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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


Jeter not dwelling on injuries

Posted by: Brian Heyman - Posted in Misc on Sep 03, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Rob Thomson, Conor Gillaspie, Derek JeterDerek Jeter has injured himself three times this year, fracturing his left ankle again and straining his right quad and calf. But he has been back for seven games since his third DL stay and he says he isn’t thinking about hurting those 39-year-old legs again.

“I don’t really have a choice,” Jeter said after the Yankees’ 9-1 win over the White Sox Monday at Yankee Stadium. “We only have 20-something games left. Our job is to try and go out there and win as many games as possible. It’s kind of hard to play the game when you’re thinking about not being injured.”

Joe Girardi was encouraged to see how Jeter ran in this game. In the first inning, he had an RBI single, moved to second on an error and tagged up and sped to third on a fly to right.

“That made me feel pretty good,” Girardi said.

Jeter said he feels fine. The Captain hadn’t been fine at the plate, coming in with no hits in his previous 14 at-bats. But he went 2 for 4. This was just his 12th major-league game in a season he called “kind of unique.”

Here’s a link to my Yankees notebook on Jeter and the debuts of J.R. Murphy and Cesar Cabral. And here’s a link to my story on Phil Hughes and David Huff and the happenings in Monday’s game.

Associated Press photo.

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322 Responses to “Jeter not dwelling on injuries”

  1. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 7:56 am

    Hopefully Derek is past everything now and he can give them something down the stretch

    only 3 back in the LC now of Tampa…..The Yankees play both the Orioles and Rays this month so their fate is in their hands if they win.

    Having Houston the last series of the year could be huge if they can stay close enough to take advantage of it.

  2. MTU September 3rd, 2013 at 8:17 am

    Good morning.

    Just a quick visit today.

    Hike day.

    The Yankees are now 2.5 games behind in the WC.

    Tampa got slaughtered last night.

    Cleveland lost so we now control our destiny once again.

    Just have to keep winning.

    I’ll miss the game but I hope Kuroda gets back on track and the bats come thru.

  3. MTU September 3rd, 2013 at 8:19 am

    It has the potential to be an exciting finish Blake.

  4. The Genius Maker September 3rd, 2013 at 8:19 am

    Genius Maker,
    I have been an advocate of the Start the righty and awitch to the lefty after 1 pitch against teams that platoopn strategy for quite some time. You can’t overdo it and it is a little less effective with the expanded roster but I like it.
    ***********

    One could argue it is more effective after rosters expand because while the other teams has more options, they are probably weak options and losing a pitcher just to start isn’t as painful for you because you have so much more depth. I think you will see this used more often, especially if you have pitchers who are much stronger against one side than the other.

  5. CountryClub September 3rd, 2013 at 8:20 am

    Need to go at least 7-4 in this stretch coming up with Boston and Baltimore. And to be honest, they probably really need to go 8-3. Four games series are tough.

  6. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 8:23 am

    MTU,

    yup….the odds are still against them but they have been all year and here they still stand.

  7. MTU September 3rd, 2013 at 8:25 am

    Randy-

    Just wanted to respond to this morning’s comment to me on Hughes.

    Yes. That’s how I see it. Hughes is 1 pitch away from being effective.

    I am amazed he has not picked up either a sinker or a split.

    They both would have helped him immensely. It seems obvious.

    Do not know where the disconnect lies ?

    Catch you later.

  8. MTU September 3rd, 2013 at 8:27 am

    Blake-

    No matter what happens they have done well to get this far.

  9. MTU September 3rd, 2013 at 8:29 am

    Blake-

    Who would you target for 3b for next year.

    I hope they are not planning on running with Adams/Reynolds ?

  10. The Genius Maker September 3rd, 2013 at 8:35 am

    Boston is almost just another team…
    Take the last 2 from Chicago
    Take 4 of the 7 Boston games
    Take 3 of 4 from Baltimore
    Go 7 of 9 against Toronto, Houston and SF
    Take 2 of 3 from TB

    18-7 should do it.

  11. Shame Spencer September 3rd, 2013 at 8:56 am

    I’ve had two positive cheesesteak experiences and one negative (CC :mad: ).

    I don’t know what to make of this…

  12. 4TrainNorth September 3rd, 2013 at 9:09 am

    Hughes may be one pitch away, but mentally he’s maybe halfway there. He’s just not tough enough.

  13. Mike Ri September 3rd, 2013 at 9:18 am

    Can’t believe the Yanks are just 2.5 games behind in the WC.

    COME ON GUYS !!! Finish Strong !!

  14. tomingeorgia September 3rd, 2013 at 9:21 am

    Hope the Yankees don’t take the day off like the blog has so far.

  15. Tackelberry September 3rd, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Well, these two weeks should decide whether Yanks will be in it or not til the end with 4 against the Red Sox, then 4 in Balt., and 3 in Boston. Also have 3 at home vs. Rays the last week of the season. First though, they’ve got a really tough task tonight against Sale. Kuroda needs to rediscover his command, tonight. SHould be exciting

  16. exiledintampa September 3rd, 2013 at 9:31 am

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  17. The Genius Maker September 3rd, 2013 at 9:32 am

    who would have thought tampa would win 2 of their last 10? hope it continues

  18. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 9:35 am

    tomingeorgia-

    “What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate”

    the divide here is so large that conversation isn’t enjoyable for anyone for much of the time.

    not saying what anyone’s politics are , but it would be like me having coffee with rush limbaugh. we’re such polar opposites there’s no middle ground. in no time i’d be telling him he’s a fat gluttonous pig who really sucks at golf. i mean how could anyone know anything about the middle east if he can’t even figure out how to swing a golf club.

    so what’s happening is a lot of nice people like doreen just stay away because it’s not worth getting in the middle of the polar opposites. i think the blog decline is really that simple.

    there are the people who support management at all times, and the people like me that thinks management has to change.

    my conclusion is we really can’t talk to each other.

    that said, i’m rooting for the present team to make a charge and win the whole thing. but for very different reasons than the other side.

  19. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 9:44 am

    “Who would you target for 3b for next year.”

    I’d try to buy low on Headley…..or if I could sign Peralta cheap I’d consider that.

  20. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Actually if they could acquire Andrus then I’d move Jeter to 3B and fix two problems at the same time.

  21. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 9:46 am

    blake-

    doesn’t the off season depend on what happens with cano?

    don’t they have to either sign him or not sign him to know what to do next?

  22. austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 9:48 am

    A pitcher one pitch from being effective is like a hitter who can hit everything but a breaking ball. Multiple good pitches make a starter. If Hughes hasn’t learned one by now, I doubt he ever will. His slider, or whatever he callsit, is not sharp. He rarely can get his CU over, and if he does it is often belt high.

    Tampa seems to be severely struggling. Can’t happen to a better group. Somehow, they irritate me as a team.

  23. Shame Spencer September 3rd, 2013 at 9:54 am

    I still think Hughes stays in the rotation… Huff looked good but the WS are a not at all good team.

  24. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 9:55 am

    austinmac-

    look at burnett. he seemed unfixable, and it turns out that wasn’t true.

    i agree that hughes would need a make over, but one really important thing is he’s a healthy guy. he makes his starts.

    if the rays irritate you , you better hope they don’t get a hold of hughes .

    they would break him down and start over again with what he does well and then work on what he doesn’t.

  25. Tackelberry September 3rd, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Blake:

    Andrus has an awful contract. THink I’d stay away from him

  26. Shame Spencer September 3rd, 2013 at 9:56 am

    blake September 3rd, 2013 at 9:45 am

    Actually if they could acquire Andrus then I’d move Jeter to 3B and fix two problems at the same time.

