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Teixiera to miss 8-10 weeks with strained wrist

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 06, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

The situation just keeps getting worse for the Yankees dwindling lineup.

Mark Teixeira’s injury is more severe than originally hoped. Instead of eight to 10 days, Teixeira will miss eight to 10 weeks with a strained right wrist. He will sit out the next four weeks with no activity before beginning a rehab program. General manager Brian Cashman said there will be no surgery.

It’s the latest blow to a team that’s already lost Curtis Granderson to a broken forearm. Those two are actually expected to return at roughly the same time. Early May seems to be a good guess. Of the eight Yankees who hit more than 15 home runs last season, only one — Robinson Cano — is both healthy and still on the Yankees roster.

As for how to fill the hole at first base, the Yankees aren’t sure.

• Both Cashman and Joe Girardi downplayed the idea of moving Kevin Youkilis to first base. Youkilis has been a good defensive first baseman in the past, but Cashman believes it would be harder to find a third baseman than a first baseman (the Yankees are still hesitant to use Eduardo Nunez at third).

• Travis Hafner is not an option. Cashman said he knew what he was getting when he signed Hafner, and what he was getting didn’t include a glove. Hafner is here to DH, and only DH.

• Juan Rivera played first base for the Dodgers last season, and Girardi indicated that he could be an option in some capacity, but Cashman said he thinks of Rivera primarily as an outfielder.

• Dan Johnson has spent significant time at first base, and Girardi said he’ll likely give Johnson more first base starts through the rest of spring training. The Yankees originally wanted to test Johnson at third, but it seems first has become the priority with him.

• As always, Cashman said he’ll keep looking for players being discarded from other teams, but he cautioned that this time of year, it’s hard to find true impact players. Teams are usually looking to dump their garbage, not making a significant move.

Associated Press photo

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233 Responses to “Teixiera to miss 8-10 weeks with strained wrist”

  1. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    As mentioned on the prior thread, if this is Bautista-like, get the surgery now.

  2. Shame Spencer March 6th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    No worries, guys… there are no games tomorrow.

  3. Shame Spencer March 6th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    If this is anything like Bautista they need to get him in an operating room now. I don’t even like the thought of the comparison.

  4. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    Shame Spencer March 6th, 2013 at 5:02 pm
    @MikeFrancesaNY

    Stop climbin into a hole, Sween! Dis is da Yankees!!!! I will yell foah days about dis. We will shoot foah da moon heah.
    __

    Eerily real.

  5. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Francesa knows rating will suffer if the Yankees aren’t good.

  6. Locke March 6th, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    I agree Rich. Waiting for 6 weeks to realize that he needs surgery would be devastating.

    We’re going to have product that is much worse than a 189mm.

  7. Shame Spencer March 6th, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Rich – Isn’t it?! I dunno who writes for that account but I think they listen to him and just type out what he says lol.. it’s amazinggggg.

  8. Chip March 6th, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    As mentioned on the prior thread, if this is Bautista-like, get the surgery now.
    ————-

    That’s not Cashman’s call. Tex may not want surgery and want to let it heal on his own.

    Plus, it could be a case where surgery means the season anyway, so 8-10 weeks might not matter.

  9. FiretheUMPIRE March 6th, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    - Swisher
    - Martin
    - Granderson
    - Teixeira
    - Rodriguez

    Subtractions without a single upgrade. Not to mention Hughes. Good thing the starting pitching is very very good. I wonder where they will start Jose Ramirez this season. AAA?

  10. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    Well, I like keeping Youkilis at 3rd. But I still don’t see a viable 1st baseman there right now. Maybe need to see Dan Johnson there more to really know.

    Repeat from last thread – I’d hate to see a replay of Gardner’s season last year – out and back and out and back and out and back and surgery – DONE for the season.

    I’d get another opinion if I were Tex and the Yankees, considering Bautista’s situation last season.

    But similar does not mean the same, and it could be there’s enough dissimilarity to warrant no surgery.

    My glass is quickly becoming 1/4 full.

  11. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    Look for Dan Johnson at 1st.
    Hal will not panic.

  12. Shame Spencer March 6th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Plus, it could be a case where surgery means the season anyway, so 8-10 weeks might not matter.

    ——————-

    Good point.

    I just don’t like how they’ve handled injuries over the past 3-4 years. I could envision him returning and basically pushing it too hard, reinjuring himself.

  13. Chip March 6th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    As for Fransayso – I’m not listening, but let me guess, he’s willing to deal Austin and Heathcott and Sanchez for Morneau?

    He’s the kind of Yankee fan that George always talked about when he said that Yankee fans don’t tolerate prospects.

  14. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Chip

    I get it. Tex needs his own doctor, but it’s possible that they team could try to convince him to wait. It’s often hard to see the big picture when there is the threat of the season being in jeopardy this early.

    For all we know, it’s to not forfeit all leverage in trade.

  15. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Chip – good point – Tex may want to try rehab, and I guess it’s ultimately his call unless the doctors can say definitively surgery is necessary.

  16. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    I said it before- if the Yanks have the injuries they had last year-they will not bounce back like they did last year. So far they have been worse.

  17. blake March 6th, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    “Never gets old.”

    never

  18. Shame Spencer March 6th, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    Doreen – Youk’s suited for 1B more than 3B. He’s below average defensively at 3B while he might fall at average at 1B.

    They’re better off playing Youk where he can maximize his strengths with Tex out.

  19. blake March 6th, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    hey I wonder if Montero could have played 1B……I kid I kid (sorta but not really)

  20. bruceb March 6th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    From skydiving to dumpster diving (again). Bad time for Cash to break his ankle.

  21. Against All Odds March 6th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:04 pm
    francesa going into crazy panic wanting morneau for prospects
    good thing he isn’t GM and only mayor of NY sports.

    ================

    It’s funny because a couple of days ago it was this
    Mike: Yankees need to get young they need to get some young guys on the team. They have some outfielders they are high on and in the nexy 2 yrs this roster will look very different but they have to get younger

    Mike Today: Hey you can’t give up on the season with guys like Ichiro, Mo, and Jeter on the team and wait for prospects because those guys won’t be here in 2-3 yrs. If you have to give up a prospect so be it. They are built to win now not yrs from now.

  22. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    What would it take to get back Montero?

  23. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    Best case scenario-Tex is back early May.
    Is there really a need to panic?

  24. Triple Short of a Cycle March 6th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    Unfortunately if the Yankees don’t make the playoffs they have the injury excuse to fall back on when they don’t make any moves next off season to help the team

  25. blake March 6th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    This injury really sucks because it’ll likely take more than 10 weeks to get him right…..Tex’s April is gonna be June now so you really can’t expect him to be even what he is healthy until the 2nd half.

  26. pkyankfan69 March 6th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    If they were going to trade for a guy here are some possible targets:

    Chase Headley
    Joe Mauer
    Justin Morneau
    Kendrys Morales
    Logan Morrison
    Garrett Jones
    Carlos Pena

    If Hal wasn’t a cheapskate Mauer would be awesome… Could fill in at first while Tex was out and then slide behind the plate and DH when Tex returns.

  27. Against All Odds March 6th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    And shame on Bob Heussler cheering when he heard the Tex news wtf kind of ish is that.

  28. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    I don’t want them to have to trade top prospects for an emergency situation; what would they do with a Tex replacement gotten via trade once Tex is back in 10 weeks (for the sake of argument)?

