The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Hughes disappoints again

Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on Jun 20, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Phil HughesHere’s a slice of Phil Hughes’ season, his last eight outings: bad start, really bad start, good start, good start, bad start, good start, bad start, bad start. The latest one was the second game of the doubleheader Wednesday night when he allowed five runs and a season-high 10 hits over six innings in the Yankees’ 6-0 loss to the Dodgers. It marked the fifth time he has given up at least five runs. He has a staff-high six losses to go with three wins, and his ERA is up to 5.09 after 14 starts.

Asked at what point he needs to start seeing some more consistency from Hughes, Joe Girardi said, “Now. We need all of our players to be consistent. … Right now, he’s struggling with that.”

He’s a perplexing case. You look at Hughes’ 14 starts, and seven of them could be described as good and seven could be described as bad. It’s certainly not a good way to chase a new contract. This may be somebody else’s problem next season. For now, Girardi could use that steadier work. There’s certainly talent here. It’s just visible half the time.

“I haven’t really thought about moving Phil out of the rotation,” Girardi said. “I think he’s capable of doing a good job for us. But right now, he’s struggling.

“I think it’s location for him … location of the fastball, staying out of long counts,” Girardi said. “I think he is (still learning). I think he gives it his best every time he goes out there.”

Ivan Nova is waiting for a return here. He’s 2-0 with a 2.04 ERA in three starts for Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, with two good ones sandwiched around a so-so one. Michael Pineda has begun his 30-day rehab clock, but he has made only one start, allowing one run and two hits in 4 1/3 for Single-A Tampa.

Hughes indicated that he hasn’t been thinking about Nova or Pineda lurking in the wings and possibly taking his spot.

“My only concern is pitching well,” Hughes said. “Things I can’t control, I don’t concern myself with.”

Hughes has come to one conclusion: “I have to be better. That’s for sure.”

The Yankees showed their inconsistency in the doubleheader with a good first game and the bad nightcap, mixed results, especially offensively for them, as well as for Don Mattingly in his return, although he appreciated the love from the fans in his brief stay. Here’s the link to my story on the ups and downs of a long day. There’s also a link at the top of the story to a video I shot of Girardi talking about managing his way through this injury onslaught. Also, the Yankees got to see firsthand what all the fuss is about. Here’s my notebook article led by how they did against Cuban rookie phenom Yasiel Puig, including the showdown with Mariano Rivera, plus items on Zoilo Almonte, Fernando Martinez, the latest on the A-Rod Biogenesis situation and Vernon Wells’ horrendous slump.

Photo by The Associated Press.

 
 

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234 Responses to “Hughes disappoints again”

  1. Frankg June 20th, 2013 at 8:35 am

    Not making excuses, but some of the balls hit off of Hughes that were important were not that hard hit.

  2. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 8:42 am

    Totally agree with Girardi.

    Hughes problems are all about location.

    Especially with his 2ndary stuff.

    Not sure it gets ironed out in pinstripes ?

  3. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 8:43 am

    “I think it’s location for him … location of the fastball, staying out of long counts,” Girardi said. “I think he is (still learning). I think he gives it his best every time he goes out there.”
    ———————–
    Good morning

    I believe David Cone mentioned that Hughes leads all mlb starters in throwing 1st pitch strikes, is among the top 5, in throwing 2nd pitch strikes, but is in the bottom 5 in number pitches thrown/batter.

    Maybe time to put him in BP where he might do a better job and attract some trade interest.

    Thoughts?

  4. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 8:44 am

    A few, but by and large he was hit hard. the fastball was dead straight and breaking ball missed most of the time.

    If Nova is strong in his next start I’d make the switch, put Hughes in the pen and send down Warren and have him start.

    I’d also consider swapping Claiborne for Betances. Dellin was strong again last night.

    Offensively, I pretty much give up. This offense is awful and options are virtually non-existent. Cashman should sell a kidney for a RH bat. AND Joe needs to let Hafner DH against LHP because he can’t be any worse and his OPS versus LHP this year is decent.

  5. NYYROC June 20th, 2013 at 8:45 am

    Something MTU wrote @ 7:25..about PH leading league in % of 1st and 2nd pitch strikes..something to that effect…is why some team would take a chance on him. We all can see he is a “swing and miss” offspeed pitch away from being good. He hasn’t figured it out in NY. Maybe some other PC looks at him and says “I can fix him.” He has some talent..he has something to work with. Just isn’t happening in NY.

  6. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 8:45 am

    Good morning MTU.

  7. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 8:47 am

    YT-

    That could happen, if as 86 pointed out, Nova continues to throw well at AAA.

    86-

    I wouldn’t move Claiborne out just yet.

    Other than the last time out he’s been fantastic.

  8. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 8:48 am

    Buenos dias YT.

    Que tal ?

    :)

  9. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 8:50 am

    If the Yankees still want to keep Hughes now would be an excellent time to offer an him extension.

    When his perceived value is down.

    Will they do it ?

    Nah.

    :(

  10. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 8:51 am

    Morning MTU and YT

    I wasn’t thinking Claiborne should be out, but Betances is performing at a very high level.

    Frankly if I could trade Joba and call up Betances I’d rather do that.

    Memo to David Robertson — THROW STRIKES DUDE

  11. blake June 20th, 2013 at 8:51 am

    Hughes used to have pretty good fastball command…..I guess that’s wherever his curveball is

  12. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 8:55 am

    Hanley Ramirez–13:$15.5M, 14:$16M
    award bonus: $50,000 for All Star
    extension does not include a no-trade clause

    ———–

    Andre Ethier–13:$13.5M, 14:$15.5M, 15:$18M, 16:$16M, 17:$18M, 18:$17.5M club option ($2.5M buyout)
    2018 salary guaranteed with 550 plate appearances in 2017 or 1,100 PAs in 2017-18
    perks: use of stadium luxury box for 8 games each season

    Let’s see I’m trying to come up with a trade with the Dodgers that nets the Yankees Yasiel Puig and gives the Dodgers Robinson Cano and a window to sign him to an extension! :)

    What other pieces do the Yankees have to take and what else do you give the Dodgers? Ethier? Ramirez?

  13. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 8:56 am

    I agree with Girardi that Hughes’s problem is location and that he is still learning. He sometimes just doesn’t seem to have a feel for his secondary pitches. When he does and is locating, he can be very good. Again he will also give you good starts and is one of our back end pitchers. He does need to give us a better chance to win, needs to locate in that first inning, and he needs to have a backup plan when he can’t locate certain pitches. I’m still not going to throw him under the bus or advocate moving him out of the rotation. There is no guarantee that he will be as bad as his last two starts or that any replacement is going to be better than him.

  14. blake June 20th, 2013 at 8:57 am

    Hughes and Boone Logan for Sean Gilmartin and Jose Peraza

  15. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 8:58 am

    Tyler Austin is being victimized by the Trenton park factor. His away splits are .300/.396/.469. His .865 OPS is something like .235 points higher than his home OPS.

  16. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:00 am

    Puig in the DH:

    4-9, 4 runs, a homer to the opposite field, a stolen base.

    Why can’t the Yankees find a kid with his tools:

  17. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:02 am

    Slade is up to .252 on the year and almost has his OPS to .700. He hasn’t rally had a light bulb moment but is just steadily playing better at AA

  18. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:03 am

    “Why can’t the Yankees find a kid with his tools:”

    Well they found him like everyone else….Cashman just couldn’t “stand in front of Hal and recommend signing him”…..he’s apparently perfectly fine wasting Hals money on 2013 though

  19. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Blake

    Looked up Gilmartin a 23 yo lefty with Braves AAA. He’s 3-7 with 5.83 ERA and BAA of .308. What is it that you like about him?

  20. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Slade’s been very good at times, just inconsistent. Hoping to see a few games during the home stand in the next week to see how the boys’ ABs look in person. And I am hoping Pineda has a good outing tonight in Tampa, and we get him for a start in Trenton next week. Fingers crossed.

  21. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Yankee Trader says:
    June 20, 2013 at 9:04 am
    Blake

    Looked up Gilmartin a 23 yo lefty with Braves AAA. He’s 3-7 with 5.83 ERA and BAA of .308. What is it that you like about him?

    He’s left handed…..Peraza is the guy iD want really . I think there should be a match out there for Hughes where the yanks can get value back

  22. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    The inability to sign any “now” players speaks volumes. Even if you had a budget set up going back two/three years, how do you not sign anyone young and with bat speed to help out the cause? Just p*ss poor planning: no signings/no trades to get younger while putting all your eggs in the dumpster diving basket… It just shows no vision or creativity at all, let alone a sense of the reality of your team’s needs. Arrgh.

  23. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    Austinmac,

    Jose Ramirez like dominated AA the minute he got here and has already been moved to AAA after not even 3 mos. at Trenton. What more do you want from the kid?

    If he’s not on people’s lists, that’s their error. Guy can dial it to 96, 97 and has plenty of run even when he’s in low 90s, and has that changeup, commands both well. Slider can be plus, still working on it. Arm may be a little tired ATM.
    ////

    Betances has been basically un-hittable, and isn’t really walking people. Might as well turn him loose – he was also out of BP in AFL, so let ‘er rip. Or trade him to someone who wants to actually use him.

