The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Not worth the debate

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 30, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

As you might assume, I don’t schedule the Pinch Hitter posts based on when Alex Rodriguez might be accused of further steroid use. If I had the option I might have rearranged some things to begin this day with a Pinch Hitter post that perfectly fit yesterday’s bombshell, but there really wasn’t a perfect match in the hopper.

And really, wasn’t Gil’s post connected to the latest A-Rod drama in its own way?

Mariano Rivera is the most dominant pitcher of his generation, and he’s the greatest reliever in the history of baseball. Unless, of course, you prefer the career of a guy like Goose Gossage, who pitched more innings and often entered difficult situations much earlier in the game. Rivera vs. Gossage is a debate about baseball. It’s all about workload and dominance; wondering how Rivera would have done in Gossage’s shoes and vice versa. It’s about real, authentic greatness.   

At no point is Rodriguez going to be a part of a conversation like that.

Let me be clear, I do not feel sorry for Rodriguez. I’ll certainly feel bad for him if this Miami New Times report proves to be untrue, but the fact is, Rodriguez created this state of distrust. It’s far easier to believe he’s still tainted than to believe he’s turned innocent. It might not be fair, but it’s his reality. And it’s a shame that it’s our reality, too.

You know what we should be doing this winter? We should be rooting for Rodriguez. He should be a rallying point; one of the game’s great players trying to come back from yet another injury. There should be pity, and there should be hope. There should not be animosity, and there should not be anger. There should not be betrayal.

Fact is, baseball loves a hero. The game has its share of villains, but it’s always cheered the good guys. If anything, baseball might have created too many idols.

Rodriguez will never be among them. I’m sure the baseball culture of the past two decades or so helped create this monster — the pressure and temptation to use performance enhancing drugs must have been immense — but Rodriguez caved. He was not the hero. He’s admitted to having given in for three years when he was younger, and now the easiest thing to do is believe that he did it again. The Yankees reportedly want to void his contract, and who can blame them? All of baseball would rather walk away from Rodriguez than rush to his defense.

Where does Alex Rodriguez rank among the greatest players of all time? The better and far sadder question is, does anyone really care?

Associated Press photo

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312 Responses to “Not worth the debate”

  1. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    DanBarbarisi As the ever-excellent @bradfo first noted, Yanks in talks with Travis Hafner. Hafner is believed to want more than just a minor league deal.

  2. blake January 30th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Daniel Barbarisi ?@DanBarbarisi
    As the ever-excellent @bradfo first noted, Yanks in talks with Travis Hafner. Hafner is believed to want more than just a minor league deal.

    probably the answer to my “who is gonna DH vs RHP” question.

  3. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Rob Bradford ?@bradfo
    Hearing #Yankees might be close to deal with Travis Hafner

    Dunno who Rob Bradford is, but I like this development if true. Hafner is busted, but atleast he’ll get on base. And outside of last year he has hit for some avg. Maybe .270 if he isn’t dead, more likely .230 but atleast a ~.350 obp which is better than the .300 OBPs their previous .230 hitters put up.

    LH DH most likely.

  4. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:48 am

    Repost:

    Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Yankees88 January 30th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    It doesn’t seem completely fair to include Pettitte in these talks. If we take him at his word, he used HGH, not steroids. He only used it 3 times, and HGH wasn’t even banned in baseball at the time Pettitte took it. He never broke any baseball rules and wouldn’t be subject to any suspension even if baseball had a retroactive punishment system in place.

    —————-

    If we take him at his word, he broke the law, took an illegal substance, and blamed his dad.

    Andy’s story is actually the worst of all but it gets the least amount of attention.

    Why take any of these guys at their word??

  5. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Hafner, eh? Better that what we’ve got so far.

  6. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:51 am

    I’m gonna repost this convo too:

    Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    @craigcalcaterra

    The only difference between A-Rod and other PED guys: he makes a lot of money and you hate him. That’s not legal grounds to do anything.

    Ken_Rosenthal Ken, shopping for a Dr. to say you have a career-ending injury when you likely don’t is called insurance fraud.

    Ken_Rosenthal But no one was talking about it 24 hours ago. It’s inspired totally by a desire to get out of a contract because of bad PR.

    Ken_Rosenthal Saying “it’s plausible” is the same as saying “hey, he could get away with it … no one would question it …”

    Ken_Rosenthal I guarantee you, insurers are reading your column today and preparing to fight any A-Rod claim of permanent disability.

    ————

    There was a whole exchange between the two this morning on Twitter. I don’t agree with everything Craig says but I do like him.

    There are pros and cons to the Twitter-news world but this is definitely a pro.

  7. blake January 30th, 2013 at 11:51 am

    Hafner mashes righties if he could ever stay healthy…..

  8. mick January 30th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Chad,
    You stated that quite eloquently.
    Let’s see what the holier than thou crowd has to say in response.
    People don’t like Arod and it’s more than just the lying and usage.

  9. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    You can say there should be this and that, till the cows come home. Reality is, the Yanks have a player that continues to shame Yankee fans around the world.

  10. blake January 30th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    I’ve always liked Hafner so if this move is true I like it because he could actually be an upgrade….the Yanks have gotten lucky on deals like this the last couple of years so maybe they will again.

  11. Bronx Jeers January 30th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Where does Alex Rodriguez rank among the greatest players of all time? The better and far sadder question is, does anyone really care?

    —————-

    I recall a time when I was excited by the prospect that a Yankee could be the all-time HR king. Now I just want to forget all that.

  12. mick January 30th, 2013 at 11:54 am

    Arod came over here berating Jeter. That was a no-no.
    Too many fans thought he was a choker for too long for it to be imaginary.
    Just because a few people on a blog like to think they are the voice of reason doesn’t make it so.
    To dismiss the average fan is a mistake, as they are the voice of the people, and they can’t all be wrong, as the snobs intimate.

  13. Yankees88 January 30th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    HGH wasn’t banned in baseball until 2005. Pettitte claims to have taken HGH before that. In baseball standards, he did not take an illegal substance.

  14. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    repost

    yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 11:46 am
    austinmac, those rankings are overrated though. They are just for amusement. I don’t agree that we don’t have potential All-Stars. I think all the ones I have mentioned above are elite prospects. Mason and Heathcott are both coming back from injury. But both have huge upside. DePaula, people have been raving about for years; let’s see what he does once he gets stateside. Ditto Campos and injury; let’s hope his arm stays healthy. And if so, let’s see how he develops. J-Ram hopefully continues to progress. His stuff his electric. Austin has hit the cover off the board. Let’s see what he does once he goes back up to AA. ManBan will be back in the mix at some point. TJS isn’t a death sentence and he is still young. And I still say Betances will be heard from again. But obviously pitchers are more volatile. Plenty of other names but so young; give them a year and we will hear about some of those with huge upside.

  15. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    randy l. January 30th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    “you mean like Andy Pettitte?”

    j.a.pru-

    this is what i mean when i’m talking about the yankees’ moral ambiguity as an organization.

    who the are the yankees to judge anyone?

    seriously.

    are they the good guys wearing the white hat?

    i get it that most fans get into baseball as maybe an escape and for entertainment purposes and that all this ethical stuff is probably above their interest level and maybe even their intellectual level, but how can anyone think the yankees themselves didn’t help create the PEDS era?

    their position is they seem to like the stats of PEDS users as long as they don’t get caught.
    ///

    Randy, they do like their SLUG, don’t they? “Hairy Monsters”, fit the profile, although I think testosterone is supposed to make you lose your hair (Cashman/Raul Ibanez?) :D

  16. blake January 30th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    I really don’t think Rosenthal meant to go “dr shopping” …I think his point was that it’s plausabile that a dr could deem him unable to play given all the injuries and his age if Alex didn’t want to go through the rehab…..

