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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


More home run trouble for Hughes

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 13, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Ryan Doumit, Phil Hughes

The Yankees 4-1 loss to the Twins was another of those starts that perfectly encapsulates the good and bad of Phil Hughes. Through 7.1 innings, he had a season-high 10 strikeouts, walked one and allowed just five hits. But three of those hits were home runs, with the biggest blow coming on his final pitch of the game, a two-run homer by No. 9 hitter Pedro Florimon in the eighth inning. Had Hughes limited the damage to the first two solo homers — one by Trevor Plouffe, one by Ryan Doumit — the start would have been an absolute positive, an infinitely winable game that would have rested strictly on the shoulders of the offense. With that final home run, though, Hughes snapped a string of three straight starts without allowing more than two runs. Not an awful start, but no longer an awfully good one. The Yankees out-hit the Twins, but their only run came on Robinson Cano’s RBI single in the first inning.

Associated Press photo

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281 Responses to “More home run trouble for Hughes”

  1. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    “Who cares whether it’s Montero or Joe Blow.”

    How does Joe Blow look in the field?

  2. Shame Spencer July 13th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Gotta win tomorrow. They have a little break coming up and should be going all out tomorrow.

  3. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    Someone needs to wake Cashman up and tell him that the Yanks are actually, somehow, still in the race despite having the worst offense in club history. If he would actually get off his duff and get us a couple of actual major league bats, they could win this thing.

  4. Shame Spencer July 13th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    bruceb July 13th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Fourth time in nine games during this home stand that the offense has scored only one run. After the ASB, we’re on the road to nowhere I’m afraid.

    ————

    Scary numbers.

  5. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Nick, I hear that Blow can hit breaking balls better than most of our current team.

  6. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Another crapper from Hughes. Another non-effort from the offense.

    The sun rises in the east and sets in the west, and the 2013 Yankees stink to high heaven.

  7. Captain Clutch July 13th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    @AndrewMarchand
    12 of Hughes’ 18 homers allowed have come in the Bronx.

  8. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Shame, maybe we think low score wins. :mrgreen:

  9. Captain Clutch July 13th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    Cashman should be aggressive in moving Hughes. I have a feeling that he will pitch really good for a team in a bigger ballpark. His stuff was good today but he can’t pitch in this ballpark.

  10. Shame Spencer July 13th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Captain Clutch July 13th, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    @AndrewMarchand
    12 of Hughes’ 18 homers allowed have come in the Bronx.

    ——————–

    Smh.

  11. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    I agree they gotta win tomorrow, or at least it would be highly advisable. And as disappointing as today’s game was, 2 of 3 is always an acceptable result until you need 3 of 3 to avoid elimination.

    But I don’t know what going all out would look like for this crew!

  12. luis July 13th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    How does Joe Blow look in the field?

    ================================
    Nick, I hear that Blow can hit breaking balls better than most of our current team.

    ==========================

    Hilarious on both ends

  13. ConcernedCitizen July 13th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Well, if the Twins were going to win one, it was going to be today’s game. We’ll get ‘em tomorrow.

  14. JimK July 13th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Other than the 2KC games when was the last time the Yankees actually raised a SP’s ERA?

  15. joecembrale July 13th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 3:54 pm
    Someone needs to wake Cashman up and tell him that the Yanks are actually, somehow, still in the race despite having the worst offense in club history. If he would actually get off his duff and get us a couple of actual major league bats, they could win this thing.

    Exactly, or at least be a WC

  16. implosion July 13th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Brian is and has been too busy chasing skirts, running from stalkers and being in court more then he has at his desk. You all still don’t grasp what this type of mess can do to a mans job performance. This is a GM of a business valued at over 1 billion dollars. If I owned this company, had so many empty seats, a garbage product and my GM behaved liked that he would have been fired last year, You all know baseball but seem to be missing some basic knowledge of human nature. ERA and OBP don’t mean a thing if the boss man cant keep his pen out of the co ink well

  17. Hassey July 13th, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    Hughes announced hell be donating 1000 for every homer allowed, to his new foundation high bombs for hope

  18. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 3:58 pm

    Numerous players have been given opportunities to show they belong on a major league roster this year.

    This includes both vets and minor leaguers. With the possible exception of Almonte whose performance also seem on the wane.

    The offense is brutal, and as to trades they should be sellers and not be deluded by the modest success in large measure due to the pitching, believing that one or two more vets of dubious quality will work magic.

  19. Hans Davenport July 13th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    More home run trouble for Hughes? Barely a mention of the crappy offense? Oh well. That’s reporting I guess?

  20. Hassey July 13th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    Here comes giro’s answering machine message

  21. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    All these complaints about Cashman. When are you guys going to realize that the Yankees DO NOT have anybody good enough to trade for bats??

  22. implosion July 13th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Whos fault is it they don’t have anyone good enough? The grounds keeper. Give me a break. The fish stinks from the head pal.

  23. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    “Deduno has really been tough on us….” Here we go. Even if Deduno weren’t, we just can’t hit.

    And agree with Joe about Hughes’ stuff.

  24. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    “In a lot of ballparks, that’s not a home run, but we’ve taken advantage of that, too”

    Not this version of “we” Joe.

  25. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    They traded what they had for pitching. It is what it is. Sell what you can and reload.

  26. tbone1570 July 13th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    igotid88 July 13th, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Most of Hughes homeruns are not in most AL parks as well. I didn’t see how they were hit. But from what I’ve seen from before they were probably carried by the wind

    ——————————————————–
    This is just not true. Check out the link below and look at the ballpark overlays and you’ll see that most of his HR’s are out in any park.

    http://hittrackeronline.com/de.....pe=pitcher

  27. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    MLB Newtork: “Get [Hughes] out of [Yankee Stadium]. ”

    Then rattles off PetCo, AT&T, Dodger Stadium, and Anaheim as potential destinations.

  28. bruceb July 13th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    We were supposed to have ARod, Jeter, Tex, Grandy and Cervelli back after the ASB break, but we could actually go to Fenway on Friday without all five of them. What chance will we have of winning there with this offense?

  29. Hans Davenport July 13th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Wow 2 runs or less in 5 of the last seven? That should be part of the story too.

  30. implosion July 13th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    If given a choice of .500 and missing the playoffs or just getting in and getting HUMILIATED like last year, I will gladly miss the playoffs. Don’t go, don’t watch. Hit them where it hurts.

  31. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    why is it always about defending players with you guys?
    this is about a team, not favorites of yours.
    just b/c you “knew” him as a baby doesn’t mean a thing to most fans who just want to see a good team on the field.

