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Postgame notes: “We need him to be more consistent”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 02, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

David Napoli, Phil Hughes

Joe Girardi’s decision to walk David Ortiz and pitch to Mike Napoli was based on pretty standard baseball logic. It setup a right-on-right matchup. It setup a potential double play. It gave the Yankees a force out at the plate. And it gave Hughes a matchup against the guy who leads all of baseball with 80 strikeouts.

“To me, you’re looking for a strikeout in that situation, and Napoli has struck out a lot more,” Girardi said. “… I don’t want to start putting people on base, but you’re looking at trying to shut down an inning, and that’s the bottom line. When you get in that situation, I’m going to do what I think is the best thing to do, and I thought the best thing to do was to try and get Napoli. It didn’t work.”

Hughes went ahead 0-2. Then Napoli fouled off a pitch. Then Hughes threw two balls out of the zone. Then Napoli hit a 94 mph fastball for a grand slam to right-center field. Fitting of Hughes’ hit-or-miss nature, he struck out the batter before the intentional walk and struck out the two batters after the grand slam.

Phil Hughes“I feel like if I can find a way to get Napoli out there, that’s really a momentum shifter,” Hughes said. “… Just (wanted the pitch) more down and away. It was in a spot that he could handle. He saw a lot of fastballs. It was just one of those things. Got more of the plate than I wanted.”

Intentionally loading the bases is not an unheard of risk, but it’s always a bit of a gamble. With Hughes, though, risk-reward situations seem to take on an unusual extreme. The Yankees have seen him pitch well — his previous two starts, for example — but they’ve also seen plenty of innings like tonight’s third get out of hand and change an entire game. Less than a month ago, Hughes’ ERA was 3.60. Today it ballooned back to 5.37, a sign of his ongoing inconsistency from night to night, and occasionally from pitch to pitch.

“We need him to pitch well, that’s the bottom line,” Girardi said. “We need him to be more consistent.”

The Yankees have been saying that for a few years now, and as another writer said to me in the postgame clubhouse, Hughes has been saying the same things for a few years now as well. It’s not really Hughes’ fault — the repetitive comments, I mean — because the conversations always center on the same topics: Hughes throws a lot of fastballs, he gives up a lot of home runs, and in his seventh big league season, his career is still defined by inconsistency. What else is there to say?

Starts like tonight don’t always happen. But they aren’t unusual either.

“You always want to put a bunch of good starts together from your rotation,” Hughes said. “These are big games against the Red Sox and you’d like to follow up CC with a quality start. It hurts. Anytime you don’t pitch well, it stings, but in a spot where we’d really like to turn things around it hurts a little bit more.”

Kevin Youkilis• Kind of a weird situation with Chris Stewart, who was pulled from tonight’s game because of dehydration. He said he felt light-headed during pregame stretch, but he thought he could play through it. Eventually, he couldn’t. “My body was just weak,” he said, still sounding a little groggy. “I’ve never had that feeling out there before.”

• Stewart said the Yankees performed a series of tests to make sure there’s nothing seriously wrong, but ultimately just filled him with fluids. He’s hoping to play tomorrow. “He checked out OK,” Girardi said. “I think he feels better now.”

• Vernon Wells went 0-for-4 and now has three hits in his past 34 at-bats. He has no walks and six strikeouts in that span. His slash line is down to .253/.300/.439. “He’ll come out of it,” Girardi said. “I’m not concerned about that. I think Vernon’s going to come out of it. He swung the bat pretty good last night, but I think he’s going to come out of it.”

• Better news on David Adams, who snapped an 0-for-14 streak with a fourth-inning single. He had another hit in the sixth and how has 15 hits in his first 16 games. He’s one of four Yankees since 2000 to have at least 15 hits in his first 16 games, joining Hideki Matsui (who had 20), Jesus Montero (20) and Robinson Cano (18).

• Before Stewart was pulled, he had the Yankees only RBI on a fourth-inning sacrifice fly. This was the fourth time in six games that the Yankees scored only one run.

Brett Gardner• Adam Warren had his worst outing of the season, allowing six runs through three innings. He’s allowed nine runs in his past two outings, a pair of bad appearances after 13.2 scoreless innings in his previous five games. His ERA has jumped to 3.77. It was 2.10 when the night started.

• Preston Claiborne has still not walked a batter through 16.1 innings. Since 1916, he’s the first Yankees pitcher to not allow a walk through his first 11 Major League outings coming as a reliever only. “He’s been really good,” Girardi said. “Every situation we’ve put him in he’s been really good and he’s thrown strikes and he’s thrown strikes with three different pitches. His velocity has been good, his location has been good. He’s just got the job done.”

• As a whole, the Yankees pitching staff allowed 18 hits, their most in a game since June 29, 2012 in Chicago. It was the most hits the Yankees had allowed against the Red Sox since May 28, 2005 (a 17-1 loss at the original Yankee Stadium). … The 10-run margin of defeat made this the Yankees worst loss to the Red Sox at the current Yankee Stadium. Last time they lost by more against the Red Sox in New York came on May 9, 2006.

• Final word from Girardi on Hughes: “He had a hard time putting some guys away. He was getting ahead of them, but he couldn’t put them away. … It seems like when the at-bats get long it gets harder because they see everything. And when you get ahead 0-2, you want to try to put them away right away. You don’t want it to be four, five, six more pitches because then you see everything, and those were the ones he struggled with.”