  17. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    The priority should be getting RH\Soriano\Cubs. You guys have gotten Platoon Happy.

  18. mick January 30th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    To compare Andy and Arod is laughable.
    There is so much more to it than they both did PEDs.
    It’s the arrogance, the being above the rules attitude.
    The shaking of the finger, the hugging of the Maris family, the inability to speak English suddenly, the lying to the public (reporters included).

  19. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Yankees88 January 30th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    HGH wasn’t banned in baseball until 2005. Pettitte claims to have taken HGH before that. In baseball standards, he did not take an illegal substance.

    ——————–

    Yeah, but by lawful standards it was illegal because it wasn’t his script. It may not have been on MLBs banned list but it was still an illegal substance under federal law.

    mick – He did not come in berating Jeter lol.

  20. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Some have always passionately rooted for both Jeter and Alex. And don’t prescribe to the media-invoked dichotomy.

  21. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    Shame, thanks for posting the tweets.

  22. ac1 January 30th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    Travis Hafner?
    eh

  23. blake January 30th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    “The priority should be getting RH\Soriano\Cubs. You guys have gotten Platoon Happy.”

    this probably doesn’t preclude them from doing that if a deal materializes

  24. mick January 30th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    mick – He did not come in berating Jeter lol.
    =============
    wrong, lol.

  25. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    From a prior thread:

    86w183 January 30th, 2013 at 8:56 am
    Rich in NJ —-

    I know all about Ray Lewis’ role in helping guys get away with murder.

    I was questioning how you know that Alex and his minions never killed anyone….

    answer, you don’t.

    I never endorsed insurance fraud. If his rehab goes badly and he can’t play then he can’t play.

    ___

    Call me crazy, but I don’t assume that anyone has had anything to do with murder without evidence.

    If you do, well, whatever.

  26. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    blake January 30th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    I really don’t think Rosenthal meant to go “dr shopping” …I think his point was that it’s plausabile that a dr could deem him unable to play given all the injuries and his age if Alex didn’t want to go through the rehab…..

    —————

    I don’t think he meant it that way either but I think Craig’s points are still valid in many respects.

  27. pat January 30th, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    Arod came over here berating Jeter. That was a no-no.

    An offense worse than using PEDs to some.

  28. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    This “hero” meme is part of the problem.

    No ballplayer is my “hero.” My Dad is my hero.

    It seems those who use “heroes” interchangeably with Yankee players are not dealing from a position of reality to begin with. You’re bound to be let down.

  29. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    mick January 30th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    mick – He did not come in berating Jeter lol.
    =============
    wrong, lol.

    —————

    No. I’m not. Even a little bit.

    Arod made those remarks in SI years before he came to the Yankees and when they were published he went to Jeter’s house in Florida to personally apologize and Jeter wouldn’t let him in.

    This is a case of two giant egos clashing.. years before Arod came to the Yankees (and moved positions deferring to Jeter) and never spoke ill of him at any point while on the Yankees.

  30. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Yanks should be giving Nunez every AB possible, whether facing a Righty or Lefty. Jamming the roster with Platoon players\Hafner, minimizes these opportunities for Nunez.

  31. mick January 30th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    An offense worse than using PEDs to some.
    ==============
    is that wrong?

  32. mick January 30th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    This is a case of two giant egos clashing.. years before Arod came to the Yankees (and moved positions deferring to Jeter) and never spoke ill of him at any point while on the Yankees.
    ====================================
    who cares when he said it.
    HE SAID IT.

  33. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    All the Alex-Jeter stuff post-SI is hearsay. And are we really going to do the Jeter-Alex thing again and to prove what? :yawn:

  34. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    mick January 30th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    This is a case of two giant egos clashing.. years before Arod came to the Yankees (and moved positions deferring to Jeter) and never spoke ill of him at any point while on the Yankees.
    ====================================
    who cares when he said it.
    HE SAID IT.

    ———————

    Right.. who cares about accuracy.

  35. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    Oh for crying out loud. Alex sat there in tears; he was sorry for what he said.

    Jeter said even if you’re upset with your brother “he’s still your brother.”

    And while they may not be great friends still, they’ve since been spotted having dinner together, etc.

    They also both are very close to Posada.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.

  36. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    Also, FWIW, Arod never shook his finger at anyone in Congress, hugged the Maris family, or pretended not to know English.

    But again.. let’s not let details or facts get in the way when constructing totally false arguments.

  37. mick January 30th, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    more like parsing shame…

  38. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    Guess Jeet forgave Alex, even had lunch with him, laughed with him in dugout multiple times, I’ve run out of fingers to count on. Boring.

  39. ac1 January 30th, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    Yanks should be giving Nunez every AB possible, whether facing a Righty or Lefty. Jamming the roster with Platoon players\Hafner, minimizes these opportunities for Nunez.

    ___

    100% agree
    He should be backing SS and 3B and DH on days where he isn’t. Nix can be a second back up (which we would have room for without a full time DH)

  40. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    pat January 30th, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    Arod came over here berating Jeter. That was a no-no.

    An offense worse than using PEDs to some.
    ///

    He did not berate him. He marginalized his success in an Esquire article, I believe, and he was genuinely sorry for it. He sat outside his house and waited for him for hours to apologize.

  41. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    “Rodriguez created this state of distrust.”

    Chad

    This latest report notwithstanding, has he created more distrust than Oritz?

    If so, how? If not, why the extreme double standard by the media at large?

    Ortiz, like A-Rod, is arguably a HoF. Ortiz, like A-Rod, had one PED revelation leaked about him.

    Ortiz, unlike A-Rod, didn’t make any even quasi-candid disclosures. Instead, he said he would get back to the media.

    It’s as if nothing ever happened with Ortiz.

    With A-Rod, it has been constant criticism and innuendo even before this latest report.

    So who has really created distrust?

    That doesn’t make A-Rod anything but an admitted cheater, but the treatment he has received prior to yesterday’s disclosure has been patently unfair.

  42. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Why did Hafner have such a bad 2012? What were his injuries? Is he an HGH risk? :hide:

  43. mick January 30th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    yankee fans don’t care about your rationale for loving arod.

    Also, FWIW, Arod never shook his finger at anyone in Congress, hugged the Maris family, or pretended not to know English.

    But again.. let’s not let details or facts get in the way when constructing totally false arguments.
    ===========================================
    what about the lying to the public, you conveniently forgot to mention that…

  44. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    YF,

    I certainly hope all those guys turn out. We will know much more after this year. I do think following the minor leaguers will be a major part of my summer. Why can’t we have a Texas League team for my convenience?

  45. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    If you people realized how many times you agreed with Donny, you would either slit-your-throat, or Immediately head down to The Waffle House.

  46. mick January 30th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    I believe, and he was genuinely sorry for it. He sat outside his house and waited for him for hours to apologize.
    ================================
    he lies about everything else and this you believe?

  47. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    Guess Jeet forgave Alex, even had lunch with him, laughed with him in dugout multiple times, I’ve run out of fingers to count on. Boring.
    ///

    smh

    I remember, too, a postgame interview with Derek on the field where the interviewer said something about someone (can’t remember who; not Jete) being the star of the game, and I thought ‘Alex is the star of this game,’ and as I was thinking it, Jeter said ‘Alex is the reason we won today,’ or something equivalent.

    He also said he admired Alex for his feats because “first of all, I can’t do that…”

    smh

  48. blake January 30th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    “I don’t think he meant it that way either but I think Craig’s points are still valid in many respects.”

    yea but I think he was sorta being a jerk too and jumping to a lot of unintended conclusions

  49. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    Rich, good post. Papi is a beloved figure and shmoozes with writers, and is beloved of small children. He therefore gets a pass.

  50. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    i like the idea of pronk in Yankee stadium , he is fragile obviously.

