The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


New look (not necessarily) coming to the LoHud Yankees Blog

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Mar 24, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

We had a plan, you see. Pick a slow day, and use that to roll out a new blog format and begin working out the kinks. Of course, we picked today, which made a lot more sense before the Yankees decided to trade for Vernon Wells.

Ken Rosenthal reports that the Yankees will pay less than $10 million of the $42 million remaining on Wells’ contract. That means no more than $5 million average annual value counting toward the luxury tax threshold, and that’s $1.5 million less than the Yankees are paying Ichiro Suzuki per year. Whether it’s worth it, obviously, depends on Wells’ production, and how the Yankees spend elsewhere going forward.

As for this blog, you should see the re-design right away, and our old friend Jeff Marx will be making tweaks and changes for the next hour or so. Things might look a little awkward at times, but Jeff has it under control.

UPDATE, 9:02 p.m.: Well, apparently things didn’t work out quite right, so we’re sticking with the old theme and might try again at some point.

Meanwhile, it’s looking like the Yankees will pay $13 million for two years of Wells, and Joel Sherman says most of that money will be paid this year so that it doesn’t disrupt financial plans for 2014. I honestly didn’t know teams could do that — thought average annual value would be the ruling factor even with money coming in from the Angels — but apparently not.

Comments

comments

 

Advertisement

338 Responses to “New look (not necessarily) coming to the LoHud Yankees Blog”

  1. ac1 March 24th, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    13 is not under 10

  2. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    Chad,

    Vernon Wells AAV is 18, so if the Yankees were on the hook for 5 per year the luxury tax hit is only 2 per year. As it turns out its 13 total for the Yankees, so they will owe 3.5 per year on the luxury tax for vernon wells.

    6.5 on actual physical payroll. Makes no sense. Absolutely no sense. Disaster trade. Absolutely stupid. That the Yankees might actually trade someone for the privilege is insane.

  3. Doreen March 24th, 2013 at 8:46 pm

    ac1 no amount has really been announced/confirmed by the Yankees.

  4. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    I just heard about this: not the best news after eating Southern Indian food.

    It’s as if Cashman has become completely dysfunctional, and is now making moves just to tweak the fanbase.

    He’s a man on a mission: a suicide mission.

    Vernon Wells. smh

  5. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    @Joelsherman1 12s

    Hearing #Yankees will pay almost all of $13M they r responsible to Wells in ’13 so as not to put toward $189M payroll goal in ’14

    Explaining this. Wells is owed 21 per year for 2013 and 2014. His AAV for luxury tax purposes is 18 per season. If the Yankees decided to pay 12 million of that 21 in 2013 and 1 million in 2014, then for LUXURY TAX PURPOSES they would owe 9 million in 2013 and -2 million in 2014. You read that right, they would basically be receiving a credit to their payroll in 2014. That makes 189 into 191.

    Its still stupid because Vernon Wells sucks and they should be able to get more than 29 million from the Angels, but this is the smartest implementation of their stupid deal.

  6. LevinsonSF March 24th, 2013 at 8:51 pm

    Until we get the official details of the trade; all these negative comments…i.e., insane move are over the top! Wells is a major league player (good on defense if I remember correctly) and I think might be able to help us till Grandy is back…and then might be a good 4 outfielder and we sure do need a right handed bat. I think he might be a much better candidate than some of the ones we have been trying out. How about we wait and see.

  7. RhapsodyInBlue March 24th, 2013 at 8:52 pm

    Figured something spooky was going on I’ve been knocked off the site a few times.

    Just attributed it to Vernon Wells and bad karma.

  8. CompassRosy March 24th, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    Shame Spencer March 24th, 2013 at 6:47 pm
    Remember when we were all like, ‘how many DHs do the Mariners need?!’

    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    not to mention first basemen ;)

    Maybe Jack Z and Eric Wedge are taking a page from John Schneider and Pete Carroll…
    “Always Compete!”

    M’s combined ST numbers for 1B and DH = 16 HR ~ 42 RBI ~ .972 OPS
    yeah, ‘t is only ST but, encouraging nonetheless

  9. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    Until we get the official details of the trade; all these negative comments…i.e., insane move are over the top! Wells is a major league player (good on defense if I remember correctly) and I think might be able to help us till Grandy is back…and then might be a good 4 outfielder and we sure do need a right handed bat. I think he might be a much better candidate than some of the ones we have been trying out. How about we wait and see.

    No, sorry. Vernon was good on defense…in 2006. He isn’t anymore and has been below replacement level the past 2 years. And they are paying a helluva lotta money for the privilege.

  10. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    Blue, that was my thought when I couldn’t get on the site.

  11. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 8:55 pm

    I don’t know why you even bother…

  12. LGY March 24th, 2013 at 8:55 pm

    The Yankees traded for Vernon Wells?

    You have to be friggin kidding me

  13. Sir Harden Thick March 24th, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    okay so if they’re going to pay the 13mil then there’s no way they can give a legit prospect up right?

  14. LGY March 24th, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    Trading for Vernon Wells is dumbest GM in sports territory.

  15. luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    Good evening everyone,

    Wow!! When I thought that the worst may be over, this trade… This guys are clueless… Another past his prime aging veteran…. On top of it, eating a good chunk of a very limited payroll space, no matter if they only pay him 5 mil per year… Cano is gone, Hughes is probably gone too, same goes with Joba. Unless they scrap the 189 mil cap.

    If they are trying to sale Pat… They are doing a lousy job at adding value to the franchise… Management 101: Never abandone investing on the product of the company, because if you do so, whatever financial advantage you get from it short term, it will hit you in the long run… I guess the short term thinking no longer is limited to baseball operations, but financial operations as well…. I think this is one of the worst runned organizations in the world.

  16. Pat M. March 24th, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    LGY…….I was looking forward to your arrival here !!!!! Wells to The Bronx, man they’re rolling the dice and hoping for a 7 / 11. As I posted earlier, he’s swung that bat real well this spring and looks real good. However I saw him play for the first time with a glove . Where’s Matt Holliday when you need a righthand hitting leftfielder ????

  17. 4 NYY March 24th, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    Another “diver” from the dumpster !

    We’ ll soon find out.

    I hear Elvio Jiminez is still alive too !

  18. RhapsodyInBlue March 24th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    Holding out hope the ptbnl is on the Miami PED list.

  19. hardwired7 March 24th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    I think an Angels fan on MLBTR summed this up perfectly:

    “I love that there is no discussion of who the Angels might get, yet we are all salivating for it to happen.”

  20. Pat M. March 24th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    luis….Their aim would be to trim and scaledown expenses and overhead which would be most attractive and still turn in a sizeable profit. Almost like a blank canvus for the new ownership…. This looks like it.

  21. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    @Joelsherman1 12s

    Hearing #Yankees will pay almost all of $13M they r responsible to Wells in ’13 so as not to put toward $189M payroll goal in ’14

    Explaining this. Wells is owed 21 per year for 2013 and 2014. His AAV for luxury tax purposes is 18 per season. If the Yankees decided to pay 12 million of that 21 in 2013 and 1 million in 2014, then for LUXURY TAX PURPOSES they would owe 9 million in 2013 and -2 million in 2014. You read that right, they would basically be receiving a credit to their payroll in 2014. That makes 189 into 191.

    Its still stupid because Vernon Wells sucks and they should be able to get more than 29 million from the Angels, but this is the smartest implementation of their stupid deal.
    ———–

    From a money standpoint it actually works out even better for the Yankees.

    Assuming that the Yankees give Vernon Wells $12 M this year and $1 M next year it only ends up costing the Yankees, at most $5 M this year because the WBC is paying for Tex while he’s on the DL (at least $7M).

    If Tex doesn’t return, or if he does and has to go back on the DL for the same injury the WBC continues paying.

  22. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    LGY March 24th, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    Trading for Vernon Wells is dumbest GM in sports territory.
    ———–

    Could be worse – didn’t give up anything of value for him.

  23. Tar March 24th, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    If this is just a roster swap for someone like Rivera or Francisco, ok they are fungible. but why pay that much? And thats not even knowing who we are sending back.

    It make no sense to put this team in the 189 hole they have, and than spend what they did on Youk, Ichiro and now Wells.

  24. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    Again, it’s a minor deal in terms of likely impact but there are a couple of things:

    1) It makes the fact that the team passed on Scott Hairston seem sillier.

    2) There’s still the matter of the roster crunch which now got crunchier.

    3) It will be very interesting to see how Cashman describes this trade since it was only a couple of weeks ago when he said that good players aren’t available on the market this time of year.

  25. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    Pat M. March 24th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    luis….Their aim would be to trim and scaledown expenses and overhead which would be most attractive and still turn in a sizeable profit. Almost like a blank canvus for the new ownership…. This looks like it.
    ————-

    It’s possible that they’re preparing the club for a sale. However, I would need to see more to believe that is the case. They could be just trying to bridge the gap to a youth movement in 2014-2015.

  26. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Tar,

    It sounds like, according to what Chad’s reporting, that AAV doesn’t factor into the Luxury Tax, that it’s actually based on real dollar value of the contract in the given year.

    Given that – the Yankees could still hit $189 depending on how they fudge the numbers.

  27. pat March 24th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Joel Sherman?@Joelsherman1
    Keep hearing Wells is not end for #Yankees would love to find 1b upgrade b4 Opening Day or LH complement to play with Juan Rivera

  28. LGY March 24th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Hal is is obsessed with getting under 189 he’s basically handcuffed the franchise with 1 year deals the past two years.

    Yet he approves a trade in which the Yankees will pay $13M for a below replacement level player?

    It’s incomprehensible.

  29. luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:12 pm

    Pat,

    Maybe… But from an entreprenuerial point of view, this moves are the wrong ones… This kind of moves will lower their revenues in a very short time, so yeah you are cutting costs, but at the same time you are going to take a hit on the revenue side… My experience is that when you do that to the core of a business, whatever you save by cutting costs is offset by the hit in revenues… If I wanted to sale the club, what I would do is wait until it peaks again… They are going to leave a lot of money if they simply sale within the next two to three years

  30. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:13 pm

    hardwired7 March 24th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    I think an Angels fan on MLBTR summed this up perfectly:

    “I love that there is no discussion of who the Angels might get, yet we are all salivating for it to happen.”
    ============

    lol!

    In truth, Wells is probably marginally better than Francisco and/or Rivera. This is the only operable comparison at this stage of the game. If we didn’t give up too much to get him, it probably improved the club, somewhat.

  31. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    Pat M. March 24th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    luis….Their aim would be to trim and scaledown expenses and overhead which would be most attractive and still turn in a sizeable profit. Almost like a blank canvus for the new ownership…. This looks like it.
    —————-

    I don’t think it’s anything that malevolent. I think it’s more that the Yankees have a fairly disengaged owner who looks at the payroll and then looks at the stats and says “wait, we’re the only team who ever won a world series with a payroll north of $200 mil? So the huge payroll’s not needed to win…let’s cut it back to get with the pack.”

    The theory is fair, but in reality the teams that have won the World Series haven’t had as much money tied up in as few players as the Yankees do and since you can’t get rid of those contracts, it ties the hands of your GM.

  32. LGY March 24th, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    Hey Pat. How are you buddy?

    I’ve barely had time to keep up with Yankee news the past couple months. Lucky me, one of the few times I check in I see they traded for Vernon Wells

  33. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    LGY March 24th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Hal is is obsessed with getting under 189 he’s basically handcuffed the franchise with 1 year deals the past two years.

    Yet he approves a trade in which the Yankees will pay $13M for a below replacement level player?

    It’s incomprehensible.
    —————–

    2 things:

    Of the $13 mil at least $7 mil is money that the Yankees will get back from the WBC for Tex’s injury.

    Apparently the Yankees can pay the bulk of the contract now and not have it count against their $189 next year.

  34. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    LGY March 24th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Hal is is obsessed with getting under 189 he’s basically handcuffed the franchise with 1 year deals the past two years.

    Yet he approves a trade in which the Yankees will pay $13M for a below replacement level player?

    It’s incomprehensible.
    =================

    I don’t think that Hal is at all obsessed with getting under $189MM. I think that many of the folks on this blog is obsessed with the $189MM threshold.

  35. Carlo March 24th, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    Awful news. Sherman reporting yanks not done. cashman could do even more damage before now and sunday.

  36. MTU March 24th, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    Who needs Wells.

    And who needs a 1st basemen when we have Youkilis.

    Mustelier should be playing 3rd for at least the 1st month.

    Keystone cops is what you’re seeing.

    And maybe my instinct that Hal wants to sell is right.

    ;)

  37. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    LGY -

    But I’m with you on Hal. If you read the article about him in the NY Times his quotes paint the picture of a man who is cherry picking the numbers he wants to look at and as a result not getting a big picture point of view.

  38. 4 NYY March 24th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    Hal said he’s getting down to the $189 million and is NOT selling the Yanks.

    It’s evident that the first part is true, what about the second ?

  39. Mike in Harrisburg March 24th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    Tribe have released Dice-K. Expect an announcement from Yankees PR any moment…

  40. luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    Selling… thank you MTU… I knew I was screwing it up somewhere

  41. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    I don’t think $189 is impossible, just that the Yankees picked the wrong time to try it.

    They came into this winter with an older roster and their best young players are still a couple of years away. Hard to fill those gaps with quality and not spend any money.

    Of course this presupposes that the Yankees would be inclined to trust their top young players to…you know…play for them.

  42. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    It sounds like, according to what Chad’s reporting, that AAV doesn’t factor into the Luxury Tax, that it’s actually based on real dollar value of the contract in the given year.

