Spring training Game 24: Yankees at Pirates
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 17, 2013 
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YANKEES (8-14)
Eduardo Nunez SS
Brennan Boesch RF
Kevin Youkilis 3B
Juan Rivera 1B
Jayson Nix 2B
Chris Stewart C
Thomas Neal LF
Dan Johnson DH
Melky Mesa CF
RHP Ivan Nova (0-0, 1.00)
PIRATES (9-12)
Starling Marte LF
Russell Martin C
Andrew McCutchen CF
Pedro Alvarez 3B
Garrett Jones 1B
Gaby Sanchez Dh
Travis Snider RF
Josh Harrison 2B
Clint Barmes SS
RHP Phil Irwin (0-0, 2.25)
TIME/TV: 1:05 p.m., not on television
WEATHER: Cloudy, but little chance of rain. Little bit of rain blowing from right to left.
UMPIRES: HP Tom Hallion, 1B Bill Welke, 2B Chad Fairchild, 3B Travis Carlson
FAMILIAR FACE: Russell Martin is behind the plate for the Pirates. The former Yankees catcher signed with Pittsburgh this offseason and has admitted being a little surprised that he didn’t end up back in New York.
THE DAY BEFORE THE OFF DAY: The Yankees have their second off day of the spring tomorrow. Andy Pettitte, Mariano Rivera and Phil Hughes will each throw, but for the most part, the big leaguers are getting a break after today’s game.
WHAT TO WATCH: Ivan Nova seems to have a leg up in the fifth starter competition, but David Phelps has also had a strong spring. … Another start for newcomer Brennan Boesch. Again, he seems to have a leg up in the competition for an outfield spot, but the Yankees say his spot on the roster is not a lock. … Thomas Neal may be emerging as a dark horse candidate as a right-handed outfielder. He and Melky Mesa each seem to be still in the mix for a roster spot, especially now that Matt Diaz has been officially sent away.
UPDATE, 1:17 p.m.: Nunez with a leadoff single. Steals second. Steals third. Scores on a Russell Martin throwing error on the second steal. Meanwhile, Brennan Boesch — who had reached on an infield single after Nunez stole second — stole second when Nunez stole third, then went to third on the Martin error. Base running! It’s 1-0.
UPDATE, 1:19 p.m.: Towering two-run homer by Youkilis. Home runs! It’s 3-0.
UPDATE, 2:06 p.m.: Shut out in 18 innings yesterday, the Yankees are now up 8-0 in the third inning after a grand slam to center field by Melky Mesa. By my unofficial count, the Pirates have walked 40 guys already.
UPDATE, 2:38 p.m.: Ivan Nova has allowed his first run of the game on a one-out RBI double by Pedro Alvarez. Nova then plunked Garrett Jones and the Pirates have two on with one out and Gaby Sanchez at the plate.
From MLB Trade Rumors:
We learned last week that the Rangers are scouting Joba Chamberlain of the Yankees and one AL scout believes that the Bombers believe they have gone as far as they can with the right-hander. “They would deal him in a heartbeat and then fill in with one of their starters in the bullpen,” said the scout. “If Texas would give up Mike Olt, a deal could get done there.”
There is no reason to question Teixiera’s motivation. He does have a tricky injury which does not have a clear healing time frame. They cannot assume he will he will be back in May. They can hope, but it could be a long haul. There is just no way to know.
I see Cashman says there is a 70% chance of avoiding season ending surgery. Yikes.
Olt’s star is shining a little less brightly in Texas. He may be available for some unknown cost.
Go Vato! Go Yanks!
Wow. This happens, he could go to Texas and be a beast.
How these people get to keep making mistakes and keep their jobs is beyond me.
The present state of the Yankees reminds me of watching Gate 2 turn into rubble.
I will be very sad to see Joba dealt. His value is low because he has been relegated to 7th inning duty. Therefore, from the Yankees vantage point, he doesn’t have much value. However, if he can start elsewhere, he will become much more valuable. I’d love to see him realize his potential in another uniform.
yankeefeminista March 17th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Go Vato! Go Yanks!
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+1
I’d love to see him realize his potential in another uniform.
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Yankeefem – Me, too, but I feel like we’re saying this a lot; it’s just the “him” that we hope realizes his potential in another uniform who changes.
Well, this sucks. No coverage anywhere of the Vato, who I have yet to see through an outing this ST, just a pitch here and there. I finally have some down time, and nobody’s showing this thing?
mick March 17th, 2013 at 1:15 pm
“They need a fifth starter either the 6th or the 7th, pick your poison. That’s either going to be Hughes if he’s healthy, or they’ll need Phelps if Hughes can’t go.”
==================
Chad
I thought you said they might need 6 starters to start the season and still don’t understand that.
———————————–
“That’s why I’m saying, if Hughes isn’t ready, they’ll need a sixth starter that first turn. They’ll need someone to take that one turn.”
————————————-
As you said, if PH isn’t ready then DP will go as the #5.
Maybe it is just a nice way to say Phelps is the #6 starter/swing man or need not be on the roster if Hughes is healthy and they want him to get his innings in AAA.
Atta boy, Eduardito. Good start.
I would trade Robertson. They could get more for him. He is fully valued. Joba probably is undervalued. It’s not good to trade undervalued assets.
Alfred, where have you been? I’ve been killing everybody with boring train stories:)
NO way I would pay to see the Yankee lineup above. Even if on TV, I wouldn’t look-in. I get it that regular players do Not wantta ride the bus, but at some point the Yankees owe it to their fans, and MLB fans in general, to field a team that is somewhat representative of a MLB team. That lineup above is Flat-Out Bush League.
Rich.
They are responsible for his current state of devaluation.
They’re really so incredibly short sighted. If they were so “fed up” with Chamberlain, and felt he wasn’t in their plans, the logical gambit would have been to forfeit the bullpen role and tell him to prepare to start. If teams got an inkling he could prosper in a rotation, they might get a bit more for him. What’s he – 27?
And these are the “pitching wins” folks. smh
I saw a ’72 Canada-Russia boble head doll of Bobby Clarke and should have bought it for Alfred. The place was overblown wanting $50 for Bobby; I got Paul Henderson for ten somewheres else.
I wanted to watch the game because of Nova. The rest, not so much…
Eduardo Nunez SS
Brennan Boesch RF
Kevin Youkilis 3B
Juan Rivera 1B
Jayson Nix 2B
Chris Stewart C
Thomas Neal LF
Dan Johnson DH
Melky Mesa CF
“NO way I would pay to see the Yankee lineup above.”
=================================
Why would you? No Ichiro , Jeter, Hafner, Cervelli, Gardner or Cano.
jmills,
I’ve had my good shoulder to the wheel
You really are the Tristan Tzara of Lohud.
