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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News


In case you missed it: Minor league injury updates

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 10, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

Rob Segedin

I posted this yesterday, and literally within seconds, the Yankees sent the email announcing Joe Girardi had re-signed. So, naturally, it was pretty easy to miss. Just in case you missed it — and just in case you’re one of those who closely follows the minor league system — here are a few updates on guys who were hurt last season.

Remember a little less than a year ago, when Alex Rodriguez found out he needed hip surgery? Remember the doctor explaining that the injury stemmed from a congenital condition, a misshaped bone that led to a series of other problems?

Well Rodriguez wasn’t alone with that condition.

This year, the Yankees had three minor league players shutdown with similar injuries. First-rounder Ty Hensley, Double-A third baseman Rob Segedin (that’s him in the picture), and High-A utility man Anderson Feliz each had similar problems that required surgery, according to vice president of baseball operations Mark Newman.

“We had three this year,” Newman said. “We’d had none in our history.”

Newman said the discovery of the condition in so many young Yankees had nothing to do with Rodriguez — the Yankees weren’t suddenly checking everyone for misshapen hips because of what happened to A-Rod — but doctors simply might be finding it more often these days.

“We just happened to have three guys with it,” Newman said.

Hensley was throwing during instructional league and should be ready for spring training. Segedin raked for about a month in Double-A — .338/.390/.606 through April 24 — before being shut down for the operation. Feliz played into June before having the surgery. The Yankees have long liked Feliz’s tool set, but Newman said he’s had a series of groin and hamstring problems that have impacted his ability to stay on the field and move forward.

“The idea is that this (surgery) will alleviate that,” Newman said.

Manuel Banuelos• After having Tommy John surgery last year, Manny Banuelos did not pitch in an actual game this season. He did, however, pitch at the minor league complex and in instructional league. Newman said he was reaching 92-94 mph with a good changeup and getting breaking balls over the plate. He is expected to be ready this spring, but he will not pitch at all this winter. “He pitched enough,” Newman said. “He’s been throwing for 14, 15 months. He’s going home to rest.”

• Michael Pineda is also going home with no plans for winter ball. He was reaching 94-96 mph with his fastball. “We’ll see how he comes back, but I think he’s healthy,” Newman said. “I thought he was fine. There might be a little bit of (rust) in spring training early in the year, but he’s got a history of throwing strikes.”

• Jose Ramirez was shut down at the end of the year because of an oblique problem, but he was throwing again in instructional league. He’s healthy again.

• Considered the team’s top relief prospect when the season started, Mark Montgomery struggled in Triple-A this season, while also battling a shoulder injury (early) and a back injury (late). Newman said the team got an MRI of Montgomery’s shoulder twice during the year, and they’re convinced it’s healthy. “I think his back was bothering him,” Newman said. “He changed his workout program last offseason, experimented with a new program, and that may have been part of it. I don’t know. You can’t jump to that conclusion, but it impacted his control more than anything. He still struck people out a lot this year, just walked too many.”

ph_571761• Slade Heathcott had relatively minor knee surgery, just a scope and a cleanup. He missed the last few weeks of the Double-A season, but he’s expected to be fully healthy for spring training.

• Second baseman Corban Joseph, who made a few big league cameos this season, had shoulder surgery and didn’t play beyond May 31. Newman said Joseph was trying to “muscle through” the season but had ultimately needed the surgery. He’s throwing and rehabbing now.

• This year’s second-round pick, Gosuke Katoh, played through instructional league last month but has what Newman labeled a sprained finger. It’s considered a very minor issue. Katoh had a really nice debut.

• Another high pick from this year, first-rounder Aaron Judge, missed the year with a quadriceps injury. Newman labeled the Yankees treatment as more precautionary than anything. “He’s working out,” Newman said. “He had a quad pull. He wasn’t going to get any games, so we’ve just taken our time to make sure it’s completely healed by spring training.”

Associated Press photos

 
 

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106 Responses to “In case you missed it: Minor league injury updates”

  1. Warning Track Power October 10th, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    I am just now reading that Cervelli came clean to his PED use
    2 days ago.
    WOW!!!

    Nobody is talking about this or am I 2 day too late???

  2. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    Chad-

    I hope you learned your lesson and scanned for breaking news 1st this time ?

