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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Pinch hitting: Paul Lucie

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 06, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Our next Pinch Hitter grew up in Yorktown Heights, N.Y. – “Just a quick drive to Yankee Stadium,” he wrote — but he has since moved to Arizona. Paul Lucie is a 36-year-old who was at the Stadium for Jim Abbott’s no-hitter and for Game 5 of the 2001 World Series, and he wrote that one of his first baseball memories was seeing Earl Weaver ejected during the first game of a doubleheader, only to be tossed again before the second game even started.

For his post Paul settled on a hypothetical: What would have happened if Chien-Ming Wang had never been injured?

You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.

Sorry folks, don’t know why I am writing John Lennon lyrics. I was never a big fan of him anyway. I would take the Kinks over the Beatles and Stones any day. I wanted to be witty and use the Scooter’s (Phil Rizzuto for you youngsters) call from Meatloaf’s Paradise by the Dashboard Lights, but it didn’t mesh with the play that derailed Chien-Ming Wang’s promising career.

After back-to-back 19-win seasons in 2006-07, Wang became the de facto ace on a Yankees pitching staff that included Mike Mussina and Andy Pettitte. He was a rising star. Only Ron Guidry reached 50 victories in fewer starts as a Yankee (82) than Wang (85). From 2006 through 2008, Wang had the third-highest winning percentage of all starting pitchers over that three-year period (46–15, .754).
But on June 15, 2008, with Wang sporting an 8-2 record, everything changed. In an interleague game against the Houston Astros, he pulled up lame while rounding third base on Jeter’s single.

In medical terms, Wang tore the Lisfranc ligament and peroneus longus muscle in his right foot. In baseball terms, he was out for the season.

Wang’s career has never been the same. Lisfranc injuries are tricky, particularly for pitchers. We all tend to forget that one’s legs and feet are pivotal to becoming a successful pitcher on any level. Wang’s injury wasn’t the typical “swollen ankle.”

I knew something was drastically wrong when I saw Wang get lit up like a Christmas tree against Baltimore and Cleveland in the beginning of the 2009 season. Luckily, for the Yankees and their fans, they managed to win the 2009 World Series with a three-man rotation.

Now granted, we can hypothesize “what if’s” until we are Yankee blue in the face. Sorry for corny play on words. But let’s think about it for a moment.

Do we still get CC, A.J. or even Kuroda? I think we probably do, and we let a guy like Andy retire. Joba is probably never tinkered with and becomes the bullpen stud he was originally intended to be (trampolines excluded).

I bet a healthy Wang and CC beat the Rangers in the 2010 ALCS. For the 2011 and 2012 loses to the Tigers, we would have needed to resurrect The Babe, Joltin Joe, The Iron Horse, Roger Maris and Yogi Berra. Wait, not Yogi, he ain’t dead yet.

Imagine the 2013 starting rotation being CC, Wang (still would have only been 32 with a power sinker), Kuroda, Hughes and Nova/Phelps. I would have slotted A.J. in the fifth spot, but we all know that trade was inevitable. I’m sure he is enjoying his Primanti Brothers.

Let’s go Yankees!

Associated Press photo

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149 Responses to “Pinch hitting: Paul Lucie”

  1. ac1 February 6th, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Now Montero is linked to the bio lab? Whether they took it or not, how can players get themselves linked to these doctors? Shouldn’t it be to a point where even if players want to take an aspirin, they consult with the team or league office to see if it is legal? Why would anyone, innocent or not, go out to these doctors and put their career in their hands?

  2. Stoneburner - The Return of Wax February 6th, 2013 at 9:10 am

    This message is on auto-repeat:

    Stoneburner – The Return of Wax February 6th, 2013 at 8:54 am
    Dang – this is what I meant to say for my final post – you get one mulligan – here it goes:

    The irony of this whole thing is that it all began with speculation – speculation that Montero would be generational – that he was a Mickey Mantle talent – at least from the most ardent Montero supports from this comment section.

    And now here we are again with speculation – but it is direct at PEDS and what impact they have on a player’s performance and speculation that Montero may or may not have taken such susbtances.

    The ultimate irony is that the snobbish/elitists of this blog (who fortunately I will not have deal with anymore b/c my job is done) cannot handle it when speculation is being pointed back at one of their main principles – that Montero is a beast – a generational greatness – or Melky.

    No, the dialogue changes to – you are speculating, it is McCarthysm, you do not know if PEDS actually work (yeah, because all of these professional athletes are stuffing themselves of substances for the fun of it with no intention that it will help their performance and make them millions of dollars – okay).

    Remember, if you dish it (speculate about Montero’s destined greatnees), you then have to be preprared to take it (speculate about PEDS, is Montero on a list, did he take them, did that help him hit his generational HRs in Lakewood in 2008).

    You can either be a good sport about it and take it as you dished it out over the last year and acknowledge it, or you can whine and complain that others are speculating (doing exactly what you did a year ago). Sadly, and this is the reason why I am outta here, I know a majority will chose the latter – – – –

    This is Stoneburner, reporting from Ceti Alpha V in permanent self-exile, with the last wax poetic minute – – – -

  3. Shame Spencer February 6th, 2013 at 9:12 am

    I miss Wang. I really liked him a lot. I was hoping they’d just keep him around to try and rehab him.

  4. ac1 February 6th, 2013 at 9:14 am

    The issue for me at least is not the hysteria of who did what and the ‘McCarthyism’, but why players are seeking outside assistance from labs for any reason, even for innocent reasons. Teams and the league have everything a player should need to recover from injury and if there was any question, go to the league for approval…. Avoid having your name involved in these things at all costs. It’s just silly at this point.

  5. ac1 February 6th, 2013 at 9:15 am

    I miss Wang. I really liked him a lot. I was hoping they’d just keep him around to try and rehab him.
    ___

    Don’t worry. Wang will be one of those pitchers that falls into low risk/high reward in the coming years. I am almost certain we will see him again, even on a minor league deal.

  6. mick February 6th, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Why no resurrection of The Mick?
    That’s quite the oversight.

  7. Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 9:16 am

    guys, gals, cheer up!

    It’s Babe Ruth’s Birthday!

    today should be a national holiday or at least a yankees holiday!

  8. austinmac February 6th, 2013 at 9:19 am

    Paul, you won me over with your Kinks comment. I agree. You are clearly a thoughtful person.

  9. Shame Spencer February 6th, 2013 at 9:20 am

    ac1 February 6th, 2013 at 9:14 am

    The issue for me at least is not the hysteria of who did what and the ‘McCarthyism’, but why players are seeking outside assistance from labs for any reason, even for innocent reasons. Teams and the league have everything a player should need to recover from injury and if there was any question, go to the league for approval…. Avoid having your name involved in these things at all costs. It’s just silly at this point.

    ———————

    This would all be true… but most are seeking the help for a reason. What they’re doing is probably wrong.