Finally have some exhale time and the game is not on anywhere. At least my ‘guins are on, although listening to Mike Emrick is a torture.
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Wish we’d signed Hieronymus Bosch, instead.
Other teams get that a 4 pitch pitcher should be a starter. I don’t even think we need to hint at Joba’s potential to other teams. They likely get it. Hell, Davey Johnson still wants to convert Garcia to a starter, in spite of the injury, once he returns. Not everybody buys into the idea of the bullpen as the place for “fragile” arms.
YF, maybe do what I’m doing – windows open ( nice enough ), music on and I’m happily slaving in the kitchen with Dinah the one and only Washington.
Or- They could start Joba and he could fall flat on his face again further devaluating him.
Trade him for Olt, if Olt is all they say he is.
yankeefem – they get it but they’re going to low ball us, all the same. They can dream of his potential, but they’ll only pay for a middle reliever.
“At least my ‘guins are on, although listening to Mike Emrick is a torture.”
So, were the warm-up green St. Patty jerseys. Not sure which is worse.
And yeah, so many homegrown favorites we have to root for from afar.
Hopefully, Hughes isn’t next.
I’d pay to see Hieronymus, but not Brennan.
I assume a good inning for the Vato!
If the Yanks could get Olt for Joba, that is a deal they should consider. Give Olt 3B and slide Youk over to 1B.
And yes,mas far as claiming Tex is not “tough,” that is silly talk. You can’t swing a bat with that injury. It’s not like football where you can inject a body with cortisone or a painkiller and suit up for 60 minutes.
Maybe Youk can play both first and third?
Alfred, you certainly are classic
Given the day, I really should put on the Pogues, ” Fairytale in New York ” One of the only xmas songs I like, the other is, ” Grandma’ got run over by a reindeer, ” by the Irish Rovers.
Hopefully not. Cashman seems to have a soft spot for Hughes, but Hal controls the checkbook.
jmills,
That ‘Grandma’ song was abused by my older brother, so it wore out its welcome through our Christmases.
yankeefem, 2 ground balls and a K. Good start for Nova.
jmills, Give Melky back. You don’t need him
As for Tex’s “toughness”, I’m just repeating what I’ve heard from inside the organization for the last couple of years.
If Olt is an everyday 3B we would be fools to not try to get him for Joba.
Then, in fact, we would be fools.
Doubt Texas is dumb enough to make that deal for just Joba unless they know he can start, which they don’t.
Unless, they know Olt is not an everyday 3B.
Hughes and Boras will have a say in what Hughes does at cash-in time, since Cash didn’t think to extend Hughes.
tomingeorgia, thanks, sounds good, but I want to see the actual pitches.
2 GB and a K sounds like Vintage Vato. We get that version this year, our pitching will be tight.
And it better be, because it’s going to be walking a tightrope every night!
Youk a 2 run homer in the 1st.
Youkilis is certainly looking good at the plate, at least the little I’ve seen.
Alfred,….I was just about to say I need Cano as well since double A screwed up by sending Hill and Johnny Mac to Arizona for Johnson. After the Gruber affair ( although I liked Gruber,…a lot ), I guess we didn’t need another Kelly even if it is a nice androgynous name.
Youk doubles in Nunez in the 2nd. 2-0 into bottom of the 2nd.
Between Jeter and Nunez we have our RH DH, maybe Jete gets 40 games at DH.
Don’t know how fans can jump the gun and worry about the loss of HR’s from one dimensional hitters like Swisher, Martin, Chavez and Ibanez when they have been replaced by versatile hitters with more intelligent approaches like Youkilis, Ichiro, Gardner ,Hafner + Nunez.
You could get 70-80 HR’s from that group.
Make that 4-0. Sorry.
Tom, you can see the real M640 one of a kind prototype in the London locomotive museum,….I think, don’t hang me on it.
Hughes and Boras will have a say in what Hughes does at cash-in time, since Cash didn’t think to extend Hughes.
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Hughes is a crapshoot from year to year, why would they extend him?
They won’t bring him back with Boras, not with their minor league potential.
yankeefeminista March 17th, 2013 at 1:29 pm
Other teams get that a 4 pitch pitcher should be a starter. I don’t even think we need to hint at Joba’s potential to other teams. They likely get it. Hell, Davey Johnson still wants to convert Garcia to a starter, in spite of the injury, once he returns. Not everybody buys into the idea of the bullpen as the place for “fragile” arms.
————-
Like the Reds with Chapman
Red Sox with Papelbon
Rangers with Feliz and Ogando?
probably get alot of hate for this. But i dont care what Nova does this spring, he should get the 5th spot over Phelps, his stuff is just too good. I like Phelps, but comparisons to Mussina are ridiculous.
jmills March 17th, 2013 at 1:43 pm
Alfred,….I was just about to say I need Cano as well since double A screwed up by sending Hill and Johnny Mac to Arizona for Johnson.
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You can’t have him, sorry
But I’ll take the Melkman back, TY. What’s he hitting, .3something?
yankfan1 – Just because people say Phelps reminds them of Mussina does not mean they equate him with Mussina.
Hell, Jack Cust’s swing has been compared to Ruth’s… ya know what I mean?
I like Phelps fine – good, smart pitcher – but I agree with you that Nova is the higher upside guy, in terms of raw stuff, any way.
Alfred, you can’t blame a girl for trying, right Sylvia?
Boesh has two hits, a stolen base and two runs scored so far,
I like Phelps, but comparisons to Mussina are ridiculous.
======================
Facially, he does remind me of Mussina.
Boesch could have a 2nd life here.
Some players are actually happy to be Yankees.
O’Neill comes to mind…
The Rangers are looking at Joba as a reliever, at least this year, to the Dallas’ newspaper.
Joba would have to be stretched out for next year to start.
I would be wary of Olt if they are willing to give him up for just Joba.
jmills March 17th, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Alfred, you can’t blame a girl for trying, right Sylvia?
///
Sylvia had no quit in her.
I fear for Musty.
I have a weird jazz version of ” viva las vegas” on that sounds like a train going down the track. Must be Tom’s fault.
according to the Dallas’ paper.
Hey all. Another drive-by (on my way to a kids’ birthday party – 2 kids) to say this. I haven’t changed my thoughts at all about what I think the Yanks can accomplish this year but I will say this. It would have been nice to get some hitting in ST. Are they pressing hard due to the compeititon aspect? (You know I have to examine every angle.) I hope that Robby is not going to be expected to carry the team this year. Okay we’ve been without Jeter, Granderson, and Arod, people you figure are going to hit. But I mean come on guys! Let’s show a little life!!
Okay, dat’s all for now.
