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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


One meaningless game?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 02, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

First, a quick reminder that I’ll be chatting at noon. I’m guessing that last night gave us plenty to discuss. Until then, a question…

What do you make of one game?

When there are 161 to go, does an 0-1 record mean anything? Does it mean anything at all?

When offseason concerns played out exactly as scripted, does that one game tell a much larger story? Does it make the worst-case scenario feel frighteningly realistic?

“It’s one game, that’s the conclusion I draw,” Joe Girardi said. “You don’t make too much of it. Everyone wants to get off to a great start. Everyone wants to go 3-for-4 and drive in a couple of runs, but it just doesn’t happen that way.”

Certainly didn’t go that way yesterday. What seemed to be a weak lineup on paper showed itself to be a weak lineup on the field. A Kevin Youkilis double was the Yankees only extra-base hit, and a two-out Francisco Cervelli single drove in the only Yankees runs.

Logically it should be meaningless – most of us have followed baseball long enough to know that – but somewhere along the line, the Yankees lost the benefit of the doubt. Their lineup was weakened in the offseason, and that was before Curtis Granderson, Mark Teixeira and Derek Jeter had to open the season on the disabled list. Now there are real and justified questions about whether this offense can so much as tread water through the month of April.

Those concerns aren’t going to go away until the Yankees make them go away.

Vernon Wells is going to have to prove he can hit. Ben Francisco and Lyle Overbay are going to have to prove they’re viable placeholders. Youkilis is going to have to prove last season was only a bump in the road. Girardi is going to have to prove he can push the right buttons to manufacture runs without waiting for the three-run homer.

It’s not that this team can’t do those things – Youkilis, Wells and Francisco had good springs, Girardi comes from a small-ball, National League background, injured players seem to be making good progress – but the critics and skeptics aren’t going to fade away unless they’re given no choice.

Yesterday simply fed the same old narrative. It didn’t make a bold, new statement.

So what does one game mean? Logically, it means nothing.

But the Yankees needed it to mean something.

Associated Press photo

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457 Responses to “One meaningless game?”

  1. Shame Spencer April 2nd, 2013 at 9:01 am

    Repost:

    Shame Spencer April 2nd, 2013 at 9:00 am

    If both can return and be healthy and productive then this team can win games, but I also really doubt that Teixeira will be effective this year. Those connective tissue injuries in the wrist are a disaster – much better to just break a bone.

    Now if they return to form, Jeter is again productive, and a healthy and productive A-Rod can return to even what he was last year, this team can make a run. That is a lot of ifs, and unlikely. Hence the reason that this team is probably as likely to win 90 games as it is to lose 90 games.

    ——————–

    No doubt in my mind about any of this. Grandy and his 200 strike outs, Tex and his uppercut swing, Jeter on one leg… ALL better than what we have now lol.

    And for all the grief Alex has been given from the organization and the fans….. it’s going to be hard for anyone to root against him while we’re fielding this line up. I was saying it last year and I still believe it: I’ll take an 80% Arod over our other options. The guy, when he’s playing, is still outproducing Tex.

  2. sunny615 April 2nd, 2013 at 9:02 am

    The Yankees are not about letting the kids play and see if they stick. Half the kids aren’t on the 40 man anyway and those that are, the Yanks don’t want to start their clock prematurely (which is stupid because if they turn out to be great, it’s not like they couldn’t afford them anyway). So letting the kids play more than likely isn’t going to happen. And their positional prospects (the one’s good enough to have potential) are so low in the minors, promoting them sooner would be detrimental to their development.

    According to Hal, this team doesn’t quit. There will be no “bridge year”. Winners all the time. I still don’t see how that happens considering 90% of this team could play in the Old Timers game. But whatever. My expectations are so low for this years team that anything above a two game winning streak is just gravy.

  3. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 9:03 am

    From the last thread:

    If Mike Trout was in the Yankees system, he’d still be in A+ or AA, because they Front Office didn’t think he was ready.

    I can’t wait until Cashman gets fired!
    _

    I think they are too cautious, and I don’t think Cashman has delivered what he has promised, but I also think the suits impose constraints that probably make it harder to endure development on the ML level.

    That’s why I think Hal may either be full of it, or has no idea what he is talking about when he talks about relying on young players.

    I want to believe him, but it’s hard to imagine that things suddenly change in that regard.

  4. Shame Spencer April 2nd, 2013 at 9:03 am

    Bronx Jeers April 2nd, 2013 at 8:58 am

    They were hiding CC for most of March and it was clear that he wasn’t going to come out guns blazing.

    He only made 2 starts and 11 innings and did most of his work in the minors. Why? Pitching is pitching. I think they just didn’t want the added attention. Already too many problems already without people asking “what’s wrong with your ace?”

    So throw him out there against a watered down Sox lineup and hope for the best. And he wasn’t horrible because he’s a great pitcher that knows how to make adjustments.

    But meanwhile his velocity was as low as its ever been. He couldn’t even bust Shane Victorino in. The point is that if he’s not ready then he’s not ready. Why play with fire? Let him get ready.

    ———————

    Great points. It was a little weird they hadn’t pitched him much.. maybe even weirder how much it flew under the radar. Normally the media is all over that sort of thing.. but I guess this year they’re having too much fun bashing our budget.

  5. hardwired7 April 2nd, 2013 at 9:03 am

    “What do you make of one game?”

    Absolutely nothing. Four of their top six hitters aren’t even in the lineup.

    By July, the offense will look nothing like it did yesterday.

  6. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 9:04 am

    April 2, 2013 at 9:03 am
    “That’s true, but given their stated desire to win every single year, Gio made more sense, even though he makes a lot money.”

    Gio doesn’t make a lot …. He was an arb guy when he got traded….the Nats extended him pretty cheap too

    I wouldn’t have traded Monteto for him at the time….but I also said at the time that Gio was better than everyone thought and if they were gonna deal for a starter then it should be him

  7. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Gio doesn’t make a lot …. He was an arb guy when he got traded….the Nats extended him pretty cheap too.
    _

    blake

    That’s true, but I was making a comparison to what Pineda will make the next few years.

    To me, Gio was a much better fit than Pineda.

  8. Benny Blanco April 2nd, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Time to hit the panic button!

    The yankees are gonna have to make adjustments; bottom line. Great pitching and timely hitting.

  9. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 9:05 am

    blake

    I only wanted to trade Montero for offense, but given their pitching is the word mindset, than yes, Gio over Pineda.

  10. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 9:06 am

    You really make nothing of one game….nothing happened yesterday that wasn’t already a concern before the game started

  11. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Speaking of timely hitting, maybe Cervelli can be one of the real bright spots this season.

  12. Shame Spencer April 2nd, 2013 at 9:07 am

    I think they are too cautious, and I don’t think Cashman has delivered what he has promised, but I also think the suits impose constraints that probably make it harder to endure development on the ML level.

    ———————-

    I think they got crossed up. Really.

    I think there was a sort of gray area and not a solid plan, and everyone sort of had their own assumptions about how the business would be run. Just seems like the communication wasn’t there.

  13. Benny Blanco April 2nd, 2013 at 9:07 am

    “Yanks don’t want to start their clock prematurely (which is stupid because if they turn out to be great, it’s not like they couldn’t afford them anyway). So letting the kids play more than likely isn’t going to happen. And their positional prospects (the one’s good enough to have potential) are so low in the minors, promoting them sooner would be detrimental to their development.”

    thats why Yankees farm kids dont make it to the majors until that are at least 27 years old.. lol

  14. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 9:08 am

    I think (and I said this at the time too) that folks got too bogged down in peripherals with Gio…..they focused on that and ignored that hey this kid is young, left handed, has had 2 good seasons in the big leagues, throws 95 and has a killer breaking ball…..he was always a little better control away from being an elite type guy and he was always young enough to improve

  15. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 9:12 am

    Nine days ’til home opener! :D

  16. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 9:12 am

    Rich in NJ says:
    April 2, 2013 at 9:06 am
    Speaking of timely hitting, maybe Cervelli can be one of the real bright spots this season.

    I think Cervelli will be fine if the improvements defensively are real….he can hit enough for the position

  17. brianlopez22 April 2nd, 2013 at 9:13 am

    I don’t think anyone argues that the first game and even the first week of the season is neither meaningful nor meaningless.

