Spring training Game 9: Yankees vs. Tigers
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 02, 2013 
Print This Post
| 
Email This Post
YANKEES (1-7)
Brett Gardner CF
Ichiro Suzuki RF
Robinson Cano 2B
Mark Teixeira 1B
Kevin Youkilis 3B
Travis Hafner DH
Matt Diaz LF
Jayson Nix SS
Chris Stewart C
RHP Ivan Nova (12-8, 5.02 ERA in 2012)
Nova vs. Tigers
TIGERS (3-4)
Omar Infante 2B
Torii Hunter RF
Andy Dirks CF
Don Kelly 1B
Kevin Russo 3B
Brayan Pena C
Nick Castellanos LF
Danny Worth SS
Ramon Cabrera DH
RHP Shawn Hill (11-2, 4.00 ERA in the minors in 2012)
Halladay vs. Yankees
TIME/TV: 1:05 p.m., YES Network
WEATHER: Temperatures in the 50s. Wind blowing from left to right.
UMPIRES: HP Eric Cooper, 1B Marty Foster, 2B Vic Carapazza, 3B David Soucy
TIGERS SPLIT: The Tigers are a split squad today. Most of their regulars are playing at home against the Pirates.
FAMILIAR FACES: Austin Jackson is staying in Lakeland today, but short-term Yankees utility man Kevin Russo has made the trip to Tampa.
WORTH WATCHING: This is your last glimpse at Robinson Cano and Mark Teixeira before they leave for the World Baseball Classic. … Leadoff man Brett Gardner has a hit in five straight games this spring. … Matt Diaz gets a turn in left field. He’s still trying to get his bat going in an effort to win a job (maybe even a regular job in April). … Corban Joseph has gotten all of his time a third base this spring. Today he’ll go to his more natural second base position. Dan Johnson, meanwhile, gets another turn at third.
UPDATE, 1:12 p.m.: Pretty quick and easy first inning for Nova. An infield single, but otherwise no base runners.
UPDATE, 1:13 p.m.: Another hit for Gardner. He’s looked great down here so far.
UPDATE, 1:20 p.m.: Gardner got to third with one out, but Cano’s sharp ground ball was kept in the infield — with the infield in — and Teixeira’s line drive was caught by the first baseman.
UPDATE, 1:36 p.m.: Nova has thrown his two innings. Here’s Aardsma. It’s still a scoreless game in the top of the third.
UPDATE, 1:53 p.m.: Another base hit and another stolen base for Gardner. Is he the leadoff hitter on Opening Day?
mick March 2nd, 2013 at 12:51 pm
I still don’t get the clamor over Joba not getting enough of a chance to start.
His value has been so much greater as a reliever and there is no discussion there.
——————————–
He started for a 1 yr and a couple of months which came out to 43 starts. If we judged Hughes and Nova on that same scale they are just as bad.
Not really he has been ehhh as a reliever. What ppl are clinging onto with Joba the reliever is the small sample size he pitched in 07. They ignore how he was used perfectly. No back to back days until the end of the yr. If they got him up they used him. He didn’t come into the game with a runner on base until the end of the season.
How valuable has he been since then?
08 Barely used in the beginning of the yr because the Yankees didn’t have a lot of leads. At the end of the season he had no impact because he was coming back from an injury and the season was lost
09 Hughes took the role and ran with it
10 He was terrible the first half and Kerry Wood dominated in that role
11 went down wth TJ, was ok in the role but Drob dominated in it
12 Came back from TJ and the trampoline injury, was meh in the role and saw Drob dominate once again
Call me crazy, as long as he stays healthy, I think Nova wins 15+ games this year… I think he bounces back nicely from a terrible year last year.
Smart move by Melky I think. He and Almonte are in a dog fight
Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 1:04 pm
“They were always going to start Hughes no matter what. The minute they put him in the pen in 2010 he was there to stay despite them saying it was just for that yr.”
=============
You can repeat it as many times as you like, but you are assuming your conclusion. And lost in your repeated assertions is any explanation of why the Yankees would treat Hughes (and Nova, for that matter) in a fundamentally different manner than they treated Joba. Why was Hughes given a second look as a starter after his demotion to the ‘pen? Why was Joba deterministically sent to languish in the ‘pen? Until you can coherently explain the difference in these cases, you don’t have much of an argument.
That fact is that I can pretty much guarantee you that if Joba is dominant as a middle reliever this year, then the Yanks will give him more opportunities. Joba might even be able to supplant/surpass Robertson if he performs at a consistently high level. I will concede that he probably has irrevocably lost his chance to start for the Yankees at this stage of the game. However, it isn’t at aclear that this was the case in 2010.
———————–
It’s not an assumption it’s what they did. In the exit interview during the WS Joba was asked if he was going to start then months later the traded for Javy and said there is a competition between Hughes and Joba. Yet when the competition took place no matter how Hughes performed it was always wind aided HRs and ignore the numbers he’s showing us everything we need to see.
Maybe they fell out of love with Joba. It happens in all sports. Players that are loved by organizations get pushed to the side when they don’t live up to their expectations. Many ppl in the front office get worked up just like fans. When a player bursts onto the scene they love them but when they don’t break out as fast as the thought then here comes the backlash.
