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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Saturday morning notes: Rivera feeling confident on the mound

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Feb 16, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

 

Very cool cell phone picture from my friend Erik Boland, who has the shot of the day with this picture of Mariano Rivera watching Andy Pettitte throw a bullpen this morning at the Yankees spring complex. It was the day’s main event; Rivera, Pettitte and CC Sabathia throwing their bullpens together.

For Rivera, it was his second official bullpen of the spring and the the latest test for his surgically repaired knee. But Rivera said he doesn’t think of each step as a hurdle, and he gains no peace of mind along the way.

“There’s no peace of mind where I say, ‘Ok, I feel good now,’” Rivera said. “No. I knew the job that I put in during the whole year, it’s been a hard job, and I always tell you guys that I trust myself. I trust God first, then I trust myself. I’m capable to do this. I was expecting this. It feels good. Everything feels good.”

At this point, Rivera said, there’s no doubt that he’s able to pitch. He’s going through a fairly standard spring training routine, only doing his work a little earlier and while wearing a small brace.

“If I’m looking for something, I will be looking for the games,” Rivera said. “The reason why is because you have to react there. Bunting. Comebackers. Cover first. All that stuff. You can’t think, you have to react. That will be, I would say, the biggest test.”

Pitching isn’t the biggest test?

“You know how to do that,” Rivera said.

• Francisco Cervelli said he spoke to the manager for Team Italy back in December. Cervelli wanted to make sure everyone involved knew that he was unlikely to play in the World Baseball Classic. The team wanted to put him on the roster just in case, but Cervelli finalized the decision before spring training. “I talked to the manager a few days ago and he understood the situation,” Cervelli said.

• Cervelli said the Yankees told him he could play in the WBC if he wanted, but Cervelli didn’t want to leave camp when he has a chance to win the everyday job. “This is what I’ve been looking for,” he said.

• Juan Rivera has arrived in camp. So has Gil Velazquez, who actually looks a little bit like Eric Chavez and has the locker right next to the one Chavez used the past two years. At first glance, it looked like Chavez was back with the team.

• There were some early batting practice sessions here this morning.

David Phelps (throwing to Cervelli), Nik Turley (Cervelli), Nick Goody (Bobby Wilson) and Juan Cedeno (Wilson) faced a combination of Cervelli, J.R. Murphy and Gary Sanchez.

On another field, Jim Miller (throwing to Chris Stewart), Adam Warren (Stewart) and Brett Marshall (Austin Romine) faced a combination of Francisco Arcia, Kyle Higashioka and Stewart.

• Today’s bullpens:

Group 1
Andy Pettitte (Murphy)
Mariano Rivera (Sanchez)
CC Sabathia (Arcia)

Group 2
Phil Hughes (Higashioka)
Hiroki Kuroda (Romine)
Dave Robertson (Sanchez)

Group 3
David Aardsma (Murphy)
Dellin Betances (Arcia)
Clay Rapada (Higashioka)

Group 4
Tom Kahnle (Romine)
Ryan Pope (Sanchez)
Shawn Kelley (Arcia)

• As I type this, the catchers are on the main field going through batting practice. They just went through a series of throwing drills.

Associated Press photo of Cervelli

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57 Responses to “Saturday morning notes: Rivera feeling confident on the mound”

  1. Ys Guy February 16th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    funny headline. if you’re mariano rivera, how can you feel anything but confident when stepping on the mound…

  2. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 11:36 am

    Betances did complain about getting pulled on several occasions when he felt he would have liked the opportunity to stay in and get himself out of trouble.