    But, the issue that truly haunts us, is that this is the oldest 25 man roster is the major leagues. Our starting LF, SS, 3B, and 1B are all on the DL.
    Fans and even the media can spin in as, if the Yankees can hold serve until they get back, they will be in a good place, but …

    The starting LF has 43 HRs, but almost 200 strikeots and is a FA after the season
    The starting 3B, turning 38 this year, had his 2nd hip surgery in 3 years and has done nothing since admitting to PED use.
    The starting 1B has seen his average fall every year and had a partially torn tendon in his wrist.
    The starting SS will be 39 years old.

    These are major pieces and the lineup would be MUCH better with all 4 players in it.
    But this lineup is still not built for battling good pitching. It is built to punish weaker teams with weaker pitching.

  18. Shame Spencer April 2nd, 2013 at 9:15 am

    @Ourand_SBJ

    WFAN signed Mike Francesa to a long term agreement. He’ll remain host of afternoon drive (1-6:30ET).

  19. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 9:15 am

    We will find out how the Yanks approach this stuff as their top guys get closer…..if Austin or Heathcott or both tear up AA and are better than what they have in camp next spring then we will see if they take them north…..Bradley could have spent more time in the minors….but he was better than what they had and they played him…. Kudos to them for that….. Teams are doing that pretty often now and the kids are holding their own in many cases

  20. sunny615 April 2nd, 2013 at 9:15 am

    2009
    Pitch type: First Month-Overall
    Two-seam: 91.9 mph-92.3 mph
    Four-seam: 93.6 mph-94.0 mph

    2010
    Pitch type: First Month-Overall
    Two-seam: 92.4 mph-92.9 mph
    Four-seam: 92.8 mph-93.5 mph

    2011
    Pitch type: First Month-Overall
    Two-seam: 92.2 mph-93.0 mph
    Four-seam: 92.8 mph-94.0 mph

    2012
    Pitch type: First Month-Overall
    Two-seam fastball: 91.7 mph
    Four-seam fastball: 91.5 mph

    2013
    Pitch type: First Month-Overall
    Yesterday:
    Two and Four-seam fastball: 89.9 mph

    Both figures are down slightly from his readings this time last year, and they’re down several ticks from his averages from last season as a whole. So, why is there a conflict between what Sabathia feels and what may actually happening? It’s hard to tell. But in general, this dip in early velocity is a typical phenomenon for Sabathia.

  21. sunny615 April 2nd, 2013 at 9:16 am

    CC’s first month stats…

  22. MTU April 2nd, 2013 at 9:19 am

    Just a quick drive by to say hi.

    Hike day today.

    This Team will live and die by their Pitching and by how many of their regulars can get and stay healthy.

  23. The Genius Maker April 2nd, 2013 at 9:20 am

    Repost
    The point about not developing kids or even young players is one I have been making for awhile. My last two posts on my blog below had the same thoughts. Why have Ichiro, Wells and guys like Francisco etc…when you had guys like Dickerson and Maxwell who probably do it better and are much less expensive and actually have upside because they are south of 30?

    http://www.stevewigdor.blogspot.com/

    Enjoy

  24. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 9:20 am

    CC really didn’t throw much this spring….they started him late and he did most of his work in sim games etc…..I do think he’s probably still building arm strength but I also think his velocity in general is probably in decline…..not the end of the world he just has to adjust

  25. The Genius Maker April 2nd, 2013 at 9:22 am

    At least we will get a little look at Nunez and see if he can do anything. I for one am not sold on his defense. I do agree that SS would be his best place, but I am not sure he will ever be an average defender and there is a good chance he will always be a butcher. His swing is odd, but he may develop into an above average hitting SS, but it is hard to tell because his swing is so unique.

  26. MTU April 2nd, 2013 at 9:23 am

    The Yankees are risk averse and generally do not trust their young players.

    Mustelier being the latest example.

  27. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 9:26 am

    We have more favorable pitching match ups in the next two games.

  28. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 9:26 am

    This would seem to argue against promoting parity:

    http://qz.com/69086/everything.....et-prices/

    The Yankee premium

    The New York Yankees were the only team to drive prices up for every opponent it played on the road. For games the team played outside of the Bronx, tickets sold for an average of $36 dollars above that home team’s typical price on secondary markets. The largest premium paid to see the Yankees was $67 per ticket when they were hosted across town by the New York Mets. (The Chicago White Sox have a similar effect on their crosstown rivals, the Cubs, adding $67 to the ticket price.) Yankee games in Boston against their division rival, the Red Sox, saw a ticket premium of $55.

    The Red Sox also pushed prices higher on the road. Games the Red Sox played away from Fenway increased ticket prices by an average of $17. The Sox only pulled prices down at one stadium, Target Field, home of the Minnesota Twins, when the team was there for a three-game series in April.

  29. disco stu April 2nd, 2013 at 9:28 am

    ““That’s true, but given their stated desire to win every single year, Gio made more sense, even though he makes a lot money.”

    Blake … I’m with you … I remember posting on here that the Yankees should go after Gio and people chiming in saying “no way”, “he’s not that good for what we would give up”, “he’s a fly ball pitcher, who will be adversely impacted pitching in YS” … blah blah blah.

    So we end up trading Montero for two pitchers who are currently rehabbing and left wondering if they will ever be able to contribute or not.

    One recurring thought that I have is this … when the Yankees make their next “Big Move” … either a blockbuster trade or major FA signing, who will that be and will it be done to fortify a roster that is still talented enough to win … a panic move to stop the bleeding an infuse energy to the fanbase … or will it be a first major step move that puts this team on a new course of winning for the future?

    And I am not referring to resigning Cano BTW … I dont know about the rest of you, but I am sick and tired of the Yankees off season M.O. of “addition by retention”.

  30. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 9:30 am

    It was a disappointing game, but I’m not jumping ship after one game. What struck me, though, was just not having a feel for the team, which is very strange after all these years. The guys Cashman picked up, well, I hope they do well, of course, and what I feel is not really a reflection on them, because for the most part I don’t even know them. And that’s the point. The Yankees found themselves shorthanded because of injuries at a time of year when good replacements are scarce. I feel like they kind of tagged guys along the way and say, “hey, we’re having a pick up game, ya wanna join in?” I think it would be different if they brought up at least one guy from within the system, because you could kind of feel a connection of sorts. But I know once people start coming off the DL some of these guys will be long gone, leaving barely a footprint behind. It’s a weird feeling. That’s all.

  31. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 9:37 am

    And normally, you could try to get excited about Cervelli and Nuñez, but they’re small potatoes right now. Plus, they’ve been around. They’re not new toys. ;)

    That’s it! It’s like getting recycled Christmas presents!

    In addition, in fairness, these guys haven’t really played as a team for very long. It might take a few games to feel like a team.

    It was also very odd, not knowing the lineup by heart. Took “Who’s on First” to a whole new meaning.

  32. Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 9:37 am

    You can’t lose 4 of your 1-5 hitters in the line up and expect to have any kind of offense. The Phillies last year couldn’t do it when they lost their 3 and 4 hitters either but I agree. I feel no real connection to this team of players several of which were discarded by other teams in the league.
    I’ll be happy to see Jeter come back but given the way last season ended and the age on this team, I am hopeful that eventually we will see some youth to give me something to follow.
    Railriders home opener 4/4 and Thunder home opener 4/11.

  33. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 9:06 am
    Speaking of timely hitting, maybe Cervelli can be one of the real bright spots this season.
    ///

    It was nice to see him rip one down the line; I like that Cervelli, though not the same level of hitter as Melky Cabrera, has that mentality with RISP, always looking for something to hit.

    The Yankees, as we know, naively commit to certain unqualified slogans and rallying cries (pitching wins, and power and patience) to a comic degree, and they have left out of their equation not just hitting for average, which has become kind of the out-of-trend dinosaur in all this so-called advanced metrics parlance, but contact hitting, which is kind of important with RISP. Cervelli isn’t a great hitter, but he does think bat-on-ball in those situations and has a swing to accommodate that.

    THe problem is, the rest of the lineup is so questionable, that “hitting enough” for a catcher isn’t going to fly with this lineup. The irony is, that offense from the catching position isn’t a “luxury” anymore for these guys; they have so let the lineup go to seed that they had better hope and pray they get some bat from C, and anywhere else they can.

    Any lineup in which the likes of Nix and Francisco are taking up two spots is hurtin.’

  34. The Genius Maker April 2nd, 2013 at 9:41 am

    No need to jump ship Doreen! This team, even as presently constructed is an above .500 team. However, the non excitement is a direct relation to signing older castoffs in hopes of finding lightning in a bottle, rather than trying to infuse youth into the team and hoping to develop cheap productive players. I don’t really have an issue Cashman overall, but I think he has been making wrong decisions in bringing in the Randy Wynn types of guys rather than letting a younger player for even a mil less get the job done. The Yanks should have a lot of stars and they should have a few young guys to develop and the rest should be specialists (platoon guys or defensive specialists or speed demons). The injuries change plans, but think about 12 million dollars tied into Wells and Ichiro. Wouldn’t we be a lot better off with Dickerson and 12 mil on a solid player?

