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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pinch hitting: Gil Teitelbaum

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jan 30, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Up next in our Pinch Hitter series is Gil Teitelbaum, who’s originally from New York but now lives in Beit Shemesh, Israel with his wife and four kids. Gil wrote that he’s, “grateful for the internet and the ability to still follow and watch the Yankees from halfway around the world.”

For his post, Gil decided to not blindly accept the common narrative. He legitimately asks, is Mariano Rivera really the greatest reliever of all time?

This is most likely Mariano Rivera’s last season. Most people think he is the greatest reliever in the history of the game.

Before Rivera came along, Goose Gossage was considered by many to be the greatest reliever ever — although fans of Sutter, Fingers or Eckersley might have disagreed. Around the time Gossage was elected to the hall, he talked about the greatness of Rivera, but also pointed out how relievers in Gossage’s day had to do much more than relievers today.

Back then, when the starter tired, the fireman was expected to come in with men on base, extinguish the rally and finishing the game. It was actually a more exciting experience to watch — seeing a star closer come in with men on base in a close game. The way relievers were used made more sense. In a close game, with men on base, wouldn’t it make sense to have your best pitcher come in and try to limit the damage? By the ninth inning, the game could already be lost.

It’s interesting to look at how the role of relievers changed over the course of Gossage’s career. In 1975, his best season, Gossage pitched three or more innings 21 times and topped an astonishing seven innings in relief three times that year. By 1982 he pitched three or more innings three times, and by 1985 he didn’t pitch any three-inning outings.

When Rivera became a reliever, closers were mostly limited to pitching the ninth inning only. While Rivera also pitched mostly one-inning outings during the regular season, his postseason usage is very similar to relievers from Gossage’s era since Rivera has been called to do a large number of multi-inning outings.

It’s interesting to ponder — given how much harder it is to pitch longer and with men on base — is Rivera really better than Gossage?

Gossage’s ERA (2.09) as a reliever during his prime (1975 to 1985) was better than Rivera’s career ERA (2.21), while pitching in longer outings and coming in with men on base. Looking at numbers this way, it really looks like Gossage was Rivera’s equal.

While Rivera has not had to pitch nearly as many multi-inning appearances as Gossage, he has shown that he excels at it. Pitching in the postseason might be a more stressful situation than coming into a regular season game with men on base.

It’s not hard to find relievers who have had seasons that match up well with the best seasons Rivera has had. What separates Mariano is how he has consistently produced only excellent seasons over so many years. His prolonged regular season excellence alone puts him ahead of Gossage. His postseason dominance make this comparison not even close.

Associated Press photos

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178 Responses to “Pinch hitting: Gil Teitelbaum”

  1. jacksquat January 30th, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Seems all the writers are predicting we’ve seen the last of Arod. Not sure if they all mean on the Yankees or in baseball.

    I don’t see how it happens, without insurance fraud.

    Voiding the contract is extremely unlikely.

    Arod is not just going to forfeit 114 mil and retire.

    Are the Yankees really about image, or do they just want to escape from an albatross contract? We’ll find out when they have the choice of releasing him, trading him for pennies on the dollar, or keeping him and getting what they can out of him.

    I suspect the latter.

  2. comet January 30th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    Check out MLBTR which has a senario that gets the Yankees off the hook for most of ARod’s salary but probably not for salary cap purposes.

  3. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 9:11 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 9:00 am
    Ian O’Connor is a cheap shot artist and always full of high sentence. Whenever I’ve heard that voice I turn the dial,

    ———————–

    I’ll never forget when he made his way in the Boss’ house when he was sick beyond belief and decided to write a story about how much in poor shape he was.

  4. jacksquat January 30th, 2013 at 9:14 am

    Like I said, without insurance fraud.

    Arod had his hip operated on by a specialist doctor at the top of his field, who declared the operation a success and noted that there was only relatively minor cartilage damage. Even before surgery Arod still hit better than many 3B.

    I think it’s very unlikely it goes from there to “unable to play”, legally.

  5. Bronx Jeers January 30th, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Mariano’s got 141 postseason innings with an ERA of .70

    In the immortal words of the great poet Stanley Kirk Burrell….. U Can’t Touch This !!

  6. PacoDooley January 30th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    Getting insurance relief for A-Rod’s contract would definitely help the team if the owners are willing to spend any money. While it doesn’t diminish the team salary for luxury tax purposes, it does mean that the team is paying less our in payroll and therefore, would have that money to spend. It is probably not enough to warrant them going over the tax threshold, but it could add flexibility.

  7. Bronx Jeers January 30th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Those hoping for the retirement/insurance relief route should read the following.

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......ud-lovely/

    It’s not like insurance companies write $100MM dollar checks without a fight.

  8. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 9:07 am
    he’s got less than a week until he plays in a Championship game and normally at a time when football would be front and center his own PED usage is being shunted aside for Arod.

    —————————-

    Even if A-rod wasn’t involved it would be shunted. A few months ago of couple of Seattle Seahawk players were facing suspensions for PEDs. Yea it was mentioned but there wasn’t hours spent on it. Richard Sherman one of the players involved appealed it, won on a technicality but there was no outrage. Braun wins his appeal and you would think he committed a war crime.

    “According to the written decision, Sherman’s sample cup began leaking, to which the tester grabbed another cup and transferred the sample. Documentation of the leaking cup was not originally on the submitted report following the test and only when asked by a supervisor in October did the tester acknowledge the sample being transferred from the original cup.”

  9. comet January 30th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    The insurance company might well try to void ARod’s contract because he used PEDs.

  10. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    I’ll never forget when he made his way in the Boss’ house when he was sick beyond belief and decided to write a story about how much in poor shape he was.
    ///

    Odds, did he break in, like Selena Roberts did on ARod’s property??

    These writers remind me of fundamentalists who lack all humanity and just bang their “wages of sin/eternal damnation” drum. I have noted the Ray Lewis comps here; indeed, the NFL and its fans scarcely notice these transgressions.

  11. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 8:53 am

    Shame,

    I would be stunned If Alex were ever to name names of colleagues or teammates. I don’t believe he would ever do that.

    —————

    I’m not saying he would.. I’m saying he could go that route and I dunno that anyone could really blame him. Coaches are selling out their former teams/FOs, Arod is already a villain in the eyes of almost everyone, and he might have very little to lose and a lot of money to gain by just saying a big eff you to everyone.

    It doesn’t seem like the style for a guy that so much wants to be loved..but who is to say he might decide that he doesn’t owe the Yankees or MLB a damn thing?

  12. comet January 30th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Good morninfg Shame, Pru!

    This whole PEDs mess is just waing to blow apart!

  13. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    They’re talking about Lewis and PEDs on Mike and Mike… they’re saying what he took was something you sprayed on your tongue. If they tested him even the next day, it wouldn’t show up on a drug test. This is like over the counter stuff, basically. They’re actually arguing this stuff isn’t bad for you under doctor supervision. Mike is saying HGH pills are recommended for people over 50 to help them stay in shape. They’re basically having the argument we had yesterday lol.

    They’re not having this conversation in relation to Arod, just Lewis lol… but they might get to that next.

  14. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    Morning comet!! Good to see you around. This whole thing is laughable, but somewhere out there Manti Te’o is grinning like an idiot.

  15. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    Shame, I would guess that the inner world is pretty insulated and protected. However, I would love to see all the names of mlb “users” (a tall order; it’ll never happen), so that we can put to rest this idea that the few players who are “outed” are the anomalies in the purer than the driven snow game called baseball that we all love. Just stop the hypocrisy, which is led by a bunch of sanctimonious writers who do better reporting the news instead of moralizing.

  16. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    I’m not saying he would.. I’m saying he could go that route and I dunno that anyone could really blame him. Coaches are selling out their former teams/FOs, Arod is already a villain in the eyes of almost everyone, and he might have very little to lose and a lot of money to gain by just saying a big eff you to everyone.

    It doesn’t seem like the style for a guy that so much wants to be loved..but who is to say he might decide that he doesn’t owe the Yankees or MLB a damn thing?
    ///

    Shame,

    Alex actually does have friends in MLB. I believe Michael Young was best man at his wedding, for example; Cano and Cabrera not only are friends with him, but look up to him. He’s friends with retired players, too, like Posada and Doug Mientkiewicz – the latter probably are even more old school about “outing” a tribe member.

