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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Images from the first workout

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 13, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

This was techincally the second day of spring training, but it was the first time the pitchers and catchers got on the field together for a workout. There were bullpens and fielding drills and a little batting practice. Here are a few images from the day at Steinbrenner Field.

Associated Press photos

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226 Responses to “Images from the first workout”

  1. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    yankeefeminista February 13th, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Chip, but that is what I am saying. Yanks M.O. is to leave replacement level players in AAA. They finally moved Mesa up to AAA. Zoilo was still working on some things in AA, but could have been moved up. Flores and Austin moved up to AA at playoff time, but both especially Flores should have been moved up after the ASB.
    ———————-
    But that’s part of the problem isn’t it; that the Yankees aren’t willing to break from their old paradigms?

    Guys from A Ball are ready to play at AA and the guys at AA aren’t ready for the majors so we get rid of them to make sure we have roster spots at AAA for ML washouts like Fukudome.

  2. tomingeorgia February 13th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    It’s nice to see men on the field, playing a game for money and pride.

  3. Jerkface February 13th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    Guys from A Ball are ready to play at AA and the guys at AA aren’t ready for the majors so we get rid of them to make sure we have roster spots at AAA for ML washouts like Fukudome.

    But in this case they aren’t getting rid of Abe Almonte because of a washout, but because we have a legitimate roster crunch and Almonte simply isn’t that good?

  4. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    If you want to pare payroll then you need guys from within your system to play for you. I don’t know if the Almontes, Mesa, Joseph or Adams are ever going to be major leaguers, but I know that Dan Johnson, Matt Diaz and Juan Rivera no longer are. Giving them AAA roster spots might help you win AAA games, but who cares about winning AAA games?

  5. jacksquat February 13th, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    That can’t be Cervelli, his feet are on the ground.

  6. Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    “Giving them AAA roster spots might help you win AAA games, but who cares about winning AAA games?”

    I agree with this.

  7. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    How was there a roster crunch in the OF? Heathcott, Austin, Williams, Flores, those guys are ticketed for Tampa or Trenton.

  8. Zach S February 13th, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    Like the new batting practice hats. Those ones they’ve had since the mesh (which they’re close to here) were really bad. These are pretty nice.

  9. jacksquat February 13th, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    I think a white bill is a bad idea when you are playing on grass and dirt.

  10. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    Again, this is minor move – and it’s quite likely that it was a good move from a talent standpoint. But not from a need standpoint for the organization. Now, if you turn around and deal some of the other relievers on the 40 (Eppley, Ramirez, Rondon) for the RH 4th OF that they actually need then this makes sense. If not, then adding Kelley to this group seems silly, even if Abe Almonte was nothing more than organizational filler.

  11. yankeefeminista February 13th, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    Chip, you a preaching to the choir (and a vocal choir member at that), but the Yanks will have to adjust once they have all that elite talent close. If they don’t trust the kids at that point, it is an indictment of the Yankees, not the prospects. It was one thing when we were talking about Curtis et al… But Cash and Co. have to get over their simplistic equation that always assumes that vet > prospect, regardless of quality. Hopefully, they will trust the next wave.

    And as per your AAA lineup, Mesa should be the starting CF, not a COF unless Heathcott comes up mid season…

  12. yankeefeminista February 13th, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    *are preaching

    Nice pics, Chad!

  13. yankeefeminista February 13th, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    “Giving them AAA roster spots might help you win AAA games, but who cares about winning AAA games?”

    I don’t think that is the reason they fill AAA with over the hill/AAAA replacement types, but because they actually call those types up in the event of a need rather than the Mesa’s and Almonte’s of the world, unfortunately. Let’s hope that changes this year…

  14. Ghostwriter February 13th, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    Again, this is minor move – and it’s quite likely that it was a good move from a talent standpoint. But not from a need standpoint for the organization. Now, if you turn around and deal some of the other relievers on the 40 (Eppley, Ramirez, Rondon) for the RH 4th OF that they actually need then this makes sense. If not, then adding Kelley to this group seems silly, even if Abe Almonte was nothing more than organizational filler.
    =========

    Oy. Like you’ve said it’s a minor move. And adding some arms to compete for the bullpen slots is a good idea. Competition is good. Redundancy in the bullpen in case of injury is good. It’s a fine, albeit minor, trade.

