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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Notes from Cashman: Jeter, Boesch, Hughes, Rapada, Nuno

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 22, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Brian Cashman just met with writers in the back of the press box here in Tampa. Here’s a player-by-player breakdown.

DEREK JETER
Basically, the Jeter situation is something beyond day-by-day. It’s kind of hour-by-hour. Jeter could play in a minor league game tomorrow afternoon, but that depends entirely on how he feels when he gets to the park morning.

“There is no plan right now other than, he’ll show up tomorrow (and) get stretched out by Stevie Donohue,” Cashman said. “We’ll have a conversation about how he’s feeling, and then we’ll come up with tomorrow’s program after that. It could be just another workout on the field. If he’s sore you back off. If he feels great, maybe you put him in some game activity. I don’t know.”

BRENNAN BOESCH
When the Yankees team bus got to Fort Myers, Boesch asked trainer Donohue for a heat pack, then revealed that he felt some stiffness around his left rib cage. Boesch had an oblique issue in Tigers camp earlier this spring, but Cashman said today’s stiffness is in a different spot. Cashman said that, for now, there are no tests planned but that could change tomorrow.

“He felt some soreness there,” Cashman said. “I don’t think he described it as significant, but we banged him just as a precaution. So he won’t play today or tomorrow regardless of how he may feel he can. We’ll see more, a little bit more tomorrow.”

PHIL HUGHES
Hughes reached nearly 60 pitches today, which would seem to put him in line for 75 hit next time out and 90 the time after that. In theory, that leaves him stretched out enough to start a major league game on April 6 in Detroit. Cashman said that’s possible, but it’s also possible Hughes will wait another turn before making his season debut.

“He’ll be a close call in the end,” Cashman said. “I think he’s certainly going in the right direction, but I think it’s just a time issue for him. If it’s better to backdate him on the DL and have him ready for the next turn in the rotation, we could do that.”

CLAY RAPADA
There is no question that Rapada is opening the season on the disabled list.

“He’s on the DL. He’ll start the season on the DL. He’s not on the DL officially yet. He did the bullpen today, what, 15 fastballs? So it wasn’t a full bullpen, but 15 fastballs, and he feels good. But in terms of a time frame, he’s going to need a little bit of April. So, he won’t be ready, but he’ll be ready pretty quickly.”

VIDAL NUNO
Cashman was asked whether the Yankees would simply open the season with one left-hander in the bullpen. He brought up Nuno’s name, unprompted.

“Still talking about it,” Cashman said. “Obviously Nuno has opened everybody’s eyes and taken a run at it, still trying to force his way on. We’ll go with one lefty, or we’ll go with two.”

Associated Press photo

 
 

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132 Responses to “Notes from Cashman: Jeter, Boesch, Hughes, Rapada, Nuno”

  1. Carly March 22nd, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    MG March 22nd, 2013 at 3:20 pm
    tomingeorgia March 22nd, 2013 at 3:19 pm
    Musty just doubled in two.
    =======================
    tom, from now on it’s Generational Bat Musty, the greatest Cuban ex-pat 3rd baseman of all time and a sure fire HOFamer…

    LOL, yes, there does appear to be a good bunch of hype here.

  2. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    I’m not particularly enamored with this habitual willingness to convert developing starters into relievers. The costs it has already imposed on this organization have been unacceptably high.

  3. MG March 22nd, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    tomingeorgia March 22nd, 2013 at 3:25 pm
    MG,
    That was probably Minnie Minoso, but hagiography aside, he can be a very good ball player.
    ————————–
    tom, Minnie was more of an outfielder but good reference-true story, my dad took me to a Yankees-White Sox doubleheader and we snuck down to the lower deck, it must have been just off home plate but not behind the screen. As we were walking down the aisle Minnie hit a foul ball straight back that hit my father (who had played baseball at CCNY, at least that’s what he told me) right in his hands and bounced off them, I never forgave him for missing the only foul ball opportunity of my life (until I caught one hit by Bobby Bonds many years later).

  4. jacksquat March 22nd, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    “If he’s sore you back off. If he feels great, maybe you put him in some game activity. I don’t know.”

    It might be easier to know if Jeter would just be honest about how he feels instead of always saying “I’m fine.”

  5. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    I’m not particularly enamored with this habitual willingness to convert developing starters into relievers. The costs it has already imposed on this organization have been unacceptably high.

    —————–

    I don’t love it either.. if they take him to the pen they need to find a way to still get him at minimum 100-120 innings this year. It might not be entirely impossible.. he’d have to pitch winter ball.

  6. Carly March 22nd, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    I’m not particularly enamored with this habitual willingness to convert developing starters into relievers. The costs it has already imposed on this organization have been unacceptably high.

    I guess other than Joba, I am not sure who else the cost was high.

  7. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    If I had to pick a new handle it might be… Shame Victorino.

  8. MG March 22nd, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    Putting Nuno in the ‘pen makes absolutely no sense-if they aren’t going to start him, let him pitch at Scranton in rotation so he can be ready to fill in if any of the starters have to miss a turn (a pretty good probability) and it makes sense to throw a lefty…

  9. MG March 22nd, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    do those of you still bemoaning Chamberlain not being a starter really think he would have avoided the TJ surgery had the switch not been made?

    I always wanted him as a starter but he was likely to need the surgery no matter where he pitched and he would have been starting over last year anyway.

  10. astrocityfan March 22nd, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Rich,
    I agree completely. Nuno should be logging innings in the minors so he can push for a starting job next year. The only reason to allow him to relieve is if he fails as a starter.

  11. jacksquat March 22nd, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    Maybe they don’t think Nuno will make it as a starter. I don’t know what to say as I haven’t really watched him pitch.

  12. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    I guess other than Joba, I am not sure who else the cost was high.

