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Minor league injury updates: Banuelos, Whitley, Gumbs, Garcia

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on May 08, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

A few minor league injury updates from Mark Newman…

Manny Banuelos
Rehabbing from Tommy John surgery
Still working his way back from last year’s surgery, Banuelos is doing long toss at 120 feet. Should be on the mound fairly soon. “Weeks, not months,” Newman said.

Chase Whitley
Oblique injury
The upper-level reliever came down with a sore oblique late in spring training. He’s throwing in extended spring training games. Newman estimated a week to 10 days before Whitley’s ready to be activated.

Angelo Gumbs
Sprained right middle finger on right hand
Landed on the disabled list after only eight games with Low-A Charleston. Gumbs is now playing in extended spring training. Newman said it’s going to be a “couple of weeks” before Gumbs is ready to be activated.

Adonis Garcia
Broken hamate bone
After suffering the injury in spring training, Garcia is now taking batting practice. He’s not in extended spring training games yet.

Ravel Santana
Lingering ankle injury
Playing in extended spring training. Santana is still nursing that ankle injury that happened late in 2011. He came back to play last season, but the ankle was never quite right, so the Yankees are moving slowly with him this year. “He was never 100 percent (last year),” Newman said. “He’s getting back closer to that.”

Ty Hensley
Hip labrum surgery
Last year’s first-round pick had hip surgery this spring. I’d previously read that Hensley could be back this season, but Newman said it’s likely that Hensley won’t pitch until 2014. “Spring training,” Newman said.

 

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comments

 

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621 Responses to “Minor league injury updates: Banuelos, Whitley, Gumbs, Garcia”

  1. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Manny is a fast healer. I have expected him to actually pitch in games this year, and sounds like the news is good. So, here’s hoping. Go, ManBan. Good stuff, Chad.

  2. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    I think the scary thing for the Yankees front office is if the Knicks, Islanders and Rangers somehow manage to make long playoff runs and the Yankees aren’t playing above their heads, attendance will become a huge issue May into June.

    And honestly, there’s not really much they can do at the moment other than shuffle a few deck chairs.

    Jacksquat said it best this morning when mentioning we’re missing a productive Youk, Cervelli, Nunez and can’t get Hafner at bats in NL parks. Those 4 guys did a lot of hitting/surprising early on.

    Having Nix and Nelson in the lineup every night is tough, but add Stewie to that group and if any other player struggles we’re in deep snit.

    I’m worried about this road trip because there’s no more breaks and we have to fly to Cleveland on Monday to play a makeup doubleheader before coming home on Tues night to play Seattle.

    They’re in a major grind now. Only good thing is the division is still for the taking so playing around .500 until we start getting a little more healthy will keep us afloat.

  3. hardwired7 May 8th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Cool video of Matt Kemp giving his hat, jersey and cleats to a disabled fan:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=efa_1367953208

  4. Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Re Post

    I’m really pleased with what Newman said about the Minors pitching approach. It’s like a breath of fresh air. The Patterson approach was long overdue. It’s more the TB model. All about developing secondary pitches. And I’m totally on board with that.

  5. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    Looks like offering $5 tix for almost every game is working to some extent. Too bad the season ticket holders are paying upwards of 7 times that for the same seats. No wonder so many called foul, and dumped their seasons.

  6. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    By the way,

    Nova may be a starter for the double header in Cleveland… It will depend on how he feels after his EST start

  7. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    YF,

    That’s something I don’t get… You should spoil your regular clients, not the occasional ones… The least they coulddo is match the price offered to those casual fans… That’s a bad business model

  8. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Ugh.. sitting in the last thread talking to myself…

    Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Boy, the big three of Tampa were sure struggling for a while there. Williams, Gamel and Sanchez have been non factors.

    ———————–

    Hope it doesn’t stay that way… I think Cash’s legacy is ultimately riding on those guys. I’m not sure he’ll be here to see the fruits of his labor regardless, but I think this crop could impact the view of him for a lot of people.

  9. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    And…

    Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    I just hope we win tonight so we can still take this series… I hate losing series where our pitching is better.

  10. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    The Santana injury should give us pause about Jeter… If a 20 year old kid has spent almost two years trying to get to 100%… What can we expect from an almost 40 year old man?

  11. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    Looks like offering $5 tix for almost every game is working to some extent. Too bad the season ticket holders are paying upwards of 7 times that for the same seats. No wonder so many called foul, and dumped their seasons.

    ———————-

    tucker posted an article from Bloomberg Times about Groupon offering 1/2 price tickets. If that keeps up I see another drop in STHs next year.

  12. Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    I’m hoping for a 4-4 split on these next eight games. Both KC and Cleveland are playing well.

  13. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:19 pm
    Ugh.. sitting in the last thread talking to myself…

    Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Boy, the big three of Tampa were sure struggling for a while there. Williams, Gamel and Sanchez have been non factors.

    ———————–

    Hope it doesn’t stay that way… I think Cash’s legacy is ultimately riding on those guys. I’m not sure he’ll be here to see the fruits of his labor regardless, but I think this crop could impact the view of him for a lot of people.

    ===========================

    Eventually they will start to hit….If Cashman is around by the time they are close to the bigs, you can bet they will be traded for a pitcher ;) That’s his legacy

  14. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    Can we revise Hensley’s signing bonus down again?

  15. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Good stuff on Heathcott and Ramirez: http://minormatterstrenton.blogspot.com/

    Luis, you’d think RE: season ticket holders… Hopefully, Nova feels OK; we are going to need a ton of pitchers over the next few weeks, even more if the run support isn’t there… Are you going to be in NY next week?

    Shame, QFT. My mailbox is bombarded every few hours with ticket deals, but no discount for STH’s. That’s loyalty…

  16. Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    So who were all the sure fire all stars that Cashman traded for pitchers? And if I hear another Melky (the masking agent specialist) I might start retching.

  17. blake May 8th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    “Blake, while you are correct in that draft position is obviously advantageous in selecting players, you are failing to acknowledge that an organization like the Cards and recently the Giants have done exactly that.”

    no I’m not….I said there were a few organizations that were good at it…..those are 2 of them.

  18. blake May 8th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    I still think Banuelos has a chance to be really really good.

  19. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    Kev-

    That’s kind of disappointing news.

    Other thing was he has an abnormality of some kind in his throwing shoulder.

    They said it will not affect his throwing though. Hope they are right on that.

  20. JobaTipsHisCap May 8th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Yankees’ offense, ouuuuch

  21. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Bo-

    With the level of depletion in the O a split would be welcome news.

  22. Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    With the level of depletion in the O a split would be welcome news.

    Amen

    Notice I said hoping for a split.

  23. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    blake-

    Luckily Man-Ban was very young when they signed him.

  24. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Bo-

    Duly noted.

  25. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    YF,

    I have reservations for the 12th… but it will depend on meeting I will have on friday… If I am not able to go, I will be there by June 3rd

    BO,

    It was joke

  26. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Eventually they will start to hit….If Cashman is around by the time they are close to the bigs, you can bet they will be traded for a pitcher ;) That’s his legacy

    ———————–

    I know you’re being facetious but in all seriousness, if Mason and Austin hit along with Sanchez and any one or two (ManBan? Campos? DePaula? Ramirez?) of our pitching prospects, this becomes a totally different conversation. The likelihood that happens? Very slim. But we’ve seen cores develop here before so I still hold out hope. There’s a lot riding on those kids.

  27. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    blake May 8th, 2013 at 12:28 pm
    I still think Banuelos has a chance to be really really good.
    ———-

    Definitely still could

  28. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:35 pm
    Eventually they will start to hit….If Cashman is around by the time they are close to the bigs, you can bet they will be traded for a pitcher That’s his legacy

    ———————–

    I know you’re being facetious but in all seriousness, if Mason and Austin hit along with Sanchez and any one or two (ManBan? Campos? DePaula? Ramirez?) of our pitching prospects, this becomes a totally different conversation. The likelihood that happens? Very slim. But we’ve seen cores develop here before so I still hold out hope. There’s a lot riding on those kids.

    =================================

    I actually think that more than one will pan out, probably three of four ( My bet is on Flores, Williams, Tyler, ManBan, Ramirez, Murphy, Heathcott and DePaula )… That’s a new core… And yes, if they fail we will be in a pickle.

  29. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    Axisa: I think we’re beyond the point of calling all these minor league pitching injuries back luck.

  30. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    If they pan out and they let them grow and become regulars ( with growing pains included ), then I will change my tune.

  31. Carly May 8th, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    So now after a few days on the road for work and coming back to my e-mail and twitter account, Baseball America and a paid site I belong to answered my question about Zolio Slmonte and his defense ( after being harassed about it earlier this week). They both indicated Zolio can play the field; won’t be gold glove but he can, only Espn did not get back to me. As I said earlier, it can get weird here sometimes, but as my Dad reminded me, you cannot control another person’s actions. Go Yanks tonight :)

  32. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    “Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Boy, the big three of Tampa were sure struggling for a while there. Williams, Gamel and Sanchez have been non factors.”

    It’s a month into the season. Gamel was killing the ball early, as was Sanchez. Catching also takes its toll, so you expect the ebbs and flows; Sanchez will pick it up again. And Mason I don’t worry about.
    _____
    Marc Topkin ?@TBTimes_Rays 17m
    #Jays Happ was released from Bayfront Medical Center around noon today.
    __
    Good news! Very scary moment. Bet Jennings is feeling some relief too.
    ___
    Luis, if you come, let me know if you want to take in a minor league game.

  33. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    Murph was my under the radar guy coming into this season. Love watching him play, and expect him to catch for us one day. However, Luis, no Sanchez on that list?

  34. Tackelberry May 8th, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    Meanwhile, Rob Refsnyder continues to rake. 3-4 today so far with 2 doubles and 2 rbis. His defense is still a work in progress as he continues to make the transiton back to 2nd base, but he hasn’t committed an error in the last 4 games I beleive. Gary Sanches is also 2-4 with 2 rbis, and Anderson Feliz 1-4 with 2 rbis, as he has also started to swing the bat better lately. Tampa leads 6-1 after 7. Shane Greene wth a solid outing.