  24. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    Blake-

    Had the Yankees signed Puig ,he’d still be in in Trenton. I believe the Dodgers brought him up directly from AA.

  25. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Yankee Trader says:
    June 20, 2013 at 9:08 am
    Blake-

    Had the Yankees signed Puig ,he’d still be in in Trenton. I believe the Dodgers brought him up directly from AA.

    Maybe …. But they’d have to be considering a call up as bad as their OF is

  26. Frankg June 20th, 2013 at 9:17 am

    The Yankees did have a version of Puig, with respect to hitting only—Montero.

  27. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    JAP-

    I remember Ramirez had a nice easy, fluid motion when throwing in ST.

  28. longtimefan June 20th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    lots of different opinions on Hughes and all have merit, talent is there but at times he looks dis-interested and just going thru the motions or maybe he just sucks.

  29. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 9:19 am

    To be fair the Dodgers scouting director who signed Puig admitted his own # 2 in command told him he was insane offering Puig $ 42 M.

    There is risk/reward in all these situations. Obviously Chatman, Cespedes, Darvish and Puig look like they are well worth the $$$ they got, but it’s not like everyone in baseball was making mega-million offers for these guys.

    Everyone wants them now, but that’s $ 200 M in commitments.

    Not sure if now is the best time to move Hughes in a trade. Won’t get much back…. but if I’m an NL General Manager in a big yard I’d make a play.

  30. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 9:22 am

    Any way, it almost doesn’t matter with this offense. YF, right, the guy knew austerity was in their future, where were the moves to compensate? This is why the “It’s not Cash – it’s the owners” thing feels so disingenuous.

    You knew the score, yet did effectively nothing to get younger and better. Your one “big” move was to get rid of your top hitting prospect for a young pitcher who has yet to throw a single pitch for you, and your answer for compensatory offense has been Vernon Wells and Kevin Youkilis.

    Aye, me.

  31. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:22 am

    “Not sure if now is the best time to move Hughes in a trade. Won’t get much back…. but if I’m an NL General Manager in a big yard I’d make a play.”

    Maybe not but the next month is the only time

  32. Doc Iac June 20th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Not sure if now is the best time to move Hughes in a trade. Won’t get much back…. but if I’m an NL General Manager in a big yard I’d make a play.

    —-

    ya i agree, maybe he could hit and then he’d actually have some value

  33. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    Scouts comments about Puig from USA Today Sports Weekly June 12-18, 2013:

    ” He makes everyone else on the field look like they’re moving in slow motion.”

    “If you ain’t got a breaking ball, you may as well chuck and duck.”

  34. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:24 am

    KC sits only 5 games out of a playoff spot … Wonder what they’d give for Phil

  35. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Don’t see anything happening until the TD.

    Yankees need time to evaluate their situation and to let the trade market form.

  36. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:26 am

    You can see Puig one time and see the fast twitch dynamite in his body

  37. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    Posted this earlier:

    Good morning

    I believe David Cone mentioned that Hughes leads all mlb starters in throwing 1st pitch strikes, is among the top 5, in throwing 2nd pitch strikes, but is in the bottom 5 in number pitches thrown/batter.

    Maybe time to put him in BP where he might do a better job and attract some trade interest.

    Thoughts?

  38. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 9:27 am

    Maybe …. But they’d have to be considering a call up as bad as their OF is
    ///

    No worries, Rosie Ruiz’s brother (nod to YF :) ) can come up and help us. :) I think he’s 35 years old so he’ll fit right in. He’s hitting about .450 or something after 10 ABs or so (I just made that up, but he is hitting over .400).

  39. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Ichiro Is finally starting to contribute so that’s good

  40. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    “fast twitch dynamite”.

    Does the Military use it ?

    :)

  41. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    A team like the Royals could go for Hughes.
    Altho they would lowball us, they might be interested in striking lightning in a bottle and not worry about next year and his FA.

  42. bruceb June 20th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Don’t go along with this “he’s still learning” nonsense. Phil’s 26 now and has been pitching in the Bigs for seven seasons (five as a regular member of the rotation).

    For some time now, we’ve known he isn’t going to become the ace we had hoped for. Now the question is can he even be a serviceable 4th or 5th starter. My answer to that is possibly…but not in New York.

    If we aren’t going to offer him a new contract, which seems the most likely scenario now, then surely we should trade him – even if it’s for a minor prospect? We could then bring back Nova in the short-term and if he doesn’t work out, give Nuno another shot once he is off the DL. At least Nuno knows what he’s got and uses it. Hughes has just become so predictable and doesn’t have a put-out pitch.

  43. PacoDooley June 20th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    I feel like this was a watershed start for Hughes – sort of marks his end as a relied upon starter in NY. He will get more starts, but I think it is now all but certain that he will get dropped from the rotation the moment there is a decent alternative (Pineda?). I think he moves to the pen and is effective there, making that a net gain for the NYY and a net loss of Hughes in his impending free-agency…

  44. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    MTU says:
    June 20, 2013 at 9:28 am
    “fast twitch dynamite”.

    Does the Military use it ?

    They could…..puig missiles!

  45. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Blake-

    Look at the AL MLB team pitching stats:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/t...../league/al

    Doesn’t look like KC would have any use for Hughes.

  46. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    JAP-

    I remember Ramirez had a nice easy, fluid motion when throwing in ST.
    ///

    Yep. He effortlessly generates velocity.

  47. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    It would likely make more sense to trade Hughes than to just drop him into the Pen.

    We have plenty of relievers.

  48. bruceb June 20th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    Yankee Trader

    I think that’s a very good suggestion, which I didn’t read until after I had posted. Hughes has done nothing but excel in the pen so far in his career. May well be worth another shot there, especially if they trade Joba for a bat.

  49. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    If we aren’t going to offer him a new contract, which seems the most likely scenario now, then surely we should trade him
    ======================
    Totally agree.
    He serves no purpose here. 4-5 starters are easy to find.
    In fact, his body language indicates he can’t wait to get out of here.
    Can see he and Joba gone by TD.

  50. PacoDooley June 20th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    Most depressing thing about watching them lose to the Dodgers is seeing another impact IFA doing the damage for another team.

  51. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    “I feel like this was a watershed start for Hughes ”

    It feels like it…..I’m really disappointed as I thought he had turned a corner if not as an ace but at least as a solid starter. If given 30 starts I still think he might figure it out and be good a lot of the time the rest of the way but as it it the Yankess probably can’t afford to keep running him out there as bad as there offense is and that they have other options

  52. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    Blake-

    Are they stealthy too ?

    If so, wow !

    Let’s get some of our own.

    :)

  53. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    bruceb June 20th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Don’t go along with this “he’s still learning” nonsense. Phil’s 26 now and has been pitching in the Bigs for seven seasons (five as a regular member of the rotation).
    ///

    bruce, it’s not “nonsense”, it’s where he is in his evolution, which is entirely inconvenient for the Yankees, since his contract is up and since they have no room for error from their pitching staff because they have no bats to speak of.

  54. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Welp, after split that shortened series, we have another 4 game set. We’ve played….. four of these so far this year. Is that a little odd or is it just me?

    We need better than a split against the Rays.

  55. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Are they stealthy too ?”

    Nope. Loud and flashy

  56. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:36 am

    Hughes has had enough time to figure it out.
    There are no guarantees in baseball but Pineda and Nova are ready and waiting.
    Phelps is a so much better pitcher than Hughes.
    What does he have that Hughes hasn’t found?

  57. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:37 am

    Now look at current MLB league Team pitching stats:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/pitching

    Is there a team with a big ballpark, still in realistic contention for one of the playoff spots that could use Hughes?

  58. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Hughes is nothing but inconsistent.
    He’s had enough time to grow and doesn’t want to pitch here.

  59. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Frankg June 20th, 2013 at 9:17 am

    The Yankees did have a version of Puig, with respect to hitting only—Montero.
    ///

    Yeah, and if the bloom had come off of that Sept. romance, and he had struggled, he’d still be 23 years old with a great affinity for the ballpark. And he still had options.

  60. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    I said this yesterday but this just really ticked me off…..I defend Cano a lot and this notion about him not hustling etc is mostly narrative…..but yesterday in the 4th when he hit that ball in the gap and then coasted to 2B in about 3rd gear thinking he had a sure double and let Ethier lolly pop one in there to throw him out …..it was a remote throwing moment for me…..

    They need more from him both in performance and leadership……that can’t happen. If he wants that big contract then that can’t happen. Jeter won be around forever and we are seeing now life without him and it’s not good …..the team seems rudderless.

    Do better Robbie…..you’re the best player and the example

  61. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    Mick-

    Phelps has excellent command and he knows how to pitch.

    He makes his arsenal work for him.

    His command of his 2ndary stuff is waaaaay better.

  62. Tackelberry June 20th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    Speaking of Ramirez, Yanks should seriously take a long look at Manny. In know what a headache he can be, but he can still mash! Playing over in Hawaii right now.