GO YANKS!!!
That’s my point Alfred, Plath indeed had no quit in her ( and still doesn’t ).
It’s too bad Andujar’s like 17 years old
His swing looks fast and good on video though.
See ya’ Trish, you’re going to need something after that party!
mick- he doesnt really resemble Moose facially, but when they are in the act of pitching they look crazy similar
j alfred- fair point. Mussina was extremely intelligent, and had incredible control with his pitches, which are qualities off Phelps. But ppl forget that Mussina had some filthy stuff, especially the knuckle curve. Phelps doesn’t have any of that, which is why i project as a 4th start at best.
Mick,
The Rangers do have questions about Olt. He has contact issues. He has been playing RF this spring and reportedly doing well.
jmills, I saw a high school student read ‘Blackberries’ in a ‘poetry recitation’ competition on Friday.
Trisha,
If I am a minor leaguer with a chance to make the team, you can bet I’d be pressing. It is a great game and a tough business.
Papelbon didn’t have a third pitch; Reds are trying to convert Chapman to a starter in spite of his preference for closing, and Feliz is going to start once he is ready to return. Ogando needs to improve his changeup if he is to remain a starter, but that is the Rangers plan for Ogando. Obviously most teams will attempt to convert arms with stuff and variety to SP’s, as they are more valuable than RP’s.
Melky Mesa hits a grand slam in the 3rd. 8-0 now.
J. Alfred Prufrock March 17th, 2013 at 2:02 pm
It’s too bad Andujar’s like 17 years old His swing looks fast and good on video though.
_
I can’t wait to see him play when Charleston comes to Lakewood.
Auden’s mullberry bush. Sylvia wrote about a big yew tree.
No way I’d pay to see this lineup, but I would pay to see the lineup we had last October that couldn’t score any runs against the Tigers.
Olt handled one chance in the field. He had two errors in the last three games, a fact that did not escape the Rangers’ notice.
“He’s certainly better than he’s shown,” Ron Washington said of Olt’s defense. “He’s just got to get his heart rate down. … He’s in the mold of a young kid trying to prove something instead of just letting his game play.”
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sounds like they have no room for him.
Phelps will never have the FB Moose in his prime had. Nova has better stuff than Phelps and has the higher upside. But Phelps is a a good pitcher, and can certainly start in backend of a rotation.
is *a good pitcher
yankfan, Moose was special. He gets sort of dissed because he was kind of a sour guy and because we didn’t win one with him, though people forget his heroic 4-inning rescue of Game 7 2003 ALCS from Clemens, and how well he pitched against Oakland in 2001, IIRC and also his big game in the 2001 WS (since we lost, some may have forgotten). It’s too bad, though, that he refused all those years to pitch inside. That’s one good thing Girardi did – convince him to do so, and I guess with waning stuff, he finally conceded and voila, he had that great final season.
The Yanks aren’t hitting in ST?
Haven’t noticed. Not that it’s an issue.
Pruf
They are. They have been bad at prospect development, but it is what it is and it isn’t going to change.
They are also hypocritical. Who is Cashman to question anyone’s character?
JAP,
His stats weren’t great, but the Yankees having Andujar in the GCL at 17 tells us they like him. A third baseman, no less. He is one to watch.
I have a mullberry bush at the edge of the sidewalk that blew in. At first I didn’t know what it was, and being mildly concerned that I might poison some given child on my street, I asked my wise Austrian neighbour Valery what it was. We will all be happily consuming blackberries late spring.
Melky drops a line drive in center. Giveth and taketh.
They are also hypocritical. Who is Cashman to question anyone’s character?
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Oh, but he meanswell
tom, that’s unusual, so he’ll only be “taking” on the other side of the ball. Probably got a case of nerves, since he’s managed to hang around this long and maybe he can taste it.
It’s not the scrubs they lost in the off season they should be concerned about when it comes to losing 94 HR’s, it’s those lost by Arod, Grandy and Tex.
austinmac March 17th, 2013 at 2:10 pm
JAP,
His stats weren’t great, but the Yankees having Andujar in the GCL at 17 tells us they like him. A third baseman, no less. He is one to watch
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Based on a ridiculously small sample – a video – I like him better on first blush than I do Bichette. He’s got an explosive looking swing and a nice trajectory, not at all like Melky Mesa’s
.
I don’t know though, Yanks might not approve that Alex is the kid’s idol.
Moose was my favorite player growing up, yes I’m that young. Such a great pitcher, never got the credit he deserved. He pitched well in the playoffs for the most part. Just wish he stuck around another year or two, Burnett probably doesn’t get signed, he probably gets a ring, and solidifies his HOF bid. I like Phelps alot, but I have a man crush on Nova, the potential is too great for him to not be in the rotation.
“Oh, but he meanswell ”
Irony aside, I thought he once did; I thought he understood the way to build a great franchise and was a humble, smart guy.
But he has become kind of troll toward fans, like with his bs about how the people that hate HR will now get their wish. He realizes that he needs to distort reality to make his points, i.e, a troll.
jmills, you ought to make yourself a blackberry pie or tart.
My Dad made great tarts and pies. Great baker, chef, gardener, golfer, poet, athlete, humanitarian …
I fear Musty might have lost his spot to Boesch or anyone else they still might pickup.
I could see him going to the Rangers with Joba for Olt.
Of course this would make Rivera the everyday 1B which is scary…
Mick, dire straights maybe, but I don’t know if the guy in The Swell Season sounds like Mark Knoffler or however you speel it
I could go to Oxford to look it up but I’m cooking.
JAP,
The Pittsburgh crew say that he actually caught the ball, then dropped it trying for a double play at 1st. The runner thought it had been caught, too, as did everyone but the umps.
I could go to Oxford to look it up but I’m cooking.
====================
got it mills, just keep your head away from the oven.
Rich in NJ March 17th, 2013 at 2:19 pm
“Oh, but he meanswell ”
Irony aside, I thought he once did; I thought he understood the way to build a great franchise and was a humble, smart guy.
But he has become kind of troll toward fans, like with his bs about how the people that hate HR will now get their wish. He realizes that he needs to distort reality to make his points, i.e, a troll.
///
Had me fooled, too. He seems ungrounded. Not even talking about Louise – you put 3 rookies into the rotation, and when it doesn’t work right away, you go completely off in the opposite direction. He also insisted Joba was a starter, then he does an about face. The man has no real convictions – he gets into these faddish ways of thinking, and they just overwhelm his judgment entirely… He’s like a teenager, with that “pitching wins” and Mike Fast bullcrap.
