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Saturday morning notes: Mesa backs out of WBC

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 02, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Melky Mesa has told the Yankees and Team Dominican Republic that he no longer plans to play in the World Baseball Classic.

I was told that the Yankees did not encourage Mesa to back out — the team actually thinks Mesa would get a chance to play in the WBC and wouldn’t hurt his chances of winning a big league job – but Mesa seems to prefer staying with the Yankees and trying to take advantage of that opening in left field. In the past week, Mesa has apparently gone back and forth with the decision before ultimately deciding to stay with the Yankees.

Mesa has played well this spring. Yesterday he hit his second home run and stole his second base. He’s the only player in camp with more than one of either statistic. He also leads the team with four RBI, and he’s shown an ability to play both left field and center. It’s too early to have a great feel for who the Yankees might choose to temporarily fill in for Curtis Granderson, but so far, Mesa’s made a solid case.

Earlier in the week — a day after the Granderson injury — Mesa seemed committed to playing for Team Dominican Republic.

“If I (am) in the position to say yes, who wouldn’t want to play for their country?” Mesa said. “I just try to work hard. I can’t control the result. If the Yankees say (don’t go to the WBC), I stay. I just try to play hard. I can’t control what’s going to happen in the future.”

Turns out he could control his future, and for now, he’s decided to stay.

• Tomorrow’s travel roster to Fort Myers is predictably light on big leaguers. The most significant events will be here in Tampa where Andy Pettitte and Mariano Rivera are both facing hitters, and Phil Hughes is likely playing catch for the first time in two weeks.

• The only big league regular on tomorrow’s travel roster is — of course — Brett Gardner, who always seems to draw the short straw and travel. Gardner has embraced the role. Said he actually volunteered to make the trip.

• The Yankees are meeting with the Baseball Assistance Team (B.A.T.) this morning. Probably going to be a while before the workout gets started.

Mark Montgomery is scheduled to make his second spring appearance today. Also, Corban Joseph is scheduled to play second base for the first time this spring.

• Shane Greene, Dellin Betances, Brett Marshall and Mike O’Brien are throwing sides today.

• Corey Black is throwing batting practice, facing Walter Ibarra and Jose Pirela.

• Tomorrow’s sides: Cody Eppley, Jim Miller, Vidal Nuno, Hiroki Kuroda, Dave Robertson and Joba Chamberlain.

• Tomorrow’s batting practice/simulated games: Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettitte and Matt Tracy.

Today’s second string: C Kyle Higashioka, 1B Luke Murton, 2B Corban Joseph, SS Gil Velazquez, 3B Dan Johnson, LF Ramon Flores, CF Adonis Garcia, RF Tyler Austin, DH Francisco Arcia.

Today’s scheduled relievers: Clay Rapada, David Aardsma, Shawn Kelley, Mark Montgomery, Matt Daley and Francisco Rondon.

Tomorrow’s travel squad
Pitchers: Juan Cedeno, Preston Claiborne, Kelvin Perez, Branden Pinder, Ryan Pope, Jose Ramirez, Francisco Rondon, Josh Spence, Adam Warren, Chase Whitley
Catchers: J.R. Murphy, Austin Romine, Bobby Wilson
Infielders: Greg Bird, Cito Culver, Dan Johnson, Corban Joseph, Addison Maruszak, Luke Murton, Jayson Nix, Eduardo Nunez, Jose Pirela, Kyle Roller, Rob Segedin
Outfielders: Zoilo Almonte, Tyler Austin, Ramon Flores, Adonis Garcia, Brett Gardner, Melky Mesa, Ronnier Mustelier, Thomas Neal, Juan Rivera

TIGERS
Omar Infante 2B
Torii Hunter RF
Andy Dirks CF
Don Kelly 1B
Kevin Russo 3B
Brayan Pena C
Nick Castellanos LF
Danny Worth SS
Ramon Cabrera DH

Associated Press photos

Comments

comments

 

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123 Responses to “Saturday morning notes: Mesa backs out of WBC”

  1. blake March 2nd, 2013 at 9:33 am

    New Post———->

    blake says:
    March 2, 2013 at 9:32 am
    “How can one feel optimistic with hitting him cleanup vs righties with those numbers?”

    Again you have to have perspective I think…..he’s not going to be 2009 Tex again….he’s just not….he’s in decline…….but I do think he can hit some homers vs RHP and still be a good hitter vs lefties.

    Ideally he’d hit 6th or so in the lineup…..but they don’t have many hitters better than him right now unfortunately.

  2. Yankee Trader March 2nd, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Today’s scheduled relievers: Clay Rapada, David Aardsma, Shawn Kelley, Mark Montgomery, Matt Daley and Francisco Rondon.
    ————————————–

    Isn’t this possibly the 1st appearance for Kelley?

  3. Stoneburner - The Return of Wax March 2nd, 2013 at 9:38 am

    as JF said yesterday though…Rivera is hitting and if he does he will probably make it because he’s old and old trumps young

    ******

    yes, yes, because that is the same logic they used for going after Damon and Vlad – - – -

    Please – experience facing mlb pitching probably trumps players with minimal ab in the bigs – - –

    What a joke – - – -

  4. Yankee Trader March 2nd, 2013 at 9:43 am

    Have to go.

    Have a great day everyone.