  63. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    blake-
    Hal won’t let Cano hold him hostage either.
    You can bet , if he makes a reasonable offer, and Cano turns it down, he will let him walk.

  64. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    MTU-

    The only reason to drop him into the pen, where he has had good success, is that this might, somewhat, increase his trade value in the coming weeks.

    No??? Maybe???? Nah????? :)

  65. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    I think we talked in the off season about how retaining all their assets heading into the year was a risk.. they took the risk and they’ll have to deal. I still don’t think Hughes has bottomed out in terms of value or anything.. but they could have traded him coming off a solid season. Now any team dealing with the Yanks has some more leverage. It’s really a shame Grandy has been hurt this entire first half.

  66. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    Phelps has excellent command and he knows how to pitch.
    ===============
    MTU
    It boggles the mind how Hughes has not learned how to pitch yet.
    Is Phelps just smarter?

  67. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    YT-

    Nope. I believe that would only decrease it.

    :(

  68. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    mick says:
    June 20, 2013 at 9:43 am
    blake-
    Hal won’t let Cano hold him hostage either.
    You can bet , if he makes a reasonable offer, and Cano turns it down, he will let him walk.

    6/150…. Take it or leave it…… You have 3 weeks to decide

  69. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    blake June 20th, 2013 at 7:51 am

    “I don’t trade Cano, Granderson, Hughes or Andy because I don’t think you’ll get value for them”

    You don’t think you’ll get value for Cano? You would….
    ——————————–
    You would get something for him certainly, but not anywhere near equal value.

    First of all, the number of teams interested would be very small. You’re not only looking for a contender, but you’re looking for a contender that feels they have a chance to retain him. So while I’m sure the A’s would love to add a player like Cano they’re not going to trade for him knowing that they can’t keep him.

    Now look at the contending teams and their 2b situations:

    St. Louis has Matt Carpenter playing very well
    Atlanta has Dan Uggla who stinks but they’re tied to him
    Rangers have Kinsler and Profar
    Boston has Pedroia
    Orioles have no one – but it doesn’t matter since the Yankees won’t trade him to Baltimore or Boston
    Reds have Brandon Phillips
    Cleveland has Jason Kipnis and couldn’t afford Cano anyway
    San Francisco just re-signed Marco Scutaro
    Arizona has Aaron Hill under a long term contract.
    Detroit is getting solid production from Omar Infante

    So of the four teams that need upgrades at 2b two of them have locked guys up for the long term at the position (Arizona and Atlanta) and two of them couldn’t afford to retain Cano as a free agent (Baltimore and Oakland); so none of those teams are going to give you a ton for Cano.

  70. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:45 am

    The only reason to drop him into the pen, where he has had good success, is that this might, somewhat, increase his trade value in the coming weeks.
    =============
    YT

    Don’t you think Hughes has more value as a starter.?
    Other teams can see he is not happy here and needs another chance.

  71. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    6/150…. Take it or leave it…… You have 3 weeks to decide
    ==================================
    25 per, not bad. Do you want to be a Yankee like your father said or not?

  72. jacksquat June 20th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Rich in NJ June 20th, 2013 at 12:33 am
    Not wanting Ichiro was about 2014 if they are going to shrink payroll, but if you only hit for AVG and don’t walk or SLG, you really have to hit .320.

    Since Granderson went down again (May 24):

    .329/.376/.405

  73. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Pitchers are essentially only as good as their last starts at least according to people here. So, let’s at least see what those pitchers knocking at the door are up to in their respective next games before handing them Hughes’ rotation spot. You just don’t move pitchers in and out of the SP no matter how frustrated you are with them unless you know the replacement pitcher is going to be as good or better. I still think right now that Hughes from the back end even with his inconsistencies is more reliable than the MiLB choices. Putting Hughes in the bullpen makes no sense right now. Trading him unless you get decent value back also makes no sense. And again be careful about evaluating a pitcher on a few bad (or good) starts. And FTR, I expect to see the good Hughes again this year. And pitching with no margin for error really doesn’t help matters. And yeah, Shame, lack of leverage is an issue with all of these players who we either didn’t extend or likely won’t deal for a decent return. We need to start doing business differently.

  74. jacksquat June 20th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    blake June 20th, 2013 at 8:18 am
    Cashman is a browser at the trade deadline….. He window shops but always thinks everything is too expensive

    Or is told everything is too expensive.

  75. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    “Phelps has excellent command and he knows how to pitch.
    ===============
    MTU
    It boggles the mind how Hughes has not learned how to pitch yet.
    Is Phelps just smarter?”

    I think phelps just has a better feel for controlling bat speed and manipulating the ball…..Hughes has almost no pitchability…..it’s just all hard stuff and challenge pitching .

    Hughes actually has better control than phelps probably if we’re just talking about throwing strikes ….but part of that is because phelps often errs outside the zone whereas when Hughes misses it’s right down the middle. Phelps may throw less overall strikes but he throws more quality strikes

  76. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    Mick-

    Not likely the issue IMO.

    It’s just that Phelps 2ndary stuff is so much better.

    Particularly in regards to how well he commands it.

    Phelps has exellent offspeed stuff.

    If his fastball deserts him on a given day he has the ability to work around it somewhat.

    Hughes can’t do that. he’s entirely FB dependent.

    Phelps 2ndary stuff is actuall more like Nova’s.

    He is sort of a cross between Hughes and Nova. Combining some of the best of both.

    He is definitely smart out there, and is one heck of a competitior.

    It’s why I was and continue to be a fan of his and why I still do not think he has reached his cieling yet.

    :)

  77. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Heck, you could flip flop Warren and Hughes and feel comfortable.
    They both pitched yesterday.
    Give Hughes that message, what do you have to lose.
    In fact, it might just wake him up…

  78. jacksquat June 20th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    austinmac June 20th, 2013 at 8:19 am
    Watching Puig perform makes me scratch my head when I think the Yankees made no offer at all. He is like watching someone with Mantle’s physical ability and the crack or cracked scouts couldn’t see that? I am no professional scout, but it took me five minutes to go wow.

    Yeah, I had the same reaction. I didn’t know he could run like that for one thing. He’s kind of raw, but damn…

  79. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Chip-

    The Dodgers need an upgrade at second, and could use him, especially if he agrees to an extension during a window if the Yankees permit it in a trade.

    I jokingly mentioned if there was a way the Yankees could get Puig by trading Cano and the Yankees taking on someone like Ethier or Ramirez.

    Look above at the 8:55 post.

    I know Puig is untouchable but Maybe??????????? No??????? Nah??????????

  80. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Tackelberry June 20th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    Speaking of Ramirez, Yanks should seriously take a long look at Manny. In know what a headache he can be, but he can still mash! Playing over in Hawaii right now.
    ////

    They will never sign him, but I would. He’s one of the greatest right-handed hitters ever to play. & he’d at least be entertaining. You could park him behind Cano – bet he’d get better pitches to hit.

    If he can’t hit any more, make him the hitting coach :) He would probably make a very good one. All of the Dodgers lauded his hitting advice. He’s obsessed with the art of hitting and has been since his Washing ton Heights youth.

    Never happen, though.

  81. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:54 am

    If his fastball deserts him on a given day he has the ability to work around it somewhat.
    ==================================
    Phelps is indeed a battler..

  82. blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:54 am

    6/150 is a lot if money and is very fair at Cano’s age… If somebody wants to give him 200 then let them

  83. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Phelps is also older than Hughes was when he came up.. And Phil has been trying to learn how to pitch with a different skill set than he had in the minors and his early career. I would never toss Hughes in the pen, it would only diminish his value. They need to trade him and do it soon.. only problem is he’s been giving other teams more leverage lately.

  84. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    Hal is not going to give the farm over to Cano when he has his budget constraints over his head and he will mention this to Jay Z.

  85. Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    Mick-

    You are right. Hughes would have more value, in a trade as a starter, but due to his consistent inconsistently starts, who might want him now?

    Have to go everyone. As always enjoyed the morning conversation. Will check back later.

    Have a great day.

  86. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Yankee Trader June 20th, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Chip-

    The Dodgers need an upgrade at second, and could use him, especially if he agrees to an extension during a window if the Yankees permit it in a trade.

    I jokingly mentioned if there was a way the Yankees could get Puig by trading Cano and the Yankees taking on someone like Ethier or Ramirez.

    Look above at the 8:55 post.

    I know Puig is untouchable but Maybe??????????? No??????? Nah??????????
    ————————-

    Trader –

    Dodgers are in worse shape than the Yankees. I have no doubt that they would want Cano but why give up both players and dollars for him when they can just give up dollars for him as a Free Agent.

    Same thing applies to the Nationals.

    The only reason you deal for Cano now is if you think you’re a player away.

  87. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    I would not go 6/150 for Cano. I think a $ 25 M a year player has to be more than just a baseball talent. Cano will never be a leaer. He’ll never set an example for how to play the game.

    If there is a Cano to the Dodgers deal for Ethier and Ryu I’d do it. And they might too.

  88. mick June 20th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Operating without a budget in Hal’s mind is ludicrous and prolly the reason he stayed away when George wanted him in.
    Having one in place is not as stupid as some think.

  89. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    86

    Look at Ethiers contract. No way we are taking that on.