Associated Press photos

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118 Responses to “Postgame notes: “We need him to be more consistent””

  1. Jesus Bustero June 2nd, 2013 at 12:12 am

    Final word from Girardi on Hughes: “He had a hard time putting some guys away. He was getting ahead of them, but he couldn’t put them away. … It seems like when the at-bats get long it gets harder because they see everything. And when you get ahead 0-2, you want to try to put them away right away. You don’t want it to be four, five, six more pitches because then you see everything, and those were the ones he struggled with.”

    ___________

    Too bad this wasn’t your observation in 2008 but 5 years later is better than never.

  2. Triple Short of a Cycle June 2nd, 2013 at 12:14 am

    Why is it our guys coming off the DL always give excuses about needing time to get going and to get up to speed facing major league pitching meanwhile David Ortiz comes off the DL and starts hitting right away?

  3. Jesus Bustero June 2nd, 2013 at 12:16 am

    Because that’s what you have to to say when you can’t admit the players you have coming back lack talent.

  4. Jerkface June 2nd, 2013 at 12:17 am

    Ortiz is a better hitter than Mark Teixeira and Kevin Youkilis.

  5. Niblick June 2nd, 2013 at 12:23 am

    Same old delusional nonsense crap from Girardi.

  6. igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 12:29 am

    Usually starting pitchers get 2 or 3 full seasons before they come into their own. Hughes is probably 2 years behind where he should be.

  7. Against All Odds June 2nd, 2013 at 12:31 am

    igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 12:29 am
    Usually starting pitchers get 2 or 3 full seasons before they come into their own. Hughes is probably 2 years behind where he should be.

    ——————

    But he’s been starting since 07

  8. Nick in SF June 2nd, 2013 at 12:32 am

    The only RBI came from the guy running out of fluids.

  9. fantasygame101 June 2nd, 2013 at 12:34 am

    Hughes is actually consistently inconsistent.

  10. Niblick June 2nd, 2013 at 12:37 am

    Hughes has now started 114 games for the Yanks. That’s approaching 4 full seasons. Enough of the excuses from him and Girardi.

  11. Jerkface June 2nd, 2013 at 12:39 am

    But he’s been starting since 07

    To be fair he lost 3 seasons due to injury and one due to being put in the pen.

  12. igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 12:43 am

    Against All Odds June 2nd, 2013 at 12:31 am
    igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 12:29 am
    Usually starting pitchers get 2 or 3 full seasons before they come into their own. Hughes is probably 2 years behind where he should be.

    ——————

    But he’s been starting since 07
    ——

    He’s only 2 full seasons in that time. And since 06 has only thrown 140 or more innings 3 times. One of those was in the minors. The other two came after short seasons due to injury. And some struggle early in the season.

  13. Against All Odds June 2nd, 2013 at 12:46 am

    True there have been injuries along the way but I feel when it comes Hughes there is always something added to it. “Don’t count this year, you can count these games, don’t count this half season, remove these two starts….

  14. igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 12:50 am

    Niblick June 2nd, 2013 at 12:37 am
    Hughes has now started 114 games for the Yanks. That’s approaching 4 full seasons. Enough of the excuses from him and Girardi.
    —–

    True but it’s not the same if he pitched those in 4 straight years or 4 out 5. And by then his 3rd or 4th pitches would have developed.

  15. Against All Odds June 2nd, 2013 at 12:53 am

    igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 12:43 am
    Against All Odds June 2nd, 2013 at 12:31 am
    igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 12:29 am
    Usually starting pitchers get 2 or 3 full seasons before they come into their own. Hughes is probably 2 years behind where he should be.

    ——————

    But he’s been starting since 07
    ——

    He’s only 2 full seasons in that time. And since 06 has only thrown 140 or more innings 3 times. One of those was in the minors. The other two came after short seasons due to injury. And some struggle early in the season.

    ———

    But that’s on him though. Some guys are more injury prone than others

  16. igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 1:00 am

    Against All Odds June 2nd, 2013 at 12:46 am
    True there have been injuries along the way but I feel when it comes Hughes there is always something added to it. “Don’t count this year, you can count these games, don’t count this half season, remove these two starts….
    ——–

    I understand but when you go from throwing about 90ip* one season to 190 the next. Then throwing 80 to 191 the following year you can see why some of us don’t want to call it so soon. I don’t know how many pitchers have gone through the same situation and also have the win now New York spotlight on them at the same time.

  17. Jerkface June 2nd, 2013 at 1:04 am

    Igotid,

    While I agree Hughes has been hampered by lost seasons and an inability to work a consistent amount of innings year to year, in the end that means he is risky and doesn’t need to be held onto at all costs.

  18. igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 1:04 am

    Against All Odds June 2nd, 2013 at 12:53 am
    igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 12:43 am
    Against All Odds June 2nd, 2013 at 12:31 am
    igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 12:29 am
    Usually starting pitchers get 2 or 3 full seasons before they come into their own. Hughes is probably 2 years behind where he should be.

    ——————

    But he’s been starting since 07
    ——

    He’s only 2 full seasons in that time. And since 06 has only thrown 140 or more innings 3 times. One of those was in the minors. The other two came after short seasons due to injury. And some struggle early in the season.