    Scranton is in a rain delay, trailing 2-0 after 5. Graham Stoneburner pitching for Scranton.

  35. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    “expect him to catch for us one day”

    Who’s the manager for us on that day?

  36. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Luis, if you come, let me know if you want to take in a minor league game.

    ============================

    Not one, but several ! ;) It is very frustrating to be a prospect hugger and not being able to watch them :( I do get to see some of them down here, but just a few… The big club I can watch from here… So I’ll be more than happy to go Minor leaguing!!

  37. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    The 8 day lay off and the switch to third certainly didn’t help Feliz get comfortable early. Also he is a switchy, so sometimes it takes more time for the bat to come around from both sides.

  38. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 12:47 pm
    Murph was my under the radar guy coming into this season. Love watching him play, and expect him to catch for us one day. However, Luis, no Sanchez on that list?

    ==========================

    Oops! Gross overlook there… But to be honest, the little I saw of him at the plate, his swing has too many holes for my liking… Maybe he is too green still… Murphy OTOH, impressed me with his batting approach during ST in 2012

  39. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    Luis-

    Watch out for YF when you come.

    Don’t make her mad.

    She’ll tag you with her radar gun.

    And that will really, really hurt.

    :)

  40. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    LOL, 8??? I admire your optimism, luis!

  41. blake May 8th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    Rich in NJ says:
    May 8, 2013 at 12:40 pm
    Axisa: I think we’re beyond the point of calling all these minor league pitching injuries back luck.

    I think it’s called 2013 baseball…..nobody seems to know how the heck to keep pitchers from gettin hurt.

  42. blake May 8th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Susie swears it’s due to too many weights and too tight of muscles and you know she might be right…..

  43. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    YF,

    In any case, I need to see them more… it is very tough to really makeup your mind when the only thing at your disposal are a few random videos and posts from the sites I frequent ( I think I told you about my PP experience with Matt De Salvo )… That’s why I defend more forcefully does that I really get to watch ( like Flores and Montero )… I always rely on your takes on them though, even more than the “experts” of the media. ;)

  44. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    luis, then you had better come when the kiddies are in town! :) Also Staten Island’s season starts on June 17th…

    MTU, I will be putting Luis to work, so he may be the one holding the radar gun. ;)

  45. luis May 8th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Not “does” but “those” sorry

  46. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    I’m hoping for:

    1 of Sanchez/Murphy
    2 of Mason/Austin/Heathcott/Flores
    2 of ManBan/Campos/DePaula/Ramirez/Turley

    And I thought that was optimistic!

    I do think we can fill out the pen pretty well with all the arms in the system, I’m just hoping we can squeeze 2 starters out of the current stock.

    My other hope is that someone starts playing Gumbs at SS or that we can somehow see Gumbs and Cano up the middle. That would be a really strong middle if Sanchez/Murphy and Mason also come along.

  47. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    “Susie swears it’s due to too many weights and too tight of muscles and you know she might be right…..”

    Yep, I think they should do yoga, as I have been saying. Being too muscle bound and lacking elongated muscles isn’t good for pitchers.

  48. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    blake

    Maybe, but I don’t view Axisa as a pessimist, so I thought his concern is noteworthy.

    With Hensley in particular, I wonder if there is any research showing that an abnormality in one joint correlates with one in another.

    In any case, it’s why I believe that you don’t overpay for young pitchers in trades.

  49. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    YF-

    In that case you better not make him mad.

    :)

  50. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    luis, I know. The vids are nice, but nothing like seeing a player live, especially the pitchers. It is a gift to have Trenton and SI within an hour of me. SWB is a little far, but I have to make that trip sometime soon. I just can’t see what I need to see on milb-tv, although I am not complaining.

  51. luis May 8th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
    LOL, 8??? I admire your optimism, luis!

    ================================

    I think there are more than 8 potentially… If they let them grow and have patience, I bet that at least three or four make it.

    I am always an optimist! Hope is the last thing you should lose ;)

  52. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Maybe, but I don’t view Axisa as a pessimist, so I thought his concern is noteworthy.”

    Oh yea I agree…..it’s just the fixing it part that isn’t easy

  53. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Thanks, luis, btw. ;) I tend to pay the most attention to pitching. Like I said, I make my schedule around the pitching rotations. If you come, we will go see JRam for sure.

  54. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    “With Hensley in particular, I wonder if there is any research showing that an abnormality in one joint correlates with one in another.”

    The shoulder bones connected to the……hip bone ;)

  55. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Maybe thy should hire mike Marshall

  56. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    @JimmyTraina

    Late addition to AM Hot Clicks: Yankees P @PhilHughes65 is our new NHL Playoff contributor. http://bit.ly/18YjeYp

  57. luis May 8th, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    MTU May 8th, 2013 at 1:02 pm
    YF-

    In that case you better not make him mad.

    ===========================

    Nah!! First it takes a lot to make me mad, second I have mellowed with the years!! ;)

  58. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Rich-

    I think we both agree that young arms are extremely vulnerable.

    A preventive injury specialist like a Mike Marshall, or even consulting w. Dr. Andrews, etc. could be a worthwhile investment.

  59. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Yeah, more yoga and Pilates for these guys would go a long way. That ish is no joke.

  60. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    And ballet.

    After all, it helped Papelbon.

    :)

  61. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    MTU, again would love to be a fly on the wall, and observe how we evaluate, evolve, and try to protect our young arms. There was a really good article on the Rays’ approach to pitching a while back; very interesting. I’ll link it if I can find it.

  62. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    But they could do little to cure his fish face.

    And extreme pucker.

    :(

  63. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    One day maybe we will understand genetics enough to have a screening before draft day ….that might be the biggest factor injuries

  64. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    “I am always an optimist! Hope is the last thing you should lose ”

    Absolutely!

  65. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    YF-

    I wouldn’t mind seeing it. Thanks.

    I don’t know if the Yankees do baseline strength testing but things like that are now be put into practice more and more by some Teams.

  66. luis May 8th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:05 pm
    Thanks, luis, btw. I tend to pay the most attention to pitching. Like I said, I make my schedule around the pitching rotations. If you come, we will go see JRam for sure.

    ==================================

    That’s a kid I am really intrigued to see… I didn’t watch him in ST ( too busy )… I was a pitcher so I like that particular aspect of the game the most… Although I was good with the bat too

  67. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    I’d like to see Joba do yoga.

  68. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    blake, MTU

    Any kinesiologist would be a good start.

  69. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Got to go.

    Time to get some much needed exercise.

    Catch you all later.

  70. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    @AnthonyMcCarron: During complex BP, Michael Pineda’s white SUV got hit by a homer: ball went right through the rear right window.

  71. luis May 8th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
    I’m hoping for:

    1 of Sanchez/Murphy
    2 of Mason/Austin/Heathcott/Flores
    2 of ManBan/Campos/DePaula/Ramirez/Turley

    And I thought that was optimistic!

    =================================

    I think Murphy makes it ( need to see more of Sanchez )… Our outfield will be Flores LF/ Williams or Heatcott CF / Austin RF. The odd man out will be traded ( I don’t know at this point in time which one )… Manban if healthy makes it… Don’t really know about the rest, but only hear great things about them… DePaula and Ramirez look to be the best of that lot according to what I read

  72. pat May 8th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Some of the Yankees used to take yoga classes with the same instructor I did. Giants to. She had developed a special program for professional athletes.

  73. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    blake, re: Joba–just for the fun of it? He’s actually pretty agile considering….

    I think yoga would really help Hughes to lengthen his stride, and regain some of that leg drive he used to have.

  74. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    I hope that’s the last time that Pineda is the victim of a HR.

  75. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    What Papelbon was doing was…… not ballet. That was horrifying.

    Swimming and rowing are two other forms of exercise these guys could benefit from. I definitely think there’s something to the theory about pumping too much iron. And a big reason it could be happening is because kids in HS are trying to build muscle.

    Also, as others have pointed out, kids are pitching year round (especially in warm climate weather) when in the past that wasn’t the case….

  76. luis May 8th, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    Got to go guys…Later

  77. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    “blake, re: Joba–just for the fun of it? He’s actually pretty agile considering….”

    Yea….he’s fairly agile but I kinda doubt he’s all that bendy

  78. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    pat, yes, I remember. I was going to mention the football Giants. They all did yoga way back when. Wonder how many teams still actually recommend it.

  79. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    Yoga could benefit anybody…..

  80. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    blake, I bet Joba could become “bendy.” You ever see some of those kind of weird body-shaped Indian yogi’s? When you see them out of yoga poses they look downright dowdy, but then you seem them stand in these extraordinary poses that would make any Joe Average person require traction. lol.

  81. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    Catch you later, Luis and MTU. MTU, I will see if I can find the article.

  82. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Rich, I wouldn’t hold your breath. Especially not at NYS.

  83. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    I need to start Yoga again….I felt great when I was doing it

  84. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    I suspect a regular regimen of yoga could significantly reduce injuries. I also feel like muscle man gym rat training is dangerous to all sports. These guys should be doing CrossFit because those types of exercises work within a body’s natural motions. The bench press, for example is a very unnatural motion whereas pullups, dips, lunges and bunny hops are quite natural. Squats and deadlifts are also natural. Power clean and press… A lot of these athletes are influenced by uneducated muscle heads in the sport and through friends.

  85. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    blake, me too. Too much sitting at the computer. I blame Lohud Romine.

  86. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    I would think that overexposure to idiot personal trainers and gym rats is more prevalent in the minor leagues where there are younger machismo know-it-all types. These guys taking all these designer supplements and adding some power or MPH can’t stay healthy.

  87. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    P90x is a great workout for anybody but I think it’s really good for athletes in particular…..

  88. ac1 May 8th, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    blake, me too. Too much sitting at the computer. I blame Lohud Romine.
    ____

    I stubbed my toe last night and instinctively yelled, “Damnit Romine!”

  89. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    Insanity is good too I’ve heard but I haven’t tried it

  90. blake May 8th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    Romine is the cause of all problems

  91. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    “Rich, I wouldn’t hold your breath. Especially not at NYS.”

    See, I am an optimist!

  92. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    Seriously, how is this manager ever going to develop the next wave if he is giving Romine, defensive catching specialist personified, almost no PT over Chris “Not a Starter” Stewart?