    At any rate, Trenton’s going to have a lot of “guest stars” this season…

  29. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    Francesa is a talk show host looking for material.
    Put Nunez at SS.

  30. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    we know granderson and teixeira are out for a significant part of the season. just think if there is even one more injury to a key player ? what’s the chance that doesn’t happen?

    going into the year needing to have everything go right was just a very bad idea.

    hal’s plan may make an even worst spring start than the marty miller spring and the hughes/ kennedy experiment in 2008. the good news is that the yankees often play badly the first 6 weeks of the year.

    things are actually getting kind of humorous. i’m emotionally hedged because i’d love to see cashman fired ,and you’d have think he’ll be in danger of getting fired if the yankees are really bad.

  31. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    Make that Nunez to 3rd.

  32. Wave Your Hat March 6th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    “hey I wonder if Montero could have played 1B”

    No.

    However, it’s good to know that the Yanks still have Youk and Haf who never get hurt.

  33. jackamir March 6th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    The Boss just turned over in his grave….. Bad management!!!! Fire these A-Holes…

  34. RMS March 6th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    Cashman will be watching the junk pile for another old player.

    —————————————————————————–
    I will say this about Francesa, he is the only Yankee fan on WFAN.

  35. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    “What would it take to get back Montero?”

    wouldn’t seattle take pineda?

  36. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Shame – but based on what they have right now, Youk is better at 3rd than anyone else there that I’ve seen. Never saw so many balls misplayed and mis-thrown from 3rd as in the games this week.

    So just in that it might be easier to find a 1st baseman than 3rd baseman, that’s why I’d rather have Youkilis at 3rd.

    If they can find a decent 3rd baseman, well, that’s different.

    Nix is not a possibility?

  37. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    How does Cashman get fired if he was following ownership’s directive?

  38. Jerkface March 6th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    The funny thing about Youk at third is that he isn’t even very good there, not anymore atleast. He SHOULD BE a first baseman!

    But he is wayyy better than Corban Joeseph and Dan Johnson have shown. Maybe try Mustelier there?

  39. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    What would it take to get back Montero?
    ///

    He may come back if the FO is turned over in five years. He has what approximates a spiritual attraction to the right field.

  40. Against All Odds March 6th, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:13 pm
    How does Cashman get fired if he was following ownership’s directive?

    ——————————

    They are going to throw someone to the wolves

  41. bruceb March 6th, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    Best case scenario-Tex is back early May.
    Is there really a need to panic.

    In a word, yes.

    Do you expect these guys to be hitting .300 after missing most of spring training and playing a few ML rehab games? That’s if they come back in May, which I highly doubt in Tex’s case. He’s becoming Mr. Sicknote.

  42. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    Musteliar should be at 3rd tomorrow.

  43. Triple Short of a Cycle March 6th, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    American Idol 3.0

  44. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    Perhaps Tex injured the wrist while tweeting?

  45. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Cash on crutches and in a wheelchair for 2 mos.

  46. RMS March 6th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    “What would it take to get back Montero?”

    —————————————————————————————————
    Oh, let it go. Enough with the Montero talk.

  47. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    “How does Cashman get fired if he was following ownership’s directive?”

    first of all owners don’t fire themselves.

    they fire managers and general managers.

    hal has made it clear he’s counting on development.

    i don’t think cashman can say he’s provided it in a way he said he would.

    don’t get me wrong, hal should fire himself, but that isn’t going to happen.
    and since the yankee gm position is not a lifetime position like the supreme court, i think both girardi’s and cashman’s seats have gotten much hotter.

  48. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    Ownership knows nothing about baseball.

    Therefore, no one in charge can evaluate Cashman’s moves with any real perspective.

    So we’re likely stuck with him.

  49. MG March 6th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    This is a tough break for both the Yankees and Teix, a guy that plays hard all of the time.

    You have to figure he misses all of April and May, that’s about 50 games, right?

    Dan Johnson isn’t going to cut it as an everyday 1st baseman-maybe against lefties he would be OK and has some power.

    Unless they make a trade for a major league 1st baseman they will really miss Swish’s versatility and ability to play 1st base for a couple of months.

    Subtracting Granderson is one thing because it’s possible that some of the minor league outfielders can fill in reasonably well but they don’t have anyone to fill in for either Teix or Cano, either offensively or defensively.

    Watching the minor leaguers play in person last night was a painful experience-if the guys that are filling in like Joseph, whoever was playing shortstop and Morton are an indication of the talent level in the minors this is going to be a very difficult time for the Yankees if one of the vets gets hurt.

  50. bruceb March 6th, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Cash on Francesa now.

  51. blake March 6th, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Scary part is that the players who are getting hurt are some of their youngest ones

  52. Against All Odds March 6th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    We have to deal with it on a short term basis – Cashman

  53. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    randy -

    I can understand if pitchers aren’t where they wanted them to be development-wise having Cashman on the hotseat. They started the rebuild with pitchers and catchers. The position players came later and so are delayed. The ownership should have known that they can’t count on those position players until next year at the earliest.

    I do understand they may want to make someone take a fall for this. In the past, ownership has not held management accountable for injuries.

    We also do not know if Cashman cautioned them about this. Given his candor, I would think he had.

  54. TheStraw March 6th, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Go get Carlos Lee

  55. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Cash is the face of the Yankees.
    His injury symbolizes their lack of depth.

  56. Wave Your Hat March 6th, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Youk, Hafner and Gardy are injuries waiting to happen.

    Lefties are going to be running to the mound to face the Yanks.

    No one left to sign.

    Sigh…

  57. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    BTW, just to clarify my position, I wouldn’t want Cashman back on another contract if for no other reason than I think it’s time for something (someone) new. But I don’t think he’s done anything to warrant having this contract ended prematurely.

  58. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Juan Rivera mentioned by Cash as an alternative at 1st.

  59. Jerkface March 6th, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Maybe one of the Cubans will defect and we can sign them. Oh wait that costs money :x

  60. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    Cash taking Sweeny Murtis tack and says not much out there.
    Mike excoriated Sweeny for that.
    Gentle as a lamb with Cash.

  61. Against All Odds March 6th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Mentioned by not a strong mention.

    He played 1st for the Dodgers but that doesn’t mean I see him that way. He’s more of an outfielder for us.

  62. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    The position players came later and so are delayed. The ownership should have known that they can’t count on those position players until next year at the earliest.
    ///

    Cashman is the one who should have known this, along with knowing that his lineup was getting creaky, and Cashman should have properly planned properly for it, rather than blowing away three young players from his system who can hit and whose presence could have prevented the current spiral.

    It’s Cashman who should have known this; not owners who know nothing about baseball.

  63. Against All Odds March 6th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:25 pm
    Cash taking Sweeny Murtis tack and says not much out there.
    Mike excoriated Sweeny for that.
    Gentle as a lamb with Cash.

    —————–

    You can tell he didn’t like Cashman’s answers. His facial expression screamed wait you aren’t going to trade everyone to the Twins.

  64. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Why not try Musty at 3rd starting now, Youk to 1st?

  65. David in Cal March 6th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    At what point should the Yanks kiss off 2013 and trade Cano for prospects?

  66. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Mike gets tired by 5-5:30.
    Recanting the Morneau idea now .