    I’ve been at a few of those starts, and it seems that, no matter how the kid is throwing (they’ve done this to Manny, too), if he’s at a certain pitch count they will just pull him, regardless of circumstances. Often, he’s regained a rhythm and has like a guy on 1st and one out (he’s always a groundball away from ending the inning in these cases), or he put a couple on and then whiffs two in a row and they won’t let him try and get the third out, stuff like that. Both Betances and Warren (at AAA when he opened up about it) both expressed dismay that they have not been allowed to work through trouble in the later innings if they’re near or at prescribed pitch counts, even if they’ve got a second wind and are throwing easy, or in Betances’ case, he’s refound the strike zone and looks poised to get out of a jam.

    I don’t see how this helps young pitchers learn to clean up their own mistakes or prove to themselves they can forge ahead and wriggle out of trouble. This is what great pitchers must learn to do, can’t live on stuff alone.

    Maybe we’ll see a more intuitive approach with Patterson casting about the system.

  3. Doreen February 16th, 2013 at 11:41 am

    I’d like to think there are/were valid reasons for pulling them due to pitch count, but how and when are young pitchers supposed to get the experience of getting out of their own jams?

    It especially seems odd since one of the reasons cited for bringing Hughes, IPK and Joba into the 2008 season was that they were all so dominant at the lower levels, they never had the opportunity to work out of situations and so it was difficult for them to develop that skill at the lower levels.

    Then you have Betances and Banuelos (unfortunately, I guess) getting into those situations, and it seems like you’re not letting them use those developmental opportunities.

  4. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 11:48 am

    Doreen,

    It’s always seemed like the pitching coach has no real say, they have an edict from above that they are done when they hit or near the bullseye.

    It’s one thing if a guy is laboring or just can’t throw a strike or is going to full counts or giving up consecutive hits (as opposed to dribblers or choppers the astute Trenton infield famously turns into “hits”), then it makes sense and even then, a gamer type is always going to want to stay in and see if he can get out of it.

    But there are certain situations where any pitching coach and manager worth his salt would intuitively get that they should let the pitcher try and take care of it. I don’t think they necessarily even have a say – it’s just a very quick walk out to the mound, not much talking…

    I think this also jacks up pitch counts, because the young pitcher knows when he reaches his limit he’s gone, so they probably start getting anxious, maybe start aiming the ball, that kind of thing.

  5. Ys Guy February 16th, 2013 at 11:51 am

    jap, i saw the other side of that with betances. after a couple of first inning walks, he got out of it and from the 2nd inning on, new brittain could not touch him, he was on fire. i saw some of the worst hacks i’ve seen in a baseball game and the NB guys were shaking thier heads on the way back to the dugout.

    but come the 6th inning he was in the showers.

    had to be a big come down to be so ‘in the zone’ and have to shut it down because of an arbitrary rule made by someone who is not even in the park when the guy’s pitching.

  6. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 11:55 am

    You know, just reflecting on it, I’d love to see Andy be miL pitching coordinator one day.

    Don’t know how he’d take to it, but because Andy is nails with guys on himself, I would imagine he wouldn’t get sweaty palms while young pitchers try and work through trouble; I bet Andy would encourage that and we wouldn’t see the early hooks, or at least, he’d let the PCs and managers work at their own discretion. He’s already just such a great influence on our young arms.

    Like Mariano, Andy trusts himself to get out of trouble. I’m sure he built that trust through experience.

  7. Tar February 16th, 2013 at 11:55 am

    MO…smh

    A lot of us complain and kvetch a lot because we care so much about this team.

    But just how lucky are we all to have gone through this “core 4″ era. It’s been an incredible run and I am going to cherish every last moment of it. Wish they had some more help this year, but I will never bet against them pulling it out.

    BTW I kind of hate the term “core 4″ I wish there was something better.

  8. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    YsGuy,

    I think that’s why he complained, he was probably very frustrated; it’s not like him to essay to sportswriters.

    I think they said something privately to him because he kinda wouldn’t take the bait after that. I do think Dellin has this “good citizen” thing in him – don’t want to say ‘to a fault’ because I just don’t know, but my gut is he could stand to be a little more ‘selfish.’