  35. yankeefeminista April 2nd, 2013 at 9:44 am

    I am not too worried about C. As for letting young players play over vets, what else is new? This has been our modus operandi, and the vet meme is win defying, not win compliant. You go with talent, not a conservative approach, which brings with it no player development, but I have yelled myself hoarse about this.

    Pruf, yes, looking forward to the 11th. I just wish those road games at Portland and NH were being televised. Trenton still hasn’t announced a starting pitcher. I am hoping it will be Turley. J-Ram should be up soon enough, as well. I am pumped to see that Flores, Heathcott, Austin OF.

    LHV (Phillies) is having their AAA team play their AA team tonight in Allentown. Sure wish we would do something like that.

    Hughes should start in SWB on Saturday; they are still not saying if Betances or Nuno will start OD.

    I hope Wang will have a healthy year; he is out of the mix initially:

    “Chien-Ming Wang will not start the season with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, after all.

    The right-hander will throw live batting practice today in Tampa and will not be ready to open the year in the RailRiders rotation, as originally anticipated.

    The Yankees signed Wang to a minor-league contract on March 23 to provide depth at Triple-A. Wang pitched 12 scoreless innings for Chinese-Taipei in the World Baseball Classic, but his last start came in the first week of March.

    “He is getting into game shape and working towards a 75 to 80 pitch capacity,” Yankees senior vice president of baseball operations Mark Newman said.” (Donnie Collins-The Times-Tribune.com)

    Cervy’s always been a pretty good situational hitter. Not that he’ll give you the kind of bat that would make catching formidable from the O side, but Cervy is the least of our problems, unfortunately.

  36. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 9:45 am

    “You can’t lose 4 of your 1-5 hitters in the line up and expect to have any kind of offense.”

    That’s true, but there have been issues with each beyond their injuries.

    A-Rod and Jeter are pushing 40, and although Jeter staved off a decline last season, it will be harder for him to do that much longer.

    A-Rod does seem to be in a steep decline. We’ll see how much he has left if he can stay on the field long enough.

    Tex has been declining, especially v. RHP, since 2009.

    Granderson has been in decline for years, except for what seems like an out of context 2011, and is likely to leave anyway after the season.

    So even though the current production deficit may be temporary this season, there are potentially real lineup problems going forward.

  37. mick April 2nd, 2013 at 9:45 am

    It’s astounding how “fans” are jumping ship, it makes you want to question their motives for being a Yankee fan.
    Is it only for when they win?
    It’s like a religion. Hard to change.
    You can. You can become a non-believer.
    Or you can complain…
    Look at the photo of the new O’Neill above. Youkilis cracking a bat on his head.
    Maybe a win tomorrow will make you feel better.
    In the meantime, go root for the minor league team from your ivory tower…

  38. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 9:46 am

    Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 9:37 am
    And normally, you could try to get excited about Cervelli and Nuñez, but they’re small potatoes right now. Plus, they’ve been around. They’re not new toys.
    ///

    I would say, on the contrary, they are going to have to be relied on to play the role of heavy in such a compromised lineup. That’s the problem: not only because of the injuries, but because they’re the only reasonably young bats, along with Cano and Gardner.

    Gardner has gone from a complementary player who brings a different look/dynamic element to the offense to now being relied upon to absolutely help carry the offense; Nunez and Cervelli also fall into a must-produce role, rather than adding a spark/speed/live bat (Nunez) and decent situational hitting.

  39. Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Yes, if/when Jeter and Granderson return, and play close to last year’s numbers, this team will be a little better than .500. I could live with that if I knew that in a year or two we would be playoff contenders again. The Braves seem to be right there this year but it has been a long road back for them. Are we looking at that kind of trip?

  40. yankeefeminista April 2nd, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Again, Yanks precluded getting younger but making certain choices, non-signings, lack of deals. Injuries are part and parcel of those decisions to let the lineup age.

  41. The Genius Maker April 2nd, 2013 at 9:50 am

    I don’t really think Cervelli is a different hitter with RISP, regardless of whether he is slightly better with RISP, he hasn’t had many AB’s. That being said, Cervelli in 116 AB’s against lefties has an OPS of .826 compared to (in 275 Ab’s) against righties an OPS of .648. If his defense is improved over last year (not sure what happened to him last year) then he is viable against lefties and in fact solid. Righties is another story and Stewart is even worse, even if he can throw much better. Cervelli did make a nice quick tag last night on the throw that was a little up the 1st base line from Nix

  42. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Pruf, yes, looking forward to the 11th. I just wish those road games at Portland and NH were being televised. Trenton still hasn’t announced a starting pitcher. I am hoping it will be Turley. J-Ram should be up soon enough, as well. I am pumped to see that Flores, Heathcott, Austin OF.
    ///

    That sucks, but at least we’re nearing a home-stand very soon. Can’t wait! I’m also looking forward to JR being more acclimated to catching so his bat can get back to the accustomed level.

  43. The Genius Maker April 2nd, 2013 at 9:52 am

    The numbers I posted about Cervelli were the last 3 years

  44. Mike Ri April 2nd, 2013 at 9:54 am

    Well Said Mick !!

  45. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 9:58 am

    If the Rockies tank and are terrible then I could see a trade for Tulo either this summer or this winter happening…..they are gonna want rid of his contract at some point if they don’t improve and he is the logical successor to Jeter

  46. yankeefeminista April 2nd, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Some of us are ambidextrous and can actually watch the Yankee major and minor leagues at the same time. Heck, why wouldn’t everyone want to see prospective future Yankees play?

  47. Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 10:00 am

    I’ve been a Yankee fan since the late sixties so I am not jumping ship now but the late sixties and early seventies were not fun times to be a Yankee fan. Hope like humor is one of those things that get us through tough times. Right now I am not too hopeful but I am still a Yankee fan and “still on board”.

  48. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:01 am

    The Genius Maker April 2nd, 2013 at 9:50 am
    I don’t really think Cervelli is a different hitter with RISP, regardless of whether he is slightly better with RISP, he hasn’t had many AB’s
    ///

    Being aggressive at the plate and having the shorter swing is what you want with guys on base, nothing to do with being “different”, has to do with having the mentality to begin with for those situations.

  49. yankeefeminista April 2nd, 2013 at 10:02 am

    But I thought JR had good AB’s in Trenton last year and expected the bat to come around. ST kind of bore that out, and I think it will keep improving. If all goes well, I think we see JR in SWB second half, Hopefully, we see the same with Sanchez moving to AA (fingers crossed).

  50. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:06 am

    yankeefem – Yeah but JR also had periods where he was gassed and couldn’t do anything at the plate.

    JR/Romine in AAA and Sanchez/Higgy at Trenton would be interesting.

  51. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Someone needs to define jumping ship.

    I’m sensing that it doesn’t mean the same thing to everyone.

  52. yankeefeminista April 2nd, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Pruf, we’ll see. Love to get some of that Tampa/Charleston infield group up to AA. I am hoping we get Feliz sooner than later. Gumbs should move fast, I think. As for catching, Higgy is probably the best pitch framer of the lot. Seriously. Guy has the goods defensively.

  53. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:11 am

    Heck, why wouldn’t everyone want to see prospective future Yankees play?
    ///

    And only cost you $12. and $3. for parking. Good deal, as long as you can stand the dog and pony show in between innings :)

  54. Russell Munson April 2nd, 2013 at 10:11 am

    “Heck, why wouldn’t everyone want to see prospective future Yankees play?”

    Because with the way the Yankees operate you risk getting attached to future Mariners and Tigers?

  55. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:12 am

    “Because with the way the Yankees operate you risk getting attached to future Mariners and Tigers?”

    I can relate to this.

  56. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:13 am

    Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:08 am
    Someone needs to define jumping ship.

    I’m sensing that it doesn’t mean the same thing to everyone.
    ///

    Don’t expect any sort of cogent response ;)

  57. The Genius Maker April 2nd, 2013 at 10:13 am

    Being aggressive at the plate and having the shorter swing is what you want with guys on base, nothing to do with being “different”, has to do with having the mentality to begin with for those situations.
    *********

    I don’t think that is what makes a better hitter with RISP. Being a good hitter does. Being aggressive can be a bad thing…I think you are looking for something that doesn’t exist.