    ;)

  3. blake October 10th, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    I think probably just nobody cares….I didn’t know that though

  4. blake October 10th, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    MTU,
    I asked you an important question at the end of the last thread

  5. Warning Track Power October 10th, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    blake October 10th, 2013 at 6:22 pm
    I think probably just nobody cares….I didn’t know that though
    ———————————————–
    If Cervelli was earning tens of millions of dollars, an all-star player, MVP caliber, you can bet the media would care a lot.

  6. tomingeorgia October 10th, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    blake,
    The Pioneer Woman is awesome.

  7. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    Blake-

    I have not. Is she from Utah ?

    Out this way the specialty is something called Dutch Oven cooking.

    I have never been fortunate enough to taste any made that way but I am told it’s incredible.

    Maybe one day.

    :)

  8. blake October 10th, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    I have not. Is she from Utah ?”

    I dunno where she’s from but that Hal knows how to cook

  9. blake October 10th, 2013 at 6:28 pm

    I knew Chef Tom would know the Pioneer woman

  10. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    But I did score some delicious smoked Salmon form my hiking buddy.

    The salmon came direct from the Kenai River in Alaska.

    He does a good job with smoking it. It’s delicious.

    I traded him a photo for it.

    :)

  11. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    I think I got the better end of the deal.

    ;)

  12. tomingeorgia October 10th, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    Look her up, MTU, she’s got all kinds of things, some easy and some tedious, but all mostly good stuff.

  13. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    I wonder whatever happened to that Manning dude ?

    He seemed to know what he was doing when it came to recipes.

  14. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    Tom-

    I prefer the consuming to the actual work of cooking.

    :)

  15. blake October 10th, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    My favorite thing she makes and it’s probably the easiest is “the bread”

  16. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    I was amazed to find out recently that we have wild Hops growing all around.

    I’ve walked right past them many times and didn’t even know it until someone pointed them out.

    Too bad I am not into home brewing.

    I know some of the locals must be using them.

  17. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    Randy not everything can be quantified precisely.”

    doreen-

    no one who’s using the injury excuse is even trying to go as far as they can in what they can quantify.

    they are just kicking the can down the road throwing out the injury excuse.

    i don’t buy it for a second. i say only about 6-7 WAR was lost due to injuries.
    i’d say they lost less pitching WAR than an average team loses each year.

    when you add up lost offensive WAR of 6-7 games and add pitching WAR they gained above an average team which i’d say was +2

    that means they lost maybe 4-5 games above and beyond what was expected.

    4-5 games doesn’t get them in the playoffs.

    therefore team meetings should be based on that the yankees missed the playoffs because they weren’t good enough, and not that they missed because of injuries.

    the meetings would be very different depending on which view the yankees take when they sit down to plan for the next season.

  18. mick October 10th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    the people who came out and said the yankees were awesome have little to say.
    =============================
    Do you get satisfaction mocking others?
    Those who thought the Yanks would do well were thinking in terms of a healthy team.
    Ask them now how they will do next year…
    At least pay attention to what people say and stop trying to antagonize with your disingenuous posts.

    As far as less pushback goes….wait till the next controversial move takes place.

  19. blake October 10th, 2013 at 6:47 pm

    MTU isn’t into home brewing…..only home distilling

  20. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    Blake-

    Only if the spirits move me.

    :)

  21. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 6:56 pm

    Blake-

    Did you catch Sonny Gray’s hook the last time out ?

    Koufax-like.

    Like rolling off a table at the end.

  22. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    And the 95 mph heat isn’t too bad either.

    ;)

  23. Hankflorida October 10th, 2013 at 6:58 pm

    I would like to to further comment on the Yankee power outage of this year of 144 home runs compared to 245 last year. Adding Granderson, Text , Soriano and Reynolds for a whole year would probably have added enough round trippers to get them into the playoffs. So having all these players with Cano next year would probably mean that the amount of runs scored would be sufficient if the pitching holds up. If Cano and Granderson leave, the Yankees would have to replace 70 long balls, and an outfield of Suzuki, Gardener, Almonte and Welles will not hack it.

  24. mick October 10th, 2013 at 6:59 pm

    From Chad’s post:

    Remember a little less than a year ago, when Alex Rodriguez found out he needed hip surgery? Remember the doctor explaining that the injury stemmed from a congenital condition, a misshaped bone that led to a series of other problems?

    Well Rodriguez wasn’t alone with that condition.

    This year, the Yankees had three minor league players shutdown with similar injuries. First-rounder Ty Hensley, Double-A third baseman Rob Segedin (that’s him in the picture), and High-A utility man Anderson Feliz each had similar problems that required surgery, according to vice president of baseball operations Mark Newman.