  10. austinmac February 6th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    Ys,

    I recently read Lefty Gomez’ biography and one sure comes away with a different opinion of the Babe. He was not presented as a drunken lout, but as a thoughtful, interested in life and kind man.

  11. mick February 6th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    I was a kid. I had parents. I have nieces. I have friends who have kids. I love those kids. Do you seriously think you cannot have empathy unless you experienced something directly?
    ======================================
    Empathy and sympathy are apples and oranges.
    We’ll see how liberal you are if and when you have kids.

  12. Duh Innings II February 6th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    If Chien-Ming Wang had never been injured, the 2008 Yankees most likely would’ve made the postseason at least as the wildcard and still signed Sabathia, Burnett, and Teixiera, and traded for Swisher as I don’t see how Wang being an ace all of 2008 would’ve stopped the Yanks from making all those offseason moves.

    Mussina retired after 2008 and the Yanks lost his 20 wins and low 3 ERA from that retirement, so they had to replace that with someone – enter Sabathia. Pettitte would’ve returned. Chamberlain would’ve still been the fifth starter to begin the 2009 season although maybe the Yanks would’ve kept him in the bullpen if they had Wang all of 2008. Would Ian Kennedy have been given a chance to be the fifth starter in 2009? Who knows?
    Burnett would’ve still been signed along with Sabathia because Pettitte had a bad 2008 (4.54 ERA), possibly his worst season as a Yankee, and who knows what the team would’ve got out of Chamberlain or whoever in the fifth starter slot. Who knows if Pettitte would’ve come back for 2009? The Yanks rotation would’ve still be uncertain after Wang even if he was healthy all year. I guess it’s possible Mussina would’ve come back for 2009 if the 2008 Yanks had made the postseason but somehow I doubt it as if memory serves me he had made his decision to retire after 2008 before the ’08 season. Had Mussina stayed on, I think Sabathia and Burnett would’ve still been signed. If you wanna say Burnett wouldn’t have been signed fair enough and I don’t see Burnett not being signed as costing the 2009 Yanks the World Series if we look at his performance prior to his stellar 2009 World Series Game 2 start.

    The 2009 Yankees rotation would’ve still been Sabathia/Wang/Burnett/Pettitte/most likely Chamberlain to start the season, only Wang would’ve pitched the whole season. The Yanks probably would’ve went with a four-man postseason rotation with Burnett or Wang the Game 4 starter as I couldn’t see Pettitte being that.

    They might’ve taken it Game 7 of the 2010 ALCS, won Game 5 of the ALCS, won at least a game or two in the 2012 ALCS if not won the 2012 ALCS, or done any two of these things, but I doubt any two all three things happen.

    If the question is “What would it have been like if Wang never got injured and pitched like he did 2006-08 from 2009 on?” I guess I’d have to say the Yanks would’ve won at least one World Series after 2009.

    I think the more interesting hypothetical question to ask is this:

    WHAT IF WANG NEVER GOT INJURED AND MIKE MUSSINA DIDN’T RETIRE AFTER 2008 AND RE-SIGNED WITH THE YANKEES THROUGH 2011/12?

    I say “through 2011/12″ because he’d probably have wanted three or four more years to collect the 30 wins he needed to join The 300 Win Club (and be inducted into the Hall Of Fame) to be safe.

    I think the 2009 Yankees rotation under this scenario would’ve been Sabathia/Mussina/Wang/Pettitte/Chamberlain, Kennedy, or Hughes. No need for Burnett for the price he was going for.

  13. Duh Innings II February 6th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Correction:

    If Wang never got injured and Mussina came back for 2009, no Burnett signing.

  14. Shame Spencer February 6th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Repost:

    Shame Spencer Your comment is awaiting moderation. February 6th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    Interesting take:

    @Ken_Rosenthal

    Great take. RT @jonmorosi: Major League Baseball vs. Ryan Braun, Part II. My column at : http://on-msn.com/11T4R4h @MLBONFOX

  15. blake February 6th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    like Wang….but I don’t see his injury as a franchise altering event….he was a pretty good pitcher, a high 3′s ERA and a 1.3 WHIP guy who won 19 games twice primarily because he pitched for really good offenses. I’d like to have the vintage Wang on the staff though sure

  16. Cashmoney February 6th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    I think Wang would have gotten smack around by a good fastball hitting team like Tex or Detriot. but he was definitely a groundball inducing machine and had a more than a respectable era during the roid era. I say he is a good 3 or 2.

  17. Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    so austinmac, paul and i are all in on the lohud yankees kinks-fan alliance!

  18. mick February 6th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    i am for the Kinks.
    saw Ray Davies at the Beacon.

  19. Shame Spencer February 6th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    From Morosi’s article:

    “Most notably, Braun’s camp had different alibis depending on the audience. Before the arbitrator, his attorneys argued that the collector — later revealed as Dino Laurenzi Jr. — did not follow proper protocols regarding the timeliness of the sample’s delivery to FedEx. In public, Braun all but accused Laurenzi of actively tampering with the specimen. If there was evidence Laurenzi acted with malice, why wasn’t it brought forth in the hearing?”

  20. Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    the babe was fond of going up to phonecia and trout fishing in esopus creek, something i’ve been doing all my life.

    the phonecia hotel burned down a couple winters ago with alot of pictures and memorabilia of the babe’s visits.

  21. Cashmoney February 6th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    I like to say FU to Ryan Braun, also I don’t mind if he is on the Yankees.

  22. 86w183 February 6th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Wang was the kind of guy that is really valuable to a good team.

    6-7 innings a start, 2-3 runs. Rarely dominant, rarely bad. Always gives you a chance to win, which is important.

    He gave the Yanks 400 + innings in 2006-07, 38 wins and a 3.67 ERA

    That’s worth about $ 15 M these days

  23. Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    …and apparently the babe could fish with the best of ‘em:

    http://www.fishwithjd.com/2011.....budy-ever/

    (we already knew he could knock down the brewskis with the best of ‘em!)

  24. Stoneburner - The Return of Wax February 6th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    I am sorry, I just could not resist:

    Compare:

    Jerkface February 1st, 2013 at 3:32 pm
    Its also worth pointing out that you need to either fail a test OR be convicted (as in real convicted not baseball convicted) of possession, and that the subsequent clause does not allow Selig to suspend based on probable cause but on just cause.

