The LoHud Yankees Blog

A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


What were you expecting?

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Jul 18, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

With a lot of the aging players on the Yankees roster, career numbers don’t mean much. Their best days are long gone, and it’s hard to expect the the same level of production that they had five or six years ago. But the past two years seems like a reasonable gauge of whether a player is underperforming or overperforming this season.

Here are nine Yankees regulars along with their slash line for this season, and their slash line for the past two seasons.

Brett GardnerBrett Gardner
Past two seasons: .267/.364/.374
This season: .272/.338/.422
A more aggressive approach at the plate has led to more power but fewer walks. He’s also striking out more, but his OPS and OPS+ are each up this season. By the way, it didn’t make much sense to consider Gardner’s 16 games last season so his “past two seasons” are 2011 and 2010, the last two seasons when he actually played more than a few weeks.

Ichiro Suzuki
Past two seasons: .277/.308/.361
This season: .283/.320/.393
Not a ton of difference here. This seems to be the kind of player Ichiro has become near the end of his career. This year’s slash line is actually very similar to his overall slash line for last season, combining is bad start with his strong finish.

Robinson Cano
Past two seasons: .307/.364/.542
This season: .302/.386/.531
Clearly being pitched around a lot more often now that middle of the order is overwhelmingly thin. Might be surprising, though, that Cano’s overall production has been basically right on course with his MVP-caliber seasons. He’s actually on pace for the second-highest OPS of his career.

Travis HafnerTravis Hafner
Past two seasons: .259/.355/.445
This season: .218/.314/.407
It’s the lack of power that’s made Hafner’s season such a letdown. Staying healthy seemed to be the biggest concern with a Hafner signing, but aside from some shoulder soreness, he’s managed to stay in the lineup. He just hasn’t done much since April.

Vernon Wells
Past two seasons: .222/.258/.409
This season: .238/.276/.371
Obviously the power is down, though that might be a product of him playing everyday, something he didn’t do with the Angels. The batting average and one-base percentage, though, are actually a little better. The key might be maintaining some production against lefties.

Lyle Overbay
Past two seasons: .239/.315/.369
This season: .252/.308/.437
The power is the biggest difference. Overbay has hit more than 16 home runs only twice in his career, but he has 11 already. The splits are extreme, and finding a right-handed platoon partner would clearly maximize Overbay’s impact. Overall, though, Overbay has overperformed any reasonable expectation. By quite a bit. 

Jayson Nix, Rob ThomsonJayson Nix
Past two seasons: .211/.279/.351
This season: .236/.303/.304
Did you know Nix has reached double digit home runs in two different seasons? It’s true. But that power hasn’t been there this season. His average and on-base percentage are almost identical to last season, but the power is down. Most of his offensive value has come from his .374 on-base percentage against lefties. He’s actually been a pretty solid platoon table-setter.

Eduardo Nunez
Past two seasons: .271/.317/.387
This season: .215/.285/.271
Nunez’s reputation as an offensive player comes largely from the fact that he’s supposed to be a good hitter for a shortstop. That slash line the past two years isn’t horrible for a backup middle infielder forced into regular playing time because of injury, but this season has been an overwhelming disappointment at the plate. 

Chris Stewart
Past two seasons: .221/.287/.314
This season: .241/.316/.306
Stewart has the same number of walks as Ichiro, and he’s done it in nearly 150 fewer plate appearances. He actually has the fourth-highest on-base percentage of the Yankees regulars. He’s basically hit like you’d expect a light-hitting catcher to hit. 

Associated Press photos

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342 Responses to “What were you expecting?”

  1. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    “he power is the biggest difference. Overbay has hit more than 16 home runs only twice in his career, but he has 11 already. ”

    Thank you YS.

  2. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Manning-

    I left you a response in the previous thread.

    Please check it out.

  3. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    I have been happier with Nix’ defensive play at SS than I expected. Much happier (this is all relative now) with Stewie’s hitting than I thought I would be. I have a difficult time with Ichiro – if only he could catch or play short.