If the Joba is smart and the Yankees give him an opportunity he rejects it w/o even thinking twice about it.
Just as long as one starts until Granderson becomes entrenched in LF.
still wish the Yankees traded Hughes for a bat. Nova and Phelps can handle the job. Warren and a Garcia type would do an adequate job. Yanks need a bat more than pitching depth.
For a franchise that prides itself on safe bets in the present, Hughes is still a safer bet to succeed in 2013 than Nova or Phelps.
There are reasons to trade Hughes, Granderson, and even Cano, but keeping them is part of what they are, for better or worse.
“It’s not an assumption it’s what they did.”
====
No, it’s your interpretation of what they did, and it’s based on your assumptions.
Why did the Yankee FO “fall out of love” with Joba but not Hughes? Are they really that capricious?
Two sharp, economical innings for Ivan. Nice to see.
If you could have Hughes or Nova for the next 5 years for the same contract, who would it be?
I’m taking Nova… Nova is probably more likely to bust than Hughes, but IMO he still has a much higher ceiling.
tomingeorgia March 2nd, 2013 at 1:26 pm
Two sharp, economical innings for Ivan. Nice to see.
===
What station are you watching it on?
Ghost,
MLB.TV
pkyankfan69 March 2nd, 2013 at 1:27 pm
If you could have Hughes or Nova for the next 5 years for the same contract, who would it be?
I’m taking Nova… Nova is probably more likely to bust than Hughes, but IMO he still has a much higher ceiling.
———
I really like both of them. I think that Hughes really came into his own last year in a big way. That clutch start of his against the Orioles last September told me that Hughes had finally arrived as a big-game pitcher. I think that Nova also has that toughness in him. I would hate to choose between them.
tomingeorgia March 2nd, 2013 at 1:29 pm
Ghost,
MLB.TV
——
Thanks. Sadly, they are showing the Marlins-Mets game in my neck of the woods.
You could see the chinks in Joba’s armor as early as 2007 in the way that he withered in the infamous “midge game” in Cleveland, and the way that he allowed himself to be dominated by Youk in their confrontations (I can’t recall if the Youk-Joba thing happened in ’07 or ’08). In these instances, Joba seemed to lack grittiness and fortitude to soldier on in adversity. I would have preferred to see more fight in him.
————————————–
Lol you’re blaming him for the midge game…really.
I’m blaming him for not overcoming the adversity. Yes, that’s on him. The guy at the plate that Joba was facing was trying to hit with midges in his eyes, which is a heck of a lot tougher than pitching, and he overcame the situation.
_
He was in his age 21 season, having pitched all of 97.2 mL innings as a starter, being thrust into a role as a ML reliever, pitching in his first playoffs.
That’s not on him at all.
The manager could have asked to stop the game. He was the experienced, savvy veteran.
To blame Joba in that situation is beyond unfair. It’s wrong.
I really like both of them. I think that Hughes really came into his own last year in a big way. That clutch start of his against the Orioles last September told me that Hughes had finally arrived as a big-game pitcher. I think that Nova also has that toughness in him. I would hate to choose between them.
——————————————
Yeah, I’m not trying to hate on Hughes. If healthy, I think he will be solid this year also. Hughes is certainly the more polished pitcher, especially in terms of commands, I just think Nova has the superior arsenal of pitches and more upside. If Nova even close to reaches the polish and command of Hughes, he will reach a higher ceiling. I’ve always been one to air on the side of upside.
Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 1:32 pm
I’m blaming him for not overcoming the adversity. Yes, that’s on him. The guy at the plate that Joba was facing was trying to hit with midges in his eyes, which is a heck of a lot tougher than pitching, and he overcame the situation.
_
He was in his age 21 season, having pitched all of 97.2 mL innings as a starter, being thrust into a role as a ML reliever, pitching in his first playoffs.
That’s not on him at all.
The manager could have asked to stop the game. He was the experienced, savvy veteran.
To blame Joba in that situation is beyond unfair. It’s wrong.
===========
You’re right. Joba isn’t responsible for anything. It was too much to ask him to throw his fastball for a strike against a guy with bugs in his eyes.
Ghost,
Watching online at MLB.com. Should have been clearer.
Why did the Yankee FO “fall out of love” with Joba but not Hughes? Are they really that capricious?
—————–
Hughes is the coaches’ son and he always has been. Cashman has been a supporter of Hughes since he drafted him. You can’t tell me there isn’t some type of double standard. Joba comes into camp in 2011. Reporters say he’s fat and Cashman makes a fat camp comment. Joba says it’s just muscle he added. He steps on the mound and he looks like he always has. Hughes comes into the same camp with added weight and Joe and Co say it’s just muscle he added on…Hughes is growing into his body. He has a tough season and mouths later they admit yet Hughes was out of shape this yr.
Tom,
Thanks! I should have thought of that! D’oh!
I love the competition for the LF and RH DH positions.
It spells at least a youngster to make the squad, maybe 2.
The Granderson injury could be a blessing in disguise.
Great first outing by Nova
Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 1:38 pm
Why did the Yankee FO “fall out of love” with Joba but not Hughes? Are they really that capricious?