He had a team poised, in 2009 with that championship, to commence a new era of dominance, and instead, he decides he want’s to co-opt Theo’s “run prevention” model and redefine the Yankees as if they play in AT&T Park. Meanwhile, he thinks, in the most literal and crude manner, that you can just load up on hacking left-handed hitters to remain the Yankees.
No wonder he dumbs down wanting a better offense as wanting to reduce “HRS.” He himself doesn’t get the nuances of what makes a well-rounded hitter.
Mick, will do, Ella and Armstrong are singing, ” Autumn in New York,” what are you people doing down there!?
tomingeorgia March 17th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
JAP,
The Pittsburgh crew say that he actually caught the ball, then dropped it trying for a double play at 1st. The runner thought it had been caught, too, as did everyone but the umps.
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Thanks, I should tune in myself. SOunds like he’s a little jumpy out there today.
Pruf
Who’s Mike Fast? I have seen the name, but I have never read his stuff.
I like Phelps alot, but I have a man crush on Nova, the potential is too great for him to not be in the rotation.
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This seems to be one place where the Yankees have some sense. They seem to understand Nova’s potential.
Rich, he’s the guy who is into all that pitch framing stuff Cashman is so zealous over.
Yankeefem knows more about him than I do.
JAP and Rich,
I agree with you both on Cashman. I used to support him, but not any longer as he is a mean spirited jerk in many of his communications. Part of his job is public relations. Instead of helping relations he treats us as morons not understanding his grand dumpster diving plan of getting players everyone else didn’t want and crowing if one actually is decent.
Here you go, Rich:
http://www.fangraphs.com/libra.....r-defense/
Things to Remember:
? While FanGraphs does not yet account for pitch framing, Mike Fast has made some remarkable strides measuring a catcher’s pitch framing ability. If you’re interested, be sure to check out his research.
? Next to RPP, you will also see the stat Calculated Passed Pitches (CPP). This is another statistic derived from Bojan’s research, and it measures how many passed balls a catcher should have allowed based on his pitches seen.
I’m glad I’ve got double A,….even if he did get rid of Hill. AA still isn’t in Pat Gillick land,…yet. I’m going to have to sit Pat and Halladay down to discuss the inherant problem of going to Philly.
Nova hits a bump in the 4th. two doubles, hit batsman, 3 runs. 8- into 5th.
8-3
Fast was a writer/saber analyst/fx dude who wrote for BP and Hardball Times. He did a ton of “quantitative” catching defense analysis. Articles like: http://www.baseballprospectus......leid=15093 (with links to his previous articles). Fast was recently hired by the Astros as a baseball analyst. I bet Cashman, an advocate, was sorry he let Fast get away.
Don’t read too much into the Joba for Olt rumors and consider the source.
Olt is younger, has six years of control and Texas will not trade him straight up for someone with varying results as a reliever, in a walk year, turning 27 when they know he’s likely free at the end of the year.
Tom, there’s a job for you in radio. If Jack Morris didn’t surface to be the sidekick up here, you could’ve had a job !
….personally, I’d rather have Dave Stieb.
austinmac,
His pettiness and lack of professionalism when “dialoguing” with the fanbase just betrays how disempowered he feels; and I don’t just mean because Hal controls the purse strings.
What kind of high-ranking executive exchanges snide salvos with the fanbase like this? This is not a guy I want out there on the edge, making decisions. He has no self-possession.
Thanks, Pruf, yf
Catcher’s defense is important, and any attempt to quantify it is fine, as long as one keeps context (ant theory) in mind.
Like any position, it’s still about offense/defense not zero/defense.
I will take a positional offensive advantage with up the middle players over pretty much anything in baseball.
Now 8-4 on a home to right by somebody wearing 90+
AC/DC – ” Live Wire ” live from the Atlantic studios in New York! ( About ’76 )
Rich, that’s the problem, lack of context, lack of perspective.
It’s like, rather than being a solid baseball executive, he’s a neophyte, toying with these “neat” new concepts, not using them to amplify or illuminate a solid, well-rounded plan. He’s a “true believer,” type.
Crap,…dicing garlic takes such a long temps,….but its worth it! Damn the girlfriends!
Melky, on on an error, steals 2nd with ease.
Just got home from errands and read Chad’s report.
Mesa with GS???!!?? Yes! Love the base running. Love it.
Oh, and I see right above me it’s now 8-4. How is Nova doing?
Melky’s grounder changed to a base hit.
Id be surprised if the Rangers would give Olt for one year of Joba…..but if they would that’s a deal the Yanks kinda have to do. You take the potential solution at 3B that’s controlled for 6 years and then try to find a reliever if needed at the deadline……would hate to part with Joba….but objectively that’s a deal the Yanks would have to make .
Looks like my one run prediction was short today….good job offense
So, do you think that cutting Diaz energized Mesa?
Boesh now 2-3 with a sac fly. 9-4.
The article Rosenthal has up is really frightening regarding Tex’s injury. Makes me think that the best thing for him might be to have the surgery and sit out the season.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/s.....ous-030913
Chip-
Even w/o the article that was my 1st reaction.
They always tend to play it conservative 1st. Surgery is seen as a last resort for most things.
Bon Scott just said something to the effect of, ” you all live in New York City? ” In their own inimitable way, AC/DC just broke into, ” Hell ain’t a bad place to be. ”
This Tex injury is bad news….seems destined to end in surgery the way he swings …… Sucks because they really really couldn’t afford to lose anymore offense
Unless Joba is a Closer or setup Man he has no future on the Yankees.
He’s already getting expensive for a reliever.
Yeah, I would think the Rangers would more than one year of Joba. Though he may be the centerpiece of a trade that includes other parts.
Olt would certainly be a nice fit. Young cost-controlled bat w power.
When the False Melky connects, the ball really travels. Problem is, he can’t make contact often enough.
They might decide, though, that his fast bat and pop will still be worth having to endure the air swings, when you consider the D he brings. Not like they have earth shattering alternatives.
Rich, I will take Po, Jeet, Bernie as my up the middle nucleus any day of the week. I agree that catcher D is important, but not to the extent that the catcher O advantage is not only downgraded, but negated. Although I understand it in theory, I still have trouble trusting in practice something so unquantifiable as runs saved. And hard to stomach the rhetoric and lack of awareness of the historical advantage/value of a catcher who provides obscene O. What a luxury!
Now Bon Scott is talking about how it happens all the time in a city like New York – ” Dog eat Dog “. Wonderful, and there’s still a chance for Bach next.
If Joba + and a 2nd tier prospect can get Olt then the Yanks need to do that both now and for the future
Nova’s line: 5 IP,4 runs, 6 hits, 2 BB, 4K.
Blake-
Seems like Texeira has problems w the wrist for years.
Previously just inflammation. Maybe indicators or precursors of what has now happened.
