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Video: What to do with Granderson (and other random thoughts)

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Apr 25, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

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A few random thoughts on my way back to New York…

• The above video might be premature, but it seems worthwhile because it speaks to the fact that the Yankees are actually somewhat close to getting one of their hitters off the disabled list. Curtis Granderson is taking batting practice indoors, which means he’s basically one step — hitting outdoors — away from appearing in an extended spring training game. Girardi says it’s too early for him to begin thinking about what to do with all the outfielders when Granderson returns, but why should that stop the rest of us from thinking about it?

• Speaking of which… If Ichiro Suzuki can’t sustain a hot streak, and if Vernon Wells keeps hitting pretty well, would the Yankees be willing to play Wells against righties and put Ichiro in a fourth-outfielder role? It’s worth mentioning that Ichiro and Wells are each signed through next season.

• Two really nice plays by Eduardo Nunez last night, one going to his left and one going to his right. Now if only he’d start hitting. Who thought his bat would be the early concern?

• Joba Chamberlain looks pretty good lately, doesn’t he? Impressive fastball velocity. Throwing strikes. He might be the difference for this bullpen, because if he’s able to lock down the seventh, the pen looks awfully deep. If he can’t, it seems really thin outside of Dave Robertson and Mariano Rivera.

• Speaking of the pen, I got an email the other day about Adam Warren’s role with this team. I actually don’t think it’s that odd to have both Warren and David Phelps as long relievers. To me, Phelps is really the only true long man — a go-to relievers capable of giving several innings in a tight game — while Warren is more of a mopup guy at the moment. By having Warren available to eat innings, Girardi is able to use Phelps in bigger situations without having to save him as a just-in-case kind of guy. Maybe it’s worth cycling a few pitchers through that role just so Warren can get more regular work at some point, but I do think there’s some value in having somebody other than Phelps capable of pitching four or five innings if necessary.

• One part of the roster that’s performing more or less as expected: The top of the rotation has been awfully good. CC Sabathia’s had one bad start and one bad inning, and both Hiroki Kuroda and Andy Pettitte dealt with minor injury problems, but if those three can finish the season with ERAs of 3.34, 2.35 and 2.22, the Yankees rotation will be in awfully good shape. Even better if Hughes can build off these past two outings.

• When did this happen? Francisco Cervelli is currently hitting .265/.368/.449, and Chris Stewart is hitting .333/.333/.476. None of the Yankees has a higher batting average than Stewart.

• Ben Francisco’s lack of offense would be one thing if he were a fifth outfielder getting a handful of at-bats against lefties. Clearly 25 at-bats doesn’t mean much — and Francisco might not be a great hitter, but he’s better than an .080 hitter — but if he keeps struggling much longer, surely the Yankees will take a shot on a young guy. Maybe Ronnier Mustelier will be healthy in a week. David Adams is hitting and would give the Yankees some much needed infield depth. Melky Mesa could at least play the field against lefties and give Brett Gardner a breather at DH.

• Speaking of Triple-A options: Vidal Nuno and Mark Montgomery have been awfully good for Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Lefties Juan Cedeno and Josh Spence each have reverse splits so far.

• The All-Star ballots were released yesterday. No surprise that Derek Jeter, Mark Teixeira and Curtis Granderson are on it and Alex Rodriguez is not. The one oddity is that Stewart is on the ballot and Cervelli is not, although I suppose that’s what happens when the Yankees wait and wait before making it clear that Cervelli is their starter.

• Also, unavoidable that Vernon Wells isn’t on the ballot, but he’s off to a better start than any of the other Yankees outfielders.

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127 Responses to “Video: What to do with Granderson (and other random thoughts)”

  1. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 8:59 am

    Chad-

    Safe trip home. Thanks for all you do

    Many have clamored for what you suggested w. Adams, Musty, MM, or Nuno.

    ;)

  2. Yankee Trader April 25th, 2013 at 9:03 am

    Repost

    Will the team look all that different in 2014?

    If Cano is signed to an extension the OF might be Wells, Gardner and Ichiro and the infield if Jeter and ARod can still play in the field are the same and Cervelli is the catcher. The prospects are nothing more than backups in the current Yankee system, languishing in the minors.

  3. MaineYankee April 25th, 2013 at 9:04 am

    MTU

    They are doing some things well but there is always room for improvement.

    ———————————————————————

    Doesn’t that hold true for all of us?

    With one exception of course. :lol:

  4. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 9:07 am

    Maine-

    We can’t all be perfect like you.

    :(

  5. Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    Yankee Trader -

    That would be the Rhett Butler approach. ;)

    Scarlett figures tomorrow will be another (and a better) day. :)

    MTU/Yankee Trader – I don’t think anyone in the Yankee hierarchy is indispensable. Who knows what will happen there? Certainly we will have a clue at the end of this season, since Girardi’s term is up. I think Cashman will finish out his contract, and then they will move to someone else.

    MTU – with your analogy, it really does take time to move from being one type of individuality to another, and a lot of false starts along the way.

    I also wish Randy Levine would retire…

  6. Yankee Trader April 25th, 2013 at 9:09 am

    If Granderson is healthy he should go back to CF, with Gardner going to left where his arm is more accurate, and Wells to right. Ichiro can alternate days with Gardner.

    I hope Mustelier is given the chance to play third with Youkilis moving to first.

  7. 86w183 April 25th, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Gardner has been a disappointment in CF as far as I’m concerned. He’s misplayed several balls including not going after the Zobrist 2B last night — with two outs you take that chance.

    All you are risking is one base (turning a 2B into a 3B) while you might save two runs. He never even gave it a shot and the ball bounced within ten feet of him.

  8. Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 9:15 am

    I wonder if the Yankees are waiting to see how they fare on the homestand, or some particular time frame (first week in May), before they make any moves.

    The offense was anemic in Tampa, but it’s easy enough to say the pitching there was great and chalk it up to that (well, easy for some to say). Also, easy to say not having Youkilis in the lineup hurt. So they will give it time.

  9. Yankee Trader April 25th, 2013 at 9:16 am

    Doreen

    If the Dodgers don’t make the playoffs, might Don Mattingly, also in his last year of his contract, be signed to manage the pinstripers?

    Joba looked like vintage rookie season, his last outing-making a case to be a starter when he hits FA after this season?

  10. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 9:16 am

    Doreen-

    As long as all the best pieces are in place, and best practices there is little else one can do but wait.

    Are we in that position ?

    I still dislike 189.

