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A New York Yankees blog by Chad Jennings and the staff of The Journal News

Minor league notes: Rule 5, Heathcott, Whitley, Campos, Refsnyder

Posted by: Chad Jennings - Posted in Misc on Oct 11, 2013 Print This Post Print This Post | Email This Post Email This Post

I posted about some of the Yankees minor league injuries yesterday. Here are a few leftover minor league notes from my conversation with vice president of baseball operations Mark Newman.

Slade Heathcott, Ronnier Mustelier• Simplistic way of looking at Rule 5 eligibility for this winter: Anyone drafted in 2009 or earlier (Slade Heathcott, Shane Greene and Bryan Mitchell stand out), and college players drafted in 2010 (Tommy Kahnle, Danny Burawa, Chase Whitley). International signees are harder to figure out. Newman said that neither Ronnier Mustelier nor Adonis Garcia needs to be protected, but he specifically said that Gary Sanchez is eligible this winter, meaning he’ll need to be protected.

• Mentioning Heathcott and Mustelier in the same paragraph seemed like a good excuse to pull out the spring training picture of their outfield collision.

• Speaking of Heathcott, his overall Double-A numbers didn’t look like much this season (.261/.327/.411), but the Yankees came away happy with his performance because they saw obvious improvement. Heathcott hit .306/.342/.509 in the month of July, and he was hitting .310/.444/.552 before landing on the disabled list in August. “His second half was good,” Newman said. “And by the metrics we use, he improved over the course of the season. He needs at-bats, and he needs some time.”

• Whitley was a career reliever before being moved into the Triple-A rotation late this season. He’d just pitched 17.1 scoreless innings of relief in the month of July, and went on to make five August starts with a 1.64 ERA. It’s not out of the question that Whitley will continue to work as a starter in the future. “He’s got a great changeup, so it was, let’s see if he can do this,” Newman said. “His velocity picked up over the last two years, he’s always had a very good changeup, we’re working on his breaking ball. We had some innings in the rotation, and he’s got starter stuff, so he may get a look in that way in the future.”

This is a 2013 photo of Shane Greene of the New York Yankees baseball team. This image reflects the Yankees' spring training roster as of Wednesday, Feb. 20, 2013, when this image was taken. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)• One of the real emerging names from that Rule 5 eligible list is Greene. He had a 5.22 ERA in High-A Tampa last year, but he had a 3.38 between High-A and Double-A this season. He was actually better during the second half in Trenton than he’d been in the first half in Tampa. He walked 63 batters last year; only 30 this year. “Big time (improvement),” Newman said. “Command. Look at his walk totals. … He’s got good stuff. He gets it up to 95, 96 and can sink the ball. Now he’s getting it over the plate.”

• Kind of a strange year for Jose Campos, the other pitcher acquired in the Michael Pineda trade. Having missed most of last year with an elbow injury, Campos was routinely limited to three or four innings per start this season. He threw a total of 87 innings (which was actually a career-high) with only 16 walks and a 3.41 ERA. “He did well,” Newman said. “We shut him down and we’re happy. … We just don’t want to jack his innings up too much.” Newman said Campos will likely be on a similar but less-restrictive program next year. “He’ll have more innings next year, but it will be managed (again),” Newman said. “He’s not going to go to 180 innings after what he did this year.”

• Sounds like the conversion of 2012 draftee Rob Refsnyder from college outfielder to professional second baseman is being viewed as a success. Working with closely with infield coach Carlos Mendoza — himself a former Yankees minor league infielder — Refsnyder made 25 errors, but only two in the final month and none in his final 17 games. He also hit .293 with a .413 on-base percentage. “Huge improvement (defensively),” Newman said. “So far it’s been good, and he can hit. And he had a bunch of walks.”

GumbsRefsnyder• Refsnyder’s strong season might have pushed him ahead of Angelo Gumbs in the second base pecking order. Gumbs was hurt again this year (had a concussion), and he hit just .213/.263/.330 between Low-A and High-A. “He’s got some work to do,” Newman said. “He’s a talented kid, but he’s got work to do. He needs to have a good year. … He can run and he can impact the ball. He’s real athletic. Like so many of those (young) guys, it’s plate discipline, using the field, being a quality hitter.”

