The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Sabathia: “I just need to put a game together”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jun 29, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

CC SabathiaI expected CC Sabathia to be frustrated last night. I expected it because of the home run, and because of the way he came off the field, and because he let a lead slip away. But I’m not sure I expected him to be so angry in his frustration. He’s not the kind of guy to punch walls and throw chairs, but last night he seemed close. As close as he gets anyway.

“You’ve got to finish the game, put a complete game together,” he said. “I’m not saying go out and throw nine innings, but just put a good start, a complete start together. I feel like I haven’t done that all year.”

Sabathia’s season has felt incomplete, hasn’t it. Last night he could not have been much better halfway through the game. His fastball was sitting around 93 mph and regularly reaching 94. He was working on a no-hitter. It was vintage Sabathia for five innings. Then a little flare fell for a hit. Then an infield single that should have been an out. Then a legitimate double, and another infield single, and a home run. Suddenly, there he was, with another four earned runs and another start that could have been better.

“It wasn’t really him snowballing,” Chris Stewart said. “It was just kind of bad luck, just one bad pitch that they were able to take advantage of. Other than that, he threw pretty good. It’s just unfortunate what happened. … It’s an ERA-inflator, but there’s nothing much you can do. He’s had a couple of those games this year. He’s un-CC-like maybe numbers-wise, but as far as intensity and the way he goes about it, he’s the same guy. It’s just tough that his numbers aren’t with him this year.”

Thing is, the Yankees need the numbers. This is not a year when the Yankees can fight through games like yesterday, pick up Sabathia for his two costly mistakes, and turn a disappointment into a win. Pitching is what the Yankees have. It’s the only part of the roster that’s remained relatively healthy and able to go more-or-less according to plan. And the ace is a big part of that plan.

Sabathia’s velocity is starting to climb. He’s pitched at least seven innings in six of his past seven starts. He’s had one three-walk game since April 7. Does Sabathia feel that he’s far off from where he should be?

“No, but that’s what makes it more frustrating,” he said. “I feel like the stuff is there. I just need to put a game together.”

Associated Press photo

Comments

comments

 
 

Advertisement

137 Responses to “Sabathia: “I just need to put a game together””

  1. pkyankfan69 June 29th, 2013 at 9:05 am

    What made last nights loss hard to accept was how damn good CC looked over the first 5 innings..

  2. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:07 am

    pkyankfan69 June 29th, 2013 at 9:05 am
    What made last nights loss hard to accept was how damn good CC looked over the first 5 innings..

    =========================

    With our lineup, giving up 4 runs is certain death… C is still coming back from surgery, he will be much better next season

  3. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:09 am

    MTU,

    About your last post on previous thread… Revenues will come down no matter what, IOW their bottom line will come down as well

  4. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:10 am

    Sabbathia was in complete command of that game for 5 innings.

    He made a couple of mistakes and it cost him aided by Adams being out of position.

    Still. The O’s only scored 4 and w a normal Yankee O that’s a victory.

    Trouble is this isn’t a normal Yankees O. Nowhere near it.

    The pitching can’t be expected to carry the team forever.

    There are gonna be some regressions and hiccups and that’s when the O would normally take up the slack.

    Right now they can’t. So when the regression occurs w the pitching we begin to slide.

    How far we slide depends on how much O help we get and when.

  5. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Luis-

    If revenues drop precipitously it will get their attention.

  6. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:19 am

    MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:11 am
    Luis-

    If revenues drop precipitously it will get their attention.

    ======================

    No doubt… The problem is how they react… If they choose to go on an all out spending spree, they will put the team in an even worse situation, making a recovery exponentially harder ( the economy is not as good as some people say and they might empty the farm in trades as well which will only compound the problem )… If they choose to go as Blake suggests, we will be doomed for an almost eternal mediocrity, since we won’t be bad enough to pick high on the draft and we won’t have payroll flexibility going forward.

    The best option is a full fledged rebuilding process, but I don’t see them doing that… Or I don’t trust the current management to accomplish that feat efficiently… They are track record is mediocre at best on this area

  7. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:21 am

    *Their tarck record is…*

  8. Ys Guy June 29th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    i didnt get alot of support the year before last when i was against resigning cc.
    i got even less this past offseason when i advocated trading cc while they still maybe could…

  9. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Luis-

    No one knows for sure but I tend to agree with your working hypothesis that the Yankees are unlikley to go for a voluntary rebuilding process.

    And the danger exists of a panic or ill-advised trade.

    The other possibility is that Yankees somehow hang tough until the TD. Get the regulars back.

    And make some good supplemental moves.

    Hope for that.

  10. Shame Spencer June 29th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    The bottom line is we need offense somewhere (probably multiple places). I don’t care if you need to give up defense, I don’t care if it’s an RH or LH bat, I don’t even care if the guy has legs, tbh.

  11. Niblick June 29th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    4.15 ERA for a guy making $23 million a year?

    Terrible.

  12. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Y’s,

    CC is still coming back from surgery… He will improve the farther he gets from that… And even if he has started to decline he is still a very good pitcher… Last night had more to do with our non existent O than CC’s couple of mistake pitches… We are several bats short

  13. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:31 am

    Luis-

    Just like I’m a coupla pints short of a quart.

    :)

  14. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:33 am

    Shame-

    Legs would be very helpful.

    ;)

  15. 86w183 June 29th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    I’d make a move today to drop a pitcher and call up Ruiz.

    He’s a legit RH power option and can’t be any worse than Adams at 1B. Hell, my grandmother makes one of those plays.

    Not blaming the kid. He’s doing his best, but you need someone familiar with the position out there. He made the wrong decision on both slow rollers turning two easy outs into hits.

  16. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:37 am

    So here’s the best case scenario.