    ;)

  11. Against All Odds April 25th, 2013 at 9:19 am

    Two major developments destroyed any chance to have a positive record of development at this point: 1) giving the Hughes, Joba, IPK rotation experiment about a month to work before abandoning it forever; and

    —————————–

    That is part of the reason why they are in the situation they are in right now. That first batch not working out started a string of moves that in some cases opened up more holes.

  12. Chad Jennings April 25th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    86w183 April 25th, 2013 at 9:15 am e
    Gardner has been a disappointment in CF as far as I’m concerned. He’s misplayed several balls including not going after the Zobrist 2B last night — with two outs you take that chance.

    All you are risking is one base (turning a 2B into a 3B) while you might save two runs. He never even gave it a shot and the ball bounced within ten feet of him.

    Did it look on television as if he had a shot at it? Seeing it live, there was never any chance of catching that ball. None. Not mocking or anything, just honestly wondering… Did it look different on television? I really didn’t think there was any chance.

  13. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    Doreen-

    I would like to think that the Yankees are continuously evaluating things.

    ;)

  14. joeman April 25th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Yankee Trader April 25th, 2013 at 9:03 am
    Repost

    Will the team look all that different in 2014?

    If Cano is signed to an extension the OF might be Wells, Gardner and Ichiro and the infield if Jeter and ARod can still play in the field are the same and Cervelli is the catcher. The prospects are nothing more than backups in the current Yankee system, languishing in the minors.

    ———————————————–
    the days of Arod playing 3rd are prob just about over, jeter will try to play SS at a level that we are use to seeing but the big time injury will take away his quickness..two of the three OFers are old and expecting them to play a lot I don’t know…Cervelli right now is playing over his head

  15. MaineYankee April 25th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    MTU April 25th, 2013 at 9:07 am
    Maine-

    We can’t all be perfect like you.

    —————————————————–

    I was refering to you. :lol:

  16. joeman April 25th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    I can’t see the NYY putting a good product on the firld with $189 mil

  17. MaineYankee April 25th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    referring

  18. Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    I’m not sure Mattingly would fit in well with the current FO, but I suppose if there are some changes made it’s a possibility..

  19. NYYROC April 25th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    I saw the Gardner play on TV. It would’ve been a tough catch, but I also thought if he had been all out aggressive he had shot at it. Just like Boesch had to know who was on 1st (Molina) when he misplayed a ball, Gardner needs to be aware of the situation. If he lets it drop(as he did) it’s 2 runs. If he goes all out maybe he makes the catch and saves 2 runs…if he doesn’t catch it it’s still 2 runs.

  20. joeman April 25th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 9:26 am
    I’m not sure Mattingly would fit in well with the current FO, but I suppose if there are some changes made it’s a possibility..

    —————————————
    I for one thinks that Mattingly will be the next NYY manager

  21. Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    @MiLB

    Update: Baltimore @Orioles top prospect @Dylan_Bundy will visit Dr. Andrews 4/29 after seeing team orthopedist Thurs http://www.milb.com/news/artic.....8;sid=milb

    Aw sads. I missed this last night.

  22. Yankee Trader April 25th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    To be more accurate, the LT ceiling is closer to 177M, accounting for what is projected to be about 12M needed to pay for all player benefits for the 40 man roster.

    The Yankees will also leave some wiggle room to add payroll during the season, as the LT is calculated after the season.

    If Cano gets an extension and ARod doesn’t do the Yankees any favors and retire, the team will have to fill the 25 man roster with rookies or other teams low cost rejects.

  23. Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    joeman April 25th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 9:26 am
    I’m not sure Mattingly would fit in well with the current FO, but I suppose if there are some changes made it’s a possibility..

    —————————————
    I for one thinks that Mattingly will be the next NYY manager

    ————-

    I think Mattingly is in jinx territory…. we can’t win a damn thing when he’s on our team as a player or a coach.

    The FO would need to look different.. no more of this managing from behind a desk stuff they’ve been doing. Not sure he’d really wanna come back, either.

  24. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    Maine-

    Really. Now that is funny.

    :)

  25. Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    MTU -

    I don’t love the 189 only because of the big contracts that were already on the books and which can’t be easily dealt with or dealt with at all.

    But in general terms of trying to perhaps streamline and be more careful about where and how they spend their payroll dollars, I’m all for that. 189 is still the very top of the “cap,” after all.

    I posed a question last night, but will rephrase it this morning. If the next wave of prospects, which are currently in AA or lower, end up being impactful major league players for the Yankees, will it have mattered that it took longer than expected? Will the Yankees get credit for that? Or will they always be raked over the coals for not being so successful in their first attempt(s)? Just as people say we have to remember that the development of players in not a straight line, do we give the system the same benefit of the zig-zag theory, in that they are trying to develop a new way to run their ball club?

  26. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Unless the Team tanks it’s unlikely the Yankees will do much of anything.

    Once we limbo under 189 the money spigot should open up a bit more.

  27. 86w183 April 25th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    Chad —–

    I wouldn’t count last night’s play as a “misplay” but he took an angle designed to cut the ball off rather than go after the ball.

    If you watch the replay compare his speed/angle with where the ball bounced and I think, like NYYROC that he could have (and should have) gone after the ball because the risk (one base) was minimal and the reward (saving two runs) was huge.

  28. DONNYBROOK April 25th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Youkilis outta the lineup for a few games, and the offense goes Kaput. Youk is worth every bit of that $12 Mill Hal was forced to shell out. Youkilis will hold down the fort until the calvary, (TEX, Jeet, Grandy, and that guy looking incredulous while dodging the Roid Police), arrive.

  29. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Doreen-

    I agree that careless spending is unwise. But wise spending is smart.

    I like it when the Yankees use all of their weapons to compete. Money is certainly one of them.

    I certainly like to give credit when it’s due.

    ;)

  30. 86w183 April 25th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    Update: Baltimore @Orioles top prospect @Dylan_Bundy will visit Dr. Andrews 4/29 after seeing team orthopedist Thurs http://www.milb.com/news/artic…..8;sid=milb …

    Aw sad. I missed this last night.

    **************************************************************************

    How long before someone here blames this on Cashman/Contreras ???

  31. Yankee Trader April 25th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    Doreen-
    I posed a question last night, but will rephrase it this morning. If the next wave of prospects, which are currently in AA or lower, end up being impactful major league players for the Yankees, will it have mattered that it took longer than expected? Will the Yankees get credit for that? Or will they always be raked over the coals for not being so successful in their first attempt(s)?
    —————-
    I think the media will give the Yankees credit. However will the fans fill the seats?
    We are looking at 2015 at the earliest, which could mean two years of not making the playoffs-this year and next.