    I don’t think you could get Alex to spill about anyone. He might suggest what GMs and “trainers” have already admitted: that PED use is fairly epidemic in MLB, but I think he’d go to his grave without naming names.

  17. randy l. January 30th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    here’s a whole lot of ethical and moral issues going on with alex and the yankees.

    when chad brought up the question of real fan/ fair weather bandwagon fan last week i thought about what the team itself is all about. what are the new york yankees? do they stand for something?

    the yankees are certainly more than just who the particular owner of them is. whoever is in that role is really just a caretaker of a long legacy going back over a hundred years.

    at some point there has to be something good about an organization for it to have value. for example , the KKK has no value and is obviously the bad guys. then there are corporations like some of the new york banking institutions who do good and bad at the same time, or other corporations in the chemical and pharmaceutical fields like monsanto with it’s genetically modified crops which almost for sure do harm to human beings but are great for profit making.

    so here’s poor alex in a world of corporations who blur morality all the time playing for the new york yankees , a business entity that has no defined moral compass but a vague historical culture of excellence on the field.

    if the yankees don’t really know what they are all about. if they exist in a world where it’s really just the bottom line that determines winners from losers, why is anyone upset with alex rodriguez? is it simply that he got caught?

    what are fans really looking for? are the looking for the yankees to stand for something in a moral sense, in a righteous sense?

    if they are, alex rodriguez using HGH is just a tip of the iceberg as far as finding something that is wrong with the culture of the yankees. in other words it’d be pretty pompous and the pot calling the kettle black for the yankee organization to come down on alex rodriguez when the yankees have no real moral compass themselves except the bottom line.

    the yankees as an organization have allied themselves with goldman sachs which probably should have had many of it’s key executives in jail after what they did to the us housing industry and the economy. in bed with rupert murdoch? the political phone hacker and tabloid journalist ?

    seriously, what standards is it that alex rodriguez is supposed to meet up to? brain cashman’s moral standards ?

    personally i do think the yankees , when at their best historically, are about something that means something( think lou gehrig), but right now they really have no business taking the high moral ground with alex rodriguez.

    when the yankees really stand for something again, then they can take that position. for now, they really just need to slink away and let alex’s problems run their legal course.

  18. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    Mike Ri January 30th, 2013 at 7:42 am
    shamefully …I do Juice . ..and Blake your right . . Its not just a physical thing … Juice gives you a boost of confidence and a sense of invincibility, both in and out of the gym.

    ————————

    How long have you been on it if you don’t mind me asking and any side effects?

  19. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    If the Yankees can get out of paying A-Rod’s contract, it would be unjustifiable for them not to spend more and go over the $189m budget. That $100m in savings would make up for the salary cap penalties, right?

  20. Stoneburner - The Return of Wax January 30th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    I am putting my money on that the Yanks find a way to either get out of this ARod mess by claiming ARod went or sought medical treatment outside or without the team’s knowledge. Whether this leads to an all at fight with ARod and the player’s union – who knows – by the commissioner cannot penalize ARod for going being treated by someone without the Yanks blessing – commissioner can penalize ARod if the treatment is a banned substance – two different situations. I think this thing settles after a brief messy court fight, because ARod wants not part of being sworn under oath in a deposition.

  21. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    comet January 30th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Good morninfg Shame, Pru!

    This whole PEDs mess is just waing to blow apart!
    ///

    Morning comet,

    The radio airwaves are thick this morning – with hypocrisy. Can we have a new paradigm, please.

  22. blake January 30th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    “It’s interesting to ponder — given how much harder it is to pitch longer and with men on base — is Rivera really better than Gossage?”

    yes. Rivera’s ERA + is 206 (otherwise known as the best of all time) to Gossages’s 126. Goose couldn’t hold Mo’s jockey strap

  23. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 9:46 am

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_.....rafficking

    Dickey is an interesting guy.

  24. 86w183 January 30th, 2013 at 9:46 am

    The fact that the surgeon proclaimed Alex’s surgery a success doesn’t mean a damn thing. When have you ever heard a surgeon says anything else??

    The bottom line is the rehab. Can he regain range of motion, flexibility, strength. Will it be able to withstand the torque required for swinging a bat?

    What if AVN (Avascular Necrosis) sets in (a very real possibility)?? That’s a condition in which the blood circulation to a joint is compromised. It ended Bo Jackson’s career and is threatening Mike Napoli’s.

    There are very real issues that could result in Alex Rodriguez being physically incapable of resuming his baseball career.

  25. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 9:46 am

    *who’d

  26. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    I wanna be a little more clear, actually.. I didn’t mean outting players. Sorry, I should have been more specific there. There are trainers, coaches, and FOs that I’m sure could be implicated. That was more my meaning…. he could not name other players and still bring the house of cards MLB has built the post-steroid era down in a heartbeat.

  27. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    86, wait for 6-12 months you will find out.

  28. Mike Ri January 30th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Mike Ri January 30th, 2013 at 7:42 am
    shamefully …I do Juice . ..and Blake your right . . Its not just a physical thing … Juice gives you a boost of confidence and a sense of invincibility, both in and out of the gym.

    ????????

    How long have you been on it if you don?t mind me asking and any side effects?

    Against all odds –

    i’ve been on it for 2 years now . . .off and on ….
    Side Effects …. slight acne … bloat…….mood swings,,, joint pain ,,,

  29. blake January 30th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    I think its interesting that so many folks are talking about it being insurance fraud for Alex to be deemed unable to play potentially…..is it that big of a stretch to suggest that a 37 year old with 2 bum hips can no longer play at a big league level? I don’t think so……and I really don’t think Alex would have to find some shady online MD to say that.

  30. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    @craigcalcaterra

    Here’s better advice to A-Rod: go to Selig tomorrow, fall on your sword, get your 50-game suspension while on the DL, miss no time.

  31. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    @craigcalcaterra

    That would drive people absolutely frickin’ NUTS.

  32. blake January 30th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    “i’ve been on it for 2 years now . . .off and on ….
    Side Effects …. slight acne … bloat…….mood swings,,, joint pain ,,,”

    can you hit baseballs better? You should try that and see

  33. comet January 30th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Good to be around Shame! Can’t you find a way to inject some sex in this ARod thing?

  34. randy l. January 30th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    i don’t even consider gossage that much of a yankee. nothing like mariano who really is as good as it gets in every way both on the field and off.

    as far as i’m concerned ,gossage was a very good hired gun for a few years with the yankees.
    he spent most of his career with other teams. he’s not really a yankee in the sense mariano is a yankee.

  35. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Mike and Mike are saying that if players are tired of PED talk they should allow a clause in contracts that allows you to void contracts for PED usage.

    MLBPA will never do that.

    Which tells you all you need to know lol.

  36. Mike Ri January 30th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    can you hit baseballs better? You should try that and see

    ——
    LOL LOL .

  37. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 9:55 am

    “is it that big of a stretch to suggest that a 37 year old with 2 bum hips can no longer play at a big league level”

    Well Blake, I’ve got no idea how it all works, but I would imagine ‘at a big league level’ is not the qualifier it takes for insurance to kick in. I think it means he would have to be physically unable to stand up, swing a bat, and run the bases.

  38. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 9:55 am

    The disability insurance company will require significant proof that he can no longer play. They will have the right to have him examined by doctors of their choosing. It will be fight, but AROD may legitmately not be able to play. We will not know the outcome for many months of his surgery.

    I can foresee no likelihood AROD will walk away if he can still play.

    It does seem ridiuclous that the team still has his salary on the books for cap purposes even if he is disabled. Under that circumstance, they would save real money, but not cap money. Would that change how they spend since they would still be subject to cap penalties?

  39. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Gil, interesting post. I’m sorry that it had to come when it did, with the Arod news obviously pemeating the pores of Yankee fans everywhere!

    There’s are different kinds of hard. While it might take a look more endurance to pitch three innings to end out a game, the skill and psychological stamina it takes to close a game a la Rivera to me tops the chart. One way to look at the Gossage-era relievers, when they were used for multiple innings, is that those innings also saw extra chances given to their teams to score runs. When you’re the 9th-inning guy, it’s pretty much do or die. It’s hold-em or potential fold-em time. Even though a BS might end up okay and the game might be extended into extra innings that gives your team a chance to get the lead back, it doesn’t always happen that way.