    “We had three this year,” Newman said. “We’d had none in our history.”

    Newman said the discovery of the condition in so many young Yankees had nothing to do with Rodriguez — the Yankees weren’t suddenly checking everyone for misshapen hips because of what happened to A-Rod — but doctors simply might be finding it more often these days.

    “We just happened to have three guys with it,” Newman said.
    ========================================
    Maybe these injuries were caused by the same reason that others have had hip injuries…and you know what that could be.

    Maybe they should also sue their doctors or Dr Ahmad for misdiagnosis or failure to inform correctly.

  25. mick October 10th, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    Come to think of it, maybe all or most of the injuries this year are results of things other than natural causes, with the exception of Granderson getting hit twice.

    I guess these injuries are also the fault of the FO….blame Levine.

  26. Wang IS Taiwan October 10th, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    Yeah, right. Three of “these kinds of injuries” this year just like Alex’s…hmm. Like they all have misshapen hips and end up the same year playing for the same team having the same injury.

    I guess they think fans are total idiots.

  27. Wang IS Taiwan October 10th, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    Who referenced the Pioneer Woman? Wow — check out her website to get your mouth watering!

  28. Doreen October 10th, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    Randy,

    Right. They had a healthy CC and a healthy Kuroda. But, Pettitte was on the DL, Nova was on the DL and Phelps was on the DL. Nuno wasa good replacement for Oettitte, but then he went on the D, and was not available as a replacement. Pineda never got off the DL so he was not available as a replacement. So they had to continue to use a sucky unconfident Phil Hughes and an exhausted Kuroda, and a lost CC. Is there a measurement for that? Logan went on the DL and also Dave Robertson. So. I would argue that their pitching staff was indeed affected by unhip urges, which compounded the I effectiveness and underperformance of pitchers, and because the injuries went down a level, they could not replace or rest the ineffective pitchers.

    So, no, they didn’t lose a pitcher the quality if Buccholz. But I would not go so far as to say the Yankees had a healthy pitching staff.

    You don’t want to acknowledge that they were hit hard by injuries because there were other things gong on that you didn’t like. I’m saying that everything that could go wrong this year did. Perhaps some was avoidable. Some was not, and some stuff was not expected at all.

    I argue that the last wave if injuries that took down Gardner, Logan and ARod, and also hampered Soriano, took whatever fight was left. Then CC at the very end, but that was after the fact and of negligible effect since he wasn’t pitching well at all.

    They won 85 games. I don’t think you’d have to look too hard to find 7 games between your WAR and CC pitching even close to normal and Phil Hughes pitching like he was a free agent working for a new contract. So, it is a combination of the injuries and other factors that kept them from the post season.

    And I am not sold on WAR. TBC.

  29. Doreen October 10th, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Unhip urges =injuries!!!! iPad

  30. blake October 10th, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    Did you catch Sonny Gray’s hook the last time out ?”

    Yes….nasty….the As just get these guys from somewhere

  31. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    “But to want to find a way to say that the team was not as effected by injuries as it looked? That does a disservice to the players on the field.”

    doreen-

    to me it seems simple to take granderson for example and ask yourself how much WAR was lost due to injury.

    in 2012 granderson had a 2.13 WAR
    in 2013 he had a 1.4 WAR

    that’s a loss of 1.16 WAR for granderson.
    so one game was lost because of injuries.

    if you don’t believe it, then how many games do you think the yankees lost because granderson wasn’t there?

  32. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    Blake-

    Open-mindedness and good scouting.

    Didn’t hurt that he was an early pick.

    We’ll have our chance this year.

  33. blake October 10th, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    Sonny Gray: 1st round (18th overall). Yet another young stud the Yankees never had a chance at

  34. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Blake-

    we pick at 18 this yr.

    ;)

  35. blake October 10th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    MTU,
    The thing is that the smart teams make those early picks count….. That has to be the Yankees too if they want to run at a lower payroll…..can’t whiff on first rounders drafting Dante Bichette jrs anymore

  36. blake October 10th, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    “we pick at 18 this yr.”