The Melkito Fakerito can definitely kill a fastball. That we have witnessed many times. Doesn’t Olt also have trouble hitting breaking balls?
Pruf, speaking of Andujar, sounds like he killed some pitches in Intersquad yesterday.
If the odds are significant Teixiera is going to miss the season, Cashman cannot say they can’t add a significant player. They must, if possible. I don’t know if it possible. Doubtful at this juncture.
tomingeorgia March 17th, 2013 at 3:16 pm
Nova’s line: 5 IP,4 runs, 6 hits, 2 BB, 4K.
_______________
Groundouts-flyouts: Nova 5-3
YF,
Where are you getting minor league intra squad game information? Impressive.
Pruf, speaking of Andujar, sounds like he killed some pitches in Intersquad yesterday.
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I saw that. Did you see Sanchez homered off Campos?
jmills March 17th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
Now Bon Scott is talking about how it happens all the time in a city like New York – ” Dog eat Dog “. Wonderful, and there’s still a chance for Bach next.
____
Don’t forget “concrete jungle where dreams are made of. There’s nothing you can’t do. Now you’re in New York!!!”
tom, YF, did they say how many pitches he threw?
austinmac, PPP has the info.
They should do the surgery now, but they won’t.
austinmac, PP and also my buddy in Tampa. But the latter’s stuff I tend not to post unless it is about to become common knowledge because I get inside info.
JAP,
They didn’t say, and nothing about it in the box score.
Ok. Thanks.
blake March 17th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
If Joba + and a 2nd tier prospect can get Olt then the Yanks need to do that both now and for the future
///
I have no idea how good Olt is, having not seen much of him, so I can’t match your zeal. But it does seem as though Joba is just spinning his wheels here. Still, if he goes somewhere and shuts it down as a starter like his promise said he could in 2008, they’ll have gotten squat in return.
*PSP, that is.
Thanks, tom. Doesn’t sound like he threw a ton, judging by other descriptors.
Yes, Pruf saw that. Somewhere I read Campos’ velo was down. Also saw in BP’s list, comments section that Parks wasn’t overly impressed with Pineda, among others, but there wasn’t much elucidation. He put JRam in top 5, which was expected based on rumors. Here is the list and link.
Prospect rankings primer
The Top Ten
1. C Gary Sanchez
2. CF Mason Williams
3. RHP Jose A. Ramirez
4. OF Slade Heathcott
5. OF Tyler Austin
6. RHP Ty Hensley
7. 2B Angelo Gumbs
8. RHP Jose Campos
9. RHP Mark Montgomery
10. RHP Rafael De Paula
http://www.baseballprospectus......leid=19887
JAP,
Until the 4th nova was very efficient.
They were going to use Olt to get a SP, such as Dickey or so they hoped. I doubt Joba and a lower tier prospect get it done.
I don’t know Nova’s pitch count off the top of my head, but at one point something like 15/16 pitches were strikes, I believe.
Welcome to the jungle YF! Man, its beautiful out today in the Armpit of Ontario, Hamilton.
Rich in NJ says:
March 17, 2013 at 3:22 pm
They should do the surgery now, but they won’t.
Cashman said that surgery would end his season though so if that’s true then there really is no benefit to doing it now…..I guess just try to avoid it…..if they could do the surgery now and he’d be fixed by July then yes they should go ahead
Nova cannot be trusted.
He will crack at some time during the season.
Hughes is always a question mark.
I would say, at this point, until proven otherwise, Phelps is the most reliable and consistent of the 3.
Am hoping they DL Hughes so Phelps can get a fair shot.
“I have no idea how good Olt is, having not seen much of him, so I can’t match your zeal. But it does seem as though Joba is just spinning his wheels here. Still, if he goes somewhere and shuts it down as a starter like his promise said he could in 2008, they’ll have gotten squat in return”
here is the thing….we have to forget about what Joba used to be or what he was supposed or even what he still could be because it really doesn’t matter…..all that matters is what he is and the Yanks plan for him….and right now he’s pretty much a middle reliever that’s probably leaving at the end of the 2013 season.
I’ve seen Olt play a couple of times and while I don’t think he will be a star…..and that he does have some holes (mainly contact skills)….he still could be a cheap long term regular at a premium position for the Yankees and he plays a spot they direly need.
It’s a deal they would have to make….even if they had to kick in a prospect on the Flores or Marshall level IMO
Pruf, Nova = 36 pitches, 29 strikes, 7 balls (21 batters).
blake
There are two reasons to do it now, imo (given the track record of non-surgical recovery by seemingly everyone with the same injury except Ortiz, according to Axisa via Rosenthal):
1) To achieve as full a recovery as possible for 2014/avoid further injury if he does come back;
2) To stop pretending that there isn’t an urgency to get another big bat (if they are seriously going to compete for the WS this season).
Parks really favors upside in his rankings….and based on that his list makes sense
Rich,
fair enough…..I do think however that if they cut Tex’s season off right now then it’s going to be extremely hard for them to muster enough offense without a bold move or two…..Cashman may be forced to kinda punt 2013 (at least in player moves) and look towards the future….or really try to swing a big trade for an impact player that’ll hurt in order to compete this year.
It just seems this thing is destined to end in surgery…..Tex’s swing puts a lot of force on that wrist and I could certainly see him thinking its fine then coming back and hurting it again quickly…..sucks….Swisher would come in handy right now
I prefer when lists are based on upside. The other type of list is kind of worthless.
Bucs announcers saying that the Yankees are going to have a huge hole at catcher with Martin gone, but I have to say, with Martin hitting ca. .140 this spring and always looking close to the bottom falling out of his offensive gave, I think he is likely to be a huge disappointment this year.
Blake-
I don’t know Olt as well as you but your analysis makes sense.
And your thoughts on how the Yankees view Joba seem accurate.
Only way he’d get to stick around is if he emerged this season as either a closer candidate, or setup man.
D-Rob is the #1 guy in line to replace Mo next year.
Personally I don’t think Chamberlain has the temperament to close.
Mongomery might be coming on fast too. He might windup as a a late inning type guy.
Prospect rankings should be partially based on actual results in my opinion. A 5 tool guy that has been in the system for 5 years putzing around isn’t a top prospect compared to a non-5 tool guy thats tearing up AA.
I’ve seen Olt play a couple of times and while I don’t think he will be a star…..and that he does have some holes (mainly contact skills)….he still could be a cheap long term regular at a premium position for the Yankees and he plays a spot they direly need.
It’s a deal they would have to make….even if they had to kick in a prospect on the Flores or Marshall level IMO
///
Doesn’t have good contact skills? Sounds like Cash’s kind of player. I’m all for youth, not that the Yanks know how to guide it. They could use a young 3B – a young ANYTHING – how is his range? Jeter’s going to be 39.