    I did overhear Cashman rave about Betances’ work ethic to a couple of scouts, just chit-chat down in Trenton. He added: “He’s nothing like Brackman,” whatever that means.

  9. Ys Guy February 16th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    its gotta be tough, these guys work and train year-round, they struggle, they ride buses, they sit and watch other guys play alot and it all becomes worth it on those rare occasions when they’re on the hill, everything’s working and he’s playing the opposing hitters like itzhak perlman but the whole time, you know theres only so many more outs till they pull you.

    of course there is a risk of injury and you can’t ignore that, but you also shouldnt be a slave to always erring on the side of caution.

    there has to be some real value in letting a guy who’s in ‘the zone’ really feel it and keep it going and just dominate for the rest of the game and let him walk off the mound while the opposition bat boys clean up the carnage his pitching wreaked.

  10. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    Sanchez catching Mo..?

    I don’t care if it’s just a BP session, that’s awesome.

  11. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    @BobKlap

    Why Kevin Youkilis will be a latter day Paul O’Neill http://j.mp/VX8WY0

    ———————

    Talk about apples ans oranges… O’Neill was in his prime when we traded for him.

    When Youk is repping this team at the All Star game, then we can maybe have this conversation.

  12. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    But just how lucky are we all to have gone through this “core 4? era.
    ///

    Tar,

    I have like a gazillion VHS tapes from those early years of the core 5 (hello Bernie :) ) to yet convert to DVDs. (I was a little bit tardy to the DVR revolution).

    I don’t even want to think about this being Mo’s last year (hope not) nor what life will be like A.D.J. I’ve been consciously watching the Yanks since the mid-to-late sixties, and yet, it’s so hard to consider that No. 2 just wasn’t always there… It was just so epic when the Scooter did his mime honoring that Jeter flip to Jorge to get Giambi at the plate… No offense to Bucky (whom I appreciated, and who worked very well with Willie) – and I once had high hopes for Andre Robertson – but the “royal” line just seems like it should go from Scooter straight to Jeter…and then to……????

  13. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    A lot of us complain and kvetch a lot because we care so much about this team.

    But just how lucky are we all to have gone through this “core 4? era. It’s been an incredible run and I am going to cherish every last moment of it. Wish they had some more help this year, but I will never bet against them pulling it out.
    __

    We may never be lucky enough to see the same success from a homegrown core, but the way they have been run in recent years, they are removing almost any chance of forming a new one, even if it isn’t nearly as good or enduring, and it seems like they learned nothing from the core that Stick developed.

    That’s why I complain.

  14. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    Sanchez catching Mo..?

    I don’t care if it’s just a BP session, that’s awesome.
    ///

    :D :D Not counting my chickens this time, though…

  15. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    JAP – I just like seeing Murphy and Sanchez getting time with those guys.. I dunno how likely it is but I’d love to see them push Murphy to AAA this year if Romine is in the bigs.

  16. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    We may never be lucky enough to see the same success from a homegrown core, but the way they have been run in recent years, they are removing almost any chance of forming a new one, even if it isn’t nearly as good or enduring, and it seems like they learned nothing from the core that Stick developed.
    ///

    It may just be that it takes an exceptional executive calling the shots to oversee a long range plan like that; one that has the stamina and vision to see it through.

    It dawned on me a while back that Chamberlain, for example, had the misfortune of being saddled with a pitching coach who really couldn’t help him achieve the next level, and that the latter’s mediocrity dragged Joba down. I’ve no proof, of course, but intuitively and based on how he’s responded to him, I’d say Rothschild would have pointed Joba in the right direction, had he been the PC back then.

    Cashman is not Stick Michael. We are stuck with Hal’s budget and Cashman’s vision, at least for now.

  17. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    And speaking strictly for myself, I’ve no intention of co-opting the pejorative terms directed at thoughtful people here who have run out of patience with Cashman, by those who can’t handle opinions and who would control commentary.