  58. yankeefeminista April 2nd, 2013 at 10:15 am

    Ah, hope springs eternal that we will have to kerp some of the spects and I am not too worried about attachment to players to the extent that I would let that dictate my watching the kids. Heck, I am attached to Cano, Hughes and Joba on the big club and we may lose all three.

  59. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:16 am

    Russell Munson April 2nd, 2013 at 10:11 am
    “Heck, why wouldn’t everyone want to see prospective future Yankees play?”

    Because with the way the Yankees operate you risk getting attached to future Mariners and Tigers?
    ///

    At least you get to watch some dynamic young players who at least you have the hope of wearing the pinstripes someday. Any way, it’s fun to watch good AA players play baseball; you get to learn the future of the game, because some of these guys will make it to the majors.

  60. yankeefeminista April 2nd, 2013 at 10:16 am

    *keep some…

  61. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:17 am

    “Clutch” is being the same hitter you always are in key situations….now it’s debatable whether or not some guys can focus more than usual in those spots….but IMO there are some guys than it affects negatively and they press and cannot perform to their ” normal levels”

  62. DONNYBROOK April 2nd, 2013 at 10:18 am

    The Yanks are gonna have a Lot of offensive problems until Jeet, TEX and Granderson return, but their Major concern is gonna be the defense. Nix and Youkilis are absolutely Horrible, and when an offense is scratching for runs, you just can Not afford a ripshod defense. Hell, even Cano should of received an Error on that grounder he booted, which permitted a 2nd run to score on the play. This anemic Yankee team simply can NOT afford give away runs on defense, or Fail to cash in runners on 3rd with less than 2 outs. And Wells is Still trying to hit the ball 9 Miles in spite of his chatter that he is gonna move runners over, etc.

  63. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:19 am

    J Alfred -

    Don’t get me wrong.

    I am happy to see Cervelli and Nuñez and Gardner have roles on this team and I am excited to see them each grab their opportunity and run with it. I loved that Cervelli got that hit yesterday, but it did not surprise me. He’s done things like that before. He comes up big in those situations – makes good contact, doesn’t try to do too much. Yes, I miss that about Cabrera, too.

    My point is that, they are and should be complementary pieces to players like Cano, Tex, Granderson. The symbiosis that should exist between the “table setters” and the “bus boys” (clearing the table) guys. Right now, Cano’s the only guy left that we know what he is capable of. Youk has a chance to show, and Wells has a chance to show, that they can rebound. But’s it’s a “fingers crossed” feeling I have.

    And I do appreciate Cashman’s staff’s skill at find guys who still have something left to prove to fill in some of the bare spots on the team, this year is different. It’s one thing to get a Raúl Ibañez to be a DH and a 5th outfielder. It’s another to have to fill in about 1/2 your lineup with guys you wouldn’t otherwise give the time of day out of necessity.

    This was not dumpster diving in the classic sense. This was a “come on down” situation. I actually admire the classic dumpster diving.

    It’s that old conundrum, you can’t get a job without the experience, but you can’t get experience without the job. Vis-a-vis our minor leaguers. :(

    I find I am not sure what to do. Root against the guys who are there (sorta kinda) so that they have no choice but to let them go and replace them with in-house guys who couldn’t possibly do worse? Or hope for the best and just wait for the wounded to heal and return. I won’t, obviously, root against the team in any way. But a small part of me? Not sure.

  64. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Swisher is a prime example….the sample size was large enough to at least somewhat conclude that bigger spots in the playoffs did affect him…..he wasn’t able to be his normal self because he couldn’t control his emotions…..now you can chalk it up to random chance I guess…..but I don’t buy that everything is random or can be explained away by sample size

  65. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 10:19 am

    blake April 2nd, 2013 at 9:58 am
    If the Rockies tank and are terrible then I could see a trade for Tulo either this summer or this winter happening…..they are gonna want rid of his contract at some point if they don’t improve and he is the logical successor to Jeter
    ———–

    I would love to have Tulo, but getting him would be painful. He’d cost top prospects, he’s expensive, and he’s an injury risk.

  66. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:19 am

    GM

    I think you are looking for me to be looking for something that doesn’t exist, because you’re heading for that “no such thing as clutch” cliche that really has nothing to do with what I’ve said, just so you can refute it.

    Cervelli looks to put the ball in play, not to hit the ball out, nor has a mindset to walk. I’m not talking about being stupidly aggressive, but looking for a pitch to hit.

  67. Russell Munson April 2nd, 2013 at 10:20 am

    “At least you get to watch some dynamic young players who at least you have the hope of wearing the pinstripes someday. Any way, it’s fun to watch good AA players play baseball; you get to learn the future of the game, because some of these guys will make it to the majors.”

    Oh, I don’t disagree. I’m just still harboring a grudge that they traded Al Leiter.

  68. mick April 2nd, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Mike Ri April 2nd, 2013 at 9:54 am

    Well Said Mick !!
    ============
    which one, i got a million of em.

    enjoy the bushes people, love it in the sticks.
    ==========================
    Hope like humor is one of those things that get us through tough times.

    well said madrugador….

  69. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:22 am

    “I would love to have Tulo, but getting him would be painful. He’d cost top prospects, he’s expensive, and he’s an injury risk.”

    Yes but his contract is kinda bad so maybe that’d help some if your taking all that money…..but lots of teams would want him….he’s a monster when healthy

  70. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:23 am

    “Oh, I don’t disagree. I’m just still harboring a grudge that they traded Al Leiter.”

    I can still recall John Sterling saying on a radio cast on the day of the trade: “It’s a steal for the Yankees.”

    Well yeah, if your time horizon is like days.

  71. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:24 am

    @Buster_ESPN: Filed to http://t.co/VhPRTMwa5g: Robinson Cano is changing agents, after quietly looking for new representation, and firing Scott Boras.

    Whoa! Wonder if Cano wants a deal with the Yanks and Boras wants to take him to free agency

  72. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:24 am

    Just to clarify – in my first post, I was not in any way implying that anyone here was jumping ship. I was only talking about me myself and I and how I was processing yesterday.

  73. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Either way I think this is good news

  74. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Cano probably doesn’t like the idea of dragging the talks out all winter like Boras always does

  75. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 10:27 am

    blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:22 am
    “I would love to have Tulo, but getting him would be painful. He’d cost top prospects, he’s expensive, and he’s an injury risk.”

    Yes but his contract is kinda bad so maybe that’d help some if your taking all that money…..but lots of teams would want him….he’s a monster when healthy
    ———–

    Hey, I wouldn’t complaint too much. I drafted him two years in a row with my #1 pick, even this year after losing him early in 2012.

  76. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:27 am

    blake -

    Re: Swisher – loved the guy and he was an important piece in the regular season. But in 4 post seasons he came up in many situations where he could have made the difference, and he didn’t. I think in post-season, 4 in a row is not a small sample size. Now, maybe a fifth post-season would have been the charm? Who knows? we may never find out.

  77. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:27 am

    I think it means that Cano wants a deal with the Yankees to be done now.

  78. The Genius Maker April 2nd, 2013 at 10:28 am

    blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:17 am
    “Clutch” is being the same hitter you always are in key situations….now it’s debatable whether or not some guys can focus more than usual in those spots….but IMO there are some guys than it affects negatively and they press and cannot perform to their ” normal levels”
    ******

    Being clutch would indicate the ability to increase your production in those areas, but the stats show that ability does not exist.

  79. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 10:28 am

    What a turn of events with Cano.

  80. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:28 am

    Whoa! That’s super interesting news about Cano. Is it true, or a left-over April Fool’s story?

  81. yankeefeminista April 2nd, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Good news I think on the Cano-Boras front. :)

  82. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:30 am

    I find I am not sure what to do. Root against the guys who are there (sorta kinda) so that they have no choice but to let them go and replace them with in-house guys who couldn’t possibly do worse? Or hope for the best and just wait for the wounded to heal and return. I won’t, obviously, root against the team in any way. But a small part of me? Not sure.
    ///

    Doreen,

    It’s a weird time for this team. We shouldn’t be here, so I can’t share your admiration for Cashman. His choices put him in a position to have to go dumpster diving, and whatever he pulls from the wreckage, it’s not going to compete with young players (low cost players, too) whom we get to see grow and evolve, and hopefully, fulfill their potential in their prime years, like other teams’ fans get to look forward to.

    You hope the younger guys we have, though they’re not top flight talents, can flourish under the pressure, and you’re right: you can’t move the needle without getting the experience, which they are getting.