    Here’s another thing to look at. During Mariano’s career, the Yankees have been to the postseason just about every year. How many times did Goose see the postseason? There is no doubt in my mind that Goose earned the HOF. But I tend to look at pitching for the Yankees as something different than pitching for other teams – playing for the Yankees at all, the same way. Goose earned his stripes playing for 9 different teams, not all of them competitive when he pitched for them. Mariano has helped to carry the most storied team in the history of organized sports, both during the regular season and in the postseason. He’s done it with one team, the team expected to win it all every year.

    I’m with you, and probably every other person walking this earth (except for maybe Goose) who has an opinion on the best reliever in the history of baseball. Hands down, Mariano Rivera.

  40. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    comet – I wish I could!! This whole thing is so unsexy even I can’t save it… which is saying a lot. ;)

  41. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    “You! Hypocrite lecteur! – mon semblable, -mon frère!”

  42. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Mo is probably the most dominant and consistent relief pitcher I will ever see in my life. Durability,stuff and precision over a period of almost 20 years.

  43. jacksquat January 30th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    86w183 January 30th, 2013 at 9:46 am
    The fact that the surgeon proclaimed Alex’s surgery a success doesn’t mean a damn thing. When have you ever heard a surgeon says anything else??

    The bottom line is the rehab. Can he regain range of motion, flexibility, strength. Will it be able to withstand the torque required for swinging a bat?

    What if AVN (Avascular Necrosis) sets in (a very real possibility)?? That’s a condition in which the blood circulation to a joint is compromised. It ended Bo Jackson’s career and is threatening Mike Napoli’s.

    There are very real issues that could result in Alex Rodriguez being physically incapable of resuming his baseball career.

    You’ve never heard a surgeon say there were “complications”? Hell, sometimes the patient dies. Real doctors not trying to sell boobs or something generally tell it like it is. He said it went well. Is it a guarantee he’ll be fine?

    Mostly wishful thinking here I think. The insurance company will investigate any claim that he can’t play again, so it better be real.

  44. 86w183 January 30th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Guys I’ve dealt with this very issue with a disability insurance policy and an athlete.

    All of those policies spell out exactly what determines “disability” and who makes that determination. It likely spells out the Doctor or hospital the two parties agreed to up front.

    This is not disability coverage for a working shmoe… it’s for an elite professional athlete and THAT is the standard that the determination will be based on.

  45. Cashmoney January 30th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    oh yeah, Mo has class.

  46. blake January 30th, 2013 at 10:01 am

    “Well Blake, I’ve got no idea how it all works, but I would imagine ‘at a big league level’ is not the qualifier it takes for insurance to kick in. I think it means he would have to be physically unable to stand up, swing a bat, and run the bases.”

    He signed to play major league baseball….if he can no longer play baseball well then a doctor could deem him unable to play or unable to play without causing further damage to degenerative hips…..that second part would be pretty easy for a doc to say….say he could play but it could cause further damage and we recommend he doesn’t for his health….then what is anybody gonna say?

  47. blake January 30th, 2013 at 10:02 am

    “This is not disability coverage for a working shmoe… it’s for an elite professional athlete and THAT is the standard that the determination will be based on.”

    correct….I don’t think he merely has to be able to hold a bat and plod around the bases…..an 85 year old could do that.

  48. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 10:02 am

    It seems like A-Rod’s Yankee days are done. These reports are the beginning of the end.

  49. pat January 30th, 2013 at 10:03 am

    “There are very real issues that could result in Alex Rodriguez being physically incapable of resuming his baseball career.”

    except none of those issues exist today so saying he should just collect insurance money today would be considered a fraudulent claim.

  50. 86w183 January 30th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Pat —-

    Absolutely. He is not permanently disabled now. However he still has a torturous re-hab ahead of him before he can play MLB. They should have a pretty good idea in 90 days how the rehab is going in general and whether or not AVN occurs specifically.

  51. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    I obviously haven’t seen the insurance policy, but I believe 86w183 is likely correct. If he cannot do the physical activities required of his job, he is disabled. Pain could cause disability and that is where AROD comes into play. If he has a real ongoing condition that he says causes significant pain when he tries to play ball, he is also likely disabled.

    On the other hand, if AROD says he can play, forget it.

  52. Yankee Trader January 30th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Blake-

    Unless ARod cannot recover from the latest sugery on his left hip and needs a hip replacement to be able to better able do daily functions, let alone play baseball at the major league level, I don’t think there is a chance that an MD will take on the fight with a big insurance company, that will do everything in it’s power, including hiring detectives, to show that he is not permanently disabled and therefore will not pay the Yankees.

    Mike Napoli will need a hip replacement for the avascular necrosis he has, at some point. I suspect ARod will be headed down that road in the future.

  53. jacksquat January 30th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    randy l. January 30th, 2013 at 9:52 am
    i don’t even consider gossage that much of a yankee. nothing like mariano who really is as good as it gets in every way both on the field and off.

    as far as i’m concerned ,gossage was a very good hired gun for a few years with the yankees.
    he spent most of his career with other teams. he’s not really a yankee in the sense mariano is a yankee.

    6 = “a few”?

    Age 26-31, his prime years at that. The majority of his saves.

    Just because you may not like the guy’s personality doesn’t mean you have to make dishonest statements.

  54. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    I would be saddened if Alex were never to play baseball again.

    It also occurs to me that the kind of fan who has breathed hellfire about Rodriguez through the years also happens to be the kind of Yankee fan on this board that I don’t like.

    Alex is not a martyr, but Shirley Jackson’s “The Lottery” does come to mind. The problem is, it always seems to be Alex’s turn, doesn’t it? Is there not something very wrong with that?

  55. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Mike Ri January 30th, 2013 at 9:50 am
    Mike Ri January 30th, 2013 at 7:42 am
    shamefully …I do Juice . ..and Blake your right . . Its not just a physical thing … Juice gives you a boost of confidence and a sense of invincibility, both in and out of the gym.

    ????????

    How long have you been on it if you don?t mind me asking and any side effects?

    Against all odds –

    i’ve been on it for 2 years now . . .off and on ….
    Side Effects …. slight acne … bloat…….mood swings,,, joint pain ,

    ——————

    Thanks for sharing.

    So basically is the normal side effects that most users experience. I don’t use juice but yrs from now if it becomes legal and the side effects are reduced I can see myself using it.

  56. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Last night on WEEI (about 9:00), when they did their “sportsflash” – their quick news at the top of the hour – one of the flashes was “Yankees looking for a way to void Arod’s contract.” It made me wonder whether something was definitely going on, despite the Yankees saying they would wait until MLB had done its investigation. Though if MLB’s investigation proves that it was all a paper tiger, the Yankees have nothing to void.

    I’m really torn on “if Arod was playing well they wouldn’t care” as opposed to “they’ve had enough, and under the current atmosphere regarding PEDs, the Yankees don’t want any more problems.” I’d like to believe it’s the latter. I truly don’t know. Seeing them stay way from Melky makes me think they don’t want any association with players who have been exposed as PEDs users. (Arod is with them and under contract. I mean players from other teams.)

    I was definitely against Arod coming back. But when the die was cast, of course I supported him as a Yankee. But truthfully, I think he has been more trouble than he’s worth, some of it of his own making, some of it not. I want to see him disappear – but there’s part of me that thinks he really has more to contribute, and that he will. That may well be wishful thinking on my part.

    Looks, this might be a temptest in a teapot. Then again, it may not be. For maybe the first time in my life, I’d like to know the answers quickly. This I don’t see as a fun “wait and watch.”

    :(

  57. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    YT,

    Doctors have no problems testifying someone is disabled. It is not their fight. They just give opinions leaving it to the parties to fight. The question is, in reality, is he disabled by not having the physical abilities to play at a professional level?

    Again, that question cannot be answered until he has completed his rehab, films are taken of his hip and orthopedic testing is performed. There are movements that a hip must be able to perform. If his are too limited, he is likely disabled.