    The AAV does factor into the luxury tax, its just that cash considerations are a credit/debit in the year they are received.

  43. luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    JAP,

    By the way… Didn’t answered your post the other day… I had to leave in a hurry, but yeah, I am comingto NY in May, provided that I amable to leave the country ;)

  44. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    It sounds like, according to what Chad’s reporting, that AAV doesn’t factor into the Luxury Tax, that it’s actually based on real dollar value of the contract in the given year.

    The AAV does factor into the luxury tax, its just that cash considerations are a credit/debit in the year they are received.
    ———————

    So it only works for players you acquire via trade and not players you sign. Gotcha. Thanks.

  45. RadioKev March 24th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    At the end of the day, if Vernon plays well, we won’t care how much he’s paid.

    I’m not holding out much hope, but I do think he has more potential than Boesch or Francisco.

    But of course there’s reason to be frustrated here.

  46. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    I don’t think $189 is impossible, just that the Yankees picked the wrong time to try it.

    They came into this winter with an older roster and their best young players are still a couple of years away. Hard to fill those gaps with quality and not spend any money.

    Of course this presupposes that the Yankees would be inclined to trust their top young players to…you know…play for them.
    ============

    If Almonte or Mesa had shown something this spring, we might not be having this conversation.

  47. MTU March 24th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    Eppler: I didn’t want Wells. Don’t blame it on me.

    Cashman: I didn’t want Wells either.

    Levine: Don’t look at me.

    Hank: No comment.

    :)

  48. Tar March 24th, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    CHip

    I get that, but if they want to get to 189 don’t they have to eventually get younger and cheaper?

    I think fans like me (and maybe you) have accepted the 189 cap. But if the Yankees are going to do that, they at least have to have a future plan in place, other than getting to that goal.

    Start playing the kids, make trades that get you younger and shed payroll, not take on payroll with aging vets on 1yr deals.

  49. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    Chad,

    Teams can send asymmetrical amounts of money (the Yankees did with AJ burnett) and here is how it counts. This is from the CBA:

    (iii) Cash Consideration: An assignor Club that pays cash consideration in lieu of assigning an unnamed player or to defray all or part of the salary obligation of the assignee Club for an assigned Player shall include such cash consideration in its Actual Club Payroll in the Contract Year in which the cash consideration is paid; provided, however, that any such cash consideration included as part of a Player assignment made during the 2016
    Contract Year but not payable until the 2017 Contract Year shall be included in the assignor Club’s 2016 Actual Club Payroll to the extent that the assignee Club does not have equivalent salary obli-gations under Player contracts obtained in the assignment in the
    2017 championship season or beyond. Any cash consideration that is, pursuant to the preceding sentence, included in the Actual Club Payroll of the payor Club shall be subtracted from the Actual 101 Club Payroll of the payee Club in the same Contract Year in which it is added to the payor Club’s Actual Club Payroll.

  50. Pat M. March 24th, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    LGY……When I heard of this you & The Face were the first thing I thought of….Hey guys, keep in mind that they just sold off a piece of YES. I really don’t know what their longterm direction is other than this elmers glue and bazzuka bubble gum approach. Much has to go right in 2013 if they’re going to play in October

  51. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    Sherman’s post that Scoscia liked Wells better than others in the LAA front office makes sense. He was the one who pushed for the deal that brought Wells to the Angels in the first place for Napoli.

  52. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    Any cash consideration that is, pursuant to the preceding sentence, included in the Actual Club Payroll of the payor Club shall be subtracted from the Actual Club Payroll of the payee Club in the same Contract Year in which it is added to the payor Club’s Actual Club Payroll.

    This is the money line. Actual Club Payroll is the payroll as calculated for luxury tax purposes.

  53. Tar March 24th, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    Chip you already kind of answered, Im multi-tasking and not doing a very good job at it.

  54. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    RadioKev March 24th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    At the end of the day, if Vernon plays well, we won’t care how much he’s paid.

    I’m not holding out much hope, but I do think he has more potential than Boesch or Francisco.

    But of course there’s reason to be frustrated here.
    ========

    Wells should be okay as part of a platoon and as a bench player. I’m not wild about this deal, but it’s hardly worth all of this commotion.

  55. mick March 24th, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    UPDATE, 9:02 p.m.: Well, apparently things didn’t work out quite right, so we’re sticking with the old theme and might try again at some point.
    =============================
    Don’t bother, why mess up a good thing?

  56. luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:26 pm

    I have to correct myself… The only reason you stop investing on the core side of a business is because you are changing direction altogether ( usually because the business enviroment or new technologies have made the product unatractive or that there are simply better alternatives )

  57. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    you cant accuse hal of being too cheap then attack him for picking up a player who is going to cost only money and actually lower their payroll amount for last year.

    as i said before, i dont much like wells but if they are picking him up w/o giving up a real prospect AND it doesn’t hurt next year’s LT payroll amount, i’m ok with it.

  58. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    Tar,

    Ghostwriter took the words right out of my mouth. Yes the Yankees do have to play their young players if they want to cut payroll, but (and keep in mind I’m a huge Almonte fan) both Almonte and Mesa look like they need a lot more time in the minor leagues.

    You have to give young players an opportunity, but then the second half of that is that the players have to take that opportunity and run with it. Mesa, Almonte, Corban Joseph – they all got a long look this spring because of injuries and the WBC – all of them had a shot to make the 25 – and none of them showed the Yankees that they deserved a spot.

  59. MTU March 24th, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    I never liked Scioscia but at least I gave him credit for being smart.

    If he pushed for Wells and his atrocious contract I’d have to rethink that.

    When Wells was finally unloaded to the Halos you could hear the cheers continents away.

  60. RMS March 24th, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    Yanks didn’t want Melky, but will spend 13 million on Wells who is about cooked.

  61. CompassRosy March 24th, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    EscapeTheLines ?@EscapeTheLines 7m
    Get your Florida Gulf Coast University Eagles Gear from Amazon http://bit.ly/14o6dK8 #FGCU #MarchMadness

    Eric Stangel ? @EricStangel
    Even Siri hadn’t heard of FGCU… #MarchMadness pic.twitter.com/FVCB1eAsxA

    :-)

  62. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    YS Guy -

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – it’s not how much you spend, it’s how you spend it. The Mets and Orioles used to spend tons of money on bad players while the Yankees were spending it wisely.

    On a semi-related note: The Yankees used to be great at identifying and separating their good prospects from their not so good ones. They would then pump and dump the latter group while keeping their best guys. It seems they’ve lost that touch as of late.

  63. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:26 pm

    I have to correct myself… The only reason you stop investing on the core side of a business is because you are changing direction altogether ( usually because the business enviroment or new technologies have made the product unatractive or that there are simply better alternatives )
    ============

    Luis salries aren’t capital investments; they’re expenses. And the Yanks’ salries have been out of line for several years. Moreover, they are paying a significant penalty on top of the exorbitant salaries that they are paying. Whether we like it or not, cutting back on salary expenses is the right thing for the Yanks to do, and it doesn’t suggest that they’ve stopped investing in the core side of the business.

  64. RadioKev March 24th, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    RMS March 24th, 2013 at 9:28 pm
    Yanks didn’t want Melky, but will spend 13 million on Wells who is about cooked.
    ———-

    I’m honestly surprised it took this long for the Melky comment

  65. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    the yankees have wasted more money on crappy players than any other team in baseball history.

    much more than either the orioles or the mets ever did.

  66. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    RadioKev March 24th, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    RMS March 24th, 2013 at 9:28 pm
    Yanks didn’t want Melky, but will spend 13 million on Wells who is about cooked.
    ———-

    I’m honestly surprised it took this long for the Melky comment
    ——————-

    I was waiting for a “we wouldn’t need a right handed bat at all if we still had Montero”

  67. luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Chip, Tar,

    So going along your line of thought…. Mustelier has made a case to be taken North… Do you guys think that they are taking him with the team?… I honestly don’t think so… They are looking for a 1 baseman as well

  68. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    i mean, c’mon, the yankees signed that arod contract…

    nobody’s every gonna beat that.

  69. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    the yankees have wasted more money on crappy players than any other team in baseball history.

    much more than either the orioles or the mets ever did.
    —————–

    Yeah I guess

  70. MTU March 24th, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    The Vernon Wells trade even crashed the blog as someone above pointed out.

    That ought to tell you something.

    :)

  71. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    primo, good deal, and stay out of trouble! :D

    The kid will be here in the middle of the month, incidentally. He dodged a bullet yesterday.

  72. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    And the Yanks’ salries have been out of line for several years. Moreover, they are paying a significant penalty on top of the exorbitant salaries that they are paying.

    Not true, they are paying salaries in line with what the rest of baseball is paying for similar performance/players. They are doing so with MUCH larger revenues, thus able to pay for more simultaneous contracts. The ‘significant penalty’ has been around 3-5% of revenues. They are essentially paying sales tax on these guys. Not a big deal.

    Not spending on players does not solve the problem of baseball salaries increasing. It only solves the problem of the Yankees having talented players. By cutting back on salaries they will ensure they have few to none.

  73. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    that being said, i never like wells. but he’s got some RH power which they’re desperate for.

    if everyone comes back healthy , wells becomes a bench bat, which he’s been ok at.

    and it doesnt hurt the payroll going forward.

  74. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    i mean, c’mon, the yankees signed that arod contract…

    nobody’s every gonna beat that.
    ————–

    Can’t ding them on that – when they signed it they had visions of the contract paying for itself by marketing him as the eventual “Clean HR Champ”

    The difference between the old bad contracts and today’s bad contracts is that the Yankees never let a Kenny Rogers or Raul Mondesi preclude them from making other moves the way a Tex or even AJ Burnett contract did.

  75. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Chip, Tar,

    So going along your line of thought…. Mustelier has made a case to be taken North… Do you guys think that they are taking him with the team?… I honestly don’t think so… They are looking for a 1 baseman as well
    ==============

    I think that Musty did enough to make the team. The Yanks deciding to start the year with Musty at Triple-A wouldn’t be the worst move in the world, because they can always call him up when Rivera falters.

    Now… If the Yanks included Musty in the deal for Wells, I give up.

  76. RMS March 24th, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    I’m honestly surprised it took this long for the Melky comment

    ————————————————————————————————–
    Who would you rather have, Ichiro and Wells or Melky?

  77. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    ichriro.

    melky’s up for 100 game suspension and he’s probably off the ped’s now.

  78. David in Cal March 24th, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    The Yanks now have a whole bunch of outfielders who are questionable, to say the least. How would they rank in overall value (combined hitting, fielding, baserunning)? Is Wells this year better than Ben Francisco, Musty, Rivera, Neal, Mesa, and Boesch? Maybe he is. That’s a sorry looking list. I’m notg sure any of them is a true major leaguer.

    And, if you ask that same question about 2014, you get a different answer.

  79. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    Melky ST OPS 1.024
    Montero ST OPS 1.007

  80. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    RMS March 24th, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    I’m honestly surprised it took this long for the Melky comment

    ————————————————————————————————–
    Who would you rather have, Ichiro and Wells or Melky?
    ///

    Um, yeah. Melky.

  81. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Chip, Tar,

    So going along your line of thought…. Mustelier has made a case to be taken North… Do you guys think that they are taking him with the team?… I honestly don’t think so… They are looking for a 1 baseman as well
    ———————–

    I don’t know.

    There are arguments either way.

    Clearly Mustelier is out performing Rivera – however Rivera has played well. So the Yankees could look at the situation this way: They can keep both players by taking Rivera north and sending Mustelier to Scranton. That way if Rivera plays badly or if there’s another injury, they have Mustelier to call upon. On the other hand, if they take Mustelier, Rivera has played well enough that he wouldn’t have to settle for minor league assignment. If he leaves and Mustelier struggles, then you don’t have anyone to reach down for.

    Personally I would take Mustelier, I think he’s better and that the team is better with Youk at 1b than at 3b. For another thing, with all the injuries I think you have to protect Youk who is suddenly one of the better players on the team. Kevin is more likely to stay healthy at 1b than he is at 3b.

  82. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    wow that makes montero twice as good in ST as he is in real games!

  83. luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    Ghost,

    Excuse me…But the core product of a baseball team is the players that actually play the game and induces the public to pay to go to the stadium and watch TV or cable, which produces ratings that in turn make those games more atractive to advertising… So cutting salaries is a way of not investing in this case.

    About the need to cut payroll and at the same time invest in the future, I agree with you… The problem is that in order to do that, they need to have a coherent plan… I don’t see that, sorry… As you very well know, I am a big proponent of going young (after all this is a game for young people ;) ) …. If this were the case, why are they looking for a 1 baseman, when they already have one in Youkilis and Mustelier has made a case to stick at third?

  84. pkyankfan69 March 24th, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    RMS March 24th, 2013 at 9:39 pm
    I’m honestly surprised it took this long for the Melky comment

    ————————————————————————————————–
    Who would you rather have, Ichiro and Wells or Melky?
    ——————————————
    For the next 2 years Melky and Ichiro are close… Wells is WAAAYYYYYYYYYY behind.

  85. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    And the Yanks’ salries have been out of line for several years. Moreover, they are paying a significant penalty on top of the exorbitant salaries that they are paying.

    Not true, they are paying salaries in line with what the rest of baseball is paying for similar performance/players. They are doing so with MUCH larger revenues, thus able to pay for more simultaneous contracts. The ‘significant penalty’ has been around 3-5% of revenues. They are essentially paying sales tax on these guys. Not a big deal.

