Spring decision: Right-handed outfielder
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 07, 2013 
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Brian Cashman said he hasn’t stopped looking for a right-handed outfielder, but the free agent market has run dry, and unless Cashman can find a trade partner — or discover someone useful on the waiver wire — the Yankees will be forced to take some sort of risk. They clearly need someone to balance their all-left-handed group of outfield starters, but there isn’t a can’t-miss choice coming to camp.
The situation
When the Yankees signed Ichiro Suzuki to a two-year deal, they locked themselves into a very specific need. With three starting outfielders who hit left-handed, it only makes sense to carry a right-handed reserve. But Cody Ross signed with the Diamondbacks, Scott Hairston and Nate Schierholtz went to the Cubs, Delmon Young landed with the Phillies, and the rest of the market didn’t offer any real standouts (the rest were either everyday players or guys with significant uncertainty). The Yankees signed two of the uncertain guys to minor league deals — Matt Diaz and Juan Rivera — and temporarily had another option when they claimed Russ Canzler off waivers only to lose him through the same process. Now the Yankees head into camp with Diaz and Rivera set to compete against a series of upper-level minor leaguers.
The options
It’s worth noting that there might be room for two of these guys — one to help in the outfield and one to platoon at designated hitter — so the Yankees don’t have to decide on just one of these options. They can mix and match if necessary. Essentially, these are their choices: 1. Trust a veteran. Diaz and Rivera are the only right-handed outfielders coming to camp with more than 23 Major League at-bats, and younger players occasionally struggle in part-time roles. The past three years, the Yankees have used Marcus Thames and Andruw Jones as platoon outfielders, so there’s precedent for choosing an older, experienced player for the job. 2. See this as an opportunity. The Yankees want to get younger and cheaper, and Melky Mesa, Ronnier Mustelier, Zoilo Almonte and recently signed former Giants and Indians prospect Thomas Neal are opportunities to do just that. There are other young options coming to camp, but those four seem to be the most big-league ready. 3. Focus on flexibility. This doesn’t have to be strictly a job for a corner outfielder who can hit lefties. Mustelier could also help out at third base. Mesa could be a dangerous pinch runner (so could Abe Almonte). Zoilo Almonte is a switch hitter who was especially good against right-handers last year.
The fallout
I honestly can’t explain my fascination with Mustelier. Maybe it has something to do with the name, but I’ve always been intrigued by him, and I’ve had people in the organization tell me he’s worth watching for exactly this sort of role. He’s 28 years old with very good minor league numbers the past two years, and this might be a prime opportunity for the Yankees to find out whether they can get some value out of him. If the Yankees aren’t interested in him under these circumstances, when would they be interested? That said, all of the minor league options are going to have to show something in spring training to have a real shot. Mesa strikes out a ton, Almonte hasn’t been to Triple-A yet, Neal’s success has come at Double-A and lower, and guys like Adonis Garcia, Tyler Austin and Rob Segedin don’t have the upper-level experience to be considered more than extreme long shots. As much as it might make sense to give a young guy a chance, the safer bet might be Diaz or Rivera. And there’s still a chance that an unexpected option will enter the picture at some point.
Associated Press photo
@RobinsonCano
Miami what’s up! Just got here for espn shoot, pics coming soon….
Omg, someone tell Robbie to get out of Miami STAT!!
Abort, Robbie, Abort!!!!
Agreed. Don’t be shooting up in Miami.
Repost:
jsquat
Out of all I posted, you are going to cherry pick that, and then misinterpret it?
I said don’t post the budget numbers, I already know them. It’s pointless. Discuss what I was discussing.
__
I didn’t cherry pick it. I chose that part of the post to respond to because the numbers show that if Jeter rejects his option and negotiates a new, bigger deal, and Cano re-signs at huge money, that close to $120m could be tied up in 5 players.
That runs counter to your assertion that [t]he Yankees still have a decent amount of money left to spend.”