    “Complain” is a word used to try to dumb down what someone else has expressed, and usually not due to whether or not it was expressed thoughtfully and reasonably – mostly because it was expressed at all.

  18. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    JAP – I just like seeing Murphy and Sanchez getting time with those guys.. I dunno how likely it is but I’d love to see them push Murphy to AAA this year if Romine is in the bigs.
    ///

    Shame,

    These are two budding catchers who have a chance to be legit offensive contributors, so I couldn’t agree more. I would like, however, Murphy to be allowed to mature at his own rate. I do think, at some point next year, I may get to see a lot of Gary Sanchez. That is welcome :)

  19. RadioKev February 16th, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    Couple of unoriginal thoughts:

    If Hughes has a quality 3 ERA year the Yankees will resign him. RAB thinks he’ll possibly get a 5/$80m contract, which isn’t unreasonable. I think they could make that work. We also know that pitching is a priority for them, so it would just make sense.

    Youkilis could give us a quality year, but a Paul O’Neill comp is silly. Youk might bring some intensity, and he could give us a later-years O’Neill season, but come on. Optimistically, Youk could give us a .800 OPS type season. I still think it was foolish for the Sox to push him out of the organization.

  20. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    “It may just be that it takes an exceptional executive calling the shots to oversee a long range plan like that; one that has the stamina and vision to see it through.”

    They have only paid lip service to the idea with evanescent follow though.

    That’s why I am skeptical that Hal’s latest talk about prospect development is real, and even if it is, it’s hard to believe he will have the patience to see it through.

    Now, the defenders might argue that Cashman’s hands are tied, and maybe they are, but they want him to get credit for any success and no blame for any failure.

    “Cashman is not Stick Michael.”

    Every time he says what he learned from Stick, he shows that he learned nothing. E.g,, power and patience. Yes, that’s Stick. But in the absence of any AVG? No, that’s not.

    Plus, Stick was great at self-scouting. Which prospects did he trade that came back to bite him? I really don’t recall any. It’s not the case anymore.

  21. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    $16m Hughes
    $24m Cano
    $25m CC
    $23m Tex
    $25m A-Rod
    $7m Ichiro
    $17m Jeter

    I don’t see it.

  22. NYYanksFan February 16th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    “……..jokingly asking a few new teammates when A-Rod was going to show to take the heat off of him (Youkilis).”

    Weak.

  23. RadioKev February 16th, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    Imagine if we signed Cliff Lee. What the heck would we be doing then?

    I still think signing Cano with any sort of budget ceiling is a bad idea. Ties up our resources and we’d be carrying way too much risk.

  24. RadioKev February 16th, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    NYYanksFan February 16th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
    “……..jokingly asking a few new teammates when A-Rod was going to show to take the heat off of him (Youkilis).”

    Weak.
    ——-

    Even Joe acknowledged having A-Rod at camp would be a distraction.

  25. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Good luck getting equal value for a 30-year old left-handed hit tool, slugging, 2B who effortlessly turns the double play and who, regardless of the 2012 anomaly, hits both LHP and RHP.

  26. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    Plus, Stick was great at self-scouting. Which prospects did he trade that came back to bite him? I really don’t recall any. It’s not the case anymore.
    ///

    Rich, nothing comes to mind, but even if he did make a mistake or two, Stick’s like holistic medicine: an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”

    Cashman keeps trying to “cure” much of what could have just have been prevented from reaching a crisis point.

  27. J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    …and you know what some holistic doctors say?

    That, in some cases, the “cure” is worse than the disease…

  28. RadioKev February 16th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock February 16th, 2013 at 12:50 pm
    Good luck getting equal value for a 30-year old left-handed hit tool, slugging, 2B who effortlessly turns the double play and who, regardless of the 2012 anomaly, hits both LHP and RHP.
    ————

    At this point I’d prefer the pick over an extension. The pick has far fewer downsides.

