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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Rodriguez denies allegations

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 29, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

From the Yankees, a three-sentence no comment.

“We fully support the Commissioner’s Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program. This matter is now in the hands of the Commissioner’s Office. We will have no further comment until that investigation has concluded.”

From Alex Rodriguez, as first reported by Joel Sherman, an absolute denial.

“The news report about a purported relationship between Alex Rodriguez and Anthony Bosch are not true. Alex Rodriguez was not Mr. Bosch’s patient, he was never treated by him and he was never advised by him. The purported documents referenced in the story — at least as they relate to Alex Rodriguez — are not legitimate.”

The Rodriguez statement came from the Los Angeles based PR firm Sitrick And Company.

Comments

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465 Responses to “Rodriguez denies allegations”

  1. pkyankfan69 January 29th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    This is going to be fun…

  2. blake January 29th, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    Arod was just getting the drugs for his good buddy Big Papi

  3. Niblick January 29th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Of course he’s going to deny it. What choice does he have? His career is over if he doesn’t deny it.

  4. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    I say we just let Arod do a self investigation and see how things play out…

  5. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    It stuns me that after what we’ve seen happen to Roger Clemens, Lance Armstrong and so many others that guys still think it’s a better play to deny than to admit, even as the evidence piles up.

    At this point Alex, just own it. Own it like your centaur portrait and your frosted tips (THERE ARE PHOTOS). Own it.

  6. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    He has no choice but to deny this report in order to staunch the media feeding frenzy. If the report is true, the damage is done and irreparable. If, at some point, he decides to make a public act of contrition, nothing he says or does now will really matter.

    The unfortunate thing is even if the report isn’t true, he may not be able to convince people of that because of his low public standing, unless the investigation clears him.

  7. Mike Ri January 29th, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    9 out of 10 times . . .. whens theres smoke . . theres fire

  8. William Buckner January 29th, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    What was last time there was good Arod news?

  9. pat January 29th, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    I say we just let Arod do a self investigation and see how things play out…

    He could hire David Ortiz’s PI.

  10. G. Love January 29th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Mike,

    I agree with you although Clemens pretty much proved that denying it has it’s benefits. If you’ve got enough money and deny it long enough you’ll probably win by default.

    That being said, the truth always comes out in these situations and if you did it, you should just own up to it and move on.

  11. blake January 29th, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    Shame Spencer says:
    January 29, 2013 at 12:35 pm
    I say we just let Arod do a self investigation and see how things play out…

    This!

  12. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    The only reason I can see for denying Clemens admission to the HoF is the apparent lying.

  13. Tackelberry January 29th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    Where have you gone Jackie Chiles? Arod turns his lonely eyes to you….. WOO WOO WOO!!!

  14. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Roger’s career was effectively over by the time his name was dropped in the Mitchell Report. A-Rod technically still has five years left on a contract. Hip injury aside I can’t see how you can play that out with such question marks over your head.

  15. blake January 29th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Rich in NJ says:
    January 29, 2013 at 12:40 pm
    The only reason I can see for denying Clemens admission to the HoF is the apparent lying.

    He was cleared of perjury though….

  16. Phranchise January 29th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Oh boy. Well let’s put it like this. Everything has to be on the line with this. If they find a connection and prove it, there has to be a lengthy suspension or something that has to benefit the Yankees no?

  17. blake January 29th, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    @TBrownYahoo: Beyond A-Rod’s statement, source says he will deny using PEDs during time frame described in New Times report.

  18. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    I think Jim Callis said it best on twitter. The top 10 picks are protected not the 10 worst teams. The Mets know this rule as do every other team in MLB. If they want the player they lose the pick. If they want the pick don’t sign the player.

    Mike Ferrin brought up a good point just now: the pick the pirates got for not signing anyone is ALREADY protected. You can’t lose it due to signing a free agent, even if it is outside of the top 10. So I really do not think it should count. Its getting double protection + removing the protection from a team that should have it.

  19. Joe from Long Island January 29th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    1. like g.love in last thread, i’m not really worked up, more disappointed. i would have thought he knew better at this point, but i guess not. ego and arrogance are a powerful combination, especially in someone who’s whole identity is tied up in being a very high-achieving professional athlete.

    everyone deserves to tell their side of the story, and we should not rush to judgement, but this just seems to stink.

    2. i wonder if the yankees knew something was up. remember when cash said that it’s possible that alex might not play this season? we all thought he was referring to the hip surgery, only. maybe cash had something else, in addition to the surgical result, on his mind.

    3. i wouldn’t be surprised if the yankees have their lawyers figuring out the chances to get out of the contract, either by nullifying it – i doubt that would be possible, alex would fight it tooth and nail – or by pressuring him to take a buyout.

    if the contract is somehow negated, and alex released, i wonder how long it would take for someone to seriously suggest that the yanks should bring him back on a one year contract as dh?

    5. i think to use this episode to tarnish other players, without hard evidence, is sad. to presume guilty until proven innocent is always sad.

  20. FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    “id like to see the yankees just come out right now and say if this is true, they will never allow him to wear a yankees uniform again.

    they can and should try to get whatever relief they can from the contract and the salary cap, but no matter what the end result should be no more arod in pinstripes.”

    This guy ain’t sniffing Monument Park, let alone the HOF.

  21. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Just to continue my thought a little bit, the cat is already out of the bag with Alex and PED use. It’s just a matter of degree at this point. If it were Jeter, say, whose name was in this story, it might be a different play. But for Alex, public perception is so low, all you’re doing by denying is prolonging the bleed as the questions will just keep being asked. There’s comparatively little shock value though if he owns up.

    I recognize too that there are probably legal and contractual reasons obliging him to deny.

  22. FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    Favorability All-Time Low

    a) GOP – congress
    b) Lance Armstrong
    c) Alex Rodriguez

  23. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    “He was cleared of perjury though….”

    So you believe that the public should think that he never used?

  24. FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    The Arod saga has put this entire franchise in a state of paralysis. The front office must be going nuts figuring out how to handle him, his contract and the situation. It must be a total drain on energy and resources (obviously).

  25. G. Love January 29th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    joe from LI,

    Good to see you.

    I agree with you that Arod and all the other guys on this list/notebook/ledger should be allowed to defend themselves.

    I just think with some of the names on there it’s going to be tough for them to come out winners based on prior history and suspensions.

    But yes, I am numb to it.

    The only thing that would ever make me not be numb to this kind of news now is evidence that Jeter or Mo used. That would devastate me and truly shock me.

  26. Ys Guy January 29th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    ” William Buckner January 29th, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    What was last time there was good Arod news?
    ===================================
    the day he announced his opt-out.

    unfortunately hank snatched defeat from the jaws of victory….

  27. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    “So you believe that the public should think that he never used?”

    Nah the public is gonna believe whatever they want and has that right….but regards to the HOF if he was tried for perjury and cleared then that should be considered IMO. I think he and Bonds should be in anyway though

  28. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    If Bourne will do a 1 year deal and the mets want somebody similar then lets sign Bourne and trade them Gardner for Wilmer Flores

  29. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    blake

    The HoF isn’t a big deal to me at this point, so I’m ok with letting them in. But if they aren’t voted in, imo, the lying, not the PEDs, should be the reason.

  30. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    I seriously doubt a player layed up till after the All-Star break, has placed the “entire franchise in a state of paralysis”. Hilarious

  31. Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    unfortunately hank snatched defeat from the jaws of victory….

    —————————

    Blame Hal too. He was there working on the deal as well

  32. Tackelberry January 29th, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:05 pm
    If Bourne will do a 1 year deal and the mets want somebody similar then lets sign Bourne and trade them Gardner for Wilmer Flores

    ________________________________

    Is Bourne any better than Gardner?

  33. Bronx Jeers January 29th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    @OldHossRadbourn: Another damning document emerges in the A. Rodriguez case. http://t.co/daNruThA

  34. vrsce January 29th, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    Time to take a buyout and retire. It would be a huge benefit for the Yankees. ARod is a curse, at this point. Thanks to Hank S.

  35. Luds January 29th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Ehhhhhh.

    That sucks. I was staying positive, hoping he’d put all that crap behing him, hoping his rehab would go well, and that he’d come back with a vengeance after the break this season and look good. Realistically, hoping for a return to his 09 form, .286/.402/.532. Damn!

  36. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    “Is Bourne any better than Gardner?”

    A little yea IMO….they are similar but Bourne is a better hitter and is more durable. I wouldn’t make the swap unless I was getting a good prospect for Gardner though….he’s not that much better

  37. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    If Bourne will do a 1 year deal and the mets want somebody similar then lets sign Bourne and trade them Gardner for Wilmer Flores

    ———————-

    I dunno if it’s a bad idea.. but they might not want to give up the pick either.

    I do like Flores a lot though… I just don’t think the Mets would part with him.

  38. Duh Innings II January 29th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    If the allegations of PED use by A-Rod are true, A-Rod will not be inducted into the Hall Of Fame.

    The Yankees should permanently disabled list, banish, and exile him, offer him half his remaining salary at the end of every year 2013-16 and if he doesn’t accept after 2016 just cut him and eat the $20M for 2017.

    If it means Nunez or whoever at third in 2014 so be it.

    Anyone who says A-Rod wouldn’t care if he was banished, oh yes he would.

    1. He’s at only 647 homeruns. If he misses a year or two, he can kiss breaking the homerun record goodbye as no way he hits the 116 homeruns he’d need to break the record in 3 or 4 years left under contract and think again if you think A-Rod wants his pursuit of the homerun record slowed down any more than it already has been.

    2. He hasn’t made any of the $30M in homerun milestone money yet being 13 homeruns short of the first milestone.

    3. The longer he sits out and doesn’t retire (go away), the more the HOF voters will consider him a cheating, pay me for nothing, disruptive, distracting bum unworthy of the HOF. Imagine him never playing the game again yet being paid for his entire contract after 2012. That’s FIVE YEARS of paid inactivity after three seasons he cheated (2001-03), four seasons where he probably cheated (2004-07), three good but not through 2007 great A-Rod seasons (2008-10), and two awful seasons (2011-12), so what does that leave A-Rod? ive solid seasons to kick off his career (1996-2000)? Not enough.

    A-Rod should just go away and leave the money on the table because to take it is legal theft he ought to be ashamed of himself for taking.