How is $50-$55m a decent amount of money to fill out the remainder of the entire roster of a team that can, in Hal’s words, win the WS every year.
Good grief.
I guess that douche from the last thread doesn’t know the difference between amphetamines and caffeine.
Sure, it is true that ballplayers for 100 years often drank pre-game coffee that was laced with speed but you’d have to be an imbecile to believe that strong coffee would have the same affect on a player’s body over a long brutal schedule as popping a few greenies
If that were the case….A.) amphetamines would not have been banned or B.) MLB would have also banned energy drinks/Starbucks too
Go, Robbie Alomar!!!
I think it would be a good idea to avoid Miami, too.
That said, what could be better than to be a young man going to Spring Training, with visions of multi-millions dancing in your head? Don’t they realize what’s at stake? Probably not, being young, talented, rich and stupid to the ways of the world. There are bad guys out there, though, and somehow they always find these kids, or the kids find them.
Rich in NJ February 7th, 2013 at 6:58 pm
I didn’t cherry pick it. I chose that part of the post to respond to because the numbers show that if Jeter rejects his option and negotiates a new, bigger deal, and Cano re-signs at huge money, that close to $120m could be tied up in 5 players.
That runs counter to your assertion that [t]he Yankees still have a decent amount of money left to spend.”
How is $50-$55m a decent amount of money to fill out the remainder of the entire roster of a team that can, in Hal’s words, win the WS every year.
—
Alright…
For starters I think it’s closer to 110, but regardless..
It’s a big chunk of the budget but you’ve also filled the most important spots on the roster.
Ace, 1/2 and 3-5 hitters (if they don’t get out of Arod’s contract he is playing and should be good enough to hit 5th)
Plus they have Gardner and Ichiro already, who add the other 1/2 and 9 in the lineup. So the only spots left in the lineup are essentially 6-8. You also have Robertson who can probably be the closer.
I just don’t see it as nearly a guaranteed bad team like some people here, that can’t win unless it gets extremely lucky with prospects or unexpected performances.
Jerry Howarth ( forever Jays announcer out of S.F. ), said Alomar is the next best thing he saw to Willie Mays. I concur, what choice do I got ?
My starting pitcher is still, Dave Stieb.
Mark Eichorn was an interesting somewhat sidearmer.
Jack Morris and Dave Stieb really had it going!
( Morris is now doing radio with Howarth up here )
jacksquat, if Jeter opted out and got 15 million. And Cano signs for 25 million. Then the Yankees will have 141 locked up on: CC, Tex, A-rod, Jeter, Ichiro, & Cano.
So 48 left for 4 rotation slots, 6-7 bullpen slots, CF, LF, DH, C, Bench, 15 40 man spots, A-rod’s 6 million bonus if he doesnt hit 13 hrs in 2013, and some wiggle room for being able to call up or use players that make the league minimum.
Thats dicey!
“It’s a big chunk of the budget but you’ve also filled the most important spots on the roster.”
That would arguably be true if A-Rod and Tex were still performing in-line with peak, or even near peak, stats, but they aren’t likely to do that.
“Plus they have Gardner and Ichiro already, who add the other 1/2 and 9 in the lineup. So the only spots left in the lineup are essentially 6-8. You also have Robertson who can probably be the closer”
Ichiro will be entering his age 40 season. Coming off two consecutive declining seasons (save for one month), I don’t see how we can expect a lot from him.
Gardner, yeah, that’s a hope for some upside, if he stays fully healthy.
btw, Robertson and Gardner could be making close to $10m combined. While that would normally be fine, assuming they produce up to expectations, that leaves even less money for a significant number of roster spots.
For example, who’s in the rotation besides CC? Nova? Phelps? Pineda? Banuelos? At this point, we can’t say that any of them is more than a 4th starter (for some of them, we can’t be sure that they will be able to take the mound).
“I just don’t see it as nearly a guaranteed bad team like some people here, that can’t win unless it gets extremely lucky with prospects or unexpected performances.”