  93. ac1 May 8th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Seriously, how is this manager ever going to develop the next wave if he is giving Romine, defensive catching specialist personified, almost no PT over Chris “Not a Starter” Stewart?
    __

    This worries me about ALL of our non-pitching prospects. Who is to say that when Gary Sanchez appears to be ready, they don’t hold him back? I mean they traded Montero and are ruining Romine too….

    They are also TERRIBLE at developing successful Infild prospects. Half of them dont even have a set position not that we will ever see 95% of them anyway.

  94. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

    LOL, Romine will get a start one of these days, and then he can legitimately be blamed for something again, like Andy not having his cutter. :roll:

    Rich, I knew that. ;)

  95. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Seriously, how is this manager ever going to develop the next wave if he is giving Romine, defensive catching specialist personified, almost no PT over Chris “Not a Starter” Stewart?

    ——————–

    With the age of this team and the aptitude for signing guys that will most assuredly get hurt, I think we’re relying on people breaking limbs, tearing muscles, etc lol.

  96. pat May 8th, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    JeffPassan
    Exclusive: Y! Sports discovers what Clay Buchholz had on his arm. And you’ll never guess what it was: http://yhoo.it/12VHEyv

    Ribbit!

  97. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    SPF now means Scoring Prevention Formula?

  98. Tackelberry May 8th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Romine will probably start tommorrow, since it is a day game after a night game.

  99. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    He and the pitcher better be perfect if he hopes to get another start.

  100. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    “Most guys are a tad more discreet about it,” one National League pitcher said, “rather than put the rosin on your arm 10 times over the course of an outing.”

    ————————

    LOL, thanks for sharing pat, as always!

  101. blake May 8th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Jayson Stark ?@jaysonst 4m
    Halladay saying he’ll have a bone spur removed from his shoulder. Doctors told him thought they “could turn clock back 2 or 3 years for me”

  102. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    pat, thanks for the link. Good stuff that sunscreen!

    Also there was a link from that article to this Matt Kemp article. Very moving and with video.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/v.....32881.html

  103. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    That Halladay scenario is obviously the best news he could have heard, by far, even if the clock isn’t turned back very far.

  104. jacksquat May 8th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    luis May 8th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    That’s a kid I am really intrigued to see… I didn’t watch him in ST ( too busy )… I was a pitcher so I like that particular aspect of the game the most… Although I was good with the bat too

    Then you really missed something. Very impressive. He definitely could make it to AAA this year, perhaps by mid-season.

  105. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Hopefully, good news for Halladay.

  106. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    @MLB

    Roy Halladay to undergo surgery on right shoulder for bone spurs, partially torn rotator cuff and frayed labrum. No timetable for return.

  107. jacksquat May 8th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    @MLB

    Roy Halladay to undergo surgery on right shoulder for bone spurs, partially torn rotator cuff and frayed labrum. No timetable for return.

    This is quite a bit different than just bone spurs…

  108. blake May 8th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    I’m sure Halladay is glad to see there is a cause here….but I doubt he pitches this year still.

  109. blake May 8th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    yea if there is additional stuff like frayed laburm and paritally torn cuff then he’s not pitching this year

  110. 86w183 May 8th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Half the people here are bound to blame Cashman for Halladay needing shoulder surgery.The Yanks know NOTHING about keeping other teams’ pitchers healthy.

  111. comnsnse May 8th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    Blake, I read your original response on the previous thread to my comment.

    And yes there are a few organizations who have managed to do well in the drafts, the point being we are not one of them.

    More to the point is my more comprehensive view of the organization which I offered on that last thread.

    Are you suggesting this organization has done a credible job of drafting, international signings, trades FA’ signings over the last decade?

    From what I see on these threads most of the posts simply express “maybes, could be’s and I hope so’s”!

    Judgements can only be made on the basis of proven MLB players who have shown consistency for at least several years.

  112. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    “Half the people here are bound to blame Cashman for Halladay needing shoulder surgery”

    Right, because in the absence of nonsensical criticism, no one would have any basis for a rational ones.

  113. blake May 8th, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    “Are you suggesting this organization has done a credible job of drafting, international signings, trades FA’ signings over the last decade?”

    I think they could have done better…..you can always do better….however they have a top 15 farm system now despite never picking better than the back of the draft and they have made the playoffs 15 of the last 16 years.

    You can always be better…..but there are a lot of teams that do it worse than the Yankees also. The Cardinals and Giants are two of the better ran organizations in baseball…..the Yanks need to strive to be like them on a bigger scale.

    even if you look at the Giants….Lincecum and Bumgardner were taken in the draft at positions where the Yankees never pick…..Cain was taken 25th….Yanks never draft that high either really…..

    The Yanks have done ok IMO given that they never get a chance at the very best talent in the draft…..and they haven’t for almost 2 decades.

  114. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    “I think they could have done better…..you can always do better….however they have a top 15 farm system now despite never picking better than the back of the draft and they have made the playoffs 15 of the last 16 years.”

    They bring talent in, their problem is an ability and a willingness to integrate it on to the ML roster, except for relievers.

  115. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    You can always be better….

    —————————

    And this is the approach we should all take in both life and baseball.. :D

  116. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    I disagree with Axisa on this:

    “Sanchez is probably the most indispensable since he’s a catcher and the best prospect of the bunch, but he shouldn’t stand in the way of a significant upgrade to the big league roster in my opinion. ”

    It would have to be some ridiculous upgrade, like Harper or Trout or their first born.

  117. Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    YF and Blake

    Another vote for yoga. All it is is stretching which aligns and adds flexion to your spine and hips. As to pumping iron, I’m with the old guys. Long muscles. Iron pumping contracts muscles which is anathema to a throwing motion.

    The other is pumping iron destroys stamina and most injuries occur with tired arms. Modern athletes do no physical labor, too specialized. When you’re a ten year old hauling a bale of hay that outweighs you, you learn to use your whole body. Back then using your lower body was a non issue. Hell, you developed prehensile toes.

  118. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    It really could also be closely related to pitching year round… muscles need a break. The pitching motion itself tears them, so you need an off period to allow them to fully heal and strengthen.

  119. blake May 8th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    lets take some of the best starters in baseball and see where they were drafted.

    Verlander: 1st round (2nd overall).
    Strasburg: 1st round (1st overall)
    Price : 1st round (1st overall).
    Harvey: 1st round (7th overall)
    Bumgardner: 1st round (8th overall)
    Wainwright: 1st round (25th overall).
    Gio: 1st round (38th overall).
    Zimmerman: 2nd round
    Greinke: 1st round (6th overall).
    Cain: 1st round (25h overall).
    Kershaw: 1st round (7th overall).

    my point is that of all these guys….the Yanks only had a chance to sign or draft a couple…..many of the very best pitchers the Yanks never had a shot at.

  120. Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Back when, one of the old guys told us. You have to be centered. All power comes from the Belly Button. Well we ran around spouting “Belly Buttons”. Now I think he was ahead of his time.

  121. hardwired7 May 8th, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Sadly, that sounds like the death knell for Halladay’s career. Throwing a baseball really is an unnatural motion.

  122. jacksquat May 8th, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Lots of players do “core training” these days, it’s not all just lifting weights.

  123. hardwired7 May 8th, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Throwing sidearm really makes the most sense. It worked for Walter Johnson, the greatest pitcher of all time.

  124. joecembrale May 8th, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    There were a lot of complete games in that right arm……….

  125. igotid88 May 8th, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Makes sense Halladay will need surgery. You can’t just lose it like that

  126. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    “my point is that of all these guys….the Yanks only had a chance to sign or draft a couple…..many of the very best pitchers the Yanks never had a shot at.”

    They could have, for example, drafted Moore, or Cobb, or Gio, or Shields and have been in a much better position than they are today (if they could have developed them, including the patience to integrate them on to the ML roster for a sustained period).

    Alternatively, did they maximize the return of Hughes, IPK, and Joba as starters, since they were able to bring them in to the system, and all have or had significant ability.

    I don’t think the answer is yes.

  127. igotid88 May 8th, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    Montero with a monster shot

  128. joecembrale May 8th, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    With Yankee prospects, when we were talking up donier navarro and humberto sanchez, it was Wang and Cano. When we talk up Brackman and Bentances, its Nova and Phelps. That’s why I am holding out hope for Preston Claiborne and Vidal Nuno.

  129. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    Halladay is cooked. I hope the Phillies plummet so we can get Michael Young in here. He’s not going to rescue the offense like Headley could but he will help keep the offense afloat.

  130. igotid88 May 8th, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    Down and in and went the other way with it

  131. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    Sanchez need TJ surgery at the time of the trade. I haven’t given up hope on the two remaining B’s.

  132. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    Bustero has a new obsession.

  133. joecembrale May 8th, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 2:49 pm
    Halladay is cooked. I hope the Phillies plummet so we can get Michael Young in here. He’s not going to rescue the offense like Headley could but he will help keep the offense afloat.

    Love the idea of Young, plays three IF positions is 36 but that is not a problem. He is a pro and an upgrade, and not under contract for next year. As far as Headly, I am very suspicious of NL talent, especially NL West talent that comes here and under perfroms (Kuroda being a lone exception).

  134. Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Yep, 240 mil team. That’s like a quarter of a billion Hell, some countries have smaller budgets.

  135. 86w183 May 8th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Great list, Blake… curious which if any the Yanks did have a chance to draft and who they chose instead.

    My biggest driticism of their drafting has been the overreliance on college players with relaitvely low “up sides”. Pete O’Brien, Jeremy Bleich, Brett Gardner, Rob Segedin and Caleb Cotham just to name a few.

    I saw all of them in college and didn’t see a top flight MLB prospect in the bunch.

    Last year’s # 8 Taylor Dugas and 2011 # 8 Phil Wetherell too.

  136. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    I’ll take Young if the Phillies will accept Wells or Youk or Ichiro.

  137. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 2:54 pm

    I have given up hope on Betances. His minor league numbers are atrocious across the board. He is 25. He would be lucky to have the career Daniel Cabrera had.

  138. joecembrale May 8th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 2:50 pm
    Sanchez need TJ surgery at the time of the trade. I haven’t given up hope on the two remaining B’s.