  39. kd January 29th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    if this isn’t true- then someone in miami is on a lot of trouble

    if this is true- then the yankees need to take a stand and void arod’s contract

    he’s denying it, but i can’t see the yankees being ok with him using again. he embarrassed them once, not twice

    plus if his contract is off of the payroll then cano becomes much more of a possibility

  40. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    I dunno if Bourn is actually better than Gardner. He is better in some areas, but I don’t think he has Gardner’s on base ability. He strikes out more. He doesn’t steal at as good a success rate. I think they are equal defensively, but Bourn has played CF more recently. They are basically the same age. Bourn has a little more practical power more likely, but I don’t think he is a lock to hit for a higher average than Gardner.

    Bourn is interesting because he hasn’t had much linear success in the majors. I’d rather not give up the pick for him, though trading Gardner for someone like Flores would make up for that.

  41. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    plus if his contract is off of the payroll then cano becomes much more of a possibility

    It wont be off the payroll.

  42. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    “He was cleared of perjury though….”

    Yeah, OJ was cleared of first-degree murder too…

    ********************

    I only read the report in the paper, have not read posts in the previous threads, so I don’t know what ramifications we’re dealing with or what ramifications have been discussed.

    If I am reading this correctly, Arod admitted to using PEDs, and did so in 2009. The report in question deals with 2009 and the previous 4 years. If I am correct on that, if there are alleged entries after Arod made his admission, then there could be big problems. If Arod has not tested positive since his admission in 2009, I don’t see there’s anything that MLB could do to him, nor the Yankees, unless I guess they (the Yanks) saw it as a way out and used some kinds of morals clause, if there is one in their contracts (moral turpitude). If it is found that
    he was using prior to his 2009 admission and after he said he had stopped, I would think the only hit would be to his reputation – and any HOF chances that he still might have had – not that those things are small potatoes.

    Am I missing anything here?

  43. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 11:31 am
    Someday, if you are capable, your son might use these clowns as his role model, with your advisement of course, and damage his health. This will begin happening down the line if it hasn’t begun already.

    Have some faith in science, Mick. In the future if ‘PED” type drugs that accelerate healing are readily available I will bathe my kids in them.

    Steroids and HGH have side effects. You really should learn about the stuff before advocating them as if they were Flintstone vitamins.

  44. Warning Track Power January 29th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    William Buckner January 29th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
    What was last time there was good Arod news?
    —————————————————————————————–
    When it was announced his hip surgery was a success
    and his return was approx 6 months away
    I think that is very, very good news

  45. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    “Bourn is interesting because he hasn’t had much linear success in the majors. I’d rather not give up the pick for him, though trading Gardner for someone like Flores would make up for that.”

    I don’t think there is a ton of difference in them….but I do think Bourne is a little better hitter and has a better track record of health….like I said…I wouldn’t make the swap just to do it….but if I could get a good prospect for Gardner and Bourne woukd do a one year deal then I would

  46. vrsce January 29th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    It may be off the payroll, if he is offered a buyout. Unless you, Jerkface, have inside information. Perhaps you are Hank?

  47. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    As for the Arod/Melky/Cano “trio”, does Cano train in Miami? I thought he trained at “Camp Cano” in the DR. I don’t think there is a direct connection for Cano. Although that doesn’t mean he hasn’t used.

  48. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Steroids and HGH have side effects. You really should learn about the stuff before advocating them as if they were Flintstone vitamins.

    And nothing ever progresses? Lots of things have side effects. My point in making that statement is that we are moving forward as a species, not backwards, towards technological & biological achievements unimaginable.

    To take such an archaic stance on these scientific developments is detrimental to our very survival as a species. Note that I said if they are readily available. Doctors have been working on a pill that would cause the body to increase the natural production of HGH to help heal injuries. If this was a pill available OTC, you wouldn’t take it? Even if it gave longer, healthier life? You won’t vaccinate your kids?

    And honestly if my son wants to be a swole ass body builder, its his body, he can go ahead and I’ll help him do it under doctor’s supervision.

  49. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    I’d be all about trying to get Flores right now… I just don’t know that the Mets part with him.

  50. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    Also….Im not sure Gardner really is that .380 OBP guy from a couple of years ago….I think he’s closer to the .345 OBP guy he’s been the rest of his career and that’s pretty muh what Bourne is too…..only Bournes OBP is made up with a better BA…

  51. rozcoe99 January 29th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    This is a taylor-made situation for the Yankees front office to void A-Rod’s contract. Sure, there would be a great deal of legal wrangling, but it is an option to void the remaining years left on his contract.

    A buyout at reduced levels would greatly help the Yankees get under their budget constraints for 2014 and beyond. Clearly, A-Rod has been operating under fraudulent conditions if this story proves to be true.

  52. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    vrsce January 29th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    It may be off the payroll, if he is offered a buyout. Unless you, Jerkface, have inside information. Perhaps you are Hank?

    ——————-

    This is in the CBA. Nothing gets Arod off the payroll, not even a buyout.

    The only way the money comes off is if he agrees to forfeit it and retire.

  53. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    It may be off the payroll, if he is offered a buyout. Unless you, Jerkface, have inside information. Perhaps you are Hank?

    CBA says no buyout, it will still count. The MLB is not so easily tricked. Or else every team who bought out a player would devise payment schemes where the player gets his money AND doesnt contribute to the luxury limit.

  54. vrsce January 29th, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    That is bad news. A death sentence for five years.

  55. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    “Steroids and HGH have side effects. You really should learn about the stuff before advocating them as if they were Flintstone vitamins.”

    Hell yeah! Congress got heavily involved since some highschool ball players who had used steroids had committed suicide and all of that was in the news around the time that Canseco’s book came out. Weren’t there also a number of steroid-using wrestlers who killed themselves and/or killed their spouses? Steroids are far from benign! On top of it, it’s been proven that the body eventually starts to break down after continued use.

  56. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Also….Im not sure Gardner really is that .380 OBP guy from a couple of years ago….I think he’s closer to the .345 OBP guy he’s been the rest of his career and that’s pretty muh what Bourne is too…..only Bournes OBP is made up with a better BA…

    He did put up a .380 though, where as Bourn never has. Bourn is much more likely to be a .340 guy than a .380 guy. Gardner has done it. Gardner’s done it in the minors more than Bourn as well. Gardner walks 3-5% more than Bourn, so if he brings his AVG up at all he is going to out OBP Bourn.

    Bourn definitely brings more durability to the table though.

  57. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Shame Spencer says:
    January 29, 2013 at 1:33 pm
    I’d be all about trying to get Flores right now… I just don’t know that the Mets part with him.

    He’s kinda blocked

  58. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    JF,

    That’s true….I just think Bourne brings a little more certainty overall as a player

  59. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    I hate to say it, but the best thing that could happen would be for Arod to have been found using since his admission. It would get the Yanks out from under a very heavy contract and would free up money. It certainly seems that Arod is nowhere near the player we knew him to be at some point in his career.

    That said, he would have to be both the most stupid and arrogant fool if he did. I think the combination of stupidity and arrogance should be enough to void any contract! :D

  60. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:33 pm
    Steroids and HGH have side effects. You really should learn about the stuff before advocating them as if they were Flintstone vitamins.

    And nothing ever progresses? Lots of things have side effects. My point in making that statement is that we are moving forward as a species, not backwards, towards technological & biological achievements unimaginable.

    To take such an archaic stance on these scientific developments is detrimental to our very survival as a species. Note that I said if they are readily available. Doctors have been working on a pill that would cause the body to increase the natural production of HGH to help heal injuries. If this was a pill available OTC, you wouldn’t take it? Even if it gave longer, healthier life? You won’t vaccinate your kids?

    And honestly if my son wants to be a swole ass body builder, its his body, he can go ahead and I’ll help him do it under doctor’s supervision.

    We aren’t living in the future. Steroids can definitely hurt you (as we have all seen) and HGH is not a OTC drug. If in the future HGH becomes like protein powder, then the rules can be changed and we can feel alright about it being legal to use. But as of now there are very good reasons for it to be illegal, against the rules, considered as cheating, etc.

  61. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    Tejada did have a really good 2012 season for a rookie…. hmmmm… maybe we should be trying to get him.

    Or just get the Cuban and trade nothing.

  62. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    I dont think whatever marginal advantage bourn has is worth a draft pick + having to find a new CF in 2014.

    But I wouldnt be against a shrewd trade & sign if it came down to it.

  63. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    “CBA says no buyout, it will still count. The MLB is not so easily tricked. Or else every team who bought out a player would devise payment schemes where the player gets his money AND doesnt contribute to the luxury limit.”

    Most teams could care less about the luxury tax though cause they don’t pay it….the seems almost to have been written to make no way for the Yankees to get away from Arod

  64. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    There’s no precedent for voiding a contract due to PED usage… It’s very unlikely that even if Arod was found to have tested positive that this helps the Yankees in any respect.

    The only way to get out from the money we owe him is if he retires and forfeits the money.

  65. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

    We aren’t living in the future. Steroids can definitely hurt you (as we have all seen) and HGH is not a OTC drug. If in the future HGH becomes like protein powder, then the rules can be changed and we can feel alright about it being legal to use. But as of now there are very good reasons for it to be illegal, against the rules, considered as cheating, etc.

    I’m not sure there are very good reasons for any of those things, especially your third point about cheating. Maybe we could progress faster if we were not limiting everyone’s safe access to these things.

  66. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    “CBA says no buyout, it will still count. The MLB is not so easily tricked. Or else every team who bought out a player would devise payment schemes where the player gets his money AND doesnt contribute to the luxury limit.”

    Most teams could care less about the luxury tax though cause they don’t pay it….the seems almost to have been written to make no way for the Yankees to get away from Arod

    ————–

    Eh, it’s not really designed for Arod or the Yankees.. it’s designed to make sure teams that commit to a contract have no loopholes for not paying out. It’s contracts 101, really.

  67. Bronx Jeers January 29th, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    @YankeeSource: ‘Cacique’ in archaic English, is a title derived from the Taíno word for the pre-Columbian chiefs. #ARod http://t.co/iI3S1RzU

  68. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    “I dont think whatever marginal advantage bourn has is worth a draft pick + having to find a new CF in 2014.”

    I don’t either unless you’re getting a good player for Gardner…..

  69. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    “Maybe we could progress faster if we were not limiting everyone’s safe access to these things.”

    Please define safe access, as you are intending it to mean.

  70. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Eh, it’s not really designed for Arod or the Yankees.. it’s designed to make sure teams that commit to a contract have no loopholes for not paying out. It’s contracts 101, really.”

    All we are talking about is the luxury tax though….and really that only affects 2 teams

  71. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Basically while steroids or HGH may have side effects, if a player wants to use them they should be allowed to. The existence of side effects does not negate the benefit of drugs. Everything has side effects.

    And a lot of the trouble with steroids & HGH being used illegally is that it is not being used under doctor’s supervision and the substances may be tainted or of dubious quality.