  5. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 9:43 am

    What do you think about the young guys in ST so far Stone

  6. blake March 2nd, 2013 at 9:45 am

    “What a joke – – – -”

    I know you are but what am I

  7. Shame Spencer March 2nd, 2013 at 9:59 am

    “The only big league regular on tomorrow’s travel roster is — of course — Brett Gardner, who always seems to draw the short straw and travel. ”

    LOL maybe the reason the fans treat Gardner like a rookie (much to Chip’s annoyance) is because so does the manager!

  8. Shame Spencer March 2nd, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 9:43 am

    What do you think about the young guys in ST so far Stone

    ———————

    This new version of Stone only has the ability to think about what Jerkface has said and nothing more.

  9. Shame Spencer March 2nd, 2013 at 10:01 am

    WHO is that woman on Chad’s Twitter… :(

  10. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Shame Spencer March 2nd, 2013 at 9:59 am
    Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 9:43 am

    What do you think about the young guys in ST so far Stone

    ———————

    This new version of Stone only has the ability to think about what Jerkface has said and nothing more.

    ———————

    http://giflaugh.com/wp-content.....ughing.gif

  11. Chad Jennings March 2nd, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Shame Spencer March 2nd, 2013 at 10:01 am e
    WHO is that woman on Chad’s Twitter…

    My friend’s girlfriend made fun of my twitter picture by taking a similar picture of herself. So I decided to change my picture to the one she took. It’s totally random and probably confusing to everyone. Isn’t that what twitter’s all about?

  12. jacksquat March 2nd, 2013 at 10:14 am

    From what I could gather, that is Mark Carig’s gf?

  13. Shame Spencer March 2nd, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Chad, thank you for explaining.. I’ll take that as a sign you do not want my unruly, awkward advances to cease. ;)

  14. Shame Spencer March 2nd, 2013 at 10:19 am

    @cgrand14

    With #uicflames Softball after their first win of the season! pic.twitter.com/W84GLlPvsY

    —————–

    Curtis is just a nice guy. He’s a guy the old version of the Yankees wouldn’t have thought twice about hanging onto.. and batting 8th.

  15. blake March 2nd, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Sounds like Wang looked good

  16. Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 10:22 am

    It would be cool to root for Wang again.

  17. DONNYBROOK March 2nd, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Cashman being referred to as “Biden” on the Yankee Executive Level, tells you all you need to know. The dude’s been “F Trooped” and is a laughing stock to the suits that matter.
    Boras says he wants to conduct the Cano negotiations “on a submarine, not the Empire State Building”. Yea, and he is Trumpeting this to a NY Newspaper? HAHAHAHAHAHA

  18. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Tar/YT-

    Sorry.

    Try this :

    https://picasaweb.google.com/109721757058432487394/AFewLocalShots?authkey=Gv1sRgCIHDqb7ztv2xfw#

  19. RadioKev March 2nd, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 10:22 am
    It would be cool to root for Wang again.
    ——-

    I think most Yankee fans would agree. That guy deserves better.

    Excited for more spring training baseball on a lazy Saturday.

  20. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 10:46 am

    This is a smart move by Mesa to try to win a job. I couldn’t understand why he was going to the WBC in the first place, considering that he’s on the bubble for a Major League job.

  21. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 10:47 am

    DONNYBROOK March 2nd, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Cashman being referred to as “Biden” on the Yankee Executive Level, tells you all you need to know. The dude’s been “F Trooped” and is a laughing stock to the suits that matter.

    —————-

    How do you know this?

  22. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Mesa is very “toolsy” but is the hit tool good enough ?

    Or is he another just another Greg Golson ?

    A Rabbitt w. a glove.

  23. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 10:59 am

    MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Mesa is very “toolsy” but is the hit tool good enough ?

    Or is he another just another Greg Golson ?

    A Rabbitt w. a glove.
    ———————-

    I think that Mustelier is probably a little ahead of him at this stage of the game. I hope that the job goes to one of them while Grandy is out.

  24. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:01 am

    Ghost-

    I’m pretty confident that for now Ronnier is the better hitter.

    I also feel safe in saying that Mesa is the superior defender.

    Maybe we should clone them together and get one complete ballplayer.

    ;)

  25. tomingeorgia March 2nd, 2013 at 11:01 am

    Is Mustelier going to get any time on the infield? Heard he has in the past.

  26. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Mesa should spend some time w Kevin Long.

  27. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:03 am

    MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Mesa should spend some time w Kevin Long.
    ———–

    To increase the number of times that he strikes out?

  28. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:07 am

    This is the perfect opportunity for a youngin to make this team.
    With Granderson likely gone next year, the time is now.
    Could lead to a trade by the deadline for Grandy.

  29. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:08 am

    tomingeorgia March 2nd, 2013 at 11:01 am

    Is Mustelier going to get any time on the infield? Heard he has in the past.
    ========

    He’s played some third base in the minors, mostly last year at Triple A and at double-A.

  30. Shame Spencer March 2nd, 2013 at 11:09 am

    When did the Dutch learn baseball…?

  31. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Ghost-

    To take some of the excess motion out of his swing and make him more direct to the ball.

    That is exactly what he needs IMO. Too much wasted motion at the plate.

    Guess you are not a Long fan ?

    :)

  32. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:11 am

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:07 am

    This is the perfect opportunity for a youngin to make this team.
    With Granderson likely gone next year, the time is now.
    Could lead to a trade by the deadline for Grandy.
    ———-

    No doubt. Even if the Yanks give the job to Rivera coming out of ST, it would behoove a young player to make an impression to become the first option when Rivera fails.