  51. G. Love January 30th, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    Signing Travis Hafner, a guy who everyone pretty much decided built his #’s through PED’s and who lost his ability to mash (not to mention about 40 pounds) once stricter testing went into effect seems a bit laughable in light of yesterdays Arod news doesn’t it?

    Ugh.

  52. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Personally, I don’t care if AROD is liked or not. I do care whether he will play and produce. If he can’t, I hope the team can do something to help the financial picture.

  53. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    Also, FWIW, Arod never shook his finger at anyone in Congress, hugged the Maris family, or pretended not to know English.

    But again.. let’s not let details or facts get in the way when constructing totally false arguments.
    ///

    Good point.

  54. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    yf

    I think you’re right. It’s about their respective relationships with the media.

  55. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Hafner = Steve Balboni. NOPE

  56. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    austinmac, I feel for you; it’s tough not to get to see live milb games, but at least many more of ours are now televised at all levels, including SI and Trenton home games. A few other names will come to the fore.

    Pruf, yes Feliz was awfully good in his short Trenton stint. Nice display of power. and yeah, Alex story in Esquire not SI.

  57. G. Love January 30th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Arod just needed a nickname like “Puffy” or “Schmoopie” & all would be ducky for him. He needed to kiss babies and not babes.

    “Arod” sounds like something you’d name a dragon, although it actually was the name of Aragorn’s horse in The Lord of The Rings book if I recall.

  58. blake January 30th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    They have no option at DH right now vs RHP….I don’t see the harm in this signing and it really shouldn’t stop them from looking for something better…..probably will….but shouldn’t.

  59. comnsnse January 30th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    Perfectly put Chad!

  60. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    GLove, re: Hafner, my thoughts too. I think you should consider attending some Trenton games with us. :) Hope springs eternal in the minors, and maybe Cash will actually not trade the elite ones. We can hope and dream…

  61. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    G. Love January 30th, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    Signing Travis Hafner, a guy who everyone pretty much decided built his #’s through PED’s and who lost his ability to mash (not to mention about 40 pounds) once stricter testing went into effect seems a bit laughable in light of yesterdays Arod news doesn’t it?

    Ugh.
    ///

    Hairy Monster :(

  62. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    zero harm if it’s cheap.

  63. pat January 30th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    He did not berate him. He marginalized his success in an Esquire article, I believe, and he was genuinely sorry for it. He sat outside his house and waited for him for hours to apologize.

    I know he didn’t.

    “An offense worse than using PEDs to some.” was a tongue in cheek response to mick’s
    “Arod came over here berating Jeter. That was a no-no.” because I think a big part Alex’s relationship with Yankee fans is they think they have to take sides between Derek and Alex.

    I guess I needed a tongue in cheek emoticon.

  64. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    “it really shouldn’t stop them from looking for something better…..probably will….but shouldn’t.”

    blake, get serious. :roll:

  65. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Aragorn stood for Something. A-Rod stands for Nothing.

  66. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Pruf, yes Feliz was awfully good in his short Trenton stint. Nice display of power. and yeah, Alex story in Esquire not SI.
    ///

    Feliz hasn’t been to Trenton yet :D.

  67. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    Pruf, I was writing Feliz, but of course thinking/meant Flores. Flores looked mighty good. :) Feliz is next, I hope. I could see him in AA soon.

  68. G. Love January 30th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    yanksfem,

    I think I might take you up on that or at the very least take in a game with you guys at the stadium this year if we can coordinate it.

  69. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    “zero harm if it’s cheap.”

    Is this a Brian Cashman dumpster diving quote? :)

  70. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    GLove, sounds like a plan. I am game for either.

  71. G. Love January 30th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    J.AP,

    Hafner’s the hairy monster after he’s been shaved. Like Gossamer, that orange monster in the Looney Tunes cartoons that Bugs Bunny gives a buzz cut to.

  72. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    A signing of Hafner would complete the signing of our all 2007 team. We would have a heck of a team if it weren’t for the pesky calendar.

    Still, worth a shot to fill the Ibanez role. It’s not like anyone better is coming.

  73. yanks61 January 30th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    mick January 30th, 2013 at 11:52 am
    Chad,
    You stated that quite eloquently.

    I’d like to second that, Chad. You continue to write excellent commentaries and do it several times. That’s truly special.

    —————————————————————

    Gil, through no fault of yours, the timing was bad, but your post interesting. The way Mo has pitched in the closer role, as the role has existed now for quite some time, is so extraordinary as to make him, everyone agrees, the greatest “closer of all time.”

    Gossage, IMHO, was the best of those (Eckersley, Fingers, Sutter, etc.) whose role often included longer innings in the course of game. Before THAT period, when”closers” were used in longer appearances, relief pitchers were often washed up starters and their role wasn’t given the same importance as closers are today. To a great degree that was because starters went far longer in the game, in fact were expected to normally pitch complete games.

    There WERE a few “specialist” relievers around; Hugh “Fireman” Casey on the Dodgers (and other teams) and Johnny Murphy and later Joe Page on the Yankees. But for the most part, teams hadn’t yet gone to “career” relievers as they have now, and they certainly never began as relievers. They all began as starters. In fact, Stengel never hesitated to bring in hard throwers like starters Raschi and Reynolds to close out an important game.

    Anyway, to go back to your comparison, it’s impossible to know how Mo might have fared having to pitch more like the Gossages, Eckersleys and Sutters, nor how they would have done in Mo’s situation. We can laud them all (and have) for what they did/still do in their own period. It was a different ballgame!

    But it’s very interesting to speculate, so good job to bring it up!

  74. yanks61 January 30th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    *and do it several times – a day!! (sorry about that)

  75. ac1 January 30th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    I dont care either way about Hafner, but we need righty power, not more lefty power.

  76. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    nah YF, C’s comment would be something like we see a player who has decent ops despite a down year. he is type of player that fits our mold. with the addition of Mr. Hafner it clearly give us more options at rh dh spot.

  77. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Mo pitched three innings in that 2003 ALCS game 7 and was superb. One of my greatest memories among many Mo memories.

    pat, we could use a few more emoticons. Tone without smilies is sometimes hard to determine.

  78. bruceb January 30th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    If and when A-Rod returns to the Yankees, perhaps he should enter to the sound of Lisa Stansfield’s Sincerity.

  79. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    YF,

    At least with the Astos moving to the AL I have another shot at seeing the big boys. I did notice they visit Houston for the last three games of the year. They could be big games or meaningless. I will catch one or more in any event.

  80. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Hafner issa 1 Dimensional player. NIX

  81. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY
    prolly this one, bruce.

  82. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    pat January 30th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    He did not berate him. He marginalized his success in an Esquire article, I believe, and he was genuinely sorry for it. He sat outside his house and waited for him for hours to apologize.

    I know he didn’t.

    “An offense worse than using PEDs to some.” was a tongue in cheek response to mick’s
    “Arod came over here berating Jeter. That was a no-no.” because I think a big part Alex’s relationship with Yankee fans is they think they have to take sides between Derek and Alex.

    I guess I needed a tongue in cheek emoticon.
    ///

    Yes, I know you hadn’t said it, but that this was mick’s quote under your username from previous back and forth. I was really just at odds with his word “berate”.

    I think that’s the true impetus, but it’s ridiculous, since they seem to have gotten past it themselves. I guess it doesn’t matter that Alex since has said things like “You’re an even greater player than I realized,” and that although he could have gone down as the greatest short stop of all time, we never hear a peep that he complained he should come here and be the SS. He played 3B from go, and it hasn’t ever been an issue, reportedly.

  83. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    Hafner would be a good pick up, actually. You just can’t please some people.

  84. G. Love January 30th, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    By the way, I’m happy to welcome Hafner to the Yankees. Considering our DH right now is the invisible man, he’ll do. Gotta imagine even this version of him as a player will find the RF porch accommodating.