  32. mick April 25th, 2013 at 9:51 am

    Gardy might be a little wary after missing last season .
    He doesn’t seem aggressive on the bases either.
    The mitten he wears sort of gives it away.

  33. Bo knows April 25th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    The Yankees management team are bipolar. You have the working management group putting together a competitive team and the suits selling the sizzle, the Yankee experience, filling the thousand dollar seats.

    The first – Win and they will come, the second – Come see Jeter, Arod and Mariano. The GM has to have a present and a five year plan in place. The suits, bottom line this season and next.

  34. Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    - If the next wave of prospects, which are currently in AA or lower, end up being impactful major league players for the Yankees, will it have mattered that it took longer than expected?

    How long? Are we talking about the AA guys that might make it in 2015 or guys that might come up in 2016, 2017? The seasons in between still matter, even if it’s followed up with success. Which is still a big if when you’re talking about guys that are 18-20 years old. Phil might finally put together back to back, solid seasons of work… and this is his 6th year in the bigs.

    - Will the Yankees get credit for that?

    Why wouldn’t they? There are a lot of people very excited about the talent in the lower levels of the system. Who else would get credit for their success, assuming they have it?

    - Or will they always be raked over the coals for not being so successful in their first attempt(s)?

    Which attempts? Are we talking IPK, Hughes and Joba here? Or are we going back to Bernie, Andy, Jeter and Mo? It isn’t like the Yankees have never been good at developing prospects, they just haven’t developed a ton of impact players since the early 90s. Part of it is necessity (or lack thereof) and the other part was probably just a focus elsewhere. But the core has been fading out for years now… the lack of position player depth is a bit confusing.

    - Just as people say we have to remember that the development of players in not a straight line, do we give the system the same benefit of the zig-zag theory, in that they are trying to develop a new way to run their ball club?

    Development, or the method of, shouldn’t really be impacted by a change in philosophy regarding the budget. The arguments are mostly that they should have already been good at this OR that they should have tried really hard to be good at this as soon as they started to reel in spending.

  35. randy l. April 25th, 2013 at 9:55 am

    doreen-

    i think it’s pretty obvious that no one but yankee management put them in the position they’re in.

    they’re between a rock and a hard place because of the new baseball CBA, but they’re not amateurs. they should have been preparing for the changes that were coming. i don’t remember hal objecting to the new CBA.

    just like some players aren’t very good, my personal opinion is that hal is not very good at ownership.
    i don’ think this is as much a learning curve as just the by product of someone inheriting a billion dollar operation that he wasn’t ever interested in.

    think about it. do you think hal would have ever been interested enough in baseball to go on a baseball blog like we do almost every day ? you are way more of a fan of the game than he is. i know you like to be open minded but there is nothing in hal’s history that ever showed any real interest in the game.

    where does that leave us as fans? we all have our choice to make how we react to what the yankees are doing. under hal’s leadership direction i don’t consider them really the yankees. i always root for mariano , derek , and andy, but i really do hope they implode fast.

    i root for yankee losses so hal is forced to make a rapid change. i realize this is an extreme position, but with all due respect of anyone who is pro management i think any support of hal is just enabling incompetence, personal greed, and mediocrity.

    the sooner they start over the sooner we’ll see the real yankees come back. the team i’ve followed closely since 1955. i point out how long i’ve been a fan of the yankees to show i’m not taking the position i am lightly.

  36. Bo knows April 25th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    Anyone watching a TV and tries to tell me that Gardner should catch that ball last night is going to meet a mountain of scepticism.

  37. Against All Odds April 25th, 2013 at 10:01 am

    will it have mattered that it took longer than expected? Will the Yankees get credit for that? Or will they always be raked over the coals for not being so successful in their first attempt(s)?

    ——————-

    They will get credit for it because it would be foolish for fans to harp on the failed attempts if the next crop lives up the hype.

  38. Bronx Jeers April 25th, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Did it look on television as if he had a shot at it? Seeing it live, there was never any chance of catching that ball. None. Not mocking or anything, just honestly wondering… Did it look different on television? I really didn’t think there was any chance.

    ———————-

    It looked like a hit off the bat to me.

    Personally I would have had him pitch around Zobrist with those numbers he had off Andy.

  39. Frankg April 25th, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Granderson replaces Gardner who is hitting .250 and has a .319 OBP. Someone above has noted his defensive lapses recently. His OBP is way too low for a lead off hitter. He’s not helping the team win right now.

  40. Bo knows April 25th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Gardner has been a disappointment in CF as far as I’m concerned. He’s misplayed several balls including not going after the Zobrist 2B last night — with two outs you take that chance.
    ——–
    If you’re talking about the two that he ran miles just to get a glove on them then 90% of CFs don’t even try. They were amazing efforts. After watching Granderson freeze on balls hit, break wrong etc and then call Gardner a disappointment is just wrong.

  41. Bronx Jeers April 25th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    i root for yankee losses so hal is forced to make a rapid change. i realize this is an extreme position

    ——————————–

    Watch out or you’ll quickly find yourself on the Yankee terror watch list. We’re you radicalized here or abroad?

  42. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    GGBG LF, Grandy CF, Wells/Ichiro RF

    Lot’s of flexibility.

  43. pat April 25th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    gregauman
    Arrest report says Yankees prospect Mason Williams was weaving and speeding at 2:45 a.m., then failed field sobriety tests w/ Tampa police.

  44. joeman April 25th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    Youkilis outta the lineup for a few games, and the offense goes Kaput. Youk is worth every bit of that $12 Mill Hal was forced to shell out. Youkilis will hold down the fort until the calvary, (TEX, Jeet, Grandy, and that guy looking incredulous while dodging the Roid Police), arrive.

    —————————————
    he has missed 142 games in the last 3 years…why will anything be different with this guy

  45. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Pat-

    Wonderful. Must have been hanging out w. Pineda.

    :(

  46. Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Shame,

    There are those who post here who say they are willing to have some lean years if it means the Yankees are giving their own prospects the opportunity to play for them, and are willing to have the requisite patience.

    In my mind, I am of the opinion that nothing lasts forever, and to some extent, every team goes through an “uncomfortable” period. Good organizations will eventually rise from the “ashes.”

    It is very hard to determine on this board that people would in fact be generous to say, if the next wave (2014, 2015, 2016) of prospects deliver, that the Yankees finally got it right. From some of what I read here, I wouldn’t be surprised if any success was met with any positive reaction toward the organization at all.

    But of course development is impacted by a organization’s philosophy. If your organization decides that they are going to spend money and prospects on ready-made, then they are not going to spend the money on the ingredients it takes to make from scratch. The Yankees history, but for a few years under Gene Michael, really does how they have relied on other teams to do the heavy lifting of development and paid for the now-ready product in either cash or easily discarded farmhands.