    The Yankees manage to stay within striking distance of a playoff berth until some or all of the regulars return.

    They give the O a boost.

    In addition, the Yankees make some strategic trades and/or acquisitions to bolster same.

    Not giving away anyone who isn’t expendable.

    See. That was easy.

    :)

  17. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:37 am

    MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:28 am
    Luis-

    No one knows for sure but I tend to agree with your working hypothesis that the Yankees are unlikley to go for a voluntary rebuilding process.

    And the danger exists of a panic or ill-advised trade.

    The other possibility is that Yankees somehow hang tough until the TD. Get the regulars back.

    And make some good supplemental moves.

    Hope for that.

    =============================

    Sure…Your last scenario could very well play out in the end, although I think that even with the regulars coming back we are still not good enough to win it all… But more importantly, it doesn’t address the future, which is my main concern

  18. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 9:38 am

    CC looks much better lately with better velocity. These other guys are real major league hitters. A few bleeders and a blast, and we lose. I don’t blame CC. We have to help out a pitcher on occasion.

    Yes, the Post said we and the Sox are looking into Young. I recommended him this winter. They need far more. They need AROD and Jeter to be their young versions. That seems very unlikely.

  19. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    Luis-

    The future will be fully addressed after 189 is achieved.

  20. 86w183 June 29th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    I feel bad for Adam Warren. This is a wasted year for a soon to be 26-year-old pitcher with real potential.

    He has pitched once since June 13… three mop up innings in a loss.

    Carrying 12 pitchers when you need to mix and match as much as the Yankees do is ridiculous.

    Carrying 13 is incompetence worthy of termination.

  21. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:40 am

    MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:33 am
    Shame-

    Legs would be very helpful.

    =======================

    We can put them on electrical wheel chairs… i heard they are very fast these days ;)

  22. Ys Guy June 29th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    cc’s a little diminished now but the last 2 years of his contract could be brutal.

  23. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    Is there any record or any number of games behind that would cause the team to sell off? At some point, one would think they would. Call me a pessimist, but I think it very possible they will be in last place and ten games back by the TD. One look at the batting order explains my reasoning.

  24. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:40 am
    MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:33 am
    Shame-

    Legs would be very helpful.

    =======================

    We can put them on electrical wheel chairs… i heard they are very fast these days

    ======================

    And they can come very handy afterwards for the nursing home they are building ;)

  25. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    Luis-

    Or motorized skateboards w. autonomous baseball seeking radar.

    :)

  26. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:44 am

    Mac-

    I’m sure there is but I don’t see the Yankees letting themselves get there.

    ;)

  27. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 9:46 am

    MTU,

    Getting to $189M will, in my opinion, result in a last place team in 2014. They will lose about half the team to free agency, need to cut $50M from payroll and not one offensive prospect to significantly contribute.

    Attendance will drop 20%. Hal will prove himself an idiot.

    That is my crystal ball view.

  28. mick June 29th, 2013 at 9:46 am

    its the same thing every day here….

  29. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Luis-

    Your crystal ball might be a little cloudy.

    But hey, I’m an optimist.

    ;)

  30. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 9:42 am
    Is there any record or any number of games behind that would cause the team to sell off? At some point, one would think they would. Call me a pessimist, but I think it very possible they will be in last place and ten games back by the TD. One look at the batting order explains my reasoning.

    ===========================

    Mac,

    Even if they make the playoffs and they get most of their regulars back ( doubtful ), this team is not better than the 2010/11/12 versions, is a downsized version… Which means, if they couldn’t make it on those years, what makes anyone think that this team will be different?… I rather start a rebuilding than continuing with this slow slide in to oblivion and irrelevancy…

  31. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    Sorry. the post at 9:48 was for Austinmac.

  32. fantasygame101 June 29th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    still no move yet. cashman wake up. this team needs a lot of help so start early bec. you need more time than you think

  33. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 9:49 am

    MTU,

    What can they do and what difference making pieces do they have to give up for marginal improvement? Do they give up Nunez for Young? That’s the mind of deal that’s possible. Joba is getting the team nothing.

  34. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 9:50 am

    mick,

    Yes, the same thing from you every day. Have any real thoughts or just critical ones?

  35. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:48 am
    Luis-

    Your crystal ball might be a little cloudy.

    But hey, I’m an optimist.

    ============================

    That’s you best quality my friend ;) Hope is the last thing you should lose… I am hoping that they realize they need to rebuild and build another dynasty for 2016-2026… Sounds good ? ;)

  36. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    MTU, don’t give my crystal ball to Luis. He can probably get a cool one in South America.

    Luis, it is good to have you back among us.

  37. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:54 am

    Mac-

    They have pitching they can afford to trade, i.e. Hughes/Nova/Joba/Warren, etc.

    Other assets as well.

    I am not in favor of making any marginal trades for more mediocrity. I’d prefer they stand pat.

    I make a package that is attratcive enough to garner something decent.

    And by decent I mean youngish and a piece for the now as well as the future.

  38. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    I don’t mind giving up pitching or prospects, but not for Young and his one and done type. If they trade, you can bet that is just the route they will go. No one give up young, cheap hitters, and the team won’t take on contracts.

    I like Young. He would help, but not enough to take anything away from the future team.

  39. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    Mac-

    Oh yeah ! I bet Luis already owns a whole collection of those Crystal Skulls.

    Luis-

    It sounds great but it isn’t easy, or even likely.

    The Fram system that produced our core guys deat us a Royal Flush.

    I’d settle for a strong 2 pair in the future.

    :)

  40. luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 9:52 am
    MTU, don’t give my crystal ball to Luis. He can probably get a cool one in South America.

    Luis, it is good to have you back among us.