    Not spending on players does not solve the problem of baseball salaries increasing. It only solves the problem of the Yankees having talented players. By cutting back on salaries they will ensure they have few to none.
    ===================

    It is true. The Yanks’ salries are out of line with their own history, and they are out of line with the rest of the league’s payrolls.

    And 3 to 5 percent of an enormous number IS a big deal. It’s only not a big deal on a blog, when we’re talking about somebody else’s money.

  86. 4 NYY March 24th, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    ST means little in most cases.

  87. MTU March 24th, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    IMO Mustelier has earned a spot on the ML roster.

    He’s done evrything asked of him and more. He young and dynamic. And he’s hungry.

    Why send him to AAA as a reward ? To keep other less deserving players on the Roster.

    Sure. That makes a ton of sense.

    ;)

  88. theREALkevin March 24th, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    I don’t even know what to say about this. I honestly want to vomit.

  89. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    Melky ST OPS 1.024
    Montero ST OPS 1.007
    ————–

    Vernon Wells ST OPS: 1.112

    I mean as long as we’re using meaningless stats and all…

  90. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    if you go by ST stats, yasiel puig and howie kendrick are the two best players in baseball!

  91. 4 NYY March 24th, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    Chip March 24th, 2013 at 9:44 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    Melky ST OPS 1.024
    Montero ST OPS 1.007
    ————–

    Vernon Wells ST OPS: 1.112

    I mean as long as we’re using meaningless stats and all…

    ===============

    Exactly !

  92. Tar March 24th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    “Do you guys think that they are taking him with the team?… I honestly don’t think so”

    Nope. They will play a veteran who has barely ever played 1B, over a younger player with upside. Oh wait he’s had a good Spring, SMH.

    Rivera should be a RH platoon DH, emergency starter. Not the Yankees starting 1B

  93. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    It is true. The Yanks’ salries are out of line with their own history, and they are out of line with the rest of the league’s payrolls.

    And 3 to 5 percent of an enormous number IS a big deal. It’s only not a big deal on a blog, when we’re talking about somebody else’s money.

    How is it out of line with their own histories? You may as well argue for reserve clause and salaries to be kicked back to pre-inflation WW2 numbers. The yankee TEAMS have been well in line with their history, that is: being assembled of a large collection of very good players. And truthfully the Yankees have always been at the top or near the top in player payroll.

    25 million in luxury tax is not a big deal, not for a team that rakes in the cash, has a stadium funded with tax exempt bonds, and numerous side deals that hide revenue from major league baseball, at a time when MLB is raking in billions in profit.

    I bet you thought a billion dollar penalty for ruining the ocean was a steep price for those oil companies.

  94. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    btw, keep your eyes on puig, it looks like mattingly is going to bring him up and find him a place to play…

  95. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    Well, let’s see, Melky had a .906 plus OPS last season. Close enough.

    Montero is going to mash this season. Not for the Yankees, though. But take heart: we have Vernon Wells now!

  96. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    he was going to mash last year too. but im rooting for him.

    i actually drafted him. last player taken.

  97. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    Vernon Wells ST OPS: 1.112

    I mean as long as we’re using meaningless stats and all…
    ///

    Yeah, it’s pretty impressive for a 90 year old. Lots to look forward to. We should all be very excited by another stealth Cash move.

  98. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    random thoughts, I think Hyun-Jin Ryu on the dodgers will have a very good year.

  99. luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Ghost,

    I have given up on them already…. I simply have no faith in the FO anymore… :(

  100. blake March 24th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Joel Sherman?@Joelsherman1
    Keep hearing Wells is not end for #Yankees would love to find 1b upgrade b4 Opening Day or LH complement to play with Juan Rivera

    Lets take all of morneu’s contract while were at it

  101. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    Ghost,

    Excuse me…But the core product of a baseball team is the players that actually play the game and induces the public to pay to go to the stadium and watch TV or cable, which produces ratings that in turn make those games more atractive to advertising… So cutting salaries is a way of not investing in this case.

    About the need to cut payroll and at the same time invest in the future, I agree with you… The problem is that in order to do that, they need to have a coherent plan… I don’t see that, sorry… As you very well know, I am a big proponent of going young (after all this is a game for young people ;) ) …. If this were the case, why are they looking for a 1 baseman, when they already have one in Youkilis and Mustelier has made a case to stick at third?
    ==================

    It seems to me that they do have a fairly coherent plan. The problem is getting from here to there. They are rebuilding a young core of ptichers around which the team will be built (possibly Hughes, Pineda, Nova, Phelps, etc.). They are buying time for the youngsters with the contracts for Pettitte and Kuroda. They seem to have a core of a young outfield (Gardener, Williams, Heathcott, Almonte, etc.) developing, a couple of solid young catching prospects (Romine and Sanchez), and they will fill in the infield with free agent acquisitions (including Cano), as they phase out Teix and ARod. The next couple years are going to be a bit tough, but they should still be competitive.

  102. PhiltheThrill March 24th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    There’s no prospect in the Wells trade.

  103. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    wells is 34

  104. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    ghost well put.

    they have to wait out the stupid contracts that everyone wanted them to sign.

  105. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    So Juan Rivera, barring trade, is our 1Bman?

    I think thats the nail in the coffin on Mustelier.

  106. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    they have to wait out the stupid contracts that everyone wanted them to sign.

    No they don’t. They can just spend like a team with their revenues should and sign good players.

  107. luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    Chip,

    Good post and thank you… Very thoughtful… And I would take Mustelier north with the team as well

  108. jmills March 24th, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    Vernon. Wow,Yankee fans, I didn’t see this one a’ comin’.

  109. ac1 March 24th, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    Yanks still want a lefty 1b?
    Why cant they just be happy with youk at 1b and musty at 3b?
    Let rivera back him up and nix back up 3rd.

  110. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    LGY March 24th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Hal is is obsessed with getting under 189 he’s basically handcuffed the franchise with 1 year deals the past two years.

    Yet he approves a trade in which the Yankees will pay $13M for a below replacement level player?

    It’s incomprehensible.
    _

    Nothing else to say. It’s a mess.

  111. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    yeah the way to get past stupid contracts everybody wanted them to sign is to just sign more stupid contracts.

    thats what george did.

    thats why don mattingly never won a playoff series.

  112. blake March 24th, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    The Yankees spend more money on nothing than Mike Tyson ever could

  113. Tar March 24th, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    “It seems to me that they do have a fairly coherent plan.”

    Way too many holes in that in”coherent” plan. The good ship Cashman is going down, and unfortunately we are along for the ride.

  114. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:57 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    It is true. The Yanks’ salries are out of line with their own history, and they are out of line with the rest of the league’s payrolls.

    And 3 to 5 percent of an enormous number IS a big deal. It’s only not a big deal on a blog, when we’re talking about somebody else’s money.

    “How is it out of line with their own histories? You may as well argue for reserve clause and salaries to be kicked back to pre-inflation WW2 numbers. The yankee TEAMS have been well in line with their history, that is: being assembled of a large collection of very good players. And truthfully the Yankees have always been at the top or near the top in player payroll.”

    Look at the Yanks’s salries going back to the 1990′s. When have the Yanks ever paid more than 30 percent of the next highest team’s payroll? That didn’t start happening until 2005, or so (I forget).

    “25 million in luxury tax is not a big deal, not for a team that rakes in the cash, has a stadium funded with tax exempt bonds, and numerous side deals that hide revenue from major league baseball, at a time when MLB is raking in billions in profit.”

    —$25 million is about as much as the Yanks cleared in profits in 2012.

    “I bet you thought a billion dollar penalty for ruining the ocean was a steep price for those oil companies.”

    Non sequitur. ut since you ask,

  115. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    “The Yankees spend more money on nothing than Mike Tyson ever could”

    Mike admits he was nuts. Hal?

  116. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    If you actually honestly believe the Yankees had profits of only ~25 million in 2012, I have a bunch of bridges to sell you.

  117. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    luis March 24th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Ghost,

    I have given up on them already…. I simply have no faith in the FO anymore… :(
    =====

    Patience, grasshopper :)

  118. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    The right-hander who will be 33 a week from today, signed a minor league deal worth $3 million if he makes it to the majors. He will open the season at Triple-A Scranton-Wilkes-Barre.

    Wang has an out date in the deal and isn’t in position to collect $100,000 if he isn’t on the Opening Day roster like other players with more than six years of big-league service time who are working on minor league deals.

    Wang gets 3 million if he makes the big leagues.

  119. luis March 24th, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    It seems to me that they do have a fairly coherent plan. The problem is getting from here to there. They are rebuilding a young core of ptichers around which the team will be built (possibly Hughes, Pineda, Nova, Phelps, etc.). They are buying time for the youngsters with the contracts for Pettitte and Kuroda. They seem to have a core of a young outfield (Gardener, Williams, Heathcott, Almonte, etc.) developing, a couple of solid young catching prospects (Romine and Sanchez), and they will fill in the infield with free agent acquisitions (including Cano), as they phase out Teix and ARod. The next couple years are going to be a bit tough, but they should still be competitive.

    ==============================

    If this was the case, I wouldn’t mind at all… The problem I see is this:

    With the signing of Ichiro and now Wells, It is almost impossible for them to retain Cano and Hughes and still make the cap.

    With the signing of both Kuroda and Pettitte, they are basically forcing Phelps to either be the long man ( dumb ) or to send him down to triple A where he has nothing else to learn other than build his innings for 2014. If they do the former, he won’t be able to start in 2014 or they will be risking an injury like it happened with Hughes. By adding Wells, we are probably going to have up to three openings in the rotation ( for me Pineda is still an unknown, so I wouldn’t count on him just yet )

  120. champt March 24th, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    I do not understand all the backlash to this deal.

    Josh Hamilton was way too risky to sign this offseason, Swisher was a good but not great player who was consistent season-to-season but has a career .169 .283 .305 line in the playoffs, and Scott Hairston is a career mediocrity who had his best season last year at age 32.

    Wells is NOT old and is only a year older than Hairston, and although he has been atrocious the past 2 seasons he does have the potential to turn it around and play closer to his career .788 OPS. I think it’s a decent gamble by Cashman. $13 million is way too much to pay for a player in Wells’ situation, but his ceiling is much higher than Boesch, Francisco, Juan Rivera and he will hopefully be an improvement while Grandy and Teixeira are out.

  121. Tar March 24th, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    yeah the way to get past stupid contracts everybody wanted them to sign is to just sign more stupid contracts.
    thats what george did.
    thats why don mattingly never won a playoff series.”

    Oh I get it.

    The real way to do get past stupid contacts, is to make even stupider trades for stupid contacts. Makes sense to me.

  122. MTU March 24th, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    Hal would have been better served IMO by putting that 13 Million Towards guys like Cespedes or Soler. That would have been a substantial downpayment.

    And they only cost money too. And you know what ? They’re young and have tons of upside left.

    ;)

  123. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Vernon Wells is 34 and has been garbage the last 2 years. Thats old and bad.

  124. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    from the yankees persepective the wells contract is not a stupid contract. it actually increases the money they can spend next year and they arent giving up anything of value.

    im not big on wells but to the yankees its not a stupid contract.

  125. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    “With the signing of Ichiro and now Wells, It is almost impossible for them to retain Cano and Hughes and still make the cap.”

    That’s the point. There is either a plan to get under $189m ($170m something) or there isn’t. If there is, then to waste any money on a near 40 year old Ichiro or a has-been like Wells, is just goofy, given what should be the priority of signing important players who could be part of the core going forward.

  126. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    arod is a stupid contract

    and some of us pointed that out before he was signed

  127. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    im not big on wells but to the yankees its not a stupid contract.

    Well theres also the roster spot, and the extra 13.5 million it costs them now to save 2 million in 2014. And of course the benefit only applies if they actually continue with their austerity plan.

  128. FiretheUMPIRE March 24th, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    Now they’ve done it. Vernon Wells is the ivory tusk in the living room of the trailer park trash who won the lottery and squandered it all in 24 months flat.

  129. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    Some commenter on Yahoo said that the Yankees need to pick up guys like Wells because they’re “eye candy” who will bring fans into the building.

    That even trumps some of the comments here.

  130. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    cc’s contract is going to turn out to be a bad contract.

    just because of the opt out which led to the extension.

    the yankees should have known not to play with opt outs…

  131. Mike in Harrisburg March 24th, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    @champt I would reiterate my earlier remarks that it js a pattern of behavior from the front office that is so troublesome. Reacting to situations instead of getting out ahead of them.

  132. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    I think Pineda, the failures of Bumble bees threw a monkey ranch to Yanks plan in 14. I am pretty sure Hal was expecting all 3 in taking substantial roles in 14, instead, to be honest none of them are even remotely a sure thing.

    You could go two way, spend like mofo but also spend wisely or eff spending, trade away all your one year pieces and start full scale rebuild and wait for the legit wave youth to arrive and coincide with the expiration of Rod and Tex’s contract.

    The Yanks are stuck in neutral at this moment of time.

  133. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    “I think Pineda, the failures of Bumble bees threw a monkey ranch to Yanks plan in 14. I am pretty sure Hal was expecting all 3 in taking substantial roles in 14, instead, to be honest none of them are even remotely a sure thing.”

    Relying on pitchers that young isn’t a plan, it’s a hope.

  134. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    i totally dont give a damn about the $13M. they have the money. i dont even agree with the $189M budget target, but if they are really going to get under it, the wells contract is not only not a bad contract, its actually a good contract.

    wells is the problem, not his contract.

    as for the roster spot, i dont see them either leaving someone in the minors who should be in the majors because of this move.