    —————–

    The back and forth arguably resulted in setbacks for Hughes. We’re hoping it doesn’t do the same to Phelps. It may have effected Noesi but he’s someone else’s problem now.

  13. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    “do those of you still bemoaning Chamberlain not being a starter really think he would have avoided the TJ surgery had the switch not been made?”

    Who knows? But it was the shoulder injury that was cited as the reason for putting him the pen, yet it didn’t require surgery, so it’s reasonable to think that Pineda’s shoulder injury is/was more serious, bu there is no talk of putting him in the pen. And unlike Joba (or Hughes) he doesn’t have four pitches.

    But it’s not just Joba.

    It’s Hughes being put in the pen at one time as well, which likely affected his ability to build arm strength, and perhaps work on his repertoire of pitches.

    We have seen it with Phelps. We may also now see it with Nuno.

  14. J. Alfred Prufrock March 22nd, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Definitely hurt Hughes’ change. He wasn’t able to use it in games.

  15. tomingeorgia March 22nd, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Today’s box score:
    Nunez, 2-4, 2 runs
    Joseph, 2-5, 2 RBI
    Neal, 2-4, 2 runs
    Mustelier, 3-4, 2 RBI

  16. blake March 22nd, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    I still think all these injuries could be caused by those terrible while billed hats

  17. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    do those of you still bemoaning Chamberlain not being a starter really think he would have avoided the TJ surgery had the switch not been made?

    I think its ironic that the move they made to avoid injury or whatever their excuse was ended up with him being injured, but no I don’t think he would have avoided much really. Though its interesting that non-Yankees teams look to the starting rotation as being healthier than relieving.

    And of course the injury argument is just a small footnote in the brief against turning Joba into a reliever, the main point of which is that starters rule, relievers drool.

  18. blake March 22nd, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Jon Heyman ?@JonHeymanCBS 1m
    Girardi suggests nova didn’t have a great curveball or well-placed fastball today. Thatll make for a rough day.

  19. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    “Cash gets his fair share of credit”
    ————————————————

    he does?

    ….where?

  20. MG March 22nd, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    if I was mick-

    Nova to Scranton, work on new arm motion
    Phelps one start for Hughes
    Nuno rotation

  21. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    On Yesterday’s telecast, Lou and Ken were talking about how the Orioles “back in the day” (Earl Weaver’s time, I’m a-guessin’) they started their starters in the bullpen. (Kenny then joked that Earl didn’t trust them in the rotation right off the bat.)

    And David Cone talks about it in a positive light often, as well.

    I think it’s like anything else; for some guys it’s a stepping stone the the major league rotation, and has no ill effect; for others it might slow them down, I suppose.

    The one thing I do know is that in every single instance I’ve heard the question posed to the pitcher in question, which would you rather do, start in AAA or be in the bullpen in the major leagues, there has never been a hesitant answer that without a doubt they’d prefer to be in the ML bullpen. It is a big deal to make the ML team. However you do so.

    Anyway, sounds like Mustelier is doing what we all wanted him to do – make it really hard for the Yankees to have rational reason for not taking him up north with the team. He has hit and he has fielded well enough for sure. I know there’s the problem of the 40-man and all, but I think he’s made it clear he’s worth the making the spot for him. I will be extremely disappointed if he doesn’t make it.

    And I know he is not an elite prospect or anything like that. But he is one of their own who has done better than anyone else (maybe Rivera has hit as well) to try and get a job this spring, any of the veterans that were brought in, and any of the other prospects. This man deserves a shot. They extended the challenge and he has not crumbled under the scrutiny.

  22. tbone1570 March 22nd, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    jacksquat March 22nd, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    “If he’s sore you back off. If he feels great, maybe you put him in some game activity. I don’t know.”

    It might be easier to know if Jeter would just be honest about how he feels instead of always saying “I’m fine.”

    —————————————————————————

    He says “I’m fine” to the media. Obviously he didn’t say “I’m fine” to the trainers the other day.

  23. yankeefeminista March 22nd, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    Josh Norris@jnorris427
    Some hotness going on in the CSC game tomorrow. Campos followed by Severino. I’ll probably go, especially if Jeter is at Himes.
    ___
    I wouldn’t mind getting to see those two pitch. If Norris attends, at least we’ll have some vids.

  24. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    And I don’t think they’re necessarily converting starters into relievers; they’re taking the best pitcher(s) they have and using them to fill a need on the ML club. Unfortunately, that’s ML baseball; club first, individual second.

    There are so many variables with Joba, that the entire argument on either side of the coin is clouded at this point, in my opinion. It’s also an emotionally charged issue. And unless anyone has that magical crystal ball that looks into the future, or rather, into the alternate reality, we don’t know what would have could have might have should have been.

  25. tomingeorgia March 22nd, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Watch out. Angels release Bill Hall
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

  26. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    On Yesterday’s telecast, Lou and Ken were talking about how the Orioles “back in the day” (Earl Weaver’s time, I’m a-guessin’) they started their starters in the bullpen. (Kenny then joked that Earl didn’t trust them in the rotation right off the bat.)

    And David Cone talks about it in a positive light often, as well.

    I think it’s like anything else; for some guys it’s a stepping stone the the major league rotation, and has no ill effect; for others it might slow them down, I suppose.

    The one thing I do know is that in every single instance I’ve heard the question posed to the pitcher in question, which would you rather do, start in AAA or be in the bullpen in the major leagues, there has never been a hesitant answer that without a doubt they’d prefer to be in the ML bullpen. It is a big deal to make the ML team. However you do so.

    Anyone would want to be in the majors over the minors, but I’m sure 90% of those guys would want to be career starters as well. Both = more money.