    ===================================

    It’s good to be back Mac…. Don’t worry, mine comes from the Yanomami indians…. The problem is that i don’t understand Yanomami!! ;)

  41. blake June 29th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    CC had the bad inning last night but the process is looking a lot better…..the velocity is trending up and his stuff is looking better. He’s not the problem…..re problem is that every starter has to legitamitely give up 3 runs or less every start for them to have a chance. It’s hard to win that way…..ask the mariners

  42. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    sp: Farm not Fram. We’re not talking auto parts here.

    Duh.

  43. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    MTU June 29th, 2013 at 9:58 am
    Mac-

    Oh yeah ! I bet Luis already owns a whole collection of those Crystal Skulls.

    Luis-

    It sounds great but it isn’t easy, or even likely.

    The Fram system that produced our core guys deat us a Royal Flush.

    I’d settle for a strong 2 pair in the future.

    =======================

    I agree on the Royal flush…. But I can dream too ;)

  44. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Luis-

    What’s to understand ?

    You speak shrunken head don’t you.

    ;)

  45. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:02 am

    blake June 29th, 2013 at 9:58 am
    CC had the bad inning last night but the process is looking a lot better…..the velocity is trending up and his stuff is looking better. He’s not the problem…..re problem is that every starter has to legitamitely give up 3 runs or less every start for them to have a chance. It’s hard to win that way…..ask the mariners

    ==========================

    To think that i once joked about the NY M’s with Ramiro Pena batting clean up…. Not too far off ;) :(

  46. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Yes Luis. By all means keep dreaming. And alwyas dream big.

    A Man w/o hope or dreams is dead.

    In fact I’ll join you.

    ;)

  47. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:04 am

    MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:01 am
    Luis-

    What’s to understand ?

    You speak shrunken head don’t you.

    ===========================

    Only when I sleep ;)

  48. Hankflorida June 29th, 2013 at 10:05 am

    The Yankees have 5 more games with the O’s, seven with the Twins and four with the Royals before the All Star break. Do they go ten wins and tread water till the reinforcements come back or ten losses that puts them out of the picture and it does not matter what they do?

  49. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    Luis-

    The Yanomami were one of the last “undiscovered” tribes of the Amazon.

    They were blowgun and poison dart types. Very fierce.

    I’d stay on their good side if I were you.

    ;)

  50. Ys Guy June 29th, 2013 at 10:09 am

    the $189 plan is dead. they will officially blow it up at the trade deadline.
    just watch.

  51. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:10 am

    MTU,

    I just want to say what an incredible fellow you are…. You must be a positive influence every where you go… It is a priviledge to have gotten to know you… :D

  52. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:12 am

    Y’s-

    Possible.

    Many here would hope so.

    I’m not convinced. I’m leaning the other way actually.

    We’re gonna find out. I hope you are correct.

  53. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:12 am

    MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:07 am
    Luis-

    The Yanomami were one of the last “undiscovered” tribes of the Amazon.

    They were blowgun and poison dart types. Very fierce.

    I’d stay on their good side if I were you.

    ====================================

    Actually I have met a few of them… They are very nice and kind people… Very shy at first and of very few words in general…

  54. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 10:13 am

    Another lefty today. With twelve position players on the roster, there aren’t many options for Girardi.

    I normally have watched 150 games or more and have since they became technologically available. This year the team is just not a must watch event. I still watch almost all but find myself wandering away in the middle of the games if we are behind. It is simply not as much fun to watch these guys hit. In fact, it is painful.

    If a fan as avid as me is losing some focus on the team I suspect the average fan is losing interest faster.

    We all saw the team refuse to try to improve in recent times if it impacted 2014. The fans saw it. If management of the team have awareness of the pulse of the fan base, they had to know the doubts heading into this season were greater than any in 20 years.

    I still don’t think the money to be saved will match the money lost.

  55. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:13 am

    Luis-

    Since we are doing the mutual admiration society thing today.

    Likewise.

    ;)

  56. Rich in NJ June 29th, 2013 at 10:14 am

    I like Young. He would help, but not enough to take anything away from the future team.
    -

    I agree. At some point, they need to stop digging and start building.

  57. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 10:15 am

    Ys,

    I hope you are right on the 189. I do think that is the financially smart thing to do. The Yankees must not mess with their huge income stream.

  58. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    Luis,

    That would be interesting meeting the tribe. At the end of the day, we are all people with the joy, pain, hopes and fears. For better or for worse, we are all simply people.

  59. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:18 am

    I still don’t think the money to be saved will match the money lost.

    ==========================

    Mac,

    At this juncture, I don’t think it is adviseable to open the coffer for FA’s or empty the farm for quick fixes ( ala Granderson for example )…. They just need to start a rebuilding process… Trade some pitching prospects for position prospects, trade current roster players for more prospects… When you have a good and solid farm, then start to sign new FA’s to compliment the homegrown core…Not before

  60. Hankflorida June 29th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    Austinmac:

    As you and Captain Clutch have said the season in falling away even before the TD. The next sixteen games before the All Star break will tell the tale. The Twins and the Royals should be easy, and if not, wait till next year!

  61. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    Luis-

    “Actually I have met a few of them… They are very nice and kind people… Very shy at first and of very few words in general…”

    Those must be the “reservation” ones. The “domesticated” ones.

    Kind of like Native Americans after being sent to reservations. All the fight taken out.

    They had their “Geronimos” and their old ways. That’s changed in Modern Brazil as civilation has encroached.

    The thirst for Timber and Farmland has really changed the Amazon as I’m sure you know.

    Close encounters of the bad kind were very common early on until the Gov’t stepped in to try to stop some of it.