  4. Shame Spencer July 18th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    blake July 18th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    @HardballTalk: Michael Weiner: the union will try to persuade clearly guilty Biogenesis players to take a plea http://t.co/BaVjs1f9bo #mlb #hbt

    Well that’s interesting

    —————–

    Ooooo I wonder what constitutes clearly guilty….

  5. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    I have a difficult time with Ichiro – if only he could catch or play short.

    I bet Ichiro would be an amazing catcher. Strong arm, extremely agile ..

  6. Out Pitch July 18th, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Funny how Ichiro shows about the same improvement as Gardner, but is interpreted differently.

  7. tomingeorgia July 18th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    blake and Manning,
    All this BBQ talk is making me drool. The great thing about BBQ is that there are 100?s of ways to do it. It’s an individual thing. For instance, I keep the temp lower than you guys, between 180 and 190, and smoke longer and slower, what ever I’m cooking. I like apple or pear wood, but I have a big old hickory tree that drops a limb every once in a while That works for me, too. It looks like some St. Louis ribs this weekend, because of all the talk!

  8. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    “Funny how Ichiro shows about the same improvement as Gardner, but is interpreted differently.”

    Not so funny at all – Gardner costs a whole lot less.

  9. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    Mister Tom-

    I drool because of my age.

    :)

  10. Shame Spencer July 18th, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    austinmac July 18th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    I think that Shame has the word butt programmed so if it is ever used on the blog she is made aware. Shame, that was a hunk of meat. No, not that type.

    —————–

    :lol:

  11. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    First collision at home plate and Ichiro splits in half like a chopstick.

  12. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    First collision at home plate and Ichiro splits in half like a chopstick.

    That’s a bit racist…

    There wouldn’t be a collision, he would just do a ninja flip over the runner, tagging him mid-flip.

  13. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    It’s not racist at all.

    It’s physics.

    ;)

  14. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    MTU .. it was a joke. Notice how right after accusing you of racism I too assigned a japanese stereotype to Ichiro. Maybe a little too subtle ..

  15. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Smith-

    Please use a smiley next time.

    I can be kinda dense.

    Easy for things to get misinterpreted over the Internet.

    ;)

  16. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    It’s a fine line when you use obvious cultural/ethnic associations in a simile. But it didn’t seem racist when I first read it. Let’s all give MTU a pass…

  17. Out Pitch July 18th, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    “Funny how Ichiro shows about the same improvement as Gardner, but is interpreted differently.”

    Not so funny at all – Gardner costs a whole lot less. -Wave Your Hat
    ———-
    Cost of these players is not a metric in this analysis, but would be to ownership.

    Chad has offered slash line comparisons of this year compared to recent years and I notice that his interpretation of Gardner is much more positive than that of Ichiro, despite Ichiro having made slightly more improvement.

  18. joeman July 18th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    was totally against bringing Jeter back before AS game….this FO has no glue

  19. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Smith-

    Please use a smiley next time.

    I can be kinda dense.

    Easy for things to get misinterpreted over the Internet.

    ;)

    Sorry, I have a dry sense of humor, doesn’t always translate well.

    Seriously though, aside from the collisions just think about Ichiro behind the plate. He’s always jumping around and stretching out in the OF he would be so much fun to watch as a catcher. I know it will NEVER EVER EVER in a million years happen but it would be fun. He’s the kind of guy you can sort of imagine playing any position, he’s just so athletic and coordinated.

  20. arsenelupin3 July 18th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Can someone explain to me where this whole “nunez has offensive value” thing comes from?

    No matter how many times I look through his MLB/MiLB page on B-R, I cannot find a valid justification for such a claim

  21. joeman July 18th, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    this team right now would be the same with or without Gardner

  22. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Out Pitch-

    Cost is part of the metric because of ownership insisting on this austerity thing. I’m now always thinking, what else could the Yanks have had for the money? Sad, I know.