—————–
Hughes is the coaches’ son and he always has been. Cashman has been a supporter of Hughes since he drafted him. You can’t tell me there isn’t some type of double standard. Joba comes into camp in 2011. Reporters say he’s fat and Cashman makes a fat camp comment. Joba says it’s just muscle he added. He steps on the mound and he looks like he always has. Hughes comes into the same camp with added weight and Joe and Co say it’s just muscle he added on…Hughes is growing into his body. He has a tough season and mouths later they admit yet Hughes was out of shape this yr.
======
Cashman was also a supporter of Chamberlain when they drafted him. I don’t see how this supposed “double-standard” evolved.
Didn’t Hughes get sent to fat camp one year during ST?
Anyone else think a Gardner-Ichiro top of order is outlandish?
Jeter to the 3 hole so far fetched?
Cano 4, Tex 5, Hafner/Youk 6?
That’s a top 7 that looks pretty good.
“You’re right. Joba isn’t responsible for anything. It was too much to ask him to throw his fastball for a strike against a guy with bugs in his eyes.”
So he either has responsibility for everything or nothing? That is really an unwarranted leap of logic.
To view it as what you called “chinks in Joba’s armor” for not being quite as sharp as normal in such a pressure packed game, as an inexperienced, underprepared kid, under conditions that no one could prepare themselves for, makes no sense.
You’re a good poster here, but that’s bizarre.
Hopefully Gardner just isn’t on a hot streak. This is good stuff.
Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 1:35 pm
Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 1:32 pm
I’m blaming him for not overcoming the adversity. Yes, that’s on him. The guy at the plate that Joba was facing was trying to hit with midges in his eyes, which is a heck of a lot tougher than pitching, and he overcame the situation.
_
He was in his age 21 season, having pitched all of 97.2 mL innings as a starter, being thrust into a role as a ML reliever, pitching in his first playoffs.
That’s not on him at all.
The manager could have asked to stop the game. He was the experienced, savvy veteran.
To blame Joba in that situation is beyond unfair. It’s wrong.
===========
You’re right. Joba isn’t responsible for anything. It was too much to ask him to throw his fastball for a strike against a guy with bugs in his eyes.
———————–
i had this discussion with someone else more than once over the past week or so. I have stated his short comings more than once. He gets the blame for the weight, the DUI, shaking off catchers, and being stubborn in some moments but the primary blame falls on those in charge. They failed Joba and they have failed in pitching overall. When the best pitcher you have developed is a 40 yr old potential HOF you’re still relying on that speaks volumes. When Andy is no longer here what will they hang their hat on?? Thank God for Drob if it wasn’t for him it would be a complete disaster.
Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 1:42 pm
“You’re right. Joba isn’t responsible for anything. It was too much to ask him to throw his fastball for a strike against a guy with bugs in his eyes.”
So he either has responsibility for everything or nothing? That is really an unwarranted leap of logic.
To view it as what you called “chinks in Joba’s armor” for not being quite as sharp as normal in such a pressure packed game, as an inexperienced, underprepared kid, under conditions that no one could prepare themselves for, makes no sense.
You’re a good poster here, but that’s bizarre.
==============
Rich,
I saw that game, and it looked to me that Joba didn’t want the ball. Maybe it was his youth, but it seemed to me a pretty clear lack of toughness on his part. Similarly so in his confrontations with Youkilis. I can’t imagine Clemens or Rivera allowing themselves to be dominated the way that Joba was dominated by Youk. He shrunk from the challenge in both cases. This is why I see these occurrences as early indications of chinks in his armor.
Joba seems to wilt when confronted with adversity, whereas Hughes and Nova seem to bear down and get tougher. That’s my point. Could Cashman have done a better job shepherding along Joba’s development? Yes. Still, the errors that Cashman made with Hughes and Nova weren’t deterministic, and they didn’t have to be so with Joba. Still, even if Cashman had done a better with Joba’s development, it is a really big leap to conclude that Joba would have been a wildly successful starter, because I can’t think of a time when Joba overcame any significant adversity. Joba is tough when things are going his way, but what you do when things aren’t going your way if what separates the wheat from the chaff.
Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 1:42 pm
“You’re right. Joba isn’t responsible for anything. It was too much to ask him to throw his fastball for a strike against a guy with bugs in his eyes.”
So he either has responsibility for everything or nothing? That is really an unwarranted leap of logic.
To view it as what you called “chinks in Joba’s armor” for not being quite as sharp as normal in such a pressure packed game, as an inexperienced, underprepared kid, under conditions that no one could prepare themselves for, makes no sense.
You’re a good poster here, but that’s bizarre.
—————-
No no no he was a 21-22 yr old kid in his first playoff game he should have had the stones to overcome that. C’mon kid man up
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports.....EeCjFFnANL‘
Here’s to Kelleher’s shortening of Nunez’s throwing motion leading to reduced throwing errors by Nunez.
Hopefully this adjustment will create a change for the better like Long’s adjustment of Granderson in mid-2010.
I think the Yanks are grooming Nunez to either succeed Jeter at shortstop or to be traded as an MLB-ready shortstop.
Anyone else besides me think Nunez could be a .280 BA, .350 OBP hitter capable of stealing 50 bases? I think he could be that. He has 38 career stolen bases in 46 stolen base attempts in 491 PA including 11 SB in 13 SBA in 100 PA last season.
How great would it be to have Nunez and Gardner in the 9-1 in either order?