  58. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Seeing them stay way from Melky makes me think they don’t want any association with players who have been exposed as PEDs users.
    ///

    trisha, you mean like Andy Pettitte?

  59. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    Trisha,

    I am confident the Yankees are looking hard at ways to get out of the contract, but, of course, it may well be very premature to act.

    I read yesterday, somewhere, if they can prove, PED use caused his hip problems, aggravated his hip problems, changed the way he would have been treated or something along those lines, they may be able to void the contract.

    AROd’s dopctor said otherwise much to the Yankees irritaiton. However, I also read another well respected othopedist suggested otherwise. That may be the fight if they try the void route.

    It may be more likely, if the medical evidence supports it, to go the diasbilty insurance path.

  60. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    The double standard here with Lewis and Arod is amazing though…

    It’s being discussed and almost assumed that Arod will never wear the pinstripes again and in Lewis’ case it’s being questioned if this might be a distraction for the Ravens lol… talk about two sides of the coin!!

  61. jacksquat January 30th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Pettitte Arod Melky

    Pettitte used HGH one time years ago to recover from an injury. There is no proof of anything otherwise. He was not punished.

    Melky was just busted last year.

    Arod we know the story.

    Apples and Elephants.

  62. Yankee Trader January 30th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    I found an interesting article about avascular necrosis of the femoral head, a condition that ARod might well face for osteonecrosis.

    Some blurbs:Imaging in Avascular Necrosis of the Femoral Head
    Author: Michael R Aiello, MD; Chief Editor: Felix S Chew, MD, MBA, EdM more…
    Updated: May 25, 2011

    The femoral head is the most vulnerable site for the development of avascular necrosis (AVN). The site of necrosis is usually immediately below the weightbearing articular surface of the bone (ie, the anterolateral aspect of the femoral head). This is the site of greatest mechanical stress.

    The incidence of avascular necrosis (AVN) is increasing. The causes include greater use of exogenous steroids and an increase in trauma.[1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16] In 54-80% of renal transplant recipients in whom AVN is detected with plain radiographs, the disease is bilateral.

    It is estimated that almost 10% of the nearly 500,000 THRs performed each year in the United States are intended to treat AVN; at a cost of more than $1 billion, THRs performed to treat avascular necrosis (AVN) of the femoral head constitute approximately 25% of the total national costs for THR. Trauma is the most common cause of avascular necrosis; however, nontraumatic avascular necrosis (AVN) is commonly bilateral and occurs in younger persons. In addition, nontraumatic bilateral AVN usually occurs at different times and progresses at different rates in different hips.

    Hopefully I am able to attach the entire article, without you having to log in to medscape:

    http://emedicine.medscape.com/.....8-overview

  63. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    The criteria for A-rod to have to collect insurance, which is to be on the DL for the entire year, is far too strict where anyone *right now* can suggest it is a viable plan for the Yankees to simply not play him. When A-rod is done rehabbing this surgery, and is clearly ready to go play minor league games and whatever, the team will have no recourse but to let him play.

  64. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    I still can’t believe Andy blamed his dad and his usage is rarely, if ever, brought up. That story was the biggest load of crap I’ve ever heard lol.. And I still love Andy. It’s just absurd.

  65. jacksquat January 30th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    * Pettitte Arod Melky

  66. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    I can’t get into their heads J Al, but it may be that they believed Andy when he said he used HGH to heal and get back out onto the field more quickly. It may be that over the years the kind of Yankee he was resonanted strongly with them, what he had done for the team and for the organization. I don’t think they felt the same kind of allegiance with Melky or saw him as the same kind of Yankee, and I don’t think they see Manny as someone who would be a credit to the team. Until they end up picking up some player who has been exposed as a user, I tend to believe that they want to stay away from it.

  67. jacksquat January 30th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Grrr

    Pettitte [does not equal] Arod [does not equal] Melky

  68. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Mike Napoli has the damn disease and he is still going to play baseball.

  69. comet January 30th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Lewis has a conviction for manslaufgter does he not?

  70. Mike Ri January 30th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Pettitte used HGH one time years ago to recover from an injury. There is no proof of anything otherwise. He was not punished.

    —-
    Is HGH not a PED ??
    Do we have proof he only used it 1 time ???
    so its ok to use HGH only in the case of injury ?

    love Pettite but !!!!!!!!!! he did use.

  71. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    I love Andy Pettitte, but how do we know that Andy used HGH only once to recover from an injury?

  72. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Andy’s story was actually the most ridiculous and never (as far as I know) investigated. People can feel free to believe the guy that was buddy buddy with Clemens (and changed his story to protect his friend, btw) only used HGH once and got it from his father. I, personally, think that is a crock. And I dunno why I’d believe him any more than I’d believe guys like Ortiz, Arod, Braun, Melky etc.

  73. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    If it were truly about belief and morality… but what is insider baseball morality? Methinks it is only about getting caught or not getting caught. People play the morality card when it fits in with their own agendas.

  74. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Who cares how and what he used? Recovering from an injury is still gaining an unnatural advantage over players who won’t use it.

    According to the miami dudes, A-rod started using HGH in 09, a time when he had surgery & 2 bad hips. Maybe he felt he needed it to stay on the field?

  75. jacksquat January 30th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    We don’t have any proof that Pettitte used more than once. On top of that it was years ago now.

    Where did I say or imply it was ok? I did not.

    However, it does not compare to a guy actually busted, last year (Melky), and obviously not to Arod.

  76. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    I can’t get into their heads J Al, but it may be that they believed Andy when he said he used HGH to heal and get back out onto the field more quickly. It may be that over the years the kind of Yankee he was resonanted strongly with them, what he had done for the team and for the organization.
    ///

    Well, you said sign a player they know used, and they did exactly this when they re-signed Pettitte.

    HGH use is the current issue.

  77. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 9:30 am
    I’ll never forget when he made his way in the Boss’ house when he was sick beyond belief and decided to write a story about how much in poor shape he was.
    ///

    Odds, did he break in, like Selena Roberts did on ARod’s property??

    These writers remind me of fundamentalists who lack all humanity and just bang their “wages of sin/eternal damnation” drum. I have noted the Ray Lewis comps here; indeed, the NFL and its fans scarcely notice these transgressions.

    —————————

    He didn’t break in but he did weasel his way in the house.

    They stand on their high horse now but believe me yrs from now when they need a boost or help the first place they are going is to a doctor that will give them what they need.

  78. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    We don’t know any of it. All we know is that Andy admitted and what he said. I think what happens after that is people factor in what they know (or think they know) about a player and make their own decisions. What else is there to do?

  79. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    comet January 30th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Lewis has a conviction for manslaufgter does he not?

    ————

    No he turned witness for the prosecution and avoided charges, I think.

  80. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Who cares how and what he used? Recovering from an injury is still gaining an unnatural advantage over players who won’t use it.
    ///

    If any exist – yes.

  81. 86w183 January 30th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Mike Napoli has the damn disease and he is still going to play baseball.

    *********************************************************************

    There are degrees and levels of all injuries, ailments and diseases. Astonishing that I would have to point that out.

  82. RadioKev January 30th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Mostly as a Yankee fan, I’m just disappointed in A-Rod. The guy had his second chance, and he didn’t make good on it. Performance issues aside.

  83. 86w183 January 30th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Ray Lewis did plead guilty to obstruction of justice.

    He got off very lightly. Should have at least been hit with accessory after the fact.

  84. randy l. January 30th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    “you mean like Andy Pettitte?”

    j.a.pru-

    this is what i mean when i’m talking about the yankees’ moral ambiguity as an organization.

    who the are the yankees to judge anyone?

    seriously.

    are they the good guys wearing the white hat?

    i get it that most fans get into baseball as maybe an escape and for entertainment purposes and that all this ethical stuff is probably above their interest level and maybe even their intellectual level, but how can anyone think the yankees themselves didn’t help create the PEDS era?

    their position is they seem to like the stats of PEDS users as long as they don’t get caught.

  85. blake January 30th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    “Doctors have no problems testifying someone is disabled. It is not their fight. ”

    correct….it’s not really the same as for example trying to get a procedure approved.

  86. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    “Well, you said sign a player they know used, and they did exactly this when they re-signed Pettitte.”