    It’s a shame, though, that better younger players we let go aren’t here to reach what I consider (and scouting folks in general) a much higher potential. It could have been Austin Jackson and Montero we were hoping for, as well as Gardner/Nunez. Cervelli might be the backup catcher, which would have been fine.

  83. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:31 am

    I think he has seen big players get big money to stay with their current team and said, a great deal is good enough for me. I want to be a lifelong Yankee. I don’t need to get a record setting contract.

  84. MaineYankee April 2nd, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:24 am
    Just to clarify – in my first post, I was not in any way implying that anyone here was jumping ship. I was only talking about me myself and I and how I was processing yesterday.

    ———————————————————————-

    I thought you was going back to the Mets. :lol:

  85. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:33 am

    NOW! That IS something to be stoked about!!!

    Robi can be a great player for five more years, I would say. And he can be an effective DH thereafter. I want guys like Angelo Gumbs and Anderson Feliz to get mentored by Robi, and by the time they’re here, we’ll need great veteran talent to help us win and help ease these youngens in.

  86. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Rich in NJ says:
    April 2, 2013 at 10:27 am
    I think it means that Cano wants a deal with the Yankees to be done now.

    I think it suggests so yes

  87. Mike in Harrisburg April 2nd, 2013 at 10:33 am

    @Rich in NJ – that would be really surprising to me, if true. Pleasant, but surprising.

  88. Benny Blanco April 2nd, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Changing agents? Lol

  89. Ys Guy April 2nd, 2013 at 10:34 am

    wow, scott boras is out on the cano negotiations!

    looks like the perfect opportunity for hank to reassert his co chairmanship and sign cano to a 12 year contract!

    http://espn.go.com/new-york/ml.....as-sources

  90. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:34 am

    “Being clutch would indicate the ability to increase your production in those areas, but the stats show that ability does not exist.”

    I think it just means not letting the moment affect you negatively…..

  91. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Doreen,

    JFTR, I was responding to someone else’s idea of “jumping ship” with my comment to Rich in NJ, not yours.

  92. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Rich in NJ says:
    April 2, 2013 at 10:31 am
    I think he has seen big players get big money to stay with their current team and said, a great deal is good enough for me. I want to be a lifelong Yankee. I don’t need to get a record setting contract.

    If the Yanks are willing to get close to his market value then it’s actually smart for him to sign now if he wants to stay…. Otherwise he risks both injury and straining relations with the Fanbase……a player can get almost the same money on an extension as in free agency and the guy who signs the extension will always be viewed more favorably

  93. DONNYBROOK April 2nd, 2013 at 10:37 am

    We saw Cano choke on the bone after Jeet went down vs Detroit in the ALCS. We saw Cano again yesterday, amid the rubble that is currently The Yankees, shrink once again. The guy is Not “the future face of the franchise”. Much like Swisher, Cano will pile up numbers in the regular season, but if your looking for a Leader, Cano ain’t it.

  94. Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Cano realizes it is going to be tough to hit this year without any protection around him in the line up. It is possible he wants to lock in his value now. Makes financial sense to me.

  95. Benny Blanco April 2nd, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Both Alex and tex fired boras. That should say Something

  96. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Getting Cano done now really would make for a clearer pitcher moving forward….at least you’d know exactly what to alot for him and better what you’ll have and how to budget

  97. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:38 am

    looks like the perfect opportunity for hank to reassert his co chairmanship and sign cano to a 12 year contract!
    _

    Hal was as much in on that deal as Hank.

  98. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:39 am

    @eboland11: Three high profile Yankees have parted ways with Scott Boras in the last three years: Arod, Teixeira and now, it appears, Cano

  99. Mike in Harrisburg April 2nd, 2013 at 10:39 am

    Hah, yes the cynical view is he realizes how bad he is at chasing pitches and wants to get while the getting’s good.

  100. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:40 am

    J Alfred -

    I was a huge IPK supporter and my husband and I often talked about of the three young pitchers, we thought IPK would end up being the most successful.

    Of course, we thought it would be a splitting hairs situation. :(

    And of course, we don’t know how it plays out if they all stay here (Austin, Ian and Montero, and even Cabrera). I hate to go down that road, because, you can only deal with what’s in front of you, and I wasn’t punched in the gut with the IPK/Austin trade because I did feel like although they gave up a lot, Granderson was worth it given the “win now” mentality of the Yankees.

    That being said, it IS difficult when you see guys succeed elsewhere. I just can’t linger there.

  101. Mike in Harrisburg April 2nd, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Particularly interesting considering how well Boras just did with Lohse.

  102. Russell Munson April 2nd, 2013 at 10:40 am

    I don’t know. If Cano really wanted a deal done he could have just told Boras to get the best deal he can get from the Yankees. Jered Weaver had Boras as his agent and took a below market extension.

    There’s likely something else going on here.

  103. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:41 am

    “We saw Cano choke on the bone after Jeet went down vs Detroit in the ALCS”

    You realize cano murdered the ball in the two precious postseasons right? Nobody hit last year….

  104. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:41 am

    J. Alfred -

    I saw Rich’s post saying maybe we have to define “jumping ship” so I re-read my original post and realized that it could be construed as insinuation how other people were re-acting. Just didn’t want to be misunderstood is all. :)

  105. Ys Guy April 2nd, 2013 at 10:41 am

    i dont think cano is worried about his performance or his protection in the lineup.

    he wants a market value contract with the yankees now and boras wasnt going to make that happen.

    i think its very significant that cano put this out on opening day. im sure boras was saying that if theres no extension by opening day then he wasnt going to negotiate and that didnt work for cano.

    now get this contract done!

  106. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:42 am

    “I don’t know. If Cano really wanted a deal done he could have just told Boras to get the best deal he can get from the Yankees. Jered Weaver had Boras as his agent and took a below market extension.”

    Maybe, but you see a player changing agents a lot in sports before a new deal is consumated.

  107. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 10:43 am

    blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:39 am
    @eboland11: Three high profile Yankees have parted ways with Scott Boras in the last three years: Arod, Teixeira and now, it appears, Cano
    ————–

    I think if you’re a franchise player, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to go with Boras. If you’re happy to bounce around team to team, then sure, it probably does.

  108. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Also, Canó almost single-handedly got them to win the division. What did he hit those those two weeks of the season? He was a monster.

    The offense those last four games against Detroit is best left in the graveyard where it belongs.

  109. DONNYBROOK April 2nd, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Yea, Chad went out of his way to point out that Hal was in on allowing A-Rod to return. Hank frequently gets a black eye around here for going solo in this regard.

  110. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:44 am

    There is only one thing I want to see from Cano on the field this year: return to hitting LH pitching.

  111. yankeefeminista April 2nd, 2013 at 10:45 am

    Swisher post-season approach was always the same. A hero swing that resulted in a bad AB. Swish never adjusted.

    Cano also drilled the ball in his first AB yesterday.

  112. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:46 am

    Hank pushed the ARod deal, but no one (aside from Cashman) seemed to want to push back. I think they just saw the dollar signs. It’s turned out badly, but at the time, ARod was not what he is now. Two fewer years would have been better, though.

    Greed on all sides was the catalyst in that whole shenanigans.

  113. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:47 am

    Mike in Harrisburg says:
    April 2, 2013 at 10:40 am
    Particularly interesting considering how well Boras just did with Lohse.

    Yea but it took until the last week of ST…. Maybe Cano isnt interested in the wait all winter long to sign technique

  114. Ys Guy April 2nd, 2013 at 10:47 am

    cano has recieved the second most al mvp votes for the past 3 seasons.

    but he didnt hit in detroit so he’s a bum…

  115. DONNYBROOK April 2nd, 2013 at 10:47 am

    The players currently getting that long-term, big time cabbage are Leaders. Cano? NOPE

  116. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:48 am

    yankeefeminista -

    It was almost like Swisher saw those Yankeeographies playing in his head every time he came up in the post-season with a chance to be the big star of the game/series.

  117. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Doreen

    Everyone but Cashman wanted that deal:

    On Nov. 8, as Levine and Hal Steinbrenner drove to Naples, Fla., from Tampa for a meeting of baseball owners, they received a call from Cardinale. Rodriguez had agreed to the basics of the deal. At that point, the Yankees had to get Boras involved, and told Rodriguez that. Boras was still Rodriguez’s designated representative and the only one mandated to supervise Rodriguez’s interests.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03.....nted=print

  118. DONNYBROOK April 2nd, 2013 at 10:50 am

    I’ve never said Cano is a Bum. But, he is closer to Swisher, than he is to Jeet. If the Yanks are gonna shell out the kinda deals currently going to Verlander, Posey, Pujols, etc, you want a Leader\Face.