    The thing with ‘old school’ bullpen conversions is that guys tended to have lots of innings. In the minors. In the majors. In the pen. In the offseason. The Yankees have not found a way to get their pitchers innings, and the guys they are shifting to the pen are invariably guys that have yet to really bulk up their innings workload.

    I’ve said it many times that I don’t think there is 1 solution for pitching development, but the Yankees method has not worked very well so please try something different.

  27. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    joba was overhyped from the beginning. this thing that people can’t let go of him as a starter is based on the same assumption that you can’t trade a future hall of famer like montero. he was never what he was built up to be so it’s easy to blame that on the organization instead of the player or the people who were hyping him beyond his ability.

    he’s ok, but nothing better and they should always use him wherever it helps the current team out most.

  28. David in Cal March 22nd, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    What are the odds that Joba signs with another team in 2014 and they give him a shot at starting?

    And, if he does get a shot at starting, will he succeed?

  29. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    “And I don’t think they’re necessarily converting starters into relievers; they’re taking the best pitcher(s) they have and using them to fill a need on the ML club. Unfortunately, that’s ML baseball; club first, individual second.”

    It really doesn’t matter what you call it, the cost is the same. The pitcher doesn’t get the necessary innings as a starter to develop, both is pitches and arm strength, and when they almost inevitably need another starter, the option is less good than the one they put in the pen.

    That is no way to develop starters.

    If you always worry about the now, the future is not often kind.

  30. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    And I don’t think they’re necessarily converting starters into relievers; they’re taking the best pitcher(s) they have and using them to fill a need on the ML club. Unfortunately, that’s ML baseball; club first, individual second.

    Why don’t we fill our bench with top prospects? Why isn’t the entire bullpen our best starters in the minors? The fact is that pitching is something that is inherently dangerous for arms and shoulders, and guys need a lot of work to stay healthy at it. I don’t think its in the clubs best interest to fill a position which can be filled in other ways with the best prospects.

    Or rather, the way the Yankees do it (few innings, not enough appearances, no spot starts)

  31. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    aroldis chapman wants to relieve.

  32. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    joba was overhyped from the beginning. this thing that people can’t let go of him as a starter is based on the same assumption that you can’t trade a future hall of famer like montero. he was never what he was built up to be so it’s easy to blame that on the organization instead of the player or the people who were hyping him beyond his ability.

    He was overhyped as a reliever, but he had legit starting stuff which he showed in winterball in hawaii and then in his glorious ascent up the major league ranks. He also proved it in 08. Why don’t you go look at the scouting reports and his milb numbers?

  33. Chad Jennings March 22nd, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    MG March 22nd, 2013 at 3:42 pm e
    Putting Nuno in the ‘pen makes absolutely no sense-if they aren’t going to start him, let him pitch at Scranton in rotation so he can be ready to fill in if any of the starters have to miss a turn (a pretty good probability) and it makes sense to throw a lefty…

    In this case, I think Nuno might make some sense on the Opening Day roster. Hughes and Rapada are likely to be on the DL, which mean Phelps in the rotation. Nuno would give the Yankees a long man and a second lefty for the first week or so, and he could go down to Triple-A once Hughes is healthy or once Rapada comes back (he’ll be back in the minor league rotation pretty quickly in either situation).

    For the immediate future, Nuno isn’t the top spot starter anyway — that’s obviously Phelps — and if the Yankees do need another starter while Phelps is in the rotation, Nuno being on the big league roster shouldn’t knock him out of the running. Even after two weeks or so in the bullpen, he should still be good to go five innings. He can fill this role while it’s available, and when guys get healthy, then he can go back to Triple-A to stay stretched out.

    Frankly, even if Nuno does settle in as nothing more than a quality left-handed reliever, I’d say that’s a significant win for the Yankees.

  34. Mordot11 March 22nd, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    This not knowing anything with Jeter scares me. These are the kinds of injuries that end up being 3 month long DL stints.

  35. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    he was just overhyped period. and you are still overhyping him as a starter.

  36. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    he was just overhyped period. and you are still overhyping him as a starter.

    How is it overhyping him when there is evidence of his badassness as a starter? There was no reason to take a guy with 4 pitches and put him in the pen.

  37. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    “He can fill this role while it’s available, and when guys get healthy, then he can go back to Triple-A to stay stretched out.”

    But if he is successful as a LOOGY, their history has been to leave him there.

    “Frankly, even if Nuno does settle in as nothing more than a quality left-handed reliever, I’d say that’s a significant win for the Yankees.”

    How it a win if they never find out if he could be a quality back of the rotation starter, which is worth more than any reliever who isn’t a top closer?

  38. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    we dont’ have to talk about ‘evidence’ or look at his hawaii #’s. joba actually started 45+ mlb games and posted something like a 4.5 era (which was getting worse) and a 1.5 whip.

    like i said he was ok as a starter just like he’s been ok as a reliever.

  39. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    Joba was the #1 pitching prospect in baseball pre08. Baseball america had Joba with the best fb, slider, and curve in the minor league system.

  40. MG March 22nd, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Chad, thanks for taking the time to talk about Nuno, all good points-that’s why you are a pro and we are amateurs :)

  41. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Joba as a starter 4.18 ERA
    Hughes as a starter LOL ERA
    Nova as a starter LOLer ERA

    No one is ‘hyping’ Joba after 09, but he should have still been given a chance. He never got to pitch a full season without any rules or innings free.

  42. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    I think people forget how good Joba was in 2008 as a starter. He was elite.