    With:

    “MLB has suspended players without positive tests, provided there is sufficient evidence to convince an arbitrator.” Ken Rosenthal

    NO WHERE does Kenny say positive drug test OR be convicted in a criminal court of law (i.e.”real convicted”) – he just says sufficient evidence, where if you read the rest of his article, does not excusilvely include a criminal conviction – - – -

    Sorry, but the misreading of the joint drug agreement is a gift that keeps on giving because this along with Montero goes to the core of the arrogance and lack of humility here – I had – I just had to – - – -

    Remember, a majority of commenters here are more in love with their own opinions and how they want the team to be than the Yankees – - – -in essence it is a very 21st century internet notion – the lohud commenter’s expression on line is more important than the actual team – for they have become Narcissus and fallen in love with their own reflection, their own ideas over the Yankees that fans and I root for – - – -

  25. Stoneburner - The Return of Wax February 6th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    errr it was Jon Paul Morosi – not Rosenthal – same idea – same network (Fox) – but different guy – - – -

  26. Bronx Jeers February 6th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    “• In seeking consultants for Braun’s defense, was Bosch really the best option? ”

    ——————–

    If I was Ryan Braun, or Cervelli, or whoever is claiming they saw this guy for some legitimate reason, why would they not make a statement a week ago?

    And as Yankee fans how do we think relative smallfries like Cervelli, Melky and Montero got turned onto this guy? Who’s their “connection” in Miami? Hmmmm…

  27. Cashmoney February 6th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut5uC91FcbI

  28. pat February 6th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    New Times editor interviewed on MLB Network says the latest list of names didn’t come from them as the source and MLB is the only one who has asked them for their records. No government agency has contacted them.

  29. blake February 6th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    so is this now Stoneburner 4 or bonus footage from Stoneburner 3? I’m confused.

  30. Tackelberry February 6th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Cashmoney February 6th, 2013 at 9:41 am
    I think Wang would have gotten smack around by a good fastball hitting team like Tex or Detriot. but he was definitely a groundball inducing machine and had a more than a respectable era during the roid era. I say he is a good 3 or 2.

    ______________________________________________________

    Wang was exposed by the Indians in the 2007 ALDS. They were able to successfully recognize his sinker and lay off it and mke him get the ball up.. Once he did, he got lit up. Other teams surely would have studied the way the Indians went after him and followed suit. Wang needed to come up with another pitch to try and adjust. A couple of scouts said that if Wang had a curveball, he’d be almost unhittable.

  31. Cashmoney February 6th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    pulchritude is closest thing a man comes to divinity.

  32. blake February 6th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    I think it’s plausible for Braun to seek consult with Bosch if his lawyers knew him or whatever…..if you’re trying to beat a PED accusation then it makes sense to ask a PED crook…..however….20-30 thousand bucks for a consult sounds kinda steep….that doesn’t really add up…..

  33. Cashmoney February 6th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    tackle, I agree.

  34. mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Evidently these players were not only associated with this “clinic” but they were delinquent in paying for their services.
    Stupid and irresponsible is not a good combination.
    No wonder the guy turned them in.

  35. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    Does anyone feel something is off with this whole thing?

  36. Cashmoney February 6th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    however….20-30 thousand bucks for a consult sounds kinda steep….that doesn’t really add up…..
    —–
    blake, you think some dude name Dino tampering with Braun’s sample add up?

  37. austinmac February 6th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Mick,

    I saw the Kinks a few times in the early 70s, and I saw Ray Davies a few years ago. No one else has ever sung about the things did. I think I will go have some of that Old Demon Alcohol now.

  38. mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    mac
    whatever happened to music?

  39. austinmac February 6th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    For Braun’s story to have a ring of truth, we need to hear from his lawyers that they contacted Bosch for information about steroids. A client would not make such contact directly, IMO.

    I suppose we are not looking as foolish for not signing Melky now.

  40. Hassey February 6th, 2013 at 10:12 am

    also Bob Wickman’s birthday…I always enjoyed watching him give teammates a high 4 1/2

  41. randy l. February 6th, 2013 at 10:12 am

    dis·crim·i·nat·ing (d-skrm-ntng)
    adj.
    1.
    a. Able to recognize or draw fine distinctions; perceptive.
    b. Showing careful judgment or fine taste: a discriminating collector of rare books; a dish for the discriminating palate.
    2. Separating into distinct parts or components; analytical.
    3. Serving to distinguish; distinctive: a discriminating characteristic.
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/discriminating

    when people on this blog have opinions about something are they doing so with the same facts or the same ability to see the facts ?

    first of all, there’d be no two time 19 game winner with wang had he not been taught a trick pitch.
    the yankees were handed a gift when this happened. they never really knew what to do with his gift.
    the first thing they did was fire the person who taught wang the trick pitch. this is a fact. there is no disputing it.

    so many things were done wrong by yankee management with wang over his career it’s not even worth getting into. everything was just a continuation of not knowing what they had in the first place.

    why weren’t they thankful?
    see above definition of “discriminating”

    the obvious answer is they didn’t have this ability:
    “a. Able to recognize or draw fine distinctions ”

    the problem was this wasn’t an isolated instance.

    when i look at why i dislike yankee management so intensely , it’s because they simply don’t have the ability to make “fine distinctions” when it concerns the game of baseball.

    they do however have a whole lot of money which allows them to make up for their crude ability to see the game of baseball. the problem in the near future is they don’t seem to be planning on using the one thing they have that allows them to compete.

  42. Disco February 6th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    joba was not intended to be a reliever…

  43. austinmac February 6th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    Mick,

    That is a good question. Thank goodness I can bring about a million songs to my brain. Too bad they sound so bad when I sing them.

  44. austinmac February 6th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    Hassey,

    That was very bad. I chuckled but very bad.

  45. blake February 6th, 2013 at 10:16 am

    “blake, you think some dude name Dino tampering with Braun’s sample add up?”

    dont know….

  46. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Disco February 6th, 2013 at 10:14 am
    joba was not intended to be a reliever…

    __________

    QFT

  47. RadioKev February 6th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    blake February 6th, 2013 at 10:00 am
    I think it’s plausible for Braun to seek consult with Bosch if his lawyers knew him or whatever…..if you’re trying to beat a PED accusation then it makes sense to ask a PED crook…..however….20-30 thousand bucks for a consult sounds kinda steep….that doesn’t really add up…..
    ——-

    Uh, yeah. It’s not helpful to go and connect with a seedy organization while you’re trying to defend yourself. MLB already said he beat the suspension on a technicality. The guy is guilty.

    This isn’t a vast conspiracy against individual players. It’s a vast conspiracy on the part of players and a clinic to undermine the sport.

  48. austinmac February 6th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    Ys,

    If you haven’t read the Gomez book, I highly recommend it. Very entertaining. I came away realizing he was a great guy and darn good pitcher.

  49. Bronx Jeers February 6th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    New Times editor interviewed on MLB Network says the latest list of names didn’t come from them as the source and MLB is the only one who has asked them for records.

    ——————

    Somebody’s definitely trying to paint a picture here. They’ll never get enough to discipline these secondary guys but the message is clear.

  50. mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    randy
    isn’t this what yankee haters used to throw at us ?
    we buy pennants.
    you must get a lot of that up by you.