  135. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    uis March 24th, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    It seems to me that they do have a fairly coherent plan. The problem is getting from here to there. They are rebuilding a young core of ptichers around which the team will be built (possibly Hughes, Pineda, Nova, Phelps, etc.). They are buying time for the youngsters with the contracts for Pettitte and Kuroda. They seem to have a core of a young outfield (Gardener, Williams, Heathcott, Almonte, etc.) developing, a couple of solid young catching prospects (Romine and Sanchez), and they will fill in the infield with free agent acquisitions (including Cano), as they phase out Teix and ARod. The next couple years are going to be a bit tough, but they should still be competitive.

    ==============================

    If this was the case, I wouldn’t mind at all… The problem I see is this:

    With the signing of Ichiro and now Wells, It is almost impossible for them to retain Cano and Hughes and still make the cap.

    With the signing of both Kuroda and Pettitte, they are basically forcing Phelps to either be the long man ( dumb ) or to send him down to triple A where he has nothing else to learn other than build his innings for 2014. If they do the former, he won’t be able to start in 2014 or they will be risking an injury like it happened with Hughes. By adding Wells, we are probably going to have up to three openings in the rotation ( for me Pineda is still an unknown, so I wouldn’t count on him just yet )

    ==============

    I think that they’ll find a way to bring back Cano, even if it means not making the threshold. I take Hal at his word on that.

    Phelps will get his chances and his innings in 2013. There are always injuries. (I take a lot of solace in the fact that the Yanks hired Rothschild as a pitching coach.) Kuroda and Pettitte will take the pressure off the youngsters, avoiding a repeat of ill-fated experiment of 2008.

  136. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    “wells is the problem, not his contract.”

    Are they going to spend another chunk of money if Morneau comes free at a cheap player personnel price?

  137. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    Well, let’s see, Melky had a .906 plus OPS last season. Close enough.
    —————

    He was also on steroids…it was 100 points higher than his next highest OPS, 150 points higher than his career average.

  138. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    cc’s contract is going to turn out to be a bad contract.
    —–
    Ys, if your contention is that long term contracts for huge dollars carries significant risks, i tend to agree.

    What’s your plan? trade CC? because so far CC happens to be worth every pennies of the Yankee FA dollars. Are you suggesting trading CC or just mere acceptance that Yanks will be lumped with another bad contract in a few years?

  139. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    i wouldn’t be against bringing in morneau under the same circumstances but from what i hear the twins want prospects instead of money and i wouldnt go there.

  140. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    Here’s the problem. Hal has no feel for the game. Neither does Cashman. But because Hal is clueless, he has no way to identify Cashman’s flaws.

    That probably means Cashman has the job for life, unless the Steins sell.

    The only hope is that the better prospects somehow survive and make it to their ETAs.

  141. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:12 pm

    “wells is the problem, not his contract.”

    Are they going to spend another chunk of money if Morneau comes free at a cheap player personnel price?
    ——————

    Depends on how Tex’s wrist looks in 8 weeks. If it looks like he’s going to need the surgery after all and miss the season and whomever they’ve brought in to play 1b isn’t cutting it – then yeah they probably will. Especially since the WBC would, at that point, recoup the Yankees for Tex’s entire salary for the season.

  142. luis March 24th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    Cashmoney,

    That’s what i have been saying for months… Cut the BS and start a rebuilding now… The sooner it starts the sooner it will be over

  143. blake March 24th, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    Have they announced who they traded for him yet

  144. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    i love cc but i just think the back end of that contract is gonna be bad. he’s been worth every penny but there are a lot of pennies at an advanced age to come.

    they should have signed him w/o the opt out or gone somewhere else, imo

    and im a big cc fan.

  145. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    and if the yankees are out of it at the asb, cc’s contract would be the first one i’d want to move.

  146. jacksquat March 24th, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    If Wells actually reduces team payroll for luxury tax purposes in 2014, then whatever, it’s their money.

    I just hope Wells doesn’t hit .230 this year and they try to pass him off to us as the LF next year because he’s Vernon Wells. It seems they like signing “big names” for “cheap” like Ichiro and Wells, to placate the casual fans.

  147. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    He was also on steroids…it was 100 points higher than his next highest OPS, 150 points higher than his career average.
    ///

    No, he’s only 28 and was developing all along. You just failed to see it.

  148. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    “i wouldn’t be against bringing in morneau under the same circumstances but from what i hear the twins want prospects instead of money and i wouldnt go there.”

    The point is will they still be willing to spend if the price comes down?

    Or willing to spend money if a similar player comes free?

    This is money not worth spending based on four of the last six years of atrocious offense.

  149. 4 NYY March 24th, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    “if they actually continue with their austerity plan”

    =====================

    JF, you have doubts of that at this point ?

  150. pkyankfan69 March 24th, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:08 pm
    cc’s contract is going to turn out to be a bad contract.
    —————————————-
    Ridiculous… CC will likely go downhill from here but the 4 excellent years already from him were worth what is to come. Pitchers especially are not worth their entire contract but that is just something you have to live with when you sign top starting pitchers… Arod and Tex are clearly worse deals, not even close.

  151. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    JS, I think Wells may have value as part time RH power hitter against LH pitching. The obvious thing is Yanks could have spent that money elsewhere and probably for a more productive player.

  152. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    No one is fooled by their shenanigans, and if they think fans are jumping on the 4 train because of guys like Vernon Wells, they are in for a big disappointment.

    Maybe an Ichiro hits chase brings people to the park, but no one is going to shell out to watch Vernon Wells.

  153. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    “With the signing of Ichiro and now Wells, It is almost impossible for them to retain Cano and Hughes and still make the cap.”

    That’s the point. There is either a plan to get under $189m ($170m something) or there isn’t. If there is, then to waste any money on a near 40 year old Ichiro or a has-been like Wells, is just goofy, given what should be the priority of signing important players who could be part of the core going forward
    ——————-

    No it’s not. As we learned, the Yankees can backload the money that they get from the Angels so that it applies to next years “cap” rather than this year’s payroll.

    Having said that – I think what will be more likely to keep the Yankees from retaining Hughes and Cano is Hughes and Cano.

    Phil’s 27, can’t stay healthy and will likely want a 4 or 5 year deal
    Cano is going to be 31 this season and likely looking for 8 to 10 years

    I wouldn’t give either player that kind of commitment.

  154. pkyankfan69 March 24th, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:17 pm
    and if the yankees are out of it at the asb, cc’s contract would be the first one i’d want to move.
    —————————————–
    You would rather move CC’s contract than Arod or Tex’s contract????

    LOL… I thought Cashman was bad.

  155. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    “Depends on how Tex’s wrist looks in 8 weeks. If it looks like he’s going to need the surgery after all and miss the season and whomever they’ve brought in to play 1b isn’t cutting it – then yeah they probably will. Especially since the WBC would, at that point, recoup the Yankees for Tex’s entire salary for the season.”

    It doesn’t look like 8 weeks based on what I have read. But dollars are fungible. $13m plus whatever million on whatever other player they trade for is money that could be saved and used to offset savings not taken in the form of luxury tax savings or rebates.

  156. luis March 24th, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    I think that they’ll find a way to bring back Cano, even if it means not making the threshold. I take Hal at his word on that.

    Phelps will get his chances and his innings in 2013. There are always injuries. (I take a lot of solace in the fact that the Yanks hired Rothschild as a pitching coach.) Kuroda and Pettitte will take the pressure off the youngsters, avoiding a repeat of ill-fated experiment of 2008.

    ======================================

    Then Ghost, they have no plan…. Because if they are not going to meet the cap, why get this past their prime vets on one year deals? … They have no clue, that’s the problem… Even though, I hope I am wrong ;)

    FTR: I wanted to bring one of Pettitte or Kuroda, but not both…I wanted that spot for Phelps… Let him prove he belongs, that way 2014′s rotation would look more certain

  157. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    JF, you have doubts of that at this point ?

    No, but I’m open to the possibility that they throw that plan in the garbage once they see how bad the team is projecting in 2014.

  158. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    No it’s not. As we learned, the Yankees can backload the money that they get from the Angels so that it applies to next years “cap” rather than this year’s payroll.

    Having said that – I think what will be more likely to keep the Yankees from retaining Hughes and Cano is Hughes and Cano.

    Phil’s 27, can’t stay healthy and will likely want a 4 or 5 year deal
    Cano is going to be 31 this season and likely looking for 8 to 10 years

    I wouldn’t give either player that kind of commitment.
    __

    The point, as I just mentioned is dollar savings and the ability to develop players who could save money in the future by being cost-controlled.

  159. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    i love cc but i just think the back end of that contract is gonna be bad. he’s been worth every penny but there are a lot of pennies at an advanced age to come.

    they should have signed him w/o the opt out or gone somewhere else, imo

    and im a big cc fan.
    ======

    I agree that the back end of CC’s contract could look ugly. However, I’m okay with it, because of what we’re getting in the here and now from him. Those opt-out clauses are a real killer, forcing most of the risk onto the other party.

  160. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    He was also on steroids…it was 100 points higher than his next highest OPS, 150 points higher than his career average.
    ///

    No, he’s only 28 and was developing all along. You just failed to see it.
    ————————-

    His season by season OPS prior to his season in San Francisco
    752
    718
    641
    752
    671
    809

    that’s not development.

    His 900 OPS is called development through better chemistry.

  161. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    Phil’s 27, can’t stay healthy and will likely want a 4 or 5 year deal
    Cano is going to be 31 this season and likely looking for 8 to 10 years

    I wouldn’t give either player that kind of commitment.
    —–
    Rich’s point aside, I agree with this.

  162. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    no.

    there’s just no way you’re moving arod’s contract by the trade deadline this year and just a slight miniscule more possibility of moving tex’s, so i dismissed that idea from the start.

  163. luis March 24th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    Worse Ghost… they got this past their prime guys for TWO years!!

  164. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    I wouldn’t give Cano 8-10 yearas, but I would trade him now.

  165. Ys Guy March 24th, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    agree on cano and i was in favor of trading him this whole offseason.

  166. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    No it’s not. As we learned, the Yankees can backload the money that they get from the Angels so that it applies to next years “cap” rather than this year’s payroll.

    Having said that – I think what will be more likely to keep the Yankees from retaining Hughes and Cano is Hughes and Cano.

    Phil’s 27, can’t stay healthy and will likely want a 4 or 5 year deal
    Cano is going to be 31 this season and likely looking for 8 to 10 years

    I wouldn’t give either player that kind of commitment.
    __

    The point, as I just mentioned is dollar savings and the ability to develop players who could save money in the future by being cost-controlled.
    —————

    I don’t disagree – the Yankees have done a poor job developing players and an even poorer job of identifying and separating good players from chaffe.

    That said, even if the Yankees decided tomorrow to boot the $189 plan I still wouldn’t want to give Hughes or Cano the kind of deals they’re likely to command.

  167. pkyankfan69 March 24th, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Sorry that I am not a mind reader… Tex has a no trade and loves the NY area for his fam… He is not going anywhere either.

  168. champt March 24th, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    @Mike in Harrisburg I agree this is a reactive situation, but when half your lineup is opening the season on the DL, what else is there to do?

    I don’t think the money is particularly well spent, but it’s a decent gamble. And although Wells profiles as a 4th OF, he will get plenty of ABs with the Yankees old or injury-prone outfield the next two seasons.

    When players have 1-2 bad seasons in their early 30s, it doesn’t mean they are finished. Look at Mike Lowell’s last year with the Marlins, Paul Konerko’s 2008 or Adam Dunn’s 2011. Even Wells’ old teammate, Alex Rios, has gone from all-star to waste of a roster spot back to success.

  169. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Chip

    Again, that’s reasonable. The key then is to get value for those players, and not just picks.

  170. blake March 24th, 2013 at 10:28 pm

    @HardballTalk: Cole Hamels, Matt Kemp to grace Big League Chew packaging http://t.co/zDeRE8BaDz #mlb #hbt

    Grape big league chew is the best thing ever

  171. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    Then Ghost, they have no plan…. Because if they are not going to meet the cap, why get this past their prime vets on one year deals? … They have no clue, that’s the problem… Even though, I hope I am wrong ;)

    ===============

    I disagree. The threshold isn’t an end in itself. However, I’m sure that the cost savings are very attractive to the FO. They’re taking the short-term deals on vets to avoid making long term commitments that will block roster spots for the youngsters.

    If Cano isn’t back next year, it’ll be because he was asking for an 8-to-10-year deal. It won’t be because of the cap.

  172. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    I wouldn’t give Cano 8-10 yearas, but I would trade him now.
    —————–

    Absolutely – but this speaks to the larger problem that the Yankees have right now – which is that the heads of their baseball operations have never operated under financial constraints before, and are unwilling to accept certain realities. Namely that if you can’t afford to keep a player then your best use of that player is to move him for controllable assets.

    But the Yankees are an organization that has never dealt away a player like this in his prime and won’t now because of the PR aspect of it.

  173. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:30 pm

    I never understood the lure of chewing tobacco, as a kid I attempt to chew it once… it was vile, I think i mentally block out the taste, sickly sweet licorice something something…

  174. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    Chip,

    You don’t understand certain things. Like hitting. That’s why you say things like a guy who hits over .300 from both sides of the plate for two years running who is still in his prime is really a fourth outfielder.

  175. Mike in Harrisburg March 24th, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    @champt Frankly I agree with you that taken alone this is not as horrible a move as some are making out. But the problem for me is the same money would have gotten you a lot more in terms of value and flexibility if they had spent it on guys like Scott Hairston or Jeff Keppinger a few months ago. Or heck, even re-signing Chavez.

  176. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    Geeze, I go out for the day and all hell breaks loose!

    And the Yankees win another one. With 7 runs. Hmmm. I’m starting to think this club can and will hit, contrary to some of what I read here. And of course that will be a good thing!