I won’t include Flores, though. He’s going to be a very good left-handed hitter. Marshall I would sooner part with, because we have better arms. But honestly, the idea of a RHB with pop and not much contact ability isn’t all that appealing.
“Prospect rankings should be partially based on actual results in my opinion. A 5 tool guy that has been in the system for 5 years putzing around isn’t a top prospect compared to a non-5 tool guy thats tearing up AA.”
I kinda agree….I think production does matter more than it’s given credit for because it shows actual things happening. Ability and tools are always important but there is a point where that has to translate on the field for it to mean anything…..if I were ranking the Yanks prospects then Austin would probably be in the top 3…..simply because I love his swing and approach and because he’s actually performed like a top prospect….I love upside and dreaming on players but they gotta do it to
Results with context though, which doesn’t happen enough. As someone who actually goes to watch prospects there are so many qualifiers. For example, people would have said last year that JR was stinking up AA with his bat. But as someone who watched his games, he had excellent AB’s in a pitchers park, and I said he would hit. I don’t think it is a fluke that he had a very good ST. And his D has looked really good. Ditto, many other players, especially pitchers who are often working on certain pitches and not allowed to throw others, or don’t get the chance to work out of trouble, etc. There are so many qualifiers that your average writer who is ranking prospects doesn’t include.
Mick-
IMO the thing that separates Phelps from some of other guys are his IQ and command.
Not saying the others aren’t intelligent just that Phelps is exceptionally so. Knows what he is doing out there. Advanced approach and ability to execute it.
Nova is a bulldog but lacks consistency at times. Great raw stuff though.
Hughes is bright but his once famous command has deserted him, is injury-prone, and he has yet to master that elusive 3rd pitch.
“Doesn’t have good contact skills? Sounds like Cash’s kind of player”
Could be an issue….but he also walks a lot or did in the minors and he has power and can play 3b…..you’re not getting Evan longoria in a trade so you get the best you can. Olt is a top 50 prospect at an position the Yanks have nothing in sight at…..
I’d be hesitant to part with Marshall. I think he will be better than Warren. Give them Warren instead.
Contact issues are a problem, but he did walk a lot and his splits are pretty good.
“There are so many qualifiers that your average writer who is ranking prospects doesn’t include.”
Of course …that’s how Robbie Cano’s never make a top 100 list and end up getting .340 in the big leagues….they aren’t perfect and there is at least some group think to these things too
yankeefeminista says:
March 17, 2013 at 3:53 pm
I’d be hesitant to part with Marshall. I think he will be better than Warren. Give them Warren instead.
Yea …Texas likely thinks the same though if their scouts are any good
By the way, I’d just as soon give the spot to Adams to either keep warm for someone like Andujar or Bichette down the road, or to let his bat take sovereign control of. He doesn’t have great pop, but it doesn’t seem to bother them that our left and right fielders do not.
I guess I am also just too disgusted with how Chamberlain has been thoroughly wasted. Wasted.
I just have read too many analyses criticizing a pitcher’s curveball because it is off the night said ranker attends. I could give multiple examples. Just would like to see the rankers do their homework, and get varied opinions rather than their same three sources if they are going to do rankings.
“By the way, I’d just as soon give the spot to Adams to either keep warm for someone like Andujar or Bichette down the road”
Adams can’t stay healthy and guys like Dante are years away if they ever make it at all though
I have to say, from some of the scouting stuff you read and then when you go see the guy and it just doesn’t add up, these lists have become basically meaningless. They’re fun, but I’ve come not to expect much.
YF-
I’m with you. Marshall looks to be a Zach McAllister type on steroids.
Better than Warren at this point. Likely better in the longrun too.
I actually thought Warren was going to be better than he has shown.
At one point he ranked at least as high, if not higher than Phelps.
Phelps emerged. Warren hasn’t so far.
I agree that Joba has little value in our system. It is sad, is what it is. and of course we will deal him for something. It’s just too bad his value is low when it could be worth more. What a waste of talent.
IMO the thing that separates Phelps from some of other guys are his IQ and command.
Not saying the others aren’t intelligent just that Phelps is exceptionally so. Knows what he is doing out there. Advanced approach and ability to execute it.
Nova is a bulldog but lacks consistency at times. Great raw stuff though.
=================
MTU
I don’t see Nova as the bulldog that Phelps is.
Nova has better stuff but Phelps seems more persistent.
Take a look at the pic of Phelps a thread or 2 ago and see a bulldog.
At this point I see Nova as an underachiever with mental lapses.
Phelps, maybe an overachiever, underrated guy who needs a chance.
“I guess I am also just too disgusted with how Chamberlain has been thoroughly wasted. Wasted.”
He has been for the most part….some due to injury….some to mis-management …..etc…,but again that doesn’t really matter now because its over and done with
MTU, Marshall had 3 bona fide pitches including an excellent change, and is working on a fourth pitch. If Marshall’s slider continues to evolve, watch out. Warren’s secondary stuff can be fringy. I just like Marshall better and think he is more talented.
*has 3
The only reason Joba has the hype was his unbelievable debut as a reliever.
Lets face it, he’s gone next year, to try again as a starter.
Best thing would be to trade him, and with the Tex news ,can see it happening before the opener.
I’m not sure Adams can’t stay healthy as much as he is maybe still recovering from the ankle, but his health is a valid concern. He didn’t seem hampered last year is all I can say. His bat was really good and he did a sound job at third. I also don’t see why Youkilis, with all his health problems, at 34, isn’t an injury risk, but a 25 year old who was healthy last year is. It’s all relative; why not get something out of Adams, who after all was reportedly the player who stalled the (gulp) Montero for Lee deal due to the ankle.
“I agree that Joba has little value in our system.”
Both Robertson and Rivera were on the DL last season. Robertson has had shoulder stiffness this spring (could be nothing, but who knows?) and Rivera for all his greatness is rehabbing knee surgery and is nearing his mid-40s.
Now, maybe Olt is worth it (I haven’t seen him play), but are we really going to just throw away Joba right now given the risks in the pen?
If trading Joba for Olt were a setup for later packaging him and others to SD for Headley, then I’d do it. But I doubt that Olt is the long-term answer in NY at 3B.
Joba is expendable however. And Hughes will be gone. There were three, and then there were none…
So now a bona fide starter has to have 4 pitches?
I must have missed that memo….
“I have to say, from some of the scouting stuff you read and then when you go see the guy and it just doesn’t add up, these lists have become basically meaningless. They’re fun, but I’ve come not to expect much.”