  29. randy l. February 16th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    “Here’s the thing – it’s not a bad thing to try the new direction and it’s not even a bad thing to fail – success can grow from failure – you see something went wrong, try to ascertain what went wrong and possibly why, and then go about make corrections. It takes time.”

    doreen-

    i agree about failing sometimes being part of the process, but there’s a way to try and fail and learn and not sink the ship. hal is for all practical purposes a rookie at trying an austerity program. he’s never done it before , and he hasn’t been on the job in general that long. he was ok when he was continuing what had worked. he could paint by the numbers.all he’d have to do is just look at what they did last year and the year before and do it again.
    if you notice when they won in 2009 they signed sabathia, burnet, and teixeira. that was the formula that works for the yankees. throw in a melky , a hughes in the bullpen,add the core four, and there you are.
    an austerity program?
    hal has no clue . it’s a shot in the dark, and really naively ignorant. only someone as new as hal would even try it because it’s so stupid when you have the resources hal has.
    i’m doubling the size of my business this year. if you visit you’ll see it. i have a choice of adding all new work or ordering a larger variety of work from craft’s people and artists i already have and know sells. i can’t really fail if i continue with the crafts people i already have. i could fail with going with new people.
    so the smart veteran move is to play it safe and make sure the expansion works. then with the extra cash add new artists.
    hal likewise would be smart to play it safe as he transitions to a new business landscape. he should continue to rely on free agency to build the team while he creates a developmental program. hal’s rookie mistake is he’s actually counting on his new developmental program to work. it probably won’t. as you say he’ll learn from his failure.
    that’s great , but don’t bet the business on the experiment. hal is betting the yankees on his developmental plan. it will not work. no way. hal’s too new at it.
    hal’s only chance is to change his direction quickly when he realizes his austerity plan based on A ball kids isn’t going to work. the big question is will there be any worthwhile free agents when decides he needs help fast in 2014?

  30. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    At this point I’d prefer the pick over an extension. The pick has far fewer downsides.

    ——————-

    Really? You mean besides the fact that the pick might never materialize into big league talent? If we aren’t going to keep Cano the best option is a trade, not the pick. (FTR, I’m all for breaking the bank to keep him and not letting it hurt filling out the rest of the roster – but the second best option is def a trade over the pick. This team can’t be trusted with draft picks and a trade nets you ready talent, not potential.)

  31. Doreen February 16th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    JAP -

    Maybe Brackman was a bit of a prima donna? Or didn’t do extra work? Maybe Betances doesn’t make excuses and just keeps at it? I guess these are the things we all wish we knew.

    (Dirk Hayhurst’s books are chock full of this kind of insight. If you haven’t read them, they are worthwhile – he’s a good writer and has the perspective of a non-prospect minor leaguer.)

    As long as Cashman seems like he still has hope for Betances, that’s a good thing. I think Betances put a little pressure on himself last season after his quick cup of coffee in 2011. Think he saw the end of the tunnel, and wanted it even more. That’s the part that’s so easy to forget – the stuff that goes on inside a guy, no matter how talented, focused, or motivated, that moment where you experience your dream (get to pitch in the bigs, even for an inning) and realize how close you are ad you don’t want to mess it up. And then…you fret every time something goes wrong, thinking, darn, I don’t want to blow this.

  32. Doreen February 16th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    I think if the Yankees had signed Cliff Lee there would be no “Goal 189.” Perhaps if they had won the WS in 2010 or 2011 there would be no budgetary concern either. I’m not sure about if they had won last year.

  33. RadioKev February 16th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    Yeah Shame, but I’ve already resigned to the fact that Cano will not be traded. It’s not a possibility, unless the Yankees are out of playoff contention by the trade line – and I think that’s highly unlikely.

    I really don’t like the idea of a giving a megacontract to Cano for both budgetary/risk and performance reasons. Cano already has an uneven history of performing “in the clutch.” I’m not sure building a team around him is the best idea anyway.

