Postgame notes: Phelps rocky in next-to-last spring start
Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 21, 2013 
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Exactly one year ago, David Phelps was in a Tampa hospital, a few hours away from the birth of his daughter. That’s the personal story. The professional story is that one year ago Phelps had never pitched an inning in the big leagues, wasn’t sure the Yankees would have a roster spot for him, and still had some doubts about whether he could perform at the big league level.
“I’m more comfortable as far as going out and knowing I can do this,” Phelps said. “It’s just a matter of going out and doing it now. Last year there was still a little bit of uncertainty whether or not I was capable of doing it. I hadn’t. Coming in this year, they’re definitely that comfort level knowing I’ve had a little bit of success and hopefully carry it over.”
That’s why it’s a little easier to dismiss an outing like this one. Phelps legitimately struggled tonight. He’d been sharp most of the spring, with relatively minor hiccups here and there. Tonight, he was in trouble most of the game, escape some early jams and finally had things fall apart in a five-run fourth inning. All told, Phelps allowed six hits, three walks and struck out six through 3.2 innings.
“I thought he struggled with his command today,” Joe Girardi said.
“Early on got some big strikeouts with guys on,” Phelps said. “But in those situations, I was getting strikeouts, but those guys were seeing five, six pitches. Next time through the lineup, they’ve seen everything, so they’re getting a little bit better look next time through.”
Phelps will get one more start this spring — probably next Wednesday, after CC Sabathia pitches Tuesday — and at this point, it’s hard to think he won’t be on the roster in one capacity or another.
“He’s a young, under-control starter, so I’ve heard his name quite often (in trade talks),” Brian Cashman said. “I’m not looking to move him. I’m only looking to move the bad stuff.”
• Chien-Ming Wang did, in fact, throw a bullpen for scouts at the minor league complex today.
• Slight change in plans for Travis Hafner, who will not make the road trip tomorrow and will instead play at the minor league complex just to get more at-bats. He can hit every inning in a minor league game, and I’ve even seen guys play in two minor league games at the same time, going back and forth between fields to get a dozen or so at-bats in a day.
• Welcome back Robinson Cano, who had the Yankees only hit in this 6-1 loss to the Twins. Cano is going to play again tomorrow. Girardi said he doesn’t feel any need to back off with Cano after the World Baseball Classic.
• Kevin Youkilis seemed to be stretching a lot after going first to third on a fourth-inning error, and Youkilis was pulled from the game the very next inning. Suspicious, but Youkilis said it was a non-issue. “I’m all good,” he said.
• And speaking of false alarms, Hafner was icing his right wrist after the game, but he said he ices the wrist every other day or so just as a precaution. He had some trouble with it way back in 2001 and has iced it regularly ever since.
• All good for Boone Logan, who made his second appearance of the spring and said his elbow felt just fine. He did, however, allow a run on a walk and a hit.
• Phil Hughes will pitch in a minor league game tomorrow, which gives him time to make three starts — including tomorrow’s — before the Yankees would need him in the big league rotation. That might be enough time for Hughes to be ready, but the Yankees seem prepared to hold back and let Hughes skip a start rather than hurry to get him ready to break camp. “That’s something that we really have to look at,” Girardi said. “Let’s just see how he does these next two turns and then we’ll make a decision, but as I told him, worst case scenario is maybe you miss one start.”
• Clay Rapada could throw a flat-ground bullpen this weekend, but it seems very unlikely that he’ll actually break camp with the team. “I think it’s a small possibility,” Girardi said. “But it’s something that we’ve got to see how he progresses. It’s getting kind of late now.”
• Random A-Rod update: Cashman said Alex Rodriguez is still doing physical therapy and has yet to do any sort of baseball activity since his hip surgery. “I text him about once a week,” Girardi said. “He says his rehab is going well. He feels pretty good. He’s doing more and more every week I talk to him.”
• Mariano Rivera allowed a leadoff single, then struck out three in a row. It’s what he does.
Associated Press photos
“He’s a young, under-control starter, so I’ve heard his name quite often (in trade talks),” Brian Cashman said. “I’m not looking to move him. I’m only looking to move the bad stuff.”
–
Ahem, I hope this means he will be starting.
Cano going on the road for a spring game? Yanks really don’t like their stars playing in WBC.
“He’s a young, under-control starter, so I’ve heard his name quite often (in trade talks),” Brian Cashman said. “I’m not looking to move him. I’m only looking to move the bad stuff.”
What’s the bad stuff? He talking about Nunez again…..
This team would have been in a pretty sweet place if no trades were made in recent years: AJack, Melky, Montero, IPK
Rich in NJ says:
March 21, 2013 at 10:56 pm
This team would have been in a pretty sweet place if no trades were made in recent years: AJack, Melky, Montero, IPK
Either that or Scranton would be loaded
Ouch.