    Shouldn’t give up, but the more we manage guys, well you know. The other problem I see with these pitch count guys is they have trouble developing that instinct and skill to get out of jams and being able to figure things out CC, ANdy and Kuroda do. I know, these guys are just kids, but at some point you got to let them loose.

  139. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    I agree w HW.

    Bad news for Roy IMO.

    Especially at his age.

    The torn rotator and labrum are the problems.

    2 things in Halladay’s favor are that he has a great assortment of stuff that moves, and he is a very hard worker.

    Maybe he can make it work because of that.

    Velowise I’d be surprised if he can top 90 ever again. If that much.

    Might be the end of one the best pitchers in recent years.

    Guy was a throwback to the old days of complete games.

    I wish him only the very best.

  140. Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    Down and in and went the other way with it
    —————
    That should be good for forty posts and ten “Fire Cashmans”.

    Two so far, and counting.

  141. joecembrale May 8th, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 2:54 pm
    I have given up hope on Betances. His minor league numbers are atrocious across the board. He is 25. He would be lucky to have the career Daniel Cabrera had.

    Would the Phillies take him for Michael Young?

  142. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    joecembrale

    Although Cashman stayed with Nardi Contreras a crazy long time (is that a rational criticism of him?) I think we may seem some improved development with Patterson.

  143. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    As someone who powerlifts so I can still eat pizza, ice cream or pasta once a week and have an occasional drink, I concur that baseball players muscling up doesn’t make sense. I do a program called Wendler 5-3-1 which has squats, deadlifts, etc. as the main focus of the program and my legs are always tight. I have to spend a lot of time foam rolling them just to get the aches and pains and tightness out.

    I can see maybe a catcher or corner IF/OF working out this way if they feel better playing with more strength, but it makes no sense to me when pitchers are pumping iron.

    I think if these guys are lifting the Olympic bar above their heads with 200 pounds on it in an explosive way like my program calls for, it’s no small wonder they are getting hurt. While I’m strong, I’m oddly fragile if my form is off even a little bit. The slightest compromise in form usually results in pain or soreness.

    The other thing I wonder is was pitching this injury laden prior to PED’s being common. Someone should go back to the 80′s and see if the injury levels are more common to that period vs. the PED years.

    The uptick could just be a sign that PED’s prevented injuries and without them, guys are getting hurt at a more normal rate again.

  144. Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Oh, I think we can fairly rake on Cashman and his loyalty to Contreras. The guy was the CB guru. Maintenance was a bithch.

  145. blake May 8th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    “They could have, for example, drafted Moore, or Cobb, or Gio, or Shields and have been in a much better position than they are today (if they could have developed them, including the patience to integrate them on to the ML roster for a sustained period).”

    sure….but I doubt the Rays even knew what they had in Moore for example who was a good prospect but became elite when his velo jumped. The Rays have done a great job of finding these guys and developing them…..but how much of it was just good fortune and how much their system? I guess we shall find out in the coming years.

    The Yanks do need to get better at developing pitching…..I’m not saying they don’t…..however what I am saying is that many organizations are getting the no brainers like Verlander that they just have to stay out of their way and let pitch and the Yanks never get those guys.

    Finding diamonds in the rough and developing them isn’t really a predictable way to build a farm system……

  146. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    I doubt it. He’s not a real prospect. I think Michael Young is worth a real prospect to many GM’s out there. Maybe they would take Gardner for him.

  147. igotid88 May 8th, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    Halladay is good enough to pitch another 2 or 3 years after the surgery

  148. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    Rich-

    I tend to agree with you on a couple of things.

    Not so much bad drafting as what follows afterwards.

    An expedient and inconsistent approach except in rare cases.

    I don’t know if you saw my back and forth with MG this morning ?

    It pertained to Newman. I see him as big part of the problem.

    Happy they signed Patterson and reassigned Contreras. That should help.

    I also agree that they are still reluctant to integrate their youthful players.

    In the age of 189, assuming it’s for real, they need to be better at both aspects.

  149. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    “Great list, Blake… curious which if any the Yanks did have a chance to draft and who they chose instead.”

    I could look up who they drafted instead but it’d take forever….but here is a list of good pitchers the Yanks theoretically could have drafterd.

    Zimmerman (2nd round)
    Gio (1st round, 38th overall).
    Matt Moore (8th round).
    Shields (16th round).
    Lester (2nd round).
    Buttholtz (1st round , 42nd overall).

    more guys they couldn’t have.

    Jerad Weaver (1st round, 12th overall).
    Mike Minor (1st round , 7th overall).
    RA Dickey ! (1st round 18th overall).

    there are just tons of good pitchers the Yanks never even had a shot at.

  150. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    As much as I want to zap the Yankees for letting the late round players the Rays are scoring on in the draft pass them by, I can’t. Every team in the league passed on those guys for several rounds including the Rays.

    Clearly, they have a good idea of the guys they want to draft throughout the draft and they stick to that and get lucky in the late rounds.

    But if they knew Matt Moore was going to be this good, he’d have been a 1st round pick, not 8th round (I think).

    That being said, the Yankees reaching in the 1st round for longshots who would sign cheap has hamstrung this team. Bichette and Culver are no closer to the majors than guys they draft this year and next.

    And Hensley had injury issues prior to the draft hence why he fell.

    The Brackman philosophy of drafting damaged goods that fell to the bottom of the round because of health concerns only paid off with Joba, who was injured at the time of the draft or before it. But considering how they used Joba, drafting an injured guy in the early rounds to be a middle reliever doesn’t make much sense either.

  151. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    I wanted Young last off season… for what the Phillies gave up for him, I was pretty surprised the Yankees never made a play and instead went with a very expensive Youk.

  152. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    88-

    Not likely after that type of injury at his stage of the game.

    Those spurs probably tore up his rotator pretty good.

    :(

  153. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Zimmerman (2nd round)
    Gio (1st round, 38th overall).
    Matt Moore (8th round).
    Shields (16th round).
    Lester (2nd round).
    Buttholtz (1st round , 42nd overall)

    ________________

    It’s really such a small list spread out over so many years with so many hundreds or thousands of players surrounding this exclusive sample. It’s totally unrealistic to think the Yankees can amass good pitching through the draft let alone develop it.

    They really need to go hog wild with international free agents but other teams have been brought up to speed scouting latin american players and overseas talent.

    That’s why CC makes what he makes and Pineda targeted and traded for with our top prospect.

  154. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    “That being said, the Yankees reaching in the 1st round for longshots who would sign cheap has hamstrung this team. Bichette and Culver are no closer to the majors than guys they draft this year and next.”

    agree totally…..I think they tried to outsmart the room with both of those picks. They passed on better players and went with signability…..or positional need I guess……but either way those guys weren’t the best available.

  155. Bo knows May 8th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    I can see maybe a catcher or corner IF/OF working out this way if they feel better playing with more strength, but it makes no sense to me when pitchers are pumping iron.
    ———
    But all those positions require quickness and agility. You lose that with a iron regimen. Montero at seventeen looked like Hercules Unchained. Okay, probably some foreign substance.

    If I saw these players running with hand and ankle weights, I’d be on board. Oh, for fingertip pushups. Hated them and so did my kids.

  156. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    (Good points, MTU, no I missed the MG exchange. Newman has been here forever with suboptimal results.)

    blake

    They didn’t have to actually know what would happen, as long as they knew what could happen, if not with Moore and Cobb, then with other guys they drafted over a given time horizon.

    IOW, they draft pitching prospects, as Doreen recently linked, who have an aptitude to learn or develop a change in addition to a fastball.

    And their developmental track record strongly suggests that their method works.

    That’s what’s has been missing with the Yankees.

    So I don’t think it’s all good fortune v. misfortune. I think, at least in part, is the result of a plan.

    Part of it probably the Yankees unwillingness to stick with young starters at the ML level.

    I don’t think it’s the fans that are impatient, I think it’s the owner.

    But the record of development is still on them.

  157. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    “They really need to go hog wild with international free agents but other teams have been brought up to speed scouting latin american players and overseas talent.”

    they can’t now…..the stupid rules have it to where you lose draft picks if you go over internationally. If Felix Hernandez comes along then maybe they should just say screw it and sign him anyway…..aside from that it’s risky.

  158. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    blake,

    I can get behind the gamble of a Henlsey/Brackman longshot more than a guy who they are picking in the 1st round who has no business being there.

    But still, those 2 picks plus Gerit Cole going back to college took a hit on the system and we’re seeing the gaps in it right now.

  159. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    The Yankees need to be top notch at self-scouting.

    They need to decide which of their MiLB guys are for trade and which are keepers.

    For example, we do not need to keep all 4 MiLB OF prospects.

    Pick the 2 who are most likely to be successful and trade the other 2.

    Some MiLB guys are designed to resupply the ML club and others are drafted merely to be traded for other players who can.

    That is a sensible policy IMO. It’s balanced and productive.

    Trying to keep all these MiLB guys because we’re scared to trade them is folly to me.

    As much folly as trading too many of them.

  160. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    Rays got Matt Moore because Jack Powell wouldn’t have it any other way. He was one of the few scouts that saw Moore multiple times and believed he could be one heckuva pitcher. Even in his draft year, most scouts didn’t even know who Matt Moore was.

  161. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    G. Love

    The Cole thing was a killer, and you’re right, Hensley and Brackman have/had 1st round talent. Culver and Bichette didn’t have anything close.

  162. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    Rich,

    I agree that the Rays have a good system in place and that they have created some of their good fortune…..although their best pitcher was taken #1 overall ;)

  163. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    “I can get behind the gamble of a Henlsey/Brackman longshot more than a guy who they are picking in the 1st round who has no business being there.”

    me too….I liked the Henlsey pick fine and even if he busts at least they took a shot on a guy that was worthy of that draft spot.

  164. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Rich-

    I agree with your 3:11 post to blake.

    It’s not who we are selecting as much as it what we do with them afterwards.

    The Farm is improving but is the development process ?

    And the patience level ?

    Those are things I think the jury is still out on.

    Ramirez, DePaula, and Banuelos will tell us where we stand now.