• Also in need of a good year is center fielder Ravel Santana, whose stock has plummeted in the two years since his terrific U.S. debut. A severe ankle injury and a broken arm have robbed him of development time. “He’s had two really tough injuries,” Newman said. “He’s had a tough go.”

• Since this is apparently the negative section of the minor league notes, it was a brutal year for 2012 second-round pick Austin Aune. Considered pretty raw but gifted — he turned down a quarterback scholarship to TCU — Aune hit just .192/.230/.263 in the Gulf Coast League. He struck out 72 times in 41 games. He did have a double in four of his last five games, but clearly there’s work to be done if Aune is going to live up to that second-round status. “He had a rough year,” Newman said. “He had a tough year. We’ll see how it goes next year. He’s a hard-working, good kid and I’ll leave it at that.”

• Let’s end with something a bit more positive — Instructional league ended this week, and I asked Newman if anyone stood out. He didn’t hesitate. “Bryan Mitchell,” he said. “He’s got a great arm. He’s getting better.” Still just 22, Mitchell is Rule 5 eligible this year, but he’s hardly pitched above Class-A. He had just a 5.12 ERA in Tampa this season, but the Yankees bumped him to Double-A at the end of the year anyway, and he had a 1.93 ERA in three starts at the higher level. The Yankees — and opposing scouts — have talked about this kid’s raw talent for a while. He’s one of those guys who still has a lot to prove, but also has a lot of believers.

Associated Press photos of Heathcott, Mustelier and Greene; headshots of Refsnyder and Gumbs





102 Responses to “Minor league notes: Rule 5, Heathcott, Whitley, Campos, Refsnyder”

  1. Jerkface October 11th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    Of course if the Yanks do win the rights to and sign Tanaka the entire “Hal is Cheap” club will have to disband.

    What? Lol. What if Tanaka is the only move they make? What if they get Tanaka+a bunch of retreads? Doing 1 thing doesn’t erase the cheap moniker. The Yankees could also want to get under 189 and decide Tanaka helps them do it, in which case thats a cheap+smart move.

    And gosh I’d like the Yankees to be the Yankees again, so Godspeed to HAL and his wallet.

  2. Jerkface October 11th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    And the new changes to the posting system could mean the Yankees put in a cheap bid but win anyways because Tanaka wants to sign with them!

  3. 86w183 October 11th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    I don’t know if the posting system changes are official, but my understanding is that the player would choose who to negotiate with from the three highest posting fees.

    I have no doubt the “Hall is Cheap” club will continue no matter what the Yanks off-season looks like. All they have to do is not sign Cano, not sign Abreu or not sign McCann and nothing else will be acknowledged.

    The mere fact that the club exists despite the highest payroll in the history of team sports is proof the “Hal is Cheap” club doesn’t need any actual facts to support their positions.

  4. randy l. October 11th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    “My apologies if this comes across rudely, but yankeefeminista, you and Doreen viewing JR at a minor league game or two doesn’t really add value to your opinion.”


    my apologies in return if my answer comes across rudely, but doreen and yankeefeminista go to a lot of games. yankeefeminista to a crazy amount of minor league games. i have been around a ton of pro baseball people and she’s as good as i’ve seen at judging prospects. she’s that good.

    i’m not making an assessment of murphy from totally an amateur’s perspective. murphy has hit at every level and he hit at triple a last year. he gets better each year. tat tells me a lot about him.
    the more i think about it, i’d do what billy martin did with a young double A catcher way back when billy was the texas manager. he brought up jim sundberg and the rest was history.

    it takes some guts to move a catcher up fast, but with the right kid you can do it. i’d do it and bring murphy right up and catch him for a 100 games. yes, there would be developmental bumps, but if the yankees are going to develop some youngsters they are going to have to start letting them make mistakes in prime time.

  5. randy l. October 11th, 2013 at 12:43 pm


    Did you see this?…..dner-nunez ”


    thanks. looks like a good read on yankee WAR

    i’m trying to come up to speed on WAR and every little bit understanding is that a replacement level team would win about 45 games.

    so in my crude understanding, that seems to mean that al teams have a 45 game base of wins that they are going to get and then they need to add about 45 wins of + WAR to the equation to be a borderline playoff team.

    my feeling last year was that a lot of the players brought up weren’t even replacement level. this article confirms that.

    so how do the yankees for 2014 get this +45 team WAR ?
    i guess the first thing is to see what happens with robbie.