That is beyond dispute.
Bud has turned into Wile E Coyote.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03.....&_r=0
Anyone watching the Mariners Cubs game?
Jerkface March 21st, 2013 at 10:51 pm
“He’s a young, under-control starter, so I’ve heard his name quite often (in trade talks),” Brian Cashman said. “I’m not looking to move him. I’m only looking to move the bad stuff.”
–
Ahem, I hope this means he will be starting.
——————
As opposed to who?
J. Alfred Prufrock March 21st, 2013 at 11:03 pm
Anyone watching the Mariners Cubs game?
———————
Outside of Mariner and Cub fans I don’t think anyone would watch a Mariners Cubs game in the regular season much less spring training.
Rich in NJ March 21st, 2013 at 10:56 pm
This team would have been in a pretty sweet place if no trades were made in recent years: AJack, Melky, Montero, IPK
——————–
I’m excited for the angst next year when the Mariners come to Yankee Stadium with Joba starting and Montero catching him.
“I’m not looking to move him. I’m only looking to move the bad stuff.”
///
You can certainly take your pick, in that case.
“He’s a young, under-control starter, so I’ve heard his name quite often (in trade talks),” Brian Cashman said. “I’m not looking to move him. I’m only looking to move the bad stuff.”
I hope other GM’s didn’t read this.
On the other hand, huggers rejoice!
Chip March 21st, 2013 at 11:05 pm
Rich in NJ March 21st, 2013 at 10:56 pm
This team would have been in a pretty sweet place if no trades were made in recent years: AJack, Melky, Montero, IPK
——————–
I’m excited for the angst next year when the Mariners come to Yankee Stadium with Joba starting and Montero catching him.
—
That’s probably only if Zunino is getting a day off.
Yeah, Chip, some people are actually also baseball fans.
And some of us just can’t help but watch the player who we should have been penciling in at C, instead of Cervelli or Stewart.
Cervelli or Stewart!
Jack
But, but, Montero is going to the hall of fame…he is the best hitting catcher of all time…how could he ever be replaced?
As opposed to who?
–
Phil Hughes for the start of the season, then down into the AAA rotation, then back up to the majors if anyone gets hurt. They should be targeting 180 innings for him. Or 150 since he missed that mark last year.
Chip March 21st, 2013 at 10:42 pm
The whining that is going on about this Yankee team on this site is bordering on unbearable.
————————————–
It’s not just on this site. Francesa said it best today for the first time in a long time the fans are really down on the team. Every fan has their own reason but it’s on the FO and what they have or haven’t done.
“Bud has turned into Wile E Coyote.”
The strength of the strategy could be that MLB has practically limitless resources while the the targets of their lawsuits may not.
_________
“I’m excited for the angst next year when the Mariners come to Yankee Stadium with Joba starting and Montero catching him.”
I didn’t watch Seattle games last season and I won’t this season or next…
JAP –
I’m a baseball fan. What I’m not is obsessed.
Get over Montero. The Yankees wanted someone back there who can…you know…catch.
What a joke Brian Cashman continues to be:
“the bad stuff.”
No one wants your “bad stuff”, you idiot.
Catching without the ability to hit at all is no virtue.
One hit with what could very well be a lineup in the first two months of the season? Come on guys…
I’m so happy for you that you are content with Stewart and Cervelli.
Rich in NJ March 21st, 2013 at 11:12 pm
Catching without the ability to hit at all is no virtue.
—————-
It is to Girardi lol
Phelps is gonna be in the pen….Id be shocked if they sent him down…..they should if he doesn’t make the rotation ….but they likely won’t because he could help their pen. Actually IMO if they can get a quality and controlled position player prospect that plays 3B or SS for him then they should trade him IMO…..they see him as depth and his value may never be higher….sure it could increase if be was given a shot at starting…..but that’s probably at least another year away and even then he’d have innings limits
No one wants your “bad stuff”, you idiot.
————————-
http://www.reactionface.info/s.....594814.gif
If Cervelli continues throwing well again and hits like he can then he won’t be bad. Stewie can’t hit.
“It is to Girardi lol”
It’s almost as if the positional offensive advantage that Posada provided for so long as been expunged from certain peoples’ collective memories.
And I would be have ok if they traded for Montero, as long as it was for another young bat.
MLB is ton a waste a lot of time and money on this biogenesis thing……another goose chase in the name of PED control. It’s almost opening day guys….let it go so the media will actually you know talk about baseball
Odds,
Each and very “whine” has been earned.
AOA -
My guess is that the majority of the whining comes from fans who didn’t follow the team pre 1994.
Am I happy with the direction being laid out by the front office? Not really. Am I happy that the organization is raising ticket prices but cutting salaries? Nope. Do I think Hal is dead wrong about the payroll? Yes I do.