  67. FiretheUMPIRE March 6th, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    Had they (overpaid) for Morse, this wouldn’t have been an issue. Morse would’ve been perfect as an emergency 1B would could relocate upon Tex’s return.

  68. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    Hafner to 1st would be the logical choice but he is made of glass.

  69. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    Odds,

    What answers?

  70. blake March 6th, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    David in Cal says:
    March 6, 2013 at 5:28 pm
    At what point should the Yanks kiss off 2013 and trade Cano for prospects?

    If they are 10 out in June they might….. But I think it’ll take a terrible 1st half

  71. Bronx Jeers March 6th, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    I like the Mourneau idea.

    He’s expensive enough not to cost too much in trade

  72. MG March 6th, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    I’ve never seen Rivera play 1st base but he makes errors at an alarmingly high rate (for a 1st baseman) there-his lifetime fielding average at 1B is .988, Teix is .997.

    That doesn’t seem like much of a difference but it’s huge when you consider how many routine plays there are at 1st base.

    Add to that Rivera’s range probably being about the same as Giambi’s (a good barber pole would cover the same amount of ground) and it is a disaster waiting to happen, particularly since other teams are going to sign pitchers off the street to face the Yankees if they throw lefthanded.

  73. Against All Odds March 6th, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    David in Cal March 6th, 2013 at 5:28 pm
    At what point should the Yanks kiss off 2013 and trade Cano for prospects?

    ———————————-

    You want YS to be a complete ghost town

  74. bruceb March 6th, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    The Pope is always on Sweeny’s case. As a beat reporter, Sweeny is a straight shooter. As a pundit, Francesa knows better than anyone else. Mind you, in this case, he’s right. Yanks need to go out and get someone as the resources in-house are too thin.

  75. FiretheUMPIRE March 6th, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    If the Yankees are going to “tank” 2013 at some point they would probably still keep Cano. But they should be open to trading Granderson, Hughes, Joba and Gardner.

  76. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    JAP -

    Cashman can know, and can not be able to do what he wants to do since he does not own the club. You have an owner with an eye on the bottom line. It’s not so cut-and-dried as you like to present thing, I think.

    But here’s the thing that I always come back to and that is we do not ever have all the facts/information and biases that the organization bases their decisions on.

    I don’t agree with all the decisions they make; but I’ll figure they know a little more than most fans about why they’re making their decisions. (Which still may not make sense to us.)

  77. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    Chavez could have played 1st or 3rd.
    But he had enough of the nonsense.

  78. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    Not to worry, Cashman just said 75% of Tex when/if he comes back will be more than enough.

    Nothing to see here.

    Who wants to start drinking early?

  79. pkyankfan69 March 6th, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    FiretheUMPIRE March 6th, 2013 at 5:29 pm
    Had they (overpaid) for Morse, this wouldn’t have been an issue. Morse would’ve been perfect as an emergency 1B would could relocate upon Tex’s return.
    ————————————–
    If the reports were true, I’m glad the Yanks didn’t give up Heathcott for Morse.

  80. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    Francesa is not baseball smart.

  81. FiretheUMPIRE March 6th, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    Nats wanted 6 years of Heathcott for one single season of Morse?

    :lol:

  82. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    Doreen,

    The Yankee line right now is Tex will be back sometime and even if it’s lingering and he’s diminished, we’ll take it.

    This is what neither of us wanted. This thing is going to linger. He was talking about him maybe swinging a broomstick in 6 weeks on the radio.

    Ugh.

    I can’t believe Kay was just saying “maybe Eric Chavez will get waived at the end of spring training” as a possible solution.

    I can’t.

  83. Tyler March 6th, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Yanks are going to have to do a lot of the little things right… moving runners over, good baserunning. I really think they are going to miss Tex in the field especially if Nunez is throwing from the other side of the infield pretty frequently.

  84. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Does anyone think the Yanks will ever let a player go to the WBC again?
    Let’s hope Robbie isn’t the next casualty.

  85. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    G. Love -

    I’m trying to get my brain to spin as positive as I can get it, but you’re right. This the scenario we envisioned as being the worst case. Diminished, fine diminished, but it will more likely be a situation of having Tex in and out of the lineup, off and on the DL. That’s how I see it shaping up.

    Hey, I’d take Chavez back at this point. At least he is a familiar. But he wanted to be closer to home, who knows if he’d just retire if he was waived?

  86. FiretheUMPIRE March 6th, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    A rebuild could be fun. Unless fans really want to be a treadmill team like the Lakers. It’s an ugly old team run too conservatively. The Red Sox dumped most of their baggage. Watch their fans stick by that team. The front office doesn’t realize we’re not too attached to any of these guys.

  87. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    JAP -

    Cashman can know, and can not be able to do what he wants to do since he does not own the club. You have an owner with an eye on the bottom line. It’s not so cut-and-dried as you like to present thing, I think.
    ///

    On the contrary, it is cut and dry:

    Cashman traded away the only three bats in his system who could have been in the lineup last year and even in 2011.

    The team has aging, platoon bats, no bat speed, and no answer when it comes to offspeed pitches, and last year, they couldn’t even handle garden variety fastballs in the postseason.

    He was ignorant of what his strongest need was: hitting (a need he created), and got two pitchers who were not urgent gets (Vasquez, Pineda) while not seeing what he actually did urgently need: young bats.

    The other stuff has nothing to do with that fundamental failure of judgment to understand his own team’s needs going forward.

    And if he knew Hal wasn’t going to pony up for guys like Cespedes, his blindness about the aging lineup, and his sophomoric doting on “pitching wins” at the expense of putting together a lineup that gives pitching a chance, well, that’s even more egregious.

  88. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Morneau for Nunez straight up?

  89. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    Tyler – Yup. Tex saved a lot of errant throws, but I think more importantly, the fact that the infielders knew he could field just about everything allowed them to not have to think about the throw as much.

    Plus, he often took the ball to the bag himself more often than not, keeping pitchers out of the way of runners. Last thing you want is a pitcher getting hurt covering first, and he reduces that risk.

  90. Against All Odds March 6th, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 5:29 pm
    Odds,

    What answers?

    ——————-

    Won’t be a lot out there
    Deal with it short term
    Look in house first

  91. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    There’s really no positive to Tex going down. If we had a AAA 3b or 1b knocking on the door, you could spin this. But we’re talking Dan Johnson and Jayson Nix getting starting reps.

    I totally understand the Yankees being cautious and hoping rest recovers Tex to the point he can contribute anything. I doubt he wants to just go under the knife and call it a year.

    That being said, what I disapprove of is the idea that Tex will be back 100% preventing the front office from finding suitable talent for the position. At this time of year, no team will do us a favor.

    The only thing we can hope for are bubble guys on rosters being traded for our bubble guys in return.

    I wonder if we could reach out to Bryan LaHair who is playing somewhere in Asia and get him to come back.

    They’re going to have to be creative here. Just relying on the Quad A filler they brought in as faux depth isn’t going to cut it.

    And Robbie better sign the Yankees contract. He won’t see a pitch to hit all season and his numbers will suffer.

  92. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    Hughes , Nunez and Joba on the block?

  93. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    JAP -

    I can’t see it as black and white as you do, and I never will. I can see the rationale behind the trades, whether I like the trades or not.

    At the risk of opening another argument, the Yankees during the 2000s had lineups that bludgeoned their opponents for the entire regular season, which only disappeared once the post-season came, and the pitching failed as well. So, I do understand where the point of view that pitching is king came from.