    If they keep it

  37. blake October 10th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    These playoffs have been really good so far even though the yanks aren’t in there…..the best matchup for baseball would be Tigers/Sox…..then Dodgers/ Sox or Tigers either one ……

  38. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    “But, Pettitte was on the DL,”

    doreen -

    before i read the rest of your post i have to stop right there with this comment.

    pettitte started 30 games out of a possible 33. that’s phenomenal. it’s above league average.

    i think our difference here is because you’re thinking a guy had bad luck when he had great luck.

    we’re seeing someone like pettitte in totally opposite ways.

    pettitte was unusually healthy in 2013.

    especially for 41

  39. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    Blake-

    I think they will.

  40. Against All Odds October 10th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    I guess these injuries are also the fault of the FO….blame Levine.

    ——————–

    If we are being truthful though the team was carrying a high amount of risk entering the yr. Now did anyone predict every starter outside of Cano and Ichiro would miss significant time or that CC would regress no but they were playing with fire this season.

  41. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    Randy-

    I doubt anyone disagrees that the Yankees need change.

    It might just be a matter of the degree required to assure success.

    You favor a more radical change. Others might think that incremental changes are enough.

    I don’t see the Yankees doing anything that resembles radical.

    Evolution rather than Revolution is likely to be the Yankee way.

    Only time will tell if that is sufficient.

    You know how I feel about many of these things.

    Just sayin’.

    ;)

  42. Doreen October 10th, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    Randy,

    I think it is too simplistic to look at this situation as one player at a time. I am convinced that there must be a geometric effect of having multiple, simultaneous, long-term injuries to players, and to the players you most counted on for production to boot. A cumulative effect, so to speak.

    It’s obvious to me that if you are missing one player, and then he comes back and you lse another player is different from losing one player and then losing another player and then losing another player before anyone off them makes it back, and replacing them with negative players in many cases.

    You lose Granderson’s WAR, but then don’t you also have to figure in the WAR of the replacement player somehow? Weren’t the Yankees hurt by playing guys who were never supposed to play as much as they were ?

    I mean they had lolibrigida out there!!

    I think it’s not as easy to figure as you are making it seem. And this goes back to my theory that people can use numbers to cloud an issue as well as to clear it up.

    I don’t think the Yankees are insane to look at injuries as one of the reasons they didn’t make the playoffs.

  43. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    mtu-

    heres the weird thing to me.

    brian cashman is the darling of the yankee sabermetric crowd 6-7 years ago.

    he quietly hires a sabermetric back room to work on all kinds of metrics.

    he has a reputation as a gm who is very much into the new baseball.

    he has all the new school folks excited.

    but now when the team fails, he goes old school and says it feels like injuries.

    cashman quantifies everything else.

    why not now?

  44. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Doreen-

    It was definitely a factor. Perhaps a big factor.

    But certainly not the sole factor.

    And I don’t think that’s what you are saying.

    It was multiple things including bad decision-making and a lack of ML-ready talent.

    The injuries caused a lot of scrambling. Some people think they should have been expecting more of them and have been better prepared to meet them.

    The answer is definitely multi-factorial in nature as far as I’m concerned.

    Serious analysis should take place. Some are wondering if it is.

    I remain skeptical because that is my nature. To question.

  45. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    “And this goes back to my theory that people can use numbers to cloud an issue as well as to clear it up.”

    doreen-

    you not even looking at basic numbers.

    pettitte.

    was he playing or was he injured?
    30-33 starts. he missed three.
    can we agree on one player here to try to get some basis of understanding ?

    my position is that the yankees did as well as they did because he was injured less than was expected.

    your position seems to be the that pettitte was injured and the yankees lost some games because of it.i don’t think that’s the case.

  46. Doreen October 10th, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    Randy, my point was the staff did not escape unscathed. But Pettitte also went through a month of Ineffectiveness when he got back. And could no longer pitch 7 inning or 8, but rather, 5- plus or 6 generally. So, yeah, he made his starts.

    You saw the games. Every game was like a trip to the dentist. What little offense they started the year with was gone from May to the end of July. Literally gone. On the DL.

    The bullpen this year was incredibly taxed because 2 pitchers who normally went 7 and in CC’s case sometimes 8, got no rest, no relief for the relief squad.

    I’m saying that all this stuff built up and compounded how can you use a stat that measures singular player, singular performance, when it was overlapping occurrences.

  47. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    Randy-

    In my response to Doreen I stated my position on that.

    That the Yankees need to do a serious and thorough analysis of what factors lead to their failure last year.

    I hope that is exactly what they are doing. If not, it is what they should be doing IMO.

    So, I remain skeptical but we’ll just have to see what transpires.

