but MLB and Yankees history suggests the next Yankees champions will be the product of a core of homegrown players and selective free agent additions, not just the highest paid.

Associated Press photos

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127 Responses to “Pinch hitting: Gordon Stables”

  1. yankeefeminista January 28th, 2013 at 9:06 am

    blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:02 am
    Santana is a pretty talented #31
    _____
    The ranking is a falling off, but he was coming back from the ankle injury, playing night games for the first time, and getting acclimated. He was a K machine when I saw him, but improved as the season went on. Interesting to see where they place him.

  2. yankeefeminista January 28th, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Gordon, I think your more than average Yankee fan has generally and smartly advocated for the building and developing of the farm. It has become a no-brainer the last couple of years that that is the key to prosperity in this new CBA landscape. The frustration comes from other teams’ truly developing that integral core with the Trouts of the world while we have yet to do so. That is why I am so farm-focused, and cannot wait to see how our boys do in AA this year.

  3. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 9:11 am

    “The question of the payroll limit is important, but less so than the development and scouting plan that the team deploys. Yankees fans shouldn’t be embarrassed that their organization has the resources and chooses to spend them on the field. We shouldn’t also believe that spending creates champions. Resources are needed to field a competitive team, but MLB and Yankees history suggests the next Yankees champions will be the product of a core of homegrown players and selective free agent additions, not just the highest paid.”

    Pretty hard to disagree with the assertions put forth in this paragraph.

    But how good is the “scouting and development” plan ?

    That’s key to me.

    The scouting portion may be fine.

    What I question is the development portion.

    The Yankee’s seem to be learning that piece on the fly.

    Do they have the patience,people, and perserverance to accomplish that goal ?

    ;)

  4. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 9:13 am

    And now it’s time for the most important meal of the Day.

    ;)

  5. yankeefeminista January 28th, 2013 at 9:13 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 28th, 2013 at 9:01 am
    Yankeefem – no Anderson Feliz??? Thumbs down on that, but that won’t last long.
    _____
    Yep, noticed that. They mostly go with the obvious ones. Let them ignore Feliz and keep him under the radar. He’ll get his.

  6. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 9:17 am

    @BillShaikin

    #Dodgers Mark Walter: “The best way to give our fans what they want–more content and more Dodger baseball–was to launch our own network.”

  7. blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    “MLB and Yankees history suggests the next Yankees champions will be the product of a core of homegrown players and selective free agent additions, not just the highest paid.”

    Sure but that core isn’t ready yet and banking on developing another Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Pettiite, Rivera group isn’t very wise IMO….it’s something you strive for but that is unlikely to happen.

    Fans don’t want the Yanks to operate like they did in 2005 ….they need to be smarter and more efficient than that…..

    The issue is that the yanks have set a payroll number of 189 and over half their operating budget is already tied up in declining players….when that’s the case and you have no prospects close then it creates a problem short term.

    Teams like the yanks should have balance…. They should never have to rely totally on their farm system because its simply to unpredictable to do so.

  8. blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    The Yankee dynasty was built around developing two first ballot HOFers and then 3 more borderline guys all at the same time!

    It’s easy to say well we just need to do that again….but that’s so rare that its unrealistic to expect to ever do that again

  9. yanks61 January 28th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    randy l. January 28th, 2013 at 8:56 am
    yanks61-

    on an off topic subject.
    i’ve been watching the french police drama series “Engrenages” or Spirals on netflix.
    just curious, what’s the french reaction to that show?
    is that an accurate portrayal of the french police/legal system with the fact it’s obviously a tv show and made for entertainment purposes?

    —————————————————————————–

    Randi, except for the news I don’t watch much French TV. Also, I see that it’s on Canal +, (a pay channel) which we don’t get. I had to look up the show on Wikipedia. According to the brief review at the very beginning -

    “La série est supposée montrer de la façon la plus réaliste possible la procédure pénale française, mais cela semble plus exact pour la première saison que les suivantes, d’après quelques avocats et procureurs” – IE. the series supposeedly shows in the most realistic fashion possible French penal procedures, but this seems to be more true of the first season than the following ones according to some lawyers and prosecutors.

    To get a bit more information, I quickly read a review from “Le Monde” which gives it an excellent write-up. Sorry, more than that I don’t know.

  10. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Depending on the farm is always risky buisness IMO.

    The odds of re-developing another “core 4″ are low at best.

    Perhaps 1 or 2.

    The Farm will never be the whole answer for the NYY’s. The dynasty teams also depended on
    strategic acquisitions and role players.

    The philosophy of the O was not the big, hariy monster approach.

    It was the multi-dimensional, we-can-kill-you-in-many-ways approach.

    I’d like to see them get back to that as well.

    :)

  11. blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    Is cano a dodger yet?

  12. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    It’s easy to say well we just need to do that again….but that’s so rare that its unrealistic to expect to ever do that again

    ——————-

    Yeah exactly.

  13. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Blake-

    Alas we have no Stick Michael’s running our development programs at the moment.

    How many of them are there out there anyway ?

    Sure would like to find his “clone”.

    Then we could certainly rest easier.

    ;)

  14. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Blake and I are twin sons of different Mothers.

    But I’m the handsome one.

    :)

  15. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    God to the Yankees :

    “Don’t make me come down there.”

