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Melancon: “Given a little more time, you’d see the same results”

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 15, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Mark Melancon

If you lost track of Mark Melancon after his 15 games with the Yankees, his spot on the National League All-Star team might be stunning. Despite coming through the Yankees system as a highly touted reliever — one of those prospects occasionally touted as the heir to Mariano Rivera — Melancon never really emerged with the Yankees. He walked too many, didn’t strike out enough.

This season, he’s been the Pirates setup man, with only four walks and 46 strikeouts through 44.1 innings.

“I think I have a little experience under my belt, which helps,” Melancon said. “I’m really locating a lot better, and part of that is some mechanics stuff. I really got some great help this year in spring training. Sometimes when you get to the big leagues people expect you and think you know everything, and that’s not always the case. For the second time out of four teams, I’ve really, really advanced my knowledge of pitching and it’s been fun to go in and sit and watch video and really cut to different points in the delivery and really know my delivery so well. When I’m out there, I’m fine-tuning constantly. It’s a lot of fun. It’s just amazing how much that knowledge helps while you’re out in between the lines.”

Was Melancon not ready or able to learn those sort of details and make those sort of adjustments with the Yankees?

“I felt prepared; I felt equipped,” he said. “I just think the leash is so much shorter that you don’t get an opportunity to go through a struggle or two. Sometimes that can be rough on confidence or just physically in general, you don’t feel like people have your back. And that’s not the case — and I knew that wasn’t the case — but I think given a little more time, you’d see the same results. It’s just you don’t get the same results (right away), and I understand that and I appreciate that. That’s why we won a World Series in 2009 is because of that attitude and I wouldn’t want it any other way, to be honest.”

Associated Press photo

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199 Responses to “Melancon: “Given a little more time, you’d see the same results””

  1. JT July 15th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    Developed by the New York Yankees organization….

  2. fantasygame101 July 15th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    too many walks or pitches thrown, seems familiar to most of the Yankees relievers. I wonder if AJ also got help from the pirates pitching coaches.

  3. MTU July 15th, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    Bottom line:

    It takes patience to develop young arms.

    There isn’t a 1 size fits all approach. Some guys guy take longer than others.

    That time window in Yankeeland is shorter than in many other places.

    I think the Yankees have learned a lot on the fly. At least I hope so.

  4. J. Alfred Prufrock July 15th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    I seem to remember this fellow…

    Nick in SF… I left you the Elvis stuff on last thread. Since it’s ever so slenderly related to “baseball” talk, I’ll leave it there, for you.

    Thanks :D

  5. J. Alfred Prufrock July 15th, 2013 at 4:28 pm

    Mark Melancon once disappeared for 17 days… they finally found him in the bullpen. It seems he’d been there all along.

    Soon after that, he disappeared entirely. :(

  6. Shame Spencer July 15th, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    Not Nick, JAP. He’s not as punctual.

  7. DCYankee July 15th, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    What about the time he failed in the Boston pen?

  8. J. Alfred Prufrock July 15th, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    Melancon speaking in code :)

    The Yankees have relievers up the wazoo, but I always thought Melancon could have helped us and didn’t really get a chance to succeed.

  9. Wave Your Hat July 15th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    If I was Mark Melancon’s mom or wife, I’d be happy for him. But given the way he’s traveled around since the Yanks traded him, I don’t think you can conclude much about the Yanks from his experience in NY.

  10. J. Alfred Prufrock July 15th, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    WYH,

    I can conclude that they loved him for awhile, then they brought him up, pitched him with mixed results, sat him down, and then allowed a 17-day interim to pass before they pitched him again, and then decided they didn’t like him. They didn’t like his delivery, ultimately, I think.

    They have a lot of relievers, but it’s another instance of how “development” happens here.

  11. J. Alfred Prufrock July 15th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Well dude it wasn’t for you.

    My bad. I need to pay more attention to punctuation, I guess.

  12. AndyFTM July 15th, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Pirates have two former Yankee farm products (Melancon and Tabata) that I hoped we would keep for the long haul. Absolutely loved watching Melancon pitch in the minors and Tabata always had great tools.

    Can’t wait to watch Harper swing away tonight…he’s got talent that you very rarely see from a 20 year old.