    Also, Gardner’s been a bit better than Ichiro, though I admit not lately. Plus Gardner gets a plus or two for age, and he is a better defender in a more fifficult position.

  23. 86w183 July 18th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Political correctness is not correct at all

    I think I read that in a fortune cookie

  24. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Can someone explain to me where this whole “nunez has offensive value” thing comes from?

    No matter how many times I look through his MLB/MiLB page on B-R, I cannot find a valid justification for such a claim

    I think it’s more just watching him you could sort of see how he might be a valuable offensive player. Lots of speed, has some pop. There’s also his position to consider, getting anything out of SS nowadays is tough.

    But I do agree, if you go by numbers alone he is nothing special. I’ve said all along I don’t see him as more than a bench player.

  25. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Odds on Jeter playing Friday, then going on the DL Saturday?

  26. austinmac July 18th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Joe, nor do they have a clue. :)

    All in all these guys are doing about what could be expected. I will point out Gardner’s OPS is about 60 points higher than Ichiro and plays CF. Ichiro’s .713 OPS is fine for a SS, but sub-par for a corner outfielder. Ichiro is not the problem but nor is he a solution.

  27. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    smith-

    Actually, I would never want to Ichiro in that role.

    I don’t care how athletic the guy is. I would not want to see him get hurt.

    Imagine a really big player like a Gomes type barreling full force into Ichiro trying to block the plate.

    Somehow I don’t think the outcome would be very good for Ichiro.

  28. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Odds on Jeter playing Friday, then going on the DL Saturday?

    I would bet zero because I don’t think Jeter will be back for another few weeks. Quad strain = quad tear .. there is no way it’s healed yet

  29. joeman July 18th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 12:35 pm
    Odds on Jeter playing Friday, then going on the DL Saturday?

    —————————————–
    like the odds of him going on the DL before Friday

  30. DONNYBROOK July 18th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Using smileys and “haha” is Grade School Banter. You either get your point across you don’t. Smileys should disappear after Grade 2.

  31. jacksquat July 18th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Is Weiner working for the players or Selig?

    So “clearly guilty” means some drug dealing criminal says you did it?

  32. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    Using smileys and “haha” is Grade School Banter. You either get your point across you don’t. Smileys should disappear after Grade 2.

    Lol whatever dude haha :) :) :)

  33. DONNYBROOK July 18th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Nunez currently is getting over being jumpy at inside pitches. He has Not been the same stick since he was hit in the ribs, and then on the wrist.

  34. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    With the schedule we have coming up w/o Jeter and a-Rod I think we are pretty well sunk.

    3 @ Boston
    4 @ Rangers
    3 vs Rays
    2 @ Dodgers.

    Unles our pitchers go on another incredible streak (unlikely) I can’t see that turning out well.

    We need O badly. Especially against those squads.

  35. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    Time to tend to the Mop.

    later.

  36. Hankflorida July 18th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    comnsnse July 18th, 2013 at 10:30 am
    Hank, you’re correct about the post Gehrig years but Buddy Hasset had a decent year and Nick Etten was serviceable and I believe actually won the HR crown with 22 in 44.

    What you’re over looking however is the cast of great players the Yanks had from 39-44 led by the Jolter, Gordon tc.. Gordon would have been in the HOF much sooner if not for the war years.

    You are right about Etten, and I did not factor him in because of the war years. As for Gordon, he did not fit the mold of a second basemen as he was a home run guy, and the Yankees never had a power hitter at second like him until Cano. Gordon to the Indians for Allie Reynolds was a great trade as we never had such a domineering pitcher as “The Chief.” What was interesting about the Yankees is that the emphasis was never on those power type of throwers until Reynolds but always on building a good offensive with finesse pitchers. The best pitching staff in my lifetime was Feller, Garcia, Lemon and Wynn, and they always played second fiddle to the offensive minded Yankees. Take note, Hal!