    ;)

  48. Doreen October 10th, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    I guess randy what I’m trying to say us that WAR isn’t telling the whole story.

  49. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    I do not know enough about WAR to intelligently debate it’s use in this context.

    I confess ignorance.

    JF or LGY would be better prepared to do so.

    Perhaps if they are around they can comment ?

  50. GregD October 10th, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    Wow…..finally found out what happened to Jose Ramirez…….that was like a State Secret……..

  51. Doreen October 10th, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Randy I am also saying here that if there isn’t there needs to be a way to quantify multiple players missing time who were counted on for their production.

    The pitching, as inconsistent as it ended up being, was the reason the did as well as they did. Yes, Pettitte making 30 of a projected 33 to 35 starts was overall good.

    I am not saying they only missed the playoffs because of injuries, but that they played a huge part in why, because of the compoundedness of number, simultaneousness, severity and longevity. And I believe that it is not as easy to quantify these particular circumstances.

    Hughes made all his starts. This was not good. Or lucky, and has a kot to do with the number of losses they suffered If Nuno or phelps was healthy, they would have pitched and perhaps they win a game or two or three, who knows. So those injuries count too. Would you agree to that? That not all starts are created equal to begin with?

  52. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    mtu-

    i’m in a weird position using metrics when it’s not something i’m fluent in.
    but i think there’s areal misconception on how important any one player is.

    take teixeira. i get the feeling the average fan thinks 4-5 games are lost with a guy like him.
    it’s not the case.

    teixeira has trended down to a 2 game WAR.

    now in my limited understanding of WAR, i think this mean is teixeira doesn’t play the whole year and a good triple a replacement player comes up to replace him, the yankees would lose 2 games in the standings.

    now if i’m wrong someone educate me on what a replacement player is.

    but here’s the problem. when the yankees got injured they seemed to replace injured players with WORSE than replacement value players.
    this would be almonte,adams, boesch, murphy, etc

  53. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    I hope Gray is sharp tonight from the get go.

    I’d expect the Tiger hitters to try to get to him early.

    By the way, There were rumors out earlier on the blog that the Tigers might be looking to trade Scherzer in the OS because he is 1 yr. removed from FA.

    Are they kidding ?

    Trade him ?

    He’s their best Pitcher.

    They can’t afford him ?

    Wow. If that’s true.

  54. luis October 10th, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    Good evening everyone,

    Doreen, Blake and Chip,

    Sorry for the belated response ;) Yes, you would like to have a catcher that is good on both ends of the field…But if you don’t have it, you should go for the offensive side first IMO…Yogi Berra was a lousy catcher with a big stick that became very good defensively later on his career… What I am trying to say is that if you have a younger, less experienced catcher but with more offensive upside, you go with him rather than with a player like Stewart ( who has no upside )… What concerns me is that Joe will give preeminence to defense over offense… It’s not only a big departure of the Yankee way ( we have always been very strong on our central line C and CF )…But history tells us is the less successful as well… In all sports, offensive clubs tend to be more successful than defensive oriented ones.

    As I said yesterday…They seem content about what they did this season, to the point that we won’t see a sorely needed change of approach…There is nothing worse that an organization incapable of self critiquing… And this seems to be the case and will surely lead to more dissapointments.

  55. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    Greg-

    I compared it to solving the riddle of the Sphinx.

    :)

  56. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    “But Pettitte also went through a month of Ineffectiveness when he got back”

    doreeen-

    pettitte had an incredible year.

    he was injured less than one would expect.

    but enough on it.

    we are looking at someone as basic as pettitte and see a different story.
    no sense continuing.

  57. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Randy-

    “The Replacement Level Yankees blog” has all you could want to know about WAR.

    I just haven’t fully educated myself.

    CB used to spend some time there.

    Hope that helps.

    ;)

  58. luis October 10th, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    Guys,

    We beat our Pythagorean projection by 7 games (78)…In no small part by our very hot playing early in the season…Even though the stats pointed out to a much weaker team…Eventually the team came back to earth…Without that hot month and half we might have ended up winning 70-71 games…Which means that even with everyone healthy, we might have ended up winning the same amount of games and still miss the PS.