  90. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    blake June 20th, 2013 at 9:54 am

    6/150 is a lot if money and is very fair at Cano’s age… If somebody wants to give him 200 then let them
    —————–

    It’s fair in a vacuum but not in a league where players who play less valuable positions (Pujols, Prince) get longer term contracts than that and more money.

    You can argue that Prince is younger and so that’s why he gets the longer term deal, but not Albert.

    Cano’s going on the market looking for his last contract. 8 years 25-27/year and a team with stupid money like the Dodgers is going to give it to him.

  91. blake June 20th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    “You would get something for him certainly, but not anywhere near equal value.”

    Again though Chip if you have traded Kuroda then you’ve punted the season …..so what’s equal value for a 1/2 a season of Cano when you’re not going to win? They could get at least 1 premium type prospect for him…..

  92. jacksquat June 20th, 2013 at 10:01 am

    austinmac June 20th, 2013 at 8:32 am

    I like Ramirez, but he is on no one’s top prospect list but our own.

    Baseball Prospectus had him ranked as our 3rd best prospect as of March 2013.

  93. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:02 am

    86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    I would not go 6/150 for Cano. I think a $ 25 M a year player has to be more than just a baseball talent. Cano will never be a leaer. He’ll never set an example for how to play the game.

    If there is a Cano to the Dodgers deal for Ethier and Ryu I’d do it. And they might too.
    ——————–

    That deal doesn’t really make sense for the Dodgers. Yes they would love to deal Ethier once Kemp comes back; but they’re not giving up one of their better pitchers as part of the deal.

    A deal of Ethier for Hughes actually makes more sense for both teams.

  94. blake June 20th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Chip,
    There are 10+ teams in contention that woukd have interest in Cano even as just a rental…..he’s a potential game changer and flags fly forever…..I could see Washington….Detroit…..SF….Atlanta…..bunches of teams involved

  95. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Mick-

    I agree that Phelps is a fierce competitor but his assortment of stuff is waht helps make that possible.

    Hughes cannot rely on his 2ndary stuff to help him get by. If his FB deserts him. He tends to be in deep sh*t.

  96. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    blake June 20th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    “You would get something for him certainly, but not anywhere near equal value.”

    Again though Chip if you have traded Kuroda then you’ve punted the season …..so what’s equal value for a 1/2 a season of Cano when you’re not going to win? They could get at least 1 premium type prospect for him…..
    —————————-

    You’re talking about baseball without factoring in PR. Unless the Yankees tie a bad contract to Cano like Boston did with Adrian Gonzalez getting the Dodgers to take back Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett then getting 1 premium prospect for Cano’s not enough to make it worth the PR hit that the Yankees take for dealing him.

    Not unless that “premium prospect” is someone like Profar or Oscar Tavares – neither of which is going to happen.

  97. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    Has anyone noticed that Cano has gotten into the Jeterian habit of tapping the catcher and umps shin guards?
    Is that supposed to indicate he is a team leader?
    Why is being the HR Derby capt again so important to him?
    He is still under the radar IMO and is prolly sulking that he hasn’t gotten an extension.
    He is getting surly and might have lost some of the joy of playing.
    It happened to Griffey Jr…

  98. NYYROC June 20th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    IIRC Cliff Lee was about the age PH is now when he hit rock bottom in his ML careeer. I believe he was so bad he was sent to AAA. He knew it was “do or die” for his career and somehow figured something out (I think he had command issues.). PH can’t go to AAA without his consent, just offering this to any PH fans. It is possible he could turn his career around. I don’t think it’s happening in NY.

  99. filthy slider June 20th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Hughes is a best a number 3 starter at Scranton. The only reason he’s still on the Yankees is because he is the only Cashman pick on the Yanks. 12 #1 picks & this is all you have to show for it. Cashman has to go.

  100. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    blake June 20th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Chip,
    There are 10+ teams in contention that woukd have interest in Cano even as just a rental…..he’s a potential game changer and flags fly forever…..I could see Washington….Detroit…..SF….Atlanta…..bunches of teams involved
    ———–

    Why would Detroit – who have plenty of offense and are getting a solid season out of Omar Infante want Cano?

    Nationals maybe – but they’re a sub. 500 team right now.

    Atlanta – only if they can find a team willing to take Dan Uggla

    San Francisco – another team with plenty of offense and they just gave Marco Scutaro a 2 year deal – they’re not adding a 2b.

  101. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:06 am

    Has anyone noticed that Cano has gotten into the Jeterian habit of tapping the catcher and umps shin guards?
    ————————-

    He’s been doing that for years.

  102. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:08 am

    Hughes cannot rely on his 2ndary stuff to help him get by. If his FB deserts him. He tends to be in deep sh*t.
    =================
    MTU
    Hughes just doesn’t have the stuff.
    His FB is not overpowering.
    If anything he is sneaky fast.
    Hughes is a Pitcher, capital P, like as in Pettitte…

  103. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Wanted Hughes to learn the split or sinker.

    Believe it really would have helped him.

    He didn’t learn them here.

  104. blake June 20th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    “It’s fair in a vacuum but not in a league where players who play less valuable positions (Pujols, Prince) get longer term contracts than that and more money.”

    You’re assuming that market is still relivent….it may have burst for these players over 30 and if it hasn’t then the Yankees should still learn from it.

    Cano might can get 8/200 from somebody…..I actually think he can if be bad a good 2nd half…..but the yanks shouldn’t do it

  105. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    He didn’t learn them here.
    =================
    Who’s fault is that?

  106. NYYROC June 20th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    I don’t think there are many Dave Eiland fans here, but he presides over a pretty good staff in KC. Even Santana, who LAA couldn’t get rid of fast enough, a guy who gave up more HRs than PH, is having an AllStar year. PH and Joba had their best years under Eiland. Coincidence or something more?
    Eiland coached PH all the way through mL. I bet even with the staff he has he’d love to have PH back. I remember in 2010 playoff win vs Twins, in lockwer room, how happy he was and how proud he was of Phil. KC has some struggling hitters, maybe they can make a deal.

  107. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:11 am

    blake June 20th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    “You would get something for him certainly, but not anywhere near equal value.”

    Again though Chip if you have traded Kuroda then you’ve punted the season …..so what’s equal value for a 1/2 a season of Cano when you’re not going to win? They could get at least 1 premium type prospect for him…..
    ————-

    I’m also not convinced that dealing Kuroda is a punt on the season. If Pineda comes back and Nova get straightened out – then even with Hughes as garbage and without Kuroda the Yankees could have enough pitching to make it interesting down the stretch.

    That’s especially true if they were able to deal Kuroda to a team in need of pitching – like the Rangers – for a guy like Mitch Moreland and maybe a prospect like Mike Olt.

  108. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Hughes thinks his natural ability will get him by.
    Why learn more about pitching.
    Phelps makeup is such that there were prolly better throwers around him coming up so he took his brain and decided to be the better pitcher.
    Not saying Hughes is lazy but it is a possibility.

  109. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    blake June 20th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    “It’s fair in a vacuum but not in a league where players who play less valuable positions (Pujols, Prince) get longer term contracts than that and more money.”

    You’re assuming that market is still relivent….it may have burst for these players over 30 and if it hasn’t then the Yankees should still learn from it.

    Cano might can get 8/200 from somebody…..I actually think he can if be bad a good 2nd half…..but the yanks shouldn’t do it
    —————–

    I wouldn’t offer him more than what the Angels gave Hamilton, but that’s just me.

    I’ve been very vocal about the fact that, given the sheer number of needs that the Yankees have, I would rather spread his money to a couple of other players than give it to him.

    It’s possible that the fact that Cano isn’t doing anything for the Yankees at the ticket booth will lead Hal and Randy to that conclusion as well. When you’re talking about a contract like this, the business side of it is whether or not the player will generate enough interest in the team to have fans come see him…ie an Albert Pujols or Alex Rodriguez…Cano doesn’t drive the needle up.

  110. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    “I think phelps just has a better feel for controlling bat speed and manipulating the ball…..Hughes has almost no pitchability…..it’s just all hard stuff and challenge pitching .

    Hughes actually has better control than phelps probably if we’re just talking about throwing strikes ….but part of that is because phelps often errs outside the zone whereas when Hughes misses it’s right down the middle. Phelps may throw less overall strikes but he throws more quality strikes”

    Good summation.

  111. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    mick-

    Not sure but probably his.

    He had many examples to follow. People to mentor him.

    Garcia and Kuroda both have ex splitters.

    And plenty of guys throw sinkers as well.

    Not sure of the involvement of the PC ? He preaches K’s.

  112. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    for a guy like Mitch Moreland and maybe a prospect like Mike Olt.
    ==================
    Why would we want another teams failed prospect?
    Don’t we have enough of our own?

  113. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    If you guys and gals can think of potential trade partners for Hughes don’t you think Cashman can come up with even more of them ?

    ;)

  114. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    for a guy like Mitch Moreland and maybe a prospect like Mike Olt.
    ==================
    Why would we want another teams failed prospect?
    Don’t we have enough of our own?
    ————–

    Fine, Moreland and another prospect…the point is still the same.