    I am so happy for Nunez. Funny how this stuff works out. Whether he still believed in it or really meant it when he said it, Girardi always said that Nunez was being groomed for Jeter’s position. Well what better way to prepare for it than to be in it! He seems like such a good guy.

    I hope Gardner ends up leading off permanently. I just think it makes so much sense.

    About Vernon Wells. Throughout the years there have only been two players who have put fear into me when they were at the plate. Just two. One was Jim Thome and the other was Vernon Wells. In fact I used to fantasize about the Yankees getting Vernon Wells. In his heyday he was definitely the whole package.

    Don’t get me wrong, I am big on planning on the best actually happening. Unless and until Vernon Wells shows that he has nothing left and shows it in pinstripes, I am going to assume he’ll be able to help out in a major way – though it seems to me that the outfield is a little crowded now.

    There was something about the Boss that used to kind of drive me crazy – and yes, just one thing. He would set his sites on a player and then he would move heaven an earth to get the player. But it always seemed that by the time he was able to wrestle the player away from the other team, the player’s best days were pretty much behind him. I know the Yanks aren’t getting Vernon Wells the same way, meaning they apparently know they didn’t trade for the Wells who was the everyday titan – at least I hope they know that.

  177. luis March 24th, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    Rich and Chip,

    Good luck with that ;) They won’t trade Cano… They are going to let him walk ” after trying very hard to keep him” and we will get a pick…. The time to trade Cano was last winter after not getting a team friendly extension… I would not give another 8 year contract to Cano either

  178. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    Chip

    The Yankees have also almost always spent away mistakes. If those days are over, even temporarily, then not dealing away a player in their prime for PR reasons (and not re-siging him) is going to make it even harder to do the “win the WS every single year” thing Hal claims to love.

    Something has to give.

  179. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 10:35 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    If you actually honestly believe the Yankees had profits of only ~25 million in 2012, I have a bunch of bridges to sell you.

    ======

    Then how much were they? And give me the source for this estimate.

  180. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    Cash

    I saw some guys on some show called “Shark Tank” on ABC that were pitching this as a substitute:

    http://www.getgrinds.com/product.html

  181. J. Alfred Prufrock March 24th, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    I doubt they let Cano walk, although I take nothing for granted, as these are some of the dumbest people to ever have control of the New York Yankees’ fortunes.

    They’re going to re-sign him.

  182. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    Rich,

    I agree – I was an advocate of trading Granderson, Hughes and Cano this winter for long term assets. Now they will get three draft picks that they had better not miss on.

    Consider this:

    The only players currently under contract for 2015 are CC, Tex, Nova and Alex.

    We’re hoping that Austin, Sanchez, Williams, Banuelos, Heathcott, Ramirez and others will be ready to contribute by or before then, but we all know that not all of those guys are going to make it. Trading those three impending free agents could have loaded the team up with young major league or nearly major league ready talent who could be in place when/if those prospects fail.

    Now the Yankees will get three draft picks that will at best be ready to contribute 4 years from the time they’re drafted.

  183. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    If they are willing to spend $13m on Wells, Boras really can’t make an unreasonable request on Cano’s behalf.

  184. Baby Ruth March 24th, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    Looks like Lyle Overbay has an out clause in his contract that can be triggered this coming Tuesday.

    Yanks apparently interested as a platoon with Rivera.

    This just keeps getting better and better. :lol:

  185. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:39 pm

    Rich, that reads interesting… I guess it’s kind of like Red Bull on chew. In any case, worth a try. I don’t know shark tank is, but if it involves me being in a tank with shark, I be chewing on the metal box thru to the chew.

  186. bruceb March 24th, 2013 at 10:40 pm

    Would rather have seen them go with what they’ve got than make another “desperation” dumpster dive for Wells…and a fairly expensive one at that. It seems most of my fellow LoHudders feel the same way. Who wants to see another aged cast-off donning the famous pinstripes?

  187. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    Chip

    The Yankees have also almost always spent away mistakes. If those days are over, even temporarily, then not dealing away a player in their prime for PR reasons (and not re-siging him) is going to make it even harder to do the “win the WS every single year” thing Hal claims to love.

    Something has to give.
    ——————

    Yeah well the big thing is that Brian has for years talked about developing a farm system but hasn’t done it. He hasn’t been willing to spend on good young international players in a major way or in the draft and his development team (Eppler, Newman, Oppenheimer, Contreras) has been horrible at both identifying talent in the organization and developing that talent.

    I said it earlier, the Yankees used to be great at self scouting – pumping up an average player (Rickey Ledee) and then trading him while still holding onto good prospects. Sure they made mistakes (Drew Henson over Mike Lowell) but they were fewer and farther between than they’ve been under this regime.

  188. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    Cash

    I was at a friend’s house and they were watching it. Mark Cuban and some other successful entrepreneurs are pitched on nascent products by would-be entrepreneurship, offering some level of partnership for seed money.

    These guys stuck out because their product seemed like something I would try if I was still playing ball.

  189. luis March 24th, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:37 pm
    Rich,

    I agree – I was an advocate of trading Granderson, Hughes and Cano this winter for long term assets. Now they will get three draft picks that they had better not miss on.

    Consider this:

    The only players currently under contract for 2015 are CC, Tex, Nova and Alex.

    We’re hoping that Austin, Sanchez, Williams, Banuelos, Heathcott, Ramirez and others will be ready to contribute by or before then, but we all know that not all of those guys are going to make it. Trading those three impending free agents could have loaded the team up with young major league or nearly major league ready talent who could be in place when/if those prospects fail.

    Now the Yankees will get three draft picks that will at best be ready to contribute 4 years from the time they’re drafted.

    ==============================

    This is very sound if you were going on in to a full fledged rebuild….

  190. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:46 pm

    These guys stuck out because their product seemed like something I would try if I was still playing ball.
    =======
    That is a product i would try. I normally just order just 15 cups of green tea at the table. But it’s not bad product idea, I would go ahead order 3 mocha. I used to drink a lot red bull unfortunately now it puts me to sleep.

  191. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:46 pm

    I said it earlier, given the injuries on the team the Yankees really need to protect Youkilis. He, Cano and Hafner represent the only reliable power sources in the lineup.

    To that end, they should move Youk to 1b where he’s less likely to get hurt than at 3b.

  192. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    “I doubt they let Cano walk, although I take nothing for granted, as these are some of the dumbest people to ever have control of the New York Yankees’ fortunes.

    They’re going to re-sign him.”

    J Al – not a question in the world that you got this right. I don’t think you have to be a great tea-leaf reader to figure that one out either! I have no idea what the terms will be, nor do I particularly care. Just keep Robby. Period. And they will.

    :)

  193. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    Then how much were they? And give me the source for this estimate.

    Gate receipts for the Yankees are 300+ million according to forbes. YES network’s revenues are 400+ million according to Forbes. The Yankees own Legends Hospitality which has 25 million dollars in profit by itself according to Forbes. These numbers do not even include the MLBAM money, MLB international TV deal, MLB national TV deal, merchandise, and whatever money is brought in by using the stadium as a soccer field and a jay z concert. We know that their debt payments on their stadium is 64 million per year and their player payroll is ~220 million per year and their luxury tax is 25 million per year and that they pay no rent on their stadium. The 64 million is from tax exempt bonds so the Yankees are not paying a bunch of state tax to NY and can use that amount to reduce their revenue sharing burden.

    They rich.

  194. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    luis March 24th, 2013 at 10:43 pm

    Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:37 pm
    Rich,

    I agree – I was an advocate of trading Granderson, Hughes and Cano this winter for long term assets. Now they will get three draft picks that they had better not miss on.

    Consider this:

    The only players currently under contract for 2015 are CC, Tex, Nova and Alex.

    We’re hoping that Austin, Sanchez, Williams, Banuelos, Heathcott, Ramirez and others will be ready to contribute by or before then, but we all know that not all of those guys are going to make it. Trading those three impending free agents could have loaded the team up with young major league or nearly major league ready talent who could be in place when/if those prospects fail.

    Now the Yankees will get three draft picks that will at best be ready to contribute 4 years from the time they’re drafted.

    ==============================

    This is very sound if you were going on in to a full fledged rebuild….
    —————–

    Luis,

    Yeah, it would hopefully minimize the rebuilding time by increasing the talent pool in the organization.

    It’s especially important when you consider how thin the free agent markets are.

    Though I would be fine using the $25 mil the team would likely have to spend on Cano next year to sign McCann and Zobrist.

  195. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    We also know from leaked financials that teams which are claiming losses are actually making near 100 million in profit, like the pirates, marlins, and astros.

  196. Baby Ruth March 24th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    I said it earlier, given the injuries on the team the Yankees really need to protect Youkilis. He, Cano and Hafner represent the only reliable power sources in the lineup.

    ———–

    Comforting thought …………especially Hafner, if he stay out of the hospital.

  197. Yankee Trader March 24th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    You will enjoy this.
    “The Yankee front office has gone mad”

    http://nomaas.org/2013/03/the-.....-gone-mad/

  198. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    Hafner staying healthy is a huge if, while no one is as brittle as ole Nick Johnson, Hafner has been close to it in recent years. However, there is little doubt in my mind, if he is healthy he will very productive as hitter for not only power but also at a decent average.

  199. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    Then how much were they? And give me the source for this estimate.

    Gate receipts for the Yankees are 300+ million according to forbes. YES network’s revenues are 400+ million according to Forbes. The Yankees own Legends Hospitality which has 25 million dollars in profit by itself according to Forbes. These numbers do not even include the MLBAM money, MLB international TV deal, MLB national TV deal, merchandise, and whatever money is brought in by using the stadium as a soccer field and a jay z concert. We know that their debt payments on their stadium is 64 million per year and their player payroll is ~220 million per year and their luxury tax is 25 million per year and that they pay no rent on their stadium. The 64 million is from tax exempt bonds so the Yankees are not paying a bunch of state tax to NY and can use that amount to reduce their revenue sharing burden.
    ================================

    None of this actually answered my question. What were the Yanks’ profits in 2012? BTW, did this Forbes article happen to say what the the Yankees’ profits were in 2012?

  200. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 10:58 pm

    Totally preparing myself for the team signing Yuniesky Betencourt.

  201. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:59 pm

    Bentencourt will make Nunez look like Ozzie Smith, if yanks were contemplating a back up option other than Nix then Ronny Cedeno would have been the scrape heap choice.

  202. Baby Ruth March 24th, 2013 at 11:00 pm

    Any SP injuries this year and this team finishes sub .500

  203. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 11:00 pm

    Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    Hafner staying healthy is a huge if, while no one is as brittle as ole Nick Johnson, Hafner has been close to it in recent years. However, there is little doubt in my mind, if he is healthy he will very productive as hitter for not only power but also at a decent average.
    ————

    I agree with both points.

    If he stays healthy Hafner could easily hit .250 with 35 HRs and a .350 OBP. But the odds on Hafner staying healthy are long (though the team had fairly good luck protecting an equally brittle Eric Chavez the last couple of years)

    This is why I go back to it being vital to protect the health of Youkilis and the best way to do that is to move him to 1st.

  204. Baby Ruth March 24th, 2013 at 11:02 pm

    ‘Totally preparing myself for the team signing Yuniesky Betencourt’

    ==========

    Certainly fits the recent ‘MO’ of dumpster diving. Why not ?

    Then Musty will be in AAA for sure.

  205. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 11:02 pm

    “Would rather have seen them go with what they’ve got than make another “desperation” dumpster dive for Wells…and a fairly expensive one at that. It seems most of my fellow LoHudders feel the same way. Who wants to see another aged cast-off donning the famous pinstripes?”

    bruceb – but here’s the reality, and the beauty of knowing and accepting the reality! It doesn’t matter an iota of a whit what lohudders think! It’s a done deal. So now you hope that good comes out of it. As I remember, there was major wailing an gnashing of lohud teeth over the signing of Raul Ibanez. And how did that work out?

    ;)

    I won’t say I’m not surprised by it or that I totally understand it. But the Yankees sent me a memo telling me that they were quite comfortable making decisions wheter or not I understood So welcome Vernon Wells!!! I think you’re going to love it here and I believe you’re going to help the Yankees to another successful season.

    :)

  206. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 11:02 pm

    Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    Hafner staying healthy is a huge if, while no one is as brittle as ole Nick Johnson, Hafner has been close to it in recent years. However, there is little doubt in my mind, if he is healthy he will very productive as hitter for not only power but also at a decent average.
    ——–

    I’ll be happy if he makes it to July, when ARod comes back. I don’t think that it’s unreasonable to hope for Youk to have a resurgence, or Ichiro, or Haffner, or even Wells. But it is wildly optimistic to expect them ALL to have resurgences this year. (For the record, I think Youk and Ichiro are going to have very solid years for us. I’m much less sanguine about Haffner.

  207. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:03 pm

    None of this actually answered my question. What were the Yanks’ profits in 2012? BTW, did this Forbes article happen to say what the the Yankees’ profits were in 2012?

    Well no one can see MLB’s books, or else all the crying poor would be laughed. They want to hide how rich they are. I find it rich that you think they could be that poor! The leaked financials for clubs that make far less money than the Yankees show very profitable businesses. Much more than 25 million in profit. IF you think the Yankees are worse run than the Astros, Marlins, or Pirates, then whatever.

  208. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:03 pm

    None of this actually answered my question. What were the Yanks’ profits in 2012? BTW, did this Forbes article happen to say what the the Yankees’ profits were in 2012?