  165. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Brackman was always high risk and everyone knew that. I would rather draft the high risk pitcher with the higher ceiling that falls or is available late in a round than the journeyman type who has a higher floor but much less upside.

  166. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Rich,

    You add up those 5 1st round picks, Hensley, Cole, Culver, Bichette, Brackman & you start to understand why this team needs veteran band aids and the system is never top heavy.

    The picks we’re supposed to rely on to restock the major league team are missing and we’re hitting on late rounders who take forever to develop and often times show the higher they get why they are late rounders.

    If an NFL team misses on 1st round picks as much as the Yankees have, they’re GM would be out to pasture by now.

    I’m not saying the hit rate is even remotely the same between NFL and MLB 1st rounders (it’s harder to get MLB 1st rounders to fullfill potential) but a lot of our picks don’t even hit the ground running or ever show why they were 1st rounders. Something’s broken in the evaluation process.

  167. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Trying to keep all these MiLB guys because we’re scared to trade them is folly to me.

    ___________________

    Very true MTU. That was my greatest criticism of Cashman and the front office before the Montero trade. Cashman and company would ride out prospects until complete bust mode. Seldom did they take a bold stance and trade a player. They need to be able to invest confidence in the right guys and recover value the others. The problem was they were investing confidence in every guy and not taking any calculated risks. And they would say things like “not going to make a trade for the sake of making a trade” That was code for, “we don’t have a good read on our guys and could make a huge mistake if we trade the wrong one”.

  168. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    “Rays got Matt Moore because Jack Powell wouldn’t have it any other way. He was one of the few scouts that saw Moore multiple times and believed he could be one heckuva pitcher. Even in his draft year, most scouts didn’t even know who Matt Moore was.”

    yea some guys just fall through the cracks…..the Yanks were one of only 2 teams reportedly very high on Mike Trout…..unfortunately the other picked ahead of them.

    Again I’m not saying the Yanks don’t need to improve their scouting, and their development….and everything (they are going to have to under the new rules)……it’s just that it’s not that easy when you never have access to the very best players in the draft.

    Prospects bust all the time…..and when you cut out the top talent which is less likely to bust and have to build your system on the riskier guys taken later and diamonds in the rough it’s much much harder to do.

  169. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    YF-

    Sounds like we ought to have Powell.

    ;)

    I thought our Mexican scout did a great job for us.

    More like him too.

  170. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    In fact, Jesus Montero remains the only example of selling high on a prospect that I can think of. Austin Jackson maybe. All the rest that the FO hugged were sold off too late or kept to the point where they lost all value.

    It’s extremely important that the Yanks learn to evaluate who to keep and who to sell high on.

  171. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    “If an NFL team misses on 1st round picks as much as the Yankees have, they’re GM would be out to pasture by now.”

    you know who has more wins than any 1st round pick ever for the Yankees?

  172. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Buster-

    We’re on the same page on that point.

    Keep the best. Trade the rest.

    I’m on record as wanting to trade Heathcott for example while he still has value.

    Just cause I do not think he’ll stay healthy. He’s too aggressive.

    It’s his nature. Thinks baseball is football.

  173. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    “In fact, Jesus Montero remains the only example of selling high on a prospect that I can think of. Austin Jackson maybe. All the rest that the FO hugged were sold off too late or kept to the point where they lost all value.”

    the proper move would have been to sign Yu Darvish and keep Montero…..

  174. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    MTU,

    I think we fired the Mexican scout over him being involved in some money kickback scandal. He was the one who found Aceves, who quite honestly I wish we could get our hands on as I think our vets would get him in check.

  175. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    The Yanks best shot at getting a young stud pitcher is for another Jose Fernandez to come along and they just overwhelm him with $$ and say screw the penalties……they can’t get guys like that in the draft without just plain getting lucky.

  176. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    No the proper move would have been to sell high on Montero and use him to acquire Gio Gonzalez and save the 100 M earmarked for Darvish.

  177. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    Who did Cash hug in the past who was an elite prospect besides Hughes? We really didn’t have many elite prospects.

    Turley would be a nice story if he can continue to progress; 50th rounder with an uptick last year, a lefty touching 94-95 with a decent change and curveball.

    MTU, Powell also found Bautista in the 20th round, not that it did the Pirates much good.

  178. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    “No the proper move would have been to sell high on Montero and use him to acquire Gio Gonzalez and save the 100 M earmarked for Darvish.”

    Darvish + Montero > Gio.

    The Yankees should never trade their best prospects for things they can buy…..that’s what makes them the Yankees. Maybe they could have used Montero to get Justin Upton…..or maybe they could have used him to get somebody else…..or maybe he could be platooning with Overbay right now.

  179. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    G. Love-

    I think it was a Dominican guy that got the axe.

    I could be wrong.

    His name was Lee something-or-other I think. Maybe Stegman ?

    He got us Banuelos, Pena, Aceves, and the 1st basman we didn’t use who had massive power.

    I belive he was promoted but I have no idea where he is right now.

    What is Hendry doing for us ? Any idea ?

  180. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    “No the proper move would have been to sell high on Montero and use him to acquire Gio Gonzalez and save the 100 M earmarked for Darvish.”

    Reasonable.

  181. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    MTU,

    It will be interesting to see if they sell high on one of the 4 minor league outfielders. I feel like they should sign Choo in the off season and trade 2 of those outfielders. On the question of who out of Heathcott, Williams, Austin and Flores I’d say just make sure you sell high. I go back and forth between Heathcott and Mason Williams.

    Out of Cervelli, Romine, Murphy and Sanchez they can easily trade 2 of those guys. Pick the right ones, sell high and upgrade the major league roster.

  182. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    blake,

    The 2010 draft where picked Culver really irks me. You look at some of the names picked after him in the 2nd round and it would drive you nuts.

    Would you rather have Culver, who is a project at this point, or Olt, Tajuan Walker, Nick Castellanos, Andrelton Simmons, or Drew Smyly. They were all taken quickly after Culver and then the Yankees with their next pick, pick another SS in Gumbs. Drafting 2 middle infielders, one of whom was an extreme reach with some of those names on the board is maddening.

  183. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    No Blake

    Gio + 100 M > Montero (who is worth far less than when sold) + Darvish

  184. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    “Would you rather have Culver, who is a project at this point, or Olt, Tajuan Walker, Nick Castellanos, Andrelton Simmons, or Drew Smyly. ”

    yup…..they screwed that one up big time. The Simmons one is especially painful…….he could either be playing SS right now or could have been traded for Upton…..sigh

  185. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    I have said this for several years. Finding a high-end, 3B/SS who was/is a young player or near ML ready prospect has been their biggest and most foreseeable need.

    If I was trading Montero, that is what I would be saving him for.`

  186. blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    “Gio + 100 M > Montero (who is worth far less than when sold) + Darvish”

    Darvish’s AAV is like 9 million…..I disagree.

  187. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    YF-

    I want him. Now.

    Make the call.

    I think we recently hired away a really good Pitt scout ? A different one. Last name begins with an “L” I think ? Had a great track record.

    I’m frickin old the neurons just don’t fire very well anymore so I could be totally wrong.

    The other day I thought satchel was cool pappa bell. goes to show ya’.

    :(

  188. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    I certainly hope we traded high for Montero.. but seeing as how we’ve seen no production from the acquired player it seems like a reach to qualify it as such.

  189. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    If you look at the Bichette draft, it’s less painful. He was picked in the sandwich round 51st and there aren’t too many names jumping out as major losses like the Culver draft has.

  190. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    Buster-

    Yup. The catching is another example of sorting things out and utilizing resources.

    Totally agree. Pick the 2 best and trade the others for something you do need before there value goes to zero.

  191. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    MTU, Lee Sigman?

  192. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    Some of have said they’d like to see Oppenheimer as the GM. While I think he has done a good job overall, I would like to know why they chose Bichette and Culver. Was it his idea, or were the choices limited or imposed on him?

  193. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    They don’t really know how to sell high on anyone in all fairness.. could have sold high on Granderson, Nova, Swisher, Gardner…

  194. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    Shame,

    Haven’t you gotten the memo? Pineda has already won 20 games for us and is giving us 200 inning seasons.

    I love when he gets penciled into the top of our rotation off of major shoulder surgery and hasn’t pitched a real game or throw 100 pitches in one every 5 days yet.

  195. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    YF-

    Thanks. That’s him.

    I always knew you were smart.

    ;)

  196. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    “I love when he gets penciled into the top of our rotation off of major shoulder surgery and hasn’t pitched a real game or throw 100 pitches in one every 5 days yet.”

    I hope he’s great, but we won’t have a true read on him for at least a year after he begins pitching at the ML level again.

  197. Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Rich in NJ May 8th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
    “No the proper move would have been to sell high on Montero and use him to acquire Gio Gonzalez and save the 100 M earmarked for Darvish.”

    Reasonable.
    _

    I misread what he said. Darvish was the best option by far.

    SORRY!

  198. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Blake, so that 100 M can be applied to a player and if it tickles your fancy account for luxury tax so that the 100 M reflects spending including luxury tax.

    An example would be Gio Gonzalez + 5 yrs of Kuroda > 5 years of Darvish + Montero (who is worth very little right now.

    I was extremely relieved when the front office took a stance on a prospect and sold high. It rarely happens with the org and never happened with Cashman in charge. And so many busts along the way where value was never recovered. It was the right idea but they passed on Gio in favor of Pineda. It remains to be seen if they bought high on Pineda. They definitely sold high on Montero because he’s worth jacksquat right now.

  199. igotid88 May 8th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    blake May 8th, 2013 at 3:05 pm
    “Great list, Blake… curious which if any the Yanks did have a chance to draft and who they chose instead.”

    I could look up who they drafted instead but it’d take forever….but here is a list of good pitchers the Yanks theoretically could have drafterd.

    Zimmerman (2nd round)
    Gio (1st round, 38th overall).
    Matt Moore (8th round).
    Shields (16th round).
    Lester (2nd round).
    Buttholtz (1st round , 42nd overall).

    more guys they couldn’t have.