  33. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:12 am

    MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Ghost-

    To take some of the excess motion out of his swing and make him more direct to the ball.

    That is exactly what he needs IMO. Too much wasted motion at the plate.

    Guess you are not a Long fan ?

    ===============

    No, I’m not a Long fan. I think that he screws up as many people as he helps. I was hoping that the Yanks would go in a different direction during the offseason.

  34. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Look at the excitement of the possibility of Mesa, Musty, Zoilo, etc… making the team then think of Heathcott, Sanchez, etc…when they are on the cusp.

    Some call it rebuilding.

  35. tomingeorgia March 2nd, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Mr. mick,
    I’d love to see it done.

  36. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:17 am

    The Granderson injury will be a blessing in diguise if Mustlier can come up and impress at the Major League level. This could free the Yanks to move Grandy at the trade deadline for some solid prospects.

  37. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Not sure you’d get all that much for Granderson as a half-season rental ?

    And that’s even if they would part w. him.

  38. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Mr. mick,
    I’d love to see it done.
    ===============
    Mr Tom,
    It will have to be.

  39. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:23 am

    It’s so much easier and hipper to discuss the negatives of an impending train wreck and seem omniscient then to hold out hope for the future.

  40. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:24 am

    No problem w. rebuilding as long as people keep their expectations set properly.

    Which for me does not mean expecting to produce another complete set of “core 4″.

    If we get 1 or 2 really good ones we’ve done well IMO.

  41. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:25 am

    It also makes for better conversation amongst for the followers.
    What I don’t get is the hugger who criticizes the direction yet loves the youth.

  42. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:26 am

    Which for me does not mean expecting to produce another complete set of “core 4?.
    ============================
    Did anyone expect the original core 4?

  43. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:27 am

    MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Not sure you’d get all that much for Granderson as a half-season rental ?

    And that’s even if they would part w. him.
    ========

    It would be a bold and risky move if the Yanks are in contention this year. Still, it would make sense to do it only if the players that we would get in return are unambiguously better prospects than what we would get with the compensating picks if Grandy signs elsewhere. I agree that it’s not terribly likely to happen, but having Mustelier and/or Mesa step up this year would facilitate considering the possibility.

  44. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:27 am

    and shouldn’t it be core 5 or does core 4 sound better?
    wasn’t bernie a member?

  45. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:28 am

    No Mick but that was sort of miraculous if you ask me. Just not expecting it again is all.

    If it happens we throw a big party.

  46. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:28 am

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:26 am

    Which for me does not mean expecting to produce another complete set of “core 4?.
    ============================
    Did anyone expect the original core 4?
    ========

    Gene Michael did.

  47. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:30 am

    No Mick but that was sort of miraculous if you ask me. Just not expecting it again is all.
    =======================================
    Nobody expects it to happen as the didn’t originally.
    Although this group has had more fanfare than the original core 4 or 5.

  48. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Stick was surely in fellow SS Jeters corner.

  49. raymagnetic March 2nd, 2013 at 11:33 am

    “Gene Michael did.”

    Nobody expected Mariano.

  50. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:34 am

    MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:28 am

    No Mick but that was sort of miraculous if you ask me. Just not expecting it again is all.

    If it happens we throw a big party.
    ——————————

    I don’t think that it would be miraculous to build an other core 4, or teams of the late nineties. None of those guys (Jeter, Bernie, or Andy) were truly “great” once-in-a-generation players. They were all very good players and very consistent players who played well together. This formula can be repeated if you have a bit of patience with the farm, and stop flushing prospects on trades for has-beens or overly aggressive pursuit of free agents.

  51. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Mick-

    I think some do. Maybe I’m wrong ?

    How bout a balanced 3-prong strategy:

    The Farm

    Trading

    Strategic acquisition of FA’s

    That’s what I hope happens.

  52. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Banuelos – bigger fanfare than Andy.
    Sanchez > Posada
    Heathcott > Bernie
    Montgomery> Mo…No?

  53. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:36 am

    I think some do. Maybe I’m wrong ?

    How bout a balanced 3-prong strategy:

    The Farm

    Trading

    Strategic acquisition of FA’s

    That’s what I hope happens.
    ===================
    MTU

    Like the sneaker…New Balance.

  54. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:37 am

    raymagnetic March 2nd, 2013 at 11:33 am

    “Gene Michael did.”

    Nobody expected Mariano.
    =================

    Actually, I seem to recall an article discussing Michael’s prescience on Rivera in particular. By the time that the playoff series in 1995 was over, it was pretty clear that the Yanks had an absolute gem in Rivera. The most amazing thing about Rivera has been his longevity and durability over the years. How often does a closer remain truly great for more than five years? I can’t think of a single one…

  55. blake March 2nd, 2013 at 11:38 am

    I read something about them almost trading Mo for Pedro

  56. raymagnetic March 2nd, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Ghost,

    Mariano was a failed starter turner all time great reliever. I don’t think Stick saw Nariano turning out that way.

  57. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Ghost-

    I have to disagree w you there. The “take’ from our Dynasty years Farm was exceptional in both it’s quality as well as it’s quantity.

    It is not a common occurrence IMO.

    It is not simply a matter of patience. It takes luck as well.

    You cannot reproduce luck.

    Over reliance on the Farm is just as much of a mistake as under reliance is IMO.

    It takes a Village, so to speak. A balanced approach balancing multiple elements FWIS.