  15. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    yankeefem – we’re talking about an organization that nearly traded Mariano Rivera for Felix Fermin because some in the front office didn’t trust Derek Jeter to replace an injured Tony Fernandez…I fear that Randy Levine (who is running the show) would’ve made that same call and there’s no longer a strong voice standing in his way.

  16. Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    Logan should have been traded already. He’s a FA, and Rapada is better v. LHH.

    Career v. LHH:

    Logan: .246 .317 .379 .695
    Rapada: .168 .257 .236 .493

    And Logan is an impending FA>

  17. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    yankeefeminista February 13th, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    “Giving them AAA roster spots might help you win AAA games, but who cares about winning AAA games?”

    I don’t think that is the reason they fill AAA with over the hill/AAAA replacement types, but because they actually call those types up in the event of a need rather than the Mesa’s and Almonte’s of the world, unfortunately. Let’s hope that changes this year…
    —————

    But they don’t call them up because it makes no sense to give those guys spots on the 40 man roster. Cust, Branyan, Fukudome – never saw the home clubhouse in Yankee Stadium and it’s likely that (if they don’t opt out of their contracts or make the 25) Diaz, Rivera or Johnson won’t either.

  18. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    Logan should have been traded already. He’s a FA, and Rapada is better v. LHH.

    Career v. LHH:

    Logan: .246 .317 .379 .695
    Rapada: .168 .257 .236 .493

    And Logan is an impending FA>
    —————–

    I think they’ll look at dealing Logan during the season depending on how Cabral looks in rehab.

  19. austinmac February 13th, 2013 at 9:38 pm

    I like a pitcher with a K per inning, but I am not sure if he gets a roster spot.

    I’ve never seen Almonte play, but his season last year was pretty good. Let’s hope they evaluated him properly.

  20. austinmac February 13th, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    I do note Kelley’s 28% ground ball rate. Not good for home games.

  21. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    Mac,

    I think Kelley (or Eppley) could open with the team if they decide not to carry a long man at the outset; I haven’t looked at the schedule so I don’t know if they’ll need a 5th starter early and if not, that guy could be the long man out of the pen. But more likely the pen shakes out with Joba, Aardsma, Rivera, Robertson, and Phelps or Warren from the right side.

    And if the Yankees do find themselves needing relief help during the year due to injury, guys like Montgomery and Kahnle could be beating down the door…anyway, like I said, I just hope it is a move that’s made to build depth to facilitate a trade.

  22. yankeefeminista February 13th, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    Kelley’s home-away splits aren’t pretty though.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/stats.....eason=2012

  23. Jerkface February 13th, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    How was there a roster crunch in the OF? Heathcott, Austin, Williams, Flores, those guys are ticketed for Tampa or Trenton.


    From Trentonian:

    As far as the minor leagues are concerned, Almonte’s departure creates a little bit of clarity. Stuck in an upper-level mix that included Thomas Neal, Matt Diaz, Melky Mesa, Ronnier Mustelier, Zoilo Almonte, Ramon Flores, Slade Heathcott, Adonis Garcia and Tyler Austin, there wasn’t a clear place for Abe to get the regular at-bats he needed to continue his development.

    Mesa, Almonte, and Mustelier should be getting the majority of the reps in AAA and throw in a veteran placeholder as well.

  24. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    yankeefeminista February 13th, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    Kelley’s home-away splits aren’t pretty though.
    ——————–
    Last year they were bad, but for his career he’s been pretty even

  25. Ghostwriter February 13th, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    yankeefeminista February 13th, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    Kelley’s home-away splits aren’t pretty though.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/stats…..eason=2012
    ===============

    Small sample.