  37. blake July 18th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    Get off Donny’s lawn

  38. blake July 18th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    @BenBadler: Dodgers sign 16-year-old Venezuelan shortstop for $250,000 http://t.co/sCmwF2xG0C

  39. G. Love July 18th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    I thought before the season began I thought we’d likely be .500 at the break and then hopefully go on a 2nd half run.

    The fact that we’re 7 games above .500 with a few rare Mo blown saves mixed in with this group tells has me far more optimistic going into what’s left of the season.

    Still, we need bats. Healthy productive major league bats.

    Part of me reads the tea leaves in the media and thinks Cashman is setting up his built in excuses for why can’t make a trade to help the team and part of me thinks the front office and owners realize if they add to this group they can see the post season.

    If Arod can come back and hit, it’s an improvement over what we currently have. Even just replacing Hafner’s at bats with Arod can be a + as Hafner is close to the worst DH I’ve ever seen in pinstripes in awhile. Nice guy? Yeah. But he’s been abysmal with the bat.

    I’d add to this team since you don’t know how long you can go without sniffing the post season again but I think the front office may have different ideas and want to start breaking their fans into thinking the post season isn’t a birthright.

    I just don’t know why a team with the most money would feel the need to do that in a sport with no real salary cap.

  40. blake July 18th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    Cashman will claim that nobody will trade with him and that the prices are too high like always…..

  41. austinmac July 18th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    Speaking of high prices, can’t we ever sign a good Cuban player? I think we have seen they have some players with remarkable physical abilities. Players from the US with that athleticism play football.

    Instead we sign Adonis at 5’7″.

    Again, those darn high prices. I wish we were a franchise that had a lot of income. Oh wait. We are.

  42. Frankg July 18th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Gardner is a lead off hitter. He’s supposed to get on base a lot and steal bases with efficiency, neither of which he does well. He should hit low in the lineup. He has minimal impact. Not sure why people try to spin his profile into something more valuable.

  43. DONNYBROOK July 18th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Should have been a lot more Yankee fuss concerning A-Rod going AWOL at that Bush League game last Fri night. My guess is the Yanks know the case against A-Rod is iron clad, and are merely waiting on the quickly running sands to empty into the bottom of the glass. A-Rod musta wet his pants after talking with MLB Fri night.

  44. Frankg July 18th, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    I guess we’re supposed to bad mouth Nunez, since he’s not hitting well this year. He’s been hurt a lot—hit by pitches, etc. Let’s give the guy a chance.

    Let’s not forget he was the only bright spot hitting-wise in the playoffs last year.

  45. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    Gardner has the second highest OBP on the team. It isn’t a particularly good OBP, but it is the second highest. The Yanks need someone on base when Cano comes up, as that is the primary chance they have at scoring a run. So Gardner should bat in front of Cano. It isn’t rocket science.

  46. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    I think that no matter what, we are going to see Cano start to get the Bond’s treatment soon.

    No matter if he deserves it or not – he doesn’t – why would you pitch to Cano at all anymore? If I’m the Boston pitchers i put him on every time.
    Even if someone moves him over, the chances that someone moves him twice are much less than him just launching one himself.

  47. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    Gardner has the second highest OBP on the team

    LOL.

  48. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    MTU –

    Saw this post. Yes, I was up North. Those mule deer tags down south are coveted…

  49. Warning Track Power July 18th, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    Chad-You are on a roll during this all-star break. Post after post is keeping my interest level at an all time high.
    I appreciate the hard work.

  50. bruceb July 18th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    The frightening thing about this post is that many of our players are actually exceeding the back of their baseball cards (recent years, at least) yet the offense is still among the worst three in the American League.

  51. Warning Track Power July 18th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    DONNYBROOK July 18th, 2013 at 1:12 pm
    Should have been a lot more Yankee fuss concerning A-Rod going AWOL at that Bush League game last Fri night. My guess is the Yanks know the case against A-Rod is iron clad, and are merely waiting on the quickly running sands to empty into the bottom of the glass. A-Rod musta wet his pants after talking with MLB Fri night.
    ———————————————————————————–
    You do have a point there.
    I have yet to read why ARod was AWOL for that game. He admitted not showing up but never gave a reason.