  115. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    It’s possible that the fact that Cano isn’t doing anything for the Yankees at the ticket booth will lead Hal and Randy to that conclusion as well.
    =============================
    In fact, they would prolly celebrate it.
    Throw an office party or something …

  116. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:17 am

    If you guys and gals can think of potential trade partners for Hughes don’t you think Cashman can come up with even more of them ?
    ————–

    No, because we all assume that other teams are in the business of helping the Yankees (or have dumb GMs)

  117. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Chip

    I am wary of taking on others “prospects.”
    So much of that is hype.

  118. Bronx Jeers June 20th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Phil Hughes reminds me of the movie “Jaws”. Just when you thought it was safe to get him back on the mound.

    Im sure the Yanks feel they’ll be able to replace his production from within the org.

  119. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Ethier’s contract wouldn’t be onerous in context of not having Granderson or Cano.

    Yes, Ethier + Ryu for Cano might leave the Dodgers an arm short and Hughes or Nova could be that arm. Keep in mind their offense is hurting and Cano is an elite hitter. Capuano was more effective than Ryu yesterday.

    Just thinking out loud.

    Of course dealing Kuroda is punting on the season unless you get immediate offensive help in the deal.

    If Hughes can get you Moustakas I’d take on that reclamation project.

  120. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:20 am

    If you want to get something for Hughes I think there would be a couple of teams interested but only if the Yankees were:

    1) willing to take back a marginal prospect
    or
    2) willing to take back a bad contract
    or
    3) willing to take back an equally confounding player

  121. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Ethier’s contract wouldn’t be onerous in context of not having Granderson or Cano.

    Yes, Ethier + Ryu for Cano might leave the Dodgers an arm short and Hughes or Nova could be that arm. Keep in mind their offense is hurting and Cano is an elite hitter. Capuano was more effective than Ryu yesterday.
    ———————

    I think you have a better chance of just doing Ethier for Hughes.

  122. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    Chip-

    No offense but I think you under rate Hughes potential value.

    Especially to the right Team.

    Agree to disagree w you on that one.

    We might get a chance to find out.

    ;)

  123. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    ” …the fact that Cano isn’t doing anything for the Yankees at the ticket booth will lead Hal and Randy to that conclusion as well.”

    How do we know he isn’t? Maybe no one would show up at all if Cano were gone.

  124. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    Chip-

    No offense but I think you under rate Hughes potential value.
    ——————–

    I hear where you’re coming from with it, but my point is that while a team might think they can turn Phil Hughes into an ACE, they’re not going to offer the Yankees compensation based on that projection. They’re going to offer the Yankees compensation based on what he is now…which is a young pitcher with an expiring contract who has, at best, been inconsistent but has a live arm.

  125. blake June 20th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Chip,

    Detroit would want Cano because their owner is a million years old and wants a title bad…..That rotation + a lineup with Cano, Miggy, prince would be about as good as it gets

  126. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    If the Yankees are still competitive by the TD they are not going to do a major makeover.

    I think they will still be within striking distance so they are likely to be buyers rather than sellers.

  127. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    If we are to believe that this is the best attendance we will see for a couple of years due to the fact that STH bought in thinking this was the same Yankee team they have gotten used to, then next year will be the test when this years results have been tallied.

    How they market that will be interesting without Cano.

    I believe Jeter, Arod and Tex will still be around. Maybe Grandy.

    Will they and the pitching staff be enough?

    The key is Jeter.

  128. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    Chip-

    That’s true but the return on that still might be fairly good.

    And likely way better than just a draft pick.

  129. DONNYBROOK June 20th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Once upon a time, Cano Was an elite hitter. Now, he can Not hit lefties, which DQ’s him from that moniker. We shoulda dealt the guy in the offseason as many of us around here wantd. Oh yea, and he dogged it yesterday getting thrown out at 2B. The guy is good, but worth no where near the coin or length of contract he is gonna demand.

  130. jacksquat June 20th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    Cano and Ichiro for Puig (maybe 2 or 3 other lesser players trading places). :)

  131. bruceb June 20th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    If the Yanks don’t improve their offense – and soon – then (as one poster dared to say here a few weeks ago) they will be 10 games out at the ASB and anyone/everyone will be up for grabs.

    276 runs scored. 276 runs conceded. That equates to a .500 record yet we’re still seven games over and only 3.5 back right now. However, a bad series against the Rays (and the best I think we’ll do is split) and we could be looking over our shoulders at the Jays and last place.

  132. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Cano and Ichiro for Puig (maybe 2 or 3 other lesser players trading places).
    =============================
    If you throw in Mattingly ;)

  133. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Yankeesource@YankeeSource 14m
    I could see the Yankees interested in Manny Ramirez. They have a need for a RH DH bat to offset Hafner.
    ___
    I don’t see this happening, but I’d love us to risk it. Bet he’d drive some fans to NYS. Including those from Washington Heights.

  134. NYYROC June 20th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    It’s been debated here, just what role does a PC have in how well a pitcher does. Afterall the ultimate responsibilty is with the guy throwing the ball. But they must have some role or why would they have that coaching position?
    Not an indictment pf LR but when the NYY were interviewing for a PC, Cashman had candidates look at video of Joba, PH and AJ and suggest how to fix/ improve them. LR has done such a good job with those guys that:1) AJ is pitching in Pitt. and pitching really well ever since he left. 2) PH is pitching himself out of a job and 3) Joba is inconsistent (there’s that word again.) 7th inning guy.

  135. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    bruce-

    The teams in the AL East are all still tightly bunched and there is a long way to go.

    No one is really pulling away yet.

    What does being in 3rd or 4th place mean in that context ?

    Sounds worse than it actually might be.

  136. Mike in Harrisburg June 20th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    @NYYROC Agree, especially with AJ. Apparently out there he’s be able to go to mechanics he’s comfortable with (as opposed to presumably the way LR wanted him to throw) and look at the results. Of course now he’s torn his calf, but still.

  137. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:34 am

    What does being in 3rd or 4th place mean in that context ?
    ===============
    Exactly.
    5 games could separate 1st from last.

  138. JobaTipsHisCap June 20th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    at best, Highes might be an OK no.5 starter in NL west.
    nothing more.

  139. mick June 20th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Maybe Pitts would be interested in Hughes. How many of our pitchers do they have now?
    They might even have some decent prospects.

  140. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    Roc-

    LR’s pitching philosophy is to increase the K rates.

    I believe he’s done that.

    Our pitching staff is one of the best in the AL.

    How much credit he gets for that is up to you ?

    FWIS he gets at least some.

    Dave Duncan was one of my favorites. He could take birds w broken wings and heal them.

    Not sure that is LR’s forte.

    LR is definitely getting results and he’s a pro. That much we can say.

  141. DONNYBROOK June 20th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    If your looking for consistency, look to Robertson. He is pitching his way outta The Bridge role. Currently, at best, he’s a crap shoot everytime he goes out there.

  142. NYYROC June 20th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    I think Pitts has had a bunch of injuries to its SP too.

  143. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 10:38 am

    yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Yankeesource@YankeeSource 14m
    I could see the Yankees interested in Manny Ramirez. They have a need for a RH DH bat to offset Hafner.
    ___
    I don’t see this happening, but I’d love us to risk it. Bet he’d drive some fans to NYS. Including those from Washington Heights.
    ///

    I think this died with “Get greedy…get Manny” from another Yankee site from another time, but sure, they have nothing to lose and right now they have nothing…take a flyer

    Won’t happen, though… could you see the Yanks with Manny in the order and then Alex comes back… Hal has his principles ;)

  144. DONNYBROOK June 20th, 2013 at 10:39 am

    Hughes would fit SF. Big yard for all those fly balls.

  145. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Hughes would also thrive at a place like Safeco.

  146. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 10:42 am

    Yankeefem – Did you see where Feliz went 3 for 3 with a homer and playing 3B again?

    Hopefully, the start of something good. I think I’d rather have Feliz stick at second, but maybe the thought is, with Gumbs and Refsnyder also 2B, they are looking for a way to potentially involve 2 of 3 or even all, at some point, given the tools of those kids.

    Don’t have a feel for Refsnyder, but if Gumbs and Feliz could live up to what they show in raw ability, that would be some kind of infield down the line.

  147. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    The bottom line is that the Yankees are going to have find more O from somewhere.

    W/o it they won’t make it.

    Perhaps they think the 2nd half reinforcements will be enough ?

    That’s a very risky bet IMO.

  148. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    It would have been nice to have had Hughes throwing a change like 5-6 years ago. At least someone finally had him get rid of that silly cutter. Hoping the slider improves. When he throws it well, he is a much tougher pitcher. Wonder if feel for those pitches, changeup too (threw 11 in last start), improves.

    Looks like Colome will pitch Saturday for Rays vs. CC.

  149. NYYROC June 20th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    MTU, I really don’t know how much credit goes to LR. Not complaing about him or making excuses for the guys who have pitched poorly. Just looking at what has happened with him vs a guy like Eiland. Agree with you about Duncan. LR preaches Ks. Duncan didn’t care about Ks. He wanted quick outs.
    The NYY staff is good because of vets like CC, Kuroda, AP and Mo. Not sure LR gets much credit for them. They are so experienced they are their own coaches.