  51. blake February 6th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    hopefully the Brewers will void Braun’s contract so the Yankees can say he costs to much

  52. FiretheUMPIRE February 6th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    So the sacred cows Alex Rodriguez and Jesus Montero are illegitimate?

  53. FiretheUMPIRE February 6th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    Not to mention Franny Cervelli

  54. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    mick February 6th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    I was a kid. I had parents. I have nieces. I have friends who have kids. I love those kids. Do you seriously think you cannot have empathy unless you experienced something directly?
    ======================================
    Empathy and sympathy are apples and oranges.
    We’ll see how liberal you are if and when you have kids.
    ——————

    Just ignore him. He’s determined to press the narrative that taking steroids have as much physical impact as popping tic tacs.

  55. Cashmoney February 6th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Hassey, I bet Wickman has some interesting story to tell… he was a workhorse out of pen for sure.

  56. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Somebody’s definitely trying to paint a picture here.

    ——————-

    But what’s the agenda though…the complete and total destruction of baseball. Would anyone be surprised if the only names that ever see the light of day are the ones in MLB.

    Hopefully our other boys aren’t on the list or that guy is right again.

  57. Hassey February 6th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Braun and Valencia – two nice Jewish boys on the latest list.

    But is it even possible that Braun is the only non-Latino? How was he so lucky to be the only one to find Dr. Strangelove in Miami?

  58. austinmac February 6th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    I never cared when people complained about buying pennants. The team was spending its own money. I vote in favor of buying some more.

  59. FiretheUMPIRE February 6th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    Stoneburner – The Return of Wax February 6th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    “I am sorry, I just could not resist:

    Compare:

    Jerkface February 1st, 2013 at 3:32 pm
    Its also worth pointing out that you need to either fail a test OR be convicted (as in real convicted not baseball convicted) of possession, and that the subsequent clause does not allow Selig to suspend based on probable cause but on just cause.

    With:

    “MLB has suspended players without positive tests, provided there is sufficient evidence to convince an arbitrator.” Ken Rosenthal

    NO WHERE does Kenny say positive drug test OR be convicted in a criminal court of law (i.e.”real convicted”) – he just says sufficient evidence, where if you read the rest of his article, does not excusilvely include a criminal conviction – – – -

    Sorry, but the misreading of the joint drug agreement is a gift that keeps on giving because this along with Montero goes to the core of the arrogance and lack of humility here – I had – I just had to – – – -

    Remember, a majority of commenters here are more in love with their own opinions and how they want the team to be than the Yankees – – – -in essence it is a very 21st century internet notion – the lohud commenter’s expression on line is more important than the actual team – for they have become Narcissus and fallen in love with their own reflection, their own ideas over the Yankees that fans and I root for – – – -”

    You’re gonna make him cry. Let him push for the legalization of harmful drugs (and the bending of reality) so he can hero-worship in peace.

  60. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    The won’t be harmful 20-40 yrs from now. If anything we’re going toward them be legal.

  61. mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    “we see therefore we know,
    better than you.”

  62. randy l. February 6th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    “we buy pennants.”

    there’s nothing wrong with buying something if you earn it. part of the reason the yankees historically were in a position to buy pennants is they had done something right to earn the money in the first place. it’s not just being in new york. look at all the other mlb teams that have struggled there.

    but the present management and ownership is just the recipient of all that cash. they didn’t earn it or create it. they really don’t get it. they simply don’t understand the game of baseball that well.

    the present management is stronger on the business side of baseball, but the problem with that is eventually putting out a bad product impacts the business side of the game.

    i also wonder about the character of yankee management and ownership. has any team been more involved in the use of PEDS ?

  63. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    i also wonder about the character of yankee management and ownership. has any team been more involved in the use of PEDS ?

    ——————————-

    Maybe the As of the 90s but of course that was before the lid got blown off

  64. randy l. February 6th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    “I never cared when people complained about buying pennants. The team was spending its own money. I vote in favor of buying some more.”

    yup, and right now the problem is not buying some more :)

  65. mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    the yanks can still buy this years pennant.
    i think it is part of the plan.
    it will bring them amnesty in 2014 when we won’t recognize the team
    and youth will be served.
    all will love it, if they win.
    if they don’t, call it growth and rebuilding .

  66. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    The problem I have with Braun’s story is that his defense wasn’t about the results – it was about procedure. Now, could he have hired Bosch as a consultant to find out what the failure to follow procedure could have done to the sample? Sure, that’s plausible. But this seems like a lot of money for that.

  67. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    The problem I have with Braun’s story is that his defense wasn’t about the results – it was about procedure. Now, could he have hired Bosch as a consultant to find out what the failure to follow procedure could have done to the sample? Sure, that’s plausible. But this seems like a lot of money for that.

    For Braun’s legal team the idea is to win the trial. You explore every avenue of winning the trial. It is also highly likely that Braun also bought PEDs being as he is a UM guy, but on the face of it hiring this guy as a consultant makes sense.

    Calcaterra is all over it: https://twitter.com/craigcalcaterra/status/299127207614365696

  68. mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    The problem I have with Braun’s story is that his defense wasn’t about the results
    =========================================
    Bosch turned them in, they are deadbeats.
    Braun is a phony.

  69. randy l. February 6th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    miami is kind of a strange place.

    there is really a mixtures of the haves and the have nots. parts of the city are like third world countries. it’s kind of the wild wild west is a lot of ways. you live in a gated community and shop at exclusive malls and that’s one world and then you go five blocks away and see poverty and massive crime.

    for good or bad, alex is a product of the culture down there.

  70. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    JF -

    You actually hit on a good point – that the two groups this looks the worst for are University of Miami and the Levinson Brothers.

  71. PacoDooley February 6th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    Bronx Jeers February 6th, 2013 at 9:57 am
    And as Yankee fans how do we think relative smallfries like Cervelli, Melky and Montero got turned onto this guy? Who’s their “connection” in Miami? Hmmmm…
    ———————————

    Indeed – how about they offer Montero amnesty if he dishes on his connections and how he ended up at a clinic in Miami with links to a prominent Yankee.

    This also reminds me of the talk early last season – people saying “you see, Alex told the Yankees to sign Melky – saw that he was working hard and would have a bust out season”. In retrospect, let’s speculate as to why A-Rod would think that Melky was ready to bust out…

  72. mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    there must be quite a few of these clinics around the country and out of it.
    this is not going away…

  73. Patrick February 6th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    there must be quite a few of these clinics around the country and out of it.
    this is not going away…

    True. Which is why we need to just accept it and ignore PED’s from now on :)

  74. Bronx Jeers February 6th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    But what’s the agenda though…the complete and total destruction of baseball

    ————-

    To me the message is ” if you’re going to make us (MLB) look bad then we’re going to make you look bad”.

    In other words….. If you f**k with our money we’re going to f**k with yours. Because Bud Selig’s first duty is to keep cash register ringing.