But Hal’s not George and there’s a reason why Hal and Hank weren’t the guys who George had looked at as his replacement. Hal’s never been really involved in the baseball aspect and is learning as he goes.
I wouldn’t mind the Yankees cutting some payroll; but to do it they have to do a better job developing prospects and then be willing to play those prospects.
End of the day, if the Yankees aren’t playing October baseball or selling tickets in August and September I think the Yankees will re-evaluate a lot of the things they’re doing right now.
I’m not looking to move him. I’m only looking to move the bad stuff.”
Cashman’s resignation letter?
And if one bad season is the price for Hal learning what it takes to be an owner…then that’s the price we pay.
“And I would be have ok if they traded for Montero, as long as it was for another young bat.”
Watching Justin Upton hit balls 450 feet for Atlanta makes me sad…..not saying they could have used Montero for him ….it just makes me sad in general. I like the Braves too though so I’ll enjoy watching their offense…..I know it’s just spring ball by the braves scored like 35 runs over 2 games this week…..have the Yanks scored 35 runs all spring?
They are seriously overlooking the benefits of having a catcher that can hit. I understand wanting defense but the team has two back up catchers this season c’mon now.
Rich in NJ March 21st, 2013 at 11:12 pm
Catching without the ability to hit at all is no virtue.
——————
Every manager is going to put his own values into the team. The Yankee manager is a guy who was all glove no hit. It’s not a shock that he would value similar traits in his players.
If Cervelli can catch then I think he will be ok at the catcher spot…..I wish we had more offense there but threats not their primary issue…. The biggest issue now is that they’ll be getting back up catcher offense from 1B against RHP….who knows what from one of the outfield spots and really who knows what from DH and 3B too…..
Against All Odds March 21st, 2013 at 11:21 pm
They are seriously overlooking the benefits of having a catcher that can hit. I understand wanting defense but the team has two back up catchers this season c’mon now.
———————-
I agree…there’s a middle ground between an all stick no glove catcher (montero) and guys who are barely ML backups (Cervelli and Stewart).
I am disgusted that Romine wasn’t given any shot to make the team just because Cervelli and Stewart are out of options. And I’m still disappointed that the Yankees didn’t make a move for a better catcher this winter. That said, I’m hoping that Romine goes to AAA and plays too well to be ignored.
You know what’s really sad?
Watching Montero dig the ball out of the dirt and throw a guy out, after having doubled the other way and then coming ’round to score.
Hitting about .370. OPS’ing over 1.
Chip
That reminds of the difference between Pat Riley and Mike D’Antoni. Riley changed his style of play to fit his personnel. In LA he had great, fast, athletic players so he ran the Showtime offense. In NY, he had plodders, so he played a variation of the Pistons bad boy defense and pounded the ball inside to Ewing.
D’Antoni insists on deploying the 7 seconds or less offense no matter who his players are.
IOW, great coaches/managers exploit the strengths of their players.
Mediocre ones are inflexible.
Blake -
The problem is that it’s not as easy as going out and making a deal tomorrow to replace Tex (who I think will miss the season). Mike Francesa’s pontificating aside, the Twins aren’t giving the Yankees Justin Morneau right now for a bag of baseballs and Pat Venditte. We’re going to have to be patient.
I don’t want Juan Rivera on the team any more than you do – but them’s the breaks.
Montero will probably have some more growing pains this year ….but Id be really surprised if he didnt improve significantly from a year ago….he’s just too talented offensively not to. Maybe the fences coming in will give their young hitters more confidence…..
My guess is that the majority of the whining comes from fans who didn’t follow the team pre 1994.
===============
A portion yes but there are a number of fans that followed the team through the bad yrs. I think their non activity has shocked a number of fans and with the injuries it has added to the frustration. Not every fan has been up on the 189 limit and have spent urs discussing it like we have have. I think that why some of them can’t comprehend the non moves that have been made.
Hopefully they do re-evaluate but with the injuries they have the safety net of saying hey we were hurt last yr and never got a chance to see the team at full strength lets see what they can do.
Chip March 21st, 2013 at 11:24 pm
Against All Odds March 21st, 2013 at 11:21 pm
They are seriously overlooking the benefits of having a catcher that can hit. I understand wanting defense but the team has two back up catchers this season c’mon now.
———————-
I agree…there’s a middle ground between an all stick no glove catcher (montero) and guys who are barely ML backups (Cervelli and Stewart).
I am disgusted that Romine wasn’t given any shot to make the team just because Cervelli and Stewart are out of options. And I’m still disappointed that the Yankees didn’t make a move for a better catcher this winter. That said, I’m hoping that Romine goes to AAA and plays too well to be ignored.
————————
Yea hopefully Romine can play well and make an impact mid season.