    :)

  58. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:43 am

    I guess that I might have been mistaken about Michael and Rivera: http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....e-1.379086

  59. J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 11:43 am

    MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Mesa should spend some time w Kevin Long.
    ///

    Because Long is so good at helping our lineup not whiff at breaking balls…which is Mesa’s fundamental block from being a major leaguer? :D

    Mesa has tremendous power and crushes fastballs. The problem is, pitchers are just not going to throw him any once they see what a sucker he is for the soft stuff. I wish to God he could learn to lay off them and have a swing path that gave him a better chance against them, but this has been going on for a few years now.

    It’s a shame we don’t have a hitting coach who can seem to point him in the right direction, because he’s still a young guy. And if he could hang in there against curveballs, he’d be the team’s starting CF. He is the best defender in the entire system, at least above A-ball. Tremendous range, good reads, tremendous arm and acrobatic ability when it’s called for.

  60. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:44 am

    blake March 2nd, 2013 at 11:38 am

    I read something about them almost trading Mo for Pedro
    =========

    They almost traded him for Wells in 1995.

  61. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:45 am

    In some ways this new direction can be called bold and a major gamble.
    While age is inevitable, free agency alone is not enough to rebuild a dynasty.
    It certainly isn’t a given as seen in the recent past.
    Youth must be served.
    Hal must realize this and am sure his last straw was the Arod contract and he seems to have taken control of the team.
    If his plan works, he will be hailed a visionary.

  62. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 11:45 am

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:14 am
    Look at the excitement of the possibility of Mesa, Musty, Zoilo, etc… making the team then think of Heathcott, Sanchez, etc…when they are on the cusp.

    Some call it rebuilding.

    ——————————

    No one all those guys make it. it’s the nature of prospects. The reason why the Yankees are on such shaky ground is that the the haven’t gotten at least one steady reliable player from their series of waves.

  63. J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 11:46 am

    raymagnetic March 2nd, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Ghost,

    Mariano was a failed starter turner all time great reliever. I don’t think Stick saw Nariano turning out that way.
    ///

    perhaps not, but he knew he was special and that’s why he was so vehement against letting George get rid of him.

  64. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:46 am

    It’s a shame we don’t have a hitting coach who can seem to point him in the right direction, because he’s still a young guy.
    =======================
    Long does seem to have the “hairy monster” approach to hitting.

  65. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:47 am

    MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:41 am

    Ghost-

    I have to disagree w you there. The “take’ from our Dynasty years Farm was exceptional in both it’s quality as well as it’s quantity.

    It is not a common occurrence IMO.

    It is not simply a matter of patience. It takes luck as well.

    You cannot reproduce luck.

    Over reliance on the Farm is just as much of a mistake as under reliance is IMO.

    =====

    Luck is where preparation meets opportunity. You can make your own luck.

    I wasn’t preaching over reliance on the farm. I was talking bout a measured approach in player acquisitions.

  66. J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 11:48 am

    Zoilo is going to be an adventure, even if right, if he makes the cut. I’d prefer to see him work on his defense this season, and continue to develop his switch hitting; he could be a star in this league, so I wouldn’t want to be too cavalier with his development. Switch hitter with doubles speed and loft power, good arm, athletic ability… let him get his reps and learn to get better reads, then bring him.

  67. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:49 am

    No one all those guys make it. it’s the nature of prospects. The reason why the Yankees are on such shaky ground is that the the haven’t gotten at least one steady reliable player from their series of waves.
    ================================
    These are the beginning stages and we aren’t even looking at the highly touted prospects.
    Imagine when that wave hits the scene?
    LoHud will be in a frenzy praising Hal for his foresight and patience.

  68. J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 11:51 am

    Hey Ghost,

    We never got to finish our dialogue about Chamberlain-Nova. Don’t really want to revive it here necessarily, but I did want to point out to you, in case you never saw my reply (and we were kind of missing each other that day with the somewhat staccato discussion), to your point that Joba got as much of a chance at starting as Nova:

    Nova: 580 miL IP
    Joba: 88.9 miL IP (never returned to minors after 2007 – not counting his rehab last year, of course).

    Monumental difference in developmental time.

  69. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:52 am

    “Hal must realize this and am sure his last straw was the Arod contract and he seems to have taken control of the team.
    If his plan works, he will be hailed a visionary.”

    ========
    It isn’t clear to me that Cashman isn’t the one leading the charge on this new direction. I think that Cashman has long bristled at the charge that his success resulted fro the Yanks “buying championships”.

  70. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 11:52 am

    Not instead of no

  71. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:55 am

    It isn’t clear to me that Cashman isn’t the one leading the charge on this new direction. I think that Cashman has long bristled at the charge that his success resulted fro the Yanks “buying championships”.
    =================
    Can see your point altho he brought the hairy monster viewpoint to the forefront.
    It would go along with Hal’s attachment to his pursestrings tho.
    He likes to get value for his money.

  72. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 11:56 am

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:49 am
    No one all those guys make it. it’s the nature of prospects. The reason why the Yankees are on such shaky ground is that the the haven’t gotten at least one steady reliable player from their series of waves.
    ================================
    These are the beginning stages and we aren’t even looking at the highly touted prospects.
    Imagine when that wave hits the scene?
    LoHud will be in a frenzy praising Hal for his foresight and patience.
    ——————————————————

    But you’re under the impression that everyone in the highly touted wave will make it. They won’t. If they do then that’s great but it doesn’t work like that.