    Jerad Weaver (1st round, 12th overall).
    Mike Minor (1st round , 7th overall).
    RA Dickey ! (1st round 18th overall).

    there are just tons of good pitchers the Yanks never even had a shot at.
    ——————

    I think the Angels were looking at Hughes the year they drafted Weaver. So maybe he could have fallen to us

  200. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    I empty a nice part of the Farm every time for a guy like JU.

    And I’d gladly do it for Mr. Stanton.

    Those players are young, proven, and better than any of our young OF’er’s are ever likely to be.

  201. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Rich,

    I hope he’s great too. I just bristle at the attitude by many fans that he’s some sure thing when he’s coming off major arm surgery and has done nothing yet other than throw simulated games or rehab work.

    As much as there’s a segment of fans who feel we gave up Montero irresponsibly for him, there’s a legion of fans who are building up Pineda before he’s demonstrated that he’s healthy enough to be a major league starter with good results since the surgery.

    Let’s see him maintain velocity for 100 pitches and go out and do it again 2-3 more times every 5 days before we christen the sloop.

  202. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    My 2 cents on Pineda.

    What he is able to do right now looks very encouraging.

    And it won’t surprise me if he can do it for a while.

    It’s the longer term prognosis that I’d concern myself about.

    That is nowhwere near as favorable.

    But I’m hoping he beats the odds.

    :)

  203. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    I agree they don’t know how to sell high on anyone. MTU’s point was that absent a good draft position they have to learn how to not love every prospect but to sell high on prospects and keep the diamonds in the rough. That’s a strategy they never even attempted until Montero. It took guts and changed the way I think about Cashman. I used to think he was the biggest wuss on the planet.

    I think the Yankees are better at buying low than selling high. But you need to be good at both. Cashman is still a little too cautious for my taste.

  204. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    G.Love, it is the same with Campos. Everyone drooled over him whenever he pitched last year even though he was in low A ball, but no one cared about Jose Ramirez who was pitching at high A in spite of his electric arm. Whoever we deal for is always considered better than who we already have.

  205. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Afternoon,

    MTU, it was Carlos Rios that was reportedly pocketing money off IFA bonuses. Don’t know if he’s Dominican, but it was held in a Dominican court. Another scout got wasted too for the same thing, but I think they reversed that. Can’t remember his name. Rios was often an interview subject on Teale’s site.

  206. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Buster-

    The other problem right now is what they move prospects for.

    They do not want to take on very many longer financial committments.

    Perhaps after they reset 189 things will change again.

    I have always been in favor MiLB to MiLB swaps but they are rarely done.

  207. Jerkface May 8th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    The Yankees didnt even sell high on Montero.

  208. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    MTU,

    Agree completely. I’m encouraged they’ve said he is throwing over 90mph so far.

    That said, I’m not penciling him in the Yankees plans until he’s on a minor league rehab assignment throwing 100 pitches every 5 days to live batters in game conditions.

    I’m not even penciling in the Yankee vets in Tampa on the DL until they prove that much so I can’t say with any certainty that Pineda is anything more than an intriguing question mark at this point.

  209. Jerkface May 8th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    His value was high of course, but not at its peak.

  210. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    thanks JAP.

    That all goes to G. Love’s point about who was canned.

    I didn’t think it was Sigman.

  211. G. Love May 8th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    yanksfem,

    I saw that Campos threw a few innings and the media folk are already spinning how amazing he is.

    I know what I saw when I watched Ramirez pitch this spring. That’s a major league starter with top shelf stuff.

    If he stays healthy and the Yankees screw him up? I’ll go postal.

    He’s healthy and throwing the ball the way I could only wish Pineda could down the road.

  212. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    For those of you who have been following the story of the 3 Ohio girls locked up for a decade and the neighbor who freed them have to watch this youtube. HILARIOUS!!! This guy is going viral :lol: In a world with so much loss and tragedy this is the kind of thing we all need right now.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZcRU0Op5P4

  213. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    G. Love, he just needs to stay healthy, and the slider needs to become more consistent.

  214. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    G. Love-

    I go much further than that.

    Let’s say Pineda does come back and is effective by next year.

    The question is can he then stay healthy ?

    He has a violent delivery with relative poor mechanics (he falls off badly to one side).

    I’ve checked some of the studies on labrum’s.

    One of the better surveys paints a fairly grim picture of the longterm durability after the surgery.

    Most re-injure themselves and spend considerable time on the DL.

    Some never get it back at all.

    The best comp for Pineda is Anibal Sanchez.

    It took him 2 years to regain his full form but he has manged to stay healthy.

    I think that might be the best we can hope for for Michael.

  215. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    Jerkface May 8th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    The Yankees didnt even sell high on Montero.
    ///

    Got an idea: let’s buy “low” on him.

    Montero hit a HR today to break a 1-1 tie in the 7th, picked off a runner, and threw a runner out, to help his team win.

  216. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    G. Love – Just wait until we hear that ‘no one could have predicted he’d struggle to find consistency in the majors’ after such a long layoff.

    I want Pineda to be the baby ace we need/were told he was. But the more the Yankees pump out reports about how optimistic they are, the more scared I am lol.

  217. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Phil Hughes, after 6 years in the league and without shoulder surgery, is just now on the verge of putting together back to back consistent seasons… Pineda has a long way to go.

  218. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    We all want the best for Pineda.

    But it will take quite some time before we know if has beaten the odds.

    Years actually.

  219. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    MTU May 8th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    thanks JAP.

    That all goes to G. Love’s point about who was canned.

    I didn’t think it was Sigman.
    ///

    Just looked it up. The “wrongful firing” scout was
    Ramon Valdivia.

  220. igotid88 May 8th, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 4:03 pm
    Phil Hughes, after 6 years in the league and without shoulder surgery, is just now on the verge of putting together back to back consistent seasons… Pineda has a long way to go.

    He’s had some setbacks though. This could have been his 5th straight good season.

  221. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    MTU, no Sigman is the Stanford alum who scouted Mexico and found Manny, Aceves, etc.

  222. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    JAP-

    Thanks again. You’re almost as encylcopaedic as GB.

    Only thing was he didn’t even have to consult anything.

    What a memory for baseball.

  223. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    YF-

    I got that all already.

    Thanks.

    :)

  224. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    igotid88 May 8th, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 4:03 pm
    Phil Hughes, after 6 years in the league and without shoulder surgery, is just now on the verge of putting together back to back consistent seasons… Pineda has a long way to go.

    He’s had some setbacks though. This could have been his 5th straight good season.

    —————-

    Yes, but that’s not how it worked out.

    My point is that those setbacks have been much more mild than the one Pineda is facing.

    With our luck, by the time Pineda puts it together completely he’ll be on the verge of free agency, just like Hughes.

  225. blake May 8th, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    “I was extremely relieved when the front office took a stance on a prospect and sold high”

    we don’t know if they sold high or not yet…..and we don’t know how Montero would have hit had to stayed away from Death Stadium.

  226. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    I know what I saw when I watched Ramirez pitch this spring. That’s a major league starter with top shelf stuff.

    If he stays healthy and the Yankees screw him up? I’ll go postal.
    ////

    GLove,

    All things considered, Jo-Ram is the best pitching prospect we have in the system right now, I would say. I don’t think anyone can touch him, just because of that crazy fastball-change combo and his ability to throw strikes.

  227. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    MTU,

    I miss hearing his Charleston reports. :(

  228. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    I still don’t know who else we haven’t dealt that is an elite prospect. We haven’t exactly had elite prospects to deal beyond the obvious ones that we did deal…

  229. blake May 8th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    “All things considered, Jo-Ram is the best pitching prospect we have in the system right now, I would say. I don’t think anyone can touch him, just because of that crazy fastball-change combo and his ability to throw strikes.”

    I agree…..however they are talking about putting him the pen and that’s worrisome.

  230. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    blake,

    I know Teale mentioned it a while back on is site, which led me to suspect/worry it was an institutionally held view.

    Recently?? If so, good grief.

  231. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    I hope the Yankees make an attempt to sell high on Jose Ramirez. If he can be used as a centerpiece for a proven producer like Chase Headley then please go for it. That being said, they could just as easily target a prospect at 3B. I’d rather have the guarantee every time. Gio Gonzalez was a guarantee and so is Headley.

  232. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    keep an eye on Rafael.

    ;)

  233. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Add Choo and Headley to the lineup next year. Surround Cano with those guys.

  234. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:21 pm
    I hope the Yankees make an attempt to sell high on Jose Ramirez. If he can be used as a centerpiece for a proven producer like Chase Headley then please go for it. That being said, they could just as easily target a prospect at 3B. I’d rather have the guarantee every time. Gio Gonzalez was a guarantee and so is Headley.
    ————

    Ramirez for Headley would be a steal, so don’t count on it.

    Gio Gonzalez looks like he’s reverted back into normal old Gio Gonzalez, not the ace level guy he was last year. Still good, but not great yet, so far.

  235. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    One of the best Pitching prospects we ever had in the system just could not stay healthy.

    His name. Christian Garcia.

    Talk about a sick CU, and sick stuff in general.

    Too bad his body conspired against him.

    :(

  236. blake May 8th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    Bret,
    How do you know they’d be sellling high? Trading away prospects all the time is dangerous business when you have such a hard time developing them and are on a budget. I would like to get Headley and would consider trading Ramirez to get him…..but they shouldn’t be just shopping guys to “sell high”

  237. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Then by all means, buy low on Gio Gonzalez. Lefty in Yankees stadium with swing and miss stuff? He’s tailor made for pinstripes.

  238. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    keep an eye on Rafael.

    ;)
    ///

    Would that we could. I’m thrilled I got to see him live in Lakewood, but that won’t be happening again until he gets his big arm to Trenton. Can’t even see Tampa games on miLb once he gets promoted.

  239. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    Last year was the Ramirez to the pen BS. They’d only do it I would think once JRam’s season is over, and I wouldn’t expect it to be permanent. The Yankees aren’t that dumb.

    Rays do it for a few innings with their new guys at end of year, putting them in the pen; see Price, Matt Moore, etc. And with Price in 2008 playoffs, but they knew not to keep them there too long.

  240. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    Blake, I said “attempt” to sell high. Absent a good draft position let alone development issues, there’s no other way to add value to a team if you keep all your busts and keep hoping they all pan out and keep saying it’s dangerous to attempt to sell high on any of them.