According to the new CBA, major league veterans who sign minor league deals must be informed by March 26 if they will be on the Major League roster. If they aren’t, the team can either cut them a check for $100k to accept assignment to the minors or release them.
I mention this because I’ve always thought that the Yankees would take both Rivera and Diaz north to get a longer look at them – now I’m certain of it. The Yankees won’t want to lose that week of evaluation time.
I don’t agree with the decision, I think two of the group of Almonte, Mesa and Mustellier should go north, but I’m more certain now that it will be Rivera and Diaz.
Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 12:54 pm
“I don’t see how that’s a matter of opinion. Hughes had been a starter who was demoted to the ‘pen, because he wasn’t particularly effective in the role. Regardless of how management handled him, there isn’t much dispute in these facts.”
There are superseding facts: a learning curve and a consistent innings load to build arm strength.
Hughes’ IP
2009: 86
2010: 176
2011: 74
2012: 191
That’s what I mean by mishandling.
Developing starting pitcher is hard. It takes patience and often a willingness to accept failure.
The Yankees’ win-now philosophy is used as an excuse to explain why they can’t do that.
I think it’s counterproductive to fielding the best team possible over rolling five year time horizons.
—
He was injured in 2011, was he not? The last 3 years are pretty consistent if not for that. Kind of a deceptive argument there…
Duh Innings II March 2nd, 2013 at 1:58 pm
Anyone else besides me think Nunez could be a .280 BA, .350 OBP hitter capable of stealing 50 bases? I think he could be that. He has 38 career stolen bases in 46 stolen base attempts in 491 PA including 11 SB in 13 SBA in 100 PA last season.
How great would it be to have Nunez and Gardner in the 9-1 in either order?
—————-
His career OBP in the minors is .314 and in the majors it is .318 so no, I don’t think he’s capable of a .350 OBP.
And it would suck if Nunez is the regular number 9 hitter because that means Derek Jeter’s not playing.
Gardner is crushing
Joba seems to wilt when confronted with adversity, whereas Hughes and Nova seem to bear down and get tougher.
because I can’t think of a time when Joba overcame any significant adversity. Joba is tough when things are going his way, but what you do when things aren’t going your way if what separates the wheat from the chaff.
———————
Where was Hughes’ toughness in 09 when he was over throwing the ball and was replaced by Joba. Why didn’t he rise in 2008 when he was handed the ball every five days in the Yankee rotation. What about in 2010 when they were facing elimination and they needed a win to force game 7 against the Rangers?
In 500 ABs I think Nunie would hit about .275 with a .310 OBP and 8-10 homers….
Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 1:57 pm
Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 1:42 pm
“You’re right. Joba isn’t responsible for anything. It was too much to ask him to throw his fastball for a strike against a guy with bugs in his eyes.”
So he either has responsibility for everything or nothing? That is really an unwarranted leap of logic.
To view it as what you called “chinks in Joba’s armor” for not being quite as sharp as normal in such a pressure packed game, as an inexperienced, underprepared kid, under conditions that no one could prepare themselves for, makes no sense.
You’re a good poster here, but that’s bizarre.
—————-
No no no he was a 21-22 yr old kid in his first playoff game he should have had the stones to overcome that. C’mon kid man up
==========
Joba folded against the Indians in ’07. He folded against Youkilis. It’s not terribly surprising that he seems to have folded since his demotion in 2010, given his track record. Laying his lack of success primarily on the Yanks’ management requires ignoring that others (e.g., Hughes, Nova, DRob, etc.) have been successful under the same management.
Diaz strikes out looking against a LHP and Rapada gives up a triple to a LH hitter…two guys fighting for spots based on their ability to do one thing well and both failed in this regard.
Laying his lack of success primarily on the Yanks’ management requires ignoring that others (e.g., Hughes, Nova, DRob, etc.) have been successful under the same management.
———————————
I would call Drob a success can’t really call the others a success.
blake March 2nd, 2013 at 2:09 pm
In 500 ABs I think Nunie would hit about .275 with a .310 OBP and 8-10 homers….
——————–
Sounds about right.
I would say that Phil not living up to expectations in on both Phil and the Yankees. Hughes has, at times, not come into camp in shape and been fragile. However, as a prospect, the Yankees bubble wrapped Phil and, as I saw it described once in 2006, turned a big kid who could be a workhorse into Jaret Wright.
Russell who????
STEWIE!!!!
As for Nova, that’s another knock against the Yankees as an organization – not in terms of development but in terms of their ability to evaluate their prospects. Nova was left open to the Rule 5 draft a couple of times if I’m not mistaken. That he’s still a member of the Yankees is pure luck.
Announcer during Stewie’s at bat: “You’re not getting any power.”
Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 2:08 pm
Joba seems to wilt when confronted with adversity, whereas Hughes and Nova seem to bear down and get tougher.
because I can’t think of a time when Joba overcame any significant adversity. Joba is tough when things are going his way, but what you do when things aren’t going your way if what separates the wheat from the chaff.
———————
Where was Hughes’ toughness in 09 when he was over throwing the ball and was replaced by Joba. Why didn’t he rise in 2008 when he was handed the ball every five days in the Yankee rotation. What about in 2010 when they were facing elimination and they needed a win to force game 7 against the Rangers?