    The team just wasn’t good enough…Poor roster construction with too many health concerns due to age or previous injury history…No depth and no MLB ready players down on the farm..FTR, this was a process that took years to take place… The fact that they can’t aknowledge this is very concerning

  59. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    thanks mtu

    i’ll check it out

  60. Pat M. October 10th, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    I have only a moment but I want to address the debate that esteem posters Tin Cup & Doreen are presenting…..I’m coming around somewhat to the WAR theory to a degree, however who I clearly have faith in are the boys in Vegas. Before camp opened they had the Yanks at 89 wins on the over / under investment line. Once Granderson and Texeria went down that line dropped to 84 wins. I played them on the overs and it took then sweeping Houston to cover the bet. I always thought that the Yanks had a razor thin line of error in order to make the playoffs and I also went on the record saying that 92 wins would win the AL East ( I was wrong ) . But the WC could be had for 88-90 wins. 2013 Yanks were the most flawed ballclub since 1992 and it’s only going to get worse. Their last real shot was last October and that window has closed. Should have moved Cano and Granderson last winter. Also looks like I’ll be hanging out with Nick in SF for awhile…..

  61. luis October 10th, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    Hey Pat….Please say hi to Nick from my part if you will

  62. blake October 10th, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    There are several different calculations of WAR as well and from what I can tell the biggest difference is how they calculate the defensive aspect. Fangraphs (fWAR) uses UZR I believe for example ….other ones use different defensive metrics.

    WAR is a cool idea to try and boil a player down to one number…..and I like it as a guide especially if I don’t get to see a guy play a lot……but it doesn’t tell the whole story yet and I think certain players are overvalued by it and others undervalued.

  63. pat October 10th, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    HardballTalk
    Manny Machado opts to have surgery on knee ligament http://wp.me/p14QSL-260L

  64. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    I’d like to discuss the Pioneer Woman… great food, Stepford-like delivery. Solid show. Makes me giggle.

  65. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2013 at 8:36 pm

    I wish Robert Irvine had a job with the Yankees.

  66. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2013 at 8:41 pm

    1. Just got in but had ESPN radio on in my car. I thought the broadcaster sounded like Michael Kay but I wasn’t sure because some of the guys do sound alike. Then all of a sudden I heard the broadcaster start to describe the uniforms, including the embroidery on the uniforms and caps and I knew it had to be him!!!! And yes, it was, ha ha! I learned about the “interlocking NY on the cap” at Kay’s knee. :lol:

    So it’s Kay and Aaron Bleepin’ Boone. Something made me feel really “at home” listening to them call the game.

    2. In terms of the grass always being greener – one stat they quoted as that Austin Jackson has Kd 11 times in this series. Just sayin’

    3. I really like the name “Sonny Gray”. I love that he’s a rook. Reminds me of the days when we had young’uns in the rotation.

    4. It’s official. GO A’S!!!

    :)

  67. YanksPats October 10th, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    How does anyone tolerate Don Orsillo?

  68. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 8:44 pm

    “however who I clearly have faith in are the boys in Vegas. Before camp opened they had the Yanks at 89 wins on the over / under investment line. Once Granderson and Texeria went down that line dropped to 84 wins. ”

    patm-

    5 game drop is about what i would think intuitively or from WAR.

    jeter is the one who’s open to debate. should we have expected him to miss almost a whole season.
    not likely. but i really do not see this whole plethora of injuries to the yankees.they were extremely healthy in the pitching department compared to other teams.

  69. Tar October 10th, 2013 at 8:54 pm

    Funny thing is… I didn’t need WAR or Vegas to have a pretty good idea that last years team was not very good. I just looked at the catching position and that spoke volumes for me.

    As Pat M said there was a razor thin line for them to make it in.

    The fact that they got as close as they did, is a testament to Alex, Sori and Andy– way more than it is Cashman, Levine or Girardi.

  70. Tar October 10th, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    That last drive was the Jints I know. Can we play a little D now?

  71. blake October 10th, 2013 at 8:58 pm

    Shame Spencer says:
    October 10, 2013 at 8:33 pm
    I’d like to discuss the Pioneer Woman… great food, Stepford-like delivery. Solid show. Makes me giggle.

    She has a show? I’ve just seen her website ….I don’t know anything about her other than I like her food

  72. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 9:01 pm

    Wow.

    Sonny Gray locking horns w one the best Pitchers in baseball and holding his own.

    I hope he keeps it up.

    Kid seems to have Mojo.

    Randy-

    You’re welcome. I hope it answers some of your questions.

  73. Tar October 10th, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    Pioneer Woman is no Giada.

    If Rich is out there……. that will surely bring him out.