I think they do a good job recognizing the top talents…..that parts pretty easy….it’s not hard to see that Dylan Bundy and Profar are good…..I kinda think down the list is where it gets tougher and where it’s harder to distinguish guys…..
It’s hard ….we are talking about thousands of players with all sorts of variables….it’s fun to read lists though
Now, maybe Olt is worth it (I haven’t seen him play), but are we really going to just throw away Joba right now given the risks in the pen?
–
Reliever for a top 100 position player that is ready to play in the majors? Yes. 100 times yes.
I dont care about theoretical injuries to our bullpen, we have very real injuries to our 1st baseman that may put him out for the year.
Atleast now they can put Tex on the 60 day DL.
Mick-
Understood. He is versatile and determined. Whatever they challenge him with he finds a way to succeed.
Don’t think Phelps is an overachiever. His pitching IQ, command, and mix of offerings all point to success.
I think Ivan has lot’s of determination. He’s come a long way from his early roots in the Dominican.
His problem remains the same as it always has been IMO. He loses command of his FB.
That is the key to to his success. If he cannot control the FB consistently he won’t reach his cieling.
Nova is a bulldog but sometimes doesn’t have the command. Interesting to see how the new mechanics work. I’m sorry we didn’t get to watch him today. Sounds like he was commanding his stuff well, throwing strikes. Phelps is a more polished pitcher, but Nova has better stuff.
There were three, and then there were none…
======================
There never were 3.
The media likes to make up stories. It’s there job to do so.
Who would have predicted Jeter Andy Mo and Jorge, no less Bernie doing what they did.
Usually they come out of nowhere.
Texas won’t trade Olt for a reliever, unless they envision Joba as a covert talent and want to convert him to a SP, they won’t make that deal one on one.
There is gonna be a lot of pressure on the pitching staff early this year….hope they respond well to it
yankeefeminista says:
March 17, 2013 at 4:04 pm
Texas won’t trade Olt for a reliever, unless they envision Joba as a covert talent and want to convert him to a SP, they won’t make that deal one on one.
Yea I think the yanks would have to sweeten the pot
There never were 3.
—–
Hughes, Joba, Kennedy.
Reliever for a top 100 position player that is ready to play in the majors? Yes. 100 times yes.
_
That’s why I am more willing to trade a fully-valued Roberston.
His problem remains the same as it always has been IMO. He loses command of his FB.
That is the key to to his success. If he cannot control the FB consistently he won’t reach his cieling.
===============
Didn’t I once teach you ow to spell ceiling?
Isn’t what you just said equivalent to mental lapses by Nova.
Lack of concentration, confidence.
Phelps does not seem to lack either.
I think they could get more for Nova and should give Phelps his shot.
—–
Hughes, Joba, Kennedy.
==============
know who you were referring to but my point is they were figments of some writers imaginations.
“That’s why I am more willing to trade a fully-valued Roberston.”
Id trade him….would need a good return though….more than Olt
blake March 17th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
“Doesn’t have good contact skills? Sounds like Cash’s kind of player”
Could be an issue….but he also walks a lot or did in the minors and he has power and can play 3b…..you’re not getting Evan longoria in a trade so you get the best you can. Olt is a top 50 prospect at an position the Yanks have nothing in sight at…..
///
Of course not, but if we’re talking about the present, we are sorely deficient contact types. I guess it depends on how much power he has and how much he can walk. If he’s a RH Adam Dunn at 3B, sure, you’d have to think about that. I just have no idea what he projects as, so I can’t really argue for acquiring him or not. Just generally, we do need some people who can put the bat on the ball. As it is, they’re apparently leaning more toward taking Mesa instead of Mustelier, and that’s kind of troubling, even though Mesa’s the Man on defense.
“Hughes is bright but his once famous command has deserted him, is injury-prone, and he has yet to master that elusive 3rd pitch.”
mtu-
all they need to do is teach hughes the fast change up that’s learned in three weeks in spring training. you know the one they were teaching pineda so he could be a #2 in april last year.
they’ve been teaching hughes the slow third pitch… the one that takes three years to learn.
why some people think a pitcher can just learn a new pitch in a few weeks is beyond me, though some pitchers do. the reality is it can take years to really learn a new pitch and master it.
i haven’t been watching. are the yankees still boring? still bad? wake me up when something interesting happens
Game day does not do accurate pitch counts in the spring. Pay no attention to it.
“I I just have no idea what he projects as, so I can’t really argue for acquiring him or not”
Yea just depends on price…..if its Joba + a little more then Im doing it because it’s worth the risk…..
YF,
I believe it is our unwritten bloggers’ code to share all inside information. Since I never have any, I make that pledge. We love tips, hints and whispers. Thank you in advance for violating your friend’s confidence.
YF-
I’ll trade an oz. of command for a pint of raw stuff.
And I’ll also take pitching IQ and ability to execute over the assortment.
Phelps stuff is plenty good enough when combined with his other virtues.
I wish Ivan had consistent command because when he does he is deadly.
He only seems to be able to do it for stretches rather than whole seasons.
I too hope the new mechanics help. He has everything else.
if its Joba + a little more then Im doing it because it’s worth the risk…..
================
joba + a little more could mean our precious Musty.
Happy Yeats,Amergin, Sedulius, St. Patrick, MacConglinne, Angus O’Gillan etc – poets never die!
MTU
Is consistent command, i.e. mental lapses, something that can be taught?
If not or if it comes with age and/or maturity, can we wait?
He might be someone we can get a lot for if we knew what we were looking for.
Maybe Giancarlo ?
Randy-
No. Hal still has the wallet under lock and key, and that’s the way it’s gonna stay for the forseeable future.
This is a year(s) of transition.
Jump in your Time Machine and set it for 4/2015.
Back to sleep now.
i haven’t been watching. are the yankees still boring? still bad? wake me up when something interesting happens
===============
isn’t that the definition of a frontrunner?
“joba + a little more could mean our precious Musty.”
Woukd do that without hesitation…musty is a great story and I hope he makes the team but he’s 28 years old (at least) and isn’t a long term option defensively at 3B….
Woukd do that without hesitation…musty is a great story and I hope he makes the team but he’s 28 years old (at least) and isn’t a long term option defensively at 3B….
==============================
If its not good enough for you then what would Texas think?
What do they need?
Mick-
I was in favor of moving one of the guys + for an impact player at a position of need.
Remember I was a JU guy.
Too bad we couldn’t make that happen.
But heck yeah I’ll take Stanton. He’s better.
This is a year(s) of transition.
==================
Thought that was the next year or 2?
If its not good enough for you then what would Texas think?
What do they need?”
Pitching
Musty is 28, fills a glaring need, and still isn’t assured of any ML PT here. I would move him.