    Time to walk the furry Angels.

    Later.

  16. matthew friedberg January 28th, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Great Article. The cano situation is the one that stands out the most. Yes the huge contracts have proved to kill the yankees and the yankee fans. It’s a miserable situation right now as we got used to the spending sprees that ownership gave us fans to any big impact player on the market. However I think cano is a must sign. I don’t care what people think but truly there is NO 2b in baseball that is going to replace the numbers cano gives the yankees. Yes postseason misery however that sums up the whole team the past couple years. I truly am hoping that with the outfield farm prospects the yankees have in williams heathcott austin Flores that at least two can become a home grown gem that we haven’t had in years. What is Gary Sanchez turns out to be that catcher that replaces posada numbers. What if David Adams or bichette jr work out to be the infielder they need. Montgomery is going to be a huge impact on the bullpen. the possibility of ty hensley or mitchell or banuelos depaula one of them replacing pettite. You could have possibly see a new core 4 or more. Yes it is a lot to ask but I bet before 96 no one predict the core 4 to be what they became. One can only hope and wait I think 2015 could be the year of the prospects and a huge year if maybe homegrown patience works out again

  17. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Deadspin posted an article the other day that implied Cashman might know something the rest of us don’t regarding Arod’s situation for this season… the article kind of implied he might be a part of an investigation regarding PEDs.

    Is this bad news bears..?

  18. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    If Hughes has a big first half.. do you trade him by the deadline assuming you know you want to make a strong run at Cano?

    Or do they wait and see and risk losing both on the market?

    The problem with the deadline moves is that players might be performing so well it’ll be harder to part with them and stay competitive… or they’ll be crap and won’t get us a lot in return. I feel like Phil will be the former.

  19. blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    MTU says:
    January 28, 2013 at 9:29 am
    Blake and I are twin sons of different Mothers.

    But I’m the handsome one.

    MTU looks like a more handsome and rugged Tom Sellick I’ve heard

  20. blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    “If Hughes has a big first half.. do you trade him by the deadline assuming you know you want to make a strong run at Cano?”

    Depends on where they are in the standings I guess…. If they are in contention then hard to trade Hughes

  21. Locke January 28th, 2013 at 9:46 am

    Thanks for the article Gordon. It was really interesting and well written.

    I’m pretty excited about how our core talent seems to be clumped together in high A and AA. I think we will see a lot of good players come up together at the end of 2013 and during 2014.

  22. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    blake – Let’s say they’re 5 games above .500. Nova is pitching .500 ball.. Andy isn’t injured.. and Phelps is doing well in AAA.

    …..This is like the ultimate hypothetical question lol.

  23. blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    It was a very good post though….

  24. blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    blake – Let’s say they’re 5 games above .500. Nova is pitching .500 ball.. Andy isn’t injured.. and Phelps is doing well in AAA.

    It’s just hard to say….the Yanks don’t generally make bold moves like that…..I think you could argue maybe they should in that scenario if they can get a good return…. I just doubt they actually would

  25. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    “The key takeaway for baseball fans here is that the Dodgers are going to be rolling in TV cash for the next couple of decades, and every personnel move they make should be considered against that backdrop. Think of it as the way we thought about the Yankees until about two or three years ago. They will make good deals and bad deals like any other team, but the margin for error is huge because they can eat bad contracts and try again with someone else if things don’t work out. At the same time, there will likely be more pressure for the team to avoid rebuilding periods because they have to consider the TV product — always be exciting, always be relevant — a bit more than some teams do.”

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......rtsnet-la/

  26. blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:54 am

    Screw the Dodgers

  27. blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:55 am

    What makes me feel better about the Dodgers is that I think that club has big flop written all over it….

  28. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 9:55 am

    blake – Yeah I’m not sure they would either but Hughes seems like the one guy they could conceivably move to get a piece back that they need and still compete.

    Of course.. it might hurt you in 2014, but in the words of Scarlett O’Hara: “I can’t think about that right now. If I do, I’ll go crazy. I’ll think about that tomorrow.”

    The alternative might be that Nova or Phelps really show up and we move one of them instead and try to retain both Hughes AND Cano (Team Greedy still lives).

  29. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:55 am

    What makes me feel better about the Dodgers is that I think that club has big flop written all over it….

    ——————-

    A lot can go wrong over there… the problem is, if it does in 2013, it might just motivate them to go insane in 2014!!

  30. blake January 28th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    The Dodgers have a lot of bad money on ther payroll….it’s a situation kinda like the Yanks are in where they have a 200 million dollar payroll but nowhere near 200 million in value on the field IMO….of course they do have Kershaw and Grinke and Kemp….so they’ll be good….but I still like the giants in that division starting the season

  31. austinmac January 28th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    MTU,

    I saw Blake compared his looks to Youkilis. No wonder you’re the handsome one.

  32. Bronx Jeers January 28th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    The Dodgers are the original enemy to fans of a certain age.

    I don’t see the Yanks as sellers come July. They’ll be in the hunt. And I think it’s more likely they’ll retain Hughes over Robbie fit comes down to one or the other.

  33. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    “I saw Blake compared his looks to Youkilis. No wonder you’re the handsome one.”