    ——————-

    I didn’t get a chance to stick around, but I brought up the Nunez/Jeter thing yesterday here and to my dad. My dad is so confused as to why people think Nunez, with more playing time, will hit .280+ and be better defensively.

    I’ve been trying to convince him to get a handle on here…. imagine having two Shames?!

  27. 4TrainNorth September 3rd, 2013 at 9:58 am

    There’s a good handful of stud pitchers in MLB right now who are still in their early 20s yet are already contributing significantly to their teams–even pitching like aces. Many thought Hughes would be this type of guy. He’s just not, and never was. It’s just too bad, although completely undestandable, that we must continue to evaluate his performance in light of the once-lofty expectations. This will dog him for the rest of his career as a middling starting pitcher.

  28. austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Randy,

    Hughes throws about 92-93 during most games. His fastball seems to have some movement at times. He has pretty good command of his fastball. I would call it a plus pitch, but if he can’t get hitters off it, they will hit it. His slider seems very recognizable to most hitters. He gets few swings and misses.

    If you compare his stuff with Nova’s, he falls well short. Nova throws harder, has a very good curve and a developing CU. At this point, Hughes does not have enough major league quality pitches to beat good teams.

    Can someone teach him another pitch? Could be, but it doesn’t seem to be the Yankees.

  29. Shame Spencer September 3rd, 2013 at 10:02 am

    Andrus has an awful contract.

    ————–

    It’s really only awful if he’s the player he was in the first half of this season… I’d take Andrus in a heartbeat.

  30. Wang IS Taiwan September 3rd, 2013 at 10:03 am

    MTU September 3rd, 2013 at 8:27 am

    No matter what happens they have done well to get this far.

    ~~~~~~~~~

    Frankly, it’s stunning considering the injuries and who we’ve had on the roster at various times. Regardless of how this ends, the team has done an amazing job to stay in the mix.

    Hope the hike was glorious today.

  31. Tackelberry September 3rd, 2013 at 10:04 am

    Need HIroki to get back to his old stingy self tonight since offense doesn’t figure to get many runs off Sale. TOugh task tonight.

  32. pat September 3rd, 2013 at 10:05 am

    CJNitkowski
    Excited, nervous and everything in between, filling in for Suzyn Waldman on @Yankees radio with legendary PXP man John Sterling Wed night.

  33. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 10:06 am

    austinmac-

    do you have any idea what the people on this blog meant back when hughes was first brought up that he had nothing else to learn in the minors?

    to me bringing him up when he obviously had more to learn has taken him sideways.

  34. Tackelberry September 3rd, 2013 at 10:10 am

    CJ NItkowski? Last year was Jeff Nelson. He did a great job. Was hoping he’d fill in again. Well, anyone is better than Waldman

  35. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 10:16 am

    Randy,

    We have a difference of opinion on Hughes.

    This is his 7th year not his 5th and he wouldn’t be the first decent who prospect didn’t live up to early billing, you have to know when to fold.

    Like everyone else here I’m disappointed with Hughes, my fear is more of the same with a contract. I’m all for patience with young pitching but he has had 7 years. One would think if he needed another pitch it would have been part of his arsenal by now.

    Robertson and Nova are pretty decent examples of prospects who have come up through the farm system and have made continual progress.

    frankly I don’t know how you could compare either to Hughes The big difference I see between Nova and Hughes aside from the obvious talent is how Nova responds to adversity.

    Hard to know what drives anyone player but I think that I’ve seen enough of Hughes to know that it isn’t there.

  36. Ys Guy September 3rd, 2013 at 10:21 am

    dump hughes, there is no more time or games to waste on him.

  37. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 10:23 am

    If Hughes had the talent Burnett does we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

    For whatever reasons Burnett was not consistent while with the Yankees maybe he is a small market guy. Don’t know the answer to that one, but I do know in his case the talent was always there.

  38. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 10:28 am

    A couple a years ago when Hughes came into camp overweight and out of shape knowing that he had a spot in the rotation told me everything that I need to know about Phil Hughes.

  39. JimK September 3rd, 2013 at 10:32 am

    I always liked Hughes and have been very disappointed by his failure to develop as a quality starter. He has been a ML pitcher for a number of years now and while his injuries have not helped he is still the same pitcher he was when 1st came up. If he has not added another effective pitch by now I doubt he ever will.
    He has decent but not great stuff and if I recall he was originally touted as having a plus CB, and that has not been shown to be true. Hughes also will never be truly successful as a FB pitcher; his stuff is just not good enough for that, and I do not think in the long run it will not matter where he pitches unless he suddenly learns how to induce more ground balls.
    In this regard, I do not think that Nova’s stuff is vastly superior to Hughes stuff, I just think Nova has more self confidence, a desire to be a dominant pitcher, and learned to improve on his mistakes. Hughes, on the other hand, quickly gets to a 2 strike count on hitters, but has consistently demonstrated an inability to put away hitters. He then gets frustrated and invariably makes a mistake. Whereas Nova has demonstrated the “killer instinct” at least this year, Hughes seems to lack the mental makeup to do the same.
    This year, in particular, he has demonstrated a knack for pitching to the scoreboard, except in his case he always pitches just well enough to lose; in close game he manages to limit the damage, but when the Y’s give him a nice cushion he gives it right back.

  40. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 10:35 am

    “doesn’t the off season depend on what happens with cano?

    don’t they have to either sign him or not sign him to know what to do next?”

    yea pretty much…..and the bad thing about that is that Cano’s team will drag it out a long time to get top dollar and if the yanks sit around waiting then they’ll be screwed.

  41. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 10:38 am

    “Andrus has an awful contract. THink I’d stay away from him”

    I disagree….I think it’s a fairly reasonable contract if he plays like he has the last 3 years aside from the first half of 2013.

    Andrus had a bad first half of this season…….it’s much more likely it’s merely that than that he’s fallen off at the age of 25.

    He’s hitting .314 .379 .397 .777 in the 2nd half.

  42. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 10:40 am

    “My dad is so confused as to why people think Nunez, with more playing time, will hit .280+ and be better defensively.”

    there is nothing in his track record, the statistics, or anything I’ve seen observationally to suggest that he’d be that guy…….

    As a full time SS IMO he’d be a .260 hitter with about a .310 OBP, 8-10 homers, and below average defense……basically not good enough.

  43. Wave Your Hat September 3rd, 2013 at 10:45 am

    It’s just too late for the Yanks and Hughes to have a future. I just hope he puts together some great games to close out the season which he is very capable of doing.

    That said, I think Hughes will get a solid contract from some team in the off-season and that it’s quite possible he will do well. I also think it’s possible Joba will become a starter for some other team and finally get his act together there, so what do I know.

  44. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 10:45 am

    “Robertson and Nova are pretty decent examples of prospects who have come up through the farm system and have made continual progress.

    frankly I don’t know how you could compare either to Hughes The big difference I see between Nova and Hughes aside from the obvious talent is how Nova responds to adversity.”

    rhapsody in blue-

    i see the big difference as hughes got the special treatment. he got the top of the line coaching. the wheels were greased.

    nova and robertson were thrown in the deep end to see if they’d drown or learn to swim.

    joba and kennedy got the special treatment too.
    it’s really the kiss of death for yankee prospects.

  45. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 10:53 am

    I think a lot of things caused Hughes to be where he is now…..not just the Yankees development path……I think that may have been some of it but also perhaps he just never was as good as we thought and perhaps the division and park are just a bad fit for him.

    I do think there is something to the notion that Nova was made to fight his way to where he is now and maybe that honed him…….

    Gardner, Nova, DRob all had to scratch and claw there way onto the roster.