“The problem is that it’s not as easy as going out and making a deal tomorrow to replace Tex (who I think will miss the season”
Not easy at all….it’s reality though and they have a lot of injury risk on this team and not much depth…..could that design have been prevented better? Perhaps…..as I’ve said before I don’t really know without knowing how far Hals hand is reaching
Night all….I’ll be dreaming of too many home runs
Rich,
I don’t disagree with you. And what I find odd is that this is one of only two areas where Cashman seems to have actually let Girardi have significant input (the other place is Rivera at 1b where Cashman said he didn’t see a fit there).
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – it would thrill me to no end for Hal to give Girardi, Levine and Cashman their walking papers; name Stick the president of baseball operations and let him bring in new people with fresh eyes.
GN, blake.
My guess is that the majority of the whining comes from fans who didn’t follow the team pre 1994.
–
So people who have seen how bad it can get are complacent then? They don’t care? Think its futile? I don’t know why having faced ‘hardship’ (I put it in quotes because its just a sports team) means you should accept facing it again.
Odds –
I’m 35 so I go back to the mid-80s and I’ll admit, I was shocked that the Yankees didn’t make a play for Hunter or one of the catchers who could have been a better choice for a time share back there.
Other than that though – aside from bringing in some better bench options – the FA market didn’t have much to offer the team. I thought they would do something with the Nats for Morse and Kurt Suzuki – but such is life.
My hope now is that they don’t overreact to a bad first half by making short sighted in season trades like they did in 08.
Chip March 21st, 2013 at 11:24 pm
I am disgusted that Romine wasn’t given any shot to make the team just because Cervelli and Stewart are out of options. And I’m still disappointed that the Yankees didn’t make a move for a better catcher this winter. That said, I’m hoping that Romine goes to AAA and plays too well to be ignored.
—
Romine didn’t play much in the minors last year, hit .213 in AAA, then did not hit well in the AFL. He needs more time in the minors. If he performs well he could be called up mid season, presumably to replace Stewart.
night blake
Jerkface March 21st, 2013 at 11:35 pm
My guess is that the majority of the whining comes from fans who didn’t follow the team pre 1994.
–
So people who have seen how bad it can get are complacent then? They don’t care? Think its futile? I don’t know why having faced ‘hardship’ (I put it in quotes because its just a sports team) means you should accept facing it again.
—————-
No. But fans who have seen it really bad – have seen the games where Don Mattingly was hitting homeruns to empty seats understand that this team – flawed as it is – is still going to compete for the division whereas when it was actually bad, those teams didn’t have a chance.
I lived through the Horace Clarke years.
But that has nothing to do with understanding when a move is a miserable one.
Jack -
I don’t mind Romine being sent to the minors. I’m annoyed he never was given a chance to even prove he belonged in the majors. Bobby Wilson was given more of a look than Romine was.
How bad things were during certain down periods does not exonerate the General Manager for making awful moves in the present.
Furthermore, some of us who have lived through those times recognize the signs.
JAP –
Montero’s traded. He’s not coming back. If you’re that broken up about it that it is something that is going to gnaw at you for as long as he’s in the league then I don’t know what to tell you.
Romine isn’t ready to be a regular. He’s had a back problem that set him back, and his bat isn’t quite there. He needs AAA time. This pining for Romine seems random and disingenuous. It certainly doesn’t jive with where the player is.
Chip March 21st, 2013 at 11:37 pm
Odds –
I’m 35 so I go back to the mid-80s and I’ll admit, I was shocked that the Yankees didn’t make a play for Hunter or one of the catchers who could have been a better choice for a time share back there.
Other than that though – aside from bringing in some better bench options – the FA market didn’t have much to offer the team. I thought they would do something with the Nats for Morse and Kurt Suzuki – but such is life.
My hope now is that they don’t overreact to a bad first half by making short sighted in season trades like they did in 08.
——————-
I don’t think they will do something crazy like Tyler Austin and Slade for Sori but I can see the making a move due to fan and media pressure
Chip,
You not knowing what to tell me doesn’t come as a surprise.
And I’ll continue to call out management for this hideous lack of judgment – along with all the other bad moves that brought a robust, dangerous lineup to to the parched, feeble thing it is today – as long as the same guy who made these moves still wears the GM hat for my team.
Get over it? More like, get used to it.
Chip March 21st, 2013 at 11:44 pm
JAP –
Montero’s traded. He’s not coming back. If you’re that broken up about it that it is something that is going to gnaw at you for as long as he’s in the league then I don’t know what to tell you.
—————-
Some fans are still upset about Buhner being traded. Fans latch onto certain players
Chip,
I saw Montero for six years in MiL actually play baseball; that’s why I am so rived that he has been carelessly traded away.
Meanwhile, you’ve been trumpeting ideas like Corban Joseph to replace Robi Cano, with no idea how absurd that suggestion is.