    I have to take that one back….I don’t want to gross people out

  34. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    I think the Yanks will contend unless CC or cano get hurt….those are injuries they’d have a tough time withstanding IMO

  35. Against All Odds January 28th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 28th, 2013 at 8:57 am
    jmills is not a fake account. That FiretheUmpire, however…. that guy is someone other than who I thought he was, and if I told you, you’d never believe it… but eerily, it adds up. Very eerily.

    ———————————-

    Who do you think it is Prufrock?

    Do you have my e-mail? If not I’ll send it to Chad

  36. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Does Firetheumpire live in Charlotte and study nutrition?

  37. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Does Firetheumpire live in Charlotte and study nutrition?

    —————–

    Lol… you know I had a quick question.. phones have a different IP address than a computer, right? So a poster could easily return after being banned by using a different smartphone or computer, correct?

    And I still think jmills is a phony lol.. did no one else notice all the attempts at baiting last night?? But yes, joeman and Fire are also fake accounts. I highly doubt joeman is WCYF though, since he went out of his way to claim he was.

  38. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    We’ve got bait and switches on top of bait and switches in this biznatch!!

  39. Cashmoney January 28th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi7gwX7rjOw
    ——
    this made me laugh.

  40. Jerkface January 28th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    The Dodgers are going to get 280 million per year, and own their RSN outright. Geez, how ridiculous. That is way better than the 250 million fox deal. To put this in perspective they will end up with around 340 million in revenue simply from TV before they do anything else.

  41. Jerkface January 28th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    FiretheUMPIRE has been putzing around here for a while, so either its a second account made to troll around a long time ago or just another wacky personality here on LOHUD.

  42. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    “The Dodgers are going to get 280 million per year, and own their RSN outright. Geez, how ridiculous. That is way better than the 250 million fox deal. To put this in perspective they will end up with around 340 million in revenue simply from TV before they do anything else.”

    Bye bye Robbie

  43. Yankee Trader January 28th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Deadspin posted an article the other day that implied Cashman might know something the rest of us don’t regarding Arod’s situation for this season… the article kind of implied he might be a part of an investigation regarding PEDs.

    Is this bad news bears..?
    ————————————-
    Shame-

    Is this the article that came out a few days ago that you are referring to?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....-1.1248437

  44. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    I won’t even blame cano for leaving when they offer him a billion dollars next winter….

  45. Cashmoney January 28th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    I thought fire was CR.

  46. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Trader, I was referring to this comment from the article linked below: “His most famous client, Alex Rodriguez, has already had issues with performance-enhancing drugs so his connection—Bosch served as an advisor on “nutrition, supplements and blood analysis”—isn’t unexpected. And it could be that Brian Cashman knew more than he let on when he mentioned Rodriguez could miss the whole year on a radio spot earlier this week.”

    http://deadspin.com/5979370/la.....stosterone

  47. Bronx Jeers January 28th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    I basically go with the assumption that everybody I don’t know is C-R.

    So for the record I’m a 17 year old female currently residing in Boise.

  48. randy l. January 28th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    the yankees need to to make sure if they sign cano to a long term contract that he’s clean as far as PEDS go. i don’t know how it would be written into a contract, but they need a way to void the contract if he’s caught doing PEDS .

    or maybe if it’s a really long contract, they need to make sure he knows how not to get caught and keeps taking them :)

  49. Yankee Trader January 28th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Blake-

    What package of young offensive players do you realistically think the Yankees could get if they traded Cano if the other team was able to extend or not able to extend him?

    Jurickson Profar?
    Giancarlo Stanton?

  50. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    I won’t even blame cano for leaving when they offer him a billion dollars next winter….

    —————–

    Maybe if they have a really good season this year they won’t sign him…

  51. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Maybe we should be calling Crazy Jack to see what part of that Upton package we could get back if we gave him Cano…

  52. Cashmoney January 28th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Maybe we should be calling Crazy Jack to see what part of that Upton package we could get back if we gave him Cano…
    ———
    that’s actually not the worst idea in the world, I think they have 2b but i guess for Cano they can move him. the problem is i don’t see Ms committing the dollar amt to keep him and certainly I don’t think they just want him for one year.

  53. Cashmoney January 28th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    I think you will have far more dance partners at TD, and not just for Cano, hence i am hoping yanks charging out of gate 5-25, go ahead boys, suck it up this year.

  54. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    “Yankee Trader says:
    January 28, 2013 at 10:29 am
    Blake-

    What package of young offensive players do you realistically think the Yankees could get if they traded Cano if the other team was able to extend or not able to extend him?

    Jurickson Profar?
    Giancarlo Stanton?”

    Neither of those guys….I think they could get a good return though. Id probably try to gut Seattle for him maybe…, or go to Washingon or Detroit and see what they’d offer

  55. Yankee Trader January 28th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Shame-

    Thanks for the other link. Testosterone-the new PED of choice. Wouldn’t be surprised if there is a current suspicion surrounding ARod.

    However based on his surgical procedure, he’s probably going to face chronic arthritis and maybe, like Mike Napoli, will eventually need hip replacement therapy.

  56. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Blake-

    Tom Sellick ?

    Maybe a shorter,poorer, way uglier version.

    :)

  57. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    I think their is zero chance they trade Cano but if Jack Z wanted to give me Walker, Franklin, and Montero for him Id think about it…..then Id try to sign Cano in the winter

  58. Jerkface January 28th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    I’m speaking here of Jacksquat, but it I can remember when you were even casting Blake, of all people, in that light.