    I’m just wondering if the team plan is to abstain when the opposition throws out a LH starter?

  85. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Juan Rivera will deter any of such thoughts from occurring.

  86. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    G. Love January 30th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    J.AP,

    Hafner’s the hairy monster after he’s been shaved. Like Gossamer, that orange monster in the Looney Tunes cartoons that Bugs Bunny gives a buzz cut to.
    ///

    LOL, certainly the version we’d be getting.

  87. ac1 January 30th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    I’m just wondering if the team plan is to abstain when the opposition throws out a LH starter?

    ___

    Hopefully they let Nunez DH v. lefties…..

  88. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22MZ21S2Syo

  89. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    u go with Pronkie or Hafnernie?

  90. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    “Rodriguez created this state of distrust.”

    Chad

    This latest report notwithstanding, has he created more distrust than Oritz?

    If so, how? If not, why the extreme double standard by the media at large?

    Ortiz, like A-Rod, is arguably a HoF. Ortiz, like A-Rod, had one PED revelation leaked about him.

    Ortiz, unlike A-Rod, didn’t make any even quasi-candid disclosures. Instead, he said he would get back to the media.

    It’s as if nothing ever happened with Ortiz.

    With A-Rod, it has been constant criticism and innuendo even before this latest report.

    So who has really created distrust?

    That doesn’t make A-Rod anything but an admitted cheater, but the treatment he has received prior to yesterday’s disclosure has been patently unfair.
    ///

    Great post, Rich.

    Ortiz is like MLB’s version of Santa Claus.

  91. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    From RAB…

    “Hafner, 34, hit .228/.346/.438 (119 wRC+) in 263 plate appearances for the Indians last season while dealing with a bulging disc in his lower back.”

    We’re already down the platoon-DH-road, and this is a good pick up. The guy will be A-OK if he does 119 wRC+ at Yankee Stadium.

  92. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    YF, arod only play your song with his prime boo :D

  93. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    yankeefem,

    Love it. Here’s the inimitable Nina Simone doing it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PipX3l1tEeU

  94. bruceb January 30th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Nice one, Cashmoney. Like me a bit of Bonnie Tyler. Good Welsh lass.

  95. G. Love January 30th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    RadioKev,

    What’s wRC+ in layman’s terms? I see it and I don’t know what it indicates?

  96. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:38 pm
    Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    “Rodriguez created this state of distrust.”

    Chad

    This latest report notwithstanding, has he created more distrust than Oritz?
    ——-

    I’m glad we’re all pragmatic and everything, and I agree Ortiz deserves heat, but what does David Ortiz have to do with Alex Rodriguez?

    It doesn’t. David Ortiz is no defense of A-Rod.

    If the reports are true, A-Rod cheated. Apologized. And cheated again.

    Don’t make excuses for him, please. Just take it for what it is.

  97. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    austinmac, glad to hear you’ll get to see the Yanks. Hopefully (or maybe not…) those games have some meaning, and a few of the kids have been added to the mix, post-September expanded roster.

  98. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    Runs created

  99. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    I hope Hafner does a nice job for us.

    But I can’t pretend I have much excitement about signing players who aren’t coming here to complement a young core, but who are here in lieu of it.

  100. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    G.Love re: runs created: http://www.fangraphs.com/libra.....fense/wrc/

  101. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    RadioKiev,

    I don’t think Rich was making excuses for Alex. I think he raised a very fair analogy to support his view that there is a double standard regarding Rodriguez.

    I was quoting from Rich’s excellent post.

  102. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    wRC = [((wOBA - lgwOBA)/wOBAScale) + (lgR/PA)] * PA
    wRC+ = 100 * (wRC/lgwRC)

  103. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    A wRC+ greater than 100 is above average

  104. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    What’s wRC+ in layman’s terms? I see it and I don’t know what it indicates?

    Its an offensive saber statistic. Means Pronk was 19% better than average hitter. wRC is runs created, and fangraphs bases their calculation on wOBA which is weighted on base average and that slaps together all the offensive statistics to make a ‘batting average’ number that is easy to read. Its like OPS but more keyed to batting average so the numbers are generally in the .300s. I am not sure if the formula still does, but it used to include SB and CS which were not captured in OPS, so it helped to get a value on base stealing guys.

  105. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    From Fangraphs:

    “Similar to OPS+, Weighted Runs Created Plus (wRC+) measures how a player’s wRC compares with league average. League average is 100, and every point above 100 is a percentage point above league average. For example, a 125 wRC+ means a player created 25% more runs than league average. Similarly, every point below 100 is a percentage point below league average, so a 80 wRC+ means a player created 20% fewer runs than league average.”

    RAB just prefers to site wRC+, but it’s doing something similar to OPS+ (but using wOBA).

    http://www.fangraphs.com/libra.....fense/wrc/

  106. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    bruce, I never realize that she is Welsh… but good lass certainly.

  107. mick January 30th, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    I guess it doesn’t matter that Alex since has said things like “You’re an even greater player than I realized,”
    ====================================
    Who cares what he says?
    Do you believe a thing he says?

  108. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Well, there is a double standard for A-Rod, absolutely. But that’s his life. The dude makes hundreds of millions of dollars. It isn’t fair, but it’s no defense either, was just my point.

    Gio Gonzalez is the guy that should getting grilled right now.

  109. pkyankfan69 January 30th, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Can’t go wrong with a 1 year deal for Hafner.

    .278/.385.470/.855 – Last 3 years vs lefties

    If he can stay healthy for at least a portion of the season he would likely be very productive vs lefty pitching during that time. If he’s hurt all year the Yanks waste a million bucks or so, not a big deal. At least Hafner has some potential at the plate unlike our recent worthless signings.

  110. blake January 30th, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    I have accepted the fate of the offseason….so I’ll take what marginal improvements I can at this point. Would I rather have Chase Headley…..of course….but Harfner does offer a potential upgrade over ghost man….who was scheduled to play DH previously.

    Yes….it’s come to this.

  111. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    So with Hafner, if he can stay healthy and keep that up, you’ve at least got one half of a productive DH. Then there’s the matter of the other half…

  112. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    Blake -

    Of course Headley would be the preferable option, but if you’re looking for a LH DH – Pronk is still a very solid option.

    You sign him and the lineup is:

    Ichrio
    Jeter
    Cano
    Tex
    Pronk
    Youk
    Granderson
    Romine
    Gardner

    Sure it would have been better 4 years ago – but it will still do some damage.

    Just try to make the best out of the situation.

  113. blake January 30th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    “So with Hafner, if he can stay healthy and keep that up, you’ve at least got one half of a productive DH. Then there’s the matter of the other half…”

    they’ll probably rotate Nunez, Jeter, and Youk through there

  114. blake January 30th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    Hafner is useful if he can play….dude could give NJ a run is fragility though.

  115. G. Love January 30th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    Thanks guys. Now I get it.

    I’m not spitting mad about Hafner if it happens. I just hope he’s still useful.

    Besides, we need someone to play 1b if Tex is hurt. You could move Youk there but then we have no 3b.

  116. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    No one cares about Gio outside of DC I’ll bet; Alex is the guy they love to hate. Is there even an article in the national media on Gio?

    Hafner, another guy like Youk who needs a bounce back year…

    Pruf, Off the top of my head, Nina’s version is more contemplative; Elvis’s more pleading/angry.

    I (im)patiently await that young core. Fingers crossed. And I do think in spite of the injury, Heathcott should have been on that top 100 list.

  117. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Sorry Chad – I’m not buying the “we should be rooting for Alex” thing.

    A lot of what was thrown his way early was undeserved, a result of people thinking you could only be a Yankee fan by liking Jeter and hating Alex, but on this issue he has used up all the good will I’m willing to give him.