  26. Jerkface February 13th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Last year they were bad, but for his career he’s been pretty even

    He is an extreme flyball pitcher, so there will definitely be a correction compared to Safeco if he pitches for the Yankees.

  27. blake February 13th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    The Dook flop is alive and well….might as well be a soccer match

  28. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    JF –

    I did forget guys like Neal and Garcia…

    The last line though – that’s what irks me. I agree that Mesa and Almonte should get regular reps; Mustelier though could DH or play 1b and still have Abe get regular at bats rather than give them to a “veteran placeholder”

    Anyway, it’s neither here or there. It’s a minor deal and I truly don’t think Abe is going to come back to bite the Yankees in the bottom any more than Erick Almonte did. To me it is more a question of whether the Yankees did this because they think all these other guys are ahead of Almonte or if it’s just the Yankees again sending a prospect away for a 28 year old middle reliever because the Yankees value veterans over prospects.

  29. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    Jerkface February 13th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Last year they were bad, but for his career he’s been pretty even

    He is an extreme flyball pitcher, so there will definitely be a correction compared to Safeco if he pitches for the Yankees.
    ————–

    Oh I absolutely agree.

  30. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    And for the record – I hope Kelley comes in and if he pitches for the big club he’s great. But I see a lot of guys ahead of him and some very strong young options behind him coming up fast.

    And (I know I’m a broken record) hopefully the Yankees can use some of the depth they have in relievers to get better in an area of need, be it the RH 4th OF or at Catcher if Romine’s not ready.

  31. Jerkface February 13th, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    Mustelier though could DH or play 1b and still have Abe get regular at bats rather than give them to a “veteran placeholder”

    But Mustelier would not be a 1B for the Yankees. He should be working at positions where he will actually get playing time.

    I honestly don’t think Almonte is the kind of prospect where you look at the trade and think the Yankees are scorning prospects. He wasn’t taken in the rule 5, he isn’t on any top 30s, he had an ok season in AA, he isn’t on the 40 man, he is a free agent next season which means they will have to put him on the 40 or lose him.

    A major league quality strike out relief pitcher is a great get for a guy that has no place in the Yankees future. The Yankees, like them or not, have bet on Melky Mesa & Zoilo Almonte over Abe.

    And while I don’t think the entire roster should be made up of reclamation projects, having some guys with MLB experience on a AAA roster is important and necessary. If not for the 25 man depth then for the benefit of the prospects at that level to see what a major leaguer looks like. As of right now AAA is going to be pretty prospect heavy for the Yankees. By midseason it could get even more so with Flores or Heathcott advancing.

  32. Jerkface February 13th, 2013 at 10:02 pm

    Kelley is more likely to play for the Yankees this season than Almonte would have been. And I think that would be true regardless of whether consider the Yankees tendencies for call ups. Mesa & Almonte are the guys.

  33. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    Cody Eppley for Jose Tabata?

  34. Ghostwriter February 13th, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    Jerkface February 13th, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    Mustelier though could DH or play 1b and still have Abe get regular at bats rather than give them to a “veteran placeholder”

    But Mustelier would not be a 1B for the Yankees. He should be working at positions where he will actually get playing time.

    I honestly don’t think Almonte is the kind of prospect where you look at the trade and think the Yankees are scorning prospects. He wasn’t taken in the rule 5, he isn’t on any top 30s, he had an ok season in AA, he isn’t on the 40 man, he is a free agent next season which means they will have to put him on the 40 or lose him.

    A major league quality strike out relief pitcher is a great get for a guy that has no place in the Yankees future. The Yankees, like them or not, have bet on Melky Mesa & Zoilo Almonte over Abe.