  94. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    Mike will sell this Morneau deal to the hilt and it will start to make sense as time goes on.

  95. pkyankfan69 March 6th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    If the Yanks could get Morneau for fairly cheap I’m not sure what the downside is?

  96. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    mick,

    Getting Morneau does make sense. It’s the cost that needs to be evaluated. But Morneau gives us a middle of the order 1b who if Tex came back could slot at DH (and please don’t give me Hafner, we’ll be fortunate to get 60 games from him).

  97. Against All Odds March 6th, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:45 pm
    Mike will sell this Morneau deal to the hilt and it will start to make sense as time goes on.

    ————————

    Quite the opposite he’ll sell it the hilt and then when it doesn’t happen blast the Yankees for not doing it

  98. austinmac March 6th, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    Picking up discards has become a way of life for this team. That is the only kind of player they seek, it seems. Picking up released players means adding another bad player. I think we have enough of them already.

  99. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    Twins will try to hold us up for Morneau.
    Say Nunez and a top prospect.

  100. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    G. Love -

    I don’t want them to trade away the few guys that could maybe contribute in the future for what is a temporary fix, unless the person they can trade for is someone they would have wanted to get anyway and will have a place on the team for a few years.

    Well, fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy ride, as they say.

  101. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Where have you gone Russ Canzler?

    My kingdom for Casey McGehee.

    We heart you Stephen Pearce!

  102. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Doreen,

    Agreed. Although I do think we have more OF prospects than spots that will be filled by them. If we have to give up one of them for a very good bat it might make sense. Only problem is knowing which one to give up. The Yankees used to be very good at knowing which prospects to give up in those kind of deals. Not so much lately.

  103. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Mike sez Morse fits.
    Asked if he was traded.

  104. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    G. Love -

    Thanks for the levity. ;)

  105. Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    Crazy food for thought…………

    They made an effort in the media to re-sign Cano with a ‘substantial’ offer……….

    Keeping in mind that Hal is a ‘businessman’ and wants to get under $ 189 cap and reset the NYY number, the mounting injuries and all the one year deals that they will be out from under next year.

    Is the offer in the media just a smoke screen in order to clean house and rebulid ? Trade Cano for a haul and then Granderson too when he is healthy ?

  106. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    No one will want their outfield prospects. :(

    Actually, they’ll want the very ones we’d want them to keep.

  107. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    JAP -

    I can’t see it as black and white as you do, and I never will. I can see the rationale behind the trades, whether I like the trades or not.

    At the risk of opening another argument, the Yankees during the 2000s had lineups that bludgeoned their opponents for the entire regular season, which only disappeared once the post-season came, and the pitching failed as well. So, I do understand where the point of view that pitching is king came from.
    ////

    FTR, I don’t consider this “arguing.” We’re not relatives stuck together for a holiday meal, or family having some domestic dispute, we’re on a baseball blog. In any case, I’m not arguing with you, I’m disagreeing with your baseball observation.

    I also see the rationale behind the trades, and they are poor ones.

    The 2000s have nothing whatsoever to do with this, they can’t justify what’s been done in the last couple of years, here.

    They had no pitching really in 2004, 2005, 2006, not great in 2007 or 2008.

    That was not the case last season, so I don’t think the Yankees being lineup heavy those years has any correlation to Cashman not recognizing that he had pitching, and could acquire more cheaply, while being cavalier and incidentally, dead wrong, about his lineup getting older.

  108. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    You need something to rebuild around. Cano is the logical choice for that “honor,” if he accepts it.

  109. Sir Harden Thick March 6th, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    Its awesome the Yankees have Hafner, who will hit .220, as being just a DH. Just a horrible signing and waste of a roster spot. And he will be batting 4th or 5th. At least he will pick up the strikeouts that Granderson will be missing.

    I know it is early but you really have to be concerned the way Yankees have looked on the major and minor league level. I’m sorry but from what I saw so far the Yankees minor leaguers are no where close to being major leaguers.

  110. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    I think all these injuries actually strengthen Cano’s position with the Yankees. He’s a workhorse who plays all the time.

    If Arod is kaput and Tex is now made of glass, they can’t function as a team in the AL East without a plus hitter in the middle of the order.

    I think Cano’s price may have gone up and I think if Boras is smart, he’ll make the deal knowing Robbie isn’t going to see any pitches to hit this year.

  111. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    J.AP,

    You don’t need to explain the difference between arguing/discussing with Doreen. She gets it. She always has.

  112. Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    Twins will try to hold us up for Morneau.
    Say Nunez and a top prospect.

    =========

    Trade a ‘Top Prospect’ for Morneau who has had multiple concussions, headaches and other post concussion symptoms ? He was considering retirement when he was down and out the year before last.

    A time bomb waiting to go off ?

  113. mick March 6th, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    g love- so you are saying boras will settle with the yanks as insurance against cano having a bad year? quite the spin…teams will still clamor for robbie as they know he’s the real deal.

  114. austinmac March 6th, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    The Yankees never offered Chavez a contract. What is he to do but sign elsewhere, and say he’s happy about it. Cashman either did not have authority to act or couldn’t focus on that and some pitcher at the same time.

    This scenario happened over and over of never tendering an offer. I don’t get it. Make no offers, the better players sign elsewhere, and you end up with Johnson on the team.

    Does he need to get a hit in the spring to make the team?

  115. mick March 6th, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    Look for a Johnson/Rivera 1B platoon.

  116. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    mick,

    If Cano’s numbers took a dive because he wasn’t getting pitches to hit and he got into the bad habit of chasing out of frustration, it could affect his value.

    Russell Martin turned down 3 guaranteed years at good dollars from the Yankees only to have a poor season and end up on the Pirates for almost 1/2 the Yankees offer last spring.

    Your walk year factors into the contract.

  117. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    J.AP,

    You don’t need to explain the difference between arguing/discussing with Doreen. She gets it. She always has
    ///

    I’m glad to hear it.

    And had she not phrased it as not wanting to get into “an argument”, I would not have made the distinction for her, or anyone else who gets it. :)

  118. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    If anyone says Jack Cust they get slapped.

  119. mick March 6th, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Yanks should take a good hard look at Musteliar as the everyday 3B for the rest of the spring.

  120. Bronx Jeers March 6th, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    Yanks wouldn’t give Chavez $3MM but gave Hafner $2MM.

    doh!

  121. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    JAP -

    Substitute “debate” for “argument”. :)

    If I read your previous post correctly, you were talking about the hitting being traded away, and that you believe that losing that hitting is the basic problem (well, not recognizing the importance of that hitting).

    Why I think the 2000s does have something to do with this is that the team was stacked with hitting throughout the decade. They made mincemeat of their opposition most of those seasons. They got to the post season with relative ease (with the exception of their games versus the Red Sox, always a headache!). But once they got to the post season, the hitting (and the pitching) failed them them.

    It’s balance that’s necessary. Not pitching over hitting, or hitting over pitching. And you need them to both be working together at the right time, or you need to have them, at the very least, to not be NOT working at the same time (if that makes sense in a double negative).

    I’m not certain I’ve ever agreed with that excellent pitching can be had easily or cheaply. Mediocre pitching, sure. Above-average, maybe. But not the caliber that I think the Yankees wanted. They’ve lost the post season with generally average to above average pitching and a powerhouse offense.