    Do I think the Yankees will void his contract? No. But I do think, and at this point hope, I hope he has played his last game as a Yankee.

  118. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    blake January 30th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    “So with Hafner, if he can stay healthy and keep that up, you’ve at least got one half of a productive DH. Then there’s the matter of the other half…”

    they’ll probably rotate Nunez, Jeter, and Youk through there
    ————-

    Canzler and Mustellier too

  119. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    No one cares about Gio outside of DC I’ll bet; Alex is the guy they love to hate. Is there even an article in the national media on Gio?
    ————————–

    Alex is/was one of the best players in the game – he’s always going to generate a lot more interest than everyone else on that list.

  120. G. Love January 30th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Can Canzler, Diaz and Mustellier all make the roster if Nunez and backup C are on it?

  121. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Well, there is a double standard for A-Rod, absolutely. But that’s his life. The dude makes hundreds of millions of dollars. It isn’t fair, but it’s no defense either, was just my point.

    Gio Gonzalez is the guy that should getting grilled right now.
    ///

    This salary thing seems the real crux for so many, not their “higher standard”. And it can’t be that “that’s his life,”; we have to hold the undue criticism against him up to scrutiny.

    Why should the mainstream media get to take pot-shots at him because of the “millions he makes”?

    If that’s a just criteria for piling on him, then we CAN make “excuses” for him; for example, did you know that Alex’s father WALKED OUT on him when he was nine years old? Do you know, for example, that his single mother, left with raising her children alone, worked THREE JOBS to compensate for the errant father? Did you know Alex used to count her tips with her, from her waitressing job?

    Do you or I know what its like to have your father WALK OUT on you? I don’t know about you, but I just cannot relate to that at all. I had my father until his 85th year.

    So, if we’re going to use Alex’s wealth as a reason for him getting more abuse, then let’s by all means include what probably was the most devastating moment of his entire life: the day his father left and never came back.

  122. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Hafner is actually a big hairy monster, in that if his back is working he should provide a high average, very high OBP, and power.

    I wish he was more of a guarantee on the health side, but the Yankees can’t be signing real players.

  123. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    JAP -

    Alex craved the spotlight when things were going well and he got it. That spotlight doesn’t turn off when things are going badly.

  124. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Hafner is actually a big hairy monster, in that if his back is working he should provide a high average, very high OBP, and power.

    I wish he was more of a guarantee on the health side, but the Yankees can’t be signing real players.
    ——————

    Take a look – there aren’t any real players left to sign.

  125. JobaTipsHisCap January 30th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    now Yankees want to void contract?
    LOL, the chance is zero.

  126. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Can Canzler, Diaz and Mustellier all make the roster if Nunez and backup C are on it?

    No, but its possible 2 of them can. More realistically 1 of them will. Have to see what happens in spring but Canzler has the inside track being on the 40 man.

  127. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    I’m glad we’re all pragmatic and everything, and I agree Ortiz deserves heat, but what does David Ortiz have to do with Alex Rodriguez?

    It doesn’t. David Ortiz is no defense of A-Rod.

    If the reports are true, A-Rod cheated. Apologized. And cheated again.

    Don’t make excuses for him, please. Just take it for what it is.
    _

    Excuses? Did you miss this line in my post: “That doesn’t make A-Rod anything but an admitted cheater…”

    What do they have to do with each other? They are similarly situated individuals, which, it would seem, makes a fairly strong case that they should be treated equally…and…they are not, despite the fact that context is a very important way of viewing anyone’s transgressions.

  128. blake January 30th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    DKnobler ?@DKnobler
    Team USA increasingly optimistic about landing Verlander, @JonHeymanCBS writes. http://cbsprt.co/1184l7N

    this would be cool

  129. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Can Canzler, Diaz and Mustellier all make the roster if Nunez and backup C are on it?

    No, but its possible 2 of them can. More realistically 1 of them will. Have to see what happens in spring but Canzler has the inside track being on the 40 man.
    ——–

    My guess is the bench ends up as Canzler, Cervelli, Mustellier and either Nunez or Nix.

  130. blake January 30th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    “Hafner is actually a big hairy monster, in that if his back is working he should provide a high average, very high OBP, and power.”

    yes not the fake ones that only hit homers and strike out

  131. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Hafner’s an absolute upgrade over Ibanez.

  132. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    I’m sure ESPN is going to drag Alex through the mud at every opportunity – while running commercials with their light-hearted tone of David Ortiz hugging people on the street, and being carried around like a big teddy bear by those people.

  133. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    I’m sure ESPN is going to drag Alex through the mud at every opportunity – while running commercials with their light-hearted tone of David Ortiz hugging people on the street, and being carried around like a big teddy bear by those people.
    —————-

    ESPN slammed Ortiz when he was linked too. Much like the slammed Bonds, Giambi, Lance and many others.

  134. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Keep in mind, ESPN has also pretty much given Andy a pass on his HGH usage.

  135. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    JAP -

    Alex craved the spotlight when things were going well and he got it. That spotlight doesn’t turn off when things are going badly.
    //

    How about the losers pointing that spotlight shine it on the overall systemic issue, that MLB closes its eyes to, rather than a symptom of it?

    I’m not swallowing their “integrity of the game” load of bull, when they simply flagellate the same player over and over and over again.

  136. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    ESPN slammed Ortiz when he was linked too. Much like the slammed Bonds, Giambi, Lance and many others.
    ///

    I see how they slam him.

  137. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Were Hafner’s 3 DL stints because of the shoulder after his 2008 right shoulder surgery? And did he have the knee surgery in August of 2012? At least he doesn’t strike out and has a decent OBP. But… just hard to believe he will stay healthy.

  138. blake January 30th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Chip says:
    January 30, 2013 at 1:08 pm
    Hafner’s an absolute upgrade over Ibanez.

    If healthy yes…but that’s a big if.

  139. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    Pruf, Off the top of my head, Nina’s version is more contemplative; Elvis’s more pleading/angry.
    ///

    They are both originals.

  140. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    JAP -

    Alex craved the spotlight when things were going well and he got it. That spotlight doesn’t turn off when things are going badly.
    //

    How about the losers pointing that spotlight shine it on the overall systemic issue, that MLB closes its eyes to, rather than a symptom of it?

    I’m not swallowing their “integrity of the game” load of bull, when they simply flagellate the same player over and over and over again.
    ————————

    Did the media turn a blind eye? Yes. Did MLB? Yes. But the landscape has changed, the rules have changed and Alex continues to cheat and get caught and so both MLB and the press are calling him out on it.

    What should they do? Should they say, “Alex continues to lie and cheat but his father walked out on him so that’s okay because he’s the only sports’ star ever to have bad sh*t happen to him in his life.”

  141. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    ESPN would probably love to cover a human sacrifice with A-Rod.

    (that’s sarcasm for the stimulus bound)

  142. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    blake January 30th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    Chip says:
    January 30, 2013 at 1:08 pm
    Hafner’s an absolute upgrade over Ibanez.

    If healthy yes…but that’s a big if.
    ————-

    Yanks did a pretty good job milking two seasons out of Eric Chavez…hopefully history repeats.

  143. blake January 30th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    “Were Hafner’s 3 DL stints because of the shoulder after his 2008 right shoulder surgery? ”

    I think it’s because he had the opposite of the procedure Woverine had and was infused with a porcelain skeletal system

  144. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    I must have missed what is “undue” about the criticism of A-Rod. I mean, I guess some people are probably issuing death threats, somewhere out there, but most of the criticism is largely deserved because of his potential actions. (I guess he could be totally innocent? In either case, as Chad said, he’s enabled this criticism.)

    Maybe he acted because of Daddy issues, I don’t know. That’s a way bigger moral issue than anyone can really debate on a Yankees baseball blog, whether we really have the free will to make right or wrong decisions.

    But come on, it’s come down to that type of argument to try and defend Alex? And yet again, so what about Ortiz? We all agree Ortiz deserves more criticism. Try to find a single person in NY state who thinks otherwise! It seems like a totally irrelevant statement to try and rebut criticism of A-Rod.

  145. blake January 30th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    “Yanks did a pretty good job milking two seasons out of Eric Chavez…hopefully history repeats.”

    I agree…they have a history of getting value out of former good players with warts….so that’s one reason I like this move a lot if it happens

  146. Patrick January 30th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Eh who cares what A-rod did? There are clearly now PED’s that can’t be detected by any test. We might as well just assume that every player is doing something. MLB should just let the players do whatever drug they want and we can finally put the steroid crap to rest and just ignore it.

  147. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    Pruf, I was writing Feliz, but of course thinking/meant Flores. Flores looked mighty good. :) Feliz is next, I hope. I could see him in AA soon.
    ///

    Gotcha. Flores looks great. I was knocked out by his power – each time it was to dead center – I hadn’t figured on.

    They need to keep him; he looks like a hit-for-average with some power guy who is also a lefty.

  148. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Patrick January 30th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Eh who cares what A-rod did? There are clearly now PED’s that can’t be detected by any test. We might as well just assume that every player is doing something. MLB should just let the players do whatever drug they want and we can finally put the steroid crap to rest and just ignore it.
    ——————

    The issue isn’t necessarily about cheating at the ML level – it’s about steroid use in HS and college by kids who think that’s what they have to do to reach the ML level.

    And why should MLB allow players to do whatever they want when those drugs aren’t approved legally?

  149. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Patrick

    Incidentally the answer to your question about “who cares what A-rod did?” is: a lot of people.

  150. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Patrick January 30th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Eh who cares what A-rod did? There are clearly now PED’s that can’t be detected by any test. We might as well just assume that every player is doing something. MLB should just let the players do whatever drug they want and we can finally put the steroid crap to rest and just ignore it.
    ///

    Either that, or they have to give the players the proper lead time to get the stuff out of their systems and then actually put in place a lifetime ban. That’ll get them to stop using, and it would also pull the pulpit out from under these stupid columnists.

  151. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    Patrick, you mean like the NFL does? Let’s face it if MLB “conquers” the drug problem and suddenly no ballplayers recover quickly enough from game to game because of the duress of a long season, and everyone moves in quicksand for half the season, and attendance tanks, then what will MLB do? Legalize HGH? And if they are doing random HGH testing this year, what does that mean for our old, difficult to bounce back because of age issues ball club? So many questions. So few answers.

  152. Patrick January 30th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    Incidentally the answer to your question about “who cares what A-rod did?” is: a lot of people.

    It was a rhetorical question, obviously.

  153. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    Maybe he acted because of Daddy issues, I don’t know. That’s a way bigger moral issue than anyone can really debate on a Yankees baseball blog, whether we really have the free will to make right or wrong decisions.

    But come on, it’s come down to that type of argument to try and defend Alex? And yet again, so what about Ortiz? We all agree Ortiz deserves more criticism. Try to find a single person in NY state who thinks otherwise! It seems like a totally irrelevant statement to try and rebut criticism of A-Rod.
    ///

    RadioKiev, I merely suggested that if the Alex criticism is to include his making “hundreds of millions” as you stated, then he is also entitled to making the excuse that he had a troubled childhood.

    I did not suggest that his father’s desertion means he can do whatever he pleases.

    And again, I responded to Rich’s post, that did not make excuses for Alex or exonerate him from criticism: he made a perfectly valid comparison between Alex and Ortiz, and the fact that Ortiz gets off scott free in the court of public opinion, while Alex gets pummeled over and over again.

  154. Bronx Jeers January 30th, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    No one cares about Gio outside of DC I’ll bet; Alex is the guy they love to hate. Is there even an article in the national media on Gio?

    ————

    FWIW I read that the substances attributed to Gio in the ledger or whatever it is are not on the MLB banned list.

    Another thing is that if the dates are correct in the ledgers then ARod is at this guys office just days after his press conference in Feb of 2009

    Obviously the ledgers need to be proved genuine for any of this to matter.

  155. blake January 30th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    if they signed Hafner then the Yanks will have the ulitmate team 5 years ago

  156. David in Cal January 30th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    For some reason, Yankee fans never appreciated ARod as much as he deserved. He gave up his natural position at SS in order to join the Yanks. Had he stayed at SS, he’d now be considered the greatest SS of all time. He had great years with the Yanks. He carried the team through the 2009 post-season. Yet, even before his use of steroids was known, he wasn’t loved as much as he deserved.

  157. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    ESPN would probably love to cover a human sacrifice with A-Rod.

    (that’s sarcasm for the stimulus bound)
    ///

    Hey, in former times, this was a spectator sport. We are getting the metaphor of sacrifice when it comes to ARod already.

  158. blake January 30th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Ken Davidoff ?@KenDavidoff
    My take on A-Rod’s latest adventure. #Yankees http://bit.ly/WyfLwZ

    Davidoff gets it

  159. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 1:18 pm
    ESPN would probably love to cover a human sacrifice with A-Rod.

    (that’s sarcasm for the stimulus bound)

    ————————–

    As crazy as it sounds I’m sure there are some ppl who wouldn’t mind him losing his life as sad as it might be. When Bonds had his reality show he played msgs from his voice mail and it was brutal.

  160. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    “But come on, it’s come down to that type of argument to try and defend Alex? And yet again, so what about Ortiz? We all agree Ortiz deserves more criticism. Try to find a single person in NY state who thinks otherwise! It seems like a totally irrelevant statement to try and rebut criticism of A-Rod.”

    Context is never irrelevant.

  161. Patrick January 30th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    And why should MLB allow players to do whatever they want when those drugs aren’t approved legally?

    So should MLB have a rule that corresponds to every law in the United States and Canada? They don’t test for marijuana. If a player gets a DUI they don’t get suspended. If they catch someone doing an illegal substance let the police handle it.

    The main reason MLB banned PED’s is to protect the legacy of the game. The only reason we have testing is because players on steroids started breaking legendary MLB records. But it’s not like steroids or HGH is any more helpful than other modern advances in medicine and training.

  162. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    David in Cal,

    I believe the media drives opinion in many cases. But there were/are people who do appreciate Alex. His has been an astonishing talent to witness. He had tears in his eyes in 2009 down on the field; many of us were especially happy for him in that moment.

  163. mick January 30th, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    I’m sure ESPN is going to drag Alex through the mud at every opportunity – while running commercials with their light-hearted tone of David Ortiz hugging people on the street, and being carried around like a big teddy bear by those people.
    ===================================
    If that’s how they feel about him in Boston, that’s their business.
    No saying it would be any different if Ortiz played here.
    Arod, for whatever reason, is unlikable. Doubt he would be any different in Boston.
    Manny and Ortiz were likable. Prolly would be in NYC as well.
    Who cares…what espn thinks.

  164. mick January 30th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    Don’t confuse being sorry for someone with liking him.

  165. mick January 30th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    He carried the team through the 2009 post-season.
    ==========================
    But Matsui won it…

  166. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    Patrick, you mean like the NFL does? Let’s face it if MLB “conquers” the drug problem and suddenly no ballplayers recover quickly enough from game to game because of the duress of a long season, and everyone moves in quicksand for half the season, and attendance tanks, then what will MLB do? Legalize HGH? And if they are doing random HGH testing this year, what does that mean for our old, difficult to bounce back because of age issues ball club? So many questions. So few answers.
    ///

    True, right now they get to have it both ways: they give an appearance of cleaning up the game with these sporadic busts, and in the mean time, the players can energetically play out a schedule many have said should be shortened.

  167. Patrick January 30th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    The issue isn’t necessarily about cheating at the ML level – it’s about steroid use in HS and college by kids who think that’s what they have to do to reach the ML level.

    By the way Chip, steroid use in HS, college, minor leagues, latin america, etc is already rampant. I am friends with a lot of guys from HS and college that were drafted and spent some time in the minors. Steroids are everywhere. Nothing MLB does can change that. Might as well stop demonizing steroid users and let it happen.

  168. mick January 30th, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    When Bonds had his reality show he played msgs from his voice mail and it was brutal.
    ==============================
    the same guy who mocked the fans with his remarks about them being chumps while he was a millionaire able to play ball while chumps came to pay to see him play?
    that guy?

  169. FiretheUMPIRE January 30th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    Arod’s most committed fans must feel exhausted by now. You guys should take a break. The majority of fans outside the warped blogosphere don’t care for the guy and many are angry that we’re stuck with him for 5 more years.

    I’m happy the Yankees are publicly humiliating him leaking that they want out of that contract even though they know darn well it’s not happening.

    Benching him in the playoffs was a nice touch as well.

    If Girardi doesn’t put him on the field, he can’t reach his milestones.

    At some point the guy will feel at least a little embarrassed to show his face in front of the fans if he ever gets to the plate again.

    He’ll be booed mercilessly, the sound of which will blanket these faint cries to legalize drugs and make them OK to use in a family forum.

  170. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    mick January 30th, 2013 at 1:43 pm
    When Bonds had his reality show he played msgs from his voice mail and it was brutal.
    ==============================
    the same guy who mocked the fans with his remarks about them being chumps while he was a millionaire able to play ball while chumps came to pay to see him play?
    that guy?

    ————————-

    What’s worse calling someone a chump or racist remarks and death threats?

  171. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    mick January 30th, 2013 at 1:40 pm
    He carried the team through the 2009 post-season.
    ==========================
    But Matsui won it…
    ——-

    Thankfully we’ll always have that.

  172. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Thanks for posting, Blake. Good column by Davidoff.

  173. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    Matsui was great; so was Alex. Let’s not go there.

  174. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    blake, Thanks for posting this terrific piece, from which I’m going to quote a graph or two here:

    “Well, unless you’re shocked and saddened by this latest development, by the mere fact that this report even exists. If that’s the case, please allow me to grab you by the lapels, shake you and scream, “What is wrong with you?!”

    Have you not been paying attention to the world, to our species, for…your entire life?

    If you buy into the idea of our sports being “pure,” if you believe the notion of statistical integrity, then that’s on you. You’re not getting it.

    We have to stop viewing professional sports through a guilty/not guilty prism when it comes to illegal PEDs and switch to a caught/not caught prism. That doesn’t mean we should presume universal guilt. It means that we simply should stop worrying about it. Stop wringing our hands over it.”

    Read more: A-Rod’s latest adventure http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/.....z2JUD62R79

  175. kd January 30th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    can flores play 1b? maybe a backup to tex and then replace him in an ideal world?

    speaking of which, this is a pretty big year for tex right. if he hits .230 they’ve gotta start to think about how to get out from under that contract. or move him to 6 or 7 in the order

  176. FiretheUMPIRE January 30th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    So what happens when you picture the Alex Rodriguez plaque in Monument Park? The same thing happens to me.

  177. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    “As crazy as it sounds I’m sure there are some ppl who wouldn’t mind him losing his life as sad as it might be. When Bonds had his reality show he played msgs from his voice mail and it was brutal.”

    AAO

    After 86w18 asked me how I “know that Alex and his minions never killed anyone….”

    I thought that I shouldn’t take anything for granted. ;)

  178. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    mick January 30th, 2013 at 1:40 pm
    He carried the team through the 2009 post-season.
    ==========================
    But Matsui won it…
    ——-

    Thankfully we’ll always have that.
    ///

    Good luck having that without Alex, who easily could have been named MVP in his own right.

  179. FiretheUMPIRE January 30th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    While Alex Rodriguez milks every last coin over the next 5 years, maneuvering in and out of the lineup, on and off the disabled list, the Yankees front office, the media, the coaches and the fans can make it extremely painful for him while he does it.

    It’s going to be an ugly 5 years.

  180. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    kd January 30th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    can flores play 1b? maybe a backup to tex and then replace him in an ideal world?

    speaking of which, this is a pretty big year for tex right. if he hits .230 they’ve gotta start to think about how to get out from under that contract. or move him to 6 or 7 in the order
    ///

    He’s adequate enough in left. Have never seen him play 1B. Tyler Austin played a little first for Trenton last year.

  181. blake January 30th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Davidoff is really good at putting things in perspective….aside from not voting for Piazza because his WAR wasn’t high enough or whatever….he’s a really good writer

  182. mick January 30th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Good luck having that without Alex, who easily could have been named MVP in his own right.
    ========================
    If Matsui didn’t finish them off, we would forget what Alex did.

  183. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    The only thing I don’t agree with in Davidoff’s article is the last sentence lol. But I realize in comparison to the other major league sports baseball has gone the furthest in this area to prevent PED usage.

  184. FiretheUMPIRE January 30th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Mick don’t take that away from them. It’s really all they have. They can point to individual years where he mashed 50 HR but they know it’s tainted.

    Alex was juicing in 2009 anyways.

    Matsui, I doubt.

  185. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    The only thing I find more annoying than the people who get up on their high horse and say that doing steroids once should get you banned from the game are the people who get up on their high horse and state unquivically that steroids don’t do anything anyway and the people who get bent out of shape over players doing them are petty children.

  186. FiretheUMPIRE January 30th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    MLB has done the most to prevent PED’s because baseball is the best venue for families and the ballpark is a place where you bring children.

    Hockey, football, basketball, not so much.

  187. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Well, Hal has obviously managed to beat a lot of you guys down. Your acceptance of Hafner is proof positive of that. We get a lotta lip service around here, about wanting the Yanks to get younger and more athletic, and now your groveling for Hafner. Accepting mediocrity is Not the answer to Hal’s penny-pinching approach to constructing a roster. RISE UP. RISE UP I SAY.

  188. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 1:52 pm
    “As crazy as it sounds I’m sure there are some ppl who wouldn’t mind him losing his life as sad as it might be. When Bonds had his reality show he played msgs from his voice mail and it was brutal.”

    AAO

    After 86w18 asked me how I “know that Alex and his minions never killed anyone….”

    I thought that I shouldn’t take anything for granted.

    ——————–

    lol

  189. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    As for Davidoff – he’s right that baseball’s held to a different standard – that when an NFL player recovers from ACL surgery in 3 weeks we don’t even think twice. But the difference there, I think, is that we have more respect for baseball players than football players who we quite regularly treat as replaceable pieces of meat.

  190. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Take what away? I don’t give a good goddamn if he used in 2009. My assumption is that most players use something, and I don’t really care, since it’s a league-wide thing, apparently.

  191. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    I can’t wait until spring training starts and we get all this rehashing of the Arod situation over with in the first day or so.

    Ask all the guys about it on day one and never mention it again until he returns lol.

  192. blake January 30th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    “The only thing I find more annoying than the people who get up on their high horse and say that doing steroids once should get you banned from the game are the people who get up on their high horse and state unquivically that steroids don’t do anything anyway and the people who get bent out of shape over players doing them are petty children.”

    step away from the hyperbole chamber :)

  193. FiretheUMPIRE January 30th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Baseball has a clean image to uphold as being a place where you can spend the day with the family. That’s why baseball as a sport is so iconic. The game reaches across generations. You see grandparents, parents and children all in the same row of seats.

  194. mick January 30th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Chip-
    They are in the minority. Let them have their say. Hal is smelling blood right now and Arod is done as a Yankee.

  195. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Who’s “we”? I don’t have “more respect” for baseball players than football players.

    Your problem is, you have naively deified baseball players, and then when they behave as humans will – imperfectly – you behave like a spurned lover.

    Who would ever assume someone, by virtue of playing a game, lives and acts on a higher “moral” ground?

    Time to seize the remains of the day.

    Good one, all.

  196. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 2:03 pm
    Take what away? I don’t give a good goddamn if he used in 2009. My assumption is that most players use something, and I don’t really care, since it’s a league-wide thing, apparently.
    ———

    I mean, OK, if you want. Sports fans are willing to justify just about anything to themselves when it’s THEIR team involved. I think the team earned that 2009 World Series Championship, and A-Rod was certainly a part of it, but I do still find it disappointing.

  197. FiretheUMPIRE January 30th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    It’s goons like Giambi and Arod who make it look bad and disappoint little children.

  198. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    The NFL is where it’s at due to Vegas. Short and simple.

  199. mick January 30th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Take what away? I don’t give a good goddamn if he used in 2009. My assumption is that most players use something, and I don’t really care, since it’s a league-wide thing, apparently.
    ==================================
    This is what is wrong with using.
    The playing field is no longer level.
    Players are pressured to use to keep up.
    They all use so that makes it right?
    No wonder MLB appears to be cracking down.
    It’s the only right thing left to do…

  200. blake January 30th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzO7Eo0xeQ0

    if Arod had this done….would that be performance enhancing?

  201. Bronx Jeers January 30th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    ” It’s a long way away, though, and A-Rod’s hiring of Roy Black and strong denial yesterday indicate that he’s going to fight this passionately. Which means that this is going to be a very fun story.”

    ———-

    I guess it’s fun for those who get paid to write about it but for those trying to focus on the 25 guys wearing pinstripes this season it sucks.

  202. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    Kev – Are those championships in 99 and 2000 with Clemens also disappointing in retrospect? I mean.. at this point it isn’t like any one team has a monopoly on morality. You could probably find a cheater on every team that’s won in the past decade.

  203. Chip January 30th, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    mick –

    I think you’re probably right.

    The Yankees won’t be able to void the contract – there’s no standing for them to do so. But the discussion is going on right now, “is the production that we’re going to get from Alex over the next 5 years worth the nonsense that he brings with him?” If the answer is a resounding “no” then the Yankees might well Jason Bay him. Buy out his contract – maybe get him to defer some of the money for future years – and just clear out the roster spot and get him out of the clubhouse.

  204. kd January 30th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    thanks j. alfred.

  205. FiretheUMPIRE January 30th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    I think it’s fantastic whenever someone is outed as a cheater.

  206. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    A-Rod ain’t gonna fight jack. He’s gonna lay low, and disappear as much as possible during his physical and public rehabilitation.

  207. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 2:09 pm
    Kev – Are those championships in 99 and 2000 with Clemens also disappointing in retrospect? I mean.. at this point it isn’t like any one team has a monopoly on morality. You could probably find a cheater on every team that’s won in the past decade.
    ——–

    It is what it is. I’ve loved that hell out of that ’09 Championship win and team for years. But if this all proves to be true, that A-Rod went to HGH in 2009, it’s hard to not look at those postseason home runs without a grain of salt.

    I find the politics of the “steroid era” forgivable to seem degree, but admitting you used, saying you’re sorry and that you screwed up, and then to go back to cheating? C’mon. He doesn’t get a pass if this is true.

  208. Patrick January 30th, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    if Arod had this done….would that be performance enhancing?

    Yes because then everyone would feel pressured to get ancient japanese healing to compete!

  209. mick January 30th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    Chip
    What I find curious was the way he was treated in the ALDS.
    It’s as if they knew this was coming and launched a 1st strike.
    It was not normal.
    They didn’t know he was hurt till then? So they benched him?
    On top of that, he’s rolling balls to groupies in the stands?
    He just doesn’t care.
    This was the beginning of the humiliation…no way they want him here anymore.

  210. pat January 30th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    BaseballHall
    Only one day left to apply for 2013 #internships at the Hall of Fame! Deadline to apply is Thursday! http://ow.ly/hgbCz

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    Baseball HoF is accepting applications for interns. Rumor is that none will be selected to avoid cheapening deeds of previous interns.

  211. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    We have no idea who cheated, except for players whose names were leaked. Given how wide it has been reported that usage was/is, if you are looking for taint, everything in MLB for at least 20 years is tainted, probably in all sports. It’s a slippery slope to try to figure out who used and who didn’t.

  212. blake January 30th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Erin Andrews ?@ErinAndrews
    I was going to ask u..u’d be the guy that would know RT @RealCJ10: How exactly do you go about ‘extracting’ deer antler extract???

    I think Erin was just joking about Chipper being a hunter…..but she better be careful or a swarm of reporters will surround his house asking if he took deer antler extract

  213. Rich in NJ January 30th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Sorry, I meant to include this post by RK:

    I mean, OK, if you want. Sports fans are willing to justify just about anything to themselves when it’s THEIR team involved. I think the team earned that 2009 World Series Championship, and A-Rod was certainly a part of it, but I do still find it disappointing.

    Before my post:

    We have no idea who cheated, except for players whose names were leaked. Given how wide it has been reported that usage was/is, if you are looking for taint, everything in MLB for at least 20 years is tainted, probably in all sports. It’s a slippery slope to try to figure out who used and who didn’t.

  214. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    Think those Red Sox fans are disappointed over the Manny-Ortiz titles of 2004 and 2007. Pedro, Varitek and Damon were also on lists. Oops.

  215. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Kev – But does the same apply to the earlier championship teams with known users? Is it because there’s no specific evidence showing Clemens cheated during that time? Hell, I don’t buy Andy’s story for a second so I have a hard time believing he was clean all that time, especially the years Roger was there and they had their little training clique.

  216. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    As for Giambi and ARod being bad examples for the kiddies, what about all the philanderers, the players who are racist, sexist, the Cash-Meanwell saga, Selig looking the other way, etc. Parents have the responsibility to teach their kids morals, baseball not so much, and if baseball uses that image to sell their game, then they are hypocrites.

  217. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    :arrow:

  218. mick January 30th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Given how wide it has been reported that usage was/is, if you are looking for taint, everything in MLB for at least 20 years is tainted, probably in all sports. It’s a slippery slope to try to figure out who used and who didn’t.
    ===================
    Exactly. This taint has hurt the game immeasurably starting with this years HOF induction.
    But let’s get behind the players, make it legal or ignore it, cause everyone’s doing it.
    Talk about selfishness, let’s ruin the game’s integrity so that players can put up artificial numbers.
    No wonder JAP high tailed it out of here, bringing up this premise. Nothing new.

  219. FiretheUMPIRE January 30th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    All the other bad guys are just as bad, but we’re talking about Arod right now, not deflecting towards other bad guys.

  220. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
    Kev – But does the same apply to the earlier championship teams with known users? Is it because there’s no specific evidence showing Clemens cheated during that time? Hell, I don’t buy Andy’s story for a second so I have a hard time believing he was clean all that time, especially the years Roger was there and they had their little training clique.
    ———-

    I don’t think things are totally black and white, but sure, it would have to.

  221. johnjacobjingleberryjones January 30th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    From the first day, I was a big Arod booster. He was one of those guys where everybody stopped what they were doing to focus on the situation. I forgave him and defended him to all of my friends and fellow posters after the first PED scandal, because it is my philosophy to forgive and forget. I was always a fan of Arod’s work ethic which is second to none, and his baseball IQ and hustle, too. That being said, I am holding back right now and hoping that this latest news is proven false. But if it is not, I will wash my hands of Arod and boo him as loudly as anyone at the Stadium.

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