  6. randy l. October 11th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    let’s see if that works better

  7. randy l. October 11th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    using fangraphs,i only get about 17 WAR from a quick count of everyday players

    and only about 19 WAR from the same adding up in my head for pitchers

    so the yankees had about 36 WAR from pitchers and everyday players.

    add that to the base 45 games any team has at replacement level, and you get 81 games won.

    their pythagorean standing was 78 wins and they won 85 actual games, so this checks out with my crude WAR calculation.

    jerkface, if you’re still there, tell me why my WAR thinking is all wrong

    at the very least i’ll learn something :)

  8. Duh Innings II October 11th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Sabathia/Nova/Three from from Scott Baker (year and a mil base since he’s made only 3 starts the past two seasons, all this September), Pineda, Phelps, Warren, Nuno, Marshall, and Banuelos, or re-sign Kuroda for a year and $16M ($1M raise) for Sabathia/Kuroda/Nova/Two from Baker, Pineda, Phelps, Warren, Nuno, Marshall, and Banuelos. Why not re-sign Colon who the As didn’t think was good enough to start Game 5 of the ALDS despite his Cy Young Award candidate season where he’ll finish no lower than third in the CYA voting? If I’m Colon I’m furious at them. 2.65 ERA and 1.17 WHIP and you let a freakin’ rookie start the game? Granted the kid did an admirable job but who knows? Maybe Verlander pitches differently knowing he has a grizzled vet opposing him. You can’t tell me he and the Tigers didn’t sigh with relief when they found out Colon wasn’t starting.

    Save money for Kershaw and/or Scherzer (ideally both) for 2015, and spare me the “they won’t make it to free agency” crap. Kershaw and/or Scherzer may want to test the free agent market and who says the Tigers will open their wallets for Scherzer after they committed a whopping $626.3M to Fielder ($214M), Verlander ($180M), Cabrera ($152.3M), and Sanchez ($80M.) They’re really gonna sign another starting pitcher and a fourth player for well over $100M?

    NO to a possible Kei Igawa II. Tanaka is only better than Darvish if he has a better first two MLB seasons than Darvish and #!#$ his record against AAAA players which 99.9% of Japanese players are or Nomo, Suzuki, Matsui, and Darvish wouldn’t be the only Japanese stars in baseball and Nomo wasn’t all that great (great first two seasons then only two great ones over the next ten.) Darvish is off to a great start but let’s see him for the long haul.

  9. Against All Odds October 11th, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    The mere fact that the club exists despite the highest payroll in the history of team sports is proof the “Hal is Cheap” club doesn’t need any actual facts to support their positions.


    That’s only because they ratcheted up the payroll after the injuries hit the team.
    No one told them to take on Wells for 14 million or whatever it was. The Hal is cheap isn’t just based on sign the latest toy on the market. It goes back to cutting back on the draft and
    IFAs. It’s using farm hands and retreads outside of Mo for the bullpen. The bullpen has worked out very well but the entire team can’t be built this way.

  10. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    YanksPats -

    Not rude, and I’m not insulted. I’m a fan, and I love going to minor league games. You go to enough games, players strike a chord with you or they don’t from a very very very amateur point of view. I will say that when you see the cream of the crop it stands out (seeing Hanley Ramirez more than a few years ago set a standard of excellence for me).

    I don’t pretend to know anything, and I don’t offer a scouting report. Just my impressions.

    Now, yankeefeminista has a real eye and goes to a boatload of games. She strikes me as the rare person who is a prospect devotee generously doused with a realistic overall view and she’s no-nonsense.

  11. 86w183 October 11th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    I’m not saying you can’t criticize HOW and WHERE they have spent money, I’ve done so many times. The “cheap” nonsense annoys me because it is light years from reality.

    This past year has been perhaps the most difficult financially from the standpoint of trying to limit long term commitments while dealing with the injuries to Jeter, Rodriguez, Teixeira and Granderson. That’s more than $ 80 M in 2013 payroll on the shelf and three of them signed beyond this season so you can’t sensibly look for long range solutions to the problems.

    What they do regarding Cano, Kuroda, Granderson, Abreu and Tanaka will speak volumes about what’s ahead.