    ———

    But that’s on him though. Some guys are more injury prone than others
    ——

    I would say 2011 was more on him. He admitted to not doing much work in the offseason due to his high innings jump. The quad and the ribs I don’t think

  19. igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 1:08 am

    Jerkface June 2nd, 2013 at 1:04 am
    Igotid,

    While I agree Hughes has been hampered by lost seasons and an inability to work a consistent amount of innings year to year, in the end that means he is risky and doesn’t need to be held onto at all costs.
    ——

    That might be but we will have to wait until the season is over and where he is at that point.

  20. Against All Odds June 2nd, 2013 at 1:08 am

    igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 1:00 am
    ——————-

    True the jump in innings was a difficult thing to deal with.

  21. Niblick June 2nd, 2013 at 1:09 am

    It’s not the lack of experience or his previous injuries. I just don’t think Hughes has the brains to be a successful major league pitcher. A strong arm and a good fastball but nothing whatsoever between the ears.

  22. Against All Odds June 2nd, 2013 at 1:10 am

    where he is at that point.

    ——————-

    At that point he’ll have double digit wins, under 200 innings, and a 4 ERA

  23. Rich in NJ June 2nd, 2013 at 1:28 am

    It is quickly getting to the point where they can no longer waste starts on a maddeningly inconsistent pitcher who isn’t going to be here next year. So Nuno or Nova or eventually Pineda should take Hughes’ starts.

  24. igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 1:45 am

    Niblick June 2nd, 2013 at 1:09 am
    It’s not the lack of experience or his previous injuries. I just don’t think Hughes has the brains to be a successful major league pitcher. A strong arm and a good fastball but nothing whatsoever between the ears.
    —–

    And you know this how? So in the games where struggles in the beginning and figures it out later is just an aberration? His first 2 full seasons weren’t as bad as people make it out to be. Considering where he was coming from. And nowadays starters are getting 3 less starts.

  25. jacksquat June 2nd, 2013 at 1:58 am

    Nick in SF June 2nd, 2013 at 12:32 amThe only RBI came from the guy running out of fluids.

    Dehydration for everyone!

  26. backbench June 2nd, 2013 at 1:59 am

    Rich in NJ June 2nd, 2013 at 1:28 am

    It is quickly getting to the point where they can no longer waste starts on a maddeningly inconsistent pitcher who isn’t going to be here next year
    _________

    Well past that point.

    Who in ‘LoHud Land’ can honestly say that they feel confident of victory when Hughes has the start? The more honest reaction is to be positively surprised when he pitches a good game.

    NYYs are not going to be able to consitently give him the run support he received during his ‘big years.’ Looks like the Yanks are becoming the Mariners without the pitching.

  27. Triple Short of a Cycle June 2nd, 2013 at 2:06 am

    Who in ‘LoHud Land’ can honestly say that they feel confident of victory when Hughes has the start?

    —————————————

    Who can be confident of any number 4 pitcher getting a victory?

  28. sunny615 June 2nd, 2013 at 2:12 am

    good bye Hughes. Enjoy your time as an Astro or whoever else is dumb enough to sign your horrible pitching.

  29. backbench June 2nd, 2013 at 2:20 am

    “Who can be confident of any number 4 pitcher getting a victory?”

    True enough, but if the Yankee’s are to meet their own post season objectives, that question needs to be focused on the 5th pitcher in the rotation. The 4th slot should deliver more than ‘hope and a prayer’ for a championship team.

    Just my dumb opinion, though.

  30. jacksquat June 2nd, 2013 at 2:56 am

    Phelps has a 4.32 ERA as a starter this year (6 starts). I guess you could call him the #4 and Hughes the #5 and then not have to rely on Hughes as much?

  31. jacksquat June 2nd, 2013 at 3:11 am

    Hughes probably should have gone with an off-speed pitch on the 2-2 count to Napoli. If I’m Napoli, I’m thinking “the bases are loaded, he doesn’t want to go to 3-2 and risk walking me, plus I’ll really know the fastball is coming then”. So he was probably sitting fastball. I would have thrown a change or curve. The problem is Hughes’ secondary pitches are inconsistent and he heavily favors his fastball, and that has always been his problem. He has a good fastball, but it’s too easy for hitters to be expecting it. He should mix his pitches more, and I think a two-seamer would really help him.

  32. sammiejohnson June 2nd, 2013 at 3:23 am

    Fran the original June 1st, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    What exactly do I have to do to be banned when I want to be banned?

    Chad, would you please ban me? I thought if I could stay undetected through the Red Sox series, we might win all 3 games. Once I was detected, I tried to be banned, but to no avail.

    _____________________________

    What?

    Fran/C R 9/Jackie Bradley Jr./RubyRedSox/ WCYF (Whatever your handle is today):

    Listen Bro, you absolutely do NOT need Chad’s help here. (We Don’t Need No Stinking Chad!) You can ban yourself! Fortunately, I am here to help!

    Here is how you do it:

    1.) Sign off your computer/tablet/Iphone. (Yes, I know that they probably belong to your parent’s- or the state- but be sure to sign off first.)

    2.) Find an all night Sporting Goods store in your area that sells “authentic” Louisville Sluggers. It is probably not important which model you procure, but I personally favor a JB34- Johnny Bench model. (I am a fan of “offensive catchers”.)