    Yes they did. I had forgotten about Andy. So I gave you some reasons why they might have made an exception in his case. Andy admitted to using in the past – I forget what year. Andy went through many drug tests since then, and I would think, showed to be clean. So maybe they didn’t think of it as a mark against the organization to bring him back. But players exposed now, in the current atmosphere, I would think are much more problematic to the Yankees.

    That is my thinking.

  87. blake January 30th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Mike Axisa ?@mikeaxisa
    RT @djhoch If A-Rod gets suspended, the Yanks should donate the money saved to a campaign to raise awareness into how contracts & CBAs work.

  88. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    There are degrees and levels of all injuries, ailments and diseases. Astonishing that I would have to point that out.

    Ok so the Yankees won’t be having fraud if A-rod contracts the disease Napoli has, and has it ravage his body in a much shorter time span than Mike Napoli (who had it all last year).

    It still makes these scenarios where the Yankees 60 Day DL for 5 years unlikely, and thus akin to suggesting the Yankees commit Insurance Fraud. (not to mention the idiot way a lot of these writers worded their suggestions).

    With his bad hips, A-rod OPS’d league average. The Yankees won’t be able to claim he is unable to play baseball just because he is a league average bat now.

  89. jacksquat January 30th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Public perception of Andy vs Arod/Melky is very different, for good reasons, and if anyone thinks the Yankees did not consider that, I have some stuff I’d like to sell you at ten times its value.

  90. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    We have issues of morality and stupidity. It would be difficult for a professional athlete not to take something that will make him recover better and more quickly from an injury. These guys are the most ambitious and competitive people around. I’m not sure it is immoral.

    Stupid, yes, for one who has already been exposed, to put his lifelong reputation on the line for using again. Would AROD not have known this place had a shady reputation?

    We must let it all play out. I generally am very strong in not assuming guilt. I must admit these records look bad, and Alex’ reputation and prior lies about PEDs make his denial ring very hollow.

  91. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 10:39 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    We don’t know any of it. All we know is that Andy admitted and what he said. I think what happens after that is people factor in what they know (or think they know) about a player and make their own decisions. What else is there to do?
    ///

    What I think I know is that there is a disproportionate focus on Alex Rodriguez and his PED transgressions, despite MLB insiders having reportedly described PED use in the game overall as “a real problem”.

    To me, THAT is the real “moral” issue: the tacit approval inside the game, vs. the witch hunt we’re seeing here and the outward show of indignation.

    I think it’s altogether telling, that the game’s new Dimaggio – Derek Jeter – was tight with/supportive of Jason Giambi throughout his ordeal.

    Connect the dots, folks.

  92. Bronx Jeers January 30th, 2013 at 10:41 am

    “Find way to void ARod’s contract!” has probably been at the top of Randy Levine’s daily to-do list for the last 4 years. Lots of players have been suspended for violating the PED rules. No one has had their contract ripped up and ARod won’t be the first.

    Th real question the Yankee hierarchy needs answered is how much damage does 5 more seasons of Arod inflict on the Yankee brand. The Dodgers just sold for 2.15 billion. How much are the Yankees worth and can ARod’s continued presence possibly chip away at that number?

  93. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    J Al – do you mind saying who you were before? I had no idea you were around for the 2009 brouhaha! I have to hand it to nick. He seems to be able to tell when someone comes around with a new handle. He’s a bright guy anyway, so I’m not surprised. Unless it’s someone busting my chops in a familiar way, I don’t tend to pick up on those things.

    :)

  94. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    MO or The Goose, each on his Best day, I go with The Goose. Teams were actually having to push guys outta the dugout to face The Goose. He was intimidating, dominating, and effective for a lot of pitches\innings if need be, and did it all in the middle of the Bronx Zoo. He also had the stones to refer to The Boss, as The Fat Man.

  95. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    If AROD gets suspended, Hal will increase his profit by about $8M. I don’t see a 50 game suspension changing anything other than, perhaps, adding someone for the rest of the year at the TD.

  96. randy l. January 30th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    “If it were truly about belief and morality… but what is insider baseball morality? Methinks it is only about getting caught or not getting caught. People play the morality card when it fits in with their own agendas.”

    yankeefeminista-

    precisely what i’ve been trying to say.

    what indeed is baseball insider morality?

    i have very little respect for the present yankees as an organization as far as belief and morality go.
    i see it in players like jeter and mo, but as an organization it’s becoming like rooting for bank of america.

  97. Yankee Trader January 30th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Have to go.

    Unless ARod develops some complication during rehab, according to Dr Bryan Kelly, he will be able to resume full activity in 4-6 months.

    Here’s his website: You can watch the interactive video on Femero Acetabular Impingement, the procedure that Alex had. The one concern I have is that he also resurfaced the femoral head, reshaping it. Will that promote an increase in blood supply or hasten the developement of AVN?

    http://bryankellymd.com/index.html

  98. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Randy,

    It is like rooting for Bank of America with declining service and increasing fees.

  99. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    How much are the Yankees worth and can ARod’s continued presence possibly chip away at that number?

    —————————-

    The value of the Yankees as an organization has nothing to do with Arod and will not be effected by him.

    In a PR centric world, as long as they’re talking about you… that’s all that matters.

  100. randy l. January 30th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    “I think it’s altogether telling, that the game’s new Dimaggio – Derek Jeter – was tight with/supportive of Jason Giambi throughout his ordeal.

    Connect the dots, folks.”

    what’s your point about jeter and giambi?

    what dot are you connecting to what other dot?

  101. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    “To me, THAT is the real “moral” issue: the tacit approval inside the game, vs. the witch hunt we’re seeing here and the outward show of indignation.”

    Yeah, well I can’t say you’re wrong there. There’s no question in my mind that Selig has been as big a part of the problem as the players using.

    It’s all one big mess.

  102. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    You guys talk about “these records” like they are the 10 Commandments. This dr\guy issa Quackenbush from the word go, and anything he writes, or says, has next to Zero credibility. I’m waiting for someone to say they actually saw A-Rod in this Quackenbush’s office, or in his company anywhere at anytime in general. A-Rod ain’t stupid. He was probably sending that drug mule relative of his to Quackenbush’s office to get the PED’s, which accounts for his mules name being included in the DR’s records.

  103. umbrelladoc January 30th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    “Gossage’s ERA (2.09) as a reliever during his prime (1975 to 1985) was better than Rivera’s career ERA (2.21), while pitching in longer outings and coming in with men on base. Looking at numbers this way, it really looks like Gossage was Rivera’s equal.”

    Good article. However, this is a bad use of stats. Coming in with men on base, or allowing inherited runners to score does not affect your ERA. It takes more clean outings to lower an ERA with a single-inning reliever as well.

  104. pat January 30th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Rosenthal rewrote his column and Rovell has moderated his stand so the insurance fraud duo has their adrenaline better under control this morning.

  105. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    He didn’t break in but he did weasel his way in the house.

    They stand on their high horse now but believe me yrs from now when they need a boost or help the first place they are going is to a doctor that will give them what they need.
    ///

    Odds, if the game was really intent on cleaning up, it would get with the PA and let the players know it means business; that there are going to be lifetime bans, that sort of thing.

    This one foot in, one out is a bunch of BS. Of course guys continue to use, relying on new technology to better mask use.

    I could not believe some in here this offseason, predicting that “no one will sign” Melky Cabrera. How naive are these people?

  106. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    It’s true, JAP. Outwardly, all we keep hearing is that players are tired of this and they would support testing and yada yada yada.. but it’s lip service. If that were truly the case, the union wouldn’t fight so hard to protect guys that are using!

    Like I said, I love Andy, but cheating and lying are cheating and lying no matter how you slice it. They’ve paid Andy a ton of money since his admission (which, again, was never investigated as far as I know. He said he got it from his daddy and no one followed up..?). The difference? Andy can still be really useful.. especially if he keeps okaying these one year deals..

  107. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    pat January 30th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Rosenthal rewrote his column and Rovell has moderated his stand so the insurance fraud duo has their adrenaline better under control this morning.

    ———————

    The one great thing about Twitter is how it allows not only fans but other writers to call out their peers immediately. It’s been amazing to watch this morning. The factions of writers at odds with one another is fascinating.

  108. Bronx Jeers January 30th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    The value of the Yankees as an organization has nothing to do with Arod and will not be effected by him.