  75. mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    In retrospect, let’s speculate as to why A-Rod would think that Melky was ready to bust out…
    ====================================
    If Arod spawned Melky , can Robbie be far behind?
    Could be part of the reason Yanks wanted them separated.

  76. yanks61 February 6th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    Austinmac, it was me that recommended the Lefty book to you. If you care for another great read (IMO), get a hold of “The Era: 1947-1957 (When the Yankees, the Gians and the Dodgers Ruled the World.”)

    —————————————————————————-

    Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 10:30 am
    The won’t be harmful 20-40 yrs from now. If anything we’re going toward them be legal.

    I would think that genetic manipulation of humans would be more likely as the science in that area advances. Either way, life as we know will become quite different from what is is now. In many ways, I would hope, for the better. Genetics might very well be what eventually licks the big C and who knows what other terrible diseases, along with making super sluggers in BB a dime a dozen. they’ll just have to change the rules!

  77. RadioKev February 6th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:50 am
    there must be quite a few of these clinics around the country and out of it.
    this is not going away…
    ———–

    Absolutely. We’ve found one that’s been a hot spot for Yankees. There must be other circles too.

  78. mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    100 HR’s could be the new norm.
    Brave , New World.

  79. Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    i think the fact that cano’s name hasn’t come up yet is encouraging.

    you’d think if he was in with melky and arod that his name would have been there right along with those guy’s names.

    im not saying he’s definitely clean, but as each day goes by and he’s not on the list with his workout buds, the better.

  80. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Bronx Jeers February 6th, 2013 at 10:51 am
    But what’s the agenda though…the complete and total destruction of baseball

    ————-

    To me the message is ” if you’re going to make us (MLB) look bad then we’re going to make you look bad”.

    In other words….. If you f**k with our money we’re going to f**k with yours. Because Bud Selig’s first duty is to keep cash register ringing.

    —————-

    True you have a point

  81. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Patrick February 6th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    there must be quite a few of these clinics around the country and out of it.
    this is not going away…

    True. Which is why we need to just accept it and ignore PED’s from now on
    ——————-

    Completely backward thinking. True, we’re never going to see the game cleared of drugs – but catching and punishing those who get caught using them is the right thing to do.

  82. mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    If 75% are using, baseball can’t suspend them all.
    Viva la Revolucion!

  83. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 10:57 am

    mick February 6th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    In retrospect, let’s speculate as to why A-Rod would think that Melky was ready to bust out…
    ====================================
    If Arod spawned Melky , can Robbie be far behind?
    Could be part of the reason Yanks wanted them separated.
    —————

    Part of the reason I wouldn’t mind if Cano walks (the other part being an 8 year contract)

  84. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Completely backward thinking. True, we’re never going to see the game cleared of drugs – but catching and punishing those who get caught using them is the right thing to do.

    PED use in baseball is like marijuana use in America or PED use in america. A waste of time and money for the agencies involved in trying to prosecute or prevent. Legalize it.

  85. blake February 6th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    “For Braun’s legal team the idea is to win the trial. You explore every avenue of winning the trial. It is also highly likely that Braun also bought PEDs being as he is a UM guy, but on the face of it hiring this guy as a consultant makes sense.”

    hiring him as a consultant makes sense or at least is plausible yes…..20-30 thousand bucks for a consult though sounds weird?

  86. Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    so let me get this straight. 19 shots of PED’s per visit, twice a month over 4 seasons at least.

    those 900 something violations of the drug policy can only get arod a 50 game suspension?

    why isn’t each injection or each ‘visit’ or each purchase or each season counted as a separate violation?

  87. mick February 6th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    Players are trying to take over, there is no turning back.
    There is strength in numbers and they know it.
    If all are taking, the only way to stop it is to shutdown baseball, which isn’t happening.
    MLB has a protected list of players and if that list ever gets out is when the sh!t hits the fan(s).
    And it is about the fans.
    Eventually they will soften and the players will win.

  88. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Well there is a guy on another board basically hinting at Cano’s name being on the list. He has some source don’t know who or what but he has it. The source told him Melky would get popped for roids and like a week it happened. He also stated Braun was on the list back on Jan. 29.

    The thing is though when he mentions Cano he always says I hope I’m wrong.

  89. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    20-30 thousand bucks for a consult though sounds weird?

    Consulting is a lucrative business when you have rich people throwing money around to win a case.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....plausible/

    And what of $20,000 to $30,000 that Braun’s attorneys allegedly still owed Bosch? Isn’t that a lot of money to pay a consultant to answer some questions about T/E ratios and tampering with samples? No, it’s not. My guess is that Braun’s appeal cost upwards of a million dollars. Twenty or thirty thousand dollars for a consultant is a drop in the bucket.

  90. blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    the funny thing is that the only 2 players listed that have been any good the last couple of years are Braun and Gio….the rest have either been terrible or are trending the wrong way or get hurt all the time.

  91. PacoDooley February 6th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 10:59 am
    PED use in baseball is like marijuana use in America or PED use in america. A waste of time and money for the agencies involved in trying to prosecute or prevent. Legalize it.
    —————————

    I agree with you on pot – stupid waste of money and lives. But the problem with PEDs is that it can mean that talented players that are not willing to medicate themselves cannot compete fairly. I think that fairness and protection of those that are unwilling to use PEDs is noble and worthy.

    If we assume that most of baseball history has been largely devoid of major PEDs (and I don’t think uppers made a crucial difference, hence the fact that no one hit 60 HRs for several decades), then the banning of PEDs also connects eras in terms of statistics.

  92. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Completely backward thinking. True, we’re never going to see the game cleared of drugs – but catching and punishing those who get caught using them is the right thing to do.

    PED use in baseball is like marijuana use in America or PED use in america. A waste of time and money for the agencies involved in trying to prosecute or prevent. Legalize it.
    ————

    Except that studies suggest the long term impact of PED use is a lot more harmful than marijuana.

  93. blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Josh Norris ?@jnorris427
    The last six on Klaw’s top 10 #yankees: Hensley, Ramirez, Banuelos, Campos, Montgomery, Gumbs

  94. Patrick February 6th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Keith Law’s Yankee top 10 prospects:

    1. Gary Sanchez, C (18)
    2. Mason Williams, CF (35)
    3. Tyler Austin, RF (52)
    4. Slade Heathcott, CF (56)
    5. Ty Hensley, RHP
    6. Jose Ramirez, RHP
    7. Manny Banuelos, LHP
    8. Jose Campos, RHP
    9. Mark Montgomery, RHP
    10. Angelo Gumbs, 2B

  95. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    why isn’t each injection or each ‘visit’ or each purchase or each season counted as a separate violation?

    ————————-

    You want A-rod banned for life or something close to it

  96. 86w183 February 6th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    I’m not sure I’m ready to open the door to all PED use, but since testosterone and HGH already occur in the human body I’m less concerned about those PEDs than the “hard stuff”.