    3.) Take your JB34 (or, of course, whichever model you yourself have personally selected) and beat the living s^it out of your computer/tablet/Iphone. I mean we are going for LITTLE pieces here. Like nothing over the size of a cat terd. I mean flail away like you are Chris Stewart, but actually try to hit it anyway.
    NOTE: Now- This Is Important! Be sure to disconnect the power source from your computer/tablet/Iphone BEFORE beating the crap out of it with your JB34 (or your personal favorite). Failure to do so could result in electrical shock, and we do not want that! Remember: THINK SAFE! Also, I feel safety glasses would be a quality addition, but use your own “judgement” here.

    4.) Clean Up! Boy, we have made us a mess! We must now clean it up. Do NOT, I repeat, Do NOT throw these little pieces of computer/tablet/Iphone out of your cell…. err window. These pieces will be sharp! Someone below could step on them. Also Do NOT perform this operation barefoot! Foot ware is not optional here! Remember: THINK SAFE! Using a broom and dustpan, be sure to clean up every last shred of shattered computer/tablet/Iphone. (I personally recommend the O- Cedar Angler as a “quality” broom that you could use for this operation. I feel that the actual make of the dustpan is not quite as important.)

    5.) Deposit said debris in a high quality plastic trash bag. (It may take more than one.) Be sure to place these bags in the proper recycle bins according to your local area’s municipal codes.

    6.) Sign back on and let us know how it went.

    Or, since you “want to be banned” so bad, you could just like not sign on to lohud. Wow, goal achieved.

  33. jacksquat June 2nd, 2013 at 3:32 am

    Hughes is 15th of all qualified MLB starters in fastball % thrown, yet a terrible 83rd (of 100) in fastball runs above average per 100 pitches (his fastball has a very negative value). Those two things do not go together. His slider is his only positive value pitch this year.

    Cliff Lee is #1 in that stat btw.

  34. igotid88 June 2nd, 2013 at 3:33 am

    jacksquat June 2nd, 2013 at 3:11 am
    Hughes probably should have gone with an off-speed pitch on the 2-2 count to Napoli. If I’m Napoli, I’m thinking “the bases are loaded, he doesn’t want to go to 3-2 and risk walking me, plus I’ll really know the fastball is coming then”. So he was probably sitting fastball. I would have thrown a change or curve. The problem is Hughes’ secondary pitches are inconsistent and he heavily favors his fastball, and that has always been his problem. He has a good fastball, but it’s too easy for hitters to be expecting it. He should mix his pitches more, and I think a two-seamer would really help him.
    —————–

    They were saying how Napoli was a pull hitter and has been working on going the other way. He went with the pitch. If this was last year he probably tries to pull and pops it up

  35. Chip June 2nd, 2013 at 6:45 am

    The Yankees have been saying that for a few years now, and as another writer said to me in the postgame clubhouse, Hughes has been saying the same things for a few years now as well. It’s not really Hughes’ fault — the repetitive comments, I mean — because the conversations always center on the same topics: Hughes throws a lot of fastballs, he gives up a lot of home runs, and in his seventh big league season, his career is still defined by inconsistency. What else is there to say?

    Hughes is what he is which is a super talented but inconsistent pitcher. You’re going to get good starts, you’re going to get bad starts and you don’t know which you’re going to get from start to start. We’ve seen this before with pitchers like AJ Burnett and Edwin Jackson.

    He’s a great asset to have in the back of the rotation, but the Yankees have enough back end pitchers (Nuno, Nova, Phelps, Marshall, Warren) that they don’t have to give Hughes the kind of money or years that it will take to sign him as a FA.

  36. Chip June 2nd, 2013 at 6:55 am

    Is it my imagination or has Chris Stewart been brutal defensively since coming back from his groin injury? I’ve counted at least 4 really easy passed balls with him back there starting in the Met series? And then last night after the cross-up with Hughes he glared out at the mound before going to get the ball with a runner advancing.

    If he’s not playing well defensively then what the heck is Girardi doing running him out there every day?

  37. cigator June 2nd, 2013 at 7:03 am

    Hughes just flat out stinks. Any other assessment is just bs. Pitchers like Hughes are a dime a dozen. Don’t want him resigned. If he never pitched for Yanks again they would be better off.

  38. Shame Spencer June 2nd, 2013 at 7:33 am

    Chip – Not your imagination at all. I said the same thing when he returned. He’s looked kinda awkward back there at times.

  39. mick June 2nd, 2013 at 7:41 am

    What is the point with this fixation on Hughes?
    Potential? Past performance?
    He is not a key to this team.
    I’m sure there are teams that would offer something for him.
    If he wants to come back next year, he can try but he would do better elsewhere.
    Pineda will get his job anyway and Nuno and Nova await…

  40. blake June 2nd, 2013 at 7:46 am

    I didnt see past the 2nd inning last night but Id imagine it went like most of Phil’s bad starts these days…..he challenged guys and lost either by just losin on a particular pitch or by missing locations.

    Hughes just never has developed a good plan B for getting hitters out…..he’s kinda a straight ahead hardball type pitcher that says here it is…..hit it. Sometimes they don’t and sometimes they do. He never has developed a good ability to control bat speed…..he doesn’t play with hitters balance minds much….he just tries to beat them on pitches and that’s not a very consistent way to get hitters out unless you have Verlander stuff and he doesn’t .