When the owner sets the bar as Hal has, bad, imo, is besides the point. Is it likely to come close meeting to his stated goals? As many of us have said, not unless a lot of unlikely things go perfectly.
Then there is the issue of player development.
I wouldn’t mind if they lost a lot of games for a season or two if the team had a large portion of its starting lineup made up of quality young players. But the Yankees haven’t shown that type of patience in two decades, and again, how is that going to be consistent with Hal’s apparent expectations?
we’ll know alot more about how hard it will be to get under the cap as the year goes on.
if nova and phelps can hold down rotation spots, that makes it alot easier.
if romine can catch that helps. if heathcott or williams can be at least the 4th OF that helps alot.
all of these things arent going to work out, but just a couple of them will make things fit much tidier.
Hi, JF and Rich, what do you think about Jerry Mumphries?
Butch Wynegar, was a catcher who just never carried on. You guys took a chance on him. I had Ernie Whitt.
Seriously stay away, Robby Cano. At least from the drug peddlers.
He gets heat from fans for not always hustling and smiling too much, but he’s not dumb. I always feared he might get caught up in ARod’s Miami circle of friends. So far he hasn’t been involved in all that crap. Good for him.
I bring up the name, Bill Freehan, because he was great. Gary Carter, the Kid.
Thurman, is my #1 choice! ( Ahead of, Bench )
“The Red Sox always skate on PED stuff”
Why yes they do! They always skate on everything. Jack Daniels in the clubhouse before postseason games. Now let’s talk about that for a minute and how that could be interpreted as cheating. Seems everybody wants to skate on by without digging below the surface. It is hardly a mystery that players are amped up (natural adrenaline) in postseason games. You see it with pitching in the early innings, you see it with hitters swinging at air. A nice shot or two of Jack Daniels is just what the doctor ordered to soothe nervous tension. An edge? Of course it’s an edge. But it’s the Sux, and so they skate. Hello 2004!
And the there was Nomar looking like man mountain Dean, Trot Nixon with his perptual anger, Varitek with the same, and then the fertility/milkshake duo. And Gabe Kapler was also suspected of being, well, wicked pumped up! Theo as much as acknowledged that Gagne was juicing – not that they cared, apparently.
2004, 2007 and then sweet karma in 2009, 2011 and 2012.
I always felt that the Yanks went through their dry moments of the soul due to Giambi and Clemens – and Arod, and yes even Andy. The many end up paying for the few.
I always said that as long as the lying king of milkshakes was on the Sux, they wouldn’t sniff another world series.
Okay, wish I could spew more venom in the direction of beantown but I have to run one more pre-snow errand.
Later y’all.
Giuseppe Franco February 7th, 2013 at 7:29 pm
Good grief.
I guess that douche from the last thread doesn’t know the difference between amphetamines and caffeine.
==========
Attitude adjustment needed……………LOL !
idk what you’re choosing catchers for and freehan was great.
but bench was the best.
The rotation is the biggest question, that’s why everyone should be praying that Pineda can return to his prior form. Either that or Nova becomes a #2. Hughes would have to be signed so he’s just like any other free agent.
JF, I have:
Arod: 27.5
Tex: 22.5
CC: 24.4
Cano: 24 (I don’t know if they’d go 25, I thought it might be 23-23.5 aav)
Jeter: 15 (really?)
That’s 113.4 (Rich’s 5 players)
+ Ichiro = 119.9
I don’t know if those AAV’s are precisely correct, but I don’t know how you got to 141 for those 6 guys.
I agree Gardner + Robertson will probably be around 10 mil but that’s probably good bang for the buck so no problem there.
jmills
Mumphries? What am I missing?
there are other expenses that don’t count in salaries but do count against the cap. i believe jf put that figure at about $12M.
but even still that leaves more than $50M after ichiro it looks like.
unfortunately, arod will very likely cost you an extra $6M next year as he passes mays.
one thing that concearns me, though is what happens if mo or pettitte decide they dont want to hang ‘em up after this year?
that’d throw a big wrench in the works.