  97. RadioKev February 6th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    At least Campos is healthy: http://riveraveblues.com/2013/.....ram-82080/

  98. blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Maybe that money is appropriate…..I dunno….Braun should be able to prove his case though if in fact his lawyers were involved.

  99. J. Alfred Prufrock February 6th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    This also reminds me of the talk early last season – people saying “you see, Alex told the Yankees to sign Melky – saw that he was working hard and would have a bust out season”. In retrospect, let’s speculate as to why A-Rod would think that Melky was ready to bust out…
    ///

    This is pretty far-fetched, IMO. He saw he was in great shape and saw his left-handed and right-handed swings and how he was hitting the ball.

    Last season, there was an article about San Francisco players marveling over Melky’s “identical swings” from both sides of the plate.

    Alex understands hitting and saw those adjustments and predicted he was going to bust out. He was right.

    Knowing a fellow player used a PED doesn’t mean you instantly become prescient about how that player’s going to hit; because using a PED doesn’t give you the ability to hit for average from both sides of the plate. As I’ve asked others here: given the reported rampant use of synthetic testosterone in the game (what Melky tested positive for) – where are all the other .300-plus hitters?

  100. pat February 6th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    If 20-30 K was the going rate for answering qustions about T/E ratios, Bosch should have given up the PED distribution business because answering questions is legal and more lucrative.

  101. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    the funny thing is that the only 2 players listed that have been any good the last couple of years are Braun and Gio….the rest have either been terrible or are trending the wrong way or get hurt all the time.
    —————–

    Again though you’re missing the point – PED use doesn’t result in better play; it allows you to recover from physical activity and injury faster. So you can work harder and longer than a guy not on steroids. It does NOT mean that you’re going to be a better player.

  102. Patrick February 6th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Law’s sleepers are Ty Hensley and Ben Gamel.

  103. Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    “You want A-rod banned for life or something close to it”
    ===================================
    i think anyone who cheats over 900 times should be banned for life.

  104. PacoDooley February 6th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:02 am
    the funny thing is that the only 2 players listed that have been any good the last couple of years are Braun and Gio….the rest have either been terrible or are trending the wrong way or get hurt all the time.
    ————————

    PEDs are not a panacea – they can clearly help a very talented player maintain a high level of performance over a long time, and tip those stars over the edge to super-stardom (e.g., Sosa). But they are not going to turn a mediocre guy into a star in general, and while they can help people heal, they can also lead to their own brands of injury (e.g., Giambi, and the rumors of the Piazza injury link).

  105. RadioKev February 6th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 11:02 am
    Well there is a guy on another board basically hinting at Cano’s name being on the list. He has some source don’t know who or what but he has it. The source told him Melky would get popped for roids and like a week it happened. He also stated Braun was on the list back on Jan. 29.

    The thing is though when he mentions Cano he always says I hope I’m wrong.
    ———–

    It really does seem way more likely than not that Cano is connected.

  106. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    If we assume that most of baseball history has been largely devoid of major PEDs (and I don’t think uppers made a crucial difference, hence the fact that no one hit 60 HRs for several decades), then the banning of PEDs also connects eras in terms of statistics.

    Baseball is a sort based on playing every day, where you need focus and energy. I think amphetamines are MORE helpful than steroids. Keep in mind that stats have been deflating, but that players are still using steroids. Probably a lot of them. Yet Amphetamines were also banned. And you cannot take amphetamines in the safety of your home gym while working out, you need to be able to take them before or during a game. And testing is most likely to be done at that time. I’m deducing there that players are more capable of continued steroid use but not amphetamine use.

    When looking at the history of stats in the game, you must also consider things like the mound height, stadium construction, integration, and the ball.

  107. RadioKev February 6th, 2013 at 11:06 am

    And talk about Wang, how about Brandon Webb retiring? There’s a crying shame. That guy was looking like the next Roy Halladay.

  108. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    i think anyone who cheats over 900 times should be banned for life.

    So all the players who tested positive once should be banned for life?

  109. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 11:05 am
    “You want A-rod banned for life or something close to it”
    ===================================
    i think anyone who cheats over 900 times should be banned for life.

    —————————————————————–

    Well then you might as well shut the sport down because he isn’t the only one.

  110. blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    “You want A-rod banned for life or something close to it”

    I want Arod, Gio, and Brauns conract to all be voided and I want Arod to retire and for the Yankees to sign Braun and Gio

  111. J. Alfred Prufrock February 6th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Now ARod is a corrupter of youth, too, eh?

    What else is he responsible for – global warming?

  112. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    i think anyone who cheats over 900 times should be banned for life.

    So all the players who tested positive once should be banned for life?
    ————–

    I’m fine with that. FWIW so are many current ball players.

  113. randy l. February 6th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    “PED use in baseball is like marijuana use in America or PED use in america. A waste of time and money for the agencies involved in trying to prosecute or prevent. Legalize it.”

    i have no problem with that.

    however, i also have no interest in following a sport where most of the athletes are jose canseco clones.

    so how does this baseball business that allows PEDS make money if people like me won’t watch ?
    or does it become a big “sport” like WWE?

    in other words does baseball become a sport for dumb asses like WWE is for ?

    surely that isn’t what you’re interested in?
    baseball is better than that.

  114. Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    ” Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    i think anyone who cheats over 900 times should be banned for life.

    So all the players who tested positive once should be banned for life?

    ===========================================
    there seems to be a reading comprehension problem here.

  115. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    It really does seem way more likely than not that Cano is connected

    —————–

    It does but we have to wait and see.

  116. blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    BA had Depaula ranked 10th….nobody seems to know where to rank him cause he hasn’t pitched over here. He could very well be the Yanks best pitching prospect though…..just nobody knows yet.

  117. RadioKev February 6th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    Is it responsible journalism to speculate that Cano is connected here? It’s the elephant in the room.

  118. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    It really does seem way more likely than not that Cano is connected

    —————–

    It does but we have to wait and see.
    —————–

    The way things are going his positive test will break the day after he signs an 8 year contract with the Yankees for $250 M.

  119. RadioKev February 6th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:09 am
    BA had Depaula ranked 10th….nobody seems to know where to rank him cause he hasn’t pitched over here. He could very well be the Yanks best pitching prospect though…..just nobody knows yet.
    ——–

    For as much as people have ragged on Cashman’s prospect development, it’s nice to see this much upside in the organization. It’s potentially coming at the right time too.

  120. Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    is the comment section considered ‘journalism’?

  121. Bronx Jeers February 6th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Miami is very much like a Latin American city that happens to be in the US.

    \\\\\\\\\\\\

    @yardisiak It is standard practice for criminal defense lawyers to hire former offenders of the same law as consultants.

    ————–

    If I was being tried for murder would it really matter in court if I paid OJ Simpson for his advice?

    On the other hand if I’m fighting a PED charge where just association could have an effect on my livelihood, how smart is it to get my name in the ledger of steroid dealer?