  46. bruceb September 3rd, 2013 at 10:53 am

    I like the idea of starting Hughes on Wednesday against the White Sox so he doesn’t have to face the Red Sox. The only snags I can see with this are (a) although he only reached 20 pitches yesterday, how many did he throw keeping loose during the rain delay? and (b) Huff would probably not be available to back him up.

  47. tomingeorgia September 3rd, 2013 at 11:02 am

    bruceb,
    I saw that suggestion on RAB, and I like it, too. If Huff weren’t available, there’s always Warren for that role.

  48. austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Nunez shows flashes of ability, but I agree there is nothing in his MLB or MILB stats that suggest a .280 hitter. I like his speed, but his defense is still iffy. Every ball hit to him and every throw makes me a bit uneasy.

    I would love to have Andrus, but in these days of budgetary reductions, it will never happen.

    As for Hughes, he has never had Burnett’s stuff. Burnett still throws harder, I bet, plus he has a very good curve. Hughes simply does not have enough quality pitches. One cannot live by a 92 MPH fastball without a plus second pitch. he doesn’t have one.

  49. djsunyc September 3rd, 2013 at 11:06 am

    hughes, in my mind, is still the heir apparent to mariano…but they won’t make him a closer.

  50. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Randy,

    Prospects are not clones. They’re individuals. I actually think in each case they all had decent opportunities to make it in this organization.

    Kennedy was moved for Granderson, a move at the time we had to make.

    How can you say Joba wasn’t thrown in the deep end when in actuality he was brought up his first year in the Yankee organization, pitching right through all the levels in the minors then promoted up to the Yankees then setting up for Mariano in the play-offs?

    Joba and Kennedy brought up the first year they were drafted 2007, sink or float. And in the rotation the following year. Not exactly cuddling treatment.

    And it’s not the fault of the organization when Hughes comes into camp overweight and out of shape and then becomes injured. That reflects on Hughes no one else.

  51. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 11:11 am

    “As for Hughes, he has never had Burnett’s stuff. Burnett still throws harder, I bet, plus he has a very good curve. Hughes simply does not have enough quality pitches. One cannot live by a 92 MPH fastball without a plus second pitch. he doesn’t have one.”

    I always think it’s interesting when folks compare Hughes to AJ…..I guess they are similar in that their Yankee careers have been very up and down and inconsistent…..but beyond that they really are nothing alike.

    AJ had much better stuff than Hughes does when he was young and really even now…..AJ threw in the upper 90′s and had probably the best breaking ball in the game for a period of time and if you look his number pre-yankees were really solid and after he left have been solid.

    AJ has had a very good big league career…..

  52. yankinvegas September 3rd, 2013 at 11:20 am

    Do you all think that we have to sign Cano? And what will the market be for him?
    As for Hughes, you would think that he would want to leave and go someplace where the evaluation is not made start to start and he can relax. Some people are not made for NYY. That being said, he has never been consistent except for 09 and 10 and we will be better off without him.
    This year he has been one of the handful of worst starters in MLB. If he was 8 and 9 now, think of how much better off we would be in the standings.

  53. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 11:27 am

    “Do you all think that we have to sign Cano? And what will the market be for him?”

    I think if they want to compete at all short term then yes…..but if Hal is going to stay on a strict budget then long term it’ll be a bad contract as he will get somewhere between 150-200 million….probably closer to 200 million.

  54. Durant1985 September 3rd, 2013 at 11:38 am

    Hughes needs to go. Every inning I hold my breath because he’s always on the verge of giving up a game breaking homer. I like the guy, and maybe in a perfect world he turns it around, but at this critical point in the season we need a guarantee. Not saying Huff or Warren is, but they’ve been more consistent this year than Hughsie.

  55. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 11:40 am

    rhapsody in blue-

    if you can rationalize that the yankees did a good developmental job with hughes , jobs, and kennedy and that it was the athletes fault and not cashman or his coaches than we have nothing else to discuss.

    you by definition seem to have a rule that says anything that doesn’t work out is any one’s fault but the people in charge.

    it goes without saying that hughes, kennedy, and joba were a big fail by any rational standards.
    the yankees got very little out of these three top prospects.

    they wet the crown jewels of the system and the yankees the low end of expectations. grander son?
    seriously , he’s gone to so what did they get. and where’s austin jackson? he was part of that deal too.

  56. 4TrainNorth September 3rd, 2013 at 11:43 am

    I have a feeling we are going to see a dfferent CC in Sept than we have seen all year. Don’t know why–just think he’s going to dial it up some.

  57. Durant1985 September 3rd, 2013 at 11:46 am

    4 train north-

    Idk man we’ve been waiting for CC to turn it around all year. Hasn’t happen yet. Gotta wait n see.

  58. Warning Track Power September 3rd, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Yankess are 16-8 since that awful series in Chicago about 1 month ago.
    Translates in .667 winning percentage. A pace like that might be good enough to get
    into the playoffs.

  59. 4TrainNorth September 3rd, 2013 at 11:48 am

    I suspect there’s some sort of injury he’s dealing with, and while I don’t want to see him aggravate it by emptying the tank, I think he’s going to bring all he’s got. Mostly, I’m just hoping the big man has some reserves for times like this.

  60. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 11:50 am

    Randy

    We knew when we traded Jackson we were getting an older vintage of him but at the time considering the age of team I seemed to think everyone was on board, after all we did win a WS in 2009 which was the plan btw.

    Now of course that Jackson has developed into the player everyone thought he would be and an aging Granderson coming off of two injuries and is having a down year it’s time for you to do your usual kick them while they’re down routine.

    On the subject of Joba, who would you blame for the trampoline injury Hal or Hank?

    Do you believe when Joba was nailed for DWI that it was the first time that he drank and drove? Or if it was the last time? And who would be the blame for that?

    Joba having a substance abuse problem which is just my suspicion would explain a lot particularly his weight issues, his erratic pitching his DWI.

    But all that being said none of his behavior has anything to do with Yankee mgmt.

  61. rm September 3rd, 2013 at 11:50 am

    Not that it matters much but the Yankees now have their destiny in their own hands. If they win all of the remaining 25 games (nearly imposible) the worst they can finish is a tie for first with the Redsox

  62. pat September 3rd, 2013 at 11:55 am

    craigcalcaterra
    Good interview with Selig. Though Bud’s “I didn’t know x, so baseball didn’t know x” defense of PEDs is convenient. http://hardballtalk.nbcsports......e-balance/

  63. Bo knows September 3rd, 2013 at 11:56 am

    I would think that Kuroda is just going through a dead arm period, the same as Pettite did a couple of turns ago. If he isn’t, then it’s time to bend way over and make kissing sounds.

    Whichever, I’d suggest that Betances be given first shot at middle relief and be rode hard, maybe he can be stretched out next year. He’s been pitching multiple innings in relief down on the farm, very successfully. I’d even consider piggy backing him with Hughes’

    At best, the Yankees are missing two starters next year and possibly three, with CC trying to find himself at the lower velocity level.

  64. 4TrainNorth September 3rd, 2013 at 11:57 am

    CC should be watching as much tape of David Wells as he can.

  65. Warning Track Power September 3rd, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    Regarding the earlier discussion about Hughes, the kid does not have enough talent
    in that arm of his currently to pitch well at YS.
    The fastball might be a plus pitch.
    What else?
    His slider is predictable and nothing like a devastating slider that Sergio Romo from the Giants throws.
    Hughes’ CU is awful only because he does not throw that pitch enough. I have said this a million times. Hughes needs to throw that CU a lot to get the hitters off his fastball and also achieve a lot more swing and misses.
    Then there is the curve. Nova is a great example of that a curve ball can do for a pitcher.
    Again, more swings and misses.