    I think that there has been some stuff that happened that happened much more quickly than ever anticipated, specifically ARod’s deterioration and Tex becoming a different hitter than they signed.

    And really, in the 2000s the Yankees also went through many many many pitching injuries and pitchers who were above average until they got into Yankees pinstripes. I remember the litany of pitchers who came and went for several years. You can never have enough pitching.

    They only trade I wish they didn’t make was the one from last year. Because at that point, you could see ARod not being as good as he had always been, and you could see the need for another bat in that lineup. That is the only one where I will agree with you that the trade came out of nowhere for me.

  122. mick March 6th, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Mike sez Cuddyer.

  123. Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Sir Harden Thick March 6th, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    Agree. Hafner is a complete one dimensional waste of a roster spot. an injury just waiting to happen. I think he was on the DL 2-3 times last year with his back and knee(s)

  124. Sir Harden Thick March 6th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    austinmac says:
    March 6, 2013 at 6:00 pm
    The Yankees never offered Chavez a contract. What is he to do but sign elsewhere, and say he’s happy about it. Cashman either did not have authority to act or couldn’t focus on that and some pitcher at the same time.

    This scenario happened over and over of never tendering an offer. I don’t get it. Make no offers, the better players sign elsewhere, and you end up with Johnson on the team.

    Does he need to get a hit in the spring to make the team?

    _________________________________________________________

    As of now he is making the team. Does he need a hit? Nah, none of the Yankees except Gardner and Ichiro are hitting.

  125. mick March 6th, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    Look for Nuney at 3rd everyday the rest of the Spring tho.

  126. Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    What is the new over / under number on Yankee wins this year ?

  127. Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    Even more dependent on the SP now with ‘Tex’ on the the shelf.

  128. austinmac March 6th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    I think Randy is right that Cashman’s job is on the line. Hal expects him to fulfill his assurances many years ago the system would supply the players. If it doesn’t, Cashman will go. I don’t know when, but owners have to look like they are doing something in tough times. A new, splashy GM would be much cheaper than others actions.

  129. backbench March 6th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    G Love’s got it right.

    “Who wants to start drinking early?”

    We could also start guessing what the Yanks will do with one of the top five draft prospects next year.

    But hopefully we will see a lot of the younger talent on the field finally, and 50year fan, that’s just fine.

  130. mick March 6th, 2013 at 6:12 pm

    Someone just suggested Garrett Jones.
    Mike doesn’t know who he is-as I didn’t.
    But he’s avoiding the question as we speak.
    Sort of like his explanation when he fell asleep on Sweeny.

  131. backbench March 6th, 2013 at 6:13 pm

    “for a 50 year fan..” Sorry

  132. joeman March 6th, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    season might be done before it started..slow start = big drop at gate which might had been a issue anyways..

  133. Bronx Jeers March 6th, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Everybody’s talkin bout Hafner, Johnson, Nunez & Youkilis

    All we are saying, is give Mustelier a chance

  134. joeman March 6th, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 6:09 pm
    What is the new over / under number on Yankee wins this year ?

    —————–
    a Las Vegas Book had them at 88 a week or two ago

  135. shaistyone March 6th, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    It seems like the key should be to find the best lineup we can, and go with it as long as the positions are reasonably covered. With so many RBI guys out, focusing on high-average/speed/smallball might be the way to go.

    Does this seem like the current best opening-day lineup given what they have in camp?

    Gardner – LF/CF
    Jeter – SS
    Youkilis – 3B/1B
    Hafner – DH
    Cano – 2B
    Mustelier – Any corner
    Ichiro – RF
    Mesa – CF/LF
    Cervelli – C

    Reserves:
    Stewart
    Nunez
    Nix
    Almonte

    Like an NL-version of the Yankees?

  136. theREALkevin March 6th, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    ““hey I wonder if Montero could have played 1B”

    No.”

    Great analysis

  137. joeman March 6th, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    is Jeter a sure bet to start the season a SS

  138. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    “I don’t agree with all the decisions they make; but I’ll figure they know a little more than most fans about why they’re making their decisions.”

    doreen-

    people in authority usually know more than people who aren’t but this isn’t always true. i don’t think hal knows more baseball than i do or many on this blog. what he did was inherit the yankees. he hasn’t been doing baseball that long.

    the mistake hal is making is he’s jumping in too fast and putting in his stamp on the yankees without really knowing what he’s doing.

    hal is going to get his butt kicked with his plan. we’re already seeing the beginning of this. it’s only going to get worse. i don’t feel like i’m going out on a limb saying that hal’s plan has almost no chance of succeeding. it is going to fail.

    the question is only how quickly he’ll abandon it.

  139. Carlo March 6th, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    Its funny that no one picks up on this being the ideal situation for the yankee management group. The team is bad, was bad coming in, and now the injuries allow them to hide behind bad luck, as opposed to bad decisions.

  140. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    “Someone just suggested Garrett Jones.
    Mike doesn’t know who he is-as I didn’t.”

    mick-

    did you see what i wrote about garret jones earlier?

  141. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    randy -

    I don’t know what Hal knows or doesn’t know about baseball, but I’ll agree he’s probably learning on the fly.

    However, what I was talking about was the Yankees as an entity knowing more about their situation than anyone on the outside ever could. This does not mean that they necessarily make the “right” decisions, but that they have their reasons for making decisions that we are not privy to.

  142. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    Randy -

    Oh, the plan?

    If he’s genuine about fielding a competitive team, he’s just had an education in 2 weeks of spring training.

  143. joeman March 6th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Rather have Ryan Doumit

  144. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    JAP -

    Substitute “debate” for “argument”. :)
    ///

    THERE YOU go :)

    If I read your previous post correctly, you were talking about the hitting being traded away, and that you believe that losing that hitting is the basic problem (well, not recognizing the importance of that hitting).
    ///

    NOT JUST LOSING “hitting” in general, but losing a particular kind of hitter: young, contact-oriented hitters with live bats (or bat speed). IOW, exactly the profile of hitter we have been lacking and that the farm cannot yet provide. Yes, the lack of recognition of the need for this type of hitter, and the holes created by moving this type of hitter three times; as in, all three young hitters already here.

    Why I think the 2000s does have something to do with this is that the team was stacked with hitting throughout the decade. They made mincemeat of their opposition most of those seasons. They got to the post season with relative ease (with the exception of their games versus the Red Sox, always a headache!). But once they got to the post season, the hitting (and the pitching) failed them them.
    ////

    RIGHT, BUT THAT still doesn’t correlate to the present dilemma. The reason we couldn’t win in those years is because we had the opposite problem: we had no pitching. So, if Cashman had made the kind of swap he did with Seattle last year back then – and we got a young flamethrower with a great slider, that would have made contextual sense, especially before Joba Chamberlain entered the scene (because that is an apt description of what he was in 2008). So I still don’t see why those failures (primarily the result of pitching that did not give the hitters a chance, plus other problems, such as not enough of the kind of hitter I am talking about above and some subpar defense, especially with Giambi at 1B and some of our OF configurations) would come near justifying Cashman’s trades that left us bereft of young contact hitters who could hit .300-ish. Are you saying the frustration of those years made him value pitching more, even though we had pitching? Because that would be a very flawed thought process, IMO.