    Not sure why ARod would “wet his pants” after meeting with MLB fri night. Based on what has been said, any suspensions would be enforced in 2014.
    GAME ON!!!

  52. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    If Garza goes to Boston, Theo better get one of those prospect in return, or baseball will be on it’s ear from a sweetheart deal to his buddy Ben.

  53. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    “The frightening thing about this post is that many of our players are actually exceeding the back of their baseball cards (recent years, at least) yet the offense is still among the worst three in the American League.”

    This is why the “buy” strategy is so risky. There’s likely to be a strong undertow in the second half. They’d really need Jeter, ARod and Granderson to come back strong, not just come back.

  54. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    Especially if there is a negotiating window – the return pieces better not be on the back half of their return pieces. I know they have 4 untouchables, but he better get one of them if they’re allowed to negotiate a deal.

  55. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    “I have yet to read why ARod was AWOL for that game. He admitted not showing up but never gave a reason. ”

    The game was a rain out.

  56. Tackelberry July 18th, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    blake July 18th, 2013 at 1:04 pm
    Cashman will claim that nobody will trade with him and that the prices are too high like always…..

    ___________________________________

    Well, like it or not, there is some truth to the theory that teams always will demand more from the Yankees than other teams because of who they are.

  57. RayVT July 18th, 2013 at 1:36 pm

    DONNYBROOK July 18th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Perhaps he knew that the weather was going to be bad & therefore decided he didn’t need the hassle that day after hours of discussions including over 2 Hrs w/ MLBPA.

  58. Warning Track Power July 18th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 1:35 pm
    “I have yet to read why ARod was AWOL for that game. He admitted not showing up but never gave a reason. ”

    The game was a rain out.
    —————————————————————————————–
    Sounds like a non-story to me. No wonder there has been no backlash.
    Someone should report how many players from the team actually showed up to the park, desite the rainy weather. Perhaps ARod was not the only member of the team that did not show up.

  59. jacksquat July 18th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    blake July 18th, 2013 at 1:04 pm
    Cashman will claim that nobody will trade with him and that the prices are too high like always…..

    If the proposals from other teams are like “Michael Young for Jose Ramirez”, then yes, the prices are too high.

  60. Howler July 18th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    Ichiro as catcher…somehow vision of him trapped in the netting behind homeplate like a fly caught in a spider’s web after a particularly hard collision comes to mind.
    I don’t particularly like Gardner’s new aggressive approach, doesn’t see as many pitches, strikes out more, nominal power increase. Leadoff batter is supposed to see more pitches, not less.

  61. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    I don’t particularly like Gardner’s new aggressive approach, doesn’t see as many pitches, strikes out more, nominal power increase. Leadoff batter is supposed to see more pitches, not less.

    And steal some bases. At this point, he is what he is.

  62. tomingeorgia July 18th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    I surely could use a ball game to watch, too long without.

  63. champ809 July 18th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    Can someone explain to me where this whole “nunez has offensive value” thing comes from?

    No matter how many times I look through his MLB/MiLB page on B-R, I cannot find a valid justification for such a claim

    ———————————————————————————————————–

    In ’09 as 22 yr old in AA he led the eastern league in hits and won the eastern league player of the year with a .322/.349/.433 slash line a 26 2Bs, 1 3B, 9 HRs, 19 steals in 497 ABs

  64. Warning Track Power July 18th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    Manning
    I have noticed that Gardner has been hitting a lot more fly balls of late.
    Not sure what the trend is, what the stats are, but my 2 eyes have noticed that a lot more
    of late.
    He needs to hit the ball on the ground more and give his legs a chance to get a hit.

  65. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    Gardner has the second highest OBP on the team

    LOL.

    Sad :(

    But that’s what happens when Jeter, A-rod, Youkilis, Teixeira get hurt – all guys that should be .350 OBP or better

  66. Hankflorida July 18th, 2013 at 1:47 pm

    I think that no matter what, we are going to see Cano start to get the Bond’s treatment soon.