    Hughes is great at getting to 0-2, but his lack of stuff gets exposed because any hitter
    can stand at the plate and foul off pitches until Hughes makes a mistake.

  66. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    “let’s go Yankee FO!!!!!!!”

    randy you are a joke….

  67. axel September 3rd, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Granderson was not in NY in 2009.

  68. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    “But all that being said none of his behavior has anything to do with Yankee mgmt.”

    rhapsody in blue

    i see you as so pro management that you believe the yankees can do no wrong.

    in your eyes have they made any mistakes ever?

    and that is a serious question.

    if so , how?

  69. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    Randy,

    Of course they have. To err is human.

    But not in the examples that you have cited.

  70. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    Randy if there is a pattern here that would be your belief that an individual should not be held responsible for his/her own behavior.

  71. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    RIB

    Don’t you see comrade randy has an agenda?
    His best friend Neil Allen was axed by Cashman.

  72. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Good morning still,

    A couple of thoughts about the current subjects:

    1) Hughes at the start had more upside than Nova… But I agree with Randy, he was rushed, jerked around from the rotation to the BP and and he got hurt on that fateful night in Arlington. He was never again the same pitcher… Nowadays, his FB is ok most of the times but he lacks secondary pitches to survive in the majors. Is that simple

    Nova on the other hand pitched 300-400 innings in the minors, got the chance to develop his secondary offerings and he had to work his ass of in order to make the roster… That builds character, hence the off the charts makeup we have seen from him.

    2) I do think there is a problem in their development department ( too many top prospects never make it, and those that fly under the radar are the ones that actually do )… Cano was never considered a top prospect for example, same goes with Nova… Development takes time and some struggles, otherwise the prospect never learns from his mistakes IMO and grows from them as a result.

    About the divide…. If we just understand that this is just baseball, things would go much more smoother… It’s not life and death stuff we are dealing with guys, just a game…

  73. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    No one here is pro or anti management.
    We are pro Yankees.
    Whatever makes them better…
    You might need a break as you are repeating your mantra over and over.
    Either that or a Yoga class :)

  74. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    Ask yourself why for example do some manage to succeed with the same team, mgmt. and organization while others fail?

    Has to be on the individual more than anything.

    Robertson was the setup man for Melancon all through the minors, however Melancon struggled both here and in Boston who would you blame?

  75. Shame Spencer September 3rd, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    Cano is going to cost a truck load of money and blake is right, his team is at this point likely going to take him to the FA market and see what’s what.

    If his agency goes that route, we’ll be at the end October and just beginning our waiting game with Cano…. do we think he’ll be the first piece off the board? Or does this become a Greinke/Pujols situation where we’re waiting until early December?

  76. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    luis

    How about a few years ago when Hughes knew that he finally had a spot in the rotation he showed up for camp overweight and out of shape?

    Like a contented cow.

    Then he was injured.

  77. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    RIB,

    They were never top prospects…. Don’t you see the pattern?… It is weird that those considered to be the highest ceiling almost invariably flame out, while those fill in type of prospects ( Cano signing bonus 10.000 dollars for example )are the ones that breakout… I think the hiring of Patterson was a sign that at least the FO finally realized that there was something wrong

  78. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:18 pm
    luis

    How about a few years ago when Hughes knew that he finally had a spot in the rotation he showed up for camp overweight and out of shape?

    Like a contented cow.

    Then he was injured.

    ====================================

    RIB,

    Precisely… He was treated like a Prima Donna… He was never given the chance to learn and struggle in the minors… Although I think the Arlington injury had more to do with him not fulfilling his potential than anything else and his BP stint prevented him from continuing his secondary offerings development which in turn made him an incomplete pitcher… If you watch him, you can see clearly that his landing isn’t as long as it used to be ( Hamstrings fear? )

  79. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    rhapsody in blue-

    no one is perfect. steve jobs made mistakes.

    what mistakes do you believe the yankees have made , or is it your position that by definition they are the yankees and therefore make no mistakes ?

    its a serious question because i am not aware of you ever criticizing them ever.

  80. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    luis no I do not.

    I know when Nova and Hellickson were both at AAA there were a lot of experts that said Hellickson would have more success in the bigs despite having similar numbers.

    The stark difference between Hughes and Nova aside the obvious talent is Nova has remained hungry and oblivious to adversity, which if you recall effected him early on, when he first came up, he has worked hard to overcome it as we watched him grow before our eyes.

    Comparing Hellickson and Nova, hard to know what drives one to success maybe the difference is where they came from. Always thought it was unfair for the “experts” to place Nova behind Hellickson.

  81. Wave Your Hat September 3rd, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    Wow, the Yanks are 2.5 GB of the wild card after everything that’s happened this year, and folks are still arguing over who’s the better Yankee fan and whether the FO is any good?

    How about whether the Yanks can beat Sale tonight?

  82. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    How about whether the Yanks can beat Sale tonight?
    ============
    Win or lose, some here could care less about the day to day win or loss.
    The big picture to them/him is next year and 189.

  83. Wave Your Hat September 3rd, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    “Win or lose, some here could care less about the day to day win or loss.
    The big picture to them/him is next year and 189.”

    I understand all that, but if the Yanks could somehow slip into the post-season and then do well, I could live with the 89.

  84. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    Mick,

    You can state you disagreement without the snarky remarks bro

  85. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    randy

    Not true, I do agree with you and the others that if we are picking from a less then advantageous position in the draft year in and out then we need to remain aggressive with international free agents like GS was.

    But I attribute more to injuries this season and the current state of affairs then anything else. Doreen had a great post a few days ago exactly addressing this.

    Now next season and the season after once we climb out from under a few of these large contracts if the Yankees remain frugal I will be right there complaining with you.

    The big elephant in the room as we speak is the 228 M team payroll.

  86. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Always thought it was unfair for the “experts” to place Nova behind Hellickson.

    ======================================

    Unfortunately, I am not able to watch the minors… All I heard then is that he was a filler while the killer B’s were ready… Then I saw him on that game in Toronto and I realized that we had a diamond in the rough…Makeup is what separates the aces from the rest… And Nova’s is amazing

  87. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 11:50 am

    —————–

    Of course Joba takes the blame for the DWI and the trampoline but they handled the kid completely wrong from the beginning now looking back on it. If Joba was the only started of theirs that failed it would be entirely on him but that’s not the case.

  88. Warning Track Power September 3rd, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    Did anybody see what happened to Masterson yesterday?
    Kid was throwing 86-87 MPH with his fastball. Was removed from
    the game with an injury to his ribs(left side).
    That would be a huge loss for the Indians if Masterson was injured or throwing
    his fastball around 86-87.

  89. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    luis I do not need you to judge my comments.
    you don’t seem to like it when you are judged.

  90. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    That would be a huge loss for the Indians if Masterson was injured or throwing
    his fastball around 86-87.
    ===============
    May be it was the fault of the FO…

  91. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    Mick,

    I am not judging you… Just pointing an obvious snarky remark… If we are to have a more civil blog, this doesn’t help… I am sure you can understand from where I am coming from

  92. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    Odds,

    There is a clear pattern… I think that’s why Contreras got the axe

  93. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    luis (ex-presidente),
    you no longer have the right to judge snark as you are a known instigator altho you try to be subtle.

  94. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    Against All Odds

    Hughes, Joba different people, different circumstances.

  95. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    The big picture to them/him is next year and 189.

    ——————-

    That’s because the FO made it about 189. It’s all anyone heard all off season.

  96. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    Instigator? really? Ok…. I leave you now so you can talk to the wall

  97. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:46 pm
    Against All Odds

    Hughes, Joba different people, different circumstances.

    ———————-

    But both failures yes. We can throw Brackman in there too.