  13. Shame Spencer July 15th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    I do come up with one or two good ones throughout the course of a season.

  14. Hankflorida July 15th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    Hankflorida July 15th, 2013 at 4:35 pm
    J. Alfred Prufrock July 15th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
    Nick in SF,

    I have an obscure Elvis song question for you.

    I had never heard or knew about Elvis’s song, “Suit of Lights,” and I found the lyrics very interesting. Does the meaning of this song have any similarity to Kazan’s movie, “A Face in the Crowd,” of how far the mighty have fallen?

  15. Wave Your Hat July 15th, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    ” If I ever get another female puppy, Ill name her Rosamilia.”

    After a couple of days you’ll just call her Rosa. Or Rosy.

  16. Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    The Yankees develop using an hourglass. If a young player hasn’t surmounted his learning curve by the time the sand has filled the bottom of the glass, it’s time to move on. IOW, no development.

  17. Shame Spencer July 15th, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    I can’t complain, it definitely rolls off the tongue.

  18. JM July 15th, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    David Waldstein @DavidWaldstein

    All the mascots are here, including the Phillie Phanatic – man among boys. pic.twitter.com/ur0Wg5FSJ

    Must be hot (and somewhat smelly) inside those suits with the temp at about 96 degrees

  19. mick July 15th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    why is shame on the list?

  20. Wave Your Hat July 15th, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    The Yanks traded Melancon for a guy they thought would help them win the World Series in 2010. Didn’t work out, but I can’t blame them. And it certainly took Melancon some time, and several teams, to blossom.

    No moral to this particular story, IMO.

  21. blake July 15th, 2013 at 4:57 pm

    If we had never traded melanchon we would have never heard Sir Lancelot or C’est Louie…..c’est Louie!

  22. Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    “No moral to this particular story, IMO.”

    Stop trading youth for age?

  23. blake July 15th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    I never care when they trade non Rivera relievers …. Didnt care that time either

  24. Wave Your Hat July 15th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    ““No moral to this particular story, IMO.”

    Stop trading youth for age?”

    You wouldn’t have liked Melancon’s 2012 campaign.

    And don’t draw too many conclusions about Melancon anyway. This is still a case of small sample size.

  25. Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    I care. I almost always hate trading youth for age.

  26. Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    “And don’t draw too many conclusions about Melancon anyway. This is still a case of small sample size.”

    It’s not about him, it’s about a philosophy in disassembling a team.

  27. blake July 15th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    It’s not about him, it’s about a philosophy in disassembling a team.”

    True but if you’re gonna trade pieces to go for it a particular year then relievers are the best currency….keep everything else

  28. Wave Your Hat July 15th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    “It’s not about him, it’s about a philosophy in disassembling a team.”

    If Berkman had done what everyone, myself included, thought he would do, the philosophy would have been just fine. No. 28, Baby!

  29. Shame Spencer July 15th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    mick July 15th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    why is shame on the list?

    —————

    Everyone is on the list.

  30. blake July 15th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    I didnt mind trading melancon for Berkman at all….they’d haven’t missed him at all and he actually helped the Yankees indirectly by sucking so bad for Boston

  31. blake July 15th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    Actually Boston doesn’t have Jed Lowrie or Reddick right now because we made that trade

  32. Shame Spencer July 15th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    blake July 15th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    I didnt mind trading melancon for Berkman at all….they’d haven’t missed him at all and he actually helped the Yankees indirectly by sucking so bad for Boston

    —————

    I wanted them to retain Berkman. Even suggested he’d make a good pick up this last off season. But, ya know, playing time and yada yada yada.

  33. J. Alfred Prufrock July 15th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 5:00 pm

    I care. I almost always hate trading youth for age.
    ///

    In rare cases. But they were not one “Fat Elvis” away from winning the World Series, IMO. Just more incorrect self-scouting.

    See you folks later

  34. J. Alfred Prufrock July 15th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    My bad for not looking more closely at the fake Nick in SF handle.

    Later folks

  35. Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

    “True but if you’re gonna trade pieces to go for it a particular year then relievers are the best currency….keep everything else”

    True, but again, an aging team shouldn’t look to get older, yet that is what they have done for years and it has put them in this mess.

    “If Berkman had done what everyone, myself included, thought he would do, the philosophy would have been just fine. No. 28, Baby!”