    For the Yankees to now decide that they are going to be their own producer, that’s a major change in philosophy. Because up until this semi-hard 189 cap, they still could buy off the rack if they so desired. I really do wish I could be a fly on the wall of the organization discussions about this. We are so lacking in anything but the circumstantial.

    Randy -

    I don’t know that it’s necessary for Hal to be a fan to be a good owner, and I think his disassociation from baseball had more to do with his father being larger than life and wanting some distance from him. I think we have to wait and see a little more. Who does he replace Cashman/Girardi with? Is he really willing to step away from the cap if this year’s team wears out too far from the finish line? Or if this team somehow manages to get to the playoffs, what will that mean going forward?

    I think it’s unfair to say he is greedy, incompetent and content with mediocrity. But time will tell. What sort of rapid change do you want made? Even if he fired Cashman (which does nothing if Cashman is only carrying out Hal’s wishes), the person taking his place, if Hal is indeed incompetent and okay with mediocrity, is going to do what Hal wants, no? But for less money than Cashman makes. ;)

    The feeding frenzy on free agents started with George. There has been a steady stream of them, to go along with the core, for years. The stream is drying up, and it is under Hal’s watch, and he has to make adjustments.

  47. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Just have to chime in here on all this changeup chatter.

    Hughes’ progress with that pitch was absolutely stymied by his bullpen stint in 2009, but I will also say that a major weapon for winning and pulling away for the division regular-season crown was Hughes in the stretch run. At the same time, expecting Hughes to have a developed change overnight, considering he had nowhere to develop it, is an unreal expectation and that he is still learning on the job is the consequence of having his development interrupted to serve the cause (as well as his injuries slowing him). Whatever – his slider looked great the other night, and he has used the change effectively at times this year. He’s on the threshold of being a FA, but that doesn’t mean he can’t still be learning to pitch, and he is. I hope we re-sign Phil Hughes.

    But back to the change: just because Pineda is essentially a 2-pitch guy at this point does not mean we don’t have guys in the system with plus changeups. We have a fair amount of them, but as to the most talented arms we’ve got, here are four guys who already have plus changeups:

    1). Jose Ramirez
    2). Dellin Betances
    3). Manny Banuelos

    I don’t know if DePaula’s is a plus pitch or not (he has one), speaking of elite arms, but I have seen the above three absolutely tantalize lineups with their changeups. (Heredia, who was called “little Pedro” at one time, is supposed to have a really good one; Marshall’s is a really good pitch, etc. Just talking, though, about our top guys that have a plus one).

    The thing the Yankees have done in the past was scrap sliders in favor of curveballs. If you put a guy in the bullpen who’s a starter, unless you’re a guy like Rodney, lol, a reliever isn’t going to throw a changeup too often if he doesn’t have great confidence in it not being detected. Joba has a change also, that he would mix in as a starter, and you’ll still see his CB out of the bullpen.

  48. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    Rich in NJ April 25th, 2013 at 7:34 am
    And that is what they’ve done. With mixed results, to be sure, but they were not initially in the business of building an entire team, or even the major pieces of the team, from within. I think what that does is take emphasis away from spending too much on the development piece, or it could factor in at any rate, if your goal is to keep the very best (where talent trumps development) and trade the works in progress whose potential would be developed or not wherever they ended up.

    Doreen

    When Cashman got more power wy back in 2006, he said that they would soon no longer have to sign other teams’ expensive free agent starters because they would develop their own. Obviously, he has failed to achieve his stated goal.
    ______
    Read “The Extra 2%.” The Rays changed up the way they did things rather quickly. They put the new model into effect post 2005, and were reaping the benefits two years later, not five or ten. To say it will take so many years to change the way we do business is a narrative that is beneficial to our slow and sometimes (self-)subverted process, but not really necessarily accurate. We started out right, trying to develop our farm and young pitchers, but tried to bring them up as a trio and god forbid they had growing pains. When it didn’t immediately work out, we quickly changed course, which shot us in the foot, as we reverted to using vet pitchers like Javy, trading IPK, and banishing Joba to the bullpen, even Hughes coming out of the pen in 2009 (which helped us win a WS) delayed Hughes’ ability to use all his pitches, and as a result, pitching development took a hit.

    The Rays for one have a system they stick to when it comes to pitcher development, and we know it works because the proof is in the pudding. Keep pitchers at one level all year, and move them up systematically, work on fastball command, teach them a change, and make sure that when they get to the majors they are mlb ready/able to log innings. Because of this production, even if the Rays deal Price, they have 5 more top ten pitching prospects led by Archer, Odorrizi, Colome, Guerrerri, et al on the horizon. While Hellickson and Cobb have plus changeups, the Rays pitching prospects aren’t born/drafted throwing changeups, and of the Rays top pitching prospects right now, none have plus changeups. However, they are instructed to throw the change 15% of the time once the Rays have drafted them, whereas with a player like Hughes we suggested that he throw the changeup, rather than mandate it as part of Hughes’ pitcher development. Rothschild has been a big proponent of the pitch in the past; therefore, system-wide I expect it will be made a core of prospect pitcher training. Also there was a discussion last night about what kind of young arms we covet, and we of course seek out power arms with swing and miss ability. That doesn’t preclude teaching the changeup. As for players like Phelps who get relegated to long man. Again, Yanks love power arms, so it makes sense that they value Nova over Phelps, but obviously if Nova can’t command his pitches, he won’t being given the benefit of the doubt ad nauseum. The Rays too go after power arms, not arms that throw changeups as per the discussion last night. You can teach the changeup, but you obviously cannot teach an arm to be a power arm. So, that is a no brainer. Let’s just hope the Yanks have learned from their past young pitching mistakes/the Joba rules, and that our farm/young pitchers can give us an advantage/keep us competitive and homegrown going forward. I never again want us to have to be reliant on the whims of a Cliff Lee or the equivalent signing with us, and I am sure the Yankees are thinking the same.

  49. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 10:23 am

    *obviously, the slider is making a comeback in the Yankee organization; they took it away from Hughes, as everyone knows, and it’s finally restored, Betances is now throwing one, Jo-Ram couldn’t throw a curve so he’s throwing one…

  50. jacksquat April 25th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    Gardner had no chance.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday.....y_26565423

  51. jacksquat April 25th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    pat April 25th, 2013 at 10:15 am
    gregauman
    Arrest report says Yankees prospect Mason Williams was weaving and speeding at 2:45 a.m., then failed field sobriety tests w/ Tampa police.