    As for accusing America of being the epitome of racism or sexism, well I can’t really say. There certainly is plenty of it, to be sure. However maybe it would be instructive to cast your net far wider.

    Yanks61, I never said Blake was racist, we just had a discussion about stereotypes good or bad and why they are racist. I think everyone would be better served if they understood the difference between people being an active racist and doing or saying things that could be construed as racist. Or that we should be able to discuss something that is ‘racist’ even if it is on the lighter side of what that word entails without everyone getting up in arms. This is where the culture bit comes in, because where you live fundamentally alters your perception and behaviors and can lead to completely normal people having racist ideas or reactions or saying something innocuously racist (see: David Cone / chop sticks). It seems that when the R word is used, some people seem to take that as meaning a KKK cross burning mofo, instead of all the shades and degrees that can be held under its umbrella. It is not an ultimate insult to be levied only in the harshest of circumstances. I also never said Jacksquat was racist or sexist, just that he has certainly said some curious things the past few days.

    The reason why I do not bring up other countries is because we do not live in them. I never said the US is the epitome of anything negative, just a very good example of how a nation which is, actually, the epitome of diversity can be a great example of how pervasive racism & sexism can be. Are there worse places in the world? Sure, but most of the posters here do not live in them. :) And tying this to my point above, one of the reasons it is difficult to talk about either subject is that no one likes negative descriptors so the mere mention of either word has everyone up in arms. Instead of doing the adult thing and stepping back and going “You know what, that’s racist, ok cool I’m going to try to change a little bit” they have to defend it to the death and blame everything for being PC or whatever.

  59. Bronx Jeers January 28th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    What kills me is ARods 30MM “marketing agreement” I mean how are the yanks still obligated there? Where’s the marketing for that?

    “Come and watch our jerk that cheated chase down that bigger jerk that also cheated for the biggest bullsh*t record in pro sports!”

  60. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    “Maybe a shorter,poorer, way uglier version.”

    Just go with it man….

  61. randy l. January 28th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    yanks61-

    thanks on your response on the french crime show, spirals.
    it’s interesting as an american because our system doesn’t have the equivalent of the investigating judge who works closely with the police. the other thing that’s amazing watching as an american is how the victim and the accused sit at a desk in front of the investigating judge and the judge asks questions with the two people only feet apart sitting beside each other. in america, there’d be fisticuffs at every other meeting like that. it seems to be an old fashioned way at getting at the truth. kind of a put everyone in a room together and root out the truth with the investigating judge acting as a facilitator.

    anyway it’s interesting seeing a different approach to getting at truth. for anyone who has netflix, there’s three years of episodes streamed.

  62. Yankee Trader January 28th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Cash-

    The team that trades, in-season, for a player that is going to be a FA, can’t currently get a compenstory pick if that player leaves at the end of the season.

    That might effect the return for Cano, unless, and a big if, the team can extend him, knowing Boras likes to take his players to FA.

  63. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    From what “Fire” has stated here (which is always open to question) he lives on the NJ shore and has been going thru some incredibly hard times.

    His home was ravaged by Sandy and he is still dealing with the aftermath.

    Not only that but his ‘significant other”, who was a co-owner, has retuned to Costa Rica and left him holding the bag.

    I’m not saying all he said was true but if it was I feel great empathy for him, and I am more than willing to cut him some slack.

    Of course, it entirely possible that he is playing me for the fool but that’s OK.

    It won’t be the 1st or last time that happens.

    So until decided otherwise he gets the benefit with me.

    That’s my 2 cent’er

  64. Yankee Trader January 28th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Time for me to go. BTW, MTU, thanks again for the pics.

    Can’t wait for baseball to start!

    Have a great day.

  65. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    I’ve got you guys fooled into thinking I live in the south and am a dentist….it can happen

  66. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    YT-

    Your most welcome.

    Same here. Time for the specualtion to stop for a while and for the real thing to start.

    have a good one.

  67. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    I’ve got you guys fooled that I’m attractive!! Anything is possible..

  68. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Shame Spencer says:
    January 28, 2013 at 10:53 am
    I’ve got you guys fooled that I’m attractive!! Anything is possible..

    Better than than looking like Youkilis right

  69. blake January 28th, 2013 at 10:58 am

    I remember when the YES network have the Yanks an advantage over everyone else….that was cool

  70. CCBiggs January 28th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    There was no “logic” to the Arod re-signing. Arod came crawling back to the Yankees, with no other serious options, and the Yanks then showered him with a new contract that was far, far beyond what any other team would or could offer. Where is the logic in that?

    As I said at the time, the Yankees Arod contract was the single worst contract in the history of sports. Even if Arod is productive for seven of the ten years (and he won’t be), that’s still $80-90 million wasted.

  71. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Is JF still around? I wanted to ask him about that list from 2003. I did some research and it’s apparently a fake.

  72. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Also, his points on discussing racism are spot on. Just saying the word or saying ‘that seems racist/sexist’ doesn’t automatically make someone an awful person or racist/sexist. There’s no reason to be so defensive.