=================
Hughes has since overcome those failures, no? What about Joba? What has he done since he was demoted to the ‘pen 2010?
It isn’t hat Hughes is perfect and hasn’t failed. He has. However, Hughes kept battling and ultimately overcame his earlier failures. We’re still waiting to see if Joba can do the same.
Did Stewie just go yard? Did I see that right
However, as a prospect, the Yankees bubble wrapped Phil and, as I saw it described once in 2006, turned a big kid who could be a workhorse into Jaret Wright.
———————–
Which was a running joke on Mike and the Dog. They were taking their future ace and turning into a broke down pitcher smh.
blake,
Sure did, liner over the LF fence.
Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 2:12 pm
Laying his lack of success primarily on the Yanks’ management requires ignoring that others (e.g., Hughes, Nova, DRob, etc.) have been successful under the same management.
———————————
I would call Drob a success can’t really call the others a success.
========
I know. You need to ignore these successes in order to sustain your thesis. The fact that Hughes seems to be in line for a big payday in 2013 would seem to belie your assertion that Hughes has not been generally successful.
blake March 2nd, 2013 at 2:21 pm
Did Stewie just go yard? Did I see that right
—————–
When this pitcher gets sent to the minors I’m pretty sure Jim Leyland will point to that as why.
Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 2:20 pm
Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 2:08 pm
Joba seems to wilt when confronted with adversity, whereas Hughes and Nova seem to bear down and get tougher.
because I can’t think of a time when Joba overcame any significant adversity. Joba is tough when things are going his way, but what you do when things aren’t going your way if what separates the wheat from the chaff.
———————
Where was Hughes’ toughness in 09 when he was over throwing the ball and was replaced by Joba. Why didn’t he rise in 2008 when he was handed the ball every five days in the Yankee rotation. What about in 2010 when they were facing elimination and they needed a win to force game 7 against the Rangers?
=================
Hughes has since overcome those failures, no? What about Joba? What has he done since he was demoted to the ‘pen 2010?
It isn’t hat Hughes is perfect and hasn’t failed. He has. However, Hughes kept battling and ultimately overcame his earlier failures. We’re still waiting to see if Joba can do the same.
——————————-
Has he overcome them? Over the course of his career he has been inconsistent. Last season was good while the season before that was terrible. Is this the yr he has another good season or does he take a step back.
Chip March 2nd, 2013 at 2:19 pm
As for Nova, that’s another knock against the Yankees as an organization – not in terms of development but in terms of their ability to evaluate their prospects. Nova was left open to the Rule 5 draft a couple of times if I’m not mistaken. That he’s still a member of the Yankees is pure luck.
==================
Well, since nobody took Nova in the Rule 5 draft, it seems fair to say that nobody else saw him coming either. So, the Yanks were at least as good (or as bad) as their competition.
Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 2:23 pm
Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 2:12 pm
Laying his lack of success primarily on the Yanks’ management requires ignoring that others (e.g., Hughes, Nova, DRob, etc.) have been successful under the same management.
———————————
I would call Drob a success can’t really call the others a success.
========
I know. You need to ignore these successes in order to sustain your thesis. The fact that Hughes seems to be in line for a big payday in 2013 would seem to belie your assertion that Hughes has not been generally successful.
——————-
Not ignoring just not believing the Cashman rhetoric that they have had a lot of success. If what they have done is viewed as a success than what the Rays and Giants have done must be considered legendary.
Hughes is in line for pay day. He’s hitting the market at the right time and age and when there isn’t a lot of competition.
Hi people. Been trying to fix this #!@* audio system; did the Jays win?
“He was injured in 2011, was he not? The last 3 years are pretty consistent if not for that. Kind of a deceptive argument there…”
Let’s review:
2009: 86
2010: 176
2011: 74
2012: 191
So he has an injury right after his innings load jumps from 86 to 176.
You do realize that some think a big jump in an innings loads can predispose a young pitcher to injury, right?
Maybe you don’t. Or maybe you do, and you’re being deceptive?
Ghost,
Hughes hasn’t been generally successful based on expectations.
Phil was ranked as a top 40 prospect in 2005 and the number 4 prospect in the country in 2006. He should be in the same conversation as guys like Jared Weaver, Clayton Kershaw, Matt Cain, Josh Johnson, Jon Lester, Yovanni Gallardo and Jordan Zimmermann; he’s no where near there. He’s a mid to back of the rotation starter – closer to Jeremy Guthrie, Jason Hammel, Ricky Nolasco and Clay Bucholtz.
Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 2:25 pm
Chip March 2nd, 2013 at 2:19 pm
As for Nova, that’s another knock against the Yankees as an organization – not in terms of development but in terms of their ability to evaluate their prospects. Nova was left open to the Rule 5 draft a couple of times if I’m not mistaken. That he’s still a member of the Yankees is pure luck.
==================
Well, since nobody took Nova in the Rule 5 draft, it seems fair to say that nobody else saw him coming either. So, the Yanks were at least as good (or as bad) as their competition.
—————–
Not necessarily the case. Rule 5 draftees have to be on a big league roster for the entire season. It’s possible he wasn’t claimed because when he was made available teams saw talent but thought he needed more time in the minors; something they couldn’t offer him.
Not ignoring just not believing the Cashman rhetoric that they have had a lot of success. If what they have done is viewed as a success than what the Rays and Giants have done must be considered legendary.