  62. Ys Guy June 29th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    i see them busting up the 189 not just for this year but especially for next.

    and one guy i’d be looking to bring in is hanley ramirez. the dodgers might well like to save the $23M or so they owe him if they are out of it and id be willing to take a chance on his walk year at $16M

    hafta put him at third though b/c you cant push jeter out with hanram.

  63. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Well. That’s enough Anthropology for today.

    Time for the most important meal of the day.

    :)

  64. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:24 am

    Y’s-

    I hope Hal and Co. don’t disappoint your faith.

  65. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:25 am

    austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 10:18 am
    Luis,

    That would be interesting meeting the tribe. At the end of the day, we are all people with the joy, pain, hopes and fears. For better or for worse, we are all simply people.

    =========================

    I met them in my younger years while exploring the southern part of the country… You are right , we are all the same in the end… I would only add that it struck me then how foolishly complicated we “civilized people” have become, while in the end, life is very simple… We have created our own hells on earth for nothing

  66. blake June 29th, 2013 at 10:26 am

    The Yankees will say they think this still a championship caliber team when they have their A lineup…..they will blame it on the injuries

  67. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:28 am

    MTU,

    Yes I am aware… But on our side of the Amazon that was not the case… We have had peaceful connections with them for decades… Not lately though

  68. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    I think Hanley is a great target. Talented and young and the Dodgers need pitching. If they were to do something like that, that would tell us the 189 idea is dead. Of they add a one year guy, then no.

  69. fantasygame101 June 29th, 2013 at 10:30 am

    trade to get better now or trade to get better in the future. No in between with this team right now. In between will do you nothing but fail now and fail next yr. There is no way you can trade to get better now and in the future bec. there is nobody to trade except cano. Hughes and chamberlain is only a small part to get better in the future bec. they may not get you an average mlb ready prospect.

  70. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    No Hanley please…. Health and aptitude concerns

  71. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Blake, the missing core will be about 40 next year, but I have no doubt bad luck and injuries will be the sole explanation for a down season.

  72. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Luis,

    I do remember him jogging after the ball in the outfield.

  73. Ys Guy June 29th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    hanram is a one year guy his contract runs through next year. but id be willing to see what he will do in that walk year. i would not do a deal for him that includes buying crawford or ethier’s contracts though unless the dodgers eat most of either contract.

  74. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    They should have started to build a new core by 2008-09 when the old core still could hold the brunt of the responsability… They chose the quick fixes instead or the 28 year old FA’s…That’s why we are in this predicament

  75. mick June 29th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    all of you in faraway places keep the rebuilding talk alive.
    NY fans will not accept the failures of youth.
    they have won because of free agency, if Hal doesn’t open up the pocketbook young fans will be old by the next time we win a title.
    jeters don’t come along that often and posada and bernie and jeter don’t win a thing without the free agents and trades that cost money.
    right now we appear to be following the TB model but it took them many years of losing to get there.
    even if it worked and took 10-20 years , NY fans would not stand for it, like they didn’t when they were losing over the 30 years from ’65 to ’95, with a few exceptions.

  76. Hans Davenport June 29th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Another lefty today. With twelve position players on the roster, there aren’t many options for Girardi.

    Carrying 13 pitchers is a problem. Then again making it a must to maximize the number of RH hitters weakens the lineup, especially when any number of players are out of position. The manager needs to realize there is no need to treat McFarland or Britton like they are Cliff Lee. Against a couple of inexperienced lefties, best hitters need to be in the lineup and at their best positions. Overbay and Hafner should be able to hit an average lefty. That way Adams can play 3B and Nix SS and Gonzo and Wells can sit. Too early for me to give up on Adams.

  77. 86w183 June 29th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    There’s the rub — virtually any more to help this year’s team will come at some future cost. Michael Young won’t cost much, maybe a David Adams. But Adams is the best option @ 2B if Cano leaves as a FA.

    Right now I’d settle for some intelligent roster management. Carrying 13 pitchers in insane and indefensible. In the last six days (five games) Phelps and Warren haven’t pitched and Mariano and Robertson have each pitched once.

    They need to try and get by with 11 pitchers for a week or so and see if having more position players to mix and match with helps the offense. Arguably the absence of a true RH hitting 1B cost them last night’s game.

  78. Hankflorida June 29th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Blake:
    You are right! The Yankee lament because of all the injuries will be the line from the movie, “On The Waterfront,” which is, “I could have been a contender.”

  79. mick June 29th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    The Yankees will say they think this still a championship caliber team when they have their A lineup…..they will blame it on the injuries
    ======================
    If it’s true why not?

  80. RhapsodyInBlue June 29th, 2013 at 10:39 am

    You would have to suspect they will move some pitching for offense before the trade deadline.

    And why they trotted Joba back out there last night in a close one to try to get his value up.

  81. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:41 am

    Mick-

    So it sounds like you are of the same opinion as Y’s ?

    That Hal will see that the Team is not competitive as it sits and will open up the wallet effectively scrapping 189.

  82. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:41 am

    Mick,

    Not one single Yankee Dynasty has depended on FA’s except the teams from 77-78 and they had Munson and Guidry and it was at the dawn of Free Agency… FA have complimented the homegrown cores, not the other way around… Paul O’neal as endearing as he was for me, never was the heart and soul of this dynasty… It was Jeter, Mo, Po, Andy and Bernie

  83. Ys Guy June 29th, 2013 at 10:45 am

    “NY fans will not accept the failures of youth.”
    ===============================
    ppl were comparing this team to the ‘horace clark era’ the other day, ‘is it that bad’, ‘could it get that bad’ kinda stuff.

    during that time, roughly 69-74 the yankees were developing murcer, munson, bloomberg and then trading youth for nettles, pinella and chamblis.

    nobody remembers that as rebuilding, they just always refer to it as a disaster to be avoided at all costs.

    contrary to popular belief, reggie jackson and catfish hunter did not with the WS by themselves.