  98. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    they are looking to trim the payroll
    maybe then they reload
    why is that so hard to understand?
    they want to win but spend smarter…

  99. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    luis September 3rd, 2013 at 12:44 pm
    Odds,

    There is a clear pattern… I think that’s why Contreras got the axe

    ——————

    Exactly.

    They realized things weren’t working and made a change.

  100. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    luis of course you won’t recognize it…classic….little digs at how you know better are just as snarky as in your face digs.

  101. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:48 pm
    they are looking to trim the payroll
    maybe then they reload
    why is that so hard to understand?
    they want to win but spend smarter…

    ——————–
    They are trimming payroll at a time when they aren’t ready to do so. The farm isn’t ready to handle that.

    They want to win but they left themselves vulnerable to what you see today. Did they honestly think rolling the dice on this yr was smart when they went into the season with an older roster. Yes you can’t account for everything that happened but is anyone surprised guys like Jeter and Alex went down with injuries or that Pettitte once again landed on the DL.

  102. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    Against All Odds

    All organizations have had their share of hyped Brackmans.

    Look at Craig Hansen or the great Daniel Bard.

    Injuries are the current problem in the Yankee organization.

  103. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    Yes, they are old but they are in the race and will be next year.
    Some fans just worry too much and look for things to complain about.

  104. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 12:52 pm
    Against All Odds

    All organizations have had their share of hyped Brackmans.

    Look at Craig Hansen or the great Daniel Bard.

    Injuries are the current problem in the Yankee organization.

    ——————————

    But then the Red Sox also have a guy like Lester. Where is the Yankees Lester? I like Nova but he has to do this for more than 1 or 2 seasons.

    But injuries just explains it away as bad luck and I don’t think that’s the case.

  105. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    RIB

    Why do you engage him as he mocks you behind your back?

    That kind of bias should not be tolerated.

  106. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:53 pm
    Yes, they are old but they are in the race and will be next year.

    —————————

    Only if they make the proper moves you can’t expect them to use the same band aids and hope for the best.

  107. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    They will have the same OF next year as Grandy should be here.
    The key , of course, is Cano.
    I think Alex will get the same 50 games the others got.
    Romine will start and hit.
    They have pitching depth.
    They should be better next year.

  108. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    mick September 3rd, 2013 at 12:56 pm
    RIB

    Why do you engage him as he mocks you behind your back?

    That kind of bias should not be tolerated.

    ====================================

    What would you call this?…. A mother Teresa comment?

  109. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Against All Odds

    Discussing Lester brings us back to the Hughes argument.

    But can you ignore Phelps, Warren, Nova, Claiborne?

    Nuno was injured, same Banuelos.

  110. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    luis, why do you always say you are leaving only to lurk and try to get the last word?
    you are no judge of comments unless you have joined the police after your presidential demotion.

  111. DONNYBROOK September 3rd, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Yesterday was a Perfect example of how a Mgr needs to recognize when Manifest Destiny is politely tapping him on the shoulder. The rain came along yesterday, and Hughes ended up throwing the equivalent number of pitches that a Bullpen arm frequently throws. The Yankees won yesterday, and All was A-OK in Yankee Land. Manifest Destiny was showing Girardi Exactly where Hughes belongs. Anyone that has ever coached any sport, at any level, knows they need to master the skill of being aware when this phenomenon is occurring. Girardi, (being a control freak), is deaf, dumb, and blind when it comes to recognizing this. He insists on putting his finger prints on everything that occurs on the field. His insistence on putting Wells smack-dab in the middle of the Yankee batting order is proof of this Huge short-coming. If the man will just, “get outta the way”, this Yankee team will make the Playoffs. It’s simply Manifest Destiny.

  112. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    RIB,

    Was any of those prospects you mention top prospects at any given time?… That’s the pattern that I see… No top prospect makes it, those that fly under the radar and stay long enough in the minors make it

  113. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    Why do you engage him as he mocks you behind your back?

    That kind of bias should not be tolerated.

    ====================================

    What would you call this?…. A mother Teresa comment?
    ====================================
    what provoked it? his mother teresa comments?

  114. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    No Mick,

    I just find it hilarious that you accuse people of doing what you do on a regular basis…:D

  115. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    you do it, why shouldn’t I?

  116. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    I don’t see Odds mocking anyone… Only in your little mind a comment like the one he made deserves such qualification

    And now I am out for real… Have a good instigating afternoon! :D

  117. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    luis

    Difficult to have top prospects when you draft were we do.

    Plus a lot of international free agents.

    I remember in 2005 when Wang and Cano were promoted how both were quite unknown and flew under the radar.

    Mad dog mocking the decision on WFAN asking who the hell is Robinson Canoe?

    Kept referring to Robbie as “Canoe”.

  118. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    you are disingenuous luis…you are lurking again….at least be accurate…look at the comments and show how AAO fits your description….to use your overused word, we were being “civil.”

  119. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 1:01 pm
    Against All Odds

    Discussing Lester brings us back to the Hughes argument.

    But can you ignore Phelps, Warren, Nova, Claiborne?

    Nuno was injured, same Banuelos.

    —————————–

    Claibourne is a reliever. Warren is a long man. Nova has to continue to build on this run. He has pitched very well before but then took a step back. But I love his turn around this season. Phelps has only had about 23 starts. We still need to see him.

    I’m just putting what they have done in context.

  120. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    I remember the Canoe comments.

  121. luis September 3rd, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    RIB,

    I agree, they do a very good job considering their regular drafting position… Hilarious your comment about mad dog… For real? Canoe? Have a good one…Later hopefully

  122. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    And now I am out for real… Have a good instigating afternoon!
    ===================
    Disingenuous.

  123. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    Against All Odds

    But they have all come up through our system and they are making contributions.

    Would be nice to have Nuno, Banuelos and Jose Ramirez next season as well.

    We are not exactly experiencing drought conditions when you factor in Nova.

  124. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    I’m out too, later mick.

  125. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    The more youth we have the more interesting and fulfilling it will be if they come to fruition.
    Of course, if they are not ready, there will be hell to pay by the same people.
    Being ready to come on board is not that far away and those that say we have failed in developing have nothing to base that on as they haven’t arrived yet.
    To criticize the past development of some that failed is unfair as we have been contenders the past 20 years.

  126. mick September 3rd, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    ok RIB, later…

  127. DONNYBROOK September 3rd, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    Glad that 3 Stooges “short” has concluded.

  128. Hassey September 3rd, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    Paging Dr. Thorndyke
    Paging Dr. Thorndyke
    Your services are desperately needed here at the Psychoneurotic Institute for the Very, VERY Nervous

  129. Durant1985 September 3rd, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    Its quite simple guys. We hold our own cards in our hands. 7 more games against Boston, 4 more against Baltimore, 3 more against Tampa. We can make it!