Hughes is in line for pay day. He’s hitting the market at the right time and age and when there isn’t a lot of competition.
========
I don’t need to believe or listen to a word Cashman says. I don’t much care about Cashman one way or the other. I have eyes of my own.
‘Hughes is a favored son’
‘Hughes will get lucky in free agency’
As the saying goes, I’d rather be lucky than good.
Rich,
If I’m remembering correctly Hughes also came into camp in 2011 out of shape correct? That, as much as the jump in IP, was blamed for his injuries.
Hughes has said he could never get the leg drive to throw his curve the same way since the 2007 hamstring injury. That knee bucking curve along with FB command made him an elite prospect. That’s what has been missing and why he hasn’t reached his potential.
But the irregular innings load can have helped him maintain arm strength and with it, max velo (whatever that is for him) all season long.
If the question is whether Hughes will be here next year – I would say right now the answer is no.
Look at the contracts for Anibal Sanchez and Jeremy Guthrie – there’s no way the Yankees are giving Phil 5 years at $12m $15m/year.
Said it yesterday – I think the only potential free agent coming back to this team next year is Jeter. The rest (Logan, Hughes, Joba, Cano, Granderson, Youk, Kuroda, Andy, Rivera) will either retire or sign elsewhere.
They called it a dead arm at the time, which is often the result of an IP jump.
But that could have been co-factor, Chip.
Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 2:33 pm
Hughes has said he could never get the leg drive to throw his curve the same way since the 2007 hamstring injury. That knee bucking curve along with FB command made him an elite prospect. That’s what has been missing and why he hasn’t reached his potential.
But the irregular innings load can have helped him maintain arm strength and with it, max velo (whatever that is for him) all season long.
-=——————
If Phil hasn’t been able to recover from a hamstring injury suffered 5 years ago then that’s an even bigger red flag and another reason why the Yankees should let him walk after this season.
His injuries will only mount as he gets older.
As I said, the failure of Hughes to reach his potential is on both him and the organization.
Monty’s suspect fastball…
Kev,
He’s in there at 91 – that’s fine for this early in spring training. MLB.com said last year during the season he was sitting around 93.
Chip
Via RAB:
David Laurila of FanGraphs recently chatted with Phil Hughes … well, it was a really one-sided chat. Laurila asked Hughes about his repertoire and the adjustments he’s made through the years, and Phil basically went on to talk about his evolution as a pitcher since high school. Interestingly enough, he mentioned that his stride and other mechanical nuances haven’t been the same since blowing out his hamstring in 2007. Arm injuries are obviously the major concern for pitchers, but we often write off the long-term of leg injuries. Anyway, make sure you check it out. It’s well worth your time.
http://riveraveblues.com/2012/.....phs-72872/
Chip March 2nd, 2013 at 2:43 pm
Kev,
He’s in there at 91 – that’s fine for this early in spring training. MLB.com said last year during the season he was sitting around 93.
——-
Yeah, a couple extra MPH would help. That slider looks like it could neutralize lefties too.
Stewart with the homerun and the throw. Competition is a good thing
Rich,
I like Hughes, always have. When I say he can’t be called a “success” in pitching development by the Yankees I’m comparing him to the pitcher he was supposed to be.
If that failure is because he’s never fully recovered from the hamstring injury, so be it.
Thanks for the link.
Stewie having a good day…great throw there. Not the sharpest outing for Montgomery but he did flash some of those nasty sliders that guys just don’t pick up
Radio Kev,
Yeah I’m not worried about Montgomery’s fastball. I think that he and Kahne are going to be the closer/EIG combination in some order by 2015 and hopefully for a while after that.
blake,
That throw was from Higashi whatever. Was pretty, though.
Montgomery may have enough deception to get away with the lack of velo and movement…..but I think as he faces better competition that will spit on the slider more often I do wonder how he will adjust…..you can tell that he hides the ball well though…..guys don’t see his slider well at all
Flores doesn’t seem like a burner. Should have beat that throw.
tomingeorgia says:
March 2, 2013 at 2:49 pm
blake,
That throw was from Higashi whatever. Was pretty, though.
Pretty sure Stewart still in there
tomingeorgia March 2nd, 2013 at 2:49 pm
blake,
That throw was from Higashi whatever. Was pretty, though.
—————–
Nope, it was Stewart.
I have always believed Brett Gardner could use his exceptional defensive skills, ability to get on base, and baserunning to put himself in the conversation for MVP one year. If he can pull 15 balls over the right field wall in the course of a season and put up 65 rbi, he brings himself into the conversation easily if he can pair it with another 360-380 obp, 45+ steals, and gold-glove level defense in center.
Stew is out not but he made that throw I think
I remember all the superlatives thrown at the Yankees for not only drafting Hishioka but also for getting him to sign. Kid is an exceptional defensive catcher but has just never been able to hit as a pro. It’s a shame.
Sorry, guys, I’m a bit off the baseball thing today ( us dumb Canadians just can’t pay attention
). I’ve been trying to tell my friends here how lovingly intense ya’ all are! Tom, my audio system needs work!
Blake –
Stewart did make the throw – I just rewound to confirm.