  84. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    Mick-

    Is my 10:41 post to you a fair reading of your position ?

  85. mick June 29th, 2013 at 10:52 am

    luis
    Oneill was acquired in a trade like so many others.
    Are you saying without a core, a core which must be home-grown, we cannot win?
    It is a balance of trades, youth and FA’s. Without one of those 3 entities it will be difficult to win.
    Rebuilding comes in many forms and spending money tips the balance.
    Perhaps other teams have won but not as much as us which is why we have been accused of buying championships.
    Hal holds the keys to rebuilding but he and his FO don’t seem to have the wherewithal to accomplish that task as they have never had to.
    Tightening the pocketbook is not the Yankee way, how you expect to rebuild this without money is beyond me.

  86. luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Another thing… In the 80′s they relied mostly on FA’s and we won squat… When George was banned in 1990 I believe, it took them just 5 years to develop the dynasty… When George came back we went back to the FA model while preserving the core and again we won squat… Then Cashman took control and to his credit he tried to replicate the model up until 2008, then he stopped, he talked the talk but never really committed to it… We need to rebuild the core first if we want sustainable and consistent success

  87. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    What Hal decides to do should be very interesting as well as determinative for the season IMO.

  88. mick June 29th, 2013 at 10:57 am

    MTU

    I have no handle on Hal as of yet.
    He has spoken on things in the future, meaning next year, and has not proven anything to me as of yet.
    For all we know he is using this 189 stance as a bargaining ploy against Cano, which I think he will lose.
    I think he might go slightly above it yet this might be his idea of rebuilding esp if he can get rid of Arod and his contract and any future money to Cano. If he can do that he can look to spend money elsewhere like the redsox did. He prolly envies them.

  89. luis June 29th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Mick,

    I agree is a combination of the three ( Homegrown, trades and FA’s )… But you need the homegrown talent first… Unfortunately, we haven’t been bad enough to have access to the elite talent in over 20 years… We have now an opportunity to maybe be in the mix for that talent… They need to use their financial might to strengthen the farm both in talent, scouting and coaching… Then you wait for all those really bad contracts to be off the books or when you get the reset on the luxury tax and then start complimenting the team with FA’s with reasonable contracts

  90. mick June 29th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    luis
    I said we need a balance, not just to rely on FA’s.
    where is this core coming from. do they have to be young?
    they need to revamp.
    trades and key farm members are prolly the key.
    a few key FA’s would also help.
    they need to get to work. you might be right about cashman .
    it might be time for him to go, but who decides who his replacement is?

  91. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Thanks for response Mick.

    So basically you are unsure of where Hal will come down.

    My position is that he will tweak things but hold the line on 189.

    Anything beyond that will surprise me.

    But I’d love to be pleasantly surprised.

    ;)

  92. luis June 29th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    And use the excess of talent in the farm to get quality pieces as well

  93. G. Love June 29th, 2013 at 11:01 am

    austinmac,

    If you think they’ll only see a 20% drop in attendance going under 189 next year and being a last place club, you’re being optimistic.

    I think it will be bigger off the heels of this season and what’s happening.

    Last night was the worst loss of the season in my eyes. The fact that the manager put a kid at 1b who doesn’t play 1b in a major league game where your horse had no-hit stuff is borderline fireable. Forget the “Girardi should be manager of the year” nonsense people have been spinning in here.

    It’s really come to this; The Yankees either make some moves to improve the roster or they punt and put this team into the dark ages where the only thing keeping fans interested in when will Jeter retire.

    That’s where we are now.

    I forget which poster kept saying we’d be 10gb by the break, but he’s starting to look pretty prescient.

  94. luis June 29th, 2013 at 11:04 am

    Mick,

    They need to be homegrown, that’s the key IMO… If they are young even better

  95. luis June 29th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    G Love,

    I think that would be Randy ;) and Comet

  96. luis June 29th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    BRB

  97. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    I’d like to believe that young Stein is a Man of his word but I’m skeptical.

    Prove me wrong Hal and I’ll be glad to apologize.

    You said if the Team was not competitive you’d fix it.

    So if it isn’t by the time the TD approaches forget the goal of 189 and open the money spigot.

  98. mick June 29th, 2013 at 11:08 am

    It is a fact that Hal should realize if he looked at Yankee history that fans will not show for a losing product.
    Forget walkups, as they appear to be a thing of the past anyway, but season ticket holders will also drop precipitously.
    I remember “crowds” of 10,000 being commonplace and will relish the thought of it, if Hal follows through on his “plan.”
    He cannot win unless they win. The sooner he realizes this the better..

  99. mick June 29th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    If the master plan is to take the next few years off to reset the luxury tax and they are prepared to punt those 2 years away then it is a major gamble. One that will be tried to be covered up, altho most of this years moves were due to injuries, by cosmetic attempts to field a decent team. It has worked but it is falling apart so at least he can see a precedent. It will be interesting to see what happens on and off the field, win or lose..

  100. MTU June 29th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    Mick-

    That is true but Hal has built in reasons not to do so if he chooses to use them, i.e. all the injuries.

    I think they’ll add some meat but not necessarily any real beef.

    Guess we’ll find out soon enough.

    This is another one I wouldn’t mind being wrong on.

    I have a good track record of being a reverse barometer.

    :)

  101. Hans Davenport June 29th, 2013 at 11:14 am

    luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:53 am
    When George was banned in 1990 I believe, it took them just 5 years to develop the dynasty… When George came back we went back to the FA model while preserving the core and again we won squat…

    Precisely so. IIRC one of GS initial moves was to fire the GM Bob Watson who had worked with Stick Michael to help build that dynasty model. He replaced him with a former intern, Cashman. George never good stand anyone being credited outside of himself. He did the same thing when Gabe Paul was credited for he trades he made to build the ’78 team.
    I don’t think the Steinburner clan and their acolytes know anything but the FA model. I truly fear this group is incapable of working together to achieve anything but stop gap fixes.