  72. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    And last I saw, assisted suicide was against the law, except in Oregon, Washington, and Montana…

  73. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    Please define safe access, as you are intending it to mean.

    Players should be doped all to hell under the watch & care of team physicians. People in general should be allowed access to whatever, administered & advised by doctors.

    You buy something in a back alley and shoot it up in a bathroom or a gym changing room, and yea you may get a lousy bargain.

  74. FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    “Basically while steroids or HGH may have side effects, if a player wants to use them they should be allowed to. The existence of side effects does not negate the benefit of drugs. Everything has side effects.

    And a lot of the trouble with steroids & HGH being used illegally is that it is not being used under doctor’s supervision and the substances may be tainted or of dubious quality.”

    Wheaties, the breakfast of champions.

  75. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    Eh, it’s not really designed for Arod or the Yankees.. it’s designed to make sure teams that commit to a contract have no loopholes for not paying out. It’s contracts 101, really.”

    All we are talking about is the luxury tax though….and really that only affects 2 teams

    ——————–

    Yeah I know but… Mo’ money mo’ problems.

    The Yanks knew all this info even with the old CBA. The reasoning behind the rules are pretty sound. They could just eat it and still be a good team lol. Right now they’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. There’s no way to void the deal… and they’re probably going to let it effect the product on the field.

  76. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    And last I saw, assisted suicide was against the law, except in Oregon, Washington, and Montana

    Hyperbole, using PEDs is not assisted suicide. Or have you been suing the crap out of every bar in the US while no one was looking?

  77. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Now would be a good time to get Olt or Headley or Gordon or someone… anyone..

    We need a 3B.

  78. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    There’s not a strong link between suicides and steroid use.. there’s no causality proven there. I’m not endorsing usage, but the link is weak at best.

  79. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    Jerkface, this is like a dog chasing its tail with you. PED – performance enhancing drug. MLB wants players to be playing on an even playing field. That’s reason enough to ban them. Your argument it with yourself if you choose to believe they don’t enhance performance because myriad studies disagree with your take.

  80. blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    “We need a 3B.”

    We have Youkilis !

  81. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Some of the stuff from that Jayson Taylor article.. which was all done under the supervision of doctors and medical professionals.. seemed extremely unsafe.

    That article was horrifying.

    I don’t think people fully realize what these guys put their bodies through.

  82. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    “There’s not a strong link between suicides and steroid use.. there’s no causality proven there. I’m not endorsing usage, but the link is weak at best.”

    Have you read the studies?

  83. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    PED – performance enhancing drug. MLB wants players to be playing on an even playing field. That’s reason enough to ban them. Your argument it with yourself if you choose to believe they don’t enhance performance because myriad studies disagree with your take.

    Link to these studies please. Because there have not been ANY conclusive studies that link PEDs with on field performance.

    And if MLB wants an even playing field then legalizing everything is also an option. In only one of these scenarios are players using these substances safely: Mine. While in both scenarios players are STILL USING.

    Naive if anyone thinks they will ever stop players from using.

  84. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    “We need a 3B.”

    We have Youkilis !

    —————————-

    Could we get Flores and make him a 3B lol? He might come cheaper than Olt and the rest.

    Orrrrr…. we can get that Cuban kid and make him a 3B.

  85. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    “Hyperbole, using PEDs is not assisted suicide. Or have you been suing the crap out of every bar in the US while no one was looking?”

    Actually, it wasn’t meant literally jerkface. :roll:

  86. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    Legitimate testosterone/steroid therapy under a real doctor’s care is usually about restoring testosterone levels to normal levels. It’s not about making the levels much higher than normal to make super athletes or bodybuilders. Taking people to abnormal levels is going to have side effects and won’t be accepted in the medical community if even made legal.

  87. FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    “Ys Guy January 29th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
    ” William Buckner January 29th, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    What was last time there was good Arod news?
    ===================================
    the day he announced his opt-out.

    unfortunately hank snatched defeat from the jaws of victory….”

    Not gonna say who but someone in here was obviously elated when Hank pulled that trick. Euphoric even.

  88. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    @Jerkface at that stage the game is less about finding the most talented players willing to work the hardest and more about finding the guys most willing to push the envelope of pharmaceutical technology. It’s a different skill set and not one I’m sure benefits the sport long-term.

    That is to say nothing of the long-term implications of PED use. There are definite parallels to what the NFL is dealing with now with respect to brain injuries.

  89. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Taking people to abnormal levels is going to have side effects and won’t be accepted in the medical community if even made legal.

    There is a whole field of cosmetic surgeons who probably disagree :) Transhumanism is the future, folks.

  90. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    “There’s not a strong link between suicides and steroid use.. there’s no causality proven there. I’m not endorsing usage, but the link is weak at best.”

    Have you read the studies?

    ———————-

    I have actually, and there’s no causality proven. There are a lot of factors for why people commit suicide and since it has been on the rise (in young people, especially) it’s even harder to determine one cause.

    I’m not endorsing PEDs but in contact sports specifically, one thing that has been proven is that head injuries are linked to depression.

  91. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Link to these studies please. Because there have not been ANY conclusive studies that link PEDs with on field performance.

    Then why have you been advocating their use here for years and acting excited about the possibility? Why would you want something that does nothing? Because you know they increase performance.

  92. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    jerkface, it’s pointless since you’ve already convinced yourself that they don’t enhance performance. And you know there’s lots out there that says the opposite. It’s what you choose to believe.

  93. Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:33 pm
    Steroids and HGH have side effects. You really should learn about the stuff before advocating them as if they were Flintstone vitamins.

    And nothing ever progresses? Lots of things have side effects. My point in making that statement is that we are moving forward as a species, not backwards, towards technological & biological achievements unimaginable.

    To take such an archaic stance on these scientific developments is detrimental to our very survival as a species. Note that I said if they are readily available. Doctors have been working on a pill that would cause the body to increase the natural production of HGH to help heal injuries. If this was a pill available OTC, you wouldn’t take it? Even if it gave longer, healthier life? You won’t vaccinate your kids?

    And honestly if my son wants to be a swole ass body builder, its his body, he can go ahead and I’ll help him do it under doctor’s supervision.

    ——————

    Ppl don’t realize how medical advancements are being made on an extraordinary level. Does anyone think PEDs will be illegal forever? Does anyone think the side effects of today will be there yrs from now? There might be different side effects but it won’t be the same. Hell the roids being used in the 50s aren’t the same as the ones they are using now

  94. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    @Jerkface at that stage the game is less about finding the most talented players willing to work the hardest and more about finding the guys most willing to push the envelope of pharmaceutical technology. It’s a different skill set and not one I’m sure benefits the sport long-term.

    -

    The best players still have to work and you still need talent. Plenty of crap players get popped for PEDs who amount to nothing. I don’t think it would change things much from where we are now.

  95. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    There’s a big difference between correlation and causality, by the way. It’s very annoying and makes my head hurt. Long days in statistics classes breaking these things down have left life long scars.

  96. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    I’m waiting on an athlete at the Professional level, to come forward and say he Consistently used the Juice, and it did absolutely NOTHING to improve his performance. Where are these guys if the stuff does Nothing to improve performance?

  97. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Shame, do you disbelieve all of the anecdotal stuff too? Do you know what some of the side effects of steroid useage are?

  98. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    jerkface, it’s pointless since you’ve already convinced yourself that they don’t enhance performance. And you know there’s lots out there that says the opposite. It’s what you choose to believe.

    Trisha, find me some links, because there is not LOTS OUT THERE. What is out there is the opinion of sports writers and whoever, not scientific studies about the on field performance.

    The ‘evidence’ that steroids help baseball players is stuff like ‘Bonds used, ergo, it helps!’ or ‘players wouldnt use it if it didnt help!’ which is not science.

  99. FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 1:56 pm
    Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Link to these studies please. Because there have not been ANY conclusive studies that link PEDs with on field performance.

    Then why have you been advocating their use here for years and acting excited about the possibility? Why would you want something that does nothing? Because you know they increase performance.

    :lol:

  100. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Does anyone think PEDs will be illegal forever?

    ——————-

    If PEDs are made legal before weed is I’m quitting this country, btw.

  101. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    “Could we get Flores and make him a 3B lol? He might come cheaper than Olt and the rest.”

    Well that was my plan…at least maybe he’d be ready next year

  102. PacoDooley January 29th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Some thoughts – Bourne is clearly better than Gardner, largely because the latter has little proven track record and has had a lot of injury problems.

    As for this comment:

    Ys Guy January 29th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
    What was last time there was good Arod news?
    ===================================
    the day he announced his opt-out.

    ————————-

    I disagree – before the opt out he was on a decent contract from the Yankees perspective. They had Texas paying a lot of his salary and his deal was set to end at around the age you would want a guy to be done. The opt out was a serious blow, and the team were idiots to return to him and outbid themselves. He got at least $100M more than he should have given the level of competition for his services and his likely decline…

  103. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    “I’m waiting on an athlete at the Professional level, to come forward and say he Consistently used the Juice, and it did absolutely NOTHING to improve his performance. Where are these guys if the stuff does Nothing to improve performance?”

    They’re likely few and far between.

  104. Don January 29th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    A-Rod should just go away and leave the money on the table because to take it is legal theft he ought to be ashamed of himself for taking.
    ————————————-
    He is shameless.

  105. FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    Who are you going to use as your study group for such experiments? Of course that research doesn’t exist.

    Who’s going to fund research where illegal drugs are administered to study subjects whose levels of HgH and Testosterone are normal? Better yet, who’s going to be able to sneak that proposal passed an IRB?

  106. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
    blake January 29th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    “We need a 3B.”

    We have Youkilis !

    —————————-

    Could we get Flores and make him a 3B lol? He might come cheaper than Olt and the rest.

    Orrrrr…. we can get that Cuban kid and make him a 3B.

    Wilmer Flores is a 3B now. No one things he is a SS and most doubt he is even a 2B. He played the most games at 3B last year.

    I suggested Wilmer a couple months ago here but hardly anyone paid attention. Maybe I should just send my suggestions to blake from now on…

  107. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Then why have you been advocating their use here for years and acting excited about the possibility? Why would you want something that does nothing? Because you know they increase performance.

    Because I don’t care if players use anything that they think gives them an edge. And there is a difference between the enhanced performance being hitting more HRs or something vs having the energy to play more each day or returning from injury quicker.

  108. kd January 29th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    what would it take to trade for flores? mets need starters… nova?

  109. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    Shame, do you disbelieve all of the anecdotal stuff too? Do you know what some of the side effects of steroid useage are?