  12. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Randy -

    I’ve got all three sources up in my brewer. The WAR on Robbie is either 7.6 (baseball-reference), 6.0 (fan graphs) or 5.6 (baseball prospectus) WAR. Ouch. But he was by far (no surprise) the most impactful player on the team. Gardner being second.

    Most of the players were at RP or below.

    I think some things are solved just by virtue of many of those players won’t be back, and with a spot of luck, the need for so many replacements won’t be there next year. But so many players are leaving so there are a lot (too many) of question marks. And losing Cano could hurt (will hurt), depending on how they go about building a team without him.

    Of course I get lost on sites like these, and one of the stats I was interested in was BABIP and also productive outs. I have to be careful, or I will fall into the statistical rabbit hole. Like whenever I go to Googlemaps for directions, I have a tendency to “get lost” in the maps!

  13. luis October 11th, 2013 at 1:27 pm


    Don’t have much time.. But for what is worth, you can count on me for support and help if need be.

  14. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    Ooops – Randy – one of the things I linked about that Pinstripe Bible link was the picture. The visual definitely helps.

  15. pkyankfan69 October 11th, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    “Hal is Cheap” comes directly from letting the new CBA dictate how the Yankees have been run the last several years in preparation for getting under 189 to increase his profit margins. Everything the Dodgers have done since they have been under new ownership has been straight out of the Yankees handbook. Taking on big contracts in salary dumb situations for very good players Hanley/Gonzo/Crawford and taking chances on IFA like Puig and Ryu.

    I for one hope the Dodgers win the World Series this year to remind Hal how to build a baseball team when you don’t have a minor league system flush with ready talent. (And for Donnie of course)

  16. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    Actually I’ve got all three sites up in my browser. Don’t know where brewer came from!

  17. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

    I have a question related to the Luxury Tax and what it funds, or that it funds. If no teams pay any luxury tax, how are these things funded?

    And if it’s true that most of the time it’s the Yankees pumping money into these programs, and it certainly is true that the Yankees pump the most money into these programs, couldn’t you say that the Yankees are funding them? Does any other money go into these programs, aside from the luxury tax money collected?

    So, if the LT funds benefits for players, if no team pays LT, how do the benefits get funded?

    If the LT funds baseball programs in countries without high school baseball, if no team pays LT, would there be any programs in these countries? And if the Yankees have been funding these programs, with very little help from any other teams, and if other teams can benefit by being able to have access to players who are developed in these programs, couldn’t you say that because the Yankees fund this program, it increases the pool of potential baseball players for ALL teams?

    What I’m getting at here is, unless there is other monies being channeled into these funds, I can understand why the Yankees don’t want to be the only team (or one of the few and the only constant contributor) putting money in.

    Does anyone know the answer to this?

    And this makes me understand another aspect of trying to get under that tax, and reduce it going forward.

  18. joeman October 11th, 2013 at 1:35 pm

    trisha – true pinstriped blue October 11th, 2013 at 11:26 am
    “congrats joeman…. my first born daughter gets married in June…. in Manhattan!! I have a kidney on E-Bay in hopes of paying for it.”


    tell me about it..Crazy

  19. Jerkface October 11th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    The future fund receives money from MLB ventures/MLBAM. Player benefits are paid for by every club as part of their luxury taxable payroll and I’m sure MLB/MLBAM as well.

    Considering health care/whatever other player benefits are not a competitive advantage for individual teams I don’t know why the Yankees would be miffed about contributing to it when they are rich and have the benefit of like… always going to the playoffs/winning world series thanks to their ungodly payroll.

    ‘Oh no, 20 million dollars a year goes to keeping MLB strong (necessary for continued Yankee money making) and players happy (necessary for continued Yankee money making)!”

  20. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    I’m not finding an answer to my question about funding the programs if there is no luxury tax paid. But this is what I think. I think that if no teams are paying the LT, they will lower the threshold. So instead of a level of 189 million, they will look at what payroll is for teams, and pick a number which will make the Yankees and maybe one other team fall over that threshold.

    My feeling is the Yankees did this now, because the LT threshold may never be higher, and the lower it is, the more difficult it would be reach.

    I would also like to know how they settled on the threshold number.

  21. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    Jerkface, but most teams do not pay luxury tax. So when you say player benefits are plaid for by every club as part of their luxury taxable payroll, like 30 clubs are not paying into it most years.

    95% of the funding for these programs has come from the NYY.