  43. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    if I was mick-

    Nova to Scranton, work on new arm motion
    Phelps one start for Hughes
    Nuno rotation
    =================
    MG

    mick sez:
    no to nuno
    nova and phelps 4 & 5
    hughes miss a start or 2

  44. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    joba was a 5 inning pitcher

  45. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    ” Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    Joba was the #1 pitching prospect in baseball pre08. Baseball america had Joba with the best fb, slider, and curve in the minor league system.”
    —————————————————–
    thats what we call hype.

    then he pitched in the majors and has not lived up to that hype.

    im not saying he stinks, just that he has never justified the hype, nor all the wailing about being moved to the BP.

    i dont care if he starts or relieves, the evidence shows that while he’s ok at either he’s not great at either. and that he was overhyped.

  46. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    We sure have suffered through a lot of worse than joba mediocrity from Nova and Hughes. Which is fine, starters are important pieces of any team, but the Yankees self-sabotage themselves in that department.

  47. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    then he pitched in the majors and has not lived up to that hype.

    Were you not paying attention in 08?

  48. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    joba was a 5 inning pitcher

    So was hughes for 3 years.

  49. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    “joba was a 5 inning pitcher”

    It’s kind of silly to make that statement about a young pitcher who was brought to the ML early and shifted back and forth between the pen and the rotation once he got there.

  50. Against All Odds March 22nd, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    Ys Guy March 22nd, 2013 at 3:58 pm
    “Cash gets his fair share of credit”
    ————————————————

    he does?

    ….where?

    ——————

    Fans, media, blogs, radio hosts, etc

  51. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    Yea and he was never given a chance to build on it. They never gave Joba a fullseason, a year removed from shoulder injury, with no innings restriction or inane pitch counts.

  52. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    Frankly, even if Nuno does settle in as nothing more than a quality left-handed reliever, I’d say that’s a significant win for the Yankees.
    ========================
    But if he is sensational they might convert him to a reliever like Joba.

  53. Against All Odds March 22nd, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:27 pm
    then he pitched in the majors and has not lived up to that hype.

    Were you not paying attention in 08

    —————-

    obviously not

  54. austinmac March 22nd, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    I have supported keeping Musty, but his good day made me think of MTU who has been unrelenting in his support. He is now hitting better than Rivera. He might contribute. We know Rivera will do well to hit like he did last year, and that isn’t helpful. Musty has fast hands. He has survived a lot to be here. He will be no starry eyed kid.

  55. Ys Guy March 22nd, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    you can’t just go by where he was ranked 5 years ago or pick out certain parts of his career. look at the whole of it.

    joba’s 26 now and has pitched over 400 major league innings.

    joba’s a serviceable pitcher. he was ok as a back end starter and he’s ok as a middle reliver/sometimes set up guy.

    thats what the actual #s and the actual perfomances say he is and it’s no longer a small sample size.

    use him wherever you need him, he’ll be gone next season.

  56. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    Joba has always been larger than life.

    He had success both as a reliever and as a starter. He had setbacks. He had issues. At times it seemed hte Yankees were just “trying everything” to get him on track and they get blamed for “jerking him around.” I think you also have to look to Joba himself – he has not always showed the best judgment. Again, we only know what we can observe, and we know pretty much nothing of what went on outside our view, outside our hearing.

    I am inclined to think there were issues we don’t know about, and that at the end of the day, both parties in the Joba Journey could have done better.

    But Joba is Joba. And not anyone else. Hughes has said he benefitted from being in the bullpen, but this is disregarded. He has said the he thinks that the first injury he suffered (and likely also the ankle injury that he suffered during the rehab of the hamstring injury) was responsible for the change in his motion, his stride.

    I seriously wish I had the time to watch the other 29 teams and every little thing about them. Because there’s definitely tunnel vision here to a great extent. We are so focused on all this minutia and you put anything under a microscope you’re going to find some flaws.

  57. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    Doreen,

    The Yankees never used any of Joba’s minor league options. They have shown less than stellar judgement when it comes to handling pitchers.

  58. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    joba always struggled when he had to slow down as a starter.
    He was sensational when he came in and blew batters away on pure heat and adrenaline.
    He just seemed better suited for that role and might have relished it enough to want to be the set up man.

  59. blake March 22nd, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    They gave Joba 70ish minor league innings then brought him up for the playoffs as a reliever….then immediately made him a starter again in the big leagues and expected him to have success…..then they had much less rope with him than they have Hughes or Nova…..

    Kevin Kennedy said on the radio today that he asked Cashman once if he asked Joba if he preferred to start or relieve and Joba said he’d rather start……the whole thing was just strange and I hope they’ve learned from it.

  60. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    If a pitcher has at least three good pitches, every effort should be made to find out whether or not he can start.

    If it was just Nuno in isolation, maybe you can make a case for him to be in the pen, but it’s a repetitive pattern that is costly this franchise dearly.

  61. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Well.. if we’re judging based on hype it’s really Phil that has been the biggest disappointment. He was touted as an Ace, no?

    Nova wins the hype game, though.

  62. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    joba’s 26 now and has pitched over 400 major league innings.

    joba’s a serviceable pitcher. he was ok as a back end starter and he’s ok as a middle reliver/sometimes set up guy.

    Ok as a back end starter? Pretty much every young pitcher in the game is going to look like that. Felix Hernandez had a 4.5+ era his first full year in safeco. He showed his awesome talent in 08 as a starter, showed the upper limits of his talent. The Yankees tossed that away.

    Yea Joba is gone after this year, but its not really about joba starting this year, its about him NOT starting in 2010. And the way they handled his development.

  63. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    Joba was excellent in ’08. He was on his way. Until he got hurt. And things were never the same. It’s not all on the Yankees. As I said, both sides probably could have done some things differently. In ’09 no matter what he could not find “it” again. He let himself get out of shape. He labored. He was simply not the same pitcher.

  64. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    He was sensational when he came in and blew batters away on pure heat and adrenaline.

    He was sensational when he showed 4 pitches against the red sox in fenway as a starter.