  73. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:58 am

    JAP-

    Does it seem to you that one of the possible reasons Mesa has trouble w the curve might be mechanical in nature ? That is is not just a problem w pitch recognition or the like.

    Because it does to me. All that bat bat waggle, timing mechanism or not, is useless IMO.

    Reducing that, and as you say redisigning his swing path should help.

    I think Long might be helpful in that area. He has done so w others.

    Some of it falls on the pupil as well.

    I want the Yankees to teach “situational hitting” though. If Long is not the Man for then we need another coach who can.

  74. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:58 am

    But you’re under the impression that everyone in the highly touted wave will make it. They won’t. If they do then that’s great but it doesn’t work like that.
    ===================================
    No. You are under the false impression that I am under that impression.
    I never said that…

  75. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 11:59 am

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:55 am

    It isn’t clear to me that Cashman isn’t the one leading the charge on this new direction. I think that Cashman has long bristled at the charge that his success resulted fro the Yanks “buying championships”.
    =================
    Can see your point altho he brought the hairy monster viewpoint to the forefront.

    ===========

    My biggest gripe with Cashman is the hairy monster philosophy. A close second is Cashman’s apparently quite literal belief that “you can never have too much pitching”.

  76. J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Long did a good job actually in helping Melky Cabrera drive the ball more from the right side of the plate, and of course he helped Granderson against LHP.

    But Cabrera has always beena able to handle the curveball, unlike the false Melky :)

    Would love to see MM in our outfield, though. He’s a remarkable, plus plus defender.

  77. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    My biggest gripe with Cashman is the hairy monster philosophy. A close second is Cashman’s apparently quite literal belief that “you can never have too much pitching”.
    ===============================
    I remember the years where we constantly heard Jeter and Andy in the post game griping over a lack of pitching, esp in the pre- CC days. Underemphasizing pitching is a mistake, that’s where it starts and ends.

  78. tucker March 2nd, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Musty really needs a legit shot to open with the team. This team needs offense, and Musty should be able to handle MLB pitching. I’d wager that either Rivera or Diaz are locks for the roster, but I could not imagine carrying both of these over-the-hill players will provide any spark of excitement for a fan base that craves one …. Personally, I’d like to see Zoilo and Musty be the duo, but I doubt they would ever toss two rookies out there.

    Musty is ready to go. He has looked adequate in tracking fly balls. He’ll certainly be no worse than Rivera or Ibanez in the field, and I like his bat better.

  79. jacksquat March 2nd, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Give me the guy who hit .353 in AA and .303 in AAA last year.

  80. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:58 am
    But you’re under the impression that everyone in the highly touted wave will make it. They won’t. If they do then that’s great but it doesn’t work like that.
    ===================================
    No. You are under the false impression that I am under that impression.
    I never said that…
    ————————————————————–

    You said “These are the beginning stages and we aren’t even looking at the highly touted prospects.
    Imagine when that wave hits the scene?”

    You’re not expecting them to get here and fail.

  81. J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 11:58 am

    JAP-

    Does it seem to you that one of the possible reasons Mesa has trouble w the curve might be mechanical in nature ? That is is not just a problem w pitch recognition or the like.

    Because it does to me. All that bat bat waggle, timing mechanism or not, is useless IMO.

    Reducing that, and as you say redisigning his swing path should help.

    I think Long might be helpful in that area. He has done so w others.

    Some of it falls on the pupil as well.

    I want the Yankees to teach “situational hitting” though. If Long is not the Man for then we need another coach who can.
    ////

    Lol I always call him Don Baylor down in Trenton. I think his swing is a big problem for him – too long, too loud, as you point out, not patient… he likes to swing :) This is a guy who can go to the plate and swing through 3 curveballs and sit down. Not a hit tool type. But he’s got just about everything else…

  82. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    You said “These are the beginning stages and we aren’t even looking at the highly touted prospects.
    Imagine when that wave hits the scene?”

    You’re not expecting them to get here and fail.
    ===============================
    Point being the excitement they will bring.
    Most fans cry for big name FA’s and sure things.
    Youngsters are a crap shoot but even the “minor” ones bring excitement and hope.

  83. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    True fans do like young players especially ones with talent

  84. Cashmoney March 2nd, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    I think both zolio and mesa would benefit from more seasoning in the minor. I think Mustelier can hit and field adequately, I can easily see Rivera and Mustelier opening the season with the Yanks.

  85. blake March 2nd, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    jacksquat says:
    March 2, 2013 at 12:03 pm
    Give me the guy who hit .353 in AA and .303 in AAA last year.

    If rather have the big league sure thing that hit .244 with a .289 OBP last year…..he has experience

  86. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    I don’t remember a crop of prospects as highly touted on the Yankees.
    As I said before:

    Banuelos has been more touted than Andy, Heathcott moreso than Bernie and Sanchez more than Posada, as well as Montgomery more than Mo.

    Not to say they will pan out, of course.

  87. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 11:51 am

    Hey Ghost,

    We never got to finish our dialogue about Chamberlain-Nova. Don’t really want to revive it here necessarily, but I did want to point out to you, in case you never saw my reply (and we were kind of missing each other that day with the somewhat staccato discussion), to your point that Joba got as much of a chance at starting as Nova:

    Nova: 580 miL IP
    Joba: 88.9 miL IP (never returned to minors after 2007 – not counting his rehab last year, of course).