    And no, those benefits are not a competitive advantage, but, you know, as a concept, it stinks that one team foots the bill for everyone else.

    I think if I find an answer to how the threshold number comes about will help me to figure out where I’m standing on this.

  22. 86w183 October 11th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    They can’t lower the luxury tax threshold without reopening the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

    I believe the half the luxury taxes collected go towards player benefits and then the teams equally kick in the difference. Thus the more luxury taxes paid the less each team owes.

    That’s among the reasons Hal wants to stop paying it… it lines the pockets of other owners just like revenue sharing does.

  23. 86w183 October 11th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    I’ve seen that the estimated cost of player benefits are about $ 11 M per team.

    If $ 30 M is paid in luxury taxes, that knocks $ 1 M off each team’s benefits charge. If ZERO taxes are collected the teams must fully fund the benefits.

  24. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    86w183 -

    Thanks for that information. I really have too much Yankees on the mind. I was making my beds this morning when this LT thought crept in! Crazy. LOL

    I know that the LT threshold is set in the CBA, but I can’t find information on what criteria they use to set it? What factors into it? Is it an arbitrary number, or do they take an average? Or do they just see what the Yankees spend and pick a number under that? ;)

    Is the same for funding the non-high school baseball programs and the Growth Fund? Is each team responsible to kick in some $ amount, and their amount lessened by the amount collected in LT?

  25. Jerkface October 11th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    So when you say player benefits are plaid for by every club as part of their luxury taxable payroll, like 30 clubs are not paying into it most years.

    Benefits are part of payroll that every team has to pay. Its the 10+ million per year each team has to include in their payroll.

  26. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    However, I did find this article, and suggests strongly that despite what we’re hearing from Hal, they are really going to have to say goodbye to the quest for 189:

    Back at the beginning of this blog, it was suggested that I read the book, Diamond Dollars, and I think it was Randy who was reading it at the time. I have to confess that while some of it was interesting, it put me in a coma and I couldn’t finish it, and I couldn’t tell you more than what everyone else knows was the Gennaro’s premise, which is that for some teams, it is financially imperative that they make the playoffs every year, and even went into which level of the playoffs they really ideally needed to attain (at the least).

    I still have the book. Maybe I’ll make another stab at it.

  27. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    Jerkface -


    I’m on a looooong learning curve.

  28. Jerkface October 11th, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    If $ 30 M is paid in luxury taxes, that knocks $ 1 M off each team’s benefits charge. If ZERO taxes are collected the teams must fully fund the benefits.

    This isn’t correct, only the final 25% of any luxury tax paid defrays any actual cost to the clubs.

  29. 86w183 October 11th, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    The $ 189 Luxury Tax number was one the MLPBA and MLB agreed upon in negotiations over the CBA. I’m sure the owners wanted a lower number (not all of them, obviously) and the players wanted a much higher one.

    Jerkface is right, as he always is on these matters. Every team’s payment to the benefits pool… somewhere between $ 10 and $ 12 M IS included in the $ 189 M, so $ 189 M is actually more like $ 178 M in salaries.

  30. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 2:17 pm


    Still, MLBPA wants one number; MLB wants another. But what goes into coming up with the numbers they bring to the table, which are then discussed and compromise reached?

  31. Warning Track Power October 11th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Looking forward to the Mariano/Fox documentary. I know ESPN aired a special last month, but I think this Fox special is a lot more in depth.

  32. Jerkface October 11th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Still, MLBPA wants one number; MLB wants another. But what goes into coming up with the numbers they bring to the table, which are then discussed and compromise reached?

    Considering the steady growth of the limit, I’m assuming they are just having it raised via inflation.

  33. 86w183 October 11th, 2013 at 2:19 pm


    I thought 50 % of the luxury tax $$$ went to benefits. My example was based on the amount that was paid toward the benefit package, not the total taxes paid.

  34. Jerkface October 11th, 2013 at 2:20 pm

    I thought 50 % of the luxury tax $$$ went to benefits. My example was based on the amount that was paid toward the benefit package, not the total taxes paid.

    It is, but just because the luxury tax contributes to the player benefits does not mean that clubs contribute less. There are life time healthcare, pension, disability insurance, trusts, etc.

    (4) 25% of the remaining proceeds collected for each Contract
    Year, with accrued interest, shall be used to defray the Clubs’ funding obligations arising from the Major League Baseball Players
    Benefit Plan Agreements.