You’re also all over Romine, whom you are convinced is ready to play – based on what, exactly??
I actually have a sound basis for my complaint.
Some fans are still upset about Buhner being traded. Fans latch onto certain players
//
Odds, with all due respect, I’m not latching onto Montero for any reason other than the obvious one: he’s going to hit for a high average and hit for power, and he’s going to do it as a catcher.
And although I’m genuinely fond of Chamberlain, the reason I’m so irked that he isn’t a starter is because he throws 97 miles per hour, has a killer slider, and two other serviceable pitches. And because we saw what he can do in the rotation, just as we got a preview of what Montero could have done in Yankee Stadium.
If montero tears it up this year,it’s going to hurt real bad,and cashman is going to take a beating.
I don’t think it’s certain players as it is historically stupid trades, especially ones that could have helped mitigate or reverse a decline by the franchise.
Buhner/Phelps was immortalized in a Seinfeld episode and was made as the Yankees started to decline.
If Pineda becomes a dominant ace for years, this trade will be re-evaluated.
It could be that the AJack/IPK is viewed as much worse in a few years.
“My guess is that the majority of the whining comes from fans who didn’t follow the team pre 1994.”
I’m on the wrong side of 50 and a fan my whole life. One of my earliest memories ever, is bat day at Yankee Stadium and getting a Clete Boyer bat. A real wooden bat!
And I’m not whining.
But I am pissed. I’m pissed off that we have an arrogant, classless, SOB going through a mid-life crisis as our GM. And an owner who changed the mission statement from “whatever it takes to win”, to whatever it takes to make more money.
But I guess “thats how they roll now”
Good night all.
It was sickening watching AJax go the other way and run the ball down in the gap and over his head.
He did it in 2011, especially. I remember a laser Alex hit (which people forget, because it didn’t fall in) to deep center that AJax ran down, and another where he robbed Jeter in right-center.
Objectively, Montero and Pineda were pretty even value (and we got + on the Campos/Noesi part) at the time of the trade. People were just upset because they were in love with Montero and/or felt that the team needed offense more than Pineda. Pineda got hurt, it happens. I believe trades should be evaluated at the time of the trade with what you know and can reasonably predict at the time. I don’t think the trade was bad on a value basis.
But I am pissed. I’m pissed off that we have an arrogant, classless, SOB going through a mid-life crisis as our GM.
////
Crap! Exactly.
I just don’t see pineda as a dominating ace.
He had a torn labrum.The kiss of death injury for a pitcher,and he still has a lot of developing to do,in addition to a serious pitch count this year.
Trading montero,ajax is going to sting.
Granderson will be gone,montero tearing it up.
The opposite needed to be done.
Keep our prospects,trade our players that will be expensive,like cano,hughes,granderson,and bring back nice prospects,wich will allow us to get around the fact that we don’t get high draft picks,then sign a few free agents.
They were going to trade Cano, Hughes, and others. Ppl disliked non moves but those moves would have sent others of the deep end.
were not****
off*
SMH I think it’s time to say GN.
“Objectively, Montero and Pineda were pretty even value (and we got + on the Campos/Noesi part) at the time of the trade. People were just upset because they were in love with Montero and/or felt that the team needed offense more than Pineda. Pineda got hurt, it happens.”
This omits the increased risk of an injury to a pitcher under 26. That’s why equal value was not exchanged.
It wasn’t about Montero. It was about an aging offensive core, other parts of the offense likely leaving as FA, and no other near ML ready offense piece to offset the loss of Montero.
So your view is actually quite subjective.
“I just don’t see pineda as a dominating ace.”
I’m not saying that it’s likely, only that it has to happen in order to view the trade as at least decent one, unless Montero sucks, which is unlikely.
Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 12:46 am
“Objectively, Montero and Pineda were pretty even value (and we got + on the Campos/Noesi part) at the time of the trade. People were just upset because they were in love with Montero and/or felt that the team needed offense more than Pineda. Pineda got hurt, it happens.”
This omits the increased risk of an injury to a pitcher under 26. That’s why equal value was not exchanged.
It wasn’t about Montero. It was about an aging offensive core, other parts of the offense likely leaving as FA, and no other near ML ready offense piece to offset the loss of Montero.
So your view is actually quite subjective.
—
Maybe it’s subjective, but I don’t believe it’s inaccurate. Even some of the people that hated the trade agreed that it was fairly equal on a value basis (Luis, for one).
Risk of injury was not omitted, it’s a risk with any pitcher, especially a younger one.
As for needs, we now have CC – Nova – Phelps as our rotation for 2014. Don’t tell me we won’t need pitching.
So instead we keep cano,lose hughes,and granderson,and burn service time on phelps being in the pen.
We can’t keep giving 8 year contracts out,and only getting a few good years out of it.