    Jeez, this is becoming like a rite of passage. Youth…

  52. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    Pruf, I read that De Paula was flashing mostly a fastball/changeup combo in his last outing. Pitchers like Manny, JRam and perhaps Marshall are exceptions, and might have been born throwing changeups, and Dellin had a feel for it fairly quickly (although he didn’t throw it enough last season), but other pitchers need to commit to it in the minors, and thankfully, I think we are seeing more of that throughout our system.

  53. Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    JAP -

    No way would I expect any pitcher to develop any pitch overnight. But I’ve read that it isn’t as easy to develop, and was just suggesting that perhaps the Rays have hit on some facet of a pitcher’s makeup that allows them to see that they would have a fairly easy time of it (perhaps they already have a good one at a young age or there’s some mechanical aspect – I don’t know, I’m really conjecturing here), and then they sign those pitchers and really work on developing that pitch to perfection.

    It was a big “perhaps.”

    And perhaps the future can look brighter for the starters next in line – I certainly hope so.

  54. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    And Rays hate cutter because they think it causes injuries. We all hypothesized that that pitch had not only a detrimental effect with Hughes because it was a sucky pitch, but might have affected/hurt his arm/velo.

  55. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    hate *the cutter

  56. jacksquat April 25th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Frankg April 25th, 2013 at 10:03 am
    Granderson replaces Gardner who is hitting .250 and has a .319 OBP. Someone above has noted his defensive lapses recently. His OBP is way too low for a lead off hitter. He’s not helping the team win right now.

    They’ve played 20 games.

    Gardner career obp is .353, which is pretty good these days. Too early to be dismiss him and with the available players right now he is clearly the choice for leadoff hitter.

  57. pat April 25th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Misdemeanor DUI or DWAI

    gregauman
    Police say Yankees prospect Mason Williams failed field sobriety test, but blood-alcohol level was .067/.062, under Florida threshold of .08

  58. jacksquat April 25th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    A slider should be far more dangerous than a cutter.

  59. Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Doreen – The attitude over the last two offseasons haven’t been great, don’t get me wrong, but if you look at trisha’s win’s prediction chart there isn’t a complete sense of panic by most individuals.

    I don’t believe that development and giving young players a chance HAS to equal growing pains for the org. I’ve never believed that of any sport. If the organization has a plan, one that it implements and sticks with, that can be avoided and you can still get a lot of consistency. In fact, the Yankees have done it, so I know it’s possible!

    1/3 formula. All day e’ryday. That should always be the goal. Year in and year out, evaluate the club based on the 1/3 formula and see where you are. 1/3 vets, 1/3 prime players, 1/3 rookies. It’s never going to be perfectly divided every year, but you try to come close so you effectively pipeline players while they’re getting big league time.

  60. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    I did not see the play referenced here from last night, but Gardner’s strength is coming in and going coast to coast, so I don’t worry on the more shallow hit balls he comes in on too much or when he has to run the ball down at a real angular gap hit.

    He has had problems throughout his time here, and in the minors, going back on balls, because he does not, for whatever reason, get off the ball quickly enough on balls hit over his head, and has turned some pretty routing flyouts into adventures or balls that have dropped in. He has improved somewhat in this regard, and his tremendous speed does allow him to make other plays that other OFers wouldn’t be able to get to, but he has persistent and real reading deficiencies, despite what the metrics suggest. I like him much better in LF.

  61. Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    yankeefeminista -

    Wow. Thanks!

    This is the answer I was looking for!

    Again, someone should be paying you….

    :)

  62. Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    And yes, I realize two decades of consistency is more than anyone could possibly ask for…. which is why I’m saying, ‘hey, let’s go for three!!!’ :twisted:

  63. jacksquat April 25th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Excuse my jumbled grammar…

  64. joeman April 25th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Gardner has 1 SB in 20 games….and that the 2nd biggest part of him game

  65. Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Shame -

    per the prediction chart, I don’t think anyone has the guts to guess the Yankees would be a 75-80 win team. ;)

    And we are an optimistic lot, else we wouldn’t be here, I guess, even with the day-to-day grousing.

    :)

  66. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    That’s why supposedly we (Yanks) pocketed sliders for curveballs or that was the rumor, but Yanks pitching gurus denied that.

  67. blake April 25th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    “If you’re talking about the two that he ran miles just to get a glove on them then 90% of CFs don’t even try. They were amazing efforts. After watching Granderson freeze on balls hit, break wrong etc and then call Gardner a disappointment is just wrong.”

    This

  68. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Crap, these kids need a DD – Designated Driver when they party.

  69. blake April 25th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Come on Mason….will athletes please stop being stupid about this stuff …..the Yankees will buy you a cab or probably even send a limo to get you

  70. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Doreen, answer to what?

  71. joeman April 25th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    I said the NYY would win 83 games this year

  72. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    blake, agree, but if they ask for a cab/limo though then they are admitting they drank to much. Perhaps they consider that taboo.

  73. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 10:39 am

    JAP/YF-

    No if we can just teach some of our guys the split.

    ;)

  74. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Sp: now. sorry

  75. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    “If you’re talking about the two that he ran miles just to get a glove on them then 90% of CFs don’t even try. They were amazing efforts. After watching Granderson freeze on balls hit, break wrong etc and then call Gardner a disappointment is just wrong.”
    ///

    Both are actually true of Gardner: he gets his glove on balls most can’t get to that are run down at an angle, and is capable of making a spectacular catch (and I don’t mean that pejoratively, I mean spectacular in the true sense)

    AND:

    he himself “freezes”/delays on balls hit straight back and does not close on those particularly well once he gets going.

    He’s got his strengths and weaknesses, but UZR and other metrics have created a defender that isn’t what you actually get from Gardner in CF.

  76. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:44 am

    MTU, a splitter would be nice; maybe we can enlist Coney to teach it, but there is a debate on whether or not the split causes injuries too…

  77. Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    yankeefeminista -

    To precisely what was being talked about when discussing “development” of the pitchers. It may have all been mentioned here before in bits and pieces, but your last post was comprehensive and gave me, for the first time, a very good idea of what was meant.

  78. Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    joeman, that’s still over .500. :)

  79. jacksquat April 25th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    I think Gardner even with some imperfections is still better now than Granderson in CF, even if you discard the numbers and just use the eye test.

    But I suspect Joe will want to play Granderson in CF because he is not used to LF (which I think is dumb) and because of his veteran status. He may also want Ichiro in RF even if he isn’t hitting because he is the only experienced RF’er. I don’t think Wells should be platooned. So I don’t know what they are going to do, but I probably won’t like it.