  102. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Mick,

    I am agreeing with you today. Confusion. :)

  103. Hans Davenport June 29th, 2013 at 11:23 am

    luis June 29th, 2013 at 11:00 am

    I agree is a combination of the three ( Homegrown, trades and FA’s )… But you need the homegrown talent first… Unfortunately, we haven’t been bad enough to have access to the elite talent in over 20 years

    I don’t buy this. How bad have the Cardinals been in the last 20 years? Right now I can count 3 rotation pitchers and three starting lineup position players that are alumni of their Single A club at Quad cities. I’ll agree they have went the free agent route too. Then there is the question of patience in player development. How long did they wait for Molina to finally hit?

  104. mick June 29th, 2013 at 11:24 am

    mac-
    it’s not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.
    nobody here can fix this thing but many think they can.
    its mostly frustration that rules here.
    hearing the same things every day compounds the frustration.
    i remember during the newspaper strike years ago when all the zoo stuff died down and they began to win.
    that will never happen here so we might as well have some fun…

  105. mick June 29th, 2013 at 11:28 am

    The dilemma seems to be that if you fire Cashman, in the name of rebuilding, the owner has to be on board.
    To be on board would be admitting to failure.
    He has a plan he wants to try out.
    Ideally, it could work, and I don’t think he will abandon it until he tries it out.
    Some of his ideas might even actually be sound.
    It might take some pain but if it works, wouldn’t it be worth it?

  106. 86w183 June 29th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    Once Hal declared the goal of getting the payroll down to $ 189 M by 2014 I thought the smartest course of action was to immediately begin the re-tooling this year. Instead they chose to spend about $ 100 M on one-year contracts in an effort to remain competitive for post-season play while making few if any new commitments beyond this season.

    Now they’re sorta stuck. the payroll is the highest in the history of the game. They cannot contend without offensive reinforcements and are already paying for those reinforcements who aren’t ready yet — Nunez, A-rod, Jeter, Granderson and Cervelli — thus any meaningful addition has to be made in the context of previous commitments.

    It’s a mess.

    Truth is, the best thing for the franchise long term would be a 10-game losing streak and an aggressive selling campaign before the trading deadline to maximize the value of players with expiring contracts.

    OR a 10-game winning streak that inspires Hal to okay the acquisition of a major RH bat

  107. luis June 29th, 2013 at 11:39 am

    Mac and Mick,

    Mick is a very good poster that has a lot to add to the conversation, regardless if we are in agreement or not… I have to congratulate you with some very good stuff today.

    I hope that you are right on his sound strategy. And I am more dissapointed than frustrated. I just want the team to do well, that’s all.

    Hans,

    Patience is key… 200 at bats or even a season are not a good way to measure talent… Not everyone is Trout or Strasbourg or Jeter. Got to go, but I will post a more comprehensive answer later on.

    Later all

  108. mick June 29th, 2013 at 11:39 am

    86

    whats the difference what they spend this year?
    next year it all comes off, or most of it.
    i think hal has no intention of paying cano.
    this would begin the rebuilding, which could be an ugly one, if it ever comes to fruition.

  109. mick June 29th, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Thanks Luis.

  110. mick June 29th, 2013 at 11:45 am

    Mick is a very good poster that has a lot to add to the conversation, regardless if we are in agreement or not…
    ===============
    I don’t think agreement is the issue and hope that you are not congratlating me on what you see is agreement with you for a change.
    We all want them to win but have no input and that is where we are frustrated or as you sau disappointed.
    This is the 1st foray into new ownership and it is virgin territory after years of success.
    Old timers dont want to see a return to the CBS years. Newbies have know nothing but success.

  111. luis June 29th, 2013 at 11:49 am

    No Mick… I just think that you made very good and reasonable arguments… I have never asked for agreement to recognize a sound position… that’s all… Just recognizing a good and sound line of thought…. I wish you would share more of this kind of analisis

    Later

  112. mick June 29th, 2013 at 11:52 am

    . I wish you would share more of this kind of analisis
    ==================================
    Luis-
    It’s just too tedious.
    I’d rather keep it light and leave all the analyzing to those who seem to enjoy it.

  113. tbone1570 June 29th, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Hans Davenport says:
    June 29, 2013 at 11:14 am
    luis June 29th, 2013 at 10:53 am
    When George was banned in 1990 I believe, it took them just 5 years to develop the dynasty… When George came back we went back to the FA model while preserving the core and again we won squat…

    Precisely so. IIRC one of GS initial moves was to fire the GM Bob Watson who had worked with Stick Michael to help build that dynasty model.

    ——————-
    Hans,
    GMS was reinstated in 1993 and Watson lasted until after the 1997 season, so I wouldn’t call getting rid of Watson one of his initial moves.

  114. mick June 29th, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Unfortunately, I get the feeling Hal could see more failure than success and finally get the message that fans aren’t buying into it, and will then react by kicking Cash upstairs and finding a new GM.

    He will have to think more like his Dad at that point which could prove impossible.

    Worst case scenario: eventually he will have to sell.
    Losing is painful but having been through it can say , life goes on.
    Today’s young fans who have known nothing but success should adjust well with all of todays distractions at their fingertips, literally.