Now players like hughes,and granderson that in the past we would never let go,are going to be gone because we can’t afford them,so these bad longterm contracts are catching up with us.
Not a winning formula,and we are about to crash,and burn.
We will soon need every single position on the diamond filled.
lf,cf,rf,3b,ss,4 sp,and tex,cc aging,so in a few years add pitcher number 5,and 1b,and a catcher.
Maybe nova,and,or phelps make it,but we don’t know for sure,same with sanchez,romine,cervelli at the catcher position.
Maybe it’s subjective, but I don’t believe it’s inaccurate. Even some of the people that hated the trade agreed that it was fairly equal on a value basis (Luis, for one).
–
I think in a vacuum its equal value, think I said so at the time of the trade, but the trade didn’t happen in a vacuum. It happened in a world where the Yankees could really use a young bat, and the guy they got for said young bat had an injury history and his main asset (huge FB and slider) both came out of no where a season prior to the trade.
I would have liked Montero getting traded for a bat that could be an everyday guy for the Yankees.
“Maybe it’s subjective, but I don’t believe it’s inaccurate. Even some of the people that hated the trade agreed that it was fairly equal on a value basis (Luis, for one).
Risk of injury was not omitted, it’s a risk with any pitcher, especially a younger one.
As for needs, we now have CC – Nova – Phelps as our rotation for 2014. Don’t tell me we won’t need pitching.”
Exactly, so the risk of injury to a young pitcher has to be accounted for in assessing value, and as a result, exchanging a hitter with Montero’s potential was too much value given up for the risk assumed. They didn’t get a hitter back as an offset, they got Campos, another young pitcher, further away from the ML, and who is now injured (or at least recovering from an injury).
It’s not about not needing pitchers at some point. But they were able to get Kuroda, a #2, for just money. There is no reason to expect that they couldn’t have done something similar again..
Young pitchers are just too risky to overpay for. So teams should develop, sign, and/or trade for whatever they can at prices that don’t impose high costs other than short-term financial outlays. That is, and should remain, the Yankees’ strength.
Actually, Kuroda’s don’t come around all that often. A pitcher of his caliber signing one year deals for moderate money, probably won’t be able to do that next year. Next year the Yankees will have to pay bigger money for a #2 if Pineda can’t be that, or go without because of the budget (unless Nova can become that).
J. Alfred Prufrock March 21st, 2013 at 11:24 pm
“You know what’s really sad?
Watching Montero dig the ball out of the dirt and throw a guy out, after having doubled the other way and then coming ’round to score.
Hitting about .370. OPS’ing over 1.”
~ ~ ~
Not sad to me in the least
And, the fact that Montero’s fellow “M’s” (in more ways than one!) Morales and Morse are also hitting WELL over .300 and ops’ing WELL over 1 is making me down right giddy.
)
(actually, so are Smoak and Ibanez and Guti and even Bay … but they didn’t fit with the “M” theme
True, it’s only ST – but it’s better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick…
)
( as my dad use to say
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blake March 21st, 2013 at 11:26 pm
“Montero will probably have some more growing pains this year ….but Id be really surprised if he didnt improve significantly from a year ago….he’s just too talented offensively not to. Maybe the fences coming in will give their young hitters more confidence…..”
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Hope so.
And, even though it’s only ST, I have to think that the 3rd best record of all the grapefruits and cacti as well as the most homers and the highest slugging and being in the top ten in many other offensive categories is helping with that confidence boost as well.
Somehow they got Pettitte and Kuroda to sign one year deals.
In recent seasons, Garcia was decent for a while. Colon made a contribution.
There’s often an aging pitcher looking for a chance to win while being well-paid.
Anything makes more sense than trading your only offensive ML ready young bat on a team with many aging/declining bats for a young pitcher with the issues Pineda had.
Of course, if they stuck with their homegrown pitchers in the rotation, rather than giving them very short chances to succeed, and then either putting them in the pen or trading them, the rotation might be well-covered.
The Mariners love hitting in arizona, then they get back to the wet muck of safeco…
JF ~
That may prove true. As I said, it IS only ST, still….
nice to see 46 homers so far this spring (in 25 games) compared to usual mid-high 20′s of recent entire springs (save for 2009 when they hit 47 – coincidentally, their last winning season)
Again, might not carry over into the regular season but, then again, it may just be the confidence boost they need to get off to a good start…
~ever Rosy
The mariners crushed last spring too, but Morales and Morse are real hitters, so some of it isn’t going to be a fluke. Safeco is a tough place to hit though.
OT, came across this on a youtube channel, quality show.
http://www.youtube.com/user/gametheoryseries
this team has a good shot at a 4th place finish in the AL east…nothing at all to get excited about with this team & the gate will show
There is good news for those who lament the Montero trade with Seattle. In an alternate dimension he was not traded and catches for the Yankees in 2013.