  74. YanksPats October 10th, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    The fact that they got as close as they did, is a testament to Alicks, Sori and Andy– way more than it is Cashman, Levine or Girardi.

  75. YanksPats October 10th, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    What’s the purpose of winning tonight against the Bears?

    Keep losing and have a chance to draft Jadeveon Clowney.

    Jacksonville should take a QB with the #1 pick.

  76. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    Sh*t !

    :(

  77. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    She has a show?

    ——————

    Yes! It’s called Pioneer Woman lol.. she does some good stuff, but Bobby Flay’s show about grilling and smoking things might be more your style. He uses a big green egg on that one.

  78. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    As good as Gray’s stuff is he still needs a 3rd pitch.

  79. MTU October 10th, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    Gray has dug himself a hole.

  80. YanksPats October 10th, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    TBS showed a graphic for the NLCS and for Games 5, 6, 7 there was an asterisk for If Necessary.

    However, at the bottom of the screen, it said “* IH NGEGUUCTY

  81. Doreen October 10th, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    Randy,

    Not fair. The problem is I can’t look at this as either the injuries or other factors. They’re combined in my mind, one having an effect on the other, so they colors my opinions and my statements.

    I just did some reading on WAR. There are three sources, fangraphs, baseball prospectus and baseball-reference.com, and all three weight different aspects of WAR differently. Sometimes their numbers are in wide disagreement. In addition, what I read says it is more difficult to be accurate on pitchers’ WAR.

    I think focusing on the Yankees’ pitching is a red herring. Their pitching was their strength and carried them through big chunks of the season. I don’t think anyone would argue otherwise.

    The injuries that hurt the Yankees most were on the offensive side. Since WAR is inexact (because some of the source material is inexact), you can’t definitively say they only lost 4 to 5 games to injury. I think maybe you can start there. But it seems thst 6 to 7 games might fall within a margin of error, bringing them to 91 or 92 wins.

    Did you and add up,all,the WAR for every player, all 56 of them? Or did you find a site that did that? Using each of the three WAR sources? That might be fun to do one day when im looking for something to do. :)

    But my basic question still stands, and that is would the circumstances that occurred, injury-wise, for the Yankees this year affect the way you can calculate team WAR? And it does seem to me that as encompassing as WAR is, there really are things that can’t be quantified.

    It’s impossible to,learn WAR in one night. I know what it’s attempting to do, but in the little I read so far, they talk about the formulas changing, the data collected and included changing. It would not be possible for me to sit down and figure out someone’s WAR, the way you can figure out his OPS or even BABIP. You have to trust the three sources. And then you have to decide which one you deem most accurate when they disagree, and that is subjective.

    It is a good, but imperfect way to make comparisons. It’s one more tool, but not exact.

  82. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    “How does anyone tolerate Don Orsillo?”

    He is HORRENDOUS to listen to! I have to listen to him every time the Yanks play the Sux!!! I was on the phone so had the sound down when Cabrera hit his homer, but if Orsillo was true to form, he sounded like he was going to cry, and the excitement in his voice caused you to think it was the last call of the last game of the World Series.

    :evil:

  83. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    doreen-

    i think the concept of WAR gives us a rough idea on how to quantify the amount of wins that were lost due to injury.

    i of course don’t think it’s exact. was there a chance without injuries that the yankees could have made the playoffs?

    of course. i’d say they were only 50/50 to begin with if no one was injured.
    i think normal expected injuries would have taken them down to maybe ten percent chance of making the playoffs.

    granderson, teixeira, and jeter took them down to 5% chance or so.

    we’re talking guestimates and probabilities here. that’s why pat m and nick in sf bet. there’s odds and if you get a hunch or inside info you can win.

    we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. i just don’t think it was bad luck injuries that derailed them. they affected them, but they didn’t by themselves take the yankees down. they just simply had too many players who weren’t that good.

  84. mick October 10th, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    WAR, what is it good for?
    Absolutely nuthin’

  85. blake October 10th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    -”Yes! It’s called Pioneer Woman lol.. she does some good stuff, but Bobby Flay’s show about grilling and smoking things might be more your style. He uses a big green egg on that one.”

    Yea he’s good….I’m tryin to branch out a big though. I’ll have to find her show….what channel?

  86. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    “Do you get satisfaction mocking others?
    Those who thought the Yanks would do well were thinking in terms of a healthy team.
    Ask them now how they will do next year…
    At least pay attention to what people say and stop trying to antagonize with your disingenuous posts.