    Well no one can see MLB’s books, or else all the crying poor would be laughed. They want to hide how rich they are. I find it rich that you think they could be that poor! The leaked financials for clubs that make far less money than the Yankees show very profitable businesses. Much more than 25 million in profit. IF you think the Yankees are worse run than the Astros, Marlins, or Pirates, then whatever.
    ==============

    Sooo… you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. ‘Kay. Thanks.

  209. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    I am hoping, Chip; I have always like Hafner’s bat. He was very good hitter , almost elite, for a year or two. At this point, I think he has something left in his tank, I would not be surprised if he hits over 25 homeruns if he is healthy and comes in at about an 260 average or better.

  210. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    Here is an article talking about the profitability of the astros:

    http://www.baseballprospectus......leid=19605

    “Depending on what you read, clubs in Major League Baseball are either making a massive profit, breaking even, or, if you listen to the owners, often running in the red. Since baseball is a private industry, trying to determine the truth is a matter of educated guessing, wild hyperbole, or a case of “no comment” coming from the league and clubs.”

    “The next chapter in this ongoing conversation comes via the Houston Astros and their owner, Jim Crane. Brian T. Smith of the Houston Chronicle tweeted on Saturday that Crane said, “As a franchise, [the] Houston Astros have lost money the last five seasons.”

    *Maury includes a bunch of stuff that is clearly left out of the equation*

    “Now the picture becomes quite different. That $17,782,954 loss has become a $60,593,732 profit.”

  211. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    Sooo… you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. ‘Kay. Thanks.

    I know more about it than you apparently!

  212. jacksquat March 24th, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    Jeff PassanVerified account
    ?@JeffPassan
    Yankees official: “I just wonder where this money was in December.” So do a lot of others.

    High chance Cashman said this, since he is the one that is the point man for spending money. Not having money to spend would also explain a lot of other non moves this offseason, and him being “locked in his room” the last couple days of the Winter Meetings (in December).

  213. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:10 pm

    Sooo… you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. ‘Kay. Thanks.

    I know more about it than you apparently!
    ======

    If so, you have yet to demonstrate it.

  214. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    whatever the Yankees made or lost is irrelevant. The Yankees want to get under a threshold that would save them a whole butt-ton of money in luxury taxes. I don’t begrudge them that.

    Where I have a problem is that while they want to come back to the pack in expenses they have no such desire when it comes to ticket prices or ancillary costs of going to the games.

    Of course, I’ve remedied that by going to fewer games and just using the savings to buy a nice television that I can watch all the games on without having to deal with the drunken jerks or thugs that have made going to games kinda suck.

  215. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    Here is an article talking about the profitability of the astros:

    http://www.baseballprospectus……leid=19605

    “Depending on what you read, clubs in Major League Baseball are either making a massive profit, breaking even, or, if you listen to the owners, often running in the red. Since baseball is a private industry, trying to determine the truth is a matter of educated guessing, wild hyperbole, or a case of “no comment” coming from the league and clubs.”

    “The next chapter in this ongoing conversation comes via the Houston Astros and their owner, Jim Crane. Brian T. Smith of the Houston Chronicle tweeted on Saturday that Crane said, “As a franchise, [the] Houston Astros have lost money the last five seasons.”

    *Maury includes a bunch of stuff that is clearly left out of the equation*

    “Now the picture becomes quite different. That $17,782,954 loss has become a $60,593,732 profit.”
    ==============

    Do you have an article about–you know—the Yankees’ profits? Because the Astros aren’t the Yankees.

  216. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    If so, you have yet to demonstrate it.

    So you ignored all the numbers I gave you? Your 25 million is just as in doubt, and does not include YES or any of their other ventures.

  217. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    Do you have an article about–you know—the Yankees’ profits? Because the Astros aren’t the Yankees.

    Do you think the Yankees make less money than the astros?

  218. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 11:14 pm

    Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    I am hoping, Chip; I have always like Hafner’s bat. He was very good hitter , almost elite, for a year or two. At this point, I think he has something left in his tank, I would not be surprised if he hits over 25 homeruns if he is healthy and comes in at about an 260 average or better.
    —————–

    If he’s able to stay healthy he is an amazing signing and a huge improvement over Ibanez last year.

    Granderson will be back and he’ll get his 35 – 40 HRs (and sparkling .230 BA) but I will be legitimately surprised if Tex or Alex play this season.

    3 guys the Yankees could go after 8 weeks from now if Tex’s injury hasn’t healed and he has to go under the knife:

    Garrett Jones
    Justin Morneau
    Adam Dunn

  219. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 11:15 pm

    Oy vey! Back to the Yankees finances, as if it’s TRULY any fan’s business what they do with their money.

    Also Ghost, you might want to query about the Yankee debt too, though you’ll find a lot of poo-poohing of that, as if debt doesn’t exist. Of course, no fan is privvy to the Yankees books so no matter how much ballyhooing you hear, the ones who know the real story are not posting on lohud.

    G’night all. Nice chatting with y’all…

  220. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 11:16 pm

    As for who they could go after right now:

    Travis Snider
    Carlos Pena
    Brett Wallace

    are probably the best of what is available at 1b right now.

  221. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 11:16 pm

    “So you ignored all the numbers I gave you? Your 25 million is just as in doubt, and does not include YES or any of their other ventures.”

    Or accrual of equity.

  222. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:18 pm

    With baseball teams, unless you get leaked financials, you will not have the whole picture. And considering the Yankees have broken up their revenue into discrete holdings you’d have to get multiple financials to get the entire picture.

    This forbes article has some individual numbers, which I referenced in my above post: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ku.....ble-teams/

    And this article does not include other things like the MLB money I mentioned.

  223. Cashmoney March 24th, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    I would not mind any of those 3 to be on this team in the absence of Tex. The question always comes around to what you have to give up.

    Time to mash some baseball on MLB the show before hitting sac. Good night all.

  224. jacksquat March 24th, 2013 at 11:20 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 11:02 pm
    As I remember, there was major wailing an gnashing of lohud teeth over the signing of Raul Ibanez. And how did that work out?

    Not so good, aside from a few miraculous game late in the year. He hit .240 with a .308 obp and he’s not a good defender. It was worked out pretty much as we (not you) thought it would.

    trisha – true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 11:15 pm
    Oy vey! Back to the Yankees finances, as if it’s TRULY any fan’s business what they do with their money.

    Without fans they make $0.

  225. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 11:21 pm

    Just want to add -

    Wells has enjoyed a nice spring with the Angels, batting .361 (13-for-36) with four homers and 11 RBIs, and several Yankees seemed excited about the prospect of his addition.

    Not so bad.

  226. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:22 pm

    Who wants to cheer for the rich to get richer?

  227. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:24 pm

    The Yankees debt is going to be tied up in their stadium, which know the terms of. They pay no rent and make debt payments of 64 million which are tax exempt bonds that reduce their NY tax burden AND their revenue sharing burden (double bonus!). Steinbrenner bought the team ages ago. This isn’t some new ownership working off millions in loans.

  228. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 11:26 pm

    jacksquat – yes I knew I left myself open to the “without the fans” stuff. However, the Yankees have delivered 17 out of 18 postseasons in a row. They own nobody anything IMO.

    And about Ibanez. Anyone with a whit of integrity, along with eyes, will readily admit how important Ibanez ended up being to the team. If you want to pretend he wasn’t, that’s on you.

    And “we” leaves you pretty much out there swinging with maybe one other holdout, if that, because I remember many mea culpas and lots of admiration for Raul on this forum.

  229. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 11:26 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:22 pm

    Who wants to cheer for the rich to get richer?
    —————–

    You want to voice your displeasure there’s only one way to do it. Buy a TV and not a ticket.

    If Hal is in his box in August and September and sees lots of empty seats and no October baseball I think $189 goes out the window.

    Of course that might lead to a lot of Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps type deals involving guys like Austin, Williams, Heathcott, Sanchez and the like…but that’s the risk you take.

  230. Pat M. March 24th, 2013 at 11:27 pm

    Does Doc Joe post here anymore ???? UCLA fires Ben Howland, Bruins in Ruins ???? Hi Trica.

  231. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 11:28 pm

    Then empty seats are the new black.

  232. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 11:28 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    If so, you have yet to demonstrate it.

    So you ignored all the numbers I gave you? Your 25 million is just as in doubt, and does not include YES or any of their other ventures.
    =========

    Not one of those numbers are profits, and you know it. The Forbes article that you cited had the Yanks’ operating income at $10 million in 2012. Now, I don’t think that sounds right. But the fact remains that neither one of knows what their profits are. The difference between us is that I’m not pretending that I know something I don’t. I couldn’t believe that you actually told me that the 3 to 5 percent of their revenues is not big deal! Of course it is! How much do you think they clear in profits in a year? “They rich” doesn’t even begin to answer that question.

  233. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    You want to voice your displeasure there’s only one way to do it. Buy a TV and not a ticket.

    Well I already own a TV :) I generally go to Yankee games a few times a year, and sometimes buy tickets from the yankees. This year i’m only buying em off stubhub and will catch the rest in tampa.

  234. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    How much do you think they clear in profits in a year? “They rich” doesn’t even begin to answer that question.

    Much more than 25 million. 100 mil easy.

  235. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    Thats WITH the luxury tax.

  236. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 11:31 pm

    I meant to say: “The Forbes article that you cited had the Yanks’ operating income at $26 million in 2012.”

    I confused 2011 with 2012. My apologies.

  237. Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:30 pm

    How much do you think they clear in profits in a year? “They rich” doesn’t even begin to answer that question.

    Much more than 25 million. 100 mil easy.
    =============

    So 25 percent of their yearly income is “not a big deal”. ‘Kay. Thanks.

  238. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    Hey Pat M! Really looking forward to this season! It’s going to be exciting to see what the Yanks have to offer!

    :)

  239. Pat M. March 24th, 2013 at 11:38 pm

    Tricia…..I’ll be seeing the Yanks in Anahiem, LA’s Dodger Stadium, San Diego’s Petco, Oakland and maybe Seattle. I’ll be at The Stadium May 17th and it’ll be the only time I see them in Pinstripes. Maybe Vernon does the Strawbarry or Fielder trick and contributes along side Hafner. Much has to go right in the Bronx in 2013 otherwise The Stadium will be dark come October. And all that dough Hal wanted to save, well it’ll be matched by the loss income of no postseason

  240. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 11:41 pm

    I’ve said this before:

    I would relieve Levine, Cashman, Eppler, Newman and Oppenheimer (Contreras is a given) of their duties. Then I would go one of two ways:

    1. Offer Stick Michael the job of Team President. At his age I don’t know if he would still want it but I hope he does.

    2. If he says no, my number two choice would be Andrew Friedman – but I doubt Tampa lets him out of his contract to go to the Yankees. Failing him, go out and get someone smart who can come in, with fresh eyes to evaluate all aspects of baseball operations without prejudice of having been around these players and personnel for years.

  241. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 11:44 pm

    Chip

    Yeah, Feldman is the guy, but there must be some connected people in MLB who have pretty good idea who the next Feldman is likely to be. So it would be smart to target him or here.

  242. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 11:44 pm

    Pat M – they’re not going to let it go bad. So there will be October baseball.

    It’s not going to happen (that they won’t make the postseason), but they survived 2008. The Yanks are not in danger of folding their tents!

    Believe! The players do. I do. I know Doreen does. And tomingeorgia. And Ys Guy. And Chip. Stay on board. It will be a sweet ride.

    :)

  243. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 11:47 pm

    Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 11:44 pm

    Chip

    Yeah, Feldman is the guy, but there must be some connected people in MLB who have pretty good idea who the next Feldman is likely to be. So it would be smart to target him or here.
    ——————

    Yeah, my great fear though is Cashman leaving and Levine staying.

    If Levine is running the show (which he would be since the owner is not hands on) he would appoint a puppet GM and start making all the moves without someone checking him. We would become the Boston Red Sox.

  244. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 11:49 pm

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/y.....17823.html

    For the Yankees, it was stunning. The steadiest franchise panicked after injuries dismantled its everyday lineup. The team that built itself on plate discipline traded for a 34-year-old outfielder who over the last two years hit .222, couldn’t get on base even 26 percent of the time and, if that weren’t bad enough, looks fit for Madame Tussauds in the outfield. And the offseason of Scrooge yielded to the spring of perhaps $7 million a year for Vernon Wells, who will fill in for a month or so until Curtis Granderson’s return, and then … well, the Yankees seem to be thinking for tomorrow only, so who knows.

    “I just wonder where this money was in December,” one Yankees official said.

  245. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 11:49 pm

    Trisha –

    Darn right! If you jump off now when things don’t look good then you’re not allowed to jump back on when they get rosy.

  246. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 11:50 pm

    Chip

    Obviously, I could be wrong, and although I am no fan of Levine’s, but I doubt he wants to look stupid, and they way they have been run lately, that’s how they look.

  247. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 11:51 pm

    Rich –

    The answer to “where this money was” is that the Yankees are getting at least $7 mil from the WBC. As long as Tex is out the WBC pays his salary.

    That’s why I don’t think money will be an issue if the Yankees decide to go after Morneau. The only reason they would go after Justin is if Tex is out for the year, if Tex is out for the year then the Yankees aren’t paying his salary, the WBC is.

  248. Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    So 25 percent of their yearly income is “not a big deal”. ‘Kay. Thanks.

    Yup, because gee whiz 200% of yearly profit must be TOO HIGH. 100% is too much!! We must reduce payroll to 1 million.

    Paying the luxury tax is part of why their revenues are so high. They built a team that wins every year, filled with stars. They should be investing their revenues back into the product, and whether you like it or not the luxury tax goes to player pensions and the mlb future fund so they are sustaining the business that the Yankees operate in.