  150. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Hughes would also thrive at a place like Safeco.
    ///

    Jesus thrives at the Stadium. Hughes for Montero? :)

  151. austinmac June 20th, 2013 at 10:44 am

    I have watched teams come and go for over 50 years. This Yankee team does not appear to be a contender to my eyes. I hope they do not trade youth for one year rentals. I would much prefer going the other direction.

    They have plenty of time to assess whether Cano will sign for what you will pay. Either sign him or trade him. I will be livid if they do neither and let him walk for a draft pick. I would be about as unhappy if they pay him $200M. Either way,I don’t see this ending well.

  152. CCBiggs June 20th, 2013 at 10:44 am

    The key question is: Why should Hughes stay in the rotation with a 5.09 ERA when the Yanks have other options (like Nova)? Answer: He shouldn’t!

  153. MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    ROC-

    You make some good points.

  154. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    MTU —

    Good point, Hughes for Montero !

  155. blake June 20th, 2013 at 10:46 am

    CCBiggs says:
    June 20, 2013 at 10:44 am
    The key question is: Why should Hughes stay in the rotation with a 5.09 ERA when the Yanks have other options (like Nova)? Answer: He shouldn’t!

    Nova has been worse

  156. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    Pruf, good to see that Feliz is getting some reps. He has played two days in a row after not playing since May 18th. Maybe tyanks can get some vid. Hoping she is going to see Pineda tonight in Tampa. Too bad no video coverage, maybe on purpose. Hoping he gets at start in Trenton next week (I will attend); if he doesn’t get an AA or AAA start soon, you have to think they are perhaps hiding something.

  157. bruceb June 20th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    The teams in the AL East are all still tightly bunched and there is a long way to go.

    True, MTU, but the more I see of the Orioles, the more I like them. Their lineup is scary good…Davis and Jones have turned into big hairy monsters and the supporting cast isn’t half bad either.

    Sox are exceeding expectations too and although the Rays’ starters don’t look quite so invincible right now, I’m sure it’s only a temporary blip. Will be interesting to see what the Yanks do against Matt Moore tonight. He’s really struggled in his last three starts, but if you can only muster three hits off Capuano (coming off the DL too)…

    The Yanks’ lineup is far and away the worst in the division. Hopefully, Grandy, Jeter and – dare I say – ARod will do something to redress the balance in the second half of the season, but that maybe over-optimistic.

  158. jacksquat June 20th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    I don’t think pitchers should be asked to adapt to a pitching coach’s philosophy, the pitching coach should work with a pitcher’s abilities.

  159. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 10:43 am
    MTU June 20th, 2013 at 10:40 am

    Hughes would also thrive at a place like Safeco.
    ///

    Jesus thrives at the Stadium. Hughes for Montero?
    __
    If we are going to let him walk anyway, why not!? :)

  160. NYYROC June 20th, 2013 at 10:49 am

    LR hasn’t been able to help Nova either. What happens when vets like AP(possibly), Kuroda(possibly) and Mo are gone next year. He’ll have one vet CC. Wonder if he can guide the young guys?

  161. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 10:49 am

    austinmac —–

    The Yanks would not trade Cano in-season unless they got back players that could make them better right away. Prepare to be livid because I think the odds are he leaves as a F.A. and the Yanks get a draft pick.

    I don’t think they’ll trade youth for rentals and i KNOW they’re not trading veterans for prospects unless they are 10+ out at the deadline.

  162. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    This Yankee team does not appear to be a contender to my eyes. I hope they do not trade youth for one year rentals.
    ///

    This is my fear, also.

  163. austinmac June 20th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    The Dodgers wouldn’t trade Puig for our whole team. Neither would I.

    Can you imagine how excited we would be to have a player like that? I can’t say with certainty how he will turn out, but I have not seen a player with those tools on the Yankees since . . . Mantle.

    Tom Greenwade, where are you when we need you to see talent and get the Yankees to sign it?

  164. jacksquat June 20th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Yes, the Yankees are not sellers when they are only 3.5 games back.

  165. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    If they trade youth for one year rentals, they are lost. But don’t think they will. Fingers crossed.

  166. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    @craigcalcaterra

    Give me a baseball reason — not a PR reason, but a baseball reason — why the Yankees shouldn’t sign Manny to a minor league deal today.

    ?@craigcalcaterra

    Note that my response will likely be “… but Vernon Wells”

    LOL

  167. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 9:59 am
    I would not go 6/150 for Cano. I think a $ 25 M a year player has to be more than just a baseball talent. Cano will never be a leaer. He’ll never set an example for how to play the game.

    —————-

    You don’t know that for a fact. I don’t think he will be a rah rah type but you don’t know if he’ll never lead by example. Before CC came to the Yankees did anyone ever think of him as a leader.

  168. austinmac June 20th, 2013 at 10:57 am

    86w183,

    I don’t think the team will trade vets for youth either. I simply believe they should. If they can’t sign them, trade them as the Rays do for youth.

    I look at the 40 man roster and look at the minors and it looks very bleak unless something is done to re-stock the system. The old ways are done. They need to embrace new methods under the new budgetary rules.

  169. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 10:58 am

    Manny > Wells

    Is this fact?

  170. NYYROC June 20th, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Well CC did set quite an example when, with the Brewers in a pennant race, he asked for the ball about every 3rd day. Even though he was an impending FA. He put the team, a team he probably wasn’t going to sign with, ahead of himself and a huge paycheck. He risked injury to help his team.

  171. sunny615 June 20th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    hard to believe we have another year of Wells too. Barf…

  172. mick June 20th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    Before CC came to the Yankees did anyone ever think of him as a leader.
    ===================
    Did you see what he did for the Brewers?

  173. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 11:02 am

    sunny615 June 20th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    hard to believe we have another year of Wells too. Barf…

    ——————–

    They’ll either release him next year or keep him as a 5th OF/warm body.

    I honestly wouldn’t want them to, because he’s not exactly DH material if this is how he’ll hit. I dunno if he’d perform any better with more limited duties.

  174. austinmac June 20th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Manny would be our clean up hitter without any doubt. If we can have Arod, we can have Manny. But, I can’t imagine it would ever happen.

    With Moore going tonight, we can count on another days of Wells. But, in all honesty, who the heck else does Girardi have? Adams isn’t hitting, Neal isn’t hitting yet, Romine can’t hit at all, Almonte is best from the left side and on and on.

    All the newspaper articles are about Hughes. He did stink it up. But, unless we score it doesn’t matter. That’s the real issue. Once in a while a team needs to win 7-6.

  175. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    @craigcalcaterra

    Give me a baseball reason — not a PR reason, but a baseball reason — why the Yankees shouldn’t sign Manny to a minor league deal today.
    ——————-

    Doesn’t he still owe 100 games on a PED violation?

  176. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    blake June 20th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Chip,

    Detroit would want Cano because their owner is a million years old and wants a title bad…..That rotation + a lineup with Cano, Miggy, prince would be about as good as it gets
    ————–

    Yeah but is their need great enough to get them to offer the Yankees Nick Castellanos? Nope. And if the Yankees are going to trade Cano, that’s the type of “right now” guy that they need to be able to sell the deal to the majority of the fan base.

  177. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    Doesn’t he still owe 100 games on a PED violation?

    ———————

    Maybe if he wears a tape mustache no one in Selig’s office will recognize him…

  178. austinmac June 20th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    Shame, I would rather see you hit than Wells. Much rather in fact.

  179. comnsnse June 20th, 2013 at 11:13 am

    Nicky boy, time to get out of the crib and into the lists.

    Your last wisea**s remark on the previous thread was with respect to “when Cashman assumed his duties full time”, with the blindingly sophomoric comment, I don’t know but I sure as hell am not going to Google it”.

    But you see bright boy you need not have Googled anything if you read other posters comments, in this case mine! And while far from me to interrupt your restaurant and food reviews.

    I’ve commented on Cashman’s tenure more times than you have functional brain cells, and twice on recent threads.

    Maybe you might not have to rely on Google after all if you actually pay attention and ask nicely!

    Then again Tar thinks you’re a nice fellow and have blog time in grade, so I guess you can fool some of the people all the time,yes? ;)

  180. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 11:13 am

    86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 9:59 am
    I would not go 6/150 for Cano. I think a $ 25 M a year player has to be more than just a baseball talent. Cano will never be a leaer. He’ll never set an example for how to play the game.

    —————-

    You don’t know that for a fact. I don’t think he will be a rah rah type but you don’t know if he’ll never lead by example. Before CC came to the Yankees did anyone ever think of him as a leader.

    ***********************************************************************

    Hell Yes,

    People saw CC as a leader. The way he demanded the ball on short rest over and over again for Milwaukee is one of the most impressive displays of leadership I or anyone else has ever seen.

    You’re right I don’t KNOW Cano will never be a leader, but I think it’s more likely that Nancy Pelosi joins the Tea Party than Cano ever becomes the leader on a contender. He simply doesn’t give max effort often enough.

    You want a baseball reason not to sign Manny ???