    —————————

    No I don’t disbelieve it but it’s very hard to pinpoint where depression begins.. especially for people that take PEDs and play physical sports. It’s not easy to determine which factor is more or less at play in the outcomes.

    NFL players take a lot of PEDs and lots of them die young… but ALL of them play a physical sport. That very often results in head injuries. It’s extremely difficult to parse out what the cause of depression is when you have all these circumstances on the table.

    So there’s no causality that’s been proven between steroids and suicide. It doesn’t help that, like I said earlier, the rate of suicide has risen across the board and not just in people that use or play sports. That adds another layer of uncertainty.

  110. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    @LookoutLanding

    every time there’s a steroid scandal without any Mariners in it it’s like come on guys are you even trying

  111. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    “I suggested Wilmer a couple months ago here but hardly anyone paid attention. Maybe I should just send my suggestions to blake from now on…”

    Did you suggest a way to get him? Or just that they should …..he’s most see him as a 3B now or LFer

  112. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Trisha,

    If he is proven to have used I am not sure there is any way to get out from under the contract absent suspension by MLB. I had argued fraud before entering into his 2007 contract, but since this occurred after, that doesn’t work.

    Legal theories? Trust me the Yankees and I are both interested.

  113. FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    You’re never going to be able to prove causation when such proof requires a research design that violates law and ethics. No IRB would approve of it and therefore it can’t be peer-reviewed and given any credence in the scientific community.

  114. Bronx Jeers January 29th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    ARod has hired atty Roy Black who is famous for defending William Kennedy Smith.

    You don’t have to be a lawyer to see that a name written in the notebook of a sleazeball doesn’t really amount to much but I heard an editor at the Miami New Times say that they did their due diligence in corroborating this story. I’d like to know what else they have.

    The athletes that only had their names in the ledgers but no corroborating evidence were left out of the story in the paper.

  115. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Ckd says:
    January 29, 2013 at 2:02 pm
    what would it take to trade for flores? mets need starters… nova?”

    They need outfield help badly and if they want Bourne then perhaps they’d be interested in Gardner or Granderson

  116. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    jacksquat,

    Please filter all your posts through Blake. :)

  117. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Actually research does exist, though your point is well taken.

    But I don’t think anyone should be influenced by science, nor should they be influenced by statistics that don’t involve MLB umpires…

    http://www.dukechronicle.com/a.....al-suicide

  118. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    kd January 29th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    what would it take to trade for flores? mets need starters… nova?

    ————————

    I might do it. Depends on how much stock you put in the minor league numbers, and I haven’t personally seen him, but based on just stats he looks like he should translate at the big league level. I wouldnt want to give up a ton for him, of course, being unproven. But maybe a one for one deal could do it.

  119. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    You’re never going to be able to prove causation when such proof requires a research design that violates law and ethics. No IRB would approve of it and therefore it can’t be peer-reviewed and given any credence in the scientific community.

    Well oh my how do we ever do any scientific studies on recreational drug use? If only there was a way to find these users and allow them to participate anonymously or with confidentiality agreements.

  120. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    The best players still have to work and you still need talent. Plenty of crap players get popped for PEDs who amount to nothing. I don’t think it would change things much from where we are now.

    —-

    Obviously this is true, but having the league and the PA sanction PED use implicitly makes it also a contest of who has the better doctor as well. Unless you authorize a uniform, league-wide PED system where each player receives the same amount, or the same level relative to their physiology or whatever. At which point all you’ve done, presumably, is inflate numbers across the board. What’s the point of all that?

  121. Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:59 pm
    Does anyone think PEDs will be illegal forever?

    ——————-

    If PEDs are made legal before weed is I’m quitting this country, btw.

    —————–

    lol

    it probably has a better chance at happening.

  122. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    “I don’t either unless you’re getting a good player for Gardner…..”

    I’d rather keep Gardner and trade Granderson. It can’t all be about 2013.

  123. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    squat – I’m sorry I was too busy trying to get other, better players lol. Now that they’re all off the table I’m with you on Flores. He looked like he got most of his time at SS, so I didn’t know what role he would be a better fit for.

  124. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    austin, the only thing I think could work would be the moral turpitude clause. But I don’t know if those exist in MLB contracts. I’m thinking not because there have been reports of domestic violence, DUIs, tc., and those players are still playing. UNLESS – the clauses are there and teams choose to use them conveniently!

  125. theREALkevin January 29th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    “I’m waiting on an athlete at the Professional level, to come forward and say he Consistently used the Juice, and it did absolutely NOTHING to improve his performance. Where are these guys if the stuff does Nothing to improve performance?”

    Those guys don’t exist. Because it does help. On the other hand, you will find plenty of quotes from guys admitting that the only reason they made it to the majors was because they used.

  126. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Jerkface,

    I agree with you in part on PEDs. If they are prescribed by a medical doctor to help the body heal from injury and are taken for that limited period, I am not sure the problem absent proof they are otherwise harmful.

    That is quite different, in my mind, that taking steroids to add 20 pounds. That changes the playing field since the body becomes unnatural.

  127. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    If true, there has gotta be a money trail. Lotta money involved. Also, there was a page marked 2012, meaning this is allegedly Not confined to “09″ and before.

  128. Chip January 29th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    The conversation between Heyman and Francesa was interesting about whether or not Alex just turns around and says “eff this, I don’t need the nonsense. I’m not going to the hall of fame, I’ve got to go through all this rehab and deal with the media slamming me for steroids. I’m going to do an injury settlement and call it a career.”

    I think that’s likely BS based the fact that Alex went out and hired this lawyer to try and disprove this story.

    What would be fantastic is for Hal to turn around and say, “screw $189, we’re releasing Alex, eating the contract and moving forward.”

  129. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Actually research does exist, though your point is well taken.

    But I don’t think anyone should be influenced by science, nor should they be influenced by statistics that don’t involve MLB umpires…

    http://www.dukechronicle.com/a…..al-suicide

    ———————-

    There are certainly links.. but like I said, it’s really hard to pick out causality. There aren’t even a ton of strong cases made for correlation in these instances.

    Suicide studies in the US are scary without even considering PED usage.

  130. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    “I’d rather keep Gardner and trade Granderson. It can’t all be about 2013.”

    Yea but then you’d have an outfield that hits like 12 homers combined….I’m hopeful either Heathcott or Mason is close at the end of this season….

  131. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    By the way, this is the title of the article I linked to, in case you didn’t care to read the article”

    Studies link steroid withdrawal, suicide

  132. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Trisha,

    I don’t know if such a clause exists, but if it does I would think, off the cuff, that the specific PED provisions might supercede it. I am far from an expert in this, but surely the Yankees are having lawyers look at their options very closely.

  133. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    There aren’t even a ton of strong cases made for correlation in these instances.

    Yea 3% of reported cases, and they suggest it is the lack of testosterone that causes it. Maybe if these kids were using under a doctor’s supervision instead of in secret, which itself can be a factor in their depression, they would not be suicidal.

    The link here isn’t use steroids = depressed and suicidal. Its much more complex!

  134. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    @austinmac @jerkface I also agree on that point. To me in that sense it’s no different than using cortisone, which is allowed.

  135. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:59 pm
    Does anyone think PEDs will be illegal forever?

    ——————-

    If PEDs are made legal before weed is I’m quitting this country, btw.

    —————–

    lol

    it probably has a better chance at happening.

    ————————

    I seriously forget weed is even illegal… this is probably how pro-athletes feel about steroids. For anyone that didn’t read that article about Jayson Taylor, please do so as soon as you can. That was brutal to get through but extremely insightful.

  136. Chip January 29th, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    Can we please drop the silliness that steroids and HGH don’t help players perform at a higher level?

  137. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    “I seriously forget weed is even illegal…”

    Is that a side effect or a feature? :P

  138. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    “There are certainly links.. but like I said, it’s really hard to pick out causality

    Not for the scientists doing the studies. And that was only one study.

    Did you read the story on Taylor Huntoon? I did, back when Congress was holding its initial hearings. Read it sometime and you might become a little more convinced.

  139. Chip January 29th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    “I’d rather keep Gardner and trade Granderson. It can’t all be about 2013.”

    Yea but then you’d have an outfield that hits like 12 homers combined….I’m hopeful either Heathcott or Mason is close at the end of this season….
    ————–

    Isn’t Williams missing the start of the season? My guess is that given how slow the Yankees are to promote their prospects that a guy who just entered High A at the second half of last season and may not be ready to start the season – won’t see the majors this year.

  140. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:04 pm
    “I suggested Wilmer a couple months ago here but hardly anyone paid attention. Maybe I should just send my suggestions to blake from now on…”

    Did you suggest a way to get him? Or just that they should …..he’s most see him as a 3B now or LFer

    Yeah, since the Mets reportedly need outfielders, I suggested Ramon Flores or if that wasn’t enough, possibly Tyler Austin (or Heathcott if you think Austin is better).

    The Yankees aren’t going to trade Gardner for him (I wouldn’t either), then pay much more money even for just one year of Bourn, and I doubt Bourn does a one year deal anyway.

    Of course, the Yankees doing any trade with the Mets seems like a longshot anyway.

  141. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Chip says:
    January 29, 2013 at 2:14 pm
    Can we please drop the silliness that steroids and HGH don’t help players perform at a higher level?

    It doesn’t help all players who take it do that…,many still stink

  142. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Perhaps twenty years ago one of my partners asked if I thought he should let his son use steroids for high school football since “everyone else was”. He did not, but that did give me a sense of how pervasive the issue is.

  143. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Suicide in the US has increased by almost 4% since just 2009. Studying suicide and depression is very difficult. Actual head trauma has been proven to be a direct cause of depression though.

  144. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Did you read the story on Taylor Huntoon? I did, back when Congress was holding its initial hearings. Read it sometime and you might become a little more convinced.

    A kid whose dream is to be a professional baseball player, is being told by his coach that he isn’t big, strong, or good enough to do it. Uses steroids in secret. Then commits suicide.

    A sad story, but not enough to outlaw steroids.

  145. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    “Can we please drop the silliness that steroids and HGH don’t help players perform at a higher level?”

    No, it’s hardly proved.

  146. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    A lot of this steroid scare stuff reminds me of those commercials about weed where your brain is an egg or you drive your car into an old lady.

  147. FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Science merely provides evidence of facts. It does not prove facts with 100% certainty. You are dealing with tendencies, probabilities and hypotheses.

    You can argue from now until eternity that x does not prove this and y cannot be proven show me the links.

    You can however cite a heap of studies that point to the long-term risks involved with steroid use, HgH use, Testosterone use etc. There is a mountain of evidence that suggests (not proves) that steroid use is detrimental to health.