    ———————-

    Then I would not expect the Yankees to bite the $100MM bullet.

  109. 86w183 January 30th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Unless ARod develops some complication during rehab, according to Dr Bryan Kelly, he will be able to resume full activity in 4-6 months.

    **************************************************************************

    The key is the potential for complications. It is substantial.

    The Yankees cannot simply declare Alex disabled for life and pick up a check. There are very clear procedures for going through that process in all of those contracts.

    They’ll get one year’s worth of insurance if he is unable to return this season. That seems fairly plausible. The other years will require “complications”.

  110. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    I wonder if Mo was prescribed any HGH while recovering. It’s weird how it would be okay to get the script and take it, but it’d still be illegal under baseball rules, right? Or am I not understanding the rules correctly?

  111. randy l. January 30th, 2013 at 10:58 am

    austinmac-

    or when bank of america handle their bill pay checks in two separate ways using an algorithm to determine if they take it out of your account the day you use bill pay or they take it out of your account after the recipient of the check cashes i maybe weeks later.

    what’s really funny is my branch manager had no idea all bill pay checks weren’t taken out of your account balance the day you initiate a bill to be paid.

    companies like b of a are so complex even their own employees don’t understand them.
    right hands don’t know what left hands are doing.

  112. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 10:58 am

    trisha – true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    “To me, THAT is the real “moral” issue: the tacit approval inside the game, vs. the witch hunt we’re seeing here and the outward show of indignation.”

    Yeah, well I can’t say you’re wrong there. There’s no question in my mind that Selig has been as big a part of the problem as the players using.

    It’s all one big mess.
    ///

    So, given the reported institutionalized nature of this PED use that has been referenced again and again by those in the game of baseball, and the outward show of false indignation by the game of baseball, where does real culpability lie? With the occasional rat that gets cornered and is made an “example” of? This is supposed to be a deterrent?

    MLB isn’t fooling anyone. They’re just providing a pulpit for those who use their HOF vote like a club.

  113. blake January 30th, 2013 at 10:58 am

    “Rosenthal rewrote his column and Rovell has moderated his stand so the insurance fraud duo has their adrenaline better under control this morning.”

    it’s not insurance fraud if he really can’t play….and at this point I don’t think that’s THAT big of a stretch to say. If you watched the 2012 playoffs anyway……

  114. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    I wonder if Mo was prescribed any HGH while recovering. It’s weird how it would be okay to get the script and take it, but it’d still be illegal under baseball rules, right? Or am I not understanding the rules correctly?

    Right, there are completely legal OTC things that are banned by baseball.

  115. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    My understanding is that if things are under a doctor’s prescription for a condition related to the use of the medication, it’s okay. Maybe my understanding is a misunderstanding.

  116. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    it’s not insurance fraud if he really can’t play….and at this point I don’t think that’s THAT big of a stretch to say. If you watched the 2012 playoffs anyway……

    Come on, Blake, you know that Not being able to play != playing poorly

  117. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    My understanding is that if things are under a doctor’s prescription for a condition related to the use of the medication, it’s okay. Maybe my understanding is a misunderstanding.

    You can get a waiver for things, which is how a bunch of players suddenly have AHDH, but simply getting a doctor to prescribe it does not save you from MLB PED policy. You need the scrip and the doctor’s note AND MLB has to approve it.

  118. blake January 30th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    “Come on, Blake, you know that Not being able to play != playing poorly”

    I’m not saying that….all I’m saying is that it’s not really outside the realm of possibility that a doctor could give an honest opinion recommending that he not play anymore. Willie Mays could technically play baseball right now if he wanted to…..that doesn’t mean he should or that he could play to a capacity that would fullfill an contract.

  119. 86w183 January 30th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    If a drug is on the banned list you have to get a waiver from MLB to use it regardless of a Doctor’s prescription.

    So far the only waivers I am aware of have been for Ritalin and/or other ADD type medications.

  120. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    randy l. January 30th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    “I think it’s altogether telling, that the game’s new Dimaggio – Derek Jeter – was tight with/supportive of Jason Giambi throughout his ordeal.

    Connect the dots, folks.”

    what’s your point about jeter and giambi?

    what dot are you connecting to what other dot?
    ///

    That Jeter’s reaction to PED use in the game does not come near someone like Ian O’Connors’, and that Jeter is about as pristine a model for a baseball player as we’re ever going to get; genuinely so.

    Jeter’s response was on par with compassion, not judgment. You think Jeter knows a thing or two about what goes around? Of course he does. He knows Giambi isn’t operating outside the unofficial “moral compass”.

  121. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Posada also said that Alex Rodriguez “Will be my friend forever.”

    Not quite to clubhouse pariah the media – or the Yankees – seem to want to portray.

  122. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    My understanding is that if things are under a doctor’s prescription for a condition related to the use of the medication, it’s okay. Maybe my understanding is a misunderstanding.

    You can get a waiver for things, which is how a bunch of players suddenly have AHDH, but simply getting a doctor to prescribe it does not save you from MLB PED policy. You need the scrip and the doctor’s note AND MLB has to approve it.

    ————

    This stuff is cray.

    I’m assuming they decide they have ADHD to get their hands on amphetamines? (Did you mean ADHD btw? Figured it was a typo.)

  123. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    J Al – I’ve detested both MLB and the Player’s Union after the embarassment they provided to the game when they (Selig and Fehr) testified in front of Congress. And when they added to it by missing a deadline to provide a report on how they were going to clean up the game, well that sealed the deal. Scum floats to the top. Selig and Fehr were tied for first in my book.

    Steroids, MLB still sitting on its ass about more instant replay, what a bloody mess. And there’s no sheriff that’s going to come into Dodge, guns a-blazin’, because Selig’s been named sheriff of Dodge by the owners for another go-round.

    What a bloody awful mess, and what a disgrace.

  124. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    It’s true, JAP. Outwardly, all we keep hearing is that players are tired of this and they would support testing and yada yada yada.. but it’s lip service. If that were truly the case, the union wouldn’t fight so hard to protect guys that are using!

    Like I said, I love Andy, but cheating and lying are cheating and lying no matter how you slice it. They’ve paid Andy a ton of money since his admission (which, again, was never investigated as far as I know. He said he got it from his daddy and no one followed up..?). The difference? Andy can still be really useful.. especially if he keeps okaying these one year deals..
    ///

    Agree. And just FTR, I have never been “disappointed” in Pettitte for using HGH.

    Interestingly, both Pettitte and Alex have been there for our young players. Andy, though, seems to be the one who gets credit for this; Alex gets none.

  125. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 10:52 am
    He didn’t break in but he did weasel his way in the house.

    They stand on their high horse now but believe me yrs from now when they need a boost or help the first place they are going is to a doctor that will give them what they need.
    ///

    Odds, if the game was really intent on cleaning up, it would get with the PA and let the players know it means business; that there are going to be lifetime bans, that sort of thing.

    This one foot in, one out is a bunch of BS. Of course guys continue to use, relying on new technology to better mask use.

    I could not believe some in here this offseason, predicting that “no one will sign” Melky Cabrera. How naive are these people?

    —————————

    Do you remember the first penalties for using PEDs. I think it was five or ten games for the first offense. LOL they have definitely moved slow on the steroid issue.

  126. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:03 am
    randy l. January 30th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    “I think it’s altogether telling, that the game’s new Dimaggio – Derek Jeter – was tight with/supportive of Jason Giambi throughout his ordeal.

    Connect the dots, folks.”

    what’s your point about jeter and giambi?

    what dot are you connecting to what other dot?
    ///

    That Jeter’s reaction to PED use in the game does not come near someone like Ian O’Connors’, and that Jeter is about as pristine a model for a baseball player as we’re ever going to get; genuinely so.

    Jeter’s response was on par with compassion, not judgment. You think Jeter knows a thing or two about what goes around? Of course he does. He knows Giambi isn’t operating outside the unofficial “moral compass”.

    —————-

    Jeter also supported Bonds during the steroid issue. He was completely outward with it but he did show some support. I think it happened on Letterman yrs ago.

  127. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    trisha,

    I agree.

    It’s like Norman Bates, awakening from a murderous rage, finding the carnage and crying: “Mother! What have you done???!!!” The difference is, Bates had an excuse; he was mad as the wind.