    And while I don’t think the entire roster should be made up of reclamation projects, having some guys with MLB experience on a AAA roster is important and necessary. If not for the 25 man depth then for the benefit of the prospects at that level to see what a major leaguer looks like. As of right now AAA is going to be pretty prospect heavy for the Yankees. By midseason it could get even more so with Flores or Heathcott advancing.
    ===========

    Really, really nice post.

  35. Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    The Knicks are a mess.

  36. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Jerkface February 13th, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    Mustelier though could DH or play 1b and still have Abe get regular at bats rather than give them to a “veteran placeholder”

    But Mustelier would not be a 1B for the Yankees. He should be working at positions where he will actually get playing time.
    ——————

    Well ideally I would like to see the Yankees do with Mustelier what they should have been doing with Nunez and Laird and that’s moving him all over the place so as to maximize his versatility as a bench player for the Yankees.

  37. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    A major league quality strike out relief pitcher is a great get for a guy that has no place in the Yankees future. The Yankees, like them or not, have bet on Melky Mesa & Zoilo Almonte over Abe.

    And while I don’t think the entire roster should be made up of reclamation projects, having some guys with MLB experience on a AAA roster is important and necessary. If not for the 25 man depth then for the benefit of the prospects at that level to see what a major leaguer looks like. As of right now AAA is going to be pretty prospect heavy for the Yankees. By midseason it could get even more so with Flores or Heathcott advancing.
    —————–

    And I agree with these two points.

    FWIW, I think Dan Johnson’s a nice pickup who could play a role if/when Pronk gets hurt.

  38. Ghostwriter February 13th, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Well ideally I would like to see the Yankees do with Mustelier what they should have been doing with Nunez and Laird and that’s moving him all over the place so as to maximize his versatility as a bench player for the Yankees.

    ————–

    Jack of all trades, master of none. Isn’t that what the Yanks did with Nunez–play him at a bunch of different positions?

  39. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    Ghostwriter February 13th, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    Well ideally I would like to see the Yankees do with Mustelier what they should have been doing with Nunez and Laird and that’s moving him all over the place so as to maximize his versatility as a bench player for the Yankees.

    ————–

    Jack of all trades, master of none. Isn’t that what the Yanks did with Nunez–play him at a bunch of different positions?
    ————
    At the ML level yes, in the minors they left him at SS. I thought that the smart thing to do with Nunez (and Laird) would have been to model them after Ben Zobrist.

  40. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 10:11 pm

    I mean, Nunez is incredibly athletic, but his defense at SS, 2b and 3b stinks so work him in the minors in the OF and maybe you have your right handed hitting 4th outfielder right?

  41. Shame Spencer February 13th, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    For Dickey and the Blue Jays, the Moment Is Now:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02.....&_r=0

    It was so much easier to like Dickey when he was on the Mets..

    Glad we have good numbers against him, however.

  42. jacksquat February 13th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    They don’t need Nunez as an OF. They need to see if he can be the next SS. That’s where they would get the most value from him.

  43. Shame Spencer February 13th, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    fem – Saw your post from the last thread, I was just pointing it out since whether or not either of the other FOers couldn’t play CF it isn’t much of a knock against them since I don’t think anyone but Grandy/Gardner will be out there. Hell, if both those guys went down (knock on wood, no injuries this year!!) I wouldn’t put it past them to use Ichiro in CF for a while rather than using anyone from AAA lol.

    ..I’m almost joking. Almost.

  44. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    jacksquat February 13th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    They don’t need Nunez as an OF. They need to see if he can be the next SS. That’s where they would get the most value from him.
    ———————-

    Yeah but until then he’s wasted as a utility inf/right handed dh for the next two years because he can’t field at most of the inf positions and he really doesn’t hit enough to be a DH. If you can add versatility to his repertoire while improving his defense at SS then you should do it.