  73. Bronx Jeers January 28th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    I consider every female in here my girlfriend. Unfortunately, they’re all dying of leukemia. :wink:

  74. AAA January 28th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Kelly Johnson goes off the board, but lands in AL East.

  75. blake January 28th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    “There was no “logic” to the Arod re-signing. Arod came crawling back to the Yankees, with no other serious options, and the Yanks then showered him with a new contract that was far, far beyond what any other team would or could offer. Where is the logic in that?”

    Well he was a 9.7 fWAR player at the time….it’s not like they signed Delmon Young to that deal…..ill advised and short sided yes….the dumbest thing anyone has ever done in sports…. Not really IMO.

    There was a perfect storm of events that led to Arods contract…,the Pujols one the Angels did was dumber because they had an example right in front of them of what not to do and they ignored it

  76. blake January 28th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Kelly wasn’t scrubby enough for Cash

  77. blake January 28th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Shame Spencer says:
    January 28, 2013 at 10:59 am
    Is JF still around? I wanted to ask him about that list from 2003. I did some research and it’s apparently a fake.

    I consider it real because it had Boston players on it

  78. randy l. January 28th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    “I’ve got you guys fooled that I’m attractive!! Anything is possible..”

    that’s right, i’m actually brian cashman :)

  79. blake January 28th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    “that’s right, i’m actually brian cashman ”

    You really must dislike yourself :)

  80. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    Arod had an incredible year before he opted out and our team wasn’t looking all that great without him… It wasn’t the smartest move, but what they’ve done since has been worse given that they already knew they were carrying a risky commitment.

  81. jacksquat January 28th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    In my opinion, words like “racist”, “bigot”, “misogynist” (which means hatred of women) should stop being thrown around on this blog without very good reason to use them. Not just because someone comments on a certain player not hustling or that they weren’t a fan of some player, etc.

  82. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    blake January 28th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Shame Spencer says:
    January 28, 2013 at 10:59 am
    Is JF still around? I wanted to ask him about that list from 2003. I did some research and it’s apparently a fake.

    I consider it real because it had Boston players on it

    —————

    Lol, it did/does look very legit. Kind of incredible someone may have spent that much time creating a fake.

  83. blake January 28th, 2013 at 11:13 am

    I think it’s easy to jump to conclusions on things….for example when someone says they don’t like Tiger Woods….there is no reason to conclude that it’s because of race….I like Tiger but there are a whole host on non-racial reasons someone may not like him including him just beating your favorite golfer

  84. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    jacksquat January 28th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    In my opinion, words like “racist”, “bigot”, “misogynist” (which means hatred of women) should stop being thrown around on this blog without very good reason to use them.Not just because someone comments on a certain player not hustling or that they weren’t a fan of some player, etc.

    ——————

    No one called you a racist for that. Ever. Not even once.

    The words are usually applied to a discussion, trend, or wording and not a specific person. I can’t recall JF calling blake a racist, for example, as yanks61 stated.

  85. Against All Odds January 28th, 2013 at 11:15 am

    randy l. January 28th, 2013 at 11:07 am
    “I’ve got you guys fooled that I’m attractive!! Anything is possible..”

    that’s right, i’m actually brian cashman

    —————————-

    If that’s the case what do you think about Blake’s trade proposals :D

  86. Jerkface January 28th, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Uh, once again you have totally misunderstood. My comment about calling people bigots and racists was directed at certain people on this blog inappropriately calling other people a “bigot” (happened today) and other people such as JAP, YF and yourself saying if you call latino players lazy you might be a racist. Really getting tired of that crap. Which is worse, sexist jokes or calling people bigots, I don’t know. Both have no place on this blog. Get it now?

    Jacksquat, I think for sure sexist jokes are worse than calling someone a bigot, so maybe this is the disconnect. I only think the former has no place on the blog. You need to be able to use the latter because how else can issues be addressed? Did you read the article from the atlantic I posted? It was based on research done by 2 people who hired 15 other people to watch tons of baseball and record every adjective used to describe players of color or not. It turns out there is something a little racist about calling latino players lazy. You can do it all you want, but you should be critical of yourself in why you are calling Cano lazy and not calling Teixeira lazy for the same thing. And I again point out that you are probably not a ‘racist’, but the fact that minority players have negative descriptors attached to them more frequently than white players is evidence of racism. I’m sorry if JAP or YF actually called you a racist, but reading where this started it seemed you took offense to a generalism JAP made about how latino players are characterized on this board. I guess you could just be protecting your right to call Cano lazy, but is that really something you need to fight for? You took pretty hard offense to something which has been proven by a study to actually exist.

    I also don’t know why you think I’m misinterpreting anything you’re saying. You said this regarding race:

    “Sometimes I think the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction…”

    So do you actually believe that or are you just being a contrarian? And if the latter why do you think racism is where contrarians are needed?

    Then your reply to JAP’s story about sexism. Which was weird! In my experience, anyone who would rather try and twist something into pointing out how a person who is anti-sexism is actually the real sexist is not on the right side of an issue.

  87. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    Mr. Squat-

    People can sometimes be reactive around here. It’s in the nature of the beast.

    There seems to be a lot of good folks here.

    At least that’s the way I see it.

    I’d probably enjoy having a beer with most of them and swapping stories.

    :)

  88. randy l. January 28th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    “If that’s the case what do you think about Blake’s trade proposals”

    blake is really randy levine and he should really just be in charge of hotdog sales and not making trades over my head.