  80. joeman April 25th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 10:46 am
    joeman, that’s still over .500.
    ——————————
    there’s no reason they can’t play over .500 ball unless the SPing falters

  81. jacksquat April 25th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    I don’t understand the fear of the splitter either. Can be a great pitch to have. See Kuroda.

  82. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:49 am

    Doreen, got it! Pitcher development is fascinating, isn’t it? I read bits and pieces from our pitching coaches, but I would love to have access to a more comprehensive Yankee pitching philosophy beyond the obvious especially now with Gil and Rothschild in the mix. With the Rays, there is a lot out there on what they do, and I have followed that because I am a pitching-centric fan, especially when it comes to what it takes to develop young pitchers. The Rays too have this covert shoulder strengthening program, which helps to avert injury. I would love to know more.

  83. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 10:49 am

    Never have believed in the “one size fits all” philoosphy of teaching Pitching.

    Each guy has natural strenghs and weaknesses.

    IMO a great coach works w. both to exploit the strength and minimize the weakness(es).

  84. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Yeah, well, Kuroda is a machine. I wish we had a few more young versions of him in the system. Although, knock on wood, he like Andy, is ageless.

  85. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    YF-

    The few studies I have seen say that an additional risk is “bogus”.

    ;)

  86. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    MTU, I agree, and that is thankfully, Gil’s philosophy also. Think before him we perhaps forced certain pitchers into a one size fits all model. So, here’s hoping we have evolved. Again, not sure about our previous philosophy but Gil has actually said he doesn’t try to change too much in terms of a pitcher’s natural inclinations.

  87. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:54 am

    MTU, that could be so. Just thought I would throw it out there.

  88. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Flores prefers to play CF. Says for him the corners are more difficult. I would think that would be the case in NYS, and that is likely why Gardy will play there once Grandy comes back.

  89. Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    yankeefeminista -

    I think something that works against the Yankees, which should NOT, is that I think there is a “don’t mess with success” attitude that comes from 18 years of winning baseball. I myself say very often, how much could they be doing wrong if they are consistently putting good teams out there?

    So, perhaps it’s not so much that they’re doing things “wrong” but that they can still do some things “better.” And if, as Cashman says, pitching is the keys to the kingdom, why are they not cutting edge with their pitching program?

    And I also spend time wondering what the political mess is inside the administration is now that George is gone? Who has what philosophy and which has ownership’s ear? I imagine it was a huge step to get ownership to even acknowledge that attention needed to be paid to the minor league system at all. But now it still needs tweaking.

    Money was invested on making the facilities in the minor leagues much nicer; I hope money is being invested in what you don’t easily see.

    Personal experience tells me that’s the hardest thing to get people to spend money on – what you can’t readily see.

  90. comnsnse April 25th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Obviously it’s not simply LH pitching that confounds this abysmal crop of aging vets and modest younger players efforts.

    Yankee Trader posted a potential O.F. group for 2014 of Gardner,Ichiro and Wells ,which if so tells you the course of this team for the near term. Disaster!

    Astonishingly this is what Cashman and co. have wrought. The spoiled fan base( including us!) and paying customers might stand for this for a year but guaranteed if this OF alignment is accurate for next year the place will be half empty.

    Compounding all is the pitching which will likely be without both Kuroda and Pettitte in 2014, deciding what to do with Jeter, Arod’s situation, Cano’s contract, Granderson’s walk year, Teixiera’s “decline”, no truly sure shot pitching prospects on and on!

    Like it or not they will have to spend their way out of the mess created by those in charge!

  91. MTU April 25th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Time to tend to the sick litte Mopead.

    Catch you all later.

    ;)

  92. austinmac April 25th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    MTU,

    You were thinking of me when you said not everyone needs improving, right? Right?

  93. jacksquat April 25th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Yanks just got owned last night by a young guy throwing very well against an even more depleted lineup than it already was. Youk and Wells are the middle of the lineup now.

  94. Bo knows April 25th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    All OFs freeze on a ball hit directly at them, especially CFs. It’s coming at you out of a background with no spatial reference. I’m not being an apologist for Gardner but he has played very little CF at the Majors level and I was just commenting on how well he has played that position and this is something I know whatoff I speak.

    He is at the elite level now and with more experience would improve on that. Replacing him with Granderson in CF will do the team a disservice.

  95. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    where does that leave us as fans? we all have our choice to make how we react to what the yankees are doing. under hal’s leadership direction i don’t consider them really the yankees. i always root for mariano , derek , and andy, but i really do hope they implode fast.

    i root for yankee losses so hal is forced to make a rapid change. i realize this is an extreme position, but with all due respect of anyone who is pro management i think any support of hal is just enabling incompetence, personal greed, and mediocrity.
    ///

    Randy,

    I root for the team to win and Cashman and Girardi to be fired ;)

    I know that is a schizophrenic and impossible stance, but I cannot root against management if it means Rivera’s last season ends either when the regular season does, or, like last year, he just watches the tragic proceedings from the bullpen.

    It is also intolerable to me, that Jeter should find himself in the middle of the infield (should we be so fortunate that he returns able to play short) on a team thoroughly in retreat and overmatched against a playoff opponent.

    Having said all that, I completely understand how you feel; I don’t think you’re rooting “against the Yankees”, I think you’re rooting with all your heart for the Yankees to be the Yankees again, and that you are invoking what Chinese Medicine calls “The Law of Cure”…. that is, illness must reach its crisis stage to jolt the body’s defenses deeply enough to promote a true rally in the direction of health.

    I totally get this, and philosophically, I am in complete agreement. My problem is, the above, and what I think will be panic moves made in the throes of an ugly demise, should it come to that, that will hinder – not help – the franchise begin a new and viogorous, youth-infused era.

    Otherwise, I hear you loud and clear. :D

  96. ac1 April 25th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Yanks just got owned last night by a young guy throwing very well against an even more depleted lineup than it already was. Youk and Wells are the middle of the lineup now.
    ___

    With Youk out, it should have been planned ahead against Price to let Wells DH and let Boesch or Francisco play the field. This way you dont need to take Wells completely out of the lineup last night. His presence would have made that weakass lineup a little longer.

  97. jacksquat April 25th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    ac1 April 25th, 2013 at 11:07 am
    Yanks just got owned last night by a young guy throwing very well against an even more depleted lineup than it already was. Youk and Wells are the middle of the lineup now.
    ___

    With Youk out, it should have been planned ahead against Price to let Wells DH and let Boesch or Francisco play the field. This way you dont need to take Wells completely out of the lineup last night. His presence would have made that weakass lineup a little longer.

    I agree. Why did Girardi think of that?