  115. ron June 29th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    The worst thing this team can do is too sign another big contract,or take on a hanley who is owed a lot of money.
    A few smaller,lesser moves can work.
    What has happened is,yankees,and their fans were just so used to the Yankees just spending a lot of money when the team struggled,or make a big trade,take on a salary dump,and because of the financial restraint,we are in a holding pattern that is new,and confusing to all.
    They have to figure out a plan,and execute it,instead of just waiting.You can tolerate a young 3b like adams ops’ing at .700,or .750,but you can’t start an under .700 ops player with no power.
    This yankee team just can’t forfit that production.
    Get anybody else to play 3b,and 1b.
    Another thing is,long has too go,imo.

  116. Mike in Harrisburg June 29th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    ESPN’s Buster Olney reports that “there is a perception among other teams” that the Diamondbacks are willing to trade Tyler Skaggs.

    Cano and Joba for Skaggs, Archie Bradley and Adam Eaton. The future is..a few years away!

  117. pkyankfan69 June 29th, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    It would be sweet to get Skaggs and Bradley for Cano… A top 10 and top 30 prospect in baseball… Eaton is no slouch either although I think he has been hurt this year.

    Although I’m sure the preference is position players, that would be a nice haul for a 1/2 year of Robbie.

  118. Mike in Harrisburg June 29th, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    Yeah he’s slowly coming back from a sprained elbow ligament. Still he projects as a Brett Gardner “plus” I would say, and presumably more willing to steal.

  119. I Am Winning June 29th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    “PERCEPTION among OTHER teams.” NOT the Diamondbacks.

    And what makes you think they are going to trade a top 10 prospect and 2 others for a half a year of production. He is having his worst season yet too. The Diamondbacks aren’t going to sign him since he’ll cost them 1/3 of their total salary as it is.

    If Cano had a few more years to go under cost control, that would definitely be something they would look at, but would the Yankees be interested at that point? Probably not. The same reason the Yankees would trade Cano is the same reason other teams might not want him.

  120. austinmac June 29th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Mick

    We all want them to win. I have no inside information or insight. I have wanted them to proactively look to the future. How that would look, I’m not sure I know. I think a balanced approach works best.

  121. yanks61 June 29th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    ppl were comparing this team to the ‘horace clark era’ the other day, ‘is it that bad’, ‘could it get that bad’ kinda stuff.
    during that time, roughly 69-74 the yankees were developing murcer, munson, bloomberg and then trading youth for nettles, pinella and chamblis.
    nobody remembers that as rebuilding, they just always refer to it as a disaster to be avoided at all costs.
    contrary to popular belief, reggie jackson and catfish hunter did not with the WS by themselves.

    ————————————————————-

    Y’s Guy, the interesting thing, as I recall, is that there were VERY few home grown Yankees on those 77/78 teams.

    Munson – home grown
    Chambliss – trade from Cleveland
    Randolph – trade from Pitt.
    Dent – trade from W.S.
    Nettles – trade from Cle.

    OF
    White – home grown
    Pinella – trade from KC
    Rivers – trade from California
    Jackson – Free Agent

    Pitchers

    Figueroa ,Catfish – Free agent
    Ellis, Gullet, Lyle, Tidrow, Torrez
    Davis, Holtman, Gossage – all acquired in trade or free agents

    Home grown were Guidry, Clay and Beatty

    So, I while guess it’s not impossible to build a championship team without relying on a home grown “core,” it will not be easy. It will require some very good trades and will certainly take a few years. Having said that, it’s still to be determined if the next generation of home growns will approach what the Yankees had to work with in the early 70′s rebuilding process (mainly Munson, White and Guidry – and of course Murcer who was traded for Bonds, who was traded for Rivers.)

  122. bruceb June 29th, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    It gets harder every year to build a championship-caliber team without homegrown talent because the quality of players reaching free agency seems to go down. Who’s the best available this year? Cruz? Ellsbury?

    Even if Hal does a U-turn on the $189 million ceiling, the Yanks may not be able to find the pieces they need for next year. That’s why I believe they will re-sign their best player, whatever it costs.

    But who and where is the next “core four”? I can’t see them right now.

  123. charlestonchew June 29th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    I think Sabathia is gonna go on a roll after the All Star Break and put this team in to first place.

    The offense will be rejuvenated, too, specifically Vernon Wells and Robbie Cano. We have to remember that Robbie is a great player in the summer. Year after year, he tears it up in July. If we can get just a little more from Overbay & Adams and the scrubs, we can keep making a run at this. We’re not far off now and we’ve played terrible baseball. So let’s see what the break can do for the team.

  124. bruceb June 29th, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    There are still 16 games to go before the ASB. We need to start playing BEFORE then.

  125. Nick in SF June 29th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    “Which means, if they couldn’t make it on those years, what makes anyone think that this team will be different?”

    Well, the team that swept us out of the ALCS then got swept themselves in the WS by the Giants, and not just any Giants, but the same Giants that refused to activate Melky Cabrera.

    So whether we like it or not, I don’t think they’re giving up on anything if there’s any shot to make the playoffs. Once you’re it, there’s always a chance to advance.

  126. UpState June 29th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    2014: NYY trying to get to the magic $189.

    2015: Is the year I’d want to be a free agent if I’m a upper-echelon player.

    I just may not sign a ‘sweetheart’ deal with my current team, if I think the NYY will be serious in 2015.

    Who’s ‘on-target’ to be a FA for the 2015 season ?

  127. Hans Davenport June 29th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    Hans,
    GMS was reinstated in 1993 and Watson lasted until after the 1997 season, so I wouldn’t call getting rid of Watson one of his initial moves.

    I’ll agree with that, but he knew to really get involved with the team fully again he’d need to get rid of Watson and get his own GM in there. Plus I believe he kicked Michael upstairs to get him away from everyday operation.

    My point was he made moves to satisfy his own ego at the expense of the team’s success. “Initial move” should have been eventual. Sometimes my English isn’t exact. Sorry.