  45. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    Non Yankee trade proposal:

    Mets get: Mark Trumbo
    Angels get: Jonathan Niese

  46. tucker February 13th, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    Is it just me, or in the picture above does the guy standing next to the fan holding a Mo jersey look like a short Cervelli? Didn’t know Biogenesis could take a few inches off your stature, too.

  47. Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    As long as Jeter is healthy, they will never find out if Nunez can play SS, unless he plays in the mL, and they don’t have the ML depth to do that.

  48. Chip February 13th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    If he’d stayed in the organization he’d have been destined for the same kind of secondary or tertiary role that Ray Kruml and Colin Curtis dealt with last season in Triple-A before they were released to make room for Mesa.

    This take does make me feel better about them dealing away Almonte.

  49. jacksquat February 13th, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    Yeah, if they think playing 39 year old Jeter for 150+ games is smart then Nunez won’t get a chance. I would start Nunez at SS vs every lhp. Time to bite the bullet.

  50. Chad Jennings February 13th, 2013 at 11:13 pm

    Sorry to just jump into this now, but I went out to dinner with a couple of other writers and just got back to the hotel. I was a little surprised to see folks upset about losing Almonte for Kelley.

    First off, it’s an incredibly minor trade. I’m not sure Almonte will ever play in the big leagues, and Kelley is a middle reliever who’s easily exchangeable.

    Almonte has some tools — mostly speed and an ability to play center — but he wasn’t an important part of the Yankees minor league organization. I’m not even sure he would have been a regular outfielder with Mustelier, Mesa and Zoilo Almonte likely going to AAA, and Flores, Heathcott and Garcia/Austin heading to AA. Abe Almonte is a guy who’s been around for a long time and finally had a solid season, but he’s not projected as part of the Yankees future. At best, he develops into Greg Golson. Obviously Golson had value, but the Yankees haven’t missed him.

    The Yankees basically swapped a guy who might be a pinch runner for a guy who might be able to fill a hole in the bullpen. Neither one is a must-have, but I’d much rather have pitching depth than position depth.

  51. Ghostwriter February 13th, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    As long as Jeter is healthy, they will never find out if Nunez can play SS, unless he plays in the mL, and they don’t have the ML depth to do that.
    ===========

    At this point, we don’t know if Jeter is still capable of playing short.

  52. Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    The team lacks patience with young players.

    It’s probably why they traded AJack, Melky, Montero, and IPK.

    I don’t see that changing, at least in 2013.

    But if they were going to be patient, I think Nunez has the most value as a supersub. He’ll make mistakes, but if they stick with him, I think they will be happy they did.

    But no matter where he plays, he is likely to make errors. The fans go nuts, and Girardi and Cashman probably do as well, at least based on how they have used him.

  53. Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    “At this point, we don’t know if Jeter is still capable of playing short.”

    That is why I said “if healthy.”

    I suppose it’s possible that Jeter will be healthy enough to hit but not play the field, but I will believe it when I see it.

  54. Ghostwriter February 13th, 2013 at 11:22 pm

    Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    “At this point, we don’t know if Jeter is still capable of playing short.”

    That is why I said “if healthy.”

    I suppose it’s possible that Jeter will be healthy enough to hit but not play the field, but I will believe it when I see it.
    ==========

    Fair enough. But it remains a distinct possibility.

  55. Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 11:23 pm

    GW

    We disagree. I think it’s remote.

  56. Nilsson February 13th, 2013 at 11:27 pm

    Sometimes it’s hard to believe Nunez has been playing since 2005 in the states; 6 years toiling in the minors before getting called up to the majors. That’s a long time, prospect-wise. Which leads me to say, what hell was he doing all that time?!?

    Anyway, last season the idea was to back up Jeter so DJ wouldn’t have to do so much of the heavy lifting at SS. It didn’t quite work out that way. It’s also incumbent upon Nunez to make it work, i.e. make the freakin’ routine plays.

  57. Ghostwriter February 13th, 2013 at 11:34 pm

    Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    The team lacks patience with young players.