  34. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    “Rich, nothing comes to mind, but even if he did make a mistake or two,”

    I don’t know who made the call, but the 1992 expansion draft cost them Ausmus, Hayes, and Everett. At the time, it was said that George wanted to protect Meulens and Maas, but it was on Stick’s watch so…

  35. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Kev – I just hate that they might limit themselves to a) extension or b) draft pick.. there are other options. They just require some chutzpah.

  36. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    @TylerKepner

    More Charlie Manuel, on his team: “Usually there’s ifs on teams every year. You gotta turn those ifs into exclamation marks.” #phillies

    ——————

    Lol, he’s gotta work on this analogy a little.

  37. Doreen February 16th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Randy -

    I don’t disagree that this is all new. I think Hal is depending upon what the people in the minor leagues are telling him. You hope they are being honest and not just telling the boss what he thinks he wants to hear.

    It sounded to me when I saw Jack Curry interview him, that Hal stressed that 189 is a serious goal but not written in stone and the more important thing is always to put a competitive team on the field. I believe him. Call me naive, but I really don’t think he wants to be the guy to destroy his father’s legacy. Change things up a bit? Sure. Can’t fault him for that.

    I do think they are subtly changing the goal for a season though. I don’t think it’s WS or bust any longer, despite the rhetoric. I think MLB (with the wild cards, parity, and other teams getting those lucrative tv deals) has changed and it really does mean a lot to win your division, and it really is a brand new season once you get to the playoffs. And I’ve never liked the idea that if they didn’t win the WS, in spite of having a fantastic season, the season was a bust. I never liked that at all. WS is icing on the cake to me, not the cake. But it IS such SWEET icing when it happens.

    Unless they’re lining up to sell, in which case, who the heck knows.

    Thing is if you look at the FA lists for the next season or two, there’s not a whole heck of a lot out there that you’d want to break the bank for anyway (especially if you consider that the best players will likely be retained by their own teams), so maybe this IS the time to stay away from the FA market? Stay away from the temptation to give contracts to the Carl Pavanos of the world.

    There are cycles, and they may very well be entering a down cycle and it won’t be fun to go through, absolutely not.

  38. RadioKev February 16th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 1:22 pm
    Kev – I just hate that they might limit themselves to a) extension or b) draft pick.. there are other options. They just require some chutzpah.
    ——

    Oh yeah, I agree. But from everything we’ve heard from Chad and the writers, there’s no indication the FO has considered it. We didn’t hear a single word about it in the offseason.

    It’s just good practice to take some calls about Cano. The Mets got a top ten prospect for Carlos Beltran for crying out loud. They could make it happen with Cano.

  39. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    “I don’t disagree that this is all new. I think Hal is depending upon what the people in the minor leagues are telling him. You hope they are being honest and not just telling the boss what he thinks he wants to hear.”

    There is almost no way that given the current state of their stars’ careers and the current level of development of their best prospects that they can credibly field a team that can win the WS every single year and integrate young talent on to the roster to fill important roles while shrinking the payroll to $170ish million.

    If that is what Hal is being told, someone is not being honest or is extremely incompetent.

    “I do think they are subtly changing the goal for a season though. I don’t think it’s WS or bust any longer, despite the rhetoric”

    The change won’t be that subtle.

  40. randy l. February 16th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    how the heck did the rays pull getting the top minor league player for shields who they had decided to trade anyway?

    http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/.....wil-myers/

    wow, rays fans get to watch another amazing young everyday player come up.

    how do the rays do it?

  41. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    Losing Cano for a draft pick is basically the worst thing ever lol.. this team hasn’t shown a ton of competency in the draft or on the side of development. With the way things have been going for us lately, we’d probably end up using the pick to get pitcher that gets relegated to the pen after getting TJS and a DUI.

  42. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    how do the rays do it?