  130. RayVT September 3rd, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    **************************************************************
    Yanks September 3, 2013
    **************************************************************
    DIVISION LEADERS
    **************************************************************
    0.) Boston Has 18 Tough Games (57 Losses) 82 57 58.993%
    NYY-7; Balt-6; TB-3; DET-2___
    **************************************************************
    0.) Texas Has 15 Tough Games (58 Losses) 79 58 57.664%
    Oak-5; KC-3; TB-4; Pitt-3___
    **************************************************************
    **************************************************************
    WILDCARD LEADERS
    **************************************************************
    0) OAK Has 5 Tough Games (58 Losses) 79 58 57.664%
    Texas-5___ 0 (Games Out 1st Place)
    **************************************************************
    1.) TB Has 14 Tough Games (61 Losses) 75 61 55.147%
    Boston-3; Balt-4; NYY-3; Tex-4___ 5.5 (Games Out 1st Place)
    **************************************************************
    **************************************************************
    NEXT IN LINE
    **************************************************************
    2.) Balt Has 16 Tough Games (63 Losses) 73 63 53.676%
    TB-4; NYY-4; Cleve-2; Boston-6___ 7.5 (Games Out 1st Place) 2 (Games Out WC)
    **************************************************************
    3) NYY Has 14 Tough Games (64 Losses) 73 64 53.285%
    Boston-7; Balt-4; TB-3___ 8 (Games Out 1st Place) 2.5 (Games Out WC)
    **************************************************************
    4.) Cleve Has 8 Tough Games (65 Losses) 72 65 52.555%
    Balt-2; KC-6___ 3.5 (Games Out WC)
    **************************************************************
    5) KC Has 15 Tough Games (66 Losses) 71 66 51.825%
    Det-6; Tex-3; Cleve-6;___ 4.5 (Games Out WC)
    **************************************************************

  131. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    i think some people here would say when the titanic sunk it was the iceberg’s fault :)

    way back in the early days of the blog the people who unconditionally supported management said that once we see how hughes, joba, and kennedy turned out, we’d know how development was going.

    there was tabata, austin jackson, and montero. we’d have to wait to let it play out with them.

    then there were the killer B’s. let’s see how they do before passing judgement.

    notice a pattern?

    if there were an election , i would cast my vote against those in charge of yankee player development.

    the fact is the yankees have failed at development and there is no reason to continue with the present management.

  132. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    For real? Canoe

    —————————-

    Yea for real. He kept saying it to piss off the fans and Mike. Saying things like he’s not hitting and they might have to make a change lol. Mad Dog was brutal that day.

  133. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    Randy,

    Keeping it brief.

    If you want to go back to Hughes and Tabata then I guess you would have to include Wang and Cano.

    And in that same time period there was a WS championship.

  134. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    Later folks (for real this time)

  135. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    I understand Randy can be extreme in his points but his recent one is valid. Every few yrs it’s been wait until these batch of kids come up and then we can judge the farm. Yr after yr the results have been mixed and instead of saying well this isn’t working it’s still we draft low, injuries, etc. It’s not just one person but the thought exists among sections of the fan base. Yes it was too early to tell the state of the farm yrs ago but we are in yr 8 of the plan and the results haven’t been there.

  136. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    wang ?

    cano?

    wasn’t there a tampa faction that developed these guys?

    didn’t cashmn clear out these tampa guys?

    before you answer think that this may be a trick question :)

  137. Warning Track Power September 3rd, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    DONNYBROOK September 3rd, 2013 at 1:03 pm
    Yesterday was a Perfect example of how a Mgr needs to recognize when Manifest Destiny is politely tapping him on the shoulder. The rain came along yesterday, and Hughes ended up throwing the equivalent number of pitches that a Bullpen arm frequently throws. The Yankees won yesterday, and All was A-OK in Yankee Land. Manifest Destiny was showing Girardi Exactly where Hughes belongs. Anyone that has ever coached any sport, at any level, knows they need to master the skill of being aware when this phenomenon is occurring. Girardi, (being a control freak), is deaf, dumb, and blind when it comes to recognizing this. He insists on putting his finger prints on everything that occurs on the field. His insistence on putting Wells smack-dab in the middle of the Yankee batting order is proof of this Huge short-coming. If the man will just, “get outta the way”, this Yankee team will make the Playoffs. It’s simply Manifest Destiny.
    —————————————————————————————
    ABSURD

  138. Durant1985 September 3rd, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    What bothers me is that everybody wants to blame Cashman. Sure, some needs to be directed toward his way, seeing as he oversees the operation, but I think all things considering he has done a wonderful job. Fact is u CANNOT keep throwing big, long contracts out each n every year or else u are gonna end up JUST LIKE US. Players who are making a shi* ton of money on the decline. Thats where we are stuck. So what cashman is trying to do is stop-gap for a few years until we can rid ourselves of these contracts. On the flipside, I still think with a healty team start to finish this season we wouldnt even be having this convo.

  139. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    those that say we have failed in developing have nothing to base that on as they haven’t arrived yet.

    To criticize the past development of some that failed is unfair as we have been contenders the past 20 years.

    ————————

    Many of them have arrived and haven’t lived up to the hype. The get younger plan isn’t in it’s infancy.

    How is it unfair when the get praised for players like Drob and Cano. It can’t be both ways. No one is saying the yrs of winning means nothing but when discussing their development it can’t be overlooked how average or even below average they have been.

  140. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 1:48 pm

    RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 1:12 pm
    Against All Odds

    But they have all come up through our system and they are making contributions.

    Would be nice to have Nuno, Banuelos and Jose Ramirez next season as well.

    We are not exactly experiencing drought conditions when you factor in Nova

    —————————-

    They have made contributions and that can’t be ignored.

    There is a drought in a sense that many of the pitchers and position players they were counting on have either taken a step back or got injured. They were banking on the OF prospects to take a step forward and have nice seasons but they have been plagued by performance and injury issues.

  141. bruceb September 3rd, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    I’m not sure even if his biggest supporters would claim that Cashman has done a “wonderful” job.

    When you have the biggest payroll in baseball, it hides a multitude of sins.

    Cashman has basically covered up the cracks by sifting through the best of the garbage released by other teams. Some of the moves have worked; many haven’t.

    Some will argue it’s not his fault that the careers of players like Chamberlain and Hughes have gone backwards. But as Randy pointed out in an earlier post, the biggest indictment of his regime is the absence of any legitimate stars coming through the Minor League system.

    You’re not going to produce the core four every year but the paucity of talent in the farm right now is worrying to say the least.

  142. J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    How can you say Joba wasn’t thrown in the deep end when in actuality he was brought up his first year in the Yankee organization, pitching right through all the levels in the minors then promoted up to the Yankees then setting up for Mariano in the play-offs?
    ///

    I was not present for this discussion but I would really like to understand what Rhapsody in Blue had in mind when he said Chamberlain had been “pitching through all levels of the minors.”

    Joba Chamberlain was “thrown into the deep end of the pool” and then basically left there drown, once he swam through his relief cameo in 2007 with flying colors, and after he put up a dazzling first year as a starter in 2008.

    No matter what Joba currently is, no one can seriously look at these IP in the minors and conclude that he was properly developed – or even developed at all – by the Yankees.

    These are Chamberlain’s MiL IP before they decided he was a lifelong reliever:

    High A: 4.0 IP
    Double-A: 35.1 IP
    Triple- A: 8.0 IP

    Joba Chamberlain total MiL IP before being pulled as a starter: 83.1 IP

    He was never sent back, even though the Yankees had options left on him, until he was already banished to the bullpen and only for rehabs.

    In contrast, Ivan Nova MiL IP: 522.1 IP

    And that’s before he was ever called up.

    He has since been sent down twice for honing/tweaking, and that doesn’t include rehabs.

    David Phelps pitched 489 innings in the minors.

    Joba Chamberlain was not developed by the Yankees, he was brought up to fill a need in the BP and then yes thrown into the starting pool, where he was great.

    He got hurt, they did that insane abbreviated innings thing in 2009 – which both Andy Pettitte and CC Sabathia called out as impractical (my word) – and then they had that kangaroo “competition” in 2010 between Joba and Hughes.

    He “lost” that, and then his career as a starter was scrapped.

    Never sent him back to the minors, even though he and David Aldred (who helped Betances and Nova this year) found better mechanics for Chamberlain together.

    83.1 IP in the minors.

    Completely aborted development by the Yankees.

  143. austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    While I have no inside scoop, I believe Joba’s main problem is between his ears. From his pitch selection to his foolish life choices, I don’t see a thinking person.