  32. Hankflorida July 13th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    Niblick, Hal’s mantra is, “it’s the cap, stupid! Coupled with your comment that they lack talent to trade means that even free agency for next season is off the table.

  33. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    “What chance will we have of winning there with this offense?”

    A smaller one!

  34. Hassey July 13th, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    This train
    Oh oh
    This train

  35. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    Hank – you may be right. That means we’re in for several lean years, I’m afraid.

  36. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    Joe is babying Almonte for screwing up the run we should have had.
    He’s a nice guy and this is his managing style but there are other ways to manage.
    Why is he accepting blame for that play?
    There are other ways to get through to a player.
    Maybe that’s why there are so many injuries.
    Letting Tex go to the WBC? Bringing back Jeter too soon, twice?
    Futzing around with Arod last year when he was hurt?
    They are too soft, no wonder Cash plays the bad cop to Girardi’s good cop.

  37. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    “Who cares whether it’s Montero or Joe Blow.”

    How does Joe Blow look in the field?
    ///

    I don’t know, but if he looks as good in the batter’s box as Montero did in 2011, who cares.

    How has what they got back looked on the mound?

    Over a season and a half of getting nothing out of that trade.

  38. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Cashman fables?

    I have posted several times Chad’s comments on his weekly chat thread but apparently those complaining the most either did not see the chat or read previous posts.

    Chad ststes that “Cashman has said numerous times he only makes suggestions and then takes direction from a rumored Hal “committee!

    Chad also said that “Cashman is one of the most respected GM’s in the league.

    I would then ask if this is accurate why the continued ragging on Cashman including my own? People with no baseball credentials making the decisions is mind boggling!

    One might question Cashman’s thinking in accepting those conditions, but can anyone doubt the owners and their lackeys are doing a horrendous job of managing this franchise?

  39. bruceb July 13th, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Military Appreciation Day at the Stadium.

    Shame the Bronx Bombers were grounded.

  40. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 4:09 pm

    Two or three more real major league hitters don’t need to work magic to possibly get this team over the hump. They just need to perform to league average for their positions. Added to Jeter, Granderson and, hopefully, ARod, along with Gardy and Cano, and you have an actual lineup.

    Consider this: Since May 21, Wells and Hafner, who have hit 4th and 5th in the majority of our games, have combined for a grand total of 12 extra base hits. 12. Wells has 4 doubles and no homers since then (his last homer was on May 15!!!), and Hafner has 4 doubles and 4 homers. Why anyone ever pitches to Cano is beyond me.

  41. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 4:10 pm

    Why on earth would Cashman be “one of the most respected” GMs?

    Is it because the others know they can take advantage of him in trades?

  42. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    MLB Newtork: “Get [Hughes] out of [Yankee Stadium]. ”

    Then rattles off PetCo, AT&T, Dodger Stadium, and Anaheim as potential destinations.
    ///

    Getting rid of Hughes is inevitable since he can walk after the season.

    The question is, what is the GM getting back for him?

  43. austinmac July 13th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    The offense scored one run again. That is the real story, as repetitive as it is. Even if the last homer had not been hit, we lose.

    I think this start does increase Hughes trade value. Outside of Yankee Stadium, he could be very good. I think he really is better than Nolasco. His value should show it if they move him.

  44. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    mick, I don’t evaluate players based on sentiment. I base wanting players on my team based solely on how much they can help my team. If I were sentimental about all the prospects I see, I would be talking up many more players. Heck, I’d still want Matsui on the team because I loved him, but that like many things wouldn’t make sense. I want a young bat that can hit. Or if you don’t like the bat we have, while it is at peak value, trade it for another bat. I don’t want to trade for pitching when we already have pitching. Yes, a core of pitching down the road would be nice. But we have already lost two years and killed our offense. That is all.

  45. Hassey July 13th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    Maybe his lack of a backswing deceives hitters but I have no clue how Phil strikes anyone out with 92 mph

  46. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    It starts at the top and George would have shown some urgency i.e. erupted or disrupted things by now.
    It’s too complacent in general.
    Pitching has gotten us this far and will keep us competitive.
    Hitting can be had, these circumstances caused by injuries could not have been foreseen and even if they were the hitting has been good enough to win 50 games and it will get better.

    They were hesitant with the int’l FA’s but thats another story.

  47. luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    Ok my two cents before I go:

    1) Hughes pitched very well… I think he was left out there too long ( 7 IP and go to the BP or let him start the 8th, but the moment he had a man on base they should have brought someone from the pen )

    2) JAP’s rmarks about RHP power pitchers giving dingers on YS or NYS is spot on… If my memory serves me well, I don’t think there hasn’t been a single Yankee contender team without LHP… There is a reason for that… LHP supress power numbers in YS

    3) This lineup can’t hit a a lick… It is frustrating to see Cano chasing pitches outside the zone… He is so alone on that lineup that nobody in their right mind would throw anything to hit to him.

    4) Pat M… Pineda could become the next ace of this rotation… But that doesn’t means that our most pressing at the time was getting young good bats on the lineup… I would think that by now, it would be rather obvious…. Again, I am not arguing the talent exchanged, but the philosophical miscue.

    5) Mick, good post answering YF… I still don’t agree with the line of thought ( I still think that an impact bat is harder to get than pitching )… But your line of thought was sound.

  48. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    “I don’t know, but if he looks as good in the batter’s box as Montero did in 2011, who cares.”

    Well, the 15 teams in the National League would care and American League teams that don’t have room at the DH position would care.

    Philosophies matter, but so do the specifics of individual players.

  49. Hassey July 13th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    If posada made that kind of throw in ’04 we’d have never even heard of terry francona

  50. JimK July 13th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    Since their high water mark of 30-18 the Yankees have scored 3 or fewer runs in 26 of 46 games.

  51. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    austinmac, agree about the offense. That is the story. And that Hughes has value. His stuff is getting better and better. Some times his location is off. That is a problem, but he could help a lot of clubs.

    Pruf, yep. Get something worthwhile for Hughes if you don’t want to/won’t be able to resign him.

  52. trisha - true pinstriped blue July 13th, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    This train is bound for glory oh this train
    This train is bound for glory oh this train
    This train is bound for glory
    If you want to get to Heaven then you’ve got to be holy
    Oh this train is bound for glory oh this train.

  53. NYY fan in NH July 13th, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    This team will never see 10 games above .500 again. No offense whatsoever and Hughes and his 4.5 era should be shipped out of town before it’s all said and done. Disgusted with this team and it’s lack of hitting

  54. luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Mick,

    I mean your post about Gio on previous thread

  55. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    “All these complaints about Cashman. When are you guys going to realize that the Yankees DO NOT have anybody good enough to trade for bats??”