  65. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    Nova is on the ropes and Phelps is pushing him hard for the 5th starter.
    One more mental lapse period and he will on the block or down on the farm.
    It worked last time, they will do it again.
    If Phelps does the job, it could be Nova’s last shot here.
    Unless Phil implodes, of course.

  66. blake March 22nd, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    I think Joba will be given a chance to start again by somebody…..there are enough pitching starved teams out there to take a flyer on that chance if he wants to do it. If I were the Twins….or the Royals…..or several other teams….I’d try to sign Joba this winter for 5 or 6 million bucks and tell him he’s going to be given the chance to make the rotation……if it doesn’t work out then you still have a good reliever and you haven’t spent that much money……the upside warrants the risk

  67. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    Joba was excellent in ’08. He was on his way. Until he got hurt. And things were never the same. It’s not all on the Yankees. As I said, both sides probably could have done some things differently. In ’09 no matter what he could not find “it” again. He let himself get out of shape. He labored. He was simply not the same pitcher.

    He was coming back from a shoulder injury. The Yankees could have optioned him to the minors, let him pitch in a controlled fashion. Or shut him down. This would be like someone coming off a knee injury and a team going, “Welp you’re not good at walking anymore!” the first time they come back from it. The lasting effects of injuries fade with time. They never explored where Joba would be with a fully injury free offseason and no limits.

  68. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    He was sensational when he showed 4 pitches against the red sox in fenway as a starter.
    ==========================
    again, this was adrenaline based.

  69. blake March 22nd, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    when Joba is on top of his slider it’s wipeout…..it’s a true swing and miss pitch and that plays starting or relieving

  70. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    I seriously wish I had the time to watch the other 29 teams and every little thing about them. Because there’s definitely tunnel vision here to a great extent. We are so focused on all this minutia and you put anything under a microscope you’re going to find some flaws.

    ————–

    Eh, the last thing I want to do is measure our club based on other teams. That’s the fun part about loving the most-winning team in MLB.

    Of course we’ll focus on the minutia of the Yankees. We’re Yankee fans to the extreme. This is not a forum for a casual fan. I’m not saying we’re experts on the Yankees but of all the non-experts out there I think a lot of people on this blog rank at the top.

  71. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    Doreen

    It’s not an excuse, but lots of pitchers aren’t in great shape. They aren’t necessarily athletes. They just have a skill.

  72. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    “again, this was adrenaline based.”

    And you know that because?

  73. Against All Odds March 22nd, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:16 pm
    joba was overhyped from the beginning. this thing that people can’t let go of him as a starter is based on the same assumption that you can’t trade a future hall of famer like montero. he was never what he was built up to be so it’s easy to blame that on the organization instead of the player or the people who were hyping him beyond his ability.

    ———————–

    Joba was overhyped by the section of Yankee fans that assumed the pitcher they saw in 07 was going to be the next Rivera. did they not realize he received mandatory days off that season or that if he warmed up he was brought into the game or that he wasn’t brought into a game with a runner on base until the end of the yr. Joba was the perfect weapon used in the way

  74. blake March 22nd, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    how patient were the Yankees with Hughes when his shoulder acted up and he threw 86 mph all of 2011?

  75. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    again, this was adrenaline based.

    How about his 9 strike out game vs the Padres that year? Or the Jays?

  76. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Jerkface – I do agree (and I’m sure Randy L could find the posts in 09) that I think the better option would have been to have Joba start in AAA in 09.

    But, we’re acting like these players have absolutely no responsibility here, and I’m saying I think there’s more to Joba and the situation than meets the eye.

    Maybe everyone got caught up in the promise of the three young pitchers. Which shouldn’t be, but it happens.

    I guess what I find troublesome is that it seems like people believe that the Yankees weren’t focused on trying to get the best out of Joba they could. I don’t know why they didn’t send him down in 09. I suppose they believed that Joba had proven himself already and he was basically rehabbing, and they figured they could work it out so he could do so and help himself and the club in the meantime. It didn’t work out that way. But I don’t think the intent was a bad one.

  77. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    I always loved Francesas: “Jober always looked maw cumf’tible as a starta.”

  78. austinmac March 22nd, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    Cashman said in an interview they would be looking at other teams’ ” castoffs”. It would seem to me another way to say what they are doing exists. How about saying ” looking at teams with excess at certain spots”or something along those lines?

    I am now told to reduce my expectations to castoffs. Well, okay then.

  79. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    I don’t think a team is necessarily trying to get the best out of a player, but rather getting what they can out of a player in a specific role. Because whats best for the team *right now* is not whats best for the player in some cases. And a forward thinking team needs to take that into account.

  80. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    blake March 22nd, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    how patient were the Yankees with Hughes when his shoulder acted up and he threw 86 mph all of 2011?

    ——————-

    Ugh, what a nightmare that was.. ‘we think the velo will be there when the season starts’…

  81. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    The fact that Musty will win this job and Rivera will either breakdown or not hit and Youk will move to 1st could be what they are looking at. Less wear and tear for the more valuable Youk.

    Just hope they don’t relegate the Must man to a BU3B/utility corner man.

    He has earned his shot…

  82. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    Rich in NJ -

    I know – “see David Wells, see CC Sabathia.”

    But I clearly remember a post by Pat M in 2009 when he saw Joba pitch in person in Anaheim, and he had a seat close to the action. It wasn’t that he was heavy, it was that he was laboring. CC is big, David Wells is big, and while I can’t remember specifics about Wells as clearly, I can say that CC never looks like he is laboring, that his weight is holding him back. I got the distinct impression from Pat M’s post that this wasn’t the case with Joba. And he was not in the same shape he was in in 2008.

  83. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    “But I don’t think the intent was a bad one.”

    Intent is irrelevant. It’s solely about results. And the results of their record in developing starters is not good.