  128. pat January 30th, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Players have gotten therapeautic use exemptions for testosterone and insulin producing meds for medical reasons.

  129. bruceb January 30th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    It also occurs to me that the kind of fan who has breathed hellfire about Rodriguez through the years also happens to be the kind of Yankee fan on this board that I don’t like.

    I understand that sentiment but I just can’t agree with it. You desperately want to support your heroes through thick and thin but I’m afraid Alex is a serial liar – and not a very nice one at that. He even left his wife and kids because he wanted to date celebrities and lead the Hollywood lifestyle.

    I know I sound like someone who is holier than thou – and that everything would be swept under the rug if A-Rod was hitting .300 and 50 homers a year – but how can any self-respecting human being admire or root for a person like him?

  130. Locke January 30th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Mariano Rivera Trivia Question:

    Rivera has exactly one RBI in his professional career. Between the eighth and ninth inning of a game against the Mets he walked with the bases loaded. What year did this take place, and what other significant milestone did Rivera reach on that same day?

  131. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Jeter also supported Bonds during the steroid issue. He was completely outward with it but he did show some support. I think it happened on Letterman yrs ago.
    ///

    Odds, I did not know that, but it does not surprise me. People say Jete isn’t “vocal” enough, etc. But I think he has a really strong “BS” radar. You’ll not get sentimentalism from him, nor self aggrandizement, nor will he make excuses for anyone.

  132. trisha - true pinstriped blue January 30th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    J Al -

    :lol:

    But perfect analogy, beginning to end.

    :(

    It makes me feel sad, and it makes me feel angry, but most of all it makes me feel helpless because those at the top are the ones allowing it to continue to exist.

    A ban from the game after the first proven offense would say “We’re serious about this.”

    It’s all BS being spun every which way but loose.

    I hope karma gets Selig sooner rather than later. I’d like to see his weasly scrawny little ass thown into jail for something. Hopefully he gets caught for income tax evasion going back 20 years or something.

  133. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    I’m assuming they decide they have ADHD to get their hands on amphetamines? (Did you mean ADHD btw? Figured it was a typo.)

    Yes and Yes, thats just my dyslexia coming to the forefront here. Maybe I can get some pills for that.

    Seeing as how ritalin and whatever are essentially amphetamine light, and being able to have sharper & stronger focus is probably more helpful than an extra 10 lbs of muscle in baseball, its a big deal.

    The baseball population has ADHD at a higher rate than the general population just going by the waivers. Which doesn’t necessarily mean anything, but you know some guys don’t really have it.

  134. PacoDooley January 30th, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Sadly, this whole affair with A-Rod is starting to erode my opinion that there is no way that Jeter would ever do PEDs. I doubt he would, but I have a secret fear that his great performance last year could have had some help, especially given his bitterness left from the last contract negotiation (like a bit of a ‘I’ll show them’ thing).

    Again, I doubt it is true, and if it were, it would be the biggest hit that the game has ever taken (and would really alienate Yankees fans). But the A-Rod and Armstrong situations are destroying my belief in the honest athlete.

  135. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Randy, completely agree. Who the hell is anyone to judge? We do not have enough information about the inside culture. As for the Yankees, I am sure it is all about the contract, PR and the brand. There is no moral compass.

    Why is baseball held to a higher standard than football? Is it the sanctity of the record books, but when did the records start to become tainted? What does that even mean? Who is or isn’t disrespecting the game? Which “game?”

    And are some outraged because we equate baseball with our innocence and this loss of innocence that we just can’t accept? Especially when it sounds from inside accounts like PEDs are pervasive in baseball. I for one just don’t have enough information to act as a judge and jury of what baseball players choose to do. I just feel sad regarding the human element in all this. Do most ballplayers feel forced into this kind of risk/potential sullying of their names? Or is using PEDs just accepted culture that ballplayers wouldn’t think to play without/couldn’t compete/recover without them? We just don’t know.

    And these writer commentaries excoriating ballplayers who “use,” and in particular their favorite whipping boy, remind me again not only how stinkingly didactic these writers are, but also how purple their prose is. These dudes who criticize ball players who excel at something, cannot even write a decent sentence in their own sport of choice. I would prefer they go back to writing their simplistic sentences and stick to the facts. Or better yet, go spend some time uncovering facts. Your readers would prefer the “truth” to some half-baked moralizing on your part, Mr. Sportswriter.

    Shame, who called out whom, writer-wise? I would love to see some accountability. Too many of these guys are on soap boxes; add to that that they are just bad writers. Unreadable.

  136. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    he wasn’t not he was sorry

  137. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    I understand that sentiment but I just can’t agree with it. You desperately want to support your heroes through thick and thin but I’m afraid Alex is a serial liar – and not a very nice one at that. He even left his wife and kids because he wanted to date celebrities and lead the Hollywood lifestyle.

    ///

    How much money has he given to Boys & Girls Club? How much time does he spend with young players, encouraging them, helping them?

    I bet there isn’t one other player who knows as much about our minor leagues as Alex. So, you can focus on things like his infidelity, which seems to be rampant among athletes and entertainment industry folk (I don’t care for that sort of thing, either, but Alex is hardly alone; didn’t Pettitte have a NYC mistress? Didn’t Brian Cashman date an extortionist whose own daughter has a restraining order out against her? And didn’t his wife kick him out of the house and file for divorce?).

  138. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:18 am
    Jeter also supported Bonds during the steroid issue. He was completely outward with it but he did show some support. I think it happened on Letterman yrs ago.
    ///

    Odds, I did not know that, but it does not surprise me. People say Jete isn’t “vocal” enough, etc. But I think he has a really strong “BS” radar. You’ll not get sentimentalism from him, nor self aggrandizement, nor will he make excuses for anyone.

    ————————-
    I remember he did because Mike and Mad Dog were a little disappointed that he didn’t hammer Bonds.

    When it comes to certain ppl Jeter will stand up and support them and what he says carries weight

  139. mick January 30th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    People don’t like Alex and most of them are Yankee fans.
    No need to be apologetic about it…

  140. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    PacoDooley January 30th, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Sadly, this whole affair with A-Rod is starting to erode my opinion that there is no way that Jeter would ever do PEDs. I doubt he would, but I have a secret fear that his great performance last year could have had some help, especially given his bitterness left from the last contract negotiation (like a bit of a ‘I’ll show them’ thing).
    ///

    Doubt it. For one thing, his parents are drug counselors, and he runs that Turn Two foundation. I can’t know, but I feel like I do know. Jeter’s clean, IMO.

  141. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Yankeefem – Good post.

  142. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 11:30 am

    Thirteen days until spring training. Has it ever been more welcome than this year?

    The AROD and steroid discussion seems to have run its course. We don’t know enough to know what could or will happen. Nor do we know what players used or who didn’t.

    I would have liked the Yankees to have a farm system ranked higher than 14th when the team’s entire future seems dependent upon prospect performance in the coming years.

    We all talk as if our young prospects are merely awaitng more time until they appear and produce. None have succeeded in AA. That is the huge test and huge jump. Next year’s ranking can go up or down depending upon success at higher levels.

  143. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    The larger question surrounding all this is, if true, how was A-Rod passing the random drug tests, yet Melky did Not?. Did MLB step-up their testing somehow, which caught Melky?

  144. PacoDooley January 30th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:27 am
    PacoDooley January 30th, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Sadly, this whole affair with A-Rod is starting to erode my opinion that there is no way that Jeter would ever do PEDs. I doubt he would, but I have a secret fear that his great performance last year could have had some help, especially given his bitterness left from the last contract negotiation (like a bit of a ‘I’ll show them’ thing).
    ///

    Doubt it. For one thing, his parents are drug counselors, and he runs that Turn Two foundation. I can’t know, but I feel like I do know. Jeter’s clean, IMO.

    ————————–

    Good points, and I agree totally. I am just sad that this whole affair makes me have any doubt. It would be really devastating if it were true (again, almost certainly not).