    Bunk. They could easily get a couple of guys like Michael Young (.290 with a .346 obp) and Kendrys Morales, who would immediately become their two best hitters vs. lefties.

  56. Hassey July 13th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Luis – I’m sorry but I’m still convinced that you hire a typist one or two times a week

  57. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    Hans Davenport July 13th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    More home run trouble for Hughes? Barely a mention of the crappy offense? Oh well. That’s reporting I guess?
    ///

    If you’re talking about Girardi, he isn’t going to rat out players he knows are severely challenged to produce runs. The broadcast guys said several times that the offense is an issue, not that anyone needs them to confirm this.

  58. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    This train derailed – it’s off the tracks and on fire, taking the whole of Yankee fandom with it.

  59. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    I don’t want to trade for pitching when we already have pitching. Yes, a core of pitching down the road would be nice. But we have already lost two years and killed our offense. That is all.
    ========================
    YF- You know baseball. The expression “You can’t have enough pitching” was not made up in thin air and is a baseball truism.
    Didn’t we also get Campos in that deal?
    Stockpiling pitchers is very, very important as you can see this year and will see in the future.
    It’s easier to get hitting than pitching and you know that..

  60. luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:12 pm
    mick, I don’t evaluate players based on sentiment. I base wanting players on my team based solely on how much they can help my team. If I were sentimental about all the prospects I see, I would be talking up many more players. Heck, I’d still want Matsui on the team because I loved him, but that like many things wouldn’t make sense. I want a young bat that can hit. Or if you don’t like the bat we have, while it is at peak value, trade it for another bat. I don’t want to trade for pitching when we already have pitching. Yes, a core of pitching down the road would be nice. But we have already lost two years and killed our offense. That is all.

    ==============================

    Good post YF +1

  61. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    Dill – explain exactly how they can get Young and/or Morales? Who can they give up for them?

  62. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    1) Hughes pitched very well… I think he was left out there too long ( 7 IP and go to the BP or let him start the 8th, but the moment he had a man on base they should have brought someone from the pen )
    ___
    Totally agree. Also got to think Boone would have come in. Hughes had been doing well vs. lefties but this is friggin’ NYS, why are you leaving him in late vs. lefties when he would likely be losing location at that point.

    Why not bring in DRob? Because we aren’t tied? Was he too fatigued? Not sure what Joe’s thinking was. I would not have let Phil pitch after that first batter if at all in that inning.

  63. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    Boone in… had he been available, that is.

  64. trisha - true pinstriped blue July 13th, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    “I think this start does increase Hughes trade value. Outside of Yankee Stadium, he could be very good. I think he really is better than Nolasco. His value should show it if they move him.”

    Absolutely agree with you. Scouts will unequivocally know that he has the goods to pitch if his home base is a pitcher’s park.

    I think his best shot at extended success is exactly that.

  65. Hankflorida July 13th, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    Dill, you are right. Pitch around Cano and carefully to Overbay. This team may set a Yankee record of the least amount of home runs since before Ruth in the dead ball era.

  66. luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    Hassey July 13th, 2013 at 4:15 pm
    Luis – I’m sorry but I’m still convinced that you hire a typist one or two times a week

    ========================

    This is funny…. Where did screw up this time?

  67. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    5) Mick, good post answering YF… I still don’t agree with the line of thought ( I still think that an impact bat is harder to get than pitching )… But your line of thought was sound.
    ================
    I will have to change your name from El Presidente to The Professor soon.
    Thanks for the passing grade..

  68. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    Well, the 15 teams in the National League would care and American League teams that don’t have room at the DH position would care.
    ///

    If he were still here, somehow, I think, we’d find ABs for him.

  69. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    Since the thread is mainly about Hughes homer tendencies his problems are fairly evident.

    He has a smooth delivery which is good, but his mechanics allow for no deception and it appears very easy to pick up the ball out of his hand.

    Therefore when he leaves a pitch over the plate the batter will hammer it and has.

    He can be a back of the rotation guy but his deuce is too erratic and the fastball must be on the corners. A change or a split would work wonders for his arsenal.

    Maybe with another team,less pressure and a mechanics tweak it will work out for him.

    Or maybe he ends up as a set up guy in relief.

  70. igotid88 July 13th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    tbone1570 says:
    July 13, 2013 at 4:02 pm
    igotid88 July 13th, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Most of Hughes homeruns are not in most AL parks as well. I didn’t see how they were hit. But from what I’ve seen from before they were probably carried by the wind

    ——————————————————–
    This is just not true. Check out the link below and look at the ballpark overlays and you’ll see that most of his HR’s are out in any park.

    http://hittrackeronline.com/de…..pe=pitch
    ————

    I think you factor wind. If they have a higher wall. Some Hughes homeruns to right field are off the wall in Camden yards.

  71. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    Phil’s away career ERA is 4.07. Teams aren’t exactly going to be knocking down the walls for that (considering the average AL ERA this year is 4.10).

  72. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    In the alternate universe in which Girardi gives the 8th inning to Kelley and he holds the Twins scoreless, maybe the Yanks are able to eke out a 2nd run to tie up the game and maybe even more.

    Which is to say, the offense was AWOL once again and Phil gets some of the blame for the loss too. Nothing new about that.

  73. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    Good post YF +1
    ===========
    How does this grading system work?
    Is it on a 1-10 basis….

  74. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    Agree that the slider was really really good through 7.

  75. trisha - true pinstriped blue July 13th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    Hughes’s inconsisteny has been a problem and he’s had games where he’s put the team in a hole rather quickly as well as games where the runs have come in later innings. So this isn’t just about pulling him in time.

    The truth of the matter is that he has a tendency to give up the long ball.

    That’s why he would fare so much better in a pitcher’s park. That is as obvious as the day is long, IMO, and of course when we lose, for many the day is quite long.

    :)

  76. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    Phil’s a better pitcher now than his cumulative away ERA, so I don’t think that is relevant.

  77. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    Niblick, Michael Young is not going to cost a fortune in players. A B-level prospect should get it done.

    Morales may cost more, due to the fact that he is due for a QO from the Mariners, but he can be had. We’re not talking about Joey Votto here.

    And if the price for Morales is too high for our “brain trust,” there are other decent bats on the market who would fit and wouldn’t cost the whole farm.

  78. luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    Mick,

    Please don’t think i am being condescendant… Just that i think it is a good thought out post… No grades ;)

  79. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    “If he were still here, somehow, I think, we’d find ABs for him.”

    I agree; everyone who’s here gets ABs.

    But we don’t know if he would still be here even if he was still here. That’s a question of faith, not proof.