Chip March 2nd, 2013 at 2:47 pm
Rich,
I like Hughes, always have. When I say he can’t be called a “success” in pitching development by the Yankees I’m comparing him to the pitcher he was supposed to be.
If that failure is because he’s never fully recovered from the hamstring injury, so be it.
Thanks for the link.
=================
I’m calling Hughes a success compared to Joba and most of the rest of the league. This really the only metric that matters, rather than some ambiuopus appeal to what could have been. BTW, Hughes was ranked #39 by Baseball America. Hughes seems to have done pretty well compared with some of those guys on that list.
Maybe I need a toke from the objective pipe, but Austin really does look like a player who could break with a lesser big league club…
Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 2:32 pm
Not ignoring just not believing the Cashman rhetoric that they have had a lot of success. If what they have done is viewed as a success than what the Rays and Giants have done must be considered legendary.
Hughes is in line for pay day. He’s hitting the market at the right time and age and when there isn’t a lot of competition.
========
I don’t need to believe or listen to a word Cashman says. I don’t much care about Cashman one way or the other. I have eyes of my own.
‘Hughes is a favored son’
‘Hughes will get lucky in free agency’
As the saying goes, I’d rather be lucky than good.
—————————
I’d rather be good therefore I succeed on my own not just hoping things fall in my favor.
Sorry about that, guys. My mistake.
“I’d rather be good therefore I succeed on my own not just hoping things fall in my favor.”
——————-
My point was that you seem to be ascribing Hughes’ success to an incredible amount of luck. Hughes isn’t in line for a big payday just because of lucky draw. Hughes is in line for a big payday, because he likely will be one of the best starters on the market. And you’re trying to discount that inconvenient fact.
CURRENT HALF INNING (LAST PLAY ON TOP)
Velazquez lined out to second.
Flores to second on wild pitch.
Flores reached on an infield single.
Unknown at first.
James McCann catching.
———–
Looks like I’m in the game at 1st base. LOL
RadioKev says:
March 2, 2013 at 2:59 pm
Maybe I need a toke from the objective pipe, but Austin really does look like a player who could break with a lesser big league club…
Looks very hitterish as they say…,mature approach
Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 3:09 pm
“I’d rather be good therefore I succeed on my own not just hoping things fall in my favor.”
——————-
My point was that you seem to be ascribing Hughes’ success to an incredible amount of luck. Hughes isn’t in line for a big payday just because of lucky draw. Hughes is in line for a big payday, because he likely will be one of the best starters on the market. And you’re trying to discount that inconvenient fact.
——————–
No I’m taking into account how things have played in his favor with his impending free agency. Remove the name Phil Hughes and show ppl his career starting stats and injury history and ask them how much is this guy worth on the open market. But if you put the name, his age, his 2012 season and hopefully a good 2013 on a market with not a lot of comp he comes out looking very well.
I’m not really not up on much today, but Bill Buckner was pretty fast down the line at one time. I’m sure happy ’bout that bouncing ball, Mookie and all
Mick, I’m totally with you (Gardy, Ichiro, Jeter, Cano…). Seems like a no brainer, especially against righties. Jeter had a great year leading off in ’12 but it’s a much different team offensively. They’re certainly making a case for themselves (to hit first and second) so far down in Florida!
Blake -
If it weren’t for the fact that the Yankees are fairly conservative (which is being kind), and the fact that the OF will be pretty set by the second half of the season I would say that Austin could be up by early August if he performs at AA.
Injuries could open doors for him – lord knows the Yankees could use a proficient right handed bat.
Incidentally, I didn’t realize until Stewart said something that the Yankees had hired Don Wakamatsu to be one of their development scouts. I like that and here’s why, he may not have managed a very good team in Seattle but he did manage a young team and has been a bench coach for good teams. I think he’ll be helpful in identifying players from the chum.
Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 3:26 pm
Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 3:09 pm
“I’d rather be good therefore I succeed on my own not just hoping things fall in my favor.”
——————-
My point was that you seem to be ascribing Hughes’ success to an incredible amount of luck. Hughes isn’t in line for a big payday just because of lucky draw. Hughes is in line for a big payday, because he likely will be one of the best starters on the market. And you’re trying to discount that inconvenient fact.
——————–
No I’m taking into account how things have played in his favor with his impending free agency. Remove the name Phil Hughes and show ppl his career starting stats and injury history and ask them how much is this guy worth on the open market. But if you put the name, his age, his 2012 season and hopefully a good 2013 on a market with not a lot of comp he comes out looking very well.
=================
First, you say that Hughes had more success than Joba because of unfair preferential treatment by the Yankees FO. Now, Hughes is in line for a big contract in 2013 because of a weak field. By your estimation, Hughes has been incredibly lucky in his career.
And you’re ignoring that the other teams would simply pass on him if he wasn’t very good, regardless of the competition.
OK, Tyler Austin would probably be the best hitter on the Astros. I’m not sure if that’s hyperbole…
Austin looks “hitterish”, too.
So does Joseph!
Austin can hit
Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 3:31 pm
Against All Odds March 2nd, 2013 at 3:26 pm
Ghostwriter March 2nd, 2013 at 3:09 pm
“I’d rather be good therefore I succeed on my own not just hoping things fall in my favor.”