    Thus hospital protocols.

  148. vrsce January 29th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    ARod essentially destroyed himself with PED’s, or at least his hips.

  149. Chip January 29th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Chip says:
    January 29, 2013 at 2:14 pm
    Can we please drop the silliness that steroids and HGH don’t help players perform at a higher level?

    It doesn’t help all players who take it do that…,many still stink
    ——————–

    Correct, I couldn’t take steroids and pitch for the Yankees. But the fact is that guys like Melky, Gio, Cruz – are doing this for a reason – it enables them to work harder, get stronger, and maximize those natural abilities.

  150. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Chip January 29th, 2013 at 2:14 pm
    Can we please drop the silliness that steroids and HGH don’t help players perform at a higher level?

    Can’t prove it, can’t prove it, neener neener.

  151. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    ARod essentially destroyed himself with PED’s, or at least his hips.

    His hips are a birth defect.

  152. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Drugs don’t kill people, people kill people. Isn’t that an NRA-ian interpretation?

  153. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Well I’m grateful that MLB doesn’t advocate the free-or-all that some of its fans do. I’m against cheating. PEDs are cheating. I sleep well knowing they’re illegal and outlawed by MLB. And yes I do believe they enhance performance.

  154. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    trisha – I’m sure the story is very moving but one case doesn’t prove causality. It’s just not that simple. Decades of research need to be compiled to draw such precise conclusions. As of now there is no link between steroids and suicide. There are many studies done, for example, that have linked the recession to the rise in the suicide rate. So many studies can link things… not many can prove causality. Suicide is not something I speak especially lightly about.. there are many, many causes. Right now the rates for young adults in the US are higher than normal. It is not an easy thing to break down.

  155. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    OK, let’s hear the names of some pro athletes that take the juice Consistently and “stink”.

  156. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    “can’t prove it, can’t prove it, neener neener.”

    The anecdotal evidence adherents crack me up.

  157. vrsce January 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    “His hips are a birth defect”

    Just like Bo Jackson.

  158. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Steroids and other PEDs do help one’s recovery and strength. They obviously don’t make you recognize a curve better, but they can allow you to wait on a pitch fractionally longer since additional strength can create more bat speed. More bat speed will also make the ball go further off the bat. I don’t think that can be disputed.

    Of course, most of us could have taken everything available since birth and we wouldn’t have made it.

  159. FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    His hips are a birth defect because you are his doctor? Or… his hips are a birth defect because you desire to believe his doctor’s PUBLIC statements about his PRIVATE health condition.

  160. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    “Just like Bo Jackson.”

    Bo Jackson was born with necrosis?

  161. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    DONNYBROOK says:
    January 29, 2013 at 2:22 pm
    OK, let’s hear the names of some pro athletes that take the juice Consistently and “stink”.

    Minor leaguers fail drug tests all the time….

  162. Chip January 29th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    “Can we please drop the silliness that steroids and HGH don’t help players perform at a higher level?”

    No, it’s hardly proved.
    ———————

    If they didn’t work then players wouldn’t risk what they do to take them. Melky Cabrera went from 4th outfielder/fringe major leaguer with the Yankees and Atlanta to All-Star. Bartolo Colon went from being out of baseball to a strong mid-rotation starter for the Yankees and A’s.

  163. RadioKev January 29th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
    His hips are a birth defect because you are his doctor? Or… his hips are a birth defect because you desire to believe his doctor’s PUBLIC statements about his PRIVATE health condition.
    ———-

    Don’t let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!

    So what evidence do you have to go on that steroids have eroded A-Rod’s hip?

  164. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    , but they can allow you to wait on a pitch fractionally longer since additional strength can create more bat speed. More bat speed will also make the ball go further off the bat. I don’t think that can be disputed.

    See, I disagree about the batspeed. If getting stronger was the fix for bat speed older players could just work out. Strength is something you can maintain into advanced age, but batspeed is not.

  165. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Science merely provides evidence of facts. It does not prove facts with 100% certainty. You are dealing with tendencies, probabilities and hypotheses.

    You can argue from now until eternity that x does not prove this and y cannot be proven show me the links.

    You can however cite a heap of studies that point to the long-term risks involved with steroid use, HgH use, Testosterone use etc. There is a mountain of evidence that suggests (not proves) that steroid use is detrimental to health.

    Thus hospital protocols.

    ———————–

    This is not very accurate.

    This honestly isn’t a semantics game…. it’s not hard, for example, to prove that smoking cigarettes causes c@ncer at higher than normal rates given the evidence and data collected.

  166. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    “Of course, most of us could have taken everything available since birth and we wouldn’t have made it.”

    I’ve put on significant muscle mass at very points in life with just diet and exercise. It didn’t make me a better athlete.

  167. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    So what evidence do you have to go on that steroids have eroded A-Rod’s hip?

    Or made his bone a weird shape :)

  168. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
    “can’t prove it, can’t prove it, neener neener.”

    The anecdotal evidence adherents crack me up.

    The people who ignore everything in their face and fall back to the “you don’t have reems of scientific data” as a debate tactic crack me up. Actually, I don’t find it funny, kind of a sad debate tactic or illogical position.

  169. Chip January 29th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    “can’t prove it, can’t prove it, neener neener.”

    The anecdotal evidence adherents crack me up.
    ————–

    And the people who think that steroids and HGH have the same impact as Tic Tacs crack me up.

    No one is saying that using steroids along makes a schmuck into a major league ball player – you do need some talent. But they do enhance the player’s performance. Hence the name “Performance Enhancing Drug” any argument to the contrary is stupidity.

  170. Bronx Jeers January 29th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
    OK, let’s hear the names of some pro athletes that take the juice Consistently and “stink”.

    ———-

    Apparently, the current version of Alex Rodriguez.

  171. vrsce January 29th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Bo Jackson’s hip shattered after a tackle. A common side effect of PED’s, just like ARod, necrosis by means other than genetics or pre existing condition exacerbated by PED’s

  172. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Perhaps twenty years ago one of my partners asked if I thought he should let his son use steroids for high school football since “everyone else was”. He did not, but that did give me a sense of how pervasive the issue is.

    —————–

    My entire high school baseball team used. Needless to say, none of them are pro athletes lol.

    My favorite were the guys that used and didn’t play sports… could never wrap my head around that one, but it happens quite a bit. Aesthetics.

  173. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    So now we are to “more muscles/strength don’t make you a better athlete”? I guess all the best athletes just wasted their time getting those big muscles, huh?

    I think I’m out of the debate if it is getting to this ridiculous territory.

  174. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    We clearly don’t know if steroids did or did not contribute to his hip issues. While his doctor says no, I do recall reading another noted orthopedist that suggests otherwise. If the yankees could prove a link of use to his hip(s), then we have a tool to fight the contract.

    I don’t think that answer will be conclusively known for a number of years.

  175. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    The amusing thing is that I’d think PEDs would help football players more than baseball players or hockey players that rely heavily on other natural skills like hand eye coordination.. I’ve never been an offensive or defensive lineman, but I bet PEDs help you do that more that they help you hit a baseball.

  176. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    “If they didn’t work then players wouldn’t risk what they do to take them.

    That’s a tautology.

    If they work, why was Bonds so much better at making them work than others?

    Melky Cabrera went from 4th outfielder/fringe major leaguer with the Yankees and Atlanta to All-Star. Bartolo Colon went from being out of baseball to a strong mid-rotation starter for the Yankees and A’s.”

    Melky hit .280 .360 .391 .752 as a chubby 21 year old. He’s only a 4th OF to the excuse-making Cashman.

  177. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    “So now we are to “more muscles/strength don’t make you a better athlete”? I guess all the best athletes just wasted their time getting those big muscles, huh?”

    No, women like it and you look good in the mirror.

  178. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    “The people who ignore everything in their face and fall back to the “you don’t have reems of scientific data” as a debate tactic crack me up. Actually, I don’t find it funny, kind of a sad debate tactic or illogical position.”

    Reems? None.

  179. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Shame,

    I blame you and your female kind that cause we men to do stupid things to impress you.

  180. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Just look at the list of minor league players suspended for PEDs, theres lots of them. Most of them suck. Neifi Perez was suspended for PED use and he stinks!

  181. Doreen January 29th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Does anyone else have an ad for a Human Growth Hormone therapy for people ages 35 and older at the top of their page????

    Hysterical!

  182. RadioKev January 29th, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Melky hit .280 .360 .391 .752 as a chubby 21 year old. He’s only a 4th OF to the excuse-making Cashman.
    ——–

    Well, the dude did totally bottom out in Atlanta, if you remember. It’s not like Cashman invented Melky’s issues. And .752 ain’t exactly a star prospect caliber OPS.

    Melky went ahead and proved them wrong, while using PEDs. Now let’s see him do it without the PEDs.

  183. Chip January 29th, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    “Of course, most of us could have taken everything available since birth and we wouldn’t have made it.”

    I’ve put on significant muscle mass at very points in life with just diet and exercise. It didn’t make me a better athlete.
    —————-

    Because you lack talent. Thinking steroids don’t help you because they don’t magically make people better athletes is stupid. Steroids enhance your abilities, they don’t create them.

  184. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    So now we are to “more muscles/strength don’t make you a better athlete”? I guess all the best athletes just wasted their time getting those big muscles, huh?

    Athlete != just be strong. There is more to it than that. Jeter & A-rod can probably still lift the same amounts they did in their prime, but their batspeed is worse now. Baseball is a skill game. Athletic ability is important, natural talent or whatever, but simply being STRONG is not helpful. You look at guys like Gabe Kapler, who are absolutely ripped, and watch them suck while less physically impressive people are much better than them.

  185. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Doreen,

    I don’t have that ad, but maybe I should.

  186. Chambliss January 29th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    I really wish that A-Rod would just go away. Just as I was looking forward to pitchers and catchers, here we are with another story about A-Rod and PEDS. Enough already.

    How liberating it would be for the entire organization know that he was never coming back, ever.

    Say what you want about Youk, but I don’t think he has ever been accused of using PEDS.

  187. pat January 29th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    CJNitkowski

    ARod is terrible, isn’t he? Show of hands, how many would trade careers with him right now?….Nitkowski, party of one. #YouWouldToo

  188. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    See, I disagree about the batspeed. If getting stronger was the fix for bat speed older players could just work out. Strength is something you can maintain into advanced age, but batspeed is not.

    ——

    We’re talking biomechanics here, not voodoo. Fractions of percentages of maximum strength. Hundredths of a second worth of bat speed. It doesn’t take much to lose what you need to hit a baseball well.