  80. I Am Winning July 13th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Pitching all year long, and only has 4 wins and 9 loses to show for it. Good work.

  81. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:23 pm

    Heading out for homemade ice cream. I need some soothing. BL.

  82. luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Later YF

  83. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Do we even have a B level prospect?

  84. Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Once again. There’ll be no Kuroda and Pettite next season, in fact at the time of the trade for Pineda ( who was an All-Star ) the rotation was CC, Hughes and Nova. Next season it’s CC, Nova & Phelps, so to even say that Pineda wasn’t a needed move is absurd.

  85. sunny615 July 13th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    I think the Padres have a used bag of balls available to trade for Hughes.

  86. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    Prez….

    Please don’t think i am being condescendant…
    ===================
    You were once called a con.
    And we all are descendants.
    I’ll take you at face value, whoever you are…

  87. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    The odds that anyone will change their current opinion about the Montero/Pineda trade based on someone else’s reasoning in this thread are smaller than the odds that Girardi will come back out to the podium and start ripping the team for losing to the Twins today.

  88. luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Pat M,

    I guess we will disagree on this matter… I think Kuroda returns, then we have JRam, Maybe DePaula, Warren and Marshall on the wings… Of course, I don’t know how most of them have faired so far in the minors

  89. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
    Do we even have a B level prospect?

    ————————————————–

    :) While I realize that there is a sense of gloom and doom because most of our top prospects haven’t exactly stepped up this year, yes, we do still have some prospects who could net us a couple of actual major league bats like Michael Young and Kendrys Morales.

  90. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Pat M…Kuroda could be back, not sure on Andy or if Yanks would want to pay him 10m+

  91. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    The blame game, now we are told Hughes was left in too long.

    The guy was pitching great even with the two dingers, one of which was the YS pop up variety.

    He was dominant without any run support and then hung another slurve to the nine hitter.

    But he did pitch well up to that point so why would Girardi take him out either at the start of the inning or vs Florimon who is a #9 hitter?

    The point being up until that HR he was dominant so where does the mgr. come in for any criticism?

  92. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    Nick, I think he would help this dreadful offense, and that he remains a very talented young hitter – one particularly suited to Yankee Stadium. More talented than any we have in the system and certainly than anyone who is remotely close to the majors.

  93. luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    Thanks Mick

  94. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    The odds that anyone will change their current opinion about the Montero/Pineda trade
    ================
    Disagree…I think some have.

  95. luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    Got to go…. Have a good one all

  96. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    The odds that anyone will change their current opinion about the Montero/Pineda trade based on someone else’s reasoning in this thread are smaller than the odds that Girardi will come back out to the podium and start ripping the team for losing to the Twins today.
    ///

    I agree! We all know where we all stand…that is, we all know where we who actually took a stand, stand.

  97. austinmac July 13th, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    Mick,

    Plus 1 means the point may be repeated one more time by the poster. If someone does it to one of my posts I interpret it to mean I must repeat it ten times. It’s simply a decimal’s worth of difference.

  98. Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    What is interesting with the graphic on the homeruns is how insane the New Stadium is to right when compared to the old joint. Straigt away right looks like it’s 330 . The original was 344 and the remolded YS was 353 ( ? ). It’s a nine to the scoreboard and that’s short for even a HS Varsity field

  99. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    I’ve got to run because the place is closing, but is Pineda better than what we already have? Will have in pitchers such as Banuelos, Ramirez, etc? Especially after the surgery? Do we need Pineda more than we need a bat? Couldn’t we have just signed Darvish? Is Pineda worth losing two years of a player who would have replaced him and is waiting two years on him worth it? I sure hope so. I would love to be the Rays but we need to add some hitting as well… Later.

  100. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    And yet somehow, outside of Cano and occasionally Lyle Overbay, we have nobody who can hit it out at home or anywhere else.

  101. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    I have a trade idea: can we make a reverse trade: cmnsnse for Jay Mills?

    I miss his light, zany kindness and poetic acuities.

    Later.

  102. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    Mac-
    I don’t know what to make of that.
    Is that way the same points are made 1000 times here?
    +1000?

  103. tbone1570 July 13th, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    I think you factor wind. If they have a higher wall. Some Hughes homeruns to right field are off the wall in Camden yards.

    —————————–

    Look at the overlay, you’re talking one home run that would hve ben off the wall in Camden Yards.

  104. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    luis, I hope Kuroda comes back too, but it doesn’t seem likely if they stick to the $189 million ceiling*.

    Which is a good reason why they shouldn’t.

    *pending some potential Arod development.

  105. NYY fan in NH July 13th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    This team is like a slow death gradually through a 162 game season. Slowly creeping out of playoff contention, but just enough to think they have hope

  106. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Young another fading vet and Morales who is strictly a DH.

    We will be taken to the cleaners by both teams to acquire players who don’t fit here beyond this year.

    And what do we give up? And what do we do with the other DH types we have here,unless you believe they will have a wholesale DFA week?

    And what happens if Arod and Jeter come back and have to be used in that capacity, and Granderson makes another O.F. surplus!

  107. Captain Clutch July 13th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Cashman got what he deserves this year with the offense. He hasn’t upgraded the offense in 4 years and they went into the season knowing that Jeter and Arod were going to miss a lot of time. It’s almost like Cashman just assumed that whoever they brought in would be enough. It doesn’t work that way and when almost everyone on the team is 35 plus you are asking for trouble. Even when they have younger players who might be able to help they don’t want to give them a chance anyway.

  108. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    I agree! We all know where we all stand…that is, we all know where we who actually took a stand, stand.
    ============
    Why do you ALWAYS have to be condescending?
    Luis and YF get it- you do not.

  109. Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    Has anybody watched Montero since he arrived in Seattle ??? Idid and it wasn’t pretty . And of course this offense is going to be thin and weak when you lose 4 All Star quality ballplayers. .

  110. austinmac July 13th, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    Yes, Mick you understand my concept. Any of my ideas you want repeated another thousand times?

  111. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
    Once again. There’ll be no Kuroda and Pettite next season.
    —————-
    And no Rivera, Logan or Hughes.

    What FA starter in their right mind would want to sign on in the offseason with an offensive offense and one that has been saddled with injured players in decline whose contracts will be an albatross to a “quick” fix if the Steinbrenner’s have no inclination to spend again.

    I’m a long time Yankee fan but this team is just plain exasperating and boring to watch.

  112. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    “…that is, we all know where we who actually took a stand, stand.”

    :?:

  113. yankeefeminista July 13th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    mick, let’s all give each other the benefit of the doubt. Gotta go, back later.

  114. luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Mick and Mac… What +1 means to me is that I support what has been written like I would have written it myself.