  119. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:50 am

    DONNYBROOK April 2nd, 2013 at 10:37 am
    We saw Cano choke on the bone after Jeet went down vs Detroit in the ALCS. We saw Cano again yesterday, amid the rubble that is currently The Yankees, shrink once again. The guy is Not “the future face of the franchise”. Much like Swisher, Cano will pile up numbers in the regular season, but if your looking for a Leader, Cano ain’t it.
    ///

    Sorry, no way you compare Robinson Cano and Nick Swisher. They are completely different levels of player and hitter.

    Cano also hit in 2011 and 2010 postseason, so you’re just making stuff up about him to fit your bias.

    When Montero was traded, one of my first comments on this board was “who’s protecting Cano?” Even though Montero would not have been the cleanup hitter right away, he eventually would have taken that spot in our lineup and we would have been set in the middle of the order, and Cano would have been honestly pitched to as the No. 3 hitter for the balance of his prime years.

    Cano had Mark Teixeira hitting behind him; this even caused Seattle last year to elect to IBB a run in, and pitch to Teix, rather than pitch to Cano with the bases juiced.

  120. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Boras has a way of doing things….in the end he usually does get guys their money and many times its the most money….but Id think it’s a somewhat stressful way of doing it on the player…..

    My guess is that Cano asked Boras to get the best deal he could done with the Yankees now and Boras couldn’t get his mind off LA vs NY in free agency …..

  121. Ys Guy April 2nd, 2013 at 10:51 am

    hank was trying to assert his authority by looking like the front man in the arod negotiations both right after the opt out and during the negotiations.

    the times this w/e did a blow by blow of those negotiations and it seems quite clear that the whole yankees heirarchy was in on the collosal blunder.

    but hank wanted to be out front so he’s the one that gets hit with the rotten tomatoes.

    too bad smoky!

  122. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:52 am

    DONNYBROOK says:
    April 2, 2013 at 10:47 am
    The players currently getting that long-term, big time cabbage are Leaders. Cano? NOPE

    How do you know? Certainly sounded like he was the leader of that DR team….I’m sure he’s learned a thing or two from Jeter over the years

  123. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:52 am

    It was very well publicized that Canó took a leadership role on the Dominican team in the WBC.

    In a pre-season interview, Canó was asked about a leadership role on the Yankees, and he responded that Jeter is the Captain and he is respectful of that. But he also admitted that he has taken on the role of mentor for some of the younger players.

  124. Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Cano turns 31 in October. If I am going with the youth movement, maybe I am going all the way.

  125. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 10:53 am

    “hank was trying to assert his authority by looking like the front man in the arod negotiations both right after the opt out and during the negotiations.”

    There is no reported evidence I have seen of that.

    If you have, post it.

  126. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:54 am

    @mikeaxisa: Zing RT @oleteej Because of Boston’s probable starter. RT @mikeaxisa “The laptops affixed to each Yankee’s locker have been removed…”

    Hah

  127. DONNYBROOK April 2nd, 2013 at 10:54 am

    You gotta remember that when A-Rod “opted out”, the Yankees lost the portion of A-Rod’s contract that Texas was paying. A-Rod opting out Cost the Yankees $$$, and then the Yanks turned around and signed A-Rod long-term AND gave him a raise on top of that. DUMB

  128. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:56 am

    @timdierkes: I’m hearing we’ll learn of Robinson Cano’s new agency today.

  129. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 10:56 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Yankees’ Cano hiring CAA as new agents. Dismissal of Boras first reported by @Buster_ESPN.

  130. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:41 am
    J. Alfred -

    I saw Rich’s post saying maybe we have to define “jumping ship” so I re-read my original post and realized that it could be construed as insinuation how other people were re-acting. Just didn’t want to be misunderstood is all.
    ///

    Appreciated, and I don’t think you’d be intentionally unfair to other Yankee fans here. Sometimes (not talking about this case), in times of stress, things get said that aren’t meant to come out the way they do, or they’re meant to establish terms that don’t fall back on assumptions. I think everyone who posts regularly here separates who is sincere and who is deliberately obtuse, but I certainly appreciate your having restated for clarity. :)

  131. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:00 am

    @Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #Yankees’ Cano going with CAA in part because of affiliation with Roc Nation, an entertainment/marketing company founded by Jay-Z.

  132. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 11:01 am

    CAA is huge in the NBA

  133. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Maybe Cano read that NYTimes article about Alex.

  134. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:04 am

    @Buster_ESPN: Jay Z is starting a sports rep agency, attached to CAA, and Robinson Cano will be its first client.

  135. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 11:04 am

    He’s just saving himself the groveling.

  136. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 10:52 am
    Cano turns 31 in October. If I am going with the youth movement, maybe I am going all the way.
    ///

    Cano is left-handed, can hit for average and power, and is a gold glove 2B. That is not only extremely rare, especially considering his elite level of play, but he’s doing it with his home park being Yankee Stadium.

    There is no way I don’t re-sign Robinson Cano, whose swing is a great bet to age well, and who can be a ridiculously good DH when he can no longer play on the diamond. With the great hands he has, he could move over the 1B, or even RF; he apparently goes back well and his arm is tremendous.

    I also want him here to mentor the two super toolsy 2B we have in the system: Angelo Gumbs and Anderson Feliz. Cano is one of those who probably has nine lives. This is the one you re-sign.

  137. Russell Munson April 2nd, 2013 at 11:07 am

    “@Buster_ESPN: Jay Z is starting a sports rep agency, attached to CAA, and Robinson Cano will be its first client.”

    Something tells me the first client of a new agency isn’t going to be looking to give a hometown discount.

  138. Mike in Harrisburg April 2nd, 2013 at 11:07 am

    You gotta think Jay Z wants Cano staying in NY.

  139. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 11:07 am

    What makes no sense about the NYT account (and maybe what actually happened) is that A-Rod admitted he was wrong, but still received a contract that reflected that what he did was right.

  140. Bronx Jeers April 2nd, 2013 at 11:08 am

    @Buster_ESPN: Jay Z is starting a sports rep agency, attached to CAA, and Robinson Cano will be its first client.

    ——–

    April Fools, It’s still just the one day right? :wink:

  141. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 11:09 am

    “Something tells me the first client of a new agency isn’t going to be looking to give a hometown discount.”

    Again, you could be right, but say $25m for 8 instead of 10 is still a big win for him and agency.

  142. austinmac April 2nd, 2013 at 11:10 am

    This is likely good news with Cano. He saw the joy Lohse had and wanted no part in that. This means it is possible he will sign.

    We could stand some good news.

  143. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:11 am

    “What makes no sense about the NYT account (and maybe what actually happened) is that A-Rod admitted he was wrong, but still received a contract that reflected that what he did was right.”

    Arod leveraged that situation perfectly…..took advantage of the inexperience of Hal and Hank

  144. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 11:11 am

    The Yankees have to re-sign Canó.

    If they want to rebuild this team, they need him.

    Plus I can’t see them allowing a homegrown proven superstar to leave. It’s one thing to let potential go, but he’s one of baseball’s absolute best players.

  145. DONNYBROOK April 2nd, 2013 at 11:12 am

    If The Boys are gonna go Jack Benny long-term, the Cano $$$ would be better spent by spreading it around several players. Chunking that kinda $$$ down on 1 guy, brings back memories of paying Mantle $100G on the “65″ Yankees.

  146. ron April 2nd, 2013 at 11:12 am

    The yankees need a better c,ss,1b,lf,rf,maybe cf,and maybe dh.

    Where in our farm system are the players that we are supposed to let play at those positions?
    I just don’t see any player to fill those positions that will be better.
    T austin over ichiro,or wells?
    Romine over cervelli,or stewart?
    I don’t think that is the problem.
    I think the problem is cc is aging,and is not the ace he once was.
    I think the rest of the pitching staff is good enough.

    Also,wells is just not that good anymore.Gardner is ok,but has no power.
    The main issue with this team is the production against opposite handed pitchers.
    Youk against righties,gardner against lefties,ichiro against lefties,jeter against righties,and on,and on,throghout most of the lineup,and there are too many bench players starting that have no business doing so.

    Nix,nunez,cervelli,gardner starting against a lh pitcher?Now combine that with youk at 1b,wells,ichiro,in wich wells is terrible,youk bad against righties,ichiro bad against lefties.