    Phelps on the other hand really controls bat speed well….he moves the ball around….cuts it sinks it…changes speeds etc…..he doesn’t have the stuff Hughes does but he gets outs in a different way.

    I like Phil a lot and really want him to succeed….but just the way he pitches he probably is better suited to a different division and ballpark if he’s never going to be able to change.

    He can challenge guys in SF and win a lot more than in Yankee stadium most likely

  41. austinmac June 2nd, 2013 at 7:49 am

    Hughes can’t put hitters away because he has one effective pitch, his fastball. We all know it’s coming.

    What do you expect Girardi to say? Ichiro is old, Wells looks hopeless, etc.? He has no choice but to be as positive as possible.

    Three and a half runs per game is terrible and not enough to win consistently. This isn’t 1963 and Koufax and Drysdale aren’t pitching half the games. If the offense does not improve, they will struggle to stay over .500.

    I was one who wanted Romine to play. Sadly, he is looking like he simply cannot hit.

  42. MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 7:51 am

    Blake-

    Good morning.

    It’s strange about Hughes.

    What happened to his so-called legendary command of his FB ?

    Wasn’t he the guy who was able to consistently spot his FB to all 4 quadrants ?

    He misses a lot w it and it costs him. Especially since he relies on it so much.

  43. pkyankfan69 June 2nd, 2013 at 7:51 am

    It was a beautiful night to watch a game, the rest far less enjoyable.. A big thanks to Phil and our pathetic offense for that clunker. Havn’t left a game early in awhile but after the Nava homer in the 8th I had enough… Game was over far before that though, offense mailed it in mid game.

    Also, not sure how it looked on TV but from my vantage point Wells looked slow as hell out in the field. He played a pretty lousy LF last night.

  44. blake June 2nd, 2013 at 7:53 am

    “What happened to his so-called legendary command of his FB ?”

    It’s wherever his curveball went in guess ….Hughes has very good control….he just doesn’t have comsistent command

  45. blake June 2nd, 2013 at 7:55 am

    The Yankee catching had just been horrific since Cervelli got hurt

  46. MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 7:55 am

    IMO the Yankees should seriously consider trading for a bat.

    A relatively young, dynamic one.

    Use your excess to make it happen.

  47. blake June 2nd, 2013 at 7:56 am

    Hey Adams got two hits and Clabourn was good again….. so there’s that :)

  48. Chip June 2nd, 2013 at 7:57 am

    Blake -

    You’ve been a huge advocate for retaining Hughes so I guess it says a lot that you’re starting to come around to the “they can’t sign him” side of things.

    I know it would go against the Yankee way, but with Nuno showing some good potential, Andy coming back and Phelps developing as he has been – I would love for the Yankees to consider moving Phil during the season. I’m sure that in a park that’s more forgiving to fly ball pitchers he’ll do great.

  49. Chip June 2nd, 2013 at 7:58 am

    MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 7:55 am
    IMO the Yankees should seriously consider trading for a bat.

    A relatively young, dynamic one.

    Use your excess to make it happen
    —————–

    Excess of what? Mid to back of the rotation starters? Aging stars?

  50. MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 7:58 am

    Blake-

    With his repetoire he needs better command.

    When he developed that slider I thought that would be the answer but it hasn’t panned out that way.

    He still relies on his FB.

    I thought maybe the slider would become more of an out pitch for him.

  51. blake June 2nd, 2013 at 8:00 am

    MTU,

    They need one bad……they have 3 good starters and a bunch of pretty good guys to round out the rotation that’ll sort themselves out over the season ….they have a good pen……they have an bad offense right now that’s ceiling is probably much closer to average than good IMO so yea Cash needs to be really working to find something at the deadline. The yanks historically haven’t done much at the deadline in recent years …..that won’t cut it this year if they are serious about tryin to bring 28 home

  52. MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 8:01 am

    Chip-

    Joba is expendable. One of Hughes/Nova/Phelps/Nuno. One of Heathcott, Austin, etc.

    That ought to be able to get someone’s attention ?

  53. Chip June 2nd, 2013 at 8:01 am

    I wonder if the Brewers would be agreeable to a Nova for Jonathan Lucroy deal?

  54. Madrugador June 2nd, 2013 at 8:01 am

    How can anyone say Hughes is super talented. His inconsistency doesn’t support that. CC had a bad game, gave up 7 runs but also gave us some distance. That is talent. Hughes blew that game and shredded the bull pen.
    Hughes may one day realize that he can’t locate his fastball and start relying on his offspeed stuff. Maybe that will give him more success but despite the shortage of starting pitching next year, I hope it is with another team.

  55. LGY June 2nd, 2013 at 8:03 am

    Unfortunately, my Phil Hughes and Vernon Wells bets with Pat M are looking like easy money, or rather in this case easy chocolate.

  56. Chip June 2nd, 2013 at 8:03 am

    Madrugador –

    The talent is there – the ability to harness that talent on a game in-game out basis is not.

  57. austinmac June 2nd, 2013 at 8:04 am

    The Yankees have told us to look at the back of players’ cards for expected production. Looking at the back of the cards for Wells, Ichiro, Youkilis, Stewart, Hafner and many of the rest paint a very bad picture. Putting on a Yankee uniform doesn’t make them younger or healthier.