    Nick,

    Good point… I forgot about that little detail of the cap :(

    Later all

  115. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    JAP, are you trolling, I’m up for it whenever you are?

    Nothing personal but if you dance I’ll be your partner as long as you keep the “weeping” to a minimum! ;)

  116. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    Mac-
    I have been happy with you lately when I realized you saw my genius.
    Don’t wreck it as you have shown progression like Luis.

  117. JimK July 13th, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    Another not very encouraging note: Since the Yankees were 30-18, they have gone 21-25, but 7 of their 21 wins were sweeps of Cleveland and the Twins and another 3 came against Seattle. This makes them 11-24 against every other team(the one loss to Seattle is number 25).

  118. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    mick, let’s all give each other the benefit of the doubt.
    =============
    i try YF….but it isn’t up to me, it’s up to you all.

  119. Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    Pruf……Here’s my stand dating back to last August, Yanks should have moved Cano, Granderson and even Hughes this past winter to set the foundation for a new and more youthful ball club. Things got worse of course when Texeria and Granderson went down and now we have this .

  120. tbone1570 July 13th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Pat M,

    I guess we will disagree on this matter… I think Kuroda returns, then we have JRam, Maybe DePaula, Warren and Marshall on the wings… Of course, I don’t know how most of them have faired so far in the minors

    ************************
    luis,

    If you don’t know how they’re doing in the minors this year, how can you count on them being good enough to be “waiting in then wings”?

  121. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Mick and Mac… What +1 means to me is that I support what has been written like I would have written it myself.
    ===========
    Luis, but not everything you write is correct ;) (unlike mine)

  122. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 4:34 pm
    “Young another fading vet and Morales who is strictly a DH. We will be taken to the cleaners by both teams to acquire players who don’t fit here beyond this year. And what do we give up? And what do we do with the other DH types we have here,unless you believe they will have a wholesale DFA week? And what happens if Arod and Jeter come back and have to be used in that capacity, and Granderson makes another O.F. surplus!”

    —————————————————————-

    You can keep saying that Young is “a fading vet” until you are blue in the face, but the statement is actually contradicted by something called facts. Yes, he’s a vet, but he’s hitting .290 with a .346 obp. He would immediately become the best right-handed bat we have in the lineup. And he’s only under contract through this season, and wouldn’t cost much. And he’s versatile, he can play a lot of positions.

    As for Morales being a dh (he can also play first), have you been watching Hafner lately? (And by “lately” I mean, since April) We need a dh! And neither of these guys (or other bats on the market like them) is going to cost the farm.

    As for Granderson causing an “outfield surplus” …. really? We have a surplus of outfielders the way they have a surplus of pig poop at a hog farm. Vernon Wells hits an occasional single, after going more than a month hitting .100. Zoilo has come back to earth after a hot start.

  123. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    What used to be a roster of Who’s Who under the Bosses reign, is now a roster of Who’s That.

    From today’s NY Times

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07.....1&

  124. mick July 13th, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    This is the reason some can’t get it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySjLLX_Op8?

  125. Yankee Trader July 13th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    Everyone have a great evening. See some of you at the breakfast club.

  126. JimK July 13th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2coygw1HT0

  127. J. Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    Pat M – I’m all for rebuilding but not with Cano, unless you can replace him with mid-70s Joe
    Morgan.
    But we
    Agree in principle.

  128. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    Nice one, JimK,but I’m afraid that’s going to sail over the heads of everyone who doesn’t get it already or isn’t patient enough to get to the third verse.

  129. bruceb July 13th, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    Very good line that, YT.

  130. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    The Cano movers are out again today.

    If the Yanks lose Cano, there’s no reason to watch them. He’s near the top of the league in OPS, WAR, etc. Probably the first or second best hitting 2B in all of baseball history. And you people want to move him? You’re all crazy.

  131. implosion July 13th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    No we are not crazy. Look at Hamilton and Albert. Lesson learned?? Let him go rap with the punk Jay-Z. Screw him and all these over paid punks

  132. implosion July 13th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    Cano is not now nor will he ever live up to his potential. There is a shelf life on potential in case you have not heard.

  133. CompassRosy July 13th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    I’d be extremely surprised if the M’s dealt Morales. Obviously, baring a miracle, they are going no where this season but, that doesn’t mean a player like Morales doesn’t have value – not just for what he’s doing on the field but also for what his presence in the clubhouse and in the dugout means to the “kids”. By all accounts, his work ethic and willingness to share his knowledge and experience is very similar to Raul’s . . . 2 pretty good influences for all these young players. Couple that with the QO process and it just wouldn’t make sense.

    Oliver Perez is the Mariner likely moved proor to the TD.

  134. trisha - true pinstriped blue July 13th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    “Once again. There’ll be no Kuroda and Pettite next season, in fact at the time of the trade for Pineda ( who was an All-Star ) the rotation was CC, Hughes and Nova. Next season it’s CC, Nova & Phelps, so to even say that Pineda wasn’t a needed move is absurd.”

    Pat M – all you have to do is go and look at the list of pitchers we were “assured” we’d have by some of the people who were upset about the Montero trade to see just how absurd it is. I guarantee you that most of them are either not around or nowhere near MLB ready.

    It’s both an irrelevant and worthless argument since nobody can guarantee that any list of pitchers will be the same grouping that shows up at any time during the season. The saying “you can never have enough pitching” comes from endless seasons of experiencing the reality.

  135. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    Here we go again – the same old bs – he’s lazy, he’s got a low baseball IQ, he isn’t living up to his potential. You’re just a racist.

  136. Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    So Niblick. Is Cano more valuable as a trade commodity or as the # 3 hitter on a .500 ballclub going nowhere but down ???? I’ve said this before, his best years are behind him and his most expensive years lie ahead. Are you ready to allocate 25 million per for the next 6-7 seasons ??? Please say no

  137. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    Yes, you’re crazy.

    What are you going to move him for? Prospects? Who may or may not even ever get to the show? Who may or may not ever become average big league players?

    We aren’t the Marlins.

    Hitters like Cano don’t come along very often. The Yanks need to get some major league hitters around him and stop penny-pinching, not get rid of one of the best players in the game and the only real threat they have in the lineup.

  138. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    IMO as long as the Yankees are withing striking distance of a playoff spot (they are) they will not be rebuilding anything this year.

    In fact they are more likely to be buyers.

    I’d almost bet that Cashman has been working the phones for a while now to see what offers come back for both Chamberlain as well as Hughes.

  139. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    Of course, you pay Cano what the market requires to pay to keep him.

    No need to beg me to say no, because I won’t.

    Every free agent’s best years are behind him and most expensive years ahead of him. Haven’t you been paying attention at all over the last 20 years. That’s the game.