  35. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    Still, the question of what happens if no teams are paying luxury tax is valid. The fund is “funded” by each club, so is the LT “extra” money?

    And do the teams each contribute toward that baseball programs and Growth Fund, or are those solely funded by the LT money?

    And has any team ever received a refund of their LT? (I guess their actual bill coming in lower than estimated?)

  36. 86w183 October 11th, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    Gotta call it a day…. good luck tonite Donnie Baseball

    Have a Day all!

  37. Jerkface October 11th, 2013 at 2:31 pm

    The growth fund takes voluntary contributions, but other than that is only funded by the luxury tax. I think its likely that MLB/MLBAM would make contributions to it.

  38. Jerkface October 11th, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    Teams receive refunds if stuff happens (like options/whatever)

  39. astrocityfan October 11th, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    dont know if anyone else posted this. but here it is.

    Yankees Expected To Aggressively Pursue Tanaka
    By Steve Adams [October 11 at 9:00am CST]
    Masahiro Tanaka’s video-game numbers for NPB’s Rakuten Golden Eagles this season have turned quite a few heads in the United States, and according to George A. King III of the New York Post, the Yankees “are going to be serious players” for the Japanese ace.

    King spoke with several executives who guessed that the posting fee for Tanaka could go as high as $60MM, but the Yankees aren’t overly concerned about that number given the fact that the posting fee wouldn’t count against their stated desire to get underneath baseball’s $189MM luxury tax threshhold. The expected $50-60MM contract that would go along with such a posting fee — contract totals are usually in the same ballpark as the posting fee — certainly would.

    King writes that assistant GM Billy Eppler and pro scout/former Mariners manager Don Wakamatsu have both watched Tanaka extensively this season. While the common consensus has been that Tanaka is a lesser prospect than Yu Darvish was prior to joining the Majors, King spoke to a scout who prefers Tanaka to Darvish:

    “He is better than Darvish because he is a strike thrower,” the scout said. “Overall, Darvish’s stuff might be a little bit better, but this guy knows how to pitch. He is like Kuroda, he has a lot of guts. He throws four pitches but when it gets to [stone]-cutting time, it’s fastball and splitter.”

    Tanaka, who doesn’t turn 25 years old until Nov. 1, is 22-0 for the Golden Eagles with a 1.23 ERA. His strikeout rate has dipped slightly from previous seasons, though he still manages nearly eight whiffs per nine innings and has averaged just over one walk per nine innings as well. His splitter is such a wipeout pitch that Baseball America’s Ben Badler called it perhaps the best splitter in the world back in late August.

    The Yankees will have competition for Tanaka — one talent evaluator told King that the Red Sox, Dodgers and Rangers will be in the mix as well — but they also have a clear need for starting pitching with Andy Pettitte’s retirement and Hiroki Kuroda’s uncertain future. New York also saw CC Sabathia decline in 2013 and is unsure what, if anything, they can receive in the future from Michael Pineda.

  40. Shame Spencer October 11th, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Great conversation in here right now…

    $60 million posting fee for Tanaka was a lot more than I was expecting.. but whatever he costs they should pay it. If it bites them in the ass it serves them right for balking on Darvish (who, btw, was also a need considering Andy had yet to return at that point and Hughes/Nova/Pineda were your back three). It’s too bad no one realized Pineda’s arm was falling off sooner…

  41. Jerkface October 11th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    It’d be nice if Tanaka was better than Darvish and the Yankees got him. I don’t know how he will be. Walk rate isnt everything. I’d be happy if he was just like a younger Kuroda-type. Solid and dependable 3 ERA etc.

  42. astrocityfan October 11th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    The arguement for Tanaka is one we’vebeen making for the last few years. Lower aav contract to a young international player give the more flexibility going forward and a potential star. I’d like to see them also make a run at abreu. I dont care who is on the team, you can always find a spot for that kind of talent.

  43. sammiejohnson October 11th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    86w183 October 11th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    I don’t know if the posting system changes are official, but my understanding is that the player would choose who to negotiate with from the three highest posting fees.


    This was my understanding as well, but I wasn’t aware that the changes were being made official for this off season. Does anyone know if the changes are in fact in place for this winter?