MTU
Stanton seems destined to leave Fla and NY would likely be his choice.
Package Nova, Nunez and Banuelos/Betances and see if they bite.
would Texas do Joba and Betances for Olt?
“Package Nova, Nunez and Banuelos/Betances and see if they bite.”
They might laugh but def not bite
Musty doesn’t fill the need of f/t 3B if Rivera can play 1st.
jmills March 17th, 2013 at 4:15 pm
Happy Yeats,Amergin, Sedulius, St. Patrick, MacConglinne, Angus O’Gillan etc – poets never die!
///
James Joyce
mick says:
March 17, 2013 at 4:25 pm
would Texas do Joba and Betances for Olt?
Maybe I dunno….guess it would depend how much they want Joba and if they thought they could fix Betances
Mick-
I think the transition is underway already. Defintely next year uless Hal relents. Possibly the year after.
I am very ready to open up the vault to get a player of Stanton’s caliber.
What you offered would likely not be enough. The competition for him would be fierce.
What makes you think NY would be a preferred destination for him ?
Is he a tri-state area kid ? The fact that the Yankees have a tradition of winning ? Future moolah ?
mtu-
i haven’t been so excited since horace clarke came up in 1965.
of course horace had a ten year mlb career.
that might be pushing it for this year’s prospects.
by the time mustelier comes up and finishes a ten year mlb career he’ll be 51.
Maybe I dunno….guess it would depend how much they want Joba and if they thought they could fix Betances
================
or if they think olt is overhyped/not needed with beltre at 3B
What makes you think NY would be a preferred destination for him ?
=============================
Some players used to covet the NY spotlight, not as much anymore, MTU.
I don’t know what Stantons makeup is but he looks like a wannabe superstar to me.
“or if they think olt is overhyped/not needed with beltre at 3B”
He’s blocked….and probably is overhyped ( or was) but that doesn’t mean he’s not worth looking at
Randy-
The MiLB guys are all gonna rot on the vine if the Yankees don’t give them a chance.
Ronnier is really ripe. He’s in danger of spoiling.
I think he’s earned a shot. Not sure the Yankees think so.
The luster came off Musty with his injury and the coming of Boesch.
Maybe the stars aren’t aligned for the guy, maybe the Yanks have bigger fish in mind to fry.
Something else will go down before the Opener, mark my words.
There would be a number of teams interested in Olt. I would guess it would take Joba and Marshall. Remember Marshall looked good this spring, and I like him, he is in no ones top 10 or top 100 prospects. Olt has been good all three years in the minors.
I would do it considering the possibility Olt is both a short and long term need filled at low financial cost.
I am still hoping Mustelier makes the team, but the roster crunch is against him.
Mick-
Stanton could be a Superstar in a lot of venues and get very rich.
Of course NY is the Ultimate stage and maybe the ultimate challenge.
Takes a special player to reach real Stardom there. Is he one of those guys ?
I have no idea.
If they are platooning Francisco and Boesch, then it could come down to Nix or Musty.
I don’t think they look at him as a savior at the bat and will lean toward the versatility of Nix.
A lot depends on Rivera at 1st as they would have to spot Nix at 3B if Rivera slumps or can’t field the position adequately.
Got to run.
Try to stop back in a while.
I just watched some video of Olt, he looked pretty compact actually on one video and had a nice hit away, also worked back from a 1-2 count to full before K’ing. On yet another, he was sort of lurching forward and opening his stance and had a little hitch under the ball when he swung. You can see his hands are pretty quick, though.
Then I watched Machado. Let’s trade Joba for him, instead
“Then I watched Machado. Let’s trade Joba for him, instead ”
Lol….yes lets !
It’s sad to say, but I’m more excited about watching Wieters/Machado/Jones/Bundy than I am my own players.
Nobody is good enough for this team unless they are castaway from some other team.
They used to be looked at as missing pieces but now are viewed as bottle lightning.
We will not spend money which brings me to Youk.
They had to know Alex was not coming back when they gave him 12m.
Ichiro’s another story.
blake March 17th, 2013 at 4:42 pm
“Then I watched Machado. Let’s trade Joba for him, instead ”
Lol….yes lets !
///
THey can even have m-m-m-more than Joba
does adrian beltre make the hall of fame if he has 45 homers and 3000 hits ?
he’s only 33 . he might actually hit those totals.
450 homers
Mick: “Don’t know how fans can jump the gun and worry about the loss of HR’s from one dimensional hitters like Swisher, Martin, Chavez and Ibanez when they have been replaced by versatile hitters with more intelligent approaches like Youkilis, Ichiro, Gardner ,Hafner + Nunez.
You could get 70-80 HR’s from that group.”
Wow. First off, they didn’t “replace” Swisher, Martin, Chavez and Ibanez with Youk, Ichiro, Gardner, Hafner and Nunez. Half of those guys were with the Yanks last year. They replaced Martin with nobody (ok, Cervelli), Swisher with Gardner, basically, since he missed most of the year with an injury, Ibanez with Hafner, and Chavez with … Mustelier? We don’t even have an answer for that yet. And Youk replaces ARod. Compare the offensive production.
And, if you really think we’re going to get 70-80 homers from that group, I want what you’re smoking. Seriously, you think Ichiro is hitting 20 homers? Even 15? That’s delusional. If Youk hits 20, I’d be happy. If Hafner hits 20, I’d be ecstatic, (the guy is an injury waiting to happen). Nunez and Gardner are not home run hitters. Getting a combined 10 from them is probably a stretch. If Nunez even makes the team, it’s as a utility infielder and possibly sometime RH DH.
And calling the guys who’ve gone “one dimensional” simply because they’re not on the team anymore is ludicrous. How was Swisher one-dimensional? Or Ibanez, easily far and away our best clutch hitter last season. And yet Hafner isn’t one dimensional? Maybe Martin was one dimensional offensively, but the catchers we have now are none dimensional at the plate. At least Martin hit some homers and got some big clutch hits.
I’ve seen some ridiculous things on this blog this ST (like a claim that Gardner could hit 15 HRs and win the MVP this year. Ha!). Man, there are rose-colored glasses and then there’s complete rose-colored blindness.
As for the roster, barring any further moves, it looks pretty clear that Rivera is going to be the short-term replacement for Tex at first, unless you somehow think Dan Johnson is making this team in spite of his hitless spring. Boesch and Francisco both look like they’ll be on the roster until Granderson comes back. That leaves room for 3 more bench players, 2 after you add the backup catcher. If you carry Nunez, you need to also carry a backup third baseman. Mustelier or Nix. My guess is it would be Nix, because of his versatility and experience.
randy, if Beltre reaches 3000 hits, he’s a shoe-in. That’s a magic number. At least, it always has been.