    As far as less pushback goes….wait till the next controversial move takes place.”

    mick – God bless you for always cutting to the chase with this stuff.

    *************

    Doreen, I don’t know why you even bother. If all of the real experts in the game were referencing the Yankees uncanny injuries throughout the season and calling Joe a candidate for MOY for being able to keep the Yankees above water for the entire season, it doesn’t take a lot of genius to realize that the rotation didn’t come through the way it was expected to and that if it did, the Yankees would have easily been in the postseason. Mo blew an unprecedented number of games in a row, also.

    Because one nonstop drone continues to take up massive amounts of cyberspace in an attempt to convince the world that the opposite is true (even YF called him on his faulty use of WAR) doesn’t change the reality.

    I also agree with those who feel that if the Yanks got that far, it would have been one and out.

    **************

    Melvin’s been brave to stay with Gray. So far it’s paid off.

  87. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    VERLANDER IS PITCHING A NO HITTER. Wish I had noticed it a little sooner…

  88. Doreen October 10th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    Randy,

    Then we tend to agree. I have been saying that it was a combination of factors.

    I guess the difference might be that I think the injuries pushed the negative, so to speak. They would not have had zero injuries. How much did the “more than expected injuries” factor in, or were they hanging by a thread as soon as you figure in the “average” amount of injuries?

    They certainly did not leave any margin for error.

  89. mick October 10th, 2013 at 9:52 pm

    Doreen, I don’t know why you even bother.
    =====================
    She must have a crush on him.

  90. mick October 10th, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    VERLANDER IS PITCHING A NO HITTER.
    ========================
    Why jinx him?
    We want Tigers-Sox.
    Good theater.

  91. Shame Spencer October 10th, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    blake – Food Network.

  92. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    mick – I thought we wanted A’s-Sux!

  93. mick October 10th, 2013 at 9:55 pm

    Because one nonstop drone continues to take up massive amounts of cyberspace in an attempt to convince the world that the opposite is true (even YF called him on his faulty use of WAR) doesn’t change the reality.
    =============================
    He latches onto something and won’t let go.
    Boring……

  94. mick October 10th, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    trish-nah.
    Sox-Tigers.
    Cards-LA
    LA-Sox
    LA

  95. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    mick – I’m down with it. As long as the last team standing doesn’t come from fenway, it’s all good.

  96. Tar October 10th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    For the record while I do not agree totally agree with randy’s use of WAR, I do however totally agree with his hypothesis. The Yankees were not a good, post-season worthy team even if they had no injuries.

    So it’s not just one…

  97. mick October 10th, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    trish-have to gamble on sox for the negative payoff.
    of course they could win it all and will be favored.

  98. mick October 10th, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    The Yankees were not a good, post-season worthy team even if they had no injuries.
    ==========
    Wrong!

  99. trisha - true pinstriped blue October 10th, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    Tar – here’s the difference. You don’t feel the need to vomit it day in and day out on the forum. As you pointed out several days ago, nobody is going to be changing any minds at this point so why not just look to the future.

  100. blake October 10th, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    Shame,
    Thanks

    Must say Id like to see a no no tonight

  101. mick October 10th, 2013 at 10:11 pm

    The pretenders are gone.
    No, not the blog members.
    Pirates, A’s, Braves and TB.
    Only contenders left…

  102. blake October 10th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    Verlander got squeezed a little on that walk….borderline pitches

  103. blake October 10th, 2013 at 10:17 pm

    @Joba_62: Funny how people can talk about baseball but have never played n the big leagues Pretty easy sitting behind their keyboard and couch #truth

    Weak sauce Jobber

  104. blake October 10th, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    Perfecto gone but no no still intact

  105. Tar October 10th, 2013 at 10:19 pm

    Trish

    I have not spent much time on the blog lately, but I have noticed a running commentary between Randy and Doreen.

    Part of the beauty, and no doubt the beast, of this format is we don’t get to decide what others talk about.

    If you are over it, maybe just ignoring it would be better.

    I do stand by what I said the other day..everybody’s mind is made up. I’m ok with people having different perspectives than I do, even if they are wrong :twisted:

  106. randy l. October 10th, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    tar-

    doreen and i are friends . we’re talking baseball. we’re both learning from the debate.

    this other thing i’m talking about with what happened with pat m last last is way beyond disagreeing about baseball .


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