    Monumental difference in developmental time.
    ==========

    On these statistics, I don’t have an argument. Clearly, Joba was rushed to the Majors. My point was simply that Joba was given ample opportunities to win a ML starting job, and he failed to do so, most notably in 2010. I think laying all of the blame for his failure on Cashman, Girardi, or Eiland is a mistake. Joba needs to own his own success or failure.

    Don’t get me wrong” I think that Cashman and Girardi made a terrible mistake putting him in the ‘pen in 2010; I would have demoted him to single A, and rebuilt him from scratch. They also made a mistake with Nova in demoting him in 2011 in favor of Hughes. Still, a player responds to this kind of adversity is telling. Nova fought back and forced his way into the rotation, and Joba kind of quit on himself. If Joba had made the most of his time in the ‘pen, and made the most of his opportunities when he got into games, he could have forced the issue. Instead, he was pretty mediocre.

    At the end of the day, I think that Joba was too immature in his early twenties to harness his considerable talent. Some guys take a little longer to mature than others. Now, at 27, he’s a little older and hopefully a little wiser. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see Joba put it all together this year. In fact, I fully expect him to do so. He could still be a terrific pitcher.

  88. MTU March 2nd, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    One thing the Minor Leagues and Springtime both have in common is that they both bring Hope and the a sense of renewal to things.

    :)

    Got to hit the bricks soon. It’s off to Zion NP for me.

    Have a good day. One filled w. hope.

  89. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    At the end of the day, I think that Joba was too immature in his early twenties to harness his considerable talent. Some guys take a little longer to mature than others. Now, at 27, he’s a little older and hopefully a little wiser. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see Joba put it all together this year. In fact, I fully expect him to do so. He could still be a terrific pitcher.
    ======================================
    If you consider his choice of mustache and incessant tweeting it might contradict your premise.

  90. J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Cashmoney March 2nd, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    I think both zolio and mesa would benefit from more seasoning in the minor. I think Mustelier can hit and field adequately, I can easily see Rivera and Mustelier opening the season with the Yanks.
    ///

    I’m running out, but I want to say I really strongly agree.

    The one I’d probably do a trial with though is Melky Mesa, simply because he’s already 26 years old and has been in our system for a very long time.

    He does have stretches where he actually cuts down his K rates and does better against offspeed, but he just doesn’t sustain them. He’s still young, but “old” in the system, and I don’t know if we have the right instructors to help persuade him to alter his swing and be more patient. He just never walks and Ks so much, it’s killing, because he has plus speed in his legs as well as plus bat speed. If he could ever find a way to get on base that isn’t crushing fastballs, in a consistent manner, he could also steal bases for us.

    So this might just be the best we can do with Mesa and might as well take advantage of his other tools – I can’t say enough about his defense, really, there aren’t enough superlatives..

    Zoilo, OTOH, really needs to work on his “D”. I don’t want to see his development get sacrificed for a quick fix. We did that with Melky Cabrera, and really retarded his switch hitting by doing so.

  91. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:13 pm
    I don’t remember a crop of prospects as highly touted on the Yankees.

    ———————

    Generation Trey says hi

  92. jacksquat March 2nd, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:13 pm
    I don’t remember a crop of prospects as highly touted on the Yankees.
    As I said before:

    Banuelos has been more touted than Andy, Heathcott moreso than Bernie and Sanchez more than Posada, as well as Montgomery more than Mo.

    Not to say they will pan out, of course.

    When Andy, Bernie, Posada and Mo came up we barely had internet and most were still not on it. There was not as much touting of anyone.

  93. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    My biggest gripe with Cashman is the hairy monster philosophy. A close second is Cashman’s apparently quite literal belief that “you can never have too much pitching”.
    ===============================
    I remember the years where we constantly heard Jeter and Andy in the post game griping over a lack of pitching, esp in the pre- CC days. Underemphasizing pitching is a mistake, that’s where it starts and ends.
    —————

    That cliche is not literally true. It has a lot of truth to it, but you can’t take it too far. I think trading away a bat that we needed (Montero) for adiditional pitching depth that we didn’t necessarily need (Pineda) was a manifestation of Cashman overemphasizing pitching at the expense of hitting. Cashman seeems to like stockpiling young pitchers, but I don’t see as strong an emphasis on developing young position players.

    Is pitching more important to winning than hitting? Yes. It is unquestionably true that pitching matters more than hitting to winning ballgames. Is pitching the only thing that matters for winning ballgames? Absolutely not. Hitting matters a lot if you want to win–you can’t win shutouts without scoring a run.

  94. blake March 2nd, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    “Got to hit the bricks soon. It’s off to Zion NP for me.”

    Marching to Zion :)

  95. Shame Spencer March 2nd, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Banuelos – bigger fanfare than Andy.
    Sanchez > Posada
    Heathcott > Bernie
    Montgomery> Mo…No?

    ———————————

    Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *breathe*…..HehehehahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Thanks mick, I needed a laugh this morning.

  96. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    Generation Trey says hi
    =================
    that was all hype and they were all pitchers.
    we need to rebuild with position players.
    they all won’t succeed but there seems to be more of an emphasis in that direction.

  97. Cashmoney March 2nd, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    have a good one JAP, i had almost forgotten Mesa is 26… I agree with assessment on both players.

  98. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Thanks mick, I needed a laugh this morning.
    ============================
    glad you got that off your chest.
    but no bwahahahah?
    think you missed my point…or took it out of context.