    Everything we heard about Hughes was he was the next Clemens. However, despite our fond memeories of one night in Texas, Hughes never had Clemens stuff. As a starter he has a plus fastball, but not more. That has always been the case. He was overhyoped from day one and one good game in Texas causes faulty memories in my opinion.

  144. Tackelberry September 3rd, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Maybe the best thing is to come back with Hughes on Wednesday since he only threw 20n pitches, and then give CC an extra day and let him open up the series vs. the Red Sox

  145. Warning Track Power September 3rd, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 2:05 pm
    While I have no inside scoop, I believe Joba’s main problem is between his ears. From his pitch selection to his foolish life choices, I don’t see a thinking person.

    Everything we heard about Hughes was he was the next Clemens. However, despite our fond memeories of one night in Texas, Hughes never had Clemens stuff. As a starter he has a plus fastball, but not more. That has always been the case. He was overhyoped from day one and one good game in Texas causes faulty memories in my opinion.
    ————————————————————————————————
    Sad but true.
    I recall the hype about Hughes and his plus 95 MPH fastball. That was obviously incorrect.

    As for Joba, once again we have a pitcher that only has command of 1 pitch.
    As a hitter I am looking fastball and not worried about secondary or off-speed pitches
    because Joba cannot throw those consistently for strikes.

  146. J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    While I have no inside scoop, I believe Joba’s main problem is between his ears. From his pitch selection to his foolish life choices, I don’t see a thinking person.
    ///

    He could be these things, but even if he is those things, he would be them as a pitcher whose team invested just 35.1 innings at AA in, and only 8 in AAA.

    IOW, he could be all those things and actually still be a really good pitcher.

    The Yankees screwed up his development.

  147. J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    wang ?

    cano?

    wasn’t there a tampa faction that developed these guys?

    didn’t cashmn clear out these tampa guys?
    ///

    Cano is still here, no thanks to Cashman. With him as GM, the Yankees tried to trade him three times.

  148. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    I think there might be some truth to that when it comes to Joba. Between th ears probably [lays a big role. But I think one of the biggest issues is his stuff isn’t as good as it used to be. Joba’s confidence was directly in line with how good his stuff was.

  149. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    if cano is the biggest success the yankees have had developmentally , if he leaves, has development been a success ?

    doesn’t development mean also tying up the really good player the way the rays did with longoria?

    isn’t it a failure of cano walks now in his prime?

    how did the yankees not have the next three years of prime cano signed up years ago?

  150. Russell Munson September 3rd, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    “if cano is the biggest success the yankees have had developmentally , if he leaves, has development been a success ?”

    Sure. They got great production from an up-the-middle position through his prime years at a cost that was less than the market rate. Sounds like a success to me.

  151. Bronx Jeers September 3rd, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    Having Cano signed until age 31 is pretty much a triumph in this day and age IMO.

  152. comet September 3rd, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Luis and others Mick will fade into obscurity he so richly deserves if ignored. Please ignore him.

  153. J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    I think there might be some truth to that when it comes to Joba. Between th ears probably [lays a big role. But I think one of the biggest issues is his stuff isn’t as good as it used to be. Joba’s confidence was directly in line with how good his stuff was.
    ///

    Odds, an immature pitcher with talent is not going to develop confidence by never getting any real nurturing or mentoring.

    Chamberlain is like an intuitive actor who has never learned iambic pentameter and has never developed the proper breath capacity, speech and voice and thinks they can just do Shakespeare because they “feel it.”

    I’ve seen Ethan Hawke get killed trying to play “character points” of Hotspur in a Henry IV production at Lincoln Center, because he either had a crash course before doing to role or no training at all. He was a disaster.

    Chamberlain had “stuff” and a decent feel for four pitches. He had no training, however, no one to “scan the verse” for him, so he relied on stuff and when it wasn’t there he went with what gave him the most confidence: his slider.

    To me, it’s an even greater indictment that they just never bothered to have a guy like that, with such a good arm, go back down and be mentored properly by a guy he had had success with.

    I’m sick of the discussion, and I hope he leaves and gets a chance. But some of the stuff I read in here makes me have to jump in on this.

  154. J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    comet September 3rd, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Luis and others Mick will fade into obscurity he so richly deserves if ignored. Please ignore him.
    ///

    That’s what I do nine of 10 times.

  155. GregD September 3rd, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Hello everyone…..unfortunately I will be on the train during the first half of the game….. Please score some runs for me :)

  156. austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    I like Luis. Some, Mick you in particular, argue with everyone for what appears just to be disagreeable.

  157. Ys Guy September 3rd, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    i see randy is back in force.
    i thought he was boycotting this team because management didn’t field a competetive team.
    neither turned out to be true i guess

  158. Against All Odds September 3rd, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Yea it’s hard not to jump in on the Joba stuff since he has always been a hot button topic.

    It is frustrating that they never sent him back down to correct things. It’s almost as if they said well we weren’t happy with his starting record so screw it kid off to the pen smfh.

  159. J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 3:06 pm

    YsGuy, FTR I saw, reading backwards, your comment about your personal info, etc, when that discussion was in play here. Not to dredge that stuff up again, but yes, I completely understood your point and appreciate you trying to clarify.

  160. J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Odds, yup.

    Cutting out, good one, all.

  161. austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    JAP,

    No doubt the Yankees rushed Joba due to a need. That is not unique for teams. At some point, Joba has to have responsibility. He is arrested, out of shape, not cautious with his activities etc.

    I have a friend who played for a brief time in the majors. He told me there are many, many with fabulous physical ability but lack the mental or emotional requirements.

    For example, in his heyday, his slider was a fabulous pitch because they had to respect his fastball. While it is not 98 anymore it is still good. Yet, if anyone ever has two strikes, all Joba ever throws is the slider. Everyone knows it. Now, they don’t swing at it off the plate and hit it if it is over.

  162. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    “if cano is the biggest success the yankees have had developmentally , if he leaves, has development been a success ?”

    of course…..extremely so. All Tampa’s players leave after 6 years if they are any good…..does that mean they are failures? The Yankees have gotten the best years of Cano already…..if he leaves then nothing can take that away…..just like St Louis got the best of Pujols and let him walk

  163. J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    austinmac, yes he is at a low point and they just sit on a deteriorated slider.

    It does not change, however, the fact that he was never sent down again, after 43.1 IP between AA and AAA – where you turn “stuff” into a true arsenal and learn how to pitch instead of just getting by on raw talent.

    So where was he supposed to learn how to pitch, if not in the minors? He was a green talent, thrown to hungry wolves, and was never sent back after 2007.

    Considering his talent, regardless of the dissolution we see today, how is this defensible?

    Where was he going to learn how to pitch?

    Nova and Phelps have like 1,000 IP between them in the minors, and Nova was sent down twice to be tweaked.

    On. The. Yankees.

    Afternoon.

  164. RayVT September 3rd, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    I totally agree! Joba has all the tools, he just needs true mentoring! He was wasted in the BP with his potential. Sure Joba is imature but he isn’t the only one that is. Joba was put on a pedistal & left there alone to be knocked off. It isn’t his fault. Most of the Joba rules crap was Cashhead being an airhead & trying to be a baseball player w/o ever really knowing what he is talking about. What made Stick special is he played the game. Cash-No-Money now has an ego too big to admit mistakes. Even to say he was wrong about both Soriano’s would be a step in the right direction.

    I have taken up for the weak farm system for years saying the Yanks always have late draft picks, but look at some of the teams that have done great there w/o the low draft picks either. (Braves/StL/Tex/etc)

    I’d like to cash move on somewhere else & ST_U!

  165. Wave Your Hat September 3rd, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Joba will succeed somewhere, just not with the Yankees.