  89. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Randy called tom a bigot yesterday for what I think was a comment he made earlier in the week. Tom seemed to think we were discussing people using the n-word, which I don’t think was quite the purpose of the posts, but it was being discussed. Tom then posted a comment that a black friend of his used it (to what point, I’m personally still not sure). Randy linked the two points up regarding Tiger Woods and tom’s usage of the word. Bigotry is in the eyes of the beholder and we can let those two battle that one out, I think, without sinking the blog into chaos. If Chad thought anyone should be banned for anything posted, he would have taken action I’m sure.

    Sometimes we are just genuinely misunderstanding each other and it’s a product of things outside of our control.

  90. DONNYBROOK January 28th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Everybody Knows that the team with the highest payroll is Not guaranteed a Championship. We Know that, because year after year we continue to see that. The Yankee problem for several years has been drafting and developing Bushers. To date, even Phil Hughes has Not lived up to his previous billing. By now, Hughes should be a #1 Chucker, much like Cole Hamels. Hal’s got the $$$ to spend on guys like Hamilton. He should spend it on Star players like that, and hire new draft evaluators and developemental coaches. If he does Not wantta do that, he should sell the team. He’s dragging this team down to a level many of us have Not seen since the CBS ownership days.

  91. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Or possibly even taking them out on a hike.

    The ones who don’t pass muster get the Red Sux treatment.

    :)

  92. AAA January 28th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Hughes should be a #1 Chucker, much like Cole Hamels.

    ===========================

    Why? He doesn’t possess Hamels’ level of talent

  93. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    I do think if we all got together we’d have a pretty good time… I don’t think anyone in here is a bad person, but it’s best to keep the discussion respectful even if someone does think what another poster is saying is offensive (obviously there are exceptions to every rule and we can’t always keep our cool when we should).

    I’d still be down to go and visit tom and Mrs. tom.

  94. Against All Odds January 28th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    randy l. January 28th, 2013 at 11:21 am
    “If that’s the case what do you think about Blake’s trade proposals”

    blake is really randy levine and he should really just be in charge of hotdog sales and not making trades over my head.

    ———————

    Lol funny stuff

    http://i1051.photobucket.com/a.....an-lol.gif

  95. Against All Odds January 28th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    So I’m guessing Jerkface is really Hal. How else can one person know every single detail of the budget and not work for the team

  96. Jerkface January 28th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Suckers!

  97. tomingeorgia January 28th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Shame,
    Thank you, and you’re always welcome here.

  98. Against All Odds January 28th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:25 am
    I do think if we all got together we’d have a pretty good time\

    I don’t think anyone in here is a bad person,

    ——————————

    Trolls included?

  99. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Jerkface isn’t even a real dude, he’s just a super computer that’s figured out how to communicate with the outside world like in iRobot or Wall-E or Terminator.

    (In my mind, JF is Wall-E.)

  100. ac1 January 28th, 2013 at 11:30 am

    I am hoping with news that the Yankees may not make back what they think they will in the CBA staying under 189, that this is just a 2014 thing (to get down to whatever percentage it is if they get under 189 in 2014). I can deal with 1 season of watching the younger guys play if we know in 2015 we are back to a nice mix of youth and vets…

  101. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    Against All Odds January 28th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:25 am
    I do think if we all got together we’d have a pretty good time\

    I don’t think anyone in here is a bad person,

    ——————————

    Trolls included?

    —————–

    Lol, I think most of the real trolls on here are just one or two guys… sometimes I’m pretty sure they’re arguing with another one of their alter egos and it’s amazing. I’d invite them to and we can get a dunk-tank situation going…

  102. DONNYBROOK January 28th, 2013 at 11:33 am

    Before Hughes threw pitch 1 at the MLB level, we were all told that this guy was an Ace-in-waiting. He’s currently a 3 Slot Chucker. Go-To-Black.

  103. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Donny is Donnie Wahlberg (Red Sox AND WaffleHouse fan, btw) ;)

  104. Against All Odds January 28th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    If it’s seriously just one or two guys then damn what’s the end game.

    “sometimes I’m pretty sure they’re arguing with another one of their alter egos and it’s amazing.”

    Yea I’m sure that happens all the time.

  105. randy l. January 28th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    shame-

    very good analysis.

    tom and i can both take care of ourselves. there is no need for anyone else to jump in unless they want to for some reason.

    though i do see some good discussion on other related issues.

    for my part, i’m drawing a line on what i’ll let pass, i let the original discussion go by without saying anything , but the second time i felt a line should be drawn. if nothing else all of us need to watch our biases, including me.

    some people like austin mac told me i had crossed a line. ok , i look at it. somehow, i don’t think we hear an ambiguous opinion from tomingeorgia complaining because he can’t use certain words and someone else can. and we’ll see me being more careful how i phrase something while i pay attention to austin mac’s opinion.

    it’s lines being drawn and worked out. not necessarily a bad thing.

    and i did give tom in georgia room to explain why he didn’t root for tiger when tiger first came up when it was apparent to anyone that tiger woods played a major step in advancing equality in golf.

  106. Against All Odds January 28th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    FWIW I don’t think Donny or Duh Innings are trolls. I think they actually believe what they come up with

  107. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Oh geez….