  128. mick June 29th, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Hal agreed to a self-imposed salary cap and I think he would love to meet it next year.
    Is the beginning of the end?
    It dosn’t have to be.
    I am sure he can envision a time when he will spend again and get value for his money.
    Getting rid of Arods contract and not resigning Cano are prolly 2 of his major goals.
    This would make him extremely happy immediately.
    Everything after that is a crapshoot prolly based on the Red Sock model of acquiring reasonably priced athletes and competing with a team based on pitching 1st.
    Once he decimated the salary structure , he can then go after the best FA’s, if he feels they have value.
    He might even have a forward thinking GM in place by then but who would he listen to for advice on who that may be?

  129. jacksquat June 29th, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    luis June 29th, 2013 at 9:07 am
    pkyankfan69 June 29th, 2013 at 9:05 am
    What made last nights loss hard to accept was how damn good CC looked over the first 5 innings..

    =========================

    With our lineup, giving up 4 runs is certain death… C is still coming back from surgery, he will be much better next season

    The surgery was just for a small bone spur. It was known about since he pitched for Cleveland.

  130. GregD June 29th, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    teams that are trying to make a run at the playoffs might be in position to trade us some talent to get them over the hump……we have some pitching and perhaps Granderson but not much else to offer without trading Cano or Gardner.

  131. mick June 29th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    That’s why I believe they will re-sign their best player, whatever it costs.
    =======================
    I don’t think Cano is his type of ballplayer and will have no trouble making him an offer he can refuse.
    Whatever he offers, Cano will want more and will not settle if he knows he can get more elsewhere.
    Unlike Jeter, Cano doesn’t appear to care if he makes his career as a Yankee his legacy.
    He looks to be getting hot right now in Camden, a park he loves to hit in. This will pump his #’s up for a possible last chance try at an extension but I doubt it works. In fact, it might just work against him, as Hal would never ante up the money and years he would be looking for.
    I think it has led to a depression, that and the lack of his buddies on the bench, even Nova, but esp Alex and Nunez.
    One thing I have noticed, Hal seem to take no prisoners and also might be looking to “make up” for the mistake that was the Arod contract, which he was prolly overpowered into doing. Those days appear to be over…

  132. tbone1570 June 29th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    Hans Davenport June 29th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    My point was he made moves to satisfy his own ego at the expense of the team’s success. “Initial move” should have been eventual. Sometimes my English isn’t exact. Sorry.

    ———————-

    Hans,
    No apologies are needed, my point is that there were other moves before Watson was let go
    that have GMS’s fingerprints all over them. The most prominent one of them was letting Buck go when his contract expired.

  133. ron June 29th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Problem is,teams are locking up their young prospects,and good players do not hit fa til they are older,so it’s hard to build a young core,unless they are homegrown.
    Teams realize that free agency always costs more,anf the fa are older players that you can’t build around.Alway is cheaper to extend a player,but there are risks also.
    Upton,longoria,pedroia,etc…

    Its about getting value out of a player,and cano making 23 million,plus a year,the value is gone,and as he declines,like arod,a team has to spend more on that position.
    The Yankees paying 40 million for 3b production,and more because youk,and arod are both hurt.That isinsane.

  134. ron June 29th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    I didn’t mean Upton,longoria,pedroia,etc… are risks,but that they are examples of extending a player being cheaper,and that they have a ton of value.
    Things are tightening up,so the Yankees can’t afford to spend 40 plus million on 3b production,when the rays spend 1/4 of that.
    I know this is an unusual year,and we had to sign youk,but the Yankees have to get better at extending players.

  135. Hans Davenport June 29th, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    Hans,
    No apologies are needed, my point is that there were other moves before Watson was let go
    that have GMS’s fingerprints all over them. The most prominent one of them was letting Buck go when his contract expired.

    Now that I thought was a GS move, when Buck refused to fire the hitting coach after the 1995 playoffs.

  136. Ys Guy June 29th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    as noted above, hanram has one year left on his contract after this one. it is for $16M. i wouldn’t exactly call that a long term commitment or alot of money for what you’d be getting.
    this team does need to develop young talent but young talent isnt going to help very much next year.
    and you cant seriously be expecting arod or jeter to revive this team. they may or may not be able to help but neither will ever carrry the load for this team again.
    this team seriously needs help for this year and next.
    i am convinced that they will abandon the $189 plan by the trade deadline.
    they need to use thier financial resources to find immediate help for this team.

  137. I Am Winning June 29th, 2013 at 11:14 pm

    Ys Guy,

    I agree in regards to abandoning the $189 plan by trade deadline; but I’m going to take it one step forward. When they signed Wells, they threw that out the window. I haven’t looked at the numbers, but is it even possible for the Yankees to be under that number? Even if the Yankees let go of ARod, Tex, and Wells, they will still get paid and cost them a luxury tax. On top of that, they can’t sign Cano, can’t resign Jeter, Granderson will be let go. And we would be at the $189 threshold, meaning minor league players would fill those spots. So basically we will have a top 2 payroll, and a bottom 2 team? It doesn’t mean sense financially, or logistically. No way the Yankees will keep revenue high and fans in the seats with the payroll being under $189.

    I agreed with Hal at first, $189 was possible, but with our current circumstances, it just isn’t possible anymore. Maybe in 5 years the Yankees can get it under whatever the cap is at that time, but for now, it is not possible to be competitive with that payroll.

Leave a comment below


Sponsored by:
 

Search

    Advertisement

    Follow

    Mobile

    Read The LoHud Yankees Blog on the go by navigating to the blog on your smartphone or mobile device's browser. No apps or downloads are required.

Advertisement

Place an ad

Call (914) 694-3581