  189. Bronx Jeers January 29th, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    Does anyone else have an ad for a Human Growth Hormone therapy for people ages 35 and older at the top of their page????

    ———

    Mine has an ad for American Airlines. But I could certainly use some HGH. I’ll keep refreshing and maybe I’ll get lucky.

  190. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    For body builders, where one of the goals is to have a specific *look*, steroids can be very helpful. For weight lifters, where the goal is to simply lift heavy things, steroids can be very helpful. For baseball, where the goal is to hit a ball with a stick and then run around some bases I am not sure steroids are that helpful.

    There are physical aspects to throwing a baseball hard & swinging a bat quickly that are not governed by pure strength.

  191. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    FWIW to anyone on here… men commit suicide at higher rates than women.

  192. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    “Well, the dude did totally bottom out in Atlanta, if you remember. It’s not like Cashman invented Melky’s issues. And .752 ain’t exactly a star prospect caliber OPS.”

    No, he just intentionally mischaracterized them to make his bad trade look better.

    The guy lost his way, and made a stupid mistake thinking that he need PEDs rather than hard work and focus.

  193. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Now with the steroid mess, at least Cashman has something to do other than explaining why spending money has left them in their current situation.

  194. Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:13 pm
    Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 1:59 pm
    Does anyone think PEDs will be illegal forever?

    ——————-

    If PEDs are made legal before weed is I’m quitting this country, btw.

    —————–

    lol

    it probably has a better chance at happening.

    ————————

    I seriously forget weed is even illegal… this is probably how pro-athletes feel about steroids. For anyone that didn’t read that article about Jayson Taylor, please do so as soon as you can. That was brutal to get through but extremely insightful.

    ——————-

    Those guys put themselves through hell just to perform. We’re asking more from these athletes in this day and age. Perform every night at a high level and any type of slippage is not allowed.

  195. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    FWIW to anyone on here… men commit suicide at higher rates than women.

    The burden of being the best at everything :(

  196. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    “Because you lack talent. Thinking steroids don’t help you because they don’t magically make people better athletes is stupid. Steroids enhance your abilities, they don’t create them.”

    (I’m not without talent!)

    Then why is any improvement from PEDs so unevenly distributed?

  197. Chip January 29th, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    “If they didn’t work then players wouldn’t risk what they do to take them.

    That’s a tautology.

    If they work, why was Bonds so much better at making them work than others? for the same reason Alex was, because he had talent to begin with.

    Melky hit .280 .360 .391 .752 as a chubby 21 year old. He’s only a 4th OF to the excuse-making Cashman. Atlanta cut him that’s how awful he was

  198. pat January 29th, 2013 at 2:37 pm

    “Last year, U.S. sales of HGH topped $1.4 billion, the Associated Press found — more than drug companies made off penicillin or prescription allergy meds”

  199. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Doreen January 29th, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    Does anyone else have an ad for a Human Growth Hormone therapy for people ages 35 and older at the top of their page????

    Hysterical!

    ——————

    We’re being watched.

  200. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Throwing a baseball is a pretty simple equation: x + y = z. Where x is form (grip, motion), y is body strength and z is positive result. Improving x or y leads to an improved z.

  201. NYY_Girl_Penny January 29th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    Lost .. ?@LostNYY
    #Yankees fans need to be weary as to why minor-league New Time’s is running this and not the major Miami Herald.. Something stinks here.

    Lost .. ?@LostNYY
    #Yankees New Time’s is really not the most reliable newspaper, it’s just a free local what’s happening around Miami print. #oddchoice

  202. ron January 29th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Arod should just stay out all of this year so the yankees collect 85% of his 2013 salary,then retire so the yankees save most of his 114 million owed.
    Or take a 50 million buyout on the remaining 4 years left.

    Retiring is the best option as it would cost the yankees nothing,and nothing against the lt,except for 15% of his 2013 salary.

  203. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Throwing a baseball is a pretty simple equation: x + y = z. Where x is form (grip, motion), y is body strength and z is positive result. Improving x or y leads to an improved z.

    Too simplistic, having bigger muscles may not be part of Y. Y could be completely unrelated to pure physical lifting strength.

  204. NYYROC January 29th, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    Doreen, Don’t have the ad at top of this page, but my wife just got a magazine (can’t remember name of mag) that has 2 full page story about buying HGH from some company..refers to quotes by Dr. Oz. Couldn’t believe what I was reading.

  205. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    “If they work, why was Bonds so much better at making them work than others? for the same reason Alex was, because he had talent to begin with.”

    my theory….as I’ve stated before was because Bonds was like the perfect specimen for PEDs. He was Bruce Banner…..basically he already had HOF talent, a HOF swing….and most importantly maybe a HOF approach at the plate. Most players have their peak around 27-31 or so…..that’s the time when the Physical tools and experience sorta cross each other on the graph…..then when the physical tools decline the player does as well and how well the player adjusts for that slip in ability kinda determines how quickly they’ll decline. The PEDs allowed Bonds to keep the physical tools into his late 30′s…..when mentally he was like a Jedi master as hitting….and the result was what we saw….he was unstoppable.

    Most players don’t have everything like that to take advantage of it the way he could

  206. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    “Melky hit .280 .360 .391 .752 as a chubby 21 year old. He’s only a 4th OF to the excuse-making Cashman. Atlanta cut him that’s how awful he was”

    he was what 24 then and out of shape?

  207. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    And player development is non-linear. Cliff Went stunk for a year too.

  208. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Come on, phone, how does Lee = Went?

  209. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    FWIW to anyone on here… men commit suicide at higher rates than women.

    The burden of being the best at everything :(
    ———————

    White people also commit suicide at a higher rate than any other ethnic group besides Native Americans.

  210. Bronx Jeers January 29th, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Then why is any improvement from PEDs so unevenly distributed?

    ——–

    You still need to hit the gym.

  211. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Shame, you said the following: “There’s not a strong link between suicides and steroid use.. there’s no causality proven there. I’m not endorsing usage, but the link is weak at best.”

    I’m suggesting a look at the studies doesn’t bear out your hypothesis.

    The anecdotal evidence from parents and the scientific data from doctors have led to the same conclusion, that in general steroid withdrawal-induced depression is real, and it can be a causal factor for suicide

    There’s your causality.

  212. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    NYYROC January 29th, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    Doreen, Don’t have the ad at top of this page, but my wife just got a magazine (can’t remember name of mag) that has 2 full page story about buying HGH from some company..refers to quotes by Dr. Oz. Couldn’t believe what I was reading.

    ——————

    Maybe we should be blaming Oprah….

    I’m still holding Dr. Phil against her.

  213. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    Just look at the list of minor league players suspended for PEDs, theres lots of them. Most of them suck. Neifi Perez was suspended for PED use and he stinks!

    The argument is that steroids increase performance, not that they make Neifi Perez into Barry Bonds.

  214. NYY_Girl_Penny January 29th, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    I like how Arod’s statement say he has never been a patient of said doctor or been advised but nowhere does it say, ” I didn’t use PED’s in any for since joining the NYY” HAH, the guy is done for.. don’t let the door hit you scumbag!

  215. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    “for the same reason Alex was, because he had talent to begin with.”

    Chip

    But McGwire had far less talent and hit about the same # of HR as Bonds.

  216. RadioKev January 29th, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
    Throwing a baseball is a pretty simple equation: x + y = z. Where x is form (grip, motion), y is body strength and z is positive result. Improving x or y leads to an improved z.

    Too simplistic, having bigger muscles may not be part of Y. Y could be completely unrelated to pure physical lifting strength.
    ———-

    Nah, I don’t see this at all. Pitchers like Lincecum and Strasburg are strong I’m sure, but they’re not going to throw harder if they get stronger at this point. Verlander doesn’t seem like the most jacked up guy in the game either. No, it’s much more complicated.

  217. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    “Then why is any improvement from PEDs so unevenly distributed?”

    I think it just depends on what kind of hitter you are too….if a guy is a hacker that swings at everything then being stronger or quicker may not help you as much because you’re still going to get yourself out. The guys who already have good skills and good approches get more benefit IMO because they put themselves in better situations for it.

  218. Doreen January 29th, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    I just went to two of the links on google – HGH is apparently the Fountain of Youth!

    And one of the two links was in Florida. ;)

    Ponce De Leon lives.

  219. NYY_Girl_Penny January 29th, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    you know what though, how many Alex Rodriquez are there in Miami ???? Maybe it’s not the same Arod. I think as Lost suggests that since it’s in this stupid little miami paper and not the miami herald, there’s a good chance that this story is BS.

  220. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    I think the whole thing is extremely unfortunate for Alex because I’ve always said he didn’t need PEDs….he was that talented and he may be healthier and more able to play today had he never taken them. In his prime when he was young….I think he’d have been a monster either way

  221. theREALkevin January 29th, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    Sigh. Of course if you’re terrible at baseball taking steroids or HGH won’t magically turn you into a major leaguer. I don’t think anyone is dense enough to be arguing that. They always help you physically though, whether it’s making you stronger, faster, or w/e. You literally can’t take them and not get some sort of physical boost.

  222. Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 2:46 pm
    Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    Just look at the list of minor league players suspended for PEDs, theres lots of them. Most of them suck. Neifi Perez was suspended for PED use and he stinks!

    The argument is that steroids increase performance, not that they make Neifi Perez into Barry Bonds.

    ———

    lol

    was he even a decent utility infielder.

  223. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    That’s plausible, blake, and you frame it as an opinion, which I agree with, because it is possible they help, but it’s hardly conclusive at this point.

  224. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    It says it ‘can be a causal factor’… the key word is ‘can’ in that sentence. That’s not proof. That doesn’t prove causality. If it did, they would have had a stronger conclusion than that.

    I have no doubt steroid withdrawal ‘can be a causal factor’… I’ve already said it could be. But so could many other things according to similar studies. It is likely not one factor.

    Also, the ‘withdrawal’ part is very important. I mean.. what caused the person to take steroids in the first place? Is there any way to know they weren’t already depressed or prone to depression prior to usage?

    This is not cut and dry. I’m not trying to be argumentative but read any suicide study and it’s very difficult to draw causality, correlation and conclusions.

  225. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    “That’s plausible, blake, and you frame it as an opinion, which I agree with, because it is possible they help, but it’s hardly conclusive at this point.”

    its just something that impossible to quantify for each player….its all very subjective

  226. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    “you know what though, how many Alex Rodriquez are there in Miami ???? Maybe it’s not the same Arod. I think as Lost suggests that since it’s in this stupid little miami paper and not the miami herald, there’s a good chance that this story is BS.”