  140. trisha - true pinstriped blue July 13th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    “This is the reason some can’t get it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MySjLLX_Op8?”

    mick, kills me that I never got to see them in concert. Same with CSNY. I did however see Peter, Paul, and Mary, probably past their prime but still a great concert.

  141. luis July 13th, 2013 at 5:17 pm

    tbone1570 July 13th, 2013 at 4:40 pm
    luis July 13th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    Pat M,

    I guess we will disagree on this matter… I think Kuroda returns, then we have JRam, Maybe DePaula, Warren and Marshall on the wings… Of course, I don’t know how most of them have faired so far in the minors

    ************************
    luis,

    If you don’t know how they’re doing in the minors this year, how can you count on them being good enough to be “waiting in then wings”?

    ===============================

    If you have already 4 spots secured ( CC, Kuroda, Nova and Phelps ), you just need one more pitcher… So regardless, you will have plenty of options for that fifth spot ( Warren, Nuno, Marshall, DePaula, probably Banuelos and J Ram )…. I am sure that at least one will make the grade… I qualified my post, because last time i checked JRam was struggling

  142. Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    Niblick. Actually I’ve been paying attention for longer than 20 years. And stick that racist bullsht up your ass

  143. bruceb July 13th, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    How did the Orioles manage to steal Murderers’ Row from the Yankees?

  144. luis July 13th, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Luis, but not everything you write is correct ;) (unlike mine)

    =======================

    This is very true… If I had nickel for everytime i have been wrong I would be a very, very, rich man.

    About you never been wrong well…… ;)

  145. Niblick July 13th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Ah, I guess I hit a nerve, didn’t I?

    When you lose an argument, always go to the “up your ass” line. That works every time.

    You claim you’re an expert because at one time you played catch with someone, but your analytical skills are sorely lacking.

  146. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Phil Hughes should be offered along w. a negotiating window to Western Teams.

    i.e. Dodgers, Halos, Pads, SF, D’backs, Rox, M’s, etc.

    His trade value increases with the opportunity to extend him.

    If necessary package him w several others to bring back a useful piece for the future.

    He should do a lot better in a larger stadium and with a change of scenery.

    I doubt very much professional evaluators see Hughes the way some of our LoHudders do.

    There would probably be a lot of surprised faces if they heard the actual evaluations.

  147. 27titlesto7 July 13th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    You would think that the Yankees would learn their lesson.Giving Cano or any player for that matter more than 5 years would be insane for any player age 30 or over.

  148. Hans Davenport July 13th, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Shame Spencer July 13th, 2013 at 3:55 pm
    bruceb July 13th, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Fourth time in nine games during this home stand that the offense has scored only one run. After the ASB, we’re on the road to nowhere I’m afraid.

    ————

    Scary numbers.

    Two or less in 5 of the last seven. That’s this week alone.

  149. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 5:23 pm

    “So regardless, you will have plenty of options for that fifth spot ( Warren, Nuno, Marshall, DePaula, probably Banuelos and J Ram )…”

    Are you forbidden by the MLF manifesto from even considering Pineda as a rotation option for 2014???

  150. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Does anyone know Nuno’s status ?

    TIA

  151. Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Luis… I admire your dedication to the Yanks farm system, however the guys you’ve mentioned are years away from making an impact at the Big League level. None of them can even come close to Hughes or Kennedy’s Minor League resumes and we all have seen how that process has played out. Nova ( just 6 months younger than Hughes ) has been sent down twice in the past few seasons for re-adjustments. It’s worked in the past only for him to lose his way and struggle. I do hope Kuroda returns as I’ve been a fan of his ever since he hit The States. Yanks need Pineda to return in a big way and get back on the path of being a true stud pitcher.

  152. luis July 13th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    MTU,

    I agree about giving a window of negotiations with Hughes ( especially the Padres )… But if they managed to strike a deal, I wouldn’t add much to the package… They are getting a potential number two ( he will thrive on that park ) at mid/back rotation price… I would want Headley in exchange

  153. Rich in NJ July 13th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    At least Michael Young may not be available, which is some good news if true.

  154. trisha - true pinstriped blue July 13th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    tbone, if you take a look at the list of pitchers some of the Montero supporters assured would have been just fine if only the Yankees had gotten Montero, you’ll see that it is patently absurd for anyone to make those guarantees. I don’t think most of them have sniffed the major. You’re right – there’s absolutely nothing that says any promised pitchers would ever be ready or would unequivocally come up and get the job done. That’s why the organization endeavors to have tried and true pitchers in the mix.

  155. Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    And further more Niblick, you possess the same fine qualities of someone that visits here and is near and dear to my heart. Now get your head out of your Niblick

  156. luis July 13th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Oops! Thanks Nick, I spaced out… Yes, Pineda should and will be in next year rotation… So that probably fixes the problem… Even if Kuroda doesn’t return

  157. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Rich in NJ July 13th, 2013 at 5:26 pm
    At least Michael Young may not be available, which is some good news if true.

    ———————————————————————

    Yes, if you’re a fan of watching Alberto Gonzalez and Luis Cruz play 3rd base for the Yankees, Vernon Wells and Travis Hafner continue to dh, and Lyle Overbay continue to play first base against lefties.

  158. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    Pat M.-

    “Yanks need Pineda to return in a big way and get back on the path of being a true stud pitcher.”

    They may need it but the odds are not in their favor.

    Anibal Sanchez is one of the better comps for Pineda.

    It took him more than 2 years to regain his full form.

    And he represents the best case type scenario.

    I wouldn’t expect quick results with Pineda. Expecting setbacks is much more realistic IMO.

    I hope I’m wrong.

  159. Rich in NJ July 13th, 2013 at 5:30 pm

    “Yes, if you’re a fan of watching Alberto Gonzalez and Luis Cruz play 3rd base for the Yankees, Vernon Wells and Travis Hafner continue to dh, and Lyle Overbay continue to play first base against lefties.”

    I’m a fan of putting together a team of players that are young and actually good. Not marginal aging veterans to serve as yet another band-aid on a team that has been badly assembled for several years.

  160. Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    “Yes, Pineda should and will be in next year rotation…”

    Hopefully! I’m not counting on him to be anything yet, though. I think, under just about any scenario we can dream up with the arms we have in the system and arms we might get via trade or FA, the 2014 rotation would still be better with Kuroda coming back.

    I doubt there is a single person alive who knows how likely that is, however, and that includes Hiroki Kuroda.

    Actually, Hal etc. might have an idea of how likely it isn’t depending on the planned fidelity to the salary cap goal. I guess they can afford Kuroda if they want to let Cano go. :neutral:

  161. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    Luis-

    You would not get Headley straight up for Hughes even w the negotiating window IMO.