  44. YanksPats October 11th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

    So, compound one mistake with another mistake. Certainly not an excellent way to run a business or baseball team, Shame Spencer.

    There was nothing rude about either of your posts, randy l & Doreen. In my earlier post, what I should have said was, your viewing of mL games and being around baseball people does not make one qualified.

    I respect both of your opinions. I believe it’s possible, but unlikely, that JR can be a successful ML My opinion on JR is no more qualified than either of yours, or the opinion of yankeefeminista.

    There are a number of other factors why going to games as an amateur, like yankeefeminista, does not add any extra value to her opinions.


    As Yankees fans, we all would like to see our prospects develop into successful ML.

    Additionallly, some Yankees fans are obsessed with our prospects and their development.

  45. Doreen October 11th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    YanksPats -

    Bias, indeed! LOL

    Actually, what’s been interesting to me is, I go to the games in Trenton hoping to see a few of the up-and-comers (hopefully), but so many times, I find myself looking at my scorecard to see who the guy is on the OTHER team that is having such a good game.

    I’ve never seen yankeefeminista go over the top so far on anyone, but yeah, we all want our own players to succeed.

    Another thing that is interesting to me is that now that the AA team has been in Trenton for several years, and seeing just how rare it is that someone actually climbs the ladder all the way to the top, kind of puts the games into a perspective for me. The hope is still there that you may see someone who is actually going to put together a nice ML career, but at bottom, I simply enjoy watching the AA games.

  46. champ809 October 11th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    The Hal is cheap argument is 1 of the dumbest, ill informed commentary going around sports today.

    He’s authorized over a billion dollars is salary over the last 5 seasons no other owner in any sport in this country can make that claim.

    Hal is a smart businessman and as such is taking the most prudent approach for the long term health of the franchise. If the Yanks don’t get under the $189MM threshold it has a major impact on their ability to compete at the upper tier if the FA market in upcoming years. So if say a Clayton Kershaw were to become available in 2015 the $240mm contract would actually cost the Yanks over $300MM real dollars including the tax. NO businessman worth his salt would just shrug that off.

    If ARod’s suspension is upheld and they are able to save at least his 2014 salary then they will re-sign Cano, maybe sign Tanaka and give some of the kids a real shot. Re-tooling and rebuilding is the true way to the next dynasty.

    BTW those who say that the Yanks farm is a mess or barren of talent don’t know jack about neither the Yanks system nor prospects in general

  47. randy l. October 11th, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    “I respect both of your opinions. I believe it’s possible, but unlikely, that JR can be a successful ML My opinion on JR is no more qualified than either of yours, or the opinion of yankeefeminista.”


    wow, that’s mouthful of ideas in a few words :)

    let me break it int a few parts i can address.

    you say you think it’s unlikely that JR Murphy will be a successful major leaguer.
    what are your reasons for this opinion?

    you say that your opinion of JR is no more qualified than mine .
    what do you think qualifies a baseball opinion?

    i would say there are lots of way to know things about the game.

    one is experience playing
    one is watching a lot on tv and online
    one is reading a lot
    one is being adept sabermetrically
    one is going to games and seeing things up close

    the reason that i’m saying i’m qualified to have an opinion that may be right or wrong is that i know my way somewhat around a pro bullpen. when i look at jr murphy i’m looking at him from inside that bullpen experience.
    no maybe i make a wrong assessment, but there will be some nuances to what i’m looking at that i wouldn’t have if i hadn’t had the bullpen experience.

    now that said, the beauty of baseball is that if JR murphy’s success is reduced to thumbs up or thumbs down.i agree someone without the same experience i’ve had might be right and me wrong.

    it’s why as nick in sf , used to point out, two mlb managers who both have mlb playing experience come to an opposing conclusion.

    when it’s a 50/50 thing on being right or wrong, there’s only two things that are going to happen.
    the amateur has pretty much the same chance on any one thing in question.

    play it out over a thousand times that are 50/50 and i’m pretty sure the professional will win out.
    ( this kind of 50/50 isn’t like the coin flip. there’s inside knowledge involved)
    i’m not a professional, but i’ve been inside the ropes and been paid to do amateur sneaking in the back door really.

    so when i say something about JR murphy, it’s not without some knowledge based on experience.
    that said, i could be dead wrong about murphy. i don’t think so though. i have a really good feeling about the kid.

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