    But he didn’t. Result matter.

  36. Warning Track Power July 15th, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    The Pirates can have Melancon. He did nothing to make
    anybody think he would be an all-star. Even the Red Sox lost
    faith in his arm.

    File this under could care less.

  37. Wave Your Hat July 15th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    ““If Berkman had done what everyone, myself included, thought he would do, the philosophy would have been just fine. No. 28, Baby!”

    But he didn’t. Result matter.”

    That’s hindsight. I’d do that trade again, with the same knowledge we had then. Relievers are made for trading.

  38. Against All Odds July 15th, 2013 at 5:16 pm

    JT July 15th, 2013 at 4:11 pm
    Developed by the New York Yankees organization….

    ————————

    Not really

  39. Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    “That’s hindsight. I’d do that trade again, with the same knowledge we had then. Relievers are made for trading.”

    It’s irrelevant to how I believe a team should be built.

  40. Warning Track Power July 15th, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 15th, 2013 at 5:10 pm
    ““If Berkman had done what everyone, myself included, thought he would do, the philosophy would have been just fine. No. 28, Baby!”

    But he didn’t. Result matter.”

    That’s hindsight. I’d do that trade again, with the same knowledge we had then. Relievers are made for trading.
    ———————————————————————-
    Add me to the list that would welcome that trade again.

  41. blake July 15th, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    “True, but again, an aging team shouldn’t look to get older, yet that is what they have done for years and it has put them in this mess.”

    I totally agree….my only point was that if you’re gonna make a deal and go for it for the present then trading extra relief pitching is probably the best thing to move because bullpen help is findable and that what the yanks are best at really…..

  42. blake July 15th, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    The yanks aren’t where they are because they traded away relievers.. They are because they were pit on a budget before they were ready developmentally to do so

  43. Hankflorida July 15th, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Alfred, sorry to have posted the same item on two threads. The lyrics that you quoted from “Suit of Light,” I thought pertained to the discussion about A-Rod and steroids, and as quickly as the public hoisted him up, they were quick to tear him down without recognizing the culpability of the institution that was responsible for the atmosphere that prevailed.

  44. Against All Odds July 15th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    What list did I miss something?

  45. Warning Track Power July 15th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Any update on ARod and his rehab assignment today?
    Is he scheduled to play
    Does he have the day off
    Are there any rehab games during the all-star break?

  46. Giuseppe Franco July 15th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Read through the earlier thread where some argued the Yanks need to do whatever it takes to make the playoffs in 2013 for the sake of Mo.

    I couldn’t disagree more.

    I think that philosophy is exactly what they shouldn’t do and its part of the reason why they are in this mess in the first place.

    This team is broken and needs to be fixed. It didn’t happen overnight and it won’t be fixed overnight. So they need to start fixing it ASAP – not wait until Mo [or Jeter] hangs it up before doing so.

    For the [long term] good of the organization, this team should be selling before the deadline and start acquiring as many young and cost-controlled solutions as possible. This is a rare opportunity to do just that and they should take advantage of it. Not moving some of these pieces would be a lost opportunity to start shaping this team in the right direction.

    Many Yankee fans were appalled and considered it a disgrace that the Yanks failed to make the playoffs during the final season at the old Stadium. Now, nobody cares since they christened the new building the next season by making the necessary moves to get this team back on track.

    Unfortunately, this 2013 team won’t be as easy to fix and is going to take longer if they want to do it right.

    And I’m fine with that. Mo is retiring at the end of the season with 5 rings on his mantle and I’m sure he has no regrets no matter how his career finishes.

    Another Yankee icon, Donnie Baseball, not only never got a ring during his career, but only made the postseason once and suffered through the most devastating game of his career in the infamous Game 5 in Seattle. Now that truly sucked for those like me who loved Mattingly.

    In a perfect world, this team would be set for the long term and steamroll through the AL like a locomotive enabling Mo and Jeter to add to their hardware. But that’s not going to happen and the Yanks need to start fixing it sooner rather than later.

    A year from now, Mo will be at home enjoying his retirement with his family and we Yankee fans are probably going to be watching another mediocre team and regretting the lost opportunity they have right now to sell some short term value in exchange for long term value.

    All that said, the front office is not going to follow my advice but I figured I’d add my own two cents anyways.