    I believe it would take more.

    If the Pads would do that I’d put Hughes on a plane faster than you can say Canaima.

    ;)

  162. luis July 13th, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 5:24 pm
    Luis… I admire your dedication to the Yanks farm system, however the guys you’ve mentioned are years away from making an impact at the Big League level. None of them can even come close to Hughes or Kennedy’s Minor League resumes and we all have seen how that process has played out. Nova ( just 6 months younger than Hughes ) has been sent down twice in the past few seasons for re-adjustments. It’s worked in the past only for him to lose his way and struggle. I do hope Kuroda returns as I’ve been a fan of his ever since he hit The States. Yanks need Pineda to return in a big way and get back on the path of being a true stud pitcher.

    ========================================

    I am not that sure that they are so far and away from helping…But I agree, they need Pineda to become the stud pitcher that he projects to be… On Nova, sure he has struggled, but I am willing to bet that he will have a higher ceiling than Pineda in the end…

  163. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    “I’m a fan of putting together a team of players that are young and actually good. Not marginal aging veterans to serve as yet another band-aid on a team that has been badly assembled for several years.”

    ——————————————-

    He is what he is. A rental. Who hits. In case you haven’t been watching lately, we have about three guys in our lineup right now who can hit. Yet we’re still in the race. Young would be a vast improvement to what we are fielding now.

    If Young were signed beyond this season, your point might be valid, but he’s not. He’ll be gone at the end of the year, and he wouldn’t cost much, from all reports.

  164. luis July 13th, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    Pat M,

    By the way… You know that I am all in in a rebuilding process… The soner they start the better

  165. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    Dill Pickler, while I admire the passion, to say that Young is whatt we need at this point is patently ridiculous inview of it’s short term thinking.

    What are you not seeing, this is an aging, injury prone team no matter who comes back.

    There are more holes on this roster than pig poop on your farm, and you do not add to the “waste”pile by bringing in more past their prime vets.

    We need to trust our development program but put people on notice that if it doesn’t produce their gone.We also need to determine if we have a functioning GM with authority who is allegedly respected around MLB.

    When the farm has been laid waste by whomever, those people need to move on or out.

    Short term thinking and not paying attention to details is why we are in the personnel crapper( no pun intended)!

    Unless you’re preparing for the winter beer league with the fat and forties! ;)

  166. luis July 13th, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    Nick in SF July 13th, 2013 at 5:32 pm
    “Yes, Pineda should and will be in next year rotation…”

    Hopefully! I’m not counting on him to be anything yet, though. I think, under just about any scenario we can dream up with the arms we have in the system and arms we might get via trade or FA, the 2014 rotation would still be better with Kuroda coming back.

    I doubt there is a single person alive who knows how likely that is, however, and that includes Hiroki Kuroda.

    Actually, Hal etc. might have an idea of how likely it isn’t depending on the planned fidelity to the salary cap goal. I guess they can afford Kuroda if they want to let Cano go. :neutral:

    =============================

    I agree… and taking in to account the cap, I think you are right… If they resign Kuroda, they will have to let go Cano… Kinda like pick your poison.

    Although, I agree with Pat M that they should look to trade Cano… Not happening though I think

  167. Pat M. July 13th, 2013 at 5:39 pm

    Luis….I’ve always liked Nova , even thought he’d be a candidate for Rookie of the year. However although it was brief, Michael Pineda was as good of a young pitcher as I’ve seen in a long time. MTU, I think some of what you say is or can be true, much depends on how The Yanks handle his return physically. Maybe if all is well he gets a call up in late August or September to get a sniff of Big League baseball again.

  168. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    I have posted this article on labrum surgery outcomes before :

    http://www.baseballprospectus......leid=16634

    It represents a survey of the outcomes of labrum surgeries done by the research dep’t. of Baseball prospectus.

    I urge everyone to read it and to then draw your own conclusions.

    I think it will set your expectations for Michael Pineda much more realistically.

    I apologize if any of you have already seen it.

    I think it’s very well done.

  169. Rich in NJ July 13th, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    He is what he is. A rental. Who hits. In case you haven’t been watching lately, we have about three guys in our lineup right now who can hit. Yet we’re still in the race. Young would be a vast improvement to what we are fielding now.

    If Young were signed beyond this season, your point might be valid, but he’s not. He’ll be gone at the end of the year, and he wouldn’t cost much, from all reports.
    _

    A 108 OPS+ after an 80 OPS+ last year. IOW, an old band-aid, as I said.

    It’s time to stop the anti-ninja moves that our stellar GM has made over the last few years and get younger.

    They should be sellers.

  170. Hans Davenport July 13th, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    . Alfred Prufrock July 13th, 2013 at 4:15 pm
    Hans Davenport July 13th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    More home run trouble for Hughes? Barely a mention of the crappy offense? Oh well. That’s reporting I guess?
    ///

    If you’re talking about Girardi, he isn’t going to rat out players he knows are severely challenged to produce runs. The broadcast guys said several times that the offense is an issue, not that anyone needs them to confirm this.

    Sorry Al , I didn’t get back to you. No, not Girardi, I know better. No, whoever wrote the article. Not a mention of 7 games this week, 4 games with 1 run and 1 game with 2 runs. Hughes wasn’t great. No scoring though. Then, the manager who inevitably cannot tell when a pitcher is tiring. He’s gotten away with it for years because the offense was scoring runs.
    Ever see any of these writers say, “Again, Girardi failed to pull (insert pitcher’s name) as he was tiring.

  171. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    Dill, you keep saying Young will not cost much, so if you’re Amaro what are you looking for “rental”wise?

    “Reports” please from whom team plants in the sport’s pages?

  172. Hans Davenport July 13th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    luis July 13th, 2013 at 5:27 pm
    Oops! Thanks Nick, I spaced out… Yes, Pineda should and will be in next year rotation… So that probably fixes the problem… Even if Kuroda doesn’t return

    Kuroda will be 39.

  173. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    Pat M.-

    Labrum outcomes are not all that easy to predict.

    Even when relatively successful setbacks are common.

    Please read the article I posted above and I think you’ll get a better idea of where I’m coming from.

    ;)

  174. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    Pat M.-

    One more thing to put into the hopper.

    Remember that Michael has a violent, max. effort type delivery.

    His mechanics are pretty far from ideal.

  175. joeman July 13th, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    trade Hughes in a NY minute for a right handed hitter

  176. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    Hans, re: offense comments. Did you watch Jack Curry’s segment on the pregame?

    I think the offensive woes have been beaten to death, but solutions are much harder to come by than complaints about the obvious.