    ?@Deadspin

    VIDEO: Lance Armstrong “singing” Radiohead’s “Creep” is strangely haunting: http://deadsp.in/6E15aTe

  108. blake January 28th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    “blake is really randy levine and he should really just be in charge of hotdog sales and not making trades over my head.”

    I like hot dogs

  109. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    Shame-

    I welcome all LoHudder’s to explore Utah with me.

    So I can show them up close and personal how beautiful the Creation truly is.

    Free guided tours by MTU.

    Some have actually already taken advantage of that free service.

    ;)

  110. AAA January 28th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Before Hughes threw pitch 1 at the MLB level, we were all told that this guy was an Ace-in-waiting. He’s currently a 3 Slot Chucker. Go-To-Black.

    ===============================

    Projection vs. reality.

    Hughes was the 23rd pick in 2004. He has the 7th highest WAR among 1st rounders in that draft (Verlander, Weaver, S. Drew, Street, B. Butler, and Gio Gonzalez are higher, only Street and Gonzalez were selected after Hughes). Hard to argue with getting the 7th best guy with the 23rd pick.

  111. yanks61 January 28th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    “It seems that when the R word is used, some people seem to take that as meaning a KKK cross burning mofo, instead of all the shades and degrees that can be held under its umbrella. It is not an ultimate insult to be levied only in the harshest of circumstances. I also never said Jacksquat was racist or sexist, just that he has certainly said some curious things the past few days. ”

    —————————————————————————–

    Thanks for your reply JF. As usual, you make a number of good points. I have a great deal of respect for both your BB knowledge and your views on the world in general. And JS can certainly speak for himself here, and does so very well. I just thought you were reading too much into what he was saying. But that’s where one’s perspective plays a very big roll.

    You’re obviously, and correctly, very sensitive about the subject. I have to tell you, here in Europe, we do a fair amount of fooling around about other ethnic groups and, for the most part it’s all in good fun. It’s not like the old days, though, when The Kingston Trio would sing something like, “oh the French hate the Germans and the Germans hate the Dutch – and I don’t like anyone very much!” It’s a remarkable and long overdue accomplishment that has transformed Europe into the EU. And it hasn’t been easy.

    I worked for Alitalia for fifteen years back in the States. I remember going to northern Italy and hearing a beautiful young lady from Milan telling me and some friends that she wished that all of Naples would be washed to the sea in the next earthquake. Now that’s awful! The racial hatred can even be inter-regional – even existing within countries!

    But sometimes what you see as shades of racism in someone’s remarks (and I’m not relating this to JS in this instance) can actually just be playful expressions of affection. The Cone remark may or may not have been that – IDK. But, I’ve had colleagues in the UK kid me about my Irish or American background and I considered those people to be good friends and took the kidding in that spirit – and kidded them back in the same way. IDK, maybe it has something to do with male bonding because it never occured with females (Uh, oh, now I’m going to be accused of being sexist! :))

    I’ll just say in closing that I don’t personally see anything racist about JS’ remarks and I can understand him taking umbrage at the implication. But then maybe I’m just very dense! Age does that to people you know (I’m an oldtimer and a self-hating ageist!)

  112. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    Blake-

    I like beer and hotdogs better.

    But that’s just a personal preference.

    :)

  113. Hassey January 28th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Tom VErducci just tweeted that Cashman signed Carl Pavano’s spleen as a low risk, high reward insurance policy

  114. jacksquat January 28th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Jerkface January 28th, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Jacksquat, I think for sure sexist jokes are worse than calling someone a bigot, so maybe this is the disconnect. I only think the former has no place on the blog. You need to be able to use the latter because how else can issues be addressed? Did you read the article from the atlantic I posted? It was based on research done by 2 people who hired 15 other people to watch tons of baseball and record every adjective used to describe players of color or not. It turns out there is something a little racist about calling latino players lazy. You can do it all you want, but you should be critical of yourself in why you are calling Cano lazy and not calling Teixeira lazy for the same thing. And I again point out that you are probably not a ‘racist’, but the fact that minority players have negative descriptors attached to them more frequently than white players is evidence of racism. I’m sorry if JAP or YF actually called you a racist, but reading where this started it seemed you took offense to a generalism JAP made about how latino players are characterized on this board. I guess you could just be protecting your right to call Cano lazy, but is that really something you need to fight for? You took pretty hard offense to something which has been proven by a study to actually exist.

    I also don’t know why you think I’m misinterpreting anything you’re saying. You said this regarding race:

    “Sometimes I think the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction…”

    So do you actually believe that or are you just being a contrarian? And if the latter why do you think racism is where contrarians are needed?

    Then your reply to JAP’s story about sexism. Which was weird! In my experience, anyone who would rather try and twist something into pointing out how a person who is anti-sexism is actually the real sexist is not on the right side of an issue.

    Why is a sexist joke worse? Bigotry is obviously a very bad thing, so how would you feel if someone called you a bigot or said you were acting bigoted? You wouldn’t be offended?

    As for the article, I never said racism does not exist at all. What I don’t want is any time a negative comment is made about a non-caucasian player someone instantly throws the racism card on the table. Also one shouldn’t have to try to think of some caucasian player like Teixeira to also mention to “balance” things.