  249. luis March 24th, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    Pat M,

    Wise words Pat M

    JF and Ghost,

    If the perceived market cap value of the franchise is in the vicinity of 3 billion… Then you can infer that they make around 150 to 200 millionb in profit ( 20 times profits after taxes equals perceived market cap worth, even though in some industries the ratio is larger, like it used to be in technology before the burst )

    Trisha,

    Thanks for taking note of my prediction

  250. Against All Odds March 24th, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:30 pm
    How much do you think they clear in profits in a year? “They rich” doesn’t even begin to answer that question.

    Much more than 25 million.

    —————–

    Of course

    But this reminds me of all the times Kay would go on his radio show and say the Yankees were operating in the red last season or they made only 10 million in profits in *enter yr of season here*

  251. Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 11:55 pm

    Chip

    I know, but if there was money to spend given some contingency, there should have been money to spend when better options were available, and they have been for years, and they have passed, from Cespedes to Darvish to Soler…

  252. Against All Odds March 24th, 2013 at 11:56 pm

    “I just wonder where this money was in December,” one Yankees official said.

    ————————-

    That’s the weirdest thing about the whole situation.

  253. luis March 24th, 2013 at 11:56 pm

    Sorry… Before taxes I meant

  254. trisha - true pinstriped blue March 24th, 2013 at 11:57 pm

    Luis – would never leave you out, my friend.

    :)

  255. Against All Odds March 24th, 2013 at 11:58 pm

    Ghostwriter March 24th, 2013 at 9:15 pm
    LGY March 24th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Hal is is obsessed with getting under 189 he’s basically handcuffed the franchise with 1 year deals the past two years.

    Yet he approves a trade in which the Yankees will pay $13M for a below replacement level player?

    It’s incomprehensible.
    =================

    I don’t think that Hal is at all obsessed with getting under $189MM. I think that many of the folks on this blog is obsessed with the $189MM threshold.

    ———————————

    How is Hal no obsessed with it when he’s been talking about it since 2010. If he never brought it up no one on here or any other blog would focus so much on the budget.

  256. Chip March 24th, 2013 at 11:59 pm

    Rich in NJ March 24th, 2013 at 11:50 pm

    Chip

    Obviously, I could be wrong, and although I am no fan of Levine’s, but I doubt he wants to look stupid, and they way they have been run lately, that’s how they look.
    ————–

    He will lay the bad moves at Cashman’s feet.

    He fancies himself as the true handler of George’s legacy – you’ll see the Yankees dump even the premise of building from within.

    Again, to me this all traces back to Steve Swindall. If he hadn’t cheated and gotten himself divorced out of the family he would be managing partner right now and we would have an owner who spent years learning the game and the organization rather than being dumped into the deep end of the pool without a swimming lesson.

  257. Rich in NJ March 25th, 2013 at 12:02 am

    Chip

    My point is in a hypothetical post-Cashman world. For example, Eppler isn’t likely to be much better; worse, if he can’t spend like Cashman could. So at some point that isn’t going to reflect well on Levine, especially if he has Hal’s ear, and his choices turn out to be poor.

    Smart business people are often smart because they hire great people and then take the credit for their good decisions.

    It’s the American way, and it works quite well.

    A part of me thinks that Levine gets that.

  258. Against All Odds March 25th, 2013 at 12:03 am

    , and they have been for years, and they have passed, from Cespedes to Darvish to Soler…]

    —————————–

    And they haven’t developed their next set of stars. They do have guys that are close but most are organizational depth guys. They can hold it down for a little bit but after a while they show why they are organizational depth players

  259. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 12:03 am

    Rich,

    You’re preaching to the choir especially on international free agents. I still want them to sign the cuban short stop Diaz as soon as possible.

    For years the Yankees refused to accept the fact that the best way to cut payroll is by flexing your spending muscles on high ceiling amateurs either in the latter part of the draft or internationally.

  260. luis March 25th, 2013 at 12:06 am

    To be fair guys, I think oppenheimer has done a very good job in drafting, considering the position the Yankees get to draft… The consequent development of that talent is another story…

    Have good night all

  261. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 12:07 am

    Rich,

    I don’t have that kind of confidence in Levine’s common sense outweighing his ego.

  262. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 12:09 am

    luis,

    Oppenheimer gets a lot of credit for the drafting but they have missed quite badly with recent first round picks.

  263. Against All Odds March 25th, 2013 at 12:10 am

    For years the Yankees refused to accept the fact that the best way to cut payroll is by flexing your spending muscles on high ceiling amateurs either in the latter part of the draft or internationally.

    ———————

    Exactly because then you’re not forced into making signings you don’t want to. If you want to let a guy walk no problem because you would rest assure that there are viable options to step in.

  264. Ghostwriter March 25th, 2013 at 12:12 am

    Jerkface March 24th, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    So 25 percent of their yearly income is “not a big deal”. ‘Kay. Thanks.

    Yup, because gee whiz 200% of yearly profit must be TOO HIGH. 100% is too much!! We must reduce payroll to 1 million.
    ———————-

    More made up numbers. (sigh.)

    Paying the luxury tax is part of why their revenues are so high. They built a team that wins every year, filled with stars. They should be investing their revenues back into the product, and whether you like it or not the luxury tax goes to player pensions and the mlb future fund so they are sustaining the business that the Yankees operate in.

    ——–

    The luxury tax increases their revenues? Really? And here, I thought that it was an expense. Go figure. I learn a lot on Lohud.

    It seems to me that trimming payroll somewhat doesn’t mean that they aren’t plowing their revenues back into the product. Their salaries are still in excess of $190 MM, and their target is to get down to $189 MM. It seems reasonable to me. You object to the amount that they’re spending even though you don’t really know how much money they are making.

    Anyway, I’m done. Good night.

  265. Jerkface March 25th, 2013 at 12:20 am

    It seems to me that trimming payroll somewhat doesn’t mean that they aren’t plowing their revenues back into the product. Their salaries are still in excess of $190 MM, and their target is to get down to $189 MM. It seems reasonable to me. You object to the amount that they’re spending even though you don’t really know how much money they are making.

    The Yankees already only spend a league average or less % of revenue on payroll. And that is only counting the Yankees team itself. If you count the YES network and all the other ventures, they are paying WAY less percent of revenue on payroll. A team like the tigers is spending 80% of revenue of payroll.

    I do object to a team making money hand over fist, which has some of the highest prices in the sport, in the largest market in the sport, reducing payroll. Its a naked cash grab by the owners.

  266. Tar March 25th, 2013 at 12:31 am

    “the wells contract is not only not a bad contract, its actually a good contract.”

    So if this was the offseason, you would be on board with signing Wells for 2 years at 13 million and that is not to mention whoever the Yankees “sweeten” the deal with. For a budget conscious team, that is just throwing good money after bad.

    But I guess he’s a “good club-house guy”. I wonder how many times in the coming days we are going to hear that?

  267. Against All Odds March 25th, 2013 at 12:42 am

    But I guess he’s a “good club-house guy”. I wonder how many times in the coming days we are going to hear that?

    ————————

    A ton there is going to be a lot of spin. “Long is going to work work him….Wells is looking for a fresh start…he dealt with injuries the past couple of yrs….he’s not as bad as the numbers say…he hit well in 2010…we have to get him back to his old swing”

  268. Jerkface March 25th, 2013 at 1:12 am

    Tar,

    the good contract comment ys guy made is in reference to the fact that if they receive 18 or more million from the angels in 2014 in cash considerations wells will be free or actually reduce payroll in that season.

  269. jacksquat March 25th, 2013 at 1:27 am

    teixeiramark25 Vernon Wells joining the #Yankees? Great guy who will be a big addition to our club.

    Because getting paid over 20 mil and hitting .230 doesn’t matter, right Tex?

  270. jacksquat March 25th, 2013 at 1:42 am

    jerktweets ?@jerktweets 56m
    @FeinsandNYDN The AAV is 18. Cash considerations reduce the AAV in the year they are paid. Section C 2 (b) iii of the luxury tax CBA area

    You tell him, jerktweets.

  271. Pat M. March 25th, 2013 at 2:17 am

    Just spoke to a friend who is back home for a few days before setting out for 3 weeks of advance scouting a AL East club. H esays that Derek Jeter is most likely cooked as a 100 game shortstop and went on to say that he could call it quits due to his ankle pain and restrictions that come with the post-op process. I hope Jetes bounces back, but it would behouve Yankee fans to go out and catch him and Rivera before the curtain comes dowm for good……Good night and good morning to Doreen and the breakfast club

  272. jacksquat March 25th, 2013 at 2:31 am

    I doubt Jeter just forfeits the rest of his contract.

  273. joeman March 25th, 2013 at 6:07 am

    Pat been saying that since December

    anyone who thought that jeter was coming back at 100% for this season was fooling themselves, including all of the NYY front office & the manager. That was a major injury for a ballplayer & it will take up to a year to fully heal & even after that it’s still not the same as it was before injury. at best Jeter will be a part time player in the field this year & will be taking a lot of days off…

  274. andrewmelillo March 25th, 2013 at 6:20 am

    Why do the ysnkees have almonte or mesa did cashman act. In desperation vernon wells anotherr over paid has been .enough is enough cashman said hes going to rebuil the farm system for other teams

  275. Doreen March 25th, 2013 at 6:46 am

    Ghostwriter, thanks for helping me make some sense of things.

    One thought I came to was that after reading your cogent thoughts on what is going on, that the Yankees do have a plan. And the reason no one sees it as a plan is that it may mean, “may” being the operative word, that the Yankees will have a hard time (or harder time) making the post season than we fans have become used to.

    It does make sense to me that they are changing their business model. They cannot sign any long term contracts if that is what they are doing (other than Cano, that is).

    What does not make sense is Mustelier is already there, has earned a spot, and I’m not sure there was a real need for Wells. I am disheartened, or will be, if they do not take Mustelier north.

    As for getting the team ready to be sold, baseball is different in that the salaries are an expense, but the players to whom that salary is paid are their product. If you change the product too much, you’re not selling the Yankees.

    I think this is a matter of short term pain for long term gain. I also think it needs to be noted that just because we don’t see, understand or agree with a plan, it doesn’t mean there isn’t one. And frankly, we won’t know if the plan was a good one until enough time passes that the long term results become evident.

    Good morning, BTW.

    All that being said, I’m still scratching my head –Vernon Wells???

  276. jacksquat March 25th, 2013 at 7:00 am

    andrewmelillo March 25th, 2013 at 6:20 am
    Why do the ysnkees have almonte or mesa did cashman act. In desperation vernon wells anotherr over paid has been .enough is enough cashman said hes going to rebuil the farm system for other teams

    This probably wasn’t Cashman since there was an anonymous quote of something like “Where was this money in December?” Smells like a Levine move.

  277. Crawdaddy March 25th, 2013 at 7:01 am

    I’ve been a big supporter of Cashman and I don’t understand this Wells trade nor ownership approving it. They’re trying to catch lightning in the bottle with this player, but the same thing applies to Hafner and Youk. It’s not going to work on multiple players.

  278. Crawdaddy March 25th, 2013 at 7:03 am

    I’m hoping it’s the higher ups and not Cashman. However, they should’ve allowed him to spend that money back in December.

  279. Doreen March 25th, 2013 at 7:09 am

    With the possible exception of Martin, the “big name” players would have required more than 2 year contracts.

    Still the woud have been able to take the top level of bench payers had that money been around in December.

    But if the WBC paying a portion of Teixeira’s salary is what enabled them to sign Wells, then the money is different now and asking where the money was in December is not relevant.

  280. Crawdaddy March 25th, 2013 at 7:11 am

    The WBC is only paying the portion of the salary that the player misses games. It’s probably not anywhere near 13M.

  281. Doreen March 25th, 2013 at 7:20 am

    Right but whatever the amount, it is “found money” for the Yankees. And it defrays the cost of Wells. Not that I’m happy with them signing Wells, mind you.

  282. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 7:21 am

    Crawdaddy March 25th, 2013 at 7:11 am

    The WBC is only paying the portion of the salary that the player misses games. It’s probably not anywhere near 13M.
    ————-

    Estimated to be closer to $7 mil right now – but that’s based on Tex only missing 10 weeks; like you said, it depends on how much of the season Tex misses, if he misses the entire season then they pay his entire salary for the year.

  283. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 7:23 am

    Person most upset by the Wells trade: Johnny Damon.

    When the injuries hit he begged the Yankees to sign him, they passed. They have now officially said that Vernon Wells is a better player than Johnny Damon…that’s got to be a kick to the unmentionables.

  284. Doreen March 25th, 2013 at 7:24 am

    Chip

    Omg. I forgot about that!!!

  285. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 7:26 am

    Doreen,

    Yeah, I think Johnny needs a hug.

  286. Yankee Trader March 25th, 2013 at 7:26 am

    From Jeff Passan:

    ” The steadiest franchise panicked after injuries dismantled its everyday lineup. The team that built itself on plate discipline traded for a 34-year-old outfielder who over the last two years hit .222, couldn’t get on base even 26 percent of the time and, if that weren’t bad enough, looks fit for Madame Tussauds in the outfield.”

    I just don’t see any positives to this deal.

  287. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 7:26 am

    Not that I disagree with their estimation of Damon’s abilities.

  288. sunny615 March 25th, 2013 at 7:29 am

    Bad bad move. The Yankees ship seems to sinking faster and faster. Why on earth would anyone in the Yankee front office think this is in anyway a good deal? AT. ALL.

  289. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 7:29 am

    Trader -

    You just have to hope that Kevin Long is able to work with Wells on his approach at the plate and that the Yankees can catch a little lightning in a bottle.