    Youk in any other year is probably fine at 3b,but combine that with nunez,or a declining jeter,cervelli,gardner,wells,ichiro,not so fine.
    We let swisher go,but are paying 14 million a year for wells,and ichiro,4 years combined.40 million for 3b production.
    5 more years of arod,who is going to be a massive drag on this team,and we will make the same mistake by signing cano,when we should of traded him when the angels/dodgers,or another team would of given us at least 2 elite prospects for him.
    Cano,and arod will cost 52 million a year,at a combined age of 67,68 years old.

    Outside of cano,maybe gardner,every other yankee player that started last night might not be a starting player in the majors.

  147. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:13 am

    @DanBarbarisi: Interesting things to note: Cano’s new agent @bvanwagenen has the old Yankee Stadium facade in his Twitter background picture….

    Doesn’t really sound like he’s leaving

  148. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 11:13 am

    Rich in NJ -

    It’s all about the Benjamins. The Yankees thought they’d get back everything they invested in ARod’s salary.

    And if things had played out the way most people had envisioned at the time, it would have been a good deal. Unfortunately, the day his name was leaked as a user of PEDs was the day that contract became trash.

  149. Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 11:14 am

    JAP- I hear what you are saying. I am just concerned with the recent track record of aging players not producing that saddling the team with another 8 year $200M contract may not be the best move right now.

  150. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 11:15 am

    BREAKING: Jay-Z to pen response to Kanye West’s “Barry Bonds.”

  151. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 11:15 am

    blake -

    Good point about taking advantage of the green-ness of Hal and Hank. Could you imagine if the first thing they did was let ARod walk away and he ends up being everything everyone thought he was going to be?

    Too bad no one had a crystal ball….

  152. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 11:16 am

    I think Robbie is thinking of the marketing, superstar aspect here.

  153. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 11:17 am

    Doreen

    There is no crystal ball, but there is the normal aging curves of players as they pass through their 30s, and, in general, they aren’t good.

    So it was foreseeable that this contract would be terrible, and to his credit, Cashman knew that.

  154. DONNYBROOK April 2nd, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Why on Earth would you sign a guy to a big time deal, Knowing that your gonna DH him down-the-line???? Yea, I’m willing to pay a guy $28 Mill to DH 5yrs from Now? NO WAY

  155. 4TrainNorth April 2nd, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Who is going to protect Cano in this lineup? What a travesty.

  156. Phranchise April 2nd, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Jay-Z has launched Roc Nation Sports, a full-service sports management company and has signed Yankees star Robinson Cano as its first client.

    Roc Nation Sports will be led by the rapper with Juan Perez serving as president. They have partnered with CAA Sports, a division of Creative Artists Agency to co-represent the All-Star second baseman.

    “Because of my love of sports, it was a natural progression to form a company where we can help top athletes in various sports the same way we have been helping artists in the music industry for years,” Jay-Z said.

    Cano is a member of the Yankees’ 2009 World Series championship team, a four-time Silver Slugger Award winner, and two-time Gold Glove Award winner.

    “At this point in my career, I am ready to take a more active role in my endeavors both on and off the field,” said Cano. “I am confident that the pairing of Roc Nation Sports and CAA Sports will be essential in helping me accomplish my short- and long-term goals. I am making this important decision now so I can keep my focus on helping the Yankees succeed in 2013, while minimizing any distractions for me and my teammates.”

  157. ron April 2nd, 2013 at 11:19 am

    Outside of cano,gardner,every player that started for the yankees could be cut from most teams.
    Think about that for a second.

    Wells,ichiro,nix,nunez,youk,cervelli,even overbay,haffner.

    Those above names look like free agents in my fantasy baseball league that nobody is claiming.

  158. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 11:20 am

    FTR, I wouldn’t give Cano more than six years after this one (maybe a vesting option for a 7th), but I would trade him rather than get picks.

  159. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Rich in NJ -

    I think they were willing to take the risk of some terrible toward the end if along the way the HR records came crashing down. It would have had marketing implications for years to come, beyond his tenure on the field.

    ARod was non-PED then AND very very healthy.

  160. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:22 am

    “Good point about taking advantage of the green-ness of Hal and Hank. Could you imagine if the first thing they did was let ARod walk away and he ends up being everything everyone thought he was going to be?”

    I’ve said all this before but when we think about how bad Alex’s contract we need to remember the circumstances when he signed it…..now now.

    When Alex signed that deal he was still the best player in the world coming off an insane season where he carried the Yanks offensively….. There were no PED admissions…..he had never been hurt…..he was going to break all the records and save baseball from Barry Bonds…..and the boys had just recently taken over control from George……

    It was the perfect storm…..

  161. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 10:52 am
    It was very well publicized that Canó took a leadership role on the Dominican team in the WBC.

    In a pre-season interview, Canó was asked about a leadership role on the Yankees, and he responded that Jeter is the Captain and he is respectful of that. But he also admitted that he has taken on the role of mentor for some of the younger players.
    ///

    Yes, and both Cerveill and Nunez credited Cano for having worked with them in the cage in offseason a couple years ago… Cano will, as players like Alex and Jeter leave the scene ( :( ), continue to evolve his leadership role that apparently came quite naturally to him in the WBC.

  162. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Doreen

    They were, but I think the risk was unreasonable and it has bit them in the butt, bit time.

    You know what the best marketing is? Winning. Winning with vastly overpaid aging players is very hard.

  163. Phranchise April 2nd, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Look, I hate the idea of giving anybody a long term deal these days. But the Yankees have now run out of options and Cano has become a must sign. Look at the extensions handed out this week even. No decent free agents will be available for years. And after the debacle of a start to this season they certainly have no leverage. They will need to pray the minor leaguers advance substantially this year. And I hope they do because I don’t want to see a package sent for someone who isn’t an impact player like Either.

  164. DONNYBROOK April 2nd, 2013 at 11:24 am

    A-Rod was given an Ultimatum. “You opt-out, and your tenure with the Yanks is Over”. The Boys Caved.

  165. Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 11:25 am

    “It was the perfect storm…..”

    blake

    Except for one thing. He walked away from a big contractual subsidy after being warned that it would cost him. Under the circumstances, if he wanted to come back, the subsidy should have been reflected in any new deal.

    I’m pretty sure that is the way Cashman saw the situation.

  166. Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Rich-that is where my thought process is going. Maybe at the trade deadline you make a deal for a fine young player with a minor leaguer or two thrown in.

  167. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:25 am

    If the Yankees want to compete short term while trying to build for the future then they have to keep Cano…..otherwise they should just tear it all down and rebuild totally starting in 2014 ….

  168. Bronx Jeers April 2nd, 2013 at 11:27 am

    It’s also possible that Jay Z gave Cano a break on the fees.

    If you want to start a sports mgmt agency it’s gonna help to sign one of MLBs biggest stars as your 1st client.

    Now they’re “playuhs” so-to-speak.

    Yo Wassup!!!!!

  169. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 11:28 am

    blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:25 am
    If the Yankees want to compete short term while trying to build for the future then they have to keep Cano…..otherwise they should just tear it all down and rebuild totally starting in 2014 ….
    ———-

    Blow up the budget or Stick to the budget!

  170. ron April 2nd, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Signing cano to an 8 year deal or more is going to be the final nail in the coffin.

    Simply insane to sign a soon to be 31 year old to a deal like that.
    Also,it is the lack of production from arod that caused his contract to turn to trash,not the day his name was leaked that he did not get suspended one second from.
    I f arod was still hitting 40 hr/120 rbi,25 million a year would be justified.

    The yankees need to get rid of arod,at all costs,and trade cano.
    This team needs to be blown up.

  171. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Rich in NJ April 2nd, 2013 at 11:20 am
    FTR, I wouldn’t give Cano more than six years after this one (maybe a vesting option for a 7th), but I would trade him rather than get picks.
    ///

    I’d go to eight years. I think he’s going to age well, and he is bound to be able to at least play 1B for us, and I’ll lay odds he’ll be an above average DH, even at 39.

    Cano is a great player, and with the young pitching we have in our system, and the talented bats like Gumbs, Feliz, Heathcott, Austin, Flores, Williams, Andujar, Bichette, etc… Cano is the perfect talent to anchor a new core.. everyone else will be gone.

  172. Doreen April 2nd, 2013 at 11:29 am

    J Alfred -

    Canó’s off-season workouts in the Dominican akin to ARod’s in Miami. He will have no problem taking that role when the time is appropriate.

    Rich in NJ -

    A lot of people weren’t in favor of that deal at the time. I was furious at the timing of his opt-out, furious that he opted out at all. I was worried, though, how he’d be replaced. He was the best player at the time.