    Okay — he’s 41, and he has 6 hits in 42 AB dating back to September of 2010.

  181. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Chip June 20th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    @craigcalcaterra

    Give me a baseball reason — not a PR reason, but a baseball reason — why the Yankees shouldn’t sign Manny to a minor league deal today.
    ——————-

    Doesn’t he still owe 100 games on a PED violation?
    ///

    But ask yourself this. What’s better – Vernon Wells in the lineup or Manny while he’s serving a suspension?

  182. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    mick June 20th, 2013 at 11:01 am
    Before CC came to the Yankees did anyone ever think of him as a leader.
    ===================
    Did you see what he did for the Brewers?

    ———————————-

    All ppl saw was a guy looking to cash in on free agency. No one really knew how great a person CC was until he became a Yankee.

  183. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Chip June 20th, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    @craigcalcaterra

    Give me a baseball reason — not a PR reason, but a baseball reason — why the Yankees shouldn’t sign Manny to a minor league deal today.
    ——————-

    Doesn’t he still owe 100 games on a PED violation?
    ///

    But ask yourself this. What’s better – Vernon Wells in the lineup or Manny while he’s serving a suspension?
    ——————-

    Fair enough.

  184. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Wells cannot be a full-time player. If he was a platoon DH/4th or 5th OF I bleieve he would be an effective player. If he plays every day he’ll continue to be awful.

    But austinmac is right, Girardi does not have any options.

  185. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    mac – I would love that as well… I already have my at-bat music ready.

  186. Hassey June 20th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Hughes is far past the point of disappointment – we’re now at the steps labelled “lowered expectations” and “resignation”

  187. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Against All odds —-

    Just because you didn’t know CC Sabathia was viewed throughout baseball as a great teammate, bona fide ace and clubhouse leader doesn’t mean the rest of the world was equally clueless.

  188. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    ankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    Pruf, good to see that Feliz is getting some reps. He has played two days in a row after not playing since May 18th. Maybe tyanks can get some vid.
    ///

    Beg her! He does seem to get injured a fair amount. He’s skinny with those long, gawky limbs, maybe his bones need to “settle” some. He and Sanchez are the ones that I want to see here most ATM. And DePaula, now that we’ve lost Jo-Ram. Maybe Mitchell moves up soon? Him, I’ve never seen. Gallegos in SI I’ll make a point to see. Hearing great things about his first outing.

  189. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    But ask yourself this. What’s better – Vernon Wells in the lineup or Manny while he’s serving a suspension?
    ——————-

    Fair enough.
    ///

    :D

  190. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    He simply doesn’t give max effort often enough.

    ——————–

    You need max effort to be a leader?? Take Lebron for example. He didn’t show max effort until he practiced with the 08 USA Team and noticed how hard Kobe worked. Cano may never be a leader but we never know when one event or meeting can change everything.

  191. pat June 20th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    I believe Manny served his 100 games before he could play in the DR and Taiwan so he’s good to go if a team signs him.

    George would vote YES to signing Manny. He may not be good but he won’t be boring. As Mattingly said this week, “I think George (Steinbrenner) liked controversy. His thing was, good publicity or bad publicity, its still publicity.” :wink:

    Manny might not be good but he isn’t boring.

  192. austinmac June 20th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Shame,

    I know I will regret it, but what is your at bat music? You wold go to the plate in a Jennifer Lopez uniform I assume.

  193. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 11:18 am
    Against All odds —-

    Just because you didn’t know CC Sabathia was viewed throughout baseball as a great teammate, bona fide ace and clubhouse leader doesn’t mean the rest of the world was equally clueless.

    ——————–

    I’m talking about Yankee fans in general calm down.

  194. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    If you want the name of a right handed hitter who is available right now, I’ll give you two:

    Alfonso Soriano & Dan Uggla

    Two who might be available a month from now: Alex Rios and Carlos Quentin.

  195. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    Ppl always get personal during a discussion relax. It’s not life or death.

  196. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    In the spring of 2011, Ramirez was informed by MLB of another violation to its drug policy. He chose to retire on April 8 rather than face a 100-game suspension.[4][5] Later that year he requested reinstatement, which was granted on December 10 with the stipulation that he serve a 50-game suspension if signed. Ramirez subsequently accepted a minor league contract with the Oakland Athletics.

  197. G. Love June 20th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    yanksfem,

    I think it’s admirable you’re still defending Hughes. I just think the he’s “pitching with no margin of error” isn’t exactly spot on in his case. He gives up runs after the national anthem and by the 3rd or 4th you realize he’s giving up a run an inning or more and isn’t providing length.

    Yes, the offense isn’t bailing him out. I can’t argue that. But with a lineup this thin, 2-3 runs in the first feels like 10 and the game takes on a different tone.

    I actually would put Nova back in there or even let Warren take the slot (until Nuno or Pineda are healthy) because they’re going to be here next season. If every 2 starts we’re going watch Hughes implode in the early innings, I’d rather try something else.

  198. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    Or we can continue to make Cano out to be a lost cause because he’s not diving into the ground on every play.

  199. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Cano has been in the majors a long time. He is who and what he is. You can hold out hope all you want, but I would not invest in him long term expecting him to be the dear and face of a franchise. And that’s what a $ 25 Million a year player should be.

    And yes, effort goes a long, long way with me.

  200. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 11:30 am

    Manny might not be good but he isn’t boring.
    ///

    I bet Manny’s still good. He’s got such great coverage and such a great swing, even if his bat is slower and he doesn’t have the same thump, he can probably still foul off pitches all day with two strikes.

    They will never do this, of course.

  201. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 11:30 am

    leader and face that is

  202. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 11:30 am

    mac – Elton John, The B*tch is Back.

    *bows*

  203. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Cano is who he is.

    And I’ll take nine of him :)

    Two?

    Cano to protect himself in the lineup. That means one of them would actually get something decent to hit :)

  204. G. Love June 20th, 2013 at 11:31 am

    I don’t mean to be a wet blanket but all the hue and cry for Wells’s DFA is wasted keystrokes.

    Cashman got him for free next season. You don’t think Hal is giddy that they’ll have a rostered player playing for free next season that Anaheim is paying the full freight for and doesn’t count against our cap?

    His results are almost meaningless at this point. He has more of a sure spot on the team next year than Cano & Jeter right now.

    I feel for the guy. He helped win a lot of games in April and looked to be a revitalized player with a sound approach – that player seems lost to us now and he’s a void in the lineup.

  205. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    Assuming I wore one, J.Lo couldn’t hold my jock strap.

  206. Hassey June 20th, 2013 at 11:33 am

    she can hold mine, while it’s full of my tackle

  207. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    Or we can continue to make Cano out to be a lost cause because he’s not diving into the ground on every play.
    ///

    He’s a guy who if he’s not absolutely raking, the vultures come out. He’s not well liked by most Yankee fans, he’s tolerated because by now, people get how good he is. But if he falters at all, he gets the swift kick. It’s so old. The team stinks. Let’s pile on Cano. Maybe he’s bored. I know I am.

  208. Hassey June 20th, 2013 at 11:34 am

    I a, so sick of talking about this frustrating season already…regardless of whether the Yanks win or lose, of whether Jeter’s return is enough to push us back up the standings, can’t we just fast forward to 2016 like Rip Van Winkle ?

  209. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 11:29 am
    Cano has been in the majors a long time. He is who and what he is. You can hold out hope all you want, but I would not invest in him long term expecting him to be the dear and face of a franchise. And that’s what a $ 25 Million a year player should be.

    And yes, effort goes a long, long way with me.

    —————————————-

    He should try more in terms of running hard to first and things of that nature but ppl want to make him something he isn’t. He’s never going to be a rah rah Pete Rose player but that doesn’t mean he still can’t develop leadership qualities. Some leaders are vocal and some aren’t. I’m not holding out hope I’m just not burying the guy because anything can happen. Things occur in someone’s life and it can change.

  210. bruceb June 20th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Chip:

    You’ve just named the four right-handed bats the Yanks should avoid at all costs (and, particularly in Soriano’s case, it would be costly). Four players on a downward spiral who might, just might, have a hot month but will prove a noose around your neck over a period of time. They are slightly different versions of Vernon Wells. Might pop the odd home run here and there but can no longer hit for average.

  211. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 11:36 am

    cue the “he can’t afford to be bored if he wants to be the highest paid player….”

    :)

  212. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 11:39 am

    There have been plenty of moments in Yankees history where Jeter’s leadership has been brought into question. I’m sort of ‘meh’ on leadership. You need it, but you don’t necessarily need it from your best player. Watching Robbie play this year.. I have kind of wondered if he isn’t missing a little of that fire that people like Jeter and Arod probably keep on him. It does kind of feel like the guys in that locker room are largely apathetic… that’s based on absolutely nothing factual, just my observation.

  213. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 11:34 am
    Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    Or we can continue to make Cano out to be a lost cause because he’s not diving into the ground on every play.
    ///

    He’s a guy who if he’s not absolutely raking, the vultures come out. He’s not well liked by most Yankee fans, he’s tolerated because by now, people get how good he is. But if he falters at all, he gets the swift kick. It’s so old. The team stinks. Let’s pile on Cano. Maybe he’s bored. I know I am.