No, Martin would be back through 2014 making a measly mil more than he did last season in 2013 and Montero would be the DH/third string catcher (Stewart still the backup C, Cervelli still the AAA starting catcher. Good job Steinbrenner Bros. Shallow Hal and Hankenstein. Please sell the team to people who actually care about baseball like your father who had more heart, fire, and brains in his pinky than you two have in your entire bodies.
The Yankees have hit less than one-third the homers of the Mariners. Folks, the Yankee offense is going to be abysmal. They are hitting under .240 this spring. Yes, it is spring, but it is a clear precursor of things to come. Look at the expected lineup.
I have been following the team since 1960. This is the worst offense since perhaps the late 1960s.
We have Cashman’s pithy comments to look forward to telling us how it is our fault we have unreasonable expectations.
Duh Innings !!
—–
I disagree respectfully
Don’t understand your facination with Martin ? do you miss his .205 batting average … or the fact that he threw out 20 percent of base runners , Martin didn’t even catch our Ace (CC) .
Also . .im not grading the Montero Pineda trade … way too early
Joeman,
I do believe attendance is going to take a hit beginning in April. The fan base is realistically seeing a dramatically weakened team. It is the mid-60s returning. I have said it for many months.
Younger fans seem to believe winning and big crowds are a given. I remember how wrong that can be as the Yankees were a complete non-factor for many years. It took the enthusiasm and spending of George to win again. CBS’ financial statement operation of the team led to the disaster. It seems a bit too parallel for me.
Shame
You are going to LOVE Calcatera today. He was in full snark mode before the sun came up.
so did montero show up fat and out of shape in this alternate dimension like he did in actual mariner’s camp this year?
ST performance is not a reliable indication of anything. Except in our case of the mounting injury totals.
We lost Grandy, A-Rod, and Texeira. And we may not have Jeter for a while.
Of course our production is going to suffer and decline. With losses like that any Team’s would.
I was watching Baseball Tonight on ESPN last evening.
They did a prognostication and review show for this coming season.
The Yankees were picked for either 4th or dead last.
I hope that doesn’t turn out to be true.
MTU,
The spring training stats clearly reflect the inability of the subs on the team. Take a team who fills holes with released players, remove good bench options, suffer injuries and you have the Yankees.
I do not believe I am unnecessarily pessimistic. Look at the roster, see the players’ stats for the last couple of years, project whether the old players will improve or decline and tell me how they will score.
Injuries? Granderson will come back healthy. The others are certainly unknown.
This year was their last chance to win with half the team departing afterwards.
Every prognosticator sees the Yankees problems. They are very evident.
It didn’t work when CBS was more interested in the budget than in winning. It won’t work now either.
Now, the question bandied about New York is whether the Yankees or Mets will be better over the next five years.
Mac-
It is not my place to tell you how to view things. I like and respect you way too much for that.
Besides, each of us is entitled to our own analysis.
I understand your concerns. I share many of them.
I’ve said all along that the Yankees were carrying too much injury risk due to the overall age of the Team.
Some of what happened so far is just plain bad luck though.
One wishes they were as deep in position players as they are in the Pitching dep’t. but they simply are not.
I, for one, will be glad when the 189 thing is over and done with.
And I’m certainly all for some new blood in the mangement ranks.
If Hal truly wants to sell I hope he gets it done soon.
And I wish like heck that his Mo-Ness could exit the stage w another championship ring.
It seems fitting.
austinmac -
George had enthusiasm and an open pocketbook, and he was a good judge of what would be attention getting. And he was able to excite the fanbase with his free spending and outspokenness. But he was a joke a lot of the time in his early days. He was also not necessarily a good judge of talent. His teams were not consistent winners. He ignored the farm system.
Those empty stadium days? Many happened with George at the helm.
It wasn’t until the Yankees started winning consistently that the stands started to be packed to capacity. In the mid-90′s we were able to get 12 tickets together in one section for a Saturday afternoon game!
The run of the last 18 years has been nothing short of incredible for a baseball team.
The rules of the game, with respect to money, have changed and have started to handcuff the Yankees at exactly the wrong time. The ARod contract has proven to be a millstone around their neck. I believe they understood and still understand that when you give long term contracts you are going to get diminished returns at some point. With ARod that point came long before anyone could have foreseen; and at the time, recall that ARod was healthy, a powerhouse, and had not yet been “outed” for using PEDs.