    It’s probably why they traded AJack, Melky, Montero, and IPK.
    ==========

    I don’t think that the trade for Granderson demonstrates a lack of patience, per se. I think that it was a judgement that Granderson was prepared to fill a critical need for them defending the WS in 2010, whereas AJax wasn’t quite ready for them. In one sense you can call it a lack of patience, but I think that is far too simple a view. It was more of an intertemporal substitution, trading future production for to fill a critical current need. It was a tough tradeoff: We gave up a very good player in 2011-2014 for a very good player in 2010-2013.

    You can argue it either way over whether IPK and AJax for Grandy was a good deal (I’m pretty ambivalent about that trade, except for the fact that I really like Granderson). However, calling the trade indicative of a lack of patience is bit too harsh in my view.

  58. Ghostwriter February 13th, 2013 at 11:42 pm

    Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    The team lacks patience with young players.

    It’s probably why they traded AJack, Melky, Montero, and IPK.
    ===========

    OTOH, I think that you might have a point about trading Melky reflecting a lack of patience. If I had been in Cash’s shoes, I would have kept Melky and traded Swisher for Vazquez (assuming that I would have been willing to make that deal).

  59. Rich in NJ February 13th, 2013 at 11:43 pm

    “I don’t think that the trade for Granderson demonstrates a lack of patience, per se. I think that it was a judgement that Granderson was prepared to fill a critical need for them defending the WS in 2010, whereas AJax wasn’t quite ready for them. In one sense you can call it a lack of patience, but I think that is far too simple a view. It was more of an intertemporal substitution, trading future production for to fill a critical current need. It was a tough tradeoff: We gave up a very good player in 2011-2014 for a very good player in 2010-2013.”

    Granderson was coming off of a 102 OPS+ season, including hitting .183 .245 .239 .484 v. LHP in 2009. What about that speaks critical role?

    Sure, if you view any one move in isolation, it seems simple, When you view it in the context of a pattern of trading most of their best young hitting prospects in recent years, simple fades away.

    That intertemporality is now biting them in the rear, as some of us predicted it would in real time.

  60. Ghostwriter February 13th, 2013 at 11:51 pm

    Granderson was coming off of a 102 OPS+ season, including hitting .183 .245 .239 .484 v. LHP in 2009. What about that speaks critical role?

    ===============

    Classic Cashman trade for a good player coming off a down year (e.g., Swisher, Brosius). As I recall, we needed outfield help pretty badly that year, losing Damon and Matsui in the offseason. Moreover, the 2009 Yanks were beleaguered with a fairly nonathletic outfield.

    And trading a bag of balls for an All Star outfielder only “happens” in baseball blogs.

  61. Rich in NJ February 14th, 2013 at 12:03 am

    “Classic Cashman trade for a good player coming off a down year (e.g., Swisher, Brosius). As I recall, we needed outfield help pretty badly that year, losing Damon and Matsui in the offseason. Moreover, the 2009 Yanks were beleaguered with a fairly nonathletic outfield.”

    He got Swisher for basically for free (a bag of balls, as it were); a great trade.

    The Brosius for Kenny Rogers trade was made in November 1997; Cashman became GM February 1998.

    Coming off the 2009 season, a season when they scored 905 runs, it was apparent that some of their key players were about to reach ages when the chances of a decline were increasing, even though in 2009, they were still productive.

    That presented an excellent opportunity to begin showing patience to some of their best young hitting prospects because it was likely, unlike now, that their aging key players would still be able to produce enough to compensate for any adjustment period that guys like AJack might experience.

    Smart GMs plan for the future as well as the present, and 2010 was a golden opportunity to do that.