    It’s balance that’s necessary. Not pitching over hitting, or hitting over pitching.
    ///

    I’M NOT SURE why you think saying this to me is necessary, or that I would disagree in principle with that. I’m responding to the Yankees’ needs; not making some general, indiscriminate philosophical statement that hitting trumps pitching in the game of baseball. That would be ridiculous of me, of anyone who purports to understand the sport.

    I’m not certain I’ve ever agreed with that excellent pitching can be had easily or cheaply.
    ///

    AGAIN, I’M TALKING about a specific time period, a specific set of years, not making a general wash that “pitching can be had cheaply.” They signed Kuroda to a 1-year deal and Pettitte to a 1-year deal. They already HAD CC Sabathia (whom they had nothing like in the years you mention when the pitching was mediocre). My point was that they could add pitching cheaply, and I anticipated they would sign Kuroda (did not know about Andy). They also had Hughes-Nova and Phelps made his case last year as well (part of my reasoning was they had some depth in the system as well).

    AS FOR “specifically ARod’s deterioration and Tex becoming a different hitter than they signed,” – the writing was on the wall on both of those, and it was clear in team OPS, BA and OBP against RHP. A pattern had developed and many of us saw it coming; just not the Yankee GM, and there is something wrong with that.

    And really, in the 2000s the Yankees also went through many many many pitching injuries and pitchers who were above average until they got into Yankees pinstripes. I remember the litany of pitchers who came and went for several years. You can never have enough pitching.
    ///

    AGAIN, YOU SEEM to be relying on truisms to support their moves, rather than examining the team’s needs at the time or ones that could be anticipated for the time period. “You can never have enough pitching” is a truism in baseball, but where is your context? It doesn’t mean you trade away every ready or entrenched in-prime or young exceptional bat you have because you can acquire another pitcher because “you can never have enough pitching,” Indeed, if you can “never have enough”, then the moves won’t really alleviate that, will they? ;)

    They only trade I wish they didn’t make was the one from last year. Because at that point, you could see ARod not being as good as he had always been, and you could see the need for another bat in that lineup. That is the only one where I will agree with you that the trade came out of nowhere for me.
    ///

    IT WAS THE WORST of the three because 1). the other two were made so there was just the one young bat left, 2). the team was that much older when it was made, 3). They had pitching going into the season, and it’s no coincidence that they pitched well and hit poorly in the postseason, and 4). The bat, of the three, is the best in terms of hit tool/power and has elite-elite upside.

  145. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    And at this point, rather than trade away prospects of value, or signing another reclamation veteran, I’d say, go with the youth. It’s hard to “argue” (lol) that they’ve got anything to lose by going that route, and they could be pleasantly surprised.

  146. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    The only way I would trade top prospects is for a really big young player, like Stanton.

    More likely, they need to vastly overspend again this year by being willing to pay the expiring contract of any player who has a reasonable chance to be good this season, as long as the money they are taking off another team’s hands is about all they have to give up.

  147. Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    Thanks Joeman

  148. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    “but that they have their reasons for making decisions that we are not privy to.”

    doreen-

    of course they have their reasons, but that doesn’t mean they’re right. they also do have the right to be wrong and run the team into the ground if they want. it’s hal’s team after all.

    watching hal is like watching an inexperienced chess player make moves.
    you can tell he’s new at this.

  149. joeman March 6th, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 6:38 pm
    Thanks Joeman

    —————————-
    all the win totals in the AL (East) were low..guess they expect them to beat each other all season long

  150. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    Yikes! And that bat was at the catcher position, duh, kind of left out an important reason :)

  151. Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    We need to get away from trading what top prospects we have, same old stuff mortgaging the future for now leaves the cupboard empty.

  152. Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Joeman

    Could be and I bet that Yamkee number is lower now

  153. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    “If he’s genuine about fielding a competitive team, he’s just had an education in 2 weeks of spring training.If he’s genuine about fielding a competitive team, he’s just had an education in 2 weeks of spring training.”

    doreen-

    yes he has. that’s why i was saying the silver lining to the injuries to the granderson and teixeira injuries is that hal may be forced to reevaluate his budget plan.

  154. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    “watching hal is like watching an inexperienced chess player make moves.
    you can tell he’s new at this.”

    I think he has delegated running the team to Levine and Cashman. If some reports about his hands being tied during the winter meetings are correct, and given some of the moves (e.g., Ichiro) made recently, it may be that more power is flowing to Levine.

    But you’re right that the ultimate responsibility is Hal’s, and he is the one who will take the heat if things go south.

    He’ll still be making boatloads of money no matter what though.

  155. joeman March 6th, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    while they are playing the injury game no surprise that 3rd baseman will be the next to go down…

    the juice is gone right now from this team & it will show at the gate

  156. Chip March 6th, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    Youk makes sense at 1b but the Yankees are right in that it creates a hole at 3b and it’s harder to find a 3b than a 1b.

    I think for right now everyone needs to take a deep breath. No one is going to be available tomorrow to come in and fix this; so let’s just see what develops over the next couple of weeks.

    Maybe they take a long look at Mustelier; maybe once Derek’s back in the lineup we see more of Nunez at 3b or maybe someone could be pried loose from another roster later in the spring.

    Garrett Jones is one possibility as is his Pittsburgh teammate Travis Snider.

    Brett Wallace down in Houston has seen some shine come off his prospect star, with Chris Carter and Carlos Pena around maybe they’re willing to part with him.

    Daric Barton out in Oakland

    The thing to keep in mind is that a) there was no way the Yankees could have anticipated this; b) even a deeper team isn’t going to have enough depth to weather the losses of 3 All-Star players like Alex, Tex and Granderson – so you can’t really hold this against Cashman either for lack of preparation; c) whomever the Yankees do replace Tex with, whether it’s internal or external, isn’t going to be as good as Tex.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Mustelier get a long look there.

  157. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    it’s really obvious hal has to jettison the 189 plan.

    tonight would not be too soon.

    just give it up.

  158. Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    NYY Under / Over now 86

  159. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    JAP -

    I think the past provides context for the moves that were made.

    While the ARod writing was on the wall, I’m not so sure about Teixeira, but I don’t pretend to be an expert in these things. I know people will talk about his swing mechanics, etc., but I thought the Yankees signed an elite fielder (which he still is) with power (which he still has) who can hit to all fields for average (which he has not in the last 2 seasons). I will take Tex without the average, but I understand that others are less accepting.

    The Yankees are not the first place I heard “you can never have enough pitching.” I tend to agree with it, because pitchers are a lot more fragile and Ace pitching is not all that plentiful.

    I liked the Granderson trade at the time, and so I will not go back on it. I would have loved to have seen Austin Jackson play for the Yankees, absolutely.

    I was a Melky Cabrera fan. I was one of his biggest supporters here before the trade. For whatever reason, the Yankees became disenchanted with him. This is what I mean about biases or information that the Yankees have that we do not that informs their decisions. I do not believe they should have re-signed him, however.

    I bought a Montero jersey after CC Sabathia signed his extension, because I truly believed that once they had Sabathia committed, they had no need to trade Montero for a pitcher.

    But, I can’t be angry. Life goes on. And it’s in the baseball’s DNA to disappoint its fans along the way, for one reason or another. I mean, the Mets traded TOM SEAVER!!!!

    I have no explanation why a team that hits well all season long fails in the post season in such a dramatic way. And last year and 2010 aren’t the first years that happened. It happened when they were stacked with professional and elite hitters like Matsui, ARod in his prime, and Sheffield.