  47. Hans Davenport July 15th, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    bullpen help is findable and that what the yanks are best at really…..

    The Yankees are best at finding bullpen pitchers because they have so many starting pitchers that fail.

  48. Hans Davenport July 15th, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    This is still a case of small sample size.

    Not quite as small as the sample size he had with the Yankees.

  49. Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    blake July 15th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
    “True, but again, an aging team shouldn’t look to get older, yet that is what they have done for years and it has put them in this mess.”

    I totally agree….my only point was that if you’re gonna make a deal and go for it for the present then trading extra relief pitching is probably the best thing to
    move because bullpen help is findable and that what the yanks are best at really…..

    The yanks aren’t where they are because they traded away relievers.. They are because they were pit on a budget before they were ready developmentally to do so
    _

    I hear you.

    But one reason there is a poor fit between their budgetary aspirations and their development is the misguided philosophy that led the to believe that they could just burn Melancon for a a quick aging fix rather than attempt to max out his talent by continuing to develop him. It has become a pattern rather than an isolated incident.

    The other reason is that their drafting and or developing stinks.

  50. Hans Davenport July 15th, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    The yanks aren’t where they are because they traded away relievers

    No one said they were.

  51. Hans Davenport July 15th, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    a quick aging fix rather than attempt to max out his talent by continuing to develop him. It has become a pattern rather than an isolated incident.

    It would be difficult to put it better.

  52. Hans Davenport July 15th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    for the sake of Mo.

    Been getting tired of reading what they should do “for the sake of Mo.”

    Do they have a game planned where he rides in on the back of a donkey colt, and the fans get to lay palms at his feet and chant Hosanna? Just wondered.

  53. Doreen July 15th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    Giuseppe Franco -

    I sort of agree with you. :)

    They do need to look beyond this year. No quick fixes, please.

    It has been an incredible run. Most teams cannot even hope to accomplish what has been accomplished and taken for granted her the past 18 years.

    But feeding the beast only made it insatiable.

    Time to go on a diet. ;)

    For the longer term good.

    But also time for fans to take stock and appreciate what they have had the privilege to experience, and allow the franchise whatever it takes to re-whatever (since the Yankees will never admit to rebuilding).

    That said, I still hope the players give 1,000% and either get a playoff spot or at least make a really honest go of it.

  54. Hans Davenport July 15th, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    And don’t draw too many conclusions about Melancon anyway. This is still a case of small sample size.

    He had too excellent seasons with Houston. You keep leaving that out. That wasn’t a small sample size.

  55. luis July 15th, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    Good afternoon everyone,

    Rich,

    While I agree that it has become a pattern that they simply trade for the quick fix instead of maximizing the talent worth by developing them( Melancon, Ajax, IPK just to name a few ). They do draft well considering where they usually draft… The problem is on the coaching and development side of things

  56. luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Doreen,

    Good post…. As much as it pains me to see Mo go with an early exit… The team has to think in their long term interest…

  57. Warning Track Power July 15th, 2013 at 6:01 pm

    Some pitchers like IPK and Melancon are better suited for the NL &
    not the very difficult AL East. I firmly believe that.

    No chance IPK wins 20 games in the AL east.
    No chance Melancon is an all-star pitcher out of the pen in the AL east.

  58. Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    luis

    How do we know that it’s development notdrafting?

    “No chance IPK wins 20 games in the AL east.”

    Then why does Kuroda have his lowest career ERA in the AL at age 38?

  59. luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    WTP,

    With all do respect… But IPk could win 20 games with us… He has now a mid 90′s FB, an excellent CU, a good CB and superior command of the k zone…

  60. ron July 15th, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    Also,the Yankees are where they are because they are 40 million over the 189,and not only can’t they add payroll,they have to trim it.So if 100 million comes off the books,they only have 60 million to spend to stay at 189.
    They also need almost a new player at every position on the diamond,and a bunch of starting pitchers.
    I’d dump all the money into pitching with only 2 big bats.
    The orioles with an anemic offense last year,all of a sudden look great with machado,davis,and who else?
    The nationals,braves,dodgers,angels with these big supposed offenses are tanking,and the teams with only 2 big bats,but good pitching are winning.