    Manning, it has started to happen as Cano has been swinging at some balls out of the strike zone. Other then Cano, when these players get their pitch to hit, they foul it off, and as you noted, they do not move the line.

  67. Warning Track Power July 18th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    tomingeorgia July 18th, 2013 at 1:45 pm
    I surely could use a ball game to watch, too long without.
    ————————————————————————–
    I don’t mind the break once bit. Especially since Jeter is trying to recover
    from that quad injury.
    Believe me, tomorrow vs Boston will make you forget all about this extended break.

  68. Shame Spencer July 18th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    I don’t even care if we sign a good Cuban player at this point, I’m just starting to feel left out! Can we at least purchase a box of Cuban cigars or something, Cash???

  69. Jesus Bustero July 18th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    The New York Yankees continue to search for hitting, but what they’re offering doesn’t appear to be enough for suitors. The package consists of Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain and a 22-year-old prospect, catcher J.R. Murphy. That package is easily summarized as inconsistent, inconsistent and doubt.

    According to ESPN’s Jim Bowden, the Yankees tried offering these three pieces to the Minnesota Twins for Justin Morneau, but they quickly shut that deal down.

  70. Howler July 18th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    It is kind of annoying to see in so many games in the sixth or seventh inning that the pitch count against the opposing team is in the mid-seventies. Happens too much lately.
    I am expecting Nunez to pick it up in the second half, if he does, might be curious to see what he’d do at lead-off…if he does get a chance to play.
    I still wish it was Torii Hunter out there instead of Ichiro…but I never liked him to begin with, always saw him as a prima donna.

  71. blake July 18th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    “If the proposals from other teams are like “Michael Young for Jose Ramirez”, then yes, the prices are too high.”

    I haven’t read anything about this being an actual thing….,Chad answered a question about a Joba for Young trade in the chat and said he thought they’d have to throw in a Jose Ramierez or something he thought…..I don’t think there is any way the Yanks woukd do that not should they

  72. Jerkface July 18th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Morneau is a free agent and only hitting .273 .331 .406 .737 , why would the Twins turn that down? Do they think they are going to get more than 1 good prospect for him?

  73. blake July 18th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    Although the Twins have no use for Hughes or Joba……I doubt they are able to get a much higher quality prospect for Morneau than JR…..of course Id also guess they’d be looking for pitching for him because they need that most……

  74. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    According to ESPN’s Jim Bowden, the Yankees tried offering these three pieces to the Minnesota Twins for Justin Morneau, but they quickly shut that deal down.

    I mean, you can understand that..

    Montero ( is that dirty word??) was the most highly touted prospect we have had in quite some time, and he has basically fallen off a table and is on the Bio list, so why buy into NY hype with another prospect a year later with less of track record?

    Hughes can be had for nothing in three months?

    Lets just be honest with Joba. Same as Hughes with even less talent or value.

    Too many other teams can give up pieces that are just as good..

    Just playing devils advocate here.

  75. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    I wouldn’t give the Twinkies Hughes, Joba, and Murphy for Mourneau.

    Glad they rejected it. I think we can do a lot better for that package.

    Mourneau is not what he used to be.

  76. 86w183 July 18th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    JB —

    I just re-read the Bowden article and it does not state the Yanks made that offer to the Twins. It says the Yanks are seeking a bat and offering those guys AND it says it’s hard to see that group appealing to Minnesota. You linked the two, he didn’t.

    If Hughes moves it will be part of sell off or for a RH bat. why would the Yanks part with resources for another LH bat?

  77. blake July 18th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    If I were the Twins Id shoot for an upside pitching prospect maybe from the lower levels for Morneau…..

  78. Jerkface July 18th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Also that package sucks anyways. 2 free agents to be + 1 prospect?

  79. Jesus Bustero July 18th, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    If 1/2 year of Morneau is worth more than Hughes + Joba + Murphy than my proposal last night of Hughes + Joba + Murphy for McCann is laughable. Rich in NJ said it would be stupid… yeah right, maybe for the Braves.