  99. Cashmoney March 2nd, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    your assessments…

  100. J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    My point was simply that Joba was given ample opportunities to win a ML starting job, and he failed to do so, most notably in 2010. I think laying all of the blame for his failure on Cashman, Girardi, or Eiland is a mistake. Joba needs to own his own success or failure.
    ///

    I’d say having developmental time is crucial to all those other things becoming relevant – and I regard “maturity” issues as a kind of gray area, especially in light of the kind of “schedule” they had him on in 2009 (his sophomore season as a starter), one that even peturbed Pettitte and Sabathia so much, they said no one could be expected to really thrive on 45 pitch starts…

    Any way, I do think Chamberlain was grossly mismanaged, so I don’t think this is a case of the player failing – in fact I think the Joba thing is a dramatic example of management failing a young pitcher, especially after his promising 2008, some of those starts were absolutely gems. The kind of management that hand waves that kind of ability needs to take a look in the mirror… or someone above them needs to replace them with more competent minds.

    Thanks for your response. Good to see you around, too.

  101. blake March 2nd, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    All prospects are more highly touted now because they are simply covered more than they used to be…..the Internet has allowed fans to actually know who these guys are whereas in the last you didnt

  102. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    and Joba kind of quit on himself. If Joba had made the most of his time in the ‘pen, and made the most of his opportunities when he got into games, he could have forced the issue. Instead, he was pretty mediocre.

    ———————

    The only way Joba was going to start again is if there were massive injuries in rotation. By massive I’m talking about CC all the way down getting hurt. Not doubting that Joba played a role in his short comings but there was no way he was ever repeat ever touching the rotation again.

  103. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:24 pm
    Generation Trey says hi
    =================
    that was all hype and they were all pitchers.
    we need to rebuild with position players.
    they all won’t succeed but there seems to be more of an emphasis in that direction.

    ——————————

    Generation Trey was not all hype they were further along than the Killer Bs were at that age. Their minor league stats speak for themselves

  104. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    and Joba kind of quit on himself. If Joba had made the most of his time in the ‘pen, and made the most of his opportunities when he got into games, he could have forced the issue. Instead, he was pretty mediocre.

    ———————

    The only way Joba was going to start again is if there were massive injuries in rotation. By massive I’m talking about CC all the way down getting hurt. Not doubting that Joba played a role in his short comings but there was no way he was ever repeat ever touching the rotation again.
    =======

    You’re the begging the question. You don’t know that. Hughes was demoted to the ‘pen in ’09, and was dominant in the role, earning himself another shot at the rotation. Joba could have done the same after his demotion.

  105. Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    “You’re the begging the question. You don’t know that. Hughes was demoted to the ‘pen in ’09, and was dominant in the role, earning himself another shot at the rotation. Joba could have done the same after his demotion.”

    Few people think the Joba/Hughes rotation competition in 2010 was truly open.

  106. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    Any way, I do think Chamberlain was grossly mismanaged, so I don’t think this is a case of the player failing
    ——————-

    We can agree to disagree on this. I’ll leave this one last thought. You can have bad teachers and bosses, but they aren’t the authors of your success or failure. I’ve gotten bad grades out of bad teachers and good grades out of bad teachers, and the difference between the two was always my level of effort.

  107. CompassRosy March 2nd, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    “How bout a balanced 3-prong strategy:
    The Farm
    Trading
    Strategic acquisition of FA’s”

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    This sounds familiar, as it is precisely what my team has been attempting over the last few years. It’s been a very slow process (due to the depths from which they started) that’s required equal parts talent evaluation, developmental prowess, patience and luck. Here’s hoping the payoff comes in the not too distant future… desperate to decent to dynasty is my new mantra ;)

    odd and exciting to see the M’s leading in all in HR and SLG – then Larry throws a wet blanket over me…

    @StoneLarry: Here’s a dose of reality: Only team with higher OPS than Seattle so far this spring is…the Houston Astros, consensus worst team in MLB

    Reminder of the fleeting nature of Spring :(

  108. Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    But why should it even been a competition? They had a lot invested in both guys (IPK too), yet they stuck with Vazquez and AJ even though they both had historically horrible seasons (81 and 82 ERA+’s, respectively).

  109. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    “You’re the begging the question. You don’t know that. Hughes was demoted to the ‘pen in ’09, and was dominant in the role, earning himself another shot at the rotation. Joba could have done the same after his demotion.”

    Few people think the Joba/Hughes rotation competition in 2010 was truly open.
    ———–

    We’ll never know, considering how bad Joba was that year. And my point remains that Hughes was a failed starter that earned another shot at starting by pitching well in middle relief.

  110. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Why is Francesa such a kiss-up for Ike Davis?

  111. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 2nd, 2013 at 12:26 ========

    PS– It’s nice to “see” you too.

  112. Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    “We’ll never know, considering how bad Joba was that year. And my point remains that Hughes was a failed starter that earned another shot at starting by pitching well in middle relief.”

    See my post above. The only reason Joba got less of a chance than AJ and Vazquez is money. Paradoxically, they are still paying for that mistake because they never got a true read on Joba’s ability to start despite their investment.

    I don’t think Hughes was a failed starter. I think he, like Joba, was the victim of poor handling. Be it luck, hard work, or their personal feelings about him, or some combination of all of them, he got another shot. They both should have.

  113. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    “I don’t think Hughes was a failed starter.”