  61. RayVT July 15th, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    I think the only moral to the Melacon story, if there is one, is as follows:

    Some teams seem to really help with making Pitchers better & some don’t.

    StL Cards are the exemplification of this & the Pirates seem to be heading this way too. (A’s too) – I’ve always wondered what do these teams do that others don’t including the Yanks.

    TB could be included, but I feel most of their success has come from having a top pick every year for so many years & then trading a prime MLB SP for more top prospects. This would be a difficult pill for the Yanks to swallow, but the next 2 seasons may push this opprotunity even more.

    It seems as if Commish Bud is squeezing the Yanks as much as the PED folks. With major changes to International Signings, Cap penalties, Additions of many weak financial ownerships & even trading some (like Marlins) & other one sided taxes has pushed the profits for some teams to the disadvantage of others.

    All this is said to support the Pitching is the key to the kingdom theory. But it isn’t the full story. The Key to the kingdom presupposes that you have a modicom of talent called hitters at least above average.

    The Yanks need hitters and that is an everyday conversation here. The Yankee pitching seems a strength, but it has so many setbacks & quite often the Pitchers truly digress after a short stay in Yankeeland. I hope that changes. I would love for Dave Duncan to be hired as a consultant to help shape his philosophy on Pitchers going forward.

  62. luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 6:03 pm
    luis

    How do we know that it’s development notdrafting?

    ============================

    Because those players we are talking about ( IPK, Ajax and Melancon ) are having success elsewhere

  63. luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    Ray,

    Pitching doesn’t hold the keys of the kingdom… Balance does… They neglected the offense for so long that now that we have a superior pitching, we don’t have the offense to prevail

  64. Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    lus

    It’s mixed. IPK’s current ERA+ is 71.

    But, those were all overslot draft picks, which tends to mitigate, at least somewhat, their draft position.

    The true test is to find talent without that advantage, and their record there is less impressive.

  65. Pat M. July 15th, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    You might to tell the whole AL East monster nonsense to the SF Giants who just swept aside the Mighty Tigers who dismantled the AL Eastern Champions , The NY Yankees…..Majot distraction this morning at my Pilates class as Ms. Estella Warren placed are yoga mat right in front of me. Quite a gifted lady I must say.

  66. mick July 15th, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    Who knew we would lose Jeter, Arod, Tex and Grandy in addition to Ibanez, Swisher, Martin and Chavez?
    If anybody did and thought they would be 7 games over at this point then that’s an opinion I would listen to.

  67. champ809 July 15th, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    again perception and reality paint 2 very different pictures.

    Melancon in 2012 for the Red Sox began the season with 4 appearences totaling 2 innings and gave up 11 earned runs for an era of 49.50…horrendous.
    He was sent down and wasn’t seen again til June. After his recall he made 37 appearences totaling 43 innings.

    In 4 of those appearances he pitched an inning or less and gave up multiple runs. bad

    In 4 other appearances he pitched between 1-2 innings and gave up 1 run. good

    In the other 29 appearences he pitched up to 2+ innings without giving up a run. excellent

  68. ron July 15th, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    Kuroda is a pitcher,hughes is not.
    Kuroda throws a sp,or a ball that sinks.
    Hughes would be real good if he threw one,or a sinker to get more groundballs.
    Hughes should be throwing a fastball,curve,changeup,splitfinger,and he’d be nasty.
    Don’t worry,as soon as we trade him,he’ll win the cy.

  69. luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    Oh by the way,

    I agree with your take about those regulations being mostly to stop the Yankees

  70. mick July 15th, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    I agree with your take about those regulations being mostly to stop the Yankees
    ==============
    Didn’t Hal push for the 189 cap?

  71. Warning Track Power July 15th, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    Luis
    IPK’s fastball averages 91 MPH
    Where do you get he now throws in the mid 90′s?

  72. luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    The true test is to find talent without that advantage, and their record there is less impressive.

    =============================

    Agreed on this…. But IPK is having a bad season, that’s all… He will bounce back and win a ton of games in his career

  73. mick July 15th, 2013 at 6:15 pm

    Agreed on this…. But IPK is having a bad season, that’s all… He will bounce back and win a ton of games in his career
    =============
    pure conjecture.

  74. Doreen July 15th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    the Pirates, as happy as I am that they are having a renaissance, have been crappy for YEARS.