  84. austinmac March 22nd, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    I agree with Ys on Joba. He will be gone. Use him as needed. The ship of what should have happened has sailed.

  85. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Jerkface – I do agree (and I’m sure Randy L could find the posts in 09) that I think the better option would have been to have Joba start in AAA in 09.

    —————–

    Seriously, how does randy do it..? I’ve surmised he’s Dick Cheney in real life.

  86. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    And Joba is not a little guy with the best physique – never was, and I understand that not all pitchers look like Ron Guidry or Andy Pettitte.

  87. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Rich in NJ -

    Intent is not irrelevant.

    And it is also important to keep in mind that they do tend to choose pitchers who are high risk. Joba was one of those.

    Hughes was not. But Joba was.

  88. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    ” I’ve surmised he’s Dick Cheney in real life.”

    So many thoughts. So little time.

  89. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    “again, this was adrenaline based.”And you know that because?
    =================
    its opinion based.

  90. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    I gotta say, I’ve met Joba twice now and once was in 2009 and once in 2010. He was a lot slimmer in person. Both times were during the season so perhaps that had something to do with it.

  91. luis March 22nd, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Good afternoon guys,

    It seems that Nuno is heading for another Noesi type of work… I hope Chad is right and he is sent down once the others heal, and he continues his development as a starter… If they don’t because he has success as Loogy ( very possible ), then they have no clue and worse they are unable to learn from their mistakes. I agree with Rich, an SP is far more valuable than RP, unless he is a closer, and even then, it would depend on the closer.

    About Nova… He has the tools and the makeup to succeed as a starter… he is about to show it this season… About the hype, I think because he was always under the radar, he was able to develop… Otherwise, he would have ended up like Hughes and Joba.

    About Joba…. No one would put a four pitch pitcher on the pen, unless he has already failed as a SP… Same goes with hughes….

  92. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    I agree with Ys on Joba. He will be gone. Use him as needed. The ship of what should have happened has sailed.
    ================
    They will not pay Hughes either.

  93. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    They can go with one lefty in the pen for now.
    Nuno will not be wasted there.

  94. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Doreen

    The reason I say that is because it’s unknowable. So that just leaves results.

    But how is it defensible that back in 2008, Hughes, Joba, and IPK were supposed to anchor the rotation for years to come.

    Yet after some early struggles, none were in the rotation shortly thereafter, and by next year, none may be wearing a Yankee uniform.

    Beyond them, none of the next wave has established themselves as ML starters of any note.

    Those are the results, even if they have the best of intentions.

  95. luis March 22nd, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Y’s has a point… This is water under the bridge… He is gone after this season

  96. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    He is gone after this season
    =================
    Maybe this season…

  97. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    ” I’ve surmised he’s Dick Cheney in real life.”

    So many thoughts. So little time.

    —————

    :lol:

    And totally agree.. it isn’t that the Yankees are actively trying to undermine their own players. No one here thinks they’re doing so intentionally. Especially the young and cheap ones. We rant and rave about results and learning from those results. If Phelps gets less than 100 innings this year, I think some of us will feel okay thinking these guys aren’t learning from their past development trials and tribulations.

    NO PEN FOR PHELPS!

  98. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    Shame -

    I don’t really want to watch all 29 teams and their minutia! I just think that sometimes the vibe here is that everything the Yankees do is wrong, wrong, wrong. And I’d like to have a comparison.

  99. Against All Odds March 22nd, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    the whole thing was just strange and I hope they’ve learned from it.

    ————————

    Probably not they’re very set in their ways :(

  100. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    Joba was a pure power pitcher which translated well in the pen.
    He never delivered this power on a sustainable basis while starting.
    He showed flashes.

  101. PacoDooley March 22nd, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    Ys Guy March 22nd, 2013 at 4:15 pm
    aroldis chapman wants to relieve.
    ———————-

    To me Chapman is a lot like Joba in that he is far more effective in shorter appearances. Actually, he is more extreme, Chapman is an elite reliever and a mediocre starter. He loses a lot of velocity and has not looked elite in the games they have tried him at starter.

  102. luis March 22nd, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    JF,

    Also…. What is good for the team “right now”. is not necessarily what’s best for the team long term either. Those decsions while good for the ” right now” have hurted the team long term. They should learn from this

  103. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    But the Yankees are in the business of winning. (Yeah yeah yeah, until this year, blah, blah, blah :) :) ). They are going to do the most expedient thing to get there and stay there. There will be casualties when the mantra is winning is the most important thing.

    It is the price they have chosen to pay for staying on top.

  104. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    To me Chapman is a lot like Joba in that he is far more effective in shorter appearances. Actually, he is more extreme, Chapman is an elite reliever and a mediocre starter. He loses a lot of velocity and has not looked elite in the games they have tried him at starter.

    Chapman has 16 professional starts. They never gave him the chance. He needed to work on his third pitch and he never got the opportunity. People like hard fastballs, but because a guy can throw 100 in the pen and can’t throw 100 all the time as a starter doesn’t make him less valuable in the starting role. The fact that he CAN dial it up to 100 is a weapon.

    They paid all that money to get a reliever, smh.

  105. mick March 22nd, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    all of these injuries are blessings in disguise.
    nunez will get to show something at SS.
    musty has the team made.
    youk will move to 1st if they want to have his better defense and preserve him.
    phelps will get a start or more and make them demote him.

  106. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    They are going to do the most expedient thing to get there and stay there. There will be casualties when the mantra is winning is the most important thing.

    It is the price they have chosen to pay for staying on top.

    The casualties probably shouldn’t be their top prospects, just saying. I can see org guys, or bottom half top 30 list guys being shuffled around to fill needs. But guys with promising futures, that scouts regard as future all-stars and big time contributors? Why tempt it.