  241. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    MTU,

    Why did you do that? :)

    The Nats were talking about moving him from the bullpen back to starting before he had some injury bug again. Think he’s back now, though.

  242. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    The Yankees aren’t that dumb.
    ///

    Hope not, but fool me once…

  243. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    And that was my prob with the FO philosophy. They considered it dangerous to sell when I consider it dangerous to hold too long. Either way you can lose money and that’s why you have to have a balance and sell high when a player is raking for a guaranteed performer. Pineda was coming off an all-star season and Gio was emerging as a top lefty. The idea to ATTEMPT to sell high for once was the right one.

  244. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    After seeing DePaula, I can’t get on board with keeping him in Charleston too long.

    What he did against SALLY hitters down in Lakewood was just rear back and overpower them when he got into trouble. He was never really “in trouble” because you could see that, outside of working on things, he could pretty much toy with the hitters. I think he needs stiffer competition.

  245. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    JAP-

    At least you got to see him once.

    That more than any of us.

    He’s a big boy but very well proportioned and athletic.

    A little more concerned about J-Ram. Seems a little fragile so far.

    More of a long lanky type.

    Stuff is top drawer that’s for sure. Once he makes that slider serviceable it’s good night charlie.

    I hope he can stay healthy. Unbelieveable arm.

  246. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    Josh Norris@jnorris427 10m
    Holy cow Shane Greene: 8.1 IP, 5 H, R, ER, 0 BB, 12 SO.

  247. blake May 8th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    I don’t think you attempt to sell high on guys just for the sake of doing it…..because you really have no idea if you’re actually selling high or not. What if JRam turns in to a great starter and you traded him?

    You talk to other GM’s about needs and see where things go…..you don’t try to trade a prospect just because…..

  248. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    I would like to get Headley and would consider trading Ramirez to get him….
    ————

    Yeah Blake? I’d pull the trigger immediately. Sign him to a five year extension and be done with it.

    Ramirez is still a work in process. He needs another pitch. The highest IP of his career was 115 back in 2010. Then we’re probably talking an adjustment period in the bigs. He’s a project.

    Headley is in his prime, and we need a 3B. I’d go with the major leaguer.

  249. yanks 27 May 8th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    I can definitely see Mattingly and Girardi swapping places after this season

    Dodgers let Mattingly go after 3 non-playoff seasons and the high expectations if they miss the playoffs. Yankees miss the playoffs and Girardi’s goodwill is over – 4 years since winning the WS (even if its not his fault for the injuries/roster this season)

    Mattingly is a popular name who Hal will bring back to create some buzz and he already has goodwill with the fans

    Girardi will be the best manager on the market who has already won a WS in NY and is a big name they can sell in LA

    Win-win for everyone.

  250. blake May 8th, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    I think they would like for Depaula to get the walks down a little before promoting him…..but he’s not going to be challenged by low A hitters if he throws strikes so I do hope they get him to the FSL soon.

  251. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Mattingly for Girardi, yeah right…

  252. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    blake May 8th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    I don’t think you attempt to sell high on guys just for the sake of doing it…..because you really have no idea if you’re actually selling high or not. What if JRam turns in to a great starter and you traded him?

    You talk to other GM’s about needs and see where things go…..you don’t try to trade a prospect just because…..

    _____________

    WTF? Blake, just for the sake of doing it? How about for the sake of acquiring a proven producer like Headley. In that case, who cares if you sold high but not highest? You have a sturdy asset in your portfolio.

  253. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    If selling high means trading for a sure thing then how did they sell high on Montero exactly…?

    The biggest issue I had with that deal is when you have a top 5 ranked prospect, at a premium position, that projects a big bat, why are you trading for what is essentially not a finished product?

  254. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    I’d love to trade Montero for Headley or Upton or Giancarlo! Let’s get on that!

  255. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    Blake-

    He’s a Man among boys down there.

  256. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    I mean, honestly, talking about Ramirez for Headley is silly. It just wouldn’t get it done. Multiple teams would be in the bidding… Ramirez might not even be a top #5 prospect of ours.

  257. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    JRam’s already shown a decent slider, just needs to work on consistency. He pitched 98 innings last season, so it’s the healthiest he’s been in 3 years. The ball is coming out of his hand free and easy, and he can effortlessly touch 97.

  258. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    If value isn’t high enough, you will end up having to gut more of your farm for a proven commodity. If GMs dealt players with lower value, they wouldn’t last long in this day of limited FA and the new CBA. You have to be smart and weigh your deals well.

  259. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 4:42 pm
    If selling high means trading for a sure thing then how did they sell high on Montero exactly…?

    The biggest issue I had with that deal is when you have a top 5 ranked prospect, at a premium position, that projects a big bat, why are you trading for what is essentially not a finished product?
    ———-

    In all fairness, he wasn’t really a premium position player. At one point he was, but at the time of the trade, he wasn’t considered a legitimate catching prospect. Guess they didn’t really “sell high.”

    If only that damn Lee deal went through…

  260. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    We sold high for a proven producer which I define as an All-Star. I would have preferred Gio Gonzalez because he had set a longer precedent of health, was a lefty and profiles well for Yankees Stadium. So the idea of attempting to sell an unproven prospect high (not “peak” or “highest”) for a proven producer was the right approach.

    Ramirez for Headley echoes the same concept.

    Montero for Headley would get laughed at right now.

  261. RMike May 8th, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    All these prospects are great, but let’s start seeing some of them instead of trotting out guys like Chris Stewart, Nelson, Overbay, Francisco, Bosche, Wells (even though he’s been good), etc. and stop begging guys like Andy and Kuroda to come back every year.

  262. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Shame-

    Pineda was successful in the Bigs in his 1st year.

    Hardly an unfinished product.

    He proved he could get big-leaguers out even with what he had.

    He actually had a working CU already. Just wasn’t using it much because his other stuff was overpowering.

    The Yankees wanted him to further refine the Pitch and to use it more.

    Unfortunately, he blew out his shoulder before all that could happen.

    :(

  263. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    That’s why if you are going to deal JRam, you would wait until he has thrived in AA. Otherwise, you are going to have to give up a haul. Not that I am advocating dealing him.

  264. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Ramirez for Miggy

  265. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    Radio Kev,

    Ok, I’m hearing folks say they would rage and scream bloody murder if we traded Sanchez. Would you trade Sanchez in a Headley deal?

    I would.

    Sanchez is in A ball. Headley led the NL in RBI’s last year.

  266. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    I wouldn’t call Pineda a proven producer. He had just started his career. Hilarious how he is a proven producer, while Hughes, who won 18 games, wasn’t considered such. (Not that I am into wins…)…

  267. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    That’s not to say the Padres would want him or that I wouldn’t try to get the deal done without Sanchez in it. The Pads have a catcher and i would focus on Ramirez, Murphy and Mason Williams.

  268. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    A player who makes an all-star team is a proven producer. I already said I wanted the guy with the longer track record of proven production.

  269. Jerkface May 8th, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    1 year of production is not proven. He was league average. Not a world beater. He had world beater stuff, but so do a lot of guys.

  270. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    I wouldn’t want to give up Sanchez for Headley, but that’s more realistic, yeah. There’s also the cost of extending Headley.

  271. Jerkface May 8th, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    A player who makes an all-star team is a proven producer.

    Phil Hughes made the all-star team. And Ricky Romero.

  272. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    Well had he made the All Star game two years in a row he would not be available for an unproven prospect. He was about as proven a player as you were going to get. Again, I never even had my mind on him. I liked Gio’s longer track record of health and proven production. But now I’m repeating myself so from this point on if i’m misinterpreted or my words changed in any way,

    no comment.

    Get Headley.

  273. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    But honestly, I think the Padres actually try to extend Headley. How long are they going to keep rebuilding?

  274. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    YF-

    He wasn’t exactly a MiLB project either. He had showed that he could get ML hitters out over the course of a season. He was successful. Actually very successful.

    That is something to build upon.

    I wasn’t comparing him to anyone.

    I think he can stand or fall on his own merits.

    Unfortunately, he injured himself.

    ;)

  275. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    Kev – He was still ranked #5 in all of baseball at the time.

    We just don’t get a lot of prospects like that. His catching from everything I’ve seen with Seattle is more than passable as long as his bat lived up to the hype. Right now that’s not happening, but based on his prior production all indications were that would be the least of his issues.

  276. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    I think both fan bases would rather the deal never happened. Probably makes it a fair trade ;)

  277. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    Jerkface May 8th, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    1 year of production is not proven. He was league average. Not a world beater. He had world beater stuff, but so do a lot of guys.

    ——————

    Yeah.

    I’m just saying we may have been able to get a little more bang for our buck with Montero, even if it meant hyping and hiding him.

  278. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    I mean, the trade talks began with Montero packaged for Felix and ended up being Montero for Pineda… that’s quite the downgrade in terms of a return.

  279. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    “Yeah Blake? I’d pull the trigger immediately. Sign him to a five year extension and be done with it.”

    sure but it wouldn’t be a 1 for 1 deal….it’d take more.

  280. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    Speaking of prior produciton, I’d love to see how PECOTA (minus Nate so now it’s totally different and not credible :roll:

    has done on Montero’s 2013 campaign.

  281. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    Pineda had a great half year, and hopefully he can resume where he left off. I would be thrilled to get him in Trenton on a rehab assignment. However, a young pitcher, especially one who is still in the injury matrix whether or not he was an “all star” doesn’t have much value if the pitcher is on the shelf because of surgery.

  282. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    I think both fan bases would rather the deal never happened. Probably makes it a fair trade ;)

    ——————

    You think the M’s are really that miffed over losing a player that hasn’t thrown a pitch in a year…? I somehow get the feeling the expectations over there are not quite the same as what they are here.

  283. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    Jose Ramirez, working with a couple mph lower than he is now, was topping out at 93 mph and sitting 90-91 down in Lakewood a couple of years ago.