    Let’s not go overboard praising the way they do things in Pittsburgh.

  75. austinmac July 15th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    Giuseppe,

    I agree with you. Well said.

  76. RayVT July 15th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    I agree it is a balance thing. But where the Yanks normally draft, trying to secure a difficult market spot SP & Catchers is a good philosophy. What happened was the Yanks stopped being a FA player which made the SP/C draft alliance work. Also, the Yanks stopped using their strength (FA $ at home & internationally) & they are being overtaken quickly. What makes it worse is these choices were made by the Yanks accross the board instead of the FA or need for a player.

  77. mick July 15th, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    Let’s not go overboard praising the way they do things in Pittsburgh.
    =====================
    doreen,
    does it seem at times that Hal is using these small market teams as his role model?

  78. luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    WTP,

    The game I saw him pitch ( earlier on the season ) he was hitting 94 with ease… It may not be a general ocurrence… Still, Whitey Ford wasn’t a hard thrower either and wasthe anchor of our rotation for many years. Note: i never saw him pitch, this is basically what I have heard others that have, including one of my older brothers.

  79. Doreen July 15th, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    the AL East is a different sort of animal. I think it’s because they always have to contend with the NY Yankees. The Yankees make everyone in that division work hard to be better.

    The Yankees have another level of pressure that no other team experiences.

    Some players thrive here; some survive (and that’s a good thing); and others need to go elsewhere…

  80. Doreen July 15th, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    I think Hal just doesn’t want to pay an exorbitant tax. Period.

  81. Rich in NJ July 15th, 2013 at 6:19 pm

    luis

    I’m not saying he won’t, only that the case isn’t conclusive that they can draft well, at least without the overslot advantage.

    Later.

  82. luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Mick,

    Of course is conjecture ( or an opinion ) But I do think he is going to bounce back. About your previous post, sure the CAP has a lot to do with it. But IMO going to a 300 mil payroll would be suicidal with the current economy as well… They had an opportunity to develop and compete at the same time, that window is now gone

  83. RayVT July 15th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Doreen July 15th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    LOL! I understand about the Pirates. What I was trying to say was some teams get more from a player (Pitchers in this case) than others & thet the Pirates are headed in that direction now. Is it coaching? Scouting of other teams? Calling of pitches? Tipping or not tipping pitches? I am curious of why a guy like Melancon has success with Houston & Pitt yet flopped with RSox & somewhat with the Yanks too.

  84. RayVT July 15th, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    Some things always seem strange. Berating of a player by a team in the news. Like stating a player is going to be traded. Staing that a self-imposed salary cap will be in play for next year.

  85. luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    RayVT July 15th, 2013 at 6:16 pm
    luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    I agree it is a balance thing. But where the Yanks normally draft, trying to secure a difficult market spot SP & Catchers is a good philosophy. What happened was the Yanks stopped being a FA player which made the SP/C draft alliance work. Also, the Yanks stopped using their strength (FA $ at home & internationally) & they are being overtaken quickly. What makes it worse is these choices were made by the Yanks accross the board instead of the FA or need for a player.

    ========================

    This is true… But they could have adapted… they chose the money saving route, which in the end is going to cost them even more money as a result ( loss revenue and market cap value )

  86. RayVT July 15th, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    I don’t think that model is gone. (See LAD) What I do think the Yanks are struggling with is who they want to be. There appears to be no true plan except $189M & bottom feed. To me that is a typical example of a Management Philosophy of burning assets to capitalize on short-term profits with a to H_ll with any supporters or success.

  87. RayVT July 15th, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    Virginia Woolf July 15th, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    Dare I ask what are you talking about? (Pun intended!)

  88. Doreen July 15th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    Ray VT -

    Could just be timing with Melancon. Maybe something just finally clicked for him, and it happened to be with the Pirates.

    You can’t fail in NY. You rarely get a second chance. Maybe that’s not fair, and maybe it’s not the best way for things to be, but right now (or when Melancon came up), that’s how it was. (is?)

    I do think the Pirates, over the last 2 to 3 to 4 years, have taken a look at why they were failing so miserably and have worked hard to fix their approach overall. I mean, they had the same advantage pick-wise as Tampa Bay and did nothing with it for years.