YS, Bench hit 45 early on but didn’t last like Bob Boone.
Rich, nothing
I simply hope the prospects are given a fair shot. I would much rather watch Mustelier hit than Rivera. He might not be better, but he provides hope he can succeed.
again, i dont know by what standard you are rating catchers. boone was good but not in bench and thurman’s class.
If JF is including the insurance,etc. that’s another 11 mil or so, right?
so 131, not 141. Unless you also include Gardner and Robertson, in which case you have a CF and Cl.
Darrell Porter with the Brewers was another strong catcher.
i remember porter (with the glasses) as a royal and cardinal as he was in mizzou while i was there.
he was a nice contributor for both teams.
YS, I remember Porter with those aviator glasses in my b-ball cards too!
I have John Boccabella action card with the Expos!
“I simply hope the prospects are given a fair shot.”
I’m with you Mac. For years prospects have been blocked by high priced veterans. Well thats not the case anymore. I’m curious to see how they handle it.
Manny Sanguillen vs Ray Fosse
porter rockin the fu…..
http://dickallenhof.blogspot.c.....bench.html
Hi, Tar, Alex Lifeson is living the dream!
I love Bobby Grich! ” Here, come over, I’ll put my knee in you face, you don’t have a chance! ” – jmills
http://www.youtube.com/embed/z.....#038;rel=0
on the plus side, arod only came in 5th in forbes list of the most disliked atheletes in america.
sorry, he came in 6th:
armstrong, te’o, woods, cutler, worldpeace calique, vick, kurt busch, kobe, romo.
So I was bored and I started looking at the twitter stuff. I clicked on Nunez’s account and it has a pic of him throwing the ball.
That is not how a pro ball player is supposed to throw the ball!!!! Sheesh pick a different picture Nunie !!
I’m not sure of the grip he’s using (almost looks like a change-up) But I know it’s not right.
Jacksquat, here are my numbers. If Jeter has a good year and opts out, I assume he would want a contract similar to what he got before. I originally put it at 17 mil but thought that would be way too expensive. I think 15 mil is a high end possibility.
A-rod: 27.5
CC: 24.4
Tex: 22.5
Ichiro: 6.5
Benefits: 11
Cano: 25 (come on, less than 25? If he OPS .900 he is getting 25 at least)
Jeter: 15
Jeter’s Opt out Penalty: 9
=
140.9
So you can jiggle those numbers around how you want between Cano & Jeter, though I think both of those are pretty spot on estimates of what they get assuming good production.
Its in the best interests of the Yankees that Jeter not opt out, which makes it very likely he will opt out.
That leaves 48 for everything else. The problem with these numbers is that a player like A-rod or Ichiro or even Jeter could end up worthless in 2014 just due to age/injury accumulation. So you’re paying these premiums for incredibly risky players.
Jerkface February 7th, 2013 at 7:44 pm
jacksquat, if Jeter opted out and got 15 million. And Cano signs for 25 million. Then the Yankees will have 141 locked up on: CC, Tex, A-rod, Jeter, Ichiro, & Cano.
*******
Even I do not need an excel spreadsheet to see this one is wrong:
CC gets 24.4, ARod 27.5, Ichiro 6.5, Tex at 22.5, Cano at 25, and Jeter let’s put him at 21 with all the funky things with his contract and the 6 million previously due as the tax hit (15 + 6)
that’s 126.9 – heck even if you put in the 6 million from ARod’s bonus you are still below the 141 you quoted – - – - -
This is Stoneburner, reporting from Ceti Alpha V, with the most bizarre reply wax poetic minute to date (and this is the excel spreadsheet guru for the lohud???)
cgrand sure seems like a good guy:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/.....1;mlb.html
Calculators hard to come by in space?
141 locked up on: CC, Tex, A-rod, Jeter, Ichiro, & Cano.