    I subscribe to the “sometimes it’s just someone else’s year” theory in the playoffs.

  160. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    “The thing to keep in mind is that a) there was no way the Yankees could have anticipated this”

    He may not have been able to anticipate the exact depth of their current problems, but even a sightless (wo)man could see that his statement last year that he had offense to spare was clueless because:

    1) Jeter, A-Rod, Tex were all aging or declining, and Swisher, Martin, and Chavez had expiring contracts.

    2) They had one ML ready young hitter of any not in the mL.

    So that there might be an upcoming o problem with the offense was foreseeable, even if the depths of this particular problem wasn’t.

    That’s on him.

  161. Chip March 6th, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    it’s really obvious hal has to jettison the 189 plan.

    tonight would not be too soon.

    just give it up.
    —————–

    Who are you spending money on today that’s coming in and making a difference?

  162. joeman March 6th, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    Felix Unger March 6th, 2013 at 6:50 pm
    NYY Under / Over now 86

    ——————————————
    won’t get them in the playoffs

  163. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 6:53 pm

    randy -

    I did say that I didn’t think having their private reasons doesn’t necessarily make their decisions “right.” Just that they have reasons that we don’t know about.

  164. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    “He’ll still be making boatloads of money no matter what though.”

    rich in nj-

    i agree, that’s why i’m hoping hal gets it from fans in NYC when he’s there. i’m assuming he’s there sometimes.

  165. austinmac March 6th, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    As much as I hate a bad team, I’d hate it worse of they trade good, needed prospects for a band aid.

  166. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    “Just that they have reasons that we don’t know about.”

    doreen-

    well i know cashman had some reason i don’t now about when he dated louise meanwell :)

    i know.

    cheap shot, but that’s kind of an obvious example of people doing stupid things when they really should know better.

  167. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    While the ARod writing was on the wall, I’m not so sure about Teixeira, but I don’t pretend to be an expert in these things. I know people will talk about his swing mechanics, etc., but I thought the Yankees signed an elite fielder (which he still is) with power (which he still has) who can hit to all fields for average (which he has not in the last 2 seasons). I will take Tex without the average, but I understand that others are less accepting.
    ///

    Tex’s left-handed swing mechanics and Alex’s decline/age all the more reason you need to tuck away a couple of contact hitters in your lineup. Tex then would not have been as big of a deal, he could be protected and hit jacks.

    When we used to grind out ABs, we did it with hitters that could stay on pitches, foul them off, wear down starters. You get to a pitcher collectively, and then he makes more mistakes, etc. That’s what those lineups used to do.

    The worst of it is their having hand waved the hitting catcher advantage. I just don’t think Cashman understands anything about Yankee success and I don’t think he considers the ballpark his team plays his home games in, either.

    In sum, I think Cashman needs to have been gone already, but I am certain that by now, he needs to go!

  168. Chip March 6th, 2013 at 6:59 pm

    Rich,

    The injuries to Tex and Granderson though aren’t age related. One guy takes a fastball off the arm the other checks a swing and pops a ligament.

    Even the injuries to Alex and Jeter aren’t age related.

    These things just happen. You can’t have redundancies for every position.

    Would I be happy if the Yankees had greater depth? Absolutely. But even if they had brought everyone back these three injuries would still be damn near debilitating. Bringing back bad players like Ibanez and Martin wasn’t going to make it any better. We would just be talking about why the Yankees spent money to retain bad players instead of signing player X instead.

  169. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    Chip -

    Right. For now, there is no quick fix available for just money. It’s too late for that.

    I also agree that you can’t possibly foresee all of this happening. Certainly not all at once.

    Grandy’s injury was an accident. First at bat of the year, hit by pitch, broken arm. Sheesh.

    The injuries you’d anticipate are Gardy, Jeter not being full strength, ARod (which happened early enough to take care of), and the odd hamstring/groin pull. Given Tex’s history last season, though, they might have thought he’d miss some time. That’s the only one I’d say they weren’t really prepared for.

  170. blake March 6th, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    I’m laughing on the outside but crying on the inside

  171. Chip March 6th, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    JAP –

    Is there ever going to come a point where you’re going to let the Montero thing go?

  172. Chip March 6th, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    If there is a positive to take from this, it’s that there’s still a month left before the season. April might look bad for the team, but Tex and Granderson will both be back before Memorial Day.

  173. mick March 6th, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    Who is going to tell Hal that Cash needs to go?
    Does he even know Tex is hurt?

  174. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    Chip

    That’s irrelevant to my point. Their were offensive issues before they got hurt, in part because Granderson’s 2011 appears to be way out of context and Tex has been in decline since ’09.

    And again, Swisher, Martin, and Chavez were important to this team.

    So they needed a bat no matter what.

    Now they need more than one.

  175. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    “Who are you spending money on today that’s coming in and making a difference?”

    that’s exactly the question that yankee management could ask each other at an emergency meeting if hal gave them the go ahead to spend some money.

    hal should do it.

    i think the first thing they should do is write off the bad contracts as money that’s gone.

  176. mick March 6th, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    but Tex and Granderson will both be back before Memorial Day.
    ===================
    we don’t know that.
    grandy most likely.

  177. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    You know, maybe it is just the time for the Yankees to recede for a while? You know, the circle of baseball life? Where the big bad Yankees dominate the game for years on end, and then fall off a cliff for a period of time only to emerge stronger?

    I mean, you think, with their money, it should never happen. But the life cycle goes on and on and on….

    The key will be to have the down period be very short!

  178. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    randy -

    Are you suggesting they release ARod?

  179. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    one thing they could do is to sign granderson, cano, hughes, and joba.
    that’d be a start.

    granderson is a very good player.

    if he wasn’t he wouldn’t be thought of as too expensive for the 189 budget.

    screw the 189 budget. sign granderson. sign cano.

  180. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    “Are you suggesting they release ARod?”

    doreen-

    no, just that they should write off the money. don’t let the money owed alex stop them from spending on other players.

  181. blake March 6th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    “You know, the circle of baseball life?”

    So the Yankees used to be the lions…..but now they have become the grass so the Rays and Orioles can eat them.

  182. mick March 6th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    The key will be to have the down period be very short!
    ==================================
    But there are no guarantees.
    The fear here is that the new direction will lead to a new generation of mediocrity.
    The fear is they will not be the Yankees we have grown to love.
    I don’t know if you remember the Dave Collins Era.
    Thankfully it lasted about a year.

  183. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Chavez was a godsend last season. The season before not so much. I think they may have gotten all there was to get from him. The stories about what it took for him to get ready for a game? Wow. I’m not sure he could have played as much as they will have ended up needing him to play. He was great last year and I’m glad they had him. I’m not sure he would/could do it two years in a row. He was an injury waiting to happen all the time.

    Perhaps he realized that he would be playing even more than he bargained for and that’s another reason why he opted to play closer to his home. Who knows?

    You guys HATED Martin. It’s not fair to turn around and say the Yankees should have kept him!!!

    Swisher was never going to come back here – his numbers were too good and he knew it was his payday. The Yankees were NOT going long term contract for Swisher. But I think the Yankees knew what they would be losing there. He was fantastic in the regular season. He was also a bargain. ;)

  184. G. Love March 6th, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Doreen,

    There’s just too many moves this team passed up in the past 3 years or made in error to be able to sit comfortably as a fan and say “baseball circle of life”. They’ve ignored the top International free agents like they were plague. They’ve traded away young bats for broken pitching or an established star in Grandy they don’t want to commit to long term.