  89. luis July 15th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    Got to go,

    Ray,

    I think you are spot on… Although I would like them to go back to Michaels model ( homegrown core complimented by trades or FA’s)

    This new poster seems to be our own resident nutcase

    Later

  90. Doreen July 15th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    RayVT -

    I do agree some teams get more from their pitchers than others on a more consistent basis.

  91. comnsnse July 15th, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    Rich, 3 good answers to three questions, the marking period is coming to a close your GPA will reflect it! ;)

    Luis, one game single sample of Kennedy. Warren has touched 94 a few times and has been 92-3 regularly with movement.

    Imo, both Nova and Warren have stuff equal to Kennedy in a tougher league courtesy of the DH and A.L east teams 18 x’s per season.

    Warren is actually “headier” than Nova but Nova’s stuff is slightly higher.

    These two should be held and developed even at the MLB level.

  92. Warning Track Power July 15th, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    Comnsnse-
    I agree, Warren and Nova are keepers. Nova has slightly better stuff, but Warren
    is not far behind.
    Last week Warren threw a 3-2 CU that was just nasty. Made me feel good Warren
    had the courage to throw that pitch. Most young pitcher would have wanted the catcher
    to put down 1 finger and never think about a secondary pitch.
    IMO, hurlers that throw a CU should have the courage to throw that pitch anytime.
    Even with 3 balls.

  93. Hankflorida July 15th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Franco, you have insight, but some of the fans hold out hope for getting the 2nd Wild Card, and if the Yankees can make a deal in the next week dangling some farm players, Hughes and Chamberlin for some power players who can fit into an overall plan for the future, then it pays for the Yankees to make this run for the playoffs. If, on the other hand, they have to wait till the trading deadline to make a deal after a disastrous run against the Redsox, Rangers and Rays and find themselves six or seven games behind in the Wild Card, the logical step would be to lay out a plan for the future which would include free agents and write off this year. The only problem with planning for the future is the elephant in the room which is Hal’s cap.

  94. ron July 15th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Don’t let the 189 fool you.The Yankees will be getting enough money for their entire payroll in the future.
    The dodgers get,or will be getting 300 million a year from their tv deal,and the Yankees deal is as good,or better,or at least almost as good.
    Once the Yankees reset their lt rate to 17%,then clear payroll,wich they are working very hard at,they will have a gazillion dollars to spend,and they will still be able to outspend almost every team.

  95. comnsnse July 15th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    Yankee staff two FA’s and Andy 90′s core group, Hughes draft.

    Not long agao it was stated by Cashman that the organizational philosophy was to draft and develop pitching and acquire position players fro trades or FA’s.

    That’s exactly what they’ve done, the problem is the FA position players aged or have been injured.

    The pitching approach is working as witness some of the newbies and the current prospects who have the highest ceilings.

    The problem with fans fueled by the 24/7 media in NY is they expect it to happen quickly, it hasn’t , they’ve made some mistakes but.

    Were everyone healthy in the field and were they getting from Andy and CC what they thought.

    We would be fighting for a legit playoff spot. Patience, let’s see what they do second half and more importantly off season.

    No sound business plan seeks to bury a 3-5 billion dolllar business!

    Channel Gloria Gaynor and sing out, “I will Survive”!

  96. mick July 15th, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    Hal must feel that as long as he has pitching he can field a competitive team.
    He might feel that his father didn’t know how to build a farm system and that he is doing so now and holding on to them.
    The pitching looks like it will pan out for quite a while and he can somehow get the hitting he needs.
    Can’t kill the guy yet as he might actually recognize that this is an old team and it is time to rebuild.

  97. chicken_stanley July 15th, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    Questions for the blog (many of you follow the minors much more closely than I do): 1. How many position players do we have on the farm with a realistic chance of making an impact at the big league level next year? 2. Which players (if any) on the farm are legitimate blue chip can’t miss prospects?

  98. mick July 15th, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    if the answer to both was 0 what would you do?

  99. chicken_stanley July 15th, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    mick says:July 15, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    If the answer to both was 0 what would you do?