    I do understand why they made the deal, why they didn’t want to lose him at that time. they’d have the HR title back in the Bronx (where it belongs!!! LOL) and they were willing to take on the risk.

    Also, at the time, they weren’t thinking about budget. Obviously. ;)

  173. Phranchise April 2nd, 2013 at 11:30 am

    Without protection in this lineup, Cano will have another solid, but not ridiculous year. And that may be part of the issue with him. Can he carry this team now when they need it the most?

  174. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Phranchise April 2nd, 2013 at 11:30 am
    Without protection in this lineup, Cano will have another solid, but not ridiculous year. And that may be part of the issue with him. Can he carry this team now when they need it the most?
    ———–

    Hey Jerkface, explain ‘protection!’

  175. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:32 am

    @FakePeteGammons: Cano should consider signing w/#RedSox for 3yrs 39mill so he could say he played w/Jackie Bradley Jr. This is Peter Gammons #Yankees

  176. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:33 am

    “Blow up the budget or Stick to the budget!”

    I think they can sign Cano and stay on budget IF their prospects pan out….if they don’t then no way

  177. RadioKev April 2nd, 2013 at 11:36 am

    blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:33 am
    “Blow up the budget or Stick to the budget!”

    I think they can sign Cano and stay on budget IF their prospects pan out….if they don’t then no way
    ———

    How likely is it that most of our prospects pan out?

  178. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 11:14 am
    JAP- I hear what you are saying. I am just concerned with the recent track record of aging players not producing that saddling the team with another 8 year $200M contract may not be the best move right now.
    ///

    Do you really trust Cashman to trade Cano for the right haul? I don’t. I would normally be on the side of trading a player whose already four years into his prime for prospects, but I think Cano is the exception, because of how obscenely talented he is, and because I think as a hitter he will prove resilient. I think Cano remains a centerpiece in potential championships and that without him, where is that player coming from?

    And I do not trust Cashman and his right-hand man, Bill Eppler, to get anywhere near what Cano, playing for the Yankees, is worth.

  179. ron April 2nd, 2013 at 11:37 am

    The yankees are going to need an entirely new roster within a few years,and some believe we must sign a soon to be 31 year old 2b to an 8 year/200 million dollar deal,and that is how you build a winning team?

    It takes building a balanced team,not 4 old superstars making 23-28 million a year,and nothing else at any other position.

    Tex,arod,cano,cc making 100 million a year,while declining is not going to work.

    Give me a decent hitting 2b that gives me 15 hr/80 rbi/.280 ba,making 10 million a year,and we are in better shape so we can go out,and sign another player.

  180. Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 11:38 am

    Probably easier to stick with the budget with prospects than with Cano. Also, you can churn through prospects but you are stuck with long term contracts.
    I am guessing Hal wants to blow up the budget but I am not sure he can get away with that.

  181. Madrugador April 2nd, 2013 at 11:39 am

    JAP- Points well taken.

  182. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 11:40 am

    blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:32 am
    @FakePeteGammons: Cano should consider signing w/#RedSox for 3yrs 39mill so he could say he played w/Jackie Bradley Jr. This is Peter Gammons #Yankees
    ///

    LMAO.

    I was hoping Mr. FakePete’s creator would have stopped by for his take on OD by now.

  183. The Genius Maker April 2nd, 2013 at 11:42 am


    GM

    I think you are looking for me to be looking for something that doesn’t exist, because you’re heading for that “no such thing as clutch” cliche that really has nothing to do with what I’ve said, just so you can refute it.

    Cervelli looks to put the ball in play, not to hit the ball out, nor has a mindset to walk. I’m not talking about being stupidly aggressive, but looking for a pitch to hit.”
    *******

    J Alfred, no I am not trying to set you up…I was just trying to say (I guess not that well) that I don’t see how his style of hitting makes him any better in those situations. I think most players want to put the ball in play, but people look at strikeouts too harshly at times because a weak popup or a weak tapper could result in a DP and is worse than a strikeout which at the minimum makes the pitcher throw 3 pitches and usually more. That being said, some weak hacker type of hitters can sometimes not fall off as much against really good pitchers because they are used to swinging at pitches off the plate. For example, I did a study one time about Luis Sojo against tough pitchers didn’t drop off as much as others because of his style. Most people roll their eyes, but I thought it was interesting

  184. austinmac April 2nd, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Signing Cano long term will be a killer only if the Yankees budgetary decisions make it so. They can pay him and plenty of others if they choose to do so. Signing Cano and then refusing to pay other players to make a good team would be idiocy.

    Chad well summed up my thoughts after day one. One game, of course, means little. However, since it was the microcosm of the off-season worries, it does feel much worse than other losses.

    The attendance at the next two games will be interesting. If a significant drop occurs, watch out as it would signify much restlessness among the fan natives.

    After the attendance issues noted on last year’s playoffs, I think the team may have completely misunderstood the angst felt by fans. They took that concern and poured gasoline on it. I have said for a long time, theymay well lose far more than they could save if the team suffers.

    Of course, ownership may use this year’s big payroll and say “See, a big payroll doesn’t mean anything”.

    It would be sad to see the team that George rebuilt turned into the Brewers.

  185. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 11:48 am

    Phranchise April 2nd, 2013 at 11:30 am
    Without protection in this lineup, Cano will have another solid, but not ridiculous year. And that may be part of the issue with him. Can he carry this team now when they need it the most?
    ///

    Here’s the answer: no one player is carrying a team in baseball. It’s not ice hockey or basketball, where one guy is the key to flow and transition.

    The Yankees, with their stupid moves of letting other contact hitters go, and the ideal contact/power hitter go, have so enfeebled the lineup and made it reliant on players who are either breaking down, broken, or who have lost enough to make pitchers feel comfortable pitching to them, that they themselves have done more to defuse their most dangerous bat than any rival.

    They are now in a position of having exactly ONE premier bat that can still be viable for the next couple of years: everyone else will either be too old, or isn’t good enough to be a centerpiece type. The Yankees NEED Cano to be the adhesive for when whoever emerges from the Austin-Heathcott-Flores-Almonte-Williams-Andujuar-Gumbs-Feliz-Sanchez-Murphy etc. crops gets here.

    Those players need him and he needs them, because there is nothing coming out of the current Yankees that is sustainable other than Cano, when it comes to elite level of play.

  186. blake April 2nd, 2013 at 11:49 am

    @JeffPassan: Important: Almost every star with CAA signs a contract extension. Braun, Cain, Danks, Ethier, Halladay, Howard, Ad. Jones, Peavy, Zimmerman.

  187. J. Alfred Prufrock April 2nd, 2013 at 11:59 am

    J Alfred, no I am not trying to set you up…I was just trying to say (I guess not that well) that I don’t see how his style of hitting makes him any better in those situations. I think most players want to put the ball in play, but people look at strikeouts too harshly at times because a weak popup or a weak tapper could result in a DP and is worse than a strikeout which at the minimum makes the pitcher throw 3 pitches and usually more. That being said, some weak hacker type of hitters can sometimes not fall off as much against really good pitchers because they are used to swinging at pitches off the plate. For example, I did a study one time about Luis Sojo against tough pitchers didn’t drop off as much as others because of his style. Most people roll their eyes, but I thought it was interesting
    ////

    GM, that’s fine, but that’s why you note things like LD rates, etc., to determine whether the contact is quality contact, etc. I had an argument about Melky Cabrera on another board because BABIP was being uncritically sited to explain that his hit tool was a kind of mirage. His LD rates, if you wanted to look at stats, threw water on that. So contact by and of itself can be misleading, but I consider that to be fairly obvious. What you’re saying about Sojo (the reason one wanted him up in those situations) is what I think is true of Cervelli – that his style is why he’s a decent candidate in that situation. And I don’t consider Cervelli a great hitter, either, which goes without saying, and all hitters theoretically are looking to make contact (except for the ones who go to the plate in a look for a walk mindest :) ) but aren’t disposed to making meaningful contact: our Yankees in 2012 ALCS are a case in point.

  188. Duh Innings II April 2nd, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    The Yanks lost yesterday because they pitched like crap, not because they hit like crap.

    You don’t win a game giving up eight runs with the opposing team’s ace (which John Lester is) on the mound, sorry.

    Would the Red Sox have won yesterday’s game if THEY gave up eight runs? I doubt it with Sabathia on the mound.

    Tip your cap to the Red Sox pitching. Lester pitched five gritty innings and their bullpen showed up for once. The Japanese relievers really impressed me – we could use one of them.

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