    —————

    I think a lot of the Cano talk is due to his free agency. You didn’t hear this in 10 or 11. Fans tend to turn on a player when their contract is coming up. It happened with Jeter. Should Cano run hard to first? Yes he should. Was it wrong for him to half a it last night going to second? Yes it was but every time things go wrong it’s he’s lazy(which has a certain undertone to it, he’s not really that good, etc. There are warts with him no doubt and he shouldn’t receive a blank check but boy the wolves definitely come out don’t they.

  214. champ809 June 20th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 9:59 am
    I would not go 6/150 for Cano. I think a $ 25 M a year player has to be more than just a baseball talent. Cano will never be a leaer. He’ll never set an example for how to play the game.

    —————-

    You don’t know that for a fact. I don’t think he will be a rah rah type but you don’t know if he’ll never lead by example. Before CC came to the Yankees did anyone ever think of him as a leader.

    ***********************************************************************

    Hell Yes,

    People saw CC as a leader. The way he demanded the ball on short rest over and over again for Milwaukee is one of the most impressive displays of leadership I or anyone else has ever seen.

    You’re right I don’t KNOW Cano will never be a leader, but I think it’s more likely that Nancy Pelosi joins the Tea Party than Cano ever becomes the leader on a contender. He simply doesn’t give max effort often enough.

    You want a baseball reason not to sign Manny ???

    Okay — he’s 41, and he has 6 hits in 42 AB dating back to September of 2010.
    ————————————————————————————————————-

    86 you’re perception of Cano is so off based in the subject of leadership. He is in fact a great leader of this team in the sense that he is the recognized HARDEST WORKING PLAYER on the team. He takes extra BP and does extra work ALL THE TIME.

    He has also become a hitting instructor for many of the teams players showing them some of the drills he does.

    He has embraced the role of mentor to the teams younger latin players showing them how to be professional both on and off the field.

    He hosts a baseball hitting camp in the D.R. during the offseason that many of the team’s ( as well as other teams young latin players ) young latin players rave about that also teaches them proper fitness along with his dad.

    The fact that you and some other’s may question is lack of hustle down the first base line on routine grounders is giving you a myopic view of what his true value as a team leader is.

    Did i neglect to mention that he’s been damn near Gehrig like during his career in terms of showing up everyday ready to play and missing virtually no games in his last 6 years ( 12 days off in 6years to be exact ).

  215. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 11:39 am
    There have been plenty of moments in Yankees history where Jeter’s leadership has been brought into question. I’m sort of ‘meh’ on leadership

    ———————

    “Jeter should talk more. How come he didn’t defend A-rod when the fans booed him in 08. Jeter is not the leader on the team Jorge is. The team isn’t playing with urgency and that’s because their captain isn’t vocal enough. This team needs a leader that gets in someone’s face because Jeter doesn’t do that”

    Those are some of the things ppl have said about Jeter over the yrs.

  216. yankeefeminista June 20th, 2013 at 11:44 am

    GLove, heading out to an appt. but will get back to you later on Hughes. Have a good one, all.

  217. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 11:45 am

    The question about Cano isn’t whether he’s a great player – he clearly is. The question about Cano is whether he is a franchise cornerstone, the guy you build around. I don’t know that he is.

    Is he a Miguel Cabrera/Albert Pujols/Alex Rodriguez/Junior Griffey type of dominant player who can carry a team? I don’t think so.

    Is he a Cal Ripken/Derek Jeter type, with great ability and over the top leadership attributes? No.

    To me, Cano falls in the category with Josh Hamilton or Justin Upton…amazing talent but not someone to build a team around. Which means you can’t give him the kind of contract that Pujols or Alex get.

  218. Chip June 20th, 2013 at 11:46 am

    bruceb June 20th, 2013 at 11:35 am

    Chip:

    You’ve just named the four right-handed bats the Yanks should avoid at all costs (and, particularly in Soriano’s case, it would be costly). Four players on a downward spiral who might, just might, have a hot month but will prove a noose around your neck over a period of time. They are slightly different versions of Vernon Wells. Might pop the odd home run here and there but can no longer hit for average.
    ——————–

    I don’t disagree – but I wasn’t commenting on their desirability, just their availability.

  219. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:47 am

    champ809 June 20th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    —————-

    Champ none of that matters…leaders don’t do those kind of things. Cano will never be a leader and I’m clueless.

  220. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 11:50 am

    I think you can build a team around him based on his position. Not saying give him A-rod money but going forward this team has issues offensively now if you remove him where do you go? Ppl say reinvest it in 2 guys. Does anyone think if this team doesn’t re-sign Cano they will turn around and make the right decision on who to invest money in.

  221. pkyankfan69 June 20th, 2013 at 11:53 am

    8 years – $200 M is too much for any player who will be 31 when he signs the contract.

    Nothing against Cano but I don’t want to have 4 years – $100M left on the books for a player from the age of 35 – 38 in the post steroid era.

  222. bruceb June 20th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    The adjective “great” is used way too frequently in sports these days. Robinson Cano is a good player but by no means great.

  223. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 11:58 am

    The Yankees have never really been built around one player…. They’ve never spent like they were anyway. In the Yankee Universe, dollars spent does not a corner stone player make. If that were the case, Arod is really the guy they were ‘building around’ and we all know that’s a bunch of bunk.

  224. Against All Odds June 20th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    bruceb June 20th, 2013 at 11:57 am
    The adjective “great” is used way too frequently in sports these days. Robinson Cano is a good player but by no means great.

    ——————–

    At his position he is probably the best or second best. How is that not a great player. How many second basemen give you 30 and 100?

    Shame what was that between you and mick yesterday?

  225. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    If they have a plan for what to do with Cano’s money that would make this team better while letting him walk.. I can get behind it. I’ll have no choice, I love the team and I love baseball. But I’m weary of their ability to plan at this juncture.

    If this was the Devils we were talking about, I’d be fine letting a franchise guy walk. Seriously.

  226. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    champ809 —-

    You are really overreacting to what I’ve written.

    Cano IS a great player and your point about him coming to play every day is perfectly valid.

    For purposes of this discussion I am looking at him from the context of the greatest players in the game because that’s what I believe you have to be in order to get the kind of mega deal he is almost certainly seeking.

    Am I glad he’s a Yankee? Absolutely. Is he deserving of his $ 15 M salary? Absolutely. Would I sign him for 6+ years @ $ 25 M per year? Absolutely not.

    My position is based on watching him for the better part ofa decade, not one example of half hearted effort.

    I’ve been around high level college sports for thirty years. I have never seen a “leader” who doesn’t play hard all the time. We can agree to disagree on that point.

  227. G. Love June 20th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Cano’s a great player. He’ll hit for average, get 30 HR’s (or close to it) drive in runs and play above average D.

    I think the disconnect a lot fans feel with him is he hasn’t had his “I’m the Yankees” moment in a huge spot yet.

    Like Jeter diving into the stands or hitting game winning hits, etc.

    Comparing Cano to Jeter in terms of that isn’t fair.

    That being said, his trend against lefties is scary. I really think the Yankees should go 6 years only on an extension.

    Still, if they have to go 7, at least Tex/Arod will be long gone and off the books by then if Cano declines.

    But a power hitting 2b, who fields well and hits for average is a huge asset.

    I just think emotionally, Cano hasn’t had his “moment” yet. He’s had moments, but not that almost scripted Yankeeography moment that fans will be talking about for decades to come.

  228. austinmac June 20th, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    Shame,

    It is good when the walk up song is fitting. :)

  229. bruceb June 20th, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    At his position he is probably the best or second best. How is that not a great player.

    I agree…of his generation. He has the potential to be a Hall of Famer, but he’s not there yet. He averages just over .300 in the regular season but his post-season stats are disappointing. Way too early to be anointing him “great”.

  230. 86w183 June 20th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    Three top ten MVP finishes, Three Silver Sluggers and Two Gold Gloves.

    That’s enough for me to consider him a great player.

  231. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    AAO – I have no idea lol, mick being mick I assumed.

    mac – Oh you have no idea!!

  232. Shame Spencer June 20th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Drat.

    :arrow:

  233. J. Alfred Prufrock June 20th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Odds. Agree looming FA is a bIf factor. The team beIng awful also just makes him an easy target. There’s a similar thing going on with my Penguins on the boards in that they have a great young defenseman who is getting blamed for

    Their conference ouster. Well the kid plays 30 minutes a game nearly and the rest
    Of
    The defense cannot make a decent outlet play. Guess what – after next season he’s a FA so with hard cAp restraints and his Norris Trophy cAndidacy he’s suddenly the devil incArnate, selfish etc. In Cano’s case there’s no lineup support and he’s not responding ideally. ( My iPhone wrote ” no lineup supper” ha ! That’s a good one. You’re
    Spot on though.

  234. West Coast Yankee June 20th, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Going back to Hughes, I’m pretty convinced he can’t pitch every 5-6 days effectively. He was incredibly good as a reliever. I know he doesn’t want to be one, but you can’t argue with the results!


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