    Yes, they need young bats desperately. Our excess isn’t going to get any. Who of you would give up a good bat for the inconsistent Hughes, Joba, Nova and the like? There are plenty of such players all over MLB.

    Too bad most of the minor league players have not had the years we need them to have. Mustelier looks like the only player who could help this year. I’m not seeing any other position players who could help this year or next.

  58. blake June 2nd, 2013 at 8:04 am

    “You’ve been a huge advocate for retaining Hughes so I guess it says a lot that you’re starting to come around to the “they can’t sign him” side of things.”

    Still think it depends….. It depends on the budget and it depends on the money we are talking about . #4 starters still have value and he his coming into his prime age so there is a price Id pay…..I’m just expecting it to be too high given the assumed budget.

    I still think Hughes will end up with an era around 4 if he stays healthy all year and that has value

  59. Madrugador June 2nd, 2013 at 8:05 am

    I don’t believe management is serious about #28 this year. They want to be competitive enough to sell tickets but that is it.

  60. Chip June 2nd, 2013 at 8:06 am

    Austinmac –

    Zoilo Almonte’s playing pretty well. As is JR Murphy.

    Plus, it just turned to June. There’s a lot of time left in the minor league season for players to improve their performance. Remember, for the most part this is their first time playing at the level they’re playing at.

  61. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:09 am

    Interesting season thus far. I am looking forward to what Dustin McGown can do. I’m not sure what Josh Johnson is, but maybe he’ll show up before the party’s over. Casey Jansen gets honours and Cecil has been a surprise.

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/z.....#038;rel=0

    I spent part of last night listening to the above calls by, Jerry Howarth, who like Tom Cheek, will one day be in the hall.

  62. Madrugador June 2nd, 2013 at 8:09 am

    OK Chip I accept your reasoning but if I were to compose beautiful music but no one ever heard it how would anyone know if I were talented?

  63. MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 8:10 am

    The Yankees have Hughes/Nova/Nunuo/Phelps/Warren/Pineda/Marshall.

    Make one or more availbale thru trade.

    I’m sure someone would be interested.

  64. Chip June 2nd, 2013 at 8:12 am

    Blake,

    I think Edwin Jackson is a good comparison for Hughes. He was 28 this winter, career ERA of 4.47 (compared to Phil at 4.48). Jackson walks more people at 3.5/9 IP to Hughes at 2.8, K’s a touch fewer but gives up fewer HRs as well.

    Jackson got 4 years $52 mil…figure with a slight increase due to year by year inflation of contracts and Hughes will come in between 4 and $52 – $56… too rich for what he is.

  65. austinmac June 2nd, 2013 at 8:12 am

    Hughes will never be above average unless he can get strikes with something other than his fastball. His other pitches are show me pitches. He slider to Napoli was 18″ outside. Everyone in the park knew a fastball was coming. A good MLB hitter will hit a fastball when they know it’s coming.

    All the other stuff are excuses. Starters need three good pitches. Hughes has one. And it isn’t enough when batters can expect it.

  66. MG June 2nd, 2013 at 8:14 am

    If I’m Hughes agent I’m telling him to get out of Yankee Stadium and pitch someplace that is more friendly to his pitching style.

    If I’m the Yankees and have all of these young pitchers coming through the system I don’t sign Hughes to another contract because if he hasn’t learned to limit the HRs by now he never will.

    Add those two together, plus the availability of Nuno now and possibly Pineda later in the season and trading him (plus Chamberlain, who isn’t needed) for an infielder who can hit could really improve the team.

  67. Chip June 2nd, 2013 at 8:14 am

    Madrugador June 2nd, 2013 at 8:09 am
    OK Chip I accept your reasoning but if I were to compose beautiful music but no one ever heard it how would anyone know if I were talented?
    —————–

    But the thing is, we’ve seen flashes of Phil’s talent when he’s got his game working.

  68. austinmac June 2nd, 2013 at 8:14 am

    MTU,

    Sure someone would take those pitchers. However, it is my strong opinion they would not bring back a good bat, and never a good young one. Would you give one up were you running another team?

  69. Madrugador June 2nd, 2013 at 8:16 am

    Still want to see more of Nuno/Phelps/Pineda before they are traded away.

  70. MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 8:16 am

    Mac-

    I like the new slider. Hughes doesn’t seem to use it as much lately.

    It was more than just a show me pitch IMO.

    He falls in love too much w his FB.

    And he really needs a pitch to help him induce more GB’s like a 2-seamer or split.

    Don’t think we’ll see it. He’ll need to find those w another club.

  71. blake June 2nd, 2013 at 8:19 am

    I agree that EJax is a good comp for a contract as they are similar pitchers results wise…. But i do think Hughes maybe has more room to grow just because he doesn’t walk people and some team might think they getting him in a better park for him could make a big difference and it might…..as I said there is a price Id sign Hughes for…..I just expect it will be higher than Id pay

  72. MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 8:19 am

    Mac-

    One of them plus Joba and another promising player or two and I might.

    For instance, if we went after Headley we could include Adams.

  73. blake June 2nd, 2013 at 8:20 am

    Here is an exercise: list the teams that could use a hughes this year and what they’d have to offer.

    Needs to be a contender that needs pitching and needs to have something the yanks would want in return. There aren’t a ton of matches really…..