  177. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    comnsnse, I’m not saying Young is ALL we need, or that getting him (or any single bat) would fix everything. He’s a piece. We obviously need more, and have to hope that Jeter, Grandy and ARod return and improve on what we have in their place now (not too difficult).

    And it’s not short term thinking. If Young were signed for 2 or 3 years and would cost a lot in prospects, then yes, it would be short term thinking, and I wouldn’t advocate it. But he’s not and he wouldn’t. He’s a piece that could help us get to the postseason, at a low cost that ends after the season.

  178. Hankflorida July 13th, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    There is no question that you build a team to fit the stadium that they play in. Mel Ott was a N.Y. Giant right fielder who would raise his front foot in the air and pull the ball 258 ft into the right field seats. Ott hit over 500 home runs playing all his home games in the Polo Grounds. Granderson has proved that he can pull the ball into the seats, and because of Hal’s cap, he will be cut adrift and will be gone next year. Does any one doubt that if he did not get hurt this year, he would have provided the punch to alter some of the Yank’s one run losses. Sign him and Cano and fill in with some with other hitters who fit our stadium. Forget about the 189 million.

  179. RMS July 13th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    The sooner Hughes gets out of NY the better for him and Yankee fans. No matter how good he looks, i.e., the strikeouts, he still gives up too many homers at YS.

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    ——————–

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  181. Captain Clutch July 13th, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Cashman should only trade for players at the deadline if they are signed for next year also. It doesn’t make sense to trade for a player that is a free agent next year since this team isn’t only 1 or 2 players away. They aren’t out of the race yet but they aren’t going anywhere this year. Cashman has to learn what the word build means and start doing it instead of always dumpster diving to try and patch things up for the moment.

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  183. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    It occurs to me that “buying time” can be very expensive.

    Sometimes prohibitively so.

    :(

  184. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 5:43 pm
    “Dill, you keep saying Young will not cost much, so if you’re Amaro what are you looking for “rental”wise?”

    ———————————————–

    It’s been widely reported that the Phillies would want a bullpen arm. The name Joba Chamberlain has come up.

  185. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    I would give the Phillies Joba for Young in a heartbeat.

    Even faster.

    In a nanosecond.

    I don’t think they’d even consider it.

  186. Rich in NJ July 13th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    “Does any one doubt that if he did not get hurt this year, he would have provided the punch to alter some of the Yank’s one run losses”

    Sure some, but he is too one-dimensional to want to keep given their budget long-term, especially since next year will be his age 33 season.

  187. Rich in NJ July 13th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    “I would give the Phillies Joba for Young in a heartbeat.”

    I’d rather trade him for some more IFA flexibility.

  188. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    RMS-

    I am firmly of the opinion that Cashman has been actively fielding offers for Hughes as we speak and before.

    If he finds a match. He’s gone.

    It takes a while for the trade market to form.

  189. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Pineda a lock for the 2014 rotation, not.

    Why based on fact not hope? Serious injury with insufficient body of work to date to determine velocity etc. for 25 starts.

    Minmal MLB creds to date to analyze just how good he might be.

    Conclusion, when the Yanks made this deal it was predicated on a top pitching prospect for a top offensive prospect.

    The jury is still out on the offensive prospect and just being seated for voir dire for the pitching prospect.

    And it both cases they’re still only prospects and suspect until proven otherwise.

  190. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Rich in NJ: “A 108 OPS+ after an 80 OPS+ last year. IOW, an old band-aid, as I said. It’s time to stop the anti-ninja moves that our stellar GM has made over the last few years and get younger. They should be sellers.”

    —————————————————

    Young is hitting .290 with a .346 obp. In his last 31 games, he’s hit .339 with eight doubles, four home runs, and 15 RBIs.

    That’s an old band-aid we could have used over the past month.

    We’re a couple of games out of the playoffs right now, with some pretty big names due to hopefully return after the all-star break. I don’t think you throw away a chance to go to the postseason, and I don’t think the Yankees are going to be sellers.

  191. Captain Clutch July 13th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    Young isn’t going to be worth what the Phillies will want for him. The Phillies are a real organization that expected to win this year not like the Mariners or Astros. If they are trading a player it’s because they are getting something good in return. A team would really have to overpay if they are getting one of their players.

  192. MTU July 13th, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    New line of thinking ——–>

  193. luis July 13th, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    Pat M,

    I agree… Pineda’s first half was a thing of beauty

    Now bear with me for a little while on why I think Nova will have the better career ( health permitting ):

    1) Nova already has a better repertoire than Pineda. The former has two plus pitches ( CB and Slider ), one potential plus ( sinker, if he manages to throw it consistently ) and one good 4th pitch ( CU )… The latter, has two plus pitches in theory ( FB and Slider ), I have my reservations that he will ever hit 98-99 again… But a mid 90′s FB is still plus… I wonder though how his slider will be affected by this slight loss of velocity… I am afraid that he may end up being another Joba ( he never regained that 88-90 slider and only occasionally he hit 98 nowadays )… Then he has the CU, I don’t know how good that pitch is as of yet.

    2) Makeup… I don’t know if you had the chance to read my post the other night about Nova and Hughes… At the MLB level I believe that with similar stuff, the difference is made mostly by mental toughness… Pineda showing up in bad shape in ST represents a red flag IMO… So I have to give Nova the edge here ( i still recall his debut against the Jays and the way he stood his ground to Bautista )

    3) Both their deliveries are very violent… But the last i have seen from Nova, he has shown a much more consistent delivery with less stress… i haven’t seen Pineda’s lately so this could be a moot point.

    Thoughts?

  194. comnsnse July 13th, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    Rich, you’re confusing me. Are you for or against short term solutions?

    Is the unhappiness with Joba not performing to expectations fueling a decision….by fans, but perhaps not the organization?

    He is young healthy albeit looking more like Rick Reuschel every day, with a big arm and good breaking pitches.

    He too may be undervalued and another GM may believe in him because of those attributes.

  195. Dill Pickler July 13th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    “Young isn’t going to be worth what the Phillies will want for him. The Phillies are a real organization that expected to win this year not like the Mariners or Astros. If they are trading a player it’s because they are getting something good in return. A team would really have to overpay if they are getting one of their players.”

    —————————————————

    Perhaps, but we don’t know that, and reports actually contradict your guess. Why would you assume that a team would have to “overpay” to get him? Just because we might have to give them a decent relief pitcher or prospect doesn’t equal “overpaying” if it helps get us to the postseason. If what has been reported is true, they want a bullpen arm for Young. We need offense, and I would definitely be willing to part with a bullpen arm for a hitter like Young.

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