*****
Oh now it is supposed to include the benefit – how about locked on CC, Tex, A-rod, Jeter, Ichiro & Cano + benefits – that even makes the argument weaker form your standpoint now – - – -
the number would be 24 million hit for Jeter – another thing not included in the original analysis – - – -
that is 48 million with minus 7.5 million for the 15 roster spots
that leaves 41.5 million for LF, CF, C, DH/3B, UOF, UI, UI, BUC, #2, #3, #4, #5, closer and six bullpen spots.
Of those – #4 and #5 can be filled internally with the likes of Nova, Phelps, Marshall,
six bullpen spots are internal candiates
CF and closer go to Gardner and Robterson
UOF UI UI BUC can all be filled internally
Catcher probably also goes cheap again
LF probably goes to an internal rookie – like a Heatchott or Flores
So you probably are looking at #2, #3, DH/3B to caddy AROD + 6 million if AROD passes Mays milestone
In the end – doable – but as I have said – and look it up – they keys are #2 and #3 in the rotation – one of them more likely than not has to come from within – - – -that’s the thing no one gets – it comes down to spots #2 and #3 – - – - -
Stone, Jimmy Key was the best!
its probably doable but tight with cano.
if they trade him at the TD and come up with a 3b or SP at 1/2 cano’s price, that would probably do it.
Of course it includes benefits, those are a fixed cost. You can’t say the Yankees have X to spend when X is actually X – benefits. The premise was established with Jeter opting out, thus the cost of that opt out were included. Must I include a footnote to my article about the CBA impacts with every post? Or can I assume that some people are paying attention.
Well maybe I should include them for you, since you got it wrong in your hastily written, bad maths attack post.
YS and Fran Tarkenton rule!
JF
Doesn’t the 189 include the whole 40 man roster? If so what is the approximate hit for the 15 minor league guys?
“if they trade him at the TD and come up with a 3b or SP at 1/2 cano’s price, that would probably do it.”
I don’t see how the lack of draft pick comp for the acquiring team doesn’t negatively affect his value.
But if they made such a move, I think Granderson would be far more likely to go.
25 million per year contracts are becoming more common now…..Cano will get one too
Tar, who cares about the cap? I wish I still had Jeff Mathis, No Doubt.
Hi blake, hope u and urs r well. No like Alomar at second.
Doesn’t the 189 include the whole 40 man roster? If so what is the approximate hit for the 15 minor league guys?
–
Yes the entire 40 is counted. It depends on who is on it. Minor league players get a minor league salary. Anyone who takes time in the majors gets major league minimum. If you have a split contract guy who starts out with a minor league deal but if he makes the majors he gets more than league minimum then you add together the pro-rated amount of what he made in both. I think given that you may need to use like 10-20 guys its probably safe to include 5-10 million to be safe.
Replacing a minor league guy with a minor league guy means the cost stays the same, but you also have to factor in guys who replace people on the DL. DL counts as a full salary, so in that case you’re doubling up salaries.
well i predicted cano is going to win the mvp this year and if hes having an mvp season there is no way he’ll be traded.
granderson would likely bring you back a really good prospect but probably nobody who would be much help vs. the cap in 2014
“granderson would likely bring you back a really good prospect but probably nobody who would be much help vs. the cap in 2014″
But he would help much quicker than almost any draft pick, and would be tradeable in a package for a upgrade that is closer to the ML or has a higher ceiling.
“25 million per year contracts are becoming more common now…..Cano will get one too”
Just to add, Francesa said today he thinks the Yankees will break their policy and work a new deal with him before the trade deadline, that he’ll be the new face of the franchise, etc.
I like Cano, and he’s an elite talent no doubt, but face of the franchise? He’s no Jeter.
Hey, blake, hey, Mark Belanger!
I have Thurman behind the plate for Dave Stieb! Ward and Henke are on standby with Guidry 25 and 3 too!
there are no more jeters. the yankees will go on and i agree with francessa that they are planning on making cano the new face after jeter’s gone.