    Great points, actually!

  227. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    You really have to interrogate the data… If people want to prove something, they usually can find evidence that supports their argument, but the hard data support isn’t always there.

  228. theREALkevin January 29th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    For some guys who are already really good, PEDs will probably make them great.

    For some guys who take them and their numbers still aren’t anything special (Neifi Perez?), maybe they needed the HGH or roids to simply stay in the big leagues at all. Sure their numbers still aren’t good, but without the roids, maybe the numbers would have been like completely out of baseball bad, you know?

  229. Chip January 29th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    “Because you lack talent. Thinking steroids don’t help you because they don’t magically make people better athletes is stupid. Steroids enhance your abilities, they don’t create them.”

    (I’m not without talent!)

    Then why is any improvement from PEDs so unevenly distributed?
    —————–

    A) there are different drugs that result in different effects
    B) different players are going to have a different talent level base to start with

    You’re a lawyer right? If you are an idiot and cheat to pass the bar, it’s not going to make you as good a lawyer as someone who is smart who cheats to pass the bar.

  230. vrsce January 29th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    “you know what though, how many Alex Rodriquez are there in Miami ???? Maybe it’s not the same Arod. I think as Lost suggests that since it’s in this stupid little miami paper and not the miami herald, there’s a good chance that this story is BS.”

    Agreed.

  231. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Nah, I don’t see this at all. Pitchers like Lincecum and Strasburg are strong I’m sure, but they’re not going to throw harder if they get stronger at this point. Verlander doesn’t seem like the most jacked up guy in the game either. No, it’s much more complicated.

    It’s physics. Throwing a ball is potential energy converted to kinetic energy. A limited number of factors contribute to that process, including how much force your generate with your legs pushing forward, how much torque your shoulder and elbow can sustain whipping the ball forward, and so on. That equation obviously leaves out how much each factor is weighted, but the point remains that, “ceteris parabis,” a stronger person will throw a ball harder/farther than a weaker person.

  232. Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Yea it all depends on the player, what they take, what they eat, genetics, the talent they already have, etc.

  233. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    There are some alarming links between alcoholism and suicide…

  234. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    You’re a lawyer right? If you are an idiot and cheat to pass the bar, it’s not going to make you as good a lawyer as someone who is smart who cheats to pass the bar.

    Getting the answers to something or changing your score is different than what PEDs purport to do. It would be like if someone got special brain surgery or hypnotism or something that allowed them to remember the correct answers, in which case I ask whats the diff?

  235. NYY_Girl_Penny January 29th, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    accept …

    “How did we authenticate the records? New Times called dozens of numbers from client lists and Bosch’s personal notebooks. Virtually everyone we spoke with acknowledged their involvement with the clinic or politely declined to comment. There wasn’t a single denial. We also spoke to six clients who confirmed that their information — as recorded in the records — was accurate. Two former Biogenesis employees described intimate details of the clinic and its business.

    Bosch’s personal notebooks also check out in every other respect. Scrawled numbers to diagnostic clinics reach diagnostic clinics. Details about Bosch’s family life, business plans, and debts match public records.

    Alex Rodriguez appears 16 times in the documents we reviewed. His name is recorded as “Alex Rod” or “Alex R.” or by his nickname at the clinic, “Cacique.” This is particularly interesting because on ESPN, he acknowledged using PEDs but said he stopped in 2003.

    It’s also important to note that Rodriguez’s cousin, Miami resident Yuri Sucart, frequently appears in the same records on the same days as Rodriguez. Sucart has been identified in the past as Rodriguez’s source for performance-enhancing drugs.”

    source=http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2013/01/the_a-rod_files_every_mention.php

  236. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    And you know, someone smart enough to cheat the bar may be the exact kind of lawyer you want on your side :)

  237. Rich in NJ January 29th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    “You’re a lawyer right? If you are an idiot and cheat to pass the bar, it’s not going to make you as good a lawyer as someone who is smart who cheats to pass the bar.”

    In addition to what jerkface said, it is as much about integrity as ability. I realize that people are cynical about lawyers, and not without reason, but we do take an oath to become a member of the Bar.

  238. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    I pointed out long ago the name Alex Rodriquez in Not uncommon. Next, you gotta look at the alleged bragging from Bosch concerning his treatment of A-Rod. Coulda been puffery to entice business.

  239. blake January 29th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    “And you know, someone smart enough to cheat the bar may be the exact kind of lawyer you want on your side ”

    thats a very good point.

  240. NYY_Girl_Penny January 29th, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    not good that Yuri, Arod’s cousin showed up most of the same days as Arod.. guess it’s the right Arod. As much as I have enjoyed watching him play, he needs to retire and just move on with his riches.. im over it, the day can’t come soon enough that he is gone.

  241. blake January 29th, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    @DRUDGE_REPORT: REPORT: Ravens’ Ray Lewis Used Banned Substance To Recover From Torn Triceps… http://t.co/LMv0mR20

    Nobody will care

  242. Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    blake January 29th, 2013 at 3:02 pm
    @DRUDGE_REPORT: REPORT: Ravens’ Ray Lewis Used Banned Substance To Recover From Torn Triceps… http://t.co/LMv0mR20

    Nobody will care

    ———————–

    Mike mentioned it and then moved on :)

  243. blake January 29th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    HGH is converted to the hormone IGF-1 in the liver….which is what is in the antler powder.

  244. Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    But it would be the same if any other player used because it’s ok in the NFL

  245. blake January 29th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    yea its hilarious…..literally the only thing anybody cares about in the NFL is if the player can play or not….

  246. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Who plays and who doesn’t, causes a shift in “the line”.

  247. Against All Odds January 29th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Pretty much

  248. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Basically the only way Arod is not scorched by this is if someone can prove that the documents were faked. Because he is already guilty (again) in the court of public opinion.

  249. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    @DRUDGE_REPORT: REPORT: Ravens’ Ray Lewis Used Banned Substance To Recover From Torn Triceps… http://t.co/LMv0mR20

    Nobody will care

    —–

    “And lo, Jesus did obtain an unguent derived from the testicles of a Bull, and did inject himself with the unguent, into His balky shoulder. Thus did he go on to convert a record amount of water into wine that season.”

  250. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    I would far prefer lawyer who was smart to one who wasn’t smart enough to pass the bar without cheating. Dentists now? :)

  251. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    I would far prefer lawyer who was smart to one who wasn’t smart enough to pass the bar without cheating.

    Passing a test isn’t a measure of competence :) It is a good ‘gate’, buttttt…

  252. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 29th, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Well most suicide studies will mention depression. There are many scientific studies that connect steroid usage with depression.

    Anecdotally I’m thinking back to articles where Arod talked about going to psychiatrists five days a week…

    I’m also thinking about all of the cases I read about where steroid useage was suspected as the cause of suicide in different athletes and also about the ‘roid rage where some “sports” figures (if you believe that professional wrestling is a sport) ended up killing their spouses and then, I believe, themselves. Some nasty little side effects are associated with steroids.

    Anyway, it’s against the law, so that’s that at least for now.

  253. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    The life span of an NFL player may be the biggest indictment of PED use as exists.

  254. kd January 29th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    just don’t see how he plays another game in a yankee uniform if this is true. he’s hurt, both sides have a lot of time to work something. the yankees want him off of their payroll and he doesn’t want public humiliation, and his money. there’s gotta be a way to do this.

    i hope for his sake that this is all fabricated, i never understood the ‘i hate arod’ crowd. if he really was taking this stuff, i don’t see him coming back

  255. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    I do Not see any wiggle room in A-Rod’s denial. Gonna be black or white, no grey.

  256. comet January 29th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Shame we’d welcome you to Canada!

  257. vrsce January 29th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    There is no doubt that PED’s cause depression.

    I am quite depressed right now, due to ARod’s PED’s use, pre 2009 and alleged post 2009.

  258. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    The life span of an NFL player may be the biggest indictment of PED use as exists.

    Or the biggest indictment of a blood sport.

  259. DONNYBROOK January 29th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Lyle Alzado= biggest NFL indictment regarding PED’s.

  260. blake January 29th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    Tim Brown ?@TBrownYahoo
    Worth your time — @JeffPassan on the continuing A-Rod saga: http://tinyurl.com/ajfgxd2

  261. blake January 29th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    @ESPNNYYankees: O’Connor: A-Rod’s contract is a toxic waste http://t.co/AtgxB83V

  262. ron January 29th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    When you are dealing with one or two hits that makes you as good,or better than some,or a few hr that gives you a big payday,or when you are a runner,and steroids makes your body,and mind train in ways that are simply not possible without them,burning body fat wich makes you faster,it is more than enough to make a huge difference.
    I know people who took steroids,and still take hgh,and steroids makes you so insanely confident in the gym(mental),and it makes a world of difference.

    I used to work out like a crazy person,many years ago,and a neighbor insisted i was on steroids,but i never have been.
    This neighbor took steroids,worked out like crazy,and in a matter of 6 weeks was huge.

    Now he kept going,and in a short year,or two,was massive.

  263. blake January 29th, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    The NFL may be in trouble long term

  264. austinmac January 29th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Not passing the bar is a sign of legal ignorance, but no, simply passing the bar does not prove competence.

  265. kd January 29th, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    that tim brown article that blake posted is chilling. it has the tone of some of the armstrong articles posted recently. i guess 2013 is going to be the year that drug cheats get caught.

  266. RadioKev January 29th, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    It’s physics. Throwing a ball is potential energy converted to kinetic energy. A limited number of factors contribute to that process, including how much force your generate with your legs pushing forward, how much torque your shoulder and elbow can sustain whipping the ball forward, and so on. That equation obviously leaves out how much each factor is weighted, but the point remains that, “ceteris parabis,” a stronger person will throw a ball harder/farther than a weaker person.
    ———

    My point is that it’s much more complicated than some X + Y = Z formula. The relationship cannot be defined as such.

    Clearly, the motion is more important than the strength, we do know this much. That’s how small guys can throw a ball way harder than bigger guys.

    I’m sure there’s some sort of minimum strength required to throw a mid 90s fastball, but I’m also sure there’s gotta be some sort of diminishing returns with muscle mass, which could be connected to the motion. The bulkier you are, perhaps it’s harder to move your arm and body as fast.

    It’s way too complicated. I appreciate physics, thanks.

  267. RadioKev January 29th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    This HGH report is all a conspiracy set up by the NFL to get the cameras off of their concussion issues. I’m right until proven wrong!