  98. jacksquat April 25th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    *didn’t*

  99. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Bo, interesting to see if more reps help with that. I think those of us who attend a lot of live games have seen Gardner not react very well in CF at times in spite of his many gifts and plus plus D. I don’t know if reps will improve that or if he sometimes can’t react/read the ball off the bat quickly enough. Often his speed helps him to compensate.

    Doreen, I would think because Hal wants to save money and be efficient (accounting/numbers/business model) that he would be all in on young and cost controlled, as well as implementing advanced metrics analysis that would ideally produce that result, save money and increase efficiency. Therefore, it would behoove Hal not to put money into development, which is what most teams have done going back a few years, since we all have known that since the late 2000′s FA as we once knew it is a thing of the past. We have been touting the farm and the cost effectiveness of producing our own players going back 6+ years. We just need to be efficient at it and produce some results. This next wave of players hopefully will pay dividends and we will be able to spell success as both “win now” and young and cost effective. We shouldn’t make the mistake of equating the way we have done things in the past/conservatism with success in this new playing field. Also the Yankees need to understand the fan’s affinity with homegrown players. if they want to see fans in the ballpark, they need to create a new core that a fan can identify with. Complementary players are fine, but you cannot make up a team of all one year vets from elsewhere and expect the fans to show the same kind of enthusiasm they feel for Core 4 players or for watching one of their own develop.

  100. ac1 April 25th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    I agree. Why did Girardi think of that?
    ___

    He doesn’t have instincts?
    Everything is by the book unless he is forced out of it.

  101. ac1 April 25th, 2013 at 11:17 am

    Also the Yankees need to understand the fan’s affinity with homegrown players. if they want to see fans in the ballpark, they need to create a new core that a fan can identify with. Complementary players are fine, but you cannot make up a team of all one year vets from elsewhere and expect the fans to show the same kind of enthusiasm they feel for Core 4 players or for watching one of their own develop.
    ___

    Agree 100%. I would rather pay to watch the Trenton Thunder team right now than the Yankees.

  102. blake April 25th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    “He is at the elite level now and with more experience would improve on that. Replacing him with Granderson in CF will do the team a disservice.”

    I really hope they keep Gardner in CF when Grandy comes back …..don’t think they will though because they are afraid it’ll affect Granderson offensively.

    I wouldn’t worry about that because Grandy is a pro and because this team needs all the advantages it can get……if Gardner is worth just one more win that could be the difference in making and not making the playoffs

  103. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    We started out right, trying to develop our farm and young pitchers, but tried to bring them up as a trio and god forbid they had growing pains. When it didn’t immediately work out, we quickly changed course, which shot us in the foot, as we reverted to using vet pitchers like Javy, trading IPK, and banishing Joba to the bullpen, even Hughes coming out of the pen in 2009 (which helped us win a WS) delayed Hughes’ ability to use all his pitches, and as a result, pitching development took a hit.
    ///

    Yankeefem – Great post overall.

    That World Series was such a high, and I’m glad – whatever happens going forward – that Jorge/DJ/Andy/Mo got to win one more, and that Alex finally got his ring.

    I knew, looking down when Cano fielded Victorino’s grounder and flipped the ball to Tex for the final out of 2009, that I probably would be seeing those four celebrate a world championship together for the last time, so I made sure to take that in.

    But we paid for that WS. They should have treated it as house money, and something that would give Cashman a true grace period to really build up a perennial winner and allow him to start moving in the young players/pitchers he promised the farm would deliver, to allow for a transition to a new era, while the aging stars we had were still viable and provided ease for those youngsters to comfortably and gradually entrench themselves.

  104. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    ac1 agree about Wells. But Girardi has his “rest” charts drawn up months in advance, unless of course we are talking about Jeter or Robinson Cano, who both need no rest, or so it seems.

  105. Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 11:20 am

    pat April 25th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    gregauman
    Arrest report says Yankees prospect Mason Williams was weaving and speeding at 2:45 a.m., then failed field sobriety tests w/ Tampa police.

    —————–

    Ahhh, Girardi’s Binder tweet makes sense now lol. Oh Mason…. really people, in some places a taxi costs as much as a c*cktail. (C*cktail gets caught in the censor, btw. I thought I posted this 20 minutes ago…)

  106. Mike in Harrisburg April 25th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    @yankeefeminista I think that’s it in a nutshell re homegrown players. Very well put.

  107. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Pruf, I wouldn’t trade the 2009 WS either. We stayed in the park until something like 2AM just soaking it up. But I wish we had as you said used the “grace period” to bolster areas and make some less conservative moves. I have to say that 2010 playoff series vs. Texas was such a low point. We were totally overmatched: old, slow, and lacked bat speed. I don’t believe at all that we would have had to take a step back to take a step forward. But it is what it is.

  108. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    Pruf, I read that De Paula was flashing mostly a fastball/changeup combo in his last outing.
    ///

    Interesting. I wonder if that was an imperative or he just had such a great fastball that day.

  109. pat April 25th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    This years team has alot of “homegrown” players on it.
    Probably more than the teams from the 90′s.

  110. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Texas was such a low point. We were totally overmatched: old, slow, and lacked bat speed. I don’t believe at all that we would have had to take a step back to take a step forward. But it is what it is.
    ///

    That’s right – we would not have had to take some major plunge into darkness to have accommodated a transition.

    This is what I find so damn disingenuous, or at best – naive – in here when people say “Well, transitioning to young players isn’t easy and teams go through this” blah blah blah.

    NO! They blew a Golden Moment in Time, to integrate youth WITHOUT sacrificing much, if at all – the ability to “win now”…. They HAD a chance to do BOTH, and this current state of 1-year signings: this Cano and a Prayer situation is what they allowed the Yankees to come to.

    Management did this: they are not the martyrs of some inevitable state of entropy that visits “all teams eventually.”

    That is the Great Lie told here, over and over again to excuse their ineptness.

  111. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Pruf, not sure but we will find out next week when we hopefully get to see De Paula live and in person (fingers crossed).

    “Agree 100%. I would rather pay to watch the Trenton Thunder team right now than the Yankees.”

    ac1, QFT. I have attended less Yankee games this year in April than I ever have before. And usually I will go through brick walls and will sit in a windy, snow covered Stadium if need be to watch my team… Still love them, but I am not going to spend hundreds on tix and parking and spend 3 hours roundtrip in the car to attend many games right now, although I do love our pitching and would pay to watch any of them: C. is a Yankee through and through, Kuroda-san is awesome, and I root vociferously for the homegrown pitchers of that group. Actually, I am debating whether to attend some of the Toronto games. Or go see Portland at Trenton…

  112. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    pat, technically. But as far as position players go I would rather watch Bernie, Jeet, Posada than the homegrown position players beyond Cano. I like Gardy, Cervy, Nunez but it is not even close. And like I said, I love our pitching and all the homegrowns in that group including our pen.