    I highly doubt the Braves would deal even a 1/2 season of McCann in the first place. And judging by the Twins evaluation of Hughes, Joba and Murphy I suspect that offer is nowhere close.

    To in a conversation for McCann it would probably be Nova instead of Hughes, Betances instead of Joba and Sanchez instead of Murphy.

  80. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Morneau is a free agent and only hitting .273 .331 .406 .737 , why would the Twins turn that down? Do they think they are going to get more than 1 good prospect for him?

    True .. it’s at least 1-2 draft picks plus Murphy right?

  81. blake July 18th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    Hughes for mike Olt ….makes sense for both teams. Risk on both sides….

  82. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    I offer Hughes w a negotiating window only.

    That greatly increases his trade value.

    That’s why it makes more sense to send him out West where he is more likely to sign an extension.

  83. Howler July 18th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    I think the problem with the Twins is they’re dealing from Morneau’s history and not the facts of him as a player now as well as being able to justify what they get to their fans. Maybe we could throw in Hafner and a bucket of oats :)

  84. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    The story should be, why are the Yankees trying to get Morneau? He’s not that good

  85. blake July 18th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    I don’t think McCann is getting traded…..I just hope the yanks sign him this winter

  86. Jesus Bustero July 18th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    And if you offered Nova + Sanchez + Betances then maybe the Braves listen on McCann.

  87. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    If I were the Twins Id shoot for an upside pitching prospect maybe from the lower levels for Morneau…..

    Exactly. They do have this guy who might catch for the next few years.

  88. blake July 18th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    “MTU says:
    July 18, 2013 at 1:58 pm
    I offer Hughes w a negotiating window only.

    That greatly increases his trade value.

    That’s why it makes more sense to send him out West where he is more likely to sign an extension.”

    I don’t know that it greatly increases his value…..it might a little but the problem is that you can’t make Hughes sign…..

  89. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    We do not need another left-handing hitting 1st baseman. We already have one.

  90. blake July 18th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    “Exactly. They do have this guy who might catch for the next few years.”

    I wish we could trade for that guy

  91. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    And if you offered Nova + Sanchez + Betances then maybe the Braves listen on McCann.

    The Braves have four guys in their top ten as good or better than Betances and Sanchez right now.

    If you’re gonna offer up something for McCann, it needs to be a top infield prospect, which the Yankees do not have right now that can contribute now.

  92. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    I wish we could trade for that guy

    If we did, we’d have nothing left of out top ten..

  93. blake July 18th, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    Jesus Bustero says:
    July 18, 2013 at 1:59 pm
    And if you offered Nova + Sanchez + Betances then maybe the Braves listen on McCann.

    Oh I’m sure….,but the Yankees aren’t good enough to make a trade like that this year…..you can just sign McCann in 3 months and keep those players

  94. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Why in the world would the Twins want Hughes and Joba? So they can have the fun of trading them?

  95. champ809 July 18th, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Bustero

    That package for McCann is ridiculous! The Giants two years ago got Beltran who is a much better player then Mccann as a rental for 1 a prospect in Zach Wheeler and many thought they overpaid for a rental in Beltran.

    Nova has already won 40 games in the league and has the second highest winning % among starters in the majors since his debut….he should be enough in a 1 for 1 considering he’s under team control for 3 more years and McCann walks in Nov. No way the Yanks would trade sanchez and Nova together for a rental in McCann.

  96. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Blake-

    It definitely increases his value if a deal can get done.

    You don’t think he’d sign in a heartbeat with the Halos if the money is decent ?

    Or the D’Backs ?

    Or the Pads ?

    Or the Giants ?

    You’re kidding, right ?

  97. blake July 18th, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    “If we did, we’d have nothing left of out top ten..”

    Eh his contract is pretty bad do if they did trade him i don’t think they could ask a team to take all that money and gut their farm system …..