As for Montero, Jackson, Kennedy. So many people here wanted Kennedy gone it is not funny. Within the first month of his having being an ML starter he had the nerve to be politically incorrect, and turned off quite a few people. He had one stupendous year in Arizona, and one so-so year in Arizona, and now, everyone says trading him was a mistake. I am truly on the fence about the Jackson trade. I was and am a big Granderson fan, so I was happy that he became a Yankee, but at the same time, I had been looking forward to seeing the day when Jackson would be in their outfield. Again, I do want to see how he follows up last year’s performance. Was it truly a break-out year, or just a good year? We’ll see. Montero – well, that’s tricky, because again, a player I looked forward to seeing at the ML level for the Yankees. But understood that if they weren’t going to use him as a catcher, and they were stuck with aging ARod and Derek Jeter for whom they wanted to reserve the DH spot, and Montero plays no other position, and is not athletic enough to do so, I could understand the trade on one level. But knowing at the time of the trade that ARod was aging faster than anticipated, thinking the Yankees would flnd a way to keep Montero’s bat.
For me, there’s a lot of gray area in all these moves. And I am troubled that so many people only see black and white and are intent on vilifying the Yankees for all of it.
I do not like many things, but I also know that it’s not fair to judge 100% how this team is going to do during the season when they have not even settled on a lineup yet. There has not been a chance for the team to play as a team. I’ll wait to see how it goes. Also, it’s pretty hard for any team to stand losing their two biggest power hitters and we may just have to suck up to a bad year.
Ask the Twins.
Please excuse me for a little while so I can rustle up some breakfast.
After all, it is the most important meal of the Day.
The AROD and Jeter injuries were well known to the Yankees this winter. Potentially losing their offense along with the loss of Swisher and Martin were attempted to be replaced by two players who have fallen off the production cliff, Hafner and Youkilis.
Other injuries happen. They happen to every team. The reason the Yankee teams of the late 1990s were so good is they had a 25 player roster.
To go into a year knowing the team would decline and not making efforts to replace key losses leads to the inevitable situation they are in today. They do this despite having far more income than any other team. They do it simply to increase their profits.
Guess what? This will be the worst economic year for the Yankees for a long time. Bad decisions lead to bd consequences.
“The Yankees were picked for either 4th or dead last.”
as I said yesterday…..Espn is loving this “yankees are doomed” storyline almost as much as they loved the “Red Sox are the best team ever” one from a couple of years ago……we saw how that turned out.
The Yanks have issues…..but if they can get healthy I think they could be good enough to make the playoffs with the pitching they have.
The big issue is going to be surviving the first couple of months…..because I have a hard time seeing how they are going to score much unless Cano just destroys the ball and guys like Youk find new life.
The media is greatly underestimating the core heart of this club though and the culture that guys like Jeter, Rivera, Pettite, and probably Cano now have cultivated. They won’t lay down…..flaws and all don’t be shocked if this team is right there at the end.
Doreen,
When George took over, he brought hope. Previously, there was none. I see hope being eliminated and enthusiasm drained. He understood winning the back pages of the newspapers. When was the last time they have had positive news?
A winter of the owner and GM dampening expectations is no way to make money. An April and May with this lineup may very well see the Yankees buried very early. They would lose, under those circumstances, tens of millions of dollars, I expect.
Penny wise, pound foolish.
Blake,
I agree the Yankee core are a tough a group mentally as exists. That doesn’t hit the ball or score runs. No one will throw strikes to Cano. Wouldn’t you rather pitch to Hafner? They have the shortest lineup around.
Incidentally, people here make fun of the enthusiasm for Bradley, Jr. Wouldn’t we be excited if we had a young guy hitting .450 and playing center field?
“…flaws and all don’t be shocked if this team is right there at the end.”
This.
Every team has question marks and will continue to have more as muscles get pulled and hamstrings strained over the course of 162 games.
Focusing on the Yankees flaws make the fans of 29 other teams happy.
It is not merely getting more profit.
There is a point of view on payroll and luxury tax that I can totally understand.
Which is this. Every time the Yankees signed a free agent, outbidding everyone else, you had to add another chunk of change to that salary to cover the luxury tax. No players EVER gave the Yankees a “hometown discount” If you played in NY, you got top dollar, and the Yankees paid extra for that.
And they did it willingly. If there’s no alternative, and no way to fight it or get around it, you just suck it up and pay the money.
But the new CBA gave the Yankees a carrot. Gave them an opportunity to get on equal footing or close to it, if they basically promise to behave for a year or two and not spend as much money.
I hate it. I hate that baseball wants a bunch of teams all the same. I hate that baseball punishes a team for being business smart. For making money. For spending the money that they make. I hate it.
But I can’t fault the Yankees for taking an opportunity to not have to pay that money.
I am still hopeful it’s a short-term thing. And I realize it may mean a year or two that the Yankees are not the powerhouse they have been for a long time. But frankly, you’ve got to shut out the pundits who are going to be salivating over this. It is a story. And it is a story that they’ve long wanted to tell. And they are going to get every last morsel out of it.
Blake-
I didn’t say I agreed w those predicitions. I merely cited them for the purpose of conversation.
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