    ——————-

    Trade their best players when they get too expensive (and are usually at their peak value).

  43. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    “Trade their best players when they get too expensive (and are usually at their peak value).”

    And, of course, be able to draft and develop young players, even in the later rounds.

  44. tucker February 16th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    The Yanks never really used their financial advantage to force prospect development. They did rush prospects in the rotation — Hughes and IPK with Joba transitioning to the rotation. A better approach would have been to sign Freddy Garcia types while allowing Hughes and IPK more time at AAA.

    They never really attempted to work their top position prospects — AJax and Montero — into the lineup. They could have started 2010 with a lefty-righty combo of AJax and Gardner in CF while signing Matt Holiday to a reasonable deal to be a LF/DH with Melky getting some time there, too. But Hal stopped spending on FA after 2009, and he made Cashman use prospects to acquire players such as Grandy, Vasquez and Pineda.

    If the Yanks signed one or two more FA since 2009, they would be in much better shape today for an austerity plan.

  45. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    “If the Yanks signed one or two more FA since 2009, they would be in much better shape today for an austerity plan.”

    Especially among the Cespedes, Chapman, Darvish types.

  46. Doreen February 16th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    They’re also still, remarkably, under the radar, the Rays.

  47. randy l. February 16th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    “And, of course, be able to draft and develop young players, even in the later rounds.”

    rich in nj-

    i have a litte “local knowledge” with what the rays planned with shields. i visited my rays connection last spring at a triple a game and was told to keep a close eye on archer who was pitching that night because the plan was for him to replace shields.

    flat out straight. a plan. a decision. no wait until the season is over. boom . done. shield’s is gone.

    can you see the yankees being this decisive and proactive a year ahead of time. the rays aren’t just bringing in the best young player in the minors up in wil myers, but they are bringing archer into the rotation too.

    there is a price for the yankees to wait till the guy plays out his contract. the yankees are paying it right now. had the rays kept shields they’d have no myers and no spot for archer.

    the rays are simply a much better run organization than the yankees. they get so much more bang for their buck.

  48. Rich in NJ February 16th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    randy

    The NY media has long said that NY fans don’t have the patience to watch a team rebuild, or sometimes, even develop players. Yet the two most successful NY metro franchises, the Devils and Giants, do it regularly. The greatest era of Yankee baseball in the last 50-60 years was the product of rebuilding.

    Ownership just doesn’t get it, or so it seems.

  49. Doreen February 16th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    randy -

    They may develop their pitching well, that’s obvious, but a better run organization? I’m not sure I’d go there.

    They also don’t have the mandate to win it all every year. It’s apples and oranges when you include the pressure of having to get to (and win) the WS every year. If the Yankees fulfill that mandate, it’s a parade down the Canyon of Heroes, a few appearances on Letterman, and then the griping starts anew. What have you done for me lately?

    If the Rays were to win a WS it would be received quite differently by its fanbase, by its media, by its organization.

    For the Rays, it is about being a contender.

    For the Yankees, it is about carrying on a legacy. So different.

  50. Doreen February 16th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    You can’t charge the prices you charge in NY and be a rebuilding team.

    The late 90′s dynasty and the first few years of the 2000s made this team and its fans focus on maintaining the high. At some point, you have to come down from that high.

    And it’s difficult.

    And frankly, I think no matter how the Yankees approach this phase, no one is going to be happy.

    When they were doing what they were doing, they weren’t thinking budget, because there was no id indication that they’d ever get a break on the luxury tax. So they weren’t going to be restricted. But they have a chance to get some of their own back, and I guess they figure they might as well at least try.

    They do have enough money so if they say screw it we can’t do this, they can recover. It might take a season, or two, but I don’t think they’ll be devasted.

  51. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    The question we need to ask is what generates the expectations? The organization? The fans? The media? Or the resources?

    I think the Yankees fall into some ‘perfect storm’ category.