    Calcaterras doing a great job playing devils advocate in this whole mess but this isn’t a criminal
    case.

  122. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:11 am

    Except that studies suggest the long term impact of PED use is a lot more harmful than marijuana.

    They are also proven to have great benefits with fewer downsides if properly administered. The point I was making is that it is stupid and a waste to try to go after PEDs. The DEA basically won’t attempt to bring a case forward because it is very hard to get convictions, or so I read in one of the various news articles about this case. All you need for any of this to be legal is a doctor saying he saw the patient and thinks its ok.

  123. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    there seems to be a reading comprehension problem here.

    Do you think players who tested positive once only ever used a PED one time? Do you think the culmination of their positive test is 1 injection?

  124. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 11:12 am

    Chip February 6th, 2013 at 11:10 am
    Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    It really does seem way more likely than not that Cano is connected

    —————–

    It does but we have to wait and see.
    —————–

    The way things are going his positive test will break the day after he signs an 8 year contract with the Yankees for $250 M.

    —————

    Lol exactly or ST when he arrives

  125. PacoDooley February 6th, 2013 at 11:13 am

    blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:07 am
    “You want A-rod banned for life or something close to it”

    I want Arod, Gio, and Brauns conract to all be voided and I want Arod to retire and for the Yankees to sign Braun and Gio
    ———————————–

    Yeah, I agree, though it’s funny that we have tended to believe that PEDs users will continue to play well after they have been caught (e.g., the push the sign Melky). Braun has continued to be very good. A-Rod was great the season after being caught, Pettitte has been very good (though it is unclear whether HGH really is a PED strictly speaking). Maybe this suggests that they all simply continue to use (as in A-Rod). That said, Manny was horrible after being caught…

  126. Mike Ri February 6th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Is it responsible journalism to speculate that Cano is connected here? It?s the elephant in the room.

    —–
    In my mind . .its just a matter time….

  127. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:11 am

    Except that studies suggest the long term impact of PED use is a lot more harmful than marijuana.

    They are also proven to have great benefits with fewer downsides if properly administered.
    —————-

    The problem is that “proper administration” means that the people getting them have legitimate needs for the drugs – much like how drugs like adderall can have positive effects for people with ADD but negative ones for those who are using it to help them pull all-nighters.

  128. blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    for the Yanks to be ranked in the upper 1/3 by BA and Law is pretty good considering where they have drafted and that they have shut down taking big gambles internationally. …..but it really means nothing unless they can get these guys to the big leagues

  129. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:15 am

    so how does this baseball business that allows PEDS make money if people like me won’t watch ?
    or does it become a big “sport” like WWE?

    in other words does baseball become a sport for dumb asses like WWE is for ?

    surely that isn’t what you’re interested in?
    baseball is better than that.

    You’re connecting the two on the loosest principles. And its already a connection that, if you wanted to think about, already exists. 1. You’ve already watched and enjoyed the use of PEDs in the sport for decades. 2. Wrestling is a sham because it is scripted entertainment, not a real competition, which runs off the worst kind of human behavior at its core.

    Players on PEDs are still using their talent and ability to compete on the field of play, following the same rules of the game as everyone else. PED use in wrestling is to get a physique, which is then used in fake fights. Not really the same.

  130. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    The problem is that “proper administration” means that the people getting them have legitimate needs for the drugs – much like how drugs like adderall can have positive effects for people with ADD but negative ones for those who are using it to help them pull all-nighters.

    You do not need legitimate need for them, assuming by legitimate you mean medically expedient. You just need a doctor willing to write a scrip for it, which is most of them. Its how the feds basically could not get any convictions in another florida ‘wellness & aging’ clinic bust.

  131. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    blake February 6th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    for the Yanks to be ranked in the upper 1/3 by BA and Law is pretty good considering where they have drafted and that they have shut down taking big gambles internationally. …..but it really means nothing unless they can get these guys to the big leagues
    —————

    ….or include them in trades for people who help at the ML level.

  132. randy l. February 6th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    “I’m fine with that. FWIW so are many current ball players.”

    i watch a lot of netflix foreign crime thrillers in the winter, french, danish, swedish, etc.

    if the yankees were the subject of one of these cerebral series. alex the bad guy, would put a PED in jeter the good guy’s starbucks coffee sitting in jeter’s locker. when jeter flunks a PEDS test, how would he be vindicated ? how would alex be caught in the end? how many people would get a sniper bullet through the forehead in the cover up?

    i think it’s time i need green grass and baseballs high in the blue sky :)

    any inference from me using the words “grass” and “high” in the same sentence is purely conjectural.

  133. Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    “Do you think players who tested positive once only ever used a PED one time? Do you think the culmination of their positive test is 1 injection?”
    ————————–
    do you think that everybody who ever failed a drug test cheated over 900 times?

    i was asked specifically if i thought arod should be banned for life.

    i think he should if it’s true that he recieved hundreds or thousands of illegal PED treatments.

    to me, each purchase of PED’s should count as one violation of the drug policy. certainly each individual season should count as a separate violation.

    if the new times is right, arod does deserve a lifetime suspension imo.

  134. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    Remember that Ivan Nova was connected to PEDs back in 2010. So there is another one.

  135. RadioKev February 6th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    Ys Guy February 6th, 2013 at 11:10 am
    is the comment section considered ‘journalism’?
    ———

    Citizen journalism? ;)

  136. Against All Odds February 6th, 2013 at 11:20 am

    1. You’ve already watched and enjoyed the use of PEDs in the sport for decades

    —————————————

    Longer than they realize

  137. Patrick February 6th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    for the Yanks to be ranked in the upper 1/3 by BA and Law is pretty good considering where they have drafted and that they have shut down taking big gambles internationally. …..but it really means nothing unless they can get these guys to the big leagues

    Yeah that top 10 list looks pretty solid. We are looking at Sanchez, Austin, Williams and possibly Heathcott ready for 2015 (if they continue on the same path) – all of whom project to be above average regulars. Obviously a lot can go wrong between now and then but that’s a solid group of players if it all works out.

    I think this year we need to see the pitching prospects really step it up. Campos and Ramirez in particular need to stay healthy and this season is likely Betances’ last shot to make it. We can basically forget about Banuelos until 2014. Best case scenario he’s ready to go 1 year from now, works half the season in AAA and is ready for a call up by 2014 all-star break.

  138. Chip February 6th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    The problem is that “proper administration” means that the people getting them have legitimate needs for the drugs – much like how drugs like adderall can have positive effects for people with ADD but negative ones for those who are using it to help them pull all-nighters.

    You do not need legitimate need for them, assuming by legitimate you mean medically expedient. You just need a doctor willing to write a scrip for it, which is most of them. Its how the feds basically could not get any convictions in another florida ‘wellness & aging’ clinic bust.
    —————

    Well if doctors are giving scrips for drugs patients don’t need and that have harmful side effects then that is not “proper administration” of the drugs.