  98. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Why in the world would the Twins want Hughes and Joba? So they can have the fun of trading them?

    Draft picks

  99. champ809 July 18th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    the braves don’t have anybody in their top 10 as good as Sanchez

  100. blake July 18th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    “You don’t think he’d sign in a heartbeat with the Halos if the money is decent ?”

    Perhaps….but teams tend to not make trades with the assumption that they can extend a player…..it’s too risky because there is no guarantee the player will sign

  101. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    traded players don’t net draft picks for the team they’re traded to.
    The twins would get nothing in return for losing Joba and Hughes when they walk.

  102. blake July 18th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    john smith says:
    July 18, 2013 at 2:05 pm
    Why in the world would the Twins want Hughes and Joba? So they can have the fun of trading them?

    “Draft picks”

    You can’t get draft picks for players traded mid season anymore…..

  103. Jerkface July 18th, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Draft picks

    Changed in the last CBA, player has to be on a team for the whole year to be draft pick elig.

  104. john smith July 18th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    traded players don’t net draft picks for the team they’re traded to.
    The twins would get nothing in return for losing Joba and Hughes when they walk.

    Didn’t know that changed, thanks

  105. Jerkface July 18th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Changed from the last CBA i should say, changed in this new cba.

  106. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    the braves don’t have anybody in their top 10 as good as Sanchez

    This is false, imo. But then again, I’m no scout – all I can do is read the reports.

  107. blake July 18th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

    Hughes would be a good get for Minnesota if they could sign him…..he’d fit better in that park.

  108. blake July 18th, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    The Braves might not have anybody with Sanchez’s upside….but they have Gattis who can catch and they also have Betancoirt who is almost ready and a great defender…..so I don’t know that catcher is a huge need for them…..as mentioned they need a 3B and really need somebody better than Ugly at 2B…..

  109. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    “Draft picks”

    I don’t think Joba would get a QO from the Twinkies. Not sure Hughes would either.

  110. ManningRules July 18th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Not only is Sanchez not what the Braves do not want (they have a stable of great young arms in their system) – they need a catcher. Not another mediocre catcher with a better bat.

    Betances isn’t as good as their top four prospects is what I meant, but regardless, they’re going to go with Bethancourt, who isn’t that far behind Sanchez with a bat, and is miles better defensively.

    No argument intended. They don’t need him, or want him, and the other parts can be had without giving up McCann. Plus, you know, theyre in the race. They probably arent going to move him without being blown away. Which that package certainly does not.

  111. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    Blake-

    The negotiating window means that they are not taking any risk.

    If Hughes does not agree the deal is null and void and the acquiring Team simply moves on.

    You don’t think preliminary discussions w Hughes would be had beforehand so they had a good idea he would be amenable to signing an extension ?

  112. Wave Your Hat July 18th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    “Hughes would be a good get for Minnesota if they could sign him…..he’d fit better in that park.”

    They wouldn’t trade for the right to negotiate with him.

  113. Shame Spencer July 18th, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    I wish they could trade draft picks in MLB.

    And yeah, I dunno what the Twins think they can get back for Justin…

  114. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    New one —–>

  115. blake July 18th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    “They wouldn’t trade for the right to negotiate with him.”

    Probably not a lot no when they could just sign him this winter and trade nothing

  116. Howler July 18th, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    I think Hughes wants to test FA and see if he can land on the west coast, I’m not sure he’d negotiate an extension unless the dollars were too good to pass up, and thats not going to happen with him

  117. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Howler-

    The only Teams I’d try to offer him too would be Teams near his home.

    In that case, if the dollars were close, he’d likely sign.

    If he doesn’t the acquiring team simply moves on.

    It is definitely worth a try.

    I think the odds favor it.

  118. Howler July 18th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Yea…I meant to Minn.

  119. MTU July 18th, 2013 at 2:21 pm

    If Hughes is insistent on going to FA ( which I do not necessarily buy) then his value is very low IMO.

    He is worth much less as a rental than if he would sign an extension.

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