  268. blake January 29th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    @Ken_Rosenthal: A-Rod won’t recover from this, at least not in the court of public opinion. Column: http://t.co/i33QYISr

  269. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    @RadioKev I think you’re fixating on one type of effect from steroids, which is the uber-bulked look, bordering on the muscle-bound, that weightlifters get. Clemens never looked like that, but he was still hugely strong, especially in the trunk and the legs. That’s how pitchers generate their power. Consider also the PED epidemic in cycling, yet to a man pro cyclists verge on the waifish. Steroids and other PEDs are not simply about adding mass.

  270. Ys Guy January 29th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE January 29th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    “Ys Guy January 29th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
    ” William Buckner January 29th, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    What was last time there was good Arod news?
    ===================================
    the day he announced his opt-out.

    unfortunately hank snatched defeat from the jaws of victory….”
    ================================================

    Not gonna say who but someone in here was obviously elated when Hank pulled that trick. Euphoric even.
    ——————————————————–
    team greedy?

    i was ‘i_miss_bernie back in those days and i found this blog about 2 months before arod’s opt-out and was possibly the most outspoken against resigning him if he opted out and after he actually did opt out.

    id say the board was pretty evenly split between those who wanted him back and those who didnt want him back, although to be fair, most were really shocked at what the yankees agreed to pay him on the new contract.

    and paco was right above when he said that the terms of the original contract were good. it was the opt out and resigning that were ridiculous.

    had arod just not opted out and played out his original contract, both sides would have been very happy i think.

  271. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Consider also the PED epidemic in cycling, yet to a man pro cyclists verge on the waifish. Steroids and other PEDs are not simply about adding mass.

    Well that is because the primary ‘PED’s in cycling are EPO blood doping. They boost their red blood cell count, combined with the blood doping, to allow their blood to be richer in the things that make the body go. This helps in the endurance sport of cycling.

    Baseball players aren’t blood doping.

  272. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Steroids are definitely about adding mass, which is why its not something that is the ‘big thing’ in cycling.

  273. RadioKev January 29th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 3:31 pm
    @RadioKev I think you’re fixating on one type of effect from steroids, which is the uber-bulked look, bordering on the muscle-bound, that weightlifters get. Clemens never looked like that, but he was still hugely strong, especially in the trunk and the legs. That’s how pitchers generate their power. Consider also the PED epidemic in cycling, yet to a man pro cyclists verge on the waifish. Steroids and other PEDs are not simply about adding mass.
    ———-

    I think the affects of steroids on the game are too abstract to discuss in the first place. Steroid use just isn’t transparent enough to know.

    Pitching is also just as much an art as it is a science. If you make a slight motion change, you can unlock extra velocity, or lose velocity. I’m sure organizations have and are working on ways to quantify and research pitching motion data, but it seems to me that there is no hard rule on this yet.

    So while I appreciate that if David Robertson starts juicing and gets the benefit of extra endurance or muscle strength, or whatever, he may have more zip on his fastball, but extra muscle mass could also throw off his motion. And then there are guys in the game that we can look at and say, this guy appears stronger than David Robertson, but he can’t throw the ball as hard. And if those guys start juicing, will their performance increase any? Who knows.

    It’s just not formulaic, is my point.

  274. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    My point was taking them does not intrinsically make you look like Bane or turn you into a clumsy oaf.

  275. comnsnse January 29th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    DUH! I guess the continued injuries especially to joints( no pun intended) must be part of the natural aging process.

    Makes sense,after all Alex has never cheated before…………..except on his wife and the game!

  276. comnsnse January 29th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Bulk,mass? Check Palmeiro!

  277. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    @RadioKev Point taken, and I should clarify out my first reference to throwing was in response to Jerkface’s mention of it, which I think was in the context of fielding, not pitching. If we want a conclusive debate some controlled studies would be helpful. Who wants to volunteer?

  278. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    Missed it earlier, Dickerson signed with O’s (minor league deal). :(

  279. RadioKev January 29th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Was it? “That equation obviously leaves out how much each factor is weighted, but the point remains that, “ceteris parabis,” a stronger person will throw a ball harder/farther than a weaker person.”

    Look, whatever you want to say. I get that juicing doesn’t make you look like bane. I never once said that. Who could possibly think that after seeing the names on the Mitchell report?

  280. coolerking101 January 29th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    I thought A-Rod was going to admit to everything. Shocking turn of events.

  281. Jerkface January 29th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Point taken, and I should clarify out my first reference to throwing was in response to Jerkface’s mention of it, which I think was in the context of fielding, not pitching

    Was definitely talking about pitching.

  282. pat January 29th, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    Makes sense,after all Alex has never cheated before…………..except on his wife and the game!

    What percent of MLB payers do you think that statement applies to?

  283. Mike in Harrisburg January 29th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    @RadioKev – “The bulkier you are, perhaps it’s harder to move your arm and body as fast.” That only happens at extreme levels of muscle, where you’re physically getting in the way of yourself. That conjured up images of Bane – actually from Batman and Robin, not Dark Knight Rises.

    As for what I said –

    1) You in centerfield throwing to home plate
    2) You + 5 extra pounds of muscle, throwing to home plate.

    2 will get closer.

  284. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    pat January 29th, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    Makes sense,after all Alex has never cheated before…………..except on his wife and the game!

    What percent of MLB payers do you think that statement applies to?

    ——————

    Andy Pettitte!!!

    Lol, I’m gonna say 70% as a conservative estimate.

  285. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    @RiverAveBlues

    Rosenthal: Pettitte will not pitch in World Baseball Classic http://rab.me/XeQzcS

  286. jacksquat January 29th, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    I’m gonna guess less than 70% of players are taking PEDs. It may be “a lot”, but not that much. Probably not even 50%. If you think so, guess the 70% of current Yankees that are using.

  287. vrsce January 29th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    Let’s, as fans and not owners, forget about ARod’s contract. Hank signed him after the opt out, a mistake. The owners not the fans should pay for this mistake.

    Therefore the Yankees should buyout ARod, accept the luxury tax proble, which through mismanagent they created. Then put the best possible product on the field to ensure their revenue stream stays in place. The recent of a sizeable stake of YES to Fox has made them lots of money, so they can afford it.

    I never want to see ARod in a Yankee uniform again. He is simply a curse.

  288. slim January 29th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    If he does not deny it is instanly a 50 game suspension without pay if not the worse for him financially as the Yankees’s lawyers will look for possible options to void the remaining contract or at least the remaining bonuses.
    Everything in this report is after the past admissions and after the yankee contract and steroid penalty policy was in place, so this becomes very possible for a suspension to occur even with no positive test and that has already happened to one player.

    He has to deny it plain and simple and will deny, deny, deny until proven otherwise.
    Of course in the history of these steroid and HGH allegations where there is smoke, there is fire.

    What a mess he is, I think the Yankees hope all of the media pressure will someday force him to retire and free them of their financial burdon.

  289. RhapsodyInBlue January 29th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    My first recollections of the Yankees were of the 1955 World Series against the Brooklyn Dodgers.

    I’ve been a fan ever since.

    Personally I’ve had enough of the PEDS and the cheats in pinstripes.

    If these stories are true I hope the Yankees part ways with Rodriquez. I’ve had enough of these people taking down our organization.

  290. blake January 29th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    @JimBowdenESPNxm: Brad Ziegler of AZ told us on SiriusXM that he recommended to PlayersAssn to increase drug susp. to 1yr for 1st offense lifetime 2nd offense

  291. randy l. January 29th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    “Steroids are definitely about adding mass, which is why its not something that is the ‘big thing’ in cycling.”

    ” but the point remains that, “ceteris parabis,” a stronger person will throw a ball harder/farther than a weaker person.”

    strength is not a simple concept thought it seems like it is.

    throwing velocity depends to a large degree on hardwired ability to marshall brain neurons to stimulate the appropriate sequential muscles.
    big dumb bulky steroid induced muscles doesn’t really help that.

    hitting is a two armed swing which is a whole different thing from throwing. an almost one pound bat has a lot of dynamic weight when swung. twice as much as a golf club for instance. a baseball player has to be stronger than a golfer because of the bat head weight.

    my point is i think hitters benefit much more than pitchers from steroids.

  292. blake January 29th, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    @OldHossRadbourn: Scene: a scribe prepares to speak about A-Rod. http://t.co/WCSb3iId

  293. Shame Spencer January 29th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    squat – Actually I meant cheating on their wives.. that’s what pat was talking about I thought.

  294. randy l. January 29th, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    just as a hypothetical, what if it turns out that HGH is a PED that actually extends life and makes people healthier.

    if it is, why then should it be banned ?

    everyone should be using it right.

  295. blake January 29th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    “if it is, why then should it be banned ?”

    It shouldn’t

  296. randy l. January 29th, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    “1) You in centerfield throwing to home plate
    2) You + 5 extra pounds of muscle, throwing to home plate.

    2 will get closer.”

    not necessarily true.

    just think of how many guys who can kill a baseball who are really strong who don’t throw well at all.

    canseco, damon, etc.

  297. randy l. January 29th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    blake

    when academics at high levels talk about PEDS and the ethical implications of them,they are not always so sure they should be banned. the question of healthy and not healthy is a key factor.

    the higher the level of discourse i’ve seen , the grayer the issue becomes. PEDS are not the black and white issue that is presented now in baseball.

  298. slim January 29th, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    These specialized doctors come up with concoctions of Steriods, HGH and other related banned substances to acheive a variety of performance related goals.
    It is not at all about adding mass, unless that is what you want to acheive.
    Do the sprinters that have taken steriods look like the incredible hulk to you?
    No they are lean and ripped ; and probably weigh 160 lbs. soaking wet.

    Althetes making millions of dollars are not doing steriods and HGH in the same ways that your high school football team did in 1988.

    If you were faster, stronger without being bulky or less coordinated, had more energy, recovered quicker from muscle aches and soreness you would be a better physical athlete.

    For a pitcher I have not seen anything ever linking any substance to increased velocity ; but increased energy, endurance and recovery is huge throughout a 162 game baseball season.

    However like any drug, take them for 10 years and your body that has been pushed harder starts to wear down and the side effects come into play.

  299. blake January 29th, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    “when academics at high levels talk about PEDS and the ethical implications of them,they are not always so sure they should be banned. the question of healthy and not healthy is a key factor.”

    I think like with all medications….when the benefits start to outweigh the side effects and risks then things like HGH may become more mainstream…..I mean is atenolol a life enhancer because it lowers blood pressure?

  300. blake January 29th, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    @ESPNNYYankees: Yankees “looking at about 20 different ways” to void A-Rod contract; story by myself and @AndrewMarchand up soon on http://t.co/mha1Vktg

    Good luck with that….hope they are successful but doubt it

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