    Proper administration means giving the drugs to patients who legitimately need HGH because their bodies aren’t producing enough testosterone or they have an illness (Crohn’s disease for example) that doesn’t let their body take in the proper nutrition needed for normal growth. That’s not the same as a perfectly healthy person wanting to go on a PED regimen so that he can work out harder.

  139. J. Alfred Prufrock February 6th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    For as much as people have ragged on Cashman’s prospect development, it’s nice to see this much upside in the organization. It’s potentially coming at the right time too.
    ///

    I think there’s been a great deal of trumpeting the “upside” within the system; much of the criticism has been the lack of nurturing of the “upside.”

    Indeed, it’s the people who are most vocal/informed about what actually is in the system that also tend to be the most vociferous when they see the talent stagnate, or appear to be misused, etc. And since DePaula hasn’t been stateside yet, we can’t presume his “prospect development” will be a given.

    I hope the hiring of Gil Patterson will have a positive impact on all the good arms we have. One thing I don’t want to see anymore is no bend when it comes to stuff like pitches thrown; I want to see a pitcher have to work through trouble in later innings if his arm appears fresh, rather than have them yank him based solely on a pitch count that is some imperative written down by someone who is not even necessarily present at a given game.

    This was a peeve of mine with both Betances and Banuelos, and both pitchers appeared frustrated when they seemed to be in the midst of rallying, and they were robotically removed due to pitch counts. Betances actually complained about it in a general way; Adam Warren also expressed frustration about it.

    Patterson reportedly allows his pitchers to weigh in and is a “feel” kind of mentor. That’s important, because kids don’t want to get a rep as not being able to take instructions, or of being uncooperative, etc.

  140. mick February 6th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    alex dropping a ped in jeters coffee is the prime reason he should be banned from baseball.

    don’t think it won’t happen.

    someone will be made a harsher than 50 game suspension example.

  141. Jerkface February 6th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    Well if doctors are giving scrips for drugs patients don’t need and that have harmful side effects then that is not “proper administration” of the drugs.

    Proper administration means giving the drugs to patients who legitimately need HGH because their bodies aren’t producing enough testosterone or they have an illness (Crohn’s disease for example) that doesn’t let their body take in the proper nutrition needed for normal growth. That’s not the same as a perfectly healthy person wanting to go on a PED regimen so that he can work out harder

    You can take synthetic testosterone, steroids, or HGH without really needing it, while not hitting the negative side effects portion of the drug. Just like you can take cocaine in moderation and not die. Properly administered means on a cycle monitored by your physician, not being injected in a back alley somewhere.

  142. J. Alfred Prufrock February 6th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Again though you’re missing the point – PED use doesn’t result in better play; it allows you to recover from physical activity and injury faster. So you can work harder and longer than a guy not on steroids. It does NOT mean that you’re going to be a better player.
    ///

    Chip,

    You seem to have evolved somewhat in your position. At least, from your having insisted to me, in our discussions, that Melky Cabrera is a fourth OF, with glorified numbers the last two years because of having taken PEDs.

    If you’re “not going to be a better player” from taking PEDs, then those numbers he put up reflect his talent, no?

    Unless you think “fourth OFs” hitting .346 is common.

  143. bruceb February 6th, 2013 at 11:36 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 6th, 2013 at 11:07 am
    Now ARod is a corrupter of youth, too, eh?

    What else is he responsible for – global warming?

    Very probably. Think of the greenhouses gases he emits every time he suffers a bout of flatulence.

  144. randy l. February 6th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    “Players on PEDs are still using their talent and ability to compete on the field of play, following the same rules of the game as everyone else.”

    jerkface-

    i used to play some serious two person beach volleyball in the late eighties in sarasota. there was this early twenties guy from south africa who was a really good athlete ( tennis) in his former country. he was seriously into steroids and cocaine and could jump through the roof and hit the crap out of the ball.

    the problem was he had so much rage in him that when you played him you put your life at risk.
    he was like an animal. anyone who sees that kind of athlete knows there is something wrong with these kind of PEDS.

    that said, i’d prefer they be legal because it’s a better way to deal with them. i’m not however going to pay money to watch an athlete who was like this guy. coincidentally or maybe not so, i used to go down and watch the rangers spring training around that time and canseco, juan gonzalez, palmeiro, irod, julio franco, etc were all there. steroids practically were dripping from them

    muscle heads. cheaters. losers. they are not what the game is about. if it’s going to be about teams like the 1993 rangers, baseball will be a trash sport.

    i realize there’s no easy answers here, but legalization of PEDS doesn’t mean enlightened people will support a league that allows it.

  145. mick February 6th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    not to play devils advocate but many people would pay to see the “animal” randy described play.
    in fact, if there were a team or league of animals playing you might see record attendance.

  146. DONNYBROOK February 6th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    You lost me when you down-played Lennon, and cheered The Stones. You’re on the right track though. Stay on the trail of The British Invasion. That, and the early 80′s music that launched MTV, (especially O’Casik and The Cars), is the absolute Best music in the last 60 years.
    Cervelli is a Perfect example of how PED’s can make the difference between a guy making it to The Show, and languishing at AAA forever. Amazing, how ALL these guys are now latching onto that “consulting” excuse for being on The List. A-Rod woulda been better off going this route, rather than saying he has NEVER been treated or seen this Quackenbush. This type of stance leaves NO wiggle room, and somebody, somewhere, is gonna prove this to be an absolutely False statement. It’s like OJ and those shoes that left the bloody tracks exiting the scene. That picture of him in those spats eventually surfaced, and Johnny Cochrane was killing himself doing a lawerly version of Mr Bojangles.

  147. randy l. February 6th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    “not to play devils advocate but many people would pay to see the “animal” randy described play.”

    mick-

    actually some people on this blog would pay to see me playing that guy in hopes he rips me apart with his bare hands :)

    despite rumors of me not being that smart, i had two volleyball partners i used in games. one was a 6’5” former nfl tight end and the other was 6’8″ and even more athletic and stronger than the first guy.

    that tended to give me freedom of speech with the “animal” while trash talking in games. we used to beat him most of the time, but i definitely kept my distance from him.

    on a humorous note, one day at the courts some of the players hoisted his bike with a rope way up in the top of a pine tree overlooking the volleyball scene.

    now that was funny.

  148. yankeefeminista February 6th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    “much like how drugs like adderall can have positive effects for people with ADD but negative ones for those who are using it to help them pull all-nighters.”

    Adderal can also have negative effects and can be a dangerous and addictive drug, which doctors give it out like candy to young people who don’t even have ADD or doctors overprescribe it to those who do. See for example: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02.....icide.html

  149. alvarofer February 6th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    Wang and Brandon Webb were being constantly compared … how fast things change.

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