    ————–

    I don’t see how that’s a matter of opinion. Hughes had been a starter who was demoted to the ‘pen, because he wasn’t particularly effective in the role. Regardless of how management handled him, there isn’t much dispute in these facts.

  114. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    I still don’t get the clamor over Joba not getting enough of a chance to start.
    His value has been so much greater as a reliever and there is no discussion there.
    He got his shot and many thought he couldn’t be an effective starter.

  115. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 12:31 pm
    Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    and Joba kind of quit on himself. If Joba had made the most of his time in the ‘pen, and made the most of his opportunities when he got into games, he could have forced the issue. Instead, he was pretty mediocre.

    ———————

    The only way Joba was going to start again is if there were massive injuries in rotation. By massive I’m talking about CC all the way down getting hurt. Not doubting that Joba played a role in his short comings but there was no way he was ever repeat ever touching the rotation again.
    =======

    You’re the begging the question. You don’t know that. Hughes was demoted to the ‘pen in ’09, and was dominant in the role, earning himself another shot at the rotation. Joba could have done the same after his demotion.

    —————-

    They were always going to start Hughes no matter what. The minute they put him in the pen in 2010 he was there to stay despite them saying it was just for that yr. To think they refused a deal for Haren over a 7th inning guy smh

  116. Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    “I don’t see how that’s a matter of opinion. Hughes had been a starter who was demoted to the ‘pen, because he wasn’t particularly effective in the role. Regardless of how management handled him, there isn’t much dispute in these facts.”

    There are superseding facts: a learning curve and a consistent innings load to build arm strength.

    Hughes’ IP

    2009: 86
    2010: 176
    2011: 74
    2012: 191

    That’s what I mean by mishandling.

    Developing starting pitcher is hard. It takes patience and often a willingness to accept failure.

    The Yankees’ win-now philosophy is used as an excuse to explain why they can’t do that.

    I think it’s counterproductive to fielding the best team possible over rolling five year time horizons.

  117. mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    The true test will be when Joba leaves the Yankees to start elsewhere…

  118. Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:51 pm
    I still don’t get the clamor over Joba not getting enough of a chance to start.
    His value has been so much greater as a reliever and there is no discussion there.

    ——————————–

    He started for a 1 yr and a couple of months which came out to 43 starts. If we judged Hughes and Nova on that same scale they are just as bad.

    Not really he has been ehhh as a reliever. What ppl are clinging onto with Joba the reliever is the small sample size he pitched in 07. They ignore how he was used perfectly. No back to back days until the end of the yr. If they got him up they used him. He didn’t come into the game with a runner on base until the end of the season.

    How valuable has he been since then?

    08 Barely used in the beginning of the yr because the Yankees didn’t have a lot of leads. At the end of the season he had no impact because he was coming back from an injury and the season was lost
    09 Hughes took the role and ran with it
    10 He was terrible the first half and Kerry Wood dominated in that role
    11 went down wth TJ, was ok in the role but Drob dominated in it
    12 Came back from TJ and the trampoline injury, was meh in the role and saw Drob dominate once again

  119. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    “They were always going to start Hughes no matter what. The minute they put him in the pen in 2010 he was there to stay despite them saying it was just for that yr.”

    =============

    You can repeat it as many times as you like, but you are assuming your conclusion. And lost in your repeated assertions is any explanation of why the Yankees would treat Hughes (and Nova, for that matter) in a fundamentally different manner than they treated Joba. Why was Hughes given a second look as a starter after his demotion to the ‘pen? Why was Joba deterministically sent to languish in the ‘pen? Until you can coherently explain the difference in these cases, you don’t have much of an argument.

    That fact is that I can pretty much guarantee you that if Joba is dominant as a middle reliever this year, then the Yanks will give him more opportunities. Joba might even be able to supplant/surpass Robertson if he performs at a consistently high level. I will concede that he probably has irrevocably lost his chance to start for the Yankees at this stage of the game. However, it isn’t at aclear that this was the case in 2010.

  120. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:51 pm
    I still don’t get the clamor over Joba not getting enough of a chance to start.
    His value has been so much greater as a reliever and there is no discussion there.

    ——————————–

    He started for a 1 yr and a couple of months which came out to 43 starts. If we judged Hughes and Nova on that same scale they are just as bad.

    Not really he has been ehhh as a reliever. What ppl are clinging onto with Joba the reliever is the small sample size he pitched in 07. They ignore how he was used perfectly. No back to back days until the end of the yr. If they got him up they used him. He didn’t come into the game with a runner on base until the end of the season.

    ===============

    You could see the chinks in Joba’s armor as early as 2007 in the way that he withered in the infamous “midge game” in Cleveland, and the way that he allowed himself to be dominated by Youk in their confrontations (I can’t recall if the Youk-Joba thing happened in ’07 or ’08). In these instances, Joba seemed to lack grittiness and fortitude to soldier on in adversity. I would have preferred to see more fight in him.

  121. Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    You’re blaming Joba for the midges? Really? That’s really unfair.

  122. Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    You’re blaming Joba for the midges? Really? That’s really unfair.
    ——–

    I’m blaming him for not overcoming the adversity. Yes, that’s on him. The guy at the plate that Joba was facing was trying to hit with midges in his eyes, which is a heck of a lot tougher than pitching, and he overcame the situation.

  123. crorkz August 5th, 2014 at 10:19 pm

    69UGfT Enjoyed every bit of your article.Thanks Again. Great.

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