  62. Pat M. February 14th, 2013 at 12:33 am

    Rich in NJ. You’re points are very keen and I see your point well…. However I think the Front Office felt they had a solid shot at grabbing another Championship with Granderson added. Also as we know the club lost two lefthand bats and Curtis was and has remained an All Star CF. Now I wasn’t thrilled with the Nick Johnson pick over resigning Matsui but Cashman and Co. felt this trade gave them a shot at winning one more time with the core that was in place. 2012 I believe is the one that got away and now the deck is really stacked vs. them. And then of course there’s the Matt Holiday decsion. It’ll be interesting how things will look in 3 years or so when looking back on their decision not to trade Curtis and Cano this past winter. It could have reshaped the club moving forward.,

  63. Rich in NJ February 14th, 2013 at 12:50 am

    Pat M

    Thanks.

    As I said, when viewed in isolation, any one move can be justified, but it’s the pattern of trading their best prospects over the last few years (at a time when their key offensive players have been nearing vulnerable ages) that is troubling and is putting them at risk of going into a period of decline (at least in terms of truly being able to compete for a WS).

    We are hearing the same justification for their moves this offseason, and for why they can’t trade Cano or Granderson now, even though that would make a lot of sense if they are truly going to implement austerity. (Are we seriously going to finally develop Hughes only to let him leave as a FA?)

    That aside, although I think the idea that a franchise leveraging the future for “one more WS” is to embark on a slippery slope, it would be one thing, for example, if they had traded AJack in a package for a player of Holiday’s caliber.

    Instead, it was for Granderson, who was showing signs of decline both offensively and defensively, again, especially v. LHP. (btw, A few weeks ago, I posted a spray chart that demonstrated that he was already becoming waaay too much of a pull hitter even before he was traded to the Yankees.)

    Yes, Long (or something) was able to coach Granderson up for a period, but I don’t think that was foreseeable, and it hasn’t been enduring.

  64. tucker February 14th, 2013 at 12:51 am

    I see the turning point in the Yanks decision making after 2009. Hal got a World Series for George, then Hal seizes control and shuts off the spigot. If Cashman wants to make any major splashes from that point forward, he had to pay with prospects, not Hal’s cash.

    If the Yanks never made the Grandy trade and instead kept Austin Jackson, they could have developed their own prospects. AJax and Gardner could have been the lefty/righty platoon for CF. they could have signed Matt Holiday to a very reasonable deal and put him in left field. IPK could have been eased into the rotation.

    If Hal agreed to spend just a little bit longer, the Yanks could have realized Cashman’s vision of slowly incorporating legit prospects into the lineup while maintaining a championship-caliber club. But the FO refused to spend after 2009. At that point, Cashman no longer had the Steinbrenner checkbook. He had to trade prospects instead.

  65. Nick in SF February 14th, 2013 at 1:19 am

    Imagine how crabby we’d be if we had a really bad GM.

    We’re lucky, at least we have one of the better ones.

  66. Ys Guy February 14th, 2013 at 2:32 am

    what a bunch of crybabies.

  67. Rich in NJ February 14th, 2013 at 6:29 am

    I love irony.

    Damn, weird story about that guy they call blade runner.

  68. Triple Short of a Cycle February 14th, 2013 at 6:30 am

    A Good GM’s who has been in total control for over 7 years would be able to produce a number 2 starter

  69. blake February 14th, 2013 at 6:57 am

    If you’re thinking of sending a valentine to Girardi…..don’t bother….Stewie already has his heart

  70. Rich in NJ February 14th, 2013 at 7:07 am

    *cancels the candy he had bought for Joey G.*

  71. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 7:12 am

    Morning Blake-

    This season should decide the fate of both Joe G as well as Cashman.

    If the Team prospers they both get re-upped. If the Team flounders they’re gone.

    I still believe Hal wants to sell and that is the undercurrent that is driving everything else.

    If he doesn’t have the passion I hope he does. And quickly.

  72. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 7:19 am

    I still do not understand how the Yankees passed on guys like Chapman and Cespedes.

    A power lefty arm, and a capable ML-ready OF’er.

    :(

  73. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 7:24 am

    Just curious.