  74. MG June 2nd, 2013 at 8:20 am

    I’ve always liked Hughes very much and thought he would develop into a better pitcher than he has because I thought he would learn how to read and miss bats more frequently.

    He really hasn’t done that.

    His last two starts have been very similar even though the results are vastly different-he threw the same pitches last night as he did against the Mets, he just got a couple of bloop hits against him last night before the bomb and the Mets hit some balls that stayed in the ballpark at Citifield that would have been long gone at Yankee Stadium.

    I will still root for Hughes to pitch a great game every time he’s out there as a Yankee, I just think that Nuno is a better rotation option for them right now and they can trade Hughes to a contending team that needs pitching now for a player who might help the Yankees either now or next year.

  75. Madrugador June 2nd, 2013 at 8:22 am

    You are right Chip, we have seen flashes. I would not count his Citi Field performance as one of them. The park held his pitches and at YS that game would have been lost. I am satisfied to settle for a bright light and I can live without the flashes.
    Austinmac summed Hughes up very well.

  76. MG June 2nd, 2013 at 8:23 am

    The Yankees can have all the great pitching they want but this is a different era than the ’60s when Koufax and Drysdale could eke out 2-1 and 3-2 wins all the time, if they want to contend they have to start scoring more runs and soon or they could find themselves 7 or 8 games out by the ASB.

  77. Chip June 2nd, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Two deals:

    Nova for Jonathan LuCroy

    Hughes, Ichiro and Gumbs to the Padres for Chris Denorfia and Kyle Blanks.

  78. Madrugador June 2nd, 2013 at 8:28 am

    I am not as confident as binder Joe that this team will find an offense. Maybe after Granderson an Jeter return?

  79. MG June 2nd, 2013 at 8:29 am

    I also don’t buy into the modern ‘strikeouts don’t mean anything’ mentality in baseball.

    That might be fine for teams with players who combine strikeouts with a reasonably high rate of walks and HRs but for average teams it is the kiss of death.

    Putting the ball in play consistently means there is always a chance of something good happening, a strikeout eliminates that.

    It’s not going to change anything, the Yankees hitters are their hitters, but they are striking out far too much, particularly guys who don’t have much power like Gardner and Nix, their K rates are just way too high.

  80. austinmac June 2nd, 2013 at 8:29 am

    MTU,

    Marshall has been awful this year. So has Hughes. Neither Phelps nor Nova have shown consistency. Look at their stats. Nuno was released last year. He might be a serviceable starter or might not. Joba is throwing harder than he has in years, but does a team trust his head?

    You have to give up good to get good. Giving up low end guys get low end in return. Even combining several of them doesn’t get good talent.

    I wish they would bring up your man Musty. He has been hitting. Murphy is slumping. The catching looks awful but no solutions exist. None of Flores, Austin, Williams or Heathcott are hitting .260. Ramirez and Depaula could possibly bring something, but can we afford to give them up?

    I would like to find more hope

  81. pkyankfan69 June 2nd, 2013 at 8:31 am

    Why would anyone want Ichiro and his sub .300 OBP and no power?

    Giving him 2 years this offseason was all about bringing in “star power” to sell tickets, the move had nothing to do with winning.

  82. MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 8:32 am

    OK Mac.

    I tried to buck you up.

    Guess it didn’t work.

    I see it differently. You think I overestimate those guys. I think you underestimate them.

    It’s cool.

    :(

  83. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:33 am

    They are going to lay down grass in Skydome ( oops, Rogers Centre ), but have to give a couple of years for the Argos to find a home. That’s fair seeing that Doug Flutie brought good times here, along with Joe Barnes and Conredge Holloway. I’m not exactly sure why we need real grass as the artificial concrete was fine 30 years ago. Granted, it probably cut Moseby short a bit, but on the whole it was fine. The present Jays should be taking advantage of their superficial ways and field an astro charged unit. The funny thing is when novices up here appeal for an open air venue. I suggest they camp out at the site of old Exhibition Stadium for a few days: mind you, the, ” Disaster by the lake “, had its inherent qualities. Still, I like to know there’s going to be a game when I blow six hours of my day.

  84. austinmac June 2nd, 2013 at 8:34 am

    MTU,

    Could we have some positional players about which we don’t have to say it’s early? Sanchez is about it. Almonte is at .280, Murphy in the .270s. Both may play in the majors. Neither is highly rated.

    When the guy who does chats about the minor leagues for BA was asked what minor league player from all of baseball he expects to get traded, he said Sanchez. Let’s hope not.

  85. austinmac June 2nd, 2013 at 8:37 am

    MTU,

    I simply look at the players’ stats and think how they look to other teams. I hope you are right and they all have value.

  86. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:38 am

    Austin, you got that Nordmende working yet?

  87. joeman June 2nd, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Tex and the stiff rode in on the white horses to save the day…..2/14 combined…another K for Gardner & he’s now on pace for 150 K’s this season

  88. MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Mac-

    I do not think the Yankees have any MiLB players they consider untouchable including Sanchez.

    I’d like to see them arrive at a point where they feel they have least 1 or 2 of them.

    Guys Cashman just hangs the phone up over.

    To me that would be a signal that their Farm System has attained the proper level.

  89. bigdan22 June 2nd, 2013 at 8:40 am

    I don’t know why this is so hard for folks to figure out. Phil is a power pitcher in his mind only. Like most struggling professionals, he lacks self-awareness. He thinks he can throw his fb up in the zone and be consistently effective. The evidence is in. The jury has spoken. He cannot.