    Or why not do it in a manner that makes more sense? This isn’t hindsight. The handling of these pitchers was ridiculed in real time.

  107. MG March 22nd, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 4:44 pm
    Rich in NJ -

    I know – “see David Wells, see CC Sabathia.”

    But I clearly remember a post by Pat M in 2009 when he saw Joba pitch in person in Anaheim, and he had a seat close to the action. It wasn’t that he was heavy, it was that he was laboring. CC is big, David Wells is big, and while I can’t remember specifics about Wells as clearly, I can say that CC never looks like he is laboring, that his weight is holding him back. I got the distinct impression from Pat M’s post that this wasn’t the case with Joba. And he was not in the same shape he was in in 2008.
    ———————————
    Doreen, here is what Randy said in 2009, very good memory but it was about 2010:

    randy l. September 25th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
    “Kinda hoped that Joba would have had a season comprable to his….He is younger, but still he’s been a disappointment for much of the season….”

    pat m-

    joba is a year younger if i read their bios correctly. i think the red sox did best thing in keeping buchholz down at triple as i understand it to learn how to throw the change up better.

    he was throwing the change very well last night and it was effective. maybe it was a good night for him, and maybe it was a bad team in kansas city, but buchholz was pitching and not just throwing. he was hitting 97 (on the nesn gun) and thowing breaking balls and change ups on the black.

    i haven’t seen that from joba on a consistent basis. what’s worse is that buchholz looks like as a starter like he throws harder than joba. i’m not sure if joba can perfect all his oitches at the mlb level. maybe he can , but maybe he’d be better off at triple a for at least a few months next spring to work on al his pitches and his command.

  108. Against All Odds March 22nd, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 4:43 pm
    I always loved Francesas: “Jober always looked maw cumf’tible as a starta.”

    —————————–

    It’s funny because he doesn’t even mention Joba these days. He was the loudest “Joba is a the next Gossage” d bags.

  109. luis March 22nd, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    Doreen,

    The problem is that by making this types of decisions they have probably made it impossible for them to stay on top for at least three seasons… Their “now” policy has doomed them, combined with the lack of spending…

  110. ron March 22nd, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    Nova has a very long delivery.
    I think he is the type of pitcher that will have a good game,followed by a bad one,maybe 2 good ones,one bad,2 good,2 bad,but struggling to put it together fully.
    Phelps,i think will be just ok.
    Maybe a number 4 starter,wich is fine,but man would i love for us to develop 2 starting pitchers,one ace,and a number two,a good outfielder,one good infielder,and a catcher,so that is only 5,with two being pitchers.
    It stinks that banuelos will miss the year,followed by limitations in 2014.

  111. Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    There is no reason why a team that is willing to spend money can’t manage to develop players while building a quality major league team.

  112. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    MG -

    It was probably unanimous here that Joba should have gone back to AAA at some point.

    But I was thinking of another post, and I don’t think it’s in the archives any longer. There’s a whole chunk of stuff gone missing!

  113. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    Doreen – I can definitely tell you that whatever other teams are doing I would consider it wronger. :D

    If it ever comes across as if we’re saying the Yankees are actually trying to screw their guys up, it’s only being viewed that way because of how frustrated the people expressing themselves are… being articulate while feeling that way can be tough lol.

  114. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    Luis,

    Well, maybe this gives them an opportunity to reset things in more ways than one. But they were on top for a long, long, time.

    And I know people disagree with this outlook, but I have found that there is just a cycle to things, and at some point, the bubble will burst.

    Still, if they are not on top for three seasons, after being on top for close to 20, aren’t we all being a little crazy here? 20 up, 3 down (and we may not be talking down down, just not first or second).

  115. Rich in NJ March 22nd, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    But the Yankees are in the business of winning. (Yeah yeah yeah, until this year, blah, blah, blah ). They are going to do the most expedient thing to get there and stay there. There will be casualties when the mantra is winning is the most important thing.

    It is the price they have chosen to pay for staying on top.
    _

    Doreen

    I would argue that the way they have been mishandling young players makes it more likely that they make the playoffs, but less likely that they have a team that has a good chance to make an extended run in the playoffs.

    That is the problem with many NY teams (contending for the sake of profits without a plan or the willingness to sacrifice in order to be great), and it is my biggest concern about the Hal’s goals going forward.

    So what one views as the top is relative.

  116. Shame Spencer March 22nd, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    Omg…. more of you have access to randy’s crazy comment database?!

    The Illuminati’s work, no doubt.

  117. luis March 22nd, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    Jerkface March 22nd, 2013 at 5:03 pm
    There is no reason why a team that is willing to spend money can’t manage to develop players while building a quality major league team.

    ===============================

    QFT…. But now they are not willing to spend and at the same time they have a spotty record in development… More so,if tyou take in to account all the players that could have been part of this team that have been traded away

  118. tomingeorgia March 22nd, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    Doreen,
    To everything there is a season…
    You’re right about cycles

  119. luis March 22nd, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    Doreen,

    Can’t argue with such sound reasoning… especially the way you put this in perspective ( 20 on top 3 down wow! )… Still, if they had made the right calls, maybe we wouldn’t have to go through a down period… I do hope that they reset things and start acting more like in stick Michael’s time.

    In any case, some new blood is needed in the FO JMHO

  120. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    Jerkface,

    I guess it depends on how they allocate resources.

    And whether long term they see their farm system as more of an out-go than an in-put. If for years, you used your farm to pay for players, why would you care if someone else was going to end up doing the developing.

    If they’re changing their point of view, then it is going to take a lot of time to undo what was done for years and years. And here’s a question. So Cashman put focus back on the farm, but maybe it’s not quite right, and maybe it’s taking longer than was hoped. If it does eventually become a little more fruitful, does it matter that was a year or two later than hoped for? Things happen all the time to derail the best laid plans.