——————-
My point was that you seem to be ascribing Hughes’ success to an incredible amount of luck. Hughes isn’t in line for a big payday just because of lucky draw. Hughes is in line for a big payday, because he likely will be one of the best starters on the market. And you’re trying to discount that inconvenient fact.
——————–
No I’m taking into account how things have played in his favor with his impending free agency. Remove the name Phil Hughes and show ppl his career starting stats and injury history and ask them how much is this guy worth on the open market. But if you put the name, his age, his 2012 season and hopefully a good 2013 on a market with not a lot of comp he comes out looking very well.
=================
First, you say that Hughes had more success than Joba because of unfair preferential treatment by the Yankees FO. Now, Hughes is in line for a big contract in 2013 because of a weak field. By your estimation, Hughes has been incredibly lucky in his career.
And you’re ignoring that the other teams would simply pass on him if he wasn’t very good, regardless of the competition.
—————————–
Not lucky but fortunate in some aspect. I said he was given more chances due to preferential treatment.
Chip,
He looks like he belongs now….just the way he takes pitches and how his ABs go….he’s not afraid to hit with 2 strikes…..impressed….easy to see why he’s had success
I can hit damn it, I had the Johnny bench batter up cemented in my suburban back yard!
Does Tyler Austin have the highest floor among all our prospects?
Mark Belanger was a premium S.S., and since blake was one and a catcher at the same time , he can have my action cards of Belanger and Bill Freehan too!
Does Tyler Austin have the highest floor among all our prospects?
–
Thats what the prospect lists say. He and Flores have a higher floor than Heathcott/Williams/Santana/Sanchez because of their advanced skills.
Against All Odds says:
March 2, 2013 at 3:40 pm
Does Tyler Austin have the highest floor among all our prospects?
I think he might….
Our third baseman Canuck, Brett, just trashed Russell!….dancing on the ceiling.
When asked about the outfielder vacancy Cashman mentioned Heathcott in addition to Zoilo, Musty, Mesa, Rivera etc…..thought that was interesting
Just don’t put that Juan guy in C.F..
Heathcott all the way! ( Reed Johnson will look after him
)
blake March 2nd, 2013 at 3:42 pm
Against All Odds says:
March 2, 2013 at 3:40 pm
Does Tyler Austin have the highest floor among all our prospects?
I think he might….
Jerkface March 2nd, 2013 at 3:42 pm
Does Tyler Austin have the highest floor among all our prospects?
–
Thats what the prospect lists say. He and Flores have a higher floor than Heathcott/Williams/Santana/Sanchez because of their advanced skills.
————————–
http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ff.....386800.gif
It feels like Cashman is hoping for Heathcott to rise like Harper and Trout. He basically pitched him to Francesa a few days ago.
Against, that being the case, I hope Heathcott crushes ‘em all!
You have to realize that Heathcott is 22. Most blue chip prospects his age are at AAA level or on the cusp of MLB. His main problem has been injuries. If true, it’s actually refreshing to hear Cashman include him in the current ST competition. I do think they need to be a bit more aggressive with the MiLB promotions when certain players are dominating their levels.
Last year was the first that Hughes really put it all together — durability, effectiveness and sustained results. He had a great start in 2010, but the wheels fell off toward the end of the year. In 2011, he showed up pudgy (really inexcusable) and had a dead arm — those combined to sink his results that year. Last year, he delivered … He really needs to improve last year’s results, and if he does, he will get paid. It’s an inauspicious start so far with the injury, but Imhopemthat is the Yanks being ultra cautious and that he is ready tomgomtomstart the season …. He really needs to put together another solid year.
Rihanna does a song called, ” Fly, “in which she says ( near the end ), ” Yankee Stadium with Jay’s and Kanyes’s ) – or,….something circumvec that!
P.S., its all about winning
Ready to go to start the season …
I hope it’s real and not a pump and dump.
Rich in NJ March 2nd, 2013 at 2:30 pm
“He was injured in 2011, was he not? The last 3 years are pretty consistent if not for that. Kind of a deceptive argument there…”
Let’s review:
2009: 86
2010: 176
2011: 74
2012: 191
So he has an injury right after his innings load jumps from 86 to 176.
You do realize that some think a big jump in an innings loads can predispose a young pitcher to injury, right?
Maybe you don’t. Or maybe you do, and you’re being deceptive?
—
I can’t be deceptive when I am posting your number set.
Hughes’ previous high was 146 innings in 2006, and it is generally thought you can go +30 over the previous high.
But this is pointless because certain people on here have their mind made up.
I don’t know why people go to a restaurant where they don’t like half the food, think the wait staff sucks, the management is incompetent, and the ownership is cheap and doesn’t really care about owning a restaurant.
Tucker, ” Closer to the Edge, ” is certainly fine. Vinyl, I have.
I don’t know why people go to a restaurant where they don’t like half the food, think the wait staff sucks, the management is incompetent, and the ownership is cheap and doesn’t really care about owning a restaurant.
–
Because baseball teams aren’t restaurants.
Sorry, ” Closer to the Edge, ” Close to the Edge, “…same thang!
@BryanHoch
Two Yanks injury updates – Slade Heathcott sprained thumb, Boone Logan sore elbow
JF, I overpaid like u can’t believe on Friday. If it wasn’t for my daughter I would have left.
Well, Logan had a nice little end to his Yankee career.
Oh, Slade…