    Phil will always be a fb dominant pitcher. That’s his best pitch. His secondary pitches will always be secondary. He needs to develop a 2-seamer and then reconstruct his arsenal to get ML hitters out. Hard to do in the MLs but maybe in the off-season. For somebody else.

  90. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:41 am

    MTU, sorry for your loss, just come around here if you need to feel better :)

  91. joeman June 2nd, 2013 at 8:41 am

    just saying & it’s a long way to go but the B’s got one

  92. pkyankfan69 June 2nd, 2013 at 8:42 am

    I hope the Yanks don’t panic and start trading away the future Sanchez/Austin/Ramirez/etc… One solid bat is not enough to turn this offense around and we don’t have enough to get a star caliber bat in return. If it were me, I’d just sit back and cross my fingers that our middle of line up guys start to mash.

    If they do trade away our excess, which is clearly back end starters and righty relievers, I hope we get prospects in return.

  93. MTU June 2nd, 2013 at 8:43 am

    Thanks Mills.

    Appreciate the kind sentiment.

    I usually adjust quickly to things.

  94. austinmac June 2nd, 2013 at 8:43 am

    Jill’s,

    I haven’t tried yet. I am moving and will get to it on the other side.

  95. bigdan22 June 2nd, 2013 at 8:44 am

    Best value move on the trading front. Couple Sanchez and Phelps. Forget about Hughes and Joba. Sanchez because he’s the Yanks no. 1 prospect (the Yanks should always trade their no. 1 prospect, as I’ve argued so pursuasively before) and Phelps because he’s a back-end over-achieving starter who right now is replaceable. That package is worth something. May have to add another piece but its a good start.

    And btw, Neal is the one who should get the ML shot now, not Musty. Although Musty should get a shot this year too.

  96. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:45 am

    Joe, if Gardner’s striking out a lot, he should be in my city :D Very little discipline up here.

  97. joeman June 2nd, 2013 at 8:47 am

    jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:45 am
    Joe, if Gardner’s striking out a lot, he should be in my city :D Very little discipline up here.

    ——————————————
    you got room for him & what would you give back

  98. joeman June 2nd, 2013 at 8:49 am

    Gardner,Cervilli,Joba,Youkilis & Hughes you can have them all

  99. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:51 am

    For Gardner? Problem is, Gose is waiting, and I can’t wait to witness him every day.

  100. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:54 am

    Oh my, Joe, you’re putting quite the allotment out at the curb today; I do hope for your benefit, they take it all.

  101. joeman June 2nd, 2013 at 8:54 am

    jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:51 am
    For Gardner? Problem is, Gose is waiting, and I can’t wait to witness him every day.
    ———————————–
    should be up with the team now

  102. joeman June 2nd, 2013 at 8:55 am

    jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:54 am
    Oh my, Joe, you’re putting quite the allotment out at the curb today; I do hope for your benefit, they take it all.

    ——————————
    I’ll take a bag of balls

  103. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 8:59 am

    Joe, yes, Gose should be born free running around already.

    As far as the bag of balls thing goes, I’d be quite happy with the deal at my door, Jim.

  104. Madrugador June 2nd, 2013 at 9:00 am

    Bigdan-
    Neal has some gaudy numbers at Scranton but has been around. Signed as a FA this year I am not holding my breath for him. He and Musty should get a shot if the returning vets can’t perform any longer.
    Any way, I’d like to see some players that at least provide a hopeful view of the future.

  105. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 9:02 am

    Anybody need, Colby Rasmus?

  106. joeman June 2nd, 2013 at 9:02 am

    joeman June 2nd, 2013 at 8:49 am
    Gardner,Cervilli,Joba,Youkilis & Hughes you can have them all

    ——————————————
    alright then I’ll give you all of them just for jose

  107. joeman June 2nd, 2013 at 9:04 am

    jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 9:02 am
    Anybody need, Colby Rasmus?

    —————————-
    is his dad still his agent

  108. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 9:05 am

    Joe, you don’t want Jose, as his end is always near.

  109. joeman June 2nd, 2013 at 9:05 am

    new one>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  110. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Joe, yeah, the dad is perpetually hovering.

  111. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 9:06 am

    New one,….just like the old one

  112. blake June 2nd, 2013 at 9:07 am

    “I also don’t buy into the modern ‘strikeouts don’t mean anything’ mentality in baseball.”

    One of my least favorite ” new age” things about the game. I hate strikeouts and I do think they matter a lot

  113. jmills June 2nd, 2013 at 9:11 am

    I know, its crazy blake. There’s a few younguns up here posting Jackson Pollock sabermetrics, one of which said hitting 400 doesn’t matter!

  114. Locke June 2nd, 2013 at 9:27 am

    From MLB Trade Rumors:

    The Dodgers might not be in as strong of a position for Robinson Cano as they initially appeared. Clayton Kershaw is going to go for ~$200MM and the team might not be able to take another contract in that range. As Josh Kosman and Mark DeCambre of the New York Post reported earlier this week, the club will have to commit a greater percentage of their deal to revenue sharing than the originally thought. That could cost them more than $1B over 25 years and that could affect their ability to maintain skyhigh payrolls.

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