  166. axel September 3rd, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    mick is insightful.

  167. Ys Guy September 3rd, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    thanks jap, i was on vacation. i think almost all of us are on the same page when it comes to that situation, no matter where we stand on the current state of our team.

  168. RayVT September 3rd, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    The part that I never understood was why the Yanks gave up on Joba being a starter again period! He has a girth of talent. Are the Yanks going to give up on Pineda because he got hurt? The Yanks screwed Wang when he did. Hughes too somewhat.

    So much is made ove rthe Yankee BP, but for some reason the Yanks tend to rehab starters there when they really aren’t needed there. The young SP that need rehab or adjustments should go where they can do that instead of being in hi-intensity situations w/ the MLB team.

  169. J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    Joba was put on a pedistal & left there alone to be knocked off. It isn’t his fault.
    ////

    Damn, that’s eloquent, RayVT. And so true.

    I’m heading out.

    YsGuy, speaking of that creep: alert all. That “axel” person is Mike, who will turn from “talking baseball” to threats and violent commentary on a dime.

    Have a good day, all.

  170. austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    One possible bit of good farm system news is once the Yankees promoted Culver, he played and hit very well. It was only 55ABs, but he hit .355 and had an OPS well over .850. Can we have hope for him?

  171. austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    I would also have liked it if someone would have taught Joba, and for that matter most of the pitchers, to throw a fastball on the inner part of the plate. If a pitcher doesn’t, the outer half becomes the middle to the hitters.

  172. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    “Joba will succeed somewhere, just not with the Yankees.”

    at pitching or eating chicken wings?

  173. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    I think the odds of Hughes going elsewhere and succeeding are a lot higher than Joba.

  174. Wave Your Hat September 3rd, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    Joba needs time to mature and a lot of innings in which to learn how to pitch. He’ll go someplace else as a starter and he’ll mature and get the experience he didn’t get here. He has the stuff to succeed and I think he will.

  175. J. Alfred Prufrock September 3rd, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    austinmac,

    Running out but Culver looked pretty sound hitting RH down in Lakewood for DePaula start.

    Even though the opposite number was throwing the ball over the plate, I liked Culver in the box. He pulled a pitch over the left-field fence and hit another up the middle.

    Bichette, against the same crummy pitcher, looked entirely awful at the plate, and even fell over he swung so hard at one pitch.

    Maybe Culver, having abandoned LHB, can be a good RHB. He has a glove, range and decent arm for SS.

    BTW “huggers” – tomorrow night Bryan Mitchell, who looked great last outing in AA, vs. Noah Syndegaard, Mets’ live arm (has been known to hit triple digits) who jmills traded in the Dickey deal, I believe.

    I’ll be in Trenton for that one. Go Thunder!

    Good day, indeed.

  176. austinmac September 3rd, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    JAP,

    Thanks. I wish I could go to the game. Enjoy and, of course, report.

  177. Warning Track Power September 3rd, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    Wave Your Hat September 3rd, 2013 at 3:16 pm
    Joba will succeed somewhere, just not with the Yankees.
    —————————————————————————
    I think what you meant to say was, Joba will pitch somewhere next year, just not with
    the Yankee uniform on.

    Joba is his own worst enemy. Earlier this year to stated he has control of all 4 of his pitches, but the guy sure has not proven that when he takes the mound.

    The slider he threw to Adam Jones pretty much sums up his secondary pitches.
    Below average and when thrown for a strike, the pitch will be hit very hard and possibly very far.

  178. axel September 3rd, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    “YsGuy, speaking of that creep: alert all. That “axel” person is Mike, who will turn from “talking baseball” to threats and violent commentary on a dime.” You referred to me as someone else a week ago, now you are referring to me as another person. Please refrain from doing so. I am a Yankees fan; I do none of those things you have accused me of.

  179. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    “Joba needs time to mature and a lot of innings in which to learn how to pitch. He’ll go someplace else as a starter and he’ll mature and get the experience he didn’t get here. He has the stuff to succeed and I think he will.”

    there is a huge mental component to pitching….and also a big physical component apart from just being able to throws hard related to repeating a delivery. Joba never has repeaded well and with his new physique I don’t think that’s gotten any easier.

    He has great stuff in a vacuum…..but he has no idea how to use it and doesn’t show much aptitude for pitching and I dont think he’s balanced enough now to repeat his motion well enough to start……heck he can’t do it for 2 batters right now.

    I’m not saying he’s a lost cause…..but it would require a complete 180 from where he is now.

  180. hardwired7 September 3rd, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    “if he leaves”

    There should be absolutely no way they let Cano leave. Not only will end up being the greatest 2nd baseman in team history, but he’s on track to be one the top 5 in the history of the game, and I’m being generous to the other 4.

    If the Yanks want to continue to be THE marquee team in the sport, locking him up for the rest of his career is imperative.

    Other teams see all-time greats leave for greener pastures (read: a more lucrative contract), not the Yankees. Signing Cano is an absolute no-brainer.

  181. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 3:35 pm

    Randy

    Billy Connors was dumped? Is he who you’re referring to?

    16 of the last 17 years in the play-offs is a record of success not another team in baseball has.

    Heaven forbid if we were in last place.

  182. Wave Your Hat September 3rd, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    “He has great stuff in a vacuum…..but he has no idea how to use it and doesn’t show much aptitude for pitching and I dont think he’s balanced enough now to repeat his motion well enough to start”

    I’m not blaming the Yanks for this, because Joba has been given opportunities here. I think what he needs is a place where he can go out there every fifth day, focus on pitching and not on whether he’s going to lose his spot in the rotation if he gets pounded, which he will. He has the ability, and I think with enough innings he’ll learn how to pitch provided he matures generally. Who knows if he will mature but I hope he does and a lot of people do as they get older.

  183. jpb173 September 3rd, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    Posted lineup has Jeter at DH and Stewart catching. I’m disappointed the Yankees didn’t run out the same lineup as yesterday.

  184. blake September 3rd, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    “There should be absolutely no way they let Cano leave. Not only will end up being the greatest 2nd baseman in team history, but he’s on track to be one the top 5 in the history of the game, and I’m being generous to the other 4.

    If they were operating like the Yankees should then I absolutely agree with you….but if they are going to operate like the Hal chain restaurant efficiency first Yankees then they need to avoid paying Cano for his 30′s for the production he gave in his 20′s……because it almost certainly won’t be the same.

  185. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    ‘If they were operating like the Yankees should then I absolutely agree with you….but if they are going to operate like the Hal chain restaurant efficiency first Yankees then they need to avoid paying Cano for his 30?s for the production he gave in his 20?s”

    blake-

    i like that phrase: “the Hal chain restaurant efficiency first Yankees”.

    i may use that on occasion giving full credit of course.

  186. randy l. September 3rd, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    “Billy Connors was dumped? Is he who you’re referring to?”

    i think you need to go read your yankee history.

    the tampa faction rivaled the NY faction in numbers and power.

    when george was alive and healthy, because he was in tampa, the tampa faction had his ear.

    neil allen was hired by the tampa faction which is precisely why when cashman got control he got rid of allen even though allen was the one who taught wang the sinker.

    how many times this kind of scenario played out with cashman getting rid of real baseball people because he thought they were loyal to the tampa faction remains open to conjecture, but i think we’re talking probably 15-20 people.

    in allen’s case, he’s been helping create the rays pitching ever since. tony cloninger was another tampa faction guy who cashman cut loose to become a pitching coach and long time advisor with the red sox . cloninger was with the yankees for over a decade.

  187. RhapsodyInBlue September 3rd, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    Oh your buddy Neil who got you access.

    Mick said you had an axe to grind.

    Connors was worthless.

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