    Frankly I’ve forgotten the context of the “pendulum swinging” comment. Maybe you have something in mind though since you persist in mentioning it?

    As for JAP and his sexism bit, maybe like you say people can be racist and not realize it, people can be sexist and not realize it. Do you think it’s not possible that a man always making arguments about sexism is in fact trying to protect women, implying they need protection in an intellectual argument, which is in fact sexist? Did you not understand the “sheath your sword” comment? When I see a lot of grandstanding I tend to start questioning the motives.

  115. MTU January 28th, 2013 at 11:44 am

    This long, dull OS has lot’s of people on edge.

    It’s a little like “The Shining”.

    Too long w/o real baseball is bad for one’s mental health.

    ;)

  116. Jerkface January 28th, 2013 at 11:46 am

    Yanks61, yer a good dude. I’ll say this about Cone’s remark. Its fine if you and your multi-cultural friends have a go at each other because you’re all good friends and know its all fun. Cone is a broadcaster speaking to millions of people, not his friends, and there is nothing documented about Cone & Ichiro being besties, or Ichiro referring to his bat as a chop stick, or any kind of baseball hit being called a chop stick. It was a racially tinged remark that would be weird if said in reference to a non-asian player and racist if said in regards to an asian one. So in that case best just leave it unsaid. Its not often how or why you say something, but when you do it that makes all the difference.

    I’ll also say that for all the trouble that the rest of the world has with these issues, being mostly homogenous nations is part of the problem, at least the world soccer leagues have been trying to fight back. They have run a pretty good campaign to try and stop racism.

  117. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:48 am

    tom – I won’t pretend I wasn’t a bit confused about the story you had posted, but I know that’s not an uncommon assertion to make when discussing the word. But I don’t think anyone here is ever intentionally hateful. We all interpret things very differently based on our own experience.. some good… some not so much.

    If randy had a strong opinion of it at the time, he probably should have mentioned it then instead of applying it to a discussion that was (very likely) unrelated.

  118. Jerkface January 28th, 2013 at 11:48 am

    Why is a sexist joke worse? Bigotry is obviously a very bad thing, so how would you feel if someone called you a bigot or said you were acting bigoted? You wouldn’t be offended?

    Because one is perpetrating something that hurts half the world, the other is at best a misnomer with almost no consequences.

  119. Jerkface January 28th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    JS,

    I just can’t agree with calling out every guy who is trying to talk about sexism. That movement needs a male voice, specifically one in the male dominated areas of culture. It would be one thing if JAP were going out to feminist rallies or places predominantly female and ‘grand standing’, but he is doing it on a blog that is almost guaranteed to be 90% straight, white males.

  120. Hassey January 28th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area we call the LoHud Yankees blog

  121. yanks61 January 28th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    “The words are usually applied to a discussion, trend, or wording and not a specific person. I can’t recall JF calling blake a racist, for example, as yanks61 stated.”

    “I also never said Jacksquat was racist or sexist, just that he has certainly said some curious things the past few days.”

    Shame & JF – OK, my bad for saying that if I did (I don’t recall now) as opposed to what I should have said, which was that that SEEMED to be the IMPLICATION (sorry about the caps – don’t know how to italicize on here.) Otherwise, I just have to brush up on my reading skills. Obviously they’ve languished over the years :)

  122. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 11:54 am

    The word ‘chink’ had only been applied to two other players in the span of last year and one was Jeremy Lin and the other was Yu Darvish. I’m sure some will assume coincidence, but that’s a bit naive, IMO. I recall having the discussion on here and the majority of the posters at LoHud believed the remarks to be innocuous and nothing to get up in arms about. In the same discussion, someone (trolling) posted the n-word. No one called him out on it because no one wanted to even touch it.. for that, I don’t blame them. The point though is that a discussion over the apparent innocuous use of a term like ‘chink’ encouraged someone to take it a step further. You see this a lot in situations like this. This is why we need to be very aware of what terminology we use and why it’s important to be mindful of our words. Words matter very much.

  123. DONNYBROOK January 28th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Some of you sensitive types need to walk through a locker room every decade or so. This type of vernacular is as common as dropping an F-Bomb, and there is normally No ill intent intended. I submit Torii Hunter as Exhibit A.

  124. randy l. January 28th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    “I like beer and hotdogs better.”

    mtu-

    at ballpark, if i have one , i tend to want the other :)

  125. Shame Spencer January 28th, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    I’m not sure lockerroom talk is the standard by which we should measure ourselves, Mr. Wahlberg ;)

    :arrow:

  126. Jerkface January 28th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    One reason I may seem sensitive to these issues is because I am actively trying to change for the better. I spend a lot of free time, when not telling Brian Cashman how much money he cannot spend, reading articles or personal perspectives on these topics. That is because my main hobby areas: Guns, Games, Sports, & Nerd stuff are all some of the worst when it comes to perpetuating sexism either by female exclusion, or the crappy attitudes of the members involved.

    I think it would be cool if baseball became more progressive, so I am working towards that goal.

  127. Bo knows January 28th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Even in sports, players who face adversity together bond, disregarding race or culture. Now in the military which would foster team, to the exclusion of all else, I would think racism would be a non factor. I would hazard a guess that Tom, who’s gone through combat, would qualify as a racist. That would be the ultimate reality check. Gut check comes first.

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