    We’ve seen it happen before:
    Nate McLouth looked dead and buried but gave the O’s some strong play last season

  290. Crawdaddy March 25th, 2013 at 7:29 am

    It’s a terrible deal unless Wells catches a bolt of lightning.

  291. Mike Ri March 25th, 2013 at 7:30 am

    I just don?t see any positives to this deal.

    —-
    I do . . Its just money !! its so front loaded it doesn’t effect the $189 budget. Plus we didn’t give up any of the kids.

    low risk move IMO .

  292. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 7:30 am

    Craw -

    I don’t know that I would call it terrible; but it does make not signing Scott Hairston for less than half the money look dumb.

  293. Doreen March 25th, 2013 at 7:33 am

    If it is a panic move, it is not Cashman. He does not panic. He’s certainly no saint and he’s got his flaws, but being prone to panic is not one of them.

    And the fact that Rafael Soriano proved more than useful last season probably gives this person more benefit f the doubt?

  294. Yankee Trader March 25th, 2013 at 7:33 am

    As far as Tex is concerned, I wouldn’t be surprised if he needed surgery as a result of the torn tendon sheath. I guess then the WBC would then be covering his entire contract for this season. I think the Yankees already expect that Teixeira will be lost for the season.

  295. Crawdaddy March 25th, 2013 at 7:36 am

    Then they should’ve traded for Morneau instead.

  296. Mike Ri March 25th, 2013 at 7:37 am

    Then they should?ve traded for Morneau instead—

    Agreed

  297. Doreen March 25th, 2013 at 7:38 am

    But Morneau will cost money and good players. The Yankees don’t like to pay twice.

  298. Crawdaddy March 25th, 2013 at 7:38 am

    Doreen,

    It looks like a panic move and if so then it’s definitely not Cashman’s preference to do this deal as he doesn’t seem the type to panic. It has ownership and Levine’s stench to it though, probably due to concern about ticket sales and such.

  299. Crawdaddy March 25th, 2013 at 7:40 am

    Doreen,

    If they lose Tex for the season, they might not have any choice in the end.

  300. Yankee Trader March 25th, 2013 at 7:40 am

    Mike
    It apparently isn’t involving a player on the 40 man roster.

    Chip
    I hope the Yankees, wary of the ST stats, due their due diligence and do a complete physical and blood work.

  301. Doreen March 25th, 2013 at 7:43 am

    Then Levine is living in the past and knows nothing about his own fan base, Crawdaddy.

    He should not have a say in who plays for the Yankees.

  302. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 7:45 am

    If Levine and Co. think that signing Vernon Wells is going to fill seats they are just plain nuts, and more the fools than I even thought.

    He is not a difference maker and he has about as much star quality as Mr. Magoo at this point.

    Total waste of money IMO, and poor allocation of scarce resources.

  303. Mike Ri March 25th, 2013 at 7:46 am

    It apparently isn?t involving a player on the 40 man roster.
    ——-
    ahhh…. thx YT

  304. Doreen March 25th, 2013 at 7:46 am

    Crawdaddy, that would be a different story, re: Morneau. But hopefully by then (if Tex is out for the season) someone from within is doing a good enough job do that a move for Morneau does not become attractive.

  305. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 7:49 am

    I’d say Franciso is a better OF’er than Wells. And he’s looked good in ST too.

    Very sad to think of Jeter’s misfortune in breaking that ankle.

    I’m afraid I’d have to agree w those who think his playing time is going to be much more limited this year.

    Even younger guys have a hard time coming back from that particular injury.

  306. Yankee Trader March 25th, 2013 at 7:51 am

    Mike

    Per King and Sherman of NY Post

    “The Yankees felt more comfortable paying big money toward Wells this year because the World Baseball Classic pays Mark Teixeira’s insurance while he is on the disabled list (because he was hurt while with Team USA), which will be at least $7 million.

    The Angels aren’t getting a player from the Yankees’ 40-man roster.”

    IMO the Angels should be sending the Yankees a prospect. :)

  307. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 7:53 am

    And Mustelier can play both corners. If they’d just give him the shot he’s earned.

    We did not need Vernon Wells.

    Only good thing about it IMO is that we didn’t give up a valuable MiLB piece to get him.

  308. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 7:53 am

    The Yankees have alternatives in their own system who are better than Wells, Passan argues, including Melky Mesa and Zoilo Almonte.

    Mesa and Almonte both have clearly more upside than Wells but neither showed any hint of being ready to play in the majors right now.

    I’m all for giving kids a chance to play and early on these two looked good – but as teams started cutting their A and AA pitchers and Mesa and Almonte were facing AAA and ML pitchers they faded badly.

  309. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 7:54 am

    YT-

    That article completely misses the point IMO. We simply did not need Vernon Wells occupying a roster spot. Period.

  310. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 7:55 am

    Trader -

    I would rather the Yankees did send the Angels someone off the 40 man roster. When the team gets Wells they’ll put Cabral on the 60 day DL to make space – but we’re running out of guys we can do that with.

  311. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 7:55 am

    Chip-

    Musty can play both corners and we have a CF in GGBG as well as Ichiro as a backup.

  312. Yankee Trader March 25th, 2013 at 7:56 am

    As far as I’m concerned Mustelier sealed the deal with his walk-off home run yesterday and earned a spot on the 25 man roster and I hope to see him at third opening day vs Lester, spraying hits to RF.

  313. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 7:57 am

    YT-

    Don’t hold your breath.

    ;)

  314. Yankee Trader March 25th, 2013 at 8:00 am

    Chip

    I agree. In order to make room for him and other possible offensive additions as well as Ronnier, we might see some pitchers gone- Aardsma, Kelley, Eppley, etc.

  315. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 8:05 am

    BP and bench guys are the most fungible players on our team.

    But that misses the point, The point is that we should not be spending money on players we do not need nor wasting roster spots.

    And it begs the question, “Where was this extra money when we really needed it ?”

    We passed on guys who might have really helped, i.e Keppinger

    Is anyone else growing tired of seeing our Team emptying the Geriatric wards and overlooking what might be right in fron of their noses ?

  316. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 8:06 am

    sp: front

  317. RadioKev March 25th, 2013 at 8:06 am

    Well, we just have to wait and see how he plays. Maybe the Spring Training numbers are real.

    .361/.390/.722 with 4 HRs.

  318. austinmac March 25th, 2013 at 8:09 am

    I don’t get the Wells move at all, but frankly I haven’t understood anything they have been doing or not doing for two years. Wells has been one of the worst outfielders in baseball offensively and defensively the last two years.

    They do not have a plan. Sorry, for those who think they do. A plan does not involve adding only declining players.

    As said many times, they could have spent their way to a future with international players. Let me think, who would I prefer . . . Wells or Puig or Wells or Soler or Wells or well, anyone.

  319. Yankee Trader March 25th, 2013 at 8:10 am

    It’s spring and still big snow storms and opening day a week away.
    If I lived in New York I wouldn’t pay to see this “potential” lineup opening day:

    Gardner CF
    Nunez SS
    Cano 2B
    Youkilis 3B
    Rivera 1B
    Hafner DH
    Wells LF
    Stewart C
    Ichiro RF

    Would you?

  320. MG March 25th, 2013 at 8:11 am

    MTU, I understand your pain but of the higher level prospects the only guy who played his way onto the Yankees roster this spring is Mustelier, the rest of them aren’t close to ready.

    As for Wells, if he hits .250 with 15-20 HRs and 60-70 RBI he would be earning his money, at least based on what other outfielders who were free agents after last season (Swish, etc) got in the open market.

    Whether he can do that, of course, will only be known at the end of the season or when his time with the Yankees is up if it’s earlier than that.

    I wonder if the Yankees are going to shut Teix down for the season and get his money paid by WBC for the entire year-it would be a bad baseball move if he can play but obviously a move that would put an extra $15M to the bottom line for 2013.

  321. austinmac March 25th, 2013 at 8:12 am

    YT,

    Thanks to the Astros, the Yankees don’t have the worst looking lineup in the league. Otherwise, they well might. Rosey will be happy the M’s have gone up a notch.

  322. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 8:12 am

    Sure Kev. Maybe pigs can fly too.

    I’m gonna go drown my sorrow in some breakfast.

    I was hard enough to get used to the idea of Youkilis in PS. Now I have to add Vernon Wells to the mix.

    Wells is a 13 million dollar 4th OF and bench player.

    We have GGBG, Ichiro, and Francisco all of whom can play CF. At the corners we have even less need for a guy like Wells.

    Whatever.

  323. comnsnse March 25th, 2013 at 8:13 am

    At some point Cashman will have to address the only pertinent question, why?

    As a lifelong Yankee fan one would like to believe there is a dare we ask, a plan!

    Actually the good that may come from this latest mystery is awakening the Yankee ownership to the failures of Cashman and the Tampa cabal which has essentially produced nada at the major league level under his 7+ yrs.

  324. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 8:16 am

    I know our Team has been decimated by some unfortunate injuries but it’s getting harder and harder to recognize this group as the NYY’s.

    What about giving the guys we have and who have earned a shot a shot ?

    BIAW.

  325. austinmac March 25th, 2013 at 8:18 am

    MTU,

    I don’t think this is a team that will compete for the playoffs. I would have liked them to start building a future rather than living in 2008. Does every player they had have to be two years removed from being a productive player?

    Whenever Musty does well, I think of your unwavering support. He has deserved it. However, he is no Juan Rivera. Rivera was an average player only a few years ago.

  326. RadioKev March 25th, 2013 at 8:19 am

    I don’t mean he’ll possibly be that good during the season, I mean, maybe, he’ll be average or even a little above average! ;)

  327. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 8:21 am

    MG-

    I don’t like the solutions they are taking. IMO there are better ones.

    If we are in transition, and are decimated by unfortune injuries why not give our youngsters and others who have earned a place a chance to play.

    We have Hafner, Youkilis, Rivera, Francisco, Musty, etc.

    Aren’t those enough ? How much more harm would it do to take a different approach for a while ?

    Vernon Wells. Really. Why ?

    Like climbing a great Mountain ? Because he was there ?

  328. Chip March 25th, 2013 at 8:23 am

    Trader,

    Yeah I would have been fine sending Eppley to the Angels for Wells.

    If they were to take (in addition to Wells) Nix, Francisco, Nuno and either Rivera or Mustelier they still need 4 more spots on the 40 man roster so that means 5 all together since the player going to the Angels is not on the 40.

    Cabral on the 60 is one
    Tex and Granderson can both go on the 60 retroactively so that’s 3 total – we’re still 2 short and that doesn’t assume the Yankees going out and getting the 1b that they want (Carlos Pena?)

  329. austinmac March 25th, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Feinsand and and Sherman seem to disagree on whether the Wells contract will count against the cap in 2014.

    New plan-let’s throw $13 M against the wall to see if it sticks.

  330. randy l. March 25th, 2013 at 8:24 am

    hope may be spring training eternal, but if the reality of losing in the early regular season is added to this mix , the plebeians will revolt.

    hal is going to find out what happens if the crap hits the fan.

    one wonders why anyone would throw crap at a fan.

    i guess hal is confusing a wall for a fan, thinking something may stick.

    somewhere hank is enjoying this :)

  331. Yankee Trader March 25th, 2013 at 8:24 am

    To make matters worse, the Yankees strength-pitching, doesn’t look ready to keep the Yankees close while waiting for Grandy and Jeter to return.

  332. Yankee Trader March 25th, 2013 at 8:25 am

    New Post——->

  333. austinmac March 25th, 2013 at 8:25 am

    MTU,

    It is more like climbing an eroded mountain. Once there, nothing to look at.

  334. randy l. March 25th, 2013 at 8:28 am

    “New plan-let’s throw $13 M against the wall to see if it sticks.”

    austinmac-

    looks like we’re thinking along the same lines :)

  335. MTU March 25th, 2013 at 8:31 am

    New one —–>

  336. MaineYankee March 25th, 2013 at 8:39 am

    MTU March 25th, 2013 at 8:21 am
    MG-

    I don’t like the solutions they are taking. IMO there are better ones.

    If we are in transition, and are decimated by unfortune injuries why not give our youngsters and others who have earned a place a chance to play.

    —————————————————————————–

    Other than Musty, who has earned that role?

  337. Duh Innings II March 25th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    What a stupid trade and one reeking of desperation, if they make it.

    OHMIGOD! Granderson is gonna be out ’til…MID-MAY, so let’s trade for a hasbeen and make him the highest paid stand-in / fourth outfielder in MLB for this year and next to basically play for a month and a half maybe two months if Granderson returns on June 1st minus playing time for others.

    Let’s pay him what Ichiro is making and let’s have not one but TWO outfielders signed through next year (Wells and Suzuki) where both will be 35 years old or older on Opening Day 2014.

    They could’ve got Scott Hairston for two years and $5M, instead they may pay Wells double or more that. Good job Cashman. Idiot.

    The Boesch signing was good but a no-brainer – this trade plain suuuucks.

    NO TO VERNON WELLS! Let the Angels pay $37M of his remaining $42M so the Yanks pay what the Cubs are paying Hairston for 2013-14 and Wells isn’t even worth $2.5M a year on average at this point. What leverage do the Angels have?

  338. mkt-571-week-4-summary August 10th, 2014 at 7:20 am

    Good day! This is my 1st comment here so I just wanted to give a quick shout out and
    tell you I genuinely enjoy reading through your blog posts.
    Can you recommend any other blogs/websites/forums that go over the same topics?
    Many thanks!

    Review my site – mkt-571-week-4-summary

Leave a comment below


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581