  113. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Bo knows April 25th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    All OFs freeze on a ball hit directly at them, especially CFs. It’s coming at you out of a background with no spatial reference. I’m not being an apologist for Gardner but he has played very little CF at the Majors level and I was just commenting on how well he has played that position and this is something I know whatoff I speak.

    He is at the elite level now and with more experience would improve on that. Replacing him with Granderson in CF will do the team a disservice.

    ///

    No, i’m using “freeze” in the same way you were using it regarding Granderson, who has been mostly very good going back to the wall. I think Gardner’s improved some on that, but I also think he has real reading deficiencies and other problems, like not running through the ball once he gets back there, turning the wrong way. He kind of pulls up, the way Henderson did, rather than run through. Elite speed just doesn’t guarantee other things, or he wouldn’t have those issues.

  114. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Mike in Harrisburg, do you attending any MiLB games in Harrisburg?

  115. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 11:44 am

    *attend

  116. ac1 April 25th, 2013 at 11:44 am

    I think Nunez will be ok and I am happy for Cervelli. Gardner is not exciting with his .310 obp and 1 stolen base. If he can’t do the things he is supposed to be good at, he is no help to us.

    I said this the other day: I would love to have a team in 2014 that looks something like this (taking contracts into account)

    SP: CC/Pettitte/Pineda/Phelps/Nuno
    RP: Robertson/Joba (i would resign)/Cabral (L)/Rondon (L)/Kelley/Montgomery/Warren (long relief)
    OF: Austin/Heathcott/Flores/Wells – release Ichiro and let Wells split time
    C: Cervelli/Romine
    INF: Adams (3b), Nunez (ss), Cano (2b), Tex (1b),
    Utility IF – some veteran

    Jeter and Alex are questions. If we cant get rid of Alex, make him full time DH. I dont know what to do with Jeter because there is no way he is going to come back as a full time ss.

  117. pat April 25th, 2013 at 11:48 am

    “….as far as position players go I would rather watch Bernie, Jeet, Posada than the homegrown position players beyond Cano. I like Gardy, Cervy, Nunez but it is not even close.”

    Then it’s a personal preference and not about not having homegrown players to root for. This team is almost 50% homegrown right now.

  118. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 11:49 am

    ac1, I am a fan of Nunie’s and am also very happy for Cervy, but that doesn’t mean I am going to travel great distances to see them play with Francisco, Boesch et al in the mix. It is a huge financial and time commitment to go to these games now that I no longer live on the UWS, so I will bide my time and pick my spots. As for Gardy he is a streaky player, so hopefully, he gets on roll. We need for him to be productive.

    As for your 2014 team of OF: Austin/Heathcott/Flores/Wells. Good luck. If we have one of those 3 youngsters in the OF, I will be thrilled.

  119. Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 11:49 am

    they are not the martyrs of some inevitable state of entropy that visits “all teams eventually.”

    —————————–

    Yeah, I agree here.

    Winning consistently is not easy in any respect… but there are franchises that do it and do it well precisely because of FOs committed to a process.

  120. ac1 April 25th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    As for your 2014 team of OF: Austin/Heathcott/Flores/Wells. Good luck. If we have one of those 3 youngsters in the OF, I will be thrilled.
    __

    I know this is WAYYYYY too out of the box for the Yankees.
    Which is why we need someone who knows how to handle the youth….

    Would that team of 25 not get fans in the stands?
    I know i would go!

  121. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    pat, your technicality doesn’t speak to the reality of elite homegrowns vs. non elite ones re: position players. But you already get that I am sure. Andy Phillips was also home grown, but I wouldn’t be inspired to go see the equivalent of 8 Andy Phillips in the field.

  122. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Doreen April 25th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    JAP -

    No way would I expect any pitcher to develop any pitch overnight. But I’ve read that it isn’t as easy to develop, and was just suggesting that perhaps the Rays have hit on some facet of a pitcher’s makeup that allows them to see that they would have a fairly easy time of it (perhaps they already have a good one at a young age or there’s some mechanical aspect – I don’t know, I’m really conjecturing here), and then they sign those pitchers and really work on developing that pitch to perfection.
    ///

    Right, it’s a “feel” pitch and if you don’t have that feel you’re not going to trust throwing that pitch, and if you can’t disguise that it’s coming (armspeed) then its going to be a BP pitch. Also, if you stick a SP in development in the bullpen, he’s not going to throw it and you need live batters to react to it to practice it, so “working on it” in the BP doesn’t really work.

    But we have system guys who have a changeup in their arsenal, and like I said, Jo-Ram, Manny, Dellin all have a true weapon change.

  123. Shame Spencer April 25th, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Sads this way :arrow:

  124. yankeefeminista April 25th, 2013 at 11:56 am

    ac1, Oh, I’ll go to games eventually, just more picking my spots this year, especially with recovering from a broken ankle, but this team doesn’t exactly inspire. But yeah, I would think fans would be energized by an infusion of one young elite OF.

  125. Bo knows April 25th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Bo, interesting to see if more reps help with that. I think those of us who attend a lot of live games have seen Gardner not react very well in CF at times in spite of his many gifts and plus plus D. I don’t know if reps will improve that or if he sometimes can’t react/read the ball off the bat quickly enough. Often his speed helps him to compensate.
    ————
    I was lucky enough to watch Devo up close and personal in AAA. It struck me at how difficult it was to pick up the ball off the bat compared to what I was used to. Tournaments and what have you. At the time I discounted his talent a bit until I saw it validated at the Majors level. He really was that good. As to reps – like anything else it certainly helps. Gardner’s biggest strengths are coming in on the ball and lateral angles. And yes you can’t teach speed.

  126. J. Alfred Prufrock April 25th, 2013 at 11:58 am

    Then it’s a personal preference and not about not having homegrown players to root for. This team is almost 50% homegrown right now.
    ///

    I don’t think this is my favorite flavor; all three of those guys have their uses (Cervelli/Gardner/Nunez) – Nunez has the most talent combined with playing SS, so that’s worth watching – but this isn’t the same as having AJax in CF, Montero behind the plate/DH, or Melky Cabrera in right.

    Two of those guys are already very good players, the other has an elite hit tool and power…. the sole criteria isn’t being “homegrown,” it’s being homegrown and having the kind of upside to be part of an enduring core of players.

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