“He’s no Jeter.”
Who is? (that’s rhetorical)
Cano, I’m so glad u got the chance to win. Best to U, mon ami!!!
Tony Fernandez is of course my, shortstop.
Oh, Jeter’s opt out penalty.
Well, if I am running the team there is no way I’m letting Jeter be a 24 mil hit on the payroll. They need to figure out something.
Damaso Garcia was great, a fine 2nd beeeman.
if jeter wants to come back, the yankees have no real choice but to pay him.
they can try to nibble down the aav by a few mil but that’s it.
jeter and the yankees are stuck with each other.
In centre, Devon White. George Bell, Barry Bonnell and the irrascibble Joe Carter in left. Jesse Barfield and his cannon in right. Gruber at third. Delgado at first.
Don’t forget about Dave Collins.
If he has good year and really believes they disrespected last time around…
i dont think jeter’s been carrying around a grudge since the last negotiation. and he realizes that he really has no place to go.
it may have been indiscreet for cash to tell him publicly to go shop the yankees offer, but even jeter knew he wasnt going to get enough more from anyone else to make it worth his leaving NY.
it’ll be the same thing this time. they need each other and they will work it out.
cano, jeter, granderson and hughes are all playing for contracts this year.
i like that!
it’ll be the same thing this time. they need each other and they will work it out.
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Hopefully they get him to accept his option and then work out an extension. I’d have to look at how that would work out luxury tax wise, but it has to be better than him opting out.
They may need each other, but if he goes from appearing to be a player in a steep decline to a aged wonder, the balance of negotiating power tips dramatically in his favor. Last time, he got no other offers. He could very well get some good ones this time.
And I don’t blame Cashman. There is no way he would say anything that wasn’t approved by Levine/Hal.
that would be nice but i just don’t see jeter coming off a solid year playing for $8M next year.
if he has a down year or is injured for a significant portion of it, then he might take it. but if he has a decent season, he’s not playing for $8M next year, imo.
there is no hometown discount of any kind in ny, in fact it’s a ‘hometown premium’ here.
“they need each other and they will work it out.”
He’s the antidote to the A Rod/PED mess.
that would be nice but i just don’t see jeter coming off a solid year playing for $8M next year.
if he has a down year or is injured for a significant portion of it, then he might take it. but if he has a decent season, he’s not playing for $8M next year, imo.
there is no hometown discount of any kind in ny, in fact it’s a ‘hometown premium’ here.
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They could extend him and give him a signing bonus. That would raise the 9.5 million he’d make to something higher.
Isn’t Jeter’s opt out number $3 mill, not $9 mil?
Isn’t Jeter’s opt out number $3 mill, not $9 mil?
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If Jeter opts out, the Yankees will pay the physical amount of 3 million dollars, but for 2014 they will have a luxury tax hit of 9 million dollars, due to the rules of the CBA.
Just curious, how is ther $9 mil calculated? The contrac is $51 mil for 3years with year 4 either a $3 mil buy out or a $9.5 mil player option.
Just curious, how is ther $9 mil calculated? The contrac is $51 mil for 3years with year 4 either a $3 mil buy out or a $9.5 mil player option.
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The contract is 17,16,15 million a year for 3 years with an 8 million dollar player option. If Jeter declines the option he gets 3 million dollars (essentially giving him 17 AAV).
Player options are guaranteed, so for luxury tax purposes his contract is valued at 17+16+15+8 = 14 AAV.
If he opts out, the Yankees will be assessed for 2014 the Buyout (3) + any over or underpaid luxury tax amounts that were avoided thanks to the player option. 17+16+15 = 16 AAV. So they avoided 2 million per year for 3 years. That means 6 million they were able to avoid thanks to the option. So 6+3 = 9.
This is to stop teams from putting in weak player options to drive the AAV down.
Got it, thanks!