    Who believes that Young Stein will scrap 189 if the Yankees finish out of the money this year ?

    P.S. I don’t because I don’t think he he’s come this far to turn back. And yeah, I know he’s said he would but I’m not buyin’ it.

  74. Rich in NJ February 14th, 2013 at 7:32 am

    MTU

    I think the Yankees would have to crater this year for austerity to be scrapped. IOW, winning by losing.

    GM. I have an early meeting.

  75. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 7:40 am

    Rich-

    That’s my take as well.

    It would take a dismal season.

  76. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 7:40 am

    Time for the most important meal of the day.

    :)

  77. blake February 14th, 2013 at 7:50 am

    “This season should decide the fate of both Joe G as well as Cashman.”

    It may be….I don’t know if that’s fair….I would guess Girardis job is more in jeopardy than Cashman’s though if they lose.

    I actually expect them to hire a new GM and move Cash up to a president of baseball ops role soon….it’s a smart move that a lot of clubs are doing now….,having multiple GMs in the front office to diversify the thought process.

  78. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 7:55 am

    In Cashman’s case I think it’s plenty fair.

    Might be time for some new blood.

    Always thought Joe G.’s approach to Managing was way too “mechanical”.

    For me his fortes are his bullpen mgmt and steadiness.

    He’s matchup crazy like LaRussa. Needs to throw away the book more IMO.

    For a former Catcher he seems to lack “feel” for the game.

  79. blake February 14th, 2013 at 7:57 am

    Hard to argue with the results for Joe last year though….won 95 games and made the ALCS with a pretty flawed roster

  80. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 8:00 am

    very true Blake.

    But I’m more “Old School”.

    I’ll take a guy like Cox any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

    ;)

  81. Chip February 14th, 2013 at 8:05 am

    Blake -

    I’ve always thought managers get too much credit when things go well and too much blame when things go badly.

    End of the day it’s the players who won 95 games – not the manager.

  82. RadioKev February 14th, 2013 at 8:05 am

    blake February 14th, 2013 at 7:57 am
    Hard to argue with the results for Joe last year though….won 95 games and made the ALCS with a pretty flawed roster
    ———

    Yep. That flawed team was the best in the league. The Tigers were the team that overachieved in the playoffs, the Yanks underachieved. I’ll never quit on that one ;)

    I don’t know, we’d need to see a couple of failed seasons before Cashman or Girardi get the boot, I think. They’re not as sexy as what The Rays have, but I still wouldn’t trade places.

    And Girardi has a history of making his pieces work. I mean, besides winning a World Series, never missing a postseason, and having the best record in the AL last year too, he did good with what the Marlins gave him.

    The grass is always greener, even when you’ve got the best team in American sports history!

  83. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 8:05 am

    And I still sometimes wonder who gave AJ that “shiner” ?

    :)

  84. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 8:09 am

    I the Yankees flounder this season I’d expect plenty of changes.

    It would seem both necessary as well as appropriate.

    But since I want them to do well perhaps that won’t happen.

    ;)

    New thread ——>

  85. Bronx Jeers February 14th, 2013 at 8:11 am

    MTU,

    The other day I was watching a game from Aug 95′. Yanks are beating the Angels 7-0 in the 3rd inning and Sterling Hitckck gets in trouble. Showalter gets a righty throwing in the pen (it happened to be Mariano) and I thought to myself ” Girardi never does this”. He always seems to pull the trigger too late. Showalter was managing for the win today and Joe often seems to be managing with his eyes on tomorrow.

    I also think Girardis been blessed when it comes to the pen.

  86. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 8:19 am

    Bronx-

    Some of pitching moves were “curious” to say the least.

    Joe seems very good at distributing the workload though. That is one of his great strengths FWIS.

    Knowing when to pull the plug ? Not so much.

  87. MTU February 14th, 2013 at 8:20 am

    And yes, the Pen is terrific. But Joe gets credit for helping to build and manage it.

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