    —-

    Tough one. I think the first order of business would be to explore trades for non essential pieces (Hughes and Joba come to mind first but don’t know what the return would be). The next steps depend on so many variables there is, in my mind, no clear cut path forward

  100. chicken_stanley July 15th, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    To expound on my previous answer- my first objective in a trade would be a young talented player that would remain under team control for more than a year (example – Trumbo. Yep I said the name again. Young (26?), Able to help now, and under control till end of 2016). If that type deal does not seem possibleI think you expand your list of non essential pieces.

  101. comnsnse July 15th, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    Fred, simply check the Yankee net site and view the top 20 prospects.

    I believe in Baseball America we had 3-4 of the top 100.

    While most are not having breakout years ,some are progressing nicely, i.e. Sanchez, Murphy, Almonte at the ML level.

    There are others but unfortunately most are having less than spectacular years like Williams, Austin,Heathcott etc.

  102. mick July 15th, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Tough one. I think the first order of business would be to explore trades for non essential pieces (Hughes and Joba come to mind first but don’t know what the return would be). The next steps depend on so many variables there is, in my mind, no clear cut path forward
    ==============
    Wrong answer. I asked what would YOU do meaning complain incessantly so that you distract all of LoHud, become a Met fan where prospects abound, jump off the nearest building?
    Yaknow stuff like that…

  103. comnsnse July 15th, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    The Yanks are not obtaining higher ceiling MLB players unless someone is desperate and rates Hughes and Joba higher the the fans on this blog!

    And to repeat, I would be careful trading pitching when you consider.

    Is CC in decline?

    Will Kuroda retire.

    Andy will retire.

    Hughes trade?

    Nova, Phelps and Warren incomplete body of work.

    Pineda ?

    ???

    No can’t miss prospect in system ready at this time!

  104. chicken_stanley July 15th, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Comnsnse – the reason I asked was to try and wrap my mind around where we are (yeah, I know I said “we” – although not a member of the organizaton I do feel vested). I may be naive, but I think we can remain competitive while positioning for the future

  105. mick July 15th, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    I may be naive, but I think we can remain competitive while positioning for the future
    ===============
    Sure, we could see a repeat of this year, next year.
    The dumpster is always open…

  106. comnsnse July 15th, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    Mick, come on bro how can someone who runs to airport TV’s to catch a peek of games with a screen name “Chicken Stanley” be a complainer?

    Everyone needs to vent occasionally,be kind.

  107. chicken_stanley July 15th, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    Wrong answer. I asked what would YOU do meaning complain incessantly so that you distract all of LoHud, become a Met fan where prospects abound, jump off the nearest building?Yaknow stuff like that

    —–

    Continue to pull for the Yanks, what else? Ive already lived thru many decusions that I thought were crazy… doesn’t impact my ability to live an otherwise happy life. No buildings for me :)

  108. comnsnse July 15th, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    Fred, you are a humble and sincere guy.

    You may say we because you really are invested if you take the time to exchange views with other fans ,especially with all the experts we have here! ;)

  109. chicken_stanley July 15th, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    Sure, we could see a repeat of this year, next year.The dumpster is always open…

    —-

    So what’s your take, then? Total dismantling?

  110. comnsnse July 15th, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    Mick, it looks like it’s “we three”so don’t discourage Fred.

    Otherwise it’s just you and me and our comedy routines! ;)

  111. mick July 15th, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    Have you lived as a child thinking the Yanks could never lose then go 12 years to get crushed by a Big Red Machine, only to win the next 2 WS then go 3 years in a strike season and lose to the Dodgers then go 14 more in another strike shortened season when you were ready to win another then wait another year to win 4 of 5 then you know what happens…

  112. comnsnse July 15th, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    No other posters since 6:44 but our “threesome”, seems like a hint to return to my book!

  113. comnsnse July 15th, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    You talkin to me?

  114. chicken_stanley July 15th, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    Comnsnse – Mick’s fine. I enjoy following his posts.

    Mick – I got on the train at the “crushed by the big red machine”, although my fandom was cemented the following year. So, I have been through feast and famine (not to your extent).

  115. chicken_stanley July 15th, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    Mick – I belive comnsnse may be right… things seemed to high petered out on the blog…. maybe I need to find a book also (no “high brow” reading for me… I wonder if Lee Child has a new Reacher book out). Talk to you later.

  116. chicken_stanley July 15th, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    ** have petered out****

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