    And that’s not even talking about regular free agents they’ve passed on to set themselves up for a cash windfall next year.

    It didn’t have to come to this. It came to this out of greed not wanting to win and be the best organization in the league.

    All of the personnel decisions of late are driven by their need to get more profit down the road.

    That’s inexcusable and has nothing to do with baseball’s circle of life.

  185. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    blake,

    Something like that. LOL

    mick,

    I stopped looking for guarantees a long time ago.

    And, without any players left from the teams of the late 90s early 2000s, it won’t be the Yankees we’ve grown to love anyway.

    The transition is not going as smoothly as I’d hoped, admittedly.

  186. Chip March 6th, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    one thing they could do is to sign granderson, cano, hughes, and joba.
    that’d be a start.

    granderson is a very good player.
    —————-

    He’s not worth signing though. He’s going into his older years, is one dimensional and strikes out a ton.

    Giving Cano a long term deal is just repeating the same mistakes they made with Alex and (to a lesser extent) Tex.

    I would rather they sign guys like McCann, even Ellsbury. Forget the money, they won’t cost the years.

  187. Chip March 6th, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    Doreen,

    100% right; especially about Martin. I don’t recall a single person saying how much they wanted him back here until after he was gone.

  188. tomingeorgia March 6th, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    randy,
    What’s the most you earned as a bullpen catcher? Did you see that the Phillie bullpen guy played an inning in that rout by the DR?

  189. Shame Spencer March 6th, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    Has anyone heard anything on the Diaz investigation? Maybe get him and try him at 3B?

    Or try to trade for an Olt and move Youk to 1B? I think considering the contracts and needs (not just this year but going forward) they should focus on trying to get a 3B.

  190. Rich in NJ March 6th, 2013 at 7:16 pm

    “You guys HATED Martin. It’s not fair to turn around and say the Yankees should have kept him!!!”

    This is false, Doreen.

    No, I don’t like his approach at the plate, but life isn’t only about what we want, it’s also about what we need.

    So in order to let him go, they had to have a replacement. They didn’t and they don’t.

    Equally important, another reason some of us wanted him to go was that if they were going to have any flexibility in 2014, they could give out any two year contracts.

    The Ichiro deal negated that pretense.

    “Swisher was never going to come back here – his numbers were too good and he knew it was his payday”

    Right, which is why some us wanted to trade him a year ago and sign Beltran, whose contract would be expiring this season.

  191. jacksquat March 6th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    What funny is, it’s not even the old guys getting hurt – Hughes (26), Granderson (31), Teixeira (32).

    The old folks – Rivera (43), Jeter (38), Arod (37) are still recovering from getting injured last year.

    Btw, no team has backups to cover losing a Teixeira + Granderson, those guys are 3-5 hitters on almost all teams. Pretty much no team has the depth to cover that kind of loss.

    And it’s not because of team age, because it’s not the old farts that are dropping.

  192. Shame Spencer March 6th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Damn Chad, you always do me dirty :arrow:

  193. randy l. March 6th, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    “Swisher was never going to come back here – his numbers were too good and he knew it was his payday. The Yankees were NOT going long term contract for Swisher. ”

    i can’t remember before swisher who was the last yankee player as good as him that the yankees let leave as a free agent.

    swisher was clearly a victim of hals austerity plan.

    as far as martin, no one said they wanted cervelli and stewart instead of him.
    if hal would spend have authorized some money, they could have gotten a catcher better than cervelli and stewart.

    it all keeps getting back to hal not spending money.

  194. mick March 6th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    I stopped looking for guarantees a long time ago.
    ============================
    You hope for a short period of decline.
    There is no guarantee it won’t last like previous 20 year droughts have, until an owner who wants to win for the right reasons, comes along.

  195. Doreen March 6th, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    G. Love -

    I was trying to make light. :(

    I’ve maintained that I don’t have an issue with trying to be more fiscally responsible. For a while they were throwing money at the wrong players.

    To me, it looked like they were trying to correct this. Along the way, they did pass up some players in favor of others, and there were compelling arguments here both pro and con each decision that was ultimately made.

    As a theoretical, it seemed to me to make sense to try and streamline – and to not overspend in certain areas. I could feel comfortable with my reasoning for why they didn’t pursue this or that player.

    They DID spend money this off-season.

    What they have right now though, and what we’re looking at, is uncertainty beyond this season. That’s unsettling.

    I hope they understand they cannot field Derek and the Dominoes (as in falling pieces), and expect as large a number of people to pay to see it in person, or even to tune in on YES. There are no records to be broken this year, I don’t think, right? No 650 HRs? No 4000 hits?

  196. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    Chip March 6th, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    JAP –

    Is there ever going to come a point where you’re going to let the Montero thing go?

    ///

    Sorry, had to pick up my wife. We’ve got some nasty weather looming.

    To answer you sincerely, Chip: I probably will not get over this anytime soon. Maybe when Sanchez is behind the plate; maybe then.

  197. Chip March 6th, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    Look, I know what some of you wanted:

    They should have kept Montero and signed Prince to DH.

    Then they should have signed Hamilton to play RF and Napoli; then they could deal Granderson and Montero for Mike Trout (unless you think that’s too much to give up for Trout?)

    Oh, and the Yankee prospects should be rated 1 – 50 on all prospect lists. And of course, only give up prospects who suck for good players. Something like Pat Venditte for Miguel Cabrera to fill in for Alex.

    Were mistakes made? Of course they were. But everyone needs to take a deep breath and relax.

    George throwing money around was fun, but didn’t always get us where we wanted (how many rings did Sheff and Giambi get here?)

    I know, when Cashman says that offense is easy to find, we cringe, but the fact is that for the Yankees it is easier than pitching (as evidenced by the fact that they got good power numbers out of some pretty crappy hitters last year) So spending on pitching is what makes sense.

    In any case – the following things are false:

    1. Hal is trying to drive down the payroll to sell the team. Hal could put the Yankees on the market with a $300 mil payroll and still have more prospective buyers than he knew what to do with.

    2. Cashman needs to go The absolute worst thing that could happen is Brian Cashman being fired. His replacement would be handpicked by Randy Levine and likely would just be a puppet for someone who knows absolutely nothing about baseball. It would be a return to the bad old 80s.

    3. The Yankees are doomed That these injuries are happening now sucks but it’s better than if it happened two months from now. There’s time for Cashman to look around and make adjustments. Brian’s never been a big believer in making deals during the season, but that doesn’t mean he won’t.

    4. The Yankees need to sign Cano One has nothing to do with the other. Giving Cano an 8 year deal doesn’t improve their chances of winning this year. All it does is potentially condemn them to watching another star player deteriorate with age.

  198. J. Alfred Prufrock March 6th, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    I bought a Montero jersey after CC Sabathia signed his extension, because I truly believed that once they had Sabathia committed, they had no need to trade Montero for a pitcher.
    ///

    You were right, there was no need :)
    ///

    FTR, I’d have signed Melky in a hearbeat, and I never would have traded him in the first place! His 2009 was decent, only was going to get better. They messed around too much with a championship team and haven’t won since ;)

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