    Teams with less resources, like the Devils (as Rich points out), are perennial contenders with a win or bust mantra. But there’s not much fanfare around it. Conversely, the Cowboys, a franchise worth more than the Yankees btw, doesn’t carry the same set of expectations annually.

  52. Shame Spencer February 16th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    “Listen man, I’m hitting everything, so I’m gonna tell you what I’m gonna do this time and see if you can stop it. You know you can’t stop it. You know you can’t stop this. You can’t guard me.

    “I’m gonna catch it on the left elbow, and then I’m gonna drive to the left to the baseline, and then I’m gonna pull up and shoot my fadeaway.”

    Maybe the best thing I’ve ever read lol: @Deadspin

    “I’m gonna tell you what I’m gonna do”: what it was like to guard Michael Jordan, according to Craig Ehlo http://deadsp.in/pfGgILS

  53. randy l. February 16th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    doreen-

    i think if you switched ownership and management, with hal owning the rays and cashman being the general manager, i think you’d see the rays go down the tubes in no time.

    on the the other hand , it’d be really interesting to see what friedman did as yankee gm with all that cash available.

    i don’t think there’s any doubt that tampa management is better than the yankee’s. the yankee’s big advantage is simply a cash account that’s probably ten times or more what the rays have.

    but hey, cash and capital matters so the yankees as an overall team are better, but their management is the weak link. yankee cash is the strong link.

  54. randy l. February 16th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    “And frankly, I think no matter how the Yankees approach this phase, no one is going to be happy”

    doreen-

    i’d be happy if they did either of two things: spend enough to honor to the yankees i grew up with or pull the plug and boldly start over.

    this mamby pamby wishywashy dumster diving and one year contracts is BS.

    i would watch a bold new start even if the yankees were in last place this year.
    this wishywashy approach has me already getting my baseball fix else where . i’m a baseball fan first and a yankee fan second. if hal wants me he has to do something worthwhile. otherwise i’m watching montero and myers once i’m done watching jeter and mariano.

    i think the yankees will lose at least 10% of their fans if the austerity program continues.

  55. Doreen February 16th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    randy l -

    They may in fact lose some fans.

    I don’t mind the dumpster diving. It does serve a purpose – it allows you to spend money where you should, and not overspend on stop-gaps and third-string players.

    I am scratching my head about where are they getting players to fill in roster in the future. Maybe the are going to go with whatever they have for a few years and see what happens. Who knows? Maybe everyone will get to see not-yet-ready-for-primetime-players playing in the Bronx. I’m still not sure about what I hear here in that regard – would this be a plus or a minus? Is this the bold new start?

    You’d have young hungry players instead of old hungry players.

    I just don’t want to flip out over all this. I think it bears watching. I think it’s going to take patience and time and a learning curve.

    But if they take this crash course in trying to get the development right – FORCING themselves to do it (because if cash is the crutch, they never have to do it quite right, do they?), then they come out of this stronger.

    They learn to do the development part better (if it is in fact a real problem or just a lohud perception), AND they still have cash. Perhaps at the end of the day, they learn to marry these two facets and then it will have all been worth it.

    Of course, we have no crystal ball.

  56. RadioKev February 16th, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    I didn’t like those record payroll mid-2000′s teams, so whatever. Do we actually miss those days?

  57. randy l. February 16th, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    “I just don’t want to flip out over all this”

    doreen -

    me neither, but i do really think hal is making a really big mistake with his simplistic austerity program. austerity programs do put some businesses out of business. the yankees are not immune to being in financial trouble. it could happen.

    but you are right that hal , because the yankees have so much cash,could reverse course suddenly if the austerity program doesn’t work and start spending again on a whim.

    cash is king. hal can always use it. unless he waits too long and revenues start to dry up. we’re in a world where businesses fold up in no time. of course there’d be a new owner. the yankee franchise is here to stay.

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