    He utterly dominated his opponent with an in and out fastball and a beautiful change, keeping the hitters off balance all day with virtually two pitches. So I don’t think he gets relegated to the typical “2-pitch” pitcher status, and he’s already showing progress with the slider. Sending him to the bullpen would be inexplicable.
    ///

    MTU – People in these parts could have traveled to see DePaula. It was over an hour’s ride, but he wasn’t pitching on the moon. You might have had a challenge getting there, however :)

    I don’t know if Jo-Ram stands out as particularly fragile, but it’s interesting you say that. I’ve heard it before, but it was more a reference to his “confidence,” which I have seen no evidence of, really. I guess “fragile” is a synonym for pitching in general, though.

  284. Jerkface May 8th, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    Dont know why you’re rolling your eyes at that. PECOTA has been really bad at prognosticating since Nate left because no one was tweaking the underlying system. The other projection systems like ZIPs and CAIRO were beating it every season.

  285. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    “WTF? Blake, just for the sake of doing it? How about for the sake of acquiring a proven producer like Headley. In that case, who cares if you sold high but not highest? You have a sturdy asset in your portfolio”

    when you say “sell high” though that sounds like you just want to trade him for best return you can get…..if you are talking about a specific guy like Headley then ok…..but it depends on the deal.

  286. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    not my words. no comment.

  287. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    J Ram’s stuff yesterday was legit…..he just couldn’t command anything. He does have top of the rotation potential IMO but he has to stay healthy and get more consistent with his command. His CU is a legit big league plus pitch now…..

  288. RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    You think the M’s are really that miffed over losing a player that hasn’t thrown a pitch in a year…? I somehow get the feeling the expectations over there are not quite the same as what they are here.
    ————-

    I don’t think fans are too happy with Montero right now. I know that neither fanbase was happy at the time of the trade. Doubt Montero’s done anything to convince them otherwise.

  289. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 5:05 pm

    Hard to judge the whole thing when Pineda basically injured himself right out of the gate.

    People argued that we needed the bat more than the young arm.

    That’s a fair argument. I’m somewhat sympatico with it.

    But what if Pineda had stayed healthy and built upon the success of his 1st season turning into a solid # 2.

    Would that change anything ? Or would everyone still just want that bat ?

    Anyway, It’s a moot point right now.

    I was a fence sitter in the whole debate and probably would remain so for quite some time.

    Others were much more sure of the outcomes. Not me.

  290. Warning Track Power May 8th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    the last thing this team needs is a rain delay or rain out.

  291. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    The only time MTU was ever sure of an outcome looked how that turned out – Holliday signed with the Cardinals ;)

  292. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    MTU, since 2010, I have thought we need to reload on O. And I have said so countless times. If Pineda can come back and contribute as a front end pitcher, that would be great. But this team has struggled in the playoffs the past three years because they didn’t have the offense to succeed.

  293. Tackelberry May 8th, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    How is the weather in Denver for tonight’s game? Is there more rain in the forecast? Hope they get it in.

  294. Shame Spencer May 8th, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    RadioKev May 8th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    You think the M’s are really that miffed over losing a player that hasn’t thrown a pitch in a year…? I somehow get the feeling the expectations over there are not quite the same as what they are here.
    ————-

    I don’t think fans are too happy with Montero right now. I know that neither fanbase was happy at the time of the trade. Doubt Montero’s done anything to convince them otherwise.

    ———————

    Look, people can disagree with this logic all they want but: I’d rather have a guy that can play than one on the long term DL.

    They didn’t have a problem with his second half last year.

    Two weeks ago people were prepared to give Wells a batting title on this blog. We’re only a little over a month into the season. They might not be happy with him now, but if I’m an M’s fan I’d be more concerned with the FO that decided 4 DH’s was a good idea.

  295. Jerkface May 8th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    MTU,

    Pineda becoming really good was the best case scenario, so of course it’d be an ok trade then. It wasn’t the most likely scenario though. There were plenty of red flags around Pineda, which is why the Yankees got him in essentially a 1 for 1.

  296. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    The Yankees didn’t trade for a player on the DL, they traded an unproven prospect for an all star pitcher.

    And this is an erroneous strategy only in a world where Montero was worth Miguel Cabrera.

  297. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    The problem with how people are evaluating Montero is that they are evaluating him as if he will be what he is now. It is the same mentality every time one of our younger pitchers has a bad game. People immediately want to send them down, trade them, DFA them. Development means development, not a finished product. If Pineda has bumps in the road on his comeback trial, God preserve him from the wrath of Yankee fans.

  298. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    Pineda is not an All Star pitcher; he is a pitcher who happened to be an All Star for half year. Big difference.

  299. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    But I digress, I was obsessed with Gio Gonzalez that off season.

  300. yankeefeminista May 8th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    half *a year

  301. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    Buster-

    You know how to break a guy’s heart don’t you ?

    It’s then that I learned once and for all that Money is what 99% of these guys look at.

    I miscalculated.

    The rest is just fluff.

    Not that I blame them. Just wish they wouldn’t BS about it.

    :(

  302. champ809 May 8th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    I think many on here can tend to be very premature in rating drafts or declaring prospects busts and whatnot and it is beyond unfair to compare just drafted players to established guys i.e. Matt Moores etc.

    Developing baseball players by nature is an inexact science. To declare that last years draft was a bad draft because Ty Hensley is having surgery is silly. Ignoring his skillset, on a value basis alone he was almost a must draft as he was a top10 talent there @ 28th when they took him.

    Matt Moore spent 5 full years in the minors and pitched close to 500 innings before he sniffed the majors. The thing is the Rays development system is old school in that way. Teams invest so much $ in these top picks that they feel the need to rush their development in order to begin to recoup said investment in some cases.

    2yrs from now Hensley could be the top pitching prospect in baseball and the talk will be how he was a steal for the Yanks and how great their 2012 draft was.

  303. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    :roll:

  304. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    MTU,

    You were duped by P’s father.

  305. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    I missed Jo-Ram’s start yesterday. Was busy watching the Penguins wave at Islanders in the neutral zone.

    I plan to see him pitch on Sunday, unless I have a Game 7 going on.

  306. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 5:14 pm

    So the answer is.

    For YF it makes no difference.

    For JF it does.

    I hope I got that one right.

    Thanks.

    ;)

  307. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    “I think many on here can tend to be very premature in rating drafts or declaring prospects busts and whatnot and it is beyond unfair to compare just drafted players to established guys i.e. Matt Moores etc.”

    I don’t think anybody did this.

  308. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    I missed Jo-Ram’s start yesterday. Was busy watching the Penguins wave at Islanders in the neutral zone.”

    Electric stuff…..really the 2nd inning killed him pitch count wise as he threw a ton of pitches through 2 innings…..was missing up a lot. He settled down in the 3rd and 4th a bit but by then the pitch count had gotten him.

    His slider doesn’t look too bad to me…..if he throws strikes he’s not gonna get hit in the minors much

  309. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    Buster-

    Maybe. He probably just passed along the best info. he had.

    I definitely believed it. And it turned out to be incorrect. For sure.

    Anyway, These guys go for the bread in the great majority of instances.

    I bet Harper will do the same thing even though he said he is a lifelong Ynakees fan.

    If someone offers him millions more I bet he goes there.

    So much for wanting to be a Yankee and wearing the stripes.

    Maybe we’ll be the high bidder next time.

    ;)

  310. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Holiday isn’t a Yankee because the yanks passed because of the money….they traded for Granderson instead because he was cheaper

  311. comnsnse May 8th, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Blake et al, these posts touch primarily on pitching which there is no dispute the team has not fared well.

    How about the other components noted, i.e. positional players, international signings and trades?

    A trifecta of areas where this organization has had a less than favorable return.

    It will become much harder now with a firm cap for the organization to dominate free agency and international signings, so the ultimate conclusion has to be to do a much better job scouting and evaluating domestic players.

    Was anyone for for the Culver signing which shocked the baseball community?

  312. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    MTU,

    How old will Harper be as a free agent? This is year 2 for him. 4 more years added to his current age.

    24?

  313. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    @RaysJoeMaddon: Hoping doesn’t work in baseball. You have to believe. You have to go out every day believing it will turn and eventually it does.

  314. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    “How old will Harper be as a free agent? This is year 2 for him. 4 more years added to his current age.”

    25 I think….maybe 26. I expect the Nats to offer him a ginormous extension soon…..like 200+ million big

  315. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    blake, I agree he’s not going to get hit much. He was real good in his first start, and out of the pen in that piggy-back game, he was a little off but they still couldn’t really do anything with him.

    Just needs to stay healthy and build the arm up.

  316. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    “Was anyone for for the Culver signing which shocked the baseball community?”

    It was an out of the blue pick and was almost universally panned by everybody

  317. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    Buster-

    I think Blake just covered it.

  318. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    He will turn 25 just before free agency. To put that in perspective will be 24 right after the end of the 2013 season.

    WOW

  319. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    I think the Nats got the extra year of Bryce by waiting to call him up last year…. So I think they have him 5 more after this year

  320. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    He will turn 25 just before free agency. To put that in perspective Montero will be 24 right after the end of the 2013 season.

    WOW

  321. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    We a ton of pitching in the system, and a handful of high-end arms.

  322. blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    The Nats have tons of money….if Harper reaches free agency he will have to turn down a huge extension IMO

  323. Jesus Bustero May 8th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    So what would you rather have, Bryce Harper at 26 or Jesus Montero at 24?

  324. mick May 8th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Shades of LaRussa:

    RT @M_Marakovits Gardner 8, Cano 4, Wells 7, Overbay 3, Suzuki 9, Nix 6, Nelson 5, Phelps 1, Romine 2

  325. MTU May 8th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    New one —->

  326. J. Alfred Prufrock May 8th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    blake May 8th, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Holiday isn’t a Yankee because the yanks passed because of the money….they traded for Granderson instead because he was cheaper
    ///

    Holliday-AJax-Melky :) works for me.

  327. champ809 May 8th, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    Yankeefem

    Exactly much like Headley who’s only had half a season’s worth of all star production.

    For as much of a bust as Montero is or has been the 3′s he put up last season were what Headley has done every year except the secon half of last year.

    Montero was 22yrs old in the majors. Headley @ age 22 was putting up mediocre #’s in high A ball.

    For all the knocking of his catching skills he’s become the personal C of the best pitcher in the league and has caught a no hitter….not bad

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