    There are pieces from the farm contributing to the major leagues, both for the Yankees and for other teams due to trade. Do they not count because they’re not superstars? So I’m also not really sure what people are looking for.

    But, here’s the thing. What the heck is development? I want a minor league person to tell me, what do they do in the minor leagues that develops their talent besides drills and playing games? What in particular?

    Everyone throws the word development around here like it’s so many sunflower seeds. What is it? What do you think it is?

    A team that “has to win” every year can’t do things the same way every other team does. they can’t have the patience – they don’t have the luxury of saying, well, this year, we’re bringing up a bunch of rookies, so just wait until next year, fans!

    It’s different here.*

    *Hal will end up seeing it that way too.

  121. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Oh, goodness. I’ve used up all my words for the rest of the month. Sorry. ;)

  122. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    And when I say, to undo what was done n terms of having a working farm system, I’m really talking as much about a mindset as actual physical things.

    Now, one would think that having had a system that produced a Jeter, a Pettitte, a Williams, a Posada and a Rivera, that it wouldn’t take much.

  123. MG March 22nd, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Shame, it’s all on Google, just type randy l lohud yankees and whatever player you want…

  124. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 22nd, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    1. I still believe in my heart of hearts that Joba could and should be a starter.

    2. I believe Joba was mismanaged by the Yankees in several ways. I think in their haste to win, win, win, they stuck Joba in a many different roles as they thought he could handle instead of just staying the course with him and letting him develop as a starter. But one of the biggest ways I think he was mismanaged was in letting him take a back seat to Phil Hughes and treating Hughes like the second coming and Joba as chattel. I blame both Eiland and Girardi for that, as well as Torre before them.

    3. One thing they did not pay attention to as an organization was the vast difference in both the backgrounds and maturity levels of Hughes and Joba. For a kid who came up on a reservation without a mother who had to fight his way to the minors, nobody bothered mentoring him or taking them under his wing, the way it seems Rothschild is wont to do with pitchers. They shoved him into the limelight but didn’t bother to help equip him with the tools he needed to be there.

    When you decide to pretend that this is a cookiecutter world, with neat little molds you can just stick each player into, you definitely operate at your own detriment. For the 100 times you might be able to do it, you should be equipped for 101 and be ready to make a special mold – especially when you have players as special as Joba.

    I’m relatively easy going but I harbor deep resentment about what I consider to be the missteps in Joba’s development. I think it especially saddens me because he really didn’t have any of the benefits of so many of the players. He pretty much did it on his own, with the help of his wheel-chair bound father. Even many players from Latin America have had the benefit of some kind of development in their own countries. Joba really did not.

    :(

  125. MG March 22nd, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    Doreen, it takes two things to develop young players and see them star in the majors-patience and more patience.

    Each of those guys (with the exception of Jeter, who was untouchable) took more than a few years to develop in the minors and then took some time to develop while playing in the majors; Bernie was a regular or semi-regular for a few years for the Yankees, Andy had a great rookie season then struggled a little the following year, Mo was a failed starter, etc, etc, etc.

    If they had come up a few years earlier (or later) they probably would have been traded for the established star of the year but the Yankees were so bad in the 89-92 time frame it didn’t matter and by 94-95 they had the core in place for a dynasty.

    It’s unlikely we’ll ever see another dynasty in baseball, the game is being pushed in the direction of the NFL and parity.

  126. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 22nd, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    I’ve seen posters rave about the way the Rays are run. (can’t say exactly which posters since I don’t memorize lohud). Well the Rays have done it without the benefit of the Yankees financial resources. If you’re someone who wants the Yankees to open up their wallets but also have raved about the Rays organization (not sure if there is a subset of posters though I would think there is) it should make sense to you that it really isn’t all about the $$$$ after all.

    ************

    Did anyone notice the Yanks won today by a score of 9-7? Does that give a little bit of the warm and fuzzies to anyone who’s worried about the Yankee hitting, or would you rather pretend today never happened…

  127. Yankee Trader March 22nd, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    Didn’t see the game today.
    Did Mustelier have enough chances at 3rd to earn his stripes and go North with the team as opening day third baseman?

  128. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    MG -

    Thank you.

    So, is it possible, that sometimes a team has to be relatively rock-bottom to be able to use patience? When there is literally no other choice?

    At any rate I do agree that those players and that set of circumstances was incredibly special. And we keep hoping to recreate it, and that won’t ever happen again.

  129. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 22nd, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    J Al and YF – please give me the way “sfogliatelle” is pronounced in your neck of the woods! The very first time I heard the pronunciation, there is no way I associated it with the spelling of the word!!!

    :)

  130. tomingeorgia March 22nd, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    trisha,
    Not many concerned with the games on the field. It’s all about management.

  131. Doreen March 22nd, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    Hmm. You guys should go back to the Joba discussions of July 1, 2009.

    It really is very interesting. the conversation and the participants.

    CB said something with regard to Joba, that I think is appropriate today if you substitute “Yankees” for”Joba.” and here it is:
    ***

    CB July 1st, 2009 at 1:57 am
    “Why does Joba have to be exciting to watch? ”

    More and more these issues with Joba remind me of what Brazil’s national soccer team has to deal with.

    It’s not enough that their soccer team win. It’s not even enough for them to score a lot of goals. They have to play the “beautiful game” to make their fans and the media there placated. The aesthetics of the game are as important – if not more than how much they win.

    People don’t only demand that Joba pitch well or helps the team wing. They want electricity watching him. They’re demanding that he gives them goosebumps. That’s the way success is being defined for him.

    It’s a near impossible standard to meet.

  132. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 22nd, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    tom – you really miss the forest for the trees if you insist on theory as opposed to practical application!


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