    The guys that have been caught have largely been pariahs even before the PEDs situation (Bonds, Clemens, Manny, A-Rod), so that lessened the impact on the sport I suppose. I suppose we should at least commend someone like McGuire for avoiding that fate…

  145. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:33 am

    I hope karma gets Selig sooner rather than later. I’d like to see his weasly scrawny little ass thown into jail for something. Hopefully he gets caught for income tax evasion going back 20 years or something.
    ///

    trisha, LOL.

    It’s a shame there’s no balance from our media.

  146. Jerkface January 30th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    The larger question surrounding all this is, if true, how was A-Rod passing the random drug tests, yet Melky did Not?. Did MLB step-up their testing somehow, which caught Melky?

    Because the players are ahead of the testing, but that does not preclude someone slipping up. You mistime a masking agent, cycle a day late, etc. Human error.

  147. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    austinmac, I wouldn’t be too concerned about the ranking of our farm system. If we are talking about mlb ready players, then I would like that we had more available us from the farm. However, if our AA and below players led by Heathcott, Austin, Mason, Sanchez and DePaula continue to excel at the next level, I believe our farm will be very highly ranked come next year’s rankings. I’d bet we slice that number 14 ranking in half. Our farm really is loaded.

  148. PacoDooley January 30th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 11:32 am
    The larger question surrounding all this is, if true, how was A-Rod passing the random drug tests, yet Melky did Not?. Did MLB step-up their testing somehow, which caught Melky?
    ———————–

    Could be a random chance thing or perhaps Melky was messy with his use (i.e., not so careful about timing and using the right approaches to coving it up). Clearly most uses do not result in positive tests, and there are also clearly ways to beat the testing system (just ask Mr “I’ve been tested 500 times” Armstrong).

  149. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    YF,

    I also agree. I am tired or moralizing by the writers and by Selig. What would I have done? I consider myself a moral person, but if I felt I needed to take a product to recover from injury or level the playing field I may have done so as well.

  150. pat January 30th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    A high ranking official with the New York Yankees says reports that the team is considering ways to void the Alex Rodriguez’s contract over new doping allegations are “completely false.”/NY1News

  151. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Fem – Craig Calcaterra called out Rosenthal.

  152. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Paco,

    I’m with Yankeefem that we can’t truly know, and I’m pretty shock-proof as these things go, because I know that alongside our great human potential are human frailties, that we’re a mixed bag, finally. But – I admit I would be stunned if either Jeter or Rivera were ever found to be using.

  153. 86w183 January 30th, 2013 at 11:36 am

    gotta get things done…. have a day all!

  154. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Fem – Craig Calcaterra called out Rosenthal.
    ///

    Ooh, that’s sort of a no-no in the industry. At some point, though, there does need to be a counter-press to keep people honest – unless, we’re it :D.

  155. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    Shame, link?

  156. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    @RealCJ10

    And to think…all this time I’ve been so close to deer antler extract, and never knew! Is this for real? It helps heal a torn tricep? Wow

  157. mick January 30th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    their position is they seem to like the stats of PEDS users as long as they don’t get caught.
    ================================================
    It’s the stats of users like bonds, mcgwire, sosa and palmiero that got them in trouble.
    Most of the users are prolly posting ordinary stats that go unnoticed.
    It’s the exaggerated numbres that give the perception of cheating and even the “unintelligent” fan, as the inteligentia states, knows perception is reality.

  158. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    Have a good day, 86!

  159. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Shame, my American acupuncturist who is a Chinese medicine doctor prescribes deer antler. I think it is a norm in Chinese medicine. What is it supposed to do again?

  160. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Yankeefem, I agree about rankings. They’re fun to read, but don’t really tell the whole story. And it’s fairly arbitrary – these numbers they assign to these kids, some in really nascent levels of development.

    Still can’t see how Feliz was nowhere to be found on Yankee lists.

  161. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    YF,

    Our farm system has some players well regarded, but some of our optimism is chauvenistic. We had no players voted best or even top two or three in their leagues, even lower level leagues. In short, we have no prospect considered a sure thing or a very high impact player possibilty. The best any of them seem to be rated by outsiders(not Pinstriped Plus) is we have players who could develop into MLB regulars but not all stars.

  162. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    @craigcalcaterra

    The only difference between A-Rod and other PED guys: he makes a lot of money and you hate him. That’s not legal grounds to do anything.

    Ken_Rosenthal Ken, shopping for a Dr. to say you have a career-ending injury when you likely don’t is called insurance fraud.

    Ken_Rosenthal But no one was talking about it 24 hours ago. It’s inspired totally by a desire to get out of a contract because of bad PR.

    Ken_Rosenthal Saying “it’s plausible” is the same as saying “hey, he could get away with it … no one would question it …”

    Ken_Rosenthal I guarantee you, insurers are reading your column today and preparing to fight any A-Rod claim of permanent disability.

    ————

    There was a whole exchange between the two this morning on Twitter. I don’t agree with everything Craig says but I do like him.

  163. austinmac January 30th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Deer antlers make you act foolish like a Texas Ranger.

  164. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    fem – I have NO clue lol, but apparently it’s a PED that Lewis used.

  165. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:35 am
    Fem – Craig Calcaterra called out Rosenthal.

    ——————

    What did he say?

  166. pat January 30th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    I don’t think Jeter ever used PEDs but I believe if it ever came out that he did, it would be fun to watch who would make excuses for him doing it.

  167. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Rosenthal, to his credit, revised his column later today.

  168. Yankees88 January 30th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    It doesn’t seem completely fair to include Pettitte in these talks. If we take him at his word, he used HGH, not steroids. He only used it 3 times, and HGH wasn’t even banned in baseball at the time Pettitte took it. He never broke any baseball rules and wouldn’t be subject to any suspension even if baseball had a retroactive punishment system in place.

  169. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    austinmac,

    He’s only in High A, but Feliz has the tools to become a star, IMO.

    If he makes it up here (Trenton) at some point next season, which is possible although he’d have to remain healthy, you can watch him on miLb.com.

  170. DONNYBROOK January 30th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    You guys can look for all the reasons ya want for these guys using, but bottom line, as in life, it ALL comes back to Character.

  171. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:44 am

    :arrow:

    pat – I agree lol, that would be kinda fun to watch as disappointing as it would be.

  172. Against All Odds January 30th, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Thanks Shame

  173. J. Alfred Prufrock January 30th, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Shame, amusing. Thanks for posting that.

  174. yankeefeminista January 30th, 2013 at 11:46 am

    austinmac, those rankings are overrated though. They are just for amusement. I don’t agree that we don’t have potential All-Stars. I think all the ones I have mentioned above are elite prospects. Mason and Heathcott are both coming back from injury. But both have huge upside. DePaula, people have been raving about for years; let’s see what he does once he gets stateside. Ditto Campos and injury; let’s hope his arm stays healthy. And if so, let’s see how he develops. J-Ram hopefully continues to progress. His stuff his electric. Austin has hit the cover off the board. Let’s see what he does once he goes back up to AA. ManBan will be back in the mix at some point. TJS isn’t a death sentence and he is still young. And I still say Betances will be heard from again. But obviously pitchers are more volatile. Plenty of other names but so young; give them a year and we will hear about some of those with huge upside.

  175. blake January 30th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Daniel Barbarisi ?@DanBarbarisi
    As the ever-excellent @bradfo first noted, Yanks in talks with Travis Hafner. Hafner is believed to want more than just a minor league deal.

  176. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Yankees88 January 30th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    It doesn’t seem completely fair to include Pettitte in these talks. If we take him at his word, he used HGH, not steroids. He only used it 3 times, and HGH wasn’t even banned in baseball at the time Pettitte took it. He never broke any baseball rules and wouldn’t be subject to any suspension even if baseball had a retroactive punishment system in place.

    —————-

    If we take him at his word, he broke the law, took an illegal substance, and blamed his dad.

    Andy’s story is actually the worst of all but it gets the least amount of attention.

    Why take any of these guys at their word??

  177. mick January 30th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Arod came over here berating Jeter. That was a no-no.
    Too many fans thought he was a choker for too long for it to be imaginary.
    Just because a few people on a blog like to think they are the voice of reason doesn’t make it so.
    To dismiss the average fan is a mistake, as they are the voice of the people, and they can’t all be wrong, as the snobs intimate.

  178. Shame Spencer January 30th, 2013 at 11:48